CCR vs. The Velvet Underground + The Stooges + Big Star Poll

Uh.

god damn you

if I loved CCR any less this would be an easy call
unfortunately I don't so it's not

Unsung was the wrong choice of word there - I meant not-selling-any-records

in their day

"The Gift" is the Velvets' "Keep On Chooglin'"

would definitely rather listen to a VU-Stooges-Big Star supergroup with iggy pop doing vocals for a 34 minute long version of 'thirteen'

velvets definitely choogled

ccr owns so hard

no no no I want this broke down to four options

brio I got love for you but if this ushers in a new era of really stupid polls where we pit combos against combos or three against one or whatever and it clogs up the site new answers, I will give you such a punch

I love these scientific polls lol xpost

http://cdn3.ioffer.com/img/item/137/517/203/FkhEHF7HPUGaALe.jpg

i know it's ludicrous but CCR would so steamroller it if you split the pointy-headed turtleneck vote.

that is why it probably doesn't make sense to poll 4 super unrelated bands at once?

Big Star covered VU
Stooges produced by VU-er

right which is why a Big Star vs. VU or Stooges vs. VU poll would sorta make sense? but there is no real logic to the 4 together.

split it up, we've all got enough edjicashun to add numbers afterwards

in fact, never mind, this poll is a malformed babby that demonstrates the need for planned parenthood

I stand by my supergroup answer btw, think about it

Once again..

I bought a CCR best of at a car boot, thinking "great"

Played it, decided "snooz"

So, it's easy..

VU, Big Star + Stooges are all bands that fared poorly commercially when they were active - all commonly used as examples of the record-buying public (or at least record companies) getting it wrong.

CCR are awesome and they were hugely popular.

It's a popular band vs. critical fave poll.

Everybody (pencil-necks + normals!) loves CCR, so the critical darlings needed to team up to compete.

It's TOTALLY scientific.

Everybody (pencil-necks + normals!) loves CCR

Mark G?

But point taken... I've been polling it up too much lately - I'll lay off for awhile.

And I'm sure the results will be meaningful.
I'll be sure to cite them in my article "Dudes on the internet talking baout bands."xpost

CCR are also a critical fave though and the VU/Stooges aren't particularly underground these days

exactly!

i mean it doesn't feel good to vote against ccr but...

Everybody (pencil-necks + normals!) loves CCR

Mark G?

Dunno, which one am I?

this might as well be "best American rock band of the late 60s/early 70s" poll

and CCR would still win

I could see VU winning by a few votes in a VU v. CCR poll

I think that poll already happened honestly

there was this:
Taking Sides: CCR vs. CR,CR

I love all of these bands but something should be mentioned about this:

Creedence Clearwater Revival - Released: July 5, 1968
Bayou Country - Released: January 5, 1969
Green River - Released: August 3, 1969
Willy and the Poor Boys - Released: November 2, 1969
Cosmo's Factory - Released: July 25, 1970
Pendulum - Released: December 7, 1970

Oh god yeah, insane!

is there really any reason to own any creedence album besides "twenty greatest hits" though? I know a lotta ppl say "greatest american rock band" but they seem pretty one-dimensional to me. like, compare to the stones: the stones have a lotta different looks. ditto the byrds, really. creedence, they do what they do. always a couple of classic jams. but really, I'd vote stooges or velvets against them any day.

The Velvets had 5 (including VU) in about the same time period?

brb ppl, resuscitating shakey

and yeah a3rosmith otm

Green River is a good place to start.

CCR album tracks are dope. Therein lies the variety.
But it's ludicrous to think that they are better than all three of those bands combined, imo.

is there really any reason to own any creedence album besides "twenty greatest hits" though?
i don't know, i thought this for a while, but there are some essential creedence jamz that don't make it onto the greatest hits. i guess the real question is "is there any reason not to own all the creedence album?"

The Velvet Underground & Nico - March 12, 1967
White Light/White Heat - January 30, 1968
The Velvet Underground - March 1969
Loaded - September 1970
Squeeze - February 1973

and yeah I mean the reason to own the other creedence albums is that there are lots of good songs on them. but the VU and Nico album alone has a greater variety of sounds/styles than CCR's entire career.

xp

COSMO'S FACTORY

The Velvets had 5 (including VU) in about the same time period?

not even close. look at that schedule, CCR released FOUR albums (all of which are fuckign amazing) within a 12-month time period.

Smithy the deep cuts on CCR albums are super-deep. Ramble Tamble, Pagan Baby, Sinister Purpose... so many

The Velvet Underground & Nico - March 12, 1967

Also, wasn't most of it recorded the year before?

CCR is critically revered now, but weren't they sort of dismissed as bubblegum at the time?

manyxxxposts

CCR did country, r&b, psych jamz, straight rock

and no love songs

except 4 tha luv of the bayou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT7OF8M6dfg

^^^unfuckwithable

Big Star:
#1 Record (Ardent/Stax, 1972)
Radio City (Ardent/Stax, 1974)
Third/Sister Lovers (PVC, 1978)

The Stooges (1969)
Fun House (1970)
Raw Power (1973)
The Weirdness (2007)

CCR certainly had the best sounding recordings

do not understand the ccr-is-one-dimensional argmnt i mean because if so they fuckin invented that dimension

yeah the time argument is super irrelevant anyway. it's like saying a prince/todd rundgren album is better cause they played all the instruments. it's impressive, but that's about it.

and i love vu and all but i would rather have the ccr COMMITMENT 2 EXCELLENCE than put up with mo tucker singing 'after hours'

"CCR certainly had the best sounding recordings"
Big Star records sound pretty damn great.

Yeah there are some AMAZING creedence deep cuts, aero be challopsin'. You gotta have the albums to hear JF stretch out and reveal his soloist genius, and to hear how CCR invented the early Can.

yeah I just listened to that "pagan baby" & it's fine but - it's like, creedence is something I dug hard one summer & was always stoked to hear & after that summer I never needed to hear it again. I listen to a lot of records (lol and make some) that are essentially just a dude yelling at me, but when fogerty starts up, I just wanna say, dude, quit yelling at me. let the melody work, if you've got one there. the skronky blues sound they're doin, I don't know, most of their less-successful peers in the "harder fifties rock" style do more for me, to be honest. I can't front on "have you ever seen the rain" and a lot of the other heavy hitters but I'm pretty sure that once I maxed out on fogerty's HI I AM YELLING style, the max-out was permanent.

whereas the velvets & the stooges are two of my favorite bands ever, even if I'm too sick of the velvets to really want to hear much more of them in this lifetime either

how CCR invented the early Can.

ehh

HI I AM YELLING style

this from a metal fan

xposts
come on there's tons of sweet non-yelling CCR

and I think you could throw the "quit yelling at me" argument at the stooges a lot easier (and still be wrong)

as I pointed out, I listen to a lot of stuff that's yelling, I'm sure if Morbid Angel ever gets as overplayed as CCR I'll be tired of them too

Iggy's low-croon is rad imo!

I listen to a lot of records (lol and make some) that are essentially just a dude yelling at me,

seriously shakey it can actually be fun to read a whole post and respond to it instead of copying-and-pasting the part you disagree with

it's called "discussing music & people's tastes," it's kinda enjoyable

CCR had all these layered clean guitar tones, none of it too complicated, drums and bass pushed forward in the mix, all pretty simple on the surface, and the end effect is just hard as fuck. they're totally magical.

they're like the last band on earth anyone thinks of as sonic wizards but JF is up there with hendrix as far as studio alchemy, imo, and less showy about it

and the end effect is just hard as fuck. they're totally magical.

goole, i cd hug u 4 this

john is getting all geir-y here, it's pretty charming...

? ccr seem like what geir's idea of a band would be - craft a template, stick to it, don't color outside the lines

who are you, alban berg? gimme a break

yeah I dunno how voting for VU/Stooges over a very melodic/easy to appreciate 60s pop band is geir-y

I mean m bison's earlier bit, do not understand the ccr-is-one-dimensional argmnt i mean because if so they fuckin invented that dimension, sure ok - buncha stuff on the pebbles box argues that they didn't really "invent" it maybe but w/e, but yeah - the Velvets start here, go here, end up here; the stooges go that first album to Raw Power, quite a distance; Creedence, well, it's THAT SOUND, right, has anybody ever asked "what band is this?" of a CCR record that was playing that they hadn't heard? not necessarily a bad thing, entirely, but like I say, when I'd gotten enough of that, it sort of started to sound equal parts good as lol-worthy - like you start replacing the lyrics out loud with recipes for pancakes or something

a "template" of 75% 2-and-a-half minute perfect pop/punk rock timeless HITS and 25% 9 minute swamp mantra spacerock jams allows for some coloring outside the lines

lol okay aero fair enough... personally I don't get tired of Fogerty's I AM YELLING thing, in fact a lot of times I'm kinda absorbed by how he puts these sweet harmonies on his melodies, while yelling ("Hey Tonight" for example). they are fun as hell to sing along too, and the melodies are simple and sturdy yet very rich-sounding. other guys have cited the studio technique and precision of the arrangements and I think that's undeniably a big part of the appeal as well - goole is right, this stuff just sounds great, and it's because of both the attention given to the engineering and the meticulous placement of the various elements. Fogerty was a craftsman fronting a band that could also jam like there was no tomorrow, cycling through riffs and little changes without ever losing steam or direction or sense of purpose - that's really rare, that combination of pop instincts and experimental out-there-ness. The yelling, I dunno, it's just a small piece of the puzzle - albeit an important one. The only other white dude that ever got close to approximating that black r&b soul shouting style like Fogerty did is maybe Bob Seger...? Otherwise the vocals are obviously in the tradition of Otis Redding, Sam & Dave, Little Richard, etc.

(iatee people like to compare others to geir when they've run out of arguments, it's an old playground technique: "you sound like smelly!"

I thought u had me on block tho!)

CCR lack that album development as biography that VU and Big Star have. Like its interesting to see the changes that VU/Big Star went thru with each album (the diff. between Vu&Nico to Loaded and No.1 Record to Sister Lovers). I only have Creedence Gold and Bayou Country and as much as I really enjoy them, I feel that's pretty much all I need. Not so much darkness and maybe too much imaginary Americana with CCR which I guess lacks credibility next to the drugs and sleaze of the other three.

? ccr seem like what geir's idea of a band would be - craft a template, stick to it, don't color outside the lines

lol Geir hates CCR iirc (too much R&B!) now you are just trolling

they totally colored outside the lines, check Rude Awakening No. 2 or all the solos+backwards vocals on Heard it Through the Grapevine

equal parts good as lol-worthy

Aaaaaanne.... my aaaaanne.

IIII LOOOOOVE YEEEEW

I feel like CCR is one-dimensional in maybe the same way that someone like Buddy Holly or Chuck Berry are one-dimensional and that that one-dimensionality doesn't distract me from enjoying hell out of their music. On the other hand, and it's important to bring up, I only own hits comps from these artists.

Not so much darkness

lol waht CCR is like ALL DARKNESS. Bad Moon Rising!

But THAT doesn't make me love them any less either.

CCR is "one-dimensional" like Johnny Cash or The Ramones are "one-dimensional" - only on the surface, and totally on purpose.

who are you, alban berg? gimme a break

new ILM board description?

the best part of CCR is that how much of the band was mythological... JF was a minor league baseball player in Stockton when he wrote most of the choons, the band themselves were from El Cerrito, kind of a quaint Oakland suburb... but damn that sound/vox were straight up delta swamp.

they totally colored outside the lines, check Rude Awakening No. 2 or all the solos+backwards vocals on Heard it Through the Grapevine

yeah I mean but you have to admit: some variations are present, but this is a band that found the thing they do, and stuck to it. contrast with the Byrds (and the Velvets), who when they get interested in something else, go ahead and cross completely over into some other area and figure out how to still sound like themselves. this isn't always a virtue - I love the Cars, partly 'cause they always sound like the Cars, and I like that sound; I don't want to hear a Cars album that doesn't sound like that. but with CCR, it's like, after a while I feel like, ok man, I got the point...and you're still yelling at me lol

xpost also Johnny Cash, throughout his career, tried out a LOT of different looks - he cannot be called one dimensional in any way, really, except that it's always him singing.

You're no Bruce Vallance (sp?) !

All sunshine and lollipops here!

When the sky is gray
And the moon is hate
I'll be down to get you.
Roots of earth will shake.
Sinister Purpose
Knockin' at your door;
Come and take my hand.
Burn away the goodness;
You and I remain.
Did you see the last war?
Well, here I am again.
I can set you free,
Make you rich and wise.
We can live forever;
Look into my eyes

CCR is "one-dimensional" like Johnny Cash or The Ramones are "one-dimensional" - only on the surface, and totally on purpose.

which is why I'd vote for VU ahead of all 3?

Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry VS. Johnny Cash and the Ramones - which artists are CCR more like?

New Poll?

lol waht CCR is like ALL DARKNESS. Bad Moon Rising!

lol did anybody ever get any kind of actual chill from BMR, he says there's a bad moon rising & there's trouble coming but the tune itself says "wanna beer? there's beer in the fridge"

i've never resisted getting into ccr, it just hasn't happened yet (even though i love everything i've heard by them) but this friend of mine who's a huge fan always got all indignant whenever i told him i hadn't really ever listened to any of their records, and would insist on taking out a record and just letting the needle fall wherever to prove to me how perfect everything they ever did was. neat trick.

yeah CCR is like the Ramones or AC/DC or Too $hort or Chuck Berry in their monolithic I DO THIS AND IT IS AWESOME - on the surface it's all of a piece and the consistency is immediately evident. and dig underneath and there's like centipedes and worms and buried treasure and shit

xp

CCR is "one-dimensional" like Johnny Cash or The Ramones are "one-dimensional" - only on the surface, and totally on purpose.

― Brio, Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:34 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is v profound and otm to me

(iatee people like to compare others to geir when they've run out of arguments, it's an old playground technique: "you sound like smelly!"

I thought u had me on block tho!)

― in which we apologize for sobering up (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:29 AM (7 minutes ago)

more like people here have been trolled for some goddamn long it's gonna take something special to out-troll the trollmaster.

and would insist on taking out a record and just letting the needle fall wherever to prove to me how perfect everything they ever did was. neat trick.

right, and you can't do this w/ the Velvets cause you might not be in a 'sister ray' mood or maybe you are and you don't want to get 'sunday morning'. but w/ CCR, well, you're gonna get CCR...

lol did anybody ever get any kind of actual chill from BMR, he says there's a bad moon rising & there's trouble coming but the tune itself says "wanna beer? there's beer in the fridge"

this is called juxtaposition and it is a clever and commonly used pop trick btw (see every Steely Dan song ever)

I would not have expected you to seriously argue for versatility as a primary factor in evaluating music aero - like VU and Big Star are better because they did more, different stuff (altho this is basically the same argument I used to explain why Zeppelin is better than Sabbath lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtURmn_knzA

this song == THE LORD'S WORK

a3ro I don't have you on block! I think lots of people might have us both on block tho.

im amazed by the amount of classic tunes they released in one year in 3 albums

yeah Steve I'm not sure how talking about how I think of music is trolling but w/e dude, here is a lollypop, have a nice day

http://www.inloughborough.com/newsimages//2008/04/images/lollipop.jpg

and no actually shakey versatility/multiple looks, it varies from band to band - like I say, with CCR, I just completely maxed out when I was like 19. it was like, I have been yelled at by that one guy enough times to last me forever, and thereafter, every time I'd hear his voice, I'd think, yup, I reached the saturation point. so I think, you know, if the stuff sounded more wide-ranging, maybe that wouldn't have happened as quickly? but for real, it's like, I don't say "bad moon rising" is a bad tune, but if I'm flipping stations and it comes on, I keep right on going, because my ability to feel interested or moved by that tune had a window & that window closed. or got busted out. or whatever, but that's my experience of creedence: they were quite welcome, and then they wore out their welcome with me. whereas two of these other bands (I am really undereducated on big star), even though I listened to them both like daily for months at a time, that never happened.

steve let me know if that's "trolling," wouldn't wanna upset an interesting poll thread with fleshing out opinions or anything

yeah Steve I'm not sure how talking about how I think of music is trolling but w/e dude,

again with the Geirism (see board desc.)! Anyone can have opinions however wrong they may be.

No seriously, you'd think all of us would be numb from the infinite loop of challops swirling around this opium den of rock opinion.

CCR rules, no offense taken or meant.

The one thing I learned from ILM is that sacred cows make the tastiest burgers (also that avril invented punk).

i can feel u on maxing out on some bands or w/e, but the fact that it's ccr 4 u is ;_; 2 me

xxp

yeah but Geir's trolling because he has the same opinion, always and everywhere, which he has already expressed several times - he is uninterested in hearing the opinions of others. I'm describing how I respond to a band about whom I haven't really talked much I don't think, and doing so in order to hear more about how people who really love that band respond both to the band and to opinions different from their own. This is called "dialogue," sorry if it seemed Geirist to you.

y'know, the one big criticism that I have when it comes to CCR is that they never wrote a really good love song. or did they? is there something I'm forgetting?

is there really any reason to own any creedence album besides "twenty greatest hits" though?
Well, you would need Vol. 2 or Willy and the Poor Boys as well, since they include the incredible "It Came Out of the Sky."

many many xposts

Johnny Cash, throughout his career, tried out a LOT of different looks - he cannot be called one dimensional in any way, really, except that it's always him singing.

With the Tennessee Two on Sun Records, Johnny Cash made many full albums of variations on the same songs - at least as much as Bo Diddley or The Ramones and much more than CCR. The boom-chicka-boom-chika beat, Luther's identical solos on every song, his vocal range and cadence, the lyrical content.

y'know, the one big criticism that I have when it comes to CCR is that they never wrote a really good love song. or did they? is there something I'm forgetting?

no, they never wrote one. It may be emblematic of Fogerty's notorious assholishness/self-centeredness that he notes this with some pride, but I think it kinda makes the band MORE interesting. (otoh did Lou ever write a really good love song? all VU's lovey-dovey stuff has an undertone of creepiness/perversion)

'i found a reason'

Cash really did go all over Brio. Comedy albums, gospel soundtracks, train songs, you name it.

ok aero you are saying that:

(1) JF sounds the same (shouty, yelling) on most of the band's material
(2) CCRd's sound doesn't deviate from a given template (and therefore the band's sound is easily identifiable)

?

y'know, the one big criticism that I have when it comes to CCR is that they never wrote a really good love song. or did they? is there something I'm forgetting?

they covered "I heard it through the grapevine"! frankly I think that was the beginning of my problems with this band because I was in high school freaking out on how much I loved Marvin Gaye and suddenly there's a ROCK! AND! ROLL! version of the song and I'm like "ok, this sucks" which remains my opinion of their cover of Grapevine tbh

xpost ok - that accounts for, what, 1/4 of Johnny Cash's career? whereas as early as 1964, try Cash's "Apache Tears" - guy's already reaching pretty far afield, and by the seventies he's doing all kinds of stuff. The Tennessee Two are as about-their-business on one style as CCR, yes, correct, but Johnny Cash goes on to do many, many different styles.

dunno, i guess "Grapevine" isn't really the kind of song I'm thinking of ...

i think we can all agree that "centerfield" is godawful

but if we get into any of these dudes 80s output sketchiness abounds

centerfield is fun! there's one clip where fogerty plays a guitar made out of baseball bat! :D

(1) JF sounds the same (shouty, yelling) on most of the band's material
(2) CCRd's sound doesn't deviate from a given template (and therefore the band's sound is easily identifiable)

both of these to some extent! I mean, I'm guessing that if you're a deep-catalog CCR dude you're about to blow my mind with a Fogerty singing example that isn't tied-to-the-mast bellowing, but the hits are all big-throated and just exhausted my interest as I've said. and yeah, sonically, it does seem (and you could talk at length about how there's a whole ideology of thinking this in two ways) that CCR's idea is "there is a sound that represents 'us,' and we're working toward the truest realization of that sound" - as vs., say, bands who work on a "reach outside of the sound that defines you, contradict it, shun it" - Dylan being a good example I guess of a guy for whom changing styles but retaining identity has been very important, and a good example of what's good & vital & brave in that "philosophy"/approach

(otoh did Lou ever write a really good love song? all VU's lovey-dovey stuff has an undertone of creepiness/perversion)

heroin

i think we can all agree that "centerfield" is godawful
Sounds great in a ballpark.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BpaPFGDgijI/SN-ZqTJp8KI/AAAAAAAABk0/PjYbSLvD58I/s320/fogerty.jpg

i think we can all agree that "centerfield" is godawful
^^^^^^^^^ ENEMY

voted ccr.

scott, you voted ccr over the stooges

I'm not voting in this silly poll but my xmas list just got one name shorter you giant traitor you

"night time is the right time" is a love song, the love for getting mad ruddy

guess i'm thinking more "tender," love songs, haha. same could be said about stooges, I suppose. it's not like a huge problem I have, it's just something I thought is missing from CCR's oeuvre.

I think that "Wrote a song for everyone" is the closest CCR gets to love songs.

^^^yeah that's the one I would cite too, but even that is forlorn

Kind of an anti-love song, really.

yeah, i thought of that one and then i looked at the lyrics:
was feelin' strung out, Hung out on the line.
Saw myself a goin', down to war in June.
All I want, All I want is to write myself a tune.

CHORUS:
Wrote A Song For Ev'ryone,
Wrote a song for truth.
Wrote A Song For Ev'ryone
When I couldn't even talk to you.

Got myself arrested, Wound me up in jail.
Richmond 'bout to blow up, Communication failed.
If you see the answer, now's the time to say.
All I want, All I want is to get you down to pray.

CHORUS

CHORUS

Saw the people standin' thousand years in chains.
Somebody said it's diff'rent now, look, it's just the same.
Pharoahs spin the message, round and round the truth.
They could have saved a million people, How can I tell you?

Weird

Actual recorded oeuvre, for listening to by me in 2010: would vote CCR
Legacy of musical influence aka body of followers: would vote the other 3

I've listened to the Big Star box set every day since I bought it, I think.

I think that "Wrote a song for everyone" is the closest CCR gets to love songs.

The first example to came to mind.

But if I'm hearing them correctly, the object of desire in most if not all CCR songs is a mythic America plundered by Nixon and other perfidious politicians. A large part of the reason why Fogerty's dried up as an interesting artist (I don't doubt he's still got the craftsmanship and chops though) is that he needed dragons to destroy and windmills to knock down. Plus, he had a listening public just as interested in what he had to say (CCR were the biggest rock band of 1969 and 1970; check out their sales stats). Which explains why he sounded like a crank in 1985. Reagan's kind of bad-moon-rising was subtler than Nixon's, so a "Fortunate Son" or "Who Will Stop The Rain" in 1985 sounded nostalgic instead of angry, soft and embittered instead of righteous.

"scott, you voted ccr over the stooges"

i know but i love creedence and i didn't like the idea of all those bands ganging up on them. plus i hate bands that reunite 40 years after their heyday. or 30 years. or whatever. okay, i don't hate them, but i hate when they do it. for some reason. man, you ever try and watch that VU reunion video? so boring. (i don't begrudge people making money off of their past work. more power to them. i just don't like it.)

[sorry for many xposts, i had to work!]

both of these to some extent! I mean, I'm guessing that if you're a deep-catalog CCR dude you're about to blow my mind with a Fogerty singing example that isn't tied-to-the-mast bellowing, but the hits are all big-throated and just exhausted my interest as I've said. and yeah, sonically, it does seem (and you could talk at length about how there's a whole ideology of thinking this in two ways) that CCR's idea is "there is a sound that represents 'us,' and we're working toward the truest realization of that sound" - as vs., say, bands who work on a "reach outside of the sound that defines you, contradict it, shun it" - Dylan being a good example I guess of a guy for whom changing styles but retaining identity has been very important, and a good example of what's good & vital & brave in that "philosophy"/approach

― in which we apologize for sobering up (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:02 AM (3 minutes ago)

well, CCR were miserably, pissy, and frustrated. their arrival on the music scene was at the end of Summer of Love... think Altamont ca. "Sympathy", not some Haight/Ashbury love-in. The country had gone to war, Nixon took office... there was no time for "Don't Worry Be Happy" or the late 60s equivalent anymore. I recommend spending some time with the lyrics to Tombstone Shadow or Sinister Purpose off of Green River, some creepy ass shit. As for shouty/yelly/one-dimensional sound... you may want to also take aim at Stooges, no?

As I posted upthread, CCR did not have the luxury of developing a wider* range of styles because they were workhorses, 4 epic albums in less than 12 months time containing songs that many people sing along to today. Surely if they had the longevity they would may have strayed from their classic, easily indentifiable sound but they did not have that luxury of time. Sure by the late 70s you had Wire sounding like a new band on every record, but I think that is a more modern construct of switching styles on every album, your example Dylan is not as malleable over 1-2 year periods unless I'm overlooking some huge confluence of genre exercise and productivity (contract fulfillments?)

*"wider" because I'm not of the opinion that the CCR template of styles is quite as narrow as folks are suggesting.

I think Mike Watt has a better answer for this than I do: that there is an economy in a CCR song, nothing wasted, nothing superfluous. There is no fancy showmanship in the playing, the songwriting structure is not sophisto, they kept the pop songs are short, the jams keep on chooglin'. I think you're giving them short shrift. Sit down with an LP of theirs, shit it's been over 20 years right? ...maybe you'll find something there.

otoh when Fogerty broke out Fortunate Son for the Superbowl (I think?) during Gulf War II I was like "ah! yessss"

xp

plus i hate bands that reunite 40 years after their heyday. or 30 years.
these guys have the casino circuit locked up! http://www.creedence-revisited.com/dates.html
(obv. more of a tribute band)

although yeah there probably isn't one creedence album that i love as much as funhouse or first big star album. taken as a whole though...

i mean i would probably pick thin lizzy over those other three too. just for their body of work. and the inspiration they give me as a human. creedence are very inspiring to me as well.

love CCR but the COMBINED part of the poll makes the second option an easy one

(obv. more of a tribute band)

yeah, no John. and Tom's dead.

a fogerty-less CCR ... weird.

I'm w/Scott on reunions though. I get all bummed out when bands start playing again - I seem to recall getting called a fun-hater on this very board for getting all "who gives a fucking shit" about some reunion or other, probably mbv. OTOH, I have to say, I feel like Mission of Burma's reunion is a textbook example of How To Do It, If You Must - their reunion albums kick all kinds of ass

they were great when i saw them on marthas vineyard. mission of burma. but i was never a superfan so i didn't go expecting much. swans thing doesn't fill me with joy. loved the whole iconic swans are dead thing. oh well.

In terms of importance to my own life, I'd rank them 1) Velvets, 2) CCR, 3) Stooges, 4) Big Star. So trying to evaluate a preference based on a three-vs.-one is kind of knotty.

many many xposts to shakey and aero
Hey I know Cash went all over - just saying he did have an element of the Platonic Ideal of the perfect Song refined over and over and this can be a totally valid, cool and smart artistic decision, not a liability. If you wanna reject Cash as an example of this, fine - Bo Diddley maybe? CCR did it to some extant too - and when I hear them criticized for lack of versatility or being one-dimensional, I think it's missing the point in a big way. What made them (and early Cash or first-four Ramones) so great is that consistency, confidence, and focus.

yeah I thought of Bo Diddley too but didn't mention him cuz, um, my favorite Bo Diddley is probably Black Gladiator lol

when I hear them criticized for lack of versatility or being one-dimensional, I think it's missing the point in a big way. What made them (and early Cash or first-four Ramones) so great is that consistency, confidence, and focus.

sure, I hear you, and there are plenty of single-focus bands who I love for being just how they are - but in a vs./taking-sides situation, it's fair to say, well, one or more of these bands seems to have been more open to risk, more interested in fields beyond the ones they'd already proven themselves masters of, etc. it's a point in favor of the band who exhibited more musical curiosity.

all those other bands were together longer than CCR fyi

maybe they shoulda stuck together longer then

shakey, it seems to me that you have pointed this out already. I hereby acknowledge that CCR was together for a short period of time. I would also like to point out that between 1967 and 1969, the Beatles, who I almost never cite as a reference for anything, tried on a whole bunch of looks, as did the Velvets during a similar timeframe.

also oasis, coldplay and genesis

you know who was together for an even shorter period of time was the Suggest Bans

and pat smear STILL played guitar for them

ya they were only around from '50-'51 iirc

between 1967 and 1969, the Beatles, who I almost never cite as a reference for anything, tried on a whole bunch of looks

this isn't really true imho - post-psychedelia (ie by 1968) the Beatles settled into their disgruntled/disoriented rock phase and pretty much never left it. The White Album to Abbey Road is all very much of a piece.

the white album itself isn't even all of a piece, geddouddahere

'something' and 'revolution no. 9' are of a piece?

i always thought it was kinda cool that ccr ignored a lot of the stuff that was going on around them. not lyrically, but style-wise.

the white album itself isn't even all of a piece, geddouddahere

a long haired bearded piece

Yeah, they were the John Wesley Harding of choog.

New (Old) Warehouse Decree: EVERY FRIDAY is CREEDENCE FRIDAY

songs Fogerty doesn't shout on, btw:

Lodi
Crosstie Walker
Who'll Stop the Rain
Sailor's Lament

I'm sure there's others

"who'll stop the rain" is plenty shouty, it's not as big but c'mon - AAAAIIII wanna KNOOOW! etc - this is a song I would prefer to hear delivered with about 50% less classic rock

or instrumental, maybe

bluegrass and country covers of who'll stop the rain are always awesome. i have a bunch of them on various albums.

even if you took 50% of the classic rock out of CCR they would still be one million percent classic rock, with some left to spare

voted CCR because "proud mary" really mellowed me out after a horrible day. thanks CCR.

even if you took 50% of the classic rock out of CCR they would still be one million percent classic rock, with some left to spare

irl lol!

aero how do you feel about ZZ Top (who often remind me of CCR sans the politics and more fun/goofier - altho both feature guys doing double duty as saxophonists)

they're cool! sometimes really cool. still no way I'd vote for them over, like, Television + PiL + Wire which would be an similarly absurd poll to me

not that that will stop a poll lover from goin AWW YES GREAT IDEA I imagine lol

well zz top vs. creedence might be interesting

ZZ Top fucked around with their sound a lot more than ccr did. dave q's posts on zz top in the ilx archives are good fun.

the anachronistic fallacies in this thread are getting really zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

in fact, never mind, this poll is a malformed babby that demonstrates the need for planned parenthood

― Grisly Addams (WmC), Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:15 AM (4 hours ago)

growing up ugly and oxygen-deprived

Reagan's kind of bad-moon-rising was subtler than Nixon's, so a "Fortunate Son" or "Who Will Stop The Rain" in 1985 sounded nostalgic instead of angry, soft and embittered instead of righteous.

Not to Minutemen fans.

And Otis Redding didn't sing in a fixed shout--can't really imagine Fogerty singing "Try a Little Tenderness."

Saw Fogerty for the only time opening on the Rock for Change tour and he was amazing--that clarion voice is a force of nature. He used to say they CCR and James Brown were the best live bands of their time, and I'm beginning to think that wasn't hubris.

the relentless implication on this thread is that CCR didn't experiment enough, are too meat n potatoes, too classic rock, too boring, somehow too easy

BUT nobody else really sounds like Creedence (except that one Hollies rip-off and Howlin Rain) while literally hundreds if not THOUSANDS of indie/punk bands have knocked off the others ad nauseum for years

SO who's more trad, more "template", more played-out?

well, i don't know, it's not like CCR haven't been totally influential -- probably on a wider range of artists than the stooges/vu/big star!

yeah they're influential but hard to ape.
when people cover CCR it never sounds like them - the best use the songs to go somewhere different, like Ike & Tina or The Voidoids.

I think I have crawled out on a such a tangled and fragile limb no-ne will even toss an apple at it.

toughest q ever

Choogling wins every time -

i mean i would probably pick thin lizzy over those other three too. just for their body of work. and the inspiration they give me as a human. creedence are very inspiring to me as well.

― scott seward, Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:48 AM (5 hours ago)

^^^^this X100^^^^

BUT nobody else really sounds like Creedence (except that one Hollies rip-off and Howlin Rain) while literally hundreds if not THOUSANDS of indie/punk bands have knocked off the others ad nauseum for years

well, yes, but imo that's because creedence are pretty throwback - their roots are heavily in buddy holly etc & etc., people wanting to mine the same territory aren't gonna ape creedence, they're gonna drink directly from the well

"who'll stop the rain" is plenty shouty, it's not as big but c'mon - AAAAIIII wanna KNOOOW! etc - this is a song I would prefer to hear delivered with about 50% less classic rock

or instrumental, maybe

― in which we apologize for sobering up (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

thats have you ever seen the rain, dude. CCR wins here, but theyre both good teams!

I'm not really that into either the Stooges or Big Star, tbh, so this comes down to VU vs. CCR for me. On that basis, I'd call it a tie, or pretty close to it.

seconded, o. nate

their roots are heavily in buddy holly etc & etc., people wanting to mine the same territory aren't gonna ape creedence, they're gonna drink directly from the well

oh yeah because there's so many buddy holly songs that sound like "ramble tamble"'s sky-breaks-open middle part or "walk on the water", it's basically like covering "that'll be the day" when nobody gets that creedence sound ever

(no disrespect buddy)

i mean nobody ever being able to pull off creedence except creedence EVER is essentially the same thing as your dad's bowling league doing "rock around the clock" obv

I'll take Buddy Holly over CCR any day, too, for that matter

OR maybe people aren't aping ccr because it's really fucking deceptively hard, whereas aping the stooges is really fucking obviously easy?

(love ya, stooges, keep up the good work)

aping being the operative word here, which does not imply pulling it off (which is really fucking hard)

naw I'll take "people want to sound cool and edgy instead of like one of those bands that causes somebody's dad to comment 'now that's how you do it" when their overplayed jam comes on the radio"

like what?

i'm not saying people don't play classic rock that dads like

i'm saying nobody even tries to sound like creedence because they can't

yu know even something obvious like "proud mary" jumps right out on good time oldies as something better than the last ten songs you just heard and the next ten songs you will hear

better than awesome shit like "sugar sugar" and "the letter" and "down in the boondocks" and "98.6" even

yeah that is just not my experience of when "proud mary" comes on

when proud mary comes on I say to myself "life is too short for me to ever listen to this again, not that it's bad, just that I never care to hear it again"

ooh wow, the rhetoric of edgy youth vs. stodgy dads, now we are doing real criticism

can't wait for someone to bring up soccer moms, the suburbs, corporate sponsorship..."edgy" criticism, you know

alternate answer: life is too short to miss a single opportunity to jam out to proud mary every fucking chance you get and life is way too short to be mad at ccr for being so awesome that people want to jam out to them 24-7.

yeah sorry for not being more forward-looking in my criticisms Euls! Brio said:

i'm saying nobody even tries to sound like creedence because they can't

and I don't buy that at all - I think if it's the case that people don't try to sound like Creedence, which is the assertion to which I'm responding, it's because they don't want to sound: dated, staid, Big Chill.

Brio you seem like such a nice dude that it almost makes me feel bad for switching the station before he can get to "left a good job in the city," but I'm still gonna have to do it every time, because hearing it is weirdly depressing to me

fair enough - but I've gotta say i've had the same get me outta here sensation about hearing "I wanna be yr dog" or "heroin" or even perfect ol' "september gurls" at certain parties or gigs

actually that shit: hearing the same old "edgy" juvenile druggy black eyeliner anthem 40 years down the line is WAY more weirdly depressing than hearing a party tune about doing dishes and pumping gas

yeah I'm with you on those but with creedence for me the sound itself subs for what I'm calling the "that's how ya do it" mentality - like, if I hear them at all, my immediate response is, oh, good, classic rock. like I have to admit that the songs are good, can't front, but the sound is like, Jesus, please, no more of this, ever. whereas when I hear "I heard her call my name" or most anything off the self-titled 3rd velvets album, or "Down In the Street" or the title track from "Raw Power" - it's not the same feeling as "somebody's playing 'Heroin' again, shoot me now" or "you didn't actually decide to cover 'I Wanna Be Your Dog,' did you?" nb full disclosure when my high school band got back together for a one-off, we fully covered "I Wanna Be Your Dog" & even opened with it iirc

dude i covered "i wanna be your dog" in high school too

and it killed and was super-fun

but you know what i'm saying... and i hear ya too.

packin' it in.

word Brio good spending the middle of the insomniac night with you chewin the fat & stuff!

Anyone who says no one wants to sound like Creedence hasn't heard these guys:

http://bandbent.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/kings-of-leon-rolling-stone-cover.jpg

They don't sound anything like them though? Funny, but I have always thought of that stripped down no-nonsense sound the Velvets had on their 1969 recordings (as on "VU" and "Another View") as being related to CCR in some way - could be that they were just demos though!

there has to be some kind of godwin's law about bringing up the big chill

xpost.. The first album sure does though they have definitely moved more into U2 aping since.

goole otm

law states "As an online music discussion among old dudes grows longer, the probability of somebody being reminded of the Big Chill approaches 1" iirc

what do you think of steve miller?

i can't stand that garbage myself

Liked his album with Lol Coxhill (xp)

seriously goole? I consider Steve Miller's Greatest Hits one of the greatest albums of all time, full stop

this is me throwing up my hands at this point

do not besmirch the good name of steve miller

he is literal shit

nah i seen pictures, mostly flesh and bone iirc

steve miller greatest hits = pretty good times imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1f7eZ8cHpM

shawty this jam just ~takes me there~

love that i wake up and this thread has turned to steve miller talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6kzW2cpfgg
this is my fave -- total classic

man this thread

where did the baseball puns go

Now see, I like Steve Miller Band hits just fine but I would have to be actually riding shotgun with an open beer on the way to going swimming in a lake to sing along with "The Joker" on the radio. Steve Miller is strictly three-day-weekend material. CCR sounds great on wednesday.

How is Steve Miller Band not one of those bands that causes somebody's dad to comment 'now that's how you do it" when their overplayed jam comes on the radio?

doesn't homer basically do that in a simpsons episode?

i thought that was grandfunk

oh right, he's singing along to 'the joker' in a 70s flashback

steve miller is a lot of bullshit to sit through just to hear some good synth playing occasionally

but yeah, if there is ANYTHING that represents 'dad enjoying the classic rock station' more than CCR it's the steve miller band. I mean that's practically their reason for existence, whereas CCR can be enjoyable in other contexts.

the joker might be the song i hate the most, ever, of all time

yeah i am a-ok with steve miller but i can't abide by the joker

my dad mainly listens to talk radio. if he was going to say "now THAT'S how you do it" he'd probably say it if a Cream song came on.

i h8 that song myself, but i look at it as a shitty aberration

xp

you guys are dissing "gangsta of love" by the geto boys by proxy and i think u should be ashamed

go for the earlier Stevie Miller greatest hits package imo. ('68 -'73, maybe)

he made the guitar do a wolf whistle! he's basically a sexual harasser imo

No he isn't, his guitar is

also brave new world by steve miller is dope on wax

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVEgDSOx_5w

how do you fancy lads feel about SEGER? does knock your your spectacles off the bridge of yr nose?

(yeah it's about to get REAL)

seek out quicksilver girl, living in the usa, my dark hour, going to mexico, etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj3Ia7Bn5wQ

IF YOU'RE NOT OUTRAGED YR NOT PAYING ATTENTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=487t88pz-2Y

from the youtube comments:

#
anolmec
5 months ago 6
wow thanks for posting this. It occurs to me that the outrage of the 60's, that stopped a war and gave birth to the civil rights movement was due in large to the great artist,the likes of seger, dylan, guthrie. We've lost A LOT.

that's how you do it

the likes of seger, dylan, guthrie

The Cocteau Twins helped stop a war?

in addition to his role in the civil rights movement, seger is great -- even more mad respect to him now that I've heard his early stuff thanks to the ILM comp that's floating around.

bob seger singlehandedly ended jim crow

but the best part about that comment is that i really hope that person believed that pete seger was singing that song...from his "dark period"

wouldn't mind hearing Pete Seeger doing "Night Moves"

or "The Joker"

Listening to Mongrel and the other early Pete Seger System stuff has opened me up to Silver Bullet Band gold - sounds great while actually drinking Silver Bullets.

Not to harp on this - but am I wrong in arguing that no-one really sounds like CCR upthread?

I mean I'm sure heartland rockers like Petty and Seger and Mellencamp and D Boon and Springsteen loved CCR and tried to emulate some things about them - but they don't sound like em in the way bands digging on VU and Stooges do/

I have a feeling I may be spectacularly wrong about this. Am I overestimating the singularity of the OG Chooglers?

the likes of seger, dylan, guthrie

The Cocteau Twins helped stop a war?

― Wenlock & Mandelson (Tom D.), Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:10 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

have never shook my damn head at a post on ILM more

xpost no, there's no one I can think of that *really* sounds like CCR -- if they do, it's like they're doing an obvious tribute to them. but i'm of the opinion that not many bands *actually* sound like the VU (or Big Star for that matter), despite being wildly influential. (Stooges, yeah, bands sound like the stooges).

or Big Star for that matter

Teenage Fanclub? Certainly not thru want of trying, put it that way!

yeah, they sound like Big Star, but even that seems kind of overstated to me.

yeah teenage fanclub

as far as "sounding" like the velvets...to me, the velvet's influence is a way of approaching music...minimalism, repetition, drone...

like they changed the way i saw music

the lol kings of leon thing upthread has me thinking though -- was CCR like the Kings of Leon of their day? obviously, CCR is way better than the horrible Kings of Leon, but I'm talking about perception. Were CCR critically uncool? Did Jefferson Airplane fans turn their noses up? Like, say, a Radiohead fan would turn their nose up at KoL? HMMM.

xposts
yeah - nobody sounds exactly like VU or Big Star - just that there have been a lot more overt hommages to those bands than to CCR. Teenage Fanclub and Replacements to Big Star; Galaxie 500 and Jesus and Mary Chain to VU, etc etc

i guess with CCR there might just be less places to take that sound.

was CCR like the Kings of Leon of their day?

tyler you are a real bro and i <3 you so i'm gonna go ahead and pretend i didn't read this

lol sorry, but i'm talking about how they were perceived by you know, "serious" rock fans. trust me, kings of leon suck!

ok thinking real hard here - there must be some straight-up heart-on-the-sleeve creedence hommages out there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP94PlEtsEQ

yeah that's the only one i can think of....hell i thought that WAS a creedence song for a long time

Actually Status Quo had a bit of a CCR thing going on

Pavement were/are big CCR fans -- there's one tune, "Harness Your Hopes" that has a kinda Creedence vibe. They also covered Sinister Purpose live.

very weird video for Nick Lowe's CCR hommage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEItr0Zy9s

Could certainly imagine Status Quo doing something like "Hey Tonight"

but am I wrong in arguing that no-one really sounds like CCR upthread?

no, you're not wrong - this is a very hard band to "ape", and like Tyler says yeah its kinda like where do you go with that sound, you will just sound like a terrible copyist (see every sub-Ramones or sub-Stooges band, there are A LOT)

Pavement came kinda close, occasionally ("Unfair")

but they never had the rhythmic muscle

yeah, obviously pavement were never as tight ... dunno, gotta say that people like springsteen/mellencamp + mainstream country acts are probably the best examples of being inspired by ccr. maybe in alt-country circles you'd find some stuff. Uncle Tupelo covered Effigy -- and they had CCR love filtered through their love of the Minutemen too.

(see every sub-Ramones or sub-Stooges band, there are A LOT)

was a time when this was called punk...

correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't bands like The Gun Club or The Flesh Eaters kind of Creedence-y? The Blasters, even?

Gun Club's a good call actually

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

trying to imagine what a song featuring all the members of VU, the Stooges and Big Star would sound like lol

odds of it being better than any CCR song = pretty low

I could see VU and Big Star both doing "Gimme Danger", can not see Big Star doing "Sister Ray" or Stooges doing "Femme Fatale" tho...

Big Star doing "Gimme Danger"

lol yeah Chilton would've camped this up big time

yeah that would've been pretty awesome

T/S: Velvets "What Goes On" vs. CCR "Proud Mary"