Like like the the the POLL: SILVER JEWS = American Water

The Late, Great Silver Jews

Silver Jews leader/poet David Berman understands that there's a risk in naming his upcoming album of pensive, literate, country-tinged rock The Late, Great Silver Jews. Still, he doesn't want fans to think that he's hanging up his guns just yet. In fact, he wouldn't have chosen the title if he didn't think that the Jews -- including recently returned guitarist Steve Malkmus of lo-fi alt-rockers Pavement -- still had a few more records up their sleeves.

"It's only good if it's, like, the third record of five," Berman said Thursday, phoning from Brooklyn, N.Y.'s Rare Book Room studio. There, he and his collaborators were wrapping up 22 straight days of rehearsal and recording for the album, the Jews' fourth.
"I guess there's a certain amount of 'Well, no one else is gonna to say it, so we're gonna say it,' " Berman said of the album title. "We're gonna canonize ourselves. We're not gonna wait around for anyone else to say we're great. It's a little funny, it's a little sad, it's a little arrogant."

The album, due out this fall on Chicago's Drag City label, marks the homecoming of Malkmus to the Jews clan. Fans will recall that for 1996's The Natural Bridge album, songwriter Berman amicably parted company with collaborators Malkmus and drummer Bob Nastanovich, also of Pavement, in favor of working with the New Radiant Storm Kings' guitarist Matt Hunter and bassist Peyton Pinkerton. Now both Berman and Malkmus describe their reignited collaboration as a mutually beneficial venture between best friends.

"I wanted a really professional-sounding band, and Steve [Malkmus] is a really good guitarist," the 30-year-old Berman said. "The leads he's playing on this record are to me the best things he's ever done, by far. Very soulful. He's not doing the anti-solos he does with Pavement. They're very beautiful, very talky."

"The songs are pretty traditional arrangements and tunings, and I'm just playing along with it," Malkmus said humbly on a break from the studio. "Pavement songs call for something different. If you played a traditional solo in a Pavement song, it would stick out. But in these songs, there's totally room for it. It's fun to do it tasteful and straight-up, without sounding too much like new country."

That said, Malkmus explained that three or four "really heartbreaking country numbers" form the backbone of the 11-song album. He and Berman have developed a symbiotic creativity, he added, whereby Malkmus brings musical and recording experience to Berman's songwriting expertise.

"It's a lyrical record in the end," the 30-year-old Malkmus said. "It's a record you sing along to. In that way, it's kind-of country. You expect maybe the next melody, but you don't know what [Berman is] going to say. There's a cleverness to do that in a way that's not hacked or generic."

During a brief pause in conversation, the delicate sound of ringing guitar from a song called "Self-Ignition" escaped through a studio door. Berman described the song as a future B-side, explaining that the band had run through the track too quickly for it to make the final cut for the album. "We've never sounded tight like this," Berman said. "There's hard-rocking songs where we've never had that level of intensity before. They're really charged songs."

In addition to Malkmus, Berman also recruited Mike Fellows (ex-Rites of Spring, ex-Royal Trux bass), Tim Barnes (drums) and Chris Stroffolino (piano, keyboards) to help out with the disc, which he intends to issue on Oct. 14. That would be two years to the day after the release of The Natural Bridge, which came exactly two years after 1994's acclaimed Starlite Walker album. Berman added that he hopes the Silver Jews will set out for a rare tour of the U.S. and Europe following the release of the new recording.

Work on the Silver Jews album has precluded Berman from editing his forthcoming collection of poetry -- tentatively titled "Governors On Sominex" -- which he hopes to have out on Open City Press by Christmas. Despite the fact that the book has languished on the back-burner, Berman has said that he's happy to push through the recording process.

"I never worked this hard in my fucking life," he said. "It's really gratifying, because I'm such a lazy lay-about at home, just reading, lying around. So I've had something to do everyday. It's good. It's labor."

Among the songs to be included on The Late, Great Silver Jews are: "Buckingham Rabbit," "Random Rules," "Police Conversation, 1783," "The Wild Kindness," "Blue Arrangements," "Like Like, The The The Death," "People," "Send In The Clouds," "Smith And Jones Forever!" and "Honk If You're Lonely Tonight."

gut feeling says S&J forever. haven't listened to this in S&J forever tho

wait what malkmus and berman are basically MY age????

that article's from '98

"smith & jones forever" - the second mp3 i ever downloaded

boring choice but "random rules" by a mile

#s 5-9 are unfuckwithable imo

you can't change the feeling
but you can change your feelings about the feeling in a second or two
uh huh huh
people always come around...

Rad poll timing. I had "We are Real" in my head yesterday and actually thought "I wonder if that's the best song on American Water"
Couldn't decide tho.

i actually did the titular thing and voted for "like like the the the death." "we are real" and "buckingham rabbit" were strong contenders too.

berman's lyrics are a strong influence on this very slow-going music project i'm concocting. if it ever sees the light of day i'll thank him in the liner notes.

soi-disant roi
they don't want ta

I thought we did this already, but I'll vote for "Random Rules" again for the greatest opening lines of the last 15 years.

'random rules' is the obvious but correct choice.

Yeah. Wild Kindness is #2 for me probably.

that article's from '98

LOL

i am retarded

Send in the Clouds

I am the trick my mother played on the world
Seventeen doctors couldn't decide
whether I should be allowed in the game.

hold the world to its word

Seems weird to me that this was a record made by 30 yr olds somehow

will ride for "people" as it's one of my favorite songs to listen to with a buzz on

blue arrangements looks like it needs a vote.

Seems weird to me that this was a record made by 30 yr olds somehow

― thomp, Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:10 PM Bookmark

In what sense?

The drums march along at the clip of an I.V. drip
like sparks from a muffler dragged down the strip.
I really hope you'll come around.

It's sunny and 75. It feels so good to be alive.
Come on baby don't stay inside.
Everybody's coming out tonight.

also night society is some of malkmus' finest guitar playing on record.

Seems weird to me that this was a record made by 30 yr olds somehow

― thomp, Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:10 PM Bookmark

In what sense?

― pithfork (Hurting 2)

i dunno, actually. i guess the worldview therein works as 'late 20s'. something about the 'just a bunch of guys in a room playing' aesthetics of the sound -- i'd never considered that in relation to how long these guys had been playing music for, before. it's probably just that i heard it as a teenager.

fucking love this record

i know a puppy
who walked from Kentucky
made it to East Virginia by dawn
he had seventeen ideas in his head

Definitely my fave Silver Jews record (though I like the others just fine). This one makes me think of Dylan, but it doesn't sound derivative of him at all. I guess the CD case spine is derivative of Dylan ... or at least Columbia Records. Love Malkmus' guitar on this, as well. I will probably be boring and vote for Random Rules ... Every line is perfect on that song. Sounded great live, too.

i'm trying to think of a bad lyric on this record

haha, yeah, that's true.

people

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i like this better than BTC and TT after a few rescreens

oh no doubt

Random Rules and Smith & Jones v popular with me, but the 'bye, bye, good-bye, bye' in Wild Kindness gets me every time, and was also how I stumbled upon this album, so that.

'Very popular with me'? What sort of f'ing statement is that? I like 'em, is what I mean to say.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

not much water coming over the hill :(

wait, no its send in the clouds

whoever voted for buckingham rabbit is my buddy

self-ignition would have placed sooo high on this had it been an option

i miss the joos :(

this album rules so much

smith & jones 4ever imo

http://www.latinoreview.com/images/upload/1290066077_image_1288420192_image_1278530774_image_meninblacksmall.jpg

^^holding up their pants with extension cords

I had a stoned friend explain to me one night how that song - from the "mustaches caked with airplane glue" to the midnight execution - was about "Men In Black".

hahahahah that must have been one amazing convo

Are you honest, when no one's looking...

Man, just moved back to Virginia and this album has been in constant rotation, along with some spins of "Bright Flight". Just seems to be a Virginian album.

Top 5 album of the nineties. Question: Did Pavement have a better B-side than 'self-ignition'?

I've never heard of Pavement.

Who is the backing band in the Random Rules video during the first chorus?

At first glance I thought it was the Demolition Doll Rods but I don't think that's right...

"Can you summon 'honey' from a telephone? "

took me way too long to give this record a proper try. this is phenomenal.

His best in my humble honest opinion

Search “self ignition” as mentioned upthread

I wish Berman and SM would just grow old making records together.

will do! might just go try the entire discography this afternoon and evening.

VHS – I recommend the LPs which happen to Malkmus on them (not claiming his presence is what makes those stand out, but for whatever reason they do).

Yes, that's what I believe too. Although I did enjoy Lookout Mountain, Lookout Sea a lot than I expected.

Bright Flight might be my fave (coincidentally came out at the height of my Joos fandom), but after that the ones with SM are generally my go-tos.

Natural Bridge is my bummtertime favorite. That's Malkmus-less.

American Water by Silver Jews was first released two decades ago. Observing the time between then and now, the album has been half-speed mastered at Abbey Road to provide depth and nuance for all future vinyl listeners - and current ones! Additionally, a cassette version of this timeless album makes its debut, to provide an alternative aural timestamp for intrepid audio voyagers who weren't there the first time around. You can pre-order both versions NOW for the 9/28 release date. American Water - here's to the next 20 years!

(via Drag City)

That "Blue Arrangements" garnered only ONE VOTE in this poll is a crime for the ages.

And this is emphatically my second or third favorite SJ record. (I wind up in arguments with folks about this now and again.)

haha, i'm not sure i've ever heard anyone ever emphatically claim something as their second or third favorite! but i kind of know what you mean. i will emphatically place it in my top 2!

This is the best SJ rekkid, and not just because SM is all over it

love this record but can't think of any reason why anyone would wanna shell out for an audiophile version of it

Holdin up the trousers with extension cords

Paul — I have “Starlite Walker” on vinyl and the sound is crappy; so maybe the same was true for this album, and the remaster rectifies it(?) I have found Matador / Drag City vinyl from the ‘90s to be poorly mastered...

That makes sense. I just never thought of this as an album I needed to hear in pristine audiophile quality. My CD copy sounds fine! But tbf I've never heard it on vinyl, and 90s DC pressings were notoriously poor quality iirc

Air crickets air crickets air crickets air crickets air

Like sparks from a muffler dragged down the strip, uh huh huh

Why can’t monsters get along with other monsters?

Playin tambourine for minimum wage

People gonna come arrrooooooound

the vinyl version I have of this record is perfectly fine

how has this thread been around for eight years without one of the most unbelievable verses DB ever wrote in it

got 2 tickets for a midnight execution
we'll hitchhike our way from odessa to houston
and when they turn on the chair
something's added to the air
forever

honestly, i thought we had a whole dedicated to that song! but i'm looking now, and don't see one.

a whole thread, i meant.

but yeah, those words will always give me goosebumps. s&j was my intro to silver jews

Huh — I always thought it was, “

...“We hitchhike away from a desolate Houston”

FTR, I think my favorite song on the album is “Like Like The The The Death” — both musically and lyrically (notwithstanding the bum line, “Nobody cares about a dead hooker”)

but yeah, those words will always give me goosebumps. s&j was my intro to silver jews

Here comes the coda

Not much water coming over the hill
Not much, not much, not much
Not much water coming over the hill
Not much, not much, not much

Is there a coda thread? I know Ned has talked eloquently and correctly about New Order's Regret, and that's the greatest thing. But SM's work here is immense. Love this album. Don't think I've seen this thread until today.

The bird of Virginia
Are flying within ya
And like background singers
They all come in threes
And like background singers
They all come in threes

I would've been a "We Are Real" voter because it would fit better on his slightly better album Natural Bridge

from the op:

During a brief pause in conversation, the delicate sound of ringing guitar from a song called "Self-Ignition" escaped through a studio door. Berman described the song as a future B-side, explaining that the band had run through the track too quickly for it to make the final cut for the album. "We've never sounded tight like this," Berman said. "There's hard-rocking songs where we've never had that level of intensity before. They're really charged songs."

did this ever become a song?

Yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W90V4D1P9VY

(It was indeed a B-side, to “Send In The Clouds”)

oh nice, thanks! i know absolutely zero silver jews b-sides

22 years old today. What a beast of a record.

I've got two tickets to a midnight execution
We'll hitchhike our way from Odessa to Houston
And when they turn on the chair
Something's added to the air
When they turn on the chair
Something's added to the air forever

So many strange and fantastic moments on this record. RIP.

My life at home everyday
Drinking coke in a kitchen
with a dog that doesn’t know it’s name

One of my dumbest opinions is that i don’t really fully fuck with this album (despite the openers being 2 of my lifetime favs) bc there’s too much steve malkmis on it and when I put silver jews on its cus I’m in the mood to hear DB

Here's something that's always mystified me: in Buckingham Rabbit, the last line of every stanza is repeated two times, except for "I can track a single bee to the hive." Why?

I want to make a cocktail called a shattered dog on the rocks

Haha same. For maximum authenticity you would need to blow your rent money on the whiskey you use to make the drink

Here's something that's always mystified me: in Buckingham Rabbit, the last line of every stanza is repeated two times, except for "I can track a single bee to the hive." Why?

― J. Sam, Tuesday, November 3, 2020 10:37 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

he's tracking a single bee, not two bees

xps I love the Malk presence on this record; to continue with the cocktail theme, he's like the soda to Berman's straight whiskey, adds lightness/sweetness/delicacy/bubbliness.

I had p much the exact experience as flopson with this record for a long time too, but ive come to appreciate the malkmus presence over the years

I thought I was alone in not digging Malkmus much here! The high points *are* rather high but I nowadays get more excited about the prospect of listening to pretty much any other long-player as a whole album, with the exception of perhaps Tanglewood Numbers.

I adore everything Berman did but American Water yeah

hey there riders on the storm HOLD THE WORLD TO ITS WORD

he's tracking a single bee, not two bees

― glengarry gary beers (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 3, 2020 12:39 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

damn.

the malkmus songs on american water are v good, but they wouldn’t be the best songs on any pavement album and they’re also like, kinda funky? in a way that i just don’t think jibes with dave’s songs

They are funky - and the gtr work at the end of “Blue Arrangements” is sort of the heart of the album for me. This should not be taken as a slight at Berman, but Malk’s presence is core to the SJs sound for me.

I like this one even more than the last two Pavement records--feel like the SJ's w/SM are just a "different" kind of band. I think there are less stinkers for sure on this one. Like on Tanglewood, everything on Side 2 but How Can I love you but you won't lie die down doesn't really work for me. Whereas Side 2 of American Water is all hits. Same with Lookout Mountain, there's def. a drop off on side two.

I dunno I think they brought out the best of each other when they worked together, and I love their harmonizing.

they hit fagen/becker peaks

tbh i think what threw me off about it for so long might just have been SMs vocals, the incongruity of hearing another voice from another well-known band popping up. Silver Jews are one of those bands that feel like an island unto themselves, off in their own sui generis soundworld. Periodically hearing the voice from "Range Life" just felt so strange and spellbreaking

But Malkmus’s voice (and guitar) is all over the early records...

yeah maybe this is a thing where if your first SJ was Starlite Walker, or the early stuff, that's one way. but if your first intro was the Natural Bridge, or anything *after* American Water, you might vibe on the band different. he was there at the start. . .

Yeah theres something to that. I cant remember what my first one was, but I know I'd heard pavement first so that was definitely a thing in my head when absorbing SJ for the first time. SMs guitar always made perfect sense, but hearing a voice other than DBs on threw me off for a long time. Even the songs where Carrie sings felt weird to me the first times i heard them, the cognitive dissonance of being in David Berman's head and suddenly then hearing someone other than him.

Keep in mind that Malkmus & Nastanovich were pissed & hurt when Berman went off and made a record without them. They felt like he had “broke up the band.” That’s how much of a unit they were (at least to those guys).

(You may find that unfair, as they had another successful band, but regardless...)

def something to that.

i love DCB more than just about anything and Silver Jews was his thing, but for me SM's presence on Starlite Walker and American Water is, as morrisp says, core to the sound.

and i hopped on board w/ Starlite Walker. i can see how if you did so later, SM might feel intrusive on the older stuff.

yeah i know the history, and i love all of american water now, but i dunno i also think that regardless of SMs key importance to the DNA of that sound, at the end of the day the platonic ideal of SJ was just not a duet/bg vox kind of band, in my mind. Its like hearing Eno sing on Remain in Light, for me - it works in the context of how the band and there sound are operating, but theres also always a part of my brain that goes "oh huh - that guys here too, i guess". Its interesting - especially with songwriter type stuff theres definitely something about hearing multiple voices on a song that changes the alchemy of it for a listener (beyond just "this story is being told by two people" or "this part carries special emphasis because someone is singing along with the lead"). I'll have to think about it.

Just to counter some of the anachronistic revisionism ITT, from a 1994 interview with DCB & BN:

BN: Pavement is mainly Steve’s songwriting. It’s the principal reason for the band existing. Whereas Silver Jews there’s a totally different guy serving the same role. It’s a totally different thing, and Steven is really good friends with David and he’s a really good guitar player. He really enjoys David’s writing, and having the freedom to just jam on guitar and his responsibilities in Silver Jews are absolutely minimal. It’s totally great for him to relax. For me, the best two times I’ve ever been on stage have been the two nights we played the Drag City Invitational. There was an intense pressure, and I felt that I was an extremely important part of the band. In Pavement, my role has always been soley live, and pretty much to add spirit and enthusiasm; musically, it’s no where near as important as when I’m in the Silver Jews. I have far greater input in Silver Jews. With the new album, we had 12 sheets of paper with lyrics on them and we basically wrote songs around those words.

DCB: Exactly. Yeah, now, for the last couple years it’s been mostly songs that either I’ve written beforehand or Steve and I sat down for a little bit and worked something out more clearly. Because none of that stuff we recorded in the house, which came out on records, was… we were just recording for our own pleasure, you know. We all worked really hard jobs and it was really tense living where we did, and it was fun for us at night to just howl. Afterwards, it became songwriting.

CB: So how did Pavement work out of all this? Were the Silver Jews playing together first?

DCB: Well, we played a lot together in college, but we didn’t call ourselves the Silver Jews. Steve went home and brought up Pavement, just after he graduated from college.

CB: So kind of?

DCB: Well, in a way, technically, on a time-line, yes, first. But, Pavement’s always been what Steve does and that’s him. Pavement is Steve. Silver Jews as at least until recently, three friends getting together and making music.

CB: So you sort of play the role that Steve does in Pavement in the Silver Jews, you’re more the-

DCB: Well, on this record especially. I wrote all the songs. Steve is good to have around because he’s a complete song stylist and I can bring even a really lame song out and he can polish anything up with what he does. He can make anything into gold. Now, he likes to take more of a backseat, and it’s good for me because I’ve gotten to the point where I have a vision of what I want things to be like whereas before I didn’t. I knew what I wanted this record to be like. I knew exactly what I wanted…

https://tomsugden.github.io/cordsuit//articles/cool-beans-interview.html

i'm pretty sure i heard American Water before i spent much time (if any) with Pavement.

Silver Jews-style Malkmus is still my favorite

guys i get sm's role in the history of silver jews, v familiar with the stories of these bands. it took me a while to get into the presence of vox by someone other than the primary songwriter /= revisionist history

This to me is the <3 of American Water

Steve is good to have around because he’s a complete song stylist and I can bring even a really lame song out and he can polish anything up with what he does. He can make anything into gold.

who’s BN?

bob nastanovich, i think

Fwiw it’s strictly a voice thing for me; i love Steve’s guitar all over American water. the solo on random rules is perfect. even like the goofy wah pedal on People

that quotes interesting.. it’s so hard for me to imagine Dave writing federal dust tho. the whole vocal melody and rhythm of it is so Steve. Blue arrangements too

Malkmus has writing credits on both of those tracks fwiw.

(as well as Gate Pratt on "Honk")

For me it's probably just that I grew tired of Malkmus, fairly or not. I started with S&E and Starlite Walker as a schoolkid but have entered a long refractory period during which I don't really want to hear him, especially late Pavement. Maybe American Water gives off occasional Brighten the Corners vibes or something. It doesn't necessarily make much sense as I don't think I'm ever not in the mood for Starlite Walker.

American Water is miles better than Brighten The Corners.

Even Malkmus thought so!

(Or maybe he said that about terror twilight, I don’t remember)

American Water is better than Terror Twilight as well!

yeah american water is better than 2.5-3 pavement albums

it's better than the last two, that's it tho

I'm a huge Pavement fan and pretty much love all their albums, but I love American Water even more.

Oh my god there is so much gold in the interview Al linked upthread.

David: Yeah, really. What am I afraid of? I’m really afraid of hurting people. I’m really afraid of my car breaking down. I’m really afraid of dying before I get things done. I’m really afraid of my landlord’s wife.

CB: Why?

David: She’s a battleaxe, she’s like a lot of people in Northampton. She’s just really really harsh. They live next door, so I always hear her outside. She was yelling this morning at her grandson. Her grandson has this little stuffed owl and she was saying “The owl goes ‘hoot!’” and she asked her grandson “Now what does the owl say? ” and her grandson didn’t say anything, he was really quiet. She says “WHAT DOES THE OWL SAY? ” and her grandson didn’t say anything and so she said “THE OWL SAYS ‘HOOT!’ WHAT DOES THE OWL SAY?!!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xug9Ty0FD0

Singing:
Elisa Ambrogio, Meg Baird, Cassie Berman, Bill Callahan, Ben Chasny, Bill MacKay, Haley Fohr, David Grubbs, Cory Hanson, Emmett Kelly, Matt Kinsey, Sean O’Hagan, Will Oldham, David Pajo, Todd Rittmann, Alasdair Roberts, Matt Sweeney, Mick Turner, George Xylouris, Azita Youssefi.

Featuring:
Bill Callahan, Bonnie 'Prince' Billy, Cassie Berman, Boneman the dog, David Grubbs, Bill MacKay, George Xylouris, Shelagh Hannan, Apollonia Xylouris, Fred Somsen, Sue Ng-Espada, Matt Kinsey, Tony Crow, Azita Youssefi, Caitlin Rose Mahoney, Cory Hanson, Brett Sova, David Pajo.

!!!

Wonder why Malkmus declined or wasn't asked?

Anyways, I was just thinking the other day of how incredible the American Water band was:

DCB: vox/guitar
SM: guitar/vox
Mike Fellows (Rites Of Spring/Happy Go Licky/Royal Trux/Drag City house band): bass
Tim Barnes (The Essex Green/Drag City house band): drums
Chris Stroffolino: keys/organ

haha, clever video. I really like the part where the stuntman contemplates a better burrito

Oh man, I'm not sure where to put this but since I just posted about him a few weeks ago on this thread:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/tim-barnes-medical-expenses

On a lighter note, the painter of the album cover found a photograph of the original cover painting (tho in the comments he mentions that the painting is probably in a landfill or given away):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CI5q152l7yF/

25 years / 46k beers

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyoGeQhvmMF/

Those NY Press ads are fantastic!

NY ‘98, what a time to be alive

“Night Society” remains straight Fire