Michael Jackson: HIStory - Past, Present And Future: Book 1 Poll

well it's scream isn't it?

ah ah aaaah aaahaaahaah aaaha aaaaaaaah
oo ooo ooooo ooohoohoohooh oooooooo

The singles from this are all very good. I voted for the anti-Semetic one mostly because it was on the radio when I drove into work today. I still can't believe it's a Michael Jackson song (for years I was making a tortured "he must be talking about namecalling there" argument because that level blatant, unmasked hate coming out of Michael's mouth is wholly at odds with the entire media image he put forward for the rest of his career).

Yes it's waaaay "Scream" if only for Janet poking fun at her evening news-surfing Rhythm Nation self. But there's a surprising lack of filler here. I'll take the vocal fox chase in the second verse of "This Time Around" over anything on Bad. In fact, same goes for the scabrous bitch slap "D.S.," the Bacharachy pastoral "Earth Song," and Michael pissed at the supermarket on "Tabloid Junkie." And the title track is prog at its bitterest.

uh yeah "Smooth Criminal" and "The Way You Make Me Feel" alone are better than everything on this, come on

I love They Don't Care About Us.

Yeah, it's easily the best MJ song of the 90s. Too bad about the choice of lyrics.

"Remember The Time" and "Who Is It?" were also MJ songs of the 90s, both of which are better than "They Don't Care About Us".

Actually, if you can track down the Michael Jackson/Global Communication mashup done by Matt Tuozzo back around 2000, you will gain a much stronger appreciation for "Remember The Time".

Great MJ songs from the nineties: "Jam," "Can't Get Away From Her," "Who Is It," "In The Closet," "Morphine," "Dangerous," "Scream," "Remember The Time," "Blood on the Dance Floor."

'remember the time' is one of my favourite ever MJ tracks. the video <3

i like 'Black Or White', maybe 'Give In To Me', also 'Why' ft. 3T

uh yeah "Smooth Criminal" and "The Way You Make Me Feel" alone are better than everything on this, come on

I'll take "Scream" and "This Time Around" over those any day. Also, "Smooth Criminal" has been usurped by one of my all-time favorite mashups, Bitter Sound Foundation: "Why Does Michael Hurt?"

Scream is deadly. Am I right in thinking that the video still holds the title for most expensive ever? Whatever, the money is all there on the screen. Ass-kicking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_music_videos

Yes, but not for lack of trying!

i was sure that 'come with me' with godzilla tie-in had overtaken it?

MC Hammer "Too Legit to Quit" MC Hammer (producer) November, 1991 $2.5 million +

I remember this as just concert/soundstage-type footage.

you obviously didn't see the 9 minute version with jim belushi and a fire throwing james brown

Voting "Money," at the very least so it doesn't get a goose egg.

voting Strangers in Moscow. always hated Scream. They Don't Care About Us is a great song, had never read about it's controversy.

TOM SNEDDON IS A COLD MAAAAAN

Surely Stranger in Moscow has to get some love?

I have such a huge soft spot for 'You are not Alone.' Not the video tho.

so I've started to listen to this over the last few days. far from being as horrible as I thought yet far from being great. I don't love anything here but some some nice things here and there.

"scream", "don't care" and "earth song" still don't work for me.
"childhood"'s lyrics are so openly autobiographical it's creepy.
"not alone" is an ok r-kelly ballad but much too long with the neverending key changes.
I really like the heavy beat in the intro of "history". the completely different sound/production between the verses and the chorus is... weird. can't say if I like that or not for now.
"come together" is horrible (but mostly because I hate the original).
"stranger in moscow" might be the best track but I have a soft spot for "smile" which is very sweet and has a sinatra/old school feeling plus a positive and joyful track is quite rare in MJ's output, especially after "thriller"...

overall, some weird/interesting production ideas, fast/hard tracks still don't do it for me (and they haven't since "bad", basically, mostly because I don't like the drum sounds and beats he uses) but mostly, a real lack of good/great songwriting.

I voted "Stranger in Moscow." I do think "They Don't Care About Us" is a good song excepting the obvious, but I always liked the melody of "Moscow" (the "how does it feel, how does it feel?" in particular) a lot.

"remember the time" trumps everything listed here exponentially IMHO

listened to "blood on the dancefloor" yesterday and got totally distracted from what I was working on not to mention creeped out, especially by "morphine" when he chants about "demerol". sounds like a cry for help, in retrospect. have to say I don't think the songs/performances on BOTDF come close to the teddy riley tracks on dangerous. michael doesn't seem to have made his peace with pop's shift from melody to rhythm-over-all.

working up the nerve to play indestructible

"Stranger in Moscow" every time but nowadays I quite enjoy "Earth Song" too.

"stranger in moscow" has really nice melodies indeed, including the "how does it feel" part, and I really like the intro build up.
"earth song" is a bit boring and overlong, for me.
I'm not sure I'm ready to handle "blood on the dancefloor". It really seems awful to me (but that's what I was thinking about history, so...).

a lot of his 90s stuff is better than i thought it would be/remembered it being, but its still not amazing. a few gems here and there but a lot of that industrial kinda production doesnt do much for me, and its not dated very well. i know its tired to say 'what if he kept working with quincy jones' but i do still wonder. the stuff they did together had more clarity and even on bad, just seemed more refined (his later collaborators didnt seem to have as good an idea of how to mix R&B with pop as q). the songwritings still more than solid, he still had a good grasp of pop structure, it wasnt like prince where it became severely hit and miss, but the melodies werent as strong anymore. i think i like the ballads best from his latter period (apart from rock my world, i only ever listened to butterflies - maybe his last great song). a lot of the faster/harder stuff was just too jerky/overcooked/busy. live instrumentation dissapearing from mainstream black pop didnt do him many favours.

"I have such a huge soft spot for 'You are not Alone.' Not the video tho."

i feel the same way but for pretty much every video post-88.

michael doesn't seem to have made his peace with pop's shift from melody to rhythm-over-all.

Not even on, as you pointed out, "Morphine"?

thats wrong anyway - a lot of his singing became much more rhythmic than melodic if you listen to half of the late 90s/early 00s stuff.

I always liked They Don't Care About Us, it's like his version of Flowers of Romance, but how did they ever even let him get away with those lyrics? Didn't somebody at the studio say "that's not a good idea"...

xxpost

no i thought "morphine" and others featured more trad-sounding "jacksonian" melodic segments inserted into the mix w/o being fully integrated

Funny you would say that Jackson never made his peace over pop's shift from melody to rhythm since you could argue he populiarized it with "Don't Stop TIl You Get Enough."

I'm voting for "Stranger in Moscow" because it contains my favorite misheard lyric. For quite some time I thought Jackson was singing "stranger in my skull" instead of the "stranger in Moscow."

O_O

daaaaamn, that might even be creepier

"Stranger In Moscow" obv.

This album is not at all bad, but also obviously not up there with the glory of his first three Epic albums.

Btw. gotta love the production on "Tabloid Junkie".

eh, regarding misheard lyrics of his, for a looooong time, I thought he said "dance you into bed" instead of "dance you into day" in "rock with you". I must say I still prefer my version !

"Stranger in Moscow," his last really really good song.

the one with biggie

jk voted for stranger

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

this album really wheezes out kinda pathetically, doesn't it? Things are going very well through "Come Together", "You Are Not Alone" is perfectly decent (though the remix on Blood on the Dancefloor is better), then things get weird with "Tabloid Junkie" and fizzle completely at "History". I guess I'm he glad he mostly saved the syrupy ballads until the end---although they're unsettling ballads, not sweet-syrupy, more like the kind of syrup you get your foot stuck in in Candy Land.

This is one of those albums where the gulf between the awesome and not-awesome is like an abyss.

At the bottom of the abyss are Marlon Brando and Chuckles, mouths open.

the five top-placing songs on this poll are all v. good though

really could just take the top 3 and run

the five top-placing songs on this poll are all v. good though

Not "They Don't Care About Us", no. Not too keen on "Scream" ether, even though the production on it is cool.

Oh my god Geir you are so wrong. 'They Don't Care About Us' is an insanely good song in every single respect.

Love the results of this poll. '2 Bad' is brilliant but was probably the second or third choice of a load of people.

God, this is such an angry and, in places, depressing record.

"Strangers in Moscow" = gorgeous.

*Stranger

Yeah, it's without a doubt the best song on here for me.

'Childhood' is a bit of a grim listen.

Anyway, why was this put out with a greatest hits collection attached? Were Sony worried that the LP would tank without the added bonus of the hits?

This era of UK chart success fascinates me.

I did not expect an otm darraghmac first response when I clicked on this thread

I thought the extra disc was MJ's idea? Perhaps suspecting that it otherwise would only sell like...5 million otherwise

"Strangers in Moscow" is my favorite song on here by a mile, maybe my favorite MJ tune full stop. Plus it's got that bizarre Sonic 3 connection to it.

God, this is such an angry and, in places, depressing record.

no kidding. I never would have believed as a kid that the words "stop fucking with me" and "I'm taking no shit" would appear on a Michael Jackson album, although given the timeframe, not at all surprising.

so many wonderful moments, though definitely an uneven album. "Scream" is still a favorite of mine.

"Strangers in Moscow" = gorgeous.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:06 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I probably prefer the Book 1 disc here to Invincible by a fairly wide margin, even with its missteps

I seem to remember Invincible doing very little here... I couldn't name a single track off the record at this point!

"You Rocked My World" was the lead single, but other than that it was mostly known for its ballads.

it starts out p good but just gets bogged down in blandness.

Thats all on u wins, all on u

Giving this another spin today because for some reason I felt like hearing 'Stranger in Moscow' (which at this stage is my favourite thing he ever did) and I decided to flick through the booklet that comes with the CD edition... it's quite, uh, something!

I remember buying this album on its release date and little else about it.

One thing that still sticks out was being absolutely stunned and totally geeked that he had gotten the Notorious B.I.G. to rap on it. I just thought that was the coolest thing ever.

'Stranger in Moscow' has obviously become the highlight over time.

I don't remember anything about the booklet except for thinking that the printed lyrics to 'D.S.' didn't match up with what he actually singing.

I decided to flick through the booklet that comes with the CD edition... it's quite, uh, something!

image of the kid with the bandaged head for some reason really seared itself in my memory

Yeah, there's that, and the picture of Jacko kissing that kids head etc.

But also, the crowd photos and pictures of big banners saying "King of Pop", details of virtually every award the guy has won, celebrity testimonies, and instead of doing a long thank you list and then signing his name at the end, each "thank you" has "love, MJ" or "Michael Jackson" at the end...

Also, all the "this is dedicated to all the children of the world" stuff.

When you combine the packaging with the lyrical content of the tracks, factor in the greatest hits and think about what was happening at the time, the whole package is just...

I never took it as anything other than a big PR move. Even at fourteen, it was really obvious to me.

There's big PR move and there's ridiculously OTT PR moves!

*moves

Like, it's part "remember how successful I was/am?", part "I'm a good guy, and here's some words from my celebrity friends to prove it", part "heal the world", part "I'm still the King of Pop, dammit!" and part "fuck you!"

"and I'm a stranger in Moscow."

I'm sure the 'Come Together' cover is only there to make up the numbers - it's an old recording from the '80s and feels like an exercise in "might as well cover this since I own the publishing for it anyway" - he fucks up the words, too.

yeah there is no need for the "come together" cover; it's taken from moonwalker iirc

i put together a sequence of my favorite tracks from history and blood on the dance floor and it's the album i wish he had put out

Yeah, Blood on the Dancefloor has some really underrated stuff on it!

Wasn't there a story about how MJ wanted Bad to sell twice as many copies as Thriller? Kinda puts his whole career into perspective, that...

I think if you're going to even try to follow-up Thriller, then Bad was probably the best outcome possible.

I think among the things lacking in Bad (leaving the quality of the songs aside) are some joy and smooth, exhilarating moments that his best work has imo.
With the exception of "Liberian Girl" for the smoothness... and "Just good friends" for the fun (one of the reasons I like that song although it's not really good).
so you're only left with paranoid anger.

It's not an issue for me, but I get the impression that many don't get on board with the more "programmed" nature of Bad. Off the Wall and Thriller were both meticulously produced but were more organic.

I'm not sure it's the "programmed" aspect that I like less since there are lots of "programmed" records which sound I love.
But clearly, I much prefer the choices made about the "sound" for OTW and Thriller (these two records simply sound fantastic).
Whereas from Bad and on, the music sounds more metallic and thin. and that was a choice he made, obviously.

As for the joy/smooth moments, there's a recent example that struck me : when they released the new version of "Love Never Felt So Good", I realized that one of the reasons I enjoyed that song so much was because it reminded me of how nice and fun MJ could sound (of course it was written/recorded circa 84... but the instrumentation was all new).

plus, you can barely hear the necromancy!

i put together a sequence of my favorite tracks from history and blood on the dance floor and it's the album i wish he had put out

did you by any chance do this on spotify?

^^^^^ this

I think among the things lacking in Bad (leaving the quality of the songs aside) are some joy and smooth, exhilarating moments that his best work has imo.
With the exception of "Liberian Girl" for the smoothness... and "Just good friends" for the fun (one of the reasons I like that song although it's not really good).
so you're only left with paranoid anger.

"The Way You Make Me Feel"? "Another Part of Me"?

hum. I see how you could consider these songs but to me, they're not joyful/smooth like most things on OTW or "baby be mine", "PYT"...

but I understand that it's a totally subjective feeling.

Yeah, 'The Way You Make Me Feel' is pretty joyful, I think!

Stranger In Moscow is up there with Human Nature for me. def Top 5.

Probably his best '90s song.

can't think of one remotely close

lol My 2nd favorite is probably "Give In To Me" but "Stranger In Moscow" is one the the alltime greats.

"who is it" is his best '90s song and his best song

"stranger" is up there though

"Who Is It" is so good.

oh wait, I forgot about Dangerous, lol

Apparently, 'Stranger in Moscow' made it to #4 in the UK singles chart, but other than a couple of times on MTV Europe I can't remember it ever getting any airplay.

Couldn't help but notice that 'In The Closet' didn't make it onto the HIStory greatest hits...

Y'know, for a song that has always made very little impression on me beyond "oh, Jackson is singing about the '93 allegations", I haven't been able to get the chorus to 'Money' out of my head for the last couple of hours.

I got a weekend's work through my local Job Centre, selling merch at the Wembley History tour dates. Amazing show. We spent the concert walking through the crowds, selling outrageously overpriced chintz. The top seller was a Michael Jackson glove-on-a-stick, doing a peace sign. If you turned it on, there was a strobe light effect in the fingers, so you could wave it in the air during Earth Song. I sold one to Jo Whiley!

D'ya remember how much "live" singing went on at those shows? I heard that MJ had a tendency to mime for a portion of his shows.

im sure he did for some, but not all of it. watch the "This Is It" documentary on his final tour for solid evidence he wasn't just a drugged up robot puppet they pushed out on stage. there is an amazing improv version of "Beat It" that is just him singing w a drummer and bass player.

I can't remember him mimimg but the show was super-production-intensive and choreographed - I think he flew around in a jetpack at some point??

yes the end of the Bucharest concert for the Dangerous tour. nobody can really top that for spectacle.

Yeah, Michael Jackson was pretty much the definition of "superproductionintensive" - the guy liked to throw the chequebook at pretty much everything he did: his music, his videos, his stage productions. Madonna and Prince did production intensive and chereographed shows too, but neither of them did "big budget" like Michael Jackson, who seemed to want to take everything to the most ludicrous extreme possible.

"who is it" is his best '90s song and his best song

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson),

yep

It doesn't seem to matter and it doesn't seem right.

well, actually, wait – NOT his best song, although when it's on it feels like it.

I AM THE DAMNED
I AM THE DEAD
I AM THE AGONY INSIDE A DYING HEAD

hyperbole on my part but it is my favorite

No idea, tho, why "In the Closet," "Will You Be There" and "Jam" weren't on the first disc.

None of his 90s songs are as good as "Butterfly" in the 00s.

I can't remember him mimimg but the show was super-production-intensive and choreographed - I think he flew around in a jetpack at some point??

― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:30 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes the end of the Bucharest concert for the Dangerous tour. nobody can really top that for spectacle.

The extremely interesting backstory of that jet pack: http://thedollop.libsyn.com/237-jet-pack-madness

None of his 90s songs are as good as "Butterfly" in the 00s.

waht

"Invicible" has a couple of good songs ("Rock my world" particularly) but the "hard" stuff is weak with no groove at all and the ballads are mostly ott corny (and everything is too long).
it's a shame since there were so many possibilities to make a great album considering the many talents in rnb at that specific time... especially since it turned out to be his final record.

amazing just how forgotten/under-heard Invincible is/was. i mean you never hear anything from it ever.

I AM THE DAMNED
I AM THE DEAD
I AM THE AGONY INSIDE A DYING HEAD

― mark s, Wednesday, June 21, 2017

sung to the tune of Annie Lennox's "Why"

I AM THE DAMNED
I AM THE DEAD
I AM THE AGONY INSIDE A DYING HEAD

― mark s, Wednesday, June 21, 2017

sung as the verse of "You're Beautiful" by James Blunt

amazing just how forgotten/under-heard Invincible is/was. i mean you never hear anything from it ever.

― piscesx, Thursday, June 22, 2017 1:09 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I remember when it was released, the general attitude towards the record was almost like "Michael Jackson's got an album out, I see... *shrug*" which felt a bit bizarre considering how successful HIStory was and the 'Blood on the Dancefloor' single.

i did see someone absolutely kill "butterflies" at karaoke recently

I love Marsha Ambrosius' own version.

In fact, thinking about it, Invincible felt quite a great deal more "low key" than previous MJ records, even if the album apparently had millions thrown at it during production. There seemed to be very little promotion, or any huge budget videos, or any tour or anything. It seemed to flop the moment it was released, which was odd for a Michael Jackson record - especially since HIStory had shown that he still had a huge fanbase.

There was, I think, a pretty splashy premiere for the "You Rock My World" video but I vaguely remember it coming out maybe right after 9/11?

It was promoted extremely heavily iirc

I remember that it was released in a range of covers, but uh...

were there even other singles beside "you rock my world" ?

'Cry' and 'Butterflies' were both apparently singles - I can't remember either of 'em.

Here's Butterflies, which I love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRMT4CesgA

Invincible had a cheap, crappy unmemorable cover - like, every MJ cover (even History!) is kind of iconic or at least memorably weird, whereas Invincible is the herald of 00s and 10s "oh who gives a shit about the cover" product.

plus didn't he get into a very public feud with his label/promoter? Wikipedia calls it "the most expensive album ever made" so yeah it's kinda lol that it's basically unknown.

Ah yeah, I remember now...

http://www.mtv.com/news/1455976/michael-jackson-shocks-al-sharpton-by-calling-tommy-mottola-a-racist/

I have absolutely no recollection of "cry" and "butterflies" as singles !
but if they were singles, how come there were no videos ?

Ah, no wonder I have no recollection of 'Butterflies', it was only a single in the US. 'Cry' was released in the UK, but was a flop - only making it to #25. Frogbs is correct, I'd forgotten about this but Jackson was feuding with Sony at the time, hence the album sinking like a stone. It was a huge difference to Thriller, Bad, Dangerous and even HIStory where virtually every track seemed like it was going to be a single - those records were really promoted into the ground.

No. of singles per LP:

Off The Wall: 5
Thriller: 7
Bad: 9
Dangerous: 9
HIStory: 8 - 9 if you count the remix of 'HIStory'
Invincible: 3

I mean the other thing is, Invincible is just kind of a sucky album, not in a "disappointing but somewhat redeemable" way like History, it just...sucks. Amazing that someone with so much talent and cash and access to any producer on the planet could put out something so dull and unmemorable. Though I do still dig "You Rock My World", maybe due to it being one of the few MJ singles that wasn't pounded into the ground

It's not any less dull than Bad.

Empirically untrue.

I don't really like Bad but that's a bit excessive !
I'm not even sure I managed to listen to Invicible all the way through once...

'Unbreakable' is a good groove but also kinda weird in that it's so clearly inspired by 'Unbelievable', he must have really been into that one.

aaaah will I REALLY have to listen to Invicible because of this thread...?

Bad is about as dull as an F-color diamond

Listening to Bad right now and it rules.

invincible is his worst album but it's still good, jeez

I just realized that I don't think I've ever heard HIStory in full. I remember biking to the mall the day it came out, being stunned by the price (cause it was packaged with the best of), buying Natalie Merchant's solo debut (out the same day?) instead, and never bothered thinking about it again after that.

i remember one summer MTV hyping this up w a fascistic video of a giant Michael statue floating down a river

There's still one of those MJ statues stood outside a McDonald's in The Netherlands, apparently.

It got temporarily taken down in 2012 (warning: disturbing video), but only for restoration.

A company from Eindhoven has taken great care of Jackson and polished it.

Dom Sheldon is a cold man