best Sonic Youth album of the '90s

Experimental Jet Set, but not by much. I never play Goo but pretty much adore the others.

I think I'm gonna go with Jet Set, for reasons that were discussed a little bit in the previous thread...might wait a while to vote, though, I might yet go for Goo or Dirty (although the last 2 are good too).

washing machine is the only record of theirs past daydream nation i still own tho goo and dirty have much better cover art.

experimental jet set is all filler, no killer and never heard thousand leaves (or any of the 00 albums).

i mean goo is a mess but its miles better than experimental jetset.

i can't believe i never thought of this at the time when i was a nerdy teenager and totally obsessed with this band but it's kind of funny that they had albums with the word "goo" and "dirty" and "trash" in the titles, which were then followed by ~~~WASHING MACHINE~~~

Never heard EJSTANS. Kim rules on Goo and Dirty -- "Tunic," "Swimsuit Issue," "Kool Thing." Thurston's "Theresa's Sound-World" is one of my favorite SY bask-in-sound-for-its-own-sake numbers.

Went with ATL because it's chilly, static, dirty, and pastoral at once, even when it drags.

I think I cherish Goo like no other because it was my Sonic Youth gateway. I'd heard "Teen Age Riot" before, but Goo was my first of their albums.

Stepping back and looking at it objectively, though, I think I'd STILL go with Goo. The sequencing is perfect, "Mote" is one of Lee's best choons, and the guitars on "Titanium Exposé" rival MBV's "Only Shallow" for me in a total WTFHOWDIDTHEYDOTHAT?! situation.

experimental jet set is all filler, no killer

I'd rep for "Bull in the Heather" and "Androgynous Mind" tho.

Goo demos >>>>>> Goo

yeah Goo is so good...I feel like it's gotten a bad rap for following a great album, being their major label debut, supposedly not being as good as the demos (which I disagree with), etc. but in my mind most of the songs are a direct continuation of Daydream Nation and often just as good as anything on that.

haha xpost

1000 Leaves is my 2nd faves album of theirs (first is Evol).

i can respect that, i think i may have said or thought the same thing 10 years ago (although ATL hasn't aged real well for me).

Ranaldo's "Hoarfrost" is his finest moment, imo.

yeah that song rules hard -- really every SY album has songs that rule hard though

Sometimes Lee seems like he needs a hug, or a noogie or something.

i guess i need to listen to experimental jet set again -- it was my first SY album, but I haven't listened to it in ... 10 years? other than "starfield road" and "bull in the heather" there aren't too many songs i remember on it ...

the last 3 songs on Jet Set are one of my favorite stretches on any SY album, "Tokyo Eye" especially

yeah, i sort of have the feeling i might like Jet Set more now ... i'll have to dig it out. where's the deluxe edition??? COME ON.

haha they're definitely never doing a deluxe edition of that album! i'm not sure what they'd even include if they did, besides the acoustic sessions and the alt "Doctor's Orders."

a live disc? did they not even really tour behind that album? i guess they did lollapalooza, but that was a year later, right?

Thurston's "Theresa's Sound-World" is one of my favorite SY bask-in-sound-for-its-own-sake numbers.

It's my Sonic Youth POO.

"Theresa's Sound-World" is so good that Yo La Tengo rewrote it with "Flying Lesson (Hot Chicken #1)."

they only did one full-length show in support of Jet Set, since Kim was pregnant when the album came out. according to the tourstats page, 9 of the songs from the album have been played live at least once: http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/cc/songstats.html

Heh. I said I liked Dirty, so ILX ate my comment.

Voted Washing Machine. I love that album.

Washing Machine has "Diamond Sea," my favorite 90s Sonic Youth song not on the SYR series.

voted Dirty, a sentimental fave

Washing Machine is the one i return to the most these days, a huge diverse album with the most epic of all ending tracks.

never got into Goo at all, except the opening track, Tunic and Chuck D

xp Dirty was my first SY album, therefore also leaning towards a sentimental vote...

i'd probably go dirty > washing machine > ejstns > goo > thousand leaves

goo,without a doubt.

dirty > goo > washing machine > thousand leaves > ejsans

I'm leaning toward Washing Machine, but I could probably be convinced of any of these on the right day.

(Also 1995, not 1996, yeah? I think it came out in September.)

yeah, it was '95, and i totally knew that, sorry for the typo

Dirrrty

Thousand Leaves.

Sonic Youth 80s > Sonic Youth 2000s > Sonic Youth 90s

yah totally

I've never really understood why Dirty is so bad and hated by SY fans. Cos they sold out or something?

Which SY fans think it's bad?

at worst it's irrelevant.

Well I like it better than anything else they released that decade, but I have seen it trashed by fans plenty of times

Dirty is my biggest love-the-songs-but-not-the-album record in their catalog, it's just so long and poorly sequenced (and somehow also relegated a couple of really good songs to b-sides). "Purr" and "Theresa's Sound-World" and "JC" and "Sugar Kane" and "On The Strip" are awesome, though.

Maybe it's just my experience but I've known plenty of SY fans who hate Sugar Kane etc

Yeah, I dunno...Maybe it's because I'm on the younger end of their fanbase but I'm fortunate to have never found myself in many discussions about whether SY ever 'sold out' and when, but I always got the impression that that charge was more frequently levelled at Goo.

Yeah that gets it too - but I think more often it's Dirty that has that accusation - I'm likely talking out of my arse though.

They got better at writing fuzz-pop songs this decade, no question. "100%" really sucks as an album opener and an attempt at terse pop; to return to Al's point, starting the album with, say, "Youth Against Fascism" would have gone a long way towards redeeming the muddled sequencing and placed their vague political awakening in greater relief.

Yeah, "100%" was one of the first SY songs I ever heard and I thought it was awful at the time (and still do, more or less), didn't take any interest in them until a year or two later when I saw The Year Punk Broke and heard some of the '80s stuff.

(I don't think they've ever learned how to write political songs, btw. They're good at over- and undertones, though, which is why "YAF" works: singing and writing from the point of view of "youth" is a convenient/perfect way to make us forget the lack of clarity).

lol I love 100% esp the 2 note bass riff at the end...

On the other thread someone said SY is one of those bands no-one can agree on what's good and what isn't, I guess that's true

My first day of 8th grade I was one of three kids wearing the same green Sonic Youth Dirty shirt. While we all agreed it was easily the coolest rock T at the Disc Jockey at the mall, none of us had bothered to buy the CD yet.

ugh god Youth Against Facism is horrible

i mean it's funny to laugh at and stuff

It's the song you hate.

i need to listen to A Thousand Leaves, haven't listened to it in awhile, i still dig Washing Machine a bunch

I have always loved "100%".

All you men are slime.

yeah me too, i think it's great for an opener and Swimsuit Issue works great right after it. i love Dirty, but it's a little too long

yeah i agree -- Dirty has some incredible highs, but it could be shaved down a few songs for sure.

I'm just from Encino – why are you so meano?

haha that line always makes me laugh

Dirty definitely has the funniest lyrics.

ha this reminds me of a discussion we were having over on the twitter thread yesterday--i hate when critics say a book is too long in a review without getting into details about specifics, but it seems like a totally legitimate complaint when it comes to music

yeah, i know, i sorta hate the "this album woulda made a great EP" argument, but Dirty in particular is one I always feel a little bit exhausted by at the end.

that said, i'm not sure what i'd leave off!

I like "Purr," "On the Strip," and "Chapel Hill" on the back end and would lose "Orange Rolls" and "Shoot" in a heartbeat.

maybe Shoot or Purr, also all of these

"Chapel Hill" (lyrics/vocals Moore) – 4:46
"Youth Against Fascism" (lyrics/vocals Moore) – 3:36
"Nic Fit" (Untouchables) (vocals Moore) – 0:59

yeah, i mean all SY albums are kind of exhausting by the end, but Dirty's novelties don't annoy me and the rockers don't get logey. It's probably my favorite save Sister.

yeah, those'll do, though I will admit to kinda liking "youth against fascism" xpost

I like Chapel Hill & Orange Rolls!

I could lose YAF and Nic Fit tho

yeah 15 songs is just too much for an SY album -- i mean i guess Jet Set technically has 15 counting the bonus track but it's 10 minutes shorter and not as overbearing, and Daydream Nation has 14 (if "Trilogy" = 3 songs) but it's a big ambitious double so it works. but really they should just stick to 7-10 songs imo.

Also I love how Dirty is the album where they're clearly playing to the kids without yet accepting their age. There's a real cartoonish outreach to it that makes me nostalgic for the era.

i guess i liked "100%" more after finding out the Joe Cole subtext, but "JC" is still a way way better song

Goo has a similar template but feels dimmer in comparison, Vig and Wallace sound like he has no idea which track will be the hit so they make sure everything's ready for the Buzz Bin just in case, save a few moments of real quirk like "Nic Fit."

Hmm I would released Youth Against Fascism as a 7-inch, with Brian Eno replacing Butch Vig as producer. Then I would save Nic Fit to come out on Experimental Jet Set Trash and No Star, but put Screaming Skull on Goo instead, then take the video concept for Kool Thing and use it for Swimsuit Issue instead. I'd use Bob Bert to play drums on Creme Brulee and convince Kim Gordon never to start X-Girl. I'd reverse the song order, then have it play again in its current order, but as a secret track with all the songs remixed to pan Lee and Thurston's guitars to the opposite sides. Finally I'd replace Lee's vocals on Theresa's Sound World with the sound of dolphins laughing and find out what would have happened if Amelia Earhart had survived to have a lesbian affair with Eleanor Roosevelt.

The set pieces on Goo stun me more often: "Dirty Boots," "Tunic," "Kool Thing," "Titanium Expose." I don't know what "Mote" is trying to do except give EVOL-era fuzzscapes a grunge sheen. "My Friend Goo" is a cute precuror to Kim's nyaa-nyaa sex songs on Dirty.

ditto to Alfred's post

Finally I'd replace Lee's vocals on Theresa's Sound World with the sound of dolphins laughing and find out what would have happened if Amelia Earhart had survived to have a lesbian affair with Eleanor Roosevelt.

HIT ME WITH YOUR WHAMMY

although i like "Mote"

Honestly, I had to go to my iTunes to look up "Mote"; I just remembered it as the "swirly formless Ranaldo one in the middle."

Never gotten the appeal of "Titanium Expose" and "Tunic" is possibly Kim's most boring spotlight, imo. And "Mote" is the shit, what the heck is wrong with giving EVOL-era fuzzscapes a grunge sheen?

"Dirty" is only 59 minutes, which is longish but not ridiculous

"Titanium Expose" has one of my fav SY riffs ever

xpost - it feels longer than 59 minutes is the problem

The sheen makes it harder for me to ignore Lee's words and singing.

(xpost)

I only started to get "Tunic" when Assayas used it in a really great setpiece in Irma Vep.

sounds like your feelings are the problem

is that a Kim quote?

voted for Goo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFPF7E-NWac

mote, bitches!

admittedly i dig just about any lee track with harmonies

yeah, i mean all SY albums are kind of exhausting by the end, but Dirty's novelties don't annoy me and the rockers don't get logey. It's probably my favorite save Sister.

― da croupier, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:28 (13 minutes ago)

^^ otm!

not surprised at all the Dirty skepticism, since i guess that is a thing. but i'm really surprised at all the love for Experimental Jet Set. against the two before and after it is super weak!

but we all kind of like Dirty!

I want to read more good shit about EJS, though: it's real cheap on Amazon.

guess why it's real cheap?

The ironic thing about EJS for me is that it's has their most concise "songs" but I enjoy it a hell of a lot more for texture than the vocals.

Xgau's reviews:

Goo [DGC, 1990]

Their first true major-label album and first true song album stars the bassist who has always been this paradigm-shifting guitar band's secret weapon. Maybe Kim Gordon overrates Karen Carpenter and undervalues Chuck D. But it's "Tunic" and "Kool Thing" you'll sing along with, not Thurston Moore's pseudo/macho ZZ Top homage. Her friend Goo is your friend and my friend and the reason this music exists. In a world where songs are still counted girly, we need Goo. And it's her big sister's in-my-room ethereality, direct and spaced out at the same time, that gives her a voice. A-

Dirty [DGC, 1992]

With the help of their first real producer, they stop flirting with progress and concentrate on remaining the world's greatest rock and roll band--if Butch Vig snuck in a "Smells Like Teen Spirit," it's known only to David Geffen's bagmen, who understand things about airplay that you and I don't. "Youth Against Fascism" is catchy indeed, but fun as it would be to hear "I believe Anita Hill" roaring from a passing boombox, I don't think it'll fly. And elsewhere it's gonna be tough extricating the hooks, which are more plentiful than ever, from the noise, which makes a comeback. Aurally as well as lyrically, this album earns its title. Thurston never could carry a tune, but he can surround one. And when Kim warns you not to touch her breasts, the possibility that she's an uptight chick never crosses your mind. A

Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star [DGC, 1994]

Instead of distilling their weakness for experimental trash into noise-rock that sounds like a million bucks, they apply their skill at major-label compromise to their eternal propensity for experimental trash. After all this time, they know what they're doing when they fuck around, and their long-evolving rock and roll groove breaks down only when they have something better to do--there's nothing aleatory, accidental, or incompetent about it. Anyway, usually the groove holds; this is no Sister because it moves when it means to. Its unexpected noises are the marks of flesh-and-blood creatures thinking and feeling things neither you nor they have ever thought or felt before. If they can't quite put those things into words, that's what unexpected noises are for. A

EJS is one of their strongest, most varied efforts. great production, too (in contrast to dirty). it's got that dry humidity to it. there's a dank atmosphere to the darker songs, like skink. can't decide between EJS and WM. WM has more space, and more sublime moments similar to sweet shine. the hate for EJS is amusing.

I'm still kind of mystified by Jet Set in the context of their catalog, it feels so anomolous compared to the albums directly before it, especially considering that it has the same producer as Dirty. I'm not even sure what its reference points are -- I guess it's sometimes pegged as their 'lo-fi' record or the one with a lot of Pavement influence but it feels like something else entirely.

pretty sure people sing along to "dirty boots" more than "tunic," but hey who knows what happens in xgau's car

yeah that line is wtf

also "aleatory"

look at the big brains on xgau

xgau and sonic youth is like chinatown for me. that rather ripped review where he calls out amy phillips, going on about how "the non-old have trouble getting their minds around is the difference between taste and judgment" before admitting Murray Street sounds better than NYC Ghosts & Flowers to him now. What a screwball.

I should listen to Goo and Dirty some more. The thing is, I like all these albums, but I almost never listen to those ones.

might go along with the post upthread that says Goo demos are better than Goo, but I'm not sure. They're both pretty great. Right now, it's a toss-up betw. Goo and Washing Machine for me.

let's look at the other RC's reviews for the other 2 90s records for shits and giggles:

Washing Machine [DGC, 1995]
With nothing to prove except that they can do it forever without going gold, they do it again. Recalling their roots, they stretch the title cut past its songful limits and build the finale into a 20-minute improvisation not altogether unreminiscent of the Grateful Dead. But at the same time they stick to the theoretically radio-ready songwriting that is now an aesthetic commitment, even trying their hand at a folk tune and a Shangri-Las tribute. As it happens, the latter owes the Fleetwoods. But needless to say, both ultimately sound like Sonic Youth, an institution whose guitars are often emulated and never replicated. As does everything else on a record that will startle no one and sound fresh in 2002. A-

A Thousand Leaves [Geffen, 1998]
This record is what it seems--mature, leisurely, rather beautiful, perhaps content. But it's neither complacent nor same-old, and after it's settled into their, I'm sorry, oeuvre, it will rank toward the top for everybody except permanent revolutionaries, a noncombatant category if ever there was one. Awash in connubial ardor and childhood bliss, undergirded by the strength-through-strangeness of angry tunings grown familiar, it's the music of a daydream nation old enough to treasure whatever time it finds on its hands. Where a decade ago they plunged and plodded, drunk on the forward notion of the van they were stuck in, here they wander at will, dazzled by sunshine, greenery, hoarfrost, and machines that go squish in the night. The melodies aren't the foci of the 11-tracks-in-74-minutes--more like resting places. But even when the band is punk-rocking le sexisme or pondering the trippy fate of Karen Koltrane, the anxiety the tunes alleviate is never life-threatening. Motto, and they quote: "`We'll know where when we get there.'" A+

any guesses as to what the "folk tune" on Washing Machine is?

i think this is probably Dirty. I remember being a little underwhelmed by it when it came out for some reason, and thinking it sounded too 'safe', who knows what I was smoking back then. I listen to this more than the others now, anyway.

This is an oddly difficult poll. The first 4 all have points in their favor and probably A Thousand Leaves does too, but I've never listened to it. Washing Machine was the last Sonic Youth album that I really bothered with.

One thing I'm realizing as I think this over is that it comes down to how much I can stand the Kim Gordan songs on each of these. I usually like most of the stuff that Thruston and (especially) Lee come up with.

Goo - All around solid, somewhat of a classic rock vibe. The Kim songs like My Friend Goo and Kool-Thing are pretty goofy, but lovable in their own way and Tunic is probably the best song she ever did.

Dirty - I was definitely disappointed by this when it came out. I don't have a beef with the production, it's probably the only Butch Vig album where I don't hate the overall sound. Love 100% and Theresa's Sound World, but I don't have much love for many of the other songs. The Kim Gordan songs on this one are some of the worst she did during the 90s.

Experimental Jet Set - I think this may be the most cohesive of the 90s albums. I like that it isn't particularly jammy. From a song writing perspective, one of their strongest, and surprisingly good work from Kim.

Washing Machine - kind of a grab bag, their first "low-key" record. Saucer-Like is one of my favorite Lee songs.

So which one to pick, who knows? Probably will come down to either Goo or Experimental Jet Set, with Washing Machine a close third, but I'm going to go back and listen to these before I vote.

Xgau got me to buy ATL, I admit, but no way is it an A+ even if it's my favorite of the bunch.

ummm ... is the folk tune "Unwind"? what kinda folk is that. is there a pete seeger album i need to buy that sounds like that?

Hmmm... Didn't realize Vig produced Experimental Jet Set too - that's a pretty great sounding record, doesn't at all sound like his style.

listening to Dirty right now and it sounds pretty great, not regretting my choice. First eight songs are all classic. Kim's vocals sound different on Dirty than on any of their other albums, she's actually singing melodically and with force and conviction, great growls on Drunk Butterfly, overall she sounds a lot more "singery" than she usually does.

the weirdest label relations lore I've ever heard about SY's Geffen years is that supposedly the label didn't like them opening albums with long tracks, which is why the coda of "Becuz" is split way off into its own thing on track 9, and A Thousand Leaves opens with technically the shortest track, even though "Contre Le Sexisme" is just about the least accessible song on the album. no idea if either of those things are actually true, though.

I've never really understood why Dirty is so bad and hated by SY fans. Cos they sold out or something?

At least a couple of people I know seem to think that this was their last good album and that everything they've done since isn't worth caring about. As always, I think this has a lot to do with when you became a fan.

that book "Goodbye 20th Century" has some good stuff about EJSTNS, my impression is that even though Vig was the producer in name, they pretty much forced them into their concept of how they wanted to work, which was very fast, using a lot of first and second takes and not a lot of set-up or fiddling, which is probably why it doesn't sound like a Vig production.

does anyone remember reading thurston/lee's lollapalooza tour diaries, they were kind of hilarious as i recall or at least thurston's were

Yeah, I remember reading that shit on AOL dial-up in 1995.

haha me too!

and A Thousand Leaves opens with technically the shortest track, even though "Contre Le Sexisme" is just about the least accessible song on the album

This sequencing doesn't seem particularly off to me, though -- it's the weird, quiet song that sets up the rock of "Sunday," not all that dissimilar to "Winner's Blues" setting up "Bull in the Heather."

The sequencing is off to me in that "Contre Le Sexisme" was part of it.

also it's pretty weird that they recorded Jet Set over the Sister master tape to save money considering that that was probably the peak of their commercial success, but knowing that has led me to mentally group those 2 albums together on some abstract level.

until The Eternal, EJS was also their highest charting album.

haha, is that true about the Sister master tape? that kinda seems like a Thurston-y fib.

also it's pretty weird that they recorded Jet Set over the Sister master tape to save money

</3 </3 </3

Hearing "Bull in the Heather" on alt-rock radio is basically what got me into the band.

I don't know, I'm trying to listen to Dirty right now, but it's hard to separate it from (anti-)nostalgia for my alternative youth. It was my jam in 92 though. I actually haven't heard any of these albums in foevah, and I've never head ATL. But I voted for Goo.

it's hard to separate it from (anti-)nostalgia for my alternative youth

why try? that's just as valid a reason to pick it or not pick it as anything else

"Bull in the Heather" is def. one of the better alt-rock hits of the 90s.

no, I mean...it sort of makes me uncomfortable to listen to it, because it brings back feelings of wearing flannel.

xp

I'm pretty sure Ranaldo still owns that shirt he wears on Dirty's back cover.

"Bull in the Heather" is def. one of the better alt-rock hits of the 90s.

There was just something so compellingly weird about it. I remember liking Steve Shelley's drumming a lot, too.

haha, is that true about the Sister master tape? that kinda seems like a Thurston-y fib.

― tylerw, Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:31 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if you turn up the volume between songs you can hear faint traces of Sister songs (especially "Schizophrenia" at the end of "Winner's Blues"), so if it's a fib it's one they really committed to backing up.

yeah "Bull In The Heather" was the song that got me to buy an album and I still think it's by far the best single of their major label years

meh, both the Washing Machine singles are better: "Little Trouble Girl" and "Diamond Sea"

I loved "Bull In The Heather" when it came out but Kim sounds breathy-in-a-bad-way on the verse now.

"breathy in a bad way" is going to be the title of my CDR mix of Kim Gordon slow jams

another fan of EJSTNS here, i like how messy and garagey it sounds. it really doesn't sound like anything else they ever did, kinda reminds me of 'chocolate synthesizer' by the boredoms which was the same year? i wonder if there was anything conscious there

er

tokyo EYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE
tokyo EEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE

yeah I thought that was a reference to Eye Yamatsuka but maybe not

it is, and they toured together so it makes sense. it's just interesting to me how those two albums in particular sound so much alike production-wise especially when sy never really went for that vibe again

I vote for GOO.

100% is probably my favorite track on Dirty. Not too crazy about the rest of it. Nic Fit is fun though.

Bull in the Heather is a great track. I might be more into the video with Kathleen Hanna dancing around than the actual song. Ceut.

The bridge in Washing Machine & the entirety of Diamond Sea make this an easy pick for me.

experimental jet set is all filler, no killer

I'd rep for "Bull in the Heather" and "Androgynous Mind" tho.

― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Sweet Shine is the shit as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azu0Xd0EpoU

No doubt Washing Machine for me.

so I'm probably not gonna do an '80s poll just because those albums dominated this poll pretty decisively (although I might do some SYR/side projects type polls): Best Sonic Youth Studio Album

but it's neat to look at those results to try and get some kind of idea of what'll get votes in this one:

Goo (1990) 7
Washing Machine (1995) 7
A Thousand Leaves (1998) 6
Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star (1994) 4
Dirty (1992) 4

I'd be really surprised if it ended up looking like this (multiplied a few times over), and of course it's skewed by what other albums got votes there, but that's a pretty interesting result.

i agree, i've got no idea what's thought of as the best one here. i'm going to have to relisten to them all before i vote

Voted Washing Machine, but I think if I looked down deep into my heart it'd probably be Goo here...would probably flip back and forth depending on my mood.

I've never ever gotten EJSTNS - certain people have raved about it for forever, but I've always just found it kinda boring.

I'm not even sure what its reference points are -- I guess it's sometimes pegged as their 'lo-fi' record or the one with a lot of Pavement influence but it feels like something else entirely.

I do remember Thurston mentioning Guided By Voices as an influence in cutting short tracks like "Starfield Road" rather than trying to flesh them out into something longer.

^ That's EJSTNS

I think EJSTNS is such an outlier (sounds so different from other SY albums) that it tends to be either overrated or underrated.

that's interesting, I didn't know there was any kind of acknowledgement of GBV like, guess it makes sense. I did this on the last thread so I'll go OCD and do it again here, average track lengths for each album:

Goo - 4:29
Dirty - 3:55
Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star - 3:35
Washing Machine - 6:12
A Thousand Leaves - 6:41

Washing Machine - 6:12

"Diamond Sea" is kind of an outlier here, though.

well, lots of their albums have one song that's way longer than the others, i'd stay it still counts in the average, though. i was more reticent about not adjust Jet Set's average for the silence and bonus noise on the last track.

adjustING

More, please.

i voted EJSTNS but i think maybe i am lying to myself for not voting goo. jet set is great and i've been listening to it alot lately, but goo was my first sonic youth album and really, who can fuck with those hooks?

i've had the exact same thought a few times (except about Goo being my first SY album).

I love them all, of course. But here's how I'd rank them:

Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star - Funny, sexy, quirky, yes, this is their Pavement record. It was difficult to hear at the time and always takes an effort to access it again. That's because it's constricted and doesn't rock out too much. But once you succumb to the fact that it's a Pavement record, you realize it's as catchy as anything they've ever done. And never has their knack for switching gears within a song been more perversely attractive. I particularly love how "Starfield Road" decides it wants to be a Hawkwind song (or finally realizes its Hawkwindness) with only 40 seconds left to the track. Perfect for the caffeined-up, candy-coated alt mindset in the genre's banner year.

Dirty - A few duff cuts. But apart from Daydream Nation, I'm not sure they ever rocked harder (and more meta?) than "Drunken Butterfly."

A Thousand Leaves - I'm not a big Kim fan on this. But "Karen Koltrane" and "Wildflower Soul" go on the career reel. P.S. Xgau got choked up while reading his review of this album at a book signing sez a friend of mine.

Washing Machine - I hated every Sonic Youth album on impact after Daydream Nation and wound up digging them all after constant exposure. Until this one. Initially I thought I was simply pining for another Daydream Nation. But now I think this is where they started to settle into alt rock seigneury with all the consistency and mild surprises that implies. As such, it's a tad formulaic (save for "Trouble Girl" and "The Diamond Sea"). But that in itself is a pleasure (or started to become one - Sonic Youthness). And I don't know which is the folk tune either. Career reel: the title track and the two non-formulaic ones. P.S. Methinks Local H stole the melody from "The Diamond Sea" for their epochal "All The Kids Are Right."

Goo - Disfigured by throwing a bone to Lee with "Mote." "My Friend Goo" is arch. And both Joan Crawford and Chuck D deserved better tributes.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

if there was ever a song on an SY record that could be described as "throwing a bone to Lee," it ain't "Mote"

I'd save that designation for "In The Kingdom #14" or whatever it's called

never gave a damn about the meter man until I was the man who had to read the meter

i thought i'd done a Lee vox poll thread at some point but can't find one, apparently i didn't. maybe i'll do that as the next SY poll.

You could just post your favorite lines from Corso, Creeley, and Ginsburg and say it's a Ranaldo poll.

more throwing a firecracker to Lee amirite

lol

voted washing machine, for diamond sea and the title track, but jet set would be a close second for me.

EJST&NS! KJB gets it just right. love the quirkiness. love that they supposedly screened a tape of Blade Runner (minus sound) throughout the entirety of the recording sessions. it's their PKD tribute record (maybe even moreso than Sister was).

that's so funny, i had never heard that

yeah, i think that bit's from the book (Confusion Is Next?) that came out 'round about then.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

wow lotsa votes

lee is totally my favourite person in sonic youth. a lee songs poll would help me remember which titles to skip to.

we could have some kind of thread where people respond to the question 'who is your favourite person to have been in sonic youth?'

yea everyone loves lee ~ that would b a useful poll. im pretty sure raving abt lee has been discussed a lot

I certainly don't love Lee, but I'm content to like him once in a while.

i never really knew what results to expect and i guess these aren't surprising but they still weird me out

only 19 more votes than the 00s poll got, i guess that's about right.

"'who is your favourite person to have been in sonic youth?'"

That's easy: Jim Sclavunos. His drumming on Confusion is Sex is just madness.

As for best of the 90s, I don't think I ever heard A Thousand Leaves but I'm gonna have to lean towards Washing Machine or maybe even Goo. I haven't really loved any of them since Evol tbh.

nice results

reverse (sorta) for me please.

Hmm "Dirty"'s win sent me back to the record for the first time in eons and yeah, it's good. It's one of the last gasps of the band's "punk" roots, since almost everything that comes after is tempered by its self-conscious "experimental" or "jam band" tendencies, especially the latter. Not that it seemed so shocking at the time, but I listen to everything from "A Thousand Leaves" on (if I honestly listen to it at all) knowing that Lee likes the Dead.

not to cop a "n00bs don't know any better" pose, because that would be ridiculous, but I really do wonder, since Dirty was their biggest-selling record, how many of its votes came from people who only have that album and maybe a couple of the 80s ones, or stopped paying attention after Jet Set and merely prefer it to Goo. just because it felt like there was so little enthusiasm for it on this thread.

I seriously thought Jet Set would win or take second place; I underestimated the lurkers.

not me dogg, that album is the challops pick, it sticks out like a b-sides comp.

dunno about the n00b thing, I ended up going with dirty. it suffers from the curse of CD-induced album length sprawl, but there's a lot of stupid trashy fun to be had there. I don't think I've ever been able to listen to a thousand leaves or washing machine all the way through without getting bored/distracted and putting something else on. for the longest time I only heard goo and experimental and my dislike for those albums is strong.

oddly enough my favorite from the 00s poll is the jam-laden murray street, partly because thurston sings in a weird way that makes them sound so unsonic youthy.

I voted Dirty and have heard most of the SY albums EVER so f.u. buddy

haha i wasn't saying only a noob would like it! but it is good to hear the perspective of some folks that vote for it.

I voted for Dirty. I thought Washing Machine would win though.

washing machine did win wtf

alphabetical fail

Are we doing an 80s poll, too?

well it didnt win outright

I wasn't planning on an 80s poll. It would just feel redundant, given how much the 80s albums dominated this poll: Best Sonic Youth Studio Album

yeah, I wouldn't expect results radically different than this

Sister (1987) 36
Daydream Nation (1988) 35
EVOL (1986) 15
Bad Moon Rising (1985) 9
Confusion Is Sex (1983) 3
Sonic Youth (1982) 2
Made in USA (1986) 0

But there are like 50 votes in that poll for non-80s albums. Some of those might change the results (though probably just to bump Daydream up a notch - so, okay, never mind).

what about SY EPs poll

master-dik ftw!

haha yeah i guess...basically i was gonna keep doing SY polls every 2 weeks until I run out of ideas (after the Lee songs poll: best SYR release, best comp/EP/live/misc. band release, best Thurston side project, best Kim etcetcetc). i might do an 80s one after all that, but it's a free country, if someone started one i'd vote.

xpost

thanks some dude for all your amazing work on these polls dude!!!!!oneoneone

hey what else am i gonna do? WORK?

funny, i never got into Washing Machine. would have placed Goo at the top, then Dirty, then EJSTANS, then Washing Machine, then Leaves.....

then again, Goo was my first SY album, and there's nothing like your first yknow.

for me Dirty>Washing Machine>Goo>Experimental Jet Set>A Thousand Leaves

woo found some of my 90s bootlegs on a dvdr

Finally got EJSTANS a few months ago: all you guys reppin' for it were otm.

See? What took you so damn long?

Man I couldn't agree more. I'm glad I gave that record a second (& third & on and on) chance.

Dirty is one of my favorite records of the 90s.

i am surprised that goo didn't win. how come washing machine is doing so well, i always found that it was one of their most boring albums, sonic youth on autopilot. had i voted, dirty would have won. maybe i did but i do not remember at all.

The first songs on EJSTANS = wowz

*seven

yeah the Washing Machine love on this thread really surprised me.

I love Goo for the way half the songs are Daydream Nation Part 2 epics and the other half are some of the slightest, most tossed off things they've ever done, but I can kinda understand why that rubbed a lot of their fans at the time the wrong way, or why they'd prefer Dirty's arguably more successful and more singular attempt at a proper major label rock record.

any love for "Sweet Shine" (WOO...I'M CUMIN HOOOOOOOOME!)?

I'm so ashamed I slept on this album so long – further proof that you should always refrain from buying at least one good album by a favorite band until the last moment.

I adore "Sweet Shine" and it pisses me off that it's got silence/bonus noise at the end that keeps me from putting it on loads of mix CDs.

It definitely is great to have a couple unheard albums lurking in someone's discography to still discover at some point.

wao truthbomb abt Sweet Shine on mix CDs...which is why it was cool that I had it first on cassette, and made all my mixtapes on my two deck karaoke machine ("Killer!")

haha yeah when i was still in cassette world i had "Sweet Shine" on a few tapes

favourite songs on EJSTANS:

01 sweet shine
02 bull in the heather
03 quest for the cup
04 starfield road
05 winners blues

*runners-up: bone, skink, androgynous minds

any love for "Sweet Shine" (WOO...I'M CUMIN HOOOOOOOOME!)?

it might be my favourite kim song...

washing machine's title track, and diamond sea, are the antithesis of autopilot

we may need to do a Jet Set poll after the Dirty one runs its course

my knock against WM wouldn't be autopilot personally, I mainly don't like the distortion effecton on a lot of the vocals and think they did the midtempo groove type thing better on later albums

Cheers, Al. You and I've been practically lockstep re SY.

How 'bout the Jukebox now.

how bout it! wait, what about it?

i remember buying thurston's solo record "psychic hearts" hoping it would sound like "winner's blues". needless to say, i was very disappointed.

the other song-y solo album he released a couple years ago has a lot of acoustic on it, although it doesn't really sound like that either.

i think at this point i prefer Psychic Hearts to Washing Machine.

I've never heard Psychic Hearts. I guess I should finally give it a try.

songs for all the dead rock stars, or whatever its called, is immense

i remember buying thurston's solo record "psychic hearts" hoping it would sound like "winner's blues". needless to say, i was very disappointed.

― johnnyo, Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

You might enjoy Thurston's Trees Outside the Academy.

Love this thread -- everyone on their A game. I relistened to the entire SY catalogue as a result.

just started reading the Goodbye 20th Century bio so all the SY threads on new answers are kinda weirding me out! in a good way though.

Not a bad read, even if I disagree with his reviews.

haven't gotten that far yet. enjoying all the detailed backstories full of stuff i didn't already know -- like, Kim Gordon and Danny Elfman dated in high school! who knew!

Is that the best SY bio there is? It got roundly panned by the Wire when it came out so I kinda shied away, but I would be interested in reading a good book on them.

the only place I saw a copy of that was in the checkout lane at the Best Buy in Midland (birthplace of Steve Shelley, natch)--I wish I had bought it while I still lived there..

Goodbye 20th Century?? It's remaindered all over the place isn't it? Can't you find it on Amazon?

New copies are going for .32 cents on Amazon.

Plus $4 shipping, of course.

seein these dudes this evening, w/shellac and pop group and factory floor, o yes

A Thousand Leaves holds up surprisingly well for me.

fairly sure a thousand leaves is the best of these, even considering 'the diamond sea'

atl is extremely rich intertextually and obv p gorgeous, i was gonna write an essay about it years ago 'for no reason'

would agree about the gorgeousness of ATL, but it only intermittently adds up to anything. i'll take "sunday", "hoarfrost" and "karen koltrane", maybe "hits of sunshine" and "heather angel", but leave most of the rest. first album where i don't care for most of the kim songs, first album to entirely ditch rock & roll as a mode of operation, first album where the hippy-dippy aspect of the lyrics really starts to stick in my craw (lovely guitars on "wildflower soul", but damn, man).

of these, i honestly think goo's the best, with dirty, experimental jet set TANS and washing machine running not far behind, in that order. goo has the tunes (flawless through "disappearer") and combines them with the sense of wild growth and experimentation that characterized the albums that preceded it. plus, as an ace in the hole, it's got a wide-eyed, buzzing joy that's unique in their catalog. i guess i wouldn't say that a thousand leaves is worse than washing machine or experimental jet set, but it grabs me a good deal less.

I've never liked ATL as an album--much too interminable, way too long. Cutting it down by half to
Sunday
Hoarfrost
Hits of Sunshine
Karen Koltrane
Wild Flower Soul
Snare, Girl
...makes for a more satisfying listen, in my opinion.

"Hoarfrost" is my favorite Ranaldo song. I still remember my college station playing it in May '98 and the song catching my breath.

The switch from pastoral reverie to atonal skronk in "Karen Koltrane" is disorienting in the best way.

I've never liked ATL as an album--much too interminable, way too long

In the RS book, Rob Sheffield suggested sequencing the album 2-4-5-7-8-10 "for a six-song 46-minute groove album as intense as Sister."

yeah, i forgot about "snare, girl". keep that one too.

OK having listened to them both, I think Sheffield's sequence is better than mine. Instead of putting Wild Flower Soul as the epic closer, he uses it to keep the energy from Sunday going while its denouement informs the rest of the sequence. Cool.
good album... as intense as Sister? Not quite.

nah, it isn't anywhere near as intense or varied as sister. reduced version is solid, though. and i prefer your version to sheffield's (which is just the original sequencing minus duds), if only because WFS's lyrics make me cringe, so i'd prefer to work my way up to them. of those six songs, i might go:

Sunday
Hits of Sunshine
Hoarfrost

Karen Koltrane
Snare, Girl
Wildflower Soul

wildflower's lyrics are nowhere near as bad as some of those on Rather Ripped or even my beloved Sonic Nurse imo

at any rate I just want to point out what a lovely tune Snare, Girl is...

no 'ineffable me', no credibility.

I'll sacrifice credibility, that song blows.

ATL has Female Mechanic on Duty which I like almost as much as Karen Koltrane--for me the best song on the album.

Hoarfrost is a close third.

Heather Angel is really good too.

But then again I like Dirty the most out of the 90s albums.

"Wildflower Soul" rules, regardless of the lyrics. Thurston didn't even sing half the words of that song when they toured the record, and there's a pretty good recording of the early instrumental version on one of the Tibetan Freedom Concert live albums.

lo que sea

These 'reduced' versions of ATL are just based on throwing out all the Kim Gordon songs, right? Why not just say that?:P I don't think those songs are worse than the Moore songs, lyrically or musically. Maybe people just find her voice grating? (Again, I don't really think it's worse than Moore's.) I think "Heather Angel" in particular is great and quite original. I guess "Contre le Sexisme" is a little annoying.

Alfred OTM about "Karen Koltrane".

heather angel is astounding

also, kim gordon was at her most iggy last night. awesome...

yeah these alternate tracklists that throw out "French Tickler" are so rong. but Kim in the late 90s/early 00s are certainly SY's most divisive singer at her most divisive, for better or worse.

There's something about Heather Angel that kind of reminds me of Can's Soup...

in fact, as much as I love Kid A, I think Sonic Youth do a MUCH better job on ATL in channelling Can & reworking their aesthetic into an alternarock template then Radiohead ever manages to do on any album...

Agreed.

radiohead aren't fit to shine thurston's sneakers

These 'reduced' versions of ATL are just based on throwing out all the Kim Gordon songs, right?

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, January 1, 2011 6:06 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

umm, i did say that. i called it the first sonic youth album "where i don't care for most of the kim songs." and that's true. i like kim both a singer & as a musician, but i don't think she was on top of her game here. love "heather angel", though. was working with sparkle motion's song list when i made the 6-song reduction i posted earlier. my personal pocket version would add "heather angel" to the a-side.

radiohead aren't fit to shine thurston's sneakers

― this guy ☜ (stevie), Saturday, 1 January 2011 18:56 (4 hours ago)

that would be a great job for radiohead tho

i think atl may be kim's finest hour, at least after the 80s e-s-dn trilogy

thom prolley would agree with you, stevie!

Kim kinda ruled in the 90s; she had a lot of great songs in Dirty but I think ATL was kind of a culmination for her. Her range is kind of insane--French Tickler is half Sweet Shine, and half aggro noise.

she iz awesome!

ATL is the best album to write and drink coffee to.

thanks some dude for all your amazing work on these polls dude!!!!!oneoneone

― (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:53 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hey what else am i gonna do? WORK?

― some dude, Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:55 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so shocking that i was laid off less than 6 months later

self-obsessed and sexxee in every way!