Best new blogs 2002?

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Which are your favourite new blogs of 2002? Music or non, I'll start wiv mine:

The Compass - crested early, then petered out and is trying to crest again. Never heard a single thing mentioned on it (a lie, but almost true) but it's as if Ronan is just energy bound together by loads of little, weak rivets, every so often a little shiver of heat will flirt past yr eyes, then, THEN, paroxysms of joy. Energetic, in a word. (Start it back, you fuckra!)

The Church of Me - ohmyGodwhenwillIbeMarcelloCarlin? For "An American Trilogy" alone = classic. There's this beautiful tension I get when reading it, like watching ants re-build their hill kicked by a surly youngster, like I shouldn't be looking, but the writing is so good, so many things to say, and beautiful ways to say them.

tecnhnicolor. - grumpy fucker!

(Church of Me is also my favourite blog, new or old, of the year so far, by a long way.)

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:25 (twenty-three years ago)

And no-one told me gareth has a blog... grr...

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:27 (twenty-three years ago)

For "An American Trilogy" alone = classic.

Quite so. I admit I'm not a regular blog reader at present, but Marcello was kind enough to mention that entry to me and I'm very glad I checked it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank you Mr H, I do my best, I've been trying to update a bit more lately but with work I just feel the urge to write rants and complaints and somehow relate dance music to the mundanites of a petrol station. (an article on Two Months Off coming soon, somewhere, somehow)

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:34 (twenty-three years ago)

haha, I'm still not talking to you, though. :)

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:43 (twenty-three years ago)

why not

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Prosthesus of Ronan's arm, Ronan's living room, Ronan's Christmas day, Ronan's crying. Anymore of your lip, son.

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

i appreciate your readership david. i still think you're insane, however. i'm not sure if this reinforces that perception or not.

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Why am I insane? No, err, why do you think that?

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:58 (twenty-three years ago)

And you're not allowed to quote "Ronan's Prosthesus", k?

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:59 (twenty-three years ago)

(Back to the blogs people, after jess has mopped up his mess.)

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:59 (twenty-three years ago)

thank you folx! we'll be here all week!

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 15:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Yo, what about Daddino & Land of 1000 Dances? He's smokin'!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 17:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Is spizzazz new? It Xors like a dinoXor anyway, new or old.

david h (david h), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 17:33 (twenty-three years ago)

I like the jess blog as well. Especially on the rare occasion he talks something he actually LIKES.

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

thanks david h!br>

my answer: spizzazzz

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 19:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Church of Marcello and that kandi kolored rave boyee jess' teknikolor blog of course. those two plus josh' blog are practically the only ones i read these days (which are too packed to bother with da net)

nathalie (nathalie), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

(i read josh' and tim finney's even though both said they were impressed with my writing of late> this obv resulted in me turning back to crappy writing hahah)

nathalie (nathalie), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

vote for Boom Selection you bastads

blueski, Tuesday, 20 August 2002 21:09 (twenty-three years ago)

New favourites are:
- double americano with some good daily posts on indie music
- waking ear with short daily posts on single songs
- fluxblog with a similar taste to mine concerning old indierock darlings: Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Pavement etc.
- the rub passed under my radar till recently but has some interesting posts on rock
- freezing to death... with a stone age design but good indie centred posts
- all i want is the world likes bands like the Red House Painters
- grossoutart with solid well-thought posts on bands I often don't know but would like to check out.

By the way why did so few people put their url in the user settings up to now? That's like a free advertisement for your blog...

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 21:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Another vote for Freezing and Fluxblog. Wheelbarrow is also rife with dopeness.
No, I'm not sad about nobody voting for my blog yet. So there.

Nate Patrin, Tuesday, 20 August 2002 22:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I vote for Nate, but I wish he'd continue with his "Quarter-Century of Pop Music," which was seriously fucking awesome and some of the best pop-music commentary I've ever read.

Alex, thanks for the plug. Sorry my site design is "stone age" -- I've been meaning to tinker with it but other projects have consumed a lot of my time recently.

Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 20 August 2002 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

i would like the first paragraph of the last remarks striken from the record plz, yr honor.

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 20 August 2002 23:57 (twenty-three years ago)

haha i discussed w.julio whether to write up derek bailey and eddie prevost on radio free narnia but decided why start spoiling it wiv stupid musictalk at this late stage, when i cd be discussing the G8 Summit in the light of some goofy old edwardian horror story

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 00:08 (twenty-three years ago)

i would like the first paragraph of the last remarks striken from the record plz, yr honor.
Denied, mufuka.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 00:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Nate's is good, as is The Minor Fall, The Major Lift.
double americano with some good daily posts on indie music: ha, not so daily at the moment, i can still only type with one hand. maybe in a week.

lyra (lyra), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 01:13 (twenty-three years ago)

(hand grenade). browsing the more recent posts i'm running into blogs i've never seen or not recently -- more rockboy than i care for. and i'm suddenly disturbed by what seems like the casual mild sexism and "badboy" attitude that i guess is what jess wrote about way back on technicolor. this correlation (no causation suggested) is v. disturbing, as i drove tonight listening to zz top, clapton, springsteen, and early 80s indie and thought i wuz liking rock again -- but it never felt like the way i see it talked about here.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 05:39 (twenty-three years ago)

haha, the real answer is Shazam!... haha, not yet. not yet.

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 05:48 (twenty-three years ago)

the church of me is indeed an awe-inspiring bloggurat (er, erase that). & his thread announcing it is still unanswered, strangely enough.

fluxblog has been interesting (esp. the non-music stuff), & general shouts to technicolor, land of a thousand dances, the compass & stevie nixed. probably not new, but I'm frequently checking up on joshblog, mochi manifesto, skykicking & hipster detritus.

sadly I have yet to find an aotearoa-tastic musicblog & will undoubtedly/foolishly start one.

Ess Kay (esskay), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 06:01 (twenty-three years ago)

fluxblog? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . . what a pile of precious pedestrian crap. what a collection of knee jerk prattle. blogs in general are a sign of the coming apocalypse. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . .

mitchum sands (jackcole), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 06:31 (twenty-three years ago)

''haha i discussed w.julio whether to write up derek bailey''

you don't have to 'write up'. andrew L posted to report how it went so some 'quick words' would be nice.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 08:07 (twenty-three years ago)

grrr nath your writing is NOT crappy - my church would be empty without Stevie Nixed to inspire it :-)

I'm very impressed by Shazam! so far - some of the best writing I've seen this year, and thanks for the kind words David.

I'm off home to Glasgow for a week as of tomorrow for a much-needed break and will be away from computers, so CoM will be on holiday for a week, but I'm sure there's more than enough on there as it is to keep everyone going for now.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 09:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Marcello - we should meet up, or something. I live in Glasgow, obv. I'd be scared, but it could be interesting. Or not, whatever. Thanks for the words.

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Marcello - whatd'ya think abt Revolutionary Road, btw?

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 10:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I forgot monkey puzzle from Australia who buys even more CDs than me but has almost exactly my music taste. At least concerning indie rock.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 10:49 (twenty-three years ago)

aw Dave I was thinking about that. Depends whether I can get away from my mum for long enough, bless her, but we'll see. No need to be scared!!

although the main reason I am going up to stay with my mum is because Sunday 25th will be the first anniversary of Laura's death, and it's a day when I will need to be in familiar surroundings, and most importantly not be alone.

I will definitely be writing something about Revolutionary Road on CoM when I get back next week. It's an astonishing book. The final two chapters are almost unbearable in their largely unspoken intensity - whose "death" is the greater?

One of the main ideas behind Stanley Spencer's original "church of me" was to celebrate and keep alive the spirit of his late wife. So it is with me, except in a way it is keeping both Laura's spirit and my own spirit alive.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 10:54 (twenty-three years ago)

...take your time...

Also, if not already done, pick up a copy of Robin Jenkins' "Just Duffy", as harrowing as RR, but possibly not as debilitating.

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 14:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Church of Me by a country mile. I don't count Technicolor 'cause Jess cheated and merely switched names. I wish I had more time to stay on top (and be aware) of the others.

Andy K (Andy K), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 15:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Church of Me is very impressive and I try to read it but I can't read all as there is too much. And my attention span is too short. Plus I have never heard of many artists there or I don't give a damn sometimes. But I enjoy reading on those I like, like Bright Eyes, Gilian Welch, Gang of Four etc. Very insightful posts, much better than any music mag...

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 15:32 (twenty-three years ago)

(How do I set my archives to a difft page so that I don't have to re-archive every time I post?)

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 15:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Cheer up, Nate P., I read Hipster Detritus probably the most often of any blog. I recently discovered the Church of Me and have been enjoying getting into that as well.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

o. nate = fanboy? "O Nate, be still my beating heart!" teehee

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 15:47 (twenty-three years ago)

does that grenade have anyone to be chewed by sterling?

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

concerning the archives there is often a problem with the index, it often goes back to nothing or just one link, david. your july archive exists but there is no link on the main page. in that case try to switch archives off, publish, set archives on again to the frequency you like, republish the archives and it should be ok. if that doesn't help try to use the help on the blogger main page. it is quite useful.
in general the archive page should be automatically generated whenever you post something new.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Night Club Jitters is brand new, but already looking good.

Jeff (Jeff), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Yo, us Nathans have to stick together.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

okay, my real answer:

c.o.m.: obviously, which marcello already damn well knows.
fluxblog: which i don't have anything witty to say about, but is very solid.
the compass: which i will continue to berate ronan to keep up with.
shazam: which, although i'm often left wondering just what the hell david is talking about, is intriguing enough to keep me going back.
spizzazz: which is just brilliant in every way.

blogs which returned after an enforced absence:

vain selfish and lazy: fred's taste and mine are nothing alike, but i like fred. in fact i still <3 him, even.
land of a thousand dances: when i grow up i want to have mikey d's babies. 10,000 of them.

the rest are the ones i've been reading for a a year or more - josh, tim, andy k, popshots, nylpm (i'm not sure if this counts since i write for it), honda, mark s, starry, matos, maura, badger, (did wisdom goof start in 2001 or 2002?), gareth, nathalie...

blogs which need to return asap:

bleeding ears, in review...

i also have to say that, unsurprisingly, i agree with sterling. maybe it's just that recently we've been forced to look at more blogs outside of our little incestuous ghetto and they've always been around, but i'd rather strip the skin from my body and dip myself in lemon juice than read anymore about bitches, blowjobs (hah or the desperate attempt to procure them you feebs), and punk fukin rawk (or it's indie equivalent.) ditto: "rock myth" perpetuating, the presentation of aesthetics 101 concepts as springing fully formed from the head of athena, reactionary anti-pop rhetoric, defensive taste sloganeering, cod-professionalism, blah blah...

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

You only have to ask! Haha, I suspected that I don't really work. (For curiosities sake I posted two 'straight' posts. One trying to elaborate on exactly what that Ryan Adams post was about. It was about something, honest. And one on the Liars which you can all kick me in the teeth, right here, for being so f'in wrong.)

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

duh jess - I'm talking about the thing which heads up the post. IN BOLD, no less.

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:36 (twenty-three years ago)

i know. i stole that from you.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

What in the hell is wrong with "punk fukin rawk"?

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

is there an emoticon for beating ones head repeatedly against the computer monitor?

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

(==jjj==|;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;> *KAZAA!* ((_)==jjjjD Err, wrong board...

d perry (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

No, I'm serious. Answer my question. Do we all have to write like Greil goddamned Marcus with a PHD in ethnomusicology and a hardon for ABBA to have a fucking blog nowadays? I mean, Jesus.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

fite

david h (david h), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

'why do you have to hate what you don't understand?'

'I don't hate you, bobby'

'I was talking about soccer'

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

What in the hell is wrong with "punk fukin rawk"?

When it is orthodoxy and not heterodoxy.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

haha nate, i don't know what you're so defensive about...you're part of the majority! enjoy it!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

'ILM: making the majority anxious about why the minority is looking at them so funny since 2000'

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

there's an apartheid metaphor to be made here, somewhere.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

who's whitey?

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:51 (twenty-three years ago)

wait I know the answer to that

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

i'll give you a hint: p.f.r.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I always wondered what it'd be like to watch a schizophrenic have a conversation with himself.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

don't you have anything besides 'crazy' insults? come on at least try.

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:05 (twenty-three years ago)

swing and a miss.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:05 (twenty-three years ago)

see baseball that's a fresh source of material there

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll do better than "crazy" when you do better than "rockist".

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

never much cared for it myself

is there something wrong with having a phd in ethnomusicology? or a hardon for abba? (obv there is something wrong with being greil marcus hahaha) or like not just asserting your preconceived notions like they're the law of the land? cuz like until you start thinking about that all you're going to get are tired 'rockists' from people sick of the endless streams of people who stumble upon ilm and think their old punk rock records are the greatest ever any anyone who doesn't think so is crazy or stupid.

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:11 (twenty-three years ago)

punk was never afraid of taking over the world. somewhere this ceased and it become afraid of itself.

Rough analogy -- early panthers had all sortsa shit towards women but then these were guys who never came from a place where women were respected and despite the problems women STILL got more respect in the panthers than anywhere else they'd been but then in the decline the old crap came back with a vengence and meanwhile since the WHOLE was valorized, the nastiness towards women in the panthers rather than being viewed as a process of tension transformed into something to either reject them wholesale with or valorize wholesale with them.

Sorta.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:15 (twenty-three years ago)

you sure know how to make a guy feel down sterl

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I hate to reprint an entire blog entry verbatim but I don't think you'd click on a link. I wrote this last night:

"The Clash are great. Fugazi are boring.

I'm not at liberty to say why. Or maybe I am but I don't feel like it. Maybe I assume it should be immediately obvious to even the most simple-minded individual. Why? Because it's a concrete fact. Clash=great, Fugazi=boring, end of discussion.

Think about that for a while. How did you react to those statements? Did you nod in agreement or roll your eyes or rush to your blog to post about how you are going to kick my ass for such blasphemy? Did you agree with both statements? Just the former? Just the latter? Neither? And in doing so, did you decide to appraise my musical taste, knowledge and mindset? Did you just up and say "this imbecile has no idea what real music is"?

That's what I've been contemplating lately re: music criticism and dialogue. I've wondered about why there's such a thing as a critical consensus and a canon, about why writers feel the way they do about music and choose to express it in such authoritative terms -- "Best Rock and Roll Band In America"; "The Future of Rock"; "[Band name] has come to save rock"; even "best album of the year" seems sort of meaningless to me. Should I believe Greil Marcus when anoints some record or another as a work of greatness when he curtly dismissed Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (a record I admire, if not love) as a shoddy attempt at remaking Revolver? Should you give half a damn what I have to say after I called the band that changed your life "boring"?

No. But Greil and I and thousands upon thousands say it anyway because, and this is pure theory on my part, we don't really know or care who our audience is. There's different levels of commitment to this whole Pop Music Fandom thing and once you get past a certain level into one of the higher echelons most of it seems to be fairly solipsistic. "Here is the music I listened to today. Here is my opinion. Here are a stray fact or two, a comparison, an analogy and my final conclusion. I suppose you could call this opinion though I really think it should merely be inferred." Oh sure, I could go into great lengths as to why I thought the hypothetical Clash are great and why the hypothetical Fugazi are boring, but no amount of flowery prose or steely-gazed deconstruction are likely to sway you from your opinion. Even when a writer I like and agree with at least 75% of the time lets slip with a backhand or a curt dismissal of a song or an album or a band I've invested a lot of emotion in my distrust kicks in right away. Ben Hamper's Rivethead is one of the best works of non-fiction I've ever read and the story of his life on the assembly line is engaging as hell but that doesn't mean his dislike of Bruce Springsteen makes me want to toss out my E Street Shuffle LP.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it seems like a somewhat depressing exercise to exhibit one's musical tastes as a guide or an arbiter of anything whatsoever. I'm not an authority on pop music, even if I listen to it as often as possible during my waking life. I throw things at you and try to figure out what readers catch, what they drop, what they throw back (whether towards my hands or directly at my groin). Really, my taste shouldn't really count for that much. What should count is the potential for you to find something, anything that you like. Somewhere there is probably some reader who has stumbled across this blog and snorted in derision at some of the things I say, but then they run across some mention of a band somewhere that seems intriguing and somehow this asshole writer who has just shat on Ian MacKaye and placed some poser white-reggae punklets on a pedestal has by sheer luck managed to turn them on to their new favorite band."

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:36 (twenty-three years ago)

ha, jokes on you, we both already read that!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:39 (twenty-three years ago)

And paid no fucking attention, obviously, except maybe to say "hahahahaha what bullshit". I fucking despise you.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:43 (twenty-three years ago)

so connect the dots for me, I'm sleepy. what do you want to say by pasting that here?

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:45 (twenty-three years ago)

josh made me start listening to fugazi again — even tho dear god i saw them live once!! — by writing something interesting about them: there's no reasons in principle why someone couldn't make me listen to the clash again, by doing the same thing => it's true that it's unlikely to be "they are my favourite band cuz they rock unlike all this manufactured pop crap and if u don't know that u r gay!!", but you don't write like that anyway, nate...


i have always been a bit baffled by the amount some ppl pick on nate, but i am equally baffled that he lets it bother him so much when he's so obviously NOT guilty of most of the things they're against (like, er, "judging people by their taste")

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean, is it supposed to be an excuse? a contemplation of dropping the you-crazy-people posturing? a recognition of irreconcilable differences that should just be ignored in favor of 'finding something'?

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:48 (twenty-three years ago)

the resolution of your bafflement lies in your post, mark

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:52 (twenty-three years ago)

The point is to find something in EVERYTHING. (haha "even here is holy").

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I suppose if I really participated in as much "you don't like this band ergo YOU SUK" foofaraw as you think I do then I guess that yeah it could probably be the second, but let's be honest here and drop all pretense whatsoever: the other side of that coin is even more obnoxious. Shouldn't something like that Vice article be as equally torn apart for saying "you DO like this band ergo YOU SUK"? (Which I try not to do so much lately.)

Also I take back that "fucking despise" stuff. I'm not especially happy right now but I went a little overly hostile there and probably proved a point I didn't really want to.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:54 (twenty-three years ago)

nate, these aren't serious personal attacks. (well, they might be from josh, but i doubt it.) but if you come out swinging, you can't expect us not to try to defend our positions. besides, it's meant in something approximating the spirit of fun. i don't think i've ever come out with something like "i fucking despise you" here (hah, even though there are a few people who i've met through ilx where that might be the case), and i certainly don't despise you. we disagree, a lot and often, but that can be said about 50% of the people on these boards. if there's one koan i can offer about ilx (it worked for me) it is: accept that you know nothing about everything and something about some things and move from there. you can't expect everyone to hold your hand through the development of your aesthetic (which NEVER ENDS, or shouldn't), especially when many (if not most) have experienced similar already. being a writer (and like frank, i think anyone who bothers to post here is a writer) is partially about growing a thick hide in the service of your convictions (even - especially! - with the understanding that they'll change over time) not a turtle shell to hide in. (i think you know this, too, but the defensiveness of a lot of your writing belies it.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)

if you didn't show so many signs of being aware of our deal by scoffing at our deal then we wouldn't waste the time. the vice magazine people aren't worth that much effort.

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)

(see, i can be even handed too!)

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:02 (twenty-three years ago)

(which means that nate's last post is groping towards a sort of relevatory idea of what [at least i think] ilm is "all about": dismantling ideas, examining them, putting them back together, and seeing if we can make them "better", more inclusive, broader in scope rather than narrower. nate, whether he realizes or not, does fit into ilm, even if he doesn't have a "hardon for abba". [i don't either, btw.])

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:08 (twenty-three years ago)

or a phd in ethnomusicology. either of you.

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:10 (twenty-three years ago)

(alternately, for "ilm" read: "writing.")

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

man if we could GET a phd in ethnomusicology on here that would be sweet

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Well this whole deal had the misfortune to arise at a point where I've been ridiculously self-critical while simultaneously being ultra-defensive about my writing. I get the sense sometimes that I'm really not that good at this whole thing so instead of writing involved deconstructions and analyses of various pop phenomena I'm just resorting to "this album rocks the hell out" -- when I can't work up my critical skills sometimes I just resort to hyperbolic enthusiasm. I've also had the recent tendency to be unable to disconnect albums I like with the things I read about them (aka Isthisititis) so whenever I listen to a record at certain points there is sometimes a nagging voice in the back of my head that says "you're naive for liking this you know -- I mean, Christgau gave it a C-!" Ergo my overreacting to everything. It's something I've been doing for at least five years, dating back to an ultra-vitriolic letter I wrote at age 19 to City Pages after they slagged Fat Of the Land of all albums (fortunately the target of my vitriol was Jim DeRogatis, ha ha). I suppose I still have some immaturity in that respect.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

"I'm most of all convinced that the book is not a joke"; key word: "convinced"—thanks MUCH, you fucker

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

when it comes to JdR, there is not enough vitriolic immaturity on the whole of planet ilxor!!

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

haha mark is the meltz quote directed my "something 'approximating' the spirit of fun" or the "groping towards"?

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)

u *were* being a bit "de ho en bah"

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:22 (twenty-three years ago)

i'll have to take your word for it.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:24 (twenty-three years ago)

(since i'm too stupid to know what the hell you're talking about.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:25 (twenty-three years ago)

hyperbolic enthusiasm = better when it's the hippy kind. or zen mind kind.

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:26 (twenty-three years ago)

taking sides: overreacting vs. listing what records you bought today.

(i'm still going with the former even if it results in people saying they fucking despise me.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Dubplatestyle: what the hell does this mean??:
Dubplatestyle: u *were* being a bit "de ho en bah"
-- mark s (mark@evazev.demon.co.uk), August 21st, 2002.
kortbein: hahaha
kortbein: I'm… not… sure
Dubplatestyle: i'm serious!
Dubplatestyle: i dont know how to respond to that.
kortbein: uh.
kortbein: de… ho… en… bah…
Dubplatestyle: haha
kortbein: de… ho… en… bah…?

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i prefer parabolic enthusiasm, despite the problems this causes subway sect

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, A)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Alors, petit objet A

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

"Réponse chez Yahoo!"

Why that line makes me smile, I don't know. It just does.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Best blahg ever: Pure Rock Fury!

Fluxblahg is oh so poorly thought-out/written.

hstencil, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

that is without a doubt the saddest thing i've ever read. let me guess: it's got some ties to the fmbb?

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:12 (twenty-three years ago)

haha who wants to bet five dollars that guy posts something tonite about wanting to "kick my ass"?

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:14 (twenty-three years ago)

He hates me, too! Finally me and jess have common ground once again

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah. that was what set me off. The FMBB ran into server trouble because among other things they called a customer service rep from the company a "stupid bitch". sigh.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:21 (twenty-three years ago)

let that be a lesson to you kiddies: if you want something fixed right, make sure you get a goddamn man on the phone!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:23 (twenty-three years ago)

jess a real man would never beat up a girl

isn't it cute how all the fmbb stylee blogs are united in their a) command of touch and go catalog factoids, b) love for 'good writing' and hate for anything connected to FT and ILM, and c) misanthropy? I bet they have a treehouse where they smoke cigarettes they stole from mom's purse, too.

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:24 (twenty-three years ago)

josh, you better watch out...you don't have a girls name to protect you through the anonymity of the internet!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:26 (twenty-three years ago)

also: it's the lamest version of misanthropy ever. it's like celine as interpreted by wwf fan fiction and old issues of forced exposure.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:27 (twenty-three years ago)

this would require reading celine though

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:29 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah jess but bitches need smacked down too though so keep your head down!

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:33 (twenty-three years ago)

you're telling me tupac was wrong?!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I wouldn't know I don't listen to music made by black people jess

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:46 (twenty-three years ago)

except public enemy

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:46 (twenty-three years ago)

josh obviously i meant celine dion.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:47 (twenty-three years ago)

and james brown

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:47 (twenty-three years ago)

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:48 (twenty-three years ago)

oh well then no reading necessary whew

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:48 (twenty-three years ago)

< /wigga >

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Fluxblahg is oh so poorly thought-out/written

Seems pretty well-done to me. I really like his recent commentary regarding a particularly bad Stylus article on Jim O'Rourke:

Honest, maybe. Articulate, possibly. But certainly not rational - it's all vicious hyperbole, mindless bile aimed at a person who I really don't think is worth getting worked up about. I don't trust this guy at all, and his willingness to go along with the ridiculous notion that Sonic Youth are in an "obvious decline", or worse, that their work (or the simple fact that O'Rourke is now a member of the band) must be 'groundbreaking' is little more than sub-Amy Phillips anti-music drivel. For me, that would have automatically destroyed the writer's credibility, but the title "Jim O'Rourke: Fat, Soulless Fuck" already did that before I read the first sentence, especially since Jim O'Rourke is not a particularly fat man. I have no time for childish, fatphobic, bitter former music students, and I'm very irritated that I just wasted my time reading that article.

I think posts like Matthew's are crucial to the ultimate dismantling of the ignorant-lad-thug mentality that's responsible for so much bad music writing right now. That article was nothing more than a punchline, some invective, and a flaunting of one's credentials without any real demonstration of them. And I'm glad Matthew's calling bullshit.

Jody Beth Rosen, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:55 (twenty-three years ago)

That article actually had some merit I thought, buried in the bullshit. About him trend-hopping and trying too hard, I think. Though he's done a good job with SY he rilly did bring the curse to stereolab.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 22 August 2002 02:39 (twenty-three years ago)

a-f'in-hem, what happened to the blogs, people? "they imploded!"

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 05:50 (twenty-three years ago)

What is "FMBB"?

Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 22 August 2002 06:01 (twenty-three years ago)

That Pure Rock Fury blog is incredible. I now understand Sterl's hand grenade.

bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 August 2002 07:43 (twenty-three years ago)

FMBB = Fake Matador Bulletin Board.

Jody Beth Rosen, Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:13 (twenty-three years ago)

That article actually had some merit I thought, buried in the bullshit. About him trend-hopping and trying too hard, I think. Though he's done a good job with SY he rilly did bring the curse to stereolab

Yeah, but the writer didn't say why or how these bands were cursed for working with O'Rourke, and if you're gonna attack a musician/producer and wave your music degree in his face, you'd better be prepared to at least describe what you mean instead of just tossing around insults. I appreciate the guy's honesty, but it's not enough to carry any kind of critical theory.

Jody Beth Rosen, Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:19 (twenty-three years ago)

my favorite is mine: http://smotethybrother.blogspot.com
But I'm an ego-maniac.

John S., Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:42 (twenty-three years ago)

He hates me, too! Finally me and jess have common ground once again

Yeah, but the really pertinent question is: does he hate ME? I mean, am I not fucking good enough or what?

Michael Daddino, Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I like nearly all the ones listed here so far, I just wish I had more time to read them! I only get 5 minutes here and there these days, so I don't get to give lovely blogs like Church of Me as much attention as they probably deserve.

As for the FMBB boys...aren't most of them bitter because Pizza Hut didn't think they had the social skills to become busboys?

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I like nearly all the ones listed here so far

out with it, nicole.

apparently p.r.f. guy, now unsurprisingly, is a crony of my old pal (and sometimes ilx poster...when someone needs to know precisely what type of vinyl a stooges reissue was pressed on and other burning issues) dr. funk, who has apparently just figured out that i'm a guy (which doesn't exactly win him the stoker award for solved mysteries 2002.) all i can say for the fmbb is that as bad as ilx may get, it will never be that.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't mean anything by it, honest! I just meant there was a couple I hadn't read.

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:10 (twenty-three years ago)

You were probably their lust object for months now, jess. You had to shatter that dream for the little guys, didn't you?

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:11 (twenty-three years ago)

dirt...won't come off...can't get clean...so...dirty...

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:12 (twenty-three years ago)

"Mmm, wonder what Jess-ica looks like naked? Her blog gets me so hot, even though she likes wussy shit and not the entire touch and go catalog..."

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:21 (twenty-three years ago)

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!

(although in fairness, if it was anything, it would have been some sort of dom/sub thing where they could have called me a hack and smacked me with a riding crop.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Probably...but I didn't want to go there.

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:28 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm really shocked we haven't rated a fmbb thread yet!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Perpetua's take on that silly Jim O'Rourke article was right-on, however his blahg is severely undermined by his usual blather. My favorite was his "If I was one of those severely ill kids, I'd get the Make-A-Wish Foundation to get Bob Pollard, Steve Malkmus, the RZA and Neptunes to record together."

As for the FMBB, it does have its faults, but it's not nearly as bad as some here would suggest.

hstencil, Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:13 (twenty-three years ago)

1. is fmbb an indie board then? can i see it?

2. who are these ilm/ft hatas? i am confused. is it something to do with the indie guilt thread?

3. jess, do you and josh have like a fanclub of special hatas, i saw this site the other day, and it seemed to be entirely composed of stuff about you! it was a bit odd, what is that about?

4. how do you know if you have these people? do i have any? is it common? do you have to be american?

gareth (gareth), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:14 (twenty-three years ago)

gareth, what is this site yr talking about??

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:23 (twenty-three years ago)

hm. the jess/nate thing was *just* on the verge of touching the crux of the issue (see: 'solipsistic' form of music criticism/writing = not just secretly, but PRIMARILY abt. peer relations and *shudder* acceptance)

don't think its not obvious to many that there are many circles and subsets that have long been drawn and established within the ile massive. i admire nate's attempt to turn his (or anyone else's) blogging into a weirdly benevolent act ("you may disagree with me, but what *if* i turn you onto yr new fav. band?") but in the end, its just a smokescreen for the truth: we're *all* strangely bruised, narciscistic fuckwads who've chosen to pitch our tents in this camp because we feel music is what we know, or what we want to most know, or worse yet - the thing we feel most comfortable brandishing.

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:24 (twenty-three years ago)

mark, that's a pretty banal take.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

jess, does that make it any less accurate?

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

gareth, i think it crops up because a. josh and i are american, yes. and b. we like and/or talk about some of the same music "these people" do, and they dislike it when we start to get all analytical about music, because, you know, you should just sit back and feel it, man. why you gotta ruin everything? the best they can typically do criticism-wise is that we're "hack music writers". i would suspect you don't have any hataz, because a. yr british and b. you talk about rave music, and ravers, unlike spoiled indie kids, don't typical start blogs to piss all over other ravers. (of course, i haven't done any kind of study here.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:31 (twenty-three years ago)

mark, yes it does because it undermines the notion that any of "us" who range from total hobbyists to "published" writers have started blogs for reasons other than cock-showing contests. which is total bullshit. when i started mine, way back when, it was at least three months before i had been posting to ilx, i linked no one and told no one about it. (most of those posts were deleted before anyone from ilx saw it.) i don't even remember how it was "outed" in the nylpm arena, but it ended up being the worst thing that could have happened to my writing (as it ended up being what caused me to close up shop the first time.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:33 (twenty-three years ago)

jess, the fact that you showed yr blog to noone before you were 'outed' doesn't really serve yr point at all. it could mean many things.

otoh, i think the fact that your writing deterioriated once you became aware that others were reading says loads.

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:42 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm glad.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:46 (twenty-three years ago)

one of the actually and so-far-unaddressed weird things, though, is the unquestioning of this established close relationship between rock-as-a-thing (assumed agreed defn haha) and writing AT ALL: jess and josh are merely being hated for delivering the wrong MODE of rockwriting (disclaimer: reader-judgment not writer-judgement), but there is genuinely no equivalent significant discernible communal groundswell of hostility in eg jazz writing, soul-writing, polka-writing, string quartet writing, technowriting...

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:48 (twenty-three years ago)

i am completely incapable of writing a diary just for myself: i need readers, millions and millions of lovely readers, or anyway a handful

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

haha also i need millions and millions of lovely proof editors *sigh*

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:51 (twenty-three years ago)

(which is my way of saying [mark p]: you avoided responding to the sweeping [and wrong] generalities i pointed out in the first few lines of my post, and i could really care less about the amateur-hour psyche profiling.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:51 (twenty-three years ago)

forgive the 'amateur hour psyche profiling' (in which you somehow feel specially implicated?), but what other conclusions are we led to when you're CONSTANTLY telling us how much you don't care (no, REALLY) abt this, that or the other?

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:55 (twenty-three years ago)

the wrong MODE of rockwriting (disclaimer: reader-judgment not writer-judgement)

mark s, please elaborate. i'm not sure who's hating on anyone right now.

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:57 (twenty-three years ago)

It's pretty silly to judge FMBB by one or two people, as if they are representive of the everyone there. Like hstencil said, it has its flaws, like any virtual Ghostinternetland community, the ILM and the PRL included. Certainly I dont judge the ILM by you, jess, as if you speak for everyone and are the ILM incarnate. I merely consider you someone who is part it, and not the whole itself. As for your blog, never read it so I have no comment.

jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:58 (twenty-three years ago)

hah mark (s), if it was my place, i'd just post that thing frank wrote for the christgau book, because i think it pretty well explains this rockwrite/everythingelsewrite divide.

hah, and you get it too, cf. doomie.

actually, these guys remind me a lot of doomie, in their way. get out and there feel it, man! except they never acknowledge the irony of posting these things to internet message boards or blogs.

mark p, i feel "specially implicated" because of: "otoh, i think the fact that your writing deterioriated once you became aware that others were reading says loads"! if all that you've gotten from this thread is that i "don't care", then you haven't been reading very hard.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:58 (twenty-three years ago)

jack, that's pretty rich, considering how many of the fmbb related people were introduced to ilm.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Who is "they" again, exactly?

hstencil, Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:01 (twenty-three years ago)

that "how" should be read as "how they were introduced", not "how many" were introduced, numbers-wise.

hstencil, two words: indie guilt.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

(speaking of not reading v. hard)

i never once said you didn't care! in fact, i think you do, deeply, abt lots of things. which is precisely why yr constant protestations (or couchings, hedgings, criticisms, whatever) to the opposite whiff (to me) of red herring.

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Those two words mean diddley-squat to me. What's your point?

hstencil, Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:05 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm not going to be arsed to dig up the link to that stupid indie guilt thread. do yr own detective work.

mark, the other implication you're supposed to reach is that perhaps i'm a stable enough person to really not care what people who write other blogs think about me! (it's not as crazy as one might think!) it's not true, because a. i do like the odd compliment here and there (who doesn't) and b. i'm a bit like a rubbernecker when it comes to the haters. my writing never "deteriorated" when i became "aware" of my audience. it deteriorated (and that's a pretty loaded word) when i realized i had shifted focus in my writing towards an audience. it needed a break - an indefinite and possible permanent one - because i needed to rethink what it was i was trying to accomplish with it. mission accomplished (for the most part.) i do care, when someone is discussing something i've actually written or said. i don't care when someone is trying to hang a psychological dressing gown on me that doesn't fit, although it happens to fit their presupposed notion of why "we" do what we do.

mark (s) is right though: if i didn't want this stuff to be read by some people i wouldn't post it. i have plenty of notebooks, scratch paper, napkins, the palms of my hands, scribbled with ideas that no one will ever read because no one ever needs to read them. i continue to post in a public forum because i like the people i've met through ilx (well, some of them), and because i like the back and forth i get from them. i felt comfortable stopping writing for a while because the dialogue between us was enough. now that's deteriorated somewhat, i wanted to prod it again. so maybe, in some oblique way, i do fit yr profile. but at no point was i attempted to invent some "smokescreen for the 'truth'".

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:18 (twenty-three years ago)

So who is more lazy, me or you?

hstencil, Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:21 (twenty-three years ago)

haha what is this, a playground?

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh come off it, like that was serious.

I'm working on a slow dial-up connection, so I can't use the search functionality here.

hstencil, Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:28 (twenty-three years ago)

why must all blogs always be so serious?

sometimes they are ways to practice writing daily, and also notes to oneself to check on later

often, an audience is accidental

yuriko, Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:29 (twenty-three years ago)

god this thread is just more proof that ben brown and i were right about blogs back in 1999. ONLY NOW IT IS WORSE -- there are more circles to jerk around, thanks in part to the barrier to entry being even lower. 'you don't even have to pick your knuckles up off the floor to update!' gah

maura (maura), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:33 (twenty-three years ago)

alright, alright, while my next pot brews, presenting old-ilm's nadir: indie guilt!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:36 (twenty-three years ago)

didn't you have a blog maura?

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:47 (twenty-three years ago)

perhaps a poor example to post to prove your point as it makes the ILM look just as ridiculous as it is supposed to make the FMBB look. moreover, it just shows that you are judging the whole by a few. besides, is this really the thread for your FMBB vendetta? I thought it was supposed to be about the best blogs of 2002 -- not why the FMBB is stuck in your craw. If the FMBB is so bad, why sink to the level you imagine they are at?

jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:48 (twenty-three years ago)

"no, I certainly did not!!!!!!"

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

yuriko speaks the truth

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:53 (twenty-three years ago)

why must all blogs always be so serious?

Serious is the new fun, history programming is the new rock & roll, white is the new black, and red is not a color.

Michael Daddino, Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:02 (twenty-three years ago)

i have a personal website.

there's a difference.

maura (maura), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

mine is also a personal website. i have never used the b word

gareth (gareth), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

i can't imagine why we might have acted ridiculous on the indie guilt thread, can you? after all, such a well-reasoned question deserved more than we gave it. but then i thought, fuck it, why bother thinking about it when i can just feel it. (hah, i did call it ilm's nadir, didn't i?) haha, and jack, i dont have an "fmbb vendetta" (prior to 'indie guilt' i'm not even sure i knew it existed), but to "sink to the level i imagine them at"...well, i haven't resorted to name-calling, personal attacks, "clever" sexism/racism/homophobia (well, not yet anyway.)

(yes, i'm perfectly aware i'm stereotyping here, mistaking "one for the whole", whatever. but stereotypes exist for reasons, even wrong or misguided ones. i've yet to be proven wrong, and from the reactions of many people on this thread, i'm not alone. for people who like to stir up so much shit, they sure do get affronted when people "pick on them" don't "they"...)

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

and gareth and maura are wusses.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

hey fuck you jess i'm trying to get some HOT BLOG COCK here by playing hard to get!

maura (maura), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

best nu-ilm thread evah!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Books > magazines > websites > blogs?... haha I have a personal website too, then.

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

One notch up the hierarchy, now get me some paper and a pen.

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

please david: music videos > video games > text messaging > IM > websites > magazines > blogs > books > conversation.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:42 (twenty-three years ago)

1471 = blog not blog

Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

blogs are lower than text messages for sure.

maura (maura), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

here's one for amateur psyche hour: why is it that i always post more to ilm when my girlfriend goes on trips & i'm depressed'n'drinkin more?

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Jess I didn't know you were a lesbian.

Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:49 (twenty-three years ago)

for "more fun with cheap irony", re-check that pure rock fury link above. too cute!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

jess - your hierarchy rocks! obv, I was pissing at the rockist hierarchy, trying to kick it in the teeth.

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

except f'n text msgs which are rub

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

But surely that's why 'he' moved to Olympia.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

txt messages are cool, man. but you mustn't do that abbreviated textspeak. proper prose, all lower case. the only word that can be abbreviated is 'text', which must be written as txt. but then, this goes for this word all the time, it must always be written as txt.

gareth (gareth), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

naturally i moved to olympia to smash the patriarchy and rockist hierarchies of media delivery!!! to the barricades!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:59 (twenty-three years ago)

haha re: "proper prose, lower case all the time", I don't have a mobile phone so I don't use them but I do abhor them.

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:03 (twenty-three years ago)

i do find it mystifying beyond all measure that the most common criticism of ilm - after that we ruin music by thinking about too much - is that we "hate thinking". it just smacks of pure mentalism to me, tantamount to not even reading the boards. of course, the alternative seems to abhor thinking even more, but hey, maybe i'm just confused on what constitutes "thinking" these days?

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I try to go by a balance of thoughtful analysis and visceral, emotional response -- just going by one or the other seems pretty inadequate for me. It doesn't always show in my writing, but then I still think I have a ways to go. I never really saw any sort of over-reliance OR hatred of thinking here. Well, except when someone posts "DUD they're bollocks" and nothing else. (Er that example would refer to hatred of thinking)
Also, have I officially apologized for that "fucking despise you" bit yet?

Nate Patrin, Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:14 (twenty-three years ago)

what does constitute "thinking" or "good thinking", jess? (haha saw yr stab at me [else just me ego on over-drive] on the 'What Critics don't need to be good writers?' thread - jess: you can be a good stylist without being a good writer...)

maybe not directed at me, but it made me think of me.

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:15 (twenty-three years ago)

obv not saying im a good writer BUT saying more a 'writer' than a 'thinker'.

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

hah, i wasn't including you in that nate. yr one of us whether you like it or not.

and yeah, i think you did. but i forgive you anyway, snookums.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

hah, david, you've gotta stop thinking i'm out to get you or something. i like you and yr writing. and no, that wasn't directed at you at all.

i may have to revise my statement above a little, but my basic line is: good writing is thinking...there's no such thing as "good thinking" (well, there is, but you know what i mean)...but a good piece of writing will involve some sort of thought motion on the part of the writer, whether it's asking questions or answering them or both or neither. yeah, it's kind of impossible to write without thinking, but it's certainly easier to write on auto-pilot of description, "this is what i did today" (lists are guilty signs, and i'm certainly guilty myself.) in the best writing, i think, that thought-motion becomes almost transparent within the writing itself; it's intrinsic to the way the writer works and acts and lives. the problem with blogs, i guess, is not that the academy has deemed the street irrelevant (which has long been the complaint against music writing, or at least "rock writing", which isnt what i think i do anyway), but that the street has won, declaring the academy irrelevant at the expense of exploring the most fertile ground: where the two intersect and become interlocked, untanglable.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm almost sorry I threw the hand grenade now. I feel mean spirited and up for a fite, but then pissed when it happens because its invariably petty. + there are good blogs, Maura, just not most -- as with most things.

I think I'm angry because I can't find new music I like because R&B is dying slowly and only Tweet rilly gets what should be saved from the 70s and the best music writing I've seen lately has been capule reviews in the issue of Stuff which my girlfriend bought me for the picture on the cover -- and they're so stupid it hurts my head to read them which I guess is sort of the point. And pre-Nirvana Indie is seeming more like a paradise lost especially Lou Barlow on "Gimmie Indie Rock" where he freaks out at the end and takes it up a notch.

Also I like Nate and don't want him to be the target of this slagging match and also I haven't written much lately and feel like I have neither anything to recommend or to say except that everything should fuck off and die and especially the FMBBers who remind me of the tall dudes with "rock" hair and nasty attitudes at a Palace show I went to.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:26 (twenty-three years ago)

the tall dudes with "rock" hair and
nasty attitudes

I'm not that bad, am I?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:27 (twenty-three years ago)

sterl: hug?

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

best post ever alert! mark s' ilx got me back into music post beaten alert!

jess re: jess hates david, i guess I just use it to try and bite my own ankles, guess I respect yr grumpyness ie see it as cynicality borne from livin' and thinkin (also, why I'm scared of sterling, oh and he called me shallow once, haha)... it's my own device, ok I did believe it had some tincture of truth but if I didnt then the ankle biter would have no teeth...

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

best post ever = sterl's obv, i don't think any other post on ilx, other than mark's one has made me 'feel' anything... but, i won't gush, keep to the issue at hand: Best New Blogs 2002? hahahahahahahaha

david h (david h), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:33 (twenty-three years ago)

also, sterl, i know its hard on ilm lately to know whether or not i'm being serious (btw: i mean everything i said on this thread), but you really should start writing again, even if just to say everything should fuck off and die.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:33 (twenty-three years ago)

david, there is nothing wrong with that post except it should read: see it as cynicality borne from livin' and drinkin.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:35 (twenty-three years ago)

i agree with sterl on everything he said, including the part about there being good blogs out there and especially the part about feeling like everything should fuck off and die. my alienation quotient has gone way up in the past 3 months.

maura (maura), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:50 (twenty-three years ago)

it's new york.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

It's the lack of HOT BLOG COCK. In all instances.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:54 (twenty-three years ago)

R&B is dying slowly


Soul Train officials posted an unsigned reaction on the show's Web site that expressed outrage "over the fact that a people, whose ancestry suffered 400 years of slavery, can be herded so easily into a virtually bottomless mud hole and be taught to sling such mud therein."

Worst. PR. Ever.

bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:56 (twenty-three years ago)

what about new coke!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You missed a couple of commas in that Soul Train quote, BTW.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

christ, this thread is deja vu: wish i had my rum and coke with me and too much time. and of course AIM. then jess and i could go for the 1000 posts like on indie guilt thread. but alas i have no alcohol no time and no brain (d 'n' b sets completely erased my earDRUMs or uh my brain)

nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 22 August 2002 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

no, nath, apparently that type of chummy in-joking is verbotten from message boards lest it confuse and vex the newbies! unless of course it's among your own pals! there's nothing wrong with working at pizza hut because not everyone can be a snooty collegiate type! unless you want to mock someone who is lowly enough to work at pizza hut! because we're fucking shit up from the inside! coversation is a lie and impossible anyway! it's the crazy world through the looking glass on the other side of ilm where black is white and up is down and everything is it's opposite and nothing is true and everything is permitted!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 22:38 (twenty-three years ago)

or, er, uh, something.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 22:38 (twenty-three years ago)

but anyway, enough of this.

"a wise man once told me don't argue with fools/because people from a distance can't tell who is who."

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 22:41 (twenty-three years ago)


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