Genesis vs. Yes: A Poll

Earlier thread for reference:

TS: Yes Vs. Genesis

I totally appreciate the musicianship Yes has been known for over the years, but even when Genesis was at their most prog-damaged they still wrote some pretty great songs. Genesis w/o much of a contest.

Catalogs under consideration:

YES
Yes - 1969
Time and a Word - 1970
The Yes Album - 1971
Fragile - 1972
Close to the Edge - 1972
Yessongs - 1973
Tales from Topographic Oceans - 1973
Relayer - 1974
Yesterdays - 1974
Going for the One - 1977
Tormato - 1978
Drama - 1980
Yesshows - 1980
Classic Yes - 1981
90125 - 1983

---

GENESIS

From Genesis To Revelation - 1969
Trespass - 1970
Nursery Cryme - 1971
Foxtrot - 1972
Live - 1973
Selling England By The Pound - 1973
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - 1974
A Trick Of The Tail - 1976
Wind & Wuthering - 1976
Spot The Pigeon (ep) - 1977
Seconds Out - 1977
...and then there were three... - 1978
Duke - 1980
Abacab - 1981
Three Sides Live - 1982
3x3 (ep) - 1982
Genesis - 1983

Both great bands in their day but Genesis music - especially Gabriel era - has always sounded like it took a lot of work to construct, conceptually and musically. It's like you could see the parts making up their songs. Yes music, otoh, just seemed effortless. ( Does that make sense?)

It does, but which do you prefer?

Oh, yes...YES.

genesis

http://www.relayerjim.com/YesLogo3d-Sm.gif

that is so UGLY and wrong.

http://www.genesisweb.com.ar/Genesis_Live/Genesis_Live.jpg

Got to be Genesis, they have a sense of drama and majesty that Yes never came close to.

Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers.

I voted Genesis but it's apples and apple crumbles imo.

genesis does what nintendon't

I love both bands, but Genesis are in a league of their own. Yes would sometimes end up in what I call guitar wanking - meaningless solos with no aim, whereas Genesis stayed wonderfully melodic all the time. Also, Genesis never made a drum solo, which is a huge plus in itself.

But Yes were still amazing too.

Also, Genesis never made a drum solo

whoa! You sure?

(I'm not saying they did, I don't know. Just, the few times I've seen GenPhil on TV, live, a drum solo seemed part of it. Along with going "Invisible touch AYO!! (join in!!)"
)

I'm sure they did. I remember hearing at least one Collins/Bruford double drum solo from the Seconds Out period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EtlwoTSrxU

^ Seven fucking minutes long

More of a duet than a solo though tbf

but i guess they never cut a studio track drum solo, a la Moby Dick (which i think is pretty interminable, though i think bonham's a god). the drum duets are a live thing, and tbh i think they're pretty killer.

there's a pretty brief drum solo that opens 'los endos' on the seconds out lp...

I gotta go with Yes. I love Foxtrot and the mid '70s Live album, but those are really the only Gabriel-era Genesis discs I play regularly. On the other hand I'm obsessed with Yes's run from Fragile through Going for the One.

"I remember hearing at least one Collins/Bruford double drum solo from the Seconds Out period."

The version of "The Cinema Show" on Seconds Out is 100% fantastic, or rather 73% fantastic (ie. from the point at which Bill Bruford starts playing).

I take what I suspect is a prog dilletante view, according to which The Yes Album / Fragile / Close to the Edge are very very much better than anything Genesis ever did, or anything else that Yes ever did.

And of course Genesis have never made an album called "Classic Genesis" - an almost explicit acknowledgment, there, that Yes are better.

That said, were there ever to be a "Dud Yes" album, it would need, at least, an octuple gatefold sleeve.

Yes, because they don't have Tony Banks

Voting Yes, though I'm not sure I can explain why (better tunes in the '70s, though probably not as many catchy tunes in the '80s -- I'd still take "Owner of a Lonely Heart" over any '80s Genesis hit though.) But I've been thinking I should maybe explore '70s Genesis more one of these days. (Their '70s albums have never really held my attention, even less than Yes's. But they've often had, uh, moments.)

i never listened to any genesis after "wind and wuthering" by choice. all the stuff past 1976 i was forced to listen to by unfortunate circumstances was shallow, mushy pop hit material. except one or two songs from "we can't dance".

"Yes would sometimes end up in what I call guitar wanking - meaningless solos with no aim"

Bullshit, when was this?

Yes takes this big-time. No contest.

Yeah, after posting my comment, it occurred to me that I definitely get the idea Yes were way more a rock band in the '70s -- Genesis just seem flimsily "conceptual" by comparison. (Though again, maybe if I spent more time with '70s Genesis LPs, I'd start to think otherwise.)

Also, btw, '70s Genesis definitely seem way more "important" to me than '80s Genesis, but not necessaily better. Pretty sure their '81 to '86 LPs (the three studio ones from Abacab to Invisible Touch), cheesy or no, have a higher percentage of songs that actually stuck with me over the years. (Hooks aren't a bad thing.)

"I Can't Walk" and "Invisible Touch" are great, don't know much about Yes.

Genesis, in a walk.

Yes were way more of a rock band, I agree. The key Genesis guys seem to agree that the band was a vehicle for the song-writing and they were pretty Pop-y writers even throughout the baroque 70s concept years, they just stitched the Pop tunes together to make big ol' freakouts. Whilst Gabriel was in the band he seems to have been the big focus for press and fans too, whereas Yes had 3 or 4 big egos wrestling to dominate the sound quite often. Tales from Topographic Oceans is kinda the Prog Kiss solo albums in those terms.

I preferred Genesis in the poll cos I guess I like the twisted psych Pop sensibility that much more than Yes's super-stadium blissouts, plus never under-estimate the power of heavy Mellotron bombardment. But I really think that there's just as much that separates the 2 bands as connects them, bar the historical lumping together that ought to be worn out by now.

yes all the way. rocked way harder and close to the edge is maybe the prog ideal for me.

I can t imagine that Genesis has anything that comes close to the greatness of something like "Gates of Delirium".

Hmmm.. I'm saying upthread that Genesis have never done drum solos, which of course they have done on live concerts, and even on live albums. But never in a studio album. I don't really count live albums at all.

Btw. I'd rather have put the end of their prime at 1980 than 1983. 1980 was the year when both released their last great albums. After that, Genesis became a pop band. Yes actually never left prog behind, but apart from one huge non-prog hit in "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" nobody really cared what they did after "Drama".

^ Not quite true. Big Generator went platinum and Union went gold sales-wise, so people obvs still cared for a while (and I still think Big Generator is a great record).

Many Yes fans considered 1999's "The Ladder" a return to form of sorts. I've never quite understood why though.

Please name a Yes drum solo that was not on a live album. Or a "wanky" guitar solo, Clap and Mood for a Day dont count.

yes is way better than genesis. nothing genesis ever did can touch the yes album - relayer run. and -- a dubious distinction maybe -- the mark 2 prog-pop on drama and 90125 slays abacab, duke, and invisible touch. not that genesis sucks or anything -- way better solo albums than yes's, starting with steve and pete -- but a fairer contest is yes vs. zeppelin, or yes vs. floyd

the ladder is terrible. I think the only 'return to form' album they really managed was 'magnification' and that that's only barely (the studio stuff from keys to ascension is alright too but just not very good)

disagree. there's a few cheesy ballads on the ladder but also their only convincing approaching 10-minute epics--"homeworld" and "new languages"--since drama. "lightning strikes" sounds like merriweather post pavilion ten years ahead of time, and "can i?/face to face" isn't so boring either. igor koroshev brought new energy to that album for sure. can't think of a single song from magnification. the orchestra kind of smothers things for me

I quite like some prog-era Genesis but there's a lot I have to block out - a lot of it sounds far too fusty, too clunky. There's a feeling of unfulfilled potential to it all. Yes on the other hand have two albums I really, really like (Fragile and Close To The Edge) so they get my vote.

Please name a Yes drum solo that was not on a live album. Or a "wanky" guitar solo, Clap and Mood for a Day dont count.

OTM. Those were really bizarre reasons to favour Genesis.

Anyway, I really like both bands but Yes wins it for me for the same run that kamerad mentions. Just a sense of ... flow to their best moments. Also, I listened to them when I was 12.

Shaping up to be close.

(Did you start the thread or was it a different Mark? Just curious.)

Please name a Yes drum solo that was not on a live album.

There are a number of them on "Tales From Topographic Oceans".

ooohh, now I'm convinced, can I change my vote?

Fuckin' YES!

Genesis.

there is a very lame drum solo (and guitar solo) on "release" from tormato - but it's supposed to be self-consciously "stadiumish" so they kinda dumbed it down

Selling England By The Pound tops every Yes album for me. Also The Lamb Lies Down would too if you condense it to one cd (not that there is anything bad on it).

Yes has better guitar solos though

Also, Tales From Topographic Oceans is probably my favorite Yes album

sooo you can tell how hard the band rocks didn't have much emphasis on my decision

Genesis in the '70s were pure English whimsy, a very odd and singular, almost Victorian, sound/feel. Yes were less individuated (although hardly generic), but were sonically more adventurous (therefore risking more?), a better outright rock band with peaks ("Gates of Delirium", "Heart of the Sunrise", "Awaken") that simply towered above the best of Genesis ("Musical Box", "Cinema Show").

That was very well-put!

this is tough.

chris squire, who is a badass bass inspiration for me, might be the tiebreaker...his tone is so fucking great

xp: no you are very odd and singular!

how could anyone hear 'firth of fifth' or 'the brazilian' and then bag on tony banks?

no one's bagging on tony banks. genesis were great, just did nothing like "close to the edge" or "perpetual change"

i don't know yes enough tbh. love roundabout though. but genesis are my years 9-11 tbh couldn't not vote them.

Genesis because they dont have Rick Wakeman. Yes sure could do a line in terrible synth solos.

I like both bands but this era Genesis poops on Yes from a great height IMO

poor peter banks : (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep5_HL9A_PA

Ahh, the Wakeman ragging continues. What are the "terrible synth solos" up to "Tormato" (which is full of awful solos and sounds)? Wakeman is an infinitely more interesting and varied synth/keys player on the classic Yes stuff than Tony Banks ever was in Genesis. I seem to think most of the Wakeman hate that goes around to be based on the guy's bad rep due to silly sartorial choices and "unique" early solo concerts rather than his musical contributions. Wakeman is/was essential to the Yes sound.

And - yeah - the first couple of Yes albums are pretty good but P.Banks/T. Kaye not a patch on Howe/Wakeman.

(xpost) Wakeman is/was essential to the classic Yes sound.

you gotta admit some of those wakeman solo albums are a little hard to listen to

Definitely. But I think it's his playing on Yes albums that's targeted here. I can't recall a terrible solo/synth passage on any of them until the splattered tomatoes album. "Tormato" is mainly just a big "what were you all thinking?" moment down to the packaging. It even sounds like shit.

The Yes Album - 1971
Fragile - 1972
Close to the Edge - 1972

to me, these 3 albums are PERFECT, and they still swing almost 40 years later. that said, I think it's a close call overall. I'll vote YES.

The first LP I bought when I got my first stereo was Yessongs, and I played the hell out of it. They were favorite band during much of high school, so despite the fact that I love that Genesis era, it's gotta be Yes.

Genesis. i almost wish i had my record player here so i could listen to Lamb

can we get photos of everyone and then stereotype the yes fans vs. genesis fans after this is over?

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/myeyes33/Roger%20Dean%20Art/rd_14.jpg

Genesis shits on Yes

patrick moraz would probably be into that

Yes, Squire is amazing, my favourite melodic bass player, even above Hooky!

That was very well-put!

― Sundar, Friday, January 29, 2010 3:23 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

From you, steeped in the genre, that's a genuine compliment, so thanks. I almost didn't post it, thinking it may have been a little boilerplate, ha ha.

CaptainLorax, what do you imagine the differences are between the two sets of fans? I mean, there must be a large proportion of fans who like both fairly equally. For most, this poll is probably a tough call.

Yes Sundar I'm Mark Rich@rdson, I guess I have two accounts and am logged in differently on my mobile.

Man, Wakeman was awesome on Yes records, plus he played with Sabbath, he's good in my book. Ive never heard any of his solo stuff, but that's irrelevant.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

wakeman does a great job on hunky dory by bowie too

also owner of a lonely heart is official G Shit

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Wrong winner.

Btw. Wakeman is what I like best about Yes. All the best Yes albums feature him on (a lot of) keyboards.

Yours is a disgrace

Yes!

I think the independent voters through Yes over the edge seeing how Genesis is more of an acquired taste

threw*

Well. Still wrong winner, but Yes were great nevertheless, and I'd pick them any day above King Crimson or ELP. Nothing is better than 70s Genesis though.

"Wrong winner"

what are you, some kind of communist?

and I'd pick them any day above King Crimson or ELP

And I'll take the best of Crimson over any of the other three! (As will a lot of others on this thread, probably.)

Im surprised this was even that close. The two bands arent even comparable in terms of quality. Genesis wasnt fit to drive Yes' tour bus

word.

Genesis: "Can we drive your tour bus?"
Yes: "No"

mike rutherford seems like he'd be a good designated driver tbh

Nothing is better than 70s Genesis though.

Actually, hmmmm... a rusty fork in my eye is better than '70s Genesis... for starters.

You're all mad.

why did i miss this thread?!?

i would've voted for Yes. prog-era Genesis sounds like a band trying hard to sound like Yes, but not being very successful at it (which is a point that dave q. made a while back somewhere else on ILM). plus their music from that era does nothing for me (and i've tried).

that said, Wakeman really tested my patience.

the answer is VdGG, obviously

(voted Yes)

"owner of a lonely heart" and "leave it" notwithstanding, Genesis were a better Big 80s pop band.

Missed this thread as well. Like 70's Yes more than Genesis. Like 80's Genesis more than Yes. I'll give a slight edge to Yes for Steve Howe's Guitar.

The two two bands' seventies phases don't really sound alike to me. My favourite aspects of 70s Yes = quasi-funk bass. My favourite aspects of 70s Genesis = greensleeves ornery.

been pondering this for way too long and I've basically determined there is no right or wrong, but I'd lean towards Yes since it's not really hard to enjoy their classic period albums w/o paying too much attention to them, while certain Genesis songs like "Can-Utility", the first half of "Cinema Show", or most of the Lamb second disc just pass me by, while Close to the Edge and Fragile just go from strength to strength

I don't expect too much gabriel-era genesis love from a board that thinks gabriel solo is better

wait, really? Gabriel solo is fine but come on, just come on

I know right