Not so great debut albums by great acts

Tried to find a thread for this, but couldn't quite find it.

Ones I can think of to begin with are:

David Bowie
Van Morrison
Moody Blues (controversial, I know)
Matthew Sweet

the stone roses
moby grape
the sex pistols
guns and roses
jeff buckley

Cat Power, Dear Sir - apart from "Rockets," it really goes nowhere. I don't even own it anymore.

Midnight Oil, Midnight Oil (1978) - they still sounded like a (not very good) bar band. There is a huge leap in quality by the time of Head Injuries the following year.

Van Morrison

You're joking right?

The Beatles
T Rex
Underworld
Radiohead
Robbie Williams

Van Morrison

You're joking right?

― Deluxe Merseybeat Wig (Jack Battery-Pack), Saturday, March 20, 2010 3:49 PM

Blowin' Your Mind is alright, but considering the run that followed it over the next five or so year, it seems kind of... lacking.

The Afghan Whigs, Big Top Halloween - Some people really like this, but whatever they're hearing, I'm not.

girls aloud

aahh... I see... I don't really consider Blowin' Your Mind the debut album...

Love Bowie's early Tony Newley stuff

I haven't heard that first album GZA released as The Genius, but I assume it belongs to this category.

The Who - "The Who Sings My Generation"

Tempted to add 'Big Star' and then open the window and listen for Geir exploding half way across the continent....

Seriously, Mott the Hoople
Talk Talk
Sonic Youth
Replacements
Husker Du

"The Party's Over" yet even much better than "#1 Album".....

Talking Heads '77

Really? It's far from their best but it's still a great album imo

mobb deep
sleater-kinney
aimee mann

Really? It's far from their best but it's still a great album imo

A very good, often excellent, but not great.

Hahaha well yeah maybe but hardly in the spirit of this thread title then

The Kinks
Willie Nelson

Japan - Adolescent Sex

aimee mann

Wow. Whatever is one of my top 10 albums of all time, and has what I think are several of her greatest songs: Could've Been Anyone, I Could Hurt You Now, Fifty Years After The Fair, 4th of July . . . in fact, now that I think about it, it's far better than its followup!

Like Flies on Sherbet *ducks*

I'm going to head into potential challop territory here, but I have to say Queen. I LOVE Queen II, but Queen I starts off with a great opener ("Keep Yourself Alive"), and...heads right into a boring ballad. And never really recovers.

Abba
My Bloody Valentine
Eurythmics (maybe)

Eminem (W.E.G.O.)

err my bad the album was "Infinite"

Al Stewart - Bedsitter Images
Van der Graaf Generator - The Aerosol Grey Machine
Peter Hammill - Fools Mate
Genesis - From Genesis to Revelation

Def Leppard

Japan

...oops, someone beat me to that one.

the stone roses

Whaaaa???

Judas Priest (Rocka Rolla=zzzzzzzzzzzz other than a few tracks)
Meshuggah (they were fairly boring until they reinvented themselves and became legendary)

Lucinda Williams - Ramblin'
10,000 Maniacs - Secrets of the I Ching
Cowboy Junkies - Whites off Earth Now
Kraftwerk - Kraftwerk
Dead Can Dance - Dead Can Dance
Cocteau Twins - Garlands
Fairport Convention - Fairport Convention

Squeeze

ZZ Top

the stone roses

Whaaaa???

Think the joke is that the Stone Roses were fucking shit, but that precludes the "great acts" bit of the title.

Shania Twain

Nirvana - Bleach
Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan
Neil Young - Neil Young
Drive-By Truckers - Gangstabilly

Prince's first album doesn't compare favorably to the rest of his work.

Go-Betweens - Send Me a Lullaby

Bleach is awesome

Joni Mitchell
the kinks

The Tragically Hip
Led Zeppelin (some good tunes, but its probably my least favourite overall)

New Order - Movement

Blur - Leisure

The Jam - In The City

Springsteen, circa "Human Touch".

Queen is actually a very good call.

Public Enenmy

The Divine Comedy

Amazed that somebody listed Moby Grape's first. Isn't that far and away the only record they're (justifiably, I'd say, most of it's pretty great) famous for? The obvious answer for me is Neil Young's first, althought I do love two or three songs. Husker Du, too, although there's so little continuity between their first and what followed, it may as well have been a different band.

Neil Young's first is a good album IMO. Maybe not as good as the next three, but still good.

Can an album be "good" and "not so great" at the same time? I think so. It's like how the sky can be "partly sunny" and "mostly cloudy" at once.

That said, Alice Cooper.

I would say no, which is why I didn't mention Genesis in my original post. "From Genesis To Revelation" is surely among my least favourite Genesis albums, but still has kind of a charm in its own Bee Gees/Monkees-like way.

Obvious one, but Pulp and 'It'

.... which reminds me, Michael Jackson made 4 solo albums before Off the Wall....

I guess it's interesting to look at what these albums are missing that made the later records good - I think a lot of them fall under the category of 'Still too much in thrall to their influences but not without promise'.

That said, Alice Cooper.

Heresy.

T. Rex

MADNESS

.... which reminds me, Michael Jackson made 4 solo albums before Off the Wall....

His solo debut was probably his best solo album until "Off The Wall" though.

Everclear
Kid Rock

Technically I guess Eminem (Infinite) and Warren Zevon (Wanted Dead Or Alive), right? Though I've never heard either of them.

Zep, Lep, Public Enemy, and Replacements (one of their best albums) dead wrong btw. (I don't understand what the Springsteen vote means, but his actual debut was great too.)

Had no idea that Underworld had an album that charted in the U.S. (but not the U.K.!) in 1988; that's crazy. Now I really want to hear it.

jeff buckley

― henri grenouille (Frogman Henry), Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:44 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

is this some pedantic shit where a live EP is considered a debut album, or is there actually someone who considers Jeff Buckley a great artist but doesn't like Grace?

thisisILMdude.gif

Celtic Frost
Voivod

(Guarantee some extreme metalheads will disagree w/ those, though -- especially Frost.)

Might get some heat for this, but neither Wilco nor Spoon's debuts strikes me as "great" records. Same as Animal Collective's--or, indeed, their first few.

I think Telephono by Spoon's fab!

is there actually someone who considers Jeff Buckley a great artist but doesn't like Grace?

Amazed that somebody listed Moby Grape's first

I don't even consider Jeff Buckley "good", but just noticed that the same guy who named him and Moby Grape also named the Sex Pistols and GnR. Attempted joke post, obv.

I think the person listing Jeff Buckley,Moby Grape,Guns And Roses,Sex Pistols was being 'ironic'...so shocked to see Prince and Japan in this list...although I can understand people not liking these albums I think both these albums are classics...

American Music Club

The Horrors will one day belong on this list.

Can an album be "good" and "not so great" at the same time? I think so.

Uh, of course. "Good" by its nature means "not so great." A B+ is not an A+.

Hmm...

Colloquially, not so great means 'average', not just 'not exceptional'- because there's a big difference between first records that are good but just not as good as what was to come - which would probably mean a majority of bands with more than 2-3 records: Kinks, Who,the Dan, the Bee Gees, The Byrds, Love, Beefheart -all arguably, of course - and so on, nearly endlessly, and bands whose first record gave no clue at all (or very little) of what was to come.

shocked to see Prince ...I think both these albums are classics...

For You, really?? I honestly don't think I've ever heard anybody make that claim before. (The self-titled second one is indeed great, though; in fact, not very many albums he's done since are better.)

Sleater-Kinney
Yo La Tengo
Built To Spill

I don't see that Prince really was finding himself until "Dirty Mind". But the first two both have their moment.

whoever said Kraftwerk needs to lay off the crack.

The Horrors will one day belong on this list.

I knew that was coming!

"whoever said Kraftwerk needs to lay off the crack."

agreed. i also love the first zep and dylan records. i prefer other dylan records more but still consider the debut great. and the first zep has such an amazing mix of sounds - i still love the beautiful, flowing black mountain side followed by the punk-y communication breakdown. and the exquisite organ intro to your time is gonna come...wow. 'not so great' not at all.

Is loving a record the same as thinking it's great?

The Smiths.

uh, no.

Oh yes.

no

What saves The Smiths is the memory of how bad Meat is Murder remains.

It's my fave Smiths album.

And here I thought it was "Reel Around the Fountain", "Pretty Girls Make Graves", "This Charming Man", "Still Ill", "Hand in Glove" & "What Difference Does It Make?"

x-post

Only like two of those.

They did much, much better after 1986.

again - uh, no.

aimee mann

Wow. Whatever is one of my top 10 albums of all time, and has what I think are several of her greatest songs: Could've Been Anyone, I Could Hurt You Now, Fifty Years After The Fair, 4th of July . . . in fact, now that I think about it, it's far better than its followup!

― Like a sausage or snake, smooth and soft (Pancakes Hackman), Saturday, 20 March 2010 12:53 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I guess. There are some great songs on Whatever but there is also lots of stuff that is pretty unremarkable filler. Mr. Harris is my jam still.

Technically I guess Eminem (Infinite) and Warren Zevon (Wanted Dead Or Alive), right? Though I've never heard either of them.

been a long time since i've heard that zevon album (though i still own it), but my memory of it is, yeah, it's pretty much unlistenable. he waited seven years to follow it up, and got way better in the meantime.

the kinks and beatles answers are both wrong.

Tangerine Dream

This thread has already made me hate many people.

Infinite is ok but nothing really stands out like the rest of his early stuff (Any Man, Just Don't Give A Fuck, Demon Inside). Better than Relapse anyway.

Led zep answer is crazy

Quick somebody challops w/sabbath so I can stop bothering to open this thread

Led Zep is the craziest answer yet, I guess. "Led Zeppelin" may well be close to my favourite album by them.

(Or, well, OK, I guess Talk Talk is craziest of all, but I know it's a usual opinion)

Listening to Zeppelin I this morning and I take back it back. Dazed and Confused is perhaps my least favourite song though. I'll blame the ubiquitousness of that video clip for it that was always on during their mid 90s revival.

Gangstarr

In the vein of Zevon, T Bone Burnett has kind of disowned his 1972 album J. Henry Burnett - The B-52 Band and the Fabulous Skylarks.

Wire (just kidding)

Magma
XTC
Stereolab
Yes
King Crimson
Deerhoof
The Beach Boys
Queen
Boredoms
The Knife

mostly about right, but KING CRIMSON?! opening track alone makes that album an all-time classic

Creedence Clearwater Revivial

Did a double-take when I saw Deerhoof, then remembered 'Holdypaws.'

King Crimson is the craziest suggestion yet. That album remains their best (and, no, not because of the opening track. The title track is ace though).

I think Telephono by Spoon's fab!

― Alex in NYC, Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:53 AM (Yesterday)

AGREED! To my mind, they've never equaled that debut.

Bleach is awesome
― here come the friday afternoon dick emoticons (latebloomer), Saturday, March 20, 2010 2:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

I think Telephono by Spoon's fab!

― Alex in NYC, Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:53 AM (Yesterday)

AGREED! To my mind, they've never equaled that debut.

I like it, but I certainly don't think it was great, nor do I think it's stood unsurpassed by their subsequent releases. Does everyone here think Telephono's that good? Better than Kill the Moonlight or, for that matter, anything that's come out since A Series of Sneaks?

I like some albums of theirs more than others, but Telephono is unto itself a great thing (and my favorite Spoon album).

Scorpions
Thin Lizzy
UFO
Tim Buckley
Roy Harper
John Martyn

I totally disagree with The Jam, XTC and Japan, all great debuts.

White Music withers against what XTC would go on to do.

In the Court, too. I don't mind 21st Schizoid, but it's one KC track where the vocals do get annoying. Fripp had some strange taste in vocalists over the years. They should have gone completely instrumental or got someone like Bjork to sing.

I don't like "White Music" too much, but it's still a lot better than "Go 2".

And, no, King Crimson's choice of vocalists were great. Much greater than the choice of instrumentalists for the most part. They still would have benefited from sounding a lot more like Genesis and Yes and a lot less like Zappa and Roxy Music though.

Dead Can Dance - Dead Can Dance
Cocteau Twins - Garlands

So wrong.

Yeah, I kind of hate Garlands too.

The Fall - Live at the Witch Trials
The Birthday Party
Björk ('77 album)
Yes
Fennesz - Hotel Parl.lel
Slapp Happy - Sort of

The Fall - Live at the Witch Trials

One of my favorite albums by them; maybe my favorite, period. So, no.

I don't feel like MES had quite found his voice yet; he seems a little pretentious here though he would earn his fantastic, ghoulish otherness quickly afterward. Meanwhile the music is sort of busy, almost proggy, which isn't necessarily a problem but it's not what I love The Fall for. It might be their least characteristic album, though I know plenty of people love it (maybe partly for that reason?).

Dead Can Dance - Dead Can Dance
Cocteau Twins - Garlands

So wrong.

Both of these groups went on to far better things as their sound got fuller and richer. These debut albums are where they picked up their goth following which they spent the rest of their careers trying to shake off.

mostly about right, but KING CRIMSON?! opening track alone makes that album an all-time classic

maybe... but does one all-time classic, unassailable track really make a whole album great? tbh, I find the rest of the album a bit of a drag after 'schizoid man'.

Fripp had some strange taste in vocalists over the years. They should have gone completely instrumental or got someone like Bjork to sing.

100%, though I'd argue that 'schizoid man' is one of the few exceptions to this. the distortion on the vocals makes it pretty much instrumental anyway.

Quick somebody challops w/sabbath so I can stop bothering to open this thread

well, again... the first track and 'NIB' are godlike, but the rest? good, but not great. even if 'black sabbath' (the track) is perhaps their finest hour, overall, the debut's not in the same league of uninterrupted awesomeness as paranoid or master of reality.

The Who - "The Who Sings My Generation"

NO! It's great.

maybe... but does one all-time classic, unassailable track really make a whole album great? tbh, I find the rest of the album a bit of a drag after 'schizoid man'.

The rest of the album (to a much bigger extent than "20th Century Scizoid Man" defined what symphonic rock would sound like and was perhaps the one most important influence on the likes of Yes, Genesis, Camel and ELP. King Crimson then (or at least after their third or fourth album) went on to become something else. But that album still stands as a pinnacle in the history of symphonic rock, as the blueprint more or less.

XTC

You're insane.

No, even Andy Partridge doesn't like White Music that much!

But that album still stands as a pinnacle in the history of symphonic rock, as the blueprint more or less

In The Court of the Crimson King is not "symphonic rock".

In the Court...is just boring. Listen to Red/Starless/Lark's!

Tim McGraw
Toby Keith
Kenny Chesney

(x-post) You can be bored by anything you wish to be bored by, or think Red is a better record or whatever, but anyone arguing that King Crimson's isn't a great debut album is flat-out wrong.

^^^

Sub-genre: pesky albums recorded prior to the big lable launch that come back to haunt you. See Emmylou Harris' "Gliding Bird" or Prince's "Minneapolis Genius"

xp so even if you think it's boring, you should acknowledge its greatness? I don't think that's how it works.

I can understand where you are coming from. Surely, you like the highly experimental and anarchistic King Crimson of the mid 70s, but you are not to big on more traditional symphonic rock. "In The Court Of The Crimson King" is more Yes and less Zappa than later King Crimson, and it may not be your thing for that reason.

I guess I feel the same about Moody Blues. Very tempted to mention their debut here, because it is in a genre that I have never seen much value in, while I think they got brilliant later on. People who dislike pretentious baroque pop concept albums and love British 60s R&B probably see it in a completely different way though.

Cocteau Twins - Garlands

this is the best Cocteaus album by miles

depeche mode

SCOTT

Queen's first one is pretty great.

also The Knife is better than Deep Cuts

xp scott? really? it's the weakest of the first four, but I'd still easily place it in the 'great' category without a moment's hesitation.

RE King Crimson and boredom: Not to get all Captain Canon, but I think the multitudes of critics and fans who have found Crimson's combination of rock-jazz-classical stunning (in 1969 and now) trump the bored naysayers.

I can acknowledge greatness in records I personally find boring, or overrated, or simply hate, from Sgt. Pepper to Sonic Youth, if the performance is in some way unique or precedent-setting.

SCOTT

― piscesx, Monday, March 22, 2010 5:30 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

xp scott? really? it's the weakest of the first four, but I'd still easily place it in the 'great' category without a moment's hesitation.

― m the g, Monday, March 22, 2010 5:33 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

not only is scott GREAT, but sometimes i think it's his best album. it's ALWAYS better than 2, which is so so so overrated.

Divine Comedy
Pulp
Prince
New Order
Magnetic Fields
Simple Minds (They qualify as they were a great act for the next five albums)

I've only heard half of the album but I'm sure The Boo Radleys would belong here.

With the ones suggested already I would strongly second the Go Betweens, Blur and Radiohead.

Magnetic Fields

quite possibly their best album.

Maybe I should go back to it. I don't remember enjoying it at all and I do like some of their earlier albums, especially Holiday.

I really can't imagine it being better than 69 Love Songs though.

it's different than 69 love songs, that's for sure. i could make a case for almost any mag fields album thru (and including) 69ls as being their best, including holiday, though i find that one maddeningly uneven. distant plastic trees has -- besides susan anway, who i'm reasonably sure is the best singer who's ever tackled a stephin merritt song -- "you love to fail," "falling in love with the wolfboy" and merritt's masterpiece, "100,000 fireflies." among others. i miss the mag fields as synth poppers.

Creedence Clearwater Revivial

The debut is probably my favourite of their first five (I've never heard the last two).

RE King Crimson and boredom: Not to get all Captain Canon, but I think the multitudes of critics and fans who have found Crimson's combination of rock-jazz-classical stunning (in 1969 and now) trump the bored naysayers.

I can acknowledge greatness in records I personally find boring, or overrated, or simply hate, from Sgt. Pepper to Sonic Youth, if the performance is in some way unique or precedent-setting.

see, I don't think greatness resides in consensus, which is largely meaningless, but in the reactions of individuals. the naysayers are just as 'right' as the supporters. uniqueness and innovation are an entirely different category of judgement than 'great' - the former can be value-free, the latter never can.

not only is scott GREAT, but sometimes i think it's his best album. it's ALWAYS better than 2, which is so so so overrated.

4 is usually the one that gets the most effusive praise, but my own favourite, 80% of the time, is 3.

hell, they're all good.

this may be CONTROVERSIAL and i've admittedly not listened to it in years, but tracking down Randy Newman's s/t after obsessing over 12 Songs, Good Ol Boys and Sail Away was rather disappointing. "Love Story", a couple of others excepted obv.

The Fall - Live at the Witch Trials

One of my favorite albums by them; maybe my favorite, period. So, no.

yeah much <3 for that one.

Regarding "Speak & Spell", it's a very different album from what Depeche Mode would become known as later, but it's still a nice little synthpop album and not at all bad.

I've seen at least a dozen debuts I personally love so far

re: Randy Newman's s/t -- i like it, but it's nowhere near as good as what came after. Great songs, but there are better versions by other artists ...

Creedence Clearwater Revivial

― kornrulez6969, Sunday, March 21, 2010 9:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Creedence Clearwater Revivial

The debut is probably my favourite of their first five (I've never heard the last two).

― Gavin in Leeds, Monday, March 22, 2010 7:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

first creedence is nowhere near as good as cosmo's factory or green river, and only a little closer to bayou country or willy and the poorboys. however, saying it is "not so great" is seriously retarded.

No, even Andy Partridge doesn't like White Music that much!

That doesn't mean I have to agree with him. I'm not worried about what he likes, I'm worried about what I, and I'll take White Music over virtually everything that came after Oranges & Lemons every day of the week.

ABBA good call. "Ring Ring" is hardly essential (and the first Björn and Benny album even less so)

Lot of knives being thrown. Different strokes for different folks, indeed.

And when I say something is 'boring', I'm voicing my own feelings on the music, what it does for me, how often I want to listen to it. In no way is 'boring', a unilateral slight on a piece of art set to invalidate its stature and its supporters.

I'll take White Music over virtually everything that came after Oranges & Lemons every day of the week.

Hell, I might take it over anything after Drums and Wires! What the heck does Andy Partridge know, anyway? "Radios In Motion" and "This Is Pop?" are up there with anything they ever did!

And I'm not sure Depeche Mode ever topped their debut, either.

What about the Stones? Their s/t debut is ok (edit, the version of Not Fade Away is great) but don't think anyone would remember them if this was all they ever did.

They'd be remembered as one out of several British R&B bands, but they surely wouldn't have had quite the same position.

ABBA definitely. Some of the other suggestions here are insane.

first creedence... saying it is "not so great" is seriously retarded.

Well I think it's seriously retarded to say that it's retarded to say that the first Creedence record is not so great.

Maybe we should have set up some ground rules on what makes an album a "not so great debut album!"

1. album must be not so great

hmm, this isn't helping

2. If I say it's not great, it's not great.

"Not so great" may be hard to define. For me, when I used the term, I thought of it as kind of an understatement, meaning not at all great. In which case I guess the first Creedence doesn't qualify even though it is obviously not as good as the ones that followed.

Bee Gees? I've never been clear on whether they released a "real" album before 1st.

I do believe they released some albums when they lived in Australia and were indeed very young.

"The Bee Gees 1st" is their best ever album, so it would be madness to namecheck that one in this thread.

Tool. Aenima/Lateralus/10,000 Days >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opiate & Undertow

that is 100% backwards

I've never heard Opiate. I was always put off by the COMPLETELY TERRIBLE cover.

Blondie