Robert Christgau - Ima'murrican, Gawdammit!

A) Lots and lots of space, but a common national identity modulated just enough by regional differences to allow for local evolutions that emerge as influxes of originality on a national pop (read: MTV) scale.

and

B) Hella local markets (yees, the vile paws of capitalism) meaning DIVERSIFICATION of culture (ie: not Radio1, Radio2, etc.)(also, will someone please give me some idea of the impact of pirate radio stations on brit pop music? I've got the picture that it's rather large, but sometimes feel like that's mistaken); BUT, before you start hating me, note that the monopolization in progress by the (EVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL!!!!!!) Clear Channel completely offsets this benefit (so capitalism w/o regulation is still bad! HA!

hahahahahahahaha

But Hispanic music is, in many forms anyway, deeply African- influenced, so there it is again, interestingly enough. Clave is almost certainly derived from Africa, but beyond that there are the rhythms of various African religions in the new world which find their way, more or less intact, into salsa, etc. What little bit of Colombian folkloric dancing I have seen and participated in felt very close to what I did a long time ago in African dance class.

Not that I'm an Afrocentrist.

As for Christgau's overall point, I don't feel I know enough to say, but I have my doubts.

don't know enough but I must comment. first of all he can have his 'US pop is superior' argument since pop isn't really music (heh) but also who is going to be the first one on this thread to make a distiction between pop and hip-hop. Surely hip-hop isn't just 'pop'.

you cannot equate the two statements above as I have never said that hip-hop is a sign of vulgarity. Nor that jazz or avant-garde, etc. is 'better' than hip-hop and so I must conclude you're full of shit.

''julio, isn't there a thread about skronking saxophones you need to get to?''

which is where I belong, no? sorry but I'd rather argue with ppl on pop threads. i'll stick around for a while and have my fun...

hip-hop = legitimate ergo hip-hop /= 'pop'

rockist?

but even if you accept his dated premise, he might be right about film & food but when it comes to music (& lit?), americans of chritigau's ilk look down their noses at euro "vulgarity" all the time: e.g. the Brits and their hype-happy weekly music press, those trashy euro techno remakes of hit songs, those naiive euro rock bands who ape the authentic rock of the colonies, the eurovision contest, etc. When Americans say an american music act is "big in Europe", it is practically synonymous for "they're inauthentic, gimmicky, & known as frauds or has-beens at home". (NB: just outlining some common cliches about euro pop culture, not my own). It could be argued that a lot of the basic tenets of rockism have been propagated by The Dean & his generation of critics as a defense mechanism/backlash against America's perceived vulgarity in Euro eyes.

Really though, he didn't say much, did he?

He might not have said much, but he did say it calmly and with grace (and humor), so why not?

http://www.calendarlive.com/music/hilburn/cl-ask-hilburn.storygallery

"I understand that you were a big fan of Throbbing Gristle some twenty years ago or so, though apparently a number of people who turned up at a show you recommended had real problems with it! Could you explain your memories of the show, and what you think about the various bands that came from that group, like Coil and Psychic TV?"

So let's see if he answers.

It's a very good question! But it requires a live chat scenario.

"Beer. They have good beer."

"How-bad-American-beer-is thing..."

we already are!

I won't say that this "cultural war" Christgau speaks of doesn't exist (maybe it does in some highbrow non-pop culture circles that I have no access to, in which case, why talk about it on rockcritics.com?), but I sure as hell have never seen any evidence of it- far as I'm concerned, the USA won that one long before I was born, as I most certainly do not know any European under the age of 60 whose grasp on pop culture isn't irrevocably American, from tv shows to movies to music. Whatever snoobish attitudes we may have about the stereotypes of American behaviour (partly self defence in the face of our increasing redundancy, partly stereotypes instilled into us by American media, ha!), there is nary a Brit, Frenchman, German or Italian that is not totally in love with at least one piece of American produced art/entertainment.

Furthermore, no one who listens to any sort of popular music today can rightfully claim *not* to be America's bitch (so to speak), and no one with a decent grasp on where the stuff comes from would be able to discard the truth that it is overwhelmingly an African thing.

As a kid who's (ahem) been around (lived in Germany and Portugal, have friends in Italy, England and Sweden), I can truthfully say that European snobbism of America exists, but pop culture is the one facet where it most certainly does NOT have any impact whatsoever.

Thank You.
This has been a public service announcement from the Commitee for People Sick of Seeing what Looks Like a Greasy Badger Nesting in Peoples Underarms.

And don't forget killer instinct.

...and everywhere else, no? If someone's sufficiently out of touch to doubt the validity of pop culture as, uh, culture, why would they be any kinder to The Sugarbabes or The Smiths than Shania Twain or Pavement? High Culture Vs. Pop Culture != Europe Vs. U.S.A. Most of us Europeans are perfectly happy with the existence of pop culture, and America has just as many idiotic cultural elitists as any other country.

even in lowbrow circles you have people attacking America specifically for the vulgarity of its pop culture (ahem, toraneko).

Are we talkin' about that Our Pop Stars Dress Way Too Revealingly thang or some other debate that I'm not aware of? Because if it's the former, I don't think toraneko's complaint was aimed at America especifically, or at least it needn't have been, since there's plenty of skin and raunch from non American Pop stars (Kylie Mingogue's "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" and both Holly Vallance clips come to mind.)

Consideration of the 'origins' of cultural forms aren't very useful anyway because they end up with a Europe=high America=low axis which simply doesn't explain anything about the way Americans and Europeans live, act or consume. (And has been irrelevant as a yardstick of 'superiority' since Henry James and the Beatles respectively (at least)). But also saying "it is all based on American stuff" doesn't explain why walking around a European city, or going out in Europe, or listening to radio in Europe (mostly continental Europe, not the UK) feels I would imagine very different from doing the same in the US.

America: A plucky little nation fighting its corner against the massed hordes of Euro-elitists that dominate cultural discourse...

America and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyAmerica and Europe are at war culturallyU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edgeU.S. maintains an undeniable musical edge

keep trying

ban gabbneb

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-07-31%2007.36.52%20-0700/Image-C297DB7401CF11DA.jpg

lawyers in love

This is THE THREAD for posting MY BRILLIANT INSIGHTS: Nude Spock, Scaredy Cat (and other names I've gone by)

the queen is head of the heroin trade (©lyndon larouche)

haaha

You see I think the issue is that some pop culture is great art made by people with immense talent, and other pop culture is just big corporations flogging product.

Pop culture incorporates Leonard Bernstein and Miles Davis. But it also incorporates MacDonalds and Starbucks.

The latter and their ilk are the more visible and ubiquitous examples of American culture for most of the world, so they become the shorthand signifiers.

America is therefore most associated in the global mind with a sort of egalitarian, democratic mediocrity. A friendly, efficient lack of quality.

Polyglot african influences in music are all very well, but they aren't going to overcome the grinning gimp that is Ronald McDonald.

zzzzzzOh! Huh?! Were you saying something?

In Xgau's remarks it's easy to see need to assert one's cultural superiority by reference to other cultures one's own culture has absorbed through slavery and mistreatment. So far, in Australia, we don't hear the parallel argument that Australian art is superior to Europe's due to its absorption of indigenous painting techniques. Perhaps that day is not so far away.

More generally, the idea that one culture's musical techniques are to be preferred over another's due to that culture's particular ethnic mix is impossible to justify on logical grounds. Really, it is a view motivated by insecurity: it is the upside-down mirror image of the assertion of cultural supremacy through ethnic purity, and probably comes from the same place, and the same kind of person, to be very frank. It is an attempt to save the notion of cultural supremacy by ingesting a pseudo-pluralistic cultural philosophy. The attempt is profoundly self-contradictory.

"America is therefore most associated in the global mind with a sort of egalitarian, democratic mediocrity."

Hi dere, De Tocqueville.

Actually, it seems insane to identify hip-hop as an example of American cultural supremacy when its message, both consciously and unconsciously, seems to be that America is greedy, ghettoised, violent and rascist.

Maybe the most successful American cultural exports are those that reinforce the prejudices of the anti-Americans. Maybe that's part of their appeal.

ned & bob plot American cultural conquest of known universe
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/227/470174589_2256c84725.jpg?v=0

SAMBA

We had to start somewhere.

made up name.

BTW that is Alfred Soto's flat-capped head in the front of the shot.

http://www.nogw.com/images/illuminati1.jpg

i honestly couldn't think of one reason why i would introduce myself to xgau. so i didn't. but i'm not a people person like ned. ned is a master of ceremonies.

BTW that is Alfred Soto's flat-capped head in the front of the shot.

Oy. That conversation...

oh right! forgot about that.

I hadn't talked to Xgau at all that weekend until said party, then I just ended up sitting with that bunch for a bit. We were talking at one point, I introduced myself and he said something like, "Oh yeah, I've heard of you." I was amused.

ned is a master of ceremonies.

I just like going around saying, "Hi!" Gotta start somewhere!

I have met neither Mr Raggett, nor Mr Christgau :-(

WELL JEEZ

Ned Raggett appeared to me in a dream last night

http://www.moshereiss.org/messenger/06_moses/friberg_mosesandburningbush.jpg

area bush

Ned Raggett appeared to me in a dream last night

Nightmare fuel by default.

i want to meet ned

i honestly couldn't think of one reason why i would introduce myself to xgau. so i didn't. but i'm not a people person like ned. ned is a master of ceremonies.

-- scott seward, Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:51 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Link

I introduced myself to xgau at said party, but couldn't find a reason to actually conversate with him, so we shook hands and that was basically it.

This thread reminds me of this clusterfuck that I read through last night: http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?action=showall&boardid=41&threadid=24285

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/review/anti-rockisms-hall-of-fame/

Discussing Bob Stanley's book. From July 2014

The Consumer Guide lives on! Thanks Medium.com

Thanks. That crystallizes some of my own feelings about Stanley's book. I can see a few differences between the UK and US edition (supposedley 100 pages shorter) from that though - my copy mentions both Mungo Jerry and Van Halen.

(xpost) Not sure what that means...Has it been resurrected somewhere?

it will be, apparently:

http://recode.net/2014/08/20/next-up-on-mediums-list-a-music-magazine/

Genuinely surprised--I thought he would have had enough after the latest break. If he still enjoys it, all power to him.

it does surprise me that he's still interested in doing the column, since he seems to have become pretty curmudgeonly of late

the intro is up. reviews will be every friday.

https://medium.com/cuepoint/robert-christgau-expert-witness-299c3329fb6f

Never any question he'd continue -- he took time off to finish his memoir.

"One reason I’m good at grading records is that I’d rather be right than first. . .This was unusual even in the print era, and online it’s simply not done—except by me."

I mean... sure? It's great that he's kept at his career, and obviously I respect his work. But I can tell you that there are a lot of younger critics who would love to have the opportunity to be "right" instead of "First," but who aren't in the position to be paid handsome sums by tech companies to do so, and a lot of the reasoning for that is simply because they're younger.

there are a lot of older critics who aren't in the position to be paid handsome sums by tech companies

i was including people my age in that "younger," but sure

idk this is like, one old dude gets a job because he has a well-known brand, the job will go away soon enough because this company actually makes no money...the most famous music critic in america can sometimes get a job, for a while, doesn't seem like something to be resentful about

in the context of a site that seems to exist for the sole purpose of taking music writing back to where it was 15 years ago, saying 'i do this and nobody else does' without wondering why (or knowing why, but not saying it outright) seems disingenuous if not churlish. if anyone else was making outlandish claims like this there would be a lot more backlash.

i'm a big fan of xgau in the sense that I can't imagine another person his age I'd want to read a sentence about Drake on (who'd bother), but honestly shit like

One reason I’m good at grading records is that I’d rather be right than first. Not right for everybody, of course— tastes differ, and should. Just for me, which is hard enough. This was unusual even in the print era, and online it’s simply not done—except by me.

would be corny, semi-unintentionally hilarious bravado even if i did want people "grading records," which i don't. i mean ooooh he's able to take the time to decide that the new york dolls album is his favorite of the year. if that doesn't earn a jerk off motion what does.

christgau is by far the least objectionable part of this site come on

4chan kids will prolly be running web 3.0 in 7 to 10 years, and they only care about xgau, scaruffi and fantano,

you've finally lost it

i'm mostly annoyed that in the last few months i've read two "hi, i'm cool rockin' grandpa i been saying an album is a b+ since your parents were in shortpants and i ain't stoppin now" introductions for two web sites from him and just about as many actual articles

like is there ANYONE who reads one of these who doesn't already know xgau who says "oh baby this guy sounds like a real champ i better buckle up and press follow"

i think we've established that 90% of people who write for the web write in a condescending way that assumes everyone who is clicking is a lost babe in the woods discovering a POP CULTCHA traet via a writer's breathless recap

"oh man i wish MY grandpa would tell me the latest heard-by-no-one protest song and heard-by-everyone bubblegum hook to float his boat"

Not that I think Xgau does this, but I can see why an editor would want to stress that

(xpost)

especially an editor for a 100% web mag

most egregious case i can remember of xgau trumpeting his ability to sit patiently for the truth to come to light...before admitting his take can change a year later just like anyone else

When Murray Street came out in 2002, non-old Amy Phillips notoriously asserted in this very newspaper that since Sonic Youth hadn't made a good album since (1995's) Washing Machine, they should break up already. Who's to say her opinion isn't worth as much as mine? Me? Well, yeah. One concept the non-old have trouble getting their minds around is the difference between taste and judgment. It's fine not to like almost anything, except maybe Al Green. That's taste, yours to do with as you please, critical deployment included. By comparison, judgment requires serious psychological calisthenics. But the fact that objectivity only comes naturally in math doesn't mean it can't be approximated in art.

...

Another objectivity aid is consensus, as indicated by record guides, online compendia, and of course critics polls. These establish that Murray Street is well liked, A Thousand Leaves and Sonic Nurse only a little less so. The dud by acclamation (perhaps even the "bad album" whose existence I deny) is NYC Ghosts, which Phillips acknowledges as the true inspiration for her kill-yr-idols hissy fit. Granted an excuse to replay every Sonic Youth album I own, I've found these judgments justifiable. Murray's song-soundscape fusion, which at the time I didn't quite get, sounded strong, while NYC Ghosts, whose meanderings had captivated me in their ambiently environmental way, never fully reconnected. Leaves, long my eccentric fave, proved marginally less entrancing as it sopped up its 74 minutes under lyric-parsing scrutiny. I'm disappointed in myself--I take pride in knowing when I've reconciled taste and judgment, and don't often get records wrong. But I still think the consensus is too extreme--and probably, given the way these things go, reactive, pumping Murray Street to make up for dismissing NYC Ghosts.

personally i take from this that maybe critics should accept their subjectivity and put their pride in being able to describe something in a universally comprehensible and enjoyable if not revelatory manner rather than judging its value accurately. but as the guy who popularized putting a grade next to a paragraph he's got a horse in that race.

a funny thing about all this is that the Consumer Guide started as a JOKE - dude felt the late 60s could use a reminder that all these amazing emblems of the counterculture were also capitalist product and could be judged the same way you would a toaster, especially since there were so damn many of them. but a good joke became a good gig and now he's apparently the only guy who really takes the time to judge an album like a toaster accurately.

to be clear, the guy's a formative influence on my taste and writing style, a formative influence on other formative influences, and i'm bummed every time it looks like i won't have access to his quick takes anymore. but that's not to say i think everyone should be like him or get to be.

and could be judged the same way you would a toaster

I remember he gave the Kinks' mediocre Everybody's In Show-Biz a B+ because the live disc was only an extra dollar.

a site that seems to exist for the sole purpose of taking music writing back to where it was 15 years ago

explain please

xpost and every album that clocked in under a half-hour was docked a notch. I think it's great that he notices shit like that, that an album's practical values and failings are part of his assessment. It's information the consumer could use and underscores that most critics don't really appreciate the difference between their listening experience and the reader's.

so far it's a bunch of dudes making proclamations about miles davis' coolness and snickering about britney spears. also mark ronson, because why not.

i just can't take a place that tells you how many minutes it will take to read the article seriously

(xposts) He was also attentive to things like compilations reshuffling previous compilations in an inferior or redundant way. So a Hendrix or Rolling Stones or whoever compilation filled with mostly great songs could get a mediocre grade.

What if I want to read an article frivolously? Does it show the time for that?

xp

it's kind of appropriate for xgau to be on a webzine that wants to be on the cutting edge of being old

"you love music...the good stuff...duran duran...miles davis...and you totally understand how to use your ipad...you want cuepoint"

snickering about britney spears

I can't forgive them for this

He's writing for Billboard too:

Anyone wondering how that guy who grades albums like a damn college professor got a column in the bible of the music business should consider one factoid. At 72, that guy has been covering what we'll call rock and roll longer than anyone in America: 47 years, and not bored for five minutes running unless you count three to four hundred terrible opening acts.

http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/indies/6157622/pop-art-by-robert-christgau-in-it-for-the-art

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/6228957/robert-christgau-get-on-up-james-brown

So...

Jason Derulo: Talk Dirty
(Warner Bros.)

If I promise I won’t quote myself again for a year will you let me remind you that Derulo’s specialty is “pragmatically carnal sex so mind-blowing that three times he proposes matrimony behind it”? I can’t resist, because beyond how he was a songwriter before he was a songsinger, that’s all I came in knowing about Derulo except the Ian Nieman “club mix” of “Ridin’ Solo” I put on my singles list in 2010. (Whaddaya mean, who’s he? That Ian Nieman.) The median number of songwriters on these 11 tracks is five, and almost every one of the 11 keeps the addictive promise of “Ridin’ Solo.” Balkan Beat Box funks up the booty-owning ingenue whose opening bid is a sweet “Jason! Hee-hee-hee!” Snoop confides to the next booty proprietor, “Damn, baby, you got a bright future behind you.” Timbaland induces his assigned booty to pop like bubblegum. And the tush twerks on for 38 minutes. But it’s Derulo whose ebullience convinces me that he’s dealing confidence not arrogance, pleasure not power. And it’s Derulo whose “I swear that I will mean it” seals the soaring “Marry Me,” a proposal at least as sincere as Al Green’s once was and probably more so. A

Every generation gets the Al Green it deserves.

i think it's adorable when he does these "man, this offensive pop just makes me wanna do the frug straight through" A reviews, and it's far less hater-obsessed than the one he gave The E.N.D.

The E.N.D. [Interscope, 2009]
How dare people call this wondrous album--actual quotes, now--"insipid," "saccharine," "clumsy"? Only I don't mean people--I mean journalists professional and self-appointed, from rockist sourpusses to keepers of the hip-hop flame. Just plain people love it--love it so much that various of its tracks topped the pop charts nonstop for the entire summer. "Party All the Time" is no more a recipe for living than is instant Wi-Fi for all, the message of the supposedly "political" "Now Generation." But in a party anthem it's the definition of intelligence. Sampling classic rap rapaciously and as cool with Auto-Tune as with getting their drunk on, they party beginning to end, which as it happens is a far rarer achievement than signifying beginning to end. Maybe this album is dumb on the surface, though not as much as fools claim. But sure as showbiz it isn't dumb underneath. A

woops, i meant "this inoffensive pop"

i genuinely believe this stuff gives him a thrill, too. "harmlessly consistent piffle from relatively decent role model" is gonna mean a lot to septuagenarians who listen to modern music all day for a living, compared to thirtysomethings who listen to modern music all day for a living. not to mention septuagenarians who DON'T get a paycheck when they hear a pop album.

i should probably tack and don't regret the error of their ways to "septuagenarians who listen to modern music all day for a living"

in the context of a site that seems to exist for the sole purpose of taking music writing back to where it was 15 years ago, That was when I came in, and sure seemed better, though not altogether. More thoughts on that, please, Maura, or anyone. (I'm already auto-wary of Medium, but would like to know more.)

http://www.people.com/article/jason-derulo-jordin-sparks-split-marriage-pressure

:,(

It wasn't better. A cursory spin through Lexis-Nexis will see a lot of doctrinaire laziness and a much narrower demographic pool from which people paid to opine on music were plucked.

The only way that it *was* getting better was that people were getting paid more. But, you know, fuck Craigslist, right?

re: derulo/sparks spliy, it can't help when your single "marry me" goes to #26 and then your single about fucking girls across the globe goes to #3

"Well, the label would prefer we kept your engagement a secret. You see, a lot of women are going to want to have sex with you, and we want them to think they can."

"Well, if I explain it to Jordin that way, I’m sure she’ll understand…"

derulo/sparks split

Cursory spins through Lexis-Nexis not an option, though my obv. biased impression: at least xhuxx tried to widen range of voices, countervailing higher-ups' narrowing the range of coverage (Later, Latin; no thanks, New Music, etc., etc.).
But, you know, fuck Craigslist, right? Right, but how does this pertain?

craigslist killed the free weeklies personals and classified ads money?

True.

Huh

As a pro-Christmas person who hates the term "happy holidays" I found this not just amusing but educational. Don't miss the "special ornament" entry, which I see was very well-received. https://t.co/VOYJN4JsrU

— Robert Christgau (@rxgau) December 20, 2020

Keep the “Christ” in “Christgau”!

That was pretty good, thanks

🤮

No one over the age of 75 should be allowed to tweet

more bad praxis from milo

I really can't comprehend having strong feelings about whether your perfunctory exchange with a retail worker is happy holidays or merry xmas

seems like attempted liberal baiting by feigning ignorance of the culture war context

but who cares what mr “I love cops and I’m a better feminist than these dumb broads I’m reviewing who I still want to fuck btw” thinks

cops?

he had a rant after the election about how harmful the defund the police line was. like every good liberal he refused to acknowledge his discomfort as his own and projected onto other people instead. this is a guy who boasts about his leftism at every opportunity

so do you

xgau at least has another, more useful element to his shtick

at least I’m not a clintonite pretending to be a marxist

what are you pretending to be

this seems like he's not hardcore against it

Without blaming it for Dem legislative losses, which were clearly the whole party's fault, I've criticized "Defund the Police" as a slogan and still have my doubts about it. So I have every right to insist that my fellow doubters get this strong counterargument under their belts. https://t.co/UfdxpYk0gn

— Robert Christgau (@rxgau) December 18, 2020

also I don’t have a decades long record of being a music press gatekeeper being paid for writing about musicians’ vaginas

the thing is he was coming out with this line in lockstep with the rest of the party establishment as soon as biden won. I don’t see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt here

you've lied about two things he said just in this thread, relying on ppl not clicking through

what’s the second thing and why does this old creep still need defending

what’s the first thing even. some people can read implicature

"he's a creep and he's old, any smear will do"
user left trying it on again

his creepiness is well documented even on this forum. are you him?

Ha! You haven't been on ilx long if you think that.

I don’t but yeah I’m a n00b. sometimes idk if ppl are only taking issue w things bc it’s me who’s saying them

Maybe you should observe the loose custom here of keeping ILM largely free of political posturing.

lol

"also I don’t have a decades long record of being a music press gatekeeper being paid for writing about musicians’ vaginas"

What is this in reference to?

His review of PJ Harvey's Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea, perhaps?

Re: "defund the police," he put his argument better in a tweet at AOC:

I'm a 78-year-old white man who favors radical police reform and hopes you in particular get everything you want from politics and life. But I'm also a veteran editor who knows an unfortunate turn of phrase when he sees one. "Defund the police" does more harm than good. Period.

i.e. it's not what the phrase actually means that's terrible, it's how it's been widely and easily misinterpreted. That's more of a knock on the general populace, and we don't need another lesson on how dumb collective intelligence can be.

uninterested in giving him any benefit of the doubt here, or anywhere

Hes right about defund the police being a misleading and alienating phrase.

fuck america

good morning!

(xposts) You really should write him directly and express these concerns--there's still time to get him to see the errors of his way.

https://www.robertchristgau.com/xgsezm.php

would "your a dick" constitute harrassment

It would constitute misspelling.

He will be humbled in any event, and very likely will thank you for your honesty.

No one man has done more to help create the American police state than Robert Christgau it's true

He only gave Straight Outta Compton a B, what more evidence do you need?

i don't enjoy agreeing with Christgau about anything but the album is very front-loaded

i'm more just perplexed by him caring about merry christmas vs. happy holidays, seems out of character (though i will defer to those who know his writing better than i)

i just assumed that was some old man bullshit

i guess it makes sense that his "oldschool NYC straightshooting hardman" routine would lead him to some lib-owning stuff like this. plus randomly attaching a pointlessly-divisive opinion to something just because he can is kind of xgau 101

idk what he's saying makes sense in a world where there is a robust "center" coalition in this country but the election of Donald Trump kinda destroys that whole illusion

it frustrates me to no end that the GOP is the party that figured that out

while the so called good guys are still making policy based on an imaginary center-right couple living in Chuck Schumer's head

💣

fuck america

― Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 10:29 (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together for Left!

Just realized one of the tedious arselicking talking heads in this shitty Beatles documentary I'm watching until something better comes on is Christgau.

IIRC, there's a whole chapter on arselicking in his autobiography.

It's funny to see him in some proto-punk documentary - he's aloof in discussing the Velvet Underground but gets animated when it comes to praising his beloved New York Dolls.

cool to see ned/xgau pic upthread as i believe i am just out of frame (having fun with all my friends)

He's rarely a good talking head in a documentary, where you need someone who can get everything they need to say in a brief segment while doing it in an interesting or entertaining way - ironic for a guy whose best criticism tends to be in the Consumer Guide entries. My favorite craptacular moment is when someone interviewed him for a local Minneapolis PBS documentary on Hüsker Dü and he waffles on his take on their music, calling them "the best band of the '80s" and immediately following it with a loud and deliberate "which isn't saying that much."

4chan kids will prolly be running web 3.0 in 7 to 10 years, and they only care about xgau, scaruffi and fantano,

― bozack horseman (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 10, 2014 12:20 PM (nine years ago)

Wait people care about Xgau other than us old weirdos?

The rym/musicbook/whoever kids knew him first through his Wikipedia dominance but I don't know anyone who straight up follows him like I do scaruffi and fantano.

Like I know people who follow scaruffi and fantano that means, AHEM

younger people love dunking on xgau (because wikipedia thinks his takes are so important) though a lot of them seem to think he's way more of a basic wenneresque boomer instead of the one of one kind of freak he actually is

fantano or scaruffi fandom seems like such a chan culture centric phenomenon and I don't know why ILM always assumes every music fan under 40 is into that shit. most people just listen to their friends and favourite artists recommendations it's a specific type of nerd who actually seeks out critics

afaict scaruffi was obscure before the 'the fact that' blew up and presumably most artists his fans would google would be treated to a (really tedious) write-up from him, giving the impression of knowing a lot of stuff. so he effectively became the old stuff man to those for whom fantano fills the new stuff criteria.

and actually, though i alluded to knowing people of this sort - because i have very much so in the past - my various close music circles which have all been critic-seeking haven't been so for them two. for instance there's a contingent of people aware of reynolds, some possibly through k-punk, and that has led to other discoveries.

From a tweet prompted discussion of critics a response on Xgau

https://x.com/misterminsoo/status/1708565790566334801?s=46&t=u2ZSlsY3trRV36IPP6jNDQ

lol that’s great!

ha, this popped up on facebook today. me and the boys at harvard 10 years ago.

https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/1073050_10152588755537137_256138507_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9b3078&_nc_ohc=hB-UIs7DWR8AX_MSxEt&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCoGSdlkvepzLUWx8xoxM0qs6rFkEV89bQcmugBcjaT2w&oe=655BEB92

awww, nice photo

OMG

Poking around for some reviews of this particular album and had to roll my eyes at this guy, of all people, calling out misogyny:

NRBQ: Grooves in Orbit [Bearsville, 1983]
They really are virtuosos of fun, a major accomplishment that makes for minor records. They're so dedicated to the perpetual adolescence of pure (or purist) rock and roll that they imitate youth--Joey Spampimato is the most egregious coy-boy in this band of players first and singers second--rather than redefining youthfulness, a more appropriate task for artists of their advancing years. I know they're only kidding (har har), but at some level these are guys who still believe a real girl (not woman, please) sews your shirt and shines your shoes. B

Out of curiosity I looked up his reviews of PJ Harvey. More or less overwhelmingly positive, start to finish, and yet the first few reviews are just shades of edgelord yuck, imo.

For once the thread title seems apposite. A NZ reader goads Christgau into a tetchy response by speaking the obvious:

Harris is the establishment. Trump is viewed by his voters as a counter-establishment force, albeit uncontrollable, self-centered, and potentially dangerous...
- Ricardo Pini, New Zealand

May I suggest that unless American politics is your academic specialty or something you refrain from gross generalizations about a nation half a world away from yours. It's certainly true that today's active Democrats have a collegiate/academic tinge/orientation that diluted or strained their moral compass and damaged their appeal to large swaths of the working-class electorate. But the "establishment" is the people with too much money, not the people who inflect a major field of discourse...

LOL, I guess if you're American you can define words to mean whatever is most convenient for your argument.

May I suggest that unless American politics is your academic specialty or something you refrain from gross generalizations about a nation half a world away from yours.

Pot, meet kettle.

Shonen Knife [Gasatanka/Giant, 1990]
The problem with the Japanese is that they don't know the difference between a Ramones song and a Wrigley commercial. But we do, or should, and these are Wrigley commercials, in which three lookee-no-touchee geishas do a good job of half implying that the supercatchy "Banana Fish" is a J.D. Salinger reference--in other words, that they condescend to American culture as much as American counterculture condescends to them. Unfortunately, the only thing that might make this ambiguity interesting would be musical dimensions they have no time, use, or aptitude for. C+

Not to mention this bit from the Pizzicato Five pan:

And although I might get it if I were Japanese, I'm not. In fact, I could even surmise that their failure to reveal the emotional core that glints out from Madonna and Waters and especially the Pet Shop Boys bespeaks a repressed culture that has zero claim on an alien's empathy. But I won't. B

There are probably dozens of similar jibes at France, the UK, and "Yurrup" but those two always stuck in my craw, even as I agree with the basic aesthetic assessment of each.

4chan kids will prolly be running web 3.0 in 7 to 10 years, and they only care about xgau, scaruffi and fantano,

― bozack horseman (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 10, 2014 12:20 PM (ten years ago) bookmarkflaglink

you've finally lost it

― famous instagram God (waterface), Wednesday, September 10, 2014 12:20 PM (ten years ago) bookmarkflaglink

three lookee-no-touchee geishas

Jesus fuck. I wouldn't have printed that when I was writing copy for literal porn magazines. He's such an irredeemable piece of shit.

I always liked this review. A fave record of mine too

Reformation: Post TLC [Narnack, 2007]
This does get weird, quiet and slack second half, although, really, why shouldn't his wife sing "The Wright Stuff"? In any case, the first half regales and/or lacerates with the mad purity and/or skeptical hilarity Mark E. Smith was put on the planet to take to his grave. Recorded with Los Angeles pickup musicians, although now I guess we just call them the Fall, immediately after his band of seven years ditched him in Phoenix, it states its business out of the box: "I think it's over now I think it's ending/I think it's over now I think it's beginning." Then it does its business with "Insult Song," a six-minute shaggy groove story about being stuck with ree-tards from the Los Angel-eeze district. A-

"three lookee-no-touchee geishas"
Nice one. Nothing wrong with hilarious criticism

Not even Morrissey would stoop to that one