post-'exile' rolling stones POLL (studio albums)

I can't really defend it, but I love It's Only Rock and Roll. Emotional Rescue will win.

I voted 'tattoo you,' but not by much over the 5 that came before it.

"miss you" vs "start me up" for post-exile song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwu0MQrk_ec

Some Girls by a pretty far distance. just a few years ago i would have voted for Goats Head Soup but not anymore.

I listen to Emotional Rescue more than SG a lot more these days; if these were SG leftovers, gimme more, please! But they were on a roll between 1978 and 1982 -- what Rob Sheffield calls their Mall Rat Years. Undercover and the albums right after Dirty Work each boast a killer single or two. A Bigger Bang deserved the comeback plaudits -- at last, if anyone cares.

Dirty Work, though, is still the dead dog that stinks up the joint, but I think it's their best album from the period by some distance.

My own take on the subject.

honestly if I had to pick a fave from "the 1990's and beyond" it is 'Voodoo Lounge' all the way. There are some seriously great tracks on there.

but I did dig 'A Bigger Bang' quite a bit. And they featured a bunch of it on the subsequent tour .... "Infamy", "Rain Fall Down", "Oh No Not You Again"...

man, I'd love it if they had just one more in them as decent as the last one, but it seems like they just may have finally packed it in. haven't heard any news out of that camp for a few years now. Then again, it was 7 years in between 'Bridges to Babylon' and 'Bigger Bang'..

but, i mean, out of this particular group it has to be 'Goat's Head'. and sure, I love 'Emotional Rescue'. but 'Emotional Rescue' doesn't have a "Winter" or an "100 Years Ago" on it.

still might just through in a vote for 'Voodoo' though, just to keep the defense honest

THROW in a vote, that is

Photo finish! Goats Head Soup by a nose from Some Girls & Tattoo You in a dead heat

GHS and It's Only Rock and Roll are tied for their worst.

oh my challops

GHS has the okay "100 Years Ago," Keef giving us the prototype for his late eighties and nineties sleepy-time ballads on "Coming Down Again," and "Star Star." On the rest Jagger slurs his vocals as if actually enunciating syllables distracted him from Bianca. Charlie follows suit on drums.

"Star Star" is a sleepy-time ballad now?

That's not what I wrote.

darn commas

anyhoo, dismissing Mick and Mick's work on "Winter" is naked challops

Not bad, but it's no "Moonlight Mile."

challoppery
challoppage
challopisme

I'll give you It's Only Rock & Roll, Alfred, but GHS is nowhere near that shitty. 100 Years Ago is gorgeous, and so's Angie, only more so. Star Star's about as raw and charged as they ever got, and if it weren't for the lyrical sleaze probably woulda been a (minor) hit. And heartbreaker's brilliant - maybe the best piano showcase Billy Preston got with the Stones. It's not a great record, but it's far from their worst. Black & Blue and Emotional Rescue are far worse, though the latter has some (2) stunning moments.

anyhoo i'm willing to lay down 5 that Black and Blue does not win this

It's all good. On these albums several different versions of the Stones intersect, converge, and explode.

Love "Crazy Mama," "Hand of Fate" and "Memory Motel" (not defending the album).

"Hand of Fate" is in my Stones POX tbh

"Crazy Mama", "Hot Stuff", "Hand Of Fate", damn the whole thing is fine. night worth sweating over, its' a 70s Stones album, it's OK and should be owned

oh also forgot that GHS has the awesome "Can't You Hear the Music"! the last Rolling Stones psych track that they rocked until "Continental Drift" from 'Steel Wheels'

"tattoo you," mostly for the ballads side.

Would be interesting to listen to Steel Wheels again. Man did that have a truckload of hype behind it, mostly due to the strength of Keith's solo album.

personally I think 'Steel Wheels' kinda sucks. "Mixed Emotions" was a GREAT single, and "Sad Sad Sad" rules hard, but the rest is kind of eh. Except for the aforementioned "Continental Drift", which was their last gasp attempt to get freaky (they never attempted anything like it again) and of course "Slipping Away", which is the best in the quintology of the late-period Keith album closers "Sleep Tonight", "Slipping Away", "Thru and Thru", "How can I Stop", and "Infamy"

In fact, "Slipping Away" is the best of those five and maybe my fave song from ANY of the last five albums

they were on a roll between 1978 and 1982 -- what Rob Sheffield calls their Mall Rat Years.

more like HIS mall rat years, whatever that's supposed to mean. the stones music of that period seems very NYC-identified, no? anyway Goats Head Soup or Tattoo You.

I'm thinking Emotional Rescue, but wouldn't mind sticking up for Steel Wheels.

"Mixed Emotions" introduced me to the Stones, so I've still a lot of affection for it.

"Sleep Tonight" is my favorite sleepy-time Keef, thanks to Ronnie's awkward drumming, Tom Waits' piano, and the chorus of drunk geezers in the background bellowing "sleee-heeepppp!"

'Well I'm telling you they never got it right / Until they put out Undercover of the Night'

I loved Steel Wheels at the time, then descended into an indie phase in the early 90s and got rid of it. I bought it again last year---it's dirt cheap now---and while it's no masterpiece, I like a lot of the songs. Actually I think the ballads are pretty strong: I find myself singing "Hearts For Sale" a lot, and especially like the "I'm losing my willpower" part, as Mick's voice goes up a key (even though the echo on his voice probably masks cracks that would make it sound less slick); "Blinded By Love" is a cute tale and Mick's harmonies with Keith are sweet; "Almost Hear You Sigh" segues wonderfully into "Continental Drift" with the moaning vocals at the end; and "Slipping Away" is a great Keith ballad with a sublimely exhausted Mick bridge ("all I want is ecstasy").

Totally forgot about "Almost Hear You Sigh," which is beautifully constructed despite its Frankenstein nature (a leftover from Keef's solo album, rewriten by Mick with assistance from his brother Chris [!]). I like the "will you set me free" section.

GHS a classic: too many great songs for it not to be. It takes the nodding out aesthetic of Exile and harnesses it to commercial rock songs, with thrilling results: it manages to be both sloppy and precise. My theory is that if it had come in the 68-72 run. no one think twice about it being a classic - but because it comes after what is now considered the career high, and because it marks a return to the conventional rock album it gets dismissed.

Some Girls sounds terrible, even in the new remaster. Thin and cokey and horrible. I know it gets called their response to punk, but it sounds more like a provocation for punk: decadent and louche and - even for the Stones - hugely unpleasant in its view of sexuality. Like an album made by Bret Easton Ellis chaacters would sound.

Black and Blue, easy. I will never tire of it.

X post to ithappens:

My memory, from a teenage NME- centric worldview is that Exile wasn't considered a 'career high' until after Nick Kent's reconsideration in - I think - '75: up till then it had been seen as an indulgent mess. NME's 100 best albums list fr'instance, had Beggars/ Let it Bleed/ YaYas and Sticky Fingers but not Exile.

Whereas GHS was thought of as a return to form.....

That list was also in '75 BTW

GHS barely over Some Girls. Though "shattered" and "miss you" are better than "Angie" and "doo doo doo doo (heartbreaker)"; but "winter", "can you hear the music", and "star star" are better than anything else on some girls. As an aside, some girls' title track is the only other song on either of these albums that's any good except maybe "far away eyes," which is almost good but comes across as too much of a piss-take.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I can't really defend it, but I love It's Only Rock and Roll. Emotional Rescue will win.

― Mark, Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:05 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude really missed an opportunity to say "I know, it's only It's Only Rock and Roll but I like it"

It seems no one will agree on what's their best throwaway album.

I've probably listened to Black and Blue more than any other Stones album besides Exile , so that one.

I'm happy to vote for A Bigger Bang. That was a surprisingly great record. Mick Jagger at his least annoying.

Agreed. We've endured so many COMEBACK LOOKOUT albums that when they actually made a no-frills album it got ignored.

Thats what I voted for too.

Fingerprint File is cool druggy paranoid song on It's Only Rock and Roll. It would fit good on a mix with stuff like Neil Young's Revolution Blues.

i don't own a thing after Undercover, so barring those i think my least favorite is B&B. that's not to say I don't like it, i just really enjoy all of these others so much. i love IORAR, i love ER love Undercover. and both SG & TY are stone cold classics.

'A Bigger Bang' certainly wasn't ignored here. Bought it the day it came out and loved it. Really enjoyed seeing them do "Rough Justice", "Oh No Not You Again", "Rain Fall Down" and "Infamy" on the tour too. would love to see them make just ONE more equally fine album before calling it day...

but, i didn't vote for it. voted 'Voodoo Lounge'

Emotional Rescue the song is possibly the best song they ever made.

any vote for anything other than "some girls" is posing hard

nah, 'Some Girls' blows .. it has the execrable "Beast of Burdon" on it.. christ what a horrible song, plus "Far Away Eyes" ... god fucking no .. 'Emotional Rescue' is twice the album that 'Some Girls' wanted to be

stormy you are posing

"far away eyes" is rad, "shattered" > anything on "emotional rescue" & you know it, plus "miss you," on bended knee beggeing you not to pose in re: "miss you," only one of the best singles of the 70s, add on "when the whip comes down" and "respectable" and you have an album that flays emotional rescue every day without even breaking a sweat

srsly the only song on emotional rescue that can even stand in with some girls' peaks is "hang fire" & it's audibly an outtake

hang fire = tattoo you, which also cold smokes emotional rescue + = the only post-exile stones lp that can even begin to consider hanging with some girls.

I probably agree w/ "Shattered", that's an incredible single, as great as anything from the 60s, including "Satisfaction"...

I dunno, tho, the rest of it...

I will never like "Beast of Burden", that's just a hang up i guess. I thought "Far Away Eyes" was cute the first time I heard it, but now... ? "Miss You" is so goddman overplayed that all of the joy has been taken out of it. god, now I *am* sounding like Alfred Soto and i hate that guy

look, i just think that this album got slightly overrated due to the context, you know, Stones got a little bloated and diffuse, came back with a winning "punky"/"disco" album .. and i dig it!! I am a Stones nutcase. I just don't ever really pull this one out anymore. I'll tell you what: "When The Whip Comes Down" and "Before They Make Me Run" are probably the tracks that would push this album to #1 for me.

And honestly that live version of "When The Whip Comes down" on that 'Sucking In the 70's' LP is FEROCIOUS, maybe the most PUNK you EVER hear this band sound, it is insane. so yeah, there is tons of love here for 'Some Girls'. Ok, sure, you are right J0hn, it's better than 'Emotional Rescue'.

but it might not be better than 'Voodoo Lounge' .. ;)

some girls

I like most of these a lot, all to some degree, so picking Black and Blue for sentimental reasons (and Hand of Fat!)

who will win in this week's LORD OF CHALLOPS...?

serious Hand of Fat! lolz

Hahaha yes!

Not that it needs to mean anything per se, but Neil/Jennifer RTX's fav Stones fullstop was Goat's Head Soup

UNDERCOVER

I'd rank them:

Some Girls
Emotional Rescue
Dirty Work
Tattoo You
A Bigger Bang
Voodoo Lounge
Steel Wheels
Black and Blue
Goats Head Soup
It's Only Rock and Roll
Bridges to Babylon

"Miss You" is so goddman overplayed that all of the joy has been taken out of it. god, now I *am* sounding like Alfred Soto and i hate that guy

I'd never write anything this lame or absurd.

Tattoo You

I do love Emotional Rescue though

J0hn ... I find Some Girls almost unlistenably unpleasant. Makes me shudder with disgust every time I hear it. It's not like the Stones' songs ever made them sound like "nice" people, but on Some Girls they sound like people I'd move house to avoid, so regardless of what the music sounds like - and I honestly don't think it's a patch on GHS – I could never embrace it.

But Keef is so cute!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

poor bridges : /

some Puerto Rican girls just dyiiiin to meetchoo

pretty good, but i would've put black n blue before emotional rescue--i listened to only r n r again cuz of this poll and it ain't holding up so good (i am starting to rethink never having listened to anything post-tattoo you!)

i like 'some girls' ok but i hate the production

this seems pretty fair except how did steel wheels get a vote?

someone who correctly thought it was marginally better than GHS.

Each time I put on Goats Head Soup I'm prepared to love it---it came right after Exile so how can it be weak? The album cover is great! "Dancing with Mr. D" is a nice opener...and then I lose focus until "Star Star". "Angie" is ok, but it's missing instrumental hooks (the vocal is fine, though not hollow enough for the album's vibe). Maybe one day the album will click for me, but I'd def. rather listen to Steel Wheels right now.

if you're not feeling winter there's not a lot i can do for you

GHS is patchy, but it's got a handful of classic trax. was unfair to it up above, cuz it's as close to great as tattoo you. maybe closer.

"Winter" is a good song but it sounds like a demo to me: the acoustic strum throughout the verses is steady and unchanging enough to be safely described as a drone (it's Jagger on guitar evidently). Taylor's leads are nice, but they're just decoration, like Jagger's vocal flourishes. The song is built around the drony guitar strum and a steady rhythm section, and it's not enough to keep my attention focused.

this seems pretty fair except how did steel wheels get a vote?

That was me. "Slipping Away" is one of my fave Stones songs (plus I saw them on the Steel Wheels tour which was tremendous)

[i]The song is built around the drony guitar strum and a steady rhythm section, and it's not enough to keep my attention focused.[i]

See, this is my problems with this period in their career: good songs lacking concentration ("Winter," "Heartbreaker"), or terrible songs their handlers were too chicken shit to talk them out of recording ("Dancing with Mr D," "Time Waits For No One"). Gimme throwaways like "Summer Romance," "Neighbors," "Far Away Eyes" and "Let Me Go" from the mall-rat period.

I can remember the first four you mention, and maybe the chorus of Summer Romance as far as the second four go. And it's a stupid chorus anyway.

Ha! The Stones had a mall-rat period? Does this imply one could find Ron Wood in the food court? Was this Mick's Foot Locker phase?

For the record, we may consider "Neighbours" a throwaway, but I don't think the band does. It's in the 1981 Let's Spend the Night Together film (ok, touring the recent album)and also on Live Licks!

"Throwaway" is a compliment!

Ronnie loves Sbarro's calzones.

True, the Stones, especially, were very good at the throwaway. (And a very good Mick Jagger solo single with Jeff Beck waking up.)

Will note Ronnie's love for the calzone.

I saw them do "Neighbors" when the played Comiskey Park on the '40 Licks' tour (as part of the standard 3-song "mini-set" on the small stage.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNP-x94-SE

I am hesitant to cast light on this, for fear that it gets taken down, but it just appeared on you tube and it is incredible...the robert frank super-8 footage used to make the cover photos for Exile on Main Street.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMuL28y0uP8&feature=related

here is the same, perhaps a little bit more, in a different sequence

that's dope~

whoah

wow that is terrific

Haven't read this thread carefully, looking forward to clicking on the youtubes. Just came to say that I recently started this book Under Their Thumb about a guy who spent his whole life writing a Rolling Stones newsletter and so far it seems pretty good, the beginning definitely does a good job of conveying some kind of NYC in the 80s vibe.

one of my fave stones-related tracks from the 90's was actually a ron wood solo song. can't remember the title. maybe slide on this is the great lost stones album. my friend larry lotto used to play me steel wheels b-sides and other 90's rarities (he was a fanatic) and some of THAT stuff was really good. like, bluesy jams and stuff.

Very cool footage. I've read they're preparing a deluxe reissue of Exile. Maybe this is part of the unearthing.

Re: Steel Wheels b-sides. I remember a diner that had "Cook Cook Blues" on the jukebox. Think that fell under the bluesy jam type stuff.

I just checked my "Rock in a Hard Place" 45 single and, yes, I can confirm the existence of "Cook Cook Blues."

Very cool footage. I've read they're preparing a deluxe reissue of Exile. Maybe this is part of the unearthing.

I wouldn't get your hopes up...if it is anything like the get your ya-ya's out reissue, it will be another ripoff. i don't know how in the hell that footage got out, but it will probably disappear mighty quick. Robert Frank's people don't tolerate stuff out in the world like that

Happy Birthday, Keith.

yeah, "Cook Cook Blues" was good, but there was another one, was it "Happy Man Blues" ... no, i got it "Fancy Man Blues". B-side to 'Mixed Emotions' I believe. and I don't either of those have ever been released on CD. So cool, always reminds me how the best things from 'Dirty Work' were the 30-second Ian Stewart boogie-woogie piano piece and "Had It With You". Were those B-sides on that 'Rarities' thing that came out a few years ago? I don't think they were. Man, was THAT ever a botched release.

OK, this book Under Their Thumb is really pretty boring. The best part is when Ron Wood's wife tells the guy "If you're the ghostwriter, then why aren't you invisible?"

Having been listening mostly to post-Exile Stones today, I've begun to reach the conclusion that while pre-Beggars Banquet Stones released classic single after classic single, and several worthy deep cuts, in terms of albums and quality of deep cuts I actually prefer post-1972 Stones to pre-1968 Stones.

Some Girls > Goats Head Soup > Tattoo You > A Bigger Bang > It's Only Rock'n'Roll > Black and Blue > Steel Wheels > Bridges To Babylon > Voodoo Lounge > Undercover > Emotional Rescue > Dirty Work

Goats head soup is better than some girls

The difference in quality between Some Girls and Goats Head Soup is tiny compared to, say, the difference in quality between Tattoo You and Undercover.

Goats head soup is better than some girls

u a crazy

goats head soup is better than beggars banquet

how about that

Bridges to Babylon is their worst album.

i just really like goats head soup (xp). i understand that it is sort of corny in its decadence at parts, which precludes it from being placed among the top tier stones albums, but songs like winter and doo doo doo doo (heartbreaker) rank among my favorite stones songs. the latter is just too over the top not to love

goats head soup is better than beggars banquet

― Agent Zero (Treeship), Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I kinda agree - I mean, I don't know about better, but I listen to Goats Head Soup far more.

well it's definitely not better but GHS is probably underrated bc it's the first in a string of not-classic stones albums. that doesn't mean it's not good.

bridges to babylon is one i haven't returned to after hearing a few tracks but i do remember that 'saint of me' was all right. maybe.

never heard a bigger bang but i think i should?

Yes. Mick 'n' Keith working with Metro Boomin. Sia helps with songwriting

Yeah, I strongly recommend A Bigger Bang - for me it's by far the best thing they've done post-Tattoo You!

sweet neocon was interesting. on first glance it seems pretty damning -- saying that bush's wars were, straight up, for profit. but then i listened to an interview with mick where he said the genesis for that song was an argument he had with his "conservative friends" at a dinner party. like it was all a bit of playful banter.

i think the stones are a band whose peak was so high that of course everything else might seem like a disappointment but one of the pleasures of a band so skilled and with such a massive catalog after their peak is that there are plenty of treasures waiting to be discovered. which is where i've been at with 21st century neil young lately, too.

If Goat's Head Soup is one of the best later Stones' albums then I'm glad I've never bothered listening to any of the others.

I love 'One Hit (To The Body)', 'Where The Boys Go', 'She's So Cold' and even 'Emotional Rescue' has grown on me a lot recently, but otherwise Emotional Rescue and Dirty Work are two of the weakest Stones albums for me. I find Undercover to be slightly better, but only just. Emotional Rescue particularly sounds like an immense dip, sandwiched as it is between Some Girls and Tattoo You.

sooner or later you people will love Dirty Work as much as I do.

Emotional Rescue is a degree less wonderful than SG. "Summer Romance" is among my favorites of the three-guitar attack -- and so snotty. "Down in the Hole," "Indian Girl," and the title track are the only duds.

Side one of Goats Head Soup is an incredible side of vinyl, IMO... side two isn't as strong, but it has 'Winter', 'Star Star' and the masterful 'Can You Hear The Music' on it.

star star is hilarious

What side has that dreadful dreary dirge of junkie self-pity vomited up by Keith? It really irritates me that all the songs are too long, like every single one of them!

side 1 has "coming down again"

That's the one. I suppose I'm not much of a Stones fan really. That's probably what it is.

a summer romance?

Oh god, 'Indian Girl' is fucking woeful... it's undoubtedly one of several tracks that I would erase from their discography completely if I could. 'Might As Well Get Juiced' is another.

I've tried and tried and tried with Dirty Work... a lot has been made of the fact that Mick & Keith weren't getting on, and one of the main criticisms of the record tends to be the production, but I personally don't have any problems with the production of the record or the performances on the record. Of course, any record ever made is going to feature some production hallmarks that pin it down to the period when it was made, but I don't think Dirty Work sounds over-produced or over-worked, and for all the talk of Jagger apparently being absent or focusing on his solo career, he still performs really well on the album. For me, it boils down to the songs themselves, which don't connect with me for the most part.

The sleeve of Dirty Work is actually a bit of a red herring - as much as the sleeve is very much "of its time" in the worst way imaginable, it doesn't reflect the content of the record at all.

"Hold Back," "Winning Ugly," "Dirty Work" and "One Hit" are among his best lyrics.

I don't think Dirty Work sounds over-produced or over-worked

It's got obviously stapled bits, like the codas of "One Hit" and "Hold Back" where the guitar crosstalk is fierce but doesn't cohere (fine with me), but, no, I don't mind the sequencers on "Back to Zero." Nice bridge too.

Something about "Winning Ugly" seems...off. It's grown on me (I used to hate it), but I'm 99% sure that's Anton Fig and not Charlie.

probably is!

I know it doesn't fit in this topic, but I also disagree when people say that the Stones couldn't do psychedelia very well... they could when they were focused enough! It's often said that Their Satanic Majesties Request was an attempt to copy Sgt. Pepper's..., but they don't really sound anything like each other. Satanic Majesties is a far more unhinged, darker and - dare I say it - uncommercial record.

One thing that's been amusing me recently is watching press conferences on Youtube for Stones tours from Steel Wheels onwards. Jagger really hates the "is this going to be your last tour?" question, doesn't he? Hehehehehe!

SHE GOTTA MIIIIIIIIND OF HER OWN
AND SHE UUUUUUUUSE IT WEEEEEEELL
MIGHTY FINE
SHE'S ONE OF A KIND

jagger had some mighty fine outfits throughout the 80s

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltt6y0q1kn1qaso2q.gif

When t-shirts finally have gif capacity, I want this one.

Even better:

https://38.media.tumblr.com/1f6e557743adc25be0fafd478ccecb96/tumblr_n3obhhbh4H1ttrl9jo1_400.gif

lol

I love that

Also Tattoo You is the right answer. Stones at their sexiest.

I also love the songs from these post-Exile albums no one ever seems to talk about (like "1000 Years Ago" from GHS and "Tops" from TY)

Isn't "Heaven" one of the only Stones songs on which Mick plays guitar or something?

Oops I meant "Winter" (and also meant "100 Year Ago")

Err, "YearS." I need some coffee

Nope. Jagger's first guitar appearance on a Stones album is Sticky Fingers. By Some Girls he was playing a lot of electric rhythm, and he's gotten good enough that he sounds like Keith on latter-day albums.

Interesting! I definitely did not know that.

What makes stuff like "When The Whip Comes Down," "Respectable," and "Lies" and ER's "Summer Romance" is the three-guitar sound.

A friend who saw them in '78 said it was still pretty weird for him to get around seeing Mick with an electric guitar.

he's gotten good enough that he sounds like Keith on latter-day albums.

Yeah, it's kind of neat, actually, how much it subverts preconceptions, even across the band's entire career. Like "Brown Sugar," which couldn't be any more Keith-y, was written mostly by Jagger, whereas "Ruby Tuesday," which one would presume to be Mick, is actually pretty much written all by Keith.

A lot of the riff rockers like "Don't Stop" and "Rough Justice" and "She Was Hot" are Mick's.

I thought "Ruby Tuesday" was about the only Brian Jones credit?

Nope. Jagger's first guitar appearance on a Stones album is Sticky Fingers. By Some Girls he was playing a lot of electric rhythm, and he's gotten good enough that he sounds like Keith on latter-day albums.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 19, 2016 10:46 AM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And Keith doesn't even play on "Sway" or "Moonlight Mile" -- interesting that he's not missed on two of their best songs.

Yeah -- "Sway" is Jagger's first electric rhythm appearance. No wonder Mick Taylor got embittered.

it was still pretty weird for him to get around seeing Mick with an electric guitar.

yeah, I know he's been playing it for a while but I always find it wrong when I see him performing with a guitar !

Surely the guitar would get in the way of Mick pretending to be a chicken.

Re: "Ruby" (fwiw):

Multi-instrumentalist Brian Jones played recorder, and the double bass was played jointly by bassist Bill Wyman (pressing the strings against the fingerboard) and Keith Richards (bowing the strings). According to Keith Richards in a 1971 Rolling Stone interview, he wrote the song in a Los Angeles hotel room in early 1966 about a groupie he knew;[1]

I think by the '70s and certainly peak drugs, I'm not sure how many of the band members were ever in the same room at the same time. Obviously "Exile" is this to the extreme, but I can totally imagine Keith being gone or out of commission when things needed to be done and Mick stepping in to do some riffing. And frankly, with open G tuning, any dummy could pull off a lot of Stones riffs.

I'm listening to a couple of Faces albums at the moment, and I'm just wondering what the actual fuck happened to Ronnie Wood when he joined the Stones? His playing with the Faces is remarkable, and prolific songwriting credits all over the place. As soon as he joined the Stones, not only did his songwriting credits mostly disappear, but his playing blends so far in with Jagger's and Richard's it almost becomes anonymous. I know that Jagger/Richards were always jerks regarding songwriting credits, but oftentimes it feels like Wood may as well not be even playing on those Stones records, whereas his presence is felt all over the Faces stuff. I dunno, there's no doubt in my mind that joining the Stones was a lucrative move for Wood, but I honestly think that creatively it was probably not his finest move. Unlike Jones and Taylor, who both tried their damndest to put their stamp on the material they played with the Stones, Wood seems content to blend in... which is a shame, because he's probably the best guitarist in the band. Actually, I'd go as far as saying that Richards has never been the best guitarist in the Stones at any point.

see: Joe Walsh

I think they were absolute jerks to Bill Wyman, too... not just over the 'Jumpin' Jack Flash' thing, but the way they often under-utilised him on studio recordings. There's so many bass parts on Stones records that aren't even played by Bill, but by Keith or even Mick Taylor! It's no surprise to me that Wyman originally was going to leave circa 1974 when Taylor did. Factor in the way they treated Brian Jones and often replaced Charlie Watts with Jimmy Miller or other session players and it begs the question: "were this band ever really a unit?" ... Oh god, and the way that Ian Stewart was part of the band but not at the same time. The Beatles split may have been a nasty one, but my god were they far more of a unit.

"but oftentimes it feels like Wood may as well not be even playing on those Stones records, whereas his presence is felt all over the Faces stuff."

I feel you, but I think that he plays the overwhelming majority of the guitar solos on every record from Some Girls forward—someone can confirm this surely—which isn't to say that they are at all distinctive, and certainly he's nowhere near Mick taylor.

he will always defer to Keith: I wonder if as a guy just a few years younger than Keith, he Idolized him around '64, like "I could be like that guy if I was in the right place and time" and it was almost overwhelming to be his friend and then bandmate. so he probly knows that his solos aren't supposed to differ from what KR would want or draw undue attention. whereas he was the only guitar player in the Faces, which also had a deeper songwriting bench and was thus far more egalitarian: I think everyone other than Kenny got their tunes on the records. I wonder if Bill W. ever said "hey lads, I have this songs 'Je suis un Rock star.'"

Actually, I'd go as far as saying that Richards has never been the best guitarist in the Stones at any point

He was essentially the only guitar player in the Stones when they recorded Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed, and those are pretty good albums

It's true: Wood plays most of the solos from SG on. And you can hear the difference. He and Richards may blur as rhythm guitarists, but I can hear the difference in lead.

He was essentially the only guitar player in the Stones when they recorded Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed, and those are pretty good albums

― Josefa, Tuesday, February 23, 2016 1:08 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Brian Jones was still a member of the band during Beggars Banquet and during the first sessions for Let It Bleed - granted, he may have not done very much, but he was still the superior guitarist.

Brian Jones played guitar on one track on Beggars Banquet and zero tracks on Let It Bleed. The idea that he was better than Keith at that point is based on what?

It's based on:

1. The fact that he was in the band

and

2. He was a better guitarist than Keith Richards

That he hardly played guitar on those albums is a moot point.

Well, yeah, no one disputes you, Turrican, but "No Expectations" is the only one track on which he plays ("something really worth doing," Jagger said in 1995).

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but there seems to be this implication here that because Brian Jones hardly played guitar on those albums meant he'd, I dunno, forgotten how to play, which seems incredibly daft. Maybe he just couldn't be arsed or wasn't bothered, which seems far more likely. Jones was fired June '69 and Taylor was hired July '69, so yeah, I guess Keith was the best guitarist in the Stones for a month in a career spanning over 50 years.

Well I dispute you. What did Brian Jones ever play that was as good as Keith on "Sympathy for the Devil" or "Gimme Shelter" or "Stray Cat Blues" or "Jumpin' Jack Flash" ?

I seem to recall part of Jones' problem was the hand he broke (trying to hit Anita Pallenberg) didn't heal correctly, and it was easier for him to play other instruments (hence the sitar on "Street Fighting Man" and the autoharp on "You Got The Silver").

His searing, blistering, distorted-as-fuck and downright thrilling playing on 'I Wanna Be Your Man' alone creams all of those. Granted, 'Gimme Shelter' has a fine intro, but the only one of those songs that has a riff that matches Brian's on 'The Last Time' is 'Jumpin' Jack Flash', and Wyman wrote that. It gets even better when Taylor enters the picture... could Keith have handled those beautiful, lyrical solos that Taylor plays on 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking' and 'Time Waits For No One'? Nope!

Jagger in 1995:

Q: What did he have talent for?

A: He was a guitar player, and he also diverted his talent on other instruments. His original instrument was the clarinet. So he played harmonica because he was familiar with wind instruments.

Q: Did he give the band a sound?

A: Yes. He played the slide guitar at a time when no one really played it. He played in the style of Elmore James, and he had this very lyrical touch. He evolved into more of an experimental musician, but he lost touch with the guitar, and always as a musician you must have one thing you do well. He dabbled too much.

and about "No Expectations":

Q: It's got that wonderful steel guitar part.

A: That's Brian playing. We were sitting around in a circle on the floor, singing and playing, recording with open mikes. That was the last time I remember Brian really being totally involved in something that was really worth doing. He was there with everyone else. It's funny how you remember – but that was the last moment I remember him doing that, because he had just lost interest in everything.

Well, I disagree with Jagger that Jones "dabbled too much" with playing other instruments. I don't particularly see anything wrong with a musician keeping himself interested by trying and/or learning other instruments. By that logic, I guess Paul McCartney also "dabbled too much"

eh it's clear what he's saying: Jones lost interest in the guitar, and it's true that his presence wanes on those early records. Again, no one here's arguing with you that Jones' guitar was essential to the early part of the band. You didn't even mention "She Said Yeah"!

*wanes on those late records

Even when he was "dabbling" with other instruments, he was still making highly essential contributions to other tracks that wouldn't have been anywhere near the same without them. Sitar on 'Paint It Black', marimba on 'Under My Thumb', dulcimer on 'Lady Jane', the mellotron horns on 'She's a Rainbow', the eerie strings on '2000 Light Years From Home' and 'We Love You' etc. He was undoubtedly the most versatile musician the Stones ever had.

yes

On the whole, though, I generally prefer the Mick Taylor era over the Brian Jones era. Taylor's not only a sublime guitarist, but I have a feeling that he was more involved with the material on the albums he was involved in than Jagger/Richards are willing to let on.

ahh, the "jann has his head further up Mick's ass than ever before" interview!

That same issue, the review of Beatles anthology 1 came out (must have been decurtis or fricke). memory serves It was not the lead review, but a down page lead deep into the section. I wondered what that was about… were he and yoko on the outs at the time?

I think its well documented that Taylor wrote many songs with Jagger when Keith was famously although not entirely indisposed, and those guys had to be venal/cheap, which had a lot to do with him leaving. Off the top: "moonlight mile" "Sway" "Time Waits…"

brian jones is def the stone who intrigues me most, such a weird and melancholy figure. i reread stanley booth's book recently and the stuff about jones in there is heartbreaking.

You didn't even mention "She Said Yeah"!

Isn't that Keith playing the solo? On that '65 US TV clip that's on youtube Keith seems to be miming it, at least.

Not to beat a dead horse though.. I acknowledge that Brian was great on all those other instruments

apparently brian did a solo album of sorts, the soundtrack to this film, but it never got a proper release:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Degree_of_Murder

this thread got me thinking (and this here may not be the best place for the following)… Jones, Taylor and Wood are the designated soloists…yet I can't find a comprehensive listing of Keith's solos on the Stones records on the innuhnet…We know he's the primary dude on BB and LIB, but there have to be enough solos on other records to warrant a list of, like, what, 20 or so? It almost seems like he played bass more than he played solos… anybody know of such a list?

according to Joe Gore, whom no one can dispute knows his shit, it's far from settled that he played the "Sympathy" solo, which otherwise would probly rate as his greatest…it indeed doesn't sound like anything else he ever played…

http://www.seymourduncan.com/tonefiend/guitar/another-%E2%80%9960s-rock-mystery/

I've usually found this reliable: http://www.timeisonourside.com/track83-01.html

Been on a massive Rolling Stones kick lately as a result of 1) Alfred's Top 45 that STE linked to on the Twitter (Agree on Moonlight Mile 100%, but no Tumblin' Dice?) and 2) 'Worried About You' coming up on shuffle and taking over my life.

Love this poll-I'm super partial to the Mick Taylor years, and 'Winter' is probably my favorite track, so I guess I'm team Goat's Head Soup.

same here

some girls gets docked for "far away eyes"

thanks!

Here's the list.

good list, alfred

I kinda can't see Down in the Hole as a dud. That is one tune that connected with me in recent listens to that record. It's kind of a throw back to a Beggars Banquet blues except it's about post war German girls and the R&B being played in the clubs to the GI's. It's a blues that takes it's history of pain in a unique direction to me. I think in hindsight, it's kind of an interesting tune when you consider the Beatles also kind of made their bones playing to the same audiences in Hamburg. Jagger's harp playing is quite good on that track too, it seems an honest blues tune on shit they could perhaps relate. It's also kinda as close as late period Stones might get that 'Rain Dogs' feeling in a studio recording, if that makes sense.

....and here's my seventies list.