ILM July Madness: Round of 32 - WEST

the rest:

MIDWEST
9. Hall and Oates
10. Kate Bush

11. Bob Dylan
12. My Bloody Valentine

13. The Beatles
14. Madonna

15. James Brown
16. Wu-Tang Clan

EAST
17. The Cure
18. Public Enemy

19. Velvet Underground
20. Radiohead

21. Kraftwerk
22. Al Green

23. Fleetwood Mac
24. Stevie Wonder

SOUTH
25. The Fall
26. The Smiths

27. Parliament/Funkadelic
28. Brian Eno

29. Stooges
30. Steely Dan

31. Prince
32. Black Sabbath

west v midwest, east vs south

Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order

This is a pretty solid way to do it with the built-in poll system. I was trying to figure out how it would work.

I went this-a-way: Beach Boys, ABBA, CCR, Joy Division/New Order

Diametric opposite to Johnny, but that fourth bracket was murder.

Beach Boys, ABBA, Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order, i think.

Madonna/The Beatles is going to be the one that melts my brain whenever it gets here. I'm already crying.

I went this-a-way: Beach Boys, ABBA, CCR, Joy Division/New Order

― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, July 6, 2010 12:21 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Same

Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order

― iatee, Tuesday, July 6, 2010

Yep.

21. Kraftwerk
vs
22. Al Green

this is sick. how could you make someone do this?

Can, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, Joy Division/New Order

Beach Boys vs Can was the most painful in this one.

31. Prince
32. Black Sabbath

H8 u so much right now

ps no rockism/whatever complaints unless you think I left out something that could have realistically won this poll. that was my criteria. in retrospect I think I probably should have left out the stooges, but they got paired w/ duke so who cares. maybe kate bush.

ps 2: seeding was randomly generated

I think led zep might had a shot but ehhhh?

Fucking iPhone.

Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, Joy Division/New Order

wau at this

all my first round choices are easy, except for maybe having to vote against the stones. next round will get hard though.

"maybe kate bush."

maybe kate bush what? maybe leave her out b/c no one else has a chance against her?

best poll ever. went can/abba/stones/bowie. are the other divisions active yet?

south is the most fucked up bracket by far. i say this cuz fall vs. smiths & stooges vs. dan are the easiest calls for me (FALL! STOOGES!), while eno vs. p-funk & prince vs. sabbath are almost impossible. practically unfair.

Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, David Bowie

easy 4 me

Can, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, Joy Division/New Order

afaik I've never heard Can, but fuck the Beach Boys

oh shit, I voted wrong. that was supposed to be:

Can, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, David Bowie

oh well, that was the one I felt least strongly about

where can i vote for CCR, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, The Notorious B.I.G.

who is CCR?!

p much the best band ever

these are mostly gonna be easy votes for me as i actively dislike at least half these acts

where can i vote for CCR, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, The Notorious B.I.G.

― the boy boy young messi (J0rdan S.), Monday, July 5, 2010 11:47 PM Bookmark

^^^ the hardest shit since MC Ren

CCR = crime in choir

ohhhhhh CCR = creedence clearwater revival. i've heard half of one of their songs ever, at a bbq, and it was one of those final-straw-can-we-PLEASE-put-something-else-on moments. it was absolutely dreadful dad-rock. i'm boggling that a) they're considered ilm canon (don't think i've ever seen them mentioned before) and b) jordan likes (has heard!) them

not looking fwd to dylan/mbv and fall/smiths, how to bring myself to vote for any of those atrocious acts :( it already sucks that i had to vote for the rolling stones here.

also is this only a poll of elderly/dead/may as well be dead artists or...?

lex is funny

and out of 32 acts...only FOUR involve females o_0

I count at least seven acts with females, plus most of these acts had girlfriends and back up singers.

plus most of these acts had girlfriends
plus most of these acts had girlfriends
plus most of these acts had girlfriends
plus most of these acts had girlfriends
plus most of these acts had girlfriends
plus most of these acts had girlfriends

come on, was funny before you looped it. plus noting that ilm hive mind is kinda guy-centric /= sexisme!

pixies/jay-z/aaliyah would have all been decent additions (and maybe could have won a bracket?)

cant believe jordan has heard ccr

i know wtf

still, only 4 are "female artists" to any significant extent. point taken.

aretha franklin, donna summer, nina hagen, b-52s, heart, pixies, bjork, dusty springfield, joni mitchell, mazzy star/opal, missy, cher, portishead, cocteau twins, pj harvey, cat power, grace jones, nico, stereolab, the raincoats...

plus galled by absence of devo, talkingheads & boredoms

i love ccr

sbed lex tbqh

I was gonna vote CCR (don't feel too strongly either way, like a few songs by both, probably more by the Stones but their post-70s career and endless Mojo reverence is kind of offputting), but the amount of CCR love is kinda surprising me here, maybe into voting Stones

Beach Boys v Can is difficult! I like either band more than anyone else in this round.

Anyhow my first thought was the same as Johnny Fever's (Beach Boys, Abba, CCR, JD) and maybe first thoughts are the most important thing here

pixies/jay-z/aaliyah would have all been decent additions (and maybe could have won a bracket?)
plus galled by absence of devo, talkingheads & boredoms

there are tons of good additions and I thought about most of these. people should come up with good subtractions!

are the other divisions active yet?

nah my goal was to not flood new answers, not gonna do more than 1-2 at a time

plus noting that ilm hive mind is kinda guy-centric /= sexisme!

ty. yeah I had basically planned on lex coming to this thread and doing his act.

is there a place i can go that explains how this vote works?

the top of the thread? what's confusing?

what's confusing?

Like, uh, the entire thing?

I forgot some people might not have any idea what march madness is. this is a single round elimination tournament w/ 32 artists that I completely arbitrarily deemed to be ilm canon. to save space, each thread is essentially 4 poll threads at the same time, this one being:

Beach Boys vs. Can
The Notorious B.I.G. vs. ABBA
CCR vs. Rolling Stones
David Bowie vs. Joy Division/New Order

you vote for your particular mix of answers, one of which will be the 16 combinations

Can / Abba seem less ILM canon than the others here; actually would say the same about the Beach Boys. Also, why stink JD/NO together, besides the obv. reason? I love NO & like JD but they're pretty different acts. I'd have voted NO over Bowie (reluctantly) but Bowie over JD by a mile.

voted Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order fwiw.

also lol @ "stink"

Ah, got you! Beach Boys vs. Can = that's cruel, man

be *in* the xp

Also, can I really be on the verge of voting for CCR over the Stones?!??!?!?

"doing his act" smh

plus noting that ilm hive mind is kinda guy-centric /= sexisme!

it kinda IS tbh

encore encore

boring zing to go with boring taste

Also, why stink JD/NO together, besides the obv. reason?

not sure if your obv reason is 'they're the same dudes' or 'I was really limited in spots'...but, both. I was asking for recs in the thread that brought this about and that's how they came...it seemed to make sense for the purpose of this poll. maybe if this were 64 I woulda split em up. overall I don't think it's worse than sticking parliament/funkadelic together.

lex, go play on another thread

was just thinking "they're the same dudes" as the obv. reason; I'd have liked to separate them but yeah, limited spots + "just a poll" so obv. no problem.

do polls better

Beach Boys, Biggie, Stones, Bowie

Prince vs. Sabbath is definitely going to be the toughest decision of any of these.

Can, ABBA, CCR, David Bowie

I like this poll idea, iatee. Now we can finally get to the bottom of this.

this was my borderline list btw:

Pavement
Sonic Youth
Roxy Music
Daft Punk
Jay-Z
Aphex Twin
Joni Mitchell
Pixies
Pet Shop Boys

I think they'd all get plenty of votes, but, what to delete?

Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, David Bowie

Can vs Beach Boys def hardest for me.

ah i gotcha iatee

out of all these i really only like CCR and B.I.G...

well OK i like the stones too

Can, Abba, Rolling Stones, Bowie

David Bowie vs Joy Division/New Order was the toughest for me.

but fuck the Beach Boys

― The Reverend

proud to call this man my friend

Can, Abba, Rolling Stones, Bowie

I think they'd all get plenty of votes, but, what to delete?

Maybe just buy a copy of Mojo and see who isn't mentioned?

lol Matt DC, high five

Beach Boys, The Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order

― iatee, Tuesday, July 6, 2010

Yep.

― BEAROTAURDED (jjjusten), Tuesday, July 6, 2010

Thirded, the only tough one for me was Stones vs CCR. I went with the Stones whose quantity of quality trumps CCR's quality of quantity.

So how do you decide who advances here? I can imagine two options:

The set of four bands that wins the poll advances.

The four bands with the highest number of votes within their brackets advance.

I'm pretty sure that it is mathematically possible for these two options to yield different results.

its the four bands with the highest number of votes w/in their brackets

Maybe just buy a copy of Mojo and see who isn't mentioned?

lol things lots of people agree on are generally boring and safe omg what a zing

can BIG CCR new order; BIG won in penalty kix

okay inspired by 69 and the world cup I am going to enact a penalty kick system for ties

poll w/ 5 songs by one artist vs. 5 songs by the other

Can, ABBA, Stones, Bowie

Couple of tough choices there, but Can and ABBA weren't among them.

How are you determining the winner of these? Because just allowing the winning combination to go through is a bit flawed, IMO.

Imagine, for instance, a poll with these results:

Beach Boys, Notorious B.I.G., CCR, David Bowie 15
Can, ABBA, Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order 14
Can, ABBA, Rolling Stones, David Bowie 14
Can, ABBA, CCR, Joy Division/New Order 12
Can, ABBA, CCR, David Bowie 10
Can, Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order 9
Can, Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, David Bowie 8
Can, Notorious B.I.G., CCR, Joy Division/New Order 7
Can, Notorious B.I.G., CCR, David Bowie 5
Beach Boys, ABBA, Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order 4
Beach Boys, ABBA, Rolling Stones, David Bowie 4
Beach Boys, ABBA, CCR, Joy Division/New Order 3
Beach Boys, ABBA, CCR, David Bowie 3
Beach Boys, Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order 2
Beach Boys, Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, David Bowie 2
Beach Boys, Notorious B.I.G., CCR, Joy Division/New Order 1

Going by the poll results alone, this would put the Beach Boys, Biggie, CCR, and Bowie through.

However, if you actually count the number of total votes each act got, it looks like this:

Can 79
ABBA 64
Bowie 61
Stones 57
CCR 56
JD/NO 52
Biggie 49
Beach Boys 34

(I suppose there's another configuration that would allow the same quartet at the top but with Joy Division/New Order getting more votes than Bowie. I've already put too much thought into this to figure it out, though.)

he's doing the second thing that you did, the poll's just structured like this so that we don't need 4 separate poll threads

OK good!

poll w/ 5 songs by one artist vs. 5 songs by the other

This will be a trainwreck

I know huh

if someone can think of a better penalty kick system I will consider it, but it has to be:

a. a system where each artist wins x/5 in an arbitrary manner that is basically unrelated to the overall poll
b. trainwrecky

For each of the five songs on each list, we have a poll on whether that song sucks or not, & if we vote "sucks" then that's like a blocked kick.

how do we pick the songs?

There's the trainwreck right there

I will fight anyone who picks the wrong Can songs

random selection from old POX threads in the archive

I think that to pick the five songs, we have to have polls.

ohhhhhh CCR = creedence clearwater revival. i've heard half of one of their songs ever, at a bbq

See, this makes me feel better about being the guy who has never heard "Umbrella," because it's equally strange to me to imagine never having heard CCR -- they are not now top 40 obv. but the songs are pop standards, are background music for a thousand things, you hear it in the grocery... then again I am a dad so maybe the songs are played in some frequency only I can hear?

Anyway, CCR vs. Stones is interesting -- I feel like one wants to vote down RS for their last 25 years of "strangely, we still exist" but I think Rolling Stones had a higher peak -- sort of a Martinez vs. Maddux thing

Also I assume you're American?

man I think nothing riles me up more re. lol Britain vs. USA than the proud provinciality of Britishes against CCR: like, I get that your country didn't really get with these guys back in the day, but that's nothing to brag about! You can make up for that sad mistake! It's not like CCR was the Blur of their day.

Yeah, I find the concept of never hearing CCR pretty strange since they are such a staple, but I can totally buy that it's a US vs. UK thing, it doesn't really bother me.

Has Lex at least ever heard Ike and Tina Turner do "Proud Mary"?

a) there are worse things that britishers are provincial about (HIP-HOP) (R&B), i rail against my countrymen all the time
b) there are plenty of things that americans are totally, unashamedly provincial about, so uh physician heal thyself or sth
c) i don't even know the names of any CCR tracks
d) i've heard "proud mary" but it's one of those cultural osmosis things in that i'm not quite sure which version or when

Maybe it was this version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XRNQ2C2x0

Or possibly this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfyEpmQM7bw&feature=related

man I think nothing riles me up more re. lol Britain vs. USA than the proud provinciality of Britishes against CCR: like, I get that your country didn't really get with these guys back in the day, but that's nothing to brag about! You can make up for that sad mistake! It's not like CCR was the Blur of their day.

Eh, well, you're wrong there. CCR were pretty popular in the UK "back in the day", but their popularity hasn't persisted, but that's hardly unusual. Also we don't have Classic Rock stations or anything like that over here, I wouldn't expect to hear Deep Purple or 10cc or whatever much in the UK either

'british person at a BBQ' seemed like a stranger idea to me than 'lex hadn't heard CCR'

is it really that common there?

yeah lex I give you a pass since 60s rock is totally not your bag; it's other Britishes who fuck with 60s, but don't "get" CCR and make a point of it, where I'm exasperated. Like I gather that Tom D.'s point about was just that, like "why should CCR be on a UK rock fan's radar?".

xp right, and cool @ no classic rock radar, but if you're a fan of 60s rock (like the Stones) then why single out CCR as "just" American? Note I am supposing that you are a fan of 60s rock, o/w why bother commenting on CCR vs. Stones.

actually what this gets at is why the Young Rascals are obscure but I gather my reasoning there will be hard to follow so whatever

It definitely brings up this weird contrast of a British band copping an "American" vibe versus an American band working in a similar area. There's this weird implication that the British version is the only relevant one because it is at a remove from the real thing and thus can be enjoyed as "artful" or even "ironic".

Like I gather that Tom D.'s point about was just that, like "why should CCR be on a UK rock fan's radar?"

No, that's not even close, more that you would not hear CCR "in a grocery" in the UK, nor is it "background music for a thousand things" in the UK. Ditto Deep Purple, or ... basically take your pick of late 60s/ early 70s rock bands.

... be they British or American or whatever

CCR were dudes from berkeley copping a southern vibe xp

true

ok! I guess I'm just interpolating from other threads where UK posters seemed to be saying something stronger about CCR, like, what's so great about them? To the extent they're part of the ILM canon, it's not b/c they're seen as just some great instance of 60s rock---it's that they're sui generis, i.e. the lone chooglers.

I'm just interpolating from other threads where UK posters seemed to be saying something stronger about CCR, like, what's so great about them?

Springsteen deserves this, not CCR.

the biggest springsteen fanatic I know is irish, weirdly enough

and like, he's the follow tour around europe type

ok---so what's the British equivalent of Springsteen in this regard, meaning an act who Britishes adore & sells out massive stadia across the land, whilst Americans roll their eyes?

I'm British and relatively youngish and 'Bad Moon Rising' totally permeated my consciousness through films, TV, general ubiquity. I don't get how you could not have heard at least one CCR song.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxpost

James Brown vs Wu-Tang? That's just cruel.

anyway back on the CCR/RS - 'faking southern music' - if the RS were from say, boston, but their music was 100% the same, would their southern-sounding stuff be accepted as authentic in the same way that CCR's is? how much british is actually hiding in the music?

ok---so what's the British equivalent of Springsteen in this regard, meaning an act who Britishes adore & sells out massive stadia across the land, whilst Americans roll their eyes?

T Rex, Slade, Status Quo - these are most like CCR, I think

I was being cheeky about Springsteen, he has millions of fans here, he just makes me roll my eyes

fogerty on 'born on the bayou':

""Born on the Bayou" was vaguely like "Porterville," about a mythical childhood and a heat-filled time, the Fourth of July. I put it in the swamp where, of course, I had never lived. It was late as I was writing. I was trying to be a pure writer, no guitar in hand, visualizing and looking at the bare walls of my apartment. Tiny apartments have wonderful bare walls, especially when you can't afford to put anything on them. "Chasing down a hoodoo." Hoodoo is a magical, mystical, spiritual, non-defined apparition, like a ghost or a shadow, not necessarily evil, but certainly other-worldly. I was getting some of that imagery from Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters. "

re. the Stones, I'm guessing you mean post-1968? b/c before that the Britishness is overt. After 1968 it's still there: in the distance Jagger puts on with his twangy vocals, in the lyrical detachment regarding race in "Brown Sugar"; and more critically, in their ability to move between different genres of American dance music from the 60s onward without ever having to own any of them.

right I meant the stuff like 'country honk'

T Rex was huge in the US, though; "Bang A Gong" is a mainstay of US sporting events I think (I guess it's a been a while, maybe not anymore)(of course so is "Song 2"). Status Quo is a good one, in that I think the comparison to CCR is ludicrous and makes my point.

I bet Lex and others have heard "Fortunate Son," since it's the go-to soundtrack for any TV/movie scene of a helicopter hovering over the Vietnam jungle.

Bet you CCR had more hits in the UK than T Rex had in the US. More than T Rex, Slade and Status Quo put together I would guess. (xp)

CCR had more UK #1s (one, "Bad Moon Rising") than they did US #1s.

Ha! Also three Top 10, two Top 20, three Top 40 hits.

right---& T Rex wasn't that huge in the US, looking at the stats; "Bang a Gong" only hit #10.

Most bands would give their left bollock for that little list! (xp)

I guess my point above about CCR vs. the Stones isn't really about authenticity vs. inauthenticity, but really about how each band might be perceived.

I can imagine CCR being heard as simply an American band doing American music and that there maybe isn't a lot of interest in that compared to the Stones who perhaps "interpret" American music and thus turn it into something unusual, familiar and unfamiliar at the same time.

And it's probably true that the Stones are the better band. I voted for them because they just have way more classic songs than CCR and kept getting better and better well after CCR folded.

However, CCR shouldn't be ignored, they are a damn good band and John Fogerty is one of the all-time greates rock vocalists, an amazing song writer, and a great guitarist.

all-time greatest

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

CCR vs. Stones is doing my head in

afaik I've never heard Can, but fuck the Beach Boys

I voted for Can, but fuck anyone who says "fuck the Beach Boys"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WP2exZurfc

just because u hate panda bear doesn't mean you should blame brian wilson

lex pretend vs. Herman G. Neuname

acoleuthic vs. Tuomas

Geir Hongro vs. Matos W.K.

deej vs. Whiney G. Weingarten

Maximum Hongroe

poll w/ 5 songs challops by one artist contributor to ILM vs. 5 songs challops by the other

Not sure that "I Get Around" is going to convince Beach Boys haters. I mean, I like the Beach Boys for songs like that, but I love them for songs like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDjLyB9NK0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BLyXRPl1aE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYIlH4nOEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E9obXA6mDY

just because u hate panda bear doesn't mean you should blame brian wilson

― ILX trolls and "autistic" use of the N-word (crüt), Friday, July 9, 2010 7:36 AM Bookmark

never liked them in the first place dude. their voices drive me up the wall. (altho obv they aren't as bad as panda bear)

those beach boys songs are not as good as I Get Around

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Hryc5t2wQ

those beach boys songs are not as good as I Get Around

― ILX trolls and "autistic" use of the N-word (crüt)

OT-friggin-M!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

DAMMIT ROLLING STONES!

so Can, The Notorious B.I.G., Rolling Stones, Joy Division/New Order are the winners?

That's how I read it.

Here's the vote tally by matchup:

Beach Boys 45
*Can 46

* The Notorious B.I.G. 47
ABBA 44

CCR 30
* Rolling Stones 61

David Bowie 39
* Joy Division/New Order 52

gonna double check the math, but those all add up to 91 so I imagine it's right

beach boys out already = breaks my heart

not too sure abt these seedings

Some heartbreakers already!

didn't expect Can to take out Beach Boys

ABBA was robbed. BIG is the worst! Wack east coast hip hop bias strikes again.

not too sure abt these seedings

― mookieproof, Friday, July 9, 2010 9:28 PM (Yesterday)

It's true, the random seeding has some strange effects. For example, either Radiohead or The Velvet Underground isn't going to make it past round 1.

Joy Div over Bowie = fuck every last motherfucking one of you

Beach Boys 45
*Can 46

A tad close, what happens if there's a draw?

q: and in the case of a tie?
a: uh...I'll count up the number of times the vote was mentioned on the thread - tie goes to the non-lurkers

Beach Boys 45
*Can 46

Oops, I forgot to vote, and I was going Beach Boys. Still, I like Can plenty too, and they'd probably have taken the tie-breaker.

actually I changed the tie-breaker in the course of this thread to a penalty kick poll - 5 songs from one v. 5 songs from another

I'd rather there just weren't any ties dammit, but it's gonna happen

Joy Div over Bowie = fuck every last motherfucking one of you
--ain't too proud to blog (Noodle Vague)

Seriously.

to be fair it was JD/NO vs. Bowie and I rate NO high over both JD and DB.

I used to have a lot of love for NO and I guess some of the big singles still reach a spot but they fill me with inertia nowadays in a way that Bowie never has

Can???

a travesty, esp relative to the east, where decency won out. beach boys beating can was inevitable (if tragic), couldn't care less about abba vs. biggie, slightly cheered by the stones' victory over CCR, but fucking useless fucking JD/NO over bowie just steams my hams. the day i never again walk into every shop in town and hear unknown pleasures every fucking day will be the best day ever. i tell you true.

um Can won

need to get into Bowie more but basically agreed on JD/NO

So who won, can't be arsed counting up the votes, spoonfeed me

Hating JD/NO is like hating pizza

it's more that nothing I've heard of theirs has really moved me at all - maybe I need to hear them a bit more

hating JD/NO is more like hating olives/tacos

but olives are like my favourite OK LOOK I'M GOING FOR A JOG NOW SEEYA

Not giving a fuck about JD/NO is like not giving a fuck about a Margherita

or maybe like hating pesto/pizza

um Can won

oh duh. miscounted. hooray!

btw I didn't see this poll in time but it is pretty astonishing that "Can, The Notorious B.I.G., CCR, David Bowie" only got one vote for that is how I too would have voted

holy shit then it would have had 2 votes!

sorta surprised that lj likes CCR?

Too English is he?

Maybe he just hates the Stones

Maybe he just hates the Stones

'Gimme Shelter' is quite good. If someone could suggest some Stones tracks I might like then go ahead. But at this moment in time I can't freakin' stand them. Literally cannot wait until I reclaim my glorious surname from that charlatan

and his poxy spawn

always been a fan of "under my thumb" personally

ok well let's have a listen to 'under my thumb'

hang on this is from their early phase when they still had ideas

that's a funny way to characterize their early career imho

I mean I like the Stones and all - love a fair amount of their material - but they have always been outright thieves/magpies.

:D basically flaunting my ignorance in that charming way o' mine

but this has some groovy xylophone stylings and a cool tune. would listen again. no it isn't very original but I don't associate xylophone-borne melodies with The Stones, so it's at least a little surprising!

the next track on Spotify is Ministry's cover, which I am enjoying possibly even more

:/

Don't try to tell me you don't like "Paint It Black"

.. or "Paint It, Black" to be pedantic about it

xps.....nah, it's not that good, tbh - Ministry can do better than this

:D basically flaunting my ignorance in that charming way o' mine

What's charming about it?

Self-deprecation is an art, my dear WmC

Oh I know this song! It was in that film. It's quite good, yeah. Again, though, it's from their first album! How the hell can a band this unoriginal release thirty goddamn albums or whatever it is

Paint It Black is an amazing tune

it is not from their first album!

"Original"? What does that even mean?

it means 'bringing new ideas to the table', 'displaying a modicum of artistic innovation', 'doing anything remotely surprising'

Oh wait, so Aftermath isn't their first record? They've been going bloody ages :/

Geirspeak

give me some credit dude, I am attempting to engage with a band I don't like very much - I could have just walked in here, farted at the Stones, and sauntered out

Aftermath is like their 5th record or something

Yes, but you should hear the Caridacs 5th album

my guess is you'd like the mid-period stuff the most from what you're saying - the period where they were no longer shameless American R&B copyists (really some of that early stuff is SO EGREGIOUS - sometimes good/great, sometimes awful) but before they'd morphed into blues-rock libertines, basically the period where most of their interesting ideas were coming from Brian Jones. Their psych phase is hilarious, but has lots of great tunes.

Prolly. But then if you like "Gimme Shelter"...

so like Their Satanic Majesties Request, then?

Gimme Shelter is a rollicking, unimpeachable piece of aural chemistry that defies its lumpen source material - this shit can't be legislated for

I'd recommend: Aftermath - Between the Buttons - Her Satanic Majesties - Beggar's Banquet

HSM is a goddamn silly record but it has some great stuff on it and is a wonderful mess

Shakey's recs are how I got into them and sidestepped some of the conclusions I'd drawn about them growing up with them as the biggest band on the planet. Maybe also check out "Street Fighting Man" if you like Gimme. Or just enjoy this, the version sung by the original version's "back-up" singer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPx1Zlc0IBU

ah sweet guys, cheers - will give those albums a listen