What is the most self-consciously volatile/abstruse/offensive music around right now?

...cos I can't think of too many examples. I don't mean stuff like real-life fascist music or anything, I'm just having difficulty thinking of a band like Anal Cunt or Napalm Death or Nasenbluten or Ice-T or Necro or someone, an act who go deliberately out of their way to incite controversy or at least cause offense to your parents/other sensitive souls?

Seems that most extreme metal/noise/hip-hop/techno etc has a certain artistic direction or nuance that stops it from being simply loud and offensive for pretty much the sake of it... thoughts?

odd story grand mother blow them all

― haute couture wolf gang frill them all (samosa gibreel), Monday, November 15, 2010 8:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Is ICP's "SECRET GOD MESSAGE INSIDE" schtick what disqualifies them from this list?

message or not, ICP have been around for donkeys... I'm sure a few of the acts I mentioned are still peddling their schtick right now anyway...

Did this all die off when Marilyn Manson and Slipknot entered the mainstream?

There was a good article on the Guardian music blogs about this not so long ago, which argued - correctly in my view - that the only truly offensive artists these days are those who offend their own fans. Otherwise they are just pandering to their fanbase, who know what to expect and it all becomes too cosy.

So here's a follow-up question - which artists offend their own fans?

CC artists who go secular

At one point, Dixie Chicks.

CC artists who go secular

― Baron Strange of Knockin (DJP), Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:58 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

or stay CC but come out! aren't there like 5 of those folks now

haha someone needs to make an earl sweatshit/"earl" mashup

ew

blood on the dancefloor

what is CC?

Also (UK-centric question here), will we see a resurgence in "fuck you" culture in music now the students are revolting again?

C. C. DeVille (born Bruce Anthony Johannesson; May 14, 1962) is the lead guitarist of the American glam metal band Poison. He has also acted in both reality television and television drama shows. He starred in The Surreal Life season 6 and the The Surreal Life: Fame Games. Deville also formed a solo band in 1998 called Samantha 7.

Christian Country I think.

Christian Contemporary actually, but you might as well call it Christian Country

will we see a resurgence in "fuck you" culture in music

this...went away?

and wtf does it have to do with students?

blood on the dancefloor

yea crunkcore does a pretty good job of deliberately pissing off that entire teenage (pop-)punk/harcdore scene

Crunkcore has passionate fans, though. So again we're stuck with music that only pisses off outsiders, and which (maybe as a result) inspires devotion in fans. As far as musicians/bands that go out of their way to piss of their own fan base, isn't Lou Reed still the reigning champion?

all the bands cited in the original post pretty much cater to their fanbases too, though - "offensive" isn't a subset that really makes sense cuz of the different ways/levels it operates on, it's certainly not a genre.

you have to have an audience that is not your core fans paying attention to you in order to have someone to offend in the first place. since no artist has this any longer, this mode of antagonism is more or less extinct.

lex OTM that this is not a "genre"

like, having a centralized media with gatekeepers and limited outlets is kinda essential for this approach - you have to have something to rebel AGAINST. but all those restrictive barriers are mostly gone now.

^^yeah. (if indeed it ever existed?)

i guess it's a route that's open to the most famous acts around, but given how mock outrage can be generated with the most innocuous action, there's no need to try to go further. even lindsay lohan, whose lifestyle seems to offend the majority of people, is more pitied these days than feared.

^^yeah. (if indeed it ever existed?)

well there was stuff like the PMRC

i guess it's a route that's open to the most famous acts around, but given how mock outrage can be generated with the most innocuous action, there's no need to try to go further.

agree with this as well - Gaga for instance thrives on this kind of "ooh I am controversial!" schtick but is anyone really offended? its more like genteel amusement at this point.

i think the pop culture figures who've come closest this decade are probably the reality tv famewhore types whose very existence seems to anger and offend people - your tila tequilas and paris hiltons. (weirdly i don't sense the same antipathy towards kim kardashian?)

xp it's also about how the tiniest actions - kanye/taylor for instance, or janet jackson's tit - are blown up and treated as though they were on a par with sinéad o'connor ripping up the pope

ugh let's not go back to the Timberlake/Jackson Superbowl fiasco, I don't want to start hating dude again

actually threw my promo copy away because i didn't want it in the house! so, you know, they are doing a good job, i guess?

http://www.necrocosm.net/vpc/images/cover/xxxmaniak%20-%20Harvesting%20the%20Cunt%20Nectar.jpg

okay I clicked on that, and then the URL registered and I was like "WAIT NO"

thank god for quick reflexes

its hard to offend me too...

oh sorry! nsfw...

i don't even think...

jesus christ

I just kind of assume this stuff is out there though - it's easy enough to ignore/keep away from my children, etc.

my initial reaction upon seeing that is 'lol photoshop' so maybe I'm immune idk

they're just gross. and the music sucks.

i mean, i'm a heinous killings fan, so i'm no angel or anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHqwzMZ_KUE

It was just the dildo that offended you, admit it.

i'm having trouble reading that heavily splintered logo but does that say, "xxx jandek"?

xxx maniak

"you painted your queef"

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2010/11/tinsel_teeth_pl.html

not sure what makes that photoset SUPREMELY NSFW instead of just NSFW

either way it didn't seem very offensive

i'm more confused by what's vegan about it.

...[acts] who go deliberately out of their way to incite controversy or at least cause offense to your parents/other sensitive souls?

this was the OP question, and this kind of thing still exists, as seward points out. it's been pushed to the margins, though, as there doesn't seem to be much taste for it in the mainstream at the moment (like there ever was). horrorcore is pretty much dead, even metal has become more grown-up and cerebral over the last decade. otoh, goole mentioned OFWGKTA, who seem to be having some success with a deliberately parent & sensitive soul offending formula, so maybe we're due for a resurgence. other fringe dwellers: brainbombs, cannibal corpse, their offsprings.

destroy the kardashian-weight-loss complex!!!

http://gawker.com/5548355/

re: lex's "no antipathy to the kardashians" point, btw. i think that's true, but they seem pretty loathsome to me

tbh, after watching WAY TOO MUCH of their shows Khloe seems kind of awesome

maybe I'm uh too close to the subject to comment but tinsel teeth aren't trying to be offensive, they're just trying to put on a good show. pictures of their gigs always look desperate and depraved but when you're actually in the room there's an energetic freedom/party vibe.

actually this is the worst album cover I've seen recently, worse than the xxx maniak which seems kinda cartoonish to me

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__M4hy7zDemo/TC1c_JFS91I/AAAAAAAAB54/mTRwVkOcuWo/s320/nice.bmp

why did I click on that

yeah really don't

fuck

i used to like sausages

what is it?

well there's some sausages

it will be dan pulling out his eyes if he clicks on it

is it, like, someone eviscerated or something

or someone sticking actual sausages where they shouldn't go

or a delightful combination of the two?

aaaagh

the worst thing is you have to peer really close to see what the album-title is

oh well, I guess I'll never know

wow dan you are a good guesser, it's the latter

I was at that Tinsel Teeth show Friday night; they mostly bored me, except when the singer came charging into the crowd and it looked like I was gonna get slammed into. Then I was actively annoyed. It wasn't nearly as exciting as when I saw GG Allin in '92 and there was risk of getting human feces on me and having to drive home that way.

Re goregrind (XXX Maniak, that linked album cover), I find that stuff pretty disgusting. Some of it is over-the-top in a funny way (Cemetery Rapist, for example, has girls doing depraved things on his album covers, but he photoshops cornfields in the background, which makes me laugh). The thing is, though, the graphics are almost totally disconnected from the music 'cause the guttural vocals make it impossible to tell what any of those dudes are "singing" about. Does "GGGGGURRRRRGHHHH" mean "I want to insert sausages in all your bodily orifices" or "I'd really like a sandwich when you've got a minute, Mom"?

Cemetery Rapist, for example, has girls doing depraved things on his album covers, but he photoshops cornfields in the background, which makes me laugh

Yes means Cornfields

lol

goregrind is rad but i feel like it has existed forever

i saw this aids wolf set last week & it was suuuper brutal. in between songs the feedback was just endless and excruciating, & ive always found their singer really disturbing, not just offensive or vile but emotionally almost. ive always found she sounds like a child warding off a rapist. i cringed/shuddered so hard i nearly fainted. also the show was in a small concrete walled loft the size of a living room

really? i like AIDS Wolf, but have never found them/Chloe particularly disturbing

AIDS Wolf is, again, one of those bands who are basically completely unknown beyond their fanbase. it's not like Senator Blobfish is holding up copies of their album at a subcomittee hearing

right, Shakey, and that's why there are tons of threads with ilxors talking about how much they hate the band's name?

senator blobfish sounds like a noise band

sarahe1, how many ppl does aids wolf draw on average, like 75 ppl probably?

i'm not their booking agent, i don't know the answer to that. their Bay Area shows that i've been to, the crowd ranged from 50 - 125.

obviously a bunch of people outside their fanbase have heard of them - they're not like some obscure noise project that rarely plays out and is only known to a dozen or so brutalsfx posters.

i think ppl have heard of them because of the name...but anyway read shakey's posts upthread, he's got some good points about how to be truly "shocking" you have to have a large pop culture stature, not just like a weird rock band that people on ILM have heard of

so you're saying we should measure shock potential by number of people potentially shocked?

lol xxx maniak has the most offensive song title of all time imo: "aroused by the rape trial"

have you guys seen the Rod Stewart video for "Tonight's the Night"?

why don't you read what shakey posted :)

he says it better

but to me, it's about context

if i go to a house show that's like Cock ESP and Faggot, and i see some dude shove a microphone up his ass, well...that's kinda expected in a weird way, or at least not out of synch with the expectations of the crowd...

i read what shakey posted - i'm questioning his assertion - like does it really matter how many parents/sensitive souls are offended? I'm assuming that there are plenty of fans of extreme music that live with parents and/or expose sensitive souls to their fave tunes.

The idea that this is a thing of the past doesn't necessarily hold water with me. I'd guess that Britain is probably only a year or two off producing its first thug rapper that actually sells records, and that will kick off some epic handwringing.

i mean, gg allin was shocking at first but once it's a schtick then the crowd is pretty much coming to the show for that experience....

like early on: GG shit on stage, OMFG he's crazy

later: GG shit on stage, game recognize game

and you can still expect some dude to shove a microphone up his ass and be skeeved out by it

"...the aristocrats!"

I feel like "volatile" and "abstruse" are getting short shrift in this thread compared to "offensive". Regarding the first two categories, I'd nominate Kommissar Hjuler & Mama Baer's recent work as an excellent example. Some of it is so limited even their fans can't buy it, some is free on the internet, all of it is a case study in hysteria and volatility.

Lots of interesting observations here around offensiveness and the dead end nature of trying to be shocking in a fragmented media era.

At work the other day this dude played Steel Panther's "Asian Hooker", a good example of a current band trying too hard to be offensive.

like does it really matter how many parents/sensitive souls are offended?

I think it helps in that it's a more measurable element than... offensiveness of word or image, ie spending time trying to assuredly qualify, like, which is the naughtiest out of rape jokes and Nazi jokes and 9/11 jokes is a parlour game at best. Also the preaching to the choir thing that lots of ppl have already mentioned

I'd guess that Britain is probably only a year or two off producing its first thug rapper that actually sells records

think XL were hoping for Giggs to fit this cap? tho I might be overstating his background plus I never heard his album so can't point to it and go 'lol that's why it didn't sell'

spending time trying to assuredly qualify, like, which is the naughtiest out of rape jokes and Nazi jokes and 9/11 jokes is a parlour game at best.

yeah, but this is ilx

the important thing is you didn't write "poll"

I'd guess that Britain is probably only a year or two off producing its first thug rapper that actually sells records

can't quite imagine this as angry/angsty rock (whether UK or US, political or not) disappeared from the charts some years ago (which only made 'killing in the name' stand out all the more last xmas).

"i think ppl have heard of them because of the name..."
aids wolf, osama bin sars, and clap your hands say yeah all fall into this category for me. it might have been from a mad magazine list of funny band names, even (or more likely cracked.com).

for a while there was a WWE storyline about a wrestler with one leg starring an actual amputee and people thought Vince McMahon had gone over the line on that one, but then he started doing some "Ghost of Eddie Guerrero" nonsense not so long after his death and it went even more downhill from there, and very likely the sum of all these things cost Linda McMahon her election.

Surprised no one's mentioned Bobby Brown?

for the record yes I think in order for something to be offensive it requires an audience capable of being offended. AIDS Wolf's audience is not that audience. (and lol are there really ILM threads where people bitch about the name? news to me. also kinda ridiculous)

eye of the beholder and all that

I think the GG Allin point is a good one

I'm assuming that there are plenty of fans of extreme music that live with parents

do their parents really care? I haven't seen any militant parent's groups complaining about noise bands - oh wait there was that joke site on the internet once. lol. if my kid gets into some band that's all about transgression I won't really bat an eye and why should I, because it's obviously theater and kids are into pushing against perceived boundaries and hey I think that's all fine and healthy as long as she isn't actually skinning cats or raping people while wearing a nazi uniform or whatever.

and/or expose sensitive souls to their fave tunes.

again lol who are these "sensitive souls" who are still capable of being offended by music

I just think that the internet has made it abundantly clear that in the culture wars of the 80s, the Xtian right lost - porn is free and readily available to anyone, music contains all the sex, violence, and swear words imaginable, there's boobs at the Super Bowl and people can say "shit" on TV, etc. Censorship is pretty well nigh impossible in this day and age, and seems to be reserved really for the most extreme things that the majority of the population just cannot countenance on any level (child porn, snuff films, etc.). In this environment, what can anybody possible be "offended" by? Sure there's stuff you don't want to see or be exposed to, in which case it is very easy to just avoid it. For example, I didn't have to click on Edward's link, and I would have continued my existence blissfully unaware of the horrifying possibilities involving sausages and sexual assault.

lol xxx maniak has the most offensive song title of all time imo: "aroused by the rape trial"

should I be ashamed to admit I laughed at this...

dunno dude - do you want posters referring to you as "rapey mo collier" again?

should I be ashamed to admit I laughed at this...

No, but whatever you do, don't make it your username.

I thought they were a bunch of retarded Irish folk singers

your assumption that there's no one left to offend is belied by the fact that people get offended by things every day, the internet be damned. today it's mosques, yesterday it was violent video games, and tomorrow it will be something else. people like being offended by things. it's not only a way to define yourself in opposition, to make meaning of life, it's an entertaining pastime.

there's every reason to think that some angry mob or another will be offended by something in music, film or art sometime in the next few years. god knows what it will be. besides, the desire to offend has nothing to do with one's actual ability to offend. OP's question was about musical artists who want to push against the boundaries of conventional taste & morality, to shock parents & sensitive types, and there are still plenty of those, whether or not anyone cares enough to be legitimately offended. rammstein porn videos, for instance.

your = shakey's

dunno dude - do you want posters referring to you as "rapey mo collier" again?

lol I had forgotten all about that. RIP Ethan

I see your point contenderizer - maybe its just that the cultural currency of film/art/music has deteriorated so much that most people can't be bothered to get worked up about it for the most part...? more and more that stuff is free, and things that are free are essentially worthless in this society. and why be concerned over something that has no value, no power.

well it seems like right wingers have cornered the market on both being offensive and being offended, so what's a left-leaning provocateur to do?

Disappointed to see that XXX Maniak actually did a split with Coffins, a band I like!

Bands that want to offend their fans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IOX3LQbwdw

Surprised this hadn't been mentioned already - I love their album but based on this I hate them too.

obviously a bunch of people outside their fanbase have heard of them - they're not like some obscure noise project that rarely plays out and is only known to a dozen or so brutalsfx posters

okay seriously, you are arguing that AIDS Wolf is a well-known band?

might I suggest that you are living in a bubble?

i think a few years ago, when they were relaxing Irish movie censorship standards and a bunch of controversial movies that would prev. been banned got through, was the last major contr. i can remember in ireland. And i think that to some extent it has 2 accompany a shift of some kind, like a change of standards w/n a certain area, or a conduit which brings certain cultural production to the attn. of ppl who would otherwise just not know about it or be bothered looking for it.

Like I think that's the reason why ppl are talking about *the mainstream*, bc the mainstream implies that ppl outside of a "niche" are in some way in on it, and in the kinds of cases we're talking about, usually via waves of moral panic i guess. I suppose stuff like the PMRC which "brought to light" stuff that was just waiting to offend parents. Or Eminem and his teenage boy stanclub whose parents were not used to hearing *that* kind of music in the house etc etc

I suspect they are known to an extent outside of the noize dude colony, but also that it's basically entirely in the sense of 'I saw this band's name in a magazine once, you wouldn't believe what they were called!!!1' which doesn't really reveal anything about anything

xp

i was pretty offended by how shitty aids wolf was when i saw them.

but someone told me they are better now.

it's hard to be shocking in a world where saw and hostel are just ho hum normal. plus, before 9/11, some kids dressed in black throwing a rock at a starbucks window could actually raise an eyebrow or two. now, unless you are strapped with tnt people just yawn.

human centipede gave it the old college try though! but, even there, i walk into newbury comics and human centipede is on sale right inside the door next to the spongebob dvds or whatever. its no big deal.

Surprised this hadn't been mentioned already - I love their album but based on this I hate them too.

haven't heard the album but based on that clip I hate them too lol

That's because The Human Centipede is no A Serbian Film

still i saw "poison" the other day and i was like "this was controversial???"

is Black Nasty as famous as AIDS Wolf?

because he sucks, but he def qualifies for the thread idea

I'd rather leave things like Gaga out of this discussion, not that I think she doesn't offend, but her music is not volatile in the same way as say, Anal Cunt. There are plenty of celebs and pop stars doing outrageous-to-plain stupid things in the media, but discussing that's for another thread at another time.

I'm not sure if I agree entirely that you have to be offending your own fans, or anyone specific to count as "offensive". I coudl get "offended" by a lot of things on the radio that don't convey a particularly offensive message. Music is largely about creating an illusion, and if listeners are under this illusion then that's the important thing IMO.

I'm thinking about the illicit thrill of being 13 and hearing "Killing In The Name" for the first time. Or the riotous laffs that came from reading Anal Cunt lyrics and thinking "wow, I don't think I should really tell people I find this funny", or w/e.

Maybe I've grown up, or the world's changed, but there seemed to be a lot of extreme music a while back that deliberately set out to create this thrill - Burzum, Atari Teenage Riot, Johnny Violent, Throbbing Gristle etc... And I'm genuinely wondering whether acts like this are still coming out or not?

Goole brings up a good point, in that things like extreme metal have become more arty and cerebral. Dance music is practically middle-brow compared to its nascent illegal, drug-fuelled period. You don't really get people listening to gabba or nosebleed styles any more. And extreme hip-hop and horrorcore has been made redundant on the whole, because as Scott says, Human Centipede ain't no thing.

But surely there's a market for teens who still want to use music as a weapon against their daily authority figures? Maybe things like "Break Stuff" by Limp Bizkit managed to jump the shark, selling out snot-nosed indignance and lunk-headed rebellion in the most horrible way. Then came the furore over kids self-harming and listening to emo music, which I guess was a kind of affront to straight society - but the music was relatively lightweight compared to, say, Slayer who are infinitely more fast and loud and awesome and had the power to rile parents and teachers up with mere sonics rather than message.

Why are (some) kids so miserable? I NEVER had that attitude when I was a teenager and frankly I dislike people making a buck off of kids' alienation instead of inspiring them to participate in society. I'm not in a position to judge music i don't listen to a lot (maybe Limp Bizkit have decent material), but the way it is presented to youth like it identifies with their alienation or "anger" .... a day looking through teen blogs and the way they present themselves online will tell you that the alienation motif has been quite successful.

idk sometimes you need to feel the way you feel

Is "alienation" a feeling or is it a matter of how you view the world?

u can feel alienated

I suppose so, but I always think of alienation as a kind of consciousness, you think about it and decide whether to continue to "feel" that way or live in that condition. Of course when you're young and have to get through school and are not accustomed to making difficult decisions, it is probably easier to experience alienation as an emotional state rather than a social position.

except that violent music always made me feel better and less alienated when i was a kid. i felt like i wasn't alone.

but, on the other hand, wallowing is just good old-fashioned teen behaviour. like live skull used to say: "wallow in it, babyface". i did a lot of that too.

too much of anything is probably bad for you. or alienates you from society. but society is really overrated. music is much more fun than most people.

no fuck u scott all music should be totally happy all the time. ill staple it into yr face.

"Violent music" might be cathartic and empowering to kids who perceive a violent society. Depends on the sentiments and the way they are conveyed, for example a lot of heavy metal might seem aggressive and angry but it is angry about violence and injustice. Funny how parents never get upset about sensitive singers singing about their personal problems.

I mean, it sounds like it might be fun to be in Napalm Death, sounds like it might be difficult to be a "respected" singer-songwriter, surely that is daunting for a lot of young people, because they grow up in a competitive world.

Dan - I wasn't arguing that AIDS Wolf is well-known. I was arguing that they are known to people outside their fan base, because someone upthread was saying that they weren't.

Things I know about AIDS wolf:

1. Their name is AIDS wolf
2. ???

^^^^

^^^exactly

i think what's important is that the people who do hear it, cirumstantially or unwillingly, get offended. so i guess if no one really ever heard your anal microphone noize band until they popped in an ANAILNOIZEGRIND tape or went to see u at a house show ya u would not expose that many unwilling ears to it. but aids wolf play with punk bands & cool psych bands a lot, and id bet are always the most unbearable band on the bill, at least in my experience. seen them play w wet hair, fucked up, black feelings. lots of people leave during their sets. also they're playing a big festival here soon with like quebecois chart pop stars. anyways this is obviously due to me living in mtl, they probably tour with more likeminded bands

what ever happened to eXtreme Elvis?

i think what's important is that the people who do hear it, cirumstantially or unwillingly, get offended.

this was what i was trying to get at upthread.

re: Extreme Elvis - haven't heard about any shows recently - last one i recall was about 5 years ago at an Oakland warehouse - show was billed as Altamont 2 or something like that.

uh but it sounds more like people who hear it unwillingly dislike it, which is not the same as get offended by it.

i suggest we test this theory & have someone sneak up be justen right now and start blasting an aids wolf record out real loud

program it into the soundtrack at your local shopping mall

also the number of people who hear it "unwillingly" (dunno how going to a show you bought tickets for qualifies as unwillingly btw) is still really small. I mean do Fucked Up sell out the Concord Pavilion? no

xp

program it into the soundtrack at your local shopping mall

I support these suggestions

but yeah its more like extreme revulsion than offensiveness. i get offended though

heh actually i am prob not yer best test subject tbh xposts

dont think the scale should take into account how many people actually hear it though, how many people actually heard anal cunt or napalm death? otherwise this would just be like, justin timberlake licking janet jacksons tits at the superbowl or whatever

Shakey - you're fixated on this large number of people thing - i mean, the number of people that have actually exposed themselves to Anal Cunt is pretty small too.

and fwiw I think the unwilling thing is really key - like, it was entirely possible that a hapless parent might stumble upon WASP's "Fuck Like a Beast" while perusing their local Wherehouse record selection and be appalled that their child could conceivably buy it and hear it if they so chose. Again, this kind of exposure is predicated on a system that is built around a limited number of outlets, with attendant "gatekeepers" etc. And that system is gone. I don't know how anyone could genuinely "stumble" upon AIDS Wolf by accident without some preconceived notion of what to expect.

aren't they using classical music to drive away youths from storeshop curbs?
bach more offensive than aids wolf, clearly

uh - kid listening to AIDS Wolf in bedroom - "hapless parent" overhears it

consider this, though: ppl who go to fucked up shows like nasty punk rock music, and even w/in that highly desensitized group, a good portion of them leave during an aw set

I heard Napalm Death in high school because they were written up in the British press and I'd bet solid money they sold more records/were exposed to a larger audience than AIDS Wolf ever will

xp

I just remember the part in "Standard Operating Procedure" where they are playing music to torture Abu Ghraib prisoners. They try hip-hop and the prisoners eventually starting singing along. Then they tried heavy metal and that didn't do it. They finally played modern country and the prisoners started begging to be let out of their cells.

Napalm Death had a larger audience, Anal Cunt had a comparable-sized audience

i think sonically at least, aids wolf is a pretty good answer to the question

What is the most self-concsioucly volatile/abstrusive/offensive music around right now?

but prob not the right answer to whatever question shakey is trying to answer

uh - kid listening to AIDS Wolf in bedroom - "hapless parent" overhears it

I'm sure this happens but again there is no concerned parents group boycotting AIDS Wolf shows etc. In fact, I can't think of a single noise band that's garnered any large-scale, public, media-blowback at all. Because nobody cares.

xp

wasn't napalm death on a BBC kids show hosted by Lister from Red Dwarf?

yeah but there isnt some media outrage about AIDS wolf, i mean a lot of the offensive stuff in the past was thanks to it being a banner waving issue for peeps that wanted to indict rap in general for gangster rap, or metal for death metal, so you got tons of coverage of geto boys or cannibal corpse. the media doesnt give a shit about noise music, so the chances of AIDS wolf getting the noteriety of napalm death or anal cunt is like zero as long as theres another "videogames encourage you to beat and kill prostitutes" feeding trough around the corner. xxxxposts

they aren't getting dropped from their label like Ice-T, venues that sell their products aren't being shut down by law enforcement, there is no PMRC, there's nothin

xp

looking forward to the Oprah episode where she worries about whether or not noise bands are corruptin the youth tho (cf Wendy O Williams and Luke Skyyyywalker on Donahue)

I'm sure this happens but again there is no concerned parents group boycotting AIDS Wolf shows etc. In fact, I can't think of a single noise band that's garnered any large-scale, public, media-blowback at all. Because nobody cares.

just because the concerned parents aren't organizing boycotts on a large scale doesn't mean they aren't offended or don't care

listening to some tunes right now & yknow aids wolf are a pretty good band if youre in the mood

what was that group that pranked judge judy for killing their cat?
that cat had the coolest name which i forget.

'm just having difficulty thinking of a band like Anal Cunt or Napalm Death or Nasenbluten or Ice-T or Necro or someone

fwiw I'm answering THIS question samosa, and AIDS Wolf is not like any of these bands - all of whom received severe public backlash (and enjoyed ensuing notoriety)

xp

also i think nowadays all their lyrics are gibberish, not v offensive rly

in terms of mass outrage, probably most of it is along the lines of music being racist or homophobic.

just because the concerned parents aren't organizing boycotts on a large scale doesn't mean they aren't offended or don't care

if they don't care enough to register their offense in any meaningful way, are they really offended?

in terms of mass outrage, probably most of it is along the lines of music being racist or homophobic.

nah homophobic music is totally acceptable to the general public

ok gotcha. i mean, nothing you guys are saying is wrong rly

their drummer is fuckin rad, live he's the coolest too. he's like if animal was french canadian and a cave man

xxp - fuck i can't remember that band's name - they're from Baltimore and friends of friends

Shakey - they could very well register their offense in a meaningful way to their kid(s)!

what was that group that pranked judge judy for killing their cat?

that would be teeth mountain

so glad that necrobios link will be just above the fold for all time

courtesy of last.fm

AIDS Wolf
256,893 plays (23,401 listeners)

Anal Cunt
2,488,633 plays (75,679 listeners)

Napalm Death
7,358,756 plays (169,441 listeners)

just fyi

re: teeth mountain -- oh yeah it was "Trips" the cat. poor cat!

judge judy seemed offended by all the bandmates, but she always seems offended.

the post trial interviews were hilarious

to put that further in perspective, local hyperoffensive now defunct deathgrind band Anal Blast has 230,710 plays and 15,209 listeners

Shakey - they could very well register their offense in a meaningful way to their kid(s)!

I dunno... until it registers in the public sphere this is basically all a) conjecture and b) dismissable as anecdotal and not reflective of any larger phenomenon. Say what you will about the merits of 2 Live Crew or Napalm Death, they were in the public eye in a way that AIDS Wolf is not. The hand-wringing that went on over that stuff was loud and pervasive - you had school boards issuing policies about the threat of satanic metal, you had law enforcement going after performers, you had widespread media bloviating about it, etc.

xp

to put that further in perspective, most of America doesn't have a last.fm account

lol

And I bet most of america has never heard of aids wolf

xp - you're the one concerned with larger phenomena - i'm just interested in what bands/musicians are making volatile/abstruse/offensive music.

lol at the name "Anal Blast"

was "Fart" to prosaic or something

grr "too"

Was it Napalm Death or Cannibal Corpse that was in Ace Ventura?

yes you are right, i am sure that AIDS wolf is probably suffering greatly by only being measured by the hip obsessive music cataloging crowd, we should probably do a survey in the grand forks mall to get a more accurate picture of their tremendous following xpost to sarahel

cannibal corpse
xp

oh DJP i am both sad and overjoyed for you that you never experienced anal blast.

I don't know, I've had some pretty vicious burritos

i'm not arguing that they have a tremendous following or that tons of people are familiar with them.
My point was that AIDS Wolf are familiar to people outside their fanbase - this has been backed up by samosa.

But maybe you're just making shit up because it's more fun that way?

omg Anal Blast is on Youtube

omg they are terrible

props for using "Menstrual Pancake" as a song title though

rip don decker :(

yeah sarahel and my point is that they are familiar to people outside their fanbase because

1. i have heard their name and that name is AIDS wolf

and your point about peeps being familiar with them is apparently supported by the idea that

2. people have inadvertantly seen them play live and not liked it

which doesnt really make them important enough to talk about re: this discussion

re: cannibal corpse -- do you guys give any credence to the wikipedia theory that Jim Carrey is a big booster of the scene and instrumental in their inclusion?

otherwise this would just be like, justin timberlake licking janet jacksons tits at the superbowl or whatever

also i want to know how samosa got his hands on the director's cut of super bowl xxxviii!

can I just say that entire situation still enrages me, like how the hell did it end up that Janet got crucified for that shit

also can I say that Anal Blast has a song called "Tampon Teabag"

I wasn't even the one who brought them up, dude -- I've seen them live about half a dozen times. I like them. I don't see them as a particularly offensive band like Anal Cunt or Whitehouse or Costes

menses was a persistent them with this band, huh

uh yeah

i think ppl have heard of them because of the name...but anyway read shakey's posts upthread, he's got some good points about how to be truly "shocking" you have to have a large pop culture stature, not just like a weird rock band that people on ILM have heard of

― a strapping 40-year-old caorni rapper at a party (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so you're saying we should measure shock potential by number of people potentially shocked?

― sarahel, Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

the answer is yes! that's one angle people are discussing

wtf I hate my keyboard

themE

xp - yes, it is one angle, and it's worth discussing - but semi-obscure offensive bands are also worth discussing - like Anal Blast's menses obsession.

And saying this music isn't offensive because not enough people have been offended by it is a pretty specious argument

it would be, yes, but that isn't how people were talking about it

that seemed to be Shakey's argument

my favorite bit of anal blast/don decker apocrypha is that thx to his questionable stage behaviour choices he was required to bring his own microphones with him to all venues in the twin cities.

so was there actually an anal blast?

haha...i remember dumpster juice used to bring their own beer in a cooler just so the big fat dude could drink enough...we opened for them once and i counted, he had 9 tallboys during their set, including a full one drank entirely during one guitar solo

xpost

yeah sarah1, anal blast was a metal band from mpls, but only like 47 dudes liked them i think

jjusten do you remember Video Nasty?

only 47 dudes saw them, but each of the went to take their own shit in the corner of the terminal bar

looooool

xp - no i believe this band existed, what i wanted to know was whether their set involved literal anal explosions

I think the argument was more you could be the most offensive band on the face of the Earth but if only 2000 people ever actually hear you, your offensiveness is going to have a negligible impact.

Like all of these goregrind bands try to out-offensive each other but since hardly anyone actually listens to them it doesn't particularly matter (when one of their fans happens to commit a spectacularly brutal crime that may all change but not really because of the music itself, but because of the boneheaded thing the fan did, whereas with the examples cited in Ice T/Body Count and 2 Live Cru you actually had mass-market weight behind stuff that the environment of the time decided were beyond the pale, so a lot more objection to the music itself was being raised) (also zomg scary black rappers).

only 47 dudes saw them, but each of the went to take their own shit in the corner of the terminal bar

― goole, Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:37 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i won't put this in the excelsior thread but if there was a TC specific one i would A+

man fuck the terminal bar

the negligible impact of a literal anal blast

the culture at large appears to have moved onto pomme frites as subjects of scandal.

actually m@tt i dont remember video nasty, what was it?

And saying this music isn't offensive because not enough people have been offended by it is a pretty specious argument

I look forward to your thesis clearly explaining how something can be offensive while simultaneously not actually offending anybody.

or what DJP said - like, yes, the NUMBER OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY OFFENDED matters in judging how offensive something is. If no one is offended, how can something be considered offensive?

being the shitty minneapolis version of big v's is no way to live

actually m@tt i dont remember video nasty, what was it?

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:40 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ah this kinda "shocking" chuggy punk band from the mid/late 90s...think like the first Fear record type stuff...anyway the main dude was this super weirdo eastern european (or something) dude name vitali or some shit, he used to wear this outfit that was made out of electrician's tape but with a vacuum cleaner sticking out of his crotch...figured you may have seen them at some point

like "this is offensive" and "nobody cares" are mutually exclusive, y'know?

i look forward to your dissertation about how 1000 or 53 or 7 actually equals 0.

it doesn't equal zero, but it's significantly less than the multiple thousands offended by the bands listed in the initial post. like, exponentially less.

sarah1

also i was arguing something slightly different from sheer numbers...

i.e. the fact that when you see some transgressive noise shit smearing duct tape underwear retard version of swans type band in the basement of an abandoned hardware store, the crowd isn't really being "shocked" in any meaningful way because said crowd is likely made out of beyond jaded noise/underground lifers who have seen the same exact schtick like 8 zillion times

i gotta say i'm not forward to any of these dissertations

looking

whoops

xp - agreed, but when you say "nobody cares" that translates as "zero people care" - and I doubt that is true.

or "so few people care that it doesn't matter"

I look forward to your thesis clearly explaining how something can be offensive while simultaneously not actually offending anybody.

the attempt to offend or "be offensive" doesn't necessarily guarantee outrage, especially if your music is heard by relatively few people. and this is a thread, in the OP's words, about artists who "go deliberately out of their way to incite controversy or at least cause offense." not one about those who actually do cause such reactions, regardless of their intentions.

i.e. the fact that when you see some transgressive noise shit smearing duct tape underwear retard version of swans type band in the basement of an abandoned hardware store, the crowd isn't really being "shocked" in any meaningful way because said crowd is likely made out of beyond jaded noise/underground lifers who have seen the same exact schtick like 8 zillion times

^^^right and I agree with this and am figuring this into my calculus - i.e., these people are not offended.

does anyone kill animals onstage anymore

this is a thread, in the OP's words, about artists who "go deliberately out of their way to incite controversy or at least cause offense." not one about those who actually do cause such reactions, regardless of their intentions.

okay yeah that's a fair point. in which case maybe AIDS Wolf IS going out of their way to incite controversy (I can only assume so) but ... well, they don't seem to be any good at it. Because no such controversy has been incited.

I think i'm just a sensitive person that sees a lot of extreme music/performance - because i can see that hundreds of times and still feel grossed out

and yes, fuck the terminal bar for sure, although anal blast was more of a ryans corner institution iirc xxpostsots ok wait actually i think i did see video nasty at one point! they were just awful

funny how being totally awful seems to go hand in hand with these bands

and it raises the question of who they're trying to incite/offend - their audience WANTS to see whatever noisy/in-your-face antics they indulge in. If they wanted to actually shock their audience - beyond jaded noise/underground lifers who have seen the same exact schtick like 8 zillion times - they would probably have to cover themselves in corporate sponsorships and do some Michael Buble-style smooth crooning or something.

xp

^^ i've seen that a bunch too

"go deliberately out of their way to incite controversy or at least cause offense."

is anyone doing this more successfully today than conservative talk shows or say... mel gibson?

like part of being genuinely offensive/controversial is deliberately flauting expectations. like when US Maple opened for Pavement lol (this was the funniest case of a band antagonizing an audience I'd ever seen btw)

xp

mel just wants to be loved Philip.

and then tortured.

the thing that i find interesting is that all of the old usual suspects (hardcore/metal/rap doodz) dont even bother with the SHOCKING LIVE SHOW anymore, like you see some hardcore european ott metal band and at the end its all smiles and "thanks you so much for coming out so late for tonight goodbye until the later then!" at the end.

US Maple are awesome

omg

I should throw on a thong and croon lite jazz standards at ppl while throwing raw meat patties on them and making at least one noun in each line of the lyrics a racial slur

wait, no I shouldn't

i guess thats why noise stuff just doesnt hit any shock buttons for me i mean oooh wow you are naked and rolling around on the ground its like the last 20 years of this shit but you are wearing neon glitter yaaaaaawwnn

xpost yes you should

DJP you just might be the groundbreaking avant-superstar this thread is calling for

^^ i could probably find you a gig if you were to do that

hey guys remember the 80s performance artist scene

seems like andrew WK was doing a half-decent job of offending (or at least bewildering) both the noise/art audience and the pop audience for a while there, in the manner that shakey suggests, before mysterious "legal troubles" sank his pop career. arguably still doing so afterwards.

wish I could find a GIS result for Groening's "Annoying Performance Artist Magazine" Life in Hell strip

like part of being genuinely offensive/controversial is deliberately flauting expectations. like when US Maple opened for Pavement lol (this was the funniest case of a band antagonizing an audience I'd ever seen btw)

xp

― you can sub out "bipartisan solutions" for "some of my dick" (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:51 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

US Maple are awesome

― sarahel, Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:52 PM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

YES!

maple is the greatest...yeah they were antagonistic in such a cool, weird way....

i remember hearing the record and thinking they would be real inward, shoegazer math weirdos...but then i saw them perform and Al was doing all his weird mannerisms and tics, sometimes not even singing into the mic, or putting the mic in his pocket...and rittman would be staring daggers into everyone in that sort of aristocratic way.....they had these mannerisms that would suggest to you that they were playing these anthemic rockers, juxtaposed against music that was pulling the rhythmic rug out from under you about every 20 seconds....

they would make ppl really angry, even dudes that loved jesus lizard and stuff like that

oooh AWK is a good one. his pop leanings irritated the noiseniks, but his weirdo art-noise antics befuddled the mainstream...

I kinda love him

(cont)

but at the same time maple didn't feel like kool guy NYC art scene thurston moore shit, sort of weird inbred midwest slang

wait, people get OFFENDED by Andrew WK, aka The Most Affable Man Who Is Not "Weird Al" Yankovic?

Andrew WK is an interesting case - thanks for bringing him up

yeah US Maple cracked me up, I loved seeing their set. People were throwing shit, booing and the guitarist is doing Pete Townsend windmills and Joan Jett leg-kicks like he's playing "We Will Rock You" instead of some bizarre Beefheart-jazz riffs

xp

they were doing that around the same time as the infamous Chicago Sound shows, right?

HI DERE, did you see bile open up for someone with me back in the day? thats the last time i can actually recall a local media outrage.

xpost: i have seen Brick Layer Cake ruin the evening of many a noise leaning skinny pants dude drinking at the Uptown Bar, yes indeed. i would actually put them in the running for aurally offending more people that i have known than just about anybody

wait, people get OFFENDED by Andrew WK, aka The Most Affable Man Who Is Not "Weird Al" Yankovic?

oh yeah, so much so that the first album cover was censored. (a very telling incident imho)

ike you see some hardcore european ott metal band and at the end its all smiles and "thanks you so much for coming out so late for tonight goodbye until the later then!" at the end.

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:52 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

watain recently played in town. i didn't go, but hear from others who did that they hung rotting meat (like whole pig heads and such) over lit candles on stage, so that the rotting meat cooked and wafted as they played. the whole venue supposedly reeked of decaying flesh. some were offended, or at least overwhelmed. perhaps those who wish to offended should concentrate on less jaded senses, like smell and taste.

crud. "perhaps those who wish to offend..."

I have no recollection of ever seeing Bile.

lol I had forgotten about the album cover controversy, so I retract that incredulousness

Are there any non-rightwing acts you guys would rather not endure if the alternative is ann coulter?
(i could see how there could be contenders for more unendurable in the right-wingaverse, like say gallagher)

i went to see wavves a year or so back and was hella offended

haaaaaa

wait what...? too many double negatives in that sentence Phillip

is anyone still offended by Boyd Rice these days

xxxp - yeah, the last "offensive" performance i remember hearing about locally was a friend of mine cutting a laptop in half, and the offense was entirely due to smoke and smell

oh youd remember if youd seen Bile HI DERE, they're the only band i know of that was officially banned from the twin cities. it appears that having huge video screens showing violent hardcore porn at an all age show was considered a no no by law enforcement in the early 90s.

there was also live fisting, but despite what the papers said i am pretty sure that was simulated

yes I am sure I would have remembered that

xxxp: setting off stink bombs/spraying mace at shows = new vanguard

except for the fact that SRL has been doing that for over a decade

That show must have been during the school year because I'm pretty sure I would have gone with you had it been in the summer or during one of our breaks (I vividly remember hyperextending my elbow at Mr Bungle, for example)

boyd rice always struck me as a parody of a clean-cut right-winger that is actually a right-winger underneath the parody.
what i mean is, in order to be offensive on any meaningful level, wouldn't you have to adopt right-wing tactics?
inserting things into orifices only feel offensive if they are somehow accompanied by Reaganism is what I'm trying to say.

they did a Berkeley show about 7 years ago involving a cannon and a very large amount of patchouli

so glad that scott's giant xxx maniak graphic is above the break

they did a Berkeley show about 7 years ago involving a cannon and a very large amount of patchouli

lol

if confrontational is what were looking for here, thread needs more oxbow btw

lol apparently I own albums with Bile tracks on them

who knew?

xp - the one time i saw Oxbow they did an acoustic set and it was pretty non-confrontational

xxxp - yeah, the last "offensive" performance i remember hearing about locally was a friend of mine cutting a laptop in half, and the offense was entirely due to smoke and smell

my roommate at the time was very excited about this (people were talking about how laptops have harmful chemicals or whatever that could have been released, etc). he also booked a justice yeldham show, which was i guess mildly controversial to a limited # of people but is essentially just sub-gg antics with a jaded underground noise-lifer twist

i have thrown stuffed animals at pavement fans. but i'm kinda cuddlecore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8isf1TK3S8

i know your former roommate quite well.

unless you're talking about N@than - i only kinda know that dude.

ya i mean him. i'm sure you probably know lots of my former roommates actually

world = too motherfucking small

i helped paint one of the rooms in that house - and then they all moved out a couple months later

xpost: i have seen Brick Layer Cake ruin the evening of many a noise leaning skinny pants dude drinking at the Uptown Bar, yes indeed. i would actually put them in the running for aurally offending more people that i have known than just about anybody

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:59 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha dude this is soooo OTM....brick layer cake can piss off a crowd like nothing else..

i can't remember what main room show it was but he was opening up for someone kinda big (like maybe superchunk? fugazi? anyway some band that woulda been friends with the shellac dudes)....and anyway trainer gets done with one of the seemingly eeeeendlesssssssss slow-motion goth-goes-touch&go songs and stops....you can literally like hear a pin drop, not one fucking single clap....he steps back, steps back up to the mic and intones in his dracula voice. "THAAAANK YOU." then goes right back into another song that sounds exactly the same.....i fucking laughed so hard

haha, the black room right? crazy.

anyway. sorry to derail thread. just thought i'd bring up noise guy who rubs broken glass on his face as a contender.

fwiw i think that political climate has a lot to do with people being touted as symbols of offensiveness in music, a lot more so than the acts themselves

yes, the black room. ... and the broken glass guy is Australian and has been doing his thing for a while. Though that show ended up where it did because one of the bands on the bill at the first venue asked - who had had that night booked, and broken glass guy would have been an addition to said bill - thought broken glass guy would be too offensive/unpleasant.

Brick Layer Cake seems to be kind of my type of thing

like this is what I was hoping Jonathan Richman was going to be like when I saw him with a college buddy

Beyonce's new perfume advert has been banned from being shown during the day for being too "sexually provocative".

feels like there might be some potential offending to be done in the sensitive-acoustic-indie-singer-songwriter genre — I'm thinkin' of that sufjan stevens song about john wayne gacey, only strip out the christianity and add more surreal cruelty — maybe needs to be done straight-faced/minimally self-aware? — at any rate I guarantee you will lose some fans when you start breathily falsetto-ing abt one summer when you were 9 and you pinned the neighbor's dog down so your friend could slit open its belly and get his favorite action figure back.

it would definitely have to be done straightfaced

perhaps by underrated aerosmith lol

there's always Cocorosie

hmm that's a good example. I can't say their intentions are exactly clear with said offending material (do intentions matter here? OP notes self-consciousness as being a key thing, so maybe)

vampy weekend

girl talk, apparently

and vampire weekend is a pretty good answer too! which suggests it's easier to be aesthetically offensive than lyrically offensive these days.

i'm picturing a heart surgeon who is unable to perform without hearing "all star" by smashmouth on the OR boombox, and the assisting staff bears with it the first couple times but eventually they revolt in the middle of surgery, till finally a mediator is brought in and they negotiate down to "you're the best" theme to karate kid.

Vampire Weekend? What the fuck? That is the most tasteful, milquetoast shit ever.

dudes in the b9 locker room weirdly offended by tinsel teeth

http://sidekick.theb9.com/pages-topic/773100/1

i watched this cuz i got an email that said it was "completely disturbing" and thought it might be fodder for this thread, but i think you'd have to be, um, i dunno, maybe one of the old ladies trying to give me a copy of the watchtower on my front lawn yesterday in order to find it disturbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I11pgTCli3c

So tinsel teeth is a band with a female singer with a strap on dildo? It's not exactly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ONHPybwD8s or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oaypp7r2_g or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcOswXnywA or "My Uncle Shoots Heroin" or even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psvCUWzecGo or even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5d8N0j5e9w or Carcass or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JugsG7KYPJA or w/e.

All these examples are years old now.

oh i got sent that gangrene/oh no album the other day and noticed that "i think we're dead" sample. made me larf while i was doing the washing up.

Also, I realise all these examples are considered just LOL now that Chris Morris and Eminem and Chris Cunningham and Tom Green and Rammstein have all broken the mainstream since they came out. I guess there's no room for extremism any more.

dog latin please stop confusing "extreme" with "puerile"

like seriously imagine you're the age you are now when those came out - they'd seem just as un-extreme as their equivalents now. you've totally refused to engage w/concepts of offensiveness and being offended in this thread ("no, not gaga!") - stop tryna reclaim your youth by focusing on one really narrow band of ~offensive~ music and recognise that it's as tame as everything you're writing off these days. why not look at what's ACTUALLY offending people in 2010, not some idea of what should be.

for "room for" i'd put in "point to"

dudes in the b9 locker room weirdly offended by tinsel teeth

http://sidekick.theb9.com/pages-topic/773100/1

― death panel of the mods (Edward III), Friday, 19 November 2010 01:52 (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I hate myself for clicking on that knowing exactly what it would be like

b9 is probably the most depressing messageboard I've ever read that isn't for, like, bestiality enthusiasts or some other specific perversion

xps sounds like you find the boringness of dog latin's idea of offensiveness... offensive

http://www.northweststate.edu/community/Media_Room/images/logos/it_makes_you_think.jpg

Lex, I'm not anti-Gaga FTR, but please tell me how her music could be classed as extreme? Sure there's an image and an action behind it, but the music itself is relatively palletable.

Also - don't know why I'm bothering to rise to this but w/e - the day I stop tryna reclaim (my) youth by focusing on one really narrow band (narrow? I believe I have mentioned gabba, horrorcore, black metal, grindcore, breakcore, noise and countless other genres here, but I guess you can't tell the difference huh?) of ~offensive~ music is the day you stop poking your head into such threads, like some sort of pop-cop, telling everyone the music they want to discuss is "childish" or "puerile" whilst trying to convince us that Lindsey Lohan is the new Extreme Noise Terror. IMO it's you trying to map your own narrow worldview onto territory that seems to be entirely alien to you.

I think there are many parallels between being offensive and being puerile. But ITT I'm not asking people about drink-driving celebs or even necessarily art-wankers smearing themselves with effluent to the sound of an out of tune violin in a Williamsberg loft-gallery (this is something that has always been going on in one shape or form since the Beat days and has more to do with performance art than music).

And also, people ITT are ruminating too much on the semantics of the word "offensive" - I do not mean offensive as in "it offends a lot of people", rather "it has an offensive attitude" - aggressive might have been a better word, but I also stipulated volatile and abstruse.

I'm sort of repeating myself here but tbh I think people are naturally grativating more toward talking about broader and/or more abstract (maybe more populist or mass media) ideas of 'offensive' because there's no real yardstick for what the word means here... like I think that XXX Maniak sleeve that Scott posted back there was the grossest thing that's been mentioned so far, thus perhaps the most 'offensive', but the fact that it exists doesn't tell us anything other than that there's a tiny subculture of people trying to outdo each other, ie it's basically 'The Aristocrats: the metal years'

also this is even more of a parlour game than it would be anyway cos there's no-one posting from the side of the perma-offended... I don't really know what music is actively pissing off Mediawatch or Focus on The Family or whoever at this point, don't get the impression that anyone iit does either

*itt

I can't see anyone being offended by lady gaga's actual music. Apart from the usual "oh its so bad it offends my ears" thing that has been applied by someone to almost all music ever made.

Mencap, as I said upthread, I don't personally believe that "offensiveness" in this context should necessarily be about how many people it offends, and yes this is a parlour game - red: offensive as in "appealing to people who enjoy aggressive or extreme music", and take that as we will. Although, yeah it's harder to imagine something like ENT appearing with the KLF at the Brit Awards happening nowadays.

I don't necessarily believe that either but I really think it's an idea whose definition is so elusive that you kind of have to let everyone say their piece (which makes it a good thread idea imo)

sure sure. i just find lex's posting style kind of offensive sometimes... ;-)

Seems we're getting bogged down in semantics rather than discussing and suggesting music ITT - as I say, "offensive" was probably the wrong word to use. Something like anti-social, aggressive, belligerent or extreme would have meant less confusion I suppose, so it's my fault.

In summary then, lots of people are making "offensive" music (to use DLs definition) but nobody gives a fuck cos times have changed and the parents that used to be horrified by Slayer now are unlikely to be horrified by questionable song themes because they all used to be punks anyway. Parents are more likely to be horrified by computer games that give you points for killing prostitutes than devil-worshipping rockers.

Suppose so!

But does this mean that music has now lost its potency to offend or incite "extreme" (in this definition of the term) feelings?

I guess you could find parallels with something like Beatlemania, which simply wouldn't happen and is unlikely to happen ever again.

'The Aristocrats: the metal years'

No-one's mentioned Whitehouse so far and they are still putting out albums that are plenty anti-social, aggressive, belligerent and extreme.

I remember my parents telling me they couldn't believe their ears when John Lennon said "fuck" on Plastic Ono Band. These days I couldn't possibly tell you if an album had swears on it or not.

btw does it count as 'taking offense' when a cop and/or uncool waspy bro scowls at and/or arrests u for 'blasting your music' [via your speaker setup having 'a shitton of fucking bass'] — what about when older ppl shake their heads and 'wonder what the world is coming 2' — what I am trying to say is, willow smith is the most offensive artist working now. at least that's what her video told me.

also I bet animal collective has offended a decent number of squares/non-freaks in the past couple years. mostly aesthetically, but I'm guessing there a plenty of cases where there was an element of social criticism that work that tends to become sort-of indistinguishable from moral outrage: "look at these fucking hipsters...." etc

*"there ARE plenty", "criticism AT work"

animal collective have definitely offended me in the past.

I guess you could find parallels with something like Beatlemania, which simply wouldn't happen and is unlikely to happen ever again.

http://www.lesbianhaircuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Justin-Bieber-lesbian.jpg

http://gawker.com/5409943/the-long-island-tween-justin-bieber-riot-of-09-pandemonium-arrests-terror+tweeting

he also booked a justice yeldham show, which was i guess mildly controversial to a limited # of people but is essentially just sub-gg antics with a jaded underground noise-lifer twist

I know this isn't too far off the mark descriptively but it really does Justice Yeldham a disservice. Saw him play and a) I really liked the sounds he produced, and b) he came across as a majorly affable dude. I wouldn't say he was offensive, just not for the squeamish. And yeah, maybe don't stand at the front of the crowd unless you want to be covered by glass and blood.

beiber dude reminds me of the old nambla newsletter headline i read once in an article about that fine group years and years ago: "Elijah...Wood He?"

No-one's mentioned Whitehouse so far and they are still putting out albums that are plenty anti-social, aggressive, belligerent and extreme.

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 19 November 2010 13:59 (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eh well they broke up three years ago... the Consumer Electronics album from last year is great but I think it was in an edition of 500 so not really breaking through to the uninitiated y'know

think they are 'officially' on hiatus, but they were never as unwholesome etc once sotos left

I have it in my head that they got written up in the Sun in like the mid-80s (wrt noise bands who Joe Public actually get to hear about) but I can't find any proof of this

I know Bennett and what happened was he announced that the group was over after Best left but then he had a change of heart and said he would continue under the group name. So you could call it a hiatus I guess but there will definitely be more Whitehouse product in the future. Whitehouse has always been a vehicle for Bennett whoever else is officially in the group anyway. As for "wholesome" they were at their most unwholesome well before Sotos joined.

As regards the thread topic I brought them up b/c dog latin clarified his terms to include "anti-social, aggressive, belligerent or extreme". which kind of means that whether they break through to the uninitiated is not really here or there. my point being that their recent work still fits that description well.

its funny i don't have a problem with whitehouse's music its the vocals that drive me crazy. (and why i don't listen to them)

I think Bennett's vocals are great but on the last few albums Best did most of the vocals and I agree they aren't nearly as good

I prefer Best's lyrics by and large - I hope that more Whitehouse biz does get released but for me at least that'll be a big missing piece

it was as recently as... maybe 2004 that they had a show in Bristol pulled because someone phoned a threat into the venue saying what "would" happen if the gig went ahead - so not literally right now but in a markedly different era than 'Cop Killer' or whatever

First thing I think of when reading this thread title is Billy Bao.
I gave that record to my misanthrope friend.

Think that Whitehouse thing was 2003?

yeah I kind of heard about it after the fact so yr prob right - either way I'm pretty sure ppl were making the same "there's no *real* offensive music any more" arguments back then as have been positied here

Justice Yeldham's a class act and a great bloke, even though he bled all over the living room couch when he crashed at ours after a local gig.

haha. that's a great image.

Justice is a whole different kettle from GG.
For one thing, he makes some cool and creative music.
Never seen him live, but the footage I've seen, he doesn't seem deliberately confrontational. People get freaked out by all the blood, but it's not like he's throwing his shit at them or trying to start fights.....

answer here is eric clapton, apparently

he's a cunt!

No-one's mentioned Whitehouse so far and they are still putting out albums that are plenty anti-social, aggressive, belligerent and extreme.

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 19 November 2010 13:59 (42 minutes ago)

I don't see them as a particularly offensive band like Anal Cunt or Whitehouse or Costes

― sarahel, Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:21 PM (2 days ago)

just sayin'

Camille Paglia is on record as finding Lady Gaga offensive. just sayin

dude too late thirdalternative appears to have gone :(

Maybe these vids belong on that other thread? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1lFpyMYDhs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xKdKaAjw-o

So, the flipside to these questions is, "When did music stop being offended by society"?

What musicians are out there right now that are just fucking outraged?

Wow, there is just nothing more boring than Whitehouse.

saw whitehouse with wolf eyes in like 2006 or so? 2005? insanely boring. plus the most ridiculously pretentious group of fans i've ever encountered at a concert of any any kind, ever. bun dem.

"What musicians are out there right now that are just fucking outraged?"

nintendo wiinage riot?

apparently Gene Simmons from KISS is a fan of AIDS Wolf

that sentence makes no sense to me. the words are all okay, but when you put them together, something goes wrong.

hope they do an album together

justice makes some cool sounds, i do give him that. didn't have the chance to talk to him or anything, but he definitely is more legit than my description indicated

He does - I remember it sounding like rly dark jungle basslines one time </coolstorybro>

Why does the Whitehouse song (and possibly album?) use the artwork for System Shock 2?

cuz it's some stupid fan video?

^feeling this DN

http://gossiponthis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/lilb.jpg

rain in england is hella offensive, but only if you spent money on it

haha otm

saw whitehouse with wolf eyes in like 2006 or so? 2005? insanely boring. plus the most ridiculously pretentious group of fans i've ever encountered at a concert of any any kind, ever. bun dem.

^^^ I think I probably would have loved this show

b's facial expression in that shot is extremely rare and based

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqzNiOFSpF0

AIDS Wolf just announced they have broken up

i was pretty offended by how shitty aids wolf was when i saw them.

but someone told me they are better now.

Yes. It frustrates me how true this is and how difficult it was to convince people it was the case.

2004?
http://www.discogs.com/Morsgatt-Butt-Mud/release/2924765

1 Anal 1 0:39
2 Nudist Razor Rape 1:52
3 Anal 222 0:36
4 Mongo Mosh 2:17
5 Butt Mud 2:58
6 Anal Anal Anal 0:30
7 Gastric Influenza 0:09
8 Shit On Her Clit 1:11
9 Anal 44 0:23
10 Horney Chicken Joints 2:04
11 Anal 5 0:07
12 Vulva Violator 1:33
13 Anal 666 0:20
14 Moray Masturbation Massacre 0:49
15 Anal 77 0:21
16 Whip You With My Old Shit Klister Hose 2:11
17 Anal 8 0:19
18 Cadaveric Gang Bang 0:39
19 Anal 969 0:10
20 Anal Armageddon 3:14
21 Attila 4:56
22 Dickcheese 2:44
23 Cheers Fuckface 2:32
24 Shit Explosion 0:33
25 Asses On Fire 0:38

o god that cover, lol

Has the band Jonbenet Ramsey been mentioned yet? Titles/lyrics here:

http://www.metallyrica.com/j/jonbenet_ramsey.html

"I've got it guys! We'll be an obvious rip-off of Anal Cunt, but with a pedophilia fixation! It's just the hook we need!"

lol @ "I Violently Masturbated To The Adventures Of Milo And Otis"

lol @ In The Incantation Song The Ibex Moon It Sounds Like They Say "Itchy Turtle"

this is still rap music by the way. people who hate rap music REALLY hate rap music and are completely offended by it when they hear it. millions of people in this country. young and old. i hear it all the time from people who come in my store. even people who listened to it when they were younger sound like santorum when they talk about what is out there now.

i never got this in DL's original post either:

"Seems that most extreme metal/noise/hip-hop/techno etc has a certain artistic direction or nuance that stops it from being simply loud and offensive for pretty much the sake of it... thoughts?"

i mean there is tons of music with very little nuance and that is loud and offensive for the sake of it.

a lot of this thread is about offensive music that never actually offends anyone because only fans of the music hear it. well i'm here to tell you rap is heard by a lot of people and people you never would have thought had vague KKK-ish tendencies all of a sudden have them when the subject of rap comes up.

yeah sure, but again, possible difference between "the most self-consciously volatile/abstruse/offensive music around" and whatever racists happen to froth about. not saying that rap can't be both...

i would say that there is a good percentage of popular rap that is self-consciously offensive. and that is volatile. i forget what abstruse means.

I think any latter-day merzbow attempting to be offensive on just a purely sonic level would find themselves outclassed by the arsenal and one-upsmanship of digital gadgetry at the disposal of any modern pop producer.

if you turn up a modern rock or nu-metal cd really loud merzbow is like OWWW! MAKE IT STOP! MY EARS! a victim of compression.