'Marquee Moon' LP is overrated

it is a nice alb but hasn't aged too well I guess.

What's funny to me is how much it seemed back then that Verlaine was aping Patti Smith's vocal mannerisms. When I listen now, they don't really sound at all alike!

Isn't Rhino supposed to reissue the record somewheres down the pipeline?

Which is a pretty fair asessment. See No Evil is one of the most genius songs I've ever heard, the guitar work is propulsive and sinewy and intriguing and amazing. But it's great because it's a short, sharp blast. And then there's just another forty minutes of endless noodling. But that ONE SONG makes it a total classic that I can never deny.

are the songs not anthemic and guitar-dominated? I don't mean Joe Satriani gutar anthems.

BTW I do think MM is a fine album. "Venus de Milo" being my favorite track. The guitar in that one is thrilling.

Maybe a followup thread about if these classic NYC guitarists were wasted on Matthew Sweet. I say "nah."

A scorecard:

"Marquee Moon" v. "Evol" = "Evol" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Master of Puppets" = "Master" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Double Nickels on the Dime" = "Double Nickles" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Babble" = "Marquee Moon" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Bandwagonesque" = "Marquee Moon" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Entertainment" = "Entertainment" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Pink Flag" = "Pink Flag" wins

Hmm.

On the CD version the fade out is removed, but the song now has an ending, sadly.

How come no one's mention the album's highlight for me, "Elevation"? Surely I can't be the only one who likes that song, can I? For that song alone, I don't think the album can be considered overrated.

"First you creep Then you leap! Up about a hundred feet, You're in so deep Then you could write a book!"

The Strokes sound more like Television than any other band I can think of.

As for the guitars - anthemic or no, they're still fucking great.

Mes amis, I have now dropped the hefty clangers of Television=as good as literary symbolism and Television=as good as Coltrane. I am redefining the very concept of "overrated"!!

television = bettah than coltrane but who isn't eh?

torn curtain falls into the "it is named after a film" twilight zone of inevitable uselessness, no?

'The Blow Up' is prob. O/P - haven't seen any ROIR releases for ages - but a (French, I think) company called Danceteria did issue it on CD - it's not exactly a rare rec, anyway. There's a vinyl version as well.

The sound quality is just on the edge of tolerable, sadly, but parts of it are

I can cope w/that. I have a 'descension' alb after all.

I would give you a copy of some skullflower though I see what the jetlag is like. Don't know if i have any tapes at home.

Ummmmm....Ramones anyone? Talking Heads? C'mon!

ME TO FRIEND: "You wanna hear guitars fuck? You do? Well, I've got just the record for you!"

EMBARASSING CONFESSION OF THE YEAR: I masturbated to it as a teenager. Really. It's had quite a bit of influence on my sexuality, and I plan to write an essay on that soon.

Very few bands have come close to capturing this sort of synergistic brilliance. Early Treepeople, perhaps. Hot Snakes? It's a fine art, and Lloyd and Verlaine were the absolute masters of this art.

Get yourself a girlfriend, boyfriend or sex doll. You pick!

Oh, and fuck off, Mr. Que.

For chrissakes, the very name was a euphemism for the act of fornicating.

Go find a pumpkin patch.

"Marquee Moon" too long? That's impossible. On The Blow-Up, even though the sound sucks, it's 14:45 and too short. On Live At The Old Waldorf, it sounds amazing, and at 15:45, I'm still wanting more. There's a live disc in Tom Verlaine's A Miller's Tale compilation that has incredible sound, with a 13:58 version. It's not nearly long enough. The song has reached over 17 minutes, but I don't know of any recordings of it. Plenty of rockers have been inspired by John Coltrane, from The Byrds to John McLaughlin & Carlos Santana's Love, Devotion, Surrender (1972), and nothing beats "Marquee Moon." The very first chords hit that rare sweet spot that never fail to send chills up the spine. It's eerie, a little melancholy, electrifying.

Television has inspired plenty of obsessive acolytes, including The Feelies, Felt, and more recently, Sonic Youth (hear "Rain On Tin"). Yet nothing quite matches Marquee Moon's peculiar dry guitar sound and telepathic, serpentine interplay. Overrated? Fucking hogwash. Just try to find an album that surpasses what Marquee Moon accomplished.

-- Brooker Buckingham (brooker...), October 12th, 2006. (Brooker B)

OH YEAH ASSHOLE, YOUVE HEARD A TON OF MUSIC

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WInKHEhRrvM

Um, yeah, The Allman Brothers. Good example, but different. A looser mesh. I'd say Quicksilver Messenger Service and Grateful Dead, both of whom were influences on Verlaine, are better examples from that era.

Don't forget the Hampton Grease Band and the Beefheart with the Magic Band.

Luna had some incredible dual guitar moments, but obv. derivative of VU, Television, Feelies.

i came around, tho. totally love it. "friction" is an amazing song, all the individual pieces are great and they fit together so well, but there's still all this space between them. i hardly think of Tv even having "riffs."

Same here, alongside the kinky, kind of freaky solo in "Baby's On Fire" and a Dead cover of "Good Lovin'" from a show in 1970. Long, raw, bestial pleasure, that one.

-- Brooker Buckingham (brooker...), October 12th, 2006. (Brooker B)

havent heard much early TP - im sure theyre good, i was just fucking around cause yr only examples of synergistic brilliance seem randomish

thin lizzy is another good example of sweet twin lead action

don't have a Please Kill Me handy, but I can relate an anecdote I heard from an extremely reliable source…the following may not be true, but the source, who was around NYC in the early mid 70s and knew everybody in the CB's/Max diaspora, swears it is…

A very young Lloyd approaches one James Marshall Hendrix on the street one day. Says Young Lloyd "man Hendrix, you're fucking great. You're the best guitarist who ever lived! You're my idol! Can…can…can I suck your cock??"

Hendrix's response was to knock Lloyd out with one punch to the kisser.

Not trying to spread rumors or nothin'…just sharin' a funnee…

http://rateyourmusic.com/friendchart/user_is_djmartian

Funnily enough, I blind tested live a Lizzy track for two metal-intolerant friends and they confidently identified it as Television.

But, yeah, Marquee Moon? It's no 'live and dangerous'.

personally i think they do it too fast.

Leatherface in their prime could do it

this is probably just me, but the only canonical album i can think of that isn't overrated, even though it would almost have to be given the effusive praise, is pet sounds.

I have to say I grew up with this on vinyl & I prefer the fade-out version of MM to the longer one.

It has to be admitted that "Torn Curtain" does sound a little bit like the Boomtown Rats.

apart from one who lasted as far as "What I want..." the cloth-ear.

Doesn't everyone?

according to 125 + people on my favorite rym user list, Marquee Moon is currently the 3rd top ranked album of alltime
http://rateyourmusic.com/friendchart/user_is_djmartian

I reckon that is has something to do with private [favourites] and public [friends] settings

most are set to private [favourites]

200 rym list

for the 200 list, obviously when i'm logged in I can see the combined ratings of friends and favorites.

as rym chief, sharifi notes: in changes/ updates
http://tinyurl.com/y62t9h

2) Any type of release (EP, single, etc) can be bold (recommended) now.

so that probably goes for the top 200 list

notice it is titled:
Your Contacts: Top 200

most are albums though

Doesn't everyone?

not i. i got MM on vinyl about 12 years ago, when i started at college, loved it to death. didn't even know there was an extra minute or so on the CD till it got rereleased a couple of years back, and the end bit totally blows my mind (tho i see why people would prefer the fade)

er, "Little Johnny Jewel" as bonus track?

um ok.

'elevation' messes with my head every time, the jarring guitar 'thrang' after "come go to my head" - always sounds like there's a scratch on the record somehow.

Fade is on the LP and the 12" single.

Ending is on all CDs.

like "cha-cha-cha"

or with a big explosion?

unless it literally ends with a whimper.

But, there was the one time you expect it to fade and it doesn't, to a rousing crescendo, and the Moebius strip finally ends (it ran from 1977 to 1993 or thereabouts)

09:38: vocals come back in

i take your point, the fade isn't a bad idea. i don't really mind that much though -- not enough to spunk for the remaster just yet anyway.

i was a fool not to listen to this whole album after 'marquee moon' took hold

cool thread title

and yes you were but i'm glad you came around

This is basically the Beatles' "Taxman" extended to album-length.

'torn curtain' is kind of a drag tho

The Blow Up vs. Live at the Waldorf?

I'd personally go with the Waldorf set. It's vastly better recorded, and while the Blow Up might have slightly more firey playing, the sound is distant to the point that it blunts the impact of the music.

'torn curtain' is kind of a drag tho

― j., Sunday, April 6, 2014 8:10 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

00.00: song starts
08:43: spacey bit starts
09:17: spacey bit ends
09:18: drums come back in
09:31: guitars come back in
09:38: vocals come back in
10:28: end chord struck
10:40: song ends

― benrique (Enrique), Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:04 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i will always love the two nerd free birds they wrote but man i just never really dig this band. (crit bands i have tried hard to love and can't love: young marble giants, the saints, television. there are others.)

still, loving two songs by a band ain't bad. that's two more than the the cruzados or phil 'n' the blanks.

Wow...that's the first time I've seen Phil 'n' the Blanks mentioned since I picked up a copy of the Illinois Entertainer in 1987!

i don't own a single record by any of those CBgb art dudes. no hell, no t.v., no patti, no ramones, no heads. i do own a tuff darts album though. if they count. (those guys are easy to sell though which is why i never keep them. if i get the first ramones album in i play it once before i put it in the store.)

( i lied. i play "loudmouth" and then i put it out in the store.)

skot obv that oughta be 'freenerds'

kinda feel like the freenerds are t.v. urtexts that cause all their other songs to be ones in which you hear fragments and reflections of t.h.e. freenerd

wait through like respites so you can bear to ascend m.m. again

Lol I was wondering what "nerd-free birds" were

that would be skynyrd themselves i presume

The Blow Up vs. Live at the Waldorf?

― Mark, Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:17 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd personally go with the Waldorf set. It's vastly better recorded, and while the Blow Up might have slightly more firey playing, the sound is distant to the point that it blunts the impact of the music.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I really like Live at the Waldorf as an Adventure apologist because I feel like that shows that Adventure could have been nearly as classic as MM if not for such thin, brittle production, the Adventure tunes on there really shine IMO

both the blow up and waldorf are fantastic, but yeah, the waldorf is way better sound quality wise -- and it's pretty much the only document of the band that sounds that good. whenever I put it on after listening to hundreds of shitty audience tapes it's almost like a different band altogether. last time i listened to it what stood out the most is just how amazing the ficca/smith rhythm section is/was.

Live at the Waldorf

fuckin Rhino Handmade, grrrr

Live at the Old Waldorf from Amazon:

Audio CD, Limited Edition (2003) $165.00 $105.99

that's the one thing i ever got at Record Store Day that I really covet, the vinyl

man, that's dumb that the CD costs so much. every home should have one.
bugged the producer of those reissues on twitter a few weeks ago, asking if he found any other pro recordings of Television and he said he didn't :'(

it's $55 on Discogs but still, blah

xp

OP here and in the interest of full disclosure I was smoking crack in 2002

I didn't really appreciate television until I heard the eno demos of a few of the songs. The lp always sounded a bit flat to me, like something the needed but lacked the anxious energy of something like entertainment! to really bring it to life. Richard Hell's presence may have been that missing ingredient.

live at the waldorf is available for normal price from all the usual digital vendors (emusic, itunes etc) if you don't need a CD of it. And I agree it is a staggering example of what half-decent sound quality can do for a live recording

i was at the blow up show, i think. my friend made his own dumb tape of it and for weeks we thought they had a new song called "fatso fatso."

beautiful

haha, it probably would've been a hit if it was really "fatso fatso".

i think the whole new york thing probably overrated. i mean i know it is. if you want to use that word. endlessly written about anyway (jeezus you could fill books on what has been written about richard hell and other than a cool name and cool hair and one fun song i dunno man...). ohio stuff way more exciting to me in general. 70's ohio. final solution alone is my shot heard round the world and the talking heads really are milk on toast in comparison. one big fat book about the ohio bands would be great. is there one? i would never underestimate the impact of ramones or suicide debut. don't get me wrong. i'm not crazy. and i'll let other people write endless books about patti. i dig pissing in the river anyway (and the springsteen tune). (my point being how many million words have been written about television and what boils down to the songs on one album? and they weren't no rimbaud. hell ian curtis was like 15 when he died and he was one prolific motherfucker. at least there is more to go on. cool hair too.)

This has some stuff on Ohio, yeah? http://www.amazon.com/From-Velvets-Voidoids-Pre-Punk-Post-Punk/dp/0140179704

i mean all those people did LOOK really cool. i spent half my childhood staring at pictures of lisa robinson canoodling on couches with dee dee ramone and alan vega so i'm not immune to their charms.

this is great by the way. 1978. also recorded by eno, funnily enough. my pal ted put it out on vinyl:

http://www.discogs.com/Mars-Live-At-Irving-Plaza/release/3556876

x-post- Heylin's Velvets to Voidoids book does have some details on the Ohio scene(s)

yeah that clinton heylin book has a very meaty section on the Ohio scene. I need to reread that. I haven't since it was new. There needs to be a whole book just on the Ohio stuff though.

xposts

Heylin book is great imo, but yeah we could def use something like Please Kill Me for Cleveland/Akron

has there really not been a proto-punk ohio book? seems like it'd be a pretty fertile subject.
and scott is entitled to his opinion, but man, i really like television.

All NYC stuff is overrated except Television IMO

And Joseph Cornell

otm

Mars rules, not overrated.

I never liked most 70s NYC stuff either

i'm more of a miki & paul zone fan. the fast. man 2 man. love those guys.

actually the first talking heads album is hella underrated, that is a guitar heaven record. I loooove the way that thing is recorded. But that's it! That, and this birdcage here.

i dunno, the first ramones records, marquee moon/adventure, talking heads, the first hell/voidoids LP, horses ... maybe they're all old news, but that's a pretty amazing set of records from one scene imo.

ugh the talking heads

i think burning down the house is a work of genius. i love that song. other than that i like the hits okay. they are fun to sing along to in the car when i hear them on the radio.

add in first suicide record....no new york....horses...1st dolls record....being bored with reading about something isn't really a mark against the actual quality of the record

i love every last morsel of that ny stuff. that's my stuff. i am overrated.

i rate u very highly tsf

ditto, jl! i like the fast too, it goes w/o saying.

i'm trying to think of my fave 70's new york album. dolls debut is up there. that album is so much fun.

fuckin' secret treaties dog

p that or marquee moon for me

dude, BOC is like a whole 'nother level for me.

It's okay. I like a few tracks. Elevation is probably the only track I go back to.

Probably worth repeating how much of what people hear and like in that album is Richard Lloyd

imagine what all that mid-period Matthew Sweet would sound like without him. or don't.

all that sweet would be girlfriend and altered beast for me but i thought i was in it for the quine.

yeah quine rulz

i do feel like most NYC stuff is overrated. proto-punk and especially post-punk in general are overrated

and i don't care for television

it's like I don't even know you guys

Well sleeve, let me confirm that I am 100% pro-Television-is-not-overrated, but that is probably no news to you.

few things confused me as much as a young music enthusiast as robert quine (related to my parents' friend j@ne quine? -- a: y), richard hell, richard lloyd, lloyd cole, the verlaines, tom verlaine, etc

i agree that this album is somewhat overrated but the song "marquee moon" is not
also agree that someone should write a giant book about music in ohio

also i think 'entertainment!' is also overrated, i tried to listen to it a couple times but i sold it back to the record store

Your face is overrated.

i'd support a book about the ohio music scene, that'd be awesome

your city is overratted

overrated, even

http://www.globalwealthprotection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/See-No-Evil-Know-No-Evil.jpg

this album is fucking awesome and you ppl are fucking sad, nobody ever wrote a book about ohio cuz who wants to read about david thomas losing his temper w/ a white castle cashier

the eternally unrestful soul of james a. rhodes is going to haunt you in your sleep for saying that

who wants to read about david thomas losing his temper w/ a white castle cashier
goddamn this book sounds amazing

just listening to marquee moon now, this singer sucks. reminds me of the violent femmes.

http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/42/Shrug.jpg/250px-Shrug.jpg

i've listened to this album 400 million times more than marquee moon

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1798690_10152969085967137_4370108828989930519_n.jpg

i've listened to this album 500 million more times than the numbers band album

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7Lzg4768PkZVnehJkZa3Lj-DEWVKqALFwcvujbHpFVnUtIu7ghg

i always forget that my 3rd favorite band of all time FELT was always compared to television so maybe i like television more than i think. they got their name from television even. apparently.

Numbers Band is great. I have no need to defend Television, as there will always be a million people who prefer Grateful Dead or Allman Bros. or whatever to them, doesn't matter. But regarding upthread, Live at the Old Waldorf is nice, but even better sounding is a 1982 solo show that includes a great version of "Marquee Moon" included in The Miller's Tale compilation. Totally recommended.

I just read the Cheetah Chrome book last month, which has a fair amount on the super early Ohio scene, and a few months before that, Richard Hell's book. I can never read too much about the NYC 70s scene. It's hard to say it's overrated when your average non-geek music fan still have no clue who the Voidoids are, and sometimes even Television. Looking forward to seeing them for the first time in 22 or more years in a few weeks!

I definitely want to read all about Crocus Behemoth's early rants, whether in a White Castle or practice space.

my bff's mom dated a guy in the numbers band!!

yeah just between early Devo and Ubu anecdotes you've got an awesome book already.

the only time i saw dave thomas he marched the whole band offstage mid-set to yell at them.
then he got mad at the crowd and forbid any merch to be sold.

haha, yeah, the guy is a hoot! definitely has stage presence though.

haha pardon this digression but: i thought you were talking about dave thomas from wendy's, and james a rhodes (former repub governor and all around jerkwad) was an early stockholder in wendy's iirc and that's why i was NEVER allowed to eat there as a kid

this picture features a pin with a suitcase featuring the initials JAR, which was meant to imply "go away JAR" but again, the joke is kind of lost to the mist of time

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ab8dtCxJ1rzge1ho1_1280.jpg

i saw the numbers band a month or two ago. they're welcome back to nyc any time. i bet chrissie hynde must've learned her harmonica chops off that guy. the kidney brother who plays harmonica. he was pretty fierce.

i can't believe all the shitty music there is in the world and we're pitting awesome nyc mid/late 70s music against awesome mid/late 70s ohio music

come on ppl. let's uplift rock n roll. each one teach one.

yeah we could just listen to this amazing tape of television in Cleveland, 1975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNxQM8Sl1Kg
rocket from the tombs opened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZLfG_KDLA

damn that woulda been a show

if it was a shared dressing room maybe one of the biggest bunch of weirdos in one room ever

from what i've read about it, i think it was really awkward. RFTT might've broken up right after this?

i'd lay money on really awkward

but yeah, both of those sets have to be some of the better rock n roll made in the 70s. cleveland and NYC unite!

when we work together great things can happen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbVGX4r5gmE

LL that anti-JAR button is now a deliciously vexing non sequitur! I love it!

Life is v confusing with the avant-garage Dave Thomas and the burgermeister Dave Thomas and the SCTV Dave Thomas and god knows how many other dave thomases out there making art and running companies and murdering ppl & c & c

Last time I heard this was when I was browsing at the Notting Hill Book exchange, then the guy started playing a computer game halfway through so you had all of these sound effects crossed w/Guiding Light I think. Like he ws passing a judgment on it.

I need to get that Mars record.

I had a dream this was playing in a store recently

I think it was a dream. I have a distinct memory of hearing it but the store that comes to mind in association with this memory doesn't seem familiar. I'm losing it

It took me 25 years to get into this album. AND IT WAS WORTH EVERY MINUTE.

the only time i saw dave thomas he marched the whole band offstage mid-set to yell at them.
then he got mad at the crowd and forbid any merch to be sold.

― Raptain Chillips (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, April 7, 2014 4:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha, yeah, the guy is a hoot! definitely has stage presence though.

― tylerw, Monday, April 7, 2014 4:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Saw Dave twice; first time was with RFTT (with Richard Lloyd, who killed). He sat down most of the set, chugging from a bottle of Courvoisier. After the show, he personally sold CDs, still sitting on the stage. He did this to get around the venue's policy of taking 20% of all merch sales. I said something like, "I love your work" and he said, "OK. Whaddya want?"

Second time I saw him was when Pere Ubu did a live soundtrack to The Man With The X-Ray Eyes. It was pretty great, but Dave kept wildly "conducting" the rest of Ubu, who would have none of it, and completely ignored his gesticulations (e.g., he would make a dramatic "cut-off" signal, and they just kept going).

That live soundtrack to The Man With X-Ray Eyes was great. Thomas stood outside after the gig and basically just glared at people. I thought about telling him how cool it was, but he did not look interested at all.

answer to thread question: absolutely, i think this album is terribly overrated. i never got it at all. there is so much noodling, so much guitar wankery leading nowhere on it. the trackss are too long and too unimaginative. i wouldn't call it pretentious, i just find it terribly boring and uninteresting. i preferred the comeback album to "marquee moon".

i knew i had answered this before, couldn't find my post as it was a skipped message...

Well, you know, whatever floats your boat, or sinks it in this case... Patti Smith's the one I've never quite got

i really liked the feelies anyway. they must have been big television fans. i REALLY liked the feelies in the 80's. oh i know the minutemen! i don't love them in the same way i don't love television. people who really like television probably really like the minutemen too. just a guess. pretty much everyone i know and hang out with likes the minutemen a bunch. (when i was a kid i liked the project mersh ep and their van halen cover and "little man with a gun in his hand".) (i don't think i've ever made it all the way through double nickles...) (so add minutemen to young marble giants, the saints, and television when it comes to bands i have tried hard to like and never loved...)

Really dont get how this album = meandering wankery.

Everything on this album is there for a reason

yeah it's always felt extremely composed to me, not jammy

the alternate takes on the reissue are interesting because the solos are not vastly different, but different enough to a) verify that there was a bit of improvisation or trying new things in each takes and b) they really picked the right takes, the other ones just didn't have the magic of the ones on the album.

i love the minutemen but i don't love television, as mentioned. tbh even though i love double nickels a lot, i don't think i've ever listened to it all the way through. it's 80 minutes! 40+ tracks! i tend to listen to it in chunks. that doesn't negate my love for it

i never thought television was meandering wankery. maybe it would be better if it was

i love tv but don't love the minutemen. i like them; they like boc so how could you not like them? i know what you mean, the mathiness, though. i think i love tv with the same genes that make me love yes.

the bruford/ficca gene.

that's kind of the root of my problem with the television album. i have based a large part of my existence on 70's riff rock (of all stripes) and that album is just low on my list as far as that goes. i love the two nerd bird riffs a bunch (which is why the roir blow up tape is the only thing i owned for years), but in comparison to the sheer volume and wealth of amazing 70's stuff i just found it...slighter than the stuff i love? (i always liked the composed and deliberate quality the album has though. fussy even. but in the end i'll take "city slang".)

can you name a few albums we should be checking out?

haha, i think that's all i've done on here for ten years. i definitely like VU via detroit via new jersey. wonder if the feelies were starz fans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3ADSvZRa0

dunno, those riffs sound great to me. xgau isn't always otm, but i like this: "I don't ask much from life--a classic new rhythm guitar figure at medium-fast tempo like the one on "See No Evil" can keep me going for months. When the call-and-response chorus of the song that follows peaks at a perfectly timed "Huh?" I begin to act silly. And when two consecutive albums, eight songs each, offer a total of 16 unmistakable ident riffs, I apply hyperbole first and ask questions afterward."

and i think it's doubtful the feelies were starz fans? i think you can tell pretty much what the feelies are fans of from the songs they've covered over the years.

This thread inspired me to listen to Richard Lloyd's "Real Time" for the first time in years. I still really like it though it's not as good as Tom's solo stuff. I've never heard the studio versions of these songs, I assumed he was better live.

Television are super hyped though.

Peopl freak out over them. They're "good" but not great

around the 1:48 mark and after on "detroit girls" is kinda what i live for. in life. my math skills aren't very advanced though.

i really want to hear a starz cover by the feelies now.

yeah it's always felt extremely composed to me, not jammy

i once saw starz/rush/bob seger at the palladium. just sayin. after rush played this whole row of kids raised their arms and screamed "black sabbath!" and walked out on the silver bullet band.

i really like the painterly autumnal aspect of mm. it's like they're saying, hey, we're these sorta repressed aesthetes, we can't compete with the riff rockers, we'll just sit here with our legs crossed over our little jazz amps and build this here cathedral. on the one hand that's totally elitist so i can understand why the haters hate. on the other hand, unlike so many other repressed aesthetes, they did build the cathedral.

Once driving through Ohio a few years ago I heard "Marquee Moon" (the song) on an AM station. I love it anyway, but holy hell, hearing it on AM was like wandering into an alternate universe. I didn't think I could have a new perspective on a song I'd heard thousands of times at that point, but there it was.

i can imagine the shimmery part around 8:20 (?) sounding totally sublime under those circumstances.

Struggling to figure out what I want to say here. There's something unprecedented about their use of guitars. There are precedents in VU/2nd MC5 album/Modern Lovers, but it's never the focus like it is with Television. They always sound punk even in the midst of major pastoralism.

that part sounds like a burst of Fichelscher-era Popol Vuh to me (shimmery pastoral guitars, even if it's just for a tiny moment)

but i hear what i want to hear, obvs, ha

i can imagine the shimmery part around 8:20 (?) sounding totally sublime under those circumstances.

― Mayor Manuel (La Lechera), Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:21 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Indeed it did; and the pause between that and the drums' re-entrance was just, I mean, I think I was holding my breath.

And punk in the best way. Like when it mattered for a band to show that you could work with the absolute basics. And that those basics were beautiful.

Have you read interview with Verlaine in that book, Feeding Back? Interesting stuff about his approach to guitar.

No, would like to see that.

that whole book is good. verlaine's is far from the most forthcoming interview, but that's no surprise.

Believe he says something to the effect that he took a big piece of paper in the shape of a guitar neck, wrote the names of the notes and pasted it on a wall, studied it and made up his own stuff based on that instead of playing the same chord voicings he might have gotten from somewhere else.

(That was xp)
Tyler otm. Discussions are a good mix of guys talking about the creative inspirational side and the technical side. Sometimes you get one or you get the other or you get an oil and vinegar mix but here you really feel like they are talking about where the rubber meets the road.

Sorry

. that part sounds like a burst of Fichelscher-era Popol Vuh to me (shimmery pastoral guitars, even if it's just for a tiny moment)

I always think of this part as a callback to the many moments of birdsong imitation in romantic music like Mahler Delius Wagner etc where the strings get all hushed and the woodwinds imitate birdies. But it does sound like Danny too!

They always sound punk even in the midst of major pastoralism.

That's ludicrous to me. The basics need to have a component of ugliness.

The boots I heard sound a lot better - a sound which is hinted at and not really captured on the LP.

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't have said always. And maybe pastoralism isn't quite right either. I hear "Venus" and it sounds like a breakthrough, though. There's bite to the guitars and the whole thing is stark and skeletal.

Its true there is a bite at times...thinking about it, sorry I called it 'ludicrous'...more like er, interesting word choices...

that part sounds like a burst of Fichelscher-era Popol Vuh to me (shimmery pastoral guitars, even if it's just for a tiny moment)

Meanwhile, the second half of "Du tränke mich mit Deinen Küssen" (on "Das Hohelied Salomos"), when the guitars start kicking in, always reminds me of Television.