Blocking the Sound of Televisions with Luigi Nono — Rolling Classical Thread 2011

A new year, a new thread for marginal interests!

I broke my self imposed classical fast (maybe ill-advisedly) with a disc of early Stockhausen: Formel (1951), Schlagtrio (1952) Spiel (1952) and Punkte (1952-62) — the first is an (by Stockhausen's standards) easy work with clear thematic elements, the second is a plodding piece for piano and percussion, and the last two are shimmering orchestral works in the vein of Gruppen.

new year begins with palestrina's missa papae marcelli & di vittoria's requiem

always love thesse but think i prefer di vittoria? soaring ever upwards into the heavens and all that

I'm so picky about ren. composers, they're either enthralling (Tallis) or put me to sleep. too much glassy perfection, nothing to grab onto. I'll try the Victoria.

I find Renaissance composers that yes, its almost always good, hard to be critical and I don't want to suspend those faculties.

My Christmas presents included:

This Schoenberg recording: http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.557533
The third string quartet is one of my all-time favourite pieces and this recording is superb. The other pieces sound good so far but I haven't really listened closely yet. Schulte is a remarkable musician though. (If you don't know the third, do check it out! The first movement is especially stunning: Loose application of 12-note procedures are used to generate riff-like ostinato patterns.

Also this, which I haven't listened to yet but am looking forward to: http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.570781

"Loose application ... is used to generate ...)

"

I like the look of that cd, Sund4r. I love Schoenberg's string quartets, they're pretty much a musical ideal for me, from the expressionism of the 1st to the density of the 4th. I mainly listen to the La Salle qt's recordings atm. I have the naxos Craft recording of the Concerto for String qt/the book of the hanging gardens etc.

On Renaissance composers, Byrd is my fix atm. I'm working through the complete edition on ASV.

I usually just lurk on these threads, but hi y'all.

I found a Deutsche Grammophone LP of "Don Giovanni" the other day in the thrift store and really enjoyed listening to it. I also got an LP of Debussy on solo piano that didn't click with me at all, guess I prefer his orchestral works.

Bought an album with Sir Arnold Bax's Tintagel on it. Great piece. Would like to hear some more of his symphonic poems.

He reminds me at times of middle period Malipiero orchestral music (which I'd mentioned I really like on last year's thread). Also got a recording of his second symphony and the middle movement is a good example. Something about the harmonic language, but also texturally and in the wistful, rhapsodic writing.

I really liked Bax's 6th when I heard it. From what I could tell his touchstones seem to be Sibelius, Scriabin and Debussy and a sort of Germanic seriousness. It doesn't sound British at all (in a good way).

I usually just lurk on these threads, but hi y'all.

I found a Deutsche Grammophone LP of "Don Giovanni" the other day in the thrift store and really enjoyed listening to it. I also got an LP of Debussy on solo piano that didn't click with me at all, guess I prefer his orchestral works.

― sleeve, Sunday, 2 January 2011 16:39 (Yesterday) Bookmark

who was the pianist? no need to lurk! nice to get some traffic itt....obviously classical isn't like rolling swag or w/e so the expectations of the discourse are a lil different

I'm so picky about ren. composers, they're either enthralling (Tallis) or put me to sleep. too much glassy perfection, nothing to grab onto. I'll try the Victoria.

― =(^ • ‿‿ • ^)= (corey), Sunday, 2 January 2011 00:38 (Yesterday)

yeah i can what you mean by this, but glassy perfection is very much the appeal of these composers, tho i'd think victoria is quite an idiosyncratic figure and not as obviously amenable to a sort of proto-heroin house droney bliss as some others

tallis i must investigate more

can /see/

xp to nakhchivan

it's a guy named Claudio Arrau, Philips european pressing, doing Preludes. I got it b/c it was (like most classical vinyl I find in thrift stores) totally pristine minty clean (plus it was a dollar). But something about the sparse, monochromatic tone overall just rubbed me the wrong way.

anyone wanna recommend a fuller-sounding Debussey record? I really prefer older vinyl cuz it is cheap.

Maybe this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj79cdF1g1Y

arrau was pretty famous! i think i have heard his debussy but can't remember, i like pollini a lot in the preludes, aimard hasn't recorded a lot iirc but he's good

i'd guess any old debussy vinyl would be worth hearing, if u can find a recording of his profane oratario 'the marytyrdom of st sebastian' then that's my fav, but the standards la mer and nocturnes are probably on a million old lps and both are awes

jeux is an incredible piece of music too

cool, thanks to both of you.

Can anyone recommend something along the lines of Ives' Unanswered Question or Copland's Piano Concerto?

I got the Cantica Symphonia CD of Busnois' L'homme arme masses and was kind of disappointed. The instrumentation is extremely effective at spotlighting the use of the l'homme arme theme but as with all of their recordings the performances err on the side of mushy and slow. It would be great to hear punchier, more assertive recordings with the same backing band.

MaresNest: if you like Ives you should hear his two orchestral sets if you haven't heard them already. The first is the more famous but the second is probably my favorite. I have this set of all the symphonies and orchestral sets. The fourth symphony is a mindblowing piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKJw74JWYwg

Copland's piano concerto is one of his earliest works and where his jazz and Stravinsky influences show the most. Try Stravinsky's Ebony Concerto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1udS3o5tVu4&feature=related

last night before bed I listened to Bartók's 4th and 6th quartets — so amazing

Awesome Corey, thanks!

never quite got into ives cuz i thought i'd really love him, but the unanswered question is inarguably great

bartok's later quartets are sublime

I really liked Bax's 6th when I heard it. From what I could tell his touchstones seem to be Sibelius, Scriabin and Debussy and a sort of Germanic seriousness. It doesn't sound British at all (in a good way).

― =(^ • ‿‿ • ^)= (corey), Sunday, January 2, 2011 7:04 PM (Yesterday)

You know, I've got to add, Tintagel sounds to me to be really Mendelssohnian in scope, making me think of a piece like The Hebrides Overture.

I'll track it down this week. Thanks!

They are pretty far apart, historically. Something of the spirit of the piece made me think of Mendelssohn, though.

Lately I've been feeling burned out on post-1950 serialist/post-serialist composers. The Bartók quartets I listened to the other day were just hitting that sweet spot in a way they never have before (I run hot and cold on Bartók generally). I think I'm going to dive back into my 1900-1950 comfort zone again for awhile.

feel like maybe I should pay less attention to the idea of being somehow obligated to listen to certain things but I dunno I have an urge to "learn all that is learnable"

Getting into the Danish SQ's recordings of the Hindemith quartets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEGxj10vWm0&feature=related

which recording, corey? i only know the takacs.

Do you mean the Bartók? If so, yep, Takacs. I have the Arditti's doing the 4th but haven't listened yet.

Listened to two Schoenberg pieces tonight: the Wind Quintet and the String Trio — both relatively late pieces, the former dry and overlong, the latter being exactly what I love in Schoenberg: dramatic, angsty and complex.

it's weird, i've heard the bartok quartets (played by takacs) enough, and i even listened closely to them last year, but in the past year i've been listening to a lot of haydn (aeolian) and beethoven (takacs) quartets, and today bartok's 5th totally came together like never before for me. like i could hear what in them was supposed to appeal to listeners grounded in the tradition (and possibly appalled by what they might be hearing).

i like the arditti in that bartok quartet and wish they'd do more non-standard (for them) repertoire

liszt's dante symphony! this is a neglected masterpiece, srsly

whaaaaaaaa

lol rong thred

Out of curiosity, is anyone else irritated by the terms "New Music" or "Modern Classical" or "Contemporary Classical" or "Academic Music"? I've resorted to "contemporary composition" in my tags, but its such an ugly phrase.

Tags are important.

don't like any of those terms

your choice is the best of them tho!

"new music" is so vague, "academic" has connotations of sterility and dryness, and "modern" is used to describe music written 100 years ago! "contemporary composition" is the most accurate I think.

Based on the Polovtsian Dances, I've been wondering for a while how much I would like other Borodin. Am amazed now at how awesome his Symphony No. 2 is.

For those out of the loop like myself, Tod Machover (who did a PKD opera I respected way back) is doing a "transhumanist" opera with robotics from the MIT Media Lab, to open March 18.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdEaACQxzWU

Er, I guess that's just the North American premiere in Boston, in March.

My music listening veered off in a new (for me) direction late last year and has been focused heavily on J.S. Bach, especially the WTC and the Cello Suites. Since I previously gave most of my attention to contemporary composition -- to use the term I, too, favor -- I'm not used to having a choice of numerous recordings of the same music by different interpreters. If you want to hear Mario Davidovsky's brilliant 5th string quartet ("Dank an Opus 132") from 1998, you get the one available recording (by the Mendelssohn quartet, on BIS). It's almost like pop music that way, although there may be a second recording of the Davidovsky someday, and some of Carter's best-known works exist in perhaps half a dozen different recordings.

In contrast, if you were willing to scour ebay for the out-of-print ones, you could assemble 130 or more different recordings of the Bach Cello Suites -- and several dozen more if your interest extends to transcriptions for instruments other than cello. That's many more than I want (or could afford), but I have enjoyed working my way through several sets and hearing short clips from many others. Just something new for me -- even though I've known and loved these pieces forever and played bits of them as a student.

i prefer the vln partitas and sonatas to the cello suites, which i'd guess would be a minority opinion

for the wtc i like schiff & (with apols to baroque traditionalists) barenboim

I love the vn partitas & sonatas but not quite as much as the vc suites. The violin is pitched too high to include a real bass register, so Bach is forever negotiating between an unusually high bass and an implied/absent one. It's instructive to compare the versions with piano accompaniment that Robert Schumann created for both sets -- the violin pieces are very much normalized by this treatment (losing something in the process, no doubt), whereas the piano accompaniment to the third Cello Suite -- the only one I've tracked down -- has barely any effect, it just feels redundant except fr the very occasional harmonic anachronism.

vn S&P: Milstein (old-school); Holloway, Matthews (HIP)
vc suites: Suren Bagratuni, Fournier, Sebastian Klinger, Gavriel Lipkind, Schiff (old-school, new-school); Bruno Cocset, Sergei Istomin, Jaap ter Linden 2006, Wieland Kuijken (HIP)
WTC: Fellner, Korolev, Koroliov (piano); Hantaï, Suzuki, Watchorn (hpscd)

Casals is undeniable in the cello suites, but the audio quality of those old recordings is an obstacle for me. I like Schiff in the WTC, but in other Bach and other repertoire I find his articulation overly fussy and that contaminates my opinion of his WTC (where the problem hardly exists).

hey, paul, i never did hear that new recording of feldman's 'trio' you mentioned in last year's thread, but i did hear an old one, and really enjoyed it—thanks for the recommendation.

nathan milstein's last recording of the partitas & sonatas is my favourite too

i suppose some people will find an unaccompanied violin grating for any length of time, but i had no idea schumann wrote accompaniments! i still think that says more about the tyranny of romantic prettification than any inherent lack in the original, or in the violin itself which in the right hands compensates for its restricted register by its directness of articulation

how do you view liszt? this year is his bicentennial and i will probably be going to a fair few piano recitals and generally proselytizing, for he remains one of my very favourite composers

xp Oh good, glad you liked it. Feldman's up there with Carter in the multiple-recordings sweepstakes (7 versions of Triadic Memories if I'm not mistaken).

@nakhchivan

Yes I agree the Schumann accompaniments are mostly a historical curiosity, and the original S&P are perfext the way they are and need no help from Schumann. The lack of a bass register is just something I've been pondering lately. I don't actually find the violin's tone grating (at least: not in the hands of a Milstein or Ingrid Matthews) although I know some folks do. Actually if I sit too close it sot of gets to me -- it's so LOUD from the performers POV!

Liszt? Maddeningly inconsistent. I like him best in full-on circus mode (Hungarian Rhapsodies, Transcendental & Paganini Etudes) and in the few (? is that unfair) more serious works where doesn't drop the ball (Piano Sonata and first Concerto, probably some of the symphonic poems). I should hear/re-hear more, and I guess the bicentennial year will make that easy.

perfext -> perfect
sot of -> sort of
performers -> performer's

getting sleepy

Give me a Liszt listening list and I will get on it...

think i may do some sort of liszt thread when i get into the obscure corners of his work again

to thosee you mention, i suppose i'd add les années de pelèrinage, the fantasy and fugue on b-a-c-h, the concerto pathétique, funerailles, ballade #1 and various late fragments like nuages gris and la lugubre gondola

there are so many little waltzes and trifles that i love tho, in that sort of saccharine manqué register that he perfected, snatches of piano hanging in the dead air of mitteleuropean palace corridors

http://i.imgur.com/BEVN5.jpg

highly recommended

Ooh, those are the wildly chromatic proto-Scriabin pieces, right? I need to hear that.

The Bonatta disc looks enticing but is OP and not available used through Amazon marketplace nor as an Amazon or iTunes download. But I might take a chance on this disc featuring pianist Alexander Djordjevic; it won a Liszt Society award last year and was well reviewed. The repertoire mostly overlaps with Bonatta.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jXmEn%2BeaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

just downloaded that bonatta recital from uhm unofficial channels, i'd never seen it before

considering a liszt biography but the only one commonly available seems to be the walker versh in three volumes! with liszt, everything is in abundance

really enjoying Murray Perahia's Aldeburgh "recital" (recorded under studio conditions) that includes a couple Liszt selections. I saw him play the Goldberg Variations live a few years back and his playing was stunning.

Listening to Szymanowski's symphonies No. 2 and 3 — both are the sort of wide-eyed intense early 20th C. soaring chromaticism like early Schoenberg, pre-boring Strauss or late Scriabin with florid orchestration. The 2nd is kind of a structural mess (guess that's the Strauss influence), but the 3rd is seriously special — the model here is definitely The Poem of Ecstasy with some hints of the Rite in its exoticism and rarified mystical atmosphere. Recommended.

The 3rd is indeed fantastique.

sort of wondering about the post-war canon, or even if such a thing should exist

is it still basically darmstadt & outliers, american serialists and cage et al, plus a few russians?

so supposing you had to do a list of (x) favourite predominantly post-1945 composers (so no stravinsky).....

boulez, nørgård, babbitt, ligeti, xenakis

pretty canonical but for nørgård who is p much the greatest living composer imo

love those strange scandie letters

so yeah i'd say something like

ligeti/xenakis/scelsi/berio/carter

if messiaen is included then somewhere in the middle tho his best work (vingt regards) was composed in '44

I've been listening to Kyle Gann's Nude Rolling Down an Escalator: Studies for Disklavier (which appeared in my life at random) and enjoying it more than I would have expected to enjoy his music.

The Nancarrow thing jumped out immediately, but it seems like he's throwing around all sorts of classical references which are almost all just whizzing right past me. Enjoyable though.

no love for Arvo Part itt? (xps)

played this today

http://www.vinylparadise.com/1classic/1wind/1fmtrax1.jpg

oops, kinda small - that's Mozart "Flute Concerti", Jean-Pierre Rampal w/Isaac Stern conducting.

I've tried with Pärt but I think he's kinda dull :\

I love Arbos, Fratres, and lots of Tabula Rasa and Miserere, even saw him introduce a premiere once!

digging this Langgaard, Music of the Spheres. good deep january stuff.

God, I love Sylvie Bodorová.

Hi guys what'd I miss?

Took an ILX break for half a year or so there. Lotsa good stuff itt already.

SLEEVE: Arrau's Debussy solo piano recordings are v much an acquired taste. In a few individual pieces he achieves something truly unique, but overall he is probably too heavy and plush velvet for this most mercurial body of work. (Arrau IMO is at his best in Liszt and late Beethoven). If you see any Debussy piano vinyl played by ***Ivan Moravec***, Paul Jacobs, Daniel Ericourt, Werner Haas, Charles Rosen or Walter Gieseking, you might respond much more strongly.

COREY: OTM re: Norgard. Damn he is good. He's in the top tier with Crumb and Saariaho for me now, of those who still draw breath.

NAKHCHIVAN: You sound like you know your Liszt, man. I too have spent an inordinate amt of time digging around the fringes of his oeuvre, looking for just one more version of Valse Oubliee No. 3, etc. That Bonatta CD of late works on fortepiano is very special. There was also an amazing Alfred Brendel LP of only late works, and the volume of Hyperion's series consisting only of late stuff is one of the highlights in that epic series. Also, read the 3 volume Walker bio! It's super absorbing, and because Liszt had a finger in EVERYTHING you get a whole panorama of 19c Europe through his prism. What I did was to read vol. 2 first, then 1, then 3. I recommend that procedure...

SZYMANOWSKI: his 3rd really is splendid isn't it? I think of it as the paragon of symphonic Decadence. The texts are all taken from Rumi IIRC. I can't help but wish Szymanowski had stayed mired in his Decadent period a little longer, even though the later folk-modernist stuff is also awes. Has anyone heard the recent Boulez CD with Szyman's 3rd on it? In my mind's ear he could render this piece ideally, but sometimes he does let me down...

nice to have u back, i got through a fortnight's ilx sabbatical and that's about my limit right now

Liszt had a finger in EVERYTHING you get a whole panorama of 19c Europe through his prism

this is one of things i love about liszt, who (without living an especially long time) somehow links the world of late haydn with that of early schoenberg and i why i will eventually get round the walker biography....

i downloaded lots of obscure liszt recordings years ago, and i seem to remember i had mp3s of that brendel lp....pollini is excellent in late liszt, hamelin surprisingly good at the sparer stuff too, but there aren't many liszt recordings that i dislike (not so fond of ciccolini, cziffra, kissin)

the valses oubliées are wonderful....there are a few muddy live recordings by richter that are worth hearing, though i like the howard waltz album (probably the only complete collection?)

Yeah-- I am obsessive about the four valses oubliees and the four Mephisto waltzes. There are actually two other CD's that pretty much duplicate Howard's program. Mikhail Lidsky on Denon unfortunately has the usual post-Richter Russian idea of slowing everything down to a crawl, which unfortunately ruins most of the works on the disc. The single-named turkish pianist Setrak, on Solstice, has plenty of energy but his fingers can't really keep up. So Howard is still the man for these.

I also eat up recordings of the operatic fantasies; sometimes it feels like these are his most significant and amazing works. It's basically like Coltrane doing My Favorite Things except on piano and with damn near every opera of the 19c as fodder. My favorite might be the Norma one...

I've been kind of obsessed with Henry Cowell's piano pieces as of late. What do you guys think of him?

never srsly investigated the operatic fantasies but i shall do now

how do you rate liszt within the canon?

cowell is great! tides of manaunaun especially, i had both his own recordings of the piano works (from the early sixties and not particularly good quality even for that vintage) and another more recent one by someone i can't rememer

I've only ever heard the one Smithsonian disc of him playing his own stuff. Was a while ago. It was cool to hear the origin of some of those inside-the-piano techniques. "The Banshee" sssssccccchhhhhwinnngggggggggg

More than almost any other Liszt you really gotta watch your pianists when buying the operatic fantasies. There are a LOT of terrible performances of them by pianists who'd "rather" be playing the Sonata.

Look for... let's see... Earl Wild... Arnaldo Cohen on Vol.1 of Naxos Complete Liszt series... Thibaudet's all-opera disc is good... avoid Leslie Howard on these, it's his blind spot. The later Naxos volumes of Liszt/Bellini and Liszt/Donizetti fantasies are very good, both by young pianists to watch. And oh yeah, on Philips there's a 2fer with some blah playing on it but including a whole LP worth of Arrau playing the SHIT out of some of the Verdi fantasies, and Zoltan Kocsis taking you to the cosmos in Liszt's way-out transcription of the PARSIFAL grail music.

good revive, I've got a Penderecki box (Utrenja, Warsaw/Markowski on Philips) to listen to and report back on. Also I am going to a record sale in about an hour and I bet there will be good classical records for a buck each.

Any piano LPs on the Connoisseur Society label, snatch em up. Or any Reader's Digest piano LPs produced by E. Alan Silver (Connoisseur was his label). And anything symphonic with the Czech Philharmonic-- their sound was ideal for vinyl.

wish I had seen that 3 hours ago! will keep in mind.

not much classical but I did get an LP on Incus called "Balance" featuring a buncha people I never heard of.

is it pretty quiet? I associate Radu Malfatti with really quiet improv.

yo Leoš Janáček

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVN5STjc4ng

Mind is Moving
Musical Perfomance
Saturady 12th February, 6.30-9pm

For this UK premiere taking place at The Nunnery Gallery, Michael Pisaro has designed a unique arrangement of his suite of eight works collectively entitled \\\\\\\'Mind is Moving\\\\\\\'.

Music by Michael Pisaro, performed by Jennifer Allum (violin), Dan Shilladay (viola), Rebecca Dixon (cello), Dominic Lash (double bass), Henri Växby (guitar), Jamie Coleman (trumpet), Tim Parkinson (voice).

Not feeling great otherwise I'd go to The Nunnery

Ferneyhough at the Barbican today, more exciting still is this concert on the 7th March.

So glad ELISON are over here.

Anyone familiar with the music of Jehan Alain? He's been described to me as an oddball French organist-composer whose music is exotic and modal, combined with the era in which he was working (died in 1940) the description hits pretty much all my points of interest.

Always interested in mechanics, Alain was a skilled motorcyclist and became a dispatch rider in the Eighth Motorised Armour Division of the French Army. On June 20, 1940, he was assigned to reconnoitre the German advance on the eastern side of Saumur, and encountered a group of German soldiers at Le Petit-Puy. Coming around a curve, and hearing the approaching tread of the Germans, he abandoned his motorcycle and engaged the enemy troops with his carbine, killing sixteen of them before being killed himself. He was posthumously awarded the Croix de Guerre for his bravery,[1] and according to Nicolas Slonimsky was buried, by the Germans, with full military honours.[2]

whoa

Karl Amadeus Hartmann - Symphony No. 3 (1949) — holy shit is this good

Today I fuck with Sir William Walton.

Symphony No. 1 is good — very Sibelian — I've been bored by pretty much everything else I've heard. What do you like?

As you say, Sym 1 is good-- a total knockout, IMO. I'm sort of trying to expand from there. DL'ed the Sony/BMG "Collected Works" 2CD which includes consensus classic recordings of Sym 1 and the concertos for violin, cello and viola. The vln cto recording is Heifetz/Walton/Philharmonia and impresses me a lot, but not sure yet if that's cuz of the work or the boggling performance.

I like the Henry V film score quite a bit; but then, I'm a lover of film scores so I would.

So far, nothing on the immediately-perceptible genius level of that First Symphony-- but we'll see.

The viola concerto seems to get the most praise after the 1st, but I wonder if that's due to violists wanting more repertoire :P

I always forget to mention Facade which is just totally sui generis.

Listening to Lucy Shelton's English-language recording of Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire right now. Should have gotten this long ago! Translation doesn't create the same problems in Sprechgesang as it sometimes does in lieder/grand operatic contexts. Also this is just simply a great performance of Pierrot Lunaire regardless of language.

How I wish Schoenberg could have hung out a little longer in this freewheeling period between the post-Strauss stuff and codified serialism. The Three Piano Pieces, Second String Quartet, Pierrot, Five Orchestral Pieces, what a run of magic.

I'll be seeing Lucy Shelton sing Thursday night-- Crumb's "Night Music I" (a longtime favorite of mine) and Ginastera's "Cantata para America Magica" for soprano and percussion ensemble (which I've never heard and have never even seen a recording of). Also on the program is Crumb's ritual chamber trio "Vox Balaenae". Pretty psyched as I've never seen any of Crumb's Lorca-based song cycles live (Night Music was one of his earliest) and the Ginastera sounds VERY interesting on paper.

So much awesome music in NYC lately...

Like 2 weeks ago-- Morton Feldman's "Rothko Chapel" coupled with Kurtag's "Messages of the Late Mrs. R.V. Troussova" at Alice Tully Hall. Both works benefit so much from being witnessed live, but ESPECIALLY the Kurtag; for one thing, I had NO IDEA that so many musicians were actually involved in that piece. There were like 17 musicians + conductor onstage, from CD listening I'd thought it was only a sextet or so.

That coupled with the sort of deranged village-band character of the music really made it seem like a musical town, the most jauntily miserable outpost in bumfuck Romania.

How I wish Schoenberg could have hung out a little longer in this freewheeling period between the post-Strauss stuff and codified serialism. The Three Piano Pieces, Second String Quartet, Pierrot, Five Orchestral Pieces, what a run of magic.

True - but then we might not have had the late masterpieces like the Piano Concerto or the String Trio!

Facade blew my mind in high school. Still haven't found a recording where I like BOTH readers though.

http://fuckyeahnouns.com/Arnold%20Schoenberg

How I wish Schoenberg could have hung out a little longer in this freewheeling period between the post-Strauss stuff and codified serialism. The Three Piano Pieces, Second String Quartet, Pierrot, Five Orchestral Pieces, what a run of magic.

Listening to Lucy Shelton's English-language recording of Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire right now. Should have gotten this long ago! Translation doesn't create the same problems in Sprechgesang as it sometimes does in lieder/grand operatic contexts. Also this is just simply a great performance of Pierrot Lunaire regardless of language.

Wow, I need to look for this.

It is available on eMusic if you are a member there. Label is the wonderful Bridge Records, run by the classical/avant guitarist David Starobin.

totes enraptured by the third of stravinsky's four etudes (the cantique)

rest of the album, w/ boulez & cso doing pulcinella and the symphony in 3 movements is typically impressive

Thanks so much for the recommendation, Jon. It's wonderful. I'm listening to that version of "Night" over and over.

"Emilie" is beautiful btw!

Just got done reading Jessica Duchen's excellent Erich Korngold biography. Eager to hear some of his pre-war music.

think imma go back to stravinsky

he was so great

you know the Wind Octet? might be my favorite non-orchestral Strav.

yes i've heard that

favourite non orchestral = three movements from petrushka, if that counts

Listening: Antheil - String Quartets

Pretty much what I expected — enjoyable if not really profound music. The first two are from the 20s and obviously under the shadow of Stravinsky — the harmonies are spicy and there are plenty of "eyebrows" and jerky metric changes. The third (and last) quartet is from the late 40s and in a much more conservative and American style and less interesting.

So, I love the baroque music I've heard (Vivaldi and Bach), and I am deeply in love w/ Bartok and Holst, also dig Wagner (at least his music) and Brahms - whom I guess represent my favorites from the "romantic" era of classical... I no longer wish to be a classical dilettante but would like to be exposed to a wider range of stuff. I took a music appreciation class and the smattering of composers I've mentioned is basically what I took away from it... TBH tho it was like a 100 level music class and while it supposedly went from plain chant to jazz the majority of was taken up by Mozart and Beethoven who, obviously have some great stuff but my point is the class didn't stray too far from the (well) beaten path.

So I will check out the stuff on this rolling thread and some of the other classical threads but I was told here would be an ok place to post a request for suggestions to broaden and deepen my knowledge and appreciation of classical/art music and composers.

Viceroy dog I am passing out now but I will lay down some thoughts for u tomorrow.

xp welcome :)

since you already like the more abstract non-classical electronic stuff maybe you would like some early tape/computer music? one of the big things for me was approaching classical music as "pure sound" — textures, colors — just like other music, but deeper and more varied

listen to this and tell me if it doesn't BLOW YOUR MIND

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WVVNXYTQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

^ only one electronic piece btw, and two gigantic concrete slabs of orchestral pieces and several pieces for smaller ensembles that are just totally confrontational and awesome

oh and Desérts for orch. and tape — I'm sleepy

I will check this out and I await JL's thoughts tomorrow! Thanks!

Viceroy, a kwik question first-- what stuff from Brahms and Bartok did you respond to most strongly? Bcuz I usually find it good to kind of branch out from early best impressions.

i told v to get the rite of spring and the berg violin concerto btw

listening to the first disc of the complete Scriabin piano music set (Lettberg) — early sonatas. just sumptuous.

Listened to this disc:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AhRigzFrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Martinů's Sextet is in his slightly heavier pre-WWII style and serves as a great counterpart to the Schulhoff. Both are exotic and dark works — the Schulhoff in particular reminds me of Bloch's early fiery pieces like the 1st SQ with its acidic harmony and great angst. Martinů's Three Madrigals for violin and viola is in his later post-WWII refracted tonal style and sounds like a joy to perform.

Elizabeth Maconchy - String Quartets 1-4

Refreshingly uncompromising works. Her model here seems to be Bartók and they have the same sort of vital energy and aggression without sounding monotonously dire, with lyrical folk-ish melodies shining through in little moments. I'd love to hear the later quartets — she wrote 13 in total spanning from 1932 to 1984. I'm hugely interested in composers born at the beginning of the 20th century whose style developed more or less independent of the prevalent modus of the post-war period.

http://jameserber.load.cd/blog/articles/view/236.html

^ can't wait

Hmmm I've never heard of either of those guys (though I know of pianist Powell as a Sorabji specialist). Off to the Fanfare database...

Neither had I. What are they like?

Haven't been posting much but I've been listening to quite a lot of stuff.

Mark André (student of Lachenmann) - "...auf..." II and III (for orch/orch w/ electronics, resp.) — both pieces from 2007: beautiful sonorities invigorated with a sense of drama.

Wolfgang Rihm - Jagden und Formen — a masterpiece. Rihm elegantly creates a synergistic fusion of all the major strands of composition in the latter half of the 20th century. I've loved everything I've heard by him so far and he's rapidly growing in importance for me.

Now listening to Olga Neuwirth Clinamen/Nodus; Construction in Space — infuses modern European "Hochschule" composition with the rhythmic vitality of American minimalism and the depth of texture of the French spectralists, while retaining a bit of puckish humor and a hint of pop music influence — without seeming contrived. I'm impressed.

Here is Emsley's wiki. I'd encourage anyone to track down Emsley's Flowforms CD.

On a general level both are your usual 'Blocking the Sounds of Televisions with Luigi Nono' type thing: demanding in the concert, for the people who paid, and on the players who perform (which you can see in their faces at times). At the time when they both got going (late 70s/early 80s) both of those guys were basically working off their enthusiasms for the likes of compositions such as Eonta, but also pieces with For Philip Guston type aesthetics, too.

They formed tiny ensembles that bought performances by really brilliant European and US composers that were not played here because this land sucked (and still does).

I only got to know Erber's music better recently through a tape I downloaded -- both are basically 'complex' but not in an obvious way. One piece could be intense and dense, another will be working off these clusters with a rather quieter release. Smart.

Basically, its a rare performance and hopefully I'll be able to say more then as I'll get to know more.

Thank you — Sounds right up my alley.

I used to quite like Jadgen und Formen back in the day but subsequently heard quite a lot of indifferent pieces by Rihm. Not really sure of its qualities anymore. Doesn't it have a fairly abrasive trumpet sound at the start? I'll have to revisit. xp

They formed tiny ensembles that bought performances by really brilliant European and US composers that were not played here because this land sucked (and still does).

this seems rather overdone, 'contemporary composition' is necessarily rather niche (unless it's trashy) but i'm not sure a country w/ the london sinfonietta, the arditti quartet, the huddlesfield contemp fest etc is so poorly provided for in this respect

what do you mean by "necessarily"?

cuz ppl who like brahms and mozart dont generally care for it

im reminded of richardo chailly describing one of his first concerts as conductor of the royal concertgebouw orchestra, when he did an entire programme of contemporary italian music, and most of the audience was comprised of the composers' families

xp - there are a lot of people that don't care for brahms and mozart though! I'm well aware that contemporary classical music has a niche audience, but I don't think it "necessarily" has to.

think it sort of does, in most of the world

though of course it would be nice if the wider classical audience took an interest

and yeah, i'd guess a fair proportion of the audience for such concerts in london comes from a generically ~avant~/wireish background rather than mnstrm classical

and yeah, i'd guess a fair proportion of the audience for such concerts in london comes from a generically ~avant~/wireish background rather than mnstrm classical

see, that's what i'm alluding to -- that there are other audiences that could/should be into it that aren't mainstream classical audiences. but this is getting into my day job/arts admin territory - a bit off-topic

ya it's still a niche thing, even if it is comprised of many subniches

i think the london sinfonietta collabs w/ various warp ppl were a big success a few years back

i remember going to an sfsound gig a few years ago where they were playing a Xenakis piece, and they had twice as many people as they'd expected -- and half the audience were noise scene and rock scene people.

i would rather it wouldn't be such a binary, like, I get tired of my friends who are into 20c avant-garde having such a hard time conceiving that, i dunno, 19c music might also be full of the kind of bold strokes and intense conceptions they go for.

and then you have guys like Branca and Chatham ...

Like it's weird to me that ppl who are v passionate about a VERY INTENSELY tonal idiom like rock are all of a sudden, when they explore classical, so over tonality that they can skip several very intense centuries altogether.

used 'intense' too many times sry

it is weird, isn't it?

it's almost like they have different criteria for "classical" music - like it fulfills a different aesthetic purpose than the rock music they listen to - as opposed to it all falling in the general category of music.

idk xenakis and sightings can be appreshed in similar terms by intense bros who seek intellectual intensity i'd have thought?

maybe jon could give us some examples? i was responding to his post. It made total sense that noise dudes are into xenakis.

I mean it's prob just the extra-musical corniness that has accrued to names like Beethoven, Schumann, Berlioz, etc makes it seem like that stuff is akin to Mantovani Orchestra or something.

this is kinda impressionistic but i'd still think most of the people who go to see the arditti quartet playing hosokawa and lachenmann are probably from a classical or 'classically literate' or sthing background, even if showpiece events attract a wider crowd

of course, xenakis isn't contemporary music.....

and that's one of the big issues in audience development and marketing -- is the venue an issue?

There's a lot of baggage to get past with Late Romantic and earlier composers, baggage loaded on by both highbrow (BEETHOVEN GOD OF MUSIC etc) and lowbrow (50 IMMORTAL MELODIES ON 12 LP'S) sources

it seems like for the last 30 years, the movie soundtrack has been the way to make pre-modern classical "okay"

the venue question-- it's pretty neat what Le Poisson Rouge has been doing here by putting on chamber concerts in an avant-rock space and kind of splitting it even handedly between things kids know they are supposed to check out becuase of The Wire and awesome things from the older tradition.

sara it's v interesting that you say that because film scores have ALSO, in the last few decades, been the way to make high modern and post-modern CM techniques "okay"

last seven or so decades....

well yeah, i mean it's pretty much the only context i can think of that doesn't follow "pop logic" - where music isn't focused on pop song form.

Like if you look at something like Christopher Young's score to the piece of shit movie Species, it's p much a tour de force of post-WWII avant-orchestral craziness. (IIRC). So film scores also bring radical musical gestures into the ears of ppl who are not nec fans of the avant-garde.

last seven or so decades....

― The Geirogeirgegege (nakhchivan), Monday, April 11, 2011 4:45 PM (2 minutes ago)

not really.

(I am def an advocate of film score as a frequently amazing genre, though it's in a tough spot these days)

70 yrs ago = 1941, yeah probably a bit early though Waxman had already done some pretty rad stuff, but Wagnerian-Straussian was def the name of the game in film music still.

By the 50s though you've got some pretty bold shit being composed against film. North, Herrmann hitting his stride...

ya i'd think u could find some p weird stuff from even earlier too

however in the 40s and 50s, classical music, as a genre, was not as "niche" as it has become in the past 30 years.

it's a pretty entrenched fit for disssonant strings to convey scary/tumultuous etc

not really, xp

uh, what?

Anyway I like the idea that film music is a zone where ppl can still grapple with late-romantic through post-modernist musical styles without having paramusical baggage getting in their way.

(There has never been any notable DNA share between high Classical and film score though-- there kind of can't be because of Classical's emphasis on argument and development and resolution-- the very purpose of film score militates against that)

I agree with Sara, CM was still mainstream fare CERTAINLY in the 40s and still in the 50s as well.

sort of feel 'difficult' music of whatever description, excepting the occasional infiltrations, will always have a fairly small audience

even on ilx, we avoid difficulty!

and that's related to all the surveys about the graying of the classical music audience

i'm reminded of a particularly lame bbc segment about popularizing classical music where they had some ppl playing reich-ish dreck in 'edgy' venues to alts

yuck

xpost to myself obviously the storylines of the movies themselves constitute "paramusical baggage"! Guess what I meant was without intrusive thoughts like "I am now listening to classical music/I am now listening to experimental music, what is expected of me etc etc"

xpost to Nakh but the folks at Le Poisson Rouge are actually putting on good/challenging music to alts!

I agree with Sara, CM was still mainstream fare CERTAINLY in the 40s and still in the 50s as well.

― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 00:58 (1 minute ago)

classical music still is mnstrm fare in london for instance

i'm not sure there were so many more people going to piano recitals back in the day, tho i'd be interested if someone has collated the stats

'reich-ish dreck in edgy venues to alts' would make a killer Mark E Smith lyric circa Room To Live

well sure -- though what constitutes "difficult" shifts with time and cultural context.

Oh yeah -- the pandering problem (re nakh's bbc anecdote) -- people in arts marketing are very navel-gazey.

xp oh no dude, there were SUPERSTAR pianists in them days!

Hmmm but it may be true that the big event for them was usually the concerto and not the solo recital...

Nakh - you haven't seen that Ken Russell movie? He's from your side of the pond.

this one:

http://www.recordsale.org/cdpix/r/rick_wakeman-lisztomania.jpg

IIRC I can count Nakh as a fellow Lisztian...

(from one of aero's piano poll threads)

i just wanna know if he's seen that movie though

didn't the cult of horowitz et al have something to do with the emergence of widely available recordings etc? it's almost like the huge aura around sports or movie stars from that time, like horowitz may seem THAT much bigger than pollini, but then elvis, monroe, babe ruth were probably all more thoroughly /iconic/ than their modern incarnations, even if their fields are no less popular today

ha, no i haven't seen that, though i've seen clips

ken russell seems like an awful bore

it's hilarious and OTT as you could imagine.

"liszt was the rock star of his day"
About 177 results (0.06 seconds)

lol

You'd think I'd have seen it given my thing for Liszt but I still haven't. I've seen a lot of Ken Russell I could take or leave but The Devils is one of my all time favorite films.

nakh see The Devils (if you can, it is in format limbo)

There was a recent screening in London IIRC.

Lisztomania is pretty manic and hilarious -- as opposed to Women in Love, which was kinda interminable, though Oliver Reed and Alan Bates nude wrestling scene had some aesthetic payoff.

Will watch anything with O Reed in it (latest exhibit: Burnt Offerings)

Russell made a whole series of fairly straight biopics abt composers none of which I've ever seen. Would particularly like to see the Delius one.

the enduring problem with classical music appreciation seems to be that it's foisted on bourgie kids as a trial and penance, such that mozart is likely to revive memories of dull practice hours, and kids are thoroughly burned out on 'classical music' long before they are able to grasp the complexity of much of the work they were forced to perform

The use of Lakme in "The Hunger" is probably one of my favorites, in terms of classical music used in film (as opposed to original scores)

xp otm — I actually think it was helpful instead of a hindrance that neither of my parents were musical. It made it seem more attractive because it seemed in a way "other".

this seems rather overdone, 'contemporary composition' is necessarily rather niche (unless it's trashy) but i'm not sure a country w/ the london sinfonietta, the arditti quartet, the huddlesfield contemp fest etc is so poorly provided for in this respect

Have to disagree. I'd say there are quite a lot of continental composers that haven't got a single/handful of performance(s) in this country yet who actually have written work that isn't straightforwardly complex, which doesn't care to interact with the warp crowd either, or could ever be in any soundtrack, etc. And if they get a handful is with tiny chamber ensembles that are able to pick up on it.

And there are a few performers that actually sacrifice playing more contemporary to try and make more connections: been to a couple of recitals by Ian Pace where he played Brahms and Helmut Lachenmann, but I think its much tougher to get that from anything above chamber music numbers because players are in one or other camps. When that kind of mix comes into a proms recital I don't often feel a connection is being attempted.

Imagine the tiny audience for that recital next month will comprise of people are barely aware of Wire-ish stuff. They all know each other and families will be involved, too.

I don't know what mainstream means, in this context -- that concert isn't going to be too well publicised and if it sold out at the RFH it won't turn a profit that they could live on. Everyone needs a grant/teacher's salary.

listening to Ferneyhough - String Quartets (Ardittis)

lately:

Gérard Pesson - Mes Béatitudes (Ens. Recherche)

Pieces dating from the 90s that seem to play upon memories of tonality and pseudo-quotation before lapsing into hisses, col legno bowing and potent silences. Nebenstück sounds like a chamber piece by Brahms with half the notes erased.

Last night at Lincoln Center I was fortunate enough to hear one of my very favorite pieces of post-war music in live performance: George Crumb's Music For A Summer Evening (Makrokosmos III) for two pianos and two percussionists. The closing movement literally brought me to tears. I'll never forget it.

(Also, during the ovation, turns out Crumb's in the audience. He looked pretty hale.)

Sounds great!

I've been listening to:

Carter - String Quartets 2, 3 and 4 (Pacifica)
Dallapiccola - Canti di Prigionia, Liriche Greche (Zender/EIC)
Xenakis - Piano Music (Takahashi)

Xenakis' Rebonds for solo percussionist was the opener on last nights program. KILLER, at least in this almost struttingly badass performance by Ayano Kataoka.

Cool. His percussion works seem to get more performances than anything else. I wonder how difficult they are the perform (compared to what must be the nightmare of performing Herma or Mikka, not to mention the orchestral works).

The massive percussion piece Persephassa has had 2 performances here in the last year! The one I was at, the one where we the audience were all floating in rowboats on the pond in Central Park with the percussion batteries arrayed at intervals around us, was my concert of 2010.

That was the first performance of the piece as it was meant to be played correct?

I think so. The more recent one was in the armory. I didn't go; ain't fuckin' with my memory of the lake one.

really enjoying this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046YHEQO

top notch performance with a mix of new and familiar selections, recording quality is less perfect (a few distorted high moments) but quite good. Skinner's Cardinall's Musick CDs are some of my favorites, especially their epic 13-volume Byrd series.

really enjoying Henze's Kammermusik and Versuch über Schweine (Essay on Pigs) at the moment. His music seems to have gone through the necessary postwar rite of subsuming the twelve tone system to arrive at a more personal harmony which, yet, doesn't make any attempt at illusory motivic "meaning" or accessibility. The vocal performance in Versuch is acrobatic.

What does "illusory motivic 'meaning' or accessibility" refer to? (Not being confrontational! Just curious.)

basically conflating musical logic with easy readability — which almost always is tantamount to little more than repeated phrases

Have been listening to a lot of Dallapiccola's chamber music and Bruckner this week.

Also Boulez's piano sonatas. No. 2 is a blazing masterpiece.

http://jameserber.load.cd/blog/articles/view/236.html

^ can't wait

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 10 April 2011 09:21 (1 month ago)

nearly here :-)

3x concerts in a near-freezing-by-9pm Unitarian chapel in Hampstead got a bit much.

- The first was solo piano by Emsley who is working at yet another way of framing silence. The main piece was basically some piano [gap of silence] more piano. x40 of these in about 45 minutes.
- The second was solo flute cycle Traces by Erber. This was the single highlight of the evening (and probably) best concert I'll attend this year. Furious set of rhythmic flurries and run ons, in later parts he works the lyricism in way I never heard of before. Almost absent but not quite, presence felt by pricking away at the eardrum. Must be recorded and heard by more people, although that will not capture the very physical nature of the performance (flutist was almost trying to get out of his body!)
- Third was mixed solo and duos w/one trio for piano/violin/flute. By this time it got a bit colder, and I had already two hours worth, so I was flagging a bit - the main thing though is both Erber and Emsley started working at a similar aesthetic but Emsley is a lot more interested in utlizing gaps in silence; Erber not so. In a mixed set it was difficult to get my ear around.

But I'm glad I stayed because I have found it difficult to reconcile Emsley's late music with the sound and fury of earlier days. However it totally clicked in that third concert, which enhanced the piano works in the first concert.

Have not heard a note of either composer. Contemporary British music is a large blindspot for me — I have only heard a few pieces by Ferneyhough (the string quartets) and only know Finnissy, Barrett, et al by name/reputation, so thanks for the tip!

(xp)

Interesting -- I only know a small number of works by each composer (an Emsley disc on Metier titled flowforms, and a piano piece by Erber on an Ian Pace recital disc). Your description of the recent Emsley pieces reminds me of music by Thomas DeLio.

corey - Quite a lot of discs by Finnissy, Barrett, Dillon. a few threads about on ilx that discuss some of this stuff.

Paul - love that disc on metier. For Erber, yes, that solo piano work is brill. Another (really good) piece by Erber is Strange Moments of Intimacy played by Kate Romano.

The notes did inform me that a recording of a solo cello piece, played by Frank Cox, is about to come out on Centaur Records.

I have a lot of their music, just haven't got around to listening to it yet :\

Just reading the wiki on DeLio and yes I can see why you'd think that - will check him out. xp

Listening to Messiaen's organ cycle La Nativité du Seigneur. I think this might be the best Messiaen I've heard so far.

Yeah I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't *adore* early Messiaen, Corey. :)

This right now is the meaning of life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm-OzGMc6IU

Right now for me it's the chaconne from Bach's 2nd solo vln partita.

also have been listening to Berio's Sinfonia and Nono's Il Canto sospeso a lot.

Yes, that Bach is amazing.

yeah, I could listen to that Brumel on repeat for hours and hours.

This week I've been dipping into Handel's Alcina. I'm new to baroque opera, but the idea of a dramatic work in a relative state of stasis with a limited palette appeals to me in the same way that Ozu films or Alain Robbe-Grillet does.

Right now, something completely different: Carter - SQs 1 and 5 (Pacifica).

Also have Das Rheinhold on loan from the library. It's time.

Alcina is fantastic. Is it really a "state of stasis" any more than a Mozart opera?

From what I've read about Baroque opera it became much more overtly dramatic and stürmisch after Gluck streamlined the recitative-aria form.

The only Mozart opera I know is Don Giovanni, and that seems a world away from Alcina.

Is Don Giovanni more dramatic? I'm not sure that the singspiels (Magic Flute and Abduction from the Seraglio) are.

I think there is something in what you say, but it's Handel we're talking about, so when I read "state of stasis" and "limited palette," I immediately think, "HOLD ON A MINUTE."

Ha, Handel is probably the most galant of the major baroque opera composers, you're right.

Maybe there's something to be said about the on-stage drama itself becoming prioritized more starting with Gluck? If that's so, I'd agree that there's a real charm to how baroque opera presents theater where the music is more of a priority.

Have no idea. All my exposure (with one or two exceptions) to opera thus far has been through recordings. I'm planning on working my way through Monteverdi, Lully, Rameau and Handel, then to Gluck, Mozart, Beethoven's Fidelio, Wagner, Mussorgsky, etc. Probably not in that order and with plenty of detours along the way.

Heard the Grant Park Orchestra do Schoenberg's Friede auf Erden and Mendelssohn's 2nd — was very enjoyable to watch the oldsters with their tables set up with wine and cheese squirm during the more dissonant parts of the Schoenberg.

The Mendelssohn symphony was unfamiliar to me. Pretty tedious. I kept thinking (or hoping) it was over when there was yet another movement.

Mendelssohn is one of my favorite composers, but I don't know that symphony either.

I am bad at judging music upon first hearing, so it's possible I might have underrated it — but atm it's low-priority

in other news, Liszt, Liszt, Liiiiszt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E7LXSFST_c

downloaded the two-disc hathut set of schleiermacher doing soviet avant garde piano music, need to listen to it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOfjOs_snNo

favorite Bach partitas? I usually go to Schiff out of habit but I really liked the Angela Hewitt version yesterday. And then there are the new Perahias to listen to.

only like hpschd in bach's keyb music

Ha. I hate Bach on the harpsichord (except as continuo obv). I can enjoy Scarlatti and early baroque composers eg Byrd on the harpsichord.

If anyone's interested, Havergal Brian's insane GothiC Symphony is on tonight at 7pm on radio 3. And ther's an intro to it on from 5:15 pm.

If you're wondring why you should be interested, read this

t is, in fact, the most extreme example of the perilous hybrid genre that Beethoven initiated with his Ninth Symphony. Composed over a period of seven or eight years (mainly at night, since Brian worked as a music copyist and journalist and at various odd jobs through the day), ‘The Gothic’ unites two long-contemplated schemes – a work on Goethe’s Faust and a setting of the Te Deum – in a symphonic vision of the Gothic Age (approximately 1150–1550) as a period of almost unlimited expansion of human knowledge, both secular and spiritual, glorious and terrible. The first three movements, for large orchestra, relate in a general way to Part 1 of Goethe’s Faust (Faust as the archetypal Gothic Age man, aspiring mystic and seeker after hidden knowledge).

But they are merely a prelude. The fourth, fifth and sixth movements encompass a gigantic, hour-long setting of the Te Deum, and here Brian requires four soloists, two large double choruses, four brass bands and an orchestra that outbulks the most extreme demands of Mahler, Richard Strauss and Schoenberg. Brian’s inspiration was the great Gothic cathedrals of Northern Europe, whose architecture (and the music that was sung in them) had transfixed his imagination since he first encountered Lichfield Cathedral as a child chorister. This Te Deum attempts a new, freely evolving conception of structure while making use of the widest possible range of stylistic resources. It spans a great arch from neo-medieval vocal polyphony to shattering brass outbursts of purely 20th-century barbarity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/analysis/129

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXjFZijp4Ms

Greatest thread ever.

Can anybody tell me where to start with Friedrich Cerha?

Norrington doing something interesting with Mahler 9 at the proms tonight..

I don't know much about Cerha other than he did the first completion of the third act of Berg's Lulu. I assume his music is fairly echt-modernist Darmstadt stuff.

How had I never heard the music of Almeida Prado before? The piano stuff is slaying me.

favorite Bach partitas? I usually go to Schiff out of habit but I really liked the Angela Hewitt version yesterday. And then there are the new Perahias to listen to.

Sergey Schepkin. He also has what is probably the finest modern piano Well-Tempered Clavier. You can find these used for cheap.

If anyone managed to record the Havergal Brian broadcast, I would love to know about it...

Piotr Moss [Rémanences, Harpe celtique, orchestre à cordes]

Loving this. Terrifying but also shockingly romantic. Dense stabs of strings + harp. Love how the only real moment of 'lightness' is a kind of creepy caricature czardas in the allegro mvmnt.

I am, at this moment, hearing Othmar Schoeck's Notturno for tenor and string quartet for the first time. If you love the mystical/haunted hyper-chromatic side of 20th century music you need to know this incredible piece.

I have his string quartets; haven't listened yet.

If anyone managed to record the Havergal Brian broadcast, I would love to know about it...

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 2 August 2011 15:20

http://5-against-4.blogspot.com/2011/07/proms-2011-havergal-brian-symphony-no-1.html

(scroll down)

Yes! You are a frog among men, sir.

OMG JON. Thank you so much for the Othmar Schoeck recommendation. How had I never heard this piece before? It's *very specifically* my sort of thing. Beautiful.

Yeah I didn't pay any attention to him for a long time because I somehow had the idea he was a heavy cream viennese waltz guy, rong. A review by Adrien Corleonis in Fanfare finally made me go looking.

Skeptical about the conclusions being drawn here--I'd have to look at the original studies--but the headline made me laugh:

Audiences Hate Modern Classical Music Because Their Brains Cannot Cope

Koechlin - Les Heures Persanes

hell yeah

^^^the orchestral and solo piano versions are equally awesome. My favorite Koechlin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/oct/05/notes-letters-music-modernism-self/print

Good article

I am listening to Liszt's Waltzes (Leslie Howard)

\(^o^)/

i love that lp, the valses oubliées are some of the most neglected pieces in liszt's outlying repertory

alongside the #2 and #3 mephisto waltzes they are good examples of the extravagance of his marquee phase giving way to the contrary introversion of late liszt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI2Q4aninE&feature=related

This might be a long shot, but the frequent posters on this thread sure know their classical music, so:

What's the best version/cd-release of Pierre Boulez' 'Pli Selon Pli'? Amazon lists 17 releases, but I have no idea which ones are considered the best or where to start to find this out for myself. Any help would be greatly appreciated.