Why does black people never want to rock?

indie= not rock.

Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains!

http://www.ticketweb.com/user/? region=nyc&query=schedule&venue=bowery&next=351827

Aug. 11

also, Onyx + Anthrax = Onthryx

Doug Pinnick from King's X is black. Kind of. He's also gay, believe it or not. That's sorta why they stopped being a "christian" band. Ok, I'll stop talking about King's X now.

Jason Clark of Pretty Girls Make Graves is black. He rocks.

also: how can the bad brains, or soul brains as they call themselves now, rock when that cant even show up to play?

black people invented rock music along with everyone else good dontcha know (african song and tribal rhythms were carried by imported slaves, developed over time from chain gangs and ghettos to create delta blues and jazz, reggae, soul etc. - giving us Berry, Lee Hooker, Waters, Gaye, Hendrix, Perry yadda yadda yadda - and inspiring every single white rock band ever esp. the ones that influence today's white rock acts (Stones, Velvets, Zep etc.)

i'm sure you all know this - but it is interesting to see why rock n' roll music is so devoid of successful black artists. perhaps racism in the music industry and the resulting dominance of white male bands alienated black peoples from this form of music back in the 60s. 'they stole the soul' perhaps, but there are still pioneers like reggae/punk dj Don Letts who constantly big up the White Stripes and the Sex Pistols.

for what its worth (fuck all) i notice a host of rock bands over the years with black drummers (ocean colour scene, campag velocet, papa roach, p.o.d...but does anyone remember Living Colour?)

I remember Living Colour. Real good band, as far as I'm concerned. All of their albums, to be honest. But naw, no one remembers them. They even tried a comeback tour this year (or late last year). Miserable failure. I don't think they were wearing spandex or wetsuits, though, which may have been the problem.

Said, Kenny G ain't got no SOULLLL John Coltrane is rock and roll You may dig on the Rolling Stones but they could never ever rock like Nina Simone

What about West Asians in indiepop/rock? Cornershop and Papas Fritas?

I notice nobody's mentioned Rage Against the Machine - love em or loathe em, pretty important. Skunk Anansie, Audioweb - the dubby end of indie. Or Luke Sutherland, king of tortured Scots masculinity. Or Debbie Smith of Echobelly, proving the point that BritPop wasn't all mockernee geezers and lisping girlfriends of the above.

No, it sounds like you're just mystified as to why black people by and large aren't big on indie. I don't think this is a hugely pressing question, or any more pressing than why Puerto Ricans aren't huge on country or Pakistanis aren't necessarily big on Italian opera. It only becomes problematic if you (a) for some reason think of punk-lineage indie rock as "better" or "smarter" than everything else, then (b) suspect that everyone else in the world and non-white races in particular are "lesser" or "dumber" for not liking it, then (c) get all fretty and anxious about this conclusion. Just wipe the (a) part from your thinking, and everything's fine, see?

I'm just going to stare at this phrase for a nice long time, in the hopes that it will somehow disappear with my withering glance.

Jesus, what a question! Christ, what a fuckwit!

Surely no-one has said anything like this? It sounds rather like an inflammatory position you've set up to attack. (Hey, an inflammatory straw man: that's apt.) I suppose it could be, though, that I've not read the thread carefully enough and have missed the bit where someone did say it.

..oh, yeah. Mos Def. He doesn't really understand rock, does he? That song never fails to amuse and irritate me, especially since in the course of his telling us that what we like is no good he fails, himself, to rock at all. The thought of the Rolling Stones attempting to rock like...Nina Simone (give me a break, even I could find a more sensible name that rhymed) is repugnant to me. That's what he'd LIKE? Same goes for his lame arena-rock band (saw 'em, hated 'em). And Living Colour, undermixed guitar, bass and drums, overmixed Pompous Ass vocalist. Saw em THREE times, never liked 'em once (they were always openers, and deservedly so). Had a few good studio tracks. Body Count? Got better during their stay on earth, nearly approached Biohazardish-bare-competence. Funkadelic? Yup, rocked. Didn't get all uppity about it, either (none of that "look, we can rock too! In fact, we're better than you! Nyah, nyah!")Bad Brains? ROCKED effortlessly and proudlike. Does anyone here remember a Philadelphia band called Pure Hell? Had kind of a Bad Brains hype going on but I never did hear them. I think the original post here wasn't THAT bad - the question is, to me, why are so few ALL-black rock bands? Sure, there are great African-American rock artists scattered hither & yon, but overall, they seem not to embrace the rock-BAND format. Is it suspicion of a white format? Starmaking machinery that tells them only one member must be the star? I know plenty of musically openminded black folks, but they don't listen to rock. Everything else is fair game, it seems.

and back to the original point of blacks that rock, there's also danko jones.

http://www.fallofrome.com/malted.jpg

Ethnic minority Pavement fan contest - who can beat Mauritius?

No, no, Pinefox, all I meant was something like ... various groups of people and "communities" have various musical lineages, sometimes with some overlap, sometimes not. We're typically unsurprised by this; it's perfectly natural to us that a 60-year-old Alabama black woman might listen to gospel, or that a 50-year-old stockbroker in New York might like the Rolling Stones. But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country? And I know that when I fretted about not seeing a lot of other black indie fans, it was because I still thought of indie as somehow better than and smarter than and "above" other musics -- which results in this sense of "disappointment" in everyone else for not getting that. As soon as I was old enough to realize that that "better" was not only subjective but culturally conditioned, this ceased to be an issue.

Isn't it natural to concern yourself with your own scene rather than one you have no interest in or knowledge of? Maybe Christian country fans do worry about the lack of blacks in their scene? (Assuming even that there is such a lack; I wouldn't know.)

(Another way of putting that last bit is something like this: when you were 13 and you and your friends were discovering and "turning one another onto" the Pixies or whomever, how many black friends were you swapping those tapes with?)

Which, incidentally, describes the other source of fretting over the racial crossover of hip-hop, apart from the top-level issue of mainstream America having to sort out its images of and relationships with black people: note that hip-hop was, up until its big pop crossover, equally horizontal, equally reliant upon a peer to "introduce" you to it. Hip-hop has gradually conquered that and made itself pop, in this reciprocal circle of white kids buying more and more of it. Indie rejects conquering it, and thus can't really make inroads beyond the "peers" of current indie listeners. The only way it will pick up bigger black listenership in the US is as white kids start hanging out more with black kids -- and not just the white kids who are already disposed to pick up on the black musical samizdat, as opposed to the other way around.

I haven't made a post in five days, and that's the best I could come up with for my comeback. Lame....

but I guess I could still be called a Paki, and um:

"whoa whoa whoa there! generalization city!" - agreed. a rather gargantuan generalization, right?

Unless you meant I was generalizing about the ethnic difference part, in which case I'm not so much asserting that as suggesting it. I know it's partly true for me: growing up with this sense of "difference" being hung around you can surely give you a little nudge toward a musical genre that bills itself as the "different" one.

all this begs me to ask, nabisco: what ethnicity are you? not that it's important

I hear Pervez Musharraf's a big fan. He hated "Terror Twilight", but then, didn't everyone?

Ha! I was on the N. Side and heard Straight Outta Compton long before the Pixies or Pavement etc. But somehow I ended, lo these many years down the road, posting about Maurice Chevalier on ILX.

This post is not intended to reinforce anyone's determinism, racial or otherwise.

Why isn't it reciprocal? Why don't black fans pack
Creed shows, for example? Actually, I've never seen a
Creed crowd, but I'm pretty sure that while white
audiences like black music (hip-hop) it's not really
reciprocal. Perhaps I'm wrong tho.

During highschool and Uni my walls were (and still are) plastered with pictures of The Pixies, Jane's Addiction, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Bad Brains, Pavement, GBV, NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Public Enemy. It's just music!! Enough with the categories! I have friends from all different backgrounds who get down to all different kinds of tunes. What does hearing indie-rock first have to do with being able to appreciate hip-hop later, or vice-versa?

I've been to rock shows where none of the friends I was with were white and I've been to hip-hop shows where they all were. I thought that I'd heard the last of this crap in high school.

If "Indieholic Anonymous" doubts that black people can rock then I should probably invite him to come to the studio sometime when I'm jamming with some friends. We'll blow his stupid ass through the back wall.

A thread with "black people" and "rock" in the title, and absolutely no mention whatsoevah of THE 'BONE!?! Wow.

You do realize that there are not equal numbers of black and non-black people in the U.S., don't you?

Is there some sort of impossible-to-avoid-insult-factor for black-people-what-rock similar to the one for white-people-what-rap?

I don't see how "blowing his stupid ass through the back wall" would convince him of anything. Why don't you just impress him by rocking? Oh, I get it, you're "throwing down"!

Me neither. I guess that is how they solve their problems in the ghetto.

WAIT A MINUTE!...I should have kept reading:

------------------------------------------------------------

During highschool and Uni my walls were (and still are) plastered with pictures of The Pixies, Jane's Addiction, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Bad Brains,
Pavement, GBV, NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Public Enemy. It's just music!! Enough with the categories! I have friends from all different
backgrounds who get down to all different kinds of tunes. What does hearing indie-rock first have to do with being able to appreciate hip-hop later, or
vice-versa?

I've been to rock shows where none of the friends I was with were white and I've been to hip-hop shows where they all were. I thought that I'd heard
the last of this crap in high school.

J-Rock
------------------------------------------------------

So what are you saying? Music genres don't necessarily have racial boundaries? Could this also go for some other issues in life? Oh, no, I have to change the filing system...excuse me...

Its like watching a car wreck. first off you have the moron who started it digging his hole deeper with every word out of his mouth, and then everyone else scrambling to jump in the hole too.

"black people" is not a unit. yet everyone here is talking like you can just say "black people ____________" and not come across as a completely ignorant and uninformed. Do any of you really know anything about the listening patterns and demographics that follow of people outside your immediate area? I really doubt it. I sure don't, so I don't pretend I do.

and matt riedl: I think by "blowing them through the back wall" he meant "rocking."

whatever, I don't even know who here is joking and who here is really just dumb...

http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0109/1181589.jpg

despite that, the topic does merit some serious discussion - because even know we all know that in reality of course rock n' roll is not something that only appeals to people who happen to be caucasian or whatever...but the stereotypes are real too, and perpetuated by a wide range of elements, from MTV to record stores to the consumers themselves

If the opening question was at all valid, the answer I'd have gained from mainstream American comedies is that black would-be rock fans wouldn't want to be surrounded by "a bunch of crazy white people." And white guys would respond "It's true! It's all true! We're sooo lame." And then we'd all dive into Fred Durst's chocolate starfish.

But again, I'm surprised you all, like, acknowledged this dillpickle.

FIEND.

Chuck Berry and Little Richard. Can't get more rock'n'roll than them.

Jimi Hendrix, ultimate rock guitarist. Though he expressed concern about how brothers saw him.

Arthur Lee. What Jim Morrison wished he could be.

Funkadelic/Eddie Hazel rocked as much as Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin in the day. A real "pysche" band.

Bob Marley listened to Hank Williams Sr. Toots and the Maytals did the definitive version of "Country Road." Don't forget Cymande.

Grandmaster Flash/Kool Herc/Bambaata spun Kraftwerk along with JB.
Don't forget about the Puerto Rican b-boys back in the day. They contributed too.

Prince is from Minnesota.

Pharrel of the N*E*R*D*/Neptunes, arguably the most influential producer in pop music today, has a skater/BMX/punk side and he has a bling side.

FUCK YES.

http://www.jahsonic.com/BlackRock.html

hmm....

"That's nice, dear. Take out the trash."

"That's nice, dear. Take out the trash."

20 years? My wife has that attitude now! (she's the sensible one in the family)

It's not exactly right to say that blacks invented rock. Rock grew out of the meeting between black and white rural styles. Listen to Chuck Berry: it's the blues meets country, black meets white. The notion that whites 'took' rock from blacks is just p.c. revisionist blather.

Thats arguable.

According to 'Dance Of Days' at least, when HR was on a particular 'is babylon/is not babylon' trip he was prone to homophobic tirades. The guys not stable and Bad Brains haven't really rocked since I Against I anyways..

Those who consider themselves music fans listen to multiple styles of music all the time. Those who don't, usually don't listen to music, or they limit themselves to listening to only a few styles. People of all races fall into both of these categories. Whoever asked this question, for some reason, has decided to place all black people into the latter category.

Yeah, this thread is horrible.

You know it's true.

Milli Vanilli also rocked, but not as much as THE REAL MILLI VANILLI.

-P.O.D
-SEVENDUST
-Incubus
-GodForbid
-Yellowcard
-Bad Brains

And I know there are A HELL OF A LOT more.

Oh yeah, and I'm a black............who ROCKS.

.(....\............../....)
..\....\..Rock.. /..../
...\....\........../..../
....\..../´¯.l.¯`\../
..../... l....l....(¯`\
...l......l....l.....\....\
...l......l´¯.l´¯.l \....\
...\......` ¯..¯ ´....../rock n' roll!

Music is not "white", music is not fucking "black"(though some would like to beleive so)........music is FUCKING music.

Music belongs to no one(accept for everyone, if you know what I mean)

Oh yeah, and a couple more of my favorite bands that happen to have blacks in them:

-Hootie and the Blowfish
-Dakota Moon

ROCK ON!

http://www.cspaniels.com/wtwpreorder.html

I would recommend DLing "The Only Black Guy at the Indie Rock Show"

Over a hundred years of Spanish and Portuguese colonial history before Jamestown to thread.

secondly, there are lots of black rockers making music today and there have been throughout the decades.

thirdly, because black people invented rock. do your history.

"Unfair" works as both an answer and as an example.

http://www.kissalive.com/kiss/photos/76/76k13.jpg

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0111/sheffield.php

You don't have to get them. You must only admit that they -- like'me or hate'em -- do indeed rock.

That should've been like'EM, not like'me, but ya don't have to do that either.

I don't think less of them for not liking it, I'm just curious as to why I never see any black people at concerts or hear of any black indie fans. True, I don't see many Pakistan inides either. It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though! And most genres have crossovers of their fan base demographic. Many white people listen to rap etc.
-- Indieholic Anonymous (@ .co...), July 25th, 2002.

1. D.H. Peligro (Dead Kennedys drummer)
2. Skeeter Thompson (Scream bassist)
3. Sly Stone
4. Gary Powell (the Libertines drummer)
5. Bad Brains
6. Poly Styrene* (X-Ray Spex)
7. Chuck Berry
8. Little Richard
9. Mick Collins
10. Jimi Hendrix
11. Pat Smear** (the Germs, Nirvana, Foo Fighters)
12. Vaginal Creme Davis
13. Carl Crack (Atari Teenage Riot)
14. Ivan Julian (guitarist for Richard Hell & the Voidoids)
15. Jean Beauvoir (Plasmatics bassist; Ramones songwriter)
16. Slash*** (Guns 'n Roses)
17. Tom Morello**** (Rage Against the Machine, and, uh, Audioslave)
18. Santi White (Stiffed)
19. Phil Lynott***** (Thin Lizzy)
20. Michael Cornelius (JFA bassist)
21. Bubba Dupree (Void guitarist)
22. Ike Turner
23. Robert Johnson

* = English/Somalian
** = White, black and Cherokee
*** = mulatto
**** = mulatto
***** = black/irish

When it came time for us to discuss Hip Hop in class, the prof brought in some producer from the detroit rap scene called MC Surreal. She was the only one in the class who didn't like rap, with the except of MC Paul Barman who she enjoyed.

A Thousand Miles - Vanessa Carlton
12:51 - The Strokes
Seven Nation Army - The White Stripes
The Scientist - Coldplay
Torn - Natalie Imbruglia
Spaceship - Kanye West, GLC & Consequence
Lucifer - Jay-Z
Sleep to Dream - Fiona Apple
Cause I Love You - Lenny Williams
Mystery of Iniquity - Lauryn Hill
Distant Lover - Marvin Gaye
Am I High - N.E.R.D.
Used to Love U - John Legend
This Love - Maroon 5
Take Me Out - Franz Ferdinand
No Such Thing - John Mayer
Scar Tissue - Red Hot Chili Peppers
The Reason - Hoobastank
Selfish - Slum Village, Kanye West & John Legend
99 Problems - Jay-Z
Electric Relaxation - A Tribe Called Quest
How Many MC's... - Black Moon
The Rain - Missy Elliott

"12:51" (Track 2): "Ah man, I love this song so much that I almost f**ked up the mix down on my album because you can barely hear their lyrics. I went in the mix on my album trying to make the guitar louder, trying to make it sound like The Strokes, and Common was like, 'Come on, man, that don't sound like hip-hop. Come on, man, turn them drums up.'"

"The Reason" (Track 18): "Them my homeboys, I always see them we go to places like England and Canada. We always kicking it backstage you know just having a good time."

"Seven Nation Army" (Track 3): "OK this is another song that is all black people's favorite white song. Everybody loves The White Stripes so it's kind of cliche, but it's really dope and I love the singer/songwriter/producer thing going on, so..."

christ.

I had no idea that Hoobastank kicks it backstage.

But there is still a tendency, that while there have always (well, after 1955 anyway) been a lot of white people getting into musical genres that are normally stereotyped as "black", the percentage of black people getting into musical genres that are normally stereotyped as "white" is considerably smaller.

And I don't really buy the comparision between indie and Christian country here. Country music, not at least the Christian kind, is usually connected with a culture that black people have a good reason to distance themselves from. I mean, you've got the rednecks, the Christian right, the Ku Klux Klan etc. All of them part of a culture that is deeply rooted in the American South. Yes, I am aware that most African American music was pioneered in the same geographic areas, but country music is still very much linked with white people down there, and particularly with rascist and very much right wing ones.

As for indie, particularly in the US, indie started out in the college rock circuit, that is, among kids that were usually liberal, educated, and considerably less likely to be rascist than the Rednecks. Sure, they may be considerably more Middle class than the rednecks, so from a marxist point of view, they may be part of the oppressors while the rednecks are among the oppressed ones. But still, that kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does. And before post-50s r&r, pre-disco, these people were a lot more likely to be into R&B or early funk than the rednecks were too.

So I don't see why black Americans (as a general stereotype here, as I stated in the first paragraph, there are of course lots of exceptions to this stereotype) should see the need to distance themselves from indie (or the rock "canon", which is usually created by rather educated and tolerant people as well).

Indie is of course just an example, and it is correct that, for instance, Coldplay (a band that is loved by Timbaland btw) don't really "rock". So maybe a more natural question would be, why is is so hard for the vast majority black audiences to get into melody/song oriented "white" pop?

Oh, Anthony is so funny! How To Rock Like A Black Feminist Critic to thread. (And I actually think the jump to country is a lot less hard than the jump to indie.) Even if every black fan of let's say Arcade Fire went to a show at one time, there's still way less of them than the white fans due to sheer numbers. What are there like 10 million black people compared to 100 million (okay, exaggerating) white people?

xpost I think part of that, Geir, is social indoctrination. There's socially coded "black things" and "white things." "Black things" when I was growing up in NYC: Hot 97/Kiss FM/WBLS, Video Music Box/Yo MTV Raps/BET, Right On/Honey/Vibe magazines, Martin/Def Comedy Jam/Jamie Foxx Show. "White things": Z-100/K-Rock/WPLJ, 120 Minutes, Rolling Stone/Seventeen/People, Friends/SNL/Home Improvement. Of course because those are mass media things, people are crossing all the time. In the "black community," the general reaction to black people liking "white shit" is "you're weird" so it inhibits people that compared to white people liking black stuff where it's like "whoa, you're so cool and forward-thinking!"

Sure. I mean, I count understand that they prefer listening to Banghra or Bollywood. But why hip-hop? What is it in their cultural background that would make the particularly likely to enjoy American hip-hop? The fact that some American rappers are Muslims?

Geir, people of all colors and religions all over the world are fascinated with and enjoy hip-hop. You can hear rapping in countless different languages.

But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country?

Dances around the dynamic that I think is at work.

Indie fans look around at an indie show and see only white faces and they do fret, yes. But I will submit that their fretting is exactly NOT because of nabisco's conjectures (that the indie fretter "thinks of punk-lineage indie rock as 'better' or 'smarter' than everything else" or that "non-white races in particular are 'lesser' or 'dumber'").

I think the problem is precisely the opposite: white indie fans view the monochrome audiences at their favorite band's show as an indictment of their taste. Conversely, a mixed audience would be an endorsement of their taste. Partly because everyone secretly believes that if black people like it, then it must be funky, and funky is good.

The issue is twofold: on the one hand, these corny indie fuxorz have a nagging insecurity and a sense of inferiority in this one narrow area: the authenticity of how they experience musical enjoyment. Cf. the widespread generalization that the white folks have no soul, no rhythm, cannot dance, etc. Soul, rhythm, and dancing (associated with black musical enjoyment) are signs that you are enjoying the music on a more visceral and possibly more "real" level, vs. a more cerebral form of enjoyment that is associated with whiteness and lameness and general lack of "rock" virtues, which are supposed to center on the hips more than the head.

The second part of the equation has to do with indie fans being of an age and class and temperament where diversity is presented as an undisputed value. Geir just recently mentioned the

kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does

...translation: indie fans like to think of themselves as multiculturally inclined antiracists. Progressive values, socially liberal politics, a bohemian embrace of "alternative" culture. Let us leave aside for the moment whether they're right about themselves or not; what we're talking about is self-image. If an experience is as lily-white as your average Bright Eyes concert (say) then they worry that they're implicated in the segregation somehow, which runs counter to their self-image.

Hence the anxiety: it is driven more by insecurity than by arrogance.

How if there is no segregation other than the one chosen by the opressed ones themselves?

Sure, but why doesn't the same apply to indie, powerpop or prog?

The flaw here is, indie fans tend not to like disco or mainstream R&B, not because it is "black", but because it is "corporate" and "manufactured", that is, it is a production of capitalism rather than the real thing.

When he or she looks around him or herself at a Decemberists / Long Winters / Death Cab for Cutie concert and sees a lily-white audience, the suspicion is that they've attached themselves to an unfunky and un"real" phenomenon.

The feeling doesn't necessarily extend to the liking of all music that black folks are said to like. Black folks liking indie music would reflect well on indie music--but it isn't a sufficient condition for coolness.

OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next up: Why is ILM predominantly right-handed?

It is a straight up Ali G send-up, or no?

I blame it on their repressive Catholic upbringing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1695373,00.html

the UK's black music is back with a vengeance - does this mean the death of Indie boys and their guitars scene?

Man those indie boys and guitars are becoming a rare breed eh? Where did they all go? Talk about oppression!!

/heavy sarcasm

lol UrbanDictionary

The best music on earth.

Pinkerton rocks!
by phrubee Nov 20, 2003 email it

Black Punk Time: Blacks in Punk, New Wave and Hardcore 1976-1983 (Part 4)
By James Porter and Jake Austen
(From Roctober #32, 2002)

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/post-no-bills/2007/01/29/move-over-buppies-blipsters-are-coming/

Pinkerton:

The best music on earth.

Pinkerton rocks!

http://pinkerton.urbanup.com/360224

--
http://www.urbandictionary.com/

We have to take our clothes off
We have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Excuse me miss
I couldn't help but to notice how alone you are
I dig the attitude and how you're acting like you own the bar
Got me flashing keys and I don't even own a car
Like you ain't feeling my charm, because I know you are
I'm trying to see how your lips feel
Oh I'm sorry, my name is Travie and I'm pretty much a big deal
Oh, you've never heard of me
That sounds absurd to me
The way you stole my attention was flat out burglary
What do you say let's exit stage left so me and you can
Possibly reconvene and play some naked peekaboo
Cause after all the blouse you're wearing is kinda see through
And it's obvious I'm heading wherever you're leading me too
Such an angel with a devilish angle
And quite the certified sweet talker
And you're buying every line of it girl
And I don't really blame you
If I was in your shoes I'd probably do the same too

We have to take our clothes off
We have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Now here's another barn burner for the slow learners
Put your helmets on and take a seat on the short bus
Next stop, right around the corner from your momma live
No turning back so you better buckle up
Shit, don't be concerned with mine
I feel like a Speak and Spell way I got you learning my lines
Fine, pull the string, replay that shit
I change my name to "did he really just say that shit?"
Yep
I'll take a mile if you let me
Six-five, two hundred plus and so sexy
My legs going numb for keeping my phone on vibrate
To hide the fact your girlfriend keeps textin' me
And I've been trying to never mind it man
But every time I get a new number, she finds it damn
And you thought you had it sewn up
Until right around amazing o'clock when I showed up

We have to take our clothes off
We have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks
Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks

Good grief girl, you're giving me goosebumps
Standing there in your underwear and new pumps
It's like the more time we waste and less time I get to taste you
Honestly I could easily replace you
It's not a scam girl
That's how I am girl
Peter Pan, I'm a sucker for smacker's jam girl
It's clear I'm only here for good clean fun
Shut up and kiss me like the antidotes under my tongue
Whoa

We have to take our clothes off
And we have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no
We have to take our clothes off
And we have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks
Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks

Oh my god, why do you exist.

Their guitarist is black!

I can never tell how many layers of irony Dom is operating on when he posts about Decaydance bands.

I _think_ three

your cut & paste skills are next level

Gosh, Ned!!

Mick Collins has never, in my knowledge ‘rocked’.

Yes he has

Gosh, Ned!!

No, not gosh ned.

No, I was just surprised!

Even I have my limits.

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?what=R&obid=509432

Mick Collins has never, in my knowledge ‘rocked’.

Why do YOU exist

I can never tell how many layers of irony Dom is operating on when he posts about Decaydance bands.

I do like that track, and considering the amount of dumb bullshit novelty rap ILX has gone to bat for over the years (Len, Fannypack, MIA), I dunno why they don't cut this tune some slack. Oh, yeah, right, old people be shook.

you won't be so young and pretty forever dom

<i>Mick Collins has never, in my knowledge ‘rocked’.

-- Mr. Goodman, Wednesday, September 19, 2007 12:12 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Link</i>

^wack

lol mr. wrongman is more like it

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/398587904_aac3e86bd4.jpg

waht

Why does Greek people never want to make sense.

lookin good, Hitler

is that an ad for the new will ferrell movie

It's the ad for the lost Chaplin classic, POOTIE TRAMP.

You need to find out who MICK COLLINS is.

-- http://gygax.pitas.com, Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:00 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.frontline.org.za/images/zz010.jpg

http://www.killedthat.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/crunkrock.jpg

http://a732.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/1/l_6ef9732d21408e72cec497a4c51df29b.jpg

My wife initially thought "Black Country Rock" was about black country-rock.

OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoa, this thread. o_O I didn't read much, but wtf. Just some trolling?

A lot of bullshit here, but this post actually makes a lot of sense.

no one's mentioned PHIL FUCKING LINNOT of Thin Lizzy. But the list of black rock musicians would be near endless... the real question is why isn't "rock" marketed to black people, and why the continual ghetto-ization of genres into "this music is for black people" and "this music is for white people" still exists. It's very blatant. Go to any record store - 99% of the black artists are in "r&b/hip hop" and 99% of the white artists are in "rock". Total bullshit - the division is an artificial one perpetuated by racist marketing.

Surely there's an element of racism in the marketing. I mean, why are Lionel Richie and Seal R&B/soul while George Michael and Hall & Oates are not?

Blue eyed SOUL. There's a clue in the name.

Imagine if Mark Hammill had a intense thang for soul music.
"Use the Funk, Luke! Feel the Funk Flowing Through You!"

-- Lord Custos III, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

Blue eyed SOUL. There's a clue in the name.

It seems "blue eyed" is the clue that causes the shops to classify them as "rock & pop" rather than "soul/R&B"

Of course the lack of logic here is not race-related only. What is it that makes most record stores categorize the entire Jackson family as pop/rock, but hardly any other black acts other than Hendrix/Kravitz etc, for instance?

And the lack of logic when it comes to what is hard rock and what is not is even more laughable. One record store chain here classifies Flower Kings and Spock's Beard as hard rock/metal while Led Zeppelin are not.

Together we made it (you see we did it niggaz!)
We made it even though we had our backs up against the wall (c'mon)
Forever we waited {ha ha!}
And they told us we were never gonna get it
But we took it on the road (to the riches) on the road (to the ghetto)
On the rooooad (and the projects to this bangin instrumental)
On the road (ride with me) on the road (we come and get it)
On the rooooad (yeah, yeah, yeah!)

OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

??? Ofra Haza is neither black nor rock.

i like that so many posters immediate reaction to the first post was "indies not rock"

no wait i dont like that at all

Yeah the embarrassment here wasn't only on the thread poster's hands. Between that and like, "wtf dude, Chuck Berry!" or whatever (when the question was directly regarding hiphop / indie rock) ILM's got a little slack to tend to. Only skimmed it, maybe there was more.

cue copy/paste of me being an idiot/loon someplace, I know it's happened.

black people never want to cause rock interferes with bluetooth http://i36.tinypic.com/6oood3.jpg

it's largely cultural.

http://top-people.starmedia.com/tmp/swotti/cacheBGFYCNKGA2LUZW==UGVVCGXLLVBLB3BSZQ==/imgLarry%20King3.jpg
Expand on dat.

Why does whitey never on the moon?

I recently received the first Nona Hendryx album, which I kind of ordered by mistake (I thought it was "Nona" from 1983 that was rereleased, and didn't realize it was her debut until I had already ordered it).

The content surprised me though. Here is a black female soul singer who used to be in Labelle, recording a new wave-ish rock album as her solo debut. "Nona" would be more traditional soul music (and a great example of that), but this album is actually not at all bad, a fully fledge rock album, only sung with a soulful R&B voice.

you're on the wrong thread, but of course you would revive this

Nona Hendryx (produced by Tangerine Dream's Peter Bauman)'s "Skindiver". for fans of kate bush, peter gabriel or david sylvian

oh god, this thread.

omg the fine art of thread revive as self-parody

hey, i'm a black girl but i really do love rock music and i felt kinda bad about until I read some of things you wrote so thanks and I realaized that hey! music is music , if you like it you like it
― me, Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:42 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

This is the best post in the entire thread.

Quit reviving this shit, yo

Son House
Robert Johnson
Muddy Waters
Willie Dixon
John Lee Hooker
Howlin' Wolf
Elmore James
Ike Turner
Little Richard
Chuck Berry

equals invented rock & roll

I think maybe the question implied the word "anymore" at the end of it.

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss332/Aelok/Terrible.jpg

http://flecom.fragmachines.com/funny/this_thread_delivers.jpg

Geir made a comment upthread about Hall & Oates and the like. I remember the early 80s where, depending on where you shopped, you could find so-called "blue-eyed soul" filed under soul / r & b.

Why doesn't white indie rock kids want to country music?

they did in the 90s

um yeah have you heard of this band, I think they're called Wilco

Palace Bros

Cass McCoombs

"y'allternative"

http://www.nodepression.com/

http://www.mariobalotelli.it/en

Alt-country, huh? Someone link me to where pitchfork reviewed a Garth Brooks or Randy Travis album.

I think there's an interesting cultural conundrum buried in here somewhere. Top 40 music in other genres has crossed over to the indie set, but not Top 40 country music. Why not?

oh you're asking THAT question. take it up with the rolling country thread and chuck eddy et al

drummer from ocean colour scene was black, iirc.

well, pitchfork didn't exist when i was at my whitest and indiest, thank christ...

um, but yeah basically speaking as someone who worshipped uncle tupelo and shit back then, we definitely started to verge over to regular country which i still love to this day as a result of starting with tupelo/jayhawks/palace bros, etc...

obv it started with like townes van zandt, guy clark, jimmy dale gilmore etc...then on to waylon and willie....but then pretty soon a lot of my friends and i were listening to george jones, dwight yoakam (at the height of his commericial popularity circa "this time"), and even dudes like gary allen, (some) alan jackson, randy travis, george strait, and tons of o.g. shit old time nashville stuff

a lot of dudes that were super alt country (way more than me) that i came up with now are just country dudes period, don't even like indie at all anymore

vampire weekend's next record is gonna be country

typo

seems like an indie alt country revival would kinda make sense, by way of the grateful dead and the byrds, lots of nu-psych bands will probably end up going up the country eventually

You know why they keep making CDs when the rest of the world has figured out how to steal/download mp3s? COUNTRY MUSIC.

Why does people want to keep reviving this thread?

i do it for the lulz

http://i.imgur.com/9mNdr.gif

There was like a four page feature on Jamey Johnson in Spin. Brad and Miranda had a little crossover love in 2009 too.

Indie kidz and major country are still def in the "dabbling" stages but the marriage certainly isn't unheard of

I keep forgetting Spin exists.

You know why they keep making CDs when the rest of the world has figured out how to steal/download mp3s? COUNTRY MUSIC.

You know.... there is this funny little (?) thing called prog. It is actually now at its most popular since the mid 70s. And it has never quite caught on in the case of digital downloads. Maybe because people feel like concept albums filled with 30 minute suites and ambitious album artwork is more tempting to buy on CD than on digital files......

COUNTRY MUSIC and NORWEGIANS.

I hope this doesn't seem racist, it's just fascinating.
― Indieholic Anonymous, Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I guess it did seem rascist...
― Indieholic Anonymous, Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i often think about the title of this thread

didnt know where else to post this

https://medium.com/cuepoint/like-it-is-bob-dylan-explains-what-really-killed-rock-n-roll-f6a4b6587a1a#.xbtohz64s

very good, long read on dylan, race, rock n roll (and NOT the usual mojo history cliches)

that actual interview was discussed in depth on one of the Dylan threads. I don't think this interpretation is a well-kept secret or anything, the fall of the first generation of 50s rock giants (Chuck, Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee) is woven into most discussions of the history of the genre, I remember encountering it as a pre-teen watching "The Compleat Beatles" where its discussed in the context of how rock n roll hit a fallow period prior to the Beatles

I feel like Miriam Linna or someone once wrote about some good rockin stuff (albeit you had to look for it) that happened during the fallow period prior to the Beatles.

oh there's definitely good stuff between '60 and '63, it's just that the standard narrative is that rock died when Elvis joined the army/Chuck got arrested/Little Richard retired etc.

well i posted it here more for the race angle, which while not exactly new, idk, was interesting to hear dylan talk about it. his suggestion is something like r&r was black AND white (regardless of the exact roots), but once it was segregated, and once that segregation was enforced, it stopped being r&r as it was originally conceived.

idk how you could look at 60s music and not see that divide (and people periodically attempting to bridge it - Sly, the Stones etc.)

dylan is a pretty smart guy. knows a lot more than he says, i think.

but it's true that most people refuse to acknowledge that "rock and roll", 1963-forward, is a predominantly white musical form. i hate to bring him up, but that was the worst thing about klosterman's nyt garbage- this unquestioned, ingrained belief that rock and roll is a _black_ art form. this, just wall of white delusion and denial.

'59-'63 was a terrible time for the four or five founding behemoths, and a terrible time for the proliferation of Steve Lawrences and Bobby Vees. But, as has often been pointed out, from Motown to Spector to the second wave of doo-wop to girl groups to Pitney/Orbison/Shannon moodiness to lots else, there's no end of great stuff to search out.

I haven't looked at the article, and am certainly not trying to discredit anything Dylan has to say on the matter. He was there, I wasn't (I was, but not really), and he's always interesting on early rock 'n' roll.

"idk how you could look at 60s music and not see that divide (and people periodically attempting to bridge it - Sly, the Stones etc.)"

it is obvious. the divide is there. but i think his point is that it 'died' at that point. sly trying to erode the divide was an attempt, but it was a necessary (and contrived, not necessarily in a bad way) attempt because that initial, organic, conception of it had already died.

"but it's true that most people refuse to acknowledge that "rock and roll", 1963-forward, is a predominantly white musical form. i hate to bring him up, but that was the worst thing about klosterman's nyt garbage- this unquestioned, ingrained belief that rock and roll is a _black_ art form. this, just wall of white delusion and denial."

yep. regardless of racists trying to ignore the black strands, and weird liberals over emphasising the black roots ('IT IS *ALL* BLACK MUSIC!'), regardless of how it happened, the fact is just that most of the innovations have been from white artists. yes i know hendrix is towering, but even as he was bringing his R&B training to what he was doing (and the genre), he was playing in what was already a white rock style. it basically stopped being 'black music' a long time ago.

yeah I'm not disagreeing, I think his point that rock was at least fundamentally different after '59 is correct. Which is why Sly, when he came along, was seen as a welcome exception rather than the rule.

And of course circa 63 Brit acts were all covering material by Black musicians

You'd have to do a detailed check on this to be sure, but my guess is that, starting with the British Invasion bands, white covers of black hits are substantially better by the mid-'60s than in the '55-57 era. I like the original "Doo Wah Diddy Diddy" (Exciters) and "Go Now" (Bessie Banks) and "I'm Into Somethin' Good" (Earl-Jean) even better than the more famous covers, but the covers are pretty great too (and probably most people would go with Manfred Mann). The Beatles and Rolling Stones were generally fantastic covering girl group and Motown and Chuck Berry. Compare that with the horrifying Pat Boone-type cover from the '50s. (Exception: the Diamonds' "Little Darlin'.")

That the first three covers I listed were still the bigger hits remained...troublesome? complicated? grossly unfair? Manfred Mann and the Moody Blues and Herman's Hermits all did an excellent job.

You'd have to do a detailed check on this to be sure, but my guess is that, starting with the British Invasion bands, white covers of black hits are substantially better by the mid-'60s than in the '55-57 era. I like the original "Doo Wah Diddy Diddy" (Exciters) and "Go Now" (Bessie Banks) and "I'm Into Somethin' Good" (Earl-Jean) even better than the more famous covers, but the covers are pretty great too (and probably most people would go with Manfred Mann). The Beatles and Rolling Stones were generally fantastic covering girl group and Motown and Chuck Berry. Compare that with the horrifying Pat Boone-type cover from the '50s. (Exception: the Diamonds' "Little Darlin'.")

― clemenza

so white people got better at "cultural appropriation"? :)

I brought this point up in this in another thread, but it's probably more relevant to this discussion: It's interesting to look at the R&B chart of 1963 and consider the fact that there was so much overlap with the pop chart at that moment that Billboard stopped publishing an R&B chart for over a year, including all of 1964. In '63 people like Elvis, Roy Orbison, Bobby Darin, and the Beach Boys were placing records on the R&B chart. What was going on then? Were "black music" and "white music" converging? In early '65 the R&B chart comes back but it appears that white acts are seldom on it from that point forward - until the disco period when things get shaken up a little.

various guesses online--

http://www.discomusic.com/forums/showthread.php/42201-The-Missing-Billboard-Soul-Charts-1964-answer-and-Cash-Box-charts-here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_R%26B/Hip-Hop_Songs
From November 30, 1963, to January 23, 1965, there were no Billboard R&B singles charts. The chart was discontinued in late 1963 when Billboard determined it unnecessary due to so much crossover of titles between the R&B and pop charts in light of the rise of Motown.[5] The chart was reinstated with the issue dated January 30, 1965, as "Hot Rhythm and Blues Singles" when differences in musical tastes of the two audiences, caused in part by the British Invasion in 1964, were deemed sufficient to revive it.[citation needed]

^^^ I see one guy in the discomusic thread asking the question but no one takes him up on it (unless I'm missing something)

Down to it, it's a good naive question to ask. And the last points I've just skimmed over are very sensible.
Cultural / race divide is its own answer, as music is closely linked to education, heritage, identity. There hasn't been much white presence in some genres that retain a strong black majority even to this day. You just have to ask black artists what they were listening and admiring to as kids. There's already been much talk elsewhere about the woman side of the history of music (how many listeners even approach 'equality' there ?), which is a similar social question.

hell hath no whining like the whining of an entitled dude who believes in “real rock” pic.twitter.com/E583DZ692E

— maura 🎙 johnston (@maura) December 12, 2017