ILM July Madness: ELITE EIGHT

can, ????? forever, velvets, eno

Can Bob View Eno?

24 polls and only 3 have been within 5 votes (beach boys/can, big/abba, stevie wonder/fleetwood mac)

Can Beatles VU Prince, for me

'View' is also four consecutive letters in 'Stevie Wonder' fwiw

Can 'The Beatles' Stevie, Wonder(s) Prince?

super boring but

Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder, Prince

yeah that's how i voted, too.

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Velvet Underground, Prince

velvets v. wonder is too fucking hard, if only velvets went against any of the first four they'd get my vote.

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Prince for me.

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Prince
Stones and Prince are easy picks. Between the Beatles and Bob, I feel like Dylan is hurt by having a long career with lots and lots of crap I never want to hear again, whereas I can count on one hand the number of Beatles songs I outright dislike. If this were a contest specifically pitting Dylan 65-67 against Beatles 65-67, he just might win. Then again, I know damn well I listen to Rubber Soul more than Highway 61 Revisited, so maybe not.
Going by that logic, I should be voting VU over Stevie too (I mean, I even like Squeeze, whereas I've listened to Character once, and have no intention of revisiting it anytime soon), but Songs in the Key in Life is an occasional contender for my favorite album. As much as I love the Velvets, they just have fewer songs that strike me as indispensable to my personal sanity and happiness.

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Velvet Underground, Prince

bob was close, stevie was close, can v. close, but no frickin contest w/r/t prince pwning eno

i don't think it's ever really been a question that prince is gonna vanquish this poll

http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/take_eno.gif

Stones, Beatles, VU, Prince

In 100 years all eight of these will still be remembered, but I wouldn't be surprised if Eno was considered the most important to music.

Eno stans lose their mind. Film at 11.

history book 100 years from now: "Few people actually bought an Eno record, but everyone who did started an ILM poll"

yeah but will Eno be regarded as most important to dance, sex or romance I THOUGHT NOT

stfu lewis

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Velvet Underground, Prince

― u dad (J0rdan S.)

^^^^^^^^^^^^this

he will cause we will having ambient dance parties, ambient sex and ambient romantic adventures xp

haha dude I got srs <3 for Eno AND Prince and it wasn't a decision I took too lightly - no idea why you still feel the need to pile into me at every opportunity xxp

lol iatee

also are people being goddamn serious about the Stones? good fucken lord

Stones, Beatles, VU, Prince. Easiest one for me yet actually!

women come and go but the Stones are forever!

xpost

there aren't a lot of matchups in this that i feel aggressively adamant about, but Stevie Wonder >>> Velvet Underground, fuiud

haha dude I got srs <3 for Eno AND Prince and it wasn't a decision I took too lightly - no idea why you still feel the need to pile into me at every opportunity xxp

sorry I forgot the winkie "I'm not serious" emoticon in my post

:( oops

there aren't a lot of matchups in this that i feel aggressively adamant about, but Stevie Wonder >>> Velvet Underground, fuiud

― some dude, Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:10 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah ffs what is up w you people

i mean they had 4 albums & only 2 of them were like GREAT great

R&B thread contributers choosing VU over Stevie is the ultimate o_O

VU is the only remaining act with a woman as a full-time member!

not that that should determine anyone's vote, just sayin'

imo the best of VU can be contained on a single "best of" type cd, but there are at least six full Stevie Wonder lps that are front-to-back essential. To that end, there are at least a couple John Cale and Lou Reed solo albums that I like more than any single VU album.

counting the VU album they have 5 and of those 4 of them were great great and one of them was half great great

to lj's point, if this were a bracket of genuinely cool rock'n'roll people, I would hope Moe Tucker made the ELITE EIGHT w/o much trouble.

Rolling Stones, Beatles, Velvet Underground, Prince. Not even difficult.

people are free to incorporate solo albums however they want in their voting btw

Stevie vs. VU was definitely the toughest choice for me, but in the end I went Can Beatles View Prince?

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Velvet Underground, Prince

also how the FUCK did I miss this until now?

by 'incorporate solo albums' I just mean that if you're letting dylan's work in the 80s affect your decision making, I don't think you can just pretend paul mccartney stopped existing, even though I can understand the temptation.

tho I guess there is some appeal in the beatles/vu having tidy discographies and easy to follow career arcs

part of me wants to think that all Dylan is as light, airy, idyllic and perfect as Visions Of Johanna, Stuck Inside Of Mobile, Chimes Of Freedom, Just Like A Woman and othersuch - if it was, I'd have considered voting for him

does anyone else love bob dylan and basically not like blonde on blonde at all?

I'm sorry but that's just weird.

gonna add Lay Lady Lay to that list although I think I slightly prefer the Byrds version - there are plenty more Dylan songs I love but a few leap to mind as deserving nomination right now

not liking blonde on blonde doesn't make sense to me. THAT ORGAN

Does not compute.

ha yeah super weird! just like an ilxor

does anyone else love bob dylan and basically not like blonde on blonde at all?

YES! I've found a kindred spirit! I thought all this time it might just be me.

I dunno, there's just something about the *sound* of the record that I just really dislike. which is funny cause iirc he called it the only record that sounded like he wanted it to sound?

also I might not survive the sbs but:
70s dylan > 60s dylan

johnny let's start our own island community and never deal w/ these people again

I actually met one other person who agreed once, so we're 3

It's just an overlong, shambling mess of a record with very few hallmarks of what I find most likeable about Dylan in the '60s (be it acoustic or electric). I'm also not wild about John Wesley Harding, though it give it credit for being the home to "Watchtower."

btw iatee and fever that first song about getting stoned is a joke, i hope you manage to listen past it next time

It's his best-produced record ever! You're nuts!

seriously the sound of that record is the druggy everlasting summer of love that basically no other album ever quite sounds like

stevie wonder released a lot of horseshit post-80s. vu released 2 awesome albums and 2 really great/almost awesome albums nuff said fuiud

stevie versus vu is like light versus darkness

counting solo albums, VU have like 13 great albums

stevie versus vu is like light versus darkness

― hobbes, Wednesday, 21 July 2010 03:57 (1 minute ago)

countdown to THATS RACIST dot gif

stevie = light
vu = darkness

racism = ??

talkin' bout "life is wonderful love love love" vs. "i couldn't hit it sideways"

but vu are white light, and they're white heat as well

you confused me by bigging up VU in your previous post. also delete ILX. also delete analogies.

delete yrself u have no chance to live

:(

ALSO I just reminded myself of the tracklist for Blonde On Blonde and yeah I mean yeah guys

louis that was a joke about atari teenage riot, ~god~

I'm going to listen to Blonde on Blonde again sometime this week just because of this thread (it's been five or more years since I've last heard it). Maybe I'll like it more this time?

blonde on blonde is such a classic road trip album.

remember to turn it up loud xp

Yeah, I'll have to dig the cd out of a box, but I'm going to play it in my car full blast for optimal enjoyment potential.

in the car is optimal - that album powered so many awesome car journeys when I was little :)

don't listen to them johnny!! fight for minority opinion dylan fan rights

Know thine enemy, iatee!

btw lol gbx - i figured i'd play along with w/e it was! maybe next week an alternative canon poll featuring ATR

tbh, it's one of the few Dylan albums I've only listened to a handful of times because it didn't click early. There are a few others, mostly from the '80s, a couple from the '70s, but I don't really feel like putting any effort into those.

stevie wonder released a lot of horseshit post-80s. vu released 2 awesome albums and 2 really great/almost awesome albums nuff said fuiud

― hobbes, Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:56 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stevie also released 10x as many classic records

So Stevie Wonder released a lot of crap? Don't listen to it. It's not too difficult to avoid at this point.

I voted: Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Prince

Can never meant shit to me. The Beatles over Dylan, easy. I admire Dylan as a songwriter and consider him "important" but for the most part I don't enjoy listening to his recordings. I don't love the Beatles as much as I did even a decade ago, but there's still a serious mass of work there that I'm pretty crazy about. Shocked by some of the people voting VU over Stevie, and I like VU (though it helps if you toss out about half of what's on each album). Wasn't I just stanning for Eno earlier this week? Maybe but Prince just feels right. The justification for Eno seems to conceptual. I also have to admit I like the racial symmetry voting for Prince creates.

I think some people forget the amazing singles Stevie Wonder put out early on before the more album oriented stuff.

pretty sure anti-stevie voters have heard like 4 stevie singles from one era & think they have him pegged as the dude w/ the huge forehead

velvet underground and nico
white light/white heat
velvet underground
loaded
VU
transformer
berlin
coney island baby
new york
songs for drella
paris 1919
fear
slow dazzle
music for a new society

Can, don't care, toss up, Brian Eno

oh yeah coney island baby is really fucking with hotter than july

smh

the only result that will disappoint me here is when the Stones win btw - although equally one might say it should have been Faust instead of Can ;)

pretty sure anti-stevie voters have heard like 4 stevie singles from one era & think they have him pegged as the dude w/ the huge forehead

Haha, since we don't agree with you we must be idiots without your vast musical knowledge. Trust me I considered the 6 Stevie albums I own and love in my decision.

Haha, since we don't agree with you we must be idiots without your vast musical knowledge

jon/via/chi 2.0 otm

I suppose I should have went with "lacking" there. Sorry we aren't as awesome at music as you.

im glad thats settled

You were a better poster when you weren't such a dick, tbh.

hey just popping to ask people why they're voting for the dude with the huge forehead? wtf do you guys have EARS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE

was gonna click play, but damn that forehead............

hey just popping to ask people why they're voting for the dude with the huge forehead? wtf do you guys have EARS

― u dad (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:33 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

just wd like to point out that u have never heard madonna so probably are fronting at least a lil bit itt

I think some people forget the amazing singles Stevie Wonder put out early on

^this! Some of the Little Stevie Wonder singles are truly legend.

just wd like to point out that stevie wonder has a huge forehead

rolling stones, beatles, velvet underground, brian eno

does this make me a horrible person/rockist

also a racist

also a foreheadist

stones bob stevie eno

eno vs prince is hard for me

probably listen to way more eno than i do prince

but i feel bad abt that, its not something i like

otherwise can/beatles/wonder/...

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Prince

Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder, Prince

I'm still not sure if I made the right call wrt Dylan over the Beatles. I spent several whole days after September 9 last year scouring the internet and downloading 320 kbps copies of every single mono and stereo master that was reissued.

stevie wonder released a lot of horseshit post-80s. vu released 2 awesome albums and 2 really great/almost awesome albums nuff said fuiud

― hobbes, Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:56 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stevie also released 10x as many classic records

ok again, i LOVE stevie, but the dude did not release 20 CLASSIC albums FFS.

but honestly, all bullshit aside, i choose vu because i choose darkness

Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Velvet Underground, Prince.

none of these are really close for me at this point...I need to listen to Stevie Wonder's albums (I will, later this year!) but right now it's VU; anyway I'll vote both Prince & Eno over both the VU & Stevie Wonder, so it's not a big decision for me.

actually voting bob dylan, that's how much i hate the beatles

this final eight completely sucks, when did ilm turn into the conservative mojo readership

Can't decide, Couldn't give a fuck, Stevie, Can't decide

ILM didn't turn into the Mojo club any more than it already is - this is what happens when you get an arbitrary Rawk-leaning list whittled away at in arbitrary fashion, i.e. results tell you things about the poll system really. But it's not exackly a surprise that popular things are popular - all that diverse stuff that gets talked about on here is being talked about by small cadres of fans, whereas even you, lex, have got an opinion on the Beatles.

Important thing to remember is it's all a load of pointless bollocks.

Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Prince

already regret not voting for can. do-over.

it's ok, nobody's gonna die

noodle vague otm

Why isn't there an option for Prince, Eno, Stevie, The Beatles? That would be my vote.

Because that's not how a single elimination tournament works.

What's an single elimination tournament? Couldn't we just vote for our four favourites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-elimination_tournament

A single-elimination tournament, also called a knockout, cup or sudden death tournament, is a type of elimination tournament where the loser of each match is immediately eliminated from winning the championship or first prize in the event.

iirc iatee chose the match-ups at random. In sports, the opponents are usually seeded/ranked best vs. worse based on their win-loss record, but doing so in this instance would lead to all kinds of griping. What's a win? What's a loss? Random match-ups were the only way to go.

If you look at the chart posted at the top of the thread, you'll see the process of how we got to the point we're currently at.

there aren't a lot of matchups in this that i feel aggressively adamant about, but Stevie Wonder >>> Velvet Underground, fuiud

basically anyone voting for VU over Stevie is DEAD TO ME. DEAD TO ME. even the weirdos voting some egghead over Prince just kind of perplex me, but anyone who would vote for anyone (even their moms or Jesus) over Stevie must be crushed.

Even though I only dislike one of the acts left, the gulf between how much I like each member of these pairings makes this by far the easiest decision of the tournament:

Can, Dylan, VU, Eno

If it makes the very fucked-up-in-the-head Stevie fans any better, I shall play my story time Little Stevie Wonder in Places Under the Sun touch and play book over and over again until I am quite as insane.

Can, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Prince

Can = the annoying contestant on American Idol every year that you can't figure out why they keep advancing, but they get far enough that they're only left with their own fans while all the other displaced fans gather together and vote them off.

Except, maybe not on ILM? This place is so weird.

(In case anyone misconstrues my above post, Stevie Wonder is not the artist I dislike, I was merely responding to the OTT postings above.)

Can are also the best band left on this list BY MILES.

U R RONG

I mean, Can...whatever. I don't love or hate them. They exist in my periphery. How someone could feel strongly about them in any capacity escapes my understanding.

That's kinda where I'm coming from on Eno.

This, on the other hand, this is a strong contender for the only song I'd ever need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14hskyBXkPo

(not actually "live", obvs)

Hmm, Can and Eno are just about the only two that I would listen to for fun at this stage. Either totally burnt out on the rest or I never liked them much in the first place.

Out of the 32 acts in this poll I'd rate Can ahead of Radiohead and MBV, but no higher. I like them fine! "Vitamin C" is a nice song! But I don't get the big deal.

this is what happens when you get an arbitrary Rawk-leaning list whittled away at in arbitrary fashion, i.e. results tell you things about the poll system really.

the list was rawk-leaning cause I sorta figured that in a poll of this many people, the voting would be. so I mean, it wasn't *completely arbitrary*, there was logic behind it and that was "what's gonna get votes"?

if biggie/public enemy/wu had made the quarterfinals I would be regretting not including more rap. but looking at the results, I think I probably should have included neil young.

The only Velvets song that comes close to Stevie for me is "I Can't Stand It."

I'd have like to see Aaliyah and Jay-Z: I think they're higher in the ILM canon than Radiohead and the Stooges.

Jay-Z tied with them perhaps, but Aaliyah has a lot of "oh I love a couple songs" fans and a very few "OMG SHE WAS A GODDESS" fans on ILM.

jay-z was on my first attempt at a list of 32, but I figured that a lot of people were sorta burnt out on him as a person right now that he didn't have the kind of universal support here that he might have some years ago.

aaliyah I didn't think had a long enough career (also didn't include big star for that reason)

I don't regret including radiohead - probably the single most talked about group on this site - but yeah the stooges wouldn't be on version 2.0.

Looking at the original nominees, I think the only really "wtf?!" choice was Hall & Oates. Why did you think they'd be in the ILM canon?

I probably would've replaced them with Miles Davis or John Coltrane.

Can, The Beatles, Velvet Underground, Brian Eno

cause my previous poll had been:
duran duran vs. hall and oates

I mean they are ilm canon for sure, but they're second tier canon I guess.

yeah stooges, hall and oates and maybe black sabbath would be the only changes.

I left off jazz on purpose.

the list was rawk-leaning cause I sorta figured that in a poll of this many people, the voting would be

ilm polls over the years don't exactly suggest this site is a rawk-leaning one.

I left off jazz on purpose.

Why is that? There's plenty of jazz fans on ILM, I'm sure Miles would've gotten more votes than some of the candidates here.

It's probably good that Stooges, Sabbath, Hall & Oates, ABBA, etc were in here. If you'd replaced them with Miles or Neil Young or whatever, people would start killing each other when the results rolled in.

1. it just seemed too apples and oranges? not that can vs. biggie isn't.
2. if I added miles, I would have to add a lot of things.
3. a lot of people don't listen to jazz and would probably vote against the artists just on that alone - which means that miles davis could potentially lose to hall and oates or something.

I dunno I def thought about it. miles placed on 70s polls iirc, but if I were going on that, might as well include sly or the clash. (which I also considered, mostly sly)

Those four all read like solid ILM canon to me. Well, overwhelming H&O love feels like a more recent trend, but I remember checking out Abandoned Luncheonette about two years ago on the basis of its overwhelming praise in some ilm thread.

But I mean, I very, very surprised that the others aren't still in the running.

I'm

This is getting good.

actually voting bob dylan, that's how much i hate the beatles

Hahaha

Important thing to remember is it's all a load of pointless bollocks.

This is key.

ilm polls over the years don't exactly suggest this site is a rawk-leaning one.

well, certainly not contemporary rawk-leaning, and that's why I left it at radiohead. regardless, I don't think you have to be 'rawk-leaning' to like the beatles and bob dylan.

Beatles, maybe not, Dylan, certainly.

I've never met anyone who'd like Dylan and not be rock-leaning.

you live in finland

So?

Generally only rock-leaning music fans tend to tolerate such crappy singers as Dylan.

Dylan is about songwriting, Tuomas. Storytelling. People from all walks quote Dylan like they do Shakespeare.

There has to be a trance mix of at least one Bob Dylan song out there?

Or like, a happy hardcore Mr. Tambourine Man...

Dylan is about songwriting, Tuomas. Storytelling. People from all walks quote Dylan like they do Shakespeare.

They do? Can you tell me what are the famous Dylan quotes then, 'cause only one I can think of is "times they are a-changing".

Or better yet, can you provide me with an example of a non-rock fan quoting Dylan?

famous Dylan quotes:

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

"Only time will tell what stands the test of time."

"We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary."

probably the most prominent non-rock fan quoting Dylan was Richard Nixon, who quoted Dylan's "Leaving On A Jet Plane" in his resignation speech.

But Nixon was a rock fan, he let the Beatles smoke weed in the White House!

And he made Elvis a sheriff!

no, you don't understand, Richard Nixon is the name of my dog!

Why did your dog resign?

He got other dogs to break into the neighbors house and pee on the rug.

she wanted to leave on a jet plane

I have never heard of Richard Nixon. Is he a musician?

No, he's a dog. And apparently the most prominent non-rock Dylan-quoter.

it's a she, & yes, a musician: played bongos on Dylan's "Me & Julio Down By The Schoolyard".

Back to that, I can't name names. I just notice it when it happens, like on tv or during a university course or something.

it's a she, & yes, a musician: played bongos on Dylan's "Me & Julio Down By The Schoolyard".

Okay, but this disqualifies her as a proof of Dylan's influence.

Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Fever?

"Dylan is so famous he's even quoted by his own canine band members!"

Stones, Beatles, Stevie, Prince. Beatles/Dylan the only close one, and Prince the only artist left I actually give a shit about tbh.

The Rolling Stones are the boring choice; Can are just boring, period.

you guys, tuomas has convinced me and I think I'm gonna shut down this poll and restart it without the obscure singer songwriter 'bob dylan' (if that's even his real name)

sorry for all the trouble :(

gonna replace him with a finnish rap star unless anyone has any objections

don't you mean THE finnish rap star

MC Will.fully.obtuse?

I only like his early stuff

He's the one who sampled that David Bowie song, "Whip It", right? It has a cool beat but he ripped it off Run DMC's "Rock the Bells".

I am actually surprised that there isn't more complaining about the lurker vote...surely there aren't 123 regular ILM posters? I don't have a problem with them (vote away, guys) but that seems like a good thing to complain about, just giving suggestions.

I mean maybe there are 123 regular posters, a lot of people hide in threads I don't read

you guys, tuomas has convinced me and I think I'm gonna shut down this poll and restart it without the obscure singer songwriter 'bob dylan' (if that's even his real name)

Nice way of twisting the argument. I wasn't saying Dylan shouldn't be here, I was only questioning your claim that people who aren't rock-leaning like Dylan too.

my mom likes bob dylan. my mom mostly listens to contemporary pop and country music. I am not going to let you meet her though, for obvious reasons.

Is your mom an ILXor?

yes, her username is HI DERE

you are beyond grounded

but MOMMMMM

wait until your father gets home, mister

I guess on some level Rolling Stones deserve to beat Can, but I'm going to be very sad when it happens.

tuomas: bob dylan is the single most famous english-language singer-songwriter of the 20th century - it is not that difficult to imagine that there is somebody out there who doesn't love 'rock music' (whatever this means and bob dylan's career has as much to do with folk, pop and country music as he does with 'rock') and still appreciates bob dylan's work. this is where you being from finland actually does affect your perspective because you take american culture piece by piece and from a distance.

(xp)

there's definitely over 100 ilm posters, not sure if there's 200

4,304 registered users @ ilx

ummmm im p sure t-dawg is right: no1 who likes bob dylan doesnt like bob dylan & no amount of tedious joke posts can refute that

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/14639/80884

found this w/ a google search for rappers who liked bob dylan

then I saw the author

Prince v Eno and Dylan v Beatles are kinda tough for me. may have to flip a coin or something

Don't forget this Bob Dylan reference from a classic hip-hop song:

I bet you'll hear my whistle blowin when my train rolls in
It goes [whistling sound] like dust in the wind

Also, this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22blowin+in+the+wind%22+site%3Aohhla.com&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Eno and Prince have both made so much garbage, its hard to determine whose got the more egregious set of failings

I'm going back to new york city, I do believe I've had enough

boring garbage vs. embarrassing garbage

btw i mostly listen to hip-hop and love bob dylan, you crazy finnish person

hip hop wouldn't even exist without bob dylan yeah I said it

Can, The Beatles, Velvet Underground, Prince

also I had not problem voting VU over Stevie - I love his 70s run of course but pretty much don't care about any of his early stuff or anything after Songs in the Key of Life (and even that one is kinda the beginning of the end for me). Whereas the Velvets' catalog is titanic and dense and so wildly varied, I go back to it a lot.

Can, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Brian Eno

Shakey Mo is right: we would never have Wyclef's "Gone Til November" without Dylan.

can beatles vu brian eno

but could probably have gone with several permutations, that's just what i was feelin at the time

feelin kind a krautrocky today and just sold a bunch of crappy 90s/00s Prince so I'm gonna go with Eno ... I guess

Stones, Dylan, VU, Eno

Dylan is about songwriting, Tuomas. Storytelling. People from all walks quote Dylan like they do Shakespeare.

bob dylan is the single most famous english-language singer-songwriter of the 20th century

not saying this to support w/e Tuomus is arguing, but there's some completely OTT Dylan stanning going on here. to compare quoting Bob Dylan, which I'm sure happens sometimes, to the way Shakespeare introduced words and phrases to the english language that tons of people use all the time without even knowing that they're quoting anything is completely fucking absurd. also calling him the most famous singer-songwriter of the 20th century is a bit ridiculous when there are people like, eh, idk, ELVIS or MICHAEL JACKSON. i mean, if you whittle down the singer-songwriter genre to include only vaguely folky guys/girls with a guitar, then you've still got like Bruce Springsteen and Jimi Hendrix and Neil Young and tons of other guys who are at least equally famous.

you Dylan nutjobs should just admit that Kate Bush is better.

I hate Bob Dylan, but "Boots of Spanish Leather" was in, like, The Norton Anthology of Poetry, and he's frequently nominated for the Nobel Prize for Literature, so I do think he gets respect beyond "rock dudes."

just wanna make sure that is not a response to my post b/c: not saying this to support w/e Tuomus is arguing

jimi hendrix is a folky singer-songwriter?

cuz my impression was that he was a touched crazy ass laser guitar ninja of the light brigade, but my bad

btw, Elvis didn't write shit. They actually make a point of telling you this OUT LOUD when you visit Graceland and get to the Trophy Room. He only recorded other people's material or songs which other people gave him to sing.

"vaguely folky". he played at woodstock and covered Bob Dylan, that's folky enough for me.

shitloads of ppl played at woodstock, is sly and the family stone folky? santana? shitloads of ppl covered bob dylan too.

Sha Na Na were mad folky tbf

I can't tell which of you are kidding anymore.

okay, sorry, Jimi Hendrix is not vaguely folky enough to fall under the umbrella term "vaguely folky."

i only used that term to try to zero in on exactly what whoever i was quoting meant when they used the term singer-songwriter.

b/c Michael Jackson is a more famous person who sang and wrote songs than Bob Dylan.

lol this is 1 of the best ilm threadz in some time

p.s. Bob Dylan can suk a dick, Kate Bush is the ruler of all music.

guys guys lets just all go back to making fun of tuomas

I think you're right, but fame is pretty much impossible to quantify, no? You kind of need to be omniscient to know how famous someone is in different contexts throughout time and around the world.

xp (I mean, I'm sure Dylan can suck a dick, but I meant you're right about MJ)

i thought the "what's a tournament" thing was way worse than any of tuomas's opinions on dylan

and michael jackson wasn't in this but so much boring rawk was? fuck these choices

yeah, would've voted Michael Jackson over most of these.

xp to elephant rob, i am omniscient, so there you go.

the real mistake was not including taylor swift

Michael Jackson was a crepe who lied to people for sex.

xpost
as karl can tell you, Taylor is more famous than the concept of divinity and would really have
fucked this poll up

I don't even want to know what's in the Michael Jackson crepe

xpost

would definitely have voted for crepes over anyone else in this poll.

if bob dylan did suk a dick it would be so fuckin poetic and probably win the nobel prize, then rolling stone would give the bj 5 stars

I would probably subscribe to mojo if that happened.

blojo

indeed

they wouldn't cover it until the 20th anniversary of the bob dylan bj but when they did it would be pretty in depth

lol

this is on their website right now: "FREE CD! BOSS SOUNDS! They’re the songs Springsteen comes on to, night after night, all over the world."

wow

...

Better, I suppose, than the songs Springsteen comes to, night after night, all over the world.

he comes both on the songs, and to them.

I interpreted it like karl, who is after all omniscient!

springsteen's jizz contains multitudes

and bob dylan can really suck a dick. i know this due to my omniscience, not experience.

bob dylan bjs mad overrated on ILM imo

and i mean come on for the purposes of this showdown i would say its pretty clear that bob couldn't hold a candle to the pole smoking skills of mssrs mccarney and starr

I think Karl is right: Bob Dylan is not the most famous singer-songwriter of the 20th century. If you stopped random people on the street, I bet most of them couldn't sing a single tune by Dylan, but most of them could probably sing something by Madonna or Michael Jackson.

lol u lose ur bet

i would make that bet but i dont want to win a bunch of your silly finland money, it probably has rainbows and pictures of the Rednex all over it.

i wonder, i know really nothing about chinese popular music, but is there like a super iconic old school superstar like say "the elvis of china" or something? maybe this possibly fictional person could be the most popular in the world?

Michael Jackson's estimated worldwide record sales are 5 times bigger than Bob Dylan's. You seriously think random people would better recognize Dylan's tunes than Jackson's?

(x-post)

tbh, record sales doesn't necessarily mean anything in this context. As just one example, there have been a lot of Dylan covers, so people can recognize his songs without having bought an album.

not a bob dylan concert

hmmm....looked it up on wiki and it says "down in the groove" sold 24.5 million copies worldwide

lol Tuomas, YOU know "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" and THAT'S a Dylan song

stfu

i think even more people would recognize that "All-Star" song but that doesn't mean Smash Mouth should be in this poll

tbh, record sales doesn't necessarily mean anything in this context. As just one example, there have been a lot of Dylan covers, so people can recognize his songs without having bought an album.

Sure, but Michael Jackson's songs are even more ubiquitous. I've never owned an MJ album, but I could easily recognize about 40 different songs by him.

xp to Karl
I didn't know MJ toured as part of the Sprockets Revue

dude people do not think of michael jackson as a "singer/songwriter" is the point you are working so hard to miss here.

ie, ask those same people who wrote "beat it" and most of them would say "i dont know probably some guy in LA who made mad money off of it".

i can't tell you how many times i've heard classmates, college professors, and the general populace quoting the immortal words: "you're a vegetable, you're a vegetable, and i hate you"

dude people do not think of michael jackson as a "singer/songwriter" is the point you are working so hard to miss here.

He sang and he wrote songs. How is he not a "singer/songwriter"?

xp
yeah, like I said up thread, imo MJ is likely more globally popular than BD, but I don't think people can make those kinds of assertions with much conviction. Like sh@kedown, I have no idea who is popular in China. Most Americans have never heard of Oum Kalsoum or Lata Mangeshkar or etc. Though I kind of forget why we're comparing them at this point...

MOST PEOPLE ASSUME THAT POP STARS DO NOT WRITE THEIR SONGS this is not fucking rocket science. xpost

putting it another way if you asked random peeps on the street if MJ was a "pop star" or "singer/songwriter" guess which they would choose

way back in high school i had multiple english teachers who had us listen to / analyze dylan songs, i guess as sort of a way to engage the class by pointing out that hey music lyrics can be literary too

dylan's the only musician they ever did this with though and i can't imagine too many others getting the same treatment

Wait, did Michael Jackson write his own shit? I always thought it was Quincey.

i had a high school english teacher have us analyze Battlestar Galactica and Dark City

MOST PEOPLE ASSUME THAT POP STARS DO NOT WRITE THEIR SONGS this is not fucking rocket science. xpost

How do you know that? I'd say most people assume the exact opposite. Anyway, why would calling someone a "singer/songwriter" be based on what most people assume and not, um, the facts?

Was very upset to find out most rock stars aren't carved out of rock.

because there is a specific connotation to singer/songwriter that goes beyond what yer talking about, which is pretty much defined by a genesis in the folk idiom. xpost

MJ was made out of Pop Rocks.

dylan's the only musician they ever did this with though and i can't imagine too many others getting the same treatment

surely this is at least partially due to boomer Dylan worship though right? I mean have any of you ever read Tarantula? ugh...and I like Dylan

Pop Rocks + Jesus Juice = Foaming Mess

"Famous singer/songwriter James Hetfield will be appearing with his hot rock combo the Metallica this weekend at the Target Center."

chronicles fucking rules, he's a great writer now

The point, way the hell back there, is that more bits of Dylan's phrasing have entered the lexicon than any other rock-identified songwriter's, and that's true, not whether or not he was more famous than fucking Michael Jackson I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY SUCKED ME IN AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH

ie, ask those same people who wrote "beat it" and most of them would say "i dont know probably some guy in LA who made mad money off of it".

― t( :D t) (jjjusten), Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:08 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

don't think this is true at all. i'd guess that even most americans would figure MJ for the author of his hits. and tuomas otm overall. the idea that dylan is a more well known, well-heard or a more musically relevant figure worldwide is just crazy.

because there is a specific connotation to singer/songwriter that goes beyond what yer talking about, which is pretty much defined by a genesis in the folk idiom. xpost

Okay, but according to Wikipedia Elton John, for example, has sold over 3 times more records than Dylan. He's certainly a singer/songwriter according to the rockist definition of the word, and he's more famous/recognizable than Dylan too.

Elton John is famous for subcontracting his lyrics out.

xp to Matos
more than James Brown?
actually, I have no fucking idea how to figure out who has had more lyrics enter the lexicon

don't think this is true at all. i'd guess that even most americans would figure MJ for the author of his hits

uh i actually had to look up the fact that he wrote beat it and a bunch of other famous shit actually

dont think twice, its alright (lol xp)

And if someone is quoted on English classes, that might be proof that he's more famous among the intelligentsia/academic elite, but it's no proof that he's more famous per se.

iirc the thing that was absurd about the Bob Dylan lyrical genius hyperbole was comparing him to Shakespeare

omg ppl quote bob dylan he's like shakespeare

TO TUOMAS

http://www.eltonjohn.no/images/bernie_taupin.jpg

respect my conglomerate.

don't think this is true at all. i'd guess that even most americans would figure MJ for the author of his hits

uh i actually had to look up the fact that he wrote beat it and a bunch of other famous shit actually

And obviously you're the most representative American of them all...?

Where is the eloquent sanity of Tim Ellison when you need it most?

http://205.188.238.181/time/time100/index_2000_time100.html

if you limit your consideration to "rock identified" artists and define singer/songwriter by it's use to describe a trend in US/UK folk-influenced music, then sure, dylan's yr man. otherwise, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_dylan#Legacy

the thing that was absurd about the Bob Dylan lyrical genius hyperbole was comparing him to Shakespeare

Perhaps I should've included the winky eye emoticon?

uh i actually had to look up the fact that he wrote beat it and a bunch of other famous shit actually

yeah, i don't see what this has to do with anything

tuomas i am willing to chalk this up to a cultural misunderstanding about the specific connotations of the term "singer/songwriter" in at least america if you agree to shut the fuck up about it.

xpost dude i am a guy who spends a lot of time around music and i am admitting my ignorance, i think that speaks a little bit against the idea that most americans assume that pop peeps write their own shit, we have a long tradition of that NOT being the case after all.

Dan: the claim was that Dylan is "most famous", not "most influential". They're two different things (though I wouldn't call him most influential either).

just realized I missed the opportunity to make a "Blowin' in the Wind" joke up thread w/r/t blojo :(

sad eyed bj of the hoelands

Perhaps I should've included the winky eye emoticon?

― Johnny Fever

too late now. see what you did? is this what you wanted?!

I think he meant Robbie Shakespeare anyway.

He meant Trip Shakespeare.

tuoolmaster of helsinki

I am so glad someone else made a Trip Shakespeare joke, I don't know how long I could have held out

Why wasn't Trip Shakespeare in this tournament?!

worried about semisonic fans forcing a runoff vote

At first I thought 'huh?' And then I figured out I was confusing Trip Shakespeare with The Tragically Hip in my mind.

I'm Johnny Fever. Secret Canadian.

As long as your not Secretly Canadian.

thanks for reissuing swell maps johnny fever!

these threads are confusing. what are we arguing about here? whether bob dylan gave better BJs than MJ?

essentially

no wait, I'm wrong, who gave more BJs to random people on the street and high-school English teachers?

bob dylan's bjs made people think. MJ's made people DANCE.

Where's that Bob Dylan & Kurtis Blow youtube when you need it to bring this all back around?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBCq8XDgrP0

why I didn't include jacko btw, thought about it:

STEVIE WONDER v PRINCE v MICHAEL JACKSON
Battle of the 80s icons: Jacko/Prince/Madge

think of how much more awful and interminable these arguments would be if he was actually in the running tho! which afaik is kind of an ILM pedantic goal

just for the record Michael Jackson didn't write jackshit - you can count the decent tunes he wrote by himself on like one hand (one of them is Billie Jean)

madonna lost 3-1 to the beatles and MJ couldn't get more votes than her in a poll done when tons of people were mourning him. he woulda been on the list of 64 and considering that this went pretty well maybe I shoulda gone w/64 - but cmon, the final 8 would look more or less the same and that was one of the reasons I didn't. hell, considering how well classic rock is doing, the people who most deserve to complain are neil young fans.

HEY WHERE'S NEIL YOUNG

ON A RANCH IN CALIFORNIA

neil young wouldn't win in a basketball game against anybody, i don't think. he might win in curling.

i don't know, dude it pretty tall.

yeah I would've voted Neil over a bunch of these people

oh you would have, SHAKEY?

NAME NAMES

I would have voted him over any of them tbh.

Would have voted Nurse With Wound over most of these.

Michael Jackson didn't write a goddamned thing (except for one of the best songs of the 80s)

would take neil over none of these

would take neil over MJ

NAME NAMES

haha allright get ready for the SMACKDOWN. Would've voted Neil over:

Biggie
Stevie Wonder
ABBA
Joy Division/New Order
Madonna
H&O
The Smiths
The Fall
The Stooges
Al Green
probably Eno
the Cure
Public Enemy
fucking Radiohead
Fleetwood Mac

didn't write a goddamned thing (except for one of the best songs of the 80s)

you can say this about a hell of a lot of people, y'know

for the record, MJ did cover Dylan's "Come Together", so Tuomas isn't so far off the truth.

I thought that was a Primal Scream song?

I think MJ wrote "Ebony and Ivory" for the beatles iirc in exchange for John Lennon penning "The Girl is Mine" for his album

im guessing it's gonna be can v. prince in the end

I'm hoping Can v. Eno to make the maximum number of people pissed off.

MJ couldn't get more votes than [Madonna] in a poll done when tons of people were mourning him.

fuck the world imo

Neil wrote "Hurricane" about Bob Dylan. fyi

yeah but Michael Jackson wrote "Like A Hurricane" for Mike Tyson iirc

neil wrote "forever young" about MJ, too, iirc.

tuomas helped me break my dylan/beatles deadlock

so can/dylan/velvets/eno

would have voted PIZZA over most of these fwiw

pizza is def a #1 seed in the upcoming food tournament

honestly if there was a bracketed food tourney on ILX there would be BLOOD IN THE STREETS

Blood would be blowin' in the wind.

That's a Michael Jackson reference btw

yeah ilx food debates are actually more clusterfucky than music

imagine you were posting from your iPhone while travelling by train! there would be blood on the tracks.

Dylan wrote "Pizza On the Dancefloor" for Prince iirc

are any of princes "bonnie prince billy" sideprojects available in europe? because i think that might change t's attitude about dylans influence level tbh

We only had Bonnie Tyler, the project he did with the Aerosmith dude.

Prince's Paisley Brothers side project, too

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

oh plz oh plz let there be a food tournament over on ILE.

otm

Full field of 64 imho

pizza
burritos
tacos
sushi

bbq pork
bbq beef
hot dogs
waffles
oatmeal
cookies
pies
cakes
ice cream

oatmeal is canon food?

I think it was mentioned in a comfort foods thread...?

oatmeal can suk a dick

gotta have kale up there so the NNs can vote for something

we must divide pizza into thin-crust and deep pan

I dunno if oatmeal is canon or not, but it's the Velvet Underground of food.

we must divide pizza into thin-crust and deep pan

― Anti-Suggest Ban Order (acoleuthic),

splitting the pizza vote will guarantee early exit, riots

exactly! and then seafood or olives can romp to victory

haha olives are going to fail miserably and I will be all 'gnaaaaa' at ILX

Pizza styles much be kept on opposing sides of the bracket to preserve their chances of advancing deep into the competition.

More:

Strawberries
Apples
Bananas
Peaches
Grapes
Oranges

olives aren't a complete meal though, unlike pizza or tacos or cookies

also if 'a plate of linguine' and 'a taco' meet in combat, there WILL be blood

never fucking forget italian food versus mexican food

ok let's leave the music to the music nerds and the food to the food nerds

Nom Nom Nominations for the ILE Food Fight (64-player bracketed tourney)

can we have a favorite type of poll poll

--music
--food
--films
--five other random categories that nobody'll vote for

ha yes TMI poll would die sadly + quickly

as a subcategory of likable polls

on the music vs. food vs. films vs. w/e poll I will still be voting for whatever the sex option is

poll of polls

music
food
film
sports
weed
politics
the internet
doin' it

weed vs. doin it in final battle to the death

poll of polls

music
food
film
sports
weed
politics
the internet
doin' it

i think i just witnessed the void

if the internet doesn't win, everyone's a liar

lol, iatee otm

heh

But you can have music, film, sports, politics and even doin' it (or so I've heard) on the internet!!

I'd still choose old school doin' it, though.

never change

I dunno if oatmeal is canon or not, but it's the Velvet Underground of food.

It's true - everyone who had a bowl started a restaurant.

Following up on my observations about Eno on the other thread, I just realized that unlike everyone else in this poll, he had virtually no singles. I had mentioned - as one of my reasons for not knowing much about him - that he didn't get a lot of radio play. Well, there you go. Although, then you have someone like the Fall who have a ton of singles and are also pretty much unknowns due to no radio play. I don't know where I'm going with this exactly. Just want to put it out there.

If the dude is best known for ambient music, is it a big surprise that he has no singles? Ambient has got to be one of the lest single-oriented genres there are.

his most omnipresent solo material:
- Windows startup theme
- An Ending (Ascent) (I feel like I hear this in movies/tv a decent amount?)

listening to eno all morning. I can understand the desire to vote for prince. he's a better singer, a better songwriter and a better musician. but he didn't create 'spinning away' or 'spider and I' which means this isn't even close.

So basically you're voting for Prince.

'spinning away' > entire prince discography

yeah... no

I hate you mom

enjoying the thought that DP's DN is referring to iatee's pooping habits

omg

Use this thread to judge other people for their fetishes

i like prince and i won't be mad if he wins but another green world and on land are 2 of my favorite albums so there's no way i'm voting for him here

i'll take him over VU in the next round if it comes to that (it will come to that)

I meant in light of being his mom but w/e call me a deviant I've seen off worse

(poops on lj)

I meant in light of being his mom

you realize you're making it worse, right

last call for votes

is that from "Lily, Rosemary ,and the Jack of Hearts"?

no but '(poops on lj)' is from an obscure dylan song

revving up my infuriated indignation engines

Vroom Vroom!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

predictable

oh man the stones are losing hard in the semis

The Rolling Stones - 87
Can - 66

The Beatles - 92
Bob Dylan - 61

The Velvet Underground - 101
Stevie Wonder - 52

Prince - 84
Brian Eno - 69

VU fans are the worst imo

75% YES 25% NOOOOOOOO

xpost hahaha yep deej otm that would be my 25%

VU beating Stevie Wonder is just vandalism. Where are your ears???!

still lollin @ jordan "whose version of 'holiday'?" sargent fronting like hes a stevie expert itt

As I suspected a while back, this is all coming down to a Beatles vs. Prince final.

VU beating Stevie Wonder is just vandalism. Where are your ears???!

my ears work fine thanx. stevie wonder is good but I voted velvets.

eno rip

Shit dude. More knuckleheads chose VU than the Beatles.

If the Beatles are pizza, then VU must be cheese breadsticks according to ILM.

at least the can reign of terror is over

0/4 this round. Stevie hurts the most.

Starting to hate the Velvet Underground. OH, WE'RE SO TRANSGRESSIVE!

well they actually were

It doesn't impress me either way.

http://www.terrynorm.ic24.net/photo%20john%20cale3.jpg

john cale: hey some guy on the internet is gonna be 'not impressed' with us 40 years from now
lou reed: wtf
moe tucker: omg
sterling morrison: lol
nico: ;_;

fuck a pair of ears, do you savages have HEARTS?

I mean FUCK YALL YOU KNOCKED OUT MY FAVORITE MUSICIAN

I'm sorry this is just blowing my mind that this many ppl would rep for VU over Stevie

lou reed: ;_;

I'm taking my guillotine out of storage.

HEY VELVET UNDERGROUND, FUCK YOUR TRANSGRESSION!

I actually do like the Velvet Underground, just not when they win an ILM poll against Stevie Wonder. I also think they were mostly a bad influence musically. So many horrid rock bands can be traced back to VU.

^^^on green

yeah i think VU were great but cmon its stevie fuckin wonder.

i actually would vote VU over public enemy no joke. but this is ridiculous

i actually would vote VU over public enemy no joke.

o_O

(tbc not o_Oing and anyone saying that, just deej specifically, i reserve my universal sideeye for ppl picking them over stevie)

universal sideeye

:D

I agree that VU getting twice as much votes as Stevie Wonder is ridiculous. I guess this is part of the "rawk-leaning" mindstate that I just never can understand.

yeah it's ridiculous

i'm still pissed off about biggie losing

if VU actually does beat stevie, it's a fucking crime. and i'm about as "rawk-leaning" as you can get w/out falling over.

and i love the velvet underground, but jeezis...

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

everything else is fine with me. prince should beat eno, as the beatles should trounce dylan. happy with however stones vs can falls out.

yeah, but isn't this just the warmup version? ditched only to be reborn cuz voting time was accidentally set too short?

duh, wtf am i thinking?!? it was the initial version of the final four that got fucked up. and these are the only 25% depressing final results. hokay.

I'm sorry this is just blowing my mind that this many ppl would rep for VU over Stevie

Did you forget what board this is???

like seriously, the shocking thing here isn't Stevie losing, it's Prince winning!

Blimey, that happened quickly - totally missed it. Would have gone Can, Beatles, Stevie, Eno. Good job it wasn't close. But this is the first time I've ever been annoyed with the Velvet Underground.

Prince beating Eno isn't shocking at all

Underappreciated Stevie is crying himself to sleep on a bed of Grammys right now

noone actually thinks any of these artists is underappreciated in any way. but Stevie is up there with the Beatles as one of those few artists that you can barely ever compare unfavorably to anyone else.

Well he lost to the godfathers of indie rock, so hey

Beatles, Stones, Velvets... this is all getting a bit Rolling Stone for my tastes (and I like the Beatles and Velvets, but ILM, for fuck's sake!)...

ilxor head over to the Final Four thread. The proper term is lolMOJO

i think we could probably do another thing like this sometime with all contemporary and/or more cult artists and just avoid any canonical superstar acts. because i mean who knows, Can coulda won this thing if people like the Beatles weren't also in play.

but Can's victory would've been so much sweeter if they had won over the Beatles

i should listen to innervisions again see if it takes, i always get kinda bored tbh

FWIW I have heard just as much bad music influenced by Stevie Wonder as I have bad music influenced by the Velvet Underground

re: Dylan and rap

Ice-T finally landed a deal with a major label Sire Records. When label founder and president Seymour Stein heard his demo, he said, “He sounds like Bob Dylan.”

FWIW I have heard just as much bad music influenced by Stevie Wonder as I have bad music influenced by the Velvet Underground

― chuck entertainment cheese (crüt), Friday, July 23, 2010 11:40 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stop trying to justify yrself

lol actually for crut it makes sense at least, im more like o_O at R&B thread regs like j0rdan being more into the VU

so yr argument is that historically there are more bad indie bands than bad R&B acts

Did you forget what board this is???

― FUCK YOU I'M BLACK (HI DERE), Friday, July 23, 2010 6:39 AM Bookmark

i honestly didn't know ilm was that hard on vu's jock, but then i wouldn't really read any threads about them

i should listen to innervisions again see if it takes, i always get kinda bored tbh

― my dream is to own a fly casino (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, July 23, 2010 9:23 Suggest Ban Permalink
AM Bookmark

innervisions is top 5 albums ever imo