FUCKED UP: Matthew Herbert Foiled in Plan to Record the Death of a Pig

Okay so first off, this is not a troll post; I am by no means a vegetarian, animal activist or sponsored by PETA; and I generally enjoy conceptual works of music, but ILM, this thing GENUINELY UPSETS ME.

From Matthew Herbert's blog (http://thisisapig.blogspot.com):

Thursday, 21 May 2009

a project is born

my name is matthew herbert
and this is the blog of my pig.

in 2010 i will release a record entitled 'the pig'
it will be made up entirely of sounds made during the life cycle of a pig.
i will be there at its birth
during its life
present at its death
and during the butchery process.
its body will then be given to chefs new and old
there will be a feast
it will all be recorded

and then turned in to music

Interesting... and a bit disturbing.

We continue:

Tuesday, 26 January 2010

last days

the pig is due to be killed february 8th.

last few weeks

video below shows it with its family

Fucking hell!

Next:

Monday, 8 February 2010

abattoir

rather frustratingly, and despite many phone calls we have found it impossible to find an abattoir to allow us to record the death of the pig. we found one farmer willing to let us record, but then the attending vet did not allow it.

for me the death was always a crucial part of the project. it was the part i was looking forward to the least, but the part i felt was most pertinent in my understanding of this life. i'll be writing more about this process at a later date.

in the next stage of this process, the pig will be butchered this afternoon.

BOO FUCKING HOO WE CANNOT RECORD A SOON TO BE DEAD ANIMAL SQUEALING IN PAIN AS IT IS BEING BUTCHERED!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH

And then:

Wednesday, 10 February 2010

one ending

the pig is now dead.

What the fuck?!???!!

Is anyone going to listen to and enjoy this record, knowing it was based around the life and DEATH of a helpless animal that Herbert thinks it was "frustrating" to not capture in audio form??? I get that this is sample-based, conceptual music, I understand the point of such frameworks and guidelines for one's efforts, but ILM I ask you WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS ALBUM?????

*sigh*

Your turn.

this guy sucks

rip pig

ugh.

no big deal imo, just wish herbert would stick to dope jazz-house instead of these wacky art jinx

go ahead enjoying your fatback but back the source of that enjoyment with some beats... and that's a no no...

if you are not a vegetarian, where do you get off being offended at this?

I'm vegetarian and I'm not even offended by this

agreed.

xp

most pigs never even get to make a record!

how does recording the sound of the animal being killed for consumption (i'm assuming the same way any other pig is killed for pork) inhumane?

this herbert dude is not kosher

and ian, what the fuck are you ughing, you eat pork sandwiches every night dude

yo i didnt read this thread but is this about the new britney spears

this --> "most pigs never even get to make a record!"

followed by "a record prolly better than [____]"

ian u eat pork sandwiches EVERY NIGHT?

if you are not a vegetarian, where do you get off being offended at this?

Because it strikes me as glorifying the animal's death, in a sense, to record its death meticulously and preserve the sounds of its tortured cries and squeals on an album and press it onto vinyl and put it into stores and call it music!

I mean, I love music, that's why I'm on this website, but c'mon!

Gotta draw the line somewhere.

i kind of agree with ^this

did they autotune the pig's squeals?

i don't "object" to it, i just think it's retarded.

'preserve the sounds of its tortured cries and squeals on an album and press it onto vinyl and put it into stores and call it music!'

see Anton and the Johnsons

ok Im done.

most pigs never even get to make a record!

― rinse the lemonade (Jordan), Thursday, 11 February 2010 21:24 (4 minutes ago)

in the UK the Now That's What I Call Music series was started by a pig

ilxor i think you should think about the animals squals next time you bite into some meat you bought in a nicely lit supermarket.

makes sense since it is about the life and death of a pig imo.
if it were about like satan and other bad vibes then maybe it would be more o_0

no big deal imo, just wish herbert would stick to dope jazz-house instead of these wacky art jinx

^^

like if there were a documentary taking place inside a slaughterhouse would you be posting all shocked and appaled like this. gimme a fucking break.

you either don't like herbert, or don't like his music, but he's not doing anything that merits your reaction. go look in the mirror.

This isn't a documentary, though, it's intended as a piece of music. Music is generally regarded as entertainment. I don't think this is going to raise awareness for pig butcherings and unjust slaughters, etc., it's just a cold-hearted documentation of a dying pig.

xpost

like if there were a documentary taking place inside a slaughterhouse would you be posting all shocked and appaled like this. gimme a fucking break......NELL CARTER!

― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:31 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

cutty bringin' it

This isn't a documentary, though, it's intended as a piece of music. Music is generally regarded as entertainment. I don't think this is going to raise awareness for pig butcherings and unjust slaughters, etc., it's just a cold-hearted documentation of a dying pig.

you either don't like herbert, or don't like his music

Appreciate the assumption... but I like a couple of his older albums just fine, thanks.

actually it seems like the album was intended as an audio documentary for one pig's life. if they were going to drop it off a building and record it, maybe i'd hear your argument.

documentary ... documentation

Jesus, where's my editor when I need him? It's obvious what I mean though, regardless.

no it's not

if the documentary's video was cut up to make a music video i think i might be a bit offended, yes

ilxor, stop eating meat or stop being appaled.

There's footage of the pig's life before it's death on his blog, what more could you want? Just sync the tunes with the videos and there you go.

xpost

its*

ilxor is this putting you off your food or something?

herbert goin ham on em

what exactly are you complaining about

too bad Consolidated broke up, they'd be all over this like a cat on catnip

NOWHERE does it say the pig was being treated inhumanely. if you don't believe in killing animals for food, then don't participate. if you think that somehow sticking a microphone in the room makes this pig's life worth less, then you are truly fucked!

THIS WHOLE COURT IS GOIN' HAM

if i was forced to listen to the sounds of the cow/chicken/pig whose meat i'm about to buy before i was allowed to buy it i might eat a lot less meat

i think ppl thing they're complaining about animal slaughter but are actually complaining about conceptual art?

do get hungry when you look at a cow, ilxor?

this isn't quite John Duncan territory here

ilxor you have 30 days to become a vegetarian. after that 30 days is up i will return to this thread and tell you what a fucking moron you are.

ilxor is this putting you off your food or something?

Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork, I just don't see the point in making music of my food's dying sounds.

NOWHERE does it say the pig was being treated inhumanely. if you don't believe in killing animals for food, then don't participate. if you think that somehow sticking a microphone in the room makes this pig's life worth less, then you are truly fucked!

― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Thursday, 11 February 2010 16:38 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^this x1000

if i was forced to listen to the sounds of the cow/chicken/pig whose meat i'm about to buy before i was allowed to buy it i might eat a lot less meat

This is OTM.

A crew of us went to a Consolidated show in the summer of '92, watched their big multimedia presentation that included copious slaughterhouse footage, and then went to McDonald's afterward.

well, i have it from a good source that the pig you ate was fucking louis armstrong up in there

xxp, not really otm, considering nobody's forcing anybody to listen to herbert or even pay attention to him. sheesh.

music is fucking sacred

this shit was done in about 2002 surely
maybe turning a tasteful minimal house album into something that resembles a luc ferrari esque recontextualizion of pig death noises could hold the attention slightly longer

i don't think the "forcing" was the point

This thread is making me hungry

herbert is basically the biggest twat in modern music, regardless of whether this is cruel or not. he makes bono look classy.

Interesting that the abattoirs wouldn't let the sounds be recorded. Bet the noise is fucking horrible :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqks5Ltzp0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6JyRoQNiLQ

cool jams thx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEgIH0iPCwU

I enjoy pork, I just don't see the point in making music of my food's dying sounds

http://davidmbirchall.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/naked_lunch_prospectus.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRzW_tJg48A

Yeah, I don't really wanna watch that.

PIGS ARE SMARTER THAN DOGS OH THE HORROR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGiBJxy5T50

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq225/bctphotos/ham.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOs_a4iHQPY

http://www.homersteinweiss.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/hamandeggs.jpg

thanks so much sexydancer for putting the thought of john duncan's nightly pork sandwich into my mind

http://www.homersteinweiss.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/hamandeggs.jpg

Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork
Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork
Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork
Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork
Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork
Actually, since you asked, I had bacon in my lunch yesterday inside a club sandwich. I don't have a problem with meat as food, I eat it all the time, I enjoy pork

Big Up Chris Watson btw

http://touchshop.org/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=14

12. CRACKING VISCERA

Vultures taste the dry, crackling viscera inside the rib cage of a zebra carcass

FUCKED UP: ILXor "ilxor" Foiled in Plan to be Incensed at Conceptual Album

http://http.cdnlayer.com/smoola/00/00/47/ad538478f5d4e158_m.jpg

Needs a "Why Did Matthew Herbert Stop Recording Slaughtered Pigs after 2010?" thread.

since the bar is already as low as 'it is o k to kill animals so you can eat them', i don't see that anyone's really in a position to split hairs and give a shit whether there's some guy with a microphone in the room at the same time. sorry if everyone's reminded that sometimes pigs die.

ps, is this the guy who did the great vultures/zebra recording?

NUGE!

http://www.dpmsinc.com/awards/zone/animals/photos/ted-nugent-hog-large.jpg

this concept would be fucked up if it was the last pig on earth or something but I mean as long as there are other pigs that can fuck its cool

http://www.frakincool.com/images/kid-kissing-pig.jpg

xxxp Yeah it is, that whole album is golden

Because it strikes me as glorifying the animal's death, in a sense, to record its death meticulously and preserve the sounds of its tortured cries and squeals on an album and press it onto vinyl and put it into stores and call it music!

oh, he'll slice & dice it (the sounds, not the pig) until it's unrecognizable anyway, it just makes for a PR hook.

what else in on that record? i just heard that one recording on headphones & it's amazing.

btw if humans were processed for meat then i would jump at the chance for my death to be glorified prior to butchery.

ilxor what's for dinner tonight u fucking hypocrite

I'm vegan, and animal welfare supporter, I saw some good that could come from this project.

Looks like this pig has had a far better life than most (it was with its family on a small-holding farm).

While food animal living conditions have become far worse, the slaughterhouses are actually improving (not by their own choice mind you). Its in the intensive animal feeding operations where the vast majority of animal suffering occurs: isolation or aggression from crowding, nausea from abnormal foods, disrupted sleep cycles, ankle deep in feces and inhaling ammonia from concentrated urine, beaten and cowered by underpaid undertrained stock workers.

If UK slaughterhouses are anything like American ones (for beef & pigs, poultry slaughter is unregulated and horrifying), there's a fair chance Herbert's pig's final moments were accompanied by the buzz of an electric stun prods to temple and flank, followed by a slump unto a conveyor, a quick cut to the carotid, and various nondescript mechanical noises.

Won't put it inline, but famed autist Temple Grandin, PhD explains the proceedure, and its set to music in this fanvid of You're the One for Me, Fatty. On the other hand, if the pig had a traditional butchering, as in kosher/halal beef still do, then its fairly likely it experenced intense suffering and terror.

Okay so Matthew Herbert is impossibly overrated and gimmicky but if he uses the resultant samples to remix Shove Piggy Shove by LFO then I'm all for it.

in the UK the Now That's What I Call Music series was started by a pig

^^^ Under-rated classic material

come on this is just going to turn out to be another fiddly cut-up coffee table house album, right?

or, what Jordan said

A chance to cut is a chance to cured ham

He hasn't really done coffee table house for ages, afaik.

Which is a shame.

ha well you all would know more than i would! *shrug*

next he's doing an album where he records the sound of trees being cut down for coffee tables

ilxor protesting by sitting in the tree

I'm a vegetarian and the only way I'm offended by this is if he just releases it as some sort of Chris Watson type field recording when it's just kind of a dumb idea. If he sends the dying squeals through some filters to make it sound like acid squelches or something then that could be kinda rad.
xxxxxpost

i was gonna make a joke about recording the extraction process to make vinyl but that sounds kind of intersting 2 me tbh

packaging should be in some way edible or herb's missed a trick

Shd be field recordings available of everything imo

the real world is live field recordings of everything

matthew herbert foiled in plan to record the conception of a stockworker's child

It'd be ace if he used the pig sounds over some mentalist gabba tracks with a bunch of "Deliverance" samples tho.

the real world is live field recordings of everything

Yeah but you tend to have a limited selection available at any one time.

what about movies where they show peeps getting offed? snuff films? surely they're worse than this
cuz it's humans

FUCKED UP: ILXor "ilxor" Foiled in Plan to be Incensed at Conceptual Album

SAD: cutty foiled in plan to make funneh joke on ilm.

nope!

I'll update you on my dinner later tonight, btw, since you're interested.

derelict otm, im a vegetarian and i have no problem with this

yo is it true ilxor got sonned by a rican kid after a ilx pork beef??????

jesus i don't know what's worse like

OMG THIS JAZZY TECHNO JACKOFF IS MAKING DISGUSTING "MUSIC" OUT OF ANIMAL DEATH

or

STFU AND TAKE A HARD LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR BACON HITLERS!

?

lol @ BACON HITLERS

who wants to start a band with me

Bacon Hitler & the Luftwaffles

^ Your stage name could be Klaus Barbie Que

xp

i dont think stfu and take a look at urself is as hard a line as it cud b. I mean, shit like this happens, this pig prolly had it better than most, sorry if you think its like "distasteful" to use it like this, but his deathll be more productive than when ppl buy a rotisserie chicken and let it go off in the fridge b4 eating it.

do you ever think people are fronting with this OMG RECORDING A PIG shit nowadays

i really thought this gonna be abt a collab w/ fucked up btw esp after micachu

playing this over Shabbat dinner tomorrow night.

it will be made up entirely of sounds made during the life cycle of a pig.

surely requires m.herbert to go round ilxor's and record the sound of his furious, incredulous typing

surely requires m.herbert to go round ilxor's and record the sound of his furious, incredulous typing

A+

fuckin bacon hitlerz, oh boy!

http://www.viceland.com/int/v17n1/htdocs/ryan-comic-311.php

i'm sure v/vm already did this

packaging should be in some way edible or herb's missed a trick

I see what you did there

do you ever think people are fronting with this OMG RECORDING A PIG shit nowadays

― tza tziki sauce (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:29 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

<3

Okay, here's the thing: whether or not you find Herbert's whole deal annoying/dumb/whatever, one thing I've found is that it's anything but lazy or gimmicky -- you have to grant that the guy puts a ton of thought and mental connections into what he's doing, and why, and what he intends it to mean. So much thought, in fact, that you start to wonder how it's remotely worth it, given that most listeners do not care where that nanosecond sample of pig butchery comes from or why, absolutely -- but it's hard to say the guy is just fronting or trying to be interesting. Seriously, I did one of the longest interviews of my life with this guy, and failed to come up with a single question or challenge about his methods that he hadn't clearly thought through about a billion times more than any of his listeners ever will.

I mention that because ... there are a lot of artists who might record pig-slaughtering in a way that struck me as gross, ghoulish, or gimmicky -- "look at how hardcore our shit is" -- but for me, this guy presents as the opposite. He already made his whole Michael Pollan-ish record about food production, so following a pig's life cycle, coming from him, is going to be a hell of a lot more about how we eat and the implications of where it comes from than just wanting dying-pig sounds. (One of the justifications he gives for his methods, incidentally, is that it makes him engage with his subject matter -- e.g., sampling a pig's life forces him to confront and take seriously the part where the pig dies, and use the sounds in a serious way.)

Again, this is not to say that the music's good. (Which is Herbert's interview refrain, actually: "Not that this necessarily makes the music better!") Just saying that ... trust me, this dude has thought his shit through. He may be weird or wrong but he is a billion miles from unthinking of flip about this stuff.

itt crybabies.

altho herbert should go back to making good music and not conceptual shite

i.e.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okveMwUfxwc

Pardon me, unthinking OR flip. I mean, this is a guy who could probably answer questions for five straight hours about why it's important and meaningful for him to record a pig's life cycle. (Make of that fact what you will.)

Nabisco, you've nearly convinced me... congrats.

Really good post, as usual.

Ha -- I'm not trying to convince you he's worth your time or interest, or anything. But as far as whether he's really thinking about this stuff ... you can read some of his interviews. Every idea, theme, sound, concept, message -- he has everything connected in these ridiculously intricate ways.

Pig Destroyer should've done this first.

Yes, I'm with nabisco, it doesn't seem he intends to do it in bad taste as a morbid experiment. It's always the intentions behind the acts that count. Even the filthiest words can sound endearing if you say them in a friendly voice.

In my country bullfighting is common. I see around 5 or 6 bullfights per year because I enjoy them. It's not a morbid spectacle where people gather around to see a bleeding bull die. It's an undescribable thing, you really have to watch it to understand it, but once you're there you realize it's not as awful as you thought it would be. I took some American friends last year and they were really morbid about it, thinking it would be a roman coliseum of sorts... they were very impressed. It's actually beautiful and inspiring to see a bullfighter achieve artistic exaltation from the life/death transtition.

uhhhh no

I've been a vegetarian for four years so I can have my say in this manner without being hypocritical. What difference does it make to record the death of a pig? It's not like he asked the butcher to make the pig squeal as much as he could before killing it. Pigs are food for some people, deal with it.

lol i'm not veg in the slightest i was referring to your straight-fire fucked aside on bullfighting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCKvY684WI

I think it's sort of the same thing. An attempt to make art out of the killing of an animal.

But as far as whether he's really thinking about this stuff

This is what I was referring to, nabisco -- and it counts for something. I still don't have any interest in listening to the album, but granted I did make a pretty high-drama post when in reality, dude probably just is a really big sampling/conceptual electronic music nerd and just wants to do something super-intricate that happens to involve a dying pig.

and you're an idiot

come on, this 'if you eat pork sandwiches, you can't criticize him' is vegetarian bullshit. This is a very different case.

It's actually beautiful and inspiring to see a bullfighter achieve artistic exaltation from the life/death transtition.

Moka, you are one weird vegetarian.

i'm not a vegetarian.

Not everyone chooses not to eat meat b/c they care about animal rights.

but he cares about animal rights not to be recorded by musicians?

the pig had a no-taping policy and u won't respect it

yeah, i was responding to NickB's post. I got no clue why this thread exists.

but granted I did make a pretty high-drama post

still picturing dude at his keyboard, carefully crafting that first post, so pissed off at matthew herbert, while eating a bacon sandwich

just another high-drama day on ilx

"Thursday"

Not everyone chooses not to eat meat b/c they care about animal rights.

some people choose to be vegetarians just b/c they hate plants.

Fetchboy, if you're flashing your 'I'm a vegetarian' badge in a moral discussion, then it'd be pretty bogus if your meatlessness was due to health reasons or whatevers.

wait, this discussion is about morals again? i thought it was about high-falutin' conceptual electronic artists not being able to record something that was going to happen anyway.

"going to happen anyway"

because if it didn't the pig would be immortal and we'd all have bigger fish to fry

yes, i'm fairly sure that pig was going to be killed for food whether or not matthew herbert was involved. they wouldn't let him record, but they killed it anyway, right?

if herbert really wanted my respect he could've paid for the pig to go to night school

the album should end with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4

still picturing dude at his keyboard, carefully crafting that first post, so pissed off at matthew herbert, while eating a bacon sandwich

Made me LOL.

That first post was banged out in about 5 minutes, no edits. And I wasn't eating a bacon sandwich... ha ha ha.

My meatlessness is more due to general humanitarian and environmental reasons, which to me is still a moral issue. I think my original post makes it pretty clear that I'm not all that concerned with animal rights. I don't know what Moka's reasons are for being a vegetarian, but being one and seeing beauty and art in the thoughtful killing of an animal aren't mutually exclusive is all I was sayin.

if you're not nabisco, no one here wants you spending five minutes posting something

omt

omt nomt nomt

^ took less than 5 mins

ILXor sonned by some... wite cutty... over an AOL... pork

shit i can't make it work

cpt. save a hog

generally if it takes me more than 30 seconds to articulate something here, i delete it on move on

*and move on

i won't listen to this recording or whatever for a couple reasons: first is that i don't have any interest in hearing a pig die, second is that as a meat lover i'd rather not be reminded of my own hypocrisy.

if you're not nabisco, no one here wants you spending five minutes posting something

generally if it takes me more than 30 seconds to articulate something here, i delete it on move on

*and move on

You'd be fascinated to know, then, that my 5 minutes was about 30 seconds actually getting my thoughts down, and another 4 minutes and change copying/pasting from Herbert's pig death blog and formatting the post correctly for all the quotations.

Generally if it takes me more than 30 seconds to articulate something here, i delete it on move on.

* and move on.

speaking of moving on, this thread is now done. go yell at each other somewhere else.