Black Metal vs Death Metal

I never cared for Death Metal at all apart from Entombed for some reason. I have no interest in horror movies so a musical version never interested me. Also I dont want to get too thurston moore here, but I always found it all a bit too technical (yes laughable as i love math-rock and prog) Still don't care for it but i do like Doom/Death stuff like Coffins, though the DM grunting I still dont care for.

Black Metal I refused to listen to due to the neo-nazi connotations which was rather daft looking back to it. I started to like SOME BM when I checked out Weakling in 2001 due to the Fucking Champs connection (yes say lol indie if you must) but it clicked. But it was pretty much a one off til 3/4 years ago when i started checking Dead Raven Choir and Wolfmangler then onto out other stuff. Now ive even checked out the norwegian stuff i refused to listen to before and liked it! I like the raw stuff as much as he experimental avant garde stuff. I'm never going to be a BM stan but there's a lot of really great stuff I've heard but im sure there's more to be heard. Lots of doom and black metal bands mix it all together now and that appeals to me. I just find the BM style more interesting and a willingness to experiment which suits me, if not others.

Anyway tell me your thoughts.

and yes i do like Wolves In The Throne Room.

I do wonder if this is going to be a Europe prefers BM versus America prefers DM as I've seen on other boards.

i like both BM and DM. probably some of the unquantified third option, too.

what i'm saying is why you gotta sophie's choice us?

the latter option is only for those who like avant garde bm but dont like the rest of BM

I haven't heard that much black metal, outside of Emperor's "In the Nightside Eclipse", which I dl'd, listened to a few times and didn't really like.

I went through a death phase last year when I found my fiance's secret Morbid Angel CD hidden deep in a desk drawer. I downloaded a bunch of stuff that I loved back in middle school (Death's Spiritual Healing, Obituary's Cause of Death, Deicide's Legion) and found that I like it even better now than I did at the time. I tried out some more adventurous, progressive stuff too (later Death, Atheist) and it really didn't suit my tastes.

Am I right in thinking that death metal has always been far more popular than black metal in the USA? (basing this on cannibal corpse appearing in a film)

won't be any surprise that I'm voting death metal. the uninteresting death metal : uninteresting black metal ratio seems pretty much even right now but I think death metal when it's good really understands vibe better than black metal does. I think really the other-genre equivalency here is post-punk (death metal) vs. goth (black metal), although uncle thurston wouldn't like to hear that. I got a goth heart but I can't kid myself, none of the goth bands are as good as the best post-punk bands (well, almost none), and only a handful of the black metal bands (Darkthrone, Immortal, Gorgoroth, Mayhem at their best) do for me what the best death metal bands (Autopsy, Gorguts, Death, Atheist) do.

obviously on ilx black metal will win by blowout though, lol technical playing + not as exotic, that's not an insult but the whole black metal mythos makes it harder to resist than the sorta beefy-beerdrinkin-dude-comin-outta-the-yngwie-tradition image of death metal guitarists.

obviously on ilx black metal will win
you think? I always thought (on the rolling metal thread at least) that death metal was way more popular.

id say that BM was more like post-punk myself but whatever i do get your goth point. So i guess its not really fair to compare bm or dm to post punk at all. surely dm would be prog in that case?

at which point someone will point out post punk is prog punk

then geir will pop in to say symphonic rock is best

so on that note, j0hn, who are The Beatles of death metal and black metal?

Beatles of Death Metal - Death?

I don't think there is one for either genre, which is is part of what I like about both genres - no king to kill, no great-god-almighty whose standard is universally acknowledged

if you wanted a broader genre equivalency it'd really be country (death metal) vs. rock (black metal) - this isn't in terms of the social images of either term, about which who gives a shit, but questions like what's the general standard of musicianship, how strict are the genre confines & what do people who want to stretch them do, and also in a source -> tributary sense

if you wanted a broader genre equivalency it'd really be country (death metal)

lol I hope chuck will be along soon naming country acts with lyrics about horror movies. There must be a country-gore group somewhere, right? A DM spinoff band. If not, why not?
Any country-goth bands?

Not an enormous fan of either, but do have many death metal faves (Carcass, Morbid Angel,etc.). I cant really stand black metal at all.

yeah, for Chuck Big and Rich is death metal, and Kix is black metal.

There must be a country-gore group somewhere, right? A DM spinoff band.

Jeff Walker & Die Flüffers - Welcome to Carcass Cuntry

ahh yes, of course.

And then there's wrnlrd, a one man bm act from Arlington with bluegrass influences. Guess that should've been the other way around, bm = c&w, dm = bluegrass.

i should've put a Hood option in for louis

The Cobalt album from this year has a biggish country influence at certain points... but doesn't sound very BM all that much so eh

Only death is real

― Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Saturday, February 7, 2004 2:47 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark

vs.

http://i27.tinypic.com/14c8sv9.jpg

(still voting black though :-) )

you're so european stan ;)

Death metal for me without question. John summed up a lot of the arguments I'd make, but the fundamental one is that the basic sonic framework of black metal (the ultra-trebley guitars, the lack of rhythmic complexity, the high-pitched screeching vocals) is something I can only take in very, very small doses, particularly on disc. Black metal can work live - the recent Marduk show in NYC was terrific, with a full, roaring sound from all the bands on the bill - but on disc, for me anyway, it starts out annoying and then has to add elements to mitigate the basic annoyance factor.

i love a lot of black metal, but its death for me all the way. as a metal fan, i'm probably 40% doom, 30% death, 15% black, 15% other stuff. my roots are sabbath and judas priest and punk/hardcore. other then the biggest thrash bands and crossover bands of the 80's i didn't listen to ENDLESS amounts of thrash in the 80's. heck, once i heard slayer i never really needed to listen to overkill or exodus again (no offense to overkill or exodus. i actually listen to them more now!). um, that's just a way of saying that i WELCOMED death metal with open arms. cuz it was basically everything i loved about my fave bands like d.r.i. and discharge and ssd and celtic frost and slayer rolled up into one big awesome scary ball.

love them both, but ive chosen blackness

yay, I am an influence

youre just here to see if ill mess up and post u-lv.er without bypassing your tricksiness

...maybe

Black metal for basically all the reason unperson picked against it.

If I saw more live metal shows, I might choose black metal, because I enjoy its visual style and theatrical OTTness. But I've been disappointed a few too many times by black metal albums I really wanted to like. Death metal rarely disappoints in the same way, maybe because of the genre/musicianship expectations mentioned upthread.

I think a doom option might have swept this poll.

I've been scanning these threads and not reading them in-depth, so if someone could point me towards the discussion where the distinction between black metal and death metal was laid out, I'll go there and not try to recreate that conversation here.

death metal is more "urrrurruurrrruurrrrrr" black metal is more "yiiyiiyiiyiiiii"

it works better if you are here in the room with me while i do the noises

That makes it seem like death metal is a German shepherd and black metal is a chihuahua.

That's not inaccurate although the mexican-ish of black metal is kind of toned down most of the time.

I think a doom option might have swept this poll.

Which is why it was kept to DM vs BM. Doom won the other metal genre polls.

ha

I guess I should get to the point; I like Emperor, Therion and Opeth, so does that mean I should vote black or LJ?

Which is why it was kept to DM vs BM. Doom won the other metal genre polls.

Makes sense to me. The other problem would have been trying to decide what kind of dog does doom metal vocals.

Actually, the vocals on the first couple of Esoteric albums sound exactly like a really big dog barking one floor down from where you are.

i think the last time there was a metal genre poll there was 50 options and still people complained about subgenres that were missing.

I'll do a Doom vs Thrash poll if you want.

Thrash vs Doom

the latter option is only for those who like avant garde bm but dont like the rest of BM

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 14:03 (7 hours ago) Bookmark

What if you DO like the rest of BM?

Need to hear more DM before voting.

if you like all bm you vote bm obviously

What is avant garbe BM? Ulver? Later Emperor/Enslaved? Or just American BM?

Louis you must hear http://open.spotify.com/album/5nrZejD99ZmAXrmrouIJcU

and even more
http://www.headbanger.us/gallerie_e/bilder/entombed_wolverine_blues_front.jpg

which is easily in my top 10 metal albums of all time. prob the 1st "extreme metal" album i bought (if you dont include Godflesh or industrial stuff as 'metal'

What would Absu be classified as?

haha i remember reading about "wolvering blues" in wizard magazine. there was an "animated" video to this right? (but it was just cutouts of wolverine zooming in and out)

a wolverine, or the X-men character?

What would Absu be classified as?

but more specifically: SUMERIAN WAR METAL

Absolutely, but would they be considered avant-garde? They have interludes of other types of music on one of their albums, so they're not as straightforwardly metal as some that I've heard.

Not to cop out but I really enjoy about a dozen titles in each genre to a huge degree.

I just care if the bands are good, not what style they fit with.

Overall, I got into a lot more death metal first because I don't naturally appreciate lofi production. Morbid Angel's Domination has to be the best production of any truly extreme metal until Slipknot came along.

I'm pretty sick of black metal by now, but that Mayhem show this year was one of the best concerts I've ever seen.

I vote Doom.

but that Mayhem show this year was one of the best concerts I've ever seen.

Some of my friends went and they all said it was awesome. I'm only now getting into it - first, I was on the opposite side of what I perceived as a punk - metal divide, then because it was a hipster thing to do, then I stopped caring

"Morbid Angel's Domination has to be the best production of any truly extreme metal until Slipknot came along."

OUCH! and i even like slipknot...

lol

Choosing early death metal vs. early black metal, black metal wins out, easily. These days it's a lot closer in my opinion, there's great stuff and boring crap on either side.

I don't care for Slipknot. I just project/imagine that they are getting ridiculous budgets to make really heavy music.

Domination was recorded over 3 months in Morrisound studio. I doubt any other underground death metal band ever had such a luxury.

"Choosing early death metal vs. early black metal, black metal wins out, easily. These days it's a lot closer in my opinion, there's great stuff and boring crap on either side."

I dunno--I'll take Morbid Tales and Scream Bloody Gore over Venom and Bathory any day of the week. So maybe my true allegiance is showing through.

ALL BLACK, ALL THE TIME

I always want to prefer black metal, but death metal delivers for me more often. Would def take Celtic Frost and Bathory over early Death and Repulsion, though.

One could make convincing arguments that Morbid Tales is either proto-death or proto-black. But yeah, I'd definitely take Venom and Bathory over Scream Bloody Gore. That's just me!

Oh yeah, def agree Celtic Frost could take either side comfortably, but they've just got that European thing which puts them in my mind's BM camp.

celtic frost transcend genre tags. they influenced EVERYONE. i mean, i'd take good celtic frost over, like, most music in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNQve866m0g

I can't fathom the cross-licensing meeting that took place behind this (but I am picturing Stan Lee there gesticulating wildly)

great album

It's definitely more compelling than the Wolverine movie.

alright, voting death metal. but stipulating that i mean pre-BR00TAL DM for the most part, because i am old and becoming a traditionalist. in my straw hat, on the porch, listening to "severed survival" and "grey misery."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy1KDPt-h3E

this made me drool uncontrollably. want...all...these...rekkerdsssssss...................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVEc99zizK0

i don't really have a preference, tbh

the mythology and imagery of BM is more compelling to me (as cliched as it's become) but musically, it just depends on the individual band whatever the genre.

hey, it's no fair classifying Venom and CF as black metal.

i grew up listening to death metal and going to death metal shows. I like the scene and aesthetic a lot better than black metal's, which when you really get down to it is only a few degrees of separation from emo. i love all kinds of metal, but if i had to choose between DM and BM, it's definitely DM. and i'd take it over Doom, too, as I did in that last big metal subgenre poll.

voted "Avant Garde" out of habit, before reading any posts in the thread ...

i REALLY wish more people had heard the last Necrodemon album. I love that album in a way that I never love most new black metal albums. so great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKbC-FmfA7w

and their older stuff is cool too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC964f6RqK8

Scott were you ever in a dm or bm band?

me! oh god no. i don't know how to do anything. except eat pie and sleep.

in a car: Black Metal

in my room, alone: Black Metal

at a live show: Death Metal

on headphones while working out: Death Metal

so, I guess DM is yang and BM is yin.

Obvious point but raging, technical, fist-pumping Death metal makes me feel "powerful" and "alive" while
needling, monotonous, jaw-clenching Black Metal makes me feel "powerless" and "dead". Both psychic states are worth cultivating in my opinion.

While I'm spitting out bullshit binarisms . . .

Death Metal = sadism
Black Metal = masochism

which might also explain the kind of jock-y, bro-esque vibe to death metal fans and the indie crossover appeal of BM to lol indie types (the jump from Xasthur to Smog/Cat Power/Palace is shorter than you think). If you identify with the torturer and aggressor, you're going to get off on the scenarios in Obituary and Cannibal Corpse lyrics; conversely, it's no accident that there are actual black metal bands called Weakling and Mark of the Masochist, as the basic emphasis upon misery is key to the genre.

death metal sounds like it's made by monsters and when i listen to it i feel like someone is sticking a powerdrill inside of my ear, so naturally it gets my vote. i don't even listen to any black metal anyways, so maybe i shouldn't be voting. also i only own like three dm albums but oh boy ain't it just fine when i do put them on.

When on ILM someone says they listen to DM, I automatically think they're talking about Depeche Mode.

I wonder how many people in the USA got into black metal via Phil Anselmo, he was the first big metal star to embrace BM. I dont recall Slayer or anyone bigging it up. Am i wrong here?

A lot of what is being said here about Black Metal - introverted, masochistic, 'emo', made by shut-ins, attracting interest from outside of the metal ghetto (pandering sell-outs!) - seems to be a caricature of latter-day Depressive BM acts (and specifically Xasthur). It doesn't have much to do with the first or second waves of BM, or the majority of what's going on out there now.

Neotropical's post feels pretty OTM tho

it certainly doesnt describe children of bodom or cradle of pish

not real sure about the identify-with-the-aggressor aspect - I don't know that the I-am-the-vocalist dynamic of identifying with the lyrics is as operative in death metal as it is in general rock music

not to say that for example t-shirts at the deathfest don't generally suggest that yeah there's a fair amount of id'ing-as-torturer in the audience

i am a disinterested third party, merely observing the interaction between torturer and victim without judgement.

The stereotypical rationalization for death/gore performers and audiences seems to be "It's like a horror movie." I'm comfortable buying that, though there are instances (in metal and in movies) where revulsion at creepiness or sadism exceeds my enjoyment and I decide I do not want.

The black metal stereotype seems to be that the performers and audience experience lyrics and imagery as more expressive of their own beliefs and emotions. To me this doesn't imply identification with a torturer or victim, but more of a personal engagement with the feelings and ideas of black metal. I admire the risks taken by artists who aren't afraid of making themselves look ridiculous (whether by wearing corpsepaint or by wrestling with theology). A camp or ironic approach to black metal usually ruins it for me.

I tend to listen to death metal in a variety of situations and moods (driving around, exercising, with friends) and to black metal when I'm mopey and vant to be alone.

I don't buy the sadism/masochism dichotomy. Old School-style BM tends to be relentlessly aggressive - I remember cracking up over the Nachtmystium vocalist solemnly informing me of his intention to invade my land, slaughter my cattle and burn my temples - the thing is, BM does other things as well.

Brad OTM on the point that BM performers are expected to commit a lot more of themselves into what they do.

"I wonder how many people in the USA got into black metal via Phil Anselmo..."

I dunno. I owned a Bathory cassette long before I ever heard of Pantera. Though I am not really the average listener.

I don't think I've heard of anything because of Phil Anselmo, but I'm definitely one of those people who heard about black metal from Aquarius lists.

What if you DO like the rest of BM?

Need to hear more DM before voting.

― You are Rebels! You are all yankees (country matters),

Okay, my current hypothesis is LJ does not like blast beats or aggressive, fast drumming ...which honestly breaks my heart ... kinda doubting he'd like death metal.

i think he has to justify listening to something, i just dont know who he has to justify it to.

If "avant garde black metal" means black metal with more minimal drums, then I'm pretty sure I voted for the wrong thing. I was imagining some theoretical thing that was like Xenakis + shreiking vocals + blastbeats.

> I remember cracking up over the Nachtmystium vocalist solemnly informing me of his intention to invade my land, slaughter my cattle and burn my temples

he was serious?

Well, he hasn't shown up yet. He's probably working his way through "Assassins" listeners in alphabetical order. That's a lot of cattle.

All I've seen mentioned on here for death metal are the really brutal bands, but are we counting the more melodic stuff like In Flames, Soilwork, Arch Enemy, Amon Amarth, Dark Tranquillity, etc. as death metal? Because in that case, death metal by a huge margin for me.

Although weirdly enough, I have trouble getting into Cannibal Corpse, Suffocation, and Morbid Angel-type head-clubbing brutality. So that's why I'm torn. Although really, the black metal bands that I love(like Satyricon and Dimmu Borgir) are not exactly the blackest of the black, either.

Sorry I didn't make a girly metal option, jeff.

;)

so, basically, you are just a little girl in a frilly pink dress and pigtails. is that correct?

girly x-post!

but anyway yeah melodic death is still death.

what about deathcore? what is that? (apart from awful awful shite)

Well, I'm such a paragon of masculinity in my everyday life that sometimes it's nice to go home, curl up, and listen to girly death metal.

I think all that stuff counts as death metal - the demise of In Flames from decent melodic death band to just plain crappy band (imo obv) was a big bummer for me but I dig amon amarth & dark tranquillity, shit didn't a.a. play deathfest this year? and deathfest is brootal in the EXTREEMZ

once sent from the golden hall is one of my favorite death metal albums. one of my favorite metal albums, period.

I consider them all death metal, but there are the Defenders of Brutality to say that Arch Enemy are thrash or that Children of Bodom are power metal (?!). I didn't want to get smacked down for not being troo enough.

http://cache.umusic.com/web_assets/merch/week7/gaga/300x250_price.gif

Avant Garde Black Metal (for louis Abbott)

That's really the only metal I listen to. That and BÖC and I'm not sure they count.

death for sonics, black for vibe.

for combination of death sonics and black vibe and absurd genre name--blackened death. new behemoth record slays (and is a billboard charter).

death all the way for me.

i don't honestly know if i could choose between "obscura"/"slaughter of the soul"/"heartwork" and "transylvanian hunger"/"nattens madrigal"/"obscuritatem advoco amplectere me" with gun to head.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I like a lot of bands in variants of both styles, and delete most of what I download in both styles. As least in terms of the subsets of these styles that I like, myself, it's kind of a flow. Early Death Metal was an attempt to push metal's center of gravity back towards aggression, away than theatricality, which seemed like a great idea to me (the theatricality also seemed like a great idea to me; plenty of room in the universe for contradictory styles...). As Death's tropes became codified, aggression gave way to the mannerisms of aggression, or maybe they were mannerisms all along, but they moved from being invented mannerisms to being imitated mannerisms. Anger kind of morphed into thuggishness, which is what happened to punk, too. Black Metal, then, took over as the next reversal, a way out of the constraints and associations built up around Death Metal, back to some nihilistic menace. And by now this, too, has been taken to its self-caricaturing extreme.

But of the last 10 new Death or Black metal bands I've discovered I like, I'm not sure any of them are clearly Death and not Black. And Funeral Mist will be on my top 10 for this year, at least. So Black, on current strength, given that I have to pick one...

black metaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal
black metaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal

didn't a.a. play deathfest this year?

yep

ended up voting str8 black-metal, maybe somewhat disingenuously given the options, but not given the poll title

not that i won't be sticking gorguts on again real soon and letting my jaw drop

It doesnt really matter LJ, as far as I'm concerned, I would just be adding any votes for Avant Garde BM to BM's votes anyway. It was only an option for hipsters who were too scared to vote BM anyway!
*not that I'm calling you a hipster (how could an Oceansize fan be hip?)

they're Manchester's answer to Animal Collective

Ha, I wonder if Abbott and I will be the only ones who vote for avant-garde black metal. I do actually think it's some of the most interesting and enjoyable rock music of the past 5 years or so, although my knowledge of it is probably shallow (and mostly ILM-derived). Still, <3 Caina/Alcest/Nachtmystium/Deathspell Omega/Blut Aus Nord/Spektr.

Enjoyed the Necrodemon clip.

I do actually think it's some of the most interesting and enjoyable rock music of the past 5 years or so

It is. :D

Earlier, as I said on a different thread, I heard Moonsorrow's 'Chapter V' by accident and it was revelatory, a quite gorgeous experience. Not exactly straight BM, but a great example of an original take on the genre, done superbly well. How those songs sustained my interest like that is testament to the thought put into their crafting.

I stuck to B/D out of respect for the intent of the poll. But Blut Aus Nord and Deathspell Omega, yah. I don't know that I can really tell the difference between "avant-garde black metal" and "non-avant-garde black metal", other than assuming that "boring" = "non-avant-garde", in which case "avant-garde black metal" just means "whatever I find interesting". Which seems like a cop-out...

man I listened to so much fuckin metal today

right now it's all about finland for me

is it okay to burn a church in front of a baby?

teach... your children hell...

i desperately wish to hear a serious BM/Delta Blues synthesis. yes i does.

deth

"I wonder if Abbott and I will be the only ones who vote for avant-garde black metal."

I voted straight Black Metal. A lot of what I like could be wedged into some sort of avant-garde BM category, but I just don't think it's meaningful at all. As far as I can see, BM has always included loads of "avant-garde" experimentation, it's not something that started at some arbitrary point five years ago or whatever. It's right there at the centre of the genre, and always has been.

I get a lot less out of what I hear from sworn exponents of Death Metal, but there's no question that the same arguments against a separate avant-garde category would apply.

Still, AFAICT there is a difference between Spektr and, I dunno, Emperor or something. I just meant that I don't know the genre as a whole really well but do enjoy and listen to what gets classified as 'avant-garde'. Like, I enjoy Mort more than I enjoy the more traditional BAN tracks that I've heard. I wonder if some of the bands I mentioned might possibly be better classified as "post-rock BM" or "psych/prog BM".

"there is a difference between Spektr and, I dunno, Emperor or something" - Yes, but probably no more more than the difference between Emperor and Mayhem, and a certainly a lot less than between Emperor and Abruptum - and I'm not slagging off Emperor BTW. There is truly wild stuff to be found from all eras of BM, trust me.

I'm still not clear on what's being classified as avant-garde.

Stuff hipsters like.

What about stuff weird avant-garde people like?

That's death metal.

Take a handful of bad acid, stick an Abruptum CD on repeat, and call me from jail.

So if I like Deathspell Omega, Absu, and Lair of the Minotaur, am I a weird avant-garde person, a hipster or what? You're kinda giving me an identity crisis here, Alex.

(If we have hipsters in Windsor, I'm pretty sure I'm not one of them.)
xpost

I mean, your points are well-take though, Soukesian. I'll listen to Abruptum.

xxpost it depends on which one you like the most obviously.

If I said I liked Deathspell Omega most, what then?

if you can imagine a kid in a carpathian forest t-shirt hearing about it before it's discussed at a mogwai show, it is not avant-garde.

I don't think I've ever heard carpathian forest or mogwai.

only one of those is a mistake.

xxxp then you are goth

what a relief!

if you can imagine a kid in a minor forest t-shirt hearing about it before it's discussed at a death angel show, it is avant-garde.

Haha, Abruptum was an avant-garde black metal and dark ambient band from Sweden

http://www.heavymetalonline.co.uk/acatalog/GS130.gif

^^^ not avant-garde.

"dark ambient" doesn't really appeal to me ... it reminds me of hippies.

On Deathlike Silence, not on MTV any time soon . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yv_l6aDmRc

"Abruptum was an avant-garde black metal and dark ambient band from Sweden"

If they'd been from Norway they would have been straight Black Metal. It's the Swedish thing that avant-garde's 'em up a bit.

Earlier, as I said on a different thread, I heard Moonsorrow's 'Chapter V' by accident and it was revelatory, a quite gorgeous experience. Not exactly straight BM, but a great example of an original take on the genre, done superbly well. How those songs sustained my interest like that is testament to the thought put into their crafting.

nice to hear some love for that album. i seem to remember it was mocked for being easy listening on the rolling metal thread when it came out, but i've always loved it - even if it isn't very heavy.

multi-xpost - i don't understand what would make Deathspell Omega "avant-garde"... they seem like straight, if not discordant, BM with some pretty strong DM (specifically Morbid Angel/Suffocation) influences to me.

Also the fact that the lead singer was a dwarf.

he was also the opening to the vortex of all evil, don't forget that part.

obscuritatem really does make all "avant-garde" metal sound like it's not trying hard enough.

Abruptum released two albums on Euronymous's Deathlike Silence label. You can't get any more canonical second wave than that.

so without using examples of kids in t-shirts, could someone describe the difference between avant-garde black metal and non-avant-garde black metal?

You are too picky goth-girl.

Kids in t-shirts is perfectly reasonable way of explaining genre differences.

There is no difference. I speak as a goth, and therefore not a hipster.

Alex, I understand if you're not up to the challenge.

I'm liking Abruptum but I'm not sure why "avant-garde black metal" is a poor label for this, given some of the other things that are also classified as "black metal".

xposts

xp unfortunately t-shirts examples are really the limit of my criticism. Unless you'll accept bumper sticker examples? Or band logos drawn on desks?

if a fat kid who hates his parents and wouldn't understand the words "post-rock" would carve the band's name into his fleshy white bicep with an xacto knife in a show of allegiance, it's not avant-garde.

See that's why strongo's a professional and I still has a day job.

isn't "post-rock" rock that is boring?

Depends on who you ask, I think.

can you answer this for me using examples involving kids in t-shirts?

post rock isnt hip anymore so anyone on ilm who hates post rock is clearly a hipster!

my hypothetical fat kid is NOT a hipster.

xpost: Why is avant-garde a bad (sub-genre) label? Firstly, Abruptum predates most black metal. Secondly, part of the appeal of back metal, for me, is that it is all part of a strongly recognizable esthetic whole, even if this band sounds a bit like SPK and that band sounds a bit like Judas Priest. As a long-term fan of both those bands, that's got to work for me. Thirdly, "avant-garde" stinks of "this is the stuff it's OK to like".

xp - because he doesn't understand the words "post-rock" - hipsters have to understand them, because they signify something that isn't hip anymore.

are there any post-hipsters?

which is different to post-modern hipsters

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

for some reason, i'm disappointed.

That's a very avant-garde (for louis) reaction.

if you're disappointed, you might be a hipster.

or maybe as a Patriotic American he's disappointed Death Metal got beat by those damn european vampires?

Vampires . OF BLACK IMPERIAL BLOOD!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APZ46_Ewlkc

"if you're disappointed, you might be a hipster."

Might also be a death metal fan.

9 people want to be LJ. Scared?

I don't think that was the reason for our votes.

oh you are hipsters?

people, come now

poll proves what everybody knew: black metal's the trendiest!

so J0hn, does this mean you're providing Animal Collective CDs for even more ilxors?

dude apart from gorguts, what is on my DM hearing-list? i'm sure there's plenty of stuff ready to hit me where it hurts. the more distinctive the better, perhaps

xp

sarahel I suspect there isn't a single animal collective disc that most of these black metal voters don't already have

oh

the best death metal bands (Autopsy, Gorguts, Death, Atheist)

i have never, nor do I want to listen to animal collective, and I voted for black metal ... I think you are stereotyping us.

iirc j0hn is being facetious...what i want to know is which of the three bands who are not gorguts on that list i would in all probability like the most

I'm never facetious.

(as for you louis there's the POV Death Metal albums thread, go read that one, lots of good stuff there (though lots of line-blurring, which is natural, since a lot of the classic black metal albums are by guys who were huge death metal fans), though I have to say and without snark, I really don't think it's for you - the black metal that appeals to you most if I read you is the stuff which, not sonically but compositionally, resembles proggier stuff: broad, extensive development of themes, worlds-to-explore concepts. Songs that go on for days. Gorguts will take you to all those places but most death metal is largely more related to punk & shares the "get it done and make it hurt" attitude of good early hardcore, only with better musicianship and more ambition.)

like I think if you listened to Death, you'd say "oh this is show-offy technical stuff," which is to say, fuck yeah it is, probably not for you - I could have you wrong there but I'd guess it'd seem too close to guitar store amp-tester style for you to feel much affinity w/it. ditto Atheist. anybody who doesn't like Incantation's Onward to Golgotha though is the most disgusting savage imo

Well, basically, I've listened to Gorguts and been blown away by them, so I'm hoping there's something else out there I can find greatness in. There's a big place in my heart for shorter, punchier metal songs, albeit perhaps more in a live setting. You're right that I like an immersive, mutable and psychedelic metal experience, but there is more succinct material which has grabbed me through sheer force of will; music whose very DNA is original or impassioned enough to hotwire itself onto my brain (Mayhem's Ordo Ad Chao does this, albeit that the 10-minute song is my favourite...I also liked that Trelldom record).

I'll check that thread out, though, because I do want to explore this region, even if my natural inclination is towards the blurring, the reconfiguration of genres.

Haha! Dream Theater is show-offy technical stuff. DM I'd like to think I could hack, it being at least over quickly before any stifled yawn emerges. Fretboard wanking can be a beautiful thing if it's done with purpose and groove. I'd hope these bands have groove.

I usually don't associate the word "groove" with death metal ...

man the death I listen to is hugely groovy

for example I am rocking Onward To Golgotha right now, that's got groove for days

i guess the stuff i like is more about speed.

for dipping your toes into death metal, i'll often recommend the first cryptopsy and the first nile.

an album like 'unquestionable presence' by atheist is incredible musically and has some magnificent moments. but it always sounded to me like a bunch of dudes with knowledge of a wide range of styles who thought it would be cool to take death/thrash metal into unchartered, fusion-y territory, rather than music from a bunch of dudes who lived and breathed death metal.

Awesome! I'll give it a listen at some stage (maybe not now with still-ringing ears and a sleeping family). Also yeah, a friend of mine from uni was a massive Cryptopsy fella (and a great guitarist).

BTW what kind of metal is Meshuggah? This may not be the right thing to say but I fucking love them, pretty much entirely because of the 'groove', the spiralling mechanical certainty of their assault. If similar effects abide within DM then that is a good thing.

Sarahel, you more a Psyopus gal? :D

sorry, i meant the second cryptopsy - 'none so vile'.

I haven't actually listened to much death metal, or at least taken note of who I was listening to when other people played it for me - but then I'm retarded when it comes to what is considered what genre - I like Lair of the Minotaur.

the drummer from Cryptopsy is quite impressive and fast.

the cover of "...and then you'll beg" is one of my favorites & the opening of that album is fuckin HARSH

Cryptopsy live are incredible. A friend who is a big fan said that watching them play is like looking at the gears of a tenspeed bike switching and moving- just a perfectly designed glory to behold, and I kinda saw what he meant.

On the black metal-ish tip, that Liturgy album rules!

I haven't actually heard them ... just saw some video of the dude on some technical nerd thread about blastbeats and double bass technique.

still doin the insomnia onward to golgotha lie-on-floor thing

oh man the dual vocal shit in the middle of rotting spiritual embodiment and then that big old damaged squealing lead that comes in in the middle and then just HANGS AROUND for a verse up to a little past the three minute mark, fuck yeah incantation

everyone who voted for black metal here is a disgusting savage imo

signed,
hardcore dude

(who would likely rather listen to grind than either, most days)

I'm kind of embarrassed to admit it, since I consider myself a pretty big death metal fan, but I haven't gotten around to hearing Gorguts yet. I got out of metal and into other genres in a huge way in '91 or so, and didn't pick death metal back up until around 2001 or so. I never bothered with them because of their name, I just figured them for another Reek of Putrefaction rip-off group. I will have to hunt some down soonish - this and the POV thread have me excited to hear them.

black metal would have got my vote for sure, particularly given that i've been on a massive enslaved kick these last few days.

john's challopsy dismissal of obscura on that pov thread is also edging toward savagery

I love obscura but erosion of sanity is better & obscura stans are the most disgusting stannages imo

i realy appreciate the detail and vision of an album like 'obscura' by gorguts, but feel like listening to it about as often as i feel like listening to dillinger escape plan or something ie. very rarely.

is the first one worth bothering with? the allmusic review makes it sound cool.

this just in, the doomy part of incantation's "christening the afterbirth" is the greatest music of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKGNYiIgnZ0

^^^ avant-garde death metal

"considered dead" is good too, shit I love every gorguts album, but erosion of sanity is a huge leap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z98urSM4sG8

spitting beforehand is nice touch

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJJHk4hSFB4

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this guy is faking it

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This guy deserves a promotion

hell, i might even suggest some of that "blackened-death" metal to someone wanting to get into death metal using black metal as a starting point. dissection's first two records for instance. though those have a decidedly melodic death feel to them.

everyone who voted for black metal here is a disgusting savage imo

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:36 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

signed,
hardcore dude

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:36 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

(who would likely rather listen to grind than either, most days)

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:37 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fuck you, grindboy!

signed,
disgusting savage imo

Any Avant-Garde Disgusting Savages?

lol probably a fair number of black metal voters who didn't want to look like they were posing

Death Metal deserved to lose just because it begat Deathcore.

biggest death metal stumbling block for me: scott burns! dude's production sounds really boring and he worked on so many of the classic records.

and going with the total opposite sound is (one of the many reasons) why I love AUTOPSY.

grind/death folks - can we all just agree on assück? what an awesome band. (yes, I know burns recorded them too.)

Death Metal deserved to lose just because it begat Deathcore.

oh, come on, dude. that's like blaming minor threat for fucking, i don't know, most precious blood.

:)

so good:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i128/garzweiler2/R-773186-1157290381.jpg

one time I was on a train and there were a bunch of annoying kids on there making me feel old/depressed/down on humanity in general. then I stepped out and saw a bunch of young hesher/crust kids hangin' and one had an assück patch and I knew things were going to be OK.

will anyone rep for any deathcore bands?

(not me.)

(and I even like breakdowns!)

to answer LJ's question upthread:

BTW what kind of metal is Meshuggah?

i believe they are most accurately classified as post-nu-metal bullshit.

Assuck posts got me to put on Misery Index this morning.. psyched

I voted for Black because my main genre metal listening is Doom and Stoner, and Black has more of that sludgy evil bass that I like. I've been slowly winding back into Death Metal after neglecting it over the years (I used to really love Morbid Angel), mostly because so much of it that I heard was so much on the dry, treble-y production end.

i believe they are most accurately classified as post-nu-metal bullshit.

I believe you are most accurately classified as RONG

j0hn otm
(i think most call them math-metal which will prob annoy some people too)

high five

sorry dudes i hate that band sooooo much although tbf this could be another one of those correlations with working in a guitar shop things

I like them a lot and this is coming from someone who tends to really dislike tech stuff in metal (yet i love love love math rock so go figure)

you have not truly experienced meshuggah until you have heard 15 year olds explain how awesome their tempo changes are and their RADICAL use of 8 string guitars to withered old you a hundred times over.

aside from that i could never really get into them, point me in a direction and i'll give it another shot

last album was really good. despite the cover.

I cannot play any instruments(or sing) and I avoid muso talk like the plague so I guess I have not experienced the horror of that or dad playing blues or some anti social bastard playing acoustic guitar at a party (hah i dont go to parties either)

Scott otm that cover was really minging.

ok i think my guitar teacher has that one (SHOCK) so maybe ill try to cadge it off him and listen to it

I might be a better place to start. its only 33 mins i think (tho it is one long track)

as in the album I

man, I love meshuggah and the 4/4 crash cymbal groove that runs through every single song is exactly why.

pfunk's last two suggestions are both good places to start, imo.

really good post re:meshuggah:
MESHUGGAH... AREN'T THEY GREAT?

I listen to them with the same mindset that I approach techno.

ok last.fm popped up some song called "Strengah" from Nothing that did little to change my mind, so im just going to wait until i get home and dig into the ones you guys suggested

Nothing is great but you def cant judge by 1 track. You def need to play the album in full (and prob several times to let it sink in)
Destroy Erase Improve might be the best album to start with after the I ep.

I found nothing fairly disappointing at the time, fwiw. (though it has grown on me some over the years.)

and I realize it has its backers, but personally, I would caution using destroy erase improve as a starting point! they don't really sound much like that album anymore, and imo, it's for the better. much more of a proggy death metal sound on that one; no intent to pull the listener into a trance, really.

though this song is pretty much undeniable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOd-T58qHLA

Is "Considered Dead" the only Gorguts album to be released on LP?

come on guys, i'm trying here, but i'm not about to start listening to CDs with any regularity. i don't even have a CD player hooked up at home at the moment.

hmmm.... metal-archives seems to be down right now and discogs only lists cds:
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gorguts

(no considered dead even.)

I guess... not?

I'm a Catch 33 guy. And I hate nu-metal. Meshuggah is not nu-metal.

indeed

whatever Slayer and old Sepultura were classified as was how I categorized Meshuggah, but they've evolved into something unique... this brutal juggernaut machine, almost industrial. I loved the shit out of I and Catch 33.

i think if you're gonna get all nit-picky about what genre they belong to i would categorize Meshuggah as "technical post-thrash"

their early stuff is pretty much just thrash metal

so basically what rockapads said

great fucking band btw

with bad album covers

My biggest problem with Meshuggah is that their name sounds/looks too much like meshugganah to take them seriously.

you NEED to take this seriously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A_tSyJBsRQ

that's like latebloomer's favourite song XD

I voted for black metal.

Death Metal was a favorite of mine at the end of the eighties. I always loved the sound of Slayer’s Hell Awaits album and to me it seemed that this sound (especially the dry, plopping bass) continued to live on in early death metal. It gave me the idea of something rotting, decomposing. Captured – this is key – in catchy songs.

Unfortunately, death metal evolved into a highly technical genre with hardly any hooks and a very clear sound; a sound I simply find unpleasant to listen to. The muddy slugging had to make way for drum triggering, sharp as knifes guitars and processed cookie monster vocals (oldies like Chuck Schuldiner had a certain desperation in their voices, real pain and despair; they were human). One minute in in any given recent death metal platter and I’m already bored.

Black metal still has, first and foremost, the muddy sound I like so much; no drum triggering or at least well hidden ones. Second, it is about groove and atmosphere. Repeating killer riffs and hooks for minutes on end. In traditional metal, I especially like that a song would often end with repeating a hook over and over again (take Maiden’s Hallowed by Thy Name for example). Black metal seems to immediately skip to this part of a song. I still can’t get enough of that.

The Satanic bullshit I take for granted.

xpost: cracking song

It's great, but for me the last two tracks of Obzen are where it's at

yeah, i still return to 'pravus' quite a bit. it has an amazing riff that kicks in at about the 3:40 mark.

It's one of their most brutally controlled detonations. I love it from start to finish, but yeah that bit is killer.

What is the comparitive level of racism/anti-semitism/homophobia in Death Metal? In the POX metal thread, some people recommended songs by Darkthrone and Dissection, both of whom have some issues that I'd be pretty uncomfortable aligning myself with (I did download the songs illegally and have no idea what they're saying, so for now I'm enjoying them cautiously). Anyway, the wikipedia article on DM has no section on "Ideology" as the BM article does. Are there any bands that stand out that I should be wary of?

every anal cunt song has 'are gay' in the title :)

with the possible exception of 'i snuck a retard into the sperm bank'

I think one of the reasons USBM is doing so well with those who never checked out BM before is because they dont have the history of nazi nutjobs that the Scandinavian scene has/had.

has there ever been a poll for best anal cunt song title? if not,why not?

Because "Being a Cobbler is Dumb" would take all.

hahahaha actually otm

anyway, best ilm thread ever? TS: Smiths vs Anal Cunt

any anal cunt song title poll would have to have the words 'is gay' after it.

I'm probably going to get jumped on for even suggesting this, but it's always seemed to me that there's a strong thread of brutal misogyny in Death Metal.

Not that it's not to be found in BM or other genres, and I know "it's like a horror movie, dude" but it does seem like a defining theme.

like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghLKkOaxn-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLgFKpXxLwM

i always thought that was much more evident in nu-metal. but then, who can even understand most of the words in most DM songs?

None of the Death Metal albums I own have any misogynistic song titles. I can't speak for the lyrics.

100 bucks for anyone who can make out a word of what chris barnes is singing in that song above.

Darkthrone is more black metal than death metal, put someone else on here is probably more qualified to talk about their Nazi connection than I am... Dissection, on the other hand, was led by a total Nazi prick.

Darkthrone is more black metal than death metal

Sorry, to clarify: I am reasonably aware that some black metal has these undercurrents, but have no idea if there are these pockets of prejudice within the Death Metal community and whether that applies to any of the more critically-lauded bands.

the darkthrone nazi connection stems from certain phrases that were included (or intended to be included) on the sleeve for transilvanian hunger. kind of tenuous really, but it's nevertheless part of the band's legacy.

i'm sure there are pockets of prejudice in death metal. though in many ways the notion of supremacy in black metal is intrinsically linked to the origins of the genre - paganism, anti-christianity, belief in an old, "pure" world. that kind of thing. death metal doesn't have those roots, so if a band emerged with nazi beliefs it'd be more a case of the intensity and aggression of the music supporting a hateful cause and less an evolution of anything ideologically related to death metal as a genre.

My feeling is that the idea of supremacy and elitism in Black Metal often doesn't run much deeper than "our stuff is the coolest EVER!" (And I do realise that is offensive to many an POPist ILMer, but what the hell, I think fans of any genre should feel that way.) I don't think there's much ideological content in the works of Venom, Bathory or Celtic Frost, and, as I understand it, the NSBM stuff originated in Varg's prison rantings, by which time Black Metal had been up and rolling for at least a decade.

Paganism, anti-christianity, and even belief in an old, "pure" world have no necessary connection with any kind of ideology of supremacy.

Pop fans on ILM feel superior so it shouldnt offend them other than it being "the wrong music" to popists.

You know, an hour later, I'm still annoyed at the implication that being against christianity means you're a fascist.

who said that?

"in many ways the notion of supremacy in black metal is intrinsically linked to the origins of the genre - paganism, anti-christianity, belief in an old, "pure" world. "

In what ways? In my own experience, my (socialist and communist) family rejected christianity because the christian elites marched their young men off to die in WWI. I seriously believe this a major reason why most europeans no longer go to church on sunday. I understand that in America, interest in paganism seems to be associated with a fascist interest in european racial identity. In europe, until fairly recently, it was the preserve of hippie anarchists, who, if anything, identified with Indian and African polytheism.

My Grandfather (my dads dad) was a communist and atheist.

Really, the idea that if you don't love the baby jesus means you have to sign up to some social darwinist agenda and/or anti-semitism is complete bullshit. There is a lot of ugly nonsense in black metal, but I don't know that it's actually worse than what you'll find in death metal, and, in the end, confronting the dark side is what it's all about.

Is there a thread involving black metal on this board that hasn't been derailed by this topic? If you're looking for enlightenment from dudes who paint themselves in corpse paint, use cheesy pictures of skinless corpses ripping themselves apart as album covers, or growl like a demon with a trash can over its head passing a kidney stone, you're probably wasting your time.

As long as it's not blatantly racist or Christian, I really don't care. And in my experience people pushing a strict agenda make terrible music, so it makes it very easy to miss that shit.

Is there a thread involving black metal on this board that hasn't been derailed by this topic?

I'm kinda sad it's being derailed in this way now ... this has been a pretty good thread.

posers vs satanists vs neo-nazis. a typical ilm thread

I think we really need to propagate "posers" on more of ilx than just this thread ...

I finally heard Gorguts' Erosion of Sanity thanks to this thread. Fucking awesome album. Reinforces my DM vote.

OK, somebody who voted DM give me 10 DM album-of-the-year candidates from 2009, and I promise to check them all out.

Reporting back, I still don't get meshugah but we are all friends here and I am sure plenty of yall don't dig sleepytime or belphegor so to each their own and all that.

Sleepytime live is fantastic. I can live without most of their recordings.

^Which is about the opposite of how I feel about Meshuggah. They were so quiet live (no amps on stage). And the singer's stage presence was the most nu-metal part tbh.

I was at the 2nd Sleepytime show ... they're a solid band.

OK, somebody who voted DM give me 10 DM album-of-the-year candidates from 2009, and I promise to check them all out.

Here's a dozen:

Vader, Necropolis (not out yet, but trust me)
Obscura, Cosmogenesis
Suffocation, Blood Oath
Revocation, Existence is Futile
Man Must Die, No Tolerance for Imperfection
Cannibal Corpse, Evisceration Plague
Job For a Cowboy, Ruination (no, really)
Fleshgod Apocalypse, Oracles
Behemoth, Evangelion
Augury, Fragmentary Evidence
Ulcerate, Everything is Fire
Gorod, Process of a New Decline

Does the new Portal count? I think that's the only new DM I've heard this year...

Vader, Necropolis (not out yet, but trust me)

is there a bad Vader album? serious question! i haven't heard anything by them that didn't kick at least half of my ass.

What is the comparitive level of racism/anti-semitism/homophobia in Death Metal? [...] Are there any bands that stand out that I should be wary of?

explicit racism/anti-semitism/homophobia doesn't appear in lyrics as much as in black metal, on a person-by-person basis i'm sure it exists. then again, even a band like malevolent creation had at least one racist song.

bands you would definitely want to avoid would be arghoslent and grand belial's key - unfortunately both absolutely great bands, musically, but if racist lyrics bother you you'd do well to stay away from them.

Definitely have to mention the new ones by Portal and Nile, they're esily the best DM records of 09, in my opinion. Both out in the next couple months...

oh dear. i'm really not up for a discussion about where supremacy comes from in black metal. while i have certain opinions, i don't know enough about it to go any further.

sorry to strike a nerve though. i will say that i'm against religion myself, and didn't mean to suggest that being anti-christian equates to being fascist. i was simply trying to point out that in the instance of many black metal bands, rejecting christianity gave them a sense of being affiliated with the pagan world. i'm referring to norwegian black metal fwiw.

anyway, i agree with you.

it should be said that for a lot death metal doods' the chief beef against black metal doods was (is?) "lol, fags" - no shortage of homophobia in death metal I don't think

i'd hate to hear what death metal folk have to say about britney fans.

These are murky waters. Apologies for going off like that, Charlie - work stress and Polish lager can be a deadly combo.

no worries whatsoever :) metal is a serious business.

it should be said that for a lot death metal doods' the chief beef against black metal doods was (is?) "lol, fags" - no shortage of homophobia in death metal I don't think

yeah, this doesn't really factor into lyrics, but otm. not really too surprising considering how dm is a ridiculously masculine style of music.

bands you would definitely want to avoid would be arghoslent and grand belial's key - unfortunately both absolutely great bands, musically, but if racist lyrics bother you you'd do well to stay away from them.

even though I couldn't make out the lyrics, curiosity got the best (worst?) of me and I read some arghoslent lyrics online. great music, but the lyrics were so noxious that it really quashed any desire to listen further.

Okay I dunno if this is the best place to ask (maybe Rolling Metal?) but I'm doing some ordering and wanted to pick up a few new black metal titles, does ILX have opinions about--
WYRD
KRALLICE
HAVOHEJ
or
OAKHELM?

other things I should try? LP only :(

Get the Krallice!!!!

not really too surprising considering how dm is a ridiculously masculine style of music.

^^^this being my chief complaint about the stuff--which i find even more annoying than the cute muppet vocals really.

Ian - Liturgy's "Renihilation" would be my pick.

eh, that krallice album is kinda boring, imo.

I would check out some aura noir. loved hades rise and I know that black thrash attack is on vinyl because I have it.

"Liturgy's "Renihilation" would be my pick."
^this

Also, any Ludicra you can get your hands on. The roughs of their new one are killing me.

Krallice seconded. One of the very best BM releases of last year and one of those platters that somehow also appeal to people that are not really into BM. The riffs are very noodley. Which I love. But I can see how that might bore people, as the weaving and whirling almost seems endless.

Thanks for the list, Phil! Yeah, I really don't like those. I'd already tried about half of those, and after listening to the rest, Augury is still all I kept. Ah well.

On the BM side, I'll second/third/whatever the Liturgy and Ludicra recs.

Yeah, that Liturgy album is superb, I've been playing that a lot the last couple weeks.

Krallice is fucking great

Def interested in hearing the Krallice LP. Been a fan of Orthrelm/Octis/Mick Barr for years now. It's been ordered, I'll check it out sometime next week when it shows up... a little worried abt the 'jam' factor, but I imagine they can keep it under control.

tonight i picked up:
wird 'huldrafolk' and
obituaary 'slowly we rot.'

love it.

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned Krallice earlier! Branca-metal just makes so much sense.

"Branca-metal just makes so much sense."

I tried and failed to make such a thing in 1996.

Ah, here's some "Avant Garde Black Metal" for you, I think: Polis Rouge by Remmirath. Slovakia, 2008. Interestingly atmospheric, with one long electronic digression.

I cant wait for the new Krallice album, it's due very soon. I got the last one on vinyl from gilead media. There should be some left , it only came out on vinyl this year.

what are peoples pick-10 for death metal albums

off the top of my head

Morbid Angel - Domination
Unleashed - Where No Life Dwells
Morgoth - Odium
Carcass - Symphonies of Sickness
Vader - Ultimate Incantation
Bolt Thrower - Realm of Chaos
Death - Scream Bloody Gore
Asphyx - Last One on Earth
Rebaelliun - Annihilation
Marduk - Panzer Division Marduk

marduk is death metal? no cannibal corpse or entombed?

"what are peoples pick-10 for death metal albums"

there's a thread.

TS: Death Metal vs. Black Metal

pov: death metal albums

POV: Early 90s Death Metal

xpost - I guess Marduk is just so extreme and well produced that I can't think of it as black metal. Emperor's Equilibrium IX is pretty death metal in its way too.

I thought Marduk was BM?

Whatever. :)

lol

¿so is all black metal hella racisty?

no.

No.

"Is all rap misogynistic?"

nah i mean i heard some burzum and it was really awesome and my friend was all "hey that stuff is bad news" or whatever. the wikipedia page says they're all nazis i was just wonderin

Oh well, yeah Burzum is definitely a special case - for many reasons.

But it's not represented within the musics or lyrics, most of his racist stuff came while he was in jail wasnt it? Anyway there's actual NSBM that is way worse than Burzum et al

lol @ jj's description

surprising result. I think "in general", I'm definitely a death metal maven - most all of my favorites are death metal bands. But when it comes to the elite, the top black metal acts can be transcedent (like your Immortals and such).

I still would have voted death metal.

did lj get into death metal?

and if so, why?

it would be the arty/proggy kind obviously

btw if anyone here liked Weakling (or The Gault), they might be interested to know that John Gossard has formed a new BM project called Dispirit. I bought the demo tape and it's really really great. Cant wait for a full length.

You can check out some clips here & order it if you want to.

http://dispirit.org/

viceroy did you check it out?

SEND BACK MY STAMPS!: THE EARLY DEATH METAL ZINE GRAVEYARD
http://sendbackmystamps.org/

best fuckin site

wanted to post it in here as the link would get lost on the rolling metal thread plus a lot of people don't read it due to its pace/promo talk.
I know plenty will enjoy it (and possibly share stories of putting glue over stamps to wash off postmarks so they can be re-used)

Fuck, I wish I was cool enough to have known about this sort of stuff when it was out. This interview with Dan Lilker at the 9:30 Club (the old 9:30 club!) would have blown my 1991 mind. Thanks for sharing!

i just saw it posted on Forever Doomed and thought plenty ilx metalheads would get a kick out of it.

or 2 anyway

some good reading here for sure

I think that Strongbad mixes up Death Metal and Black Metal at times (and glam too!) but otherwise, this is the best thing you will ever watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cya3yjWWyqE

Okay guys, in the next ten minutes: help me choose whether to read:

Sound of the Beast
Lords of Chaos
or
Choosing Death

on the bus ride home today.

black metal is the wrong answer but uhm I submit this stanza from Christraping Black Metal:

"The daughters of satan abuses your body
And drool in ecstasy when you die
While our warriors rips the beard
Of your idiot father halls up high"