So, would you download Rage Against The Machine to make it Number One this week? (An X factor themed thread)

You know, Facebook page/group, 400,000 members, um.. could this happen?

Simon Cowell seems displeased, which seems to have fed the fire.

Tedious despicable student japery. With a bit of luck Zack de la Rocha will publically call for people to stop being twats.

But there's not exactly a successful history of nobheads/Radio 1 DJs trying to game the chart like this so I doubt anything will happen.

See also: successful Facebook campaigns to Bun Dem Paedophiles, Make Jedward Prime Minister etc etc

It's been pointed out elsewhere, but Rage Against the Machine = Sony/BMG, and X-Factor/Simon Cowell = Sony/BMG... the man wins every time, silly student japers!

also rage against the machine suck

"Killing in the Name" is currently number one on iTunes, with Lady GaGa #2 and Joe #3. But then people spending £4 on the one single Tesco stock all year is more X Factor winner territory, so they won't be too worried.

But there's not exactly a successful history of nobheads/Radio 1 DJs trying to game the chart like this so I doubt anything will happen.

I remember a half-assed attempt by Chris Moyles to get "Honey to the B" to enter on downloads, which seemed to succeed (number 17 I think), but the higher-up positions are another story, I guess.

group is actually 700,000+ members

i will be surprised if this does not succeed

but Rage Against the Machine = Sony/BMG, and X-Factor/Simon Cowell = Sony/BMG... the man wins every time, silly student japers!

no-one actually gives a fuck about this, they just like the whole 'let's make a difference to something we actually understand and can be amused by instead of actual political causes' thing. and 'fuck off cowell' yes.

Here's the quote, nicked from NME News:

"If there's a campaign, and I think the campaign's aimed directly at me, it's stupid," he said in a press conference in London today (10), reports The Independent.

Cowell went on to suggest that the campaign was unfairly being detrimental to the contestants in the show rather than harming him. "Me having a Number One record at Christmas is not going to change my life particularly," he said. "It does however change these guys' lives and we put this opportunity there so that the winner of The X Factor gets the chance of having a big hit record.

"I think it's quite a cynical campaign geared at me which is actually going to spoil the party for these three (contestants). I also think it's incredibly dismissive of the people who watch and enjoy the show… to treat our audiences as if they're stupid and I don't like that."

group is actually 700,000+ members

i will be surprised if this does not succeed

this does not automatically translate to 700,000+ sales though

It's not "cynical" but duh it's totally about being dismissive of people who like the show. Like RatM have got 700,000 fans in the UK. So this is nicely dismissive of them too, really, in the same way that the tossers who voted lol Rick Astley for the MTV Video Awards or whatever it was didn't give a toss about him or his music. Good work all round.

it's just a bit of fun

Like those Vodafone ads

Like RatM have got 700,000 fans in the UK

If you included ppl who liked them when they were younger and are ripe for a wee nostalgia trip that doesn't seem like too outlandish a figure

I'd say it seems quite low.

this does not automatically translate to 700,000+ sales though

never said it did, but even if a tenth of the group's members buy it i would've thought that would be enough for a decent chart placing even at this time of year. i would expect at least a third of the people on the group to buy it tho, and a few more who probably feel more embarrassed about joining such an fb group than actually buying the song

From my understanding of record sales I do think 700,000's a mad figure.

But y'know, get enough beer in me and I'll go nuts to "Killing in the Name". It's not about the respective merits of the records, which is what gets my back up about this.

i remember when the song was first played on the Top 40 show having entered the charts, they failed to bleep out the "fuck"s.

If (big if) this looks close to happening, bet you there will be a disqualification on some technicality...

Cowell could buy thousands of copies so that it gets dq'd for irregular sales pattern

Wouldn't put it past him.

alt: He obtains the rights and withdraws it.

Or, actually, sets it up on itunes as a free download, thereby disqualifying it.

In whose interest (and arguably it isn't in Cowell's interest) would the chart be "fixed"? I mean come on.

Singles sales in and of themselves aren't a big deal. Cowell must be quite happy that this story is generating interest for X Factor when for the last few years it's been so obvious what wd be number 1. As has been noted elsewhere, Joe doesn't seem that likely to succeed as a chart pop star anyway, so big whoop if he goes in at number 2. The publicity will be more immense than ever.

Treating this whole thing as some kind of low-brainer Culture Wars event is what brings the depression. It reminds me of being 14 and sneering at the kids who like all that chart shit. The RatM campaign is that, plus Flashmob mentality. I'm siding with the people who just wanna buy a song they like, not STICK IT TO THE MAN by buying his product.

They should do an X-Factor special where Cowell and Zach De La Rocha sit in a vat of money laughing and masturbating

At least last years "protest" resulted in LenCohen getting even more money...

xpost

Trying to work Susan Boyle in there somewehre but Not Suitable for Brain tbh

I enjoy Leonard Cohen's work but feel no concern for whether he gets more money for his accountant to spunk up the wall while Len's playing at monks.

The dude running the "HMHB for Xmas number 2" group doesn't seem to realise that none of the 200-odd people in that group are actually going to bother buying a HMHB Mp3

this does not automatically translate to 700,000+ sales though

folks seem to be buying multiple copies. which seems a tad excessive.

one of the two facebook friends o'mine who have joined the group is not a student japery-type dude at all. i think he's a floor manager at tk maxx. 'killing in the name of' is the type of shit we used to blast, so anyway i think it'd be not unamusing if ratm won.

t's not about the respective merits of the records, which is what gets my back up about this.

sez who?

i was agin lenny winning because that song is a fucking downer i don't want on my tv.

In whose interest (and arguably it isn't in Cowell's interest) would the chart be "fixed"? I mean come on.
Singles sales in and of themselves aren't a big deal.

i think you underestimate how much Cowell does give a shit about being #1. look at Westlife - everything was engineered around them trying to break The Beatles record, at a time where it was still possible to have done this. they had to be the first official downloads chart #1. plus the very idea of Cowell/Syco acts routinely topping the charts at the end/start of years which didn't occur until the pop idol/syco tv era.

singles sales actually are a big deal again now that download sales are starting to match and even outstrip 90s CD sales...if only for an elite group (ie the kinds of acts Cowell wants/creates).

not that i think he would actually "rig" it in the conventional sense

The dude running the "HMHB for Xmas number 2" group doesn't seem to realise that none of the 200-odd people in that group are actually going to bother buying a HMHB Mp3

This ^^ I only joined it as a lol at my friends joining the RATM group, and I assume this is likely the case for most of the members...

I liked Raw Patrick's "X FACTOR WINNER FOR XMAS NUMBER 1" status update best tbh.

"I enjoy Leonard Cohen's work but feel no concern for whether he gets more money for his accountant to spunk up the wall while Len's playing at monks."

Yeah, fuck him for getting fleeced by someone he trusted and needing to rebuild his retirement fund.

I like RATM, pretty unapologetically if somewhat nostalgically. it would briefly bring a smile to my face if they had the xmas no.1.

don't care anywhere near enough about it to actually spend money on it though. I already have this song. why would I buy it again just to piss off simon cowell? he barely even exists.

xpost

I didn't say fuck him, I said it wasn't my concern. I know the trials of wealthy pop stars are just as hard as everybody else's trials, I guess it's just compassion fatigue.

(obviously lenny len >>>>> ratm, but im talking about appropriate listening contexts n shit here.)

It's disappointing that last years "Let's pick a song that should be more known than it is" historical choice was a one-off.

Back to the "Wow, that song previously sung by HanMont is a gem of the sort of thing we do here" um, valance.

i'd probably feel a bit more annoyed if this had happened last year as there would've been inevitable "racists!" carping

"Let's pick a song that should be more known than it is"

JESUS WAS A CROSSMAKER FOR XMAS NO. 1

xpost, I can appreciate that but for me Cohen was the first time that I could buy an expensive concert ticket and feel I was helping someone get his finances back on track. (Obviously other artists play comeback tours because they need the £££ too, but not for such dramatic reasons.) So when Hallelujah was everywhere I thought, y'know, good for him.

Well, it did sort-of happen last year (the competing song made number 2) and there was no "racists" carping.

(politics-wise, ratm are no more or less ludicrous than scritti politti, public enemy, the pop group, etc.)

music-wise is possibly a different story

anyone on this thread actually bought it?

Ever since it came out people have gone "haw haw, it sounds like a kid refusing to tidy his room", but the sheer bleeding obviousness of that line is fantastic. In the context of their other songs, it takes that basic, apolitical, adolescent rebel instinct and hooks it up to bigger issues - it's like a protest-song gateway drug. The anti-Cowell campaign, unfortunately, divorces it from all that and reduces it to adolescent petulance again. Not wanting to take this whole Facebook campaign too seriously - it just doesn't do the song any favours.

I dunno, for all when I try to summon up the song from memory, it blends seamlessly into Lily Allen's "Fuck you (fuck youuu) fuck you very very muu-uu-uuuch"

I'm tempted to buy the Joe single just so RATM doesn't make it no. 1. Who's with me? I can't stand that song.

music-wise is possibly a different story

music-wise it pisses on the x-factor song from a height. it's one of those songs like 'come on eileen' that it's hard to resist imo.

i might buy both RATM and Joe just to piss everybody off. tis the season.

It is a lot like 'Come On Eileen' now you mention it.

Yeah, good comparison.

Fuck you (no never!)
Fuck you (no never!)
We are far too young and clever

Simon "square face" Cowell thinks his glorified light-entertainment karaoke music competition show has a right to be Christmas number 1.

you tell 'em

martian boy tell 'em

The dude running the "HMHB for Xmas number 2" group doesn't seem to realise that none of the 200-odd people in that group are actually going to bother buying a HMHB Mp3

What if his plan goes awry and it actually gets to number one! That would be terrible.

Let's not forget Drowned in Sound using it's awesome reach to get Sufjan Stevens to No1:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=196894760422&ref=mf

I am hoping not to hear either of these songs over the next three weeks. I'm not sure what depresses me more Cowell or ironic Facebook campaigns.

I'd've'd more respect for the campaign if they'd picked something like 'Bombtrack' rather than their most commercial song. Sell-outs.

actually the real sell-out move would have been 'bulls on parade'.

25 Rage Against The Machine Killing In The Name Feb 1993
16 Rage Against The Machine Bullet In The Head May 1993
37 Rage Against The Machine Bombtrack Sep 1993
8 Rage Against The Machine Bulls On Parade Apr 1996
26 Rage Against The Machine People Of The Sun Sep 1996
32 Rage Against The Machine Guerilla Radio Nov 1999

People Of The Sun was about having it in Ibeefa

I'm siding with the people who just wanna buy a song they like

just goin back to this, its part of what annoys people tho isn't it. how a song can be so "liked" so quickly. person wins the show - instant stardom, instant song ready to go the next day (which is only revealed the night before) and instant #1. its indefensible other than 'who cares its only the charts'.

that's enough, drowned in sound

Martyn Lewis (of the consumer / credit assistance slot on GMTV) was talking about christmas deals.

Inamongst the Champagne online at Tesco, and the perfume deals, he discusses music downloads. (Funny christmas present, but carry on...)

Apparently the X-Factor d/l is 29p, but so is the explicit RATM one.

If you want the non-explicit one, it's 49p.

And they all count towards the chart.

official chart rules say audio dls must be a min of £0.40; how does tht square w/what lewis is saying?
http://www.theofficialcharts.com/chart_rules.php

Well, he was very definite in saying that he had checked it.

From GM.TV

X Factor song downloads. According to tunechecker.com you can get new King of the X Factor, Joe McElderry's Christmas single for just 29p online from Amazon or Tesco, and the anti-x factor protest song 'Rage against the machine' (it has some explicit lyrics) for 29p at Amazon.

Oh, it's a song called "Rage against the Machine" !

* Only tracks with a minimum PPD of 40p or
more shall be eligible for the download chart.
In the event that a record company has an
alternative business model for the sale of
downloads (ie one not based on a published
dealer price), the price charged to the online
digital retailer should not be less than 32p
per track. OCC will monitor sales to ensure
they are “genuine sales”. Where OCC judges
sales not to be genuine, they may be
excluded from the chart at OCC’s absolute
discretion.

I don't like that 'discretion' word in there. It basically means if everyone sells everything cheap the OCC decides what the chart looks like.

http://nighthawknews.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/allpresmen.jpg

OK, the text above refers to the 'download' chart.

Treating this whole thing as some kind of low-brainer Culture Wars event is what brings the depression. It reminds me of being 14 and sneering at the kids who like all that chart shit. The RatM campaign is that, plus Flashmob mentality. I'm siding with the people who just wanna buy a song they like, not STICK IT TO THE MAN by buying his product.

OTFM.

That includes peeps who really like "Killing in the Name" btw.

how a song can be so "liked" so quickly. person wins the show - instant stardom, instant song ready to go the next day (which is only revealed the night before) and instant #1. its indefensible other than 'who cares its only the charts'.

Thing is that back when people gave a shit about the charts and before tracks got leaked as soon as they spilled out of the band's brains and before Radio 1 played tunes for months before they're officially released, bands used to rely on their hardcore fans doing this shit all the time to get the highest possible chart placing in release week. People have always gone out and bought the new single by their heroes on the basis of zero previews. And the Joe single doesn't exackly have zero previews.

i can't remember a time when singles weren't on the radio for at least a few weeks b4 release.

lol you young

I remember going out and buying "Going Underground" The Jam, the day of release, and going home and playing it having not heard it up till then.

xpost ha, and I am not.

News just in:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8413557.stm

Rock anthem outselling X Factor winner Joe McElderry

The band headlined last year's Reading and Leeds festivals
Rock band Rage Against The Machine is ahead of X Factor winner Joe McElderry in the race for the Christmas number one, early sales figures suggest.

A Facebook group aiming to get the band's 1992 hit Killing In The Name to the top of the festive chart has attracted more than 750,000 members.

But McElderry's debut The Climb, out on CD on Wednesday, is expected to catch up by the weekend.

The Official Charts Company (OCC) said it is "a very exciting battle".

Campaign criticism

It is understood that there is a 10% margin in sales between the two singles after Sunday and Monday.

McElderry's song was released digital after his victory in the X Factor final, while Rage Against The Machine has been out almost twice as long.

X Factor judge Simon Cowell has criticised the internet campaign, calling it "stupid".

The band headlined last year's Reading and Leeds festivals

really?!

They reformed. EARLY 90S MAN indeed :/

Rage Against The Dying Of The Light, old timer

Flip You, I Won't Do What You Tell Me, Not With My Back

They headlined the Saturday night at T In The Park last year as well.

People have always gone out and bought the new single by their heroes on the basis of zero previews. And the Joe single doesn't exackly have zero previews.

i don't think its the same. most artists in that situation didn't start from there. i'd agree there's a connection between those who get hyped for a few months (whether Lady Gaga or Arctic Monkeys or Duffy) to then ensure debut #1 single. i think my only real complaint is that i assume nobody hears the winners song until 7 days before it actually tops the charts, which was never the case for the vast majority of the people buying a song before.

I don't remember too many songs going straight in at #1 back in the day.

NV on point in this thread, although I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who can't stand the flashmob mentality OR RATM. Would be nice if, like, a few people bought that HMHB song, though, because it's probably my favourite Christmas song ever!

Oh is that "It's Cliche'd to be cynical at Christmas" ?

no it's vatican broadside duh

I prefer this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbI8ZB2Jzqk

Simon Cowell is on the front cover of the NME Xmas Double Issue
http://www.nme.com/home

So, the CD is out tomorrow, and all those people who do not download will buy it. Those that want it, I mean, obv.

But also, as this 'news' story gathers momentum, there'll be a whole bunch of people thinking "This could actually happen? Count me in!"

Dunno, still sittin' here, watching it all unfurl...

seriously i don't think this "story" really merits hourly updates, mark, especially when that one wasn't even an update or even a thought

It's a quiet day, what can I say?

Simon Cowell v the NME: 'I don't take music too seriously'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2009/dec/15/simon-cowell-v-nme

La Roux. "how do you feel about ruining the music industry?"

This kettle - branded "black" by Cowell

"I've never considered vopting BNP buying an X-Factor single before, but will do now"

ha this thread explains the odd Facebook thing one of my college roommates sent me

Tom Ewing OTM:
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/12/selling-in-the-name-of/

Has the Facebook group been removed?

Original url redirects to the home page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228594104

http://theglobalherald.com/facebook-shut-rage-against-the-machine-for-christmas-number-1-group/1329/

For a number of hours this afternoon, a Facebook ‘bug’ shut down the “RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE FOR CHRISTMAS NO.1″ Group that has been making headlines all month.

so a butthurt simon cowell tried to use sony muscle and get it shutdown? What a dick.

Facebook have assured them it's a bug and it will be back up. I assume any genuine technical difficulties are down to the volume of traffic which can only be good for RATM's sales. 'Backup Group' here - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37655682127 - already has 100,000 members.

I'm sure Sony won't give a fuck about hundreds of thousands of people buying 'Killing in the Name' from Sony.

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/ProductImages/HighStDonated/8_2009/345142/large_85ecf527521444baaf70b6b62b2fb0a1.jpg

I'm sure they'd prefer Joe to win but yeah

Is possible that the RATM will backfire and people who wouldn't normally buy an X-Factor winners song might do so - probably not that many tho. Physical sales might give it the edge but presumably even 'The Climb' will sell more on downloads this week than CD.

i think people will buy the cd single while out getting the weekly shopping. RATM sales will have peaked.
Cowell obv wants Joe to win as he makes more money from him, Sony cant lose but will want Joe to win since they want another new Will Young.

i'd dispute ewing's surmise that RATM-buyers are doing it as a vote for "real music" -- i think it's just for s&g.

I think people miss the excitement of what will be xmas no1.

xp

well, he's right and wrong. as with any big, disparate group dedicated to a particular cause, motivations vary - but I've heard both openly stated. plus lots of hatred for cowell. which is fair enough.

there's a second wave of RATM buying planned, too. folks will be getting second and third copies once the X-factor CD is out.

I think hatred for cowell is quite justified tbh

xxp

I stopped caring about that years ago, and it's rare that anything I particularly like gets there, yet it still irks me that X-Factor has a monopoly on it. I'd like to see X-Factor brought forward a couple of weeks so it's #1 at the start of December and if it's got any legs it will still be in the mix at Christmas.

yeah, xmas no1 in the past used to be able to come out at the start of the month and hang on if the public really liked it.

im pretty sure it was extremely rare for an xmas single to actually go straight in at no1 on xmas week. Possibly because of xmas parties playing songs then everyone out to buy them.

Is this all really a conspiracy against Ned?

I don't think so.

Oh, that Ned.

people who put any effort into hating simon cowell THINK that they really like music, but only really like it a little bit. if they loved it, the whole thing would be an irrelevance in comparison to finding that rare '74 steely dan boot and straining to hear the michael mcdonald backing vocals. personally I think he seems like he's not that bad a guy, and as his schtick is absolutely nothing new it's nothing to get too worried about. it's not like if people don't have EVIL x factor singles to buy they'll rush out and pick up that new melvins remix lp.

it takes no effort at all to hate simon cowell. it's a passive, instinctive thing. he's a man for whom art exists only to line his pockets, and he's bafflingly successful at doing so. he sells a vision of pop music that's little more than high-gloss karaoke-mawk, devoid of creativity and fun.

but yes, I would agree that he and his products are also easy to ignore, and that our energies are better directed into activities other than despising the man.

(although regardless of the circumstances there's no need to rush out and buy that underwhelming melvins remix album.)

our energies are better directed into activities other than despising the man.

jesus lighten up, yalls are bending over backwards here. also steely dan suck. how much effort does it take to join a fbook group or buy a d/l?

otm apart from about steely dan

One thing I don't get about this Facebook campaign is, why have they picked that particular song to for #1? If the idea of the campaign is to criticize pre-packaged artists immediately reaching the number one spot due to manufactured publicity, wouldn't it make more sense for the Facebook crowd to campaign some current song (preferably a nice and Christmassy one) by a current artist that's been overlooked by music buyers? Why choose the best-known song by a band that must've sold millions of records already? I think choosing "Killing in the Name" makes this campaign feel less like a criticism of pre-packaged, media-hyped music overshadowing good music with less resources for marketing (which is a valid criticism), and more like that eternal war between "manufactured pop stars" and "real, authentic rock musicians who say 'fuck you!'". Which is why it's hard to get behind such a campaign.

"that particular song to go for"

xp

buying a download of a song I already own in two different formats, just to annoy the man is too much effort, frankly.

also steely dan suck.

no argument here.

STEELY DAN FOR NUMBER ONE

One thing I don't get about this Facebook campaign is, why have they picked that particular song to for #1? If the idea of the campaign is to criticize pre-packaged artists immediately reaching the number one spot due to manufactured publicity, wouldn't it make more sense for the Facebook crowd to campaign some current song (preferably a nice and Christmassy one) by a current artist that's been overlooked by music buyers? Why choose the best-known song by a band that must've sold millions of records already? I think choosing "Killing in the Name" makes this campaign feel less like a criticism of pre-packaged, media-hyped music overshadowing good music with less resources for marketing (which is a valid criticism), and more like that eternal war between "manufactured pop stars" and "real, authentic rock musicians who say 'fuck you!'". Which is why it's hard to get behind such a campaign.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:37 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

jesus god you are one literal-minded idiot.

humourless to boot.

Sony should withdraw both tracks in the existing formats, then release them together as a double A-side. Bring the kids together man, don't you know it's Christmas?

Also, then I could ignore just one record instead of two.

i really, really hate simon cowell, but it's less b/c of his motivations or what he "stands for" or whatevz than b/c he's such a grating presence on the tv - he's always so high-handed but also totally content-free. i could take the smugness if he was ever witty or insightful, i could take the emptiness if he seemed likeable, but his personality just comes across as the worst. you don't want people like that to succeed, though as marina hyde wrote the other week he does seem to have created this situation whereby every possible outcome leads to a cowell win anyway, so UGH.

I think choosing "Killing in the Name" makes this campaign feel less like a criticism of pre-packaged, media-hyped music overshadowing good music with less resources for marketing (which is a valid criticism), and more like that eternal war between "manufactured pop stars" and "real, authentic rock musicians who say 'fuck you!'". Which is why it's hard to get behind such a campaign.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:37 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

fact that it IS "killing in the name" = driving engine (or so i'd guess). allows the campaign to appeal to both impulses, & so to attract more numerous & passionate supporters. they need a song that symbolizes "real rock music" to those carrying that particular chip. ideally a popular fuck-you song by an artist that still has a big, peevish & internet-literate fanbase.

i'm an american (literal-minded & humorless as is our wont), so the whole thing's kinda mystifying...

KITN is a really po-faced Important Statement song and a really silly novelty song at the same time, so inasmuch as I'd care to spend any time analysing its choice here, I think it's a good one

yeah but will you be buying the RATM track lex?

well late on all this but:

(politics-wise, ratm are no more or less ludicrous than scritti politti, public enemy, the pop group, etc.)

i think this is spot-on.

Ever since it came out people have gone "haw haw, it sounds like a kid refusing to tidy his room", but the sheer bleeding obviousness of that line is fantastic. In the context of their other songs, it takes that basic, apolitical, adolescent rebel instinct and hooks it up to bigger issues - it's like a protest-song gateway drug.

agreed, and i'd also say that the other lines in the chorus, "those who died / are justified / for wearing the badge", pretty much negate allegations of "haw haw, it sounds like a kid refusing to tidy his room". i mean, not sure if i agree with them, but that's a pretty severe statement there, this song is hardly the levellers' 'there's only one way to live your life' in terms of banal insipidy.

in my experience of seeing people sing along to 'killing in the name of' (mostly at marches bcz i am some kind of self-hating hippy), no-one knows the lyrics to the rest of the chorus.

i guess what i'm saying is, if the rest of the song is about bigger issues, and no-one hears it, do they give a fuck?

MOTHERFUCKER

^^ they know that bit

i guess what i'm saying is, if the rest of the song is about bigger issues, and no-one hears it, do they give a fuck?

possibly not, but does that make the song itself less subversive? and is it fair to judge a song because of the people who love it (which i think is a large part of why some people are so vehemently against the RATM thing but what can i say, i'd be sneery if it was a bunch of indie spods who wanted a Smiths song at #1)?

(obv its unfair but i do it too, i mean)

i mean, i was pretty clear on what the song meant when i first heard it when i was sixteen, and i'm pretty sure the message was lost on the dickholes at my school who also loved it but decided it'd be funny to turn up to a fancy dress party as KKK members (in Wimbledon of all places) but i do try to stop this drubbing my fondness for the song. fwiw i still find it electrifying, and less so for the 'fuck you i won't do what you tell me' bit than the rest of the chorus. clumsy and heavy-handed though it is.

Is this campaign about love for the song? It feels to me like it's about quite-liking and co-opting. It's not "RATM for number one bcz it's electrifying" (tbh i still really like the 'and now you do what they told ya' bit); it's "RATM for number one for because a song that goes 'fuck you i won't do what you tell me' is a funny riposte to the idea of simon cowell's control over chart success", or "RATM for number one because it's a proper rock song" or... a number of other things.

this is weird because normally i'm really excited about the extra-musical factors that go into a song's popularity. I guess it's just that 1. i hate the fact that everything has to be tied into the simon cowell narrative and 2. i have heard that song way too many times to want to ever hear it again, it feels like such a lazy shorthand for rebellion.

Irony of being told to buy song with prominent "fuck you I wont do what you tell me" refrain in an effort to spite people who they think are buying something cos they've been told to.

I love Simon Cowell. Best thing on TV.

it's a joke, nick.

no-one is much being told to do anything.

You've not listened to FiveLive today I take it.

why on EARTH would someone do such a thing?

tbh most of the people i know that have joined the fb group aren't treating it as a joke this is a serious stand against the man and evil pop music for a lot of people. lol.

Exactly. People are fucking mental.

Taking sides 'this is a really lame statement' vs 'anything that annoys Simon Cowell is a good thing'.

Is there any third song that's remotely like to get in ahead of both of them, or is that a pipe dream?

I've not listened to FiveLive todayEVER.

Is there any third song that's remotely like to get in ahead of both of them, or is that a pipe dream?

the coldstream guards performing 'theme from dambusters'?

No, me neither. xpost

(I'm out most of today, LexPretend fans...)

it is weird to me that it has to be either "a joke" or "a serious stand against the man" - isn't it more likely to be both at the same time?

it's a joke and a big middle-finger-up to simon cowell/shitty x-factor music, but "serious"? maybe for some people. it's the top 40 though, not... something serious.

you're missing the bigger picture, man

cowell, chemtrails, poverty, facism, it's all the same

i think people do take this sort of culture-war-ish stuff quite seriously! I have this feeling that a general sense of "it's the top 40 not something serious" allows people to get serious about it, if that makes any sense - it is a manageable thing to care about, the consequences of disappointment are less devastating.

Hasn't Dame Vera Lynn got a Christmas single out celebrating Our Brave Boys in Afghanistan?

Yeah, she is doing a cover of 'Bulls on Parade'.

I'd buy that.

'bulls on parade' is a better song than 'killing in the name'

better riff at least

"I can see the majority of the population rushing to buy the RAGE track now it has taken the lead in the competition.

X Factor needs to get a beating and I think this RAGE song is fully deserving of the mood in the UK this Christmas about the wars that have been ILLEGALLY FOUGHT in our name.

This is a way to restore the good name of the UK around the World by showing that we are not a shallow media driven country addicted to pap on our tvs."

David Cameron?

k-punk?

Dame Vera Lynn?

Zack de la Rocha?

Every one on my Facebook friends list who have joined this RATM-For-#1 group are the exact same ones who have spent the past few months leaving updates that go along the lines of "having a quiet night with a takeaway and the x-factor", "grr, get Jedward out!", "blah blah x-factor blah blah" (I don't take much notice as I don't watch it).
None of them are anti-X-Factor, some might hate Cowell, but they seem to be behind this campaign solely for the lulz, with a side-order of "it's getting boring having an X-Factor winner as Xmas #1 tbh".

i posted this on freakytrig, but i think a substantial part of the anti-cowell resentment might be due to the shambles of this series - a poor final line-up, a dull winner, the various shenanigans and injustices over the course of it...so there will be disillusioned x-factor fans buying this as well as people who hate everything about the programme

I've got the Parliament channel on in the background while I work fuck around on the internet. Keith Vaz has just given way to Brooks Newmark to allow him to correct him on which constituency X-Factor runner-up Ollie lives in. I'd have preferred him to shout 'FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!' to the speaker.

what was the context ie why the hell are they talking about Olly Murs in Parliament? ARE WE LOSING A WAR?

<3 how after the FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME bit at the end morello brings in that chillax sounding 9th funk chord, haha, jeez haven't listened to this in years! it's pretty lame tbh!

drummer and bassist are fucking awful when they aren't playing really straight

http://www.we7.com/#/artist/Rage-Against-The-Machine!artistId=25645

Christmas Recess Debate - I think anyone gets to talk about whatever the fuck they like while everyone else gets pissed. Vaz started by complimenting the member for Colchester(?) on his constituent's performance in X-Factor and was interrupted by Newmark with a point of order that he was in fact from Aintree. I believe he was outside the chamber and ran in to make the correction.

I paid for this conversation to take place :/

xpost

not Aintree lol, Braintree

just saw this on facebook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AYUqVNSsY

SuBo stealing that one

yep

"Simon Cowell set to win the top spot at Christmas regardless, as Rage Against The Machine are revealed as being on the same label as Joe McElderry. (Star p1, p4-5)"

Heh, "revealed". Good work, Woodward and Bernstein.

maybe there should be an annual anti X-Factor rock track to f-off Cowell

next year how about: Killing Joke - Love Like Blood or The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

This gesture can only get fresher and more exciting as it's repeated every year

next year we should make it:::: Joe McElderry

BOO-YA

In other words, an obscure artist who hasn't had a hit in ages...

So apparently Nicky Campbell (clue: if Nicky Campbell is ever on your side, change sides) invited Rage on to his Radio 5 show this morning to play the song, if they promised not to sweared. But then they sweared. The last I heard before turning the radio off was all these peeps phoning in to offer support/smash the system.

^^ this is why im all for the ratm campaign. that is funny, come on. nicky campbell wants to back the system-smashers so long as they don't sing THE BIT THE SONG IS FAMOUS FOR.

(ie im for it because it creates comedy gems.)

I am coming round. It was quite cute and inspiring the way all these peeps were defending the noble cause.

it was hilarious. zach held off the 'fuck yous' until the very very last moment, and he fired off a bunch before the producers scrambled to fade him out, and the presenter said 'go buy joe's record'...

Also if we're really lucky Campbell will get a swift Russell Brandage from the Board of Governors.

http://www.eataudio.com/ratm-5live-17-12-2009.mp3

Also the sound of BBC presenters stumbling thru ham-footed debates in a ILX 2003 style is pretty funny.

i find myself vaguely cheering on RATM for the same reason that i wanted joe to be voted out of the x-factor most weeks - he is SO INSIPID and such a bad winner, it'd be funny if he was the only x-factor winner who couldn't manage a no 1

It's a moral maze alright, this is definitely pretty funny but even watching the pretty funny video of the x-factor guys singing it it's hard to ignore what a heinously shit song it is

It's like my enemy's enemy is still pretty much my enemy. Got no time for RatM after that first album but "Killing in the Name" is catchy and fun.

And as a fan of earnest baffled stupidity, this is generating content.

Nicky Campbell (clue: if Nicky Campbell is ever on your side, change sides) invited Rage on to his Radio 5 show this morning to play the song, if they promised not to sweared

sack Campbell and replace with Tommy Boyd immediately

Don't think 5 Live needs any more concern trolls tbh

Cross-reference Have Your Say and all the non-sport bits of 5 Live and you realise that the Beeb's main function in the 21st century is giving mentalists somewhere to vent.

Not sure if this is better than the "Mission to Explain" tbh

Okay Campaign for Real Music vs Irate Mother of Two shouting match hurting my head now, radio going off again.

"right-wing to reply" more like

no wait, "far right to reply"

5 Live really needs Geir to phone in today I think.

the Beeb's main function in the 21st century is giving mentalists somewhere to vent.

Keeps them off the streets...

next year's pick should be "i love LA". no real reason, it just owns.

It's a moral maze alright

― MPx4A, Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:11 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

next year's pick should be "i love LA". no real reason, it just owns.

QFT

O Supermayne

Lot of people at work are VERY into downloading this to spite Cowell and "fuck up X Factor bollocks". Wish I'd had chance tom listen to FiveLive phone-in; caught a little bit at lunchtime while driving to post office and it seemed horrific. I love their news andf sports coverage but hate it when they... hell, when anyone bar ILX / Stylus / PFM / axis of evil internetmusicsnobs talks music.

We are very cosseted here in terms of the sophistication of the debate. In the real world it's like the first half hour of 2001.

I love that the BBC thought they could get RATM to not sing the line 'FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!' Surely they all seen that one coming?

yeah it was probably deliberate

still a sounder editorial judgement than asking "should homosexuals be executed?" on HYS tho

Surprised RATM would so embrace their role as Cowell's foil, which is to say, subservience to his fame/rep. I'm sure they'll make a big production out of donating the proceeds, and Cowell can gather the rug from under them with a one-liner, "I'm proud to be responsible for such strong dialog and activity from both sides."

Don't pretend you weren't counting down the minutes until this

Too bad no-one is going with the obvious XXXX-factor headline.

i liked that they said he'd made a career out of being nasty to people. he has really, i think he's a smug cunt all told.

In the real world it's like the first half hour of 2001.

listening to a mash-up remix and anticipating a new series of 'attachments'?

but nowhere near as enjoyable as all that

i think he meant the movie, with the chimps and all

I think henry, who knows a little bit about film, might have realised that.

The last big Christmas battle anywhere near this scale was Spice Girls 'Goodbye' vs Chef's 'Chocolate Salty Balls' in 1998, when Spice Girls won out with 380,000 sales vs 375,000.

Before that, Wham! were beaten by Band Aid in 1984 - before detailed sales records were available - in the biggest battle of the Eighties.

surely everybody remembers where they were when The Darkness were merked by Gary Jules

haha

Yeah great stuff. Real rebellion for 'real' British music. let's make Facebook (a capitalist entity) and a bunch of middle-aged and well-established AMERICAN musicians even wealthier while depriving a 16yr old British kid of his moment of glory in an area that has no genuine musical credibility.

Fantastic, guys. Well done.

Now go and see a local band and stop 'social networking'. It's like punk never happened!
- Carrie, Bedfordshire, 17/12/2009 13:48

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1236591/Rage-Against-The-Machine-swear-BBC-radio-race-Christmas-No-1-turns-ugly.html#ixzz0ZxWjOXO5

i bet that line pushed jim over the edge to support RATM now :)

look who's talking
trailofgybe

Rage Against the Machine – Killing In The Name Listening now

this thread convinced me

I'd already switched back to Joe again cos some idiot let Tom Morello give quotes.

daily mail reader says joe makes "real music" i think that trumps tom morello.

Tom Morello donating royalties to a UK music charity btw

I did enjoy this (presumably non-ironic) reader comment:

Sue and Dave

You, like this violence advocating, foul mouthed and quite frankly hateful band perfectly sum up all that is wrong with this country nowadays.

How many youths, influenced by this morning's disgraceful behaviour (and oh yes, I have complained to the BBC too) would have gone out and committed a violent crime.

I would estimate that the figure would be in the HUNDREDS and it wouldn't surprise me if either of you two were involved in some criminal activity either.

Joe is who the youths of today need as a role model, not some uneducated, loud, offensive 'singers' from the US of A.

I dont usually care for 'popular music' but I really hope Joe gets to Number One to show everyone that the British public will not stand for rudeness, hurtful and upsetting language or violence.

"Signed, Not Chris Morris"

bloody students

if it were the express page then diana would've got a mention

imo everyone involved in this needs to be shot into space

or roundly ignored

"F*** you I won't do what you tell me" are part of the songs lyrics. I have had the album this sons is off since about 1995 (maybe earlier? I'm not sure off top of head) but it's a great album, very leftist (unfortunately), but you can turn it on it's head to be a very anti-EU collection of songs.

- Ali, Alney Island, Glos., 17/12/2009 15:44

Before that, Wham! were beaten by Band Aid in 1984 - before detailed sales records were available - in the biggest battle of the Eighties.

I still have not recovered from this injustice.

a great album, very leftist (unfortunately), but you can turn it on it's head to be a very anti-EU collection of songs

I love this, but it is too beautiful to be real

is there some way i can unbuy a copy of this record, make it count as one less sale? if i send my copy of the album back to sony/BMG or something?

I've so far held back from reacquainting myself with the lyrics to see if this claim bears fruit, but doubt I'm going to last :/

Europe ain't my rope to swing on
Can't learn a thing from it
Yet we hang from it
Gotta get it, gotta get it together then
Like the motherfuckin' weathermen
To expose and close the doors on those who try
To strangle and mangle the truth
'Cause the circle of hatred continues unless we react
We gotta take the power back

You, like this violence advocating, foul mouthed and quite frankly hateful band perfectly sum up all that is wrong with this country nowadays.
How many youths, influenced by this morning's disgraceful behaviour (and oh yes, I have complained to the BBC too) would have gone out and committed a violent crime.
I would estimate that the figure would be in the HUNDREDS and it wouldn't surprise me if either of you two were involved in some criminal activity either.
Joe is who the youths of today need as a role model, not some uneducated, loud, offensive 'singers' from the US of A.
I dont usually care for 'popular music' but I really hope Joe gets to Number One to show everyone that the British public will not stand for rudeness, hurtful and upsetting language or violence.
- Simon Walsh, Surrey, 17/12/2009 15:35

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1236591/Rage-Against-The-Machine-swear-BBC-radio-race-Christmas-No-1-turns-ugly.html#ixzz0ZxxBD1Uq

oops wrong one

Enough already! if you haven't been to a gig in the last 3 weeks, you're not supporting 'real' music and your right to comment becomes irrelevant.

If you had been to a gig, and this so-called (Facebook PR) campaign was relevant, you'd have chosen something good and British like 'Imagine' or even "Stop the Cavalry" which, as an anti-war song is pretty darn good.

Get out your bedrooms and do something!

- Carrie, Bedfordshire, 17/12/2009 16:35

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1236591/Rage-Against-The-Machine-swear-BBC-radio-race-Christmas-No-1-turns-ugly.html#ixzz0ZxxfiuMR

It is not even the best song on that album, and "Bombtrack" has the possibly more appropriate line "Fuck Manifest Destiny."

I always confuse the Weathermen with those guys who kept selling vegetables in imperial measurements even when they weren't supposed to so I'm feeling this

xposts

Which one of you is "Simon Walsh"?

To all the members of the broken generation who do not agree with my comments and suggest that I do more 'research'...

Why on earth do I need to do research when I (and more importantly) my family have been so offended by the behaviour of some so called 'singers' and the BBC?

After dropping my visibly shaken son off in school (he couldn't make eye contact with me) I drove home and sat in what, in hindsight, I can only describe as a 'dumbfounded silence'.

You may laugh at me for my strong opinions on this matter but I ask you why do Raging on the Machine need to contain swear words in their songs if they are so talented? Is their vocabulary so lacking that they have to use such abusive language.... Did they learn this in Havard? If so, the education system of the U S of A is in an even worse state that of the once Great Britain. And that is a scary thought.

- Simon Walsh, Surrey, 17/12/2009 16:34

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1236591/Rage-Against-The-Machine-swear-BBC-radio-race-Christmas-No-1-turns-ugly.html#ixzz0ZxxwfjQJ

If the monkeys from 2001 were reading these, they'd be saying how cossetted and sophisticated they are too.

The present curriculum
I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric every last one of 'em

haha

@ Simon Walsh, Surrey, 17/12/2009 15:35

As soon as I heard the song this am, I started driving through red lights, while talking on my mobile (and not hands-free, I can tell you) and having a beer - AT 9AM!!!

When I got to work kicked a cat I came across in the carpark, then carried on smoking my cigarette as I walked past the "no smoking past this point" sign. I stubbed it out on the floor and just left it there too.

I put an extra sausage in my roll in the canteen this morning and didn't pay for it. And took some extra tomato sauce sachets for free!

I calmed down a bit after that but, having downloaded RATM and listened again, at lunchtime I went on a rampage through the carpark, writing "Clean Me" on the back of all the dirty cars.

I was thinking of listening to the song again before I leave, but can see that I may rampage through Morningside Waitrose with dreadful consequences.

I'd better not, as I don't want my Grandson knowing his Grandad has been sectioned.

- Dave, Edinburgh, Uk, 17/12/2009 16:03

"Out in the real world, it's like the last half-hour of Mean Guns"

Definitely made up

Like all right-minded Daily Mail readers, I am morally outraged. My licence fee is funding these so-called 'guitarists' to shout obscenities against the police. Did soldiers die in a war for this so-called 'punkster music'? Should youngsters be dancing to this on the one day we have in the whole year to celebrate Baby Jesus? Bring back National Service and send them all off to fight in a war. That'll teach them respect for authority!

- Daniel Brett, Loughton, UK, 17/12/2009

I think BBC users really do just post on the daily mail site while daily mail readers post on HYS.

Thanking you UK for bringing me laffs on this day.

On Thursday afternoon, bookmakers Ladbrokes made Joe McElderry 1/4 favourite to get the number one slot on Sunday night.

oh man this is too good

Hm, them's short odds - those CD singles must've been flying out of Tesco

Suggestion for Next Year's Anti-Cowell Track:

Dead Kennedys - Too Drunk To Fuck
http://www.last.fm/music/Dead+Kennedys/_/Too+Drunk+To+Fuck

You could well vet ILM's power in this world by an annual run at HMHB's "Cliched".

Hm, them's short odds - those CD singles must've been flying out of Tesco

Apparently they're flying off the shelves. Joe fans on the internet saying theyre buying multiple copies, no doubt RATM fans will do the same. Would be far funnier if both got disqualified from the charts because of that.

Picking up the baton, NME critic Luke Lewis calls the protest a "huge waste of everyone's time and money" - and goes on to suggest its supporters are trivialising Killing In The Name's political message:

There are better singles to back if you want to strike a blow against Simon Cowell and his record label, SyCo, says Peter Robinson on the Popjustice website. In particular, Fifty Grand For Christmas, a song by former X Factor auditionee Paul Holt:

"In case you've forgotten, when Paul Holt auditioned for the first series of The X Factor Simon Cowell told him that if Holt managed to get a Number One single, he'd hand over fifty thousand pounds. So Holt made a song, 'Fifty Grand For Christmas', about the bet. As the lyrics - and this is one of the greatest opening lines in the history of popular song - explain: 'Simon says he'll pay the sum of fifty thousand pounds if I get to Number One.'"

Hold on, Wasn't Cowell behind the Mr. Blobby song?

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Dec/Week3/15503212.jpg

X Factor's Simon Cowell says BBC's support for Rage Against The Machine is 'sour grapes'

Simon Cowell reckons the BBC is backing Rage Against The Machine in the Christmas No 1 battle in a childish display of revenge – because The X Factor trounced Strictly Come Dancing.

A source close to Cowell said: “At the moment, it just looks like a massive case of sour grapes from the BBC.

“Strictly was smashed in the ratings by X Factor. Now someone at the BBC seems to have an agenda and that has made Simon and people working on The X Factor furious.”

The music mogul is convinced the evidence suggests the BBC is giving plugs to Rage’s single Killing In The Name because it wants X Factor

winner Joe McElderry to fail to hit the top spot.

The source added: “Most of the radio phone-ins and coverage on the chart battle seems to be about Rage.

“Simon is not upset about losing money or anything like that. He just wants Joe to have a fair chance and an opportunity to get a debut No1”.

Cowell said the campaign to keep Joe off the No1 spot was inspired by “musical snobbery”.

He added: “Joe doesn’t deserve to be stuck in the middle of this.

“I can’t stand snobbery and a campaign aimed at harming him and his chart position just for the sake of it is unnecessary.”

Yesterday, Joe was still flagging behind. His single The Climb had sold 216,795 copies while Killing In The Name was in the lead with 253,476.

But Joe is now expected to get a boost from CD sales – and bookies predict he will be No1 when the Christmas chart is announced on
Sunday.

Cowell’s fellow X Factor judge’s Louis Walsh and Cheryl Cole yesterday drummed up support for Joe. Louis said: “I really think Joe deserves to be a No1. He has worked so hard for this.”

Cheryl said: “I would be devastated to see Joe lose out..”

A BBC spokesman denied it was biased against Joe. He added: “It’s a fascinating race for the top spot and we’re playing both songs and reflecting both campaigns.”

Saturday will be the crucial day for Joe as shoppers buy CDs as stocking fillers.

Official Charts Company managing director Martin Talbot said: “The massive surge of interest in both of these records has set this up to be one of the biggest Christmas chart tussles many of us can remember.

“By the end of the week, we could be talking about more than one million sales across two singles in a week, which is remarkable.”

Ladbrokes now have Joe as 1-5 favourite. The man responsible for the Rage campaign was yesterday still urging people to buy their song.

Jon Morter, who started a Facebook campaign, said: “People who aren’t major Rage fans are buying it because they are sick of X Factor’s domination.”

such bullshit. the sense of entitlement to a christmas #1 the whole x-factor operation are displaying gets my back up.

Picking up the baton, NME critic Luke Lewis calls the protest a "huge waste of everyone's time and money" - and goes on to suggest its supporters are trivialising Killing In The Name's political message:

haaaaa

The LAPD were so close to solving their problem with institutional racism and now this happens - today truly is Black Friday

I thought "Bullet in the head" was better.

Hold on, Wasn't Cowell behind the Mr. Blobby song?

― Mitchell Stirling, Friday, 18 December 2009 14:38 (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yup, and zig and zag, teletubbies etc .

Ha, I was thinking about the Teletubbies when someone called Rage Against The Machine po-faced upthread.

an open letter to simon :

http://saveourmusicindustry.com/

the BBC and C4 should have a weekly music show that fills the gap of previous shows: Whistle Test / Snub TV / The Tube / 120 Minutes - Jools Holland Later is far too conformist / establishment / bland

flashback to 2007: with this guardian blog:

Modern music television is rubbish
The tube used to be home to musical delights like The White Room and Snub TV. Where are they now?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2007/nov/13/endofyearcharts

who can forget snrub tv?

Snub TV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snub_TV

Jaysus that saveourmusicindustry site.

got bored by 4th para.
but deteremined to finish reading it before EOD.

Who won X Factor even two years ago? Or before that?

leona lewis. shane ward. that fat chick.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/mobicious_production/000/060/60771.jpg ?

"guerilla radio" would have been a better choice IMO

I received an invitation to this FB group from someone I knew at college who went to London on a school program last year.

btw, seeing an American friend of yours getting off the plane from England and engaging in the Christmas Number One debate is pretty lol.

Also, I once heard this song being unironically blasted from an LAPD reception desk.

No way can that be true. Would be even better if they had a muzak version in the elevator.

“Simon is not upset about losing money or anything like that. He just wants Joe to have a fair chance and an opportunity to get a debut No1”.

Isn't that exactly what he's got?

Hold on, Wasn't Cowell behind the Mr. Blobby song?

Flashback of my wife's (then) teenage sister bursting into tears and leaving the room because Take That didn't hang on to the top spot. She didn't speak to anyone for days. Think I'll but the Joe song...

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Dec/Week3/15504197.jpg

I quite like the RATM campaign, a bit of harmless mischief.

That's my two pence.

The Sun may have just broken record for 'most cunts on a front page' there

holy shit ur right

poll

hahahahahahahahahaha blueski bringing it

No way can that be true. Would be even better if they had a muzak version in the elevator.

It is true. There all these cops walking around getting office business done and one of them was actively listening and getting into it (mouthing the lyrics, nodding the head to the beat).

And the aforementioned girl who sent me the Facebook invite to this campaign provided another layer of irony I forgot to mention (besides the fact that she's American and we shouldn't pretend to care about Christmas #1): she is a professional singer who provides vocals for Disney musicals and albums.

Even she believes we got to fight the powers that be! (FIGHT THE POWER)

I like the way it looks like the Sun's used Ahmadinejad's passport photo. Possibly that's also Clarkson's passport photo.

Clarkson doesn't need a passport, abroad is full of dirty foreigners

I think it's quite funny. Harmless fun. Fun fun fun.
It would have been better if it was Goreguts, though, I suppose.

I'm sure Rage wd be delighted to be harmless fun.

(xxpost) That whole front page is the embodiment of the old "if the wind changes you'll get stuck like that" warning. And when he's no longer President of Iran, he can use that picture on his ID when he moves to New York to become a cab driver. (still refereing to Clarkson there)

Okay, since people are talking about "Killing in the Name", can someone help me understand what the lyrics of the song are really about, since I've never quite figured then out in the 15 years since I first heard it. There doesn't even seem to be any consensus on what the actual lyrics are, since they are omitted from the album sleeve. On various websites I've checked there are several different transcriptions and interpretations of the lyrics. Now, first of all, you have this line in the song:

Some of those that were forces, are the same that burn crosses.

Okay, if this is indeed the actual lyric, I think this line is pretty easy to understand. It seems to be saying that some of those who were members of the police force, or other govermental authorities, were also racists and members of the KKK. This is an undeniable fact, and while it's hardly an original insight, it is the sort of criticism you can imagine a band like RAtM putting forth.

However, it's not clear whether the lyrics actually go like this. If this is the correct lyric, then the tense of the sentence abruptly changes from past to present, from "were" to "are". What would this mean? That some people used to be members of the police force, but now they're not, now they're only racists? That doesn't make much sense. Of course it's possible that RAtM simply doesn't care much about tenses and grammar, because caring about such things wouldn't be very rock'n'roll, would it?

However, many people hear the lyric as "some of those that work forces", and admittedly that's kinda how it sounds to me too. Now, I assume that in this case "work forces" means that these people are working for the police force or other governmental agency. My English may not be perfect, but I'm pretty sure "work forces" isn't a proper English phrase, if it's meant to be used in the way mentioned above. If you do a Google search for the phrase "that work forces", almost all of the results refer to the lyrics of "Killing in the Name". If RAtM is indeed saying "those that work forces", it seems no one else is using the English language in that way.

Some lyrics sites also claim that the last part of the song is not "burn crosses" but "bore crosses". Now, I'm going to dismiss this as merely a case of collective mishearing, because otherwise the lyric would be totally incoherent. If it is indeed "bore crosses", is RAtM then be saying that some policemen were also Christians? What kind of an observation is that? For the sake of finding any point in the song, I'm going to assume "burn crosses" is the correct lyric.

Okay, however garbled that piece of lyric is, at least it makes some sense. But then you get this other line, which seems to be a direct continuation of the "burn crosses" lyric:

Those who died are justified, for wearing a badge, they're the chosen ones.

If this is the correct transcription of the (admittedly unclear) lines Zack de la Rocha is shouting, then how does it relate it to the previous line about racist policemen? Here he seems to be saying that the ones who died died because they were wearing a badge. But aren't the ones who did the killing, i.e. the cops, supposed to be wearing a badge? And what about the reference to the "chosen ones". Maybe RAtM isn't talking about victims of police brutality anymore, rather than the Jews that died in the Holocaust. Jews are sometimes called "God's chosen people", so maybe the "chosen ones" bit refers to that. And I guess you could say their killing was "justified" by the Nazis for them wearing a "badge", i.e. the Star of David the Nazis forced Jews to wear. But if this is the correct intepretation, why would RAtM abruptly change the subject of their song from American racism and police brutality to the Holocaust?

Many lyric sites say that last words of the line are not "chosen ones" but "chosen whites". But if the rest of the lyric is correct, that would make even less sense. Now it was the whites who died and whose deaths were justified?! What the heck does that mean? Who are these whites Zack de la Rocha is talking about?

I haven't seen this particular transcription on any lyrics sites, but when I listen to the song, personally I tend to hear the aforementioned line like this:

Those who died are justified, by wearing your badge, and you're chosen white.

Now, grammatically this is a horribly composed sentence, but at least it would make some sense in relation to the previous line about racist policemen. Here Mr. de la Rocha would be saying that policemen justify the deaths they've caused by "wearing a (police) badge"; i.e., when police kills someone it's always justified, because the police are never wrong and they only shoot bad guys. And the final piece of the line is simply a separate criticism aimed towards the cops: they're the "chosen white(s)", the racist white folks who run America. If this interpretation is correct, you have to wonder why RAtM choose to convey their message via such a grammatical mess of a sentence, one that would lead to countless misinterpretations?

To sum it up: I think it's kinda funny that "Killing in the Name" is considered such an important political song, when there seems to be no clear consensus on what the actual political message is, and the only piece of lyric everyone remembers and agrees on is "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!".

Joe McElderry wrote:
They can't be serious! I had no idea what it sounded like. It's dreadful and I hate it. How could anyone enjoy this? Can you imagine the grandmas hearing this over Christmas lunch? I wouldn't buy it. It's a nought out of ten from me. Simon Cowell wouldn't like it. They wouldn't get through to boot camp on The X Factor - they're just shouting.

Oh Tuomas, so much to explain about lyrics not being the same as politics text-books and so little time.

joe mcelderry for the singles jukebox btw

Hi Tuomas, I don't understand it either.

Joe going from 16 straight to 86 with "that's not music, that's just noise"

The BBC did a piece on the meaning of the song yesterday, and did not too bad a job I thought - civil disobedience as a response to the LA riots they reckon. It still looks like x-factor has the race sewn up to me, the bookies' odds are a way short of neck-and-neck.

Why did no one mention the Muppets are in the running for their cover of "Bohemian Rhapsody?!" I'd like to think that throws the whole contest off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfZGUdcBBLc&feature=player_embedded

The word on the street is that RATM have got the number one.

(xxpost) Muppets are at #32

Livebloggin' this: http://williambswygart.wordpress.com/

i'm astonished how many people on the facebook wall are going 'so who won' and 'how and when do we find out what the winning song wil be?' etc.
campaign seems to have become so big now that people who... don't even understand what the chart IS are in the group!

can we get joe mcelderry to #1 next year to piss off cowell?

joe who?

Would this ever work again? I mean by next September there's going to be loads of FB groups trying to get Too Drunk To Fuck or 4'33" to Number 1.

i think i'm going to un-friend anyone who posts a cynical facebook statud update about how anyone who bought the RATM download just "did what they told ya, hur hur" because their grasp of irony is truly sub-Alanis

My other half who works for a record company, has just shown me the final sales figures circular email thingy.

1. Rage Against The Machine - 502,672
2. Joe McElderry - 450,838

yeah you're right but then i thought that *last* year (jeff buckley at number 2) and then look what happened.

oh swygart you are a martyr but seriously, just go get some sleep and put yrself out of this misery

I have still not heard the recorded version of "The Climb" but it can't be worse than the X Factor finalists' version of "You Are Not Alone". Surely.

The Muppets' version of Bohemian Rhapsody is dead good though.

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if fuck her then fuck a cow then fuck you

And now, the song that basically ran 2009 is at number nine. Which feels about right.

???????????????????

never had a true 'pop culture so fragmented' moment until that #9

it's glee, isn't it?

What is it? BBC site's being slow as.

is glee even on british telly?

do we Brits care about Glee? I know Don't Stop Believin' had been a student union favourite here for months, but I was putting it down to a localised bit of inexplicable wtf.

glee debuted maybe last week on uktv?

the pilot for glee, which features the journey song, aired on e4 last week.

xpost

that journey singer's pretty homely, isn't he?

It's largely X Factor (Joe did it twice), but in America it was Glee plus Sopranos plus that episode of Family Guy where they do it at Karaoke.

It has been floating around in the lower reaches of the top 100 over here for months, though. ChartStats: http://www.chartstats.com/songinfo.php?id=9816 - evidently it's had a cult following for quite a while.

one of joe's big songs on the x-factor was 'don't stop believin' iirc too.

xpost

I can't tell if Tom Morello's taking the piss. I hope he is.

Another 'worst music writing 09' contender for you to read while twiddling yr thumbs btw http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/x-factor/6845688/Christmas-Number-1-who-will-be-top-of-the-festive-pops.html

I would like to know the cause of Dont Stop Believin dangling around since February!

wow this Peter Kay's Animated All Star Band thing is pretty brain-breaking.

is that 3oh3 song lol enough to stop me listening to kirsty maccoll?

I really can't tell, but it works an absolute bloody charm in the context of this chart. So probably not depending upon what Kirsty you've gone for.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WuGS%2BQ%2BAL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

"Rage Anti-Establishment the Machine"?

'sbetter than Quietly Alone, but no, it's not a patch on Terry.

The word on the street was right.

lol simon cowell

http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/ecw/video/dvd-anarchy.jpg

PURISTS' DREAM MATCH!

pretty sure Joe will "climb" to #1 next week tho

pretty much guaranteed he will

Good work, half-a-million japesters.

owned

will never be as good as when bruno brookes played the full version. I have that tape recording somewhere. Was funniest thing ever at the time.

I was being cynical about both these singles at the beginning of the week, but am actually pretty happy about this now.

i will say one thing, it's nice to have excitement over an xmas no1 for the 1st time in years. It's the way it should be.

There should have been a remix with sleighbells, missed opportunity

still don't see why it should be any more exciting at xmas than any other time

tradition steve, tradition.

do the charts even exist the other 51 weeks of the year now?

Past xmas no1's.
2000: Bob the Builder: Can We Fix It
2001: Robbie Williams & Nicole Kidman: Somethin' Stupid
2002: Girls Aloud: Sound of the Underground
2003: Michael Andrews feat Gary Jules: Mad World
2004: Band Aid 20: Do They Know It's Christmas?
2005: Shayne Ward: That's My Goal
2006: Leona Lewis: A Moment Like This
2007: Leon Jackson: When You Believe
2008: Alexandra Burke: Hallelujah

this is the first time i have listened to x factor guy single, it is still playing as i say i have already forgotten it

if we had a poll i'd vote the 2001 xmas no1 as the worst.

poor fat bird

pretty sure there's a cowbell on the rhythm track

unintential lolfatrobbie xpost there

eurgh, need to learn to spell

sound of the underground head and shoulders better than any other noughties xmas #1

It's certainly streets ahead of the others in that list

5/10 no1s have come from reality TV though. Probably would've been 6 if Band Aid hadn't released a single.

You think Cowell will go for a band aid xfactor charity no1 single for next year?

so Cowell has been taught a lesson, the winner of his karaoke music show doesn't automatically have entitlement to Christmas Number 1 - he has been wedgied by viral marketing on a mass scale

The Steve Brookstein one wasn't released til jan/feb, I think

whatever happened to Shayne Ward and Steve Brookstein and Joe?

But there's not exactly a successful history of nobheads/Radio 1 DJs trying to game the chart like this so I doubt anything will happen.

― You treat your step-mother with respect, Pantera (Noodle Vague),

Rage were down to 9,000 ahead on Friday, then accelerated away again.

tradition steve, tradition

but what tradition? not like xmas chart actual battles happened every year

so Rage really won? no shit!

however I'm guessing Joe will get it next week, I doubt his drop-off in sales will be nearly as great as Rage's. But he lost the Xmas #1 which I know is the important one...

When and how did UK's fixation on Christmas #1 begin, btw? I've never heard of any other country where reaching the #1 spot on Christmas would be considered so much more important than reaching it some other time of the year.

this Joe kid needs to stop fucking smiling

and when will this suit tyranny end?

david quantick is v upset about all this

Tuomas: Christmas be the time for office parties and the festive playing of ye olde Christmas hits. And also now Killing In The Name, which I will certainly be able to get behind if I'm dancing with my boss.

When and how did UK's fixation on Christmas #1 begin, btw?

since the charts started

combination of factors over the years, the significance of the weekly radio 1 chart show, top of the pops Christmas special, tabloid interest, significant record company promotions with the prize of having the kudos of being number 1, leading to the traditional media / cultural / commerce race to be Christmas number 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christmas_number_one_singles_%28UK%29

Year ↓ Artist ↓ Song ↓ Weeks at
#1

1952 Al Martino "Here in My Heart" 9
1953 Frankie Laine "Answer Me" 8
1954 Winifred Atwell "Let's Have Another Party" 5
1955 Dickie Valentine "Christmas Alphabet" 3
1956 Johnnie Ray "Just Walkin' in the Rain" 7
1957 Harry Belafonte "Mary's Boy Child" 7
1958 Conway Twitty "It's Only Make Believe" 5
1959 Emile Ford & The Checkmates "What Do You Want to Make Those Eyes at Me For?" 6
1960 Cliff Richard & The Shadows "I Love You" 2
1961 Danny Williams "Moon River" 2
1962 Elvis Presley "Return to Sender" 3
1963 The Beatles "I Want to Hold Your Hand" 5
1964 The Beatles "I Feel Fine" 5
1965 The Beatles "Day Tripper" / "We Can Work It Out" 5
1966 Tom Jones "Green Green Grass of Home" 7
1967 The Beatles "Hello, Goodbye" 7
1968 The Scaffold "Lily the Pink" 3
1969 Rolf Harris "Two Little Boys" 6
1970 Dave Edmunds "I Hear You Knocking" 6
1971 Benny Hill "Ernie (The Fastest Milkman in the West)" 4
1972 Little Jimmy Osmond "Long Haired Lover From Liverpool" 5
1973 Slade "Merry Xmas Everybody" 5
1974 Mud "Lonely This Christmas" 4
1975 Queen "Bohemian Rhapsody" 9
1976 Johnny Mathis "When A Child Is Born (Soleado)" 3
1977 Wings "Mull of Kintyre" / "Girls' School" 9
1978 Boney M "Mary's Boy Child" / "Oh My Lord" 4
1979 Pink Floyd "Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2)" 5
1980 St Winifred's School Choir "There's No-one Quite Like Grandma" 2
1981 The Human League "Don't You Want Me" 5
1982 Renée and Renato "Save Your Love" 4
1983 The Flying Pickets "Only You" 5
1984 Band Aid "Do They Know It's Christmas?" 5
1985 Shakin' Stevens "Merry Christmas Everyone" 2
1986 Jackie Wilson "Reet Petite" 4
1987 Pet Shop Boys "Always on My Mind" 4
1988 Cliff Richard "Mistletoe and Wine" 4
1989 Band Aid II "Do They Know It's Christmas?" 3
1990 Cliff Richard "Saviour's Day" 1
1991 Queen "Bohemian Rhapsody" / "These Are the Days of Our Lives" 5
1992 Whitney Houston "I Will Always Love You" 10
1993 Mr Blobby "Mr Blobby" 2
1994 East 17 "Stay Another Day" 5
1995 Michael Jackson "Earth Song" 6
1996 Spice Girls "2 Become 1" 3
1997 Spice Girls "Too Much" 2
1998 Spice Girls "Goodbye" 1
1999 Westlife "I Have A Dream" / "Seasons in the Sun" 4
2000 Bob The Builder "Can We Fix It?" 3
2001 Robbie Williams & Nicole Kidman "Somethin' Stupid" 3
2002 Girls Aloud "Sound of the Underground" 4
2003 Michael Andrews & Gary Jules "Mad World" 3
2004 Band Aid 20 "Do They Know It's Christmas?" 4
2005 Shayne Ward "That's My Goal" 4
2006 Leona Lewis "A Moment Like This" 4
2007 Leon Jackson "When You Believe" 3
2008 Alexandra Burke "Hallelujah" 3
2009 Rage Against the Machine "Killing in the Name"[7]

the best being: 1981 The Human League "Don't You Want Me"

Fucking Cliff Richard. I hated Misletoe & Wine in 1988 and I've hated it ever since and I have to hear it every December over and over and over again.

1986 Jackie Wilson "Reet Petite" 4

Isn't this song like from the 50s or something? How did it make to #1 in 1986?

possibly it is just a combination of the UK singles market being as big as it is (so people are aware that it can generate this kind of buzz now and then - the charts generally may matter more to people here than in any other country, this kind of thing happens here because it CAN) and a vaguer sense of trying to redefine or establish new re-affirming traditions in a territory many feel is stagnant/complacent when it comes to upholding traditions generally (could be related to a wider multi vs mono cultural battle in society, even decline of Christian influence - see also nobody really making records ABOUT Christmas anymore, or at least being successful with them). a lot of wilful/rose-tinted nostalgia going on imo tho.

1979 Pink Floyd "Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2)"

Closest one in spirit to RATM? You never get this one on Christmas hits tapes either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Wilson
Wilson scored a posthumous hit when "Reet Petite" reached number one in the United Kingdom in 1986. This success was likely due in part to a new animated video made for the song, featuring a clay model of Wilson, that became hugely popular on television.

Okay, but that doesn't explain why someone made a new music video for a 30 year old song.

I mean, this was 20 years before Youtube, back then you couldn't just make an amateur music video at home and expect it to become popular.

also competition between the major labels to have the christmas number 1, this time of the year is reflected in the highest sales figures for singles - so there be competition between mainstream artists to release a single in December - to generate maximum sales for the major labels.

jeans adverts

There was a thing called MTV, Tuomas.

mtv ever inspire something as grate as chocolate rain?

Don't think Reet Petite was from an advert, although old stuff certainly was in vogue at that time because of the 501's adverts, so it it did just fit in sonically.

There was a thing called MTV, Tuomas

Who had MTV in Britain in 1986?

There was a strange trend in the mid-80s for re-releasing hits from the 50s/early 60s. As Nick has said, that Nick Kamen jeans advert kicked it off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reet_Petite

"The song was reissued in 1986 following the showing of a clay animation video on the BBC Two documentary series Arena.[2]"

chart show?

quantick's twitfit is kind of embarrassing. is this result *really* 'duller' than another effing crap x-fact song winning?

Oh good, an unpleasant, unfestive song that nobody liked when it came out is number one. Thanks, fun eaters.

yeah, wasn't joe-mac's song WONDERFULLY FESTIVE and so memorable and, uh, pleasant -- because that's what pop music is all about, pleasantness -- it's no surprise people like it and will be playing it for christmases to come oh fucking yes.

ne way to hate (on) ratm's victory is to hate (on) pop music.

Quantick is an unfunny contrarian old prick.

no, no, yes, maybe

it's not a victory for pop music as such (if it had been a new great pop song then maybe). it will probably be used as evidence of a general 90s revival in the mainstream, beyond bands reforming as they have been doing and a few pretty weak attempts at rave revival). the way it happened was interesting and quite fun but it's not something that can be repeated really either, so whether it will change the charts long-term i dunno (expect many failed attempts, similar to ones before all this e.g. NME's 'God Save The Queen' thing or that stupid 'Roll With It' one).

repeating it would be pretty lame... all depends on context though.

Yeah, the "problem" with people trying to repeat the feat will be inability to get a consensus tune. "Killing" is enough of an old standard, plus the "fuck you" bit, plus the mounting sense of occasion involved in fucking S. Cowell, to make this happen. But most Campaign for Real Music kind of bands probly don't have enough fans who care to make this happen on the regular. The whole Rage campaign has worked because it's a coalition that covered a lot of bases.

The worst outcome of this will be if I have to see the tedious bell-end who started this talking on the TV about his interesting opinions on what constitutes proper music. But I'm off work so I probly won't see Breakfast TV this week so with a bit of luck I should be okay.

i probably enjoy this more than most ilxors by not really having much exposure to radio/tv.

I don't see that much telly but I listen to the radio a lot.

I can definitely see the funny in all this it's just that the unreflective rockism plus "let's all join a flashmob" aspect of the Rage campaign are v. much not my thing. I like "Killing" much more as a song.

if I have to see the tedious bell-end who started this talking on the TV about his interesting opinions on what constitutes proper music

he was on News 24 earlier. tbh no antipathy, i just envy his position and organisational skills a bit.

Dude essentially beat Cowell in a marketing competition, so fair enuff.

next year:

Killing Joke - Love Like Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVgMEsMZdcQ

You're starting your campaign too soon IMO.

No, next year:

Merzbow - Spiral Blast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlGh_okr5nI

2011:

Throbbing Gristle - We Hate You Little Girls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33HsgEO7NlQ

2012:

Paul Nicholas - Dancing with the Captain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPrQ9r52zQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0iOnSON-o0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU

Quantick is an unfunny contrarian old prick

Shite: he's totally fucking nailed this.

And if it's your so fave song how come you forgot to make it anytime in the last 20 years? Unimaginative, mental-uniform wearing dullards

It's a negative, snobbish, imagination-hating, crowdfearing, anti-pleasure gesture

... and most perceptively of all:

If something you don't like is unimaginative it doesn't make you imaginative. Where's your alternative X Factor? Where's your anything?

Poor old Killing In The Name Of -- a really quite good song ruined for me the first time round by so many cuntwits in my sixth-form thinking that the mere act of listening to it made them EDGY and HARD; and now by association with a campaign of such grindingly small-minded cretinhood as to make me want to block up my ears for ever.

That said: the utilitarian in me can't help but be cheered by the Shelter thing, so hey. A small silver lining.

Can I count on your support for Merzbow 2010 grimly?

I'm trying to keep Killing Joke off the top spot.

spiral blast is a dope piece of aural scummage

It's a negative, snobbish, imagination-hating, crowdfearing, anti-pleasure gesture

dude should chillax

Sorry, Noodle: I'll be too busy repping for CUNTS by GRIMLY AND THE CUNTS, which will be a recording of me lugubriously intoning the word "CUNTS" for three and a half minutes, supported by a supremely self-righteous and humourless social-media-based campaign. Come on, ya cunts, it's only a bit of harmless fun ...

... oh, that clattering noise you hear is a load of working musicians putting down their instruments and going: "Fuck this."

hey grimly take a chill pill

Okay but don't blame me if we split the vote and Cliff Richard's cover of "Killing in the Name" gets in.

mark ronson's remix of the james mcavoy samsung superfast commercial imo

Think it wd mash-up nicely with "Wired for Sound" tbh.

"Walkin' around with a head full of music
Cassette in my pocket and I'm gonna use it
Fuck you I won't do what you tell me
I recorded this in a small industrial slum in Surrey btw"

I might start a facebook campaign for this, should really confuse the fuckers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn06NJzYQc4

BUN DEM BAD MAN

You used to be able to kick a paedophile in the street

quite disappointed by quantick's totally off-base ranting (and most of it could just as easily be applied to joe-buyers)

otoh refreshing to see a writer/comedy figure on my twitter feed who is actually against it (many comics have been cheerleading for RATM all week)

SCowell should totally do a Rage night on next year's X Factor. Also does anybody know how many last year's Xmas no. 1 sold? Has this year's kerfuffle driven Joe's sales up?

and most of it could just as easily be applied to joe-buyers

Er, yeh, exactly! I think that's his point (it's certainly mine).

if by that you mean it's anger at people thinking they're superior to the 'opposition'...that seems to be mutual

opening week sales for Alex Burke last year roughly 576,000 so Joe's only done slightly worse

Alexandra's was probably the best winner's song though, which helped. Leon managed 275k

Whether d/ling from a large corporation a product owned by a large corporation is sticking it to the man or is motivated by an adolescent viz-style humour at getting something sweary in the charts all seems to overlook that fact that The Climb was a really tedious record.

The anti-Cowell aspect of this flash mob, and the multiple accidents that mob took to coalesce at the right spot are one thing - but the real story (for pop music fans, rather that new media marketing types) is why not enough people bought The Climb. The X factor singles had been scaring away a lot of competition in recent years, other acts fixing the release schedules not to compete, but there had usually been a few popular songs, or things catching the public imagination (what year was that JCB song number two?) and the x-factor beats them by selling more records.

I can't find any comparisons with the total sales for each x-factor single to tell if Joe would have hit number one in previous years with a less focussed competition (and not sure how to compare it each year either with the way downloads have changed the market) but the one thing we do know - that isn't speculation on the narrative of motivation to purchase the tracks - is that not enough people bought The Climb.

I don't know if it was that Cowell is complacent and disdainful of his audience, or maybe he genuinely thought The Climb was a work of great merit. And its been really notable in all the discussions here that people may rant on about hating RATM because twats in indie discos liked them 15 years ago, but nobody in this thread has actually raved about The Climb.

I love reality TV music contests, though I'm getting fed up of the way the focus of the music is getting narrower (where it all sounds like it wants to be in High School Musical - nothing wrong with that, but there's a lot wrong with it only being that).

So why was The Climb picked as the song - it seems that this is the interesting choice to understand, because its the choice that will impact a lot of future pop music (one way or another, depending on whether Cowell thinks his failure to make no 1 was important and whether he realises it has his song choice that lost it).

I suspect "The Climb" was chosen as it became increasingly likely that Joe would win the show. His problems as a straight-up pop star have been discussed elsewhere, so I guess it's possible that in this case Cowell has been thinking that marketing him as a Disney Musicals kind of guy might be the way to go. Thing is that market isn't fantastic as a singles-selling proposition anyway, I don't think.

surely this is the right answer for 2kX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-SRK02jdA&feature=related

hahahaha otm

but nobody in this thread has actually raved about The Climb

For me, largely because I've not even (knowingly) heard it! Part of this is perhaps because I can't stand reality-TV music contests so pay no attention; another is because when I read about it a few weeks back and saw the words "Hannah" and "Montana", I thought: this is a song that will have about as much relevance to my life right now as ... umm, a reheated re-hash of Killing In The Name Of.

You've almost certainly got a very good point there, Sandy. But until I've heard the thing, I wouldn't know :)

Tell you what, though: I think I'm going to watch The X Factor next year because I genuinely want to have a better handle on all this shit.

Didn't watch xfactor this year because they all seemed a bit rub w/ lil personality and jedward just not funny

at least eggnog was a good comedy villain to hate on last year cos we all love trying to make kids cry

Fucking Cliff Richard. I hated Misletoe & Wine in 1988 and I've hated it ever since and I have to hear it every December over and over and over again.

― FIFA Brutish & Short (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Sunday, 20 December 2009 19:52 (2 hours ago) Bookmark

Particularly annoying bit of that song: where Cliff does some ad-libbing towards the end.

as said upthread i would be surprised if The Climb does not topple RATM next week. tho would be funnier/better if Bad Romance returned to the top.

and Jedward would've sold a million downloads this week.

'Killing In The Name' was a pretty funny choice, they pulled it off and won't outstay their welcome, and x-factor is boring as hell. What's not to like? It depresses me to hear people playing the contrarian instead of just enjoying a genuinely amusing one-off.

and Jedward doing Killing in the name of would sell 2 million, (b side - smells like Teen Spirit)

Actually was it Miss Frank who were the made up group with the latino rapping woman in them? They would do an ace version of Killing, removing the clunky metal riffing and turning the lopside pace into a lovely dubsteppy-skank

For me, largely because I've not even (knowingly) heard it!

Isn't that telling too? There was no avoiding previous years winning song, blaring out of the radio, shops, pubs and TV shows. Indeed I can't think of hearing it again either.

Oh and Ollies version was awful so I agree it was obviously chosen for him.

playing the contrarian

Er, yes, because there was nothing "contrarian" about the entire RATM campaign, was there? It was just that several thousand people suddenly had the same idea to buy the same superannuated early-nineties single: yes, I see.

genuinely amusing

Yes. My sides.

Isn't that telling too?

Absolutely! Although I'm not sure what the deal is here: whether it's not being played as much and I've genuinely not heard it, or whether I have heard it but it's just left no impression. Either way: not ideal, is it?

Ismael OTM.

Christ's teeth. It's Noel Edmond's world and I obviously live in it :(

Cheer up, Grimly, it's CHRISTMAS!

Or Noel Edmonds's, even. Either way: some sub-rag-week japester who thinks that wacky flashmobbing = "achievement".

xpost :)

http://tops68.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/aniseed-humbug.jpg

this wont lead to a bunch of awful british bands who sound like rage against the machine will it?

i'm all for the lols but the aftermath of "omg yay REAL music" is already making me want to punch my facebook page.

I doubt that it's going to result in some kind of "real music made with real instruments" movement.

this is all so very lame

but nothing is lamer than this

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=240028246281&ref=search&sid=283600051.2147476536..1

i have heard 'the climb' though i could not hum it. i never knowingly did hear alexandra burke's or leon jackson's. horses for courses innit.

it would be sort of funny (maybe) if gary numan's 'cars'* or d:ream's unmentionably shit new labour anthem were fbook'd to #1 at election time.

*the first no. 1 of the thatcher era iirc.

quantick's twitfit is kind of embarrassing.

i found it really snide and really snobbish, he came off like a dickhole.

So, there it is: One finger in the eye of Simon. Well, OK, maybe a picture of simon.

Yeah, it would have been better if Jeff Buckley had overtaken Alexandra last year, but a lol has been established, Joe will get his number one next week, and the world will continue on its axis.

parody version of popism, really, equivalent of backing westlife in 1999 on grounds that... other people like it. people who don't *must* be awful snobbish studenty types (ie, yes, the types that read and enjoy writers like david quantick). part of the point of reading swells or quantick was to see dreadful indie types (ie Other NME Readers) hit over the head with frying pans. because it's funny. but if you get to the point of saying any old shit is good because it's popular, you may as well be simon cowell.

xpost

i think this is a much funnier result than jeff buckley winning.

Oh, undoubtably.

In fact, Jbuck making number two was fine, all involved won, all was happy.

as (I think) I said upthread, if Simon had found another song that deserved hit status like "Hal" and imposed that one one Joe (oh, and Ollie and Stacey who will be nursing their souvenir copies), then this whole Rage (in both senses of the word) would have been avoided.

OK, signing off, next thread?

Nah, hang on, two things:

a lol has been established

NO IT HASN'T! If someone can explain to me -- and remember, I have a pretty low humour threshold: I still subscribe to Viz, for fuck's sake -- what is remotely amusing about any of this, please do. It's just ... pointless. Annoyingly so.

but if you get to the point of saying any old shit is good because it's popular

I really don't think that's what he's saying, though! I think it's more a sheer, head-slapping frustration at this absurdly gleeful LOOK WHAT WE'VE DONE! AREN'T WE CLEVER! attitude from the RATM camp. No, you're not: this is as a tiny drop of piss to a vast ocean, and has absolutely fuck all to do with music, you platinum-plated stroking machines.

all involved won, all was happy

apart from those who preferred the leonard cohen version

I have a pretty low humour threshold: I still subscribe to Viz, for fuck's sake -- what is remotely amusing about any of this, please do. It's just ... pointless. Annoyingly so.

you're coming to this without any real interest in either the charts or X-Factor tho right?

Got it in one ... although, well, I care about the charts to a tiny extent. A tiny one. Still not sure what the LARF I'm missing might be, though ...

people are amused by the idea of a song containing "fuck you" being #1 (and the swearing here is more blatant than on James Blunt 'You're Beautiful') plus general incongruousness of the song being a hit at Xmas.

and by the idea of annoying Cowell, quite simply.

Oh, it's definitely funny. And such a well chosen song. Defiant and willfully offensive, but with mass appeal. I find the whole thing very amusing and not a little gratifying - not for reasons of musical integrity or whatever, rather for reasons of keeping things fun and unpredictable and interesting.

is there swearing on 'you're beautiful'?!?!?!1one?

Yes, it isn't really that complicated and it is quite amusing. (xposts)

xposts lol i knew mayne would be quizzing that Blunt thing

i mean musically i wouldn't say its giant douche vs turd sandwich really - maybe instead of a turd its some overcooked dried out turkey past its sell by date, but still.

She could see from my face that I was,
Flying high, ( - video/radio edited version)
Fucking high, ( - CD version)

FWIW I would have been equally happy to buy a download of I've Got A Brand New Combine Harvester to de-X Factor the number one spot and annoy Simon Cowell, and there's no 'fuck you'-ing going on in that.

The fuck thing would be pretty amusing if it hadn't already been done by Eamonn and Frankee and Lily Allen (twice).

fair point, but that shit never gets old for some people clearly.

http://buzz.io/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/banana-peel-slip-up.jpg

Now could someone please explain what's funny about this, because I just don't get it.

these are dreawing a complete blank:

1997 Spice Girls "Too Much" 2
1998 Spice Girls "Goodbye" 1
1999 Westlife "I Have A Dream" / "Seasons in the Sun" 4

xpost

lily allen is about 50m x worse than ratm.

I honestly think Killing in the Name is still a great song.

i just hate lily allen beyong reason

That's a perfectly reasonable position.

charlie brooker weighs in:

But then nobody's buying The Climb in order to actually listen to it. They're buying it out of sedated confusion, pushing a button they've been told will make them feel better. It's the sound of the assisted suicide clinic, and it doesn't deserve to be No 1 this Christmas.

This isn't mere pop snobbery, by the way. I'd rather see Girls Aloud at No 1 than Editors. But The Climb is a lame cover version of a lame Miley Cyrus song. If X Factor can't be arsed to do better than that, its grip on the yuletide charts deserves to be broken.

people are amused by the idea of a song containing "fuck you" being #1

OK. More people need to subscribe to Viz, clearly.

Now could someone please explain what's funny about this, because I just don't get it

Certainly. Expectation, anticipation, schadenfreude and -- in this instance -- the exaggerated riffing on a theme all play a role; however, I'd probably refer you in this instance to Boyd (2004), who I think actually deals with the banana-skin joke in some detail.

I'd say "your turn now" but Blueski beat you to it with a perfectly eloquent post, so hey. I'll leave you to get on with reading Boyd. Have fun!

Brooker might well have a point about the lameness of the single, although Sandy's post above is a somewhat more considered take on it. But, er:

But then nobody's buying The Climb in order to actually listen to it. They're buying it out of sedated confusion, pushing a button they've been told will make them feel better

... yes, remind me how all these fanatical RATM fans suddenly had the same idea on the same day again?

ooh, split infinitive. nagl, charlie. nagl.

Tom said it best on FT re the X-Factor single just being a memento for those who care enough about the winner's story - similar to charity records (which KITN also effectively is ha). I just don't get the mentality of that (and I still think it's different to the day when people wouldn't hear a cult band's new single til the day it came out because they still had the 'i loved the previous single' element plus being able to "discover" the act for themselves in most cases).

yrs, massive rockist

I just don't get the mentality of that

"Music for people who don't particularly like music", innit? But I have a feeling that's the same for an awful lot of the people buying RATM -- this time round, certainly.

charity records

I keep having to remind myself that, from a utilitarian point of view, this is a GOOD RESULT, so hey. Merry Christmas, Tiny Tim.

We all know it wasn't down to fanatical RATM fans (if such a thing exists any more), it was people most of whom probably quite liked the song, and all of whom thought it was entertainingly subversive to make it xmas number 1.

xpost - this whole thing doesn't have all that much to do with with actual music

But I have a feeling that's the same for an awful lot of the people buying RATM -- this time round, certainly

Actually, no: that's not right. Scratch that. "Music for people who really don't have any right to be quite so snobbish about other people's tastes" is better for the RATM crew.

I, of course, am an equal-opportunities snob, looking down [1] with the same contempt on everyone involved in this sorry farrago.

[1] Or up, as we short-arses tend to.

this whole thing doesn't have all that much to do with with actual music

Yes. Well put!

all involved won, all was happy

apart from those who preferred the leonard cohen version

― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 20 December 2009 23:49 (Yesterday) Bookmark

36 Leonard Cohen Hallelujah Dec 2008

Actually, is that the only time a song has appeared on the chart in three different versions?

i know it charted but the point is some people would've rather it had done better than buckley's and burke's versions

or if you're like me they'd all flopped

Grimly OTM, though I'm really sick of talking about it by this point. At least it's over with now (...?)

it was people most of whom probably quite liked the song, and all of whom thought it was entertainingly subversive to make it xmas number 1.

How could this be subversive when there's a half-million people involved? I fail to see how this is any different than Improv Everywhere or some other flash mob nonsense.

At least make Jandek top ten or something

gotta stay realistic (if Jandek was used for the next Dairy Milk advert maybe)

nothing is subversive when it comes to the british xmas number one

this is all shit. everything is shit. everyone involved is eating or producing or rolling in shit. cowell especially. but if i do have a capacity for despite, it is being exercised right now

tonight has taught me that i actually kinda like killing in the name. thank you hideous flashmob types.

lol britain. never change.

admittedly my own perspective on this hasn't been helped by my utter loathing for RATM's music (even if they had right-on politics or w/e)

i have been lucky to avoid them (and i gues their fans) up until now, so am just enjoying this for being a bit dumb and obnoxious and then to never listen to it again.

What's next for Rage Against The Machine fans? I suggest they all protest against Cowell by simultaneously hanging themselves

Hit them where it hurts

Maybe now that people are buying downloads rather than physical cd singles, X Factor singles which were previously bought as souvenirs or Christmas presents are only going to find themselves becoming more obsolete.

idk it could go the other way. downloads will just be like txt votes to some people - they'll spend more/buy more copies because it's more practical to do so than it was before. interesting times for the valuation of/on 'the single'.

The two people I know who seemed invested in this (sent me RATM-group facebook invites, updated statuses etc) are both indie-ish 14 y/os I taught at boarding school: the whole thing I suspect means a lot to them - X-Factor represents a monoculture they do encounter, and which does think they're weird; people who like RATM are a minority, and do always have to make up for it by caring more. Louis I am surprised you of all people can't look back on feeling like that and enjoy this moment!

enjoy? Louis?

charlie brooker weighs in:

But then nobody's buying The Climb in order to actually listen to it. They're buying it out of sedated confusion, pushing a button they've been told will make them feel better. It's the sound of the assisted suicide clinic, and it doesn't deserve to be No 1 this Christmas.

And the difference between this and people buying RATM is?

We really don't know why people are buying it. Mostly, it's because there's a lot of people who are exposed to very little music. If you're not exposed to a lot of different things, you might think this stuff is good. Or maybe some people just like it.

The RATM campaign is very much a rockist movement. It's a protest in favour of "authentic" "rebellious" music and against "manufactured" "inauthentic" music.

but a lot of people haven't really bought into it for those reasons, more a lolzier of two evils thing

lol my younger brother just revealed he bought the RATM single, saying that yeah he thought it was shit but 20p to help prevent Cowell's gang going top? sure!

my own stance is that it doesn't matter whether cowell goes top because the whole thing is a shitstorm of bad culture and to participate in that discourse is to validate it for oneself, hence i called my brother a tosser even as he laughed at my impassioned vituperations

and yeah i can see how for an earnest young music-lover this WOULD matter as an example of a corporate system being taken down by the will of the people or w/e but tbh a) it's ALL 'will of the people' and b) the battle is over who wants to hoard the biggest pile of shit! genuine subversion doesn't involve the charts. it involves the propagation of confrontational art along establishment channels, sure, but not channels which define themselves through common consent. subversion is a ghost in a machine, not the machine itself.

i'd make the same argument if it was a song i liked, although less violently.

No, I think you have it about right.

The general consensus seems to be "SCowell/Xfactor is a good thing because it draws a separation from the 'commercial' and the, um, uncommercial..."

After years of the Oasis established "one week at 15 is now no longer good enough" which ended up with no weeks at number anything, it's time to rebuild.

worst thing about all of this is how much of a back seat the actual music's taken in the uh "discourse", even w/every fucker talking about nothing else there's been little discussion of either SONG. hate the way that they have to "stand for something", whether some misguided idea that buying RATM will put cowell in his place or some bizarre notion that record buyers should mother joe mcelderry to no 1 because aw he's so sweet. barf.

as i said before i'm probably happier that RATM got it: the entire RATM campaign was so empty and dumb that it won't have any concrete effect on anything (maybe they'll be able to command a higher fee for festivals i don't care about but whatevz), and the demise of that weedy, insipid mcelderry's career will hopefully be hastened. i like to think of it as a judgment on how shit this series of xfactor has been.

re: xfactor - why isn't the winner's debut single their signature/best cover from over the course of the series? ie a song that they're already emotionally invested in and that there's genuine public demand for, rather than nothingy gloop. leona's "summertime" or alexandra's "unbreak my heart" would have both been more-than-decent singles.

I assume Stacey's "Who wants to live forever" will figure in her future plans.

Simon Cowell? Is this the same guy that's on American Idol? If so, fuck him!

Yes.

"American Idol" started as "Pop Idol" over here.

fwiw I will pay the x factor 0.00000 mind until it stipulates that contestants must write their own songs

re: xfactor - why isn't the winner's debut single their signature/best cover from over the course of the series?

Weirdly this goes right back to Pop Idol - Will getting "Gareth's song" and so Gareth getting to release Unchained Melody with Evergreen on the B-side anyway!

fwiw I will pay the x factor 0.00000 mind until it stipulates that contestants must write their own songs

didn't this already happen w/a different programme? and that was total shit too.

Does anyone remember "Get your act together" ?

(night night)

we had a thread, yeah! it was established that this other programme turned out to be a haven for shitty landfill indie. i'm talking a programme for singer-songwriters! and a ban on anybody sounding like jack johnson or paolo nutini.

might've been more fun if the x-factor song was considered better by more people, but they're never going to start someone off with an original song (e.g. a Bleeding Love which is smart marketing or cowardly bullshit or both) and the covers are never actually good. but you can't really object to this on the 'not another bloody cover version' when this time it wasn't even a well known song and the alternative is 'another bloody hit song from the past'.

the whole 'it doesn't matter because they're both/its all shit' is a cul-de-sac so what i do like is that it got me thinking about recent hit songs that reflected genuine anger (and not at a specific person e.g. spurned lover/you cheated on me etc.), or rather the lack of them...maybe even 'how anger went out of fashion/was squeezed out of the charts this decade' as a thing.

were none of the songs from last year's erykah badu album hits?

i support combining a less-stupid version of X-Factor with actual unsigned bands sharing the floorspace Later WIth Jools style, battling it out for a deal via judges and public vote). stop making out like bands don't go thru such contrived processes already. decent range of genres but still "pop" (and not really excluding anything).

that sounds like a good idea! i don't make any such pretences. look at glasvegas, for god's sake.

a show like that wouldn't necessarily generate better music but it would encourage musical performance and get people interested in that not JUST singing and dancing. a big part of the problem is that Cowell and co finds actual musicians, bands and instruments dirty vulgar clutter or that ultimately 'the public' care less about those things than just the singing and dancing.

the worsest thing about this is that people watching xfactor are helping keep itv afloat

blueski and frogman's latest posts are both violently OTM :)

stop making out like bands don't go thru such contrived processes already.

Yes, but so do 'pop singers', especially regarding the "Pop Idol" / "Pop Stars" shows, constituent parts of a 'pop group' are auditioned based purely on their singing ability and their 'personality'.

Now, it's sort of metamorphosised into what it is now, the addition of 'public voting' and 'judges' has made it more of a show regarding (if not about) the judges.

It's like the London Marathon, everyone can enter but the only ones that have a chance of winning is 'the ones that can'.

The show described above already happened, OrangeAct UnsignedMobile or whatever it was called. It was not a good thing.

As several have mentioned, hopefully this might at least inspire some more effort going into X Factor winners' songs in future. The last time the winners of the equivalent faced some competition, we got Sound of the Underground after all.

loving the wikipedia entry for bleeding love:

"Bleeding Love" is a pop song with R&B undertones set in the key of F major. It moves at 104 bpm and is set in 4/4 time. The album version runs for four minutes and twenty-two seconds and the radio edit runs for four minutes and one second. Lewis performs (A5) during the final chorus, and (D4) during each verse. The range of the song for her version is 1 1/2 octaves.[18] "Bleeding Love" is constructed in the common verse-chorus-bridge song pattern. It employs a church organ which is audible throughout the song until the bridge. Synthesized strings are also prominent throughout the song, which intermittently integrates wood block percussion throughout the track. A heavy, distorted marching band-like drum loop backs the song.[19] The song employs an interesting yet subtle harmonic shift beginning at the bridge. A harmonic shift or harmonic variety generally identifies most song bridges. What is special in "Bleeding Love" is that the turn around from the common I, VI, IV, V (F, Dm, Bb, C) progression used exclusively up to the bridge for both verses and choruses shifts to focus on the relative minor: VI, IV, I/V, V (Dm, Bb, F/C, C). The darker quality of superimposing the second half of the verse, as well as the final chorus over this VI chord progression, in addition to resolving the song on this relative minor, enhances the intensity of the pain and pathos of the song.

OrangeAct UnsignedMobile or whatever really v bad and awful

What does it mean? Well for starters it's a warning shot across the bow that Simon Cowell can no longer abuse his monopoly over ITV and the charts by rigging the xmas no.1

I bought the RATM track for this point because it has at least got originality and meaning to the song, not a rehash and a short term means to make cash for Cowell.

Not all of us are x factor sheep!!!

[druid2002], UK

Recommended by 137 people

The RATM campaign is very much a rockist movement. It's a protest in favour of "authentic" "rebellious" music and against "manufactured" "inauthentic" music.

― kuriousoranj, Monday, December 21, 2009 1:39 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

man, i sure hope john kerry wins the presidency! how about this second series of 'peep show', huh.

SD1000

21 Dec 2009, 12:40AM

Good article, but really Charlie, 'Killing in the Name' is not a good song.

He doesn't sound pissed off at all - he "howls" the refrain in tune with the music for christ's sake!

^is this rockist or anti-rockist? Advice plz

SD1000, more like sb x 1000

It sounds like Louis Walsh!

AWWW!HHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

― conner Smedley (gsc660), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:38 (6 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Nice howling, here's to your Xmas no. 1 next year!

werewolves of london for xmas number one!

lol i'd actually consider getting behind that one. but it'll never happen, so i can say that.

Dude essentially beat Cowell in a marketing competition, so fair enuff.

A wee bit of me hopes Cowell offers him a highly paid job to test his anti-X-Factor convictions.

What's next for Rage Against The Machine fans?

There's been a (small) protest in Parliament Square this morning - agianst what I'm not sure. Their sign says "RAGE AGAINST COP 15" (I think) with the COP15 bit inside a left-pointing arrow. Anyway, they've been blasting out RATM songs - mostly "Killing In The Name" and "Bullet In The Head" - all morning.

What hath Zack wrought?

COP15 was the Copenhagen conference. If people are going to go out and protest against the useless outcome of that, then I'm all for it. Hope there's going to be a wider protest than just the one under the RATM banner though.

"RAGE AGAINST COP 15"

Yeah, cop N. Hagen.

good luck uk

cheers

Onimo's Christmas wish comes true...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopmusic/6855268/X-Factor-Simon-Cowell-offers-Christmas-number-one-couple-a-job.html

haha oh shit hope they take it and he gotchas their rockist credentials and tells them to fuck off

oh, they turned him down. Shoulda read before posting.

In other news Zack de la Rocha has agreed to be a judge on Strictly Come Dancing.

I'd take a job at SyCo.

http://www.filmforum.org/films/fallen/fallenhead.jpg

http://www.joemcelderry.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=3a7321c7354fb151942ace1261cda19b&topic=1172.15..

posts by 'admin' on here are things of wonder

Admin

It does look very much like rage have won. Betting odds and the way they cheated last night.

I will make 2 points.

1 its against chart rules what they have done, so its possible the charts can just wipe out so many thousand of their bulk buying or just kick them out for cheating and manipulating the vote.

2 if Joe has come second he will still have sold around 500,000 copies of his single, he will have gained a lot of exposure, and he will have only been beaten by the biggest load of crap ever in the charts.

The exposure Joe will have had over this money cannot buy. He wont lose any fans over this and he may gain more.

No point being sad or upset. General disorder, chaos, anarchy and people who bully and hate to get their own way beating Joe... It isnt Joes, yours or my fault.

Lets hope the Chart company sling RATM out. Their behaviour from start to finish is disgusting and those behind the campaign deserve to be brought to task for public order offences. If they dont they are allowing bulk buying and also sanctioning this countrys neanderthals to just do what they like when they dont like something. I dont like that future at all.

chinatown.jpg

sanctioning this countrys neanderthals to just do what they like when they dont like something

confusing "do" with "buy", easily done.

“Rage Against the Machine is honored to have been drafted by this historic grassroots campaign to make our song ‘Killing in the Name’ the No. 1 song on the UK Christmas Week pop chart. This is a huge victory by and for fans of real music and we extend our heartfelt thanks to every fan and freedom fighter who helped make our anthem of defiance and rebellion the Anarchy Christmas Miracle of 2009.

“As promised we will play a free concert in the UK in celebration of this incredible upset victory over the heavily favored X-Factor single. We are also pleased that so much money has been raised for homeless charity Shelter and are happy to donate as well to aid this important cause. While there are many lessons that can be drawn from this historic upset, the main one is this: that ordinary people, banding together in solidarity, can change ANYTHING, be it the pop charts or the world.”

I haven't been at all invested in who went to number one, really not fussed either way, but the posts from 'Admin' have made me so happy that RATM beat Joe.

Key word "as it stands"

The charts will have been contacted by the goverment and ordered to make Joe number 1

or public order could just have been destroyed for life in this country.

sorry if someone posted that. this thread is long.

"While there are many lessons that can be drawn from this historic upset, the main one is this: that ordinary people, banding together in solidarity, can change ANYTHING, be it the pop charts or... um, the pop charts!”

.. for at least 1 week. Or is that "at most" ?

didn't realise this Jon Morter guy tried to run the same scheme last year with Rick Astley's 'Never Gonna Give You Up'

First they ignore you, then you win.

the REET PETITE / jackie wilson claymation video clip was first shown on ths: http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/301729 'video jukebox'
an all night seven hour marathon / history of video clips with self conatined segements from directors like winner and temple and pop stars like bowie and had narration/ links by john peel and john walters.
we've talked about it on ilx before i'm sure but it introduced me to the cure, talking heads and donald fagen among others. this was in the days when even a late night bbc2 show would get 3 million viewers so it was a hugely influential bit of telly back in the day.

why am i not that surprised at all :

http://www.2-4-7-music.com/news/news-story.asp?ID=2840

i read that with a vindictive grin

Sony did 9/11

Has the music industry been fixed yet? I haven't been paying enough attention...

define the word 'fixed' ?

to influence the actions, outcome, or effect of by improper or illegal methods [the race had been fixed]

looking at elvis's only other post on this thread i'm not sure he meant it like that

re: fallen idol
BAINES! BAINES! BAINES!

sorry.

popjustice lulz

http://www.popjustice.com/images/stories/j/joestoolpigeon.jpg

Surprised by how happy I was by the RATM result, if only because Simon Cowell's sense of entitlement over the X-Factor's right to the Christmas number one every single year, no matter how bad the pop star or lazy the record, was so enraging.

Hopefully this will inspire some actual pop stars to try and beat them next year. It felt like everyone basically stopped trying for the last few years.

Yeah noone was willing to take x-factor singles on in previous years.
Cowell might try to get revenge on the "biased" BBC though by having the X-Factor final on Xmas Day. ITV usually doesn't care about ratings at xmas leaving the BBC to dominate but after getting 19m viewers for the final they might just move the final to dominate Xmas day TV instead. Prob a lot more money via advertisements in that plus higher viewing figures since most people stay in on Xmas day.
But then again i don't watch ITV and their bad diet of soaps and reality tv anyway.

Aye, I can see all X Factor judges giving up their Christmas Days to sit in a studio making Simon more money. Would it really get more viewers live on Christmas Day - wasn't it one of the (if not THE) most-viewed shows of the year anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/events/ragefactor/

The celebration party!

Free tickets, register, blah blah, etc...

There's no gesture so radical that it cannot be recouped by Reggie twatting Yates.

oh fucking hell this is a hundred yards from my house

Look at it as a business opportunity.

40,000 punters, what are you going to sell them?

"Everybody Hurts" t-shirts.