Best Pitchfork-Approved Album of the Decade: Low vs. Daydream Nation vs. OK Computer vs. Kid A

Inspiration:

I was listening to it, BTW, to see how P2K's top album of the decade from the 70s -- 00s compare to each other. So it's Low v. Daydream Nation v. OK Computer v. Kid A.

Might be a good poll, actually. But I'm not sure just being the No. 1 disc of a decade (according to Pitchfork) creates an especially meaningful comparison.

― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, October 4, 2009 12:28 PM (3 days ago)

seeing as how I don't listen to Radiohead at all and "Low" gets slightly more play than "Daydream Nation" at my house - Bowie wins

I knew this concept sounded familiar.

threads very sadly much in character

Low
OK Computer
Daydream Nation
Kid A

threads very sadly much in character

It would hardly be an ilxor-started thread without a dejected Whiney reply. Icing on the cake, my friend.

I'm tempted to agree with your ranking, btw.

low > kid a = ok computer > daydream nation

it's really, really close tho for me, i like all these

I mean
Low is a classic
OK Computer is an amazing rock album that got confused for an "important" album
Daydream Nation is wildly overrated
and Kid A is just boring

I like all these discs. I probably like Low the most, but I wonder how much of that is based on a tendency to overstate the importance of things done in the past -- when I was a kid and more impressed with rock stars -- and understate the importance of things done now -- when I'm an adult and less impressionable.

ok computer i guess...prob the only one i would just throw on the cd player.

OK Computer
Low
Kid A
Daydream Nation

Love the top 3 though, and it's pretty hard to choose between them.

DN

3-way tie for first (so no vote), Kid A bringing up the rear.

the idea that one band dominated the musical landscape for both the 90s and the 00s is kinda ludicrous to me

(but maybe that's reading too much into "Album of the Decade")

Kid A is the only one I've discounted. Low and DN need to be listened to a whole load more but I suspect I'll be going OKC

...needless to say, the idea that any of these albums are the best of their decade is slightly laughable to me but wth

Because I've never heard Low and think Daydream is hardly SY's best record, I voted for OK Computer, although it could've just as easily been Kid A on another day.

"Exit Music," "Let Down," and "The Tourist" are some of RH's best tunes.

I haven't tried to listen to Daydream in a while, but looking at the tracklist on Wikipedia, there's nothing I want to even hear right now except for "Teenage Riot." Compare that to, say, Evol, Sister, or Sonic Nurse, all of which I'd happily listen to straight through right now.

Trilogy is still fucking godhead tbh but some of the album is a bit murktastic

The fact that Pfork put Nevermind at #6 of their 90s list under things like Neutral Milk Hotel and Radiohead just makes me think I must have grown up with a completely different background than other music writers or something.

what a totally uninspiring list of records.

hey, good job, I knew this thread was missing something

Whiney OTM

music is a gift given to us by God through the people who made these wonderful recordings.

Whiney: The nineties list was done in '03, at which point I'm assuming there'd be enough obvious-Nevermind-canonization fatigue that people would vote for it just that one spot lower, putting some fresher favorite ahead; I'd also guess, age-wise, that the album was some kind of invisible alt-rock bedrock for lots of writers, leading to slightly more actual care about post-alt-boom indie that they chose slightly more; and in any case a #6 showing suggests that the majority of writers still probably had it up toward their top 10s, and thus had a pretty similar background as you, not a "completely different" one -- I do remain sorta mystified that "this album is 5 places away from where I'd expect" qualifies as some kind of OMG WTF that's-crazy thing, since it's technically only saying that out of everything ever released in the 90s, you're being disagreed with quality-wise about a maximum of five records.

I hate to raise the pernicious spectre of "influence" but I'm gonna do it anyway... Bowie and SY's influence on subsequent music is pretty obvious. What has Radiohead's influence begotten?

I guess I just mean that thinking a top-10 record should have been #1 is not like THAT profound a difference of perspective, right?

weak, whiny male voices? just a guess

xp

I believe my reaction was WTF, not OMG WTF

Shakey:

http://images.contactmusic.com/dn/chris+martin_855_18524428_0_0_6000990_300.jpg

i can't believe people like Neutral Milk Hotel

ikr

I thought the Verve were to blame for Coldplay

my stepdad looks like david bowie but he h8s david bowie he likes radiohead

my stepdads a fool

nabisco, I see where you're coming from, but conversely

the aughties list was done in '09, at which point I'm assuming there'd be enough obvious-Kid-A-canonization fatigue that people would vote for it just that one spot lower, putting some fresher favorite ahead; I'd also guess, age-wise, that the album was some kind of invisible indie rock bedrock for lots of writers, leading to slightly more actual care about post-indie-boom blogrock that they chose slightly more

(like, hasn't Chris Martin made that very claim himself? Similar to how Oasis credits their existence to the Stone Roses, and the Roses credit their existence to the Smiths, etc. Radiohead seem outside of this lineage...)

x-post

my stepdads a fool

haha Lodger rools

ugh blogrock

Shakey, you're probably right. I just threw out the Coldplay thing because I've heard people make the comparison before, but it seems to be based on little more than some stylistic similarities: male falsetto lead vocals, "atmospheric" production, use of piano . . .

can we just go ahead and start a board called I Love Pitchfork

Brought to you by Haagen Dazs.

am i the only one confused about the fact that ok computer came out in 1997?

yeah 1997 wasn't even part of the '90s. Clinton defied congress and ruled that one into law

Haagen-Dazs is kinda overrated imo

i seem to recall pfork having an older 90s list made in 1999 that disappeared when they made the new one

the old one had loveless at #1

Haagen-Dazs is kinda overrated imo

Heresy. Ben & Jerry's is better, it must be said.

the 99 version... http://www.listsofbests.com/list/55

maybe they'll redo this one in a couple years also.

Heres the official list:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010616215501/pitchforkmedia.com/top/90s/

Ben & Jerry's is better, it must be said.

exactly, and gelato is better than both

i dont think anyone should fault them for updating that list

two relevant differences, Whiney: (a) I'm guessing the average Pitchfork writer in 03 experienced Nevermind at a much younger age than the average Pitchfork writer in 09 experienced Kid A; (b) the site's whole presence/stance is a really post-91 kind of thing, sort of a coming-off-the-alt-boom phenomenon, whereas Kid A was a lot more smack-dab at the heart of that presence/stance (and there's been less movement in it since).

I'm not arguing against Nevermind here so much as explaining why it makes perfect sense to me as a top-10-but-not-#1. I think the site's very earliest years paralleled a lot of people growing off alt-rock toward "indie" and sorta drawing lines behind them during that process, such that by 03 the writers -- younger then than now -- would have been that tiny bit less likely to rally around a 1991 alt-rock touchstone (that many of them would have loved in their early teen years) versus records that were part of a new consensus.

Daydream Nation > OK Computer > Low > Kid A

OK Computer = Low > Daydrem Nation >>>> Kid A

the original p4k 90s list was made 10 years ago by like six or seven writers for an audience of maybe 5,000 people. It has almost no relationship to the current magazine, which has gone through about three or four other lifetimes since-- hell, the 80s list is way out of step with the current pub as well, and the 70s and 90s II ones arguably are too. I'm sure if we re-did them and re-evaluated them over the next few years everyone would cry foul, but it would be more interesting and reflective of who we are, to not even get into the fact that shifting contexts etc. make lists like these malleable rather than firm anyway.

Some kind of 'records from the 60s that people liked in the 60s and then didn't in the 70s and did in a jokey way in the 80s and then dead seriously in the 90s and now we hate them' feature would be really interesting to me

guys, plz remember that Jackson Browne was taken seriously once. Tastes shift, etc.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the re-evaluation of Hall & Oates

seriously^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

most O fucking TM thing said on ILM ever

"The experience and emotions tied to listening to Kid A are like witnessing the stillborn birth of a child while simultaneously having the opportunity to see her play in the afterlife on Imax"

haha nevermind was #6 twice

i like jackson browne!

xposts

When I told my bf about this, he thought I was joking. He then asked if Huey Lewis & the News were now favored by young indie hipster types, and I said I didn't know and that I'd have to get back to him on that.

I like Jackson Browne too. Damn snarky kids!

Did anyone in this thread seriously cry foul on Pfork redoing that 90s list?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the re-evaluation of Hall & Oates

They never went away!

Every critic who defended H&O then (m coleman and xhuck to name two) still does and the big singles still get massive airplay; no one's polishing tarnished reputations here. Plus, Daryl Hall gets "avant-garde" points for his Fripp collaboration.

did they get rehabilitated at the point where the current generation of indie hipster kids had parents too young to have bought Hall & Oates top charting records?

i feel like they went away for a good long while. i also think they suck donkey balls.

^^ to put it politely

Watch out, guys, they'll chew you up.

more importantly, how much would an indie hipster pay for my parents' 45" of "Your Kiss is on My List"?

http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/h/hall-oates/album-big-bam-boom.jpg > Low > Kid A > OK Computer > Daydream Nation

Most importantly, what the fuck is an indie hipster and how do I buy one?

try craigslist

they totally went away during the 90s, sorry

keywords "fixed gear"

I was in middle school when H&O were at their most airwaves-dominant and I hated them. But sometime in the 00s they were playing on the radio and I suddenly recognized what transcendent ear candy they were, and the closer I've listened the more I've loved them since then.

Basically there was a point at which I could accept the studio magic of Steely Dan only because of their cutting/perverse/bizarre lyrics, but eventually I realized I love this kind of hyper detailed coke-fantasy sound even without any kind of 'distancing' effect.

And D Hall has a hell of a voice.

ah. so cocaine is the answer here.

I def do not partake but cannot deny that a lot of my favorite sound worlds were crafted by coke heads or speed freaks.

The points at which H&O (and Steely Dan) were uncool dwarfed their respective imperial phases; but that's a thought for another thread.

guys, plz remember that Jackson Browne was taken seriously once.

he did write two of the best songs on nico's chelsea girl

tbh if Minutemen had covered H&O on Double Nickels I would have given them a fair shake much sooner.

hahahaha

i don't think H&O were 'rehabilitated' -- i can't think of an instance of someone arguing for them in the face of certain derision -- so much as everyone looked around one one day and realized they are great and everyone loves their songs, except shitheads.

I've definitely attempted both Daydream Nation and Kid A, but I'm not sure I've ever got all the way through either. OK Computer's really good but has some dull bits. Low is really very good. So it's Low for me. Or to put it another way, I vote for the one with the tunes.

I can't help feeling that if, today, they were to compile a single list for 1970 onwards, the top four wouldn't look anything like this.

Steely Dan >> H&O >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jackson Brown

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool @ Pitchfork having a Phish album on their top anything list, totally forgot Billy Breathes was on that old list

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>+++++++=================>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"hyper detailed coke-fantasy sound"

Thank you for so neatly labelling the worst music in the world. An American friend once described Steely Dan and Hall & Oates to me as the music an LA adman would listen to in his open-top car while snorting coke off the dashboard on his way to work in 1985. He seemed to think this might be a good thing.

the softcore porn channel on cable when i was 13 always used 'maneater' to soundtrack strip routines. years afterwards whenever i heard it i'd get a sort of pavlovian semi.

steely dan + hall & oates > jackson browne * radiohead / huey lewis & the news

Thank you for so neatly labelling the worst music in the world. An American friend once described Steely Dan and Hall & Oates to me as the music an LA adman would listen to in his open-top car while snorting coke off the dashboard on his way to work in 1985. He seemed to think this might be a good thing.

You need new friends.

∑ (steely dan + hall & oates + huey lewis & the news) = 3 (crap)

the music an LA adman would listen to in his open-top car while snorting coke off the dashboard on his way to work in 1985 = hall & oates

the music an LA adman would listen to in his open-top car while snorting coke off the dashboard on his way to work in 1975 = steely dan

yeah see i don't really like steely dan either

Voted "Low" because I didn't notice "OK Computer" was in there. Consider it a misvote, although "Low" is fantastic too.
"Daydream Nation" I don't like at all, "Kid A" is OK, but a huge disappointment considering it followed "OK Computer".

Daniel exaggerating a bit about that Hall & Oates album upthread. No it isn't better than most of those, but it's still a fantastic album, and funny you should mention it as I just listened to it about an hour ago. :)

and cocaine is for douchebags

hell is for children

hell is four children

hilarious how anytime someone opens up the "omg steely dan isn't as good as indie rock why are people fronting like they are" can of worms there's always a dozen people to dogpile on.

hell is four pitchfork threads going at once

pat benatar >>>>>>>> steely dan, discuss

love is a pitchforkbattlefield

i don't think anyone has stated that steely dan isn't as good as indie rock; we have merely stated we don't like them.

sarahel otm

hell is four pitchfork threads going at once

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, October 7, 2009 2:15 PM (1 minute ago)

Britpop > Steely Dan > Indie rock

i kinda want a ilx filter that replaces ">" with "poop"

that would turn hearts into 'poop3's

that would be hilarious!

not if you were in love

The only H&O song I really love is "I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)" but good God do I love that song. Didn't really know any of their stuff prior to this decade, though -- it's entirely possible I first heard "I Can't Go for That" on an Avalanches mix.

Voted "Low" because I didn't notice "OK Computer" was in there.

lol, you had FOUR OPTIONS

^that one & "one on one" & "say it isn't so" are pretty boss imo

xpost

Daniel exaggerating a bit about that Hall & Oates album upthread. No it isn't better than most of those, but it's still a fantastic album, and funny you should mention it as I just listened to it about an hour ago. :)

To be clear, Geir's right (at least in terms of assessing my motives). I was kidding.

Big Bam Boom is a classic, tho. It really predicted how the late 80s sounded (all processed).

And Method Of Modern Love is amazing.

you people are all on cocaine

lol. I've never held a lit cigarette, much less cocaine.

Maybe I should try it . . .

sarahel and mr que, <3 basically atcha guys

SY very easily

Weezer's "Say It Isn't So" vs Hall & Oates' "Say It Isn't So"

weezer

Smoking gives you lung cancer, Daniel.

So I've heard.

Weezer?!?

Bleeeech.

nuke 'em both

lol, you had FOUR OPTIONS

I know, I know (insert some emoticon for embarrassed) but my eyes landed on "Low" and I thought, HEY! That's a great album!

Yep, "Big Bam Boom" is great. Maybe the most overlooked example of Hi-NRG pop at its best. Personally I preferred the analog synth sound of the early 80s, but "Big Bam Boom" I think uses early digital synths in a better way than most contemporary albums did. I consider it much better than "Welcome To The Pleasure Dome", for instance, which is a natural album to compare it to.

sarahel and mr que, <3 poop3 basically atcha guys

hahahahahahahaha

Fuck a Weezer in its eyehole.

∑ (steely dan + hall & oates + huey lewis & the news) = 3 (crap)

― Althus (sarahel), Wednesday, October 7, 2009 9:11 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark

what are you summing over

An ambivalent reaction to H&O makes more sense than dislike; the hooks are undeniable, Hall's vocals excellent on every level, and their band did a moderately fascinating job of integrating every trend of the day into three-minutes singles. You have to scratch beneath the surface to get at the unpleasantness -- Hall, for instance, comes off as a total asshole in just about every song.

The sound of some bands just makes my skin crawl - doesn't everyone have this? Prefab Sprout are another - smart, likeable guys I'm sure but they make me want to punch someone.

Hall, for instance, comes off as a total asshole in just about every song.

Curious to know if this would be the case if they'd never made videos.

xxxpost Just want to clarify that I emphatically agree coke is for dbags; but at least in the era 1970-1986 those dbags happened to make some amazing records.

I understand hatred for a lot of 80s-era bands, even if I don't share it.

I don't really get what's so objectionable about Hall & Oates. There were far greater examples of excess and triumphalism (which I think is the real objection to a lot of chest-thumping, self-congratulatory acts of the 80s), the hooks and harmonies are so sharp, and Hall . . . well, I guess I don't see him coming off as such an ass. I mean, he seems nice and thoughtful in interviews, and he's playing a character in all those silly 80s videos (which I cherish, BTW).

And, FWIW (not much, I know), I'm much more a rock fan than a pop fan, tho I like both.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/443608419_63193089fb.jpg

Q: Can my girlfriend and I pull off Hall and Oates for Halloween?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_s9xYMyZjZpo/SniHEsgsDQI/AAAAAAAAAGA/5dVFCz8V-Ns/s320/Hall_and_Oates.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/2i6mie0.jpg

YES

yes imo

She doesn't want to do it. :/

dump her

She looks a bit like Katie Couric -- if you don't mind drag, you could be Sarah Palin.

Thanks, pal.

I'm not saying you look like Sarah Palin, btw! But it would be an easy character to get across with a red dress, the right wig and a bunch of "you betcha"s.

She doesn't want to do it. :/

I think you mean she can't go for that

dump her

"Family Man" has some cool guitar sounds.

This poll is all about Kid A.

I wonder if the Smiths are #2 on that 80s poll.

call her bluff and grow a mustache

Oh, that's totally weird that they redid their 90s list.

Remain in Light was #2 for the 80s; Queen Is Dead at #6 (after Paul's Boutique, Doolittle, and Murmur)

Oh, that's totally weird that they redid their 90s list.

― Sundar, Wednesday, October 7, 2009 8:58 PM (2 minutes ago)
http://images-partners-tbn.google.com/images?q=tbn:62WSKuEIsfkovM:humancapitalist.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/image7.png

Hey, I don't follow Pitchfork.

Curious to know if this would be the case if they'd never made videos.

I never had MTV growing up. "Family Man" is a case in point, no? He fucks the girl, maybe gets involved me emotionally then acts horrified when he insists he's a Family Man; we're supposed to sympathize with him.

Wait, I totally don't get out of "Family Man" that he ever actually fucks her.

Dude, he's Daryl Fucking Hall.

he has a mullet.

Wait, he doesn't have an affair with the girl in Family Man. It's a flirtation that reached -- but hasn't passed -- a breaking point. That's the point of the song.

I think it's a cover song, anyway.

And yes, he has a mullet.

Holy shit!! I never knew "Family Man" was a cover!!

"The American duo Hall & Oates covered Mike Oldfield's song and it reached #6 on the US Hot 100 in June 1983."

God bless Wikipedia.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

in your face Radiohead

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3937931759_19154342f5.jpg

A disaster for everyone

Especially the overrated.

based on the first couple responses to the results i thought there was gonna be like barely any votes for Radiohead, but they still got more votes total than SY, which is bullshit imo

If you figure Radiohead fans split their votes between Kid A and OK Computer, it's a pretty competitive race between Bowie, Sonic Youth and Radiohead.

Bowie's Low is great, but it isn't heads-and-shoulders above the other poll options.

fuck a kid a, low is about 1,000,000 heads-and-shoulders above that swamp water

gay poll

hay ilm dropping in on yr weirdo fascination w/pitchfork n radiohead to lol @ pitchfork realizing their list needed rap 4 years after the fact and to observe radiohead would likely be 1mx better if they used coke rather than advil or whatever it is theyre into

70s > 80s > 90s > 00s

=

older established canon >>> newer still-forming canon

what if you are of the opinion "fuck the canon"?

then you are on the right board

No Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, no credibility.

What ever happened to Tapes 'n Tapes? :-(

They went back to where they should've been all along?

Relative obscurity?