Pazz and Jop 2010

Just got my ballot.

Me too.

I haven't voted since 2006. Surprising, I don't miss it.

Haven't gotten my ballot yet, but I've begun relistening to my favourite albums to see what order my lists will be in/what will make them.

i got mine

i forget, is there a way to input albums & "save" the ballot? or was that just jackin pop?

got mine!

i forget, is there a way to input albums & "save" the ballot? or was that just jackin pop?

Usually you can.

i just realized like, last week, that my ballot on last year's P&J site is messed up, my top 2 albums are at #9 and #10 and everything else is two spots higher -- don't know if it was my fault but i'm gonna be really careful when i submit this year

K, ballot arrived.

100 points for Lil B.

lol @ "Hey Soul Sister" being the example song title in the e-mail announcement. that song's been just outside my top 10 but i'm kind of tempted to vote for it now.

Ballot received, submitted. I probably haven't even heard your favorite album, so I almost certainly didn't vote for it.

lol ok tough guy

What other job can someone legitimately brag about how little they know about doing their job?

I'm sure there's some dude that's working on the Hadron Collider that's all "Yeah I don't really care about the Higgs mechanism for generating elementary particle masses via electroweak symmetry."

his post isn't hilarious because he's saying "I don't know anything about music," it's hilarious because he's all "hey everyone sending me copies of your favorite album in 'For Your Consideration' envelopes, you can just stop it, I've made up my mind"

whoops, whiney's back
and cranky!
welcome back cranky man.

What other job can someone legitimately brag about how little they know about doing their job?

Dude, we've met face to face exactly once and I liked you then, and I enjoyed having you as a PTW editor. But your idea of what a music critic's job is is totally fucked and off-base. Has been pretty much as long as you've been doing it. Basically, you're frantically defibrillating a long-dead paradigm. Generalist, buffet-table pop criticism is dead. Specialist genre criticism is all that matters anymore, because listener communities are atomized, self-sealing and frequently hostile to outside input. I am a metal writer and a jazz writer, who occasionally writes about Latin music. I know who I'm writing for, and more importantly, I know who I'm not writing for. And I'm not gonna pretend to give a flying fuck about Taylor Swift or Kanye West just because all the other writers on my Twitter feed still think platinum-selling records "say" "something" "about" "the culture." There is no monoculture. Pick a niche and grind it out.

man, gis'ing "dogfight" to find an image to kick this back and forth off was one of the dumbest things i'm going to do today

Don't waste your time; I'm sure one or the other of us will be banned any minute now.

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploads/2008/06/clash-titans-remake-2.jpg

man i can't do anything right this morning. going back to bed.

i probably agree with more of that post than i disagree with, but man that was one scenery-chewing rant, man. you say your passion is metal and jazz, but are you sure it isn't The Theatre?

wait i have to go to work. never mind. bed so warm though...

Scott you're making me jealous. I'm already AT work and you're three hours ahead of me!

tbh i often worry that my dilettantism is counterproductive and weakens my ability to get my hands around the specifics or depths of a genre but when you're primarily a listener/promoter and only occasionally (and amateurishly) a critic in the way that i am, i think it's an apples and oranges debate.
vocationally... i dunno. i'd be curious to see you two duke it out on this point if you can keep it above the belt.

Eh, I'm as generalist as they come, maybe. Have been kind of forever. But I still don't get how "doing your job" necessarily equals "listening to the same records everybody else listens to." Just the opposite, a lot of the time. (Also don't think I agree with somedude, or have ever seen the "envelopes" he's referring to. After decades of voting in these polls, I'm pretty wary of albums that I suddenly convince myself I connect with in December, vote for, and then never listen to again. I haven't voted yet, probably won't for a couple weeks, but my ballot's fairly set in stone, I think. Even tentatively figured out the points last night. If some album gets released before December 31 and I wind up totally loving it, I can always stick in on next year's ballot.)

But I still don't get how "doing your job" necessarily equals "listening to the same records everybody else listens to."

Cosign eternally etc.

Also if/how you change a listener means a hell of a lot. I'm still actively engaged with music but I am not constantly marinating in it as I did when I was younger. I'm not going to force myself to return to that older pattern since that change actually gave me a lot of peace of mind and I'd be nuts to go back.

i might actually vote for the waka flocka album. and i only just heard it last week. but its addictive. so keep those cards and letters coming.

and i'd like to thank hell's headbangers records for the fruit basket.

Unperson, I like your blog and posts and writing on Latin music. But per your post on the 2010 magazine thread, you have also apparently decided that no metal, Latin, or jazz music is released after Thanksgiving (around the time your Wire ballot was due), and that you have heard everything in those genres for 2010 that you need to hear, already. I don't get that.

Chuck, you never miss anything through the year up to this point that interests you? You've heard all the Southern soul and country that might be of interest to you already?

No, of course not! I'm sure I've missed a ton. (More metal and hip-hop and Latin than country or soul these days.) Always do; it's impossible not to -- and I've probably heard a thousand or more albums this year. But I want to live with albums before I vote for them, so they can really sink in; forcefeeding at the last minute (in my case, anyway) just isn't reliable from a taste standpoint.

December releases always have the odds set against them as far as year-end lists are concerned, don't hold that against one guy.

OK, first off, just because you seemed to get this out of the way in your post: I'll add that yeah, none of this is personal and I loved working with you and I hope to work with you again, love following you on Twitter, and consider you a bro, etc etc etc. This is def nothing more personal than two peers having an online debate, so moderator forks needs to stop trying to turn this into BEEF IV

Anyway, obviously, I love your passion for jazz and metal, and you have def turned me on to a good record or two over the years. My problem is not that you refuse to listen to Kanye/Taylor/Grizzly Bear/etc, its that you always use your ignorance of pop music as a pole to raise you flag upon. Like, I can't fault anyone for not caring about Adam Lambert, I'm faulting you because you constantly think its grounds for bragging rights. And yeah, you are def right about the music audience getting more stratified and retreating to more insular worlds, but I generally see this as a BAD THING and its hard for me to wrap my head around not wanting to see these walls topple

xp I mean, the Pazz & Jop letter has always stressed "year of impact." If I hear anything new and great at this point, it's almost guaranteed to impact me more in 2011 than 2010.

What xhuxk said; plus, I know what labels' release schedules are, and I do know there's nothing coming out this month that might make its way onto my year-end lists.

Generalist, buffet-table pop criticism is dead. Specialist genre criticism is all that matters anymore, because listener communities are atomized, self-sealing and frequently hostile to outside input.

i think whiney's got his specialist thing going, too; i have a pretty good idea of what he'll think of a given album before he fires off a tweeted "review" a couple weeks after its release. he just likes to comment on what he doesn't like as well, which is where the generalist aspect comes into play. but really, if whiney likes the kanye album as much as sightings or yelawolf or dalek, why should he restrict himself to only talking about albums that fall under a specific genre umbrella? i'd say the unspoken reason you're a jazz and metal critic is that you enjoy listening to metal and jazz a lot; some writers prefer a more widescreen approach, instead of a specialist one. neither's right or wrong, and neither is "dead" -- just different approaches

my 2 cents

also, fuck a grizzly bear

My problem is not that you refuse to listen to Kanye/Taylor/Grizzly Bear/etc, its that you always use your ignorance of pop music as a pole to raise you flag upon. Like, I can't fault anyone for not caring about Adam Lambert, I'm faulting you because you constantly think its grounds for bragging rights.

Well, it's intended as more of a joke than it's maybe received as. But it ties into a larger point which is my view that a lot of (indie and pop) records are really only super fucking important to a few dozen critics who all follow each other on Twitter and Facebook, and who then jabber about them in terms that basically boil down to "You haven't heard this? This isn't hugely important to your life? What kind of person are you?" And my point is, well, the records that are super important to me are records so-called "generalist" critics would probably would look at like something they scraped off the bottom of their shoes. So I ridicule that whole approach for being a) attached to an utterly fictional idea of music audiences, and b) every bit as insular as headbangers or techno obsessives, while pretending to be all-inclusive.

ilxor,

i mean businesswise, there's no doubt that Phil's way is much smarter and much more profitable. (So many times I hear editors asking me "who's a good metal guy" or "who's a good rap guy"). As a writer it's def good business and def the way of the future. But as a music fan, it's extremely limiting.

Phil, you're really missing out on the Kanye record

Phil, you're really missing out on the every Kanye record

What about cultures that follow other calendars?

None of Kanye's singles (I have MTV at my house, guys, and YouTube on my computer) have ever converted me.

curious how much time you spend watching MTV if you deliberately don't give a fuck about most "big" albums

busted.

Albums are way more of a time and energy investment than occasional videos or singles, though. If you don't connect with the selected samples you're hearing or seeing, it's usually (not always) an indication that you won't connect with the album, either.

really boring thread so far guys

lets try to make these controversies really mean something

new board description ^^

December releases always have the odds set against them as far as year-end lists are concerned

this allegedly comes out today, coincidentally

http://musicistheheartofoursoul.toxicstrut.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/HinderAllAmericanNightmare.jpg

i'd love to vote in P&J but i dont write anyplace except for ILX, and typically just send my year-end list around to irl friends and facebook ppl and so forth. but i do have my top ten albums about 90% worked up!

Good thing I didn't submit my ballot yet!

I've had the Hinder album for over a month; it sucks. I didn't like Hinder before, but this one's their worst yet. They're going in a Nickelback/country direction instead of an old-Buckcherry/strip-club-rock direction. Bleah.

sounds like lousy directions regardless

lol @ lending one's ears to the hinder album, but refusing to play kanye even once

The Hinder album falls under job requirements; they opened the last Mötley Crüe tour, ergo they're not metal but at least metal-adjacent. Would I have sought it out? Hell no. But their publicist sent it to me for possible use on MSN.

i want to vote for p&j :( but I write for a crappy gossip website right now so.... :|

ilxor, plz to take into account what unperson -- and xhuxk, for that matter -- said about 'if you don't like the singles then the album probably won't do much for you.' Or have you never made judgments that way yourself?

The reason this debate really interests me is because I find myself torn right down the middle. I mean, I'm on board with Phil when it comes to the need for specialization. As music grows more and more fractured and increasingly specialized micro-genres pop up, it is impossible to keep up with everything. So why bother even pretending that you can? As broad-reaching and well-intentioned as one may be, there will still be, quite literally, hundreds of things you miss out on. On that level, it makes sense to say, "I love jazz and know the shit out of it, so I'm going to stay in this cubbyhole". But this never works for me personally. I can say, "oh yeah, this year I really want to focus more on metal", but three weeks later I will hear a Jazmine Sullivan single I like and decide I need to spend some time with that and I end up chasing down different strains in spite of myself.

i want to vote for p&j :( but I write for a crappy gossip website right now so.... :|

― no hipster hats (The Brainwasher), Tuesday, December 7, 2010 10:05 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

just email harvilla

is it a crappy gossip site that does album reviews? imo brainwasher's musical knowledge being wasted on gossip and only gossip would be a shame.

It should be obvious, but should also be noted for the record that I don't totally limit myself to listening to what I get paid to listen to. No one's paying me to be obsessed with Ayumi Hamasaki or Perfume, for example.

On that level, it makes sense to say, "I love jazz and know the shit out of it, so I'm going to stay in this cubbyhole". But this never works for me personally. I can say, "oh yeah, this year I really want to focus more on metal", but three weeks later I will hear a Jazmine Sullivan single I like and decide I need to spend some time with that and I end up chasing down different strains in spite of myself.

Most of us are guilty of this!

i would rather brainwasher submit a ballot than 90% of "proper" "rock" "critics". email harvilla, brainwasher!

Yeah, go for it brainwasher -- no reason why not.

i kind of agree with both whiney and unperson - really the answer is to do whatever you're best at, some people are good at being dilettante generalists and others good at specialism - as long as you're aware of the pitfalls of each. and i think awareness of artists above a certain stature is a good thing, but it sounds like unperson already does things like check kanye singles out on youtube.

what's really nagl is to start throwing around accusations of people not doing their jobs just cuz they choose a different approach to you, though.

xp well there's a music section but there's no reviews

but yeah I'll definitely email him now thanks guys

this made me laugh:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/pop-culture-expert-surprisingly-not-ashamed-of-sel,18481/

ilxor, plz to take into account what unperson -- and xhuxk, for that matter -- said about 'if you don't like the singles then the album probably won't do much for you.' Or have you never made judgments that way yourself?

yeah of course i do this all the time, it's a pretty reliable way to decide how to allocate one's mu$ic purcha$ing dollar$ and/or listening hours. and i did overlook that hinder could've been a job requirement.

But I want to live with albums before I vote for them, so they can really sink in; forcefeeding at the last minute (in my case, anyway) just isn't reliable from a taste standpoint.

For albums, I'd agree with that; with singles, which is all I vote for, not really. There were at least three or four years where I went with what amounts to the forcefeeding route. (Less so, this year.) If you work at a job that isn't even remotely connected with music or writing about music, the reality of the situation (for me, anyway) is that you just can't keep up with new music like you once did--there are only so many hours in the day. So starting in late November, I'd make myself (or get a friend to make for me) a bunch of mix-CDs of stuff I thought I might conceivably like. And sure enough, I would always end up finding a number of songs to supplement the handful that I already knew would be going on my list. When I look back on those late additions now, they're just fine; I'm pretty good at knowing fairly quickly whether or not I'm going to like something. (Not necessarily, I realize, a good thing; someone else my say my tastes calcified many years ago.)

So if life circumstances make it difficult to keep up, but you still take an interest in participating in these polls, and still think you can come up with something worth saying, the forcefeeding route is not the crime against nature you might think it is. Is my ballot exactly what it would be if I'd heard everything that an ambitious full-time writer would have heard during the course of the year? No--but so what? It's 10 songs I like, and it's just a year-end poll.

I should clarify that it's not just my job that holds me back from keeping up; a large percentage of the music I listen to in the car is older stuff, either by a year or two or much older. To keep up, I'd have to curtail a lot of that listening, and that's something I don't want to do.

i credit singles jukebox with exposing me to more new music than any other avenue. having assigned listening works!

just out of curiosity: do any of you make an attempt to keep up with the top 40 album list (weekly/monthly/annually/whatever)?

Yeah, there are times when I would love for someone to assign me songs (or albums) to write about. Best way I've discovered to force yourself outside of your comfort zone.

i've been going thru the Singles Jukebox 2010 front to back since a couple months ago -- found a bunch of great stuff I'd likely not have heard otherwise!

I mean this in the leasy zingy way possible, but Singles Jukebox is kind of hilarious in that it allows many rock critics and music geeks to finally be exposed the most popular songs in the country

^^^^ Your statement would be more true if TSJ were comprised solely of ILM guys. A good chunk of us remain avid radio listeners.

Yeah, but isn't the jury divided pretty well between the States and the UK? I think that gives some of them legitimate reasons for not encountering a relatively big hit from somewhere else. I know a lot of the British hits they feature are new to me.

i think maybe whiney mean the readership? no one who writes for the site is really a 'rock critic' at all

is the singles jukebox returning anytime soon?

I prefer "retired rock critics."

well, voted. i wish they still sent confirmation emails.

no one who writes for the site is really a 'rock critic' at all

Um...

I mean this in the leasy zingy way possible, but Singles Jukebox is kind of hilarious in that it allows many rock critics and music geeks to finally be exposed the most popular songs in the country

lolz aside, i actually find it useful to keep up w/ stuff that's popular in the UK and so forth, not the US

wow, i've really missed these online throwdowns

Um...

― xhuxk, Tuesday, December 7, 2010 3:21 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark

sorry!

fwiw i was pretty u_u when Jukebox recently did the 'amnesty week' thing for writers to suggest singles we hadn't covered and i was one of like 2 or 3 people that picked something charting or with any significant US mainstream profile

and i'm not just grumbling "indie fuxors" there, it's a diverse set of songs, but it's kinda like hey guys you know there are some actual big hit songs we haven't gotten to yet

i meant to nom jeremih but i totally missed the deadline

i'm hoping jordan means "rock" to be the operative word in that "no one is a real rock critic" thing!

Yeah, but isn't the jury divided pretty well between the States and the UK? I think that gives some of them legitimate reasons for not encountering a relatively big hit from somewhere else. I know a lot of the British hits they feature are new to me.

this is true, but at the same time i do feel sometimes - and i mean this w/all due love - that some jukebox writers do seem to think that "uhh duhhh i don't know who this is or anything about it and i'm not going to bother to find out" is an adequate basis to review things, and they play that up sometimes.

JORDAN WRITE MORE JUKEBOX STUFF GODDAMNIT! uh if it ever starts again :/

yeah i'm gonna do the amnesty stuff

Oh yeah, lex, I'm totally with you on that. I don't really enjoy the reviews where the writer seems to blow off any context that may be interesting.

i obviously get not being interested in the context - not even rock critics can be expected to be interested in everything - but what i do in those cases is not review the track in question

my scoring average is so low when i stick to genres i like and artists i know that i'm just afraid 'branching out' would make me seem like a total music-hating psycho

i submitted an app to write for the jukebox -- never heard back ;_;

"it's kinda like hey guys you know there are some actual big hit songs we haven't gotten to yet"
there's too many! site's been on hibernation/quarter pace for roughly a month and i had over two dozen amnesty options so i just picked the one i wanted to see get a little bit of exposure since dude is pretty much invisible except for his facebook right now

though it hurt me not to nominate Mindless Behavior "My Girl.
Or Yelawolf.
Or "Bed Intruder"! You have no idea how painful it was to not nom bed intruder.
/postsverymuchincharacter.com

ilxor, email Swygart again, I'm sure you could get on. Honestly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to.

Also, xhuxk is 3|)|)Y, right?

right-o!

xhuxk "1337" 3|)|)Y

can someone that knows my email hit me with the url for the jukebox portal? thanks

sent to your twitter as message

thx

last call tonight.

Where's my ballot? I want to give Kanye West loads and loads of points!

i forgot to vote for fantasia's "man of the house" on my trax ballot FUCKING AARGH

it was so hard narrowing it down, can we petition to make at least the trax ballot a 20 next time

any reason not to post ballots/alternates here? I just finished kneejerk boiling down mine.

if i could bloody remember it! i thought i'd be able to go back in to edit it (luckily the fantasia is the only regret, and i only realised that 4 hours after submitting anyway)

stuff i was sad to cut

albums

taylor swift - speak now
hot chip - one life stand
jazmine sullivan - love me back
girls - broken dreams club ep

songs

roll deep - good times (ill blu remix)
tinie tempah - pass out
lil boosie - top to the bottom
trey songz ft nicki minaj - bottoms up

stuff i was sad to cut:

albums -

erykah badu - new amerykah part two (return of the ankh)
dj nate - da trak genious
the jacka & laroo - neva be the same
we love - we love
fantasia - back to me

trax -

katy b - katy on a mission
fantasia - man of the house
tinie tempah - pass out
jamie woon - night air
willow smith - whip my hair
gyptian ft. nicki minaj - hold yuh
princess nyah - pon de floor
brenmar - taking it down
white ring - ixc999
storm queen - look right through
teairra mari ft. mavado - coins
princesa - más fuego

albums
*Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Return of Chico Dusty
*Guido - Anidea
*Yelawolf - Trunk Muzik / 0-60
*The-Dream - Love King
*Owen Pallett - Heartland
*The Carolina Chocolate Drops - Genuine Negro Jig
*Sharon Jones - I Learned the Hard Way
*Cherryholmes - IV: Common Threads
*Shangaan Electro - New Wave Dance Music from South Africa
*Taylor Swift - Speak Now

stuff that came close
Alphabeat - The Beat Is...
Die Antwoord - $0$
Ellie Goulding - Lights
Erykah Badu - New Amerykah Part Two
Luca Brazi - Brainfood
The Nels Cline Singers - Initiate
Ratatat - LP4
Tonetta777 - 777
Reggie Watts - Why Shit So Crazy?
Lindstrom and Christabelle - Real Life Is No Cool
Ethan Lipton - Honker
Devin tha Dude - Suite #420
Josh Turner - Haywire
Laura Marling - I Speak Because I Can
Robyn - Body Talk 1/2/3
Rusko - OMG!
Sade - Soldier of Love
Curren$y - Pilot Talk I and II
Sleigh Bells - Treats
Yeasayer - Odd Blood
Ke$ha - Animal

wish i'd heard/heard more: the ark, cibelle, merle haggard, das racist, keri hilson, jeremih, e-40, underworld, massive attack, k. michelle, jazmine sullivan, big KRIT, sun city girl, sufjan, tallest man on earth, pantha du prince, tracy thorn, kanye, jamey johnson, coati mundi, r kelly, caribou, cee lo, ciara, four tet, bird and the bee, the knife

Singles -
- Tensnake - Coma Cat
- DJ Fresh and Ce'Cile - Gold Dust
- Trey Songz and Nicki Minaj - Bottoms Up
- Big Boi - Shutterbug
- Ne Yo - One In a Million
- Janelle Monae - Tightrope
- Willow Smith - Whip My Hair
- YG - Toot it and Boot it
- Staygold - Backseat
- Bed Intruder - The Gregory Brothers and Antoine Dodson

a few alternate singles
Die Antwoord - Enter the Ninja
Die Antwoord - I Don't Need You
Jeremih - Waiter (The 5 Senses)
Jerrod Niemann - Lover Lover
Sia - Clap Your Hands
Usher and Nicki Minaj - Lil Freak
Lil B - The Age of Information
Gold Panda - Quitters Raga
Sia - You've Changed
Ciara - Ride
Ciara - Gimme Dat
Rihanna - What's My Name
Rihanna - Rude Boy
Hot Chip - One Life Stand
Taylor Swift - You Belong With Me (Tom Vinoya's Hotel Lobby Remix)
My Chemical Romance - Na Na Na etc

iirc my actual ballot went

albums -

ciara - basic instinct
jazmine sullivan - love me back
the-dream - love king
sade - soldier of love
k. michelle - what's the 901?
taylor swift - speak now
diddy - dirty money - last train to paris
ikonika - contact, love, want, have
laura marling - i speak because i can
glasser - ring

trax

girl unit - wut
kingdom ft shyvonne - mind reader
waka flocka flame - hard in da paint
lady gaga ft. beyoncé - telephone
sunny sweeney - from a table away
kourtney heart ft. magnolia shorty - my boy
horror inc - aurore
creep ft. romy madley croft - days
rich boy ft. yelawolf - go crazy
nicki minaj ft. sean garrett - massive attack

oh yeah i didn't fucking expect, while going through my p&j contenders, to discover that one of them had fucking DIED from getting SHOT 26 TIMES three days ago. rip magnolia shorty ;_;

i actually put up Trunk Muzik / Trunk Muzik 0-60 as one album, let's see what that gets me.

I reviewed more singles than ever yet was excited but few of them.

I sent my ballot on Tuesday, and comments an hour ago.Hooray!

i sent a comment on willow smith, trying to get myself to write one on waka, but we'll see

i couldn't be arsed w/comments. the surprise maths w/having to allocate 100 points exhausted me mentally.

yeah i really pity the intern that has to check everyone's math -- my first go at points came up w/ 110 before i fixed it

mine came up at 189 :/

hahaha

Just give everything a ten.

why the fuck didn't i vote for willow smith

and FANTASIA

AAAARGHHHHHH who on earth decided a ballot of ten tracks was an acceptable thing

i feel very strongly that any critic who struggles to fill their ballots should NOT BE A CRITIC

i'd like to do some comments but i need a few days off from work to do it. wonder if i can sneak in with some stuff prior to jan 1?

and yeah, all albums got a ten. I don't understand weighting otherwise; it's impossible enough for me to pick my ten favorite albums, much less rank THEM.

and fuck, i haven't even heard the new prince yet! I feel like i been slacking on music this year.

I always post my list and comments on my page, so I'll link to them here. There's been a year-end in one of the Toronto weeklies that I've been voting in since 1991, but they packed it in this year; some weird idea that that were too many lists and polls in the world, and that theirs just got lost in the shuffle. I'm always a little more surprised each year when Pazz & Jop keeps going, but I'm glad it does.

yeah I didn't have time to do comments :-\ my ballot was

ALBUMS
Big Krit - Krit Wuz Here
Janelle Monae - The Archandroid
Jazmine Sullivan - Love Me Back
Waka Flocka Flame - Flockaveli
Fantasia - Back to Me
Roc Marciano - Marcberg
Gucci Mane - Mr. Zone 6
Araabmuzik - Instrumental Kings 5
Glasser - Ring
Diddy-Dirty Money - Last Train to Paris

TRACKS
Ciara "Ride"
Storm Queen "Look Right Through"
Lil B "Like A Martian"
Miguel "All I Want Is You"
Adele "Rolling in the Deep"
Young Jeezy "Lose My Mind"
Kim Ann Foxman "Creature"
Aloe Blacc "I Need A Dollar"
Travis Porter "Make It Rain"
Kelis "4th of July (Fireworks)"

but like as soon as I pressed enter I wanted to change my whole list lol

albums that almost made it/i wish i would've spent more time with before making list: ciara, r. kelly, flying lotus, monica, actress, jose james, vado, lindstrom & christabele, jeremih, J*davey, quadron, caribou, kelis, bilal, nina sky.. a few others

tracks: too many to mention... i kind of just picked 10 random tracks lol

and I did weigh my votes, giving jazmine & fantasia more than anyone just because I figured a bunch of people would vote for The Archandroid and jaz/tasia could use the points more

my ilx poll ballot is going to look totally different lol

Yeah, i would've included "all i want is you" if i'd have thought of it.
really also do need to listen to J*davey and bilal albums

it's impossible enough for me to pick my ten favorite albums, much less rank THEM.

That's where the strategic voting comes in for me -- trying to give extra boost to things that I think might need them (this year, T.Swift, M.I.A., N.Nastasia).

Anyway I dithered and barely got mine in, and immediately started kicking myself for leaving off U.S. Girls. Oh well.

My ballot:

Albums:
1. Janelle Monae – The ArchAndroid
2. Deerhunter – Halycon Digest
3. Agalloch – Marrow of the Spirit
4. Nachtmystium – Addicts: Black Meddle Pt. II
5. Warpaint – The Fool
6. Rangda – False Flag
7. The Drums – The Drums
8. Bottomless Pit – Blood Under the Bridge
9. Flying Lotus – Cosmogramma
10. Kylesa – Spiral Shadow

Singles:
1. "Fuck You" - Cee-Lo Green
2. "Not In Love" - Crystal Castles f. Robert Smith
3. "Monster" - Kanye West f. Jay-Z, Rick Ross, Nicki Minaj, & Bon Iver
4. "Dancing On My Own" - Robyn
5. "Tightrope" - Janelle Monae f. Big Boi
6. "Stylo" - Gorillaz f. Bobby Womack & Mos Def
7. "Power" - Kanye West
8. "Desire Lines" - Deerhunter
9. "Me and the Moon" - The Drums
10. "Swim" - Surfer Blood

1. Harvey Milk – A Small Turn Of Human Kindness
2. Big Boi – Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty
3. Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
4. Linkin Park – A Thousand Suns
5. Yelawolf - Trunk Music: 0-60
6. E-40 – Revenue Retrievin’: Day Shift
7. Waka Flocka Flame – Flockaveli
8. The Chemical Brothers – Further
9. Sightings – City Of Straw
10. Rick Ross - Teflon Don

1. Cee Lo Green - "Fuck You"
2. Kanye West - "Runaway"
3. E-40 ft. Clyde Carson & Husulah - "Lightweight Jammin'"
4. La Roux - "Bulletproof"
5. Waka Flocka Flame - "Hard In Da Paint"
6. Aloe Blacc - "Femme Fatale"
7. Gucci Mane ft. Swizz Beatz - "Gucci Time"
8. Goldfrapp - "Alive"
9. Deftones - "Rocket Skates"
10. David Guetta & Chris Willis ft. Fergie and LMFAO- "Getting Over You"

Its hard to fit everything into my top 10. Only two African artists for me this year (in part because I did not hear enough, and some albums that I did hear did not wow me--sorry AfroCubism). I feel bad that I didn't squeeze Gil Scott-Heron in somewhere--was gonna put "New York is Killing Me" in my singles/track list but it didn't make it at the last moment, nor did some Southern chitlin circuit soul tracks, and some rock ones as well.

what j*davey is this you guys are talking about, the ep from january?

is that the one with "end of the world (mama's back)" on it? i liked that song a lot

immediately started kicking myself for leaving off U.S. Girls.

love this disc, despite it being a little . . . same-y? best moment is when she lifts the fog/fuzz for red ford radio.

yeah "red ford radio" totally should have made my singles list. It was on my shortlist i don't know how i left it off. the perils of last-minute voting. gonna vote for it in ilm for sure.

4. La Roux - "Bulletproof"

Torn about whether to include this on my best-of-2010 mix. I guess it did peak on U.S. charts this year.

it was a single in 2010, what else do you need?

for it not to suck i imagine

it was a single in 2010, what else do you need?

Was it? Wiki sez released in June 2009 in the UK and July 2009 in the US.

Well it broke in 2010. You're starting to sound like jaymc

Oh.

well... it certainly peaked in the US this summer and it was re-released as a single on may 11 2010

lol rtc

Albums, 10 each: Big Boi, Bloody Mary, the Bug EP, Deadbeat, Mark E, F, Flying Lotus, Friendly Fires, Lone, Sleigh Bells.

friendly fires?

Torn about whether to include this on my best-of-2010 mix

kmt

Mix is 80+ songs, for the record. It's not in my top 10 or even 20.

A+ to jon via chi and whiney's ballots, both

need to check out asap: agalloch, warpaint, harvey milk, e-40, waka

you really don't have to check out warpaint, fwiw

it's that poor, huh ;_;

Don't just take whiney's word for it. Its really good.

i like "undertow" enough to be curious; will check it out

e-40 and waka first, obv

kmt

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Monday, December 27, 2010 3:30 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

rmde @ you suddenly saying this constantly for the last few weeks

I had to look it up.

always amazed at intersections and diversions; whiney, you've got a few singles I utterly HATED on your best of and a few albums i loved

rmde @ you suddenly saying this constantly for the last few weeks

i've been saying it for years. contrary to what US posters insist on believing, it is a v.common thing in the UK. if you've noticed it more in recent weeks, that's purely to do with EOY lists and the idea that anyone, anywhere, enjoys the music of that harpy and generally terrible person elly jackson.

i don't think warpaint are really good but the album is def worth checking out, it's pretty nice

"pretty nice" is basically a glowing recommendation coming from lex, considering he calls someone he doesn't like a "harpy" and "terrible person"

i've been saying it for years.

it's been cringeworthy for years.

also you are the only british person i've seen use it

rmde @ you suddenly saying this constantly for the last few weeks

i've been saying it for years. contrary to what US posters insist on believing, it is a v.common thing in the UK. if you've noticed it more in recent weeks, that's purely to do with EOY lists and the idea that anyone, anywhere, enjoys the music of that harpy and generally terrible person elly jackson.

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Monday, December 27, 2010 2:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that may be, but on ilx it looks like you used it about 4 times in late '09/early '10, and then in the last month used it about 6 times, on multiple occasions going out of your way to explain it...it's just a teensy bit obnoxious is all.

i have never heard this expression b4

suzy appears to be the other person on ilx who likes to say it, i guess she's british too right? (xpost)

SAMPSON
Nay, as they dare. I will kiss my teeth at them;
which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it.

Enter ABRAHAM and BALTHASAR

ABRAHAM
Do you kiss your teeth at us, sir?

SAMPSON
I do kiss my teeth, sir.

ABRAHAM
Do you kiss your teeth at us, sir?

SAMPSON
[Aside to GREGORY] Is the law of our side, if I say
ay?

GREGORY
No.

SAMPSON
No, sir, I do not kiss my teeth at you, sir, but I
kiss my teeth, sir.

how is "kmt" obnoxious and "rmde" isn't - at least people outside of ilx use the former

people on ilx generally use rmde as kind of a joke/reference, and i was certainly using it ironically in this thread

seriously. VERY common expression: http://twitter.com/#search?q=kmt

lol @ how many of those are about eastenders btw

my point isn't that it's inherently obnoxious, or that it's not common in some circles, but that your recent usage of it has been a bit over the top

i guess its some sort of lameo eastenders type slang? carry on

Can we get back to talking about music?

my point isn't that it's inherently obnoxious, or that it's not common in some circles, but that your recent usage of it has been a bit over the top

which differs how from all the shit memes that everyone else on ilx partakes in, from "amirite" to "rmde"? all of which have been making me cringe for years

amirite isn't an ilx thing tbrr

imo

well congratulations, you are finally getting ur own back. p sure up until this point everyone loved all ur posts

how i will miss the amiable and non abrasive lex of old

lol!

whadimiss?

same shit different day iirc

loool

Interns don't have to check the points anymore. We have computers now.

Also, the tiny number of math errors are trivial compared to the massive piles of word/letter/field-order errors.

Personally, I vote all-metal these days, even though I still also make a non-metal list for my own site, because my metal list is an order of magnitude better informed than my non-metal list. Sure, I've heard Kanye and Taylor Swift, too, and so of course I have my own opinions about those, but what I haven't done, and don't have time to, is listen to 100 other things like Kanye, and 100 other things like Taylor, so I would have some basis for saying whether those albums are actually standouts or watered down popularizations of their forms or whatever. Whereas in metal my opinions are no less subjective, but at least they're a lot less arbitrary. I *have* heard 100 other things like Agrypnie or Agalloch.

Results are up:

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/

Many familiar names in the comments as per usual...

haha yeah

Results utterly unsurprising too.

don't have time to read essays yet but the upper echelons of both lists make me wonder how many critics confused "popular" music with "good" music.

on the plus side, "wut" came 33rd in the singles poll O_O

yawn at the results

Get in here, goons

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/RmxvY2thdmVsaQ==/

and in here http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/TGFzdCBUcmFpbiB0byBQYXJpcw==/

LMFAO

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2010/TGVtbWUgU21hbmcgSXQ=/

lol

54. Antoine Dodson & the Gregory Brothers, "Bed Intruder Song"

i was the sole voter for half my singles and three of my albums

"lemme smang it" was on my longlist. p&j really really should think about having ballots of 20

M.I.A: ouch.

and in here http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/TGFzdCBUcmFpbiB0byBQYXJpcw==/

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:56 PM (

ha -- if it helps, one of my published comments nodded towards it.

lol i think literally every single p&j voter is a current or past ilm poster

of dirty money i mean

Assuming Brad Nelson is the same one who posts here, the only one I'm not sure about is Tyrone Palmer.

Real Life Is No Cool got 11 votes? WTFFFFF.

Revenue Retrievin' gets three Goon votes (whiney, deej, and myself). And a vote from Noz. And maybe the others are Goons too, but I don't recognize the names.

Real Life Is No Cool got 11 votes? WTFFFFF.

Five of whom are former Stylus and current Pitchfork guys (it made my final twenty).

lol -- earl tied yelawolf

Real Life Is No Cool got 11 votes? WTFFFFF.

Five of whom are former Stylus and current Pitchfork guys (it made my final twenty).

― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:27 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

And two Jukeboxers, including myself, if I'm not mistaken.

so who wrote the good essays? who wrote the bad ones?

did the Diddy album deserve better?

Juzwiak's essay is terrific.

so who wrote the good essays? who wrote the bad ones?

― hard as a markers (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its been up for 20 minutes. why don't you give it some time instead of treating everything like a kanye leak, you fuckin spaz

lol the fuck's your problem? i was just asking what ppl thought of the essays. i'm sure some ppl have read a few of them. jesus.

lolz and all, i know, that but that's a lil harsh, whiney

i'll let you know when zach baron's essay leaks in 320 kbps tho

sorry if it was harsh. it was for the lols.

yeaa i figured... it's just not very lolsy.

These are the strangest Pazz and Jop results ever. Broooooce down at #25?? Taylor Swift #26??? M.I.A. #35?? I thought critics ate that shit up! What happened??

lol @ the diddy massive

Assuming Brad Nelson is the same one who posts here, the only one I'm not sure about is Tyrone Palmer.

― Pink Friday XIII (jaymc), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:20 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dunno if he wants to out himself but this is an ilxor

p obvious tbh

who's david moore, if he doesn't mind me asking?

tyrone palmer did a couple of jukebox reviews once but didn't seem to stick around

These are the strangest Pazz and Jop results ever. Broooooce down at #25?? Taylor Swift #26??? M.I.A. #35?? I thought critics ate that shit up! What happened??

The stranglehold on the top 10 has been successfully passed from Rolling Stone/Spin-era dinosaurs to Pitchfork/Stereogum-era small furry animals. With no discernible improvement in overall quality.

i've no idea who t.palmer is on ilx

david moore is @cureforbedbugs (same on tumblr), hasn't posted on ilx in a while but used to be dabug

;_;
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/SmV3ZWxyeSBTZWxlY3Rpb24=/

Ever since I stopped voting in this, I can't help looking at the list and trying to determine how I would've shaken things up. At the very least, I would've gotten Owen Pallett into the top 100, Steve Reich into the top 1000, and The-Dream ahead of Das Racist. Also would've been the only person to vote for William Brittelle (maybe Jaga Jazzist, too).

maybe this will get cassie to follow me on tumblr http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2010/U2t5ZGl2ZXI=/

dunno if he wants to out himself but this is an ilxor

― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:47 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

p obvious tbh

― zvookster, Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Ha, I was actually going to say, "Maybe it's zvookster." But it seemed like an arbitrary joke, so I didn't.

lol no not me

geez even i can figure this out

ugh @ dream losing to das racist

not that i helped it lol

jaymc i'll sell his identity to you

jaymc's xls has seen better days

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/TG92ZSBLaW5n/

oh duhhhh it's totally obvious who tyrone palmer is

God these essays are so fucking smug. Apologies if any of the writers are ilxors, but please mellow out.

I've figured it out. (He posted the ballot upthread.)

i fully expect r. juzwiak's essay to be excellent. looking at the subjects and the writers, i have no intention of reading any of the others apart from the bieber one (maybe clover hope's, too). the others will 100% guaranteed make me want to kill.

ilx is totally calling tyrone right now

jaymc's xls has seen better days

I don't read a lot of the threads the dude posts on, so I don't really have a bead on his taste.

really surprised at the lack of votes for The Fives single

http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-01-19/music/rick-ross-lies-the-rolling-stones-plunder-and-taylor-swift-triumphs/3/

haha alfred's last comment here. man, you & nate patrin are in the running for having diametrically opposite philosophies w/r/t music vs. myself

if a the national song no one has heard places top 10 in pazz and jop, does it make a sound?

ariel pink fans dont really get 70s studio rock, dude?

(xp)

I don't really care much for that National album, but it's a pretty good song.

haha alfred's last comment here. man, you & nate patrin are in the running for having diametrically opposite philosophies w/r/t music vs. myself

music makes the bourgeoisie and the rebels

I don't really care much for that National album, but it's a pretty good song.

"Afraid of Everyone" and "England" were my jams.

it's just kind of weird that it placed below both katy perry singles. not that this should be the metric by which things are judged, but like at most one millionth of the people who heard teenage dream/california gurls have heard bloodbuzz ohio no exaggeration

The National album is good, even very good, but it's not the aesthetic that I like best on them. None of its songs are among my fave National songs.

theres a lot of stuff im surprised didnt get votes ... jamie woon's night air only got three for ex ... ive never felt further from what ppl were voting for

<3 you all that voted for this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/TmV2ZXIgTWluZCB0aGUgQnVsbGV0cyBIZXJlJ3MgRWFybHkgQm9iIFNlZ2Vy/

Katy Perry fans spent the money to the money to the money that they spent

i was the only vote for ikonika's album, that surprised me

i was gonna say i hadn't heard that national song but apparently i reviewed it at the jukebox! 4/10. not a good song.

i'm shocked that people can tell National songs apart enough to vote for one

^"Bloodbuzz Ohio" is the one that sounds like all the other ones but better.

kind of annoyed that big boi prevented a clean sweep of dislike for BOTH top 10 tracks and albums

how much worse can the others be? :/

Listening to "Bloodbuzz, Ohio" again. Seriously, like the worst song on the Grinderman album is better than this wussy-poo beardlice mcsweeney subscription old man clam-chowder-fart of a song

xp How I feel about the worst of them is how I imagine you feel about 90% of guitar-based indie rock with male vocals.

New York or New England? The latter is creamier. xp

Not that this will recommend it to anyone not otherwise disposed to it, but the rhythm of "Bloodbuzz Ohio" reminds me a bit of Final Fantasy's "This Is the Dream of Win and Regine."

What I don't like about High Violet is that it basically forgoes verses for a focus solely on hooks, which is fine, just not the best look for The National.

Like, people who actively enjoy the National know that like punk rock and hip-hop and heavy metal and stuff happened like 30 years ago to make sure that we can all listen to other shit besides Dan Fogelberg, right?

I think Kanye was such a critical smash because he’s the only person more insecure than a rock critic.

Christopher R. Weingarten
New York, NY

haha. comments v much in character

i wish other critics wouldn't propagate that horrible, self-loathing image of critics as being insecure and awkward ;_;

Like, people who actively enjoy the National know that like punk rock and hip-hop and heavy metal and stuff happened like 30 years ago to make sure that we can all listen to other shit besides Dan Fogelberg, right?

thank god for these brave, lost soldiers. . .

also fuck you, the nat'l.

(i kind-of agree with WGW on this, tho . . .)

i wish other critics wouldn't propagate that horrible, self-loathing image of critics as being insecure and awkward ;_;

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:19 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark

whiney thinks we're all lonely, hermetic, anti-sexual and anti-sport.

Still waiting for Ariel Pink to sound like Boz Scaggs.

I'm not sure I can even name a Dan Fogelberg song, but Whiney's comment makes me want to mount a long impassioned defense of Dan Fogelberg.

whiney thinks we're all lonely, hermetic, anti-sexual and anti-sport.

fucking indiecentrism again

xp And I don't even like the National that much!

Just hate the idea that music needs to be aggressively dynamic to have value.

yes

Still waiting for Ariel Pink to sound like Boz Scaggs.

― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:21 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and because it doesnt, indie ppl 'dont get it'?

i wish other critics wouldn't propagate that horrible, self-loathing image of critics as being insecure and awkward ;_;

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:19 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark

sorry if my joke inadvertently insulted the sexy, worldly baller playboys spending their tuesday nights pondering about where Girl Unit placed on a critic's poll

ya jeez whiney I have semi-regular sex with a real girlfriend. #y'alldon'tknowme

women be shoppin

lol self-loathing

sorry if my joke inadvertently insulted the sexy, worldly baller playboys spending their tuesday nights pondering about where Girl Unit placed on a critic's poll

spending my tuesday night deadline-surfing ;_; but also still recovering from my sexyworldlyballerplayboy weekend

and because it doesnt, indie ppl 'dont get it'?

Cheap copies of Middle Man and Silk Degrees available at Amazon.

spending my tuesday night deadline swag-surfing

1146 The Fives (ft. Vanya Taylor), "It's What You Do (The Hottest by Far)" Mentions: 1

F*ck y'all (except deej).

and where was YOUR ballot tim

Frank Kogan voted for Daddy Yankee's Mundial. Now that is something I'd actually be curious to read his comments about. (Steve voting for it is less of a surprise to me.) Those were the only two people to vote for my third favorite album of the year (and my favorite DY album, of those I've heard).

I wasn't invited this year.

Presumably because I would have smacked some sense into proceedings.

almost certainly an oversight? i emailed rob h myself when i wanted to be invited last year.

NO ONE VOTED FOR "WATAGATAPITUSBERRY" SO FUCK THIS POLL.

I'M OUT.

did the #2 single "Tightrope" chart anywhere? afaict it didn't crack any Billboard chart but maybe there were some other countries it charted in -- if not, it's easily the highest P&J single ever to have not charted.

Wait, did Frank Kogan actually vote for Marina & the Diamonds? Is that for real? I thought he hated her. I'm suddenly ready to hug Frank Kogan, for those two votes.

Cheap copies of Middle Man and Silk Degrees available at Amazon.

― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i own silk degrees, its really not a perfect album by any means. i probably like as many songs on the ariel pink as i do on that, maybe more. i dunno, your argument seems to imply they're going for something i dont think they're actually going for

did the #2 single "Tightrope" chart anywhere? afaict it didn't crack any Billboard chart but maybe there were some other countries it charted in -- if not, it's easily the highest P&J single ever to have not charted.

― some dude, Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:33 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

did shutterbugg either?

i love "Watagatapitusberry" but i never really thought of it for my top 10, partly because i like the DJ Class song the beat came from better and partly because i feel like it might be poor form to vote for one of my Baltimore friends

"Shutterbugg" lightly scraped the charts

shutterbugg:

Chart (2010)↓ Peak position↓
UK Singles Chart[8] 31
UK R&B Singles 13
U.S. Billboard Bubbling Under Hot 100 Singles 20
U.S. Billboard Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs 60
German Black Charts [9] 8

like i said, strangest p&j results evah

did the #2 single "Tightrope" chart anywhere?

Not as far as I can tell.

It looks like Monae's only charting single is something called "Open Happiness" (with Cee Lo), which in 2009 hit #11 in Austria and #29 in New Zealand.

do we have a dedicated Watagatapitusberry thread because this my first exposure to it and

In the 1300-word comment I sent in, I wrote, "I fully expect to have heard no more than two of the top 10 Pazz & Jop albums, and a maximum of five of the top 20."

Actual tally: three from the top 10 (LCD Soundsystem, Janelle Monae, Black Keys), total of four from the top 20 (Jamey Johnson).

Official Watagatapitusberry Thread (¿¡EL QUE!?)

xpost have you gotten a good start on not listening to music in 2011?

Do you have any new favorite albums you haven't heard that we should not look out for?

Highest-placing thing I voted for: Rick Ross, #34.

I usually have at least three albums on my ballot that nobody else voted for, and this year those were Ayumi Hamasaki, Flesh Consumed and Kill the Client.

based on the name alone, i'm ready to list kill-the-client as my favorite record of 2010.

unperson: wrong ayumi album

Really surprised Roc Marciano did so well. I wasn't aware that album was that well-known.

wrong ayumi album

I turned in my ballot before Love Songs came out. But either way, Circus stomps all over it.

If anybody wants to read the whole rant I sent in (as opposed to the little bits they used, one of which appears verbatim upthread), here you go.

"bloodbuzz ohio" is okay but the idea of voting for a "single" by the national is slightly hilarious and very foreign to me

decidedly NOT goon-rock

it's just very weird to me, the idea of listening to a singular song by that band

and ppl that voted for that AND the album need better imaginations

I'm the opposite: I enjoy their moments more than their sequences. I voted for "Mistaken For Strangers" in 2007 when the album bored the hell out of me.

lol this comment where the dude is all "taio cruz's 'dynamite' is as popular as some random hannukah parody from youtube. how modern." is hilarious and wrong

That's ILX's own NoTimeBeforeTime.

ha! if i would've known that i would've addressed him directly

anyway i don't agree w/ that comment, notimebeforetime -- altho big ups for liking "dynamite," which made my ballot

its a youtube with 300,000 views. its a single guys. its the internet era this is how it works

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:49 AM (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

damn, my man soto went ham in the comments

blam blam

dynamite is the best song of the year

Naw, but it's up there.

this is dire, obv

it wasn't my #1 but i think i was being slightly facetious/strategic

simon's been lurking:

"For 2010 wasn't the Year of Chillwave so much as the Year of Chillwave Backlash, a flurry of jibes almost as formularized as detractors make out the music to be: obligatory reference to Hipstamatic + snigger at the name + invocation of nostalgia as a priori Bad Thing = entire region of music dismissed."

^^^A guy who doesn't know aaaanything about dismissing entire regions of music out of hand.

Uh, that's Simon, not Scott, to be clear.

someone give whiney a trophy

Data deconstruction is here:
https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop

If you gus like stats then Glenn did these also! https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=ILM-Metal-2010&query=Winners

Needle is awesome!

hahaha nice one Glenn! https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop&query=2010+Metalism

I am not too surprised to find that I'm one of three people whose whole singles ballot shares no other voters. I thought there was at least a tiny chance somebody else might vote for "The Prolonging", but no.

https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop&thread=%4043493&typeId=9149585060559937602&render=List

Amazing work on this as ever, Glenn McDonald, great fun sorting through it all.

lol @ kanye being #35 album when u discount ppl who didn't submit a singles ballet ("Hipness"). not sure what that means but it means something.

err ballot wtf

What Mark said. Thank you, glenn.

lol at ryan schreiber's being the fifth most centrist ballot

also funny how agalloch comes out at or near the top of almost all of the variant albums charts.

Said this last year:

The fact that Ryan Schrieber is the 5th-most centric voter says everything you need to know.

― i'd look psychotic in a baklava (The Reverend), Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:21 PM Bookmark

Although I don't think this year's results are as bad as 2009's.

i think its actually a pretty weird and interesting list of stuff. i would listen to stuff on that list. its very young. or seems young. which i like cuz sometimes pazzjop could be a real snooooooze. did all the old people die?

Wait, I was the only vote for Christian Mistress? Really?

Although I don't think this year's results are as bad as 2009's.

― The Reverend, Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:32 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eh they're pretty dire

Said Senior Senior (me) to Junior Senior (Skot); hooraw,we ain't all dead yet!

genuinely shocked whip my hair is so low placed

also, surprised no toot it/boot it support:
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2010/VG9vdCBJdCBhbmQgQm9vdCBJdA==/

i think its actually a pretty weird and interesting list of stuff. i would listen to stuff on that list. its very young. or seems young. which i like cuz sometimes pazzjop could be a real snooooooze. did all the old people die?

I'm guessing that the success of kanye/big boi/cee-lo/janelle is in big part because younger critics and older critics are much more likely to agree about which (semi)popular black music is good than in any other area.

NB. emphasis on use of word "critics" above.

its a youtube with 300,000 views. its a single guys. its the internet era this is how it works

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:49 AM (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― domo genesis p-orridge (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 8:15 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

how is this statement relevent to this thread
please explain

lol my centricity closest to jordan, al, noz and brainwasher

can't believe yours was the only vote for "lay it down"

why? it's not like any other non-crossover R&B hits did well, especially one that broke so late in the year.

im confused about the definition of 'crossover' any moer

yeah "can't believe" was the wrong phrase

"Lay It Down" was top 10 on the R&B chart, but didn't get on the Pop 100 or into the top 40 of the Hot 100. if you think that's crossover, then what isn't?

i should clarify that i mean my conception of what has or has not crossed over is confusing

fair enough.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2rc9yu1.jpg

i think it's funny that titus andronicus did so well in the "world with only kanye" tabulation

so who is making the world of ilmers tabulation?

Isn't that what the ILM year-end poll is for?

I know it's hardly a shock that Kanye won but I can't be the only one who's surprised that he DOUBLED the number of points of the #2 album, with ONE-THIRD of the total number of respondents voting for him?? That's insane!

lol this comment where the dude is all "taio cruz's 'dynamite' is as popular as some random hannukah parody from youtube. how modern." is hilarious and wrong

I never said it was "as popular", I said that the original + the covers were all lumped together in my mind when I thought about the song. And that wasn't a hindrance, I actually found myself liking the song even more. Anyway, it's a great song and all that.

I just realised that four out of my top 5 albums of 2010 don't feature at all in the P&J list - and the fifth one only got 4 mentions. I'm pretty sure I've never been this much out on a limb before. :/

huh http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2010/2266610/

You always use your ignorance of pop music as a pole to raise your flag upon. Like, I can't fault anyone for not caring about Adam Lambert, I'm faulting you because you constantly think it's grounds for bragging rights.

Fuck YeAaAAHH Chris!

Glad to see Brainwasher in there.

you guys all polled out or something? thought this thread would be all nutso and filled with indignation or whatever. that other poll thread must have taken the fight out of everybody.

Unperson may believe that this is now the era for genre specialist critics and not generalists, but per usual there aren't that many genre specialists voting for many genres(various forms of r'n'b old and new--XChuck and I may be the only Southern soul voters and we did not even agree on which Malaco or Ecko release was best; various Latin genres; only a few votes for Nigerian King Sunny Ade or Malian Khaira Arby; Unperson and others can discuss how many metal critics voted). As was discussed last year (and or the year before) some folks who write about such genres are just not interested in taking part in a poll dominated by pop and Pitchfork favorites (which is too bad).

xp I was wondering that too! But it's hard to be indignant when you know what's coming. Pazz & Jop is just a big anti-climax these days. Guess I was surprised by Kanye having three singles in the top 10 (all in a row, too!), but I probably shouldn't have been.

Me, I'm just happy that five people voted for Bob Seger and five people voted for Chely Wright.

only Southern soul voters

I should have directed Rob Harvilla to Daddy B. Nice's website! Maybe next year. He'd have the best ballot in the whole poll.

I also want to brag that, despite being one of the few voters ever to (sort of) write an entire book about the genre, my Glenn McDonald "metal" rating has now stood at a perfect zero for three years in a row. (Though actually, in both 2008 and 2009 I voted for one metal single, so seems like I should've got half a point then, at least.)

Also, Todd Kristel and I somehow voted for five of the same singles this year! Plus the Traband album, which nobody else named.

I know it's hardly a shock that Kanye won but I can't be the only one who's surprised that he DOUBLED the number of points of the #2 album, with ONE-THIRD of the total number of respondents voting for him?? That's insane!

P&J voter pool is large enough, and popular music fractured enough, to invoke rank-size distribution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank-size_distribution

after all this time and all this acclaim i'm STILL not curious enough to hear the kanye album. not flaunting ignorance, i've just never enjoyed his stuff and i can't imagine that this album is SO GREAT that i would like it. i think he just reminds me of p diddy and i can't stand him either.

new p diddy album is amazing too fwiw

new p diddy album is amazing too fwiw

The Diddy album is really good. I think if it had come out in October it would have placed at least 100 spots higher than it did.

otm

the release date for it was bizarre, but i'm still kind of shocked that it isn't a bigger deal. there was literally one copy at my record store when i bought it, less than two weeks after it came out.

The Diddy album is really good. I think if it had come out in October it would have placed at least 100 spots higher than it did.

I may cheat and stick it on next year's ballot.

i believe that they are good. they just both bug me so much...

It might make mine.

xpost

so its really just more of a personal problem...

are there other flashy rap moguls you prefer or just not your type of guy?

xp I might do that with Yelawolf. (Vote for it in 2011, I mean. Looks like it made 10 ballots this year.) Also belatedly liking El Debarge, R. Kelly, and Kandi, to varying degrees. Still need to check out the Diddy. And Daddy Yankee. And Christian Mistress. And lots of other things.

I did listen to the Kanye album. All the way through! Honest! It's....okay. I guess. Also gave two of those three top-ten singles 6's out of 10's on Singles Jukebox (skipped "Monster" at the time for some reason.) So they're definitely not horrible.

Most amusing tabulating error I've noticed so far (not criticizing -- I ran the poll for years, and a few are inevitable): One of the votes for M.I.A.'s "Born Free" appears to actually be Hobey Echlin's vote for "Born Free" by Kid Rock. So if you start at Echlin's singles ballot and click on "Born Free," it seems like the Kid Rock song got 20 votes.

The Diddy album is like Exhibit A on why people shouldn't fill out their ballots in October and then post WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO HEAR, REALLY?!

based on the Kanye showing i don't think many people actually did that

unless they put him on their ballot before hearing the whole album, which i can believe

i didn't know kandi had a new album!

nov/dec were bizarrely full of quality releases - i know the pop/r&b calendar is usually weighted towards the run-up to xmas, it just seemed particularly noticeable this year. diddy, ciara, jazmine, yelawolf, el debarge, r kelly, keri (and yeah kanye and rihanna too, though i didn't like either).

yeah, 3 of my top 4 albums were from Nov/Dec

Is this the second year in which indie albums released in the first half (if not the first couple of months) dominate? In 2009 and 2010: Animal Collective, Dirty Projectors, Vampire Weekend, Beach House, the National...

Half of the albums in the top 10 were released in May, and three of those on the same day:

Jan. 11
Vampire Weekend

Jan. 26
Beach House

May 11
The National
Sleigh Bells

May 18
LCD Soundsystem
Janelle Monae
Black Keys

July 5
Big Boi

Aug. 2
Arcade Fire

Nov. 22
Kanye West

lol this is probably the most "me" P&J I've ever seen

Chuck: OK, I tagged White Wizzard and Sister Sin, so your Metalism score isn't 0 anymore.

The "Born Free" thing is not a tabulating error: the counts are correct for both songs. But the Voice's pages that *list* the voters for each song aren't accounting for same-name songs by different artists, so both MIA's 20 and Kid Rock's 1 lead to a page with 21 voters listed. But this is correct in the Needle version:

MIA: https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop&thread=%401816&typeId=9149585060559937610&render=List
Kid Rock: https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop&thread=%401354&typeId=9149585060559937610&render=List

The M.I.A. essay's second paragraph is fucking hilarious

just noticed that i plummeted from 354th in 09 to 568th this year in terms of centricity

my "empathies" (nice word!) -

0.151 · 8 · Frank Kogan · 2010
0.131 · 7 · Chris Herrington · 2010
0.129 · 7 · Al Shipley · 2010
0.129 · 7 · Jordan Sargent · 2010
0.128 · 7 · Tyrone Palmer · 2010
0.108 · 6 · Tom Ewing · 2010
0.105 · 6 · Jonathan Bradley · 2010
0.091 · 4 · Ben Sisario · 2010
0.088 · 4 · John Milward · 2010
0.081 · 5 · Kasia Galazka · 2010
0.08 · 5 · Andy Kellman · 2010
0.08 · 5 · David Cooper Moore · 2010
0.078 · 5 · Alfred Soto · 2010
0.061 · 4 · Calum Marsh · 2010
0.06 · 4 · Richard Torres · 2010
0.059 · 4 · Jer Fairall · 2010
0.059 · 4 · Nick Neyland · 2010
0.059 · 4 · Amrit Singh · 2010
0.059 · 4 · Renato Pagnani · 2010
0.058 · 4 · Ross Raihala · 2010

My comments, for what they're worth.

"are there other flashy rap moguls you prefer or just not your type of guy?"

diddy and kanye are pretty much the ONLY rap artists/producers/etc that i kinda can't stand. they're jerks. i can't even listen to puffy-affiliated music cuz i'm always afraid that he might say something on a track and ruin it for me.

and they say there's no ilx hivemind...

they're jerks.

don't u listen to burzum?

not really.

you should.

maybe he finds varg's psychotic hatred fascinating but kanye's jerkiness off-putting

i listen to the eagles though.

ok, you're beyond all hope then.

there is SOOOOOOOO much rap music in the world that is better than the stuff those two dopes make. i've never felt the need to listen to kanye or puffy. but, yeah, when everyone raves about their new albums i DO get curious. i'm a curious guy. but never curious enough to actually listen.

mostly they just make me cringe when i see them on t.v. and i've had to see them on t.v. FOREVER. or it feels like it anyway.

...may as well give up on tryin ta stab that beast with yer Steely Dan knives and wot naught.

i love the eagles! and henley and frey are world renowned odious monsters. what can i say, there are exceptions.

Don Henley is the very devil we must all bend knee for. \m/

Hail Donald!

Joe Walsh is really nice though! So he kind of balances the jerks out.

scott is officially not buy-curious about kanye or diddy.

weighing in as someone who didn't vote in P&J, the results do seem a bit yaaaaawn/predictable/lolkanye.

speaking re: my tastes, there are two albums i LOVED in the top ten (big boi, janelle); three that i liked alright, but wasn't crazy about (kanye, lcd, sleigh bells); two that i heard and didn't care for (arcade fire, black keys); and two that i never heard in full b/c i'm not in any way interested in the various singles & youtubes i've heard of theirs (vampire weekend, the national).

i'd love to hear the diddy album, btw, as soon as i find the deluxe version w/ bonus tracks for less that fucking $16.99

less than*

if the singles are any indication, i would hate the new puffy

Artists who excel at talking out of their ass can get a boosted a few steps above their artistic merit, just for being fun to write about, amirite? Elvis Costello would have filled Kanye's role in this circa 1980. John Lennon in 1970. Chuck D in '89. Eminem around 2000. Opening paragraph- done.

they're not; i disliked or was indifferent to the early singles and ended up adoring the album (xpost)

Singles — Votes For U Smile (800% Slower by Shamantis)

Michael Azerrad
Andy Beta
Jakob Dorof
Daniel Durchholz
Kevin John
Mike Rowell
Gabe Vodicka

looooooooool

i wish there was mention of where each voter currently writes; i'd probably start following a good # of writers based on interesting ballots alone (and perhaps unfollow a couple others?)

Not to change the subject, but has anybody explained when and why critics suddenly started loving Black Keys so much? Aren't they doing pretty much the same thing they always did? (Their single. which finished #20 was slightly reggae, I guess, but if anything it seemed like a step down to me.) So is it just that commercial radio suddenly started playing them more, or what? Almost positive this is the first time they've had either an album or single finish anywhere near this high, and they've been around for years.

"empathies"

0.131 · 7 · Andy Kellman · 2010
0.108 · 6 · Mallory O'Donnell · 2010
0.092 · 5 · Ian Latta · 2010
0.062 · 4 · Jessica Suarez · 2010
0.062 · 4 · Judy Berman · 2010
0.062 · 4 · Candice Jones · 2010
0.062 · 4 · Stephen Thomas Erlewine · 2010
0.061 · 4 · Philip Sherburne · 2010
0.059 · 4 · Jeff Weiss · 2010
0.057 · 4 · Barry Bruner · 2010

I think I like this site more than P&J itself

Also still seems funny to me how Nick Cave was ignored by Pazz & Jop people for decades -- I bet the Birthday Party never got more than a couple votes -- but now he's almost an automatic Top 20, with or without Grinderman. (Okay, I'm not positive where his last albums placed, and too lazy to check. But #15 for the new Grinderman must be something like his lifetime peak, after 30 years.)

So is it just that commercial radio suddenly started playing them more, or what?

I think they do have a higher profile this time around, for whatever reason. The album debuted at #3, "Tighten Up" is currently #1 on the Billboard rock singles chart, they were on SNL recently, etc.

And holy shit, speaking of senior-citizen pigfuckers, I just noticed the Swans album finished 29th!! They've never come close to the Top 40 before, I don't think.

xp Got a few Grammy noms, too, it looks like.

i read that each of the 6 Black Keys albums sold more than the one before it, so i imagine they've just gradually and consistently built their following and raised their profile.

has anybody explained when and why critics suddenly started loving Black Keys so much? Aren't they doing pretty much the same thing they always did?

i think it's just bigger exposure/fanbase = more votes. they've kinda spiraled downward in recent years, going from a more gritty sound with interesting, punchy songs with fun bluesy hooks... to zzzzzz blues-influenced indie rock.

current electorate grew up on his shit = welcome to the top twenty, Nick

i don't know any of empathies.

xpost, see also Tom Waits

new Swans is their best ever near as i can tell.

was gonna say Tom Waits.

i don't get the sense from the younger acts on the list that that many voters 'grew up' on Nick Cave tbh

Highest finishers I never heard of until today: Sharon Van Etten at #42, then Women at #44, then Jonsi at #49, then Emeralds at #50. (Okay, maybe I should've been paying closer attention to them, who knows. I only heard of The Tallest Man On Earth -- #40 -- because we did one of his singles on the Jukebox a few weeks ago. I gave it a 3.)

Also: a lot more guys my age have become Black Keys fans than I would have expected.

and Tom Waits did good on P&J in the '80s, not just more recently xpost

The Black Keys had a very substantial year with their music in commercials and cable programming. Their tunes were all through engagement ring/jewelry advertising during the holiday season. They have the theme music for Hung. And I have no idea how much movie tuneage they've been tapped for but it must be a good deal.

Tallest Man on Earth is the highest finisher I'd never heard of, though I've heard of all the other ones you've named. (Jonsi is the singer from Sigur Ros, fwiw.)

every generation gets the rolling stones it deserves.

Hallelujah really moved "she tied you to a kitchen chair" type songwriters closer to the center.

BK are kinda boring live honestly; sounds like the same song over and over

I thought I was the only Pazz & Jop voter to watch Hung, though! (And I mainly do just because it's partly set in my old high school.) I've also heard Black Keys on Sons Of Anarchy, though, come to think of it. (I wouldn't know about commercials, because I pretty much watch everything on Netflix. But yeah, if they're that exposed these days, that might explain it I guess.)

http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/images/seinfeld1.jpg

who are these people?

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/U2lnaCBObyBNb3Jl/

They're sort of like the Pogues, but with everything that was ever any good about the Pogues taken out. (Also: Big Country, maybe. But folksier.)

Caitlin Dewey
@caitlindewey Syracuse, NY
Journalism student moonlighting as a blogger and music critic. Tweets on cupcakes, music, magazines and all things SU.

I've been aware of the Black Keys for years, but they didn't win me over until this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_PrT25o8Vs

#15 for the new Grinderman must be something like his lifetime peak

Actually come to think of it one of Cave's solo albums might've gone Top 10 when I was running things. (Not my fault.) But it had taken him something like a quarter-century to even make the Top 40 for the first time. And now he's an automatic shoo-in.

Highest finishers I never heard of until today: Sharon Van Etten at #42, then Women at #44, then Jonsi at #49, then Emeralds at #50.

oh how i long to live in a jonsi-free world ;_;

Just walk down the street and be amazed at how many people have never heard of him, and look at you funny for bringing him up.

when did the black keys last change labels? i assumed it was a label/new management thing.

If I'd cast my non-metal ballot, Jonsi would have been on it. For me that, the Goldfrapp album and the School of Seven Bells were a related trio of great shimmery, joyous pop albums. Or what I mean by "great shimmery, joyous pop", anyway.

one of the bigger surprises to me was The Roots sneaking into the top 20 for the first time in 8 years with an album that didn't seem any more acclaimed than the the 2 before it, which feels maybe a symptom of low consensus and/or enthusiasm this year.

my empathies. i hate all these people:

Empathies (Weighted) 20
0.061 · 4 · David Raposa · 2010
0.059 · 4 · JJ Lang · 2010
0.058 · 4 · Jonah Wolf · 2010
0.038 · 3 · Marvin Lin · 2010
0.036 · 3 · Ben Donnelly · 2010
0.027 · 2 · George Smith · 2010
0.025 · 2 · Brandon Stosuy · 2010
0.025 · 2 · Sam Hockley-Smith · 2010
0.018 · 2 · Dan Weiss · 2010
0.017 · 2 · Jayson Greene · 2010
0.017 · 2 · Jesse Fox Mayshark · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Chuck Eddy · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Tal Rosenberg · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Ian Cohen · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Keith Harris · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Thomas Britt · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Ben Westhoff · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Jordan Sargent · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Abe Beame · 2010
0.016 · 2 · Al Shipley · 2010

Black Keys are fucking HUGE among a certain subset of college kids that are almost sort of into jam bands, but scared to fully commit. I saw one of their NYE shows here in Chicago and I was shocked to learn they played three sold-out nights at the Aragon.

Okay, apparently I lied about never having heard of Jonsi. Turns out I gave one of his singles a 1 out 10 back in March, then scrubbed it from my brain. (Rock Critics Are The Art Of Pretend Forgetfullness Thread, here I come again.)

http://www.thesinglesjukebox.com/?p=2025

For those of you scrutinizing the Empathies lists, note that there are separate ones for ballots and voters. Each ballot's empathies are the most similar ballots from that same same year, while each voter's empathies are the most similar voters considering all albums/songs/artists from the three years whose data I have in Needle...

Maybe I should add an Apathies, which lists the people whose opinions you most probably don't give a shit about.

x-post, I thought Whiney was asking who are these voters for Mumford & sons. Randall Grass used to write about reggae and r'n'b for the Voice I think back in the early '80s (and maybe worked at Shanachie). Roy Trakin's been writing that long too.

xp on jonsi - "The monotonously pounding beat, twee-glitch flute and Jónsi’s near-incomprehensible castrato warble (I wasn’t immediately sure this was in English) should likely mark this as more insufferable than it is, but for a somewhat generic uplifter destined to inevitably become a Nissan commercial, it somehow totals to more than charming."
ford explorer actually, but who's counting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l95UgzWWn-Y

i never should have voted for waka. i'm surrounded by friggin' goons:

Abe Beame · 2010
Al Shipley · 2010
Andrew Nosnitsky · 2010
Ben Detrick · 2010
Ben Westhoff · 2010
Christopher R Weingarten · 2010
David Drake · 2010
Ian Cohen · 2010
Jayson Greene · 2010
JJ Lang · 2010
Jonah Wolf · 2010
Jordan Sargent · 2010
Sam Hockley-Smith · 2010
Scott Seward · 2010
Tyrone Palmer · 2010

I liked the Jonsi album both times I played it, then promptly forgot all about it. But that's the way I am with Sigur Ros; every time I see ( ) in my CD tower, I'm like, "Oh yeah, I own that," then I go listen to something else. But when I saw them at Radio City supporting that record, they were great.

first year in awhile I've heard the #1 single.

J0rdan votes in this?!? damn, it is so much harder being a film critic.

Pretty much exactly what unperson says, I remember liking the Jonsi record but never found a reason to go back to it. The only Sigur Ros I've found myself wanting to hear again is that Med Sud... one because it wasn't as dour as the old stuff.

xp price of metamucil is too damn high, it's true

good faux-J0rdan joke

one of the bigger surprises to me was The Roots sneaking into the top 20 for the first time in 8 years with an album that didn't seem any more acclaimed than the the 2 before it, which feels maybe a symptom of low consensus and/or enthusiasm this year.

Could Jimmy Fallon have anything to do with this?

i dunno, the Max Weinberg Seven never placed on P&J

Did the Max Weinberg Seven ever release an album?

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/quiz/65558_1222129819495_473_352.jpg

Roots was Christgau's album of the year, fwiw -- which used to have a residual effect on certain other people's Pazz & Jop ballots, though I'm not sure it would anymore.

I mean, it's not like the Roots were suffering from lack of visibility (at least among critics), but now they're suddenly on national TV five nights a week. Just figured fans of the show might be more likely to give How I Got Over a spin even if they'd ignored the last couple of albums.

it's possible. but i feel like that bump would've been detectable in the sales or reviews of the album 6 months ago if that were the case.

all love morbs

I was gonna say the last two or three Roots records blew it out of the water, but i conveniently forgot How I Got Over existed

they sample joanna newsom

The Roots got 33 votes for Game Theory, 25 for Rising Down, 50 for How I Got Over. I'd make some cynical comment about the guest artists on each one of those albums but

just putting it out there. we're allowed mention fallon but hands off indie

Different topic, here's Glenn on his Needlebase site:

Here's the album chart re-sorted by Hipness, which is a glib label for the percentage of an album's points that came from people who filled out the singles section of their ballot. It has been suggested that grumpy old people do not vote for singles. This table does not dispel that notion.

Except: Ke$ha finished first. And I'm pretty sure lots of grumpy old people voted for her. (I definitely qualify, and I fill out a singles ballot every year. Also Frank Kogan, J.D. Considine, Josh Langhoff, Rob Sheffield, and probably some others whose ages I don't know.)

they sample joanna newsom

Confused why the credits say "ft. Joanna Newsom" as though she were in the studio.

The last two don't come close to Game Theory (not that I voted for any of the three).

xpost, that happens like all the time on rap records, not just ones that have indie rock people on them

ppl do that when they want to cash in on the name

Ha ha, Ke$ha's empathies:

0.188 · 3 · Shakira · She Wolf
0.171 · 3 · Britney Spears · Circus
0.14 · 5 · Taylor Swift · Fearless
0.134 · 6 · Lily Allen · It's Not Me, It's You
0.128 · 5 · Lady Gaga · The Fame/The Fame Monster
0.12 · 3 · Rihanna · Rated R
0.118 · 5 · Rick Ross · Teflon Don
0.116 · 2 · Ashlee Simpson · Bittersweet World
0.116 · 2 · Dolly Parton · Backwoods Barbie
0.116 · 2 · Jace Everett · Red Revelations
0.116 · 2 · Scooter · Under the Radar Over the Top (The Dark Side Edition)
0.104 · 4 · Ne-Yo · Year of the Gentleman
0.104 · 5 · The-Dream · Love Vs. Money
0.103 · 2 · CSS · Donkey
0.098 · 4 · Brad Paisley · American Saturday Night
0.092 · 2 · Danity Kane · Welcome to the Dollhouse
0.092 · 2 · Marina and the Diamonds · The Family Jewels
0.083 · 2 · Bob Seger · Never Mind the Bullets Here's Early Bob Seger
0.083 · 2 · Foxboro Hot Tubs · Stop Drop and Roll!!!
0.083 · 2 · Madonna · Hard Candy

Seger sadly not among Ke$ha's influences.

"tend" to not vote for singles, I said. As with most statistical observations, this doesn't necessarily say anything about any individuals. There are certainly grumpy old people who vote for singles. I vote for singles, and my ballots have no pop in them at all. And presumably there are some supercool hipsters who only vote for albums. But the overall trends emerge despite exceptions in both directions.

I think part of the reason why The Black Keys seems to be getting more and more popular might have to do with their music -- however good, shitty, stagnant, indie, etc. -- penetrating new fanbases. I might be wrong about this, but I think they've been embraced by older classic-rock fans, the post-Alligator blues world and the whole jam band universe. Just a guess though...

I thought I was the only Pazz & Jop voter to watch Hung, though! (And I mainly do just because it's partly set in my old high school.)

I watched most of the first season. My wife was in the background of a scene in the first episode.

think part of the reason why The Black Keys seems to be getting more and more popular might have to do with their music -- however good, shitty, stagnant, indie, etc. -- penetrating new fanbases

Indeed. When you're music is backing for Zales you've reached into the very middle bleeding heart of the US soppy sentimentality from young to old. Attsalottapeople. Was going to mention it on Rolling Hard Rock but didn't because I got the impression I was the only one of the regulars who watch cable TV.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Black+Keys+commercial+zales&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=

Btw, the Old Farts Who've Criminally Never Placed In Pazz & Jop album that I was really hoping might place this year (even though I didn't vote for it myself), the Fall's Your Future Our Clutter, tied for 180th. (Which, for all I know, might be the best they've ever done. Though I wouldn't be totally shocked if, say, This Nation's Savings Grace finished in the Top 200 or so way back in 1985.) If Nick Cave and the Michael Gira can do so well in their old age, why not Mark E. Smith? I don't get that.

Less consistent touring of the US (thus getting less media attention)

You might have a point there.

In other Old Farts Probably Peaking news, Ratt's new album tied for 365th, named on four ballots. Bet that's never happened before.

You don't think Ratt placed back in the 80s?

Appetite For Destruction was pretty much the only hair metal album to place in P&J in the 80s (unless you count Aerosmith's Pump, I guess)

Did anybody vote for Sade in the 80's? (#74 this year) Their album got 26 mentions and just 160 points -- that's got to be near or at the very bottom of the enthusiasm rankings ...

... just as I was writing this, I realized that the VV's numbers are incorrect. The list shows 26 voters and 160 points (although when you click on the album you see that only 17 people voted for it), but Glenn's numbers appear correct with 17 voters and 151 points (and a lower ranking!) And FWIW, the enthusiasm score is fairly low (20th out of 119 albums with 10 or more votes).

Sade's debut LP placed 14th in 1985.

And no, Ratt never even came close -- Not even with "Round And Round," which may or may not have gotten any singles votes in 1984. (Pazz & Joppers did like Van Halen that year, though.)

Some dude's right, though -- basically, no hair-metal except for GnR placed in Pazz & Jop the '80s. Not Def Leppard, not even Bon Jovi's "Livin' On A Prayer" as a single. (Though, by the end of the decade, that one was showing up on certain magazines' best-of-'80s singles lists. The year it came out, critics -- including me -- mainly just considered it something to make fun of.)

Sade were #31 in 1993 too ... I had no idea. Also, it bears repeating: the 1985 albums list is weird (I think there's a thread about it).

Daughtry will finally scrape the bottom of P&J 2021 with an album of Nick Cave interpretations. "Red right hand, yeauh..."

The year it came out, critics -- including me -- mainly just considered it something to make fun of.

In Top 100 that has a top 100 starring bearder mewling morons Mumford And Sons, rapegaze sensations Salem and completely devoid human cokefart Ke$ha, is there any music that critics can agree to make fun of anymore?

Like even stuff like The Fray/Daughtry/Sick Puppies we mostly just ignore

ford explorer actually, but who's counting

omg just hearing 30 sec of jonsi in that commercial makes me want to destroy music. feel like i'm on some lex-level white indie ppl w/ guitars level of hatred steez here ^__________^

Re Sade counts, the Voice is in the middle of getting the 2009 carryover votes in, and at the moment the 9 carryover votes for "Soldier of Love" the song are getting erroneously double-counted for the album of the same name. It'll be fixed. As you noted, these are all right in Needle...

any music that critics can agree to make fun of anymore?

ICP?

Strip-club grunge?

Nickelback.

No lie, I will take any ICP album over Mumford and Sons

Or their collabo, "Little Lion Bitch"

imo there's a lot less 'popular music critics might make fun of' in P&J now than there was 10 or 20 or 30 years ago

Can we talk about how Scott Plagenhoef said his fave album of 2010 was “My iTunes playlist of James Blake’s 2010 collected works” in early Decemeber

http://www.theawl.com/2010/12/nearly-one-hundred-peoples-top-album-of-2010

And how a month later that's an option on Pazz&Jop that charted in the top 100?

has P&J ever counted multiple distinct releases with different titles that haven't been packaged together for retail as one entry before?

did you end up picking that harvey milk as yer fave whiney?

lol did they all really vote for "James Blake, The Bells Sketch/CMYK/Klavierwerke EPs"?

i see old ilxor geeta is among their number

has P&J ever counted multiple distinct releases with different titles that haven't been packaged together for retail as one entry before?

I'm not sure I believe that every one of the 74 people who voted for Robyn on the album ballot voted for Body Talk; I would've thought at least one person would've specified one of the three EPs rather than the catch-all compilation.

I'm just glad I don't have to be the guy making these decisions anymore -- it gets more and more confusing! I doubt all the people who voted for Cokefart's Animal mentioned Cannibal, either; ditto for the Gaga's Fame and Monster last year, though eventual tallies might imply otherwise. Plus, lots of these albums probably have various extra-track versions available at different retailers, not all of which everybody voting for them would approve of. But I guess it's the same as what Pazz & Jop has been doing with singles for years, where alternate mixes count as part of the record's total (except when they don't.)

Still, bundling up individual votes for distinct EPs as one "release" does sound kind of sketchy (says the guy who gave 30 points to a 111st-placing album that doesn't actually exist.)

has P&J ever counted multiple distinct releases with different titles that haven't been packaged together for retail as one entry before?

I'm not sure I believe that every one of the 74 people who voted for Robyn on the album ballot voted for Body Talk; I would've thought at least one person would've specified one of the three EPs rather than the catch-all compilation.

― Tyler/Perry's "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)" (jaymc), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:35 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

they're all called Body Talk, though, hence the "different titles" specification

Yes, in the James Blake case there were a variety of votes for different combinations of those EPs (single, doubly and triply!), so we decided to combine them. There was some similar combining for variations of Body Talk, as you guessed, and for Animal/Cannibal. Similarly for The Fame/The Fame Monster last year. In all these cases there were some votes *for* the combinations, and there was no good way to split those, so it seemed better to combine than to leave the votes semi-artificially fragmented among different configurations.

Presumably this applied to Yelawolf too.

e-40 kinda like that too although they were also sold together (with a t-shirt)

currensy probably suffered from this i imagine, but those were pretty distinct releases anyway

these are totally distinct releases. even curren$y at least had the same name tho it's pretty much the same thing to group them as one

Yes on Yelawolf and E-40, no on Curren$y. Nobody explicitly voted for Pilot Talk and Pilot Talk II together, whereas in the Yelawolf and E-40 cases there were some combined votes. If you're really curious, there's a view of all the corrections I made this year here:

https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop&query=All+Corrections

Eminen W Phianna

this seems like a rather un-contentious year for pnj.

maybe we can make some hay out of the james blake thing. not too many blake fans on ilx right?

currensy probably suffered from this i imagine, but those were pretty distinct releases anyway

ke$ha animal/cannibal was pretty distinctly different imo -- weren't they released like 10-11 months apart??

lol @ glenn's worksheet of corrections

the person who voted for "My Beautiful Dark Twitsed Fantasy" perhaps took the "twisted" part a bit too literally, no?

they were also released together as a deluxe edition of the former, not unlike The Fame Monster. (xpost)

and, like, if you're voting for "My Beautiful Dark Twisted" or "My Beautiful Dark Secret Fantasy" or even "My Beautiful Dark Twist Fantasy" and can't even proofread yr fxcking ballot, you are too dumb to vote imo

lol @ "LCD Soundsystem - This Is It"

the strokes reborn a decade later via james murphy... too telling

Yeasayer - Odd Blodd

ah i see, there was one triple vote and one double vote re the blake EPs. kind of an odd thing for those voters to do but not alas some widespread lockstep voting technique

Deerhunter - Halcyon Dreams

Needle finds most of the simple typos for me. The real pain in the ass is people who fill out the ballots backwards, reversing album/artist or song/artist. Even those I can find pretty easily in Needle if there are correct-order votes to match them up with. But a special circle in my hell is reserved for people who don't read the instructions AND vote for things nobody else has ever heard of, so I have to look them up one by one to find out whether they're backwards or not. I'm looking at you, Todd Burns.

animal/cannibal came out in one deluxe edition

Right, so did Fame/Monster last year.

I definitely saw some ballots last night that still had artists and titles, or even labels and titles, transposed. (In their singles, at least.) But like I said above, a few of those, in my experience, are inevitable.

And although I really enjoy doing this, I'll say that the peak of my enjoyment doesn't come at the moment when I'm looking up how many fucking "Na"s there are in "Na Na Na (Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na)".

Yes, a few reversals got fixed today after people pointed them out; none affected anything that had more than 1 vote. Happy to fix anything else anybody can point out to me!

hahaha xp

Nax12 iirc

man, i'm totally gonna spend and hour looking for the most egregious typos now

whiney i got u covered already dawg

And although I really enjoy doing this, I'll say that the peak of my enjoyment doesn't come at the moment when I'm looking up how many fucking "Na"s there are in "Na Na Na (Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na)".

― glenn mcdonald, Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:14 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol Al

man, i'm totally gonna spend and hour looking for the most egregious typos now

candidate ^^

The only thing that would really mess up those Gaga and Ke$ha votes would be if somebody voted for both of them, separately, and their points were combined into more than the max 30 points. But I don't know if that happened. (Jimmy Draper listed both Gagas separately last year, iirc.) Of course, it's possible somebody voting for Animal might not like Cannibal much, but I'm not sure what you'd do about that if most other people are voting for them together, and they were commercially available that way.

What actual working critics are the ones putting album titles in quotation marks?!

Billboard's style is to put album titles in quote marks, so they look the same as singles! I hated that when I was there.

In Martin Popoff's metal book, he italicizes song titles and bold-faces albums. It made my blood boil for a while, but I'm used to it now.

Oh, I check for those duplicate votes, and for various other point abuses, intentional or accidental. Computers, man. They're really good at counting.

i forgot votes would get carried over from last year - hurrah i technically voted for "soldier of love" and "try sleeping with a broken heart" here too (i think).

i guess i admit that in placing ciara's basic instinct as my #1 album of the year, i was absolutely also thinking about the stuff that emerged by her (some official, some leaked) in 2010 that didn't make the album. though even that is better than arbitrarily bundling up 4 separate releases into one - all of that ciara material is at least connected to the album (ie released by her as a trailer for it, or recorded during the sessions for it, or whatever)

Sleigh Bells - Ring Ring

Didn't Nelson George vote for Kelis' Tasty in '03 AND '04?

If so, his '03 votes wouldn't have been subtracted from the '04 carryover totals. (That definitely happened a few times when I was there, but I'm not sure about George with Kelis.)

Would have been subtracted from the '04 carryover totals, I meant (like all duplicate votes.)

A pedant writes: I'm pretty sure Exile on Main St. is correct (as opposed to Exile on Main Street, as it appears in the poll) and B.o.B should be written without the final period, ie. not like this: B.o.B.

Pedantry cheerfully accepted.

The earlier problems with Soldier of Love, and with links leading to combined voters for same-named things, have both been fixed in the Voice's version now.

when i click on some of the songs on my ballot it doesnt list my name as having voted for them i.e.
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2010/VG9wIHRvIHRoZSBCb3R0b20=/

Fyi Glenn, the 2010 Billboard Songs links to the 2009 list.

Deej: refresh your ballot-page and then try again. Looks like you were trying to follow links from before the samed-name fix I mentioned above. If that still doesn't work, post the link to your page so I know who you are, and I'll look.

Thanks Reverend, fixed that.

still doing it. i cleared the cache even.

d@vld dr@k3

Oh, well, that's simple: all the links from ballots to albums/songs are broken at the moment. Pretty sure it's still a result of the fix for same-name things, but it's broken on the server side, not yours. I'll let them know. In the meantime, you can use the version I control, which works:

https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop&thread=%4022504&typeId=9149585060559937602&render=List

A Voice blogger gets wonky about Pazz & Jops present and past

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/01/the_six_most_de.php

Having spent the last two weeks poring through Pazz & Jop 2010, I've learned everything from the two albums most statistically similar to a bootleg compilation of early Bob Seger (those would be Flockaveli and Ke$ha's Animal/Cannibal combo) to the number of writers who ended their comments with an ironic "Get off my lawn!" (surprisingly, only two). As fun as those pieces of information might be, the most significant statistic this year remains the record-setting margin by which Kanye West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy won the albums poll.

did my vote for flockaveli somehow connect it with the bob seger comp? cool!

The math knows not why, it just knows "is".

The Voice now has a blog post from me about data analytics: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/01/pazz_jop_stats.php

omg kanye looks coked outta his f'n mind in the main p&j photo

http://media.villagevoice.com/5872541.0.jpg

http://media.villagevoice.com/5872541.0.jpg

dang it's not workin

ahhh here we go:

http://media.villagevoice.com/5873726.87.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHmYXvO8hQI

FUCK

i quit

view here: http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-01-19/music/kanye-west-wins-one-for-the-douchebags

idgi

because his eyes are open?

pazz and jop is the worst thing about music criticism and ilx should have nothing to do with its elitist, canon-chewing fuckwaddery

-_-

cocaine use usually involves dilated pupils, or at least glassy eyes, correct _or_ incorrect?

Look everyone, it's LJ!

on a slightly related note, kanye west and james murphy are artless, boring hacks

cocaine apparently involves holding your breath so you look all froggy

actually dude I'm pretty sure you're the artless, boring hack here, since you can't seem to come up with anything new to say, ever

oh burn

maybe you should look at the threads I contribute positively to (most of them) and not the ones I fight the familiar fight on

half the time your positive contributions make no sense because you talk about music as if it was a tool for bolstering your credibility rather than a fantastic thing that should be enjoyed in savored in as many different guises as you can consume it

watch it guys or else I'm going to poll BLANK (Boi/LCD/Arcade/Nat'l/Kanye)

3 out of 5 of those are very good to fantastic

didn't you say that about GAPDY?

probably; I don't actually mind it when a lot of people like the same thing I like

half the time your positive contributions make no sense because you talk about music as if it was a tool for bolstering your credibility rather than a fantastic thing that should be enjoyed in savored in as many different guises as you can consume it

absolutely fuck you.

that's a horrible thing to say and yeah I'll say it again: fuck you.

(i'm lying; you only thought YYYs were v. good -> fantastic)

LJ you like Vampire Weekend?

(honest question)

fuck you right back

I'm very tired of your rampaging thoughtless ego shitting up every fucking thread I want to read

christ and to think I actually engaged you on that Kokayi album which nobody else has seen fit to comment on

DN is a John Justen inspired joke

you are a decent person but you still need to learn when to shut the fuck up

some serious pot/kettle shit going on there

this thread has several hundred posts and I've popped on with my two cents - and that's shitted up the whole thread? wtf

although really p&j only reinforces stuff we already know so anything could be said here and it would change nothing

http://candyaddict.com/blog/candy_images/kit_kat_gimme_a_break.jpg

contenderizer otm

anyway, make slurs about me wanting only to talk about music in a way that shows how cool I am when I have a decidedly unfashionable taste and a habit of proselytising stuff I like - trying to get others on board, being inclusive etc - just, wow.

sorry LJ I wd back you up but I haven't heard the new Kanye or LCD...

what are the albums/songs on this year's p&j that you actually do like? I don't think I know what you were digging this year at all except for Y.F.O.C.

pazz and jop is the worst thing about music criticism and ilx should have nothing to do with its elitist, canon-chewing fuckwaddery

lol pretty sure I discovered ILM by googling something like "2002 pazz and jop."

big boi, titus andronicus, caribou, swans, four tet, neil young, agalloch, pantha du prince all had their moments without blowing me away, and none got on my 25 for the ilxpoll, at which point we exit the top 100

need to hear that zs album mind

mildly annoyed that they conflated all the robyn eps with each other

2010 P&J albums doesn't get to stuff i'm surprised and happy to see until around 70th place: sun city girls and marnie stern. fuck ya. also zs, ty seagal, glasser, fresh & onlys, ludicra, earl sweatshirt as we toddle off into the 100s. sun araw wuz robbed.

what's the deal with the sharon van etten record on ba da bing? don't think i heard anything about it...

lj, christ, take some meds. you are no fun at all lately bro.

take some meds

you're really helping! jeez

actually I'm not posting to most of ILX's high-traffic boards at all atm so I'm not really much of anything - but today is a bad day fine w/e

yo i hear some jagger stuff just popped off

pazz and jop is the worst thing about music criticism

Curious as to what's the best thing.

@Discographies

@discographies is the fucking worst, i've called it the death of criticism and meant it

HI HAVE SOME SNARKY CONSENSUS-BASED RECEIVED WISDOM THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE MUSIC OR THINK ABOUT TO LOL AT

fucking fucking hate it so much, would punch that dude in the face, wish people would cease RTing the cunt