Vivian Girls @ Empty Bottle 5/6/09

Does anyone have an audio recording of this show?

the whole show is on YouTube. Can't vouch for the quality...

dammit.

soundboard^^^

even looks like Darger artwork!

snark snark snark snark

http://br.geocities.com/josespj/imagens/snorks.jpg

why do people hate this band again? (asking for real, i haven't really heard them)

they're not that good.

but out of all the not that good bands ... is there something especially not good?

Vivian Girls are a great band. I think it's def sexist that bullshit like Wavves gets a pass and the V-Girls have to put up with so much internet nonsense.

hahah wavves are even more embarassing than the vivian girls, get real dude

Wavves seems next on the chopping block! I think both bands are decent, but got hyped beyond their value. In no way better than Cheap Time or Thee Oh Sees or other more punky bands doing the wall-of-echo thing.

btw my dislike of the vivian girls has a little bit to do with knowing them in passing in real life and finding their personalities somewhat grating.
i still will admit to liking the first single, but in my honest opinion their LP is really boring, "Wild Eyes" aside.

confused @ wavves "getting a pass"

wavves is one of those ipod guys right?

Wavves doesn't have people on Brooklyn Vegan posting bullshit like this

Vivian Girl,

Your band is getting hype not because it has talent--the music is just not great--but because, in large part, two of the members are very good looking. Your recent surge in popularity owes something to Brooklyn Vegan too. Your complaint reminds me of the phrase "biting the hand that feeds you." I understand that you are now in a position where what you say and do is being noticed--although in the small, small world of the underground music scene in New York--but asking a music blog to discontinue its coverage of your band is immature, short sighted, and, quite frankly, fascist. To conclude, enjoy the hype while it lasts--and it won't last long--and enjoy your youthful good looks and fancy haircuts while they last too.

or

i'd still hit it even though she's a bitch

uh, so what you're trying to say is, indie-pop/diy punk scene in being sexist shocker?

i like to imagine that Brooklyn Vegan is actually just one person's elaborate piece of ongoing performance art. Alas, it is not so.

LOL im home sick with vivian girls and wavves records next to me in my listening pile

xpost to ian

yes, i said that quite explicitly upthread actually

i dont understand either backlash

the backlash cycle is kind of incredibly fast these days! i haven't heard either of these bands yet ...

maybe the solution is to not read brooklyn vegan

the solution to what?

the backlash cycle is kind of incredibly fast these days! i haven't heard either of these bands yet ...

That's true, but it also means the counter-backlash (where the band is cool again) comes around faster, too. After that, all overheated reactions -- positive and negative -- tend to settle down.

i dont understand either backlash

yeah me neither, I fuck w/ all this stuff

wavves lp wasn't as good as I hoped but So Bored off the new one (which I haven't heard yet) is sweeet

the solution to a lot of things, "tylerw"

vivian girls are better than wavves but i mean dying instantly is probably a little better than burning to death

i mean, its no excuse, but the VG sexist backlash is at least understandable -- the wavves one is really weird. theyre not my favorite or anything, but it seems weird for everyone to get so upset (primarily on termbo i guess, which may explain something) about a band because theyre overhyped (but UH theyre NOT! like under 5000 people have ever heard them (him) i bet!) or something. im calling anti-california-ism. and thats not cool.

whoa kevin k zingin!

i don't mind either vivian girls or wavves, but they were pretty much listen-once-and-shrug experiences for me. i don't understand either one getting more attention than times new viking or eat skull.

xp tipsy: I think all four bands you mention are in the same league ... I think they're ok, but not incredible.

The Wavves album has its moments but when I saw them/him live the main dude seemed a bit like a minor character in a Mike Judge cartoon

FWIW, I know that Wavves first European tour was booked before he'd ever played a single show. Stuff like that creates heavy backlash vibes.

I think all four bands you mention are in the same league

no accountin' fr taste. tnv are one of my favorite bands of the last few years. eat skull i really like. vivian girls and wavves seem just ok.

i actually didnt dislike the viv girls record (if you can even call a 20 minute thing which is essentially a demo tape a "record") the first time i heard it, and dug "where do you run to". i liked it less and less the next couple times i listened though, and never really wanted to go back to it. wavves give me this really negative visceral reaction that i cant really describe but that i've only ever felt when listening to one other band in the last few years - fleet foxes

The Oh Sees >>> Vivian Girls >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Times New Viking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wavves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eat Skull

important and famous bands all, and worthy of intense scrutiny

fuck you dude, eat skull's first album is the blueprint for all of this shit^

new one is not very good at all though, unfortunately

Times New Viking have a lot of great songs, i think that they are way more dynamic than VG. XP I'm not buying into Eat Skull being the progenitors of this at all. TNV had two albums out on Siltbreeze before the first Eat Skull came out.

xp k3vin: Uh, The Oh Sees have been around longer than Eat Skull ...

i didnt say they were pioneers, jsut that they did it best

xp ok "blueprint" is a misleading word sowwwwwy

xp k3vin: yeah blueprint implies that they did it first.

wanna post that again so it sinks in?

trip maker: i guess i understand that, but like arent we past that? arent bedroom protools albums ok? does every indie/DIY/punk star need reatard-style long-slow-climb trajectory? these qs arent particularly for you btw

i love all these bands.

LOL @ eat skull having the blueprint. listen to thomas jeff slave apts or the yips, and all this new siltbreeze stuff (while awesome) all of a sudden has close recent relatives

xp k3vin: if you insist ...xp k3vin: yeah blueprint implies that they did it first.

keep on postin' ilx

"listen to TJSA" is good advice in any context imo

but like arent we past that? does every indie/DIY/punk star need reatard-style long-slow-climb trajectory?

I'd really like to comment on this but I am having trouble collecting my thoughts and it's time to clock out. Another time maybe.

okay well, see, part of my distaste for a lot of this stuff is that Siltbreeze has gone from being a label of stunning quality & consistency, one of my favorite labels EVAR, in fact, to a label who are putting out too much crap way too fast, and a lot of it is boring and should have remained on labels like SFTRI or In The Red.

This has nothing to do with vivian girls of course, more my own fetishization of a label that had released its best records before I was out of high school.

that's tangential and not helpful to the discussion at large, sorry.

also yeah, eat skull the blueprint? maybe the first pavement EPs or something...

yeah thats what i was thinking too but with scuzzier vox

heres why i think siltbreeze still rules:

1. i love all these shitgaze bands.
2. US girls LP is so so good
3. upcoming blues control LP!

4. my parents are from philadelphia

- I like Vivian Girls and Wavves both; lately I think maybe the edge Wavves has in that pair is that his stuff manages to contain more of a specific vibe or setting or whatever, seems more to be coming from someplace in particular

- Ian is the most credible disliker of Vivian Girls I have yet seen, because he digs what's probably their best assembled song, and it's true that a lot of the other stuff doesn't live up to that, so I know he's being 100% accurately discerning about this (although I do think "Tell the World" is up there with "Wild Eyes")

- I think ... I think it's interesting that the ethos of old DIY-sounding indie stuff was really good for gender dynamics, and drastically upped the number of women involved in such bands, and in ways that were pretty egalitarian and didn't much fuss with gender as an issue, and now ... these days I think there is a dynamic among some people where guys who don't play well or seem to have a ton of technical knowledge are seen as like knowingly "punk" about it, whereas girls doing the same sort of thing get this extra scrutiny, as if there's this additional danger that they're actually just "bad" and are fooling everyone into thinking they're just DIY/indie and cool; I think Vivian Girls have gotten a bit more of that than some comparable male acts have, yeah, in addition to the usual thing where people who don't like them will choose kinda gendered insults to express that. But I guess also part of why that's followed them has been that it actually turns out to be a fertile and interesting question, at times (just as fertile/interesting with comparable male bands, and it still gets argued there, but just in a different way, one that assumes the dudes in question know the answer to that question, instead of kinda pretending like girls in question are somehow lost or don't know what they're doing on this front)

half the vivian girls were playing screeching weasel covers at punk houses like two years ago, and i'm not sure if this means i like them more or less. certainly it's great that they are/were involved in the local "punk" scene, but oddly it seems like they've distanced themselves from that and alienated a certain number of people here in brooklyn (true confession: i am friends with their ex-boyfriends and my buddy jamie (RIP) used to live with the original drummer and apparently she was a control freak lol "DON'T USE MY PANS.")

xpost - that's a really bad and long-winded way of putting that:

basically there was all this old indiepop where it was like "oh, nobody involved is super-skilled or polished, we're all just happy to be making this sound," and those bands included lots of women in all sorts of roles ... now in a more hyped environment some of that same sound/ethos is getting attention again and suddenly you hear a lot of "hey, those girls can't play, I think they're trying to trick us!"

which is a weird environmental shift, but I guess the former of those things is the advantage of just putting out 7-inches and having barely anyone know who you were, leave alone mock your interview statements on blogs every week

xpost - I've long been fascinated by the whole thing where they couldn't work it with their drummer so ... a band in the exact same social circle took her on? haha i mean stilts have pans, too

shitvian girls

shiites

ok that one didn't translate very well

(wavves)

"also yeah, eat skull the blueprint? maybe the first pavement EPs or something..."

goddammit, i meant (and may have explicitly said upthread) that this was in ref to this new wave of bands of the last few years. and again, "blueprint" was misused, but it wasnt hard to see what i was getting at

haha we saw what u were getting at -- we just all disagreed! eat skull is very good, but psychedelic horseshit and TNV had multiple siltbreeze releases before eat skull's first single, which (to my ears) laid out more of a template for the SHITGAZE style (coined by matt horseshit)

lol i was gonna say none of those bands are a blueprint for anything! but I like pretty much all the bands on this thread even the lame ones I go bed now

lol

fuck a blueprint, sick to death is the best shitgaze record i've heard in the past few years

I've heard almost zero about Eat Skull's new one.

fuck a blueprint, sick to death is the best shitgaze record i've heard in the past few years

― k3vin k., Friday, May 8, 2009 11:29 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think shitgaze reached its true peak in 1854

LOL ok not pickin on u i love that rec too

all good

I truthfully haven't heard their full albums, but I was at the empty bottle show and it was pretty fantastic.

The two songs they mentioned that they had just recorded were two of my favorites, so maybe their next album will be something that I like alot.

kevin, if you think that all of these bands should aspire to sound MORE LIKE EAT SKULL, then I just think we have different tastes. (obv.)

i like all the VG songs a lot -- im interested in hearing frankie's LP too, which i hear is coming out on a MS records sub-label? "where do you run?" was one of my favorite songs of last year, although i think her solo version on that yeti comp was not as good as the full-band version.

the live at WFMU recording is really good, the LP is good, i like the singles -- theyre not my favorite newish band, but im psyched to hear what they do next.

of the bands mentioned here i think vivian girls are least well served by their sound/production/noise/whatever. they don't do anything interesting with the fuzz, and to some extent i think their songs might get over better with more of a lo-fi pop presentation than a lo-fi garbage-can punk thing. like, the songs might be more charming if they were more charming. (thinking aislers set here, tho aislers set has lots better songs imo.) anyway, i mean, i think tnv really work the noise/fuzz/distant-shore thing well, the production is a 4th instrument in the room and kind of the most important one. whereas vivian girls just have a more generic scuzzy-loud setting.

(also i don't remember if it was nabisco or someone else who said on another thread that they weren't sure if people liked vivian girls because they hadn't heard black tambourine, or because they had. but i thought that was a good line.)

might have been me, i dunno..

the songs might be more charming if they were more charming. (thinking aislers set here, tho aislers set has lots better songs imo.)

otm

i mentioned this on my twitter, but fuck Yo La Tengo for bandwagon jumping on this trend with their pathetic new album.

Yo La Tengo have been doing lo-fi garage covers for a long time (assuming you're talking about the Condo Fucks thing?)

(and besides that, I seriously doubt Wavvves etc. is really even on their radar! "Bandwagon jumping"?!)

I dunno, every Yo La Tengo song I've ever heard has been boring, limp, flaccid indie rock that sucks royally. And now all of a sudden they had a shit-fi record. That thing goes way beyond "lo-fi garage covers." And wtf they're on the same label as Times New Viking, so I don't think it's totally off their radar.

u crazy about yo la tengo first off, but i really like that condo fucks record. it's nice for a change to have a shit-fi record on which the musicians can play their instruments and the singer is halfway competent. and their kinks cover is one of the best i've ever heard

I dunno, every Yo La Tengo song I've ever heard has been boring, limp, flaccid indie rock that sucks royally

How many songs have you heard?

yeah, sorry Whiney, but yer pretty off-base with the Yo La Tengo haterade. TNV opened for them, they're probably vaguely aware of this stuff (WFMU listeners) and maybe even like some of it. I don't think that had anything to do with the Condo Fucks record, which was recorded as more a homage to the garage rock revival action of the early nineties--A Bones and shit.

and as Shannon was quick to point out, YLT are the world's greatest "valiant effort" cover band--search their FMU marathon sets.

i don't care. they're NRBQ for people in Threadless t-shirts, fuck that band. ok, i'm done now.

Let us know if you get any enlightening tweets back about this btw

Whiney your case would be better if you explained what's wrong w/NRBQ

I dunno, every Yo La Tengo song I've ever heard has been boring, limp, flaccid indie rock that sucks royally

OTM.

i've only heard a few vivian girls songs, one almost sounded like look blue go purple but it was bloodless. they don't seem all that excitable really and if you can't play, you can't sing, maybe you should make up for it with the performance? instead of being drab. i dunno. they do have one up on slow down tallahassee because at least they don't sound like the chipmunks.

OTM.

How many songs have you heard?

Every YLT song?! Jeez, search one "Mushroom Cloud of Hiss" (to start with).

Like, here's one:

i started this a long time ago--

does anything interesting ever happen in a yo la tengo song?

i've heard everything up to 'i can hear the heart...', perhaps they've improved since then but i doubt that.

I hate this band even more now, thanks Josh

hope these dumb sluts all get raped to death

ps. http://i40.tinypic.com/j7dmvt.jpg katy

im pretty sure whiney's just trolling at this point

What is so great about them is that while they can play many different styles like noisy drone rock, almost country ballads, pop songs, singer/songwriter stuff, electronica etc. they still have their significant sound which can be identified immediately.

― alex in mainhattan, Friday, May 3, 2002 12:00 AM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^this seems pretty nailed-on for me - I mean someone could think they suck at all of them, no biggie, but if you were gonna call everything under that umbrella indie rock it doesn't really say anything except suggest it's basically redundant as a pejorative term

the thing with vivian girls and wavves-i've found-is that like, okay: any band that gets any amount of hype will invariably be dissed backlash blablbla. with these two bands, though, it seems to me that what alot of people are saying is "they're just okay, what's the big deal?" rather than "they suck/they're awful." but whatever, right? not every band i listen to is on the most innovative mind-blowing shit. it's nice to like some bands that are just moderately good, and to me that's what wavves and the vivian girls are.

mixtapes for friends would be so much shorter without these sorts bands. Some of the greatest artists ever are bland! Also, Condo Fucks are a shitgaze band that have been around since the beginning of shitgaze.

shit-fi, shitcore, shitgaze---wow, these descriptions really make these bands sound appealing! I smell crossover...or is that just something I stepped in?

why, back in my day...(gnawing on tooth-pick) we jes called it innehrock...

fuck you dude, eat skull's first album is the blueprint for all of this shit^

yeah cuz nobody's ever recorded lofi syd barrett-esque punk pop tunes before

you guys act like you've never heard a tall dwarfs record before

it seems to me that what alot of people are saying is "they're just okay, what's the big deal?"

Pretty much. They're "B-" bands in a time of rampant grade inflation.

you guys act like you've never heard a tall dwarfs record before

fucking realest of the real talk award for '09, 100% sincere

They're "B-" bands in a time of rampant grade inflation.

Let us speak of this "golden era" of long ago, when grades were assigned equal to true levels of artistic achievement.

Sorry; shouldn't have been snarky. It's just that, the older I get, the less I buy into the notion that there was some long-lost era when the big-bands or the buzz-bands were really top-notch, and now things are vastly inferior. Mostly these notions sound like nostalgia to me.

xp Daniel: I agree with you in that there was never a "long-lost era when the big-bands or the buzz-bands were really top-notch" I just think, going back to the grading metaphor, the "just okay" B- to D+ area of the curve has grown immensely in the past 10 years, partially due to there being a lot more bands that attract some public attention because of technological changes and removal of barriers to entry.

fuck you dude, eat skull's first album is the blueprint for all of this shit^

yeah cuz nobody's ever recorded lofi syd barrett-esque punk pop tunes before

you guys act like you've never heard a tall dwarfs record before

― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Saturday, May 9, 2009 6:25 PM (3 hours ago)

welcome to the conversation, edward iii. jump in anytime you like

the thing with vivian girls and wavves-i've found-is that like, okay: any band that gets any amount of hype will invariably be dissed backlash blablbla. with these two bands, though, it seems to me that what alot of people are saying is "they're just okay, what's the big deal?" rather than "they suck/they're awful." but whatever, right? not every band i listen to is on the most innovative mind-blowing shit. it's nice to like some bands that are just moderately good, and to me that's what wavves and the vivian girls are.

― samosa gibreel, Saturday, May 9, 2009 3:31 PM (6 hours ago)

can i just refute this by saying that there are a lot of people who think wavves and viv girls are awful? i'm one of them

if u like shitgaze you'll LUV turdcore

lol

is turdcore like bone awl? cuz I already luv dat shit

http://www.stonerrock.com/store/images/covers/ath-3467.jpg

Like it or not, Iowa, for better or worse, toilet rock is here to stay, mark my words

poo wave of new wave

haven't fucked with the vivian girls record but I had a really good time getting drunk at their show recently. that's good enough for me. I really can't see the comparisons to eat skull, etc (who also did an amazing drunken sweaty show with the hospitals a month or so back). they remind me of all the early 90s K bands I was so into. tiger trap maybe? That was a show I loved the shit out of when they played with Lois in houston tx to a crowd of about 4 people.
i admit hating on shit's fun 'tho - I hate me some kobe bryant and derek fisher but that's a post for another board altogether - sorry...

am i silly or wrong to be a bit put off by the henry darger reference?

i know they are just "hailing" an artist they like and in the same breath hailing other folks who are in the know, but... well... the vivian girls (the characters) are one of the more disturbing parts of a very disturbing mythopoetics.

i suppose it would seem in line with all those 3rd-rate punk bands naming themselves after serial killers etc. but, well, i don't think this band is coming from the same place. it seems more like a hip reference than some kind of calculated affrontery, and ... i dunno... just seems misplaced i suppose.

it's a shitty name

Vivian Girls are a great band. I think it's def sexist that bullshit like Wavves gets a pass and the V-Girls have to put up with so much internet nonsense.

― gui lovato (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, May 9, 2009 7:04 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so in other words you wouldn't put the vivian girls under wavves.

drown them in wavves maybe

What would estela do without you, k3vin k

hahaha

The level of outraged loathing on this thread reminds me very strongly of the rants about Cocorosie you saw here a couple of years back. It's actually pretty disturbing. The bands themselves have little in common, but it seems to be enough for some.

im pretty sure ppl have hated bands in between cocorosie and wavves

don't ya just love it when you make a gleeful little double entendre then some american comes along precisely 1 minute later to explain it

― sorry for british (country matters), Thursday, 7 May 2009 16:33 (3 days ago) Bookmark

What would estela do without you, k3vin k

― display mane (DJ Mencap), Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:46 AM (1 hour ago)

haha yeah i thought i was all clever at first but then realized estela had already beaten me to the punch but was just way more clever about it :(

I hate me some kobe bryant and derek fisher but that's a post for another board altogether - sorry...

― sknybrg, Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:09 PM

09 playoffs thread

can i just refute this by saying that there are a lot of people who think wavves and viv girls are awful? i'm one of them

really? awful as in you are pained to listen to them? you think they're very bad at doing what they do? both bands are so harmless and simple i can only imagine people taking so much offence to them as just a knee-jerk response to hype they've received. i do think people like you are in the way small minority though.

i'd probably argue that 98% of people in the world would dislike wavves or vivian girls if you had them listen to it, actually

i'm on this lex trip when i listen to wavves though, it really gives me this shitty feeling and i can't do it. viv girls i'm more like 'eh'

i'm on this lex trip when i listen to wavves though

For full effect, apply this feeling to all indie rock. And mainstream rock. And all rock.

(kidding, kidding)

i'd probably argue that 98% of people in the world would dislike wavves or vivian girls if you had them listen to it, actually

yeah that's especially true of wavves. but it says more about 98% of people in the world than it does about wavves.

i'd probably argue that 98% of people in the world would dislike wavves or vivian girls if you had them listen to it, actually

what does this even mean?

gonna let you think about that

just pointing out that this is like the 500th time someone has run out the ol' "well if you take into account the entire population of earth" argument on ilm and it continues to be neither illuminating or helpful.

The level of outraged loathing on this thread reminds me very strongly of the rants about Cocorosie you saw here a couple of years back. It's actually pretty disturbing. The bands themselves have little in common, but it seems to be enough for some.

otm

still like CocoRosie loads more than the Vivian Girls tho

cocoracist

that's what members of the fan club call themselves

guys the vivian girls are now officially 'influential.' They are called "Hot Box." They are from Boston. They suck mightily. ...>:[

PSYCHEDELIC HORSESHIT
Shitgaze Anthems
(Woodsist)

^^^^^ lol @ album title

wait, is it a pun i dont get?

i was very excited when i saw it in aquarius the other day, but i had already ordered it online. psychedelic horseshit really holds my attention so well.

i could never get into the LP on Siltbreeze :\

that record has a few clunkers

Vivian Girls' new single has seriously diminished any sense I had that their future work would be very good

SXSW Leftovers: Talkin' [Expletive] With Psychedelic Horse[expletive]
Psychedelic Horse[expletive], taking no prisoners.

As I was talking to Psychedelic Horse[expletive] dude Matt Whitehurst on Thursday night outside of Soho before his band's set at Siltbreeze's SXSW showcase, I knew he was going off. But listening back to it as I was transcribing left me slackjawed and somewhat conflicted. His band plays fractured, damaged songs with snotty vocals and barbed hooks that, on record, sound like they were recorded using equipment that no longer exists. Much to his chagrin, that's a pretty popular sound these days. Bands such as Wavves, Vivian Girls, No Age and Times New Viking have become superstars on the indie scene by adhering a similar approach. This doesn't make Whitehurst too happy.

Without any prompting he was immediately hurling every insult in the book at those bands. (Except for Times New Viking, his friends. He tried to explain that one during the interview, judge for yourself whether his reasoning is sound.) Was he just putting on a show? The skeptic in me thought maybe it was all a work and it's all part of a plan to get some attention. Or maybe he truly is this angry at bands that he feels have appropriated something near and dear to him, who have sanitized it, stylized it, cashed in on it, and are now representing him as leaders of a lo-fi movement.

You could say that Whitehurst exists in a small bubble, one that he takes very seriously and is very protective of. He compares message board Terminal Boredom to Rolling Stone, calls Matador a major label and considers a band like Wavves - currently touring couple hundred seat venues - a big star. It's sort of a matter of semantics, but the point is that you start to realize that it really isn't a front, and he's just a guy who feels his scene and sound have been taken over by poseurs and he can't stand it and doesn't care who knows.

Some of the anger may be misplaced, but the you can't deny his passion. Usually if you hate something so much, it means you love something just as much, and there's something to be said about strong feelings either way and avoiding that boring middle. And he doesn't just talk the talk, he walks the walk. The last time I saw his band play before SXSW was for a dozen people in a musty living room at 12:30 a.m. on a Tuesday night. In the following interview Whitehurst comes off as a bit insecure, a bit shrewd, a bit childish, plenty lewd, a bit inconsistent, very often on-point and always, enormously entertaining and quotable. Good luck figuring out what every [expletive] is. He used some doozies.

Do you like coming down here and playing 13 shows in four days?
Yes. I just like playing with different people. It's always the same crowds when we go on tour and [expletive]. They wanna come out and see Vivian Girls or Wavves or some [expletive]. And we get up there and freak 'em out. So down here it's kind of nice. People don't know what to expect.

Vivian Girls, Wavves - why is everyone in a lo-fi band now?
I have no idea. I don't know. It became in vogue sometime in the last year due to a few figureheads talking a bunch of [expletive] on Terminal Boredom. And now it's exploded into this thing there where Wavves is getting $30,000 to [expletive] crank out this [expletive] generic [expletive].

There's a lot of one-person things now.
Right it's one person with GarageBand and a few chords and like -- Wavves to me sounds like [expletive] TV on the Radio. That band sucks [expletive]. It's one of the worst bands to get popular in a long time. They [expletive] trump No Age because I think it's worse than No Age. No Age is just like, [expletive]. It's really [expletive].

But you're playing at least one show with Wavves down here.
Three of them, yeah.

So how do you reconcile that?
We made "Wavves Suxx" t-shirts with it spelled S-U-X-X. We got tons of people taking pictures with us in those. People are all into it. And actually Wavves came up to our drummer and our drummer had no idea it was Wavves. And Wavves took like six pictures with Rich with the "Wavves Suxx" t-shirt on. So, you know, that little [expletive]'s probably into it or something. And is probably like, Oh, it's like hip-hop, man!

People could know nothing about you but your band name and it would be pretty easy to figure out you're probably not going to be indie rock superstars.
I guess not. We'd love to be but I guess we picked the wrong name for that. We should have named ourselves Wavves. We'd be rich now if we would've. We're better than Wavves, he does the same kind of [expletive].

(Much, much more can't miss stuff after the jump.)

Your band is getting bigger in terms of members but the trend seems to be bands with one or two people.
Bigger and cleaner. Sounding like [expletive] is not ... that's the biggest [expletive] [expletive] crutch I've ever heard. Don't tell me lo-fi, and say, It's a choice and it sounds so much better. Yeah, it sounds cool, but it's only cool when you first start making music and there's the discovery involved in it. And like, distortion is a cool thing. But just because distortion is a cool thing doesn't mean you just record all [expletive] and pawn that off as being good music and you being a valid artist.

[Interruption for when an underage girl comes up to Matt and asks him to buy cigarettes for her.]

What? [She repeats.] Yeah, after this interview. (Ed. Note: Never happened, alas.)

Anyway, so if something sound's real, it sounds real -
Manufactured lo-fi! That's not cool. People can say "Magic Flowers Droned" is manufactured lo-fi if they want but I [expletive] mixed that record as clear as I could [expletive] get it. It was recorded [expletive] really [expletive] and was [expletive] - I was young and we just started the band two years before. I'm not Rick Rubin. But I wanna be. I want it to [expletive] sound like a [expletive] tight-[expletive] hip-hop production. We have enough [expletive] going on to where clean production is just gonna make it sound better, y'know?

If you have to [expletive] keep recording lo-fi then you're a [expletive]. Straight up [expletive] [expletive]. You know? You're hiding. You're hiding behind static. Which is cool, people have [expletive] done it for decades. But it's like a [expletive] easy way out. And you're not gonna [expletive] progress or grow into any kind of good band if you just keep on making lo-fi music.

If you write good songs you don't need lo-fi production, man. Good songs, no matter what kind of production are gonna be [expletive] good. So it's about the songs, not about the production. Production just weeds out the [expletive] idiots. It's like, people that are [expletive] [expletive] and know nothing about music, the first thing they notice is the production values. It's like, Oh, it doesn't [expletive] sound like Rihanna. And it's like, I want to sound like Rihanna because those people will listen to us and take it for what it is. Not like, Oh, this is static-y, it's like the Velvet Underground. And it's like, [Expletive] you. The Velvet Underground, that [expletive] is clean. That is clean as [expletive]! "White Light/White Heat" is a [expletive] album of beautiful, clean static. Clean [expletive] static. That's how it sounded in the room. I don't know, man. I [expletive] hate the new lo-fi [expletive]. Wavves, Nodzzz, Vivian Girls. That [expletive] sucks. It's [expletive] poseur [expletive].

Do you think it'll be fleeting, or will these bands maintain fans?
I don't know. Honestly I hope so because somehow if those [expletive] [expletive]-[expletive] bands, by default, are like the leaders of the lo-fi movement now and we're somehow under that umbrella because we made a lo-fi album. So it's like, if those bands [expletive] don't do good, I'm going to hunt them down and kill them because that's the end of us. They're [expletive] representing a bunch of good bands. Somehow the [expletive] bands get to represent the good bands. But it's like that all through [expletive] history. Psychedelic Horse[expletive] - I think we're better than Wavves, for sure.

I don't know, it pisses me off, kind of. We work hard and I feel like we're pretty sincere about what we do. And to have a bunch of [expletive] no-talent clowns come in and just take the easiest way out and [expletive] rip off - not necessarily even - I don't think that any of those bands are ripping off Psychedelic Horse[expletive]. That's like the furthest thing. I wouldn't pay them a compliment like that. I don't even think Psychedelic Horse[expletive] is that good of a band but it's like [expletive] leagues and years beyond any of Wavves and Vivian Girls and [expletive]. That's elementary [expletive]. Like, [Expletive] my [expletive]. I don't know. Just a bunch of poseur [expletive], honestly.

I don't care if people like Psychedelic Horse[expletive]. It's for me. It's for me to make music that I like. I don't give a [expletive] if anybody likes it. Those bands, they're all about like, Oh, we're girls! Or, Oh, we're skaters! Or, Oh, we're California bros! Yeah, but, can you write a good song? No. You [expletive] put a couple chords together - I don't know. I shouldn't be talking so much [expletive] in an interview about Psychedelic Horse[expletive]. But it's so prevalent now, everybody's getting a [expletive] about all these bands.

Well that's the thing, everyone is getting a [expletive] out of these bands. It seems like now more than ever people load up on a bandwagon.
Well what it is, is the people who have been blogging all this stuff and making this stuff popular. No one has the [expletive] [expletive] to get on Terminal Boredom and be like, No man, that [expletive] sucks. Because no one will [expletive] stand up to those people. People think that all those people who say all that [expletive] and blog on Terminal Boredom, that that's The Word. Like, I love Mike Sniper to death, and he's a friend of mine. But it's like if Mike Sniper says something, that's the [expletive] it. If Mike Sniper says you're good, you're [expletive] the next [expletive] Matador band. And that's [expletive]. Because Mike Sniper, just because Blank Dogs had a prolific career and it was mysterious at first, doesn't mean that he [expletive] should dictate what is good in music nowadays.

And the future of music is [expletive] getting [expletive] by idiots on Terminal Boredom. [Expletive] kids that would be into cool music are listening to Wavves and No Age and thinking that it's really cool. So then there's [expletive] Wavves and No Age copy bands, like third generation, or actually it's like 10th generation [expletive], y'know? Kids are gonna start listening to that [expletive] and be like, Oh, this is cool, it sounds like No Age and Wavves. But it's gonna be even more watered down and we're gonna end up with [expletive] Britney Spears lo-fi.

Is it like the new grunge or something?
I hope it's like grunge or something like that. Because then maybe like someone will give us a couple thousand dollars to make a record and we can actually go into a studio and make an ambitious record. None of these bands getting signed to any of these labels have any ambition at all. It's like, they're comfortable writing two-chord [expletive] fuzzy pop songs. And they all sound the same. (Pauses to check cell phone.)

You gotta take a call? That's cool.
I gotta go smoke this joint with this dude. Can we go over there?

[We go over there.]

It seems like nobody wants to be the bummer on the party and say that something isn't good.
But the only way things get better, though, is if people have honest criticism. That's why music sucks today. All the honest critics that actually wrote good music criticism are [expletive] dead or got [expletive] sold. That's why music sucks. Because no one [expletive] has a [expletive] half a mind about [expletive] telling you when you [expletive] suck. The [expletive] first person that should've been on [expletive] Wavves and Vivian Girls and said they sucked was Rolling Stone. They should've been like, This is [expletive] [expletive]. [Expletive] this [expletive]. Rolling Stone? [Expletive] them! Those are important magazines. They need to [expletive] criticize instead of [expletive] [expletive].

Well Rolling Stone, that's been questionable for a while. You're on the cover then you get five stars the next issue.
Right. It's like being a homeless guy. If you [expletive] [expletive] you'll get money. But if you don't, you're gonna be a [expletive] homeless guy.

Honestly, with the bigger magazines you sort of expect that. But the whole thing was that blogging was supposed be more honest because it could be anyone and it could be anonymous -
Terminal Boredom is the new Rolling Stone. It's just as bad. The bigger heads on Terminal Boredom are ruining music today. Period.

Guy who he had to smoke a joint with: That [expletive] is idiotic. Idiotic!

Matt: That's Rob from Eat Skull. He'll be in the interview, too.

Rob: People who sit around [expletive] typing [expletive] on the Internet all day should be round up and shot.

Matt: I agree.

Dude, that's like, sort of my job.

Rob: Well, you can't fault a man for trying to make a dollar, dude.

Anyway, so you think this will make it harder for the "good" bands to break through?
Well now it's like if we make a record people are gonna be like, Oh, this Psychedelic Horse[expletive] record sounds like Wavves! Because it's lo-fi! No. No, it doesn't sound like Wavves. Wavves sounds like TV on the Radio, which [expletive] sounds like some really bad [expletive].

Yeah, I don't really get that band, they're not the worst.
It's just like Wavves if he had some black dudes and a full band.

I really do just think that people are afraid to be negative, unless it is proven from above that something sucks. Then it's fine.
Truth from above now is [expletive] Mike Sniper on Terminal Boredom. He's God. And I love Mike, Mike's the coolest dude, but it's like, that's why we have a government like we do. It has a balance of powers, there's checks and balances. If everybody is [expletive] [expletive] the figureheads of Terminal Boredom's [expletive] then music's just gonna keep getting [expletive] and it's gonna mask itself as good music and become a disease and kill the youth of America.

Rob: Oh, [expletive]. I didn't realize you were getting interviewed.

Matt: No, it's all cool, stay in.

Rob: Well, I think I gotta play.

Does that make you want to change what you want to do and sound like?
It was like that from the very beginning. I wanna make "OK Computer." You know? I wanna sound like Radiohead. I don't give a [expletive] about lo-fi. [Expletive] that [expletive]. It's stupid. It's a cop out.

So the new record will represent this?
We're trying to make it sound as good as it can. If someone would give us the money we could go into a studio and actually sound like Radiohead instead of trying to do it with lo-fi equipment.

But you have like five new releases coming out over the next few months, right?
Four. Four or five, something like that. Might as well do it, you know, while people will still want to actually put out Psychedelic Horse[expletive] records, which I don't think will be very long. Might as well put out as much [expletive] [expletive] as you can. Things aren't gonna be like they are for this long.

Do you think the inevitable backlash will [expletive] you over without ever having benefitted you?
No, because I don't even feel a part of it. We're just guilty by association. I don't personally feel part of it. We just get lumped in with it. It's inevitable that we're gonna get lumped in with that [expletive]. It's just bad for music.

Rob: You made up that name.

Matt: What? Psychedelic Horse[expletive]?

Rob: No, the name of the genre. (Laughs.)

Matt: Oh, [expletive]gaze. Yeah, yeah. You know what? No one's even made a [expletive]gaze record yet. It hasn't been accomplished. No one's [expletive] taken lo-fi to that next level and made a record as good as "Loveless" and "OK Computer" that is lo-fi and uses the medium in a way that's accessible to millions. I don't know. This took a pretty weird direction I guess. It's just all me going, [Expletive] all this [expletive].

Well, you know, beef is in now, apparently.
It's just I'm annoyed by it. I have to [expletive] see it all the time and I'm [expletive] sick of it. I don't wanna have to [expletive] play with Wavves with his [expletive] gelled hair and his [expletive] skateboard buddies. It's like, [Expletive] off, man.

Well I guess originally lo-fi was about the complete lack of image -
That's all it is now. Lo-fi was kind of cool because the music was different and fresh. But now it's like a thing. It's like clothes. Like, I'm just wearing lo-fi clothes, because that's what's hip right now. This blank [expletive] that has no value in it at all and no passion or spirit. And as long as its stylized, like the logo on the record is something you can put in an American Apparel store, thousands of people are gonna buy it.

OK, so how about Times New Viking. They're your friends, they've done three albums that were all very lo-fi, so -
Yeah, and I've been trying to talk them into going hi-fi. And I think it's like, they're in a position where they could really - they are on Matador Records. They could be making some crazy [expletive] [expletive] with the money that they get and make an ambitious record. But they wanna keep doing the lo-fi thing. And that's kind of even more bad ass because you're on a major label and they want to keep making lo-fi records because it's like, [Expletive] you. We could be going hi-fi, but we don't want to. We're on a big label and that's what everybody does once they're on a big label. So like, [expletive] that [expletive]. Everybody starts sucking once they get on a label. We're gonna stay lo-fi and stick to what we know and keep making good music.

And they might not become the biggest band in the world but in [expletive] 20 years every Times New Viking record that you listen to is gonna sound [expletive] sweet as [expletive] and people are never gonna be like, Times New Viking started to suck. Every one of their records is gonna be like, that [expletive] record was tight. And you know what? It [expletive] came out on a major label. And that's even tighter.

You're doing the Siltbreeze showcase tonight, and it seems like there's a bit of a comeback for labels, where you can trust something will be good if it's on a certain label. But then there's the other aspect which you were talking about before.
There's so much music being made now. It's so easy, it's so [expletive] easy to find good music. It's everywhere. There's a million [expletive] good bands and half of that million no one has ever heard because they don't play out of their bedrooms, or [expletive]. Or they don't make tapes or anything. The best [expletive] is something that people have never heard. It's unfortunate the way things are.

Music has turned into a commodity. It's something that's part of like - I'm sounding like a total hippie right now - but it's like this spirit and it's part of everyone. It's something that connects with everybody on a very basic level and it's something everyone can relate to. And it just sucks that it gets boxed up. And the fact that it got boxed up in the first place, people started making boxes instead of expressing their spirit. It's just a bummer.

But it's fun, though. Everyone should [expletive] make music. Do crazy [expletive]. Just make music and hand it out to everybody. Do [expletive] crazy things. No one's [expletive] wild anymore. Nothing crazy happens. No one tells the truth because everyone's so afraid of what everyone else is gonna think, and their image. Everyone's afraid of being pretentious. And it's like - pretension is necessary to advance art. And honest criticism is necessary to advance art. Failure is necessary to advance art. And everyone's so afraid of all of those.

OMG, have we seriously reached a point in the indie bubble where people working in a 25-year-old idiom criticize other people working in a 25-year-old idiom for people having heard of them?

hahaha that interview was conducted by my ex-bandmate/friend

i have never listened to any of these bands but man that was hysterically entertaining. it's almost kind of adorable that there are people that take a scene like that that seriously and still talk about "poseurs" with zero irony. also this is comedy gold:

Rob: People who sit around (expletive) typing (expletive) on the Internet all day should be round up and shot.

Matt: I agree.

Dude, that's like, sort of my job.

Rob: Well, you can't fault a man for trying to make a dollar, dude.

t[epletive]l,d[expletive]r

[expletive]

Rob is comedy gold.

I gotta go smoke this joint with this dude. Can we go over there?

[We go over there.]

I like how the vivian girls thread has become lofi central

wait, is it a pun i dont get?

haha nah I just meant lol @ the official coronation of the (ridiculous) genre name in an album title. it's like calling your album BEARDO DISCO - FINALLY FIXED FOR VAHID

I passed up buying SHITGAZE ANTHEMS today when I saw that it's b-sides, grabbed the new Wooden Shjips insted

New Shjips is dope.

do I get the credit for Beardo Disco or does Vahid?

matt whitehurst ot [expletive] m

on one hand I get where that guy matt is coming from, seems as though his heart is in the right place? but on the other he sounds like somebody still talking about "real" hardcore 20 years after the shock of the new wore off. when I heard sebadoh way back in '88, even then it was "oh yeah, lou barlow's doing the lofi thing now", like he was dabbling in dance music or went metal.

seems like blues control are the only ones doing something interesting with the lofi angle recently.

No, this is a hilariously childish tantrum which could take years to live down: "Those bands, they're all about like, Oh, we're girls! "

Should be a flat race to be the first of the bands mentioned to quote this on the cover of a nice limited 7"

Bands such as Wavves, Vivian Girls, No Age and Times New Viking have become superstars on the indie scene by adhering a similar approach.

XD

if you aaaaaare what they say you aaaaaaare a suppppppersttaaaar, then have no feeeear, the blogs are heeeere

um, i saw nerve city last night and i liked it but compared to their recordings, the songs were too fast :( all bands should play slower imho.

You know "Tell The World" came on my ipod earlier and I had to check who it was because it's so good. I have to laugh at those dudes from Psychedelic Horseshit/Eat Skull above - I love both those bands but really are we talking about poseurs in 2009 really? I just have to shrug at all this.

yeah, that "superstars on the indie scene" practically breaks my brain; I cannot think of what system of weird bubbles it would require to really feel that way!

I cannot think of what system of weird bubbles it would require to really feel that way!

http://118.98.213.22/choirul/how/a/b/beer/beer-bottle-rinse.jpg

honestly, in the bizarro world i inhabit, bands like eat skull & vivian girls are way way way way way more popular than yer average pitchfork-approved, mom-friendly indie blah blah blah.

Don't know how that Nerve City reference came up, but that first song ("Living Wage") of the most recent cassette is a monster. I have not heard every song by every other band mentioned here, but I've a hard time imagining that any of them are better than "Living Wage." Haven't warmed to the Nerve City 10" that just came out (speaking of playing slower), but I'll be working at it.

This guy has the Hell cassette up: http://ongakubaka.blogspot.com/2009/05/nerve-city-hell.html

If the Vivian Girls ever raise the hairs on your neck, let me know.

well, if that's not a rhetorical question:

You know "Tell The World" came on my ipod earlier and I had to check who it was because it's so good.

"Tell the World" is, from the first note to the last, a dissipated attempt at a Wipers song; so yes, it taps into some of that power(with a touch of c-86 melody floating atop)—just enough to remind you it's not the real deal. Even in their straight-up Wipers cover ("Telepathic Love") they can't get all the way there, though I do like the kazoo-y sound they get on the guitar. Of course, how many bands do approach the '79-'83 Wipers? So it's hard to get on them too much.

"Those bands, they're all about, Oh we're The Wipers!"

I hate me some kobe bryant and derek fisher but that's a post for another board altogether - sorry...

― sknybrg, Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:09 PM

09 playoffs thread

― THE_REAL_PHIL (Dr. Phil), Sunday, 10 May 2009 14:56 (1 week ago)

Thanks Phil - awesome threads, both.
^Interview is peals of hysterical laughter

it appears as if wavves have succumbed to the pressure of being a hyped lo-fi indie rock band

http://pitchfork.com/news/35459-wavves-self-destruct-in-barcelona/

This is being discussed at length in the Rolling Punk thread.

thank u

new album is quite a step forward from the first i note

this sure was a great thread about indie rock

uhhhh. i kind of love the new one? never heard the whole first album, but this one has great songs and i *love* it when they sing together. pretty great autumn record.

i dont know, i like it, but i like the first one better, so far...

cool, maybe i need to listen to the first one

did you never??

oh i see now that i read your post

*ahem*

at least it's better than that Pens record everyone is going nuts for. That one's up there with the Cold Cave LP for WORST. RECORD. EVER.

haven't heard either of those bandssssss^^

though wasn't a cold cave dude in the band AMERICAN NIGHTMARE? Lol, played a show with them once

Que, I'm definitely of the opinion that that songwriting on the new one is a lot richer and more interesting

i really like THE TREES GREW EMOTIONS AND DIED by cold cave, but ian is OTM about that pens record. no good!

yeah I think Cold Cave is ok

THE TREES GREW EMOTIONS AND DIED

LOL

Que, I'm definitely of the opinion that that songwriting on the new one is a lot richer and more interesting

i agree with this. and there's a lot more appealingly tiger trap/aislers set-esque vibes on this one that weren't as prominent on the first.

seein em on wednesday, i will undoubtedly be the least hip person there

second record is pretty awesome. it took a while but i really like it.

how does it compare to the s/t?

better. by a lot. more confident, less self-conscious.

i thought the first record was really solid, and it didn't hurt that it was super short. i'll have to add this to the ever-growing list of records i need to check out.

ksh, if you get this, stick with it. not that much jumps out at first but it's a total grower.

will do, cad. most of my favorite records took multiple listens before I "got" them