POO: a song out of Wire's Pink flag+Chairs Missing+154

map ref or the 15th

great poll

i agree

so many contenders

first round

"Surgeon's Girl" – 1:17
"Pink Flag" – 3:47
"1 2 X U" – 1:55
"Practice Makes Perfect" (Bruce Gilbert, Colin Newman) – 4:11
"I Am the Fly" (Lewis, Newman) – 3:09
"I Feel Mysterious Today" (Lewis, Newman) – 1:57
"A Touching Display" (Lewis) – 6:55

The 15th vs. Outdoor Miner is TEARING ME APART

for me it comes down to:

three girl rhumba
lowdown
practive makes perfect
the 15th

PINK FLAG so hard forever, but i know some wire-lite song is gonna take it

and not that theres anything wrong with that (at least in this case imo)

yeah, i know, and they're really really good songs (talkin about mannequin, map ref, outdoor miner, and to a lesser degree, the 15th), but they like RUN AWAY with the credit for these three albums by having gauzy elements that remind ppl of how much they like shoegaze bands, and imo THAT IS NOT THE POINT of these albums.

This is really tough but I'm going for the beauty of the 15th

This would be hard even if you separated the three albums

Ex-Lion Tamer

tough, though!

it's not so easy to distinguish:

what is Reuters for example?

lite wire or hard-wire?!

xpost to 69

pink flag (the song) is a great punk song, but Wire are so much better at post punk songs.

between Mercy and The 15th for me

Went with Mercy

xp reuters isnt what im talking about.

i dont mind the punk/post-punk divide -- it's the fact that the PRETTY songs are the ones ppl all stan for, and i think wire is more about TAUTNESS, inna punk or post-punk idiom.

dont get me wrong, i like the pretty ones!!! i just think theyre more one-offs than ESSENCES

blessed state, people.

'a touching display' is totally unrepresentative of the rest, but it's great....

fair enough.

it seems The 15th might be the winner..

in terms of ~essential~ tracks, that would be 12xu vs practice makes perfect vs a mutual friend

map ref. no, ex lion tamer. no, outdoor miner. uhh... underdog vote for "used to"? CANNOT CHOOSE DON@T MAKE ME CHOOSE

just about 90% of these tracks are the best wire track ever for as long as you are listening to them, then the next one starts and is the best wire track ever.

(i like the pretty ones, as you see from my list, and am not even sure that wire is about "tautness" still by the point of 154, or maybe ever; i mean, individual songs on pink flag are very taut, but as a whole it's a sprawl, a mess of weird juxtapositions, and that is as awesome to me as any lean, mean art-punk concept embodied by its snappier individual tracks - which is not to say that those are not also awesome

maybe 2000s wire is "taut"; i don't like that stuff, really. having a bit of a dilemma abt whether to see them live soon when i don't like the past decade of their output which everyone else says is "really strong, man, y'know, considering", etc)

but they like RUN AWAY with the credit for these three albums by having gauzy elements that remind ppl of how much they like shoegaze bands, and imo THAT IS NOT THE POINT of these albums.

...the PRETTY songs are the ones ppl all stan for, and i think wire is more about TAUTNESS, inna punk or post-punk idiom.

...dont get me wrong, i like the pretty ones!!! i just think theyre more one-offs than ESSENCES

― 69, Friday, October 22, 2010

thing is, i'm not really into essences. mostly just songs. and i'd fallen in love with 154 years before anyone thought to gaze at shoes. despite its inconsistencies, i prefer it to pink flag and chairs missing, and that's mostly down to "two people in a room", "the 15th", "a mutual friend", "blessed state" and "map ref". hardly the quintessence of wire, but great fucking songs.

went with "blessed state"

map ref or the 15th

― i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta), Friday, October 22, 2010 1:38 PM

Blessed State! yes! i forgot how great this song is

maybe 2000s wire is "taut"; i don't like that stuff, really. having a bit of a dilemma abt whether to see them live soon when i don't like the past decade of their output which everyone else says is "really strong, man, y'know, considering", etc)

― what is he like? the guy's a juggalo, man (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 22 October 2010 23:29 (6 minutes ago)

'the art of stopping', '23 years too late'....some triffic stuff

Colin Newman was so good at creamy ballads.

I went with "Practice Makes Perfect," but I could have chosen any one of the first fifteen.

From "Mannequin," "Too Late," and "Map Reference"--a trio whose brilliance I'd put up against almost any three anybody else could counter with--I'd take "Mannequin."

The list tails off at the end ("Map Rep" excepted), but that's cuz most of 154 actively annoys me.

*Ref

lowdown vs. three girl rhumba vs. too late vs. mercy vs. start to move vs. 12xu vs. from the nursery vs. this could go on forever.

went with mercy though without really thinking. now i'm listening to too late though and regretting my decision. but i would feel the same listening to any song.

fuck 154 though, seriously.

an honorable mention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTGNnSgfp5Q

"fuck 154 though, seriously."

among other things, i like how this album sounds like Brian Eno

Eno sang as horribly as Graham Lewis.

Eno NEVER sang

I got these albums in sequence in fall '98 and spring '99, and was shocked by "The Other Window" and "I Should Have Known Better."

the 15th

Ex-Lion Tamer! Fragile! 12XU! Outdoor Miner! Map Ref. 41°N 93°W! Fuck you for this impossible poll!

Guarantee "Map Ref" takes this.

the first thought I got when I saw this poll was "Fragile" and I'm going to stick with that one just to preserve my sanity. Well, the more I look at the list, the less I'm convinced that's indeed a proper choice, gotta act quickly then

I voted "A Mutual Friend". Has always stuck with me. Though surely like everyone, could have gone with a million others. "Practice" in particular bumps up against it.

hope someone votes for "It's So Obvious", it would make me sad to see it settle at zero :(

among other things, i like how this album sounds like Brian Eno

not like any eno i've heard. it's too gothic! and lame.

Three Girl Rhumba. Seems way bigger than its running time. Oddly, Pink Flag is probably my least favorite of their big three.

*Favorite* Wire song is actually the Band of Susans cover of Ahead, but that's neither here nor there.

Thinking "Brazil" will take zed honors.

Oh that tribute record WHORE was just great, best of the species.

Felling the pain the pain the pain the pain the pain.

Sand In My Joints 4EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Definitely their most immediate track. Love that one. And "Dot Dash" the twin.

really interested to know the results of this one.

Oh that tribute record WHORE was just great, best of the species.

Without a doubt, as much a reflection of Wire as the bands covering them.

I keep meaning to put together a volume 2 from the best one-off covers I can find...

I'd rather be a sprat than a mackerel

the Band of Susans cover of Ahead

oh shit yeah. you talk about your forgotten...

Its too obvious to say the 15th or map ref or outdoor miner.

I'm actually leaning more t'wards "Should have known better" or "On Returning".

Sand In My Joints 4EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed. Poll is impossible. Even if you split it into the three albums.

Poll is imposs but I'm going with "Ex Lion Tamer", "French Film Blurred" or "Touching Display". Probly the 1st of those.

Too Late

Could have been one of many. But went for On Returning.

Sorry to be boring, but i went for map ref. It's one of those perfect songs

I wish the long version of Outdoor Miner with the piano bridge was represented. Went with the original anyway.

yeah, i know, and they're really really good songs (talkin about mannequin, map ref, outdoor miner, and to a lesser degree, the 15th), but they like RUN AWAY with the credit for these three albums by having gauzy elements that remind ppl of how much they like shoegaze bands, and imo THAT IS NOT THE POINT of these albums.

― 69, Friday, October 22, 2010 2:17 PM (2 days ago)

ITT OTT MENTALISM ;-P

stupid bloody Dot Dash being a stupid bloody single only. guess i'll go with ex lion timer instead.

"I Am The Fly". "154" is the better album, but it contains nothing as good as that one.

"I Should Have Known Better" is one of my 5 favourite songs by anyone ever, so that - it's juuuuuust perfect, the last 30 seconds are the best 30 seconds in music etc

I also like that it's a 'share' of a song title from the Beatles.

Also, for a bunch of 'arty' students, that's a severely personal lyric.

I have noticed that in interview situations, they've managed to deflect any kind of lyrical analysis by stating the lyrics are 'just texts to accompany the music' (e.g. if "Serious of Snakes" isn't about CNewman's failing marriage, then it certainly isn't about a pub landlord at chucking out time)

"The 15th" narrowly over "Map Ref."

Ended up votin for "should have known better"

How is Outdoor Miner less than 2 minutes long?

for the answer to that, and so much more:
http://www.stereosociety.com/outdoorminer.shtml

(scroll down)

My second choice would be French Film Blurred, my third Mercy, my fourth A Touching Display

Semi-finals between 'Outdoor Miner' and 'French Film Blurred'; 'The 15th' and 'Three Girl Rhumba'.
Finalists: 'French Film Blurred' and 'The 15th'
Winner: 'The 15th'

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I just listened to PF and CM for the first time in a few years. So many amazing moments - those albums must've sounded so ODD at the time. But it's gotta be "Outdoor Miner".

Too Late

Outdoor Miner, Mannequin, Three Girl Rhumba, Strange, Map Ref.... argh.

"strange", "ex lion tamer", "two people in a room", "the 15th", "on returning". I really really love 154.

An evening of fun in the metropolis of your dream-uh
An evening of fun in the metropolis of your dream-uh
An evening of fun in the metropolis of your dream-uh
An evening of fun in the metropolis of your dream-uh

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

chairs missing - 34 votes
154 - 26 votes
missing chairs - 24 votes

"where is the love for" -

Reuters, Start To Move, French Film Blurred.

pink flag - 24 votes, that is

I'm the only vote for "Mutual Friend"? Good gravy. Drowned in plausible alternatives I suppose.

"Two People in a Room" (Colin Newman, B. C. Gilbert) – 2:09 0

oh man, this is just WRONG. UNACCEPTABLE. I should have voted for it, but I figured it would already be well represented because it's one of the greatest songs OF ALL TIME IN THE UNIVERSE. Seriously, play it at top volume and do a jumpkick, as high as you can. Amazing.

I can tell you that is Peter Prescott's favorite song, like, ever. He goes into a trance when he hears it.

it's possible that all of the people that really loved it have fallen into trances and were unable to vote

Well certainly they weren't busy reevaluating Dome.

I just did that but my opinion remains the same - a smattering of good bits with lots of ideas that go nowhere.

Brutal.

and wrong. Dome 1, Dome 2, 3R4 all genius.

How does a person evolve to form positive convictions about the band Dome.

Horses for courses and all that. Glad it all exists, though, and quite looking forward to the new Wire album in January!

French Film Blurred and A Touching Display with 0, eh

"Field Day for the Sundays" – 0:28 0
makes me sad, but so many other things to vote for, of course...

(I didn't buy a ticket for the Wire show in Oxford this month and now it has sold out - was mainly holding out on ticket-buying as it's part of a series of 3 shows and there was a cheaper ticket for all 3 but I don't know yet if I can make them all. Curses!)

Who voted for "Mr. Suit" and "Used To" and why?

(o) "Used To" ♥ "Mr. Suit"

Looking at the composers of my favourite Wire songs it occurs to me that Graham Lewis is the freaking man

I only mind him when he starts to sing.

He's responsible for some of their best moments, like Sand In My Joints & I Should Have Known Better, and for some of their worst like Other Window and A Touching Display.

come over here and say that about A Touching Display

No wrong answers in this poll imo.

Read + Burn 1 + 2 were such ecstatic releases for me. I still love 'em both, "Trash/Treasure" especially.

some of their worst like Other Window

That's Bruce Gilbert though... vocals + words anyway

TIME. PASSED. SLOWLY.

Read + Burn 1 + 2 were such ecstatic releases for me. I still love 'em both, "Trash/Treasure" especially.

Word. And R&B 3 is damn fine as well. These boys can do no almost no wrong as Wire (though missteps have happened).

yeah, i mean i can't imagine that the results would have been too terribly different had the ideal copy been included

Well they get the technicality pass on "3ir" don't they Ger.

Have you listened to Wir's "The First Letter" lately? I revisited it and, years after the expectations and disappointment, find it to be at least half great and not at all an embarrassment. Ditto for "Manscape", though I'll grant both those albums are their nadir and can be skipped by most but the ardent fans. Plus there were some non-lp tracks from that era that are better than anything on those two albums - c.f. the bits collected on "Vien" and the collaboration with Erasure.

What if Colin Newman's A-Z had been included?

ALWAYS IN AHHHHH-MOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRR

I love/d Vien but I've never been able to deal with the valley from Document through Read + Burn beyond what made the cut for A-List.

Fair enough, but you must admit the stuff on "The A List" pretty damn fun, if not as compelling as the rest of their output.

I would've helped out 12XU had I known it would only get 1 vote.

Any love for Object 47? That really flew under the radar and has some excellent songs like One Of Us. It's a little too overproduced but it's still good.

Overproduced, really? I think it's great, it's has a cohesive feel, like one song rolls into the next, that I enjoy. And it craps all over the hyped indie rock bands of the day...

Lots of love for it here. Prefer it to the Read und Burn stuff, actually.

I loved "One Of Us."

Overproduced, really?

Musically it's fine. But they went way overboard with the treated vocals.

Who voted for "Mr. Suit" and "Used To" and why?

― naus, Friday, 29 October 2010 12:02 (3 days ago) Bookmark

'Used To', me. Will explain later, but listen to the first 8 seconds, fuckwit

No need to be hostile. I like those songs, but just feel that Wire has so many better moments and was seeking your rationale.

Shit yeah, that was unduly cunty of me. Sorry.

Answer is I knew the top three would be adequately represented, so looking for something else, 'cause really very few of these songs deserve zero votes. While I was looking through the list, 'Used To' jumped out for amazing vocal harmonising. Really it could be any number of songs, and would very likely change in the future (and has def. been different in the past) but at the time that's what I sung in my head and it seemed a good choice.

These days I would rather listen to C. Newman's A-Z, Snakedrill/A Bell Is A Cup... or Read & Burn series though.

reuters deserved a vote, so pretend i voted and pretend i voted for that

Any love for Object 47? That really flew under the radar and has some excellent songs like One Of Us. It's a little too overproduced but it's still good.

Really like it. A return to form after the horrible "Send".

I think I got to the point where I don't need another Wire album, I guess.

I did get the Send Redux LP version, played it a bit, liked it, but apart from "the art of stopping" I don't recall any of it specifically.

Some of these songs are really horrible on their own but work in an album context because of the consistency of Wire's sound. Not going to name names here, they know who they are.

I'd sooner listen to modern Wire stuff tbh. Comet is probably my favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BhW7u1Ct-A&feature=related

And the chorus goes... blah, blah, blah

And nice mention of TS Eliot's The Hollow Men.

POO: a song out of every album ever recorded

Option / Votes
"Map Ref. 41°N 93°W" (Lewis, Newman, Gilbert) – 3:36 / 1

Not sure what to think about Two Minutes the first available song from their new album.

The rest of the album is pretty poppy and not as fast as the other two. Good though.

By the other two, I mean the last two.

I thought Object 47 was a letdown after the incredible Read & Burn 03

Doran, you've heard the new album?

S - they flowed really well together, I had them on a single playlist shortly after they came out and it didn't feel like an odd pairing at all.

Yeah. I've found myself indulging in some spectacular teenage wish fulfilment recently and have ended up promoting a couple of small Wire shows in London early next week. Colin sent me a copy of the album.

That said, Wire just aren't that popular in the UK. You'd think given that we'd just been through a massive post punk revival that some of this would have rubbed off on them but it didn't. Possibly because they became strangely popular again during Brit Pop because of the Elastica thing... I don't know. Or maybe it's because they don't really play the old stuff... This hasn't really affected The Fall but there again, there isn't really a comparable cult round Wire.

Luckily the shows that we're putting on with Factory Floor and Lone Lady have proved really popular and they've gone on to book some bigger shows off the back of it. I find it really irritating that they don't really have the same rep as The Pop Group or Gang Of Four.

Just got the new album. Looking forward to checking it out. Loved the first two Read & Burn EPs (and Send) but have literally no memory of Object 47 or Read & Burn 03. They're both still in my iPod, I guess I could/should revisit them.

Damn, really jealous of you early bird listeners!

I didn't know that, Doran - they seem to be widely revered in the US by music cognoscenti but they're still playing clubs of only around 500-600 (which they seem to sell out), though they were at much larger venues when they initially came back in 2000. The Fall play the same venues. Gang Of Four, as you point out, seems to have an even higher profile despite a lower volume of (and arguably quality) of output. We'll see, though, how they do touring "Content" - the initial tour after their reformation was at big clubs, not sure they'll do better than the places Wire's been playing.

maybe it's because Gang Og Fout are just better as a live band compared to The Fall and Wire?

Gang Of Four

It's been my experience that Wire are like The Beatles for rock geeks, but normal people have no idea who they are. Their biggest moment in the sun was probably REM covering Strange.

It's been my experience that Wire are like The Beatles for rock geeks, but normal people have no idea who they are. Their biggest moment in the sun was probably REM covering Strange.

― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:35 (Yesterday) Bookmark

Selfishly pleased about this sort of thing. Imagine if something like 'Outdoor Miner' blew them right up (and it's suggested that it might've, reading about the "scandal" associated with it), would they be as adventurous later down the line?

what was the scandal?

http://www.stereosociety.com/outdoorminer.shtml

…The single ascended to #51 in the UK charts. So much for esoteric. The BBC unofficially gave the nod that if it went up the next week, they would run it on the big long-running show 'Top Of The Pops'. Since sales were improving steadily, I felt justified in planning my on-camera outfit.

At the time, the so-called 'chart shops', whose sales were monitored, saw a constant battle of wits between the chart measurers (at the time the British Market Research Bureau) whose credibility depended on finding an accurate reflection of all sales from a very small sample, and the record companies who wanted to enhance, or 'hype', the chart position to increase a single's visibility. It was a quite simple process: go into the chart-reporting store and buy six copies with a company credit card. Nothing suspicious here, mate. Have one for yourself...

Dodgy music biz practices came in waves in the UK, and this was crest time. Everybody was doing it, which was perfectly understandable with the sieve-like security of the BMRB. The only problem for us was that EMI was the one that got caught when standards had to be seen to be upheld. The single was deleted from the charts for that week, which meant that it would have a hard time meeting the BBC's rising-position criterion. Had that 'Top Of The Pops' appearance happened, the single would have almost certainly entered the Top 20 and launched a visible 'commercial' career for the group. EMI thought that was a real possibility, otherwise they wouldn't have put in the effort. Unfortunately, that was that, despite the record company's (rather unconvincing) denials. The exclusion made them instantly invisible.

amazing. did this ever happen again with any other bands i wonder?

One of the early Pink Floyd singles iirc

I find it really irritating that they don't really have the same rep as The Pop Group or Gang Of Four.

Is this true though? Obv. they are miles better than both those bands (who I like btw). And also one of the best live bands I've ever seen too. The fact that they keep going away and coming back doesn't help.

Zeno: I don't know if you've seen Gang Of Four in their latest funk metal-lite incarnation but there are most definitely not better than either The Fall or Wire live. They may have more proficient muso-types in their ranks but this doesn't, IMHO, make them a better band.

Wire are nearly always great live... The Fall... well, I guess you have to be a fan or you'd just find them awful but I'd say they've been pretty much brilliant live for years now bar once or twice that I've seen them, and I tend to watch them twice a year live.

and
ork-ney

I find it really irritating that they don't really have the same rep as The Pop Group or Gang Of Four.

I can't remember a time (in North America, anyway) when this was true. Maybe the Gang of Four very briefly, when their first album came out. The Pop Group were never anything here.

I think I got to the point where I don't need another Wire album, I guess.

― Mark G, Wednesday, November 3, 2010 10:18 AM (seven years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

... And then they made "Change Becomes Us" and it was all good again!

x"Two People in a Room" (Colin Newman, B. C. Gilbert) – 2:09 0

oh man, this is just WRONG. UNACCEPTABLE. I should have voted for it, but I figured it would already be well represented because it's one of the greatest songs OF ALL TIME IN THE UNIVERSE. Seriously, play it at top volume and do a jumpkick, as high as you can. Amazing.

― Z S, Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:12 PM (seven years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can tell you that is Peter Prescott's favorite song, like, ever. He goes into a trance when he hears it.

― cee-oh-tee-tee

this is a neat little anecdote. at the time i didn't know who peter prescott was. now i do, for some reason, even though i haven't had a mission of burma-phase since then.

i still think it was robbed, btw. maybe not most accessible wire song, but it has a singular intensity

THE WINDOWS

A bit disappointed to learn that apparently the line isn't "our belief structure, the egg timer".

Is it too late to change my mind?

Not even a single vote for 'Reuters'?

Um, probably ending a song like that, not so much a good look these days.

As if it was OK then, but.

Does the song condone what it depicts? Because if it doesn't (and it doesn't), then I fail to see what the problem is, even 'these days'.

I don't think it condones it, no. The correspondent merely notes the chaos (gunfire, looting, burning, rape) around him.

From genius: The stretched-out words at the end also mimic distortion at the end of a tape. Not sure I've ever heard the end of a tape that way, but I see what they mean.

Tape running slower and slower then stopping I assume.

No, but it wouldn't make it anyone's favourite

Speak for yourself. I like its droniness and its sinister intensity.

Hokay

"A Touching Display" was robbed.

The book editions were fascinating in detailing who wrote which lyrics.

Unsurprisingly, Col wrote the punky things like "Mr Suit"

https://bid.omegaauctions.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-348---wire---original-pink-flag-promotional-calendar-poster/?lot=69558&so=1&st=&sto=0&au=185&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=0&pp=48&pn=2&g=1

You can use it again in 2033

A tune from the later era but I couldn't believe this when I saw it only recently. Baffling that this is not a better known clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkf84_tVdBc

80s Wire is underrated.

Not in 20 years!

D’you mean “not in the last 20 years” or “20 years from now they will not be underrated”?

Colin Newman solo albums are gravely underrated.

A-Z is essentially Wire, right?

I wouldn't go that far.

I guess only Robert from Wire is on it, but iirc it began as a Wire record, right?

I know I read something years ago calling A to Z the 4th Wire album, and there's obviously a musical through-line, but other than one lyric by Graham Lewis it's unlikely that all of those songs would have made it to their next record.
Newman's third album Not To features at least a couple of songs redone from the Wire live album Document and Eyewitness and other collaborations with his ex-bandmates.