how harshly do you judge people when it comes to their tastes/opinions about music

are you one of those nice people who says: oh, well, different strokes for different folks, i suppose! or do you write people off completely if they say something that you disagree with/think is stupid. i'm used to people saying that they hate rap and metal and i mostly let it go. although i do realize that i probably wouldn't be GREAT friends with anyone who just out and out hated a ton of stuff that i love. especially if they were big jerks about it. i met a friend of a friend last summer and i hate to admit it, but i did kinda dismiss him after he said that he NEVER listened to new music or checked any of it out except for...Beck. i knew right then that we lived on different planets. i'm still nice to him and everything. but to dismiss all modern music except for...Beck? i couldn't really take him seriously after that! and he's a musician too! anyway, just wondering. most of the time i just ask people what they like and then i talk about that with them and don't even bring up my own deviant interests. i know how to get along.

depends how jerky they are about it. someone who has terrible taste but isn't all self-righteous about it, these people don't bother me a bit. I don't trust their taste, but so what...? When it comes to musicians it's a little different - the drummer we played with who professed to "hate the Beatles" (but loved U2's rhythm section?!), I basically wrote him off after that.

IRL i am pretty chill and willing to talk to people about music based on whatever little common ground we might have, and not argue about all the things we disagree about unless they force the issue or it seems like it could be a fun conversation. i mean, it's a given that most people don't think about music as much as me or a lot of people here, and it'd be silly for me to lecture others on it just like i don't like being lectured about topics/artforms i don't give much thought.

w/ people here or friends that I talk to about music, though, obviously there's more of a baseline of shared interest and i'm more willing to pick fights and take stands on shit.

Like politics, my musical tastes so rarely coincide with the people I see every day that I take my isolation for granted.

So very OTM

yeah that too. I agree with some dude tho - with IRL people it's just easier/more fun/more interesting to find some common ground and talk about that. unless someone's being real douche-y about how rap "isn't music" or whatever, then I might be inclined to argue the point.

i can get pretty irritated by my friend's tastes but mine are so much more obnoxious that i have no choice but to let it slide

i've given up on selling a lot of rap i like to my friends. pretty much none of them are willing to accept any non-outkast southern us rap because it's "not about anything meaningful" or something

Realized in my last relationship that I don't really care if my tastes overlap with someone's or not, that what matters is more if they can talk about their tastes intelligently. (My ex slagging bands for not being "innovative" as if that was the sole criteria of musical merit led to a lot of dead end conversations there.)

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Alfred.

But going back to Shakey's post about hating the Beatles: drummers who think "Ringo sucks" lose a lot of respect instantly from me. Sadly this is about 99% of all drummers I've ever played music with in a band situation, so these days I just stay home.

most of the time i'd rather talk about something else. i think people including myself have a lot of emotions and self-regard mixed in with their taste, so when the topic comes up it can be a little hard to navigate without fronting somehow. if it just comes up in a conversation naturally and it's contextualized that way than it's more fun imo. rather than "ok, the next topic is bands we like or shows we've been to."

But going back to Shakey's post about hating the Beatles: drummers who think "Ringo sucks" lose a lot of respect instantly from me.

what was weird was it wasn't just Ringo, he really hated the whole concept of the Beatles, their place in music culture, etc. My reaction was just, y'know, dude this is not a battle you are going to win, hating everything having to do with the Beatles means you gotta rule out huge swathes of pop music as acceptable.

In high school I used to tell people they were stupid if they liked music I hated.

Now, I only think it.

Maturity is awesome!

lol

i don't hate the beatles, but as a musician it can occasionally be awkward to not be very familiar with the beatles catalog (or rather, i'm only tangentially familiar with it...never had a period where i sat down and listened to the records, but so many of the songs are unavoidable)

I try to be nice really, used to be a total jerk in my teens but now I feel that hating other people's tastes is juvenile and silly. I do catch myself thinking "oh god" at some people's music tastes but I don't really express that. I don't talk much about my own taste, I always feel like a twat/snob if I have to try and explain what I like. Or that people will hear one or two bands and put my taste in a box as a result!

I try to be nice really, used to be a total jerk in my teens but now I feel that hating other people's tastes is juvenile and silly. I do catch myself thinking "oh god" at some people's music tastes but I don't really express that.

I agree with this. Plus, I have the goofiest taste in music so it would be a bit hypocritical for me to judge.

i think it's lame to judge someone on what they like or dislike alone, but their reasoning reflects different elements of themselves as a whole, and if those elements are hard for you to take then yr gonna think about it and maybe judge but hopefully just make distinctions.

i never judge IRL based on what people like - if they're not already a friend of mine/haven't gained my liking via some other route and express dislike for my fav music in dickish terms (r&b and rap...you can guess what gets said), sure, i'll judge them on that.

i'll poke (hopefully) gentle fun at some of my friends' musical taste. like say, the couple who bought barenaked ladies tickets recently. how can you ignore that? but a pretty big majority of the people I'm friends with in my current town do not have great musical taste. whattayagonnado?

I like talking to people who are way into areas of music that I'm not - I figure I'll learn something and maybe pick up a tip or two. And, in general, I find that I get along better with people who are actively into music than those who are basically a passive audience. But unless people actively engage me about the music I like, I tend to listen more than spout off.

i actually prefer it when someone i know disagrees with me on the relative merits of this or that artist/style/genre/whatever. i've found that such differences of opinion can lead to stimulating conversation/self-examination of one's personal "taste" (or what have you) on occasion. it can also be dull as hell, of course. you take your chances.

It seems to be frowned upon to tease people about their tastes lately. I can't even poke fun at relatives for loving American Idol? Please. At least I do so while fully admitting to watching Glee with my woman (though I'd rather chew my arm off than see the live tour). Now people who simply don't like music, or stopped listening to anything new, they are enemies for life.

not very harshly, in answer to the thread question

yeah, i like that one of my friends is a pretty big metheny disciple -- it's fun to see where your tastes intersect, what you agree with/disagree with. people who are passionate about the music they like are good, regardless of whether they share my taste.

IRL I'm kind of excited to meet anyone who actually listens to music, regardless of taste.

yeah, exactly

btw i just assume IRL people don't want to talk in detail about music (with the exception of musician nerd friends). there is a certain kind of awkwardness that occurs when i want to spare someone from music nerd talk, but they ask me about it b/c they know i play in bands or whatever.

What I like is when people who've only seen me write/talk about listening to certain types of music assume that's all I listen to, and then come at me about something I've written or said with "How can you criticize Gucci Mane, you don't even listen to hip-hop!" or some similar bullshit. That's some kinda fun.

yeah, just over the weekend, i had kind of an awkward conversation with someone who brought up fleet foxes as his new fave band, but i think he did it because he knew I played in bands. i don't hate the fleet foxes i've heard, but i don't really like it either. but i just kind of nodded and said oh yeah they're cool. xpost

see, I would tell that person "only bedwetting fakers like Fleet Foxes; go put on your Palestinian scarf and drink some bubble tea" if I was 19

now that I'm 37, I just say "I don't like them" while holding that response back as firmly as I possibly can unless I'm with friends who enjoy my unnecessary ranting about trivial shit

i don't judge people for what music they like/dislike, but i do judge people for saying dumb uninformed shit. that goes for everything, not just music.

earnestly judging one's actual friends based on music taste/opinions is just lousy. imo. proverbial ball-busting is just fine, of course.

hahaha see this is not even a question for me because if i judged peeps harshly for the music they listen to i would be unemployed so

oh come on, I saw you in action in high school

you have a little hate demon in your heart too, I know it (in fact, I've seen it blog for you)

every morning i get up, stand and stare at myself in the mirror and repeat "today someone is going to talk to you for an hour about hawthorne heights so maybe just start practicing that smile now."

I have an off-beat friend who only likes Dave Matthews Band and refuses to listen to music in his car. It's weird but he's just more of a sports guy - I won't judge him on music or intentionally avoid making friendships with people who don't care about music

The most I judge people on music is when I look at an online dating profile and see a huge list of bands, none of which I like very much, I'll go look at a different profile.

I imagine it would be harder for me to become good friends with a huge metal or rap fan because in the past it just so happened that those people had personalities that seemed like polar opposites of my personality. I've never been good friends with a huge metal or rap fan.

I judge people by how many Captain Beefheart records they have. Less than 10, I don't want to know them. Under 2, I'll spit in their face.

I've never been good friends with a huge metal or rap fan.

aw I have known some super-sweetheart metal fans in my day, yr missing out

I'm not purposely avoiding them. I've just never met a metal dude and became good friends

Another question: "How warmly do you regard people for loving a maligned album in an artist's oeuvre?"

The Dylan fan who loves Empire Burlesque, the Cohen fan who defends Death of a Ladies Man – I'm more likely to go HI ALFRED SOTO WAT UP

If I ever meet a Cure fan who's all "Wild Mood Swings was totally their creative peak" I will likely get arrested for assault

^^^word

xp

haw!

I used to be pretty bad as a teenager, although I wasn't intending to be as bad as I probably was, because I was really only judging their music taste, not them as a person, but some of my friends did call me out on it - most of my IRL friends are just not that into music although I have crossover tastes with most of them. I gradually just grew out of being scornful of other people's music I guess.

I still love it when I occasionally meet someone who's really into something I like - recently when I was in the states I met one of my wife's old friends for the first time and we discovered we were both really into old school punk and hardcore - he's a few years older than me so had been to all these shows at Fenders Ballroom seeing bands like Dead Kennedys and Conflict that I'd only seen on Youtube.

I "judge" ILM posters a lot harsher and more consistently than IRL friends and folks, who pretty much have a free pass.

I judge people by how many Captain Beefheart records they have. Less than 10, I don't want to know them. Under 2, I'll spit in their face.

If you own fewer than 20 Sun Ra albums I'll pin you down and repeatedly punch you in the face for hours.

I don't actually own any, I just feel violent.

if they're not an active fan of Scouting For Girls then tbh live and let live

doubtless I have better conversations with open-minded people, but a taste is a taste and musical common ground is almost always present

The most I judge people on music is when I look at an online dating profile and see a huge list of bands, none of which I like very much, I'll go look at a different profile.

Not that I don't agree with the principle, but if I had followed that line I wouldn't be married to the awesome Mrs. McBB. I had to give up the fantasy of marrying a fellow music fan pretty quickly after I hit 30.

hahaha see this is not even a question for me because if i judged peeps harshly for the music they listen to i would be unemployed so

yeah, i'd be flat broke if i did this!

man i should work on my slap n' pop chops and come down and serenade jjusten with some tasty licks for a couple hours

"hey m@tt, how are you?"

"good, good to see you jj!"

*theme from night court*

hahahahahahahaha

I would pay lots of money to say that

er.. SEE that

bad move for my current employment

boss: (submits credit card bill for reimbursement)
me: you expect reimbursement for the purchase of "x? that's really boring, i refuse to reimburse you for purchases of boring music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjiWblC_iG8

needs autoplay imo

i don't judge them harshly, just pity them

wait which thread is this?

i prob judge ppl more harshly if they hold retarded opinions passionately than if they just have really m.o.r. taste, but one thing that i find increasingly appalling and will eventually not be able to shut up about is people who listen to no new music at all, or only new music that sounds like the classics.

the Cohen fan who defends Death of a Ladies Man – I'm more likely to go HI ALFRED SOTO WAT UP

holla

I guess my first reaction to Scott's post would be 'Beck is still releasing music?!' and would ask him/her anything about it. Not that I'd check it out, but it would interest me to hear about it.

A small surprise is my default reaction whenever I listen to people talking about music, that a name will get mentioned that I'll know but have completely forgotten the existence of until the very moment of mention.

i've known one or two people in the past who listen primarily to bands that i am fairly certain are objectively bad (what does this mean? i don't know). then, i wasn't so concerned with it; now, i know that if i ever encountered someone like this, i would hold them in very little respect.

it's because music is important to me! if you are listening to crap and thinking it's good, what can i do but have no respect for you? good music is so easy to come by, even if you only listen to pop hits, you know?

this goes for people who listen to tripe and know nothing else, and people who know something else but think their tripe is good. in both cases, i'm inclined to think you're a moron.

wow. in the past like, year, i think, i've become quite the snob. even people whose tastes i have no problem with, but who LISTEN to music in what i perceive to be the wrong way, i take off a couple Respect Points. not listen with their ears, but people who, for instance, download a whole discography and then just listen to it all on shuffle. THAT IS SO LAME.

the only case in which i will become upset is when someone starts slagging off the beatles. i've met a couple people. it pisses me off because NEVER has anyone been able to back up this position. you know why, of course. it's because there IS no backing up this position.

slightly off-topic: recently, i've met a couple people (they've all been older) who refuse to listen to music from entire eras. basically, if it isn't jazz or classical (which goes on in the background), or contemporary "popular" music (which is scorned), they refuse to listen precisely for the reason that it's old; they've already heard it; it isn't fresh; it's out-dated and redundant.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. this shit gets my goat for real. it PISSES me off.

that's right. i judge harshly.

that's right. i judge harshly.

― marc iv, Monday, June 28, 2010 9:18 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

woah. let me sit down for a minute and let this sink in.

http://thepilver.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/judge-dredd.jpg

I judge ppl's taste in music based on the number of copies of St. Anger in their possession

but people who, for instance, download a whole discography and then just listen to it all on shuffle. THAT IS SO LAME.

Why is this lame? I can see the benefits of this approach - sometimes listening to an unfamiliar artists catalog in chronological order can prevent you from appreciating later material. If you jumble it all up, maybe you'll see the consistencies as opposed to the ups and downs.

i judge people's taste in music by licking every piece of physical media in their collection

but people who, for instance, download a whole discography and then just listen to it all on shuffle. THAT IS SO LAME.

awhile ago I basically did this with some country guys because come the fuck on have you ever looked at Merle Haggard's or Dolly Parton or George Jones' discography? INSANE

the only case in which i will become upset is when someone starts slagging off the beatles. i've met a couple people. it pisses me off because NEVER has anyone been able to back up this position. you know why, of course. it's because there IS no backing up this position.

i can and have backed up this position many times

xpost that's what greatest hits are for

eh hating the beatles is some entry-level contrarianism imo

i felt for a long time that there was no real point in liking them actively, but that's a little different

i don't understand how you can not find the beatles at the very least pleasurable. it's like hating pizza.

this thread is making me judge people pretty harshly

xp - i know the beatles are highly influential and significant, but comparing them to pizza is exaggerating their omnipresence

there is literally no more omnipresent music than the beatles except, maybe like, Jingle Bells and Happy Birthday and shit

I can understand not actively liking the Beatles or just never having paid too much attention or whatever but people who are like "no, they SUCK" = yeah grade-school level contrarianism

there is literally no more omnipresent music than the beatles except

Michael Jackson maybe

bands that i am fairly certain are objectively bad (what does this mean? i don't know)

Let us know when you do, it should be funny

I can go in the redneckiest bar in Florida or the hippest coffee shop in Williamsburg and hear the damn Beatles

music and types of food aren't omnipresent in the same way. I think it's been at least five months since i've heard the beatles, and I haven't chosen to listen to them since the mid-90s. I agree that it's anomalous for someone not to find their music pleasurable, but it's not like one gets snippets of beatles songs placed on one's door like flyers for pizza places.

"that's right. i judge harshly."

this is serious shit. What if I told you that I dislike Rush's discography from 82-89? I'm a little nervous about your response.

ok, jeez, the beatles are not like pizza

I think sometimes people end up aggressively disliking a band if they're told they have to like them. I don't agree with that way of thinking, much, but I don't think it's the same as contrarianism.

I'm generally pretty mellow & it's-cool-I-can-see-your-point, except when it comes to metal, with respect to which u r all posing and should be ashamed, no matter who you are

^^^hugs

see, I would tell that person "only bedwetting fakers like Fleet Foxes; go put on your Palestinian scarf and drink some bubble tea" if I was 19

Thank you Dan for the water I just nearly spit out onto my keyboard.

but it's not like one gets snippets of beatles songs placed on one's door like flyers for pizza places.

― sarahel, Monday, June 28, 2010 5:48 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I have no idea where you live that you don't just hear the beatles everywhere. I mean restaurants, the grocery store, taxicabs, the bodega, the pharmacy. Beatles.

I judge people by how many Captain Beefheart records they have. Less than 10, I don't want to know them.

I think I actually currently stand at 8-9 Beefheart CDs... oops?

i don't like either lennon or mccartney's voices. or their lyrics. and the tunes are annoying-catchy rather than pleasurable-catchy.

^^^not just in America either, like cab drivers in Peshawar have Beatles tapes

xp

tbh I live in England and somehow manage to not hear the Beatles all that often.

Like politics, my musical tastes so rarely coincide with the people I see every day that I take my isolation for granted.

― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, June 28, 2010 6:51 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

otm

tbh I live in England and somehow manage to not hear the Beatles all that often.

― a fucking stove just fell on my foot. (Colonel Poo), Monday, June 28, 2010 11:01 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

seriously tho. you basically never do except maybe during a big marketing push.

why listen to the beatles when you have oasis

I have no idea where you live that you don't just hear the beatles everywhere. I mean restaurants, the grocery store, taxicabs, the bodega, the pharmacy. Beatles.

American Idol Beatles Week!

I live my life by one simple rule: if you don't like Prince, fuck off and die.

i rarely hear music anywhere. to be honest. unless i'm playing it.

i mean, like, out in public. the occasional car going by playing something loud, but that's about it.

Like politics, my musical tastes so rarely coincide with the people I see every day that I take my isolation for granted.

See, this is why it pays to be able to discuss Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga and Beyonce and so forth. I mean 80% of the stuff I play alone I wouldn't expect anyone IRL to have even heard of (why yes I am a huge Flying Saucer Attack fan, thanks for asking!) but I'd assume most ILM posters have at least a *bit* of pop music they enjoy and can discuss w/r/t IRL friends and folks.

i really need to put speakers outside my store.

i mean, like, out in public. the occasional car going by playing something loud, but that's about it.

how is this possible? do you have everything delivered to your home? you never go shopping?

beatles in the morning, beatles in the evening, beatles at suppertime. when beatles are on a bagel, you can have beatles anytime

scott otm, "omnipresent" doesn't exist in these days of headphones &c - 99% of the time when i hear music, it's music of my choice.

eh hating the beatles is some entry-level contrarianism imo

― goole, Monday, June 28, 2010 9:41 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't understand how you can not find the beatles at the very least pleasurable. it's like hating pizza.

― Elektro Guzzi Mane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, June 28, 2010 9:42 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark

o_0

i feel rilly lucky reading this thread! i know lots of people who like stuff that i like. in real life. i mean, it takes like 20 of them for me to be able to talk about everything that i like, but i've got like 20 of them. you know, one for jazz talk, one for psych talk, etc. thank god for my italodisco friend, thought i'd be alone there.

"you never go shopping?"

i do, but i guess not at the places playing lots of music. its pretty quiet around here. a lot of normal stores don't play any music at all. i can't remember what they play at the supermarket i shop at. but, no, i just don't hear music everywhere unless it is people playing live music on the street or in the park or at a bar or something.

i judge people i don't know very harshly on their shit taste, but am pretty forgiving, if often somewhat disappointed, in my friends' shit tastes. e.g. a few of them like Kings of Leon, some of them who like Kings of Leon don't even listen to any other commercial rock music, its like Kings of Leon are just exceptionally brilliant to their ears that they're beyond category for them or something. i don't give them a hard time about it though, as long as they don't play that shit when i'm around.

i have friends who share most of my musical tastes, although a few things, e.g. my love for mexican rancheras, albert ayler, & beethoven, i'm pretty much alone with.

I used to be a dick about this TBH - not so much harshly judging as over-reacting to others' musical tastes and asserting my own w/o realizing it.

now I strive for zen-like acceptance/let those other schools of thought flower, I say. but I did recently tell my wife that I would do anything - including buying her the entire Beatles catalogue on CD - so long as I never have to near the fucking Across The Universe soundtrack again

"ok, jeez, the beatles are not like pizza"

^^^new board description?

re: the beatles, i actually am not great at recognizing beatles songs as beatles songs when they're playing in public places. lol immigrant parents, but i wasn't raised on the beatles and i think i've accumulated a lot of embarrassment about how i don't know their music very well that prevents me from getting to know the music better.

jesus, i just went to a wedding and the guitarist was playing beatles songs on classical guitar the whole time. i think if you don't hear the beatles everywhere, you're probably just not recognizing the songs or not paying attention tbh.

i know what the beatles sound like but unless there's an oldies station on i'm unlikely to hear them in my everyday life.

i was in a restaurant yesterday and heard a beatles song. and in a coffee shop a few days before and heard a beatles song

i don't live in liverpool, btw

you're probably just not recognizing the songs or not paying attention tbh

either of these are probably true...? like, i'd only recognise, like, beatles choruses. and when i'm in restaurants or pubs, unless the music's turned up stupidly loud, 90% of the time i'm not paying attention to it.

I don't judge people by the music they hear. I'd rather judge them by the way they talk about the music they hear.

back when i worked in a 2nd hand rec shop, i finally learned to relax abt other ppl's shitty purchases after a coworker pointed out to me it wasn't MY money

its funny, altho' its gd to get facts/figures + positive reinforcement from ppl who share yr tastes, i find actual discussion of the nitty-gritty too often stalls at 'yeah that's an amazing rec' etc. (my fault, i'm sure) - whereas, w/ someone who i disagree w/ or depart from, there's more chance of getting to the reasons why you might like/dislike something

lex, maybe you'd like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i0aaGT-2ys

oooh a beatles debate!

I don't judge people by the music they hear. I'd rather judge them by the way they talk about the music they hear.

― Moka, Monday, 28 June 2010 23:29 (1 minute ago)

this is a good point

you're probably just not recognizing the songs or not paying attention tbh

and i'm not trying to say this in a snarky or mean way. I'm actually probably hyper aware of the music played in public. Which is why i get super pissed at people who are like "I'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD LADY GAGA BECAUSE I DON'T EVEN OWN A TV" because it's like, chances are you've heard her a billion times and just never paid attention.

i mean, like, out in public. the occasional car going by playing something loud, but that's about it.

This seems totally understandable to me! Like, I wake up, go to work, come back from work, be at home? Sometimes on the weekends I go to the supermarket or the houses of friends! None of these places play music afaict?

I can't remember the last time I heard a Beatles song. I used to have to hear them a lot when I worked in an auto parts store that had the oldies radio station playing all day. But in the decade-plus since then, I haven't heard them that often. And since I've been working from my couch the last 15 months or so, I haven't heard them at all, I don't think, unless one of their songs popped up on TV while I was flipping channels. I certainly don't have any of their albums here in my home.

Which is why i get super pissed at people who are like "I'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD LADY GAGA BECAUSE I DON'T EVEN OWN A TV" because it's like, chances are you've heard her a billion times and just never paid attention.

i have wildly differing reactions to that sort of statement - if it's someone unconnected to music IRL then why should they, or you, even care?

on ILX i get super-annoyed by it, though, because the subtext is "i pretty much ignore what everyone else on the board is talking about".

scott that YT isn't loading for me

I'm cool with anyone as long as they're not that strident in their tastes and I'll actively take an interest, and excitedly talk about, whatever part, no matter how insignificant, of what they like I happen to like.

"scott that YT isn't loading for me"

eh, you'll live. just a dance remix of a beatles song. of which there are a million.

think they mean they've never been consciously aware that a particular song is by lady gaga. it'd be pretty weird if people just heard some new-to-them song in the background somewhere and went "oh this has to be Lady Gaga, cool, now I can talk to Whiney G about it".

It's pretty easy to hear chart pop music a billion times and never know what or who the individual tracks are, once you stop listening to the radio or actively seeking stuff out. I mean my supermarket plays music but there are no announcements - sometimes I piece together a title with something I've read on ILM, but if I stopped even my token gestures at occasionally reading an ILM pop thread, that would end

(xp yeah, that)

There's a specific kind of dude who knows everything about like radiohead or muse and thinks that makes them masters on the subject of human artistic achievement. I hate those guys. Otherwise, I don't really worry about a person's taste (though I get drunk and post bullshit on last.fm band pages), and I generally don't tell people about my music taste if I know they won't know what I'm talking about.

yeah I hear tons of current chartpop that I don't bother to identify, usually because it sounds like shit lol

xp

There's a specific kind of dude who knows everything about like radiohead or muse and thinks that makes them masters on the subject of human artistic achievement.

these dudes are a vital part of the musical economy

decent thread derailed by innocuous whiney comment taken literally, good job all

Timely question...Someone at work today - newly married at 52 - told us today that she was pissed off at her husband because he's been sneaking 'his' music into the car and listening to it after they'd jointly agreed 'their music' tastes and bought a lot of CDs. Apparently his old music is some old CDs of 70s music that she'd hidden away at the back of a bookcase hoping he'd forget about them.

Couples!

so rerail it, numbnutz

jesus, i just went to a wedding and the guitarist was playing beatles songs on classical guitar the whole time. i think if you don't hear the beatles everywhere, you're probably just not recognizing the songs or not paying attention tbh.

whiney, you are a v. social dude and are always going out to stuff where you might hear stuff, enjoy the company of others and/or being out amidst the ebb & flow, etc. other people are different. I for example only went to the doctor & back today, private office, no music there, CD on the stereo on the drive there, classical radio on the drive back, Hacavitz & Ben Frost & Strong Arm Steady on the turntable when I get home. I would guess that unless somebody autoloads a Beatles youtube onto this thread, I will not hear the Beatles at all this year.

This has been your irascible underrated aerosmith reminder that generalizing from the specific is usu. a nonstarter, thx

whiney lives in a city too, right? i heard a lot more random music living in a city.

only cool and popular people hear the beatles

When I hear random street music, it's either hip-hop or it's in Spanish (or both).

I think the going line is if you don't live in New York your opinion is kinda quaint

Whiney and friends you're being obnoxiously square. You're in a music board, you don't need to convince us about the ubiquity of The Beatles or Lady Gaga but out there in the real world not every cares about them as much as you'd like to think. It is possible for people to not give a shit about the music playing in the background... I'm not saying they wont recognize them, but they might not care enough to connect the dots. Music is disposable.

I didn't always live here, you know!

word, most places are pretty quaint, why here in minneapolis i might only hear a a passing jug band or the faint strains of a cole porter song

There's a specific kind of dude who knows everything about like radiohead or muse and thinks that makes them masters on the subject of human artistic achievement.

these people intrigue me. i feel like i used to know some, but don't anymore

like, all the people who really do love music, but at some point stop seeking more. what are they all about?

I don't really worry about a person's taste (though I get drunk and post bullshit on last.fm band pages ilx)

New board description?

I think the going line is if you don't live in New York your opinion is kinda quaint

Great, let's revive the suburbs thread.

yeah cool enuf Whiney but I spend half my life out on the road in big cities & shit & the one time I heard the Beatles this year was when I decided I wanted to hear Cassandra Wilson singing "til there was you" which is an all-time jam I will rep for all day, but ppl who're all like "recognize the Beatles or pose forever" are 1000x more tiresome than challops "I hate the Beatles" ppl imo

np: cassandra wilson, "til there was you" fyi

Marshall was a legal luminary, and while on the Court was on the right side of a lot of battles I care about, but a lot of what I read suggests he was at best an okay justice who got increasingly bored and ill.

i pretty much ignore what everyone else on the board is talking about

Exactly.

like, all the people who really do love music, but at some point stop seeking more. what are they all about?
― call all destroyer, Monday, June 28, 2010 10:55 PM (1 minute ago)

good thread topic, I think I'll make it

i don't like the beatles, nor do i find pleasure in hearing their music

like, all the people who really do love music, but at some point stop seeking more. what are they all about?

In my experience, these people are called "parents".

aerosmith, I used to tour too and I can tell you that they definitely play Beatles in rock clubs. Especially ones that have jukeboxes.

xp go to the other thread but it's far from just parents imo

like, all the people who really do love music, but at some point stop seeking more. what are they all about?

you were thinking the same thing as me when you said "parents"

In my experience, these people are called "parents".

hey I'm still very keen on seeking out new music! I just have a) much less money to spend on it and b) less time to go to shows

I'm in the same boat, I haven't given up yet, I'm just saying we are a significant minority. Changes come along real soon make us women and men, y'know.

I hear a lot less Beatles now I live in a city - smalltown England open mics and pub CD collections are all 60s and early 70s (bit of cheery 80s nostalgia for the less old-man pubs), could not go to the local open mic w/o hearing Come Together - the Beatles have some good tracks but they also have some pretty bad ones (man do I hate Come Together) and really it is nearly half a century later now, y'know?

i.e. when the Beatles put out their first single it was closer to the First World War than to now, can we please get over talking like they were the since-unscalable pinnacle of recorded music yet? They were a good band, a long time ago, and maybe there have been some other good bands since, and may be some others again, who could be allowed to play music without being compared to them

Anyway Beatles debate no doubt done to death on 6000 other threads, so, thread title. I used to be a jerk abt this, though a cowardly jerk who would still be all "oh, you like Counting Crows, I uh guess they're pretty OK huh" or "oh I don't know too much about them", but now I'm getting older I'm kind of thinking that to the most of the population who are not professional musicians or music critics, choosing music as the one thing I'm really into thinking about was maybe a bit of a waste

I have totally loved digging out weird and obscure things and the thrill of discovery, sure. But most of my friends do not give a damn about music beyond whoever they thought was the best band ever aged 12 and still listen to in the car. I am not going to have a real life conversation about pigfuck or italo. The hundreds of mostly pretty nondescript CDs I bought for $4 on labels I'd vaguely heard of will impress nobody. The 90s bands I loved are a meaningless irrelevance to anyone who wasn't there at the time. Tales of discovery, amazement, forgetting the next day are ten a penny for anyone with an internet connection now, so do I think mine are compelling to anyone else?

Am I happier with music than those friends who think music pretty much stopped after GnR? Probably not, really. Have I spent a whole lot of time and money that maybe I could have filled with doing something more conducive to actually talking to people, real people my own age? Uhh, yeah. I lose. So, if I meet someone new and they've done that instead, well, good on them. Now they'd better do the talking, because I've got nothing except some lame references to a culture they don't care about.

Am I happier with music than those friends who think music pretty much stopped after GnR? Probably not, really. Have I spent a whole lot of time and money that maybe I could have filled with doing something more conducive to actually talking to people, real people my own age? Uhh, yeah. I lose. So, if I meet someone new and they've done that instead, well, good on them. Now they'd better do the talking, because I've got nothing except some lame references to a culture they don't care about.

You are being way too hard on yourself. I bet you ARE happier with your musical choices and you spent your time doing something YOU really enjoyed. Own your love of music, damnnit!

Marshall was a legal luminary, and while on the Court was on the right side of a lot of battles I care about, but a lot of what I read suggests he was at best an okay justice who got increasingly bored and ill.

― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, June 28, 2010 3:57 PM (6 minutes ago)

but what did Marshall think about the Beatles?

He was a Ringo guy.

And to think I second-guessed myself when I opted for the cash instead of the Beatles box when I recently traded in a huge bag of CDs.

To go back to the original thread topic:

It's been said or hinted at several times upthread, but basically I won't judge people for what they're into but might judge them for their justifications (in particular of what they don't like and why others shouldn't like it). But in this regard it's not too different from judging people for backing up their political preferences with nonsensical arguments or threadbare received wisdom - it's the intellectual laziness at work rather than the actual taste (or even political preference) which bugs me.

But these days most people I meet/know IRL are well aware that I'm a music critic and will be oddly deferential about music taste. Which I find strange and awkward given I never would have accorded that same respect to an equiv. of me previously, and don't feel I warrant it now.

In terms of taste though, there's only one person I know who has like even a 60% overlap with my taste, so everyone else it's like "okay I'll talk on your terms and try to overlook what i consider to be the blind spots and inconsistencies and etc." - there are the friends into kylie and the friends into techno and dubstep and the friends into hip hop and etc and with each of them I have the conversation I can have.

marshall's ruling on Sutcliffe v. Voorman was activist judging at its worst IMO

The only one of my tastes that genuinely induces raised eyebrows -- even among some critic buddies! -- is my love for pop. The subtext seems to be, "You're too old to listen to this" or "You can't possibly mean" that I listen to Miley Cyrus with genuine interest (they think I'm winking or something).

aerosmith, I used to tour too and I can tell you that they definitely play Beatles in rock clubs. Especially ones that have jukeboxes.

the two times I am in the club, over the past several years: 1) soundcheck 2) during the show. you're just wrong about thinking "everybody is hearing the beatles whether they admit it or not."

I gotta say though the music I hear during soundcheck & during the show is completely awesome, way better than the Beatles imo

even that of the opening bands, or are you one of those prima donnas that don't watch & listen to the bands that open for you?

well that was kind of bitchy

sorry, i was just joking ...

oh I lolled, it just came across really really mean

The only one of my tastes that genuinely induces raised eyebrows -- even among some critic buddies! -- is my love for pop. The subtext seems to be, "You're too old to listen to this" or "You can't possibly mean" that I listen to Miley Cyrus with genuine interest (they think I'm winking or something).

all pop, or just teen-pop? beyonce and justin timberlake and rhianna are pop, but i consider them in a different category than, say, miley cyrus and justin bieber.

I don't think most other people do, particularly now; Bieber and Miley graduated from teenpopdom when they became omnipresent

"omnipresent" doesn't equal validation tho--i don't see any way i could throw "baby" on my ipod and legitimize it to my peers.

omnipresent

Nonsense. If you don't listen to pop radio or watch much TV, they hardly register.

yeah, i had one of those post-"submit post" cringes about it ... but seriously, i don't hear the beatles at bars or clubs, or playing on car stereos of passing cars ... the last time I heard the Beatles was at the Whole Foods 5 months ago when I did grocery shopping at a time that wasn't my normal time. I usually do my grocery shopping during 70s rock or 80s new wave programming.

generally i've often found it illuminating hearing stuff thru regular peoples ears so i always try my damnedest never to disturb them with bug-eyed internet mysteries of soapboxin tbh

seems a bit pervy now i think about it

I actually kind of misstated my post; the better argument is that all of that stuff is "pop music", which is primarily for:

- teens
- women at bars/the gym

Please note that "better argument" should not imply that this is how I view pop music; this is how other people I know react to pop music.

Add:

- pedos

np: cassandra wilson, "til there was you" fyi

― get your bucket of free wings (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Monday, June 28, 2010 5:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

can't go anywhere w/o hearing 'the music man'. clubs, coffee shops, taxis...

ha Alfred yes, that too

can't go anywhere w/o hearing 'the music man'. clubs, coffee shops, taxis...

what a quaint, provincial place you must live, in my city with a capital "c," it's all about "Sunday in the Park with George" - Mandy Patinkin FTW!

I know a few shall we say prominently employed rockcrits for major online music magazines who expressed total bafflement that an Old Guy like Frank Kogan could show so much interest in Ashlee Simpson and Disney pop without lapsing into prurience.

Picking out a couple of parts here:

Alfred: Like politics, my musical tastes so rarely coincide with the people I see every day that I take my isolation for granted.

ilxor: See, this is why it pays to be able to discuss Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga and Beyonce and so forth.

I agreed with Alfred's post and think that ilxor was leaping a bit to a conclusion -- as I see it, it's less about willful isolation than about expectations of approach and interaction on a subject. Quoting Tim F now:

But these days most people I meet/know IRL are well aware that I'm a music critic and will be oddly deferential about music taste. Which I find strange and awkward given I never would have accorded that same respect to an equiv. of me previously, and don't feel I warrant it now.

In terms of taste though, there's only one person I know who has like even a 60% overlap with my taste, so everyone else it's like "okay I'll talk on your terms and try to overlook what i consider to be the blind spots and inconsistencies and etc." - there are the friends into kylie and the friends into techno and dubstep and the friends into hip hop and etc and with each of them I have the conversation I can have.

I find this quite to the point in my own experience -- the idea of being 'deferential,' combined with the sense of resultant awkwardness, is something I've also gone through and still go through. It's only been fairly recently that I have, however unsteadily, tried to be more comfortable with it, hopefully less in a sense of basking in flattery than in the sense of standing on my own ground among many peers I often feel a little overawed by. But then again, that's one specific audience as opposed to the larger one of the day to day world.

For instance: working as I do in a public service job with many people of many differing backgrounds, combined with a constant turnover of clientele and workers (an academic institution, after all), there's a certain knowledgeable flexibility that comes into play. I don't believe (I hope) I have ever acted as some sort of dictatorial musical arbiter in terms of casual conversation at my job, the necessary social glue. What is the point? It adds nothing to the day to day. I listen to any number of things in my office spot that coworkers have at times commented on with surprise and sometimes outright confusion -- I think Ryoji Ikeda baffled one of them until the day he left -- but I don't go around starting conversations on that. I'm content on my own there.

On the flip, though, if I am approached about music specifically -- or if someone is wearing a shirt featuring a band I know or humming a song I recognize and enjoy -- then that's a different story, and as Tim (and ilxor) rightly note these points of commonality can be separate launching points. If anything I do enjoy the slight surprise that can result sometimes. One library coworker who is a complete metal freak assumed I didn't like it at all but somehow Pantera came up in conversation and the rest was history. Another played in DC hardcore bands in the early eighties and we swap stories about 80s punk and hardcore all the time. A student worker just recently started broadcasting on KUCI and another coworker and I were suggesting some bands she might like such as Caifanes and Aterciopelados, which led to us talking about Vicente Fernandez.

So one can be comfortably isolated and yet at the same time actively engaged. It's not an either/or proposition.

Oh, that's true, and in my media job it's inevitable that cross-pollination happens. Having reached the age when I'm conscious of being, well, my age, I often approach the college radio station guys I ostensibly oversee with trepidation; but a lot of them are at least superficially aware that I write about music. Also: we bump into each other at concerts.

This afternoon, for example, our sports director spent ten minutes begging me to reconsider the Drake album, with which he's infatuated despite acknowledging all of my demurrals (Drake's below-average voice, blah lyrics, uninspired flow). For the first seven minutes I got frustrated and thought, "Why the hell does he care so much about whether I like it?" Then it hit me: he respects my opinion, is moderately aware of my background, and is thus genuinely interested in what I have to say. Very flattering, naturally, but it worked both ways: I'm giving Drake another shot thanks to him.

generally i've often found it illuminating hearing stuff thru regular peoples ears so i always try my damnedest never to disturb them with bug-eyed internet mysteries of soapboxin tbh

^^^ agree with this except I very rarely come across people who both want to talk about music and also notably come across as "regular peoples".

When I talk to my friends who like kylie i often feel like I'm hearing Popjustice quoted back to me, and when I talk to my friends who like techno/dubstep I often feel like I'm hearing FACT quoted back to me, and so on.

It can be hard to say of course what follows what - is it that the crit discourse actually reflects what that particular slice of "regular peoples" think, or is it the inverse? Where I'm probably overly harsh is that i get irritated by that perceived resemblance even if it's entirely innocent and coincidental.

I do remember enjoying talking about Taylor Swift with my friend Lauren in mid-2008, because this was before she got folded into broader pop-discourse in Australia (the first album had only just been belatedly and quietly released here at that point) and it felt like we were both having a pretty unmediated reaction and yet still agreeing on pretty much everything.

Whereas I think there's something deeply dispiriting about IRL talking about music which is also the focus of enormous broadsheet/online critical energy at that time - not merely say Radiohead or Animal Collective but also at times someone like Lady Gaga, and certainly the worst of all possible worlds which is the critically acclaimed black pop song ("Hey Ya", "Milkshake" etc.) - because it always demonstrates the extent to which people, probably including myself if i'm honest, simply receive and regurgitate third party pronouncements.

Very flattering, naturally, but it worked both ways: I'm giving Drake another shot thanks to him.

Don't understand all the Beatles hate in this thread when you all could be "giving Drake another shot" instead -- count yr blessings!

the two times I am in the club, over the past several years: 1) soundcheck 2) during the show. you're just wrong about thinking "everybody is hearing the beatles whether they admit it or not."

― get your bucket of free wings (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Monday, June 28, 2010 7:30 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

And so with all this touring, you're never in a restaurant or an airport or a taxicab?

Pretty sure next time I hear the Beatles, I'm gonna start a thread and document how many times I hear them in a calendar year since I don't live in the weird little j0hn bubble that only plays darkthrone in my MIND'S IPOD all day

i prob judge ppl more harshly if they hold retarded opinions passionately than if they just have really m.o.r. taste, but one thing that i find increasingly appalling and will eventually not be able to shut up about is people who listen to no new music at all, or only new music that sounds like the classics.

― call all destroyer, Monday, June 28, 2010 4:40 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark

I felt kind of bad the other day when my friends and I were hating on Phish fans in front of you and L. I was worried you thought we were all total assholes but then I thought about later and realized how hard Phish so I didn't care too much in the end.

ILX's view of America is that every person is a walking expert on Kevin Smith but never encounters the Beatles

ILX's view of America is that every person is a walking expert on Kevin Smith but never encounters the Beatles

― Elektro Guzzi Mane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, June 28, 2010 8:41 PM (1 hour ago)

WHAT???!!!

joke re: another clusterf thread

love that thread

btw i agree with you on this whiney

obviously some ppl dont hear the beatles that often but theyre on a lot

i bet the biggest motown cuts are more ubiquitous tho

but is the music of any one band or artist as ubiquitous as pizza?

oh for fucks sake

i hear fleetwood mac out + about more often than the beetles

sorry, goole, let's just agree that Whiney's analogy is idiotic and move on.

i don't often judge people for their taste in music, but when i do, i notice that it's usually based on the presumption of some commonality between that person and myself. like, i'd never think less of some 90 year old person for liking lawrence welk more than the carter family (or whatever), i'd just assume that we wanted different things out of music. same goes for people i think of as kids, those from far away lands, etc. but if a person is roughly my own age and seems both smart and culturally aware, i might be disappointed to learn that they thought rap wasn't "real music." but probably only slightly, if at all... i'm always psyched to find points of connection, but i understand that my tastes are mine, and that the time & energy i put into refining them makes me something of a geek.

but is the music of any one band or artist as ubiquitous as pizza?

― sarahel, Tuesday, June 29, 2010 5:04 AM (1 hour ago)

that dude who did "puttin on the ritz" maybe, cant remember his name at the moment. certainly better than pizza at any rate.

taco

sigh

i spoiled joek :(

odds are it was horribly formed tho so no harm no foul

what is musical beer? because it is not beatles or taco.

and would Vampire Weekend be the equivalent of a ronaldinho bottle opener?

you and your bottle opener

pretty sure "You and Your Racist Bottle Opener" was a TMBG song

tend to befriend people with similar musical tastes, but i don't harsh on anyone who isn't into what i am. except hair metal. had a lot of bad run ins with hair metal mongers

"harsh on" – I'll have to remember to use this one!

I felt kind of bad the other day when my friends and I were hating on Phish fans in front of you and L. I was worried you thought we were all total assholes but then I thought about later and realized how hard Phish so I didn't care too much in the end.

hahaahah you can always feel safe to hate on phish and/or their fans when we're around.

I know a few shall we say prominently employed rockcrits for major online music magazines who expressed total bafflement that an Old Guy like Frank Kogan could show so much interest in Ashlee Simpson and Disney pop without lapsing into prurience.

I don't think this is much of an eye-opener; isn't this why the rolling teenpop thread died?

Well, the rolling teenpop thread died not because of prominently-employed rockcrits, but because of stupid ILX bullies who didn't know when to let things go.

i don't often judge people for their taste in music, but when i do,

...I prefer to judge them for liking the XX.

there was dickishness and assholishness for sure but there was some genuine o_O at times IMO

in what sense?

like dudes were being total bullies and dicks but it wasn't JUST because adults were listening to teen pop, there were some particular kinda creepy posts i'd see and be like "okay...well...."

i don't often judge people for their taste in music, but when i do,

...I prefer to judge them for liking the XX.

― jaymc, Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:51 AM (6 minutes ago)

Are you Herman G. Neuname?

If music just isn't that important to someone (i.e. they don't make time for it in their daily life), is that considered an "opinion"?

i sort of admire people that just see music as whatever, they aren't fucked up like me

man I dunno, are there hobbies that you think it's not fucked up to have? Like, are people who are into tennis or knitting, say, more healthy, all other things equal, than a person into music? Because pretty much everyone is into something...I think?

self-loathing music dork posing isn't really needed imo

like, part of the reason music is a "weird" hobby "after a certain age" is because ppl get self-conscious as opposed to being like "yes i just bought 5 black metal records, what's it to you?"

ime "music" isn't judged a "weird" hobby "after a certain age"; classical, jazz, opera, are all considered "worthy" hobbies of an "educated", "classy" person. It's *pop* music that's considered silly.

btw all those " " are meant to indicate that I don't endorse those views.

dudes i'm not fucked up or self conscious at all...it's just...i dunno...like when some dudes seems to not really care about music and are like really into, i dunno...model trains or carpentry or anything its kinda refreshing to me cuz so many of my friend are into music and shit that's all

(should not have said fucked up probably cuz i don't really think it's fucked up)

basically sometimes i really wish i was "handy" like i could redo my basement or shit like that instead of play bass and dick around with drum machines

yeah i mean u seem like a well-adjusted person so it was weird coming from you!

i agree i would like to be handy but that ship has sailed for the most part

Are you Herman G. Neuname?

Nah, just a horribly formed "joke."

yeah fucked up was a bad term but sometimes i do wish that maybe i could have done a lot of other things or learned other skills if i hadn't spent so much time with music, so if people don't care about music, or just care about music a normal amount i don't look down on them at all, part of me admires like my brother in law who will do a bunch of landscaping and shit like that...he only listens to like pop country and like his ratt and cinderella cassettes from HS and shit, but who cares? he's a nice dude

Why "old people" would listen to "teenpop" : they have kids and grandkids and have to put up with that stuff (i.e. what's good about it). I guess no one has children anymore.

yeah i promised myself i wouldn't try to make my kid like "high quality" music like OH DEARIE HERE LISTEN TO THIS DAN ZANES BUTTHOLE DO YELLOW SUBMARINE HE USED TO BE THE DEL FUEGOS I'M SURE YOU TOTALLY GIVE A SHIT

that is like 90% 0f why I want kids

I judge people harshly who love the children's music of Dan Zanes.

My little family got dragged along to a Dan Zanes concert along with my cousins and their children as a way to entertain the kiddies, but it was godawful boring, and I'm someone who can be easily entertained by a music of kids music (especially The Biscuit Brothers!).

easily entertained by kid's music.

like my personal goal is to be the parent who gets the concerned phone call from the kindergarten teacher because my child is teaching "The Figurehead" and "Night Shift" to the rest of the class

zanes really strikes me as bad cuz he's so clearly marketed towards the parents and their self image and not the kids themselves...seems really fucked up to me...like i imagine kids will gravitate towards really spazzed out catchy stuff...

i just plan on listening to whatever as long as its not swearing basically, so the kid might hear u.s. maple or steely dan or black mountain or whatever, i just hate the idea of this "good for you" kids music

i figure the kid will want all kindsa stuff that will probably drive me up a wall but that's the deal

like skot's kids video at that noise show was super cute and no one had to pretend to like the del fuegos

we actually went and saw dan zanes on the island years ago. it was okay. i've always been kinda anti the idea that kids stuff has to appeal to adults. don't know when this started happening so much. "oh but WE love the pixar movies as much as junior does." i liked having my own stuff when i was a kid and my parents had exactly 0% interest in what i liked. i blame baby boomers. or someone. like, a kids show or movie will get a bad review in the paper because its too juvenile or silly! kids like crap. my kids love scoobie doo and so did i.

maybe it started with raffi? i dunno. i got no beef with raffi.

zanes really strikes me as bad cuz he's so clearly marketed towards the parents and their self image and not the kids themselves

Yes! This is exactly why I think my cousin pushed the rest of our extended family to go to that horrible concert. It was like the NPR interpretation of what kids might like from a concert as opposed to actual fun.

we went to see dan zanes more than ten years ago and our son (who loves music) paid like zero attention, the show really did seem directed at the parents.

gotta admit though, kinda glad rufus's doodlebops phase didn't last long. they gave me a headache.

http://costumzee.com/view/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/doodlebops.jpg

they were definitely NOT created for parents.

yo gabba gabba being an example of something created for hip stoner parents.

I noticed in the late 90s, when my kid started watching nickelodeon, that pop music is HEAVILY marketed toward the pre-teen - pre-ten y.o. actually - demographic. miles moved on from raffi and sesame street cassettes to Pink & Averil Lavigne pretty quickly.

i've always been kinda anti the idea that kids stuff has to appeal to adults. don't know when this started happening so much. "oh but WE love the pixar movies as much as junior does." i liked having my own stuff when i was a kid and my parents had exactly 0% interest in what i liked. i blame baby boomers. or someone. like, a kids show or movie will get a bad review in the paper because its too juvenile or silly! kids like crap. my kids love scoobie doo and so did i.

This is an essay's worth of OTMFM

wow i bet the doodblebops don't sound as mindblowing as that picture suggest
i have a lot to learn about parenting, i only have a month left!

Speaking of musical judgments and NPR, there is a program on KUT, the Austin public radio station, called Eklektikos hosted by John Aielli, which constantly gets under my skin whenever I happen to catch a bit of it. This Aielli guy plays about 75% dull, generic NPR music, but manages to have a snooty, arrogant, high minded attitude about everything he plays or talks about. I judge him with extreme harshness.

yo gabba gabba being an example of something created for hip stoner parents.

Haha, I love Yo Gabba Gabba and am definitely guilty of pushing it on my son.

lol we made a DVDR of Yo Gabba Gabba for my sister, who has 2 young kids, because my wife loves it so much.

"oh but WE love the pixar movies as much as junior does." i liked having my own stuff when i was a kid and my parents had exactly 0% interest in what i liked.

this is exactly why every kids movie--Alvin And The Chipmunks, Smurfs, Transformers, Karate Kid--plays into the nostalgia cycle of adults who have kids now. Because kids aren't the ones picking the movies all the time

i'm worried that if i wait too long to have kids, all the nostalgia movies are gonna be about pokemons and reboot and shit i'm too old to understand. I'm totally missing out on watching nu-Smurfs with junior

dora th explorer once told me that th reason short skirts are easier to wear in th jungle is because long flowy ones get caught on thorns.

i gotta admit, it did my heart good to see my kids fall instantly in love with Ren & Stimpy when i brought one of the full season boxes home. also, i got them this endless hannah barbara box of quick draw and touche turtle, etc, and they loved that too. the very definition of 60's crap! no parents allowed! ironically, on the hannah barbara box there is a disclaimer that says something like: THIS DVD PACKAGE IS MEANT FOR ADULT COLLECTORS AND NOT INTENDED FOR CHILDREN. !!!!! The Jetsons!

OTOH my kid has recently discovered the wit & wisdom of seinfeld...

still his favorite show is Family Guy so there's balance in his worldview

hate:
parents who put kraftwerk or acdc tee shirts on their babies
parents who tell their kids "its cool if u hate stuff,thats punk"
people who dismiss the beatles
people who only listen to classical and think Matisyahu is world music
people who get tips on buying music from All Songs Considered
babies who do the samba
pool parties with waterproof Ipod station set up next to a drink blender
people who won't buy vintage stuff because "someone died in those clothes"
people who have never heard Charles Mingus
toddlers w juicy couture sweat pants that say "Grumpy" on the butt
parents who listen to classic rock
people who like Beck but hate Ween
people who like Ween but hate smoking weed

people who like Ween but hate smoking weed

Aw man. (I don't hate, though, I just never bothered.)

people who won't buy vintage stuff because "someone died in those clothes"

Hahah wait a minute is this real? Someone said this in your hearing once?

people who won't buy vintage stuff because "someone died in those clothes"

my first boss said this when I came to work in a spiffy vintage tweed jacket/"hey you told me to dress for success"

Junk shop clothes
Will get you nowhere
They're out of season
It's betrayal with no treason
Junk shop clothes
Will get you...
There is one reason why
Your mother was a seamstress
Chaim Soutine never spent
A thrift shop dime
In his life
Lenny Bruce never walked
In a dead man's shoes
Even for one night
Junk shop shoes
Will get you nowhere
No summer pavilion
No shooting season
Junk shop clothes
Will get you...
For the rest of your life
And the sun never shone
On your frame pale and wan

That looks like stephanie from lazytown in the doodlebops. lazytown meets beyond the valley of the dolls.

Is Lazytown for raver parents?

this thread kind of makes me want to raise my baby in a soundproof box

I bet you just wanted a good excuse to

uh but re: the recent turn of discussion, I think the middle ground is to allow the kid to have his/her "own" music but also expose them to "your" music in an unobtrusive way (ie just listen to it when you normally would and they'll hear it too).

"THIS DVD PACKAGE IS MEANT FOR ADULT COLLECTORS AND NOT INTENDED FOR CHILDREN. !!!!! The Jetsons!"

Our early Sesame Street DVD says something similar - "the contents of this DVD are not suitable for todays pre-school audience" or somesuch. Wat?

from a fathers day post on facebook
"
happy fathers day dad..we put yu thru alot and u still lend us advice,th odd ten spot and hip us to th best music..i grew up hearing u play mingus,zeppelin,ike and tina,dizzy gillespie,deep purple,blossom dearie,gil evans,skynyrd,buddy rich and stevie ray vaughn..i owe u alot and will never forget it..and happy 75th"

putting him thru a lot just with that post.

'alot', sry

I think the middle ground is to allow the kid to have his/her "own" music but also expose them to "your" music in an unobtrusive way (ie just listen to it when you normally would and they'll hear it too).

Kinda how I grew up, but with even more of a slight remove since neither of my parents are music geeks in the remotest sense -- they enjoy many things and have gentle passions but nowhere near either my level or my sister's. Everyone had their own pursuits and tastes that developed over time.

I'm still amused -- and actually not surprised -- by the fact that the one album that literally all four of us owned -- we each had our separate copy in one format or another by the early nineties -- was Bob Marley's Legend.

me and my wife also recorded an album for our kid-to-be. BUT IT'S PROBABLY TOO "HIP" FOR YOU FUCKERS

xpost

Probably not super surprising since there's been at least one copy of Legend sold for everyone person on the planet.

Not super surprising but it's a little hard to imagine my dad chilling to Bob Marley still. But obviously he liked it, so there ya go.

As for n/a's album, I salute you both in this fine approach but do you really think a 75-minute Merzbow remix bonus disc was necessary?

Neither my wife nor I owns a copy of Legend and we're BLACK

makes you THINK

Just to take this thread full-circle, I've somehow turned my 7-year-old into a big time Beatles fan. To somewhat prove Whiney's much contested point, my son constantly points out when a Beatles song comes on over the PA whenever we are out shopping at various stores.

Are you sure he isn't asking after pizza?

"Meat slice."

"Yes, the Beatles."

"MEAT SLICE!"

Ned, your mom and dad had separate copies of the same album?

uh but re: the recent turn of discussion, I think the middle ground is to allow the kid to have his/her "own" music but also expose them to "your" music in an unobtrusive way (ie just listen to it when you normally would and they'll hear it too).

my kid hears all kinds of stuff but she knows what she likes, even tho she is only 2 1/2 - what's interesting is seeing what she gravitates towards and asks to hear over and over: the Chordettes' "Lollipop" (ALL TIME FAVORITE), King Khan & BBQ Show, the Ramones, Broadcast, the White Stripes, the Cramps. She will demand these bands by name. Other stuff she will hear and just completely forget/not pay attention to. She does genuinely love Yo Gabba Gabba, and I do too - it's just well made. It's not like we had to force it on her, she loved it from the second she saw it.

many x-posts

xxxpost

Not pizza, but we are considering checking out a Beatles brunch downtown that features a Beatles tribute band. This would allow my son to enjoy two favorite things at once: The Beatles and pancakes.

I have many warm memories of listening to Bob Marley while driving in the car with my dad back in the late 70s/early 80s. He really had one heck of a reggae phase for a while there.

Definitely in the camp of getting pissed off with people who outright dismiss things they don't have a clue about (nearly lost it once when two close friends nodded in agreement about how "you can only appreciate [old skool jungle] if you're on drugs" etc).

Then again, I do find it really hard to be diplomatic when someone tries to recommend I check out Jack Johnson or Noah and the Whale or something.

Ned, your mom and dad had separate copies of the same album?

They did! Still a little surprised by that one.

Dan was too busy raving to get his mandatory copy, his wife was too busy rocking out to Wagner. Or something.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_LIdO9j25Is4/TCoUv8VBMfI/AAAAAAAADqQ/GYULg40xJPA/i_love_mozart_baby_t_shirt-p235355967141145712c5jf_400.jpg

want one of those for my newborn baby girl

pool parties with waterproof Ipod station set up next to a drink blender

hey cmon this sounds great

yeah I'm not sure what could possibly be bad about that scenario

it's November and the pool party is in Madison

becauz invariably sumthing will get sp[illed

it's okay if said ipod station plays Hall & Oates.

Yeah, I was gonna say, that sounds like a dream.

blended drinks are sort of wack

there's some good bars in Madison.

maybe im just harshly judging th parrty givers for thinking they r gonna get their party started like that..and their automated lists of summer hits.. http://ageekspot.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/b81e8bd6-2692-4b6d-b285-5a4aa302627f.jpg

WELCOME TO OUR OOL. NOTICE THERE IS NO P IN IT. LET'S KEEP IT THAT WAY.

hahahahaha

hate:
parents who put kraftwerk or acdc tee shirts on their babies

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs151.snc1/5620_125476466283_577346283_2535339_121682_n.jpg

Is that you when you were younger?

Is that you every ILM poster when you they were younger?

ksh, this mix CD is tailor-made for you:

Favorite band/song from this 2003 mix CD entitled "20 Songs" that I found going through some old boxes

there's some good bars in Madison.

I think you are ignoring my (possibly horribly-formed) "joke"

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank whichever one of you owns 2 copies of legend so I don't have to.

would it be a bad guess to assume it's PM

If I judged people based on their tastes I'd have nobody to talk to at all. The only close friend I have (or have ever had) loves "Kokomo," epic fantasy novels and Glenn Reynolds.

I never understood why Kokomo was singled out among the locale-based Beach Boys songs for collective hate. Is it the Mike Love thing?

there's a whole thread on it

I think it's the "recorded 25 years post-relevance" thing. They should only show the video in rock blocks w/ touch of grey.

I have a phobia about talking about things I like, so very little of this applies to me.

i love touch of grey

"Kokomo" is basically an Animaniacs song about islands and I dig that about it.

never got kokomo, nor does it horrify me. prefer ocean man. touch of grey is great tho.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank whichever one of you owns 2 copies of legend so I don't have to.

― AESTHOLE (jjjusten), Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i remember when bob marley was cool! man, hippies and college kids can ruin anything, huh?

pretty sure Legend was a frat boy staple when Jello wrote Holiday in Cambodia

bob marley has a lot of great songs, it kinda bums me out to see ppl acting like he was a herb

i keep on thinking ppl are referring to the tom cruise movie

I agree that both Bob Marley and the Beatles have a lot of great songs -- songs that I don't go out of my way to listen to because there are lot of other great songs & music I'd prefer to listen to.

Even if you like Marley, Legend is a shitty introduction to Marley.

"concrete jungle" is a stone jam

yeah, 20 years of music reduced to one best-of that has become something of a cliche is kinda sad.

The production on it is terrible.

A lot less harshly than i used to. As long as they have some kind of passion or interest, that is. Vacuum people freak me out, though, the ones with no interest in anything.

I sometimes write people off if they don't like sabbath.

not the beatles tho. personally, I don't really care about the beatles.

I can't say that I care one way or another if someone likes the Beatles. However, I do find out-and-out Beatles freaks kinda sad and in a way that I don't find Deadheads or Juggalos sad.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2084/1784362672_0abd03e2dc_b.jpg

hahaha

i used to have http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/tiny/0/Pop-277 on my wall

One downside of Facebook is that I'm exposed to acquaintances' crackpot views on politics, religion, health, gun control, all sorts of crap I didn't ever want to know about them. I'm now officially nostalgic for the days when musical taste was the most contentious subject matter.

thats skot by th way..^ not me

that's what I thought when I first saw it

The only one of my tastes that genuinely induces raised eyebrows -- even among some critic buddies! -- is my love for pop. The subtext seems to be, "You're too old to listen to this" or "You can't possibly mean" that I listen to Miley Cyrus with genuine interest (they think I'm winking or something).

― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, June 28, 2010 7:22 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark

late to the party but this is OTMFM. I meet a lot of people who are into "indie" and I'm glad that we can talk about love for the XX but as soon as I mention that I love Taylor Swift, and I'm not being lol irony hipstre about it, I am persona non grata

re thread's original question, I generally agree with what's been sad about not being judgmental. in recent memory, I did lose it once when this girl kept on harping incessantly about how vampire weekend were awesome a la natalie portman re: the shins in garden state. I still feel kinda bad about it.

as soon as I mention that I love Taylor Swift, and I'm not being lol irony hipstre about it, I am persona non grata

told a strictly-listens-to-indie friend I thought that last Taylor Swift record ruled, and he was completely incredulous

i am modifying my cuddly position on this somewhat thx to a few peeps on the ILX 2005-2009 tracks thread

so you're a taylor swift fan now jj?

When it comes to musicians it's a little different - the drummer we played with who professed to "hate the Beatles" (but loved U2's rhythm section?!), I basically wrote him off after that.

― insert your favorite discriminatory practice here (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 28 June 2010 18:48 (3 days ago)

a drummer I'm playing with and I were just talking the other day about our shared beatles hate. we feel like a pariah minority, it's nice to have somebody to bitch to about their stupid liverpudlian carnival music.

(irl I'm not generally obnoxious about it tho - I was at a birthday party the other day and played beatles rock band, ironically scoring 99% on sgt peppers vocals)

hate:
parents who put kraftwerk or acdc tee shirts on their babies

god yes

saw a baby in a sonic youth onesie once, instant hate of parents

After which you apologized to Thurston and Kim.

lol

I don't mind band shirts on little kids tho, my daughter loves ramones so she wears ramones shirt

wish I could find her size 6 lightning bolt tee

I have a pic somewhere of a 5 year old wearing a run dmc shirt

there's no reason to dress yr baby in what is essentially a bumper sticker for yr awesome musical taste

see a 5 year old could conceivably be into run dmc

the only acceptable band onesie would be something like foghat

like if you were so into foghat you found a foghat onesie more power to you

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/foghat2600.jpg

That guy is in the mood.

I have the same problem with parents who allow their kindergarten-aged songs to grow mullets.

That guy is in the mood.

for a double-ender.

kindergarten-aged songs

ha

Our kindergarten-age next door neighbor has a mohawk.

my kindergarten-aged song has a mullet, what do I do

http://xc5.xanga.com/f50f667453635256793258/z204297273.jpg

yeah mohawks on kids are back in a big way, I kinda like it tho

I'm like look at lil travis bickle running around the schoolyard

gross

Dog mohawks are better though.

The moment I knew Erol Alkan had jumped the shark...

http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/25098357/babygrow3.jpg

xposts: who's the greasy fop coddling the moppet?

lol @ baby clothes hard-manning on this thread. babies go through like three outfits a day, you dress them in what people give you. who gives a shit

re: adult male engagement with teenpop stars, I would think the reasons that most people would find this odd/creepy are blatantly obvious. This is music that is made for and marketed to a very specific demographic. If you do not fall into that demographic many people are going to assume your interest in that demographic's music is because YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THAT DEMOGRAPHIC, and as an adult male, being interested in underage teenage girls = creepy pedo. I'm sure there are very well-reasoned arguments as to why a well-developed critical engagement of this particular subgenre is valid and that there are interesting ideas to be explored and studied (i.e. teen identity, sexuality, formal innovations and developments, etc.) - the problem is that the target demographic does not care and has no use for this critical discourse, and neither does the industry that develops and promotes the music in question. The critical discourse surrounding Taylor Swift, for example, is completely immaterial to the target demographic that consumes it (who are either incapable of or uninterested in any scholarly analysis) and to the people that create and sell it (who are by and large motivated by exclusively commercial concerns and usually little else).

many xposts

You mean the fop on the right?

xpost

who's the greasy fop coddling the moppet?

misread this as "greasy cop fondling the moppet"

Highly suspect, Shakey. You're assuming that anyone outside this board glances at rockcrit, no matter what its subject.

when have "target demographics" of any genre read ANY criticism?

I'm not saying people are right to assume the worst about adult male Taylor Swift fans, just... come on, don't act surprised.

You're assuming that anyone outside this board glances at rockcrit, no matter what its subject.

Not sure what you're getting at here...? This seems entirely beside the point.

when have "target demographics" of any genre read ANY criticism?

Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, NME/Melody Maker...

You're assuming that criticism has any kind of toehold in the world. It doesn't! What I read will be read by a few hundred people at a time at most.

I'm sure ppl walk by a newsstand and accidentally see the cover of Rolling Stone or something

Guitar World, GuitarONE, Guitar for the Practicing Musician...

Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, NME/Melody Maker...

All of which review teen pop.

lol @ baby clothes hard-manning on this thread. babies go through like three outfits a day, you dress them in what people give you. who gives a shit

sounds like somebody's baby once wore an SY onesie

are you saying that your engagement with Taylor Swift is somehow outside/independent of yr interest in critical discourse? That you just like it cuz it's TOTALLY AWESOME or something unexamined like that? That would be very unlike you

Pitchfork has not reviewed Swifty.

sounds like somebody's baby once wore an SY onesie

I think the only band outfit we had her in was a Zep IV onesie someone gave us. I was okay with that

With the bent-over old man on it? Or like, ZOSO?

Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, NME/Melody Maker...

All of which review teen pop.

I feel like we're arguing at cross-purposes here - I cited those because rock audiences read RS, indie geeks read Pitchfork, anglophiles read NME/Melody Maker (consider some of these in the past-tense of course). Female teenage Taylor Swift fans, however, don't really read think-pieces on her.

[With the bent-over old man on it?

yep old man and lantern

Not what I'm saying at all. If I'm reading you correctly, you assume that the consumption of teen pop isn't taken seriously because it's a genre marketed to teenage girls. But who are the "people" you're talking about here -- the people who won't read teen pop crit? They're not going to read reviews of country, metal, R&B, hip-hop, or any other genre not "marketed" to/at them.

"This is music that is made for and marketed to a very specific demographic."

I don't buy the "marketed to a very specific demographic" for Top 40 music (like Swift's). I hear those songs in the airport and in the supermarket. Unless you mean "marketed to people who fly and/or shop for food"? But you mean marketed to teens, I guess.

I feel like we're arguing at cross-purposes here - I cited those because rock audiences read RS, indie geeks read Pitchfork, anglophiles read NME/Melody Maker (consider some of these in the past-tense of course). Female teenage Taylor Swift fans, however, don't really read think-pieces on her.

You're partly right, but writers don't necessarily have fans in mind when they're composing something persuasive.

like rock music, indie, techno = whatever, these are socially acceptable things for an adult male to have an interest in; they are made by/for/about adult males for the most part. Teenage girl pop, not so much.

x-posts

dude my whole reason to ever have a kid would be to dress him up in extreme metal onesies

Seen on an AC/DC onesie: "We Who Are About to Walk Salute You"

but socially acceptable by whom?

Shakey that is some odious sexist bullshit regarding the "boundaries" of what it's ok for people to take interest in.

like rock music, indie, techno = whatever, these are socially acceptable things for an adult male to have an interest in;

If I were being churlish, I'd say that a fortysomething man caring about the fortunes of Interpol is pretty socially unacceptable.

to be fair to shakey, he's referring to "perceptions," but the discussion of perceptions invariably turns into an argument about power: who's creating those perceptions and who's believing them, etc.

yep old man and lantern

Oh, that's cool! I meant the old man with the sticks.

I don't buy the "marketed to a very specific demographic" for Top 40 music (like Swift's)

Top 40 a encompasses a lot of things that bear little/no resemblance to Taylor Swift tho. Swift was cited on this thread as something adult males got shit for being interested in, and I'm using her as an example of a smaller subset of Top 40, i.e. teen girl pop. You may hear her in the supermarket/airport or whatever but gimme a break you know who's actually bankrolling her career and it isn't middle-aged dads.

x-posts

but socially acceptable by whom?

the people who raise their eyebrows when they hear you like Taylor Swift! (Please note I am not one of these people, "I'm not like everybody else" haha)

I don't see that it matters who's bankrolling what; but I don't have indie ethics when it comes to music.

...the discussion of perceptions invariably turns into an argument about power: who's creating those perceptions and who's believing them, etc.

this is a totally legit point. however, because this gets into an area that is super-touchy - adult male sexual interest in underage girls - is it really any mystery why this would inflame hyper-protective suspicions? One thing every society is uptight about is protecting children, it's not really something that you can wade into and not expect a lot of fireworks.

It's all good, Shakes.

I don't see that it matters who's bankrolling what; but I don't have indie ethics when it comes to music.

maybe I need to repeat myself here: f you do not fall into that demographic many people are going to assume your interest in that demographic's music is because YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THAT DEMOGRAPHIC, and as an adult male, being interested in underage teenage girls = creepy pedo.

Please note I am NOT saying this perception is de facto legitimate, just saying that this reaction is gonna be VERY common. Almost unconcsiously so, for a lot of people.

But

Taylor Swift isn't underage!

just to clarify I was only using Taylor Swift as an example - I get equal amounts of shit from people for taking, say, the black eyed peas or diddy seriously

i can't stand it when a critic refers to the artist in question by his/her first name.

I'd say that a fortysomething man caring about the fortunes of Interpol is pretty socially unacceptable.

I lol'd

Although I take umbrage at the assumption that I am over 40! (note: I am in my 30s)

I get equal amounts of shit from people for taking, say, the black eyed peas or diddy seriously

okay that's a little more WTF.

baby ga ga

xp: It's the same radio station as T. Swift though!

Some young (ie about age 11 or 12) singers are marketed at the granny/grandad market though. Like early Charlotte Church, Faryl, and Hayley Westenra

xp: It's the same radio station as T. Swift though!

Yeah, Taylor Swift has transcended both country and teenpop and is pretty much just mainstream pop music at this point.

I think what turns heads is when adult males rhapsodize about Aly & AJ or Demi Lovato or whoever -- acts that have practically no currency outside the Radio Disney demographic.

I'll grant that Swift (like several others before her - Britney springs to mind, as does Miley Cyrus) is currently successfully migrating from kiddie-pop to just straight-up mainstream-pop-for-everybody. She was kinda straddling the line prior to winning the Grammy (lolsome as Grammys are), which I think was definitely a stamp of legitimacy from the industry.

baby clothes hard-manning

this phrase is loooool

all i know is i wanna pound her till her eyes fall out of their sockets

― Are Slimes the Jews of monsterdom? (cankles), Sunday, March 7, 2010 2:12 PM (3 months ago)

^ and people wonder why the "pedo" thing applies? ;-)

ugh