Wish POLLfillment: Sonic Youth's Dirty

2nd favourite SY album, one of my top ten albums of the 90s, about 82% of this album is imo unassailable, but there is only one song I owuld ever vote for, and that is 'JC'....

this is a very uneven record to me, 1/3 amazing, 1/3 awful, and 1/3 nice and tolerable. voting for "Purr" narrowly over "JC."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBivMTOOZFo

"Wish Fulfillment", but my favorite from this era is "Genetic".

yeah...this is one of the albums I'd most like to play armchair A&R with and imagine how much better it'd be with a different sequence and different songs kept or ditched for b-sides

"Theresa's Sound-World." Like I said in last summer's thread, my favorite SY bask-in-sound-for-its-own-sound moment.

yeah Vig really earned his paycheck on that one

Theresa is a close second for me...I am betting that it wins...

(though singles usually have an annoying tendency of coming from nowhere (well...) & winning these polls...esp. since I consider 100% and YAF to be the worst songs on here)

*own sake

"Youth Against Fascism" was redeemed for me by the live version they played on that tour. It was snarling and vicious which the studio version sure is not.

What I wrote then:

They got better at writing fuzz-pop songs this decade, no question. "100%" really sucks as an album opener and an attempt at terse pop; to return to Al's point, starting the album with, say, "Youth Against Fascism" would have gone a long way towards redeeming the muddled sequencing and placed their vague political awakening in greater relief.

you are kidding, right? starting out with Youth Against Fascism?

anyway, this album has seemed a little long for me, it's like a double album that shouldn't be a double album? Theresa's Sound World is my fav, i think but the first 6-7 songs are great.

voted shoot

well, it has the most songs of any SY album, and was their longest album besides Daydream Nation when they made it (although Washing Machine and A Thousand Leaves had more CD-era bloat later). more importantly, though, it FEELS long.

It's the song I hate.

yeah it feels sooooo long, but i still kind of dig it in chunks

alfred, recycling small talk is a sign of mental illness....

You're a fascist twerp.

are you positioning yourself as "youth," then?

LOL

their worst record aside from experimental trash,... :)

Last SY LP I liked. Have to give it a another spin before voting, but "Youth Against Fascism" is the one I remember.

am0n what are your faves?

All anyone really needs from this is the 100% single with four songs including Genetic. I get embarrassed listening to this (especially, but not exclusively, during the Kim songs), in the same way I used to have to hide my eyes when Bobby Brady was about to do something stupid.

So, uh, yeah. Write in vote for Genetic.

This is the least meandering, most direct SY. Personally I like it. Youth against Facisim for me is a killer. OK its repetitive but it is short. "Yeah the president sucks hes a warped fuck" an infantile expression but effective and fun to sing and the last part of the song where it goes into overdrive is great too. Good at a party.

Chapel Hill

sucks hes a warped fuck

Isn't it "he's a war pig fuck" ? Not that it's any more mature, but at least it's a Sabbath reference.

voted Theresa's Soundworld.
i also like the Dinosaur jr-y like Purr, esp. the awesome guitar solo near the end.

Dinosaur has songs as fast as "Purr"?

mmm...The Wagon?!

Chapel Hill is pretty cool, too. Thurston seems to be looking back on USHC here.

Oh yes. I thought he was mispronouncing warped as in war-ped..but what you say makes more sense. I do like it though when the pronounciation of words at the end of lines are changed to fit a rhyme.

"Swimsuit Issue" has my favorite Kim one-liners.

Lot of love coming out here, for a record I thought was generally despised.

I always heard it as "he's a one big fuck," knowing that couldn't possibly be the actual line without caring enough to look it up

We're up to three interpretations, and all of them apply.

I know a lot of 'real' SY fans don't like this one. What is it about it that people don't like? I guess I have heard 'the production' bandied about. Pure snobbery if you ask me. I guess the songs are too direct as I said above. Not enough artful instrumental passages? That's nice and all but a lot of the times on SY records for me those parts just rob the song of any momentum and I start to lose interest. I guess I'm just a simple guy.

am0n what are your faves?

― some dude, Friday, January 29, 2010 1:28 PM

bad moon rising, evol, daydream, sonic nurse. i like pretty much all their stuff, but dirty and jet set just always bored me

I've got a friend who dubbed the little puppet guy on this cover 'Nic Fit'

yah Sonic Nurse is aces

Today I noticed: "Self-Obsessed and Sexee" is a dirtier, better "100%."

I don't like SO & S v. much; same goes for Screaming Skull...they're not bad, but definitely is the point where that album starts going astray for me

(but) ^those two are (definitely)

is that math?

Sugar Kane is kinda corny but I've always loved it.
Old school sy fans hate this record cuz it's the crossover record, I always thought. It was the first one my MTV watching ass bought. My first exposure to them was via the pump up the volume soundtrack, tho, of course.

Can't believe people are actually voting for "Youth Against Facism". Such a lame song.

OK, it's got my vote. FASCIST!

Old school sy fans hate this record cuz it's the crossover record, I always thought. It was the first one my MTV watching ass bought. My first exposure to them was via the pump up the volume soundtrack, tho, of course.

― Trip Maker, Friday, January 29, 2010 2:13 PM (14 minutes ago)

I think you're thinking of Goo, not Dirty?

Hah, Pump Up the Volume for me too! I can totally remember that moment (i.e. listening to that CD for the first time and going "What is that?")

Like many songs on Dirty, Sugar Kane, as corny as parts of it are (just lyircs for me), the fucking instrumental passage in the middle of the song is just so so good, especially when it breaks down after the initial rock-out solo and then builds up again. I am so glad there is a lot of love for Purr here too, I used to put that song on mixtapes mainly cause of how righteous the guitar playing is throughout (and cause I always considered it completely overlooked ...)

first exposure to SY was either:

1) coming across their name in random Nirvana/Pumpkins/Breeders articles
or
2) checking out their albums on some Columbia House booklet

I'm pretty sure that whatever it was, it was def. #2, and esp. falling in love with song titles like Kool thing, Cinderella's Big Score, and Titanium Expose that made me decide to check them out. A grunge outcast in my class lent me his cassette copy of goo; v. different than what I expected--I thought all alternative rock sounded like Soundgarden, STP, and Silverchair (or at least like the Pumpkins and Breeders) but this seemed not exactly quieter, but much more atmospheric, much less upfront with its rewards...I liked Mote, Mildred Pierce, Tunic, and Disappearer (still my Sonic Youth POO) and those still tend to be my favorite songs from that album...

Dirty was creeper rock; it wasn't until a couple of years ago listening to some of the songs that I realized how much I had missed that album, how many of those songs had stuck with me...not every album from that time has that effect...my top 2 albums from when I was fifteen, The Bends and Gish, I can't even hear those anymore...Dirty brings it though.

I think you're thinking of Goo, not Dirty?

dirty their first post-nevermind lp, so the entry point for a lot of kids of my generation, rather than goo.

voted wish fulfillment, but could as easily have been theresa or drunken butterfly

Yeah I think for Brits at least Dirty was the album that really got notice here. I was 15 then so I dunno how much attention they got with Goo but the first SY song I ever heard was 100% on something like 120 Minutes or Alternative Nation

I shd probly listen again (for the first time in like 15 years), Sugar Kane I think.

"Drunken Butterfly" all the way, a 1990s Sonic Youth song that even xhuxk eddy could love.

always liked chapel hill a lot

The beautifully recorded Drunken Butterfly. Actually, evertyhing on the album except for Sugar Kane is good to great.

so divisive!

"shoot"

my favorite 'kim song' of the 90's

"Swimsuit Issue" as much for the brazenly naive/stoopid lyrics as the rolling pummel of the first half and the gallumphing robot crunch of the second half.

bad moon rising, evol, daydream, sonic nurse. i like pretty much all their stuff, but dirty and jet set just always bored me

― ♖♕♖ (am0n), Friday, January 29, 2010 12:34 PM (8 hours ago)

troo

I don't remember liking Kim's tracks that much at the time this came out, but they really stand out for me now, especially "Shoot", which gets my vote

"Swimsuit Issue" as much for the brazenly naive/stoopid lyrics as the rolling pummel of the first half and the gallumphing robot crunch of the second half.

yeah I think Kim does really good with the lyrics in this album, the way in 'SI' the way they set up the dopey lyrics in the first half only for it to culminate in a single line of stark poetry: 'ice women'.

'JC' reminds me of Madvillain, really.

yeah I think Kim does really good with the lyrics in this album, the way in 'SI' the way they set up the dopey lyrics in the first half only for it to culminate in a single line of stark poetry: 'ice women'.

― don't mind me: just exhuming dead horses... (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:06 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

for like 12 years i thought she was singing "are swimming," now I think she's singing "us women"

also it's "war pig fuck" duh

for like 12 years i thought she was singing "are swimming," now I think she's singing "us women"

also it's "war pig fuck" duh

― congratulations (n/a), Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:05 PM (6 hours ago)

I think it's "I'm swimming"

Yeah, official site says "I'm swimming," which is how I've always heard it, but lol ambiguity.

lol 100%

They really should have found 3 1/2 minutes to put Genetic on the album. It should have been a single for that much, as it is probably one of the best pop nuggets Sonic Youth made.

Purr

I also always heard it as "I'm swimming".

"Wish Fulfilment" is the best song but I voted for "Shoot" before relistening based on the memory of how exhilarating it was to hear for the first time as a teenager. Listening now, what seemed most striking was how people who were approaching middle age could have recorded something so adolescent.

I assumed that was because they were spending all their time reading Sassy.

ice women: maybe it IS i'm swimming, that's how I heard it at first, but some lyrics page I read said otherwise...

Shoot: this track is great, battered-wife revenge dub, it is kind of adolescent, but still awesome...I'm glad it's getting so much love!

This is really hard - this is my favorite SY album. Ian MacKaye playing 2nd guitar on Y.A.F.! And the Untouchables/"Nic Fit" cover! And "Wish Fulfillment" is my favorite Lee song...

just voted on the strip

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

runoff!

how often does this happen? def got to do a runoff

weird results, didn't know people liked YAF that much and have no idea why

Yeah, I was just about to ask whether ten people were taking the piss about that.

none of those 3 would ever get my vote but out of just those 3 i'd vote YAF

i voted for YAF, it's definitely the song i like best even though the arrangement is kinda weak

went back and listened to this (rescreened?), not nearly as bad as i remembered. prob would vote for wish fulfillment

man, I would have been the tie-breaker for Sugar Kane if I had seen this poll earlier... cuz of this: Like many songs on Dirty, Sugar Kane, as corny as parts of it are (just lyircs for me), the fucking instrumental passage in the middle of the song is just so so good, especially when it breaks down after the initial rock-out solo and then builds up again.Like many songs on Dirty, Sugar Kane, as corny as parts of it are (just lyircs for me), the fucking instrumental passage in the middle of the song is just so so good, especially when it breaks down after the initial rock-out solo and then builds up again.

oh no, i didn't see this & could've decided it for "wish fulfillment"! RUNOFF

this really is my favorite SY 90's LP by a hair, glad Wish Fulfillment got some recognition. I think it shows the strength of the album that most everything picked up votes - mine was for Theresa's Soundworld, love that tune but I also love Sugar Kane.

You asked for it; you got it.

absolute best kim performances, vicious and totally confident

most production presence

biggest dumbest drums

sickest noises

most urgent riffing

best lee song?

CLOUD JAMS

i believe anita hill

'radio' songwriting fits in rather than sticking out

fat alt-rock bass

this is the best SY album forever

Really think Bob Rock would have better helped them realize their vision for this one.

THERESA'S SOUNDWORLD!

WISH FULFILLMENT!

SWIMSUIT ISSUE!

I love Shoot and Orange Rolls, and On the Strip...

I think the radio songwriting is a bit bad but otherwise this album owns completely. J. totally otm

90S RULE FOREVER FLANNEL 4 LIFE

WHERE YOU GOIN / WHERE YOU BEEN / MAKING WISHES AND WATCHIN' DREAMS

I believe this is the last album where Steve Shelley 'goes nuts'.

when this came out i bought it immediately and it was my first sonic youth album. to this day it is my fave. great to listen to with full speed on the german autobahn.

i think i heard some double bass drum pedal freakout action i never noticed before

if you haven't seen the video for 100% in a while it really deserves a revisit. spike jonze mourning the tragic death of jason lee while sonic youth plays a house party filled with extras bedecked in the grungiest of grungewear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3gN9Up6hmc

if you're lucky, youtube precedes it with a tequila ad starring perry farrell!

I just posted the Letterman performance of 100% on FB this morning...funny timing

I find the Dirty Boots and 100% vids unwatchable

tell like it is

still got a lot of love for this album

I'M JUST HERE FOR DICTATION
AND NOT YOUR SUMMER VACATION

Much love rest too much

I read one of the Soulwax-guys had the intro of "100%" as his phone´s ringtone. Not everyone around him liked that and he quickly changed it.

That sounds like a great idea actually

i think it was the opening bit of (delayed?) guitar at the beginning of shoot that MTV used for one of their commercials.. can't recall which commercial, but it was aired frequently

fuck, i'm bout to put on SILVER SESSION. there's great energy in this music. probably would've voted for theresa's soundworld, though not sure.. may have voted on it.

JC is sounding beautiful this morning.

The entrance of the second guitar at around 0.22 on "Theresa" is my single favourite part of this album

JC is the best

it's 8.30 AM and i'm putting this on

the secondary guitar right at the beginning of JC sounds like some wild distorted horn.. i get a sort of a tv crime story image from it.

"and all you men are slime"

lol

I believe this is the last album where Steve Shelley 'goes nuts'.

yeah. i blame his post-dirty suckiness on overemployement (two dollar guitar, cat power, raincoats, christina rosenvinge et al) plus he started putting on some weight, always a bad sign for rock drummers

that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard

haha why?

and btw thurston and lee got also super duper lazy with their chops, they almost sound like semi-virtuosos on dirty

because his playing, though it absolutely changed and got less bombastic after the early '90s, did not get "sucky," and the idea that playing in multiple bands (or gaining weight) would suddenly just wear a drummer out and make them incapable of rocking out satisfactorily is an incredible facile simpleheaded "theory."

I could be wrong, but my theory is that Shelley was still copying Bert and Sclavunos (both extremely good and original, though not conventionally talented, drummers) for a while, but at some point he just went over to what he does best, which is buh-buh-cha-buh-buh-cha. Basically a krautrock drummer in an art rock band, and that's why SY went downhill so badly. It's like they started off working with interesting received Branca+interesting drumming and as those influences slowly wear off the band goes to hell and all that's left is echoes of Kim Fowley and early-90's teenage feminist catchphrases.

went down what the fuck hill

some dude otm. i dont see any deterioration with Shelley's drumming after Dirty

see hear whatever

they still played a fair amount of pre-93 music right up through SY's last tours and there was certainly no sense that Steve was struggling to play the old fast stuff. .

Just playing The Eternal now to make sure I'm not insane. Every single drum track is buh-buh-cha, buh-buh-cha. I'm willing to bet that 90% of what he did was buh-buh-cha, buh-buh-cha. Shelley was an incredibly uncreative drummer, in a band that really needed a creative one.

why?

Quite the opposite: with their tunings and those singer-lyricists I want a super-steady drummer.

dude is pretty great at buh-buh-cha, buh-buh-cha, underrated drummer skill

Probably not coincidental that Bert is the only one of the group who was in a great band *after* SY.

Kind of imagining how easily Shelley would have ruined Halloween, for example.

his drumming on Murray Street leaves me cold, his grooves feel well-rote at this point. especially with 'rain on tin', one of the more interesting tracks, his drumming is accommodating (serves the music, whatever), but i find it pretty dull. 'disconnection notice' is a basically rehash of the self obsessed and sexxee groove (not steve's fault), and the noise break of 'dude ranch nurse' remarkably recreates the "instrumental break" of becuz.. compare the drumming, it's uncanny.

I almost wrote something up around this, but nah. I would be repeating like 20 statements made on dozens of SY threads. Simple breakdown: I am glad that I am not bored by late-period Sonic Youth.

Alfred otm: Shelley's rock-solid presence has been greatest asset p much since forever. Also, surely whoever said Bert was the only one in a classic band post-SY surely meant Sclavunos, who ended up in the Bad Seeds (assertion is total bullshit as far as I can tell, and highly debatable besides)

When I think of Shelley I think of almost Keith Moon sorts of fills, like, wtf is this super-steady take on him? Esp. on Goo and Dirty, he's all rolls and fills. The first thing that pops in my head, in fact, is Kool Thing, and that is total Moon.

think they're saying that post-dirty, shelley became less explosive on record, which is probably true, but whether that's a bad thing might be up to personal taste.

I just put on Dirty Boots, and I guess it's Keith Moon if Keith Moon played buh-buh-cha, buh-buh-cha all the time. Don't want to be pedantic, but the difference between Shelley and the guys who came before is pretty huge. The only song I can really think of where Shelley was essential is Free City Rhymes, as I doubt any of the other drummers could have handled the rhythm there. It's too bad they didn't do more along those lines, if they were stuck with a metronome...

When I think of Shelley I think of almost Keith Moon sorts of fills, like, wtf is this super-steady take on him? Esp. on Goo and Dirty, he's all rolls and fills. The first thing that pops in my head, in fact, is Kool Thing, and that is total Moon.

― Josh in Chicago

Agree! I'm talking about after Dirty.

One interesting thing about early SY vs. Branca and Chatham is the looseness of the drums. Chatham especially is like listening to the Feelies, and the Branca stuff is stiff as hell as well. SY really hit on something by de-emphasizing the rhythm-keeping aspect of drums early on (after the first ep, which they clearly reacted against) but then they lost it once Shelley was firmly on board.

I kinda stopped paying close attention to the band after Dirty, maybe because the guitars and songs didn't catch my ear, so I suppose I'm not surprised Shelley toned it down along with the gang. Shelley went more Neu, but maybe he needed to get all jam-band on them.

when this came out i bought it immediately and it was my first sonic youth album.

― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 31 July 2015 16:49 (3 days ago) Permalink

THIS

fuck, i'm bout to put on SILVER SESSION.

― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, August 2, 2015 10:40 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

everyone should do this all the time

I love "Silver Session"

think they're saying that post-dirty, shelley became less explosive on record, which is probably true, but whether that's a bad thing might be up to personal taste.

― tylerw, Monday, August 3, 2015 10:49 AM (3 hours ago)

he's got good feeling on EJSTNS, some nimble, powerful fills. there's a weight to his presence, possibly the recording/mix. i really like the dry, muted quality of the whole recording.. sort of a muted humidity (again, talked to death on other sy threads)

yeah his change in playing in the Jet Set/Washing Machine era seems very much reactive to the whole shifting mood and approach of the band. Kim switched from bass to guitar, they briefly considered changing the name of the band, there was a hiatus for baby Coco and a lot of side projects, and a general comfort with the 'elder statesmen' role. i wouldn't mind if they'd done some more fast and loud stuff in 94/95 but it might've made them seem kinda desperate at that point.

the jetsun dolma record (moore/surgal/winant) fucking rules. getting a bit off topic

went down what the fuck hill

― j., Monday, August 3, 2015 4:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

preach

while sonic youth plays a house party filled with extras
And Mike Watt!

talking with students about their music likes on the first day of class, i mentioned i was listening to sonic youth and one student sez

I have never listened to sonic youth by choice but my dad always forced us to listen to it in car rides.

dad dream nation

If I was a dad I would do this.

Dad puts on piece for Jetsun Dolma... "alright kids, this is how it's done."

There's the Lee Ranaldo dads, the 'nothing past 1988' dads, the SYR dads..

then there's the us maple dads.. in their minds, sy lost it somewhere after a thousand leaves. at first they settled for the maple, guitar sounds/figures filling the void, and then they realized that the prime 'mape is superior in most ways. You've got the talker dads, who are excitable, and then you have the more seasoned, rock-reared, purple on time. dads, who still need a beat. they probably like Pissed Jeans or something, and zone out on The Field or some bullshit.

(aka the SYR dads)

http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2015/09/08/sonic-youth-brixton-academy-london-december-14-1992/

shelley a monster here

Yeah, that was good!

when i was a kid i stole the 1988 (elle macpherson) and 1989 (kathy ireland 25th anniversary giant edition) sports illustrated swimsuit issues from my local library, which i think made me extra receptive to 'swimsuit issue'

i also stole stephen king's 'IT' and 'firestarter', but only to read and return undetected (except my mom found 'IT' and i got in trouble, or didn't, i don't remember)

I BELIEVE ANITA HILL

Haha this thread is my favorite child

I really hope kids these days are listening to this album and wondering "What the fuck is a swimsuit issue?!"

Idg that one. Isn't the SI Swimsuit Issue as big as it has ever been?

this thread def contains the worst steve shelley discussion on this board

especially with 'rain on tin', one of the more interesting tracks, his drumming is accommodating (serves the music, whatever), but i find it pretty dull

lmao imagine

Probably not coincidental that Bert is the only one of the group who was in a great band *after* SY.

― dlp9001, Monday, August 3, 2015 8:42 AM (four years ago)

Yikes. Here's a selection of bands and artists who Jim (S) recorded/toured with post-SY:

Alex Chilton (1983)
Tav Falco's Panther Burns (1983, 1992-1994)
Lydia Lunch (1984-1986, 1991-1992)
The Cramps (1991-1992)
Congo Norvell (1992-1996)
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds (1994 - present)

Surprised to see Youth Against Fascism place so high. Always saw it as a a cheap concession to Alternative Nation.

A sieg heil-in' squirt
you're an impotent jerk
Yeah, a fascist twerp
it's the song I hate
it's the song I hate

I think I've listened to enough Sonic Youth now to know they're not really my thing, but I adore this album

It was my first Sonic Youth album, so maybe that's the reason it's the one I latched onto. But I probably need to check out more of their albums. Goo felt similar to Dirty to me, if not as cohesive. I did enjoy a lot of Bad Moon Rising.

I was definitely scarred when I picked up Daydream Nation - said by many to be their best - and found it interminable and ponderous instead. This was years ago though, in the days of committing $17 to a CD when you just wanted to try something. It was enough to keep me from exploring their other albums. I should probably make it a point to dip my toes back in now that they're on Spotify.

I really dig that little guitar break in “Purr” (from like 2:40 until the main riff comes in again)… are there other SY things with that particular sound?

Ranaldo's leads in "Stones"? 2:50 in "Dirty Boots"?

Thx... "Stones" is nice. I think there's something almost Pavement-y about that "Purr" gtr, maybe that's why I like it so much

I know this is a basic-ass SY opinion, but "Sugar Kane" is such a great song... prob my favorite of theirs overall (it's a little funny when Thurston sings, "Kiss me like a frog"... I think it puts a different image in my head than was intended).