Laura Marling - I Speak Because I Can

So the first album didn't generate much discussion here but it really crept up on me at the start of last year. I listened to the new one on the way into work and it sounds great, darker and angrier but the second half is uniformly fantastic.

I sort of resent her being lumped in with a lot of these ropey student folk bands that are knocking around at the moment, because this really doesn't feel like the work of a teenager at all. Anyway, talk amongst yourselves.

yeah, been listening to this a lot this weekend - it's kind of a revelation, really, in that it marks laura marling out as a pretty singular talent - i loved the debut, but it was almost as if it had happened accidentally, like she'd just been singing and composing these songs in her bedroom and they just happened to be really good. here, it seems consciously both ambitious and a progression from the simplicity of the debut - she's singing with a real grit and authority now.

this is the single, "devil's spoke" (which we covered on the jukebox too) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QirL0HXnyS4

and this is the song that's grabbed me most so far, "alpha shallows" -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsO6SQAzZxI

also, this song came out on a between-album EP, and it's more in the style of the first album, but it's really awesome if you missed it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxar07_9YA

No Hope In The Air was the one that really stuck out for me on first listen.

Wow. Alpha Shadows is pretty amazing.

Pretty much not my kind of thing, but I've been impressed with it. I wish I heard less obvious echo of Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and Joni Mitchell (but maybe that's just me not being into the overall genre much to begin with). But I think I also hear something of her own and I like some of the twists the music takes.

She does sing with authority and she does sound mature beyond her years. I find the interviews interesting when she talks about being exposed in the media in the past and essentially learning how to set up boundaries. She seems to have well-developed defenses at this point, as though she instantly learned her lesson and has come out of it with exactly the toughness she needs to deal with all of that.

(but maybe that's just me not being into the overall genre much to begin with

Also, I admit my naming those names may just indicate my general ignorance of the folk traditions this is rooted in. I may just be hearing the genre, or there may be more appropriate comparisons to make to less well known singers.)

Yeah it doesn't really remind me of any of them, she actually reminds me of Will Oldham more than anyone else. If Will Oldham could be bothered to put his back into it a bit.

this album kind of took me by surprise. i got it on a whim based on someone talking it up in the female singer-songwriters thread and have probably listened to it more than anything else in the time since. devil's spoke and goodbye england are both pretty wonderful.

I'll echo all the praise here. I usually like my singer songwriters to have a bit of a twist to their sound and straight 'folk' doesn't usually engage me. But this feels very folky (in the sense of the guitar tunings/pickings and the arrangements) but at the same time utterly compelling.

Her voice really reminds me of someone but I can't quite put my finger on who. There's a bit of Joni Mitchell there when she sings in the higher register, but that's not often and it's not Joni who I'm thinking of. This will nag me all week, I suspect.

I have spoken about it elsewhere but it is excellent and I'm pleased to see the critical acclaim coming round to think of much of her as much as I do.

Her voice really reminds me of someone but I can't quite put my finger on who.

I know what you mean, it's been niggling at me the past couple of days as I've played the record. Her voice, especially on Devil's Spoke, is strongly reminiscent of someone, but I can't place who. Though I would say that elsewhere there's something of the Nick Drake to her voice as well. Just to throw another folky onto the ever-growing pile.

Liking the hell out of this album though. I thought the 'Alas' LP was nice enough, but didn't really grab me, and I wasn't expecting too much with this new one but it might be my favourite of the year so far, over even Joanna Newsom.

Devil's Spoke is a lot like the theme to Deadwood, I reckon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B909njPoX7k

i really like this.

she was really, really good live the other night, too. a pleasing tinge of pj harvey on her lower, more intense notes

which is not something i imagined i'd be saying about laura marling two years ago

listened to a bunch of her on youtube

def have to say: the less trad singer-songwriter relationship stuff and the more dark and witchy i gets, the better (for me)

Yeah it doesn't really remind me of any of them, she actually reminds me of Will Oldham more than anyone else. If Will Oldham could be bothered to put his back into it a bit.

― Matt DC, Monday, March 22, 2010 6:11 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark

i hear that connection a lot more than the others mentioned too.

also, for the promo of her first album she was often citing him as an influence.

Okay, so I've just ordered some tickets for her show at the Alexander theatre in Brum next month. She must be doing something right then, as I don't often go to gigs anymore, let alone ones where I'll be seated in the dress circle, and not crushing plastic lager beakers underfoot, trying to elbow some room in the crowd in front of a stage.

fucking wish i could've seen her at a seated gig from the dress circle, she was amazing live the other night but that was the first time i'd set foot in the london barfly and just UGH UGH UGH GRIMNESS - the sauna-like temperature, the sardine-packed crowd, the rude indie kids, so intolerable

I got yr tweets from the Barfly and have to say that the mental image was simply hilarious, Lex.

You kind of realise a lot of what's wrong with British "indie" when you see this place that's supposed to be the pinacle of Britindie and "legendary" and it's just such a horrible space.

"Witchy" is a problematic word, but I kinda understand what you're getting at. That she manages to capture a certain otherness in a way that displays strength without descending into that kind of (ugh) etherial girl nonsense.

Isn't that like every 'legendary' venue (100 club, CBGB's, etc) that in reality is a 'horrible space'?

Barfly is no longer UK indie capital at all: it gets very few notable gigs now. The centre of indie gravity has moved east.

I hate this having never heard it, purely on the strength of the giant billboard for it on Broadway Market which looks like some kind of retro perfume ad.

btw that's a great, insightful review, mitchell - enjoyed reading it

I've been listening to this one all day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt1dmt-Zqyc

Went to the Alexandra theatre concert last night. I thought the theatre setting would be something I would enjoy, but it kind of got in the way for me. I wanted to be in the thick of a crowd in front of the stage, not sat up in the dress circle, forced to be next to a canoodling couple who were only interested in each other. That put a slight dampener on things but, damn, Laura was spellbinding. Completely bowled over by this girl and her music atm tbh.

Might go and see her show at the Hay Festival, another slightly odd setting I suppose.

Didn't realize we had a thread for this. Saw her before the new album came out at Le Poisson Rouge and she was great. Let me echo everyone saying that the new album is great.

she is good. amazing voice.

2 surprising facts:
1.she is only 20.
2.she's from england.

makes ger record even better.

Digging her cover of The Needle And The Damage Done. Sounds exactly like you expect it to, but so so good.

her cover of "blues run the game," on the other side of that 7", is also superb.

i think i was expecting something poppier & more wistful like aimee mann on 'ghost world' but this record is p authorial and distanced... covering neil young feels a lot more appropriate than i wouldve guessed

Her taste in boyfriends puts me off but not enough to think the last record is anything other than beautiful and wonderful.

sadly used to my favourite female artists having THE WORST taste in men.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/mezxspectrum/marlingmailer-1.jpg

http://images2.playserver1.com/ProductImages/0/6/3/5/7/4/0/2/20475360_300x300_1.jpg

oh shit exciting!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvd_tvffGbc&feature=player_embedded#at=46

aww, she's blonde again.

nagl

why is her music so horrible

I don't mind her, but I'm sure Charlie Fink, the singer of Noah And The Whale, is responsible for at least some of her alleged horridness....

Saw her in Edinburgh opening fro Daniel Johnston, she said "You know, I think I'm going to live here some day" and loads of posh girls made a gurgling noise.

YOW

http://pitchfork.com/forkcast/16104-sophia/

yeuch

Third album already? Blimey, this is a pleasant surprise.

It's a cracker, too.

She's playing a series of gigs in cathedrals in the autumn.

Oh, that song took off rather expectedly and in a rather lovely direction. This will be good.

She was amazing at Glastobury, such total command of the stage and her material while barely moving.

I want to express my heartfelt disappointment in some of you for liking this terrible music. kthxbai

sadly turangalila not otm :(

love this song

cosign

Saw her at union chapel opening for Daniel Johnston. Cathedral gigs will be great for her thing if that night was anything to go by.

why is her music so horrible

― We make bouquets that fade immediately. (Turangalila), Saturday, June 25, 2011 4:38 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I want to express my heartfelt disappointment in some of you for liking this terrible music. kthxbai

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:11 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

needs more elaboration not to be written off as a bot

The music is just offensive to me in its banality. I find her lethargic & droney vocals offputting. The arrangements are also so repulsively generic - like when the drums come in on this new song, it enters the realm of grocery music.

I don't understand what makes her songwriting special, and I don't understand why anyone should be listening to her and not 1000000000000 female singer-songwriters from the 70s who did this sort of thing more adventurously.

grocery store music*

damn this is a total jam.

I dunno. Perhaps if you could provide a list of the top 10 or 12 female folk singer-songwriters of the 70s who are soooo much more "adventurous", that we should be listening to instead of Laura Marling, I might accept this as valid criticism based on an understanding of the dynamics of songwriting, instead of this kind of kneejerk "don't listen to this new thing, listen to these old canonically accepted things instead" reaction.

(With also this side order (admittedly perhaps projected) tinge of a sneer of why bother listening to female singer songwriters at all, they're just this faceless mass of banality? It really smacks of "there can be only one"-ism.)

I find her music powerful, her voice compelling, her storytelling unique and yet with achetypical roots which harken to a deep familiarity. It speaks to me. I don't feel the need to compare every little thing to what's gone before, if it's done well and in a way that captures my attention.

A top 10 would be impossible to do - there's so much to choose from. But, some recommendations off the top of my head, not necessarily from the 70s:

Wendy & Bonnie, that beautiful Chimera album from 1969, Margo Guryan, Sibylle Baier, Veronique Chalot, that nice new Carol Kleyn reissue, Bridget St. John, Connie Converse, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Judee Sill, Suzy Mangion, those early Elżbieta Adamiak recordings, etc.

(With also this side order (admittedly perhaps projected) tinge of a sneer of why bother listening to female singer songwriters at all, they're just this faceless mass of banality? It really smacks of "there can be only one"-ism.)
Yes, you're clearly projecting, as 'female singer-songwriters' constitute a large percentage of what I listen to on a daily basis.

Note how a lot of the above are not *canonically accepted*, save for a couple. And if they are, so what? They were great.

My apologies.

But at the same time, it might have been a better tack to come in and maybe share some of those reference points to start with as a pointer, rather than just shout at us as being stupid for liking an artist that clearly is speaking to us.

But the thing is, although there are some artists on your list who I know and genuinely love, and others I am indifferent to mildly hostile to, and a few more I've never heard - I get something different from Laura Marling than I get from those artists - and I have room in my life for both (all) of them

Fair enough. My first comment re: being disappointed was, well, quite obviously in jest (didn't the 'ktxhbai' give it away?)

i have no beef w/laura marling, but i always like to take the opportunity to tell people that they owe it to themselvees to check out the still active and non-canonical Nina Nastasia, quite simply one of the truly great singers, songwriter, and performer in the world today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyTjChNg9M4&feature=related

Seconded. Her recent record was very beautifully arranged.

For more discussion of female singer-songwriters (btw, I don't see why older artists AND laura marling can't both be excellent): Songs Are Like Tattoos: Female Singer-Songwriter Rolling Thread

Mordy, of course both contemporary and older can be excellent. It's just my opinion that she *very clearly* comes from a tradition in which, again imo, she doesn't particularly stand out as something worthy of acclaim. The reason I mentioned the other artists was because I normally do adore this sort of music.

I dunno. The thing I sometimes find is, if there's an artist who is operating ostensibly within a genre I normally adore, and IDGI and ppl who don't normally like that genre* are all over it, I sometimes have to question their tastes and think they don't know what they're talking about, and sometimes I have to question whether that artist has been correctly assigned to the "right" genre in the first place.

*this might not be true for others on this thread, obv, but I kinda have ~problematics~ with the "female singer songwriter" genre as a whole, so it doesn't really surprise me if a "female singer songwriter" that I unreservedly love would not quite hit the mark for someone who is really invested with that ouvre.

I have to question whether that artist has been correctly assigned to the "right" genre in the first place.
Hey, if the shoe fits. All the signifiers are there. She's clearly not doing sprechstimme & harp punk or something.

Oh let's not do this, OK? Because if your signifiers are "female" and "writes songs, maybe even with a guitar" you already know what the problem is there.

like i like laura marling fine but are you really suggesting she's not operating within a pretty defined early 70sish UKish female folk singer songwriter tradition? like i feel like you're trying to argue that Jet doesn't sound like 70s hard rock or something

xp I meant compositional signifiers - from chord progressions to the arrangements - independent of gender. But yeah, let's not do this. Clearly, the fact that I don't like her makes me a misogynist, despite the fact that I make it my life purpose to seek out unrecognized female composers.

xp exactly.

I genuinely think there is actually a little more to her than just "70sish UKish female folk singer songwriter tradition" which is perhaps why she's appealing to people outside of the usual demographic for that "genre", yes.

"influenced by" - sure (with all the problems that Mark S would have pointed out with that term) but "no larger than the area defined by" - no, not at all. And her wider appeal is the result of that.

her wider appeal probably has a lot to do w/marketing than anything else and the fact that she's not an obscure artist from the 70s with out of print albums

i think it speaks more the fact that a lot of that stuff could appeal to a wider audience if they actually heard it, and laura marling has been placed in front of them and marketed

Because if your signifiers are "female" and "writes songs, maybe even with a guitar" you already know what the problem is there.
I love how you answer things for me just to make it fit your agenda.

And thank you, upper mississippi sh@kedown. I am out.

The lesson learned is Laura Marling belongs to an ineffable new genre where she is peerless.

Turangalila, don't be disengenous, I'm not suggesting that you dislike her because you're a misogynist, but because you are, self-admittedly, very invested with one particular *facet* of a genre which has a lot less to do with gender and a lot more to do with genre and time and place. That you are looking for unknown 60s/70s lady singer-songwriters with a heavy folk influence but also a highly recognisable style and timeframe and all the trimmings associated with that, that thing you like.

And you see someone who is a lady songwriter, has a folk influence, but doesn't meet all those other criteria - it's fine to say "I should like this, but I don't" but it's like you have established parameters that are really wide, and then castigate someone for not meeting a tiny subset of them.

I have also admitted to liking some of Laura's contemporaries. So, no, you're wrong. I castigate her for being awful.

But, you know, because it's me speaking, it's easier to just read "OMG SHE'S CALLING ME A MISOGYNIST" into anything I say.

"Female singer songwriter" is a really huge category. Karin Dreijer Andersson is a female singer songwriter. So is Emma Anderson. But they don't meet the criteria that you are looking for. And it's entirely possible that Laura Marling, despite the fact she's a young woman who likes folksongs and carries a guitar, might also be, you know, part of another category? That appeals to, f'instance, PJ Harvey fans, (which me and Lex and Matt all are) rather than Margo Guryan fans?

But, you know, it's easier to imply that I'm a shrieky feminist and not have to engage with what I'm saying than to talk about that, I guess.

I'm not actually interested in Laura Marling up against the backdrop of other acoustic singer-songwriters because her music is so bound up in her voice and personality. It's perfectly possible to enjoy her in complete isolation.

Add me to the list of PJ Harvey fans. I'm aware there are different subsets of female singer-songwriters. I was very clearly alluding to a particular subset and not, you know, Karin Dreijer Andersson.

Laura, btw, sounds nothing like PJ Harvey and has none of the qualities that make PJ Harvey so striking.

Matt DC also very much OTM.

I think the division here could be continental. Laura Marling reminds me less of any of Turangalila's aforementioned s/s's and more of Roy Harper in her delivery and "British blues" chord choices...

Roy Harper made beautiful music, though.

Well, the only thing I can say for sure about your taste in music is that you'll express it with superlatives.

As oppposed to?

Tempering your mondo emotions with sensitivity, I dunno.

I guess in one way it's good to have a hater come in a thread and flap their mouth off about the artist being discussed, because it does force you to think more clearly about what it is about that artist that you really like as opposed to going "omg, so good!" over and over.

It's not so much that Laura Marling "sounds like" PJ Harvey (she doesn't) - but that she has that quality of her voice and her personality and her authorial eye being so distinct and singular that it really kinda transcends whatever particular genre it is that she's choosing to work in. I would probably be just as happy to listen to Laura Marling fronting a rock band or a Big Band, I just think that *she* is compelling. And maybe her use of folk idiom isn't going to satisfy someone who is specifically a genre fan. But I'd be perfectly happy to listen to her making music that isn't singer-songwritery folk, so long as she maintains the same intensity.

xp

Whatever, Owen.

I'm just saying that a totally benign conversation about a singer who makes non-contentious music doesn't always need to turn into a "I'm not a misogynist" argument.
I'm interested in why people like/dislike this singer.
I think you don't like her because almost all the s/s's you listed above are American and draw very little influence from blues music

Which of course makes you a racist ;)

Turangalila, curious what you think about contemps like Kathleen Edwards, Beth Orton, Cathy Davey, Clare Burson, Alela Diane...?

I could kiss you for that. x-post

Chimera - UK
Sibylle Baier - German
Veronique Chalot - French
Bridget St. John - English
Suzy Mangion - English
Elżbieta Adamiak - Polish
Buffy Sainte-Marie - Canadian

xp to myself, like when you're comparing an artist to someone from 40 years ago they're always going to suffer in comparison bc nostalgic/passage of time/a strong sense of a specific group of ppl in a specific period are all very strong. but what about ppl who are arguably doing something similar today? are they similarly disliked or are some of them doing stuff you like?

also: y not on IM? :(

Sorry, I said "American" and meant "not British". xp

Mordy, I'm at work and can't log on yet, we'll talk later. :)

And it's entirely possible that Laura Marling, despite the fact she's a young woman who likes folksongs and carries a guitar, might also be, you know, part of another category? That appeals to, f'instance, PJ Harvey fans, (which me and Lex and Matt all are) rather than Margo Guryan fans?

But, you know, it's easier to imply that I'm a shrieky feminist and not have to engage with what I'm saying than to talk about that, I guess.

it's also easier to imply that I'm misconstruing whatever category she *really* belongs in (which just reeks of quibbling essentialism, btw) than to just simply believe I find her musically repulsive for musical reasons I did state: cf. the supermarket music quality to the arrangement of the new song, the trite chord progressions, and the tacked on folky signifiers.

turangalilia -- what do u think about the artists i mentioned?

I've heard them & like some of their songs. Haven't heard full albums - save for Alela. Pretty stuff.

the supermarket music quality to the arrangement of the new song

what does this even mean? i have no idea what's supposed to be so egregious about the arrangement compared to, say, early joni mitchell

It's not so much that Laura Marling "sounds like" PJ Harvey (she doesn't) - but that she has that quality of her voice and her personality and her authorial eye being so distinct and singular that it really kinda transcends whatever particular genre it is that she's choosing to work in.

this does strike me as v true as to why i love laura marling - i have no real folkphobia but there aren't any artists in her immediate milieu that i'm fond of (like...y'know, m*mfords, n**h and the wh*le, ugh). i've compared her to pj harvey in print before but it was definitely more of a momentary recognition, something in the grain of the voice, rather than a direct "x sounds like y" thing.

I would probably be just as happy to listen to Laura Marling fronting a rock band or a Big Band, I just think that *she* is compelling.

yeah at this point i can't say it bothers me what style she chooses to work in.

xp

I'm sure you don't, Lex.

and why would that be?

Joni Mitchell built dynamic & unusual chordal structures / key changes as a basis for her songs, which in themselves 'told a story' (so to speak) independent of lyrics - and built the arrangements around that.

This new Laura Marling song, imo, doesn't have a strong foundation like that - it's starts off with the blandly listenable trite strumming & that droney vocal delivery - framed by a couple of folky signifiers - and when the bouncy drums kick in it just solidifies into vapid floaty feel-good muzak with nothing holding it together. It just seems weirdly tacked on, to me, and makes very little musical sense.

And I know it's unfair to compare her to Joni Mitchell, but you asked. Anyway, it really isn't in my interests to argue anyone out of liking her. That would be stupid. My comments which initially set lex off were in jest and I'm really glad you all enjoy her. I'm still genuinely baffled by the acclaim, and am certain it has more to do with my personal taste rather than some intellectualized misconception of who she ~~~~~REALLY is as an artiste~~~~~.

I dunno, see I'm one of those people who is not ashamed to admit that I actually really truly love "supermarket music." I mean, I probably stayed an extra half hour in a shop on the high street last weekend because hey, they played that Duck Sauce song 3 times while I was in there. I don't find that kind of pop music trite, I find it simple, direct, universal.

And if that's your complaint, it's like... you are a 60s/70s singer-songwritery folk aficionado, looking for a 60s/70s singer-songwritery style folk album. And Laura Marling writes good, solid pop albums with folky textural elements. If you are looking for Joni Mitchell in a Laura Marling record, you are looking in completely the wrong place. You *have* completely misconceptualised who she is and what she does, if you want to compare her to a jazz-influenced classical-guitarist composer notorious for complicated arrangements. That is not what she does. (And thank god, because I cannot stand Joni Mitchell.) This (this being the album in the title of this thread) is a pop record - with everything good that entails, easily accessible, direct tunes, the prioritising of emotion and personality - that happens to have the occasional banjo on it.

(You're almost starting to sound like the kind of dudes who used to crash Busted threads going "how can you listen to this crap? you should listen to *real* punk bands!" when you know what, I hate punk bands, I listened to Busted because they were a fantastic *bubblegum* band.)

You're entitled to be baffled by the acclaim - especially if you're looking for something that really just is not there in her music. If you're gonna be like Owen in the EMA thread going "I don't get this record but I'm interested to know what others hear in it" that's one thing. But walking into a thread and basically telling people that they're stupid for liking what they like, and they should listen to something else, more like what you like - that's just NAGL.

I never said any of you were stupid, now you're just being a bitch. Fuck off.

Um. That was unnecessary. I regret ever trying to engage with you now.

You're constantly putting words in my mouth and basing your "arguments" on them.

woah let's chill for a minute!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPjIC0TRstY

Perhaps if you could provide a list of the top 10 or 12 female folk singer-songwriters of the 70s who are soooo much more "adventurous", that we should be listening to instead of Laura Marling, I might accept this as valid criticism based on an understanding of the dynamics of songwriting, instead of this kind of kneejerk "don't listen to this new thing, listen to these old canonically accepted things instead" reaction.

things that were adventurous during the 70s can sound incredibly tame when people do them now. anyway, I can't say rightfully whether Laura Marling is good or not because the thing she is doing is definitely not my kinda thing.

Are you sure it's not your thing, crüt? Maybe you just ~~~don't get it~~~
She is peerless and in a magically atemporal, ahistorical genre of her own, you see.

This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.

I consider not getting it equivalent to it not being my thing!

and what she's doing is atemporal and ahistorical if you consider that ppl will be making heavily personalized mumbly acoustic guitar(/lute/balalaika/whatever) music until the end of time

This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.
This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.
This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.
This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.
This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.
This is a pop record - with ... the occasional banjo on it.

Like Joni Mitchell records were pop records with the occasional dulcimer on them, right?

I mean, "California" is as pop as it gets.

I'm not disagreeing with you? I'm just basing everything I'm saying on the youtubes posted on this thread so

xpost to KDT

But why bother saying anything at all in a conversation if it will be straw-manned into just you being an unenlightened cunt.

Oooh. Isn't the new Mara Carlyle released today? Looking forward to that female singersongwriter pop record!

Which I expect will be lovely and have the occasional ukulele on it.

turangalila, you may not have outright called people in this thread stupid, but your tone has been objectionably snide from the start.

based on the pitchfork tune i think the music is ok but the voice doesn't work for me, and in that genre - however you want to define it - it kinda needs to.

Crut, I'm just pointing out what my actual words about Marling's record were, rather than Turangalila's increasingly bizarre representations of those words.

Apart from that, this thread is just getting too weird for me and I really don't want to deal with this.

in that genre - however you want to define it - it kinda needs to.

yeah this is otm, with singer-songwriters whether i "get it" or not is almost always about the voice - often i can hear that someone's talented, interesting, but can't think myself into loving them (eg j.newsom). but when i am genuinely taken by one, i don't really need to think.

tbf, turangalila's first post echoes my exact kneejerk sentiments whenever I hear this kinda music:

why is her music so horrible

― We make bouquets that fade immediately. (Turangalila), Saturday, June 25, 2011 12:38 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but I accept that "horrible" is entirely a function of personal tastes & that it just sounds horrible to me because her aesthetic vocabulary clashes with my own

and Laura Marling's voice is way less obnoxious than Joanna Newsom or Kimya Dawson but imo still suffers from a particular vocal affect that turns me off of a song like nobody's business - like the female counterpart to the white dude in the old man hat voice

what female singer-songwriters do you like crut?

or like, female singers i guess.

so many singer-songwriters of both sexes have marmite voices, i've always understood that the voice alone can be enough to turn someone off pj harvey/björk/stina nordenstam/tori amos etc.

that's sorta where i'm at with a lot of contemp folky stuff re: the sort of old-timey voice which comes across as an affectation (guys and gals both)

re: the ordinary quality of laura marling's melodies, i don't think i agree. her tunes almost always take several listens to arrange themselves in my head, and i'd be shocked if i heard this in a supermarket - that description doesn't ring true at all. it seems a bit of a snobbish putdown.

isn't that the opposite criticism to turangalila's? he says her vocal is "droney" (and thinks she's generally ordinary), buzza and crut think she's too affected...?

I dunno, I don't find her voice particularly affected, or even marmitey. I like that she sings in her lower register, because it's such a counterpart to that ethereal-girl wispy voice and also the typical high, vibrato folk girl voice. I completely understand how someone could just, not like a singer's voice, and that's a totally valid complaint - but I almost hear her voice as being the opposite of affected.

xxp Oh, it totally is a snobbish putdown. I'm a *horrible* snob / musical fascist. Now that I heard it again, it's more like Texan douche commercial music when it gets to that bit.

This is the song that really made me come around on her (warning: may contain glockenspiel, which is probably why I think of her as indie-pop with folky affectations, rather than a specifically folk artist of the 60s/70s singer-songwriter stripe)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSGBhjzrBoo

She's singing in a particularly strongly *un*-affected way here, which might in itself be the affectation itself you're talking about Crut?

I don't even understand ... how anyone could try to argue that her melodies require several listens to assimilate/internalize.

and Laura Marling's voice is way less obnoxious than Joanna Newsom or Kimya Dawson but imo still suffers from a particular vocal affect that turns me off of a song like nobody's business - like the female counterpart to the white dude in the old man hat voice

This was my first reaction as well; I even thought of that thread! There's something self-consciously creamy in her delivery that rings false.

I don't even understand ... how anyone could try to argue that her melodies require several listens to assimilate/internalize.

you don't understand very much on this thread, it seems

with singer-songwriters whether i "get it" or not is almost always about the voice - often i can hear that someone's talented, interesting, but can't think myself into loving them (eg j.newsom). but when i am genuinely taken by one, i don't really need to think.

Lex, I totally agree here. I find it fascinating and really difficult to think about why certain voices don't work for me, and there's little consistency, e.g. for every someone whose voice I criticize for having a certain undesirable trait, I probably really like a handful of singers who could be accused of having that trait as well. Very rarely am I just totally taken with someone's voice, however, which is why I think singer/songwriter stuff isn't really my thing.

also, pro-tip, don't call a woman a "bitch" or a "cunt"

i don't really understand how someone can call laura marling's melodies overly cloying and then defend joni mitchell, who i love, but who wrote fucking "big yellow taxi" and "morning morgantown"

I called her a cunt, too? Where?

I don't mind her voice all that much but her accent confuses me a bit.

They aren't even cloying melodies, they're virtually nonexistent speak singing.

I called her a cunt, too? Where?

Laura Marling - I Speak Because I Can

She was STRAW-MANNING *ME* - a man, with a penis - into a cunt.

I was referring to myself, hypergenius.

The you was impersonal. sigh.

The thing is, that track I posted (Ghosts) I initially thought it was really quite simple and very pop - a covers band I was playing with at the time did a version of it, and the musical backing part of it was really simple and easily arranged, it was just two chords, really - until we tried to put the vocals over the top and I was just completely impressed by how she strung the quite complex vocal line around this very simple very pop background. It had this trick of being both very catchy and immediately accessible, yet it did take several attempts to get all of the little quirks of the melody. Just the right amount of utter direct pop simplicity with some quite unexpected turns that took a couple of times to fully work out. I was impressed. Especially considering she was a teenager when she wrote it.

Kat3, I apologize for having called you the b word - there's no excuse for that. Sorry.

what female singer-songwriters do you like crut?

to name a few off the top of my head, early madonna, carole king, janis ian, kate bush, I like tori amos's voice but I haven't listened to enough of her songs to judge... I guess I don't really listen to a lot of "singer-songwriters," male or female, compared to the amount of music I listen to that is by several people collaborating together or performing a song someone else has written or performing a song that they have written/composed but that does not involve any singing

or like, female singers i guess.

a ton!!

oh and of course V1RGO NO1R

From my limited perspective on folkie singer-sonwriters, to me she splits the difference between Norah Jones and Ani DiFranco.

LOL my idea of hell

I can't believe there are 100+ comments worth of argument to be had about Laura Marling.

I bought the titular album of this thread IN A SUPERMARKET and I love it. So does my wife.

The problem in the discourse of the last 24 hours on this thread as I see it is that Turangalila is persistently using very emotive and subjective terms ("horrible") in pseudo-objective sentences ("this music is horrible" not "I find this music horrible"), the impact of which is made to feel snide and dismissive towards people who do like this music by the brevity and offhandedness of the delivery. So, people are happily discussing the artist, and apropos nothing, "this is horrible", which then feels like "and you are stupid for being duped by the horribleness" when dismissive talk of marketing comes in, too. It's very difficult to react to that with anything beyond aggression, because it's basically old fashioned trolling, and the fact that Kate, Matt, lex, and Owen didn't just collectively yell "fuck off" is pretty commendable. Anyway, I love her last record, her voice, her melodies, her dramatic, powerful climaxes which feel very strong and unexpected to me, and I also love the non-traditional, non-folk touches to the production, which bring something new to the table for me. I have little interest in authentic, old folk. It sounds stuffy and old and alien to me. Laura M feels passionate and alive and modern, and speaks to me.

"This music is horrible" and "I find this music horrible" are synonymous in meaning and I'm surprised anyone would stick up for the idea of covering all opinions on a board basically about musical opinions in IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO. I'm pretty certain that the fact that the opinion is coming from someone who is not you covers "in my opinion" or "I find this to be ___" adequately and has done so pretty well for the past ten years on ILM. To be honest, I don't even understand what happened on this thread or how it turned into an argument when such flip or joking dismissals are pretty par for the course elsewhere on ILM.

Laura Marling's music is horrible, by the by.*

I find it to be so.

i don't think the detractors itt are down on her because they perceive her to be not "authentic"

Like my immediate reaction to something I dislike is always going to be "this is horrible" in a way that is not meant to be dismissive of other opinions. It's just my reaction. I don't think you need me to say that it's my opinion or my reaction to know that it is mine and mine alone. x-post

I totally agree, Melissa, that in theory we all "know" that posts by other people are, by the very fact that they come from other people, always subjective opinion, but it's disingenuous to dismiss the emotive impact a specific phrase like "why is her music so horrible" or "this music is horrible" dropped into a specific kind of discussion can have. We know it's only opinion at a high level of cognition but at an emotional level it pisses you off, and to ignore that pissing off is to ignore the subtleties of language and how people respond emotionally to discourse.

On an emotional gut level, it pisses me off in general when people don't like what I like, "IMO" or not, and I think even an opinion that is actually phrased as one can still read as dismissive either because of its context or my frame of mind when reading it. And ILM is rife with opinions phrased as fact, not sure what it is about this thread in particular that has suddenly made people want to call it out.

Who knows? The whole damn Internet is rife wit opinion-as-fact, I guess.

Laura Marling songs sound like they should be in the penultimate scene of a Grey's Anatomy episode. That doesn't mean they're not good, mind.

Also, do positive opinions have to be tempered with an "I find this to be amazing"? Or is it just negative opinions that have to be phrased thusly? x-post

Positive opinions are much less likely to be perceived as dismissive of others, I'd have thought. I'm sure someone will find an example suggesting otherwise, of course.

Best Album Rated 10.0 by Pitchfork Media Upon Its Initial Release

So is it commendable that I didn't yell "fuck off" here or the million other times this opinion has been phrased like this on ILM?

Ha, yeah, I think so.

The thing is, Melissa, there are probably at least 10 artists a day discussed on ILX, whose music I find to be "horrible" yet somehow I manage not to go in those threads and tell their listeners that I'm disappointed in them for liking them.

In fact, the only time I really do go in the thread of an artist I don't get, is when I see a whole bunch of people whose tastes I usually respect, in a thread, talking about how much they love them - and in those cases, I will sometimes go in the thread and read and maybe even comment, to try and work out if *I* have missed something. (I think the last couple of times this happened was with Tuneyards and Taylor Swift?) I didn't leave either of those threads *liking* the artist, but I certainly did get a better understanding of why other people did, and if I thought I was becoming too trolly, I left, because hey, diff'rent strokes.

I was under the mistaken impression that certain people were doing something like that: "Hey, IDGI, explain to me what I'm missing here" rather than outright snob trolling. And I actually found it useful to myself to explore what I did like about that artist, even if I was perplexed and hurt by the completely out of proportion personal hostility I received in reply.

lol this thread

This (this being the album in the title of this thread) is a pop record - with everything good that entails, easily accessible, direct tunes, the prioritising of emotion and personality - that happens to have the occasional banjo on it.

Karen, I understand the tendency to conceptualize something we like and gravitate to as being somehow different from things to which it's typically compared, but this kind of inversion (i.e. the banjos are secondary) feels like a real stretch. Also, your praise of this for being pop (because it meets certain nebulous and highly subjective criteria (how can you hear the emotion and personality being prioritized here as opposed to in other similar records?)) gets at something I remember discussing on a thread earlier this year: I get disheartened when I see an embrace of pop being wielded with the same bluntness as rockism tends to be. The embrace of pop on this board felt to me (ten years ago) to be a refreshing and totally freeing escape from the confines of the usual rockist discourse, whereas statements such as yours strike me as simply another codified stance that operates the exact same within the discourse as rockism--i.e., this is good because it meets these criteria, and other things by implication are not as good for not meeting them. It's hard to continue a conversation once that gauntlet is thrown.

The problem in the discourse of the last 24 hours on this thread as I see it is that Turangalila is persistently using very emotive and subjective terms ("horrible") in pseudo-objective sentences ("this music is horrible" not "I find this music horrible"), the impact of which is made to feel snide and dismissive towards people who do like this music by the brevity and offhandedness of the delivery. So, people are happily discussing the artist, and apropos nothing, "this is horrible", which then feels like "and you are stupid for being duped by the horribleness" when dismissive talk of marketing comes in, too. It's very difficult to react to that with anything beyond aggression, because it's basically old fashioned trolling

And is this atypical of ILM, really? I also think you've got too broad a definition of trolling there.

Melissa has already said it better. And I have just been an observer here. (I think Laura Marling is pretty good and I'm curious about what she will do next, but so far it's not really my thing.)

sounds stuffy and old and alien to me. Laura M feels passionate and alive and modern, and speaks to me. ―lol sickmouthy (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:03 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

Just to clarify, the argument wasn't that laura marling should be pure like carter family or shit like that....its that she sounds exactly like lots of early 70s pop/folk-rock female singer songwriters.....who were hardly "pure" folk themselves

That being said she seems fine if unremarkable and yeah I think the time in this thread got way too nasty

https://soundcloud.com/lauramarlingofficial/laura-marling-where-can-i-go

she's the best and i can't wait for this

is that line really "if i feel like i'm better fucked than won"????

(i hope so!) (this is vg, i am hyped)

reminds me a lot of the 'i speak because i can' material which imho >>> a creature i don't know which i found mostly forgettable

obv it is a jam

is she referencing bill callahan in the album title?

kinda love how all her records have titles six syllables long

16 songs seem to be a bit much, but if they are all good as this i'll be very happy. The 2 new tracks I heard at the concert were even better iirc.

Not really feeling the new track as yet. I like how it sounds a little like "Afternoon Delight" at the very start, but it didn't grab me otherwise. I've only given it a couple of listens, and it's not terrible, so it's not putting me off anticipating the album or anything.

A 16 track Laura Marling worries me too, but new track is very good.

*album

Not too fazed by the 16 track thing as she's said in a few interviews that the album begins with a medley, so I presume she runs through the first few songs quickly in B-side-of-abbey-rd style.

Or I guess it could just as easily all be "Don't Ask Me Why"-"Salinas"-esque stuff, when you think about it. Anyway. I'm sure this'll be good.

i am a master hunter

http://www.twentyfourbit.com/2013/04/laura-marling-master-hunter/

i love it

"master hunter" is really fantastic, but tbh the album's just a bit of a snooze :(

Sounds great, really excited.

I was hoping for a "Devil's Spoke" on the new LP, and here it is.

Once I Was An Eagle Tracklist

01. “Take The Night Of”
02. “I Was An Eagle”
03. “You Know”
04. “Breathe”
05. “Master Hunter”
06. “Little Love Caster”
07. “Devil’s Resting Place”
08. “Interlude”
09. “Undine”
10. “Where Can I Go?”
11. “Once”
12. “Pray For Me”
13. “When Were You Happy? (And How Long Has That Been)”
14. “Love Be Brave”
15. “Little Bird”
16. “Saved These Words”

I don't know if all of these songs are full length or if some are just titled interludes, but 16 songs is too many Laura Marling songs in one place.

oh nm, I see this has been covered.

"devil's spoke" is one of my least favourite marling songs

too mumfordy for me

http://www.nme.com/news/laura-marling/70346

leaked

i made a new thread laura marling - once i was an eagle