best Sonic Youth album of the '80s

sister without a second thought

As a heads up to potential complainers -- I left out the self-titled EP (which will show up in some dude's comp/EP/live/misc. poll) as well as Made in USA, which is not a true SY studio album.

Sister (1987) 36
Daydream Nation (1988) 35
EVOL (1986) 15
Bad Moon Rising (1985) 9
Confusion Is Sex (1983) 3
Sonic Youth (1982) 2
Made in USA (1986) 0

this is my ranking except move "confusion is sex" above BMR

gotta be boring and vote for DN. it is a totem.

EVOL 4 all time

Bad Moon Rising by leaps and bounds, then Evol, and Sister close together, with another huge drop to Confusion Is Sex and Daydream Nation, and far in the rear The Whitey Album.

This is going to be really boring if everyone votes Daydream Nation.

Seems weird to not include "made in the u.s.a." because it's not a proper SY album, then include the whitey album, which was released under a totally different name and included different people, but you know, quibbles.

sister without a second thought

otm

Confusion is Sex - not being contrarian, I really think this is the most raw, exciting record they ever made

EVOL always and forever.

No Sonic Death option?

^ probably more of a live alb, no?

EVOL is one of my favorite albums by anyone.

Sister today.

"^ probably more of a live alb, no?"

Doesn't specify studio up above, plus it's not like it's a straight live recording of a show ala Walls Have Ears. It's pretty heavily chopped up IIRC.

EVOL OBV

VBO LOVE

i love evol, but -- and this is going to upset the evol lovers (or should that be evol srevol) -- I'm not crazy about some of the production, mainly the drums.

BMRILU

Sonic Death/Made In USA/self-titled/Kill Yr Idols/Hold That Tiger/Walls Have Ears/Master Dik/etc. will be in my miscellaneous poll later on fwiw

The correct answer is: any tape/CD with "Death Valley '69," "Expressway To Yr Skull," "Green Light," and "Kotton Krown" back to back.

I can't believe user name ilxor forgot that option

completely arbitrary reason for voting EVOL: i listened to it on the first day of HS (in reality, it's a close tie btwn that and sister)

hold that tiger is utterly amazing

Screaming Fields Of Sonic Love has 3 of those songs in close succession so I'll make sure that's an option on the miscellany poll.

xpost

yesssss Hold That Tiger = my favorite SY 80s recording. Will vote for that in the live albums poll.

oh man, there is nothing more disappointing than googling song lyrics and discovering that the "Death Valley '69" lyric you thought went "kill her" actually says "hit it"

sister > bad moon rising > evol >>>>> whitey album > daydream nation > confusion is sex

that seems fair, never "got" EVOL tho, and I'd definitely rate Bad Moon Rising above Sister. More than most it sounds like the pale, surfacing corpse of some stadium rock epic that has drowned.

yea i go back and for between BMR and sister. also, i mainly like sister for the 1st half, which is pretty much perfect. i could even narrow that down to 'schizophrenia' and 'catholic block.' possibly the best thing they've ever done IMO. same goes for 'intro' into 'brave men run' on BMR

"Kotton Krown" is my very favorite SY bask-in-sound-for-its-own-sake moment ("Theresa's Sound-World" is second).

xp reason I don't rate Sister so highly is because those peaks kinda tower too much, I only really listen to them when I put it on.

Whenever I think about this, it always makes me a little sad since Confusion, Bad, and Evol seem to represent three very distinct, very interesting ways that the band could have gone. Then Sister tightens up Evol, for what's generally my vote for strongest album, though you could kind of feel the world catching up with them on that.

By Daydream Nation, it's pretty clear what's going to happen to the band going forward. And the noisy bits are starting to sound obligatory, and much less "composed" than they used to.

The one I listen to the most nowadays isn't on the poll (first EP), so, strongest album of these is probably Sister. Most interesting road not taken is Bad Moon Rising (wish to hell they'd kept working w/tape loops tying things together and w/the more rhythmic stuff). Best sustained (bad) mood is Confusion, which is also a lot more melodic and structured than people give it credit for.

Evol sorta sits as their Sgt. Pepper (clearly the first one where their iconography goes all psychedelic).

Have to sit in the thinking chair to decide which aspect adds up to "best."

EVOL and Sister are basically equally good, but EVOL was more personally important to me (first album I really fell in love with.)

EVOL

full ranking would go
EVOL > DN > Sister > Whitey > BMR > Confusion

Sister, but only by a very, very narrow margain over EVOL.

Actually, no, not really that narrow. Sister is the best album SY ever did.

I used to think Sister was best, but for the last 10 years I've been an Evol guy.
Evol>Sister>Bad Moon Rising>Daydream Nation>Confusion.

sister never stuck with me, i find it's too awkward. i mean all sonic youth is awkward, but on sister methinks it goes a bit too far. i can't help imagine them standing, knees wobbling, holding their guitars in lanky arms and singing these bad lyrics really clearly so you can hear all the words perfectly. maybe the vocals are too high in the mix? obv catholic block and schizophrenia and hotwire my heart are still amazing though.

Evol fans should check out the Austin TX 1986 show where they debut a bunch of that album -- loose, but in the best way.

^ great boot

prefer the paradiso boot from the same era

xpost did they sorta semi-officially release that one? fan club style? i'll have to check out the paradiso one, haven't heard that ...

you should put some of their boots (Walls Have Ears esp. please!) up on yr blog, tyler.

xps

can walls have ears really be considered a boot?

well, it ain't officially available to buy is it?

but yeah, i'll get around to posting some SY soon! there are some excellent shows from all eras ...

it was an "official" bootleg put out on Blast First sublabel NOT.

Whenever I think about this, it always makes me a little sad since Confusion, Bad, and Evol seem to represent three very distinct, very interesting ways that the band could have gone. Then Sister tightens up Evol, for what's generally my vote for strongest album, though you could kind of feel the world catching up with them on that.

good point, interesting ideas, i'm picking up what you're putting down

By Daydream Nation, it's pretty clear what's going to happen to the band going forward. And the noisy bits are starting to sound obligatory, and much less "composed" than they used to.

ya lost me

i only have it on vinyl, with no way to convert to digital. *sob*

xps

"^ great boot"

I thought they put this out on CD themselves for like a fanclub release?

I get the "obligatory" noise comment - that's my main problem with goo, it's like they had to keep making noise cuz they were sonic youth but it wasn't really integrated into what they were doing anymore

here

http://johnnylove-fuzztone.blogspot.com/2009/03/sonic-youth-walls-have-ears-london.html

pssst http://johnnylove-fuzztone.blogspot.com/2009/03/sonic-youth-walls-have-ears-london.html

oh shit xpost, you beat me to it

thanking all y'all kindly. <3<3<3

the biggest lesson I've learned from these threads is that apparently Sonic Youth have a big on/off switch marked "NOISE" that they flick at will, and that sometimes they do so for the right reasons, and sometimes for the wrong reasons.

xpost i might have to DL that one myself -- i have a burned copy of Walls but the sound is kinda bizarre. is the sound just bizarre on everyone's copies or is it a weird mp3 thing on mine?

http://www.discogs.com/Sonic-Youth-Live-At-The-Continental-Club/release/1773255

Yeah this was an official release. I had this CD for a while, but I think I sold it during a poorer day.

I got Walls Have Ears on CD some time in the late 90s, I think it sounds pretty good although it's been a while since I've listened to it. The version of Death Valley '69 with Steve drumming is really, really good on that.

1. Bad Moon Rising
2. The Whitey Album (as Ciccone Youth)
3. Daydream Nation
4. Confusion Is Sex
5. EVOL
6. Sister

(based on impact on high school self; but since I collected them all within the space of a year, they had a cumulative effect ... they're all pretty good)

Sister
Daydream
Bad Moon Rising
EVOL
Confusion
Whitey

yeah, being a teenager in the 90s and devouring the band's first 8 albums within the course of a year or two was definitely a "cumulative effect" thing for me too

xpost

1. EVOL
2. Sister
3. Daydream
4. Confusion
5. Bad Moon Rising (CD version w/ Death Valley and the awesome Flower/Halloween single)

I mean, I would drive around to different record stores and only look in the "S" section for a while there ...

s/t, Sonic Death, Bad Moon Rising and Sister on CD; Daydream Nation, Confusion is Sex, Whitey Album and EVOL on cassette; Kill Yr Idols and Master=Dik on vinyl

There was a brief period in the early 90s when Sonic Youth albums were really hard to find pre-Geffen's reissue program. I made a lot of tapes for people back then.

I got mine on 2nd hand vinyl from Missing in Glasgow around 92/93

once i though Daydream Nation, now i know i was wrong.
Sister all the way

i got into SY thru their 90s albums, sister is of course much more raw and shapeless but also, on the whole, sharper and faster... steve shelley is given almost a lead role on a lot of it. my big problem with SY going forward, especially post 00, is how rhythmically uninteresting it is, relatively

I got Confusion Is Sex, Bad Moon Rising, Daydream Nation & Sister all in the same HMV sale c1997 for £5 each. Thought Sister was the best then and still do.

my big problem with SY going forward, especially post 00, is how rhythmically uninteresting it is, relatively
was actually thinking the same thing while listening to The Eternal (which i like quite bit) -- Shelley seems reigned in these days, whereas he used to be a hell of an exciting drummer. I think he still does interesting stuff occasionally, but it's nothing compared to how thrilling some of his stuff was back in the day.

experimental jet set was the first album of theirs i bought, and i've listened to it all of twice (tho these threads have made me want to go back to it). confusion is sex came next iirc

yea i feel like shelley has just been coasting since, well, 'goo' basically. has made it difficult for me to care that much about 90s-00s SY tbh.

He's still an excellent drummer, though, even if he's not showy. Lots of crisp locked-in beats.

I'll be a contrarian and vote for what now appears to be the underdog, Daydream Nation.

EVOL, please. It was the first SY album I heard, after being put off the band for years by 'Little Trouble Girl'.

it's interesting to see how varied people's rankings are, here's mine:

EVOL
Bad Moon Rising
Confusion Is Sex
Sister
Daydream Nation
The Whitey Album (as Ciccone Youth)

found a link to that Paradiso 86 show mentioned above :D http://www.guitars101.com/forums/f90/sonic-youth-1986-05-11-amsterdam-sbd-87396.html

my ranking:

Daydream Nation/Sister (to pick one of these is just about impossible)
Bad Moon Rising
EVOL
Confusion is sex
Whitey

Bad Moon
Sister
Daydream
Evol
Confusion

daydream
sister
bad moon
confusion
evol

i think there are songs on bad moon/confusion/evol that are among sonic youth's best, but as albums, daydream and sister work as stronger statements.

Yeah the earlier albums are hella lopsided imo. I love the idea of Evol but "Tom Violence" bores me to hears.

Top 10:

1. Sister
2. Walls Have Ears
3. Confusion Is Sex
4. Evol
5. Bad Moon Rising
6. Daydream Nation
7. Kill Yr Idols
8. Sonic Youth
9. Master-Dik Beat On The Brat
10. The Whitey Album

Never heard Made In The USA

I have a hard time choosing between BMR and EVOL, but I went with the former.

what the heck:

1. Walls Have Ears / Sister
3. Daydream Nation
4. Confusion Is Sex
5. EVOL
6. Bad Moon Rising
7. The Whitey Album (as Ciccone Youth)

i used to have loads of SY 80s boots. Probably got them on a dvdr somewhere. They were on an external hd with loads of other bootlegs from bands that died last year.

what bands died last year

Daydream Nation
Sister

The rest

Confusion
Sister
Evol
Bad Moon

Ciccone

Daydream

There were supposed to be more spaces between Ciccone and Daydream...

the code auto-detects challops

There are bivalves on ilxor?

sister
daydream
evol
confusion
bad moon

I love EVOL's ominous quietness, and its breakthrough quality remains intact, at least for me. I still listen to it more often than the inarguably boss Sister and Daydream Nation. Confusion Is Sex would be a close second.

Daydream Nation
Sister

The rest

― kornrulez6969,

Finally some sanity!!

Leaving aside the fact that I like Confusion best of all, there can't be many bands where most people really seem to think album number six is actually the best.

KJB you mad

evol or daydream

Forgot how cool EVOL is. I'll go with that one.

Leaving aside the fact that I like Confusion best of all, there can't be many bands where most people really seem to think album number six is actually the best.

The Beatles?

Yeah I don't think its as uncommon as you'd think it is.

Sclavunos for life!

"Leaving aside the fact that I like Confusion best of all, there can't be many bands where most people really seem to think album number six is actually the best."

Plenty of folks out there love Sabotage, British Steel, Somewhere in Time, Angel Rat, etc.

Physical Graffiti... Painful...

what about a "best sonic youth record of the 70's"?
now that is challenging poll!

i was trying to think songs by other bands that sound exactly like Sonic Youth songs for a poll ... but I wasn't getting far.

there can't be many bands where most people really seem to think album number six is actually the best.

You'd be surprised...

i was trying to think songs by other bands that sound exactly like Sonic Youth songs for a poll ... but I wasn't getting far.

How about a Best Band Overtly Influenced by Sonic Youth poll?

what about a "best sonic youth record of the 70's"?
now that is challenging poll!

It could be done. Metal Machine Music, No New York, Et Cetera, Sand, some free jazz, etc.

Sonny Sharrock would pwn that poll.

No way. All about Hawkwind.

Oh yes Hawkwind! Forgot about them. Maybe Cosmic Jokers too.

Listen to the guitar playing on "Whippings and Apologies" by Sparks, there are some total SY guitarisms there (and it is just a great great song). Thurston is a professed fan, so perhaps some direct quoting.

no love for s/t :(

I think it's being counted as an EP.

I am a Bad Moon diehard, all the way. Nothing sounds better to me, it is so much more loose and unstructured than the others.

what about a "best sonic youth record of the 70's"?

MX-80 Sound - Hard Attack amirite?

Voting for Confusion Is Sex here. For a record I've heard a zillion times, it still sounds tense and exciting.

great to see so much love for the early records. BMR is fantastic. Daydream Nation is going to win though, because it sounds like REM.

It didn't win the original poll so I hope not.

Daydream Nation is my LEAST favorite of these. De-evolution in practice.

Fascinated by Zeno's "Best Sonic Youth Album of the 70's" idea - a mix should be assembled!

I reckon some Chrome is needed, perhaps 'ST37' of 'Alien Soundtracks', along with suitable tracks from the other artists cited above.

yeah a mix of the 70s roots of SY would be cool - obv. would need branca/chatham/theoretical girls

What KISS track to include, though?

"Strutter," obv. Sampled on Master=Dik

my 70s Sonic Youth album would include Helen Fordsdale by Mars and The Helicopter Spies by Swell Maps, a song who's intro has always sounded amazingly Sonic Youth-y to me. It would also be smart to license Computer Dating by Theoretical Girls and something off Branca's The Ascension. Send all inquiries to me.

Actually, a Sonic Youth curated influences/back to mine kind of thing would be pretty awesome.

I can practically smell the mixes brewing across ilx-land.

looking forward to those.

voting Daydream Nation.

Some ZZ Top, maybe

Sister
Daydream Nation
EVOL

Daydream Nation is going to win though, because it sounds like REM.

― Soukesian, Friday, July 17, 2009 6:48 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

o_O

love those weird tunings on Everybody Hurts

yeah a mix of the 70s roots of SY would be cool - obv. would need branca/chatham/theoretical girls

― tylerw, Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:23 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark

red transistor ftw

Daydream Nation is going to win though, because it sounds like REM.

Yeah. Sister always reminded me of Jody Watley.

also in the sy influences corner, monitor's "in terrae interium" and "I saw dead jim's shade"

and The Breakfast Club's "Right On Track."

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKAunVtF-xs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojRgNfBRR4g

tbh i was kind of bummed that the last time I saw them most of the token '80s songs (Tom Violence, Death Valley, Shadow Of A Doubt) were the same ones they were playing when i started seeing them live a decade ago.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

awesome results!!! glad bad moon rising got so many votes too. these days i would far rather hear evol/sister/bad moon rising ahead of daydream.

in honor of this momentous occasion, i just posted a great Sister-era SY show on my blog: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/

Do you know what town that show was in? I saw a bunch of the Sister shows, and it was interesting how half-formed the performances of the songs were at the start, even though the record was already recorded. Pacific Coast Highway fell apart so much at the Electric Banana, they didn't even finish it, IIRC. By the end of the year, they were killing it though.

It's from a show at the Cat's Cradle in North Carolina ... http://www.luxnet.at/sonic-youth/record-180.html (i only posted the 1987 tracks, there are bonus tracks from later on)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hsXXEcIwM0&feature=related

i think that whole gig must be on youtube

that's a lot of votes. I think I agree with the order, except with Confusion is Sex above Bad Moon Rising. I've never heard Made in USA, which is odd since a late teenage obsession finds me owning about 40 Sonic Youth releases, a good number of which I'll probably never listen to again.

When I was about 18 Confusion is Sex was my favourite, I can't remember if I was being a silly contrarian or if it was because it tapped into something that I had wanted for years but in my limited knowledge didn't know actually existed.

fascinating lookback from original sy drummer richard edson, beautiful detailed portrait of early 80s downtown nyc scene in the bargain.

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/28/growing_up_in_sonic_youth_partner/

My memory isn't perfect. I know I've read that anecdote about Thurston bleeding all over the drums, but part of my brain keeps thinking that I read it in an interview with Jim Sclavunos (maybe in BB Gun). I could be completely wrong. My old zines got destroyed in a flood, so checking would be a pain. Does anyone have access to the source material?

Wait, so the parking valet in Ferris Bueller's Day Off was the original drummer in Sonic Youth?
*mind blown*

fun read, but even better is that it made me listen to Konk. never heard them and they're great.

sister without a second thought

― goole, Tuesday, 14 July 2009 17:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

I didn't vote, but yup

Tbh, the huge amounts of love EVOL gets at the top of this thread kinda makes my day

EVOL is one of the greatest albums of the 80s, absolutely monumental

^cosign

kind of stunned at the idea of there being 200 ilxors who know all these albums well enough to vote. not a zing or anything - just don't think of there being that many people here at all, let alone that much consistent overlap in listening taste, but i probably hang out on the wrong threads. or is this lurker vote syndrome?

i don't know any of these albums btw. i own murray street and i remember liking sonic nurse when my roommate would play it, as with jim o'rourke's insignficance. does 80s sonic youth deliver the same goods or am i good with the 2000s stuff?

does 80s sonic youth deliver the same goods or am i good with the 2000s stuff?

Yes, it delivers a great deal of goods. Daydream Nation is as good as advertised. Sister too.

Different goods, but I mean if you like those 2000s records you should go listen to the earlier incarnation. Every single 80s SY album has at least 2-3 absolutely killer songs (though that is a low estimate, I like way more than 2-3 songs on each album, just feel that there are 2-3 UNDENIABLE songs on each one).

If "Murray Street"/"Sonic Nurse" worked for you, head immediately to "Expressway To Yr Skull" form EVOL and "Schizophrenia" from Sister and see if they wet your whistle. Obviously everyone on here would have their own songs to throw in, but those are pretty good gateways to the early-ish days. Certainly two songs that do not get old for me.

cool, thanks! will check 'em later. i remember being surprised by those albums and how song-y and melodic they seemed. my impression had previously been that sonic youth were more of like a wall of random aggressive noise or something.

what's a good sister-era show to get a recording of? liking the brixton academy show (post-dirty) and i wish i could hear more of the sister songs in non-album performances

(and is there really no sister thread?!?)

"Hold That Tiger" was available thru their website for a time:

▸ A1 Intro 0:43
▸ A2 Schizophrenia 4:30
▸ A3 Tom Violence 2:43
▸ A4 White Cross 2:57
▸ A5 Kotton Krown 4:05
▸ A6 Stereo Sanctity 3:27
▸ A7 Brother James 3:22
▸ A8 Pipeline / Kill Time 4:03
▸ A9 Catholic Block 3:55
▸ B1 Tuff Gnarl 3:26
▸ B2 Death Valley '69 4:50
▸ B3 Beauty Lies in the Eye 2:40
▸ B4 Expressway to Yr. Skull 4:32
▸ B5 Pacific Coast Highway 4:59
▸ B6 Loudmouth 2:01
▸ B7 I Don't Wanna Walk Around You 1:33
▸ B8 Today Yr. Love, Tomorrow the World 2:00
▸ B9 Beat on the Brat 2:41

oh yeah i used to have that somewhere

any other bootlegs?

Be My Sister In Death?

"Hold That Tiger" is really good imo. I am sure there are copies out there if you want it, but a good set list and good quality recording.

I sold my Hold That Tiger CD a few years ago, only got a few quid for it so it's not rare if you want a physical copy (I did rip it first)

there's a few shows from Maxwell's in early 87 when they're debuting the Sister material that's a great listen - everything's falling apart, Thurston starts playing Crucifucks songs, they've got TVs up on stage with them that cause tons of hum, etc. I don't have a copy anymore unfortunately, but I'll take a look around and see if it's still up somewhere. Sister's my favourite album period, so over the years I've heard most of the shows.

https://www.themckenzietapes.com/tapes/2018/4/24/0trmkz2yal6ct5d4xusp9s1swy4eym

https://www.themckenzietapes.com/tapes/2018/4/24/sonic-youth-at-maxwells-04-23-1987

^ this guy oughta wear a trench coat with wares hanging from the inside

I knew Tyler would know exactly what I meant, which is half the reason I didn't bother to look it up first, haha. Thanks man.

Hold That Tiger is on Spotify, btw (not if this fact was implied in the above convo)

*not sure if...

(btw - I'm not a big SY fan, but I'm enjoying this particular live album!)

the ramones covers on Tiger are wonderful

my fave version of Today Your Love