Worst Beatles song on Rubber Soul

Previously:
Worst Beatles song on Please Please Me ("A Taste of Honey")
Worst song on With The Beatles
Worst Beatles song on A Hard Day's Night
Worst song on Beatles For Sale
Worst Beatles song on Help!

Easy - What Goes On by a country mile.

i love this album, but this one is actually easy for me: i never, ever liked "michelle." ever.

beep beep, beep beep, no

(should add that any answer besides "michelle" is mad, since all the other songs are great)

Michelle. terrible song, never liked it.

run for your lives it's the last song on rubber soul

If (and it's a big if) you can ignore the lyrics of Michelle, it does have a lovely melody. What Goes on is not great - grate, I'll give you, but not great.

OF course, if Mr Lennon were here he would be voting for Run For Your Life, but he'd be RONG.

I'm not particularly fond of "I'm Looking Through You," but, yeah, "Michelle."

Michelle...you smell.

"In My Life"...

JUST KIDDING lol

"Run for your life" is a nick from elvis, one line extended to a whole song.

And for once, JL is right: It's wrong.

"The Word" is the worst: the drony chorus drags down the (melodically) interesting verses. Still, I love this song.

"I'm Looking Through You"? "Michelle"? I'd like to hear more about what's wrong with these, exactly. I know I'm getting my Geir on but "Michelle" has such a pretty melody, with the "I need you"s straining Paul's register without breaking it.

run for your lives it's the last song on rubber soul

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Monday, September 21, 2009 3:34 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I find "Michelle"'s melody maudlin – it actively gets on my nerves – quite apart from the words.

Michelle - lyrically unbelievably banal, nothing interesting going on production-wise, I don't find the melody particularly compelling and its rather repetitive. it doesn't rock but it's a bit too uptempo for a ballad... I dunno it just fails

Either What Goes On or Michelle. Or maybe Girl.

So it's a personal matter, then. No problem. My reaction to "The Word"s chorus is similarly a matter of annoyance that I can articulate as "boring drone" but I love lots of other drones on this album, e.g. "If I Needed Someone"'s middle eight, so my articulation is pretty subjective.

It's funny, I have to work hard to be conscious of the words with Beatles songs...and when I do, I typically regret it.

xxp

^^^ also I have no idea what middle eight means

I find "Michelle"'s melody maudlin – it actively gets on my nerves – quite apart from the words.

^^^

As many people have already said, "Michelle" is a bit of a stinker. Not bad, per se, just not up to the competition. This is really John's album.

also since i grew up knowing the american version, i really miss "i've just seen a face," which to me feels way more rubber soul than help!

"Michelle" easily, even though it's my wife's name.
Never got all the hatred for 'Run for Your Life." OK, so it's misogynistic and the narrator's a prick. So what? Aren't there tons of songs out there with a similar message, or worse?

Eh, I think "Michelle" rates about average for this album; I'll take it over "Think For Yourself" and "Run For Your Life" (and I think you all will let me keep it too!).

"Michelle" has one of the best bass lines ever, so I can't dismiss it. Actually, I like every single song on this album. Hard pressed, I'd pick "What Goes On".

The Word

"the word" is proto-hippie drippy, but the harmonies on it kill and the rhythm's pretty hot too.

piano on "The Word" is awesome - love that opening riff

Worst: "What Goes On" - I do like it but it ruins the gestalt. It seems more like a chore than anything ("ugh right - we need to make room for a Ringo"*). Although I do like the perversity of opening side two with it. "Michelle," second worst, is refreshingly spare which siphons off a lot of the NutraDeath. Plus the "oooh"'s make for a chilly counterpart to Macca's French 101.

Best: "The Word" - Wtf Euler?? Why do you not want your Beatles funky? And positively bursting at the seams? Have you heeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaard the word is "love?"

* Please Beatles dorks. Don't pull out a factoid proving that it didn't really go like this. It's just a feeling.

The Word and Michelle are both great. What Goes On is the worst.

'If I Needed Someone' seems to go on forever, and I don't remember 'Wait' at all. But I've never liked 'Nowhere Man' and I just don't get the praise heaped on it, so that's where my vote's going.

I like the verses on "The Word" a lot, but I'm mixed on the chorus. It's still a great song!

Wait and The Word are both terrific.

Thanks, guys. I now realize this has more duds than the other major period albums.

This is of course a really great album and there aren't any bad tracks on it. "What Goes On" still has to be my obvious pick here, because it doesn't really fit in. Would have worked perfectly on some Lovin' Spoonful album from the same era though.

And shame on those "Michelle" haters. Pretty is good!

Pretty is good; "Michele" is a pig with lipstick.

And of course the clue about "Michelle" is the harmonies. Some really advance harmonic stuff that you don't usually find much of in "rock" songs.

Tracks I hate: "Michelle."

Tracks I dislike: "I'm Looking Through You," "Run For Your Life"

Tracks that leave me cold: "Wait," "The Word."

That's a lot of duds.

But Alfred, the rest are so damn good it surely makes up for the weak ones.

Sure, but I never thought about how flawed this thing is.

what goes on cause i don't even remember how it sounds

How can 'The Word' leave you cold? It's the ultimate happy harmony summer smiley song.

it's always sounded like sub-par Beatles to me--not bad per se, but certainly not as good as The One That Came After It.

On the other hand, "Girl," along with "I'm So Tired," reminded why John Lennon is utterly sui generis as a singer.

How can 'The Word' leave you cold? It's the ultimate happy harmony summer smiley song.

That's "Drive My Car."

i guess What Goes On for me.

I'm So Tired is one of the most boring Beatles songs, but that's a matter for another thread.

rubber soul is not flawed to me but dear god did i listen to it one too many times. it'll be years before i have any desire to listen to it again.

Tracks that leave me cold: "The Word."

You need to have your buttcheeks looked at, Soto.

I hope someone can do it tonight.

i'm voting "i'm looking through you" because it doesn't do anything for me and rather than gorgeously floating around just awkwardly rolls out of the tube. argh and that guitar part after "YOU'RE NOT THE SAME!" awesome bridge, though. i understand everyone voting for michelle but i can't bring myself to do it cause i remember falling in love with it when i first heard, learning to pay it on guitar etc. it was nice.

*rimshot*

x-post to Alfred.

ewwwwww

I love Looking Through You and am dismayed at the lack of love for it here.

I voted for "Run for Your Life."

This album starts with Norwegian Wood for me, never liked Drive My Car. I think DLT ruined it for me.

Yeah, probably gonna vote Drive My Car. Could tolerate it better if it wasn't the opener.

Can't believe anyone could hate Girl - my favourite song on this album.

i wish Drive My Car was just a little faster. also, less cowbell.

so basically, collectively, ILM hates this record

which is weird cuz really the only song I actively dislike on it is Michelle, love everything else to bits (What Goes On and Drive My Car being probably at the bottom of the basket, but they have their redeeming qualities)

No way, I'm dying to hear it again. It's tough not having those remasters.

I too love this album, but totally get if people have different thoughts. It's not perfect.

If people feel that way about Revolver than I'll be more quizzical.

It seemed a bit long and samey when I first listened to it, but enough time has passed that in my mind it's turned into a bit of a doll's house. I like that this thread has exposed so many flaws, it'll make the rediscovery interesting.

considered back to back with hard day's night and help, this one does seem spottier. which actually surprises me a little.

I don't see the spots at all. OK, maybe "What Goes On" and "The Word". The rest are all great.

wtf michelle is great

No. No. I will not participate in this poll, thank you. There are no bad songs on this perfect album. OK, 'What Goes On.' 'Wait,' and 'The Word,' discussed above, are two of my favorites.

'The Word' I especially like because of the beat. I once read that some ghastly psychologist or whatever did a study of common pop song rhythms, and the rhythm featured in 'The Word' caused people to feel anxious, lustful, or murderous. I forget which, but if someone smart knows what I'm going on about, please provide the reference! Thank you all.

Amazing album obviously, but I could do without "Wait".

"I'm Looking Through You" is great, prefer the anthology version though. I usually skip "Drive My Car" so i voted for that one.

lot of michelle haters here. i've learned to ignore the pathetic o level french lyric and follow the twists and turns of the melody, it always surprises you where it goes.
spoil the party is dodgy c&w that suddenly becomes great where john and paul harmonise in the chorus.

I like "Wait"

Admittedly, it's the Dr Robert and Kym Mazelle song, but hey...

Michele's glib, but very pretty. The Word is chirpy and funky, and as someone pointed out has amazing harmonies (especially on "Say the wor-herd, wor-herd, love"). I like the sardonic vocals in Run For Your Life. So it has to be What Goes On, which is just dull.

always astounded me that there is no drive my car on the (original) american version of this album. this country is weird. and no nowhere man!

people are hating on 'the word'? that's redonkulous.

'wait' is the ringer. definition of filler.

"Wait" was originally recorded for Help! in June 1965 but did not make the final pressing. When Rubber Soul fell one song short for a Christmas release, "Wait" was brought back. The Beatles added overdubs to the initial recording so it would blend in better with the other, more recent songs on Rubber Soul.[1]

'what goes on' is cool, it has this weary, stoned, zapped-out vibe to it, which fits in well with some of the lyric :'tides of time', the tossed-off 'tell me why..', plus some good guitar work iirc.

Yeah, "The Word"? No way. Such a great, weird little song. Never liked "Michelle" all that much though.

Always thought "Girl" was kinda crap.

If Michelle is voted worst song I will kill myself. You all are completely insane. It's classic Paul and it's beautiful. The verse, the bridge, and even the solo are each perfectly lovely melodies. The changes are brilliant, the arrangement is spot on (those oohs in the background are killer). The way he varies the "And I will say the only words I know..." at the end is great. Yes the lyrics are goofy but certainly no goofier than several other songs on here.

What Goes On, The Word, and Run For Your Life are all in the running here. I can find things to enjoy about them -- the vocal harmonies mostly -- but I don't think they're very good songs. I think I'm going with Run for Your Life because it kind of sucks as an album-ender.

Michelle it is, then

I'm gonna go with "Drive My Car", just 'cause I liked "I've Just Seen a Face" more as an opener on the American version. I think "Michelle"'s just fine musically - the way the solo functions as a melody all its own, just like "For No One" or "Penny Lane". Really, there's nothing I don't like here.

I voted "You Won't See Me." Just don't care for it especially. It's not terrible or anything. Nothing on this record is bad. No, not even "Michelle," which I like. Sometime I like to put way too much syrup on my pancakes, too.

I have to say, though, that "Run for Your Life" is some fucked-up, repugnant shit.

OK, so it's misogynistic and the narrator's a prick.

A prick? He's a would-be murderer! But I've kind of rocked out to the song before. It's pretty tight, lyrical content notwithstanding.

always thought it was weird that "you won't see me" comes right before "nowhere man," since they have the exact same "ooooh-la-la-la" backing vocals. if you're going to be lazy, don't be so obvious about it.

i like everything on the album, even "wait" (not a standout or anything, has an interesting stop-start structure), even "michelle" (works better if you treat it as a fun novelty track, not a serious ballad), even "run for your life." even the weaker songs don't strike me as distracting duds the way the bad numbers on help! or abbey road do.

PEOPLE DISLIKE DRIVE MY CAR, WTF??!!

I don't think there's much of substance against "Drive My Car" here (Myonga just said he preferred "I've Just Seen A Face" as the opener). If there's any consensus here, it's on "Michelle", and then "The Word" and "What Goes On" and perhaps "Wait" (though I love "Wait" and have a hard time seeing what's wrong with it).

There's no goddamn consensus on "Michelle." I like it more the more I read you humorless misanthropes hate on it.

haha I love it too! But it seems to be the one most people dislike the most (at least the ones posting).

this is my favorite beatles album i think

all the songs are good but "run for your life" is a bit uncomfortable and thus gets my vote

I'm sure I've posted about this before: but in his authorised biog "Many Years From Now' - where's there's 3 pages dedicated to Michelle- McCartney remembers that photographer David Bailey bumped into him in the AdLib club and asked him if Michelle was 'tongue in cheek' - a joke:

I said, "Fuck off!", quite taken aback that he thought it was a joke. I was very insulted. But I knew what he meant."

I've always hated it.

The Paul haters dislike "Michelle", but then the Paul haters have no clue about music whatsoever. Paul is the one true musical genius in The Beatles, and "Michelle" is one of the best examples why. It's an absolutely beautiful song, with beautiful harmonies, nice changes between minor and major, and some beautiful vocal harmonies along the way. It would have benefited from an accordian (French style) added, but is still absolutely wonderful. Definitely one of my favourites on this album, although topping "In My Life" takes quite something.

At least I am happy nobody has mentioned "You Won't See Me" yet, which is one of the lesser known songs here, and yet another example of Paul at his very best.

I love Michelle, but an accordian would've fucking ruined it.

oh geir. the changes in "michelle" are just cod-chanson, they're nothing all that special. an accordion might improve it actually since it would make it campier. and it's true i would mind the song less as an instrumental, preferably on a movie soundtrack. "the love theme from 'the pink panther'" or something. but it's all very shticky. and the lyrics totally sink it.

i don't hate paul, at all. i just don't always indulge him.

Girl - self pitying, misogynist bs with not one but two crap jokes in it.

not many bad songs, but "run for your life" always kind of irked me.

WTF @ people who don't like Michelle - it's got a great melody and the lyrics aren't that bad at all, in fact they're quite charming.

WTF @ people who don't like Michelle

I don't enjoy vomiting

Liking Run For Your Life doesn't make you a wife-beater any more than liking Taxman makes you a Tory or liking I Am The Walrus makes you yellow matter custard.

I'm Looking Through You is arguably just as misogynistic as Run For Your Life anyway.

Never got all the hatred for 'Run for Your Life." OK, so it's misogynistic and the narrator's a prick

Narrator = John Lennon. As he would have been the first to admit.

It's the one he always regretted.

Never played live, right?

Undecided. "Michelle" makes me think of a barbershop quartet for some reason and seems out of sync with the rest of the album. "Girl" is a greasy, adolescent of a song, with it's backing vocals that go "tit".

I love "Girl." Possibly my favorite on the record. Not because it's unimpeachably fantastic or anything, just because I love it. It's the kind of song I like so much it makes me sorry.

"Michelle" holds up marginally better imo than "Martha My Dear," which have always been linked in my memory as basically the same song.

It always reminds me of Mother Nature's Son. Same intro basically.

I'm Looking Through You is arguably just as misogynistic as Run For Your Life anyway.

People. No. This "other pop songs are just as bad" argument is a dead end. No other pop songs start with the lyric "I'd rather see you dead, little girl, than to be with another man." Not even the Stones get quite that much to the point.

as said upthread, it's a nick from "Baby Let's play house" Elvis. The line is a throwaway (but still a "wha?" moment) inthe original...

He's just a Jealous Guy... and a Homicidal Guy too

Quoting myself from another thread:

There's the cute one, the clown, the quiet one, and the fuckin' psycho

― tie me up, dress in drag, and read to me from the bible (kenan)

This "other pop songs are just as bad" argument is a dead end. No other pop songs start with the lyric "I'd rather see you dead, little girl, than to be with another man." Not even the Stones get quite that much to the point.
You’re argument is a dead end. Do a little research and you’ll find tons of great songs that are far more to the point, from murder ballads like “Knoxville Girl” to numerous ramblings by Eminem. Pat Hare’s “I’m Gonna Murder My Baby” is a great song, precisely because it’s so chilling. The fact that he actually carried out on his threat doesn’t make it any less so. Or does your argument apply only to “pop” songs?
Seriously, why does everyone focus on this one song? Is it because Lennon may have actually felt this way, as opposed to a “character” in a Randy Newman song? I don’t see why there should be a distinction. OK, Lennon was a douche at the time, and the narrator’s also a douche. The same goes for Mick Jagger and “Under My Thumb,” “Stupid Girl” and a boatload of others. Who cares? They’re just stories, and great songs.

Eh, "Your argument."

Point taken.

"run for your life" is so over the top that i don't see how anyone can find it offensive, really. it's an expression of a natural (albeit sinister) human impulse, taken to a comical extreme. plus, it's catchy.

I was pondering "No Reply" off of Beatles For Sale yesterday, and realized that while the usual reading of it is that he's hanging out outside his girlfriend's house and watching her comings and goings, which is pretty creepy by itself, there's room to imagine that he's hanging around the house of a girl who has no idea who he is at all. Either way, she's certainly not speaking to him.

xpost - Maybe the catchiness is what people object to?

I'm with jazzbo. The finger-pointing at this one song has always baffled me too - how come the other 9000 songs on the same subject are acceptable?

"you won't see me" is pretty stalker-ish too. tho, being paul, not quite as menacing as john. he just sounds like a sadsack at the payphone on the corner going, "i know you're home! i can see the light in your room!"

Maybe it's John's choice of words (always superior to Paul's) -- "I saw the lie!" and "If I were you I'd realize..." So many red flags for a dangerous crazy person.

John to girl in the window: "You lie!"

I don't see why you're so sure that those are John's words, but neither do I place much value on the lyrics of Beatles songs.

Oh sure, like any fiction it's part John and part made-up character. I understand that. I'm not arguing that John Lennon stalked and/or killed women.

Actually, I meant that Paul and John collaborated on songwriting, and so where one's voice begins and the other's ends is unclear.

Oh, bull. You can totally tell John lyrics from Paul lyrics, and not just by who is singing them, although that's usually a big clue.

From what I've read about their collaboration process, I'm quite skeptical of attempts to peel their lyrical voices apart; and in addition, I'm suspicious of the conventional wisdom regarding who was the "bad" one and the "good" one etc. Fortunately the records can stand on their own.

They did check each other and fill in gaps for each other, particularly early on. But take "Elanor Rigby" for instance - Paul wrote most of the lyrics, and I hear that Ringo chimed in once or twice, but "wearing the face that she keeps in a jar by the door" is all John. You can just smell it.

John would never have written a lyric like "I feel good/ In a special way" and Paul would never have written a lyric like "She said/ I know what it's like to be dead". Where one's voice begins and the other's ends is not that unclear, most of the time.

Is any of the hand-wringing over Run For Life being done by people who like (what could be perceived as) violence-encouraging lyrics in rap? Because, y'know, if Eminem can get away with Kim I think Lennon can get away with RFYL.

I suspect the "a face in the jar by the door" may be Macca, btw.

Is any of the hand-wringing over Run For Life being done by people who like (what could be perceived as) violence-encouraging lyrics in rap?

What? Who cares? That's so far outside this context.

John would never have written a lyric like "I feel good/ In a special way"

Oh my love for the first time in my life,
My eyes are wide open,
Oh my lover for the first time in my life,
My eyes can see,

I see the wind,
Oh I see the trees,
Everything is clear in my heart,
I see the clouds,
Oh I see the sky,
Everything is clear in our world

It's because it was half an idea, knocked off in five minutes, and should have been left off in favour of "Leave my kitten" or summat.

1. Drive My Car
2. Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)
3. You Won't See Me
4. Nowhere Man
5. Think for Yourself
6. The Word
7. Michelle
8. What Goes On
9. Girl
10. I'm Looking Through You
11. In My Life
12. Wait
13. If I Needed Someone
14. Run for Your Life

there's a lot of mediocre crap on this album tbh. for a while i always said this the 'most consistent' beatles album but that's definitely not true. this is a contest between 'the word' v 'michelle' vs 'what goes on' vs. 'run for your life'.

'the word' is okay, a little funky yea but the lyrics are trite. michelle? "these are words that go together well" = crap, the use of the french lyrics are pretty bad too. 'what goes on' - i don't think i've listened to this song more than 5 times

'If I Needed Someone' seems to go on forever, and I don't remember 'Wait' at all. But I've never liked 'Nowhere Man' and I just don't get the praise heaped on it, so that's where my vote's going.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 21 September 2009 21:00 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^Is pretty much my take, though Wait is one of my favourties on this LP, as is The Word.
Nowhere Man is a bit draggy though. Where it is placed on the album doesn't help - as someone else noted it comes after You Won't See Me which is similar sounding.

And not to drop a challop or anything, but I prefer this album to Revolver.

I think we all agree "Think for yourself" is fine.

"What Goes On" is by a mile the least thing here (even including the simple but strange "The Word"). I just listened to it to remember how it goes and have already forgotten again. MASSIVELY overshadowed by the Velvets song of same name. I do remember it has nice Scotty Moore style guitar though...

I was pondering "No Reply" off of Beatles For Sale yesterday, and realized that while the usual reading of it is that he's hanging out outside his girlfriend's house and watching her comings and goings, which is pretty creepy by itself, there's room to imagine that he's hanging around the house of a girl who has no idea who he is at all.

Good read. And now I love that song more than ever!

"Wait" is fortunate to be so forgettable that it's going to lose to a more famous/memorable song.

i like "what goes on" for continuing the bakersfield flirtation begun with "act naturally." ringo's country leanings were charming, and i think even influential in a pre-gram-parsons way.

'wait' is great song!

I think we all agree "Think for yourself" is fine.

― Mark G, Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:10 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

classic for the fuzz bass alone (tho the rest of it's good too).

also since i grew up knowing the american version, i really miss "i've just seen a face," which to me feels way more rubber soul than help!
― flying squid attack (tipsy mothra), Monday, September 21, 2009 7:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Agreed.

always astounded me that there is no drive my car on the (original) american version of this album. this country is weird. and no nowhere man!
― scott seward, Monday, September 21, 2009 11:45 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

"Drive My Car" and "Day Tripper" seem like perfect bookends for Yesterday And Today .. "Nowhere Man" seems to fit on either album perfectly. I have a great appreciation for Y&T because it helps make the transition between Rubber Soul and Revolver more gradual. MMT did the same thing to help transition between Pepper and "The White Album."

What makes Y&T a strange release, however, is to think that Americans got to hear 3 of the songs on Revolver before anyone else in the world. But I personally think it's just as compelling of a release as MMT.

yeah i think yesterday and today has a vibe all its own. among other things it sort of consolidates and focuses the growing drugginess ("i'm only sleeping," "doctor robert," "day tripper"). and there's a consistency of guitar tone and attack from "drive my car" to "and your bird can sing" to "day tripper."

And now I love that song more than ever!

I know, right? It made me like it more, too. The lyric that made me think that is "I'll forgive the lies that I heard before/ when you gave me no reply." It's possible to lie with silence or omission, of course, but anyone who's peering up at windows in his spare time is maybe an unreliable narrator. He might hear lies in his head all the time, even when no one's saying anything.

Is any of the hand-wringing over Run For Life being done by people who like (what could be perceived as) violence-encouraging lyrics in rap?

What? Who cares? That's so far outside this context.

How is it outside of this context, Kenan? At all? people are objecting to a song because it suggests the protagonist (who may be the singer / writer rather than an invented fictional narrator) wants to kill a girl; how's that any more objectionable than listening to a song about wanting to shoot a gang rival, or a song that very explicitly depicts attacking your wife? People who got upset about Kim by Eminem were roundly chastised for not understanding the narrative remove / drama / etc of the performance. "Eminem didn't really kill his wife, of course he didn't, hahahaha"; no, but he probably slapped her as much as Lennon slapped his wife. And put RFYL in context; 3 songs earlier he's singing that he loves a woman, possibly the same one as he's singing about in RFYL, more than all the other people and places in his life. Which is true? Are both true? Neither?

see i think he does kill her, along with all the other Beatles. explains the record cover doesn't it? THEY'RE ALL LOOKING DOWN INTO HER GRAVE

Americans got to hear 3 of the songs on Revolver before anyone else in the world

Damn, that never occurred to me! That is weird.

But "I've just seen a face" on Rubber Soul just seems so wrong!

People who got upset about Kim by Eminem were roundly chastised for not understanding the narrative remove / drama / etc of the performance.

I was one of those listeners who had big problems with that song when it first came out. In fact, years ago I wrote a letter to the Village Voice, taking Xgau to task for giving The Marshall Mathers LP an “A,” while reserving his bottom-of-the-barrel “E” for Guns N’Roses' G N’ R Lies. The latter album was full of gay bashing and violence, so he called his grade “a call to boycott.” I thought this was hypocritical, since in his Marshall Mathers LP review Xgau wrote there was “no point moralizing” about Eminem and called on listeners to “disable your prejudgment button and you’ll hear a work of art.”
Xgau’s reply was that “Axl Rose’s lyrical content is one-dimensional and offensive, while Eminem’s is complex and disturbing. One invites you to hate, the other forces you to think.” Simply put, I got bitch slapped and I’ve since come around to understanding what Eminem was doing. Still, it’s fun to argue about this stuff.

Is it? Or are you inviting me to think about how pointless it all is?

Alls I know is that when people are arguing about unsavory or upsetting lyrics and someone pipes up and says "yeah but what about all that nasty RAP?" I switch off.

(I'm really asking for it, aren't I?)

A little ramble, just a few things I've been thinking about that may or may not be necessarily correct...

Brian Wilson allegedly "flipped out" when he first heard Rubber Soul (as he would for nearly every following Beatles album), believing it to contain "only great songs". It would go on to influence Pet Sounds which could be seen as a quasi-concept album about relationships and their ups and downs. Looking at Rubber Soul's tracklisting, you can not only kind of see how Brian was influenced to create his most acclaimed record, but also a narrative that runs from "Wouldn't It Be Nice" through to "Caroline No" mirroring "Drive My Car" through to "Run For Your Life".

Rubber Soul's narrative is much darker and more scathing than that of Pet Sounds, which does have its depressive moments but doesn't go so far to end with a death threat. Both albums start with idealistic intentions, Brian wishing for maturity (echoing the sentiments on "So Young" and "We'll Run Away" from previous albums) so that he may fully appreciate his young love. "Drive My Car" is also idealistic, but it is the object of the protagonist's fascination who has the dream of being "famous/a star of the screen". The girl is portrayed as materialistic and probably a user of men, but the upbeat protagonist seems naive to her intentions, and quite happy to play the submissive role she has assigned him ("Beep beep beep beep yeah!").

The way I like to look at it, if these are loose concept albums, the shared themes are love, resentment and maturity. The most obvious link on Pet Sounds is "Caroline No", a song about his disappointment with a girl who became misguided and jaded in his eyes as she grew up. Rubber Soul deals with this theme a lot - the naive protagonist of "Drive My Car" being tripped up and heartbroken through "You Won't See Me", "What Goes On", "Girl" and "I'm Looking Through You". His emotional turmoil leads him to feel lost and reclusive ("Nowhere Man"), or lustful over other impossible-to-reach women ("Michelle"). He becomes embittered and lives in denial on "If I Needed Someone", and then of course there's his full on vitriol on "Run For Your Life" where he cannot believe how foolish he had been to accept this harpy of a girl into his life, plotting violent revenge in his mind.

Incidentally, "You Still Believe In Me" was originally titled "In My Childhood", perhaps a link to the Beatles' "In My Life", but I haven't read those original lyrics. Other lyrical themes the two albums share is that of disappearance and transparency, notably "You Won't See Me", "This Bird Has Flown", "I'm Looking Through You" and "Nowhere Man" with the Beatles, "That's Not Me", "Let's Go Away For A While" and "Here Today" plus maybe a few meta-physical allusions throughout "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times". Funny how in some (bad) relationships one can feel as though part of one's soul is disappearing, at the same time as wanting to physically withdraw from the world around oneself.

This album has no narrative

And neither does "Pet Sounds"

if you say so, but if someone is writing about day to day situations, then often they will incorporate themes about their own lives (both bands definitely did this) and so you do get lyrical themes whether they're intentional or not.

Pet Sounds has a theme, if not a narrative, as it's about Brian Wilson dealing with becoming an adult in a kicking-and-screaming kind of way, which I frankly relate to even now. I don't see it in Rubber Soul, though.

Which is true of most albums ever released? (xp)

Sure, most albums with lyrics anyway, although some more than others. I'm not claiming incite into some complex Frippian concept album, but these are albums with lyrical themes, and the themes on Rubber Soul are drastically different to those on the White Album for instance. Whether there is an intentional narrative on Rubber Soul or not, I don't care, but if you listen to it from start to finish there is a subconscious journey from the carefree naivety of "Drive My Car" through to the dark mania of "Run For Your Life". The songs work together as an album, incorporating themes and concepts that complement each other which is why IMHO it's the first really GREAT Beatles record, previous albums being very good but working as a collection of songs rather than a complete statement.

I obviously don't listen to albums the same way as you, but, fair enough if that's what it means to you

It does help if you listen to it standing on your head admittedly ;-)

Charlie, you're missing some key things about Rubber Soul: 1; there are TWO (no, THREE) (wait, THE AND A HALF) songwriters present, and 2; Drive My Car is a joke song, with a punchline, not a statement of idealistic anything, and 3; Norwegian Wood has the protagonist burning down the woman's house in only the second song, totally derailing your narrative.

"Drive My Car" is also idealistic, but it is the object of the protagonist's fascination who has the dream of being "famous/a star of the screen".

this is a faulty read of the lyrics, it's the woman who says this, not the narrator.

the song is a gag... the punchline is that in the end she doesn't have a car, but now she at least has a driver.

okay i read your post wrong. my misread.

Is it? Or are you inviting me to think about how pointless it all is?

Alls I know is that when people are arguing about unsavory or upsetting lyrics and someone pipes up and says "yeah but what about all that nasty RAP?" I switch off.

― tie me up, dress in drag, and read to me from the bible (kenan), Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:02 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

(I'm really asking for it, aren't I?)

― tie me up, dress in drag, and read to me from the bible (kenan), Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:04 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

All I'm doing, dude, is calling out bullshit double standards and hypocrisy, as I see it. The same people who don't get their knickers in a twist about a rapper using perceivably misogynistic terminology for whatever reason ARE getting het up about Lennon using perceivably misogynistic terminology, and whenever there's that kind of double standard there's either an agenda or a lack of thought or misdirected over-thinking.

Charlie; I reckon you could read just as much narrative flow into Beatles For Sale and Hard Day's Night if you wished.

suspect some of the "Run For Your Life" haters are just fine with "Hey Joe". maybe it's the jaunty black humor plus implied sense of real darkness (i.e. knowing Lennon) behind "Run..."

The inconsistency could be explained by the simple fact that RFYL was recorded by the biggest group in history. Randy Newman's escaped vilification only because so few people have heard his records.

"The Word" is the worst.

Brian Wilson allegedly "flipped out" when he first heard Rubber Soul (as he would for nearly every following Beatles album)

Only the next two, although "Sgt. Pepper" would made him flip out forever of course.

"What Goes On" suffers from exceedingly sloppy playing. Listen to the stereo version and pan hard to one side or the other. Ouch! The definition of phoning it in.

"Drive My Car" is also idealistic, but it is the object of the protagonist's fascination who has the dream of being "famous/a star of the screen". The girl is portrayed as materialistic and probably a user of men, but the upbeat protagonist seems naive to her intentions, and quite happy to play the submissive role she has assigned him ("Beep beep beep beep yeah!").

― dog latin, Tuesday, 22 September 2009 18:04 (Yesterday) Bookmark

it's about fucking a wannabe starlet, so i'm not sure how naive or submissive or idealistic the singer's supposed to be. since rshe hasn't even got a car, all the driving stuff is just proto r. kelly ignition talk surely?

I like dog latin's read, not because I think this album has any sort of intentional narrative, but because I think he's right that what would have fascinated Brian Wilson here is a sudden depth or at lest grown-uppy-ness to the LOVE songs. The Beatles get so much hype for having somehow advanced the genre beyond love songs whatsoever, but unfortunately when they do that (at least at this stage) they get dull, tugid preach-a-thons like "Nowhere Man," which would be the worst song on here if not for the even duller and more listless "Girl." Anyway though, they're starting to write lyrics from the perspective of grownups dealing with complicated, pain-in-the-ass relationships (which they'd been dealing with as people for quite some years now), rather than themes and narratives discovered and reprocessed from the general milieu of pop songs. There's nothing quite as haunting as a "Caroline No" here but "I'm Looking Through You" points the way directly there in terms of narrative.

But then I look at the actual tracklist (as opposed to the album in my head) and I can't find much more to sustain this and plenty to refute it. So....nevermind. I stand by hating "Girl" though - total drag of a song, hated it from the first time I heard it.

what goes on, just because it isn't quite as good as the others. I like all the underrated songs on this like "wait"

People hatin on Michelle need to get out of the closet and admit they're active xenophobes and that the real reason they don't like the song is because it has oddly pronounced french snippets.

Yeah I don't like Michelle and I most certainly don't like you, you fucking frog.

There appear to be two types of Beatles fans - ones who like Michelle, Octopus's Garden, Yellow Sub, Bungalow Bill, Maxwell's Silver Hammer etc - and those who really really don't.

Personally I like the whimsy of their nursery rhyme songs - without them they wouldn't really be the Beatles.

I don't like Michelle and do like Bungalow Bill. I'M SUCH A MOULD-BREAKER.

Do like Octopus and Submarine, don't like, in fact hate, Silver Hammer.

don't believe you, you have to fit into the type!!!!

"Wait" is the only Beatles song I cannot bring to mind at all.

But it's unfair to vote for it: It was the only 'early' album of theirs I didn't grow up with.

My parents owned most of them, from "Hard days night" to "Pepper" (some of them on German Odeon, we were RAF stationed), but RubSoul slipped through the move back to the UK.

Trust me; Wait is wicked.

I do, and you know.

There appear to be two types of Beatles fans - ones who like Michelle, Octopus's Garden, Yellow Sub, Bungalow Bill, Maxwell's Silver Hammer etc - and those who really really don't.

Sophisticated perfect pop songs such as "Michelle" and "Bungalow Bill" should not be lumped with stupid and banal three chord songs like "Octopus's Garden" and "Yellow Submarine" (and, well, "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" too, although I kind of like that one because of the synths)

RIght, caught up with "Wait", and you're quite right, it's great.

And I do now remember it. After having heard it.

"Octopus's Garden" garden uses the same classic I-vi-IV-V progression as "I've Just Seen A Face," "I'll Get You" and other songs by One True Musical Genius Paul McCartney, Geir. And it rather cleverly modulates from E to A for the solo.

"Octopus's Garden" garden is written by Ringoringo.

It's kind of funny everybody getting pissed off about Run for Your Life. Ever heard "Down By the River" by Neil Young? Plus about a million other songs like this.

I dunno how many people on this thread are really pissed off about RFYL - but the striking thing about it is how CONVINCING it sounds relative to many other songs in this vein that I've heard. John just radiates this nasty, manipulative abusive-husband quality here, almost viscerally.

Exactly, that's why it's good.

"Octopus's Garden" garden uses the same classic I-vi-IV-V progression as "I've Just Seen A Face," "I'll Get You" and other songs by One True Musical Genius Paul McCartney, Geir

Those aren't exactly his masterpieces though. Particularly not "I'll Get You".

http://battellemedia.com/images/fox03f.jpg

My late two cents:

I had to vote 'What Goes On'...part of me likes the countryfied Ringo, but AGH I cannot STAND the weird picking on the guitar. It's so frakking loud and disonant and it sounds like a cat is walking across it and it makes me a little crazy. (crazier?)

And fwiw, I love 'Run For Your Life'. I like the disconnect between the catchiness of the tune and the darkness of the lyrics. I don't get the hate. I mean, the way I read it, this anticipates Nick Cave. Yes the subject matter is disturbing to say the least but these types of songs are a dime a dozen and if you're going to get het up about this you have to get het up about those and honestly I get more creeped out by Neil Sedaka singing You're 16 You're Beautiful and You're Mine. But that's just me.

guitar is GREAT on that song

'What Goes On' I mean

I stand by hating "Girl" though - total drag of a song, hated it from the first time I heard it.

I put it on a brand new fresh 2-disc mix of the remastered stuff for Juli4, and she specifically pointed it out as annoying. We're all very very different people, we're all dogfaces, etc.

yeah, if you don't like the guitar on that song, i think you're missing the genius of it... rip george harrison. rip chet atkins.

It does sound like it's on the wrong album.

Thanks to the above, I've had "Wait" in my brane all last night and now.

Sophisticated perfect pop songs such as "Michelle" and "Bungalow Bill"

Oh Hongropaws

Funny thing is, I was playing this yesterday, and whoa! The drums slow down for no apparent reason during "You won't see me"

Which is possibly where the whole "Lol Ringo Drumming" comes from.

I won't cast a vote in this one. I've always thought "Drive My Car" and "In My Life" were overrated, and "Michelle" a bit cloying, but nothing jumps out at me the way some previous votes did. A couple of the songs getting mentioned--"What Goes On" and "I'm Looking Through You"--I like fine. This is one case where my signals are getting scrambled by the U.S./U.K. difference. The Rubber Soul that leads with "I've Just Seen a Face" seems much more right to me than the arrangement above.

Yeah, at some point we should do a TS: Rubber Soul vs Rubber Soul - I think this is the only US issue that really is serious competition for, or maybe better than, the British tracklist. (And Beatles '65 vs Beatles For Sale, maybe.)

I def prefer the US version of Rubber Soul, but even so Michelle would still be the standout stinker

xpost Surely it's down to whichever you grew up with?

I mean, RS Starting with "Ivejustseenaface" just seems wrong! It's Beatles For Sale! With the white and gold label! It just is!

oh buggr, I mean "Help"...

There appear to be two types of Beatles fans - ones who like Michelle, Octopus's Garden, Yellow Sub, Bungalow Bill, Maxwell's Silver Hammer etc - and those who really really don't.

I like Michelle but hate the rest. Michelle is pretty, the rest are annoying.

xpost Surely it's down to whichever you grew up with?

oh yeah, def the case with me. this was the only Beatles album my parents owned, and the first one I remember listening to (the other was a cassette copy of Yesterday... And Today)

always thought it was weird that "you won't see me" comes right before "nowhere man," since they have the exact same "ooooh-la-la-la" backing vocals. if you're going to be lazy, don't be so obvious about it.

I think you'll find that "You Won't See Me" goes "ooh la la la" while "Nowhere Man" goes "aaah la la la." An important distinction.

From the remaster, I have ascertained that the backing vocals to "Girl" go dit dit dit, not tit tit tit as per what they all said...

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Even though I love the music on 'What Goes On', the singing is just flat and dreadful... So there.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Poor Ringo.

fuck this poll

really terribly wrong.

Not suprised by that. But I am surprised for the high number of votes for Michelle :-(

wow, 'you won't see me' all the way at the bottom. that song for me (and 'what goes on') are a minor rupture in what for me is one of the most freely flowing albums out there.

run for your life's ace!

^^^^^^ otm.

this is what happens when people without a sense of humor get to vote for things...

"Run For Your Life" = the song where Lennon threatens with honour murder....

yeah but TUNE though all the same.

don't think i voted in this one, but listening to the mono mix this morning was awesome -- much punchier and more powerful than the old CD I had. Think I would've voted "Girl" in this poll, though -- kinda sounds like Lennon's impersonating McCartney poorly.

To whoever voted "In My Life": "Ooh, you have such a big, manly challops!"

"Girl" voterz = teh insane!

I like Lennon's early vocal take on Run for your Life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpV5T8q5XI&feature=related

I like that, and nice photos too. D'you think they'd ever release a full anthology before the copyright runs out? Given that Apple skip between authenticity and cash-in seemingly at will, it does seem the logical end-point for the catalogue.

I'm really into "You Won't See Me" right now. The instrumental performance is oddly sloppy (seems to speed and slow down like they couldn't find the tempo they wanted, doesn't sound very 'crisp') but it's such a good song.

Always thought it was kind of cool how "You Won't See Me" and "I'm Looking Through You" are written from opposite perspectives inside the same relationship.

"Girl" is excruciating.

i like the tempo shifts in "you won't see me" -- they kinda match the narrator's needy, coming-apart-at-the-seams tone. he's trying to keep it together but getting all worked up in spite of himself, and so is the instrumentation.

Both the Harrison tracks on this are very underrated.

You Won't See Me is when the album proper kicks in imo. Amazed that two people picked it as the worst.

listened to this yesterday, so great, but man, "run for your life" really is a weak tune. like an outtake from two years earlier, compared to the glory of everything else on the LP. even what goes on!

it's always amazed me how half-assed it sounds, right down to the jarringly out-of-tune solo.

Does nobody except me and Geir take "Run For Your Life" to be the worst song on this record just by virtue of it being creepy and gross?

i mean it's also that.

but i don't find 'baby, let's play house' to be creepy or gross!

hate Michelle so much more than Run For Your Life. even as a little kid I knew that song sucked.

have always thought of Run For Your Life as being sung by some old-timey mustache-twirling movie serial villain

i wonder if i was the one that voted for "i'm looking through you"? i really, REALLY hate the organ blasts on the chorus. they grate enough that i usually skip the song, even though i love the verses.

Shakey otm

xp i think that's ringo on the organ stabs! i like those.

lol those are the part of the song my daughter loves - like, shrieks of delight ensue

& yeah i don't care that much about the nastiness of run for your life's lyrics, it just is such an uninspired performance and a cruddy way to end a classic album. "in my life" would've been such a perfect closer.

I kinda like Run For Your Life. The backing vocals and "that's the end-AH" raise it up a notch.

I like how they completely got away with it

i really like run for your life but it coming in second on this poll after what goes on seems about right. it should have been a rolling stones song maybe.

i do really like the chord progression in the chorus - don't really have the music language to describe it accurately but how it bounces back and forth jauntily between two chords for the first two lines and then switches for the third line with that creepy minor chord under the "man" in "find you with another man"

i think it's a weak performance/recording of a good song

yeah, could be. i mean, i think the main thing that bugs me is the placement there at the end. if it was somewhere in the middle, i might not care that much.

I want to go on record as LOVING the organ stabs.

RFYL is what makes this record very much not 'a gas' all the way through.

The organ stabs were one of my favorite Beatles things when I was first getting into them.

this whole album is terrible except for maybe--MAYBE--four songs

I'm not particularly fond of "I'm Looking Through You,"

wtf Alfred

and ZS!

its got the best back-sleeve of any Fabs LP

http://www.jpgr.co.uk/pcs3075_b.jpg

Love that picture of George in the cowboy hat.

Bugged me at the time they put it on "Revolver" as well

My god I never noticed that before

I love how influential that back cover was - both the back of "Pet sounds" and "Fifth dimension" and the inner gatefold of "Blonde on blonde" are in debt to it.

I love "Run for your life" fwiw. You can tell that time was running out on the album, they had run out of songs - hence "Wait", a reject from "Help!" sessions, getting overdubs - and George Martin always wanted what he called 'potboilers' to open and close each album side, so John just steals a line or two from an Elvis song, they throw the song around a bit, there's some chaotic guitar, and I think there's a sort of ramshackle charm (ignoring the lyrics) to the performance., and I love the tone of John's vocal too.

I hated upthread on the preachiness of "Nowhere Man," but I will say that if you're not paying attention to its high-falutin', early Simon & Garfunkel-esque lyrics, it has a really great sound and the backing vocals give it a nice little boost of momentum. Definitely more than one cut above "Girl."

i always read 'nowhere man' as a glum self-portrait by lennon more than as a finger-wagging lecture.

Are there any other fans of Think For Yourself around? I Love the harmonies and delivery in the verses, particularly "And you've got time to rec-ti-fy all the things that you should".

I like "Think For Yourself" in the way that I like all those early glum George songs, it's just fun to sing along with his weird flat grumping and the backing vocals really flesh it out.

Ugh, can't believe "What Goes On" won this... it's fun!

The coffee shop just played this straight thru, found it very tough to keep my headphones on and focus on my reading. "The Word" jumoed out at me in dumbness in a way it never had before... I mean what a preachy douche! I think I always gave it more intensity after being introduced to it in the Anthology doc, where it soundtracks them being hassled by the Marcos regime or something; the singer is an authoritarian taskmaster and the clanging opening is an icy show of force.

"Girl" still my pick though. God, shut UP.

I quite like both those songs.

No way, "The Word" is amazing, it's basically a 90s trance song.

Though yes it is kind of fascist.

*hissingly breathes in loudly through teeth*, girl style

i don't like the word either. putting aside the lyrics, it's just generic and boring, like a computer simulation of a low-tier british invasion song

Think of it as a dry run for "Tomorrow Never Knows". It's drone rock.

i would love to think of it like that, but i can't hear the connection! i want to understand. i want to like it.

the only parts of the song that i enjoy are the short 4-bar phrases where it's not so generic (lyrics during those sections: "In the beginning I misunderstood / But now I've got it, the word is good", "Everywhere I go I hear it said / In the good and bad books that I have read", and "Now that I know what I feel must be right / I'm here to show everybody the light", and even those parts are sullied by the words, ironically

i kinda think of it as a proto-manson family cult song! sort of a preview all the creepy guru types who would come to prominence in the late 60s. but i don' t think that is intentional on the part of the beatles, just a reflection of what came after.

from wikipedia: "John Lennon gave Yoko Ono the original sheets to the song just before their relationship began."

lol, imagine someone giving you a sheet of paper with the lyrics to "the word" on it

Yoko was always slumming, art-wise, with John. I wonder if ever cringed at his newbishness introducing him around or whatever.

eh Yoko could be equally dopey, they were made for each other.

I like the song (primarily for the organ blasts), I kinda take it the way tyler does

The weed had decisively kicked in, having progressed from "ugh, good thing we have this weed to get us through this film shoot" to "dude...like....LOVE, man..."

I love this song. One of Ringo's best, the piano intro is unfuckwithable, and Paul's bass flourish at 1:14 is all-time.

The lyrics never bothered me; they sound wonderful.

Anyone read the new Manson bio? Holy shit, it's great. I never knew that Paul said Helter Skelter was about the end of civilizations like the Roman Empire...oops!

lol, imagine someone giving you a sheet of paper with the lyrics to "the word" on it

― Karl Malone, Thursday, May 7, 2015 11:44 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was a bit more than that...

http://images.popmatters.com/news_art/e/enter-mus-beatleslyrics-1-t.jpg

was just listening to the 13th floor elevators' version of the word and it is even more cult-y in roky's hands.

WOAH i had no idea 13FE covered it....

https://youtu.be/bKP-VjoKYVc
don't know how much they did it, but it's the opener here

What? Where? How? Ah, nice!

(and not to hijack thread with self-promo, but here's why i was listening to that: http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/760-invisible-hits-these-are-the-driving-sounds-of-the-13th-floor-elevators/)

Nice!

Funny I always thought the words were "Now that I know our view must be right" which is way more culty.

hold onto your hats, fans of The Word

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7-QJ9di7E

I was reminded of this song recently when I heard a Stars On 45 Beatles medley... or it might have been a 60s medley, anyway it lasted about as long as the 60s.

... neatly ties in with this thread

That drum fill at 28 seconds in is hilarious.

It is possible to sing the lyrics of In My Life to the tune of The Word and it fits quite nicely:

There are plaaaaaa-cesI remember
All my liiiiiiiii-fethough some have cha-anged
Some for eeeeeee-vernot for better
Some are gooooooneand some re-mai-ain.

etc.

God, John (or maybe Paul) sounds hoarse as shit on that recording! The overdubs must have been particularly welcome in this period, though they also conveniently expand the pothead love-in feel they were probably going for.

there are many days when i think most songs on this album are terrible and that is an awkward transitional album between the early and later stuff

no way, this is their best album and the mood of brittle unpleasantness that runs through most of it is what makes it compelling

I had a theory about all of the songs on this album coming in pairs, You Won't See Me + Nowhere Man, What Goes On + Run for Your Life etc

McCartney has suggested that You Won't See Me and I'm Looking Through You were both about the same relationship through the eyes of the opposite partners.

Yeah, I've always 'twinned' them though it sounds a bit lame like that: "You won't see me!" "Confirmed, I sure can't!"

an awkward transitional album between the early and later stuff

Funny thing, they recorded Rubber Soul and Revolver pretty much back-to-back. They finished RS in November, 1965, and started Revolver the following April, with no intervening tours or live performances.

yea but a lot of dope and lsd were consumed in those few months

no way, this is their best album and the mood of brittle unpleasantness that runs through most of it is what makes it compelling

yup, has long been my favorite

I always thought Help! was the awkward transitional record, encompassing the stoned heaviness of "Ticket To Ride," the stoned banality of "The Night Before," the tunesmith-hackery of "Tell Me What You See," and their last oldie rock 'n' roll cover ("Dizzy Miss Lizzie").

Rubber Soul blows. three excellent songs - Girl, In My Life, I'm Looking Through You. rest is sexist crap

Why is Girl less sexist than Michelle or The Word? Just wondering.

God, John (or maybe Paul) sounds hoarse as shit on that recording! The overdubs must have been particularly welcome in this period, though they also conveniently expand the pothead love-in feel they were probably going for.

― Doctor Casino, Thursday, May 7, 2015 2:24 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm sure he thought the same way, that's why just about every Lennon song from then on is covered in effects. Only when he met Yoko and did the White Album and try out minimalism did he get better.

I think you can say this is also a consequence of the Beatles being unable to perform music, screaming girls and poor amplification/concert technology overshadowing any shows they did. Stopping playing shows was the best thing they could do for their music in more ways than simply indulgence and novelty. Freed from spending the whole day in busses to and from press events and venues, they could just show up around midnight and play music together all night long.

You could make a graph, with x being hours per day playing music together and y being quality of performance and chart it alongside their evolution. Starting out of course doing music all the time multi shows a night in Hamburg etc producing virtuoso rock like "I Saw Her Standing There" and "Twist and Shout". When Beatlemania struck it paid a heavily toll on their performances, and they cited it as one of the main reasons for stopping.

Drugs/Dylan were part of that too, once they entered the picture the songs took themselves less seriously. "Beatles for Sale" / "Rubber Soul" is a kind of proto punk rock folk album series. They didn't smile on the covers, they embraced primitive/shitty performances, wrote comedy songs, ended an album w a song about abuse. John always said it was his "Fat Elvis" period, I'm sure they hung around enough cool art shows and stuff to hear from underground people that they were fake and corporate now. They even felt that way about themselves, I think.

The songwriting was always good, and the chemistry between the players, even if the performances suffered. I think in some songs they intentionally played bad. But they were never technically amazing individual performers imo in a music school sense. They knew that, I'm sure, because every time they had an overdub all of the orchestra players would be laughing about this pop crap. So the Beatles started freeing up and trying experiments, even if it was annoying or bad in the normal sense. They knew this stuff wouldn't be played at shows. Nobody bothered setting up a decent PA at these massive shows they were playing, so it didn't matter what they were playing. They knew they were laying golden shits.

The cranked-up misogyny are perhaps revealing of some horrible real world stuff that nobody will ever know. This was a different era after all and covering up that stuff was/is rampant in the biz. Then again it seems deliberate, maybe a reaction to people telling them the Rolling Stones are real bad boys and the Beatles are plastic corporate shills.

iirc correctly this was the first album they did that was not on the strict 9-5 office hours/union regulations basis. there's a whole spiel about it in the remastered booklet.

I've always liked "Girl" - it fascinated me as a child, particularly the bleak way John sings the "Was she told when she was young" verse. If you weren't hypnotized by it at a tender age, though, I can understand the urge to shout "NOPE" and turn it off when he leads with "Is there anybody going to listen to my story?" the way I do every time that Green Day song comes on the radio.

i like the melody on 'Girl'. I'm with you, hd

It is pleasingly otherworldly.

xposts, yes the final way John spits out "Will she still believe it when he's Dead!" and then goes softly back into the nice chorus again.

boy, I love George's work on "What Goes On."

Also...that this album, "Run for Your Life" aside, is misogynist is...a strange take. Rob Sheffied was correct:

Rubber Soul has the coolest girls of any Beatles record. “Girl,” “I’m Looking Through You,” “If I Needed Someone” — these are complex and baffling females, much like the ones the Beatles ended up with in real life. No happy romantic endings here, with the notable exception of “In My Life” — but even when the girls are way ahead of them, the boys spend the album straining to keep up. Baby, you’ve changed.

I don't really get the aversion to "What Goes On" either.

"Michelle" voters are nuts.

"What Goes On" isn't "How She Boogalooed It" ffs

You're right, "How She Boogalooed It" is better.

I think of 'Run For Your Life' as grotesque pantomime, in a way which reminds me of Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP. Lennon putting these horrible lyrics to a psychotically jaunty tune, it just sounds like black humour, and successful black humour too. I know Lennon didn't feel this way about it, but I really can't hear anything else.

that actually seems otm. reminds me of lennon's drawings and poems from the same era, which have a similar kind of black humor.

I've always heard it as dark humor, but then I've always heard "Under My Thumb" the same way, so it's possible I'm just in denial.

worth remembering that those opinions were expressed in 1980 when his views on women had changed radically

(Lennon’s opinions on RFYL I mean)

I don't suppose they ever played it live

The thread title is a real trick question though isn't it?

Yes esp as there's no 'all of them, except maybe three" option

Also...that this album, "Run for Your Life" aside, is misogynist is...a strange take. Rob Sheffied was correct:

Rubber Soul has the coolest girls of any Beatles record. “Girl,” “I’m Looking Through You,” “If I Needed Someone” — these are complex and baffling females

To write off women as 'baffling' is not a particularly enlightened take; the girl in Girl is definitely made out to be needy & manipulative. Also the long drawn-in sigh in the middle of the chorus is... odd.

To my ears the songs don't write them off – the songwriters seem puzzled by adulthood – nor is it unusual for women to baffle young men.

It's a sigh? I took it as a drag on a cigarette.

nor is it unusual for women to baffle young men

ok but that's less 'complex and baffling females' than 'naive and baffled males'.

"I'm Looking Through You" is 50% a sad, how-did-things-go-wrong "Caroline No" type song, and 50% a Dylan "you're so dumb" song - I'm on a higher plane than you and can see through you etc. I wouldn't quite call it misogynistic, but it does fit into a pattern of songs where women are, yeah, unknowable and alien and kinda "difficult." Like as a whole this isn't an album where women come off well or as complete human beings, but except for "Run For Your Life" I also don't think it stands out as particularly egregious for 1965.

that's fair

post

As far as male posturing, the Harrisongs come off worse.

It's a sigh? I took it as a drag on a cigarette.

https://i.imgur.com/PgqkZ7R.jpg

Still maintain this album's theme is a macabre or supernatural obsession with invisibility or intangibility.
This is not least abetted by the spooky rumours surrounding the album's cover, the Beatles' first forays into psychedelic drugs, and their weariness at being recognised everywhere they went.
'I'm Looking Through You' and 'You Won't See Me', are the obvious ones from the song titles.
'Nowhere Man' too, denotes a figure living a half-life in a half-world. I've always pictured the title character standing and looking at the world from the edge of a cliff.
'Girl' - this mysterious, anonymous spectral woman who drifts into John's life to cause him heartbreak before gloaming back out, that sharp intake of breath giving the song a sinister turn.
'In My Life' could be seen as the reflections of someone on the edge of death, his life flashing across his eyes before his soul leaves him.
And then there's the threatening 'Run For Your Life' - Is that the spectre of In My Life's dead man coming back to haunt his former lover OH NO PAUL IS DEAD OH NO!!!

I have never ever understood what the controversy on the sigh or the 'tit tit tit' background vocals were. do I seriously thyink they were hilariously slipping the word 'tit' into a song that would get radio play? no, it sounds like 'dit dit dit' to me. I have zero idea what people think the sign represents....seething anger? resignation? an orgasm? what am I missing?

Didn't George and Paul both admit they wanted to say "tit"

But instead of “la la la,” they’d put a spin on it with “dit dit dit.” Taking it a step further in what Paul called their “waggishness,” they changed it to “tit tit tit tit.” He remembered George Martin, the Beatles’ buttoned-up producer, wondering what exactly they were saying in a moment like that.

“Martin might say, ‘Was that “dit dit” or “tit tit” you were singing?'” Paul said. “‘Oh, ‘dit dit,’ George, but it does sound a bit like that, doesn’t it? Then we’d get in the car and break down laughing.”

i guess they were easily amused

Didn't you ever write "BOOBS" on a calculator

Then again this is more like painting boobs on a canvas and selling it to people

*takes mournful drag on cig*

LOL @ dog latin still trying to find some sort of concept behind this album.

i guess they were easily amused constantly high as balls