Genesis Live

some that I don't like too

At least some of the Phil Collins-era stuff worked on an earcandy/stadium rock level.

Genesis in the early '70s may have seemed like the poor cousins of Yes and ELP to some degree, but I think that has more to do with being an indie band with no recording budget: their first three records suffer sonically. On the other hand, unlike Yes and ELP, Genesis didn't fall into the solo-wanking for wank's sake trap. Hackett, Banks and Rutherford were songwriters first, not virtuoso soloists to the same degree of Howe, Wakeman, Emerson et al. Taste over technique is not necessarily a bad thing.

Who was it that said (paraphrasing) progressive rock was a rebellion against three-minute songs about love by writing twelve-minute songs about nothing?

Surely this is a joke?

Or as Edward Macan put it, "If ELP were the Richard Wagner of progressive rock, Genesis were the movement's Mozarts".

iii No You can listen to this one again and again. I don't actualy like England or Lamb Lies Down much. Tresspass is mainly poorly recorded and the songs week. The studio versions of Nursery and Foxtrot both have weak tracks where Genesis go all mideval and dull.

ii Are there other albums that bear sequential play? Well many prog albums,esp ones by Yes, ELP and Pink Floyd need to be listened to in context, with the listener willing to engage (and even welcome) the stereotypical Progisms and I dont always do this. Fragile and Relayer are fine albums, but I wouldn't think they can suit all moods. Topographic Oceans can't, maybe Close to the Edge can. The first three VDGG albums (pawn, least, h to he) are pretty close to Genesis anyway, the three mid 70s KC albums (larks, starless, red) can (obv). I can do this with Hawkwind's DoRemi FaSo LaTido - but that may be just me.

Outwith Progrock (but still in modern popular idiom) Only really Closer (but not Unknown Pleasures) can bear whatever the mood listening - its no comment on how good they are.

i I think there are lots of albums as fantastic as this, from all sorts of genres. Its the lack of some of Progs worst excesses that makes Live special. There is a widely available bootleg video of 74 era Genesis live (ie slightly but not much later) which really brings home how out of the loop they were (The albums were minor hits only). Somebody above says "DIY" and thats spot on.

Got an advance of the forthcoming Live 1973-2007 Rhino box in today's mail. It includes the 1973 Live album, as well as Live at the Rainbow, also from 1973 and with two previously unreleased tracks ("Cinema Show" and "The Battle of Epping Forest"), five tracks from L.A. circa 1975, Seconds Out, Three Sides Live and The Way We Walk.

that set is a bewildering fuck off considering they didn't put on Suppers Ready that was cut from Live, and included crap from the archive box they already released.

If it is any consolation, "the crap from the archive box" has fewer Gabriel overdubs this time around.

We need a v-chip on here that edits out every time I moan about "Epping Forest".

those didn't bother me that much, it's just lame that they have better stuff, in great quality, that they didn't put on here. why?

for instance: what's known as "musica", a show from the Duke tour that they have in soundboard quality. sure you can get it in unofficial circles but if you're compliling your live stuff, just put it on there! They finally located the masters for Genesis Live and skipped Suppers Ready, a track whose intended inclusion on this album was all hushed up for a long time until test pressings with it on there appeared? It's not the best version ofthe song but they may as well put it out.

Genesis were fantastic back then, but I don't care about live albums at all.

I don't care about live albums at all.

Yeah, I'm a little thrown by that. Three Sides Live is pretty weak, and I loathe the studio albums post-Genesis (and all but two or three songs from that one), but I listen to Genesis Live more than any of the contemporaneous studio discs.

The drumming on the live "Musical Box." The cymbal shit is next level.

unaccompanied bass pedal solo imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FBcz3tBH74

Musically it's great, but I wish I hadn't looked this up & seen Peter Gabriel in Genesis now :-/

Some of you are going to die ;_;

What IS it with this album? Tried to get into the studio albums but completely failed to - dated and pretentious, bah. But this, this mesmerising masterpiece, I can listen to this once or twice a day for weeks on end (even during new Burial EP or Arcade Fire times).

listening to Seconds Out now - this is probably my favorite of their live records. perhaps heresy but I love Phil Collins taking on "Suppers Ready"!!

So do I. That was the album and song that made me a Genesis freak.

I still like that version more than the ones on Foxtrot and Genesis Archive. Phil's smoothness fits the song better than Gabriel's bark.

yeah - I just wrote a bit on Wind & Wuthering here in which I kinda realize that Phil wasn't really a downgrade
http://critterjams.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/genesis-wind-and-wuthering-1976/

the incredible second half of "Cinema Show" is also ace

Great piece. It's impressive that in 1976, they could still make a record as totally confident and casual as Wind & Wuthering. There's not a trace of strain over the prog-rock crisis on that album.

Phil I see as being a lateral move. Somehow I don't think that he could pull off "The Battle of Epping Forest" (not sure if he ever attempted it).

during my brief all-prog phase in high school I ran with a crowd that considered no-Gabriel era The Beginning Of The End - really enjoyed reading a clear-eyed take on Wind and Wuthering even if every time I try to revisit Genesis I feel like my departure from them was permanent and I can't ever really get back inside

That "Daddy, you promised!" bit sours me on the album every time.

They did "White Mountain" on the '76 tour. Phil's thin melodic voice made it sound especially silly — there was some combination of Gabriel's rasp and his aura of lunacy that made the words he sang seem almost meaningful.

Somehow I don't think that he could pull off "The Battle of Epping Forest" (not sure if he ever attempted it).

I don't think he did and you're probably right, but I would've said that about "Supper's Ready" too. Never heard the '76 band do "White Mountain", but that's kind of a ridiculous song anyway, isn't it?

Re-listening to some of this I'm astounded by how much of both W&W and Spot the Pigeon draw off the second disc of The Lamb, in particular the bits that I was always bored by. I wonder if they would've included any of that stuff had the storyline not been so long.

"All in a Mouse's Night" a bit of a let-down on W&W, "Epping Forest" no great loss in any situation. kinda feel like if they'd made a W&W a couple of years later it wd've been perfect

the gloss and distance they're on the way to acquiring on W&W might as well be a different band to the sludgey doom of Genesis Live tho

"All in a Mouse's Night" was my favorite song on it the first time I listened to it. That's the one that everyone seems to say would work better with Peter but I love the way Phil sings the main melody line ("come on baby, let the poor thing go"). Also the story itself isn't very interesting. My main point through all that is that even if Peter does some pretty amazing things (especially on The Lamb) I feel like Phil serves the actual songs a bit better. W&W having three instrumental tracks really says a lot about the direction the band was going (and pulled back on)

W&W is mainly let down by cloudy mix and production (the only case where I think the remix/remasters bettered the original), always felt like there was a veil over the music or a blanket on the speakers. The second side of the album is tremendous.

That Ylvis song is basically just a Genesis rip-off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tYyqf0KJWY

Could be bullshit but I heard a radio DJ last week say that Collins and Gabriel are in talks for a real Genesis reunion...

They're always in talks. Genesis may be the only huge act constantly breaking up and reuniting where every member old and new is still friends.

I thought Phil could not play drums?

I have heard Phil can't drum from a whole bunch of people. Didn't know Genesis were all still friends though, doesn't Gabriel routinely refuse to sign off on reissue extras & stuff?

Money talks.

Gabriel recently acknowledged recently that them all being still alive might be good reason to consider playing together once more

collins recently returned to drumming.

i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't pull off a show or two at the 02 or something. would have to be very different from the old shows, I'd expect.

They're always in talks. Genesis may be the only huge act constantly breaking up and reuniting where every member old and new is still friends.

Would maybe put Roxy in here too, if not exactly best buddies.

the roxy thing is infuriating to me, mainly because I missed their last tour, and thought there was one coming up, but they backtracked on all their statements. I guess the album resulted in Olympia, which I like a lot, but still

Yeah, almost all the Roxy guys appear on each others records, still. Though not always all at once, and Ferry doesn't cameo.

Peter always participates in Genesis biz, but he moves so slowly they rarely wait for him.

https://store.realworld.co.uk/product-category/peter-gabriel/lego-mini-figures/

Holy shit, those are the best things ever.

https://i0.wp.com/www.musicalbrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/legoLambLive06.jpg

These have been around for a while; funny that Peter is now selling them though his official store.

Apropos of the thread:

https://progarchy.com/2015/02/01/genesis-lego/

Uh, LEGO, don;t know what Phil's been telling you but his hair was never that thick

Got a press release about that Genesis covers band The Musical Box playing Hammersmith Apollo in the spring and I am FUCKING TEMPTED

Why does Phil have "Sifilis" on his shirt?

go see the musical box they are awesome!

i have a ticket for the SF show I need to unload (show is on Monday), I'm going to be out of town. mr schwitterz?

The Musical Box are awesome! What set are they doing?

i wish akm! ill be outta town too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijNOt6e2v-o

The best one I saw them do was when they had a bald left-handed drummer who sang like Phil! Apparently they got him from (shock) a Phil tribute band.

they're doing both the black and white sets of the selling england by the pound tour. which is great; but I've seen them do those three times already so I'm not broken up about it. I did see them do the Lamb a few years ago and it was pretty much everything I'd hoped for. I hope they do it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZwg1t2iAo

Wow, that's incredible quality.

Amazing. The description of the restoration is incredible too; I'd love to see some of the outtakes where the AI thinks the curtains are made of hair. I imagine in a decade there'll be a fully immersive VR version of clips like these.

whoa, that's unbelievable. kinda want to see what the original footage looked like.

funny how the camera barely captures Steve. you almost forget he was in the band. you can hear him though

also: was Phil Collins the sexiest man in prog in the mid-70s? or does Peter Hammill take the crown?

that is some astounding clean up work. There are really very few film clips of this period (shepperton studios is the famous one) and the quality of them has been getting better and better every year as more people do restorations on them.

incredible... can't wait to see more old stuff being restored like this

Damn, that is incredible.

yeah that's the most exciting part of this to me. imagine a Magma or Can concert film like this

Original footage, FYI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2VZ645W6Ss

Pity half of 'Supper's Ready' is edited out. Still, fantastic stuff.

Saw this on the Hoffman board, can only hope it is true and photos may one day emerge:

Peter Gabriel's sister was a teacher at my primary school in the late 70s/early 80s. We had the Slipperman costume used in one of our school plays!

Let's gooooooo
https://www.stereogum.com/2145905/genesis-announce-north-american-reunion-tour/news/

why do I feel the tickets are gonna be like $300 apiece

lol because they will be? on the low end?

also lol at the "?" in the tour name.

Third, sad lol that the little Instagram announcement in that piece afaict uses the recorded versions of those songs instead of current live recordings/rehearsals. I did find these clips, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNR2YsfT37A

Which has the band rehearsing, Phil playing some drums and ... Chester also there? But I suspect this upcoming tour will probably be mostly Phil's son on drums.

And this, showing the realities of Phil trying to hit certain notes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD7om5JjYnU

And a very Spinal Tap moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpUKbHjvCCg

Actually, no idea when these rehearsals are from, maybe 2007?

they're pros with infinite money so I'm sure they'll cobble together a decent show I just don't know...how

phil's not playing drums, bummer, but obviously he just must not be able

XXP Josh that is taken from a long-form doc about the last reunion, which is pretty entertaining and has some very potent Spinal Tap moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9FuWw8ZuDo

I signed up for the pre-sale this morning. It's been 35 years since the last time I saw genesis play (also in a hockey arena). then after watching some of the rehearsal clips, i realized that attending this show would probably depress me more than anything... make me wonder how many more years until I'm not able to stay on my feet for 90 minutes. So $600 saved there, I guess?

Yeah, I thought they were great on the 2007 tour, but Phil did a very short solo tour a couple of years ago, and I thought clips from that were super sad.

ive never managed to see genesis live which is kind of insane considering how important they have been to me, so I want to do this, but dunno if I'm going to make it out to the east coast in the middle of fucking winter.

I saw them at Knebworth in 1992, a little while after my VERY INTENSE teenaged obsession with them had cooled into respectful nostalgia, and while the stuff off We Can't Dance was mostly a drag, the old epics medley at the end was great (cannot remember if Phil had outgrown all that Blues Brothers bullshit during Turn It On Again yet)

This fella does a ton of 4K restorations (Cure, Pets, Madge, Bowie, Kate Bush.. ) they’re all pretty amazing. Someone should should do Tom Waits’ Big Time as that never even saw a DVD release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC92pN2W0w8

getting a 404 there, anyone else?

Same here but I'm guessing it's the Bataclan 4k restoration shared above?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxADO52UnLI

InterlacedGeek is the username of the above YouTube account.

YouTube really is hopeless when it comes to linking people’s accounts. I bet their tech hasn’t changed in ten years

Does this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=videos

Nope no it doesn't

Here it is, 4K:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxa6SVgT8CE

A friend texted me this morning (something like "Dude, Genesis! You in?") and I told him I just couldn't do it. There have been a few beloved acts I've seen too late in their career which I probably should have skipped, since they left such a bad taste in my mouth. This tour, with Phil in a chair, supposedly backing vocalists for the first time, tickets that start at something like $300 for the nosebleeds (pre fee?) and I just couldn't do it. It'll likely be the last chance to see the group, but the way I figure it, I *did* get to see the group a few times, and this is not it. This is just a group of people that used to be in Genesis.

Same story here. My high school friend, who took me to my first concert, which happened to the Invisible Touch tour, got a bunch of tickets and is trying to talk me into it. Front row seats were $1900, but he got 4 in the rafters for $750. If I was in the same city as him, I'd probably go just for nostalgia's sake (and would probably come away disappointed).

BTW, the week before Genesis plays, The Musical Box is coming to town (playing "A Genesis Extravaganza, Volume 2"), and those tickets start at $63.

Please tell me that's $750 all in and not each ticket.

$750 all in

Genesis live, Paris Bataclan 1973 long version, 16mm master in 4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMsr7jjQF0

this high def youtube rip is incredible

the unofficial visual remasters of this material keep getting better and better

I've probably linked it before here but this guy is doing amazing restoration work on prog and art-rock films, things that are otherwise unavailable in this quality (he has an amazing restoration of Laurie Anderson's Home of the Brave, which still hasn't gotten an official HD release) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC7-qQFdlTO

well that didn't work. But the account name is BillFilm; search for BillFilm Genesis and all of that will come up.

MaresN3st's link (3 Months ago, April 15, scroll up a bit) has some technical information

BillFilm says he has overdone the noise reduction on the Shepperton '73 footage and I agree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCDm2KQL45o

vs the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZPzeJnuI-A

Overdone the compression/multi-band limiting too by the sounds of it.

The drums sound amazing and the picture is really crisp in that 1973 Paris clip. I kind of wonder if Steve Hackett slept with a cameraman's girlfriend or something, though.

Setlist from reunion tour first show

Duke’s End / Turn It On Again
Mama
Land of Confusion
Fading Lights / The Cinema Show / Afterglow (“Fading Lights” performed live since 1992)
That’s All / The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway / Follow You Follow Me (First time “That’s All” performed live since 1998)
Duchess (First time performed live since 1981)
No Son of Mine
Firth of Fifth / I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)
Domino
Throwing It All Away
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight / Invisible Touch

Encore:
I Can’t Dance
Dancing With the Moonlit Knight / The Carpet Crawlers (First time “Dancing With the Moonlit Knight” performed live since 1998)

Banks told the BBC that it didn’t make sense to bring Gabriel back because “most of the songs people know” came after his departure. However, he did stress that “We love Peter.”

lol

we're gonna do a song that everybody knows
not some acid shit bout moonlit knights and dominoes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYhI9Baq3U

jesus...

Phil sounds fucking TERRIBLE

flat all over the place, zero power, having background singers cover everything that's above middle C practically

then again, I ordered one of his pay per view specials in 1997 and even THEN I thought he sounded bad.

I thought he sounded a lot better than I expected, but no, not that good. It's just so sad. Totally unnecessary, almost a parody of the nursing home/rocker jokes people made when folks like this were merely in their '50s.

yeah I mean it feels like he's somewhere else. I get why. dude's in chronic pain and aging.

but lord, paying those prices to see that.

I hope that he legitimately wants to be doing it.

I find it hard to imagine legitimately wanting to play "I Can't Dance" but that's just me

it's gonna sound like a doom metal song now probably

Fun fact: Ray Wilson is also on tour this fall, and he sounds about 100x better than Phil in 2021. Here's his version.
Pretty glad I didn't spring for tickets... it's hard to imagine coming away from this show feeling good about it.

Jeez, Phil’s seven years younger than Daltrey, but sounds way older. Granted, their approaches are pretty different, but Phil sounds like he didn’t make any effort to keep his voice in shape at all.

Is Phil playing drums at all on these shows?

That's not great, but at least he's actually singing, unlike Roger Waters at the show I saw.

xpost Nope, Phil apparently can't even hold a drum stick. He reportedly remains seated the entire show. A review I read mentioned diabetes was among his many ailments, too. That was the first I'd read that, I think.

Jeez, Phil’s seven years younger than Daltrey, but sounds way older.

FWIW, I thought Daltrey's singing had been shakey for quite some time now, but he was surprisingly good on their 2019 album. I think someone here said he sounded better there than on any live or studio recording they've issued since Face Dances, and they're probably right. It's no masterpiece, but throw out "Beads" and "I'll Be Back" and miraculously it's actually a very good Who album.

I love Genesis, and there's no way in hell I would want to see any show on this tour, but Duchess is such a jam

all the autotune on that last Who album probably helped him a bit

Ironically enough Steve Hackett is currently touring his Genesis Revisited show around the UK as well. Could be interesting if the four of them were to bump into each other.

And a look at their respective tour dates shows that they are both playing in Manchester next Friday.

I'd seen a bunch of clips of Daltrey sounding pretty rough, but then he supposedly got surgery on his throat (for nodes or something). Weirdly enough, I got to see Roger Daltrey solo before I ever got to see the Who. It was after the surgery, in a small club, and he sounded *great*, and was super talkative, too. I think he was sort of testing the waters, warming up. When I finally saw the Who (after I'd seen *Pete* solo, too, possibly making me the only person in the world that had seen both Pete and Roger solo but *not* the Who), doing "Quadrophenia," Roger still sounded pretty great.

When I last saw Genesis (which will remain the last time I saw Genesis), Phil sounded good (and was playing drums, too). Heck, the last time I saw him solo he sounded good as well. But the last several years have been very very bad to him. He looks bad, he sounds bad. I'm in a way impressed he's got the physical *and* mental strength to go through with this at all; he doesn't need the money. On his most recent solo tour, a couple of years back (which I did not see) I understood it to be something of a limited experiment, to see if he could pull it off, and iirc it was something of a struggle for him and his team. This tour is much more extensive, with lots of consecutive nights. I hope he pulls it off, for his sake, but I don't feel comfortable being a part of this particular experiment.

There’s a lot of miming and fakery these days so when I hear people sound ‘bad’ I think ‘well at least they’re really singing’.

And for sure, even Daltrey has some pre-recorded screams in the mix.

A review I read mentioned diabetes was among his many ailments, too.

Insert Wilford Brimley diabeetus meme here

guess I'll be the person to say that these videos were much better than I expected. I do hope they come to the west coast but Phil's recent comments that this wouldn't go on past 2021 don't give me much hope for that.

yeah when singers lose their voice it happens pretty fast; Greg Lake for instance sounded pretty good on the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album (even if his voice deepened considerably), 6 years later on Black Moon he sounded horrible. I did read a good article about the injuries singers do to their voice when they don't sing properly (which I assume almost none of the rock singers of the 60s and 70s did) and yeah that surgery seems to help things considerably. So when you see someone like Todd Rundgren, who sounds almost as good now as he did back then, you wonder if they got it done, much like you wonder about any 60+ actor with a full head of hair

Gordon Lightfoot comes to mind - if you listen to his post-Edmund Fitzgerald albums chronologically (which I don't recommend you do) you can pretty much hear exactly when it started. his voice was completely shot by the age of 55 but he's still played like 30 years of shows after that. I've seen a few (he sure loves touring around Wisconsin) and it's a little sad to see...he looks fine for his age but he's skeletal and frail, far from the rugged woodsman he portrayed in his heyday, and his voice has lost all its richness and depth. fwiw Phil Collins doesn't sound that bad...you can hear that old man quiver when he tries to hold a note and I'd be nervous to watch a full show of this, but I've seen worse. seeing him up there looking like Mr. Magoo is pretty depressing though. this whole tour seems like a big mistake but hey, at least the band sounds alright

The tour's obvs been delayed a bunch, I wonder if he was in better shape when it was originally booked, and now they're on the hook for £££s if he were to cancel. We can all say "He doesn't need the money" but I wouldn't be surprised if he's been a bit shitty with his cash, for example the three divorces and getting lamped by the fake Alamo gear salesman.

I figured Phil might not be playing drums, but wondered if there was maybe some token almost-drum-solo or drum duo moment in the shows. Evidently not.

Daltrey was pretty hit-or-miss on the '06 through roughly '09 Who tours (a couple of shows were stopped one or two songs in when it was obvious he had no voice), but as JiC noted, his throat surgery made a massive difference. Yes, there's some autotune on WHO -- I can think of two tracks off the top of my head where it's obvious (three if you count one of the Pete bonus tracks) -- but there's a live "bonus" CD of an early 2020 acoustic show where he sounds as good as he's sounded since 1978. There were two pre-taped screams on the '15-'19 Who tours, in "Love, Reign O'er Me" and "Won't Get Fooled Again." I think that's acceptable: for one thing, he was doing those screams live through 2012 or so, and for another, the guy's in his mid '70s, and can't reasonably be expected to do those screams every night. Or any night.

But Daltrey always took exceptional care of his voice, and never took it for granted. Hell, in the '70s he was so intent on getting enough sleep after every show that he got addicted to Mandrax.

I was listening to Springsteen's Passaic '78 show the other night, when he was on the cusp of 30, and I marveled (as he must) at all of the extra singing, screaming, grunting, just making *sounds* he does, just to make things that much more exciting. It's amazing that guy, now on the cusp of 72, still sounds at all like he does, even if he (and no one else?) will never again sound like he did.

I assume singers of this vintage who've (mostly) maintained their voice have been doing serious vocal calisthenics, mainlining lemon-ginger tea etc. the way Tom Brady or Lebron use personal trainers year-round to stay limber.

jeez - tickets for this tour are ridiculously expensive too

i still hope they add west coast US dates :(

Currently listening to a boot of the second night and hooo boy, it's a tough listen. PC has this unpleasant tonality to his voice now. Plus the kays are lowered in some songs, TIOA is in G now and it sounds sluggish.

"Mama" basically sounds like 'Old Man River' now, from the vid I saw. like it was already lowered a few steps 13 years ago, now it's almost unrecognizable.

and he does have a weird, elfish nasal quality to his voice, which I suspect is because he's having trouble generating enough energy to produce proper tone.

All he needs now is a Slipperman costume.

The saddest thing about the clips I've seen is Phil swiveling around on his chair, like any of us might do absentmindedly while toiling away at a desk.

xpost More like bedroom slippers, right?

Other than looking like he's slowly collapsing which isn't his fault in the main, you'd think someone would say 'Hey Phil, perhaps have a shave when you go out in front of the many thousands of people who are paying £130+ to see you', he looks like absolute shit. The whole thing is shabby.

AH can't dance
AH can't shit
Only thing about me is the way I sit

I cross-referenced this thread with the Genesis subreddit and thankfully that one's a bit more cheery.

The final four UK tour dates have (inevitably) been postponed after a couple of (unidentified) band members tested positive for Covid.

They were invisibly touched

lol

I just saw a clip of them doing Home by the Sea in I think Buffalo, and wow did Phil sound so thin and weak, and the band just mechanical in its execution. So glad I (er) sat this tour out.

I don't get it - not one of the yes-men on this cynical money grabbing exercise had the balls to say "Look, Philip, you've been great and everything, but this doesn't work. We're taking (think Adam Lambert & Queen, someone great like that) on tour with us." ? I hope they're proud of their profits, at least.

Still wish they'd add an LA date

yeah I will go if this comes to the west coast. I wasn't about to travel for it, but if it's in CA, I'm absolutely going. I managed to miss every tour they have ever done.

Phil is clearly limited but the show in Glasgow was fantastic - I was pleasantly surprised at how well he carried it compared to the rehearsal clip that came out previously

What did you think of his son's drumming? I think he sounds fine but Phil's playing has so much character and his son ... not so much.

This is the clip I saw, btw. Maybe it sounded better there, but this is some weak sauce, imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPaUdSXLFw

If someone makes it a point to see them every time they tour, go for it. If someone has always wanted to see them (like, bucket list item) and hasn't yet, well, I guess now's the time.

I am in neither camp and will pass on seeing this, for all the reasons discussed.

I never noticed anything lacking about Nic's drumming really... was impressed how well he replicated the superior live arrangement of Afterglow

There's something odd about how Phil is singing consistently behind the beat, I wonder if it's a result of pain medication, of some sort.

If you look at clips from 2019, Phil already sounds noticeably worst, imo.

I don't think Nic Collins is bad at all, he just lacks a certain spark. Like Jason Bonham vs. John. But, for example, I think Zak Starkey is a pretty good son-of drummer.

(Worse, not worst. No matter how decrepit, Phil Collins is still far from the worst.)

Purportedly the last ever Genesis concert at the O2 last night. Gabriel was in the audience and really should have joined them onstage at some point, the fact that he didn't leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Obviously I don't know if consideration was given to inviting him onstage or not. If he wasn't invited, he should have been. If he was invited, he should have accepted.

yeah that's a bummer.

Maybe because it would have required rehearsal & planning, Tony Banks doesn't seem the type to spontaneously busk through the hits. Or anything else, come to that.

Disappointing for fans, but they're amicably fine with it. At least it looked that way judging from this photo:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO0k0sIWYAEaoGA?format=jpg&name=900x900

Reportedly someone in the crowd called for "Supper's Ready," and Collins mentioned that Gabriel was in the crowd, although he wasn’t sure where he was sitting. After that got a big round of applause, Collins joked that maybe Gabriel was the one calling out for "Supper's Ready."

More photos someone took of that final show - I guess they had a front row seat and a really good camera.

As a fan, the whole idea of this tour is a bummer to me, Collins is singing very poorly, his voice has changed and sounds unattractive, like some cartoonish goblin. His presence, sitting, sometimes half-slumped in a chair is jarring, the idea that he's possibly in pain and/or medicated, also.

I feel bad for everyone involved, it's a troubling way to end things. I've watched a multitude of clips and listened to boots and, imho, the whole thing is just a fucking horrorshow.

Yeah I’ve seen Gordon Lightfoot somewhat recently and got the same feeling. Appreciate the man but didn’t like seeing him like that. Every clip of this tour I’ve seen I always cringe at what Phils voice sounds like. Had they not planned this before the pandemic I don’t think it would’ve happened at all.

I was never going to see the tour myself, but it brought to mind a lot of debate over some bad tours with elderly musicians in recent years - it's hard to tell them to stay put when they're the ones demanding to be out there, in some cases because they know it may be the last time they get to experience what it's like to be on stage and surrounded by adoring fans. Yeah, there's the money obviously, but even if there was none to be made, I'd do the same in their shoes, pain be damned. If they dedicated and sacrificed so much of their life to get that, it's no surprise they'd want to hold on to it for as long as they can.

I guess the reality is we've never been in a situation where musical legends are still playing to arenas in their 80s or thereabouts before. Like, most of the blues and jazz all-timers were gone before that age and their appeal had become more selective. Whereas artists like Genesis and The Who and the Stones could keep selling out the big halls on their rep alone for the rest of their lives. I can't say I don't understand someone wanting to say they'd seen a band that they loved, but I had no desire to catch these shows (and they weren't even that great when I saw them at Knebworth in 92 or whenever).

Which is thirty years ago. Fucking hell, I'm old too.

(Saw the Who in 2019 and they were pretty great tbh)

Collins is only 71, younger than my parents, it's kind of shocking to me to see him looking like that.

When I was a teenager my Dad took me to see a few older jazz/blues musicians at the Glasgow Jazz festival, he wanted to see them at least once before the possibility of them not touring became a reality, which I totally understand and I can see why devoted fans would feel the need to go see Genesis, despite the current presentation.

But I'm sure none of those people had such debilitating health issues and the tickets were probably like £30 (in today's money) not £100++

I just grabbed a recording of the last night to hear it, he doesn't sound *too* bad maybe, idk, certainly his timing is better than the earlier shows I heard, pitching is still pretty wild tho, but I'm listening to the last tune (Carpet Crawlers), and feeling a little sad that the music that I've listened to since I was a young 'un won't ever be rendered live again.

They ended with Carpet Crawlers? That's a bit of a heart-breaker.

Wonder which music means the most to Phil overall, Genesis or his solo stuff?

I saw them in November and again last night and Phil has improved massively since back then.

If they dedicated and sacrificed so much of their life to get that, it's no surprise they'd want to hold on to it for as long as they can.

The first concert I ever saw was Count Basie And His Orchestra in early 1983. Count was 78.

I’m seeing the Who at MSG in May. Roger Daltrey is 78.

I mean if we're talking age as a factor, having seen Sparks twice recently, Ron's 76 and Russell's 73; they have the advantage that their backing band is all younger by some decades, and I did note that there's been a second keyboardist added. But Ron didn't seem any different at all, steadily playing away looking nonplussed as he always does, occasional vocal moments aside (and he still does the Ron dance). Russell was all over the stage, singing away as he always does. Maybe it's all that comfortable SoCal living.

And Russell works out regularly, based on a clip from the Sparks Brothers

The record for me is 7 or 8 weeks shy of 90 years. That was Lee Konitz on August 26, 2017, who kept on performing until COVID hit, and sadly he died from it on April 15, 2020. (Besides his age, he had health issues that made him especially vulnerable.) He was great though, as soon as he played, there was no mistaking who it was. At one point during his set, this very old couple got up and danced together, and they even seemed to move slowly from age. It made me think of something Greil Marcus's wife said when she listened to Dylan's Sinatra albums - it's sad when you realize the mass audience this music once reached was now mostly gone. Such is life, it'll happen to everything, and just further reason to catch these people while you still can. It blows my mind when I meet someone who went to Duke Ellington or Benny Goodman concerts back in the day, like BEFORE rock 'n' roll.

It's a big thing for me watching the rock generation move so rapidly towards fragility and mortality - seems to me that from 1989 on a lot of those bigger groups settled back into their "classic" sound - which has helped band and audience to perpetuate a kind of time bubble of cheerful denial where everything was fine and these guys would soldier on forever. But it's just not sustainable any more, and watching these groups accept their limitations and mourn their losses is quite profound.

Like, I don't Believe In Rock or anything, but the aftershocks of the 1960s beat boom (and I guess 50s rock, and punk, etc) - still shaped my life, and gave me a way out of suburban small-mindedness, and eventually pointed to areas of music that were more interesting - and I guess I never totally stopped believing in the power these guys accessed as teenagers, and have always sought ways to keep connected to my own teenage self. But we are clearly none of us teenagers anymore - and seeing the old ones shuffle offstage does make me think about the ephemeral nature of the value system I still kinda sort of hang onto. Like, definitely already get a sense that the Beatles or the Germs or the Blue Nile are indistinguishable from James Last to my kids which is fine and even good, but still...).

It's also tied into the mortality of my parents, who are boomers of this kind of age.

(Also really respect Bowie for going there with his songwriting in a way that I wish more people of this generation had done)

Anyway, I think a lot about Mick and Keith holding hands at the front of the stage when they introduced their first show after Charlie died. It was so vulnerable and beautiful, and unlike anything you'd associate with the Stones.

Uh sorry about the lack of Genesis-specific content in that post.

watching these groups accept their limitations and mourn their losses is quite profound.

This. For a generation of us, this is literally watching our forbears crumble away. My dad's been gone twenty years this week, but he was entirely of his geenration - did tonnes of drugs, free love, saw Hendrix, The Who, Cream, etc - and it's hard not to feel especially maudlin as the rock generation slow drifts on to the next realm.

In the wake of the death of Charlie Watts, I revived this thread with a post about a 1970 rock magazine cover story wondering about the life expectancy of 20 musicians, half of whom are still around 52 years later. Of course, they were talking about musicians dying young rather than aging per se; and in February 1970, maybe Brian Jones was the only big name rock star of that era to have already gone.
I feel like the death of George Harrison in 2001 was the "watershed" for attitudes about the loss of musicians of that generation. 58 is not old but the manner of his death and perhaps his retreat from public life beforehand made it seem more "natural". For instance, I never heard anyone say of George, as they did of Lennon, "what would he have done if he had lived"?
For so many years, there was this small canon of dead rock stars, appearing in airbrushed paintings - now those paintings would be too crowded.

I guess everyone has their notebook with their own personal favourites that will be devastating when they finally go, Ivor Cutler was the first big one for me, as odd as that sounds, we went to his last gig at the Queen Elizabeth Hall and he was so frail.

At the end he came out to the front of the stage, fingers in his ears, then after the applause died down he quietly said something along the lines of 'you all have such beautiful bright faces' and I realised at that point I wouldn't be seeing him again, it was so sad.

yeah its getting to the point where there's a "now or never" feeling to seeing your favorite bands especially given the unpredictability of Covid. I missed a King Crimson show due to my daughter getting sick (thought it was appendicitis, turned out to be a relatively harmless infection) and right after they announced that was the end. couldn't make seeing Sparks in Chicago work and now I think I'll probably never get the chance for them. Gary Numan just played Milwaukee - last show before they all tested positive for Covid - and I couldnt go because it was Spring Break and shit was too complicated with the kids. I guess I should stop making excuses b/c yeah for the first time in my life "they'll be around again" is very much not a given

Was just telling someone how frustrating it was to hardly be able to hear Ivor at that last show, although I suppose that is what he probably wanted

It was filmed by the BBC, I think I have it somewhere.

Here it is, apologies for the derailing, folks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0-vN8E3FU

COVID has definitely made things brutal. Besides Konitz, I also saw Toots & the Maytals in 2019. I was front and center holding the edge of the stage and Toots even gave me fist bump. What a wonderful man and full of life, I can't believe that was the last time he played in NY because I left thinking I was definitely seeing the next one.

And I never saw John Prine. Really sad about that.

you're not missin' much by not seeing gary numan in 2022

yeah he's been goth industrial for quite some time. I know people who are still very very into him though. Anyway, I'm still sad that I never went and saw Genesis; they toured so infrequently and the times I was passionate about them never lined up with times when they were touring. I really assumed they'd hit the west coast on this one, and it wasn't to be. At least I've seen Gabriel half a dozen times. I do make it a point now to try to see people; had I not seen Bowie on his last tour when he played right down the street from me I would have really hated myself. I'll be going to Roxy this year as well. I see McCartney every time he comes to town and each time I've assumed it was the last opportunity; guy will probably still be touring 15 years from now.

Reminds me of someone I knew who decided to see B. B. King over Stevie Ray Vaughn, thinking "I'll be able to see Stevie anytime, this might be my last chance to see B. B."... and King outlived Vaughn by 25 years.

idk I like Numan's recent stuff

xp apologies, dying young is terrible, but with the way that joke was phrased, LMAO.

Reminds me of someone I knew who decided to see B. B. King over Stevie Ray Vaughn, thinking "I'll be able to see Stevie anytime, this might be my last chance to see B. B."... and King outlived Vaughn by 25 years.

I saw Stevie Ray Vaughn and I'd give anything to take that directionless, opiated show back for a solid BB King show.

The couple of years where Bowie, prince, Mark Hollis and Scott Walker all passed away kind of ushered in a new era for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdFLl6iMek

one of the things i'm a huge nerd for is bootleg recordings

historically one of the things you find in boot circles is a sort of purism, you know, we want the whole show, including the tuning between songs, we have to listen to bob weir tell the "yellow dog" story every single time and that's never been my approach. like there's more music out there already than i can listen to

what i like about bootlegs these days is the _recording conditions_, they all _sound_ different. again some people only want bootlegs that sound _good_ and i am _not_ like that, i'm very up for shitty audience tapes. this is one of the reasons i avoided the dead for so long - i didn't even _know_ there were shitty-sounding dead audience tapes, but there's a _thriving_ audience tape fandom in dead circles these days, people who will stan for the AUD 1968-06-14 recording over the officially released board recording (and I agree with them). i worry that it's a little bit like people who prefer vinyl over cd, but with me it's not that, it's that for me it's better _because_ it's worse. the more megapixels there are in a picture, the harder it is to look good in one, you know? a little obfuscation is nice sometimes.

i'm also very into things that are _the same_ but _different_. bootlegs fill that niche for me. even if they're playing it the same way as on the album, it _sounds_ different.

so yeah i've gotten really into _the waiting room_, which i'd like to think, at least, is geir hongro's least favorite genesis song. and i said "ok i have to find every single recorded version of this song and listen to it"

i found the youtube channel of this person who's really into genesis boots in a way that... like i ain't got the time or the energy to devote that much thought to live genesis, you know? i'm a classic rock nerd and i'm very fond of live gabriel-era genesis, in large part i think because they _were_ uneven and inconsistent. gabriel didn't always hit the notes, _particularly_ at the end of the long and grueling _lamb_ tour. i was listening recently to a version of "anyway" where he sounds like fuckin' bob dylan. i kinda like that. when robert plant sounds awful i don't like it much, but when gabriel blows it i kinda like it. there's this famous bootleg of the lamb tour where there's a dramatic buildup to the first song and gabriel comes out doing his cultural appropriation bit (which is i fully acknowledge INCREDIBLY CRINGE) and starts to sing his first line and slips and falls on his face. i love that shit. there's a tape of the first gig on the european tour where a roadie does metric conversion wrong or something and puts in WAY TOO MUCH powder for the explosion at the end of "it". i mean at the time i'm sure it was terrifying, he could have fucking killed someone, chunks of the stage flew off, but knowing that nobody got hurt or killed it's _interesting_ to listen to.

anyway the person on the youtube channel, they go through the time of listening critically to all this stuff and i'm happy to use them as a secondary source to guide my listening. like things i didn't know about the tour. there are these real closed-off niche sites that i don't want to get into, i don't want to get involved in the _fan community_ because god knows how many Geirs there are in those places, nothing against them mind, i just gotta watch out what frames i put on my experiences. i didn't mess with yeeshkul, when it was around, i had the boots, but i didn't mess with yeeshkul.

anyway there's this kind of tension in the performances because gabriel's voice gets worse and worse as time goes on and instrumentally they get better and better. which isn't the same tension you see in zep, they didn't rise to new heights after plant blew his voice, though they were better in '72 than they were in '69 as a performing unit, probably. the line people usually draw is after the euro '73 tour, for plant's voice. i think that's fair. but with gabriel it's the reverse. that's what makes "the waiting room" particularly interesting, gabriel doesn't _necessarily_ sing on it (sometimes he puts in vocals or flute, later on), and the person on youtube, they say that it really starts taking off around march 29, most of the way through the euro tour - it's good before but on march 29 it becomes a completely different thing from the album version and not just an improvisation based _around_ the album version.

anyway the most interesting thing this person on youtube does is they have these painstaking meticulous edits put together, the "best versions" of any given song based on performance. with no regard given to sound quality, which i _love_ particularly. because you're hearing this song and you're hearing these drastic shifts in the soundscape sometimes within a line. and genesis is particularly rewarding for that because they _could_ be inconsistent in that way. you can say "oh he sings this line really well" and patch that in. but it's the reverse of seamless, it's obviously artificial, it draws attention to its artificiality. that's what i love about it. there are other groups you could do it with. you could do it with zep for certain - i don't know that anybody has. you could do it with van der graaf generator, i'm _pretty sure_ nobody has done it with them, unfortunately.

anyway this is the channel i'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/@KieranIsHome

Hard agree on this subject, I've been obsessed with boots since I was old enough to be able to attend record fairs and to peruse the tempting slabs of tapes that several of the record shops in Glasgow had laid out on their counters.

I feel exactly the same decades later and check D1m3 everyday, I have done since it was called Sharing The Groove, totally agree that a recording doesn't have to be EX, MX, FM or SB to capture your interest.

It has always mystified me how some bands that I liked to collect were very well served by live recordings (Floyd, The Bunnymen, The Cure, New Order, XTC) and some really are not (Cocteau Twins, Hawkwind, Laurie Anderson, Gong) all I can say is thank fuck for European radio stations (and the BBC)

I love shabby old festival or outdoor concert recordings where you can feel the texture of the crowd's responses and mood, recently I was listening to a pretty average recording of Roy Harper at the Ripon Rock Festival in 1984, it was most probably a dismal affair and the crowd sound so angry, (perhaps because the acts played quite far behind a big metal fence)

Similarly something like Pink Floyd at the Crystal Palace Bowl in 1971, the recordings are pretty rubbish but vibey in an unusual way, I think because crowds are more present where the music is often backgrounded by distance and amplified into open space and it flips the balance.

That Genesis site is great, thanks. I just listened to a Lamb tour soundcheck that was 10 mins of a sound guy saying 'test' over and over, that's real commitment to preservation.

oh, god yes, when bootlegs slide into outright ephemera? i _live_ for ephemera. that's why i binge on doctor who blu-rays. "here's an off-air recording of a BBC announcer promoting the next episode of _a question of sport_ right before the original broadcast of part 2 of "time-flight"." that's literally on one of the blu-rays.

With you on that one too, gimme a 10 min continuity slideshow of the set design from The Moonbase and I'm happy.

i was listening recently to a version of "anyway" where he sounds like fuckin' bob dylan

Pretty sure this is an intentional homage, though I never considered he might be doing it to give his voice a rest!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ1AlDUhu28

Getting older has its plusses and minuses, but no joke, one of the best things about getting older is encountering people that have no idea how good a drummer Phil Collins was.

This Chester or Bruford era? Don't think I've ever seen Phil hand-drumming like during In the Cage before, and love him at the tympani at the start of Volcano. Wish the tracks weren't truncated tbh, but grateful for what's here.

It's Chester, isn't it? Think I see his head behind the cymbal on the drum duet

Bruford drummed with them in 1976, Chester was well established by this point.

Huge Genesis drop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3WWWSl35MU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ3hP51hTuA

http://www.youtube.com/@KieranIsHome

That last link is a host of soundboards.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZDBgECVwIyZK-RBZy0xFwWSLXZoB46iI

This is the full list of the leak, have grabbed everything up to before '92, and I'm not so fussed about Phil live, but I guess this Kieran guy will float them all on YT before long.

1973-01-10 Paris (VID)
1974-03-01 Passaic (SBD, tape 1 only)
1974-09-xx Lamb rough mixes and outtakes
1974-11-21 Chicago (OAM)
1976-07-09 Glasgow (SBD)
1976-07-10 Stafford (SBD, tape 2 only)
1977-02-24 Boston (SBD, tape 2 only)
1977-03-03 Quebec City (SBD)
1978-10-14 Chicago (SBD)
1978-10-22 Houston (SBD)
1980-04-28 Glasgow (SBD)
1980-06-30 Saratoga Springs (SBD)
1981-11-14 Rosemont (SBD)
1981-11-28 NYC (SBD)
1981-11-29 Uniondale (SBD, tape 2 only)
1981-11-30 Landover (SBD)
1981-12-02 Hartford (SBD)
1981-12-05 Ottawa (SBD)
1981-12-11 Syracuse (SBD)
1982-07-31 Peoria (SBD)
1982-08-01 Peoria (SBD, one tape only)
1982-08-07 Berkeley (SBD)
1982-08-13 Dallas (SBD)
1982-08-18 Clarkston (SBD)
1982-08-29 Montreal (SBD, tape 1 only)
1982-09-21 Birmingham (SBD, tape 2 only)
1982-09-30 London (SBD, tape 2 only)
1983-11-25 Philadelphia (AUD)
1983-11-26 Philadelphia (AUD)
1983-12-01 Hartford (SBD)
1983-12-02 Syracuse (SBD)
1983-12-07 Pittsburgh (SBD)
1983-12-10 Norfolk (OAM)
1984-01-12 Inglewood (SBD)
1984-02-01 Indianapolis (SBD, tape 1 only)
1984-02-16 Reno (SBD, tape 2 only)
1984-02-17 Las Vegas (SBD)
1984-02-20 Oakland (SBD)
1984-02-25 Birmingham (SBD, tape 1 only)
1986-10-01 NYC (SBD)
1986-10-03 NYC (SBD)
1986-12-17 Sydney (SBD, tape 2 only)
1987-02-01 Lexington (SBD)
1992-04-30 Houston, 1992-06-18 Los Angeles, 1992-06-25 Tinley Park (VID)
2007-04-25,26 Cossonay (SBD)

Phil Collins
1983-01-24 Fort Worth (SBD)
1985-02-07 Shepperton (SBD)
1985-02-08 Shepperton (SBD)
1985-02-09 Shepperton (VID)
1985-04-03 Sydney (VID)
1985-05-29 Dallas (SBD)

oyh nice, thanks for the hu on this

taken down :(((

Yeah, just saw that, I wouldn't fuck with Tony Smith, I bet he shouted very loudly at someone.

Oh, just seen that *all* the torrents on the Genesis movement website have been nuked, fuck, hope they don't go for d1m3

I assume someone saved them all, as they did with that Van Halen treasure trove?

Wish I had managed to grab some of the live Lamb shows and the Collins studio stuff but did manage a few 80-81 gigs. Great shows!

I think there are some mirror sires on reddit if you have a scout around