the thread for dizzee rascal's 4th album tongue 'n' cheek

hate bonkers but the bside thats produced by shy fx is a lot better than the song they did together on the last album, (and bonkers) tho its still a bit 'generic dance banger'. im guessing this is the album hes trying to get ridiculously massive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/17/dizzee-rascal-mps-expenses

This record is going to be shockingly bad. Also massive.

Do you like any music, Matt?

Wow that told me.

I love his last three albums, but just lowering my expectations for this one. I hope he's canny enough to avoid putting out his own See Clear Now but the last couple of singles don't inspire confidence. It's hard to begrudge him becoming a genuine properly huge pop star, even if I don't think much of his recorded output any more.

That said basing a track around Dirty Cash is a brilliant idea in theory.

I'm actually anticipating this a lot more after his Glastonbury performance. His version of Dirty Cash is brilliant.

Also judging by the ENORMOUS crowd he pulled at Glasto and how up for it they were, Dizzee will be the biggest pop star in the country by the end of the year.

what's the going line on Dizzee's trajectory? I mean - I liked Boy In Da Corner but I loved Showtime to pieces, one of my favorite albums of the decade really. Maths I liked but Showtime was going to be pretty hard to follow for me no matter what he did. But what's the general consensus?

didnt see his performance, other than the clip they showed on newsnight where he came on as they played bits of his paxman interview. didnt really get the point of that though, i think he was going for something like what old rappers used to do to show how they were so anti establishment, except dizzees soundbites just made him sound like a bit of a prat. a funny one, but still a prat. forgot how good his old bars were though, even though he did them over that ting tings track.

Reexamining him for the purposes of a best-of-decade list, I thought Showtime and Boy in Da Corner were the same album, and I liked Maths + English best (Marcello has an illuminating essay from 2007 on his blog).

I'm actually anticipating this a lot more after his Glastonbury performance. His version of Dirty Cash is brilliant.

same here, even 'bonkers' sounded great. i loved 'maths and english' but still prefer the debut.

The consensus seems to be that BIDC is his best. I have a bit of trouble separating them but I'd probably rank Showtime as his weakest even if his flow on that is something else. It doesn't quite have the shock and awe of the first album or the sheer enjoyment factor of the third. Also the production is a bit tinny.

His performance was terrific, one of the best things I saw all weekend. The crowd was so big (larger than Neil Young the previous night) and he really had them in the palm of his hand. I hadn't seen him live in five years and he's got so much better at working a crowd, and I didn't quite realise quite how charismatic he can be. Still, I remember thinking "yeah, this is his moment". The album will be *huge* in the UK.

Also, small children seem to love him.

showtime isnt tinny, its just a bit slow. and the production doesnt have the sharp edges of the other two. its like he slicked it out even as he made it darker. it still has stand up tall though, which might be his all time best MC performance.

"small children seem to love him"

id love him to do some more songs like dream. i could easily see a little dizzee cartoon working too actually, as long as it didnt try and be 'edgy' or anything.

and "dream" which is one of the most beautiful things in the world & makes me cry you unfeeling bastards

XPOST OH YEAH TITTYSCHNEIDER WAY TO XPOST MY AWESOME LOL, GOOD JOB

Showtime > Maths & English

i really wish 'bonkers' and 'dance wiv me' were better - stuff like 'dream' and the lily allen track on maths & english showed that dizz is one of the few grime/ex-grime MCs who can do populist cheese really well, and he makes a great pop star for all the reasons matt says. but they're just so subpar. still better than tinchy's electrocrap hits i guess :(

Reexamining him for the purposes of a best-of-decade list

by the way do we have the decade starting in 2000 or 2001

2000, because the kids surely want to include Kid Arse.

Holiday is the next single and it sounds better than either, despite being produced by Calvin Harris (it doesn't feature his vocals which is a good start). Better still is the aforementioned Dirty Cash. The other new track he played, Road Rage, is basically Pussyole (Old Skool) and leads me to think the new album won't be entirely shiny electropop.

(xxpost to Lex)

Dizzee is actually the worst thing about 'Bonkers'. serviceable banger by AVH but the chorus is a bit annoying.

i forgot the lilly allen collabo. that was so good. cant believe it wasnt a hit!

i hate bonkers and dance wiv me. flex was a 100 times better than DWM but it barely even charted. bloody british public.

i just found holiday. its better than bonkers or DWM. wearing my rolex is still better than any of these though ;)

i can't believe the lily allen collab wasn't even a single.

'flex' was so amazing and i've just remembered how great 'bubbles' was as well!

bubbles i always thought was too sluggish and a bit boring. but flex should have been huge, the dj q remix esp. but then its like the better dizzee is, the worse he does.

listening to 'holiday' now.

:(

sigh.

Titchy OTM about the DJ Q remix of "Flex". That's my second favourite bassline tune ever probably.

Yeah, I don't care for the original, but the DJ Q remix is what's up.

I like but don't love BIDC and love about half of M&E, but have no use for the other half, do I need to hear Showtime?

http://truetosound.net/videos/2137-dizzee-rascal-holiday-official-video/

i like this song now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205416/When-Dizzee-met-Harry--nearly-punched-him.html

lol

http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4137560-first-listen--dizzee-rascals-tongue-n-cheek

Is there any chance this isn't going to suck?

27%

hope the bmore club track doesnt sound too shit.

what the hell is Goldie doing in the 'Holiday' video?

now available on an internets near you

it's brill!!

in america we say "trill"

was gonna say something like "if you hate on this album ur a dick" but really i would be staggered were anyone to front

in uk we use trillo pads

Downloading it now...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2009/9/10/1252600857727/Dizzee-Rascal-studio-shot-001.jpg

This is an amazing look.

louis rascal

i HATE those shirts w/difft coloured collar & cuffs

Under normal circumstances I also hate them but I fucking WANT that shirt.

This is much better than the singles suggest. Unfortunately once you factor out the singles and the way ropey Tiesto track it's also very short.

This album is str8 dogshit from top to bottom

album is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than i thought. cheered me up. bonkers and dance wiv me still get deleted though. weird to hear hooks like chillin wiv da man dem on an album i thought would be all for the radio one listenership. and the one with shy fx is prob his best 'conscious' track so far. the beat for money money is fucking wicked. needs a remix with ragga twins.

GIRL ILL HOUSE YOU
GIRL LL HOUSE YOU
GIRL ILL HOUSE YOU

Fuxk is rap such a losing proposition that everyone has to make black eyed peas daft Dilpo bullshit just to survive? This house-rap shit is gnna be remembered as fondly as hair metal. FFFFFUUUUUUUU-

is there a sample of 'i'll house you' on it? on one of the songs?

Fuxk is rap such a losing proposition that everyone has to make black eyed peas daft Dilpo bullshit just to survive? This house-rap shit is gnna be remembered as fondly as hair metal. FFFFFUUUUUUUU-

this is not that though - sorry america but you are neglecting to factor in the concept of great british seaside cheese

fyi let the records show that the most embarrassing thing dizzee's yet done is by far that ugk collabo

RONG

Fuck Dizzee imo. Holiday one of the most shockingly awful pieces of music released this year. I'm going to listen to Dizzee and Slimzee for 2002 and have a cry.

totally fucked that last sentence there. Hangovers. Going to listen to A Dizzee and Slimzee MIX for FROM 2002 and have a cry.

Last album was dope IMO. Who needed calvin Harris to fart neon clouds all over it?

Give me an album of 12 "pussyoles" and I'd call it album of the decade

which decade?

Any

eh 'pussyole' is way more on some diplo shit than anything on this album! aggression isn't a de facto integrity signifier you know.

RONG AGAIN

Ah, good point. Thanks for pointing out r|t|c's mistakes. Truly, conversation is the soul of society.

whiney and rtc disagreeing about something i don't really care or know anything about = http://i39.tinypic.com/23m7tjd.jpg

get involved bro, knowing anything about anything not applicable today apparently

i dunno, whiney aside much of what people are complaining about so far strikes me as too far compromised by individual preference for dizz as angry angular grime kid, or whatever - i really don't want this to come across like another gucci mane/taylor swift/cassie style "you have to meet the artist 99% of the way is all!" zone of fixated pointlessness thing but in terms of where the artist's at in his career and so on it's preferable and not necessarily fatally compromisory to assess how effective stuff is within an album's own terms imo. anything else is surely a bit immature?

bah yeah ok this does sound like subjective fannydangle doesnt it.

"ya kinda just -- smell what i'm telling you because you feel me... "

however i mean, to put the tin hat on it if you take the two current b-sides 'butterfly' and 'live large n in charge' (which are on some dubstep/jump up jungle retro flex), personally i can't stand by those at all - to me that's the awful student union cash-in crowd dizzee is irritatingly guilty of placating sometimes, not the random punter who otherwise wouldnt give a fuck.

also people are acting like this is a blatant wiley type affair with a bunch of regular acceptably grimy cuts and then 'rolex' tacked on the end - it's not, it's a consistent thought-out album that flows really really well. so far i've never once felt compelled to skip the singles.

sorry to change the subject but i totally object to the gucci/cassie comparison. how is anyone a gucci 'have to meet 99% of the way' thing? hes hugely popular as a rapper & for easily recognizable reasons

i mean the 'stannery' isnt some crit magicking of something that isnt there

predictable of me to take it personally i know but thats so off base.

also fuck dizzee rascal the only thing ive liked of his lately was the dnb track off 'maths'

― butthurt (deej)

what the fuck ever

i dont know when anyone has claimed gucci's been only on good songs or whatever so im really not sure what rtc is talking abt

he's certainly not talking about anything that can't be suddenly silenced with an airtight defense like "he's popular"

"fannydangle"!

he's certainly not talking about anything that can't be suddenly silenced with an airtight defense like "he's popular"

― some dude, Saturday, September 19, 2009 3:43 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well its hard to make it airtight when his position is so vague isnt it!! but if youre an expert maybe you can explain it to me

i mean if i try to read into it i understand the crit re: cassie; shes a one-hit artist whose personality worked an effect on one particular popular single but treating her as something more required a whole lot of extra narratives & shit that requires a certain level of popist nerdery

but theres no parallel w/ gucci which is why i brought up his popularity as an ARTIST

'zone of fixated pointlessness' -- yah just like the zone of fixated pointlessness around tupac or biggie or any artist at any level who u have to buy a little bit into their framework to see how it operates ... i dont see how gucci is any difft from that. this is especially ridiculous coming from a dude talking about dizzee fukkin rascal

BUTTTT maybe im totally misreading rtc here --

its hard to tell bcuz hes inferring things instead of explaining them outright. but comparing gucci to cassie is ridiculous. its not like we're magicking up flo rida or something.

http://i39.tinypic.com/23m7tjd.jpg

deej i think it's a shame that we've never hung out in real life. if i go tell my cat "gucci mane isn't the greatest" will you teleport into my living room to save the day?

dizzee rascal has like 15 threads on ilx & im the crazy one for being captain save an actually popular artist

shouldnt u be considering how best to haughtily condescend to people who dont categorize every artist in the 'ok -> decent' range

how about you do a head count of how many people post frequently on the cassie and taylor swift threads and then reflect on how many of them didn't take the bait you took

even cassie fans recognize what it means to be a cassie fan now

fwiw i dig the first cassie record

was there ever a second?

"eh 'pussyole' is way more on some diplo shit"

not really. pussyole is like it takes two (obv) meets old hardcore rave. it doesnt sound as jokey/hokey as this road rage tune which is produced by fucking aaron lacrate of all people (i dont hate it though).

xxpost - yeah those 2 new bsides are both complete shite. dizzee in angry fake underground mode just doesnt cut it anymore.

"dizzee rascal has like 15 threads on ilx & im the crazy one for being captain save an actually popular artist"

Willing to bet that this record will rightly or wrongly outsell every US rap release this year, in the UK.

Thread needs less fronting from posturing Americans who have almost certainly never listened to, say Durrty Goodz' Ultrasound or any actual 09 grime complaining about Dizzee going pop or whatever, and more discussion of Dizzee's racing car noises on Road Rage. NYEEEEEEEEEEEEOW!

Also I automatically give a free pass to any track where an MC gratuitously goes "YOUR MUM!"

deej i read r|t|c as simply referring to the old "you have to buy into the artist's aesthetic decisions a bit to understand which individual tracks work and which don't" argument.

Wasn't there some big blog controversy around gucci recently along the lines of "lol this guy is dumb what on earth do people see in him?"

Which is kinda similar to how lots of people react to Taylor esp when they see others claim she's a good songwriter.

would personally rather listen to this than gucci mayne. but then id rather listen to grime than most modern US hip hop.

Deej was all "my gucci senses are tingling" and jumped in the stanmobile

love him going on about petrol prices and the congestion charge on this - he just can't believe how much it costs to drive these days

idk why i'm looking fwd to this despite not feeling the singles - though to be fair only "dance wiv me" is HORRIBLE, "holiday" just kinda annoying and "bonkers" is bleh, esp considering how amazing a dizzee van helden track should've been.

holiday is good except for the chorus. but yeah, if you think about what bonkers could have been, its a huge dissapointment.

how might Bonkers have been improved from a production point of view (in a way as to still be radio-friendly or whatever)?

said it before but Dizzee's own dumbing down lyrically and flow-wise is way more disappointing than the music but suppose they go hand in hand

Willing to bet that this record will rightly or wrongly outsell every US rap release this year, in the UK.
^^^ truthbomb

deej is it your opinion that unless a rapper is American he couldn't really count? don't take that as bait, serious question, it's just that how you sound dismissing a dude who's not only hugely respected at home but also for example by Houston heads

OK I had no idea Dizzee's scored three UK number one singles in the last year.

yea he's real big now

probably won't have a #1 "on his own" as it were, but could get another if he actually did the obvious team up with Tinchy (if this doesn't actually ever happen then facepalm UK industry)

nyaaaawooonn

i need to find an acapella of bonkers so i can mix it with some old AVH tracks.

how might Bonkers have been improved from a production point of view (in a way as to still be radio-friendly or whatever)?

― unban dictionary (blueski), Sunday, 20 September 2009 16:34 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

said it before but Dizzee's own dumbing down lyrically and flow-wise is way more disappointing than the music but suppose they go hand in hand

― unban dictionary (blueski), Sunday, 20 September 2009 16:36 (3 hours ago) Bookmark

You pretty much answer your own question here. Repeating the same verse 12 times on Bonkers was a proper snoozefest.

Yeah but Steve was talking about improving Bonkers production-wise, not flow-wise.

His flow is still pretty damn great on a fair few of the album tracks. Not 'Stand Up Tall' great, but still. I doubt he'll make another 'Boy In Da Corner' but a lot of these tracks are no dumber than, say, Bubbles, or Flex, or Girls or any of his earlier big party tracks. Even when he's doing dodgy Calvin Harris collaborations I'd still rather listen to Dizzee than Tinchy's brand of pop grime (mostly because Tinchy has nothing to say at all and no memorable lines whatsoever on his entire album).

i need to find an acapella of bonkers so i can mix it with some old AVH tracks

if you find it let me know...

it was used with Fake Blood 'Mars' on one of those MOS (i think) mash-up compilations but that's not much of a stretch (surely there is or will be a Fake Blood remix of Dizzee anyway)

deej is it your opinion that unless a rapper is American he couldn't really count? don't take that as bait, serious question, it's just that how you sound dismissing a dude who's not only hugely respected at home but also for example by Houston heads

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:16 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not at all & i havent really asserted this at all -- i was objecting (overstrenuously but whatever) to the notion that gucci is some artist u have to totally 'buy into' to get it

@ tim -- "deej i read r|t|c as simply referring to the old "you have to buy into the artist's aesthetic decisions a bit to understand which individual tracks work and which don't" argument. "

then why did he say '99%'?? sounds like more than 'a bit'!!

whatevs i overreacted but id still like to understand purely on a discourse-level wtf rtc was talking about ...

deej, I think the major flaw in your "wtf Gucci Mane is actually POPULAR, not like Cassie" argument is that rtc also listed another actually popular artist (probably more so than Gucci) at the same time

this album is great

BUT

"can't tek no more" is a rip-off of a jess & crabbe rhythm

Wasn't it deej who said gucci was the most popular rapper of 2008?

i have never heard gucci mane

Wasn't it deej who said gucci was the most popular rapper of 2008?

― Hoostentlantavegas (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i said 'among rap fans' u goof

ive decided upon reflection that my concerns are irrelevant due to the us vs. uk divide

if whiney starts talking that ish tho weve got problems

the us/uk divide isn't such a huge deal. lots of non-americans seem to cope fine when it comes to eg gucci mane, for example

Why are we talking about Gucci Mane again?

Listened to this again on the way in and if they'd put Dizzee's flow on Bad Behaviour over the rest of Bonkers then you'd have 1x incredible banger. The former deserves better than the weedy Tiesto beat (really feels like it was submitted five minutes before album deadline) and Bonkers deserves better than the half-arsed performance Dizzee puts in.

I'd settle for a Van Helden/Switch/Count & Sinden remix of Bad Behaviour.

"the us/uk divide isn't such a huge deal. lots of non-americans seem to cope fine when it comes to eg gucci mane, for example"

you'd think americans would be less defensive/protective about hip hop by now, esp when the music and their artists have conquered the world...

Wait, weren't you the one talking about how Speech Debelle wasn't really hip-hop on another thread?

i dont recall ever saying that. just saying that her 'jazzy' brand of hip hop is more suited to people that dont tend to like hip hop by and large.

I tend to parse "that doesn't sound like hip-hop" to be roughly analogous to "that is not hip-hop".

Isn't that a bit of a willful misreading?

I went back and looked and yes, it is totally a willful misreading.

The one that samples The Adventures of Stevie V's "Money Talks (Dirty Cash)" is the best.

http://dirteehomeshopping.com/

:D

its funnier on tv though - tighter edit and all that obv.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f14/snouts/catgun.gif

what up dudes. do i really gotta explain everything in the gucci aside or can we live without? if will if u want but i assure you it will be long and boring!

tbh i am more taken with the assertion the us/uk divide (in rap at least) isn't a big deal - i could not disagree any more strongly. i mean it isnt a big deal in the sense that life goes on and neither side could give a fuck but best believe fucks are resoundingly not being given. in fact i've kinda wanted to start a big "us rap culture in the uk RIP" thread for a while but i couldnt be arsed without at least passantino around.

i dont hear much US hip hop from cars anymore. well not compared to a few years back. im more likely to hear giggs.

*cars/phones on buses.

US rap is all i ever heard from people's fucking phones over the last few years

only 3 feet deep then.

so what's the album sound like? I don't know Gucci Mane

I like Holiday. Whoever said it was great except for the chorus was "OTM"

this album is great. you can see why hes been a bit shit when hes been on radio lately - his flow is written around each beat, its not all-purpose for any garage/grime beat.

lots of mugging comments here -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/18/dizzee-rascal-tongue-n-cheek

tbh i am more taken with the assertion the us/uk divide (in rap at least) isn't a big deal

oh i agree that uk interest in us hip-hop is minimal - i meant that those few british (or non-american) people who are interested don't seem to find it the kind of unbridgeable cultural divide when listening to gucci mane or young dro or whoever as deej apparently does when listening to dizz.

thats cos the uk media/fans/critics etc are all out to discredit american artists (see: the comments on the cocaineblunts blog where the whole timbaland/drum n bass argument was recently resurrected).

titchy is mad cuz folks think the dnb -> timbaland argument is tenuous at best

Why do people keep on deliberately ignoring the existence of dancehall.

they forgot it exists

I was listening to Da Real World again the other day, and something like "She's A Bitch" is just straight dancehall arrangement-wise.

im enjoying where dizzee is right now, and ive invested a lot of time in him. people who say hes selling out are missing the point. dude deserves some credit. his performances on jools holland were great. i havent heard the new album but i like all the singles except bonkers. this post sounds retarded im sure but im drunk so im trying to keep things on an even keel. i agree with rtc he cant be angry angular grime kid the whole time dudes got a sense of humour let him revel in fun. at the end of the day i will buy this cd cos dizzee is awes. grrrr.

"flex" and "bubbles" were fun. "holiday" and "dance wiv me", very much not fun.

still haven't heard this album! fucking postal strikes.

I think Bonkers is the best song ever! I couldn't believe how much I loved it when I saw the video. But maybe I'm just an American and don't understand dance music or something.

I'd totally forgotten about him, hadn't heard anything since BIdC.

""She's A Bitch" is just straight dancehall arrangement-wise."

makes me think of UK garage actually. what dancehall track(s) do you think it reminds you of?

rhythmically it's a lot like Grace Jones 'Feel Up'

uk garage doesnt have a rhythmic loop structure like that

yeah maybe. but its not that hard to see that the rhythm for a track like photeks' somke rings is quite a bit like missy's get your freak on. still interested to hear what dancehall tracks he thought of wrt shes a bitch.

*smoke rings

UKG is way off-base. "She's a Bitch" doesn't have any shuffle to it. It's more based on a 3-2 pulse, like......dancehall.

fair enough. i was actually thinking of later period ukg tunes but those would likely have been influenced by timbaland as they came after 99/00.

can we just have a new thread for all this timbo/uk discussion? or put it into an existing one?

haha are people really hating on "bonkers" on this thread. big tune, if anything it's too short!. get it, too short

can we just have a new thread for all this timbo/uk discussion? or put it into an existing one?

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:01 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

titchy's ego discussion? no one agrees w u

yeah, cos im the first person to ever suggest uk dance music had an influence on timbaland.

dickhead.

timbo has said in interviews that it's coincidence

why don't we have a cluster fuck over OMG TIMBALAND HAS HEARD "CONE TOASTER" next?

why dont we have a cluster fuck about people praising dizzee rascal when they should be praising gucci mayne instead? cos yknow, theyre proper rivals at the end of the day arent they?

*eye roll*

I still can't figure out what that argument was about

deej throwing another tantrum most likely.

r|t|c: You know, why doesn't some Dizzee what more like when he does because he should when Gucci Mane also Cassie

deej: Hey, fuck you!

hahaha

:)

- i was tryna make a point that people were stuck in one way of seeing dizz and it was clouding their ears

- at the same time trying to reasonably modify that to say that brainwashing themselves in hearing him more broadly would also be unsatisfactory (obv no one was actually gonna, but this was in ref to various current critical strands which in their lack of success and/or interest in transmitting their enthusiasms across to more equivocal listeners i felt seemed to demand just that; the examples of taylor swift, cassie and also - admittedly pretty callously on my part given that living in the uk i have little likelihood in getting into him either way - gucci mane)

- via the other examples deej takes this to mean that i doubt the popularity of and/or value in gucci; waaahmbulance arrives, flips over, explodes, kills thread

- i return a couple days later regretting i ever said anything and knowing full well that any stab at explanation will result in my taking on role of sexy lady in benny hill sketch re-enactment

- ?????

- profit

told yall it'd be tedious

obv no one was actually gonna, but this was in ref to various current critical strands which in their lack of success and/or interest in transmitting their enthusiasms across to more equivocal listeners i felt seemed to demand just that

Can you explain your explanations now?

http://cdn.stereogum.com/img/thumbnails/posts/dizzee-rascal-videl-bonkers.jpg
innit

think he means that just as the long-hyped dizzee is getting hits, the british music hacks who have supported him through the lean years are having doubts (cuz... u know... his new stuff is fucking garbage) but have to play up, play up, and play the game and salute him on his way up, only come across as insincere.

oh god that is not what i am saying at all

Is Taylor Swift unsuccessful in the UK? If you go anywhere near pop radio in the US (at least in Boston), she is inescapable.

(conversely, I have no idea if Gucci Mane is getting radio play in this market because the station most likely to play him became unbearably horrible back in 1999 and I haven't listened to it since)

x-post

True but there have been plenty examples on ILM of taylor fan club trying and failing to explain her qualities to doubters. You can't say "Taylor actually has really good lyrics" to someone who's not into country or teen-pop lyrical tropes and expect them to understand what that means, let alone have their minds changed. So that kind of piecemeal logic-of-equivalence approach that we tend to use here in order to win people over starts to break down.

Swift nearly had a #1 earlier this year but probably she's not really a household name or anything just yet (more so since last week tho).

You can't say "Taylor actually has really good lyrics" to someone who's not into country or teen-pop lyrical tropes and expect them to understand what that means, let alone have their minds changed.

I think they may understand what it means OK, it's just that disinterest in or dislike of those aspects completely that can't really be shifted.

Ha, I would have thought her lyrics were the one spot that ppl could grudgingly give Taylor props, esp. given her age.

Yeah, that's what taylor fan club thought.

ok if we're rolling with this derail -- what lyrics/tropes are specific to country or teen-pop (as opposed to just general contemporary pop songwriting of a gazillion different stripes)?

people don't really say her lyrics suck tho i thought, they just don't really care about them at all. that's how i feel anyway.

i kind of don't believe that anyone who professes an interest in pop music can actually have a disinterest in lyrics so entrenched that it can't be shifted

a disinterest in HER lyrics, to clarify. not all lyrics ever obv.

to be fair, "taylor fan club" is a touch bigger than "cassie fan club" - there will always be stick-in-the-muds who stick their fingers in their ears and go LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR HER TALENT, and a lot of kneejerk anti-country sentiment in the UK, but compared w/cassie and gucci, most people seem to find it broadly unproblematic "getting" taylor

do you accept that people can not like/care about Swift without being 'stick-in-the-muds' or kneejerk anti-country?

tbh I ignored the "lyrical tropes" part and was only considering the language chosen, the metric scheme and how evocative of the story Taylor's lyrics are; there's nothing specifically country about the lyrics to her big songs (ie, nothing about farms, cowboys, gambling, Jesus, drinking, rodeos, etc) and everything about being a bookish teen in love

I can't get behind Taylor Swift because I hate her singing voice.

oh god why am I discussing Taylor Swift on a Dizzee Rascal thread

Can we get back to discussing the album?

can someone look up "disinterested"?

BOWNKAZ

"what lyrics/tropes are specific to country or teen-pop (as opposed to just general contemporary pop songwriting of a gazillion different stripes)?"

This is a fair point - I was thinking of a song like "Mary's Song" which I think is charming but I'm sure many other people would cringe at due to its starry-eyed celebrating of marrying your childhood friend and staying together 4eva, seeing in that a certain naffness X conservatism that is worse than either quality in isolation. That's content rather than style obv. "he's the reason for the teardrops on my guitar'" (which I don't like much as a chorus) is perhaps a better example of taylor's indebtedness to country stylewise.

most of the concrete objections i've seen are to do with the romeo/juliet and prince/princess imagery in "love story" specifically; i don't take them seriously b/c the people making them have obviously not listened to any of the other lyrics

w/r/t dizz - i am finally listening to the album and enjoying it! all the singles programmed OUT tho. calvin harris will not sully my itunes.

you are neglecting to factor in the concept of great british seaside cheese

this actually raised my trepidation earlier tho. a curious thing for rtc to praise it for, given that he - quite rightly - dismissed girls aloud's "fling" last year on much the same grounds.

did you literally 'programme out' the singles? i have forgotten how that kind of thing even works

deleted them

obv no one was actually gonna, but this was in ref to various current critical strands which in their lack of success and/or interest in transmitting their enthusiasms across to more equivocal listeners i felt seemed to demand just that

you honestly can parse that sentence?

its sort of like english as a 2nd language -- just sorta feel it out

pretty sure all the guy was saying was that he'd like to say "take this Dizzee album on its own terms without thinking about his past albums or the grime scene," but hesitated to do so because a lot of artists with a groundswell of fanclubbish support on ILX right now seem to generate a degree of fervor and analysis that outstrips what their music, enjoyable as it may be, seems to actually demand from or inspire in the average unconverted listener, which can be offputting and set up a lot of extreme love/hate reactions towards artists that probably wouldn't otherwise provoke such extreme emotions.

whiney's version was funnier tho

yeah but i disagree with that sentiment here -- if any artist would provoke reactions why wouldnt it be an up & coming rap star who is doing something different? when is it ok for us to be u know, 'fervent' about an artist? are we really outstripping gucci's music w/ our fervent analysis? i dont think we are & thats exactly what im objecting to

i mean 90% of our posts are just reposts of his lyrics we think are fun & funny ... not sure whats so out-of-line w/ that shit

the only big claims we made ppl might have found shocking were about his level of popularity, not about specific attributes of the music itself

maybe you can see the disconnect between people who think Gucci is "doing something different" and those that don't? maybe? possibly? nevermined, didn't think so.

http://membres.lycos.fr/barluz/oy_vey.jpg

gucci is different because he says aye instead of ayyyyyy

that's OJ da Juiceman, Gucci is different because he says iiiieeeeyyyeeeaaaaaaahhh instead of yeah

can iiiieeeeyyyeeeaaaaaaahhh just

maybe you can see the disconnect between people who think Gucci is "doing something different" and those that don't? maybe? possibly? nevermined, didn't think so.

― some dude, Friday, September 25, 2009 3:08 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no. i dont think those ppl are right, or that they have to be TRUE BELIEVERS -- i think its self-evident.

i can think of about a dozen things (in terms of lyrics, music, vocals, aesthetics, output, career choices) that you could reasonably say he does well or better than anyone else. i can't think of a single thing he's the first or only person to do. he epitomizes his scene/era much more than he's any kind of exceptional or "different" figure.

'first or only' person, no, but i dont know anyone who claimed that. doing something different, yes hes synthesized a lot of difft things (lyrics, music, vocals, aesthetics, output, career choices) in a way no one else had.

but please, tell me all these rappers who are supposedly rapping like gucci before gucci? in terms of 'aesthetics'?

technically every bandwagon-jumping me too in the music business is a unique synthesis of familiar elements that hadn't been combined in just that exact way before. maybe GM influenced his peers more than they influenced him, but "different" is just an odd word to hang your hat on considering how many traits he shares with a bazillion other guys in Atlanta.

name one rapper who sounded like gucci before gucci

no. i dont think those ppl are right, or that they have to be TRUE BELIEVERS -- i think its self-evident.

as self-evident as it is with cassie and taylor swift, which was rtc's point

i disagree that cassie is comparable to gucci mane. for one thing, gucci is one of the biggest rappers in the country, while cassie is remembered as that chick with that one song who showed her cooch on the internets

sorry you're right noone has ever sounded like he always has a headcold before quite like Gucci Mane

that's one for you, bobby boy ::flips over number on scoreboard::

deej it's not about popularity hence rtc picking three artists of wildly varying success!!!

did we not cover this 12 hours ago? the taylor swift diversion upthread?

it takes a lil more MAGICKING UP for folks to see cassie's hidden musical qualities. & taylor swift has the whole thing where its, yknow, targeting high school kids, & is really really good music to a certain cross-section of ppl who are living in that milieu -- it takes a lil more work to explain that appeal out of that demographic, understandably i think. while gucci is big with rap fans, hugely popular, & the idea that we're putting in all this extra work to justify an artist who doesnt live up to the 'hype' is kinda bullshit imo?

BLACK ROB DICK RIDING DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR "LOGIC"

-- ,, (...), February 17th, 2006.

sorry that was a blatantly unfair comparison, Gucci Mane is way more popular than Black Rob

sorry you're right noone has ever sounded like he always has a headcold before quite like Gucci Mane

― some dude, Friday, September 25, 2009 8:07 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes thats the entire extent of his appeal that has never been done before, no one likes to recite his lyrics or likes his hooks or finds his rhyme patterns refreshingly different, its just yet another rapper in a long line of rappers who sound exactly alike, thus al shipley's repping for ebony eyez back in 2004 (zing copyright ethan p)

btw everyone fun trivia nugget 3 of the 4 uses of the word "magicking" in the history of ilx are by deej on this thread

I didn't say he's not good at what he does, I'm just saying his unique qualities, voice aside, are not hugely obvious to the casual listener, and if your main hook here is that he's a maverick original from outside the beltway it's gonna be a hard sell.

magicking was copyright rtc (i think?) in some thread on the appeal of cassie

i'm sure gucci is as popular as you say, and i'm a fan myself, but it's no use pretending he doesn't have detractors who can't see any worth in what he does! but again it's not about their success/lack of, it's about their aesthetic, and specifically how they come across on first listen to someone not predispositioned to them who is maybe only listening casually. that person would hear

- a chick with a weak voice singing static songs without big hooks
- a rapper whose voice isn't particularly smooth or inherently pleasurable acting stupid
- clean-cut teenage girl singing about romeo & juliet and princesses and princes

basically how all of them come across belies how talented and distinctive they really are.

ebony eyez was great!

I didn't say he's not good at what he does, I'm just saying his unique qualities, voice aside, are not hugely obvious to the casual listener, and if your main hook here is that he's a maverick original from outside the beltway it's gonna be a hard sell.

― some dude, Friday, September 25, 2009 8:16 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

isnt this true of basically every big rap figure in history? didnt they say this about dre, tupac, master p, about cash money, "just that same old bling bling corny shit i listen to real rap like ghostface" since forever?

*not predispositioned to like them
*how all of them come across at first glance

xp

luckily for us, dizzee rascal transcends that quality of 'sounding like he is an artist working within a genre'?

yay, now we're onto the "history will vindicate me" portion of the program

xpost

ok, you're being deliberately obtuse now and i am bored. goodnight!

xp

uhhh hey shipley im not looking for vindication -- gucci's already one of the biggest stories in rap, like him or not its irrelevent -- see thats the thing about 'popularity' here ...

I don't think he's being that obtuse purely by choice, tbh. (xpost)

really the only reason i'm here is most of the people who'd have this much fun running you around in circles are offline or banned

ok one last go

& taylor swift has the whole thing where its, yknow, targeting high school kids, & is really really good music to a certain cross-section of ppl who are living in that milieu

replace "taylor swift" with "gucci mane" and "high school kids" with "(a certain kind of) rap fan" and THERE U GO

i literally cannot believe so much of this thread has been devoted to explaining rtc's perfectly comprehensible aside

lex the difference is there are like 0 high school kids on ilx and many ppl who listen to rap music.

it's ok, the pre-approved list of artists that can be mentioned in the same sentence will be handed down soon so that this will never happen again.

hey somedude how about you argue with things ive actually said instead of condescendingly misreading me

yeah the quadruple-platinum singer is so clearly more of a niche concern than the rapper whose listenership is still best measured by datpiff.com hit counts

you're picking fights that don't exist, what's the point in engaging with them seriously? i'd rather be an asshole than a volunteer strawman!

yes thats why high school musical was so big among critics

xp

lol @ you bringing up billboard counts in 2009 as if that backs up anything tho

i dont see whats so hard to understand about my objection to what rtc said, frankly. he referred to these artists as ones that the 'casual listener' needs to be 99% invested in to 'get' their appeal. i said i disagree, that gucci has a huge crossover appeal outside of most imaginable demo's of 'casual listeners' that are going to engage with pop music on any level (i mean, we can still assume that rap = pop music, right?). then i amended to correct for the uk / us divide.

i dont think im arguing w/ strawmen or saying anything totally ridiculous here.

lol @ you thinking there's a zing that can "magick" you into not looking like a psycho chasing a white whale on this thread

lol @ you not reading my last post?

there's no greater truth you're getting to the meat of, you just got trolled once into trolling everyone else 400 times

anyone else want to give deej a big hug

no, i don't want want to get gucci goo on me

letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane
letz talk abt gucci mane

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

1st off, it took me a crazy amount of time to re-find this thread. there are literally like 40 threads on dizzee rascal on ilx.

2ndly, I think i was really misunderstood in this thread, which was probably largely my fault & a problem with my inability to write w/ the clarity that I wish i could on a message board. one reason i sorta reject the 'best music crit is in comment sections and message boards!' type arguments some folks have suggested recently, even if its for rather selfish reasons. im sure anyone who has seen me write on ilx for a couple years knows im not always all that great at explaining myself clearly .... i think taking time to, yknow, think about how im expressing something is hard & makes boarding less fun/easy to do while drinking.

BUT in all seriousness while I might have come across here like Im overreacting I think I had a legit point so I'm going to try to clarify it in a way that, at the least, makes ppl think im less being crazy & more just rude for interrupting ILX's 43rd thread about Dizzee Rascal. I also am trying to express why I think this MATTERS & that im not making a mountain out of a molehill for arguing this.

OK so: I don't think it's very fair to say that I'm overreacting simply because I responded to rtc's "off handed" tossed-off aside. Anyone who pays attention to rtc's writing on ilx (& shipley should certainly be aware of this) knows that he often will disparage/deconstruct/take apart an entire thesis or assumed/received wisdom, make pretty discursively significant statements in 'tossed off asides'. Thats why hes one of my favorite writers on ILX -- he has a way of writing that, while often inscrutable, is fun to puzzle over & work out bcuz he rarely equivocates & is unafraid of demolishing entire narratives/arguments with one simple 'tossed off' aside or comment. Taking issue with rtc's parenthetical aside (even and ESPECIALLY in a thread about another subject) is pretty much part & parcel with engaging him in any kind of discourse -- his entire argument hinges on the 'asides' he drops.

In this particular case, I read rtc this way: he was suggesting that, much like Cassie and Taylor Swift, there is a critical 'fan club' for Gucci Mane that is gonna be pretty useless in trying to convince a wider critical audience of his appeal (on ilx but also more broadly) because his appeal is inherently limited to an already-converted (or inevitably converted, limited) audience of people who are likely to be sympathetic to his style of music anyway, that his audience (based on the style & aesthetic choices he's made) limits his audience to people who are already going to buy into certain rules of what makes 'good music'. 99% converted before they even hear a song.

I see what he means with Cassie, certainly. Taylor Swift is a little more complicated, but ultimately her limitations are those of, like, early backstreet boys or nsync records; they are targeting a limited (though large) audience that isn't likely to appeal outside, a kind of vast hermetically-contained audience that requires (whether fairly or not) a conscious, "i'm-an-adult-now" artistic BREAK from their old style of doing records. Taylor Swift might write, like SFJ says, about love and heartbreak with a lot of emotional maturity. But she's still writing songs about being 15 years old, which, aside from a few critics who are really appreciative of her talents (the '99%' thing) isn't going to have a broader appeal.

I took this kind of personally for a couple reasons. The first is that it directly contradicts my main argument about why gucci is an important rapper, and what separates him from other feted rappers right now. What interests me about Gucci as a rapper is that he really seems to contain a lot of unresolved tensions that exist in rap as a whole -- the balance between 'pop' & 'weird,' between 'pop' and lyrical density/skill/technique, between being a rapper-as-character, rapper-as-lyricist, rapper-as-songwriter. When a Gucci track leaks, I find that I'm never really sure where it's going to land in these varying spectrums. Songs like "Overboard" and "Photoshoot" don't demand u appreciate his 'great lyricism' (although both have some elements of that). They're great pop songs that don't feel like they're adhering to inter-genre RULES about what makes good music. They're funny, they have really catchy hooks, and they're the reason he's transcended (in my mind & the minds of other rap fans who think he's the most important/interesting rapper out right now -- and there are a lot of people who treat him this way, even if the 'rap analyst' in most of them treat him like just-a-fun-rapper who isn't on jay or wayne's level yet. Think Jay-Z circa vol. 2 or 3, when no one would have said he was the best, but most rap fans put him in the center of their worlds anyway).

A better example for rtc to mention would have been Lil Boosie, I think, who I love, but who I never ever expect to cross over. I know the basic boundaries & have pretty set expectations about what a Boosie track is going to sound like before I even hear it; he does a few styles really really well, but I know exactly how he's going to do those things every time. There's no surprise there; barring a radical change (like Taylor Swift would have to make, or like Justin timberlake did) post-prison, he's reached the limits of his audience's potential, demographically, in a way that I don't see changing. Gucci right now is so exciting to me because it genuinely feels like we haven't reached the limits of possibility with him, that he's able to push the limits of what his audience expects without losing them. It's a really hard thing to do!

The other reason I took rtc's comment personally is because I think the Gucci stans he's talking about are basically me and jordan. So I don't know why it would be expected that I wouldn't take it personally. Who else is he talking about? certainly no one else on ilx, & in the wider critical sphere, other than the vague buzz of "this guy is a big story cuz he's popular" going on in the wider rap press, its only, like, noz & brandon soderberg who even talk about this dude's actual music. I'm not saying this out of self-aggrandizement. I'm just trying to explain why I feel pretty defensive about it. I think that I let that get wrapped up in my ideological disagreement w/ what i interpret as rtc's position, which I apologize for.

But I really don't think it was particularly weird of me to object to it. I think fundamentally he's misinterpreted what is going on w/ gucci's music right now. I don't know that he'll ever be as big as lil wanye, but musically, he's playing with the same kind of tensions between different audiences, aesthetics, and approaches to rap music vs. pop music vs. real heads vs. other real heads vs. real g's vs. etc etc etc in a way that is anything but predictable and anything but limiting. he's blown up so quickly in the last year or two precisely because of this.

Anyway, zing me for being a gucci stan & thats cool & i totally deserve it for how sloppy my posting in here was, but i wanted to clear up that i wasnt just being reactive and crazy & trolling or whatever

i need to correct this paragraph:

I see what he means with Cassie, certainly. Taylor Swift is a little more complicated, but ultimately her limitations are those of, like, early backstreet boys or nsync records; they are targeting a limited (though large) audience that isn't likely to appeal outside, a kind of vast hermetically-contained audience that requires (whether fairly or not) a conscious, "i'm-an-adult-now" artistic BREAK from their old style of doing records in order to be freed of rtc's '99%-there' fanbase. Taylor Swift might write, like SFJ says, about love and heartbreak with a lot of emotional maturity. But she's still writing songs about being 15 years old, which, aside from a few critics who are really appreciative of her talents (the '99%' thing) isn't going to have a broader appeal to, say, the people who came around to timberlake on 'cry me a river' for example.

The conflation doesn't seem egregious to me because in Australia the appreciation of Southern rap is much more ghettoised than the appreciation of teenpop, and perhaps about equal with country - for rap to move beyond the "targeting a limited (though large) audience that isn't likely to appeal outside, a kind of vast hermetically-contained audience" phase requires some kind of Outkast/Jay-Z/Kanye style pop-culture crossover.

I think the question would be: could we imagine an audience that isn't already really into Southern rap really falling in love with Gucci?

I find it hard to, but I'm influenced by a context in which not even Lil Wayne would really be considered a "crossover" artist, so I don't trust my gut assessment.

NB. note could we imagine an audience... - very easy to imagine individual listeners for whom Gucci is their first major southern rap love.

yah i mean i did try to say upthread that I do think it was a problem of us -> uk divide, and in that situation i dont think rtc is wrong -- dizzee is apparently still a star in the uk, which he's never been here.

But yeah, here in the states the Gucci comparison is closest to lil wayne, i think, who became a jay-z/outkast/kanye style crossover artist in the past couple years -- one of the things wayne did (and gucci does) is retain a kind of hood zeitgeist quality while crossing over ... like, lollipop & a millie were huge rap anthems that crossed over while still feeling like actual street rap

i still think that jeezy is a much more apt comparison in terms of commercial prospects & indicators than wayne

didn't mean to derail from your larger points, sorry

jeezy & wayne might be, like, outliers & gucci sorta balances between the two -- thats a good point though --

outliers is the wrong word -- poles ? i dont know

yes i would say he's a balance between the two - jeezy would never make a "weird" or a "wonderful" etc etc but i think gucci would have much more of a shot of breaking through with a "go crazy" or "and then what" style track than "lollipop". wayne is such a hard person to compare people to because of how long his career was. gucci is largely an unknown voice & character to pop radio whereas wayne had hits for years and then jumped on a punch of huge r&b tracks before "lollipop" hit. wayne & gucci comparison makes sense in terms of pure rapping & how they are coming up critically on the internet but gucci's at a way different point in his career than wayne. wayne's career will probably never be replicated.

back to rtc's larger point, i think the whole aside kind of set up this massive clusterfuck because cassie, taylor, gucci & dizzee are kind of incomparable in this context - it was naturally going to lead to so many out-of-context points & pedantic nitpicking

I don't think it's very fair to say that I'm overreacting simply because I responded to rtc's "off handed" tossed-off aside. Anyone who pays attention to rtc's writing on ilx (& shipley should certainly be aware of this) knows that he often will disparage/deconstruct/take apart an entire thesis or assumed/received wisdom, make pretty discursively significant statements in 'tossed off asides'. Thats why hes one of my favorite writers on ILX -- he has a way of writing that, while often inscrutable, is fun to puzzle over & work out bcuz he rarely equivocates & is unafraid of demolishing entire narratives/arguments with one simple 'tossed off' aside or comment. Taking issue with rtc's parenthetical aside (even and ESPECIALLY in a thread about another subject) is pretty much part & parcel with engaging him in any kind of discourse -- his entire argument hinges on the 'asides' he drops.

nothing about this is wrong except I disagree with the conclusion that that makes it okay to throw a totally predictable shitfit that even the Taylor Swift fans didn't take the bait for

^otm, taylor swift was 100x more out of place in that trio

I mean if your opponent deals in easter egg asides and you respond with an earnest multi-post derailment, you come off like a bore regardless of who's wrong and who's right.

k3vin k3ller is 100% more out of place in this convo

I mean if your opponent deals in easter egg asides and you respond with an earnest multi-post derailment, you come off like a bore regardless of who's wrong and who's right.

― guccislamic deejihad (some dude), Sunday, September 27, 2009 9:44 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

um, i dont think he intends his asides to be trolling jokes (primarily) -- i think he wants them to be engaged with / taken seriously

but some dude im very sorry i interrupted a discussion about dizzee rascal that you were apparently so invested in

oh no i've wanted to ruin a dizzee rascal ilm thread for years and years -- thank you for allowing me to vicariously fulfill a longtime dream

i just went from feeling embarrassed for you to wanting to help you dig yourself deeper after you showed an amazing lack of self-consciousness about it

you kind of crossed the line from funnily egging deej on to actively being an asshole

caring about & being invested in stuff is actually kind of fun imo even if it can be occasionally embarrassing -- you should try it sometime

j - i admitted i was being an asshole way in the middle of it! i mean that's a given.

d - i appreciate the whole marianne dashwood thing you've got going on where you feel sorry for me for not feeling passion about music so deeply that i feel the need to run to artists' defense, really i appreciate it. maybe i'm dead inside or something.

I think if you're going to attack someone's tossed-off asides, you should ask them to clarify in order to make sure you're attacking the argument you think you're attacking.

Also, I'm wondering if you are seeing the inherent contradiction in the position "Gucci Mane is not the type of artist who has a self-selecting fanbase because he is hugely popular even though no one ever talks about him except for me".

tbh i'm more worried that deej obviously views cassie and taylor swift fans w/such disdain that he's so offended by being lumped in with them - rtc's aside wasn't even a value judgment on any of the artists, i'm pretty sure that of those three he's most into cassie.

fwiw i basically agree w/deej about what gucci's doing but this was nowhere near as immediately apparent to me as it was with eg young dro and nicki minaj (who i cite merely as examples of the rappers i've jammed most recently)

meanwhile on the dizzee rascal album, "road rage" and "dirtee cash" and "bad behaviour" alone are worth the price of entry

BEEP BEEP COMING THROUGH!

Yeah, I love "Dirtee Cash," "Holiday," and "Bad Behaviour" unreservedly.

MOVE OVER YEAH YOU

its basically old school re-licked but i love it
YOU DONT WANNA SEE ROAD RAGE
NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

MIND OUT
IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO ME YOU'LL FIND OUT
I DON'T INDICATE I JUST SWING ABOUT

the NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH is the best bit
well that and BEEP BEEP

cage>>>

I think if you're going to attack someone's tossed-off asides, you should ask them to clarify in order to make sure you're attacking the argument you think you're attacking.

Also, I'm wondering if you are seeing the inherent contradiction in the position "Gucci Mane is not the type of artist who has a self-selecting fanbase because he is hugely popular even though no one ever talks about him except for me".

― sturdy, ultra-light, under-the-pants moneybelt (HI DERE), Monday, September 28, 2009 7:45 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

1) well tbf i did say that i wasnt sure i totally understood him & asked him to clarify

2) theres no contradiction -- theres a difference between "talking about as a critical phenomenon" vs "hugely popular" dan.

DIZZEE AND LILY TO CO-HEADLINE
Dizzee Rascal and Lily Allen will co-headline a show at London's O2 Arena next year, it has been announced. Tickets for the show, which will take place on 7 Mar, will go on sale on Friday at 9am

id like to see wannabe released as a single in honor of this momentous occasion^^

I like 'Road Rage' and 'Leisure' a lot. 'Dirtee Cash' is OK but not really an improvement on the original - it loses as much as it gains but fun enough. Kinda eeh otherwise tho nothing downright terrible.

oh yeah the Tiesto track is surprisingly dece too

id like to see wannabe released as a single in honor of this momentous occasion^^

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:31 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

momentous like molotov-ribbentrop.

"OK but not really an improvement on the original"

yeah, its a bit pointles overall. if he had remixed the beat it might have been better. as it is its almost diddy-ish.

holiday lyrics are awful

NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW MOVE OVER
NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW MOVE OVER
NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW MOVE OVER
NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW MOVE OVER

his worst yet.

maybe i should give it another listen but i havent really been impelled to.

I think it's his worst yet as well but the best bits and even the not-quite-the-best bits are still great.

Repping for 'Chillin' With The Man Dem' right now. "E3 Bow, playing Pro-Evo..."

its almost his worst. i cant make my mind up. i like the fact the lyrics are so focused on this, and that theres a lot of range in terms of the songs, but i find it hard to dislike dizzee even when hes doing (succesfully) calculated crossover pap like this. and i mean, cant tek no more is kinda corny but its prob his best song in terms of trying to say something conscious. i mean, if you want an example of someone going for 'middle england' or whatever and totally nailing it without really sounding like theyve totally neutered themselves then i think this is kinda it.

i find it hard to dislike dizzee even when hes doing (succesfully) calculated crossover pap like this.

i agree and i quite like the singles on this album but i think he got the mix of 'angry grime kid' and 'crossover pap' just right on 'maths and english'. i guess what i really like about Dizzee isnt really represented on the new one.

road rage kinda fills that void for me. the one produced by footsie (leisure) is the nearest this one gets to old dizzee but its not really the greatest song on here. do love bad behaviour on this too. still really hate bonkers but i have a soft spot for holiday, until calvin h starts singing anyway.

coda of holiday is also too short (should have been fleshed out) but seriously great...

it's brill!!

― r|t|c

^^^ yeah!!!

look at dizz on national telly right now, with a full orchestra, doing 'brand new day' and 'jezebel', in 2009. are you unmoved?

haha now he's doing 'stand up tall' over 'smells like teen spirit'.

Where can I watch this????

Yeah Dizzee as proper nationally famous, household name pop star really does feel like a victory and a vindication against every pissy "lol grime" type post over the years to boot.

i watched it as a big fan, pleased to see hes come so so so far, having an orchestra actually pluck those strings notes on jezebel - weird but nice to see those old grime beats made into elec proms fare. brand new day in particular sounded ace (made me think of bjork actually, seeing it brought to life like that, and made me wonder what wd have happened if dizzee didnt go so pop, could he have maybe become a mainstream but 'fringe' sounding artist like someone like afx, bjork etc?). he didnt seem totally sure/comfortable about doing the older material i thought. winced when he did imagine - such shit lyrics. fucking hated the stand up tall mashup too.

show was enjoyable overall but it was the type of sound/show youd expect from basement jaxx/BEP. plus all the electronic side of his beats gets left to the side with this band. which is cool in a way, but id love it if dizzee had a pet shop boys/kraftwerk type set up instead lol.

Yeah that other bloke that no one ever mentions could just stand motionless and expressionless behind a bank of machinery while Dizzee capers around in a pointy hat/robot suit.

that other bloke that no one ever mentions

?

well i didnt mean actually get chris (is that his name?) from the psb to back dizzee. tho, sayin that, getting cage to wear a pointy hat and stand still for an hour playing with some laptops behind dizzee would be fun. yknow, fuck around with the beats and that sort of thing rather than make it sound like a band. cannot imagine what i luv u or stop dat would sound like with this band.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/3517464845_bb645438a7.jpg

cage is the guy in the middle just fyi

one good thing about the band though is = no semtex

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nj773/Electric_Proms_2009_Dizzee_Rascal/

That Roundhouse gig looked so much fun. Bonkers sounds weirdly so much better with twangy country slide guitars. Also Brand New Day = <3 <3 <3

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2241126&mesg_id=2241126&page=

links that should work for Americans

Haha OMG that version of Imagine is ridiculously gorgeous in the first half and then just plain ridiculous in the second half.

aagh this isn't on iplayer any more!! and those youtube links are down!

>:-(

youll be fine.

this world discriminates so much against the disorganised and the tardy

"Road Rage" is like the most fun DR song I've heard in years