https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMcY2DkuAoY
― jaxon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 06:02 (fourteen years ago)
http://silencenogood.net/what-you-need-the-weekend/
― jaxon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 06:04 (fourteen years ago)
http://savingsoulblog.com/2010/12/19/the-weekend-what-you-need-tom-wrecks-edit/
― jaxon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 06:05 (fourteen years ago)
these dudes are friends of friends /no suzy
― Lamp, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 06:06 (fourteen years ago)
you from toronto? fucking love this song. is there more from them?
― jaxon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 06:09 (fourteen years ago)
haha thats a p terrible post just reflexive i guess. i live in toronto (not from here tho)
anyway yah this is a jam "loft party" is p great track too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsWL6LI2htg&feature=player_embedded
'this morning' is less successful but kinda gives a handle on what theyre into:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFkrp5CL0iY&feature=related
― Lamp, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 06:14 (fourteen years ago)
beach house sample
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 08:48 (fourteen years ago)
which beach house song?
― jaxon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
there's more than one?
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
(j/k!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9PuAm7d0PA
― jaxon, Tuesday, 15 March 2011 05:49 (fourteen years ago)
not a chris isaak cover, not that i'd be mad at that
― jaxon, Tuesday, 15 March 2011 05:50 (fourteen years ago)
lol i was gonna start a thread, you should fix the title btw also yes i love all these songs. loft music and wicked game esp.
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 15 March 2011 12:26 (fourteen years ago)
o snap. i never realized it was spelled w/o an 'e' at the end
― jaxon, Tuesday, 15 March 2011 20:23 (fourteen years ago)
These guys remind me of Arab Strap.
― bamcquern, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 04:31 (fourteen years ago)
this is weird, cuz i usually agree w/ jaxon about like 90% of stuff, but i dont really like this. the first track the vocals are so heavily layered & echoed that I dont really 'feel' it & it makes me all Lex-ish wishing the performance was there, because the song is **aite** but not really much more than a slow jam. but whats a slow jam where the vocals are so filtered? All i can imagine explaining that is a bunch of gross Wire/chillwave/hypnogogic style stuff about ghostly memories of a slow jam or some ish
wicked games the vocals are better but the song has so many unnecessary 'fuckings' its distracting & lyrically corny in parts
― deej, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 04:34 (fourteen years ago)
I've got your performance right here.
jk
― bamcquern, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 04:41 (fourteen years ago)
i guess the thing that i like is that it is sorta chillwavy whatevsy. it kinda reminds me of all that post dubstep r'n'b influenced stuff i'm really into but know nothing about like burial or james blake or deadboy remixes or burial or whatever (where should i look to get more of this stuff btw?), but it's more of an actual r'n'b song than those. my MO has always been chocolate in my peanut butter*. foreign takes on rock music, psychedelic country, disco jazz, synthy african music etc. i guess i really like this because it's not straight up r'n'b.
* does this make me corny indie fuxor btw?
― jaxon, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 05:39 (fourteen years ago)
yah this grafts together two things i really like: chillwave and cute-boy-r&b. usually this kindof yoking together of things i like pisses me off and i tend to be a bit like this is a watered down versh of 2 things i like but in this case i love it.
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 09:28 (fourteen years ago)
new stuff here; http://soundcloud.com/theweekndxo
― mmmm, Monday, 21 March 2011 11:52 (fourteen years ago)
jaxon what you said makes sense, i guess to me it just seems too close to actual R&B, not weird enough, to seem partic. novel. Burial im not a huge fan of but it at least has a beat style that exists outside of current R&B, this just sounds like an anonymous slow jam to me but w/ a plainer vocal performance
― D-40, Monday, 21 March 2011 14:38 (fourteen years ago)
lol @ 'actual R&B' you are so weird
― nu rave electro banger coked out art school college party (Lamp), Monday, 21 March 2011 16:57 (fourteen years ago)
holy shit, thanks for that soundcloud link.
also, apparently i like burial so much i mentioned him twice
― jaxon, Monday, 21 March 2011 17:17 (fourteen years ago)
― nu rave electro banger coked out art school college party (Lamp), Monday, March 21, 2011 4:57 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
not sure whats weird abt this
― D-40, Monday, 21 March 2011 17:43 (fourteen years ago)
version of "The Morning" doesnt have the slo-mo vocal effect abused by salem
i liked the old version but i like this version too
― gr8080, Monday, 21 March 2011 20:48 (fourteen years ago)
"the morning" is pretty fucking amazing tho
this whole thing is weird as hell tho
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 01:40 (fourteen years ago)
i really am interested to find about who this guy is/what he's into/who he's affiliated with etc
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 02:20 (fourteen years ago)
i hear drake, trey songz, the-dream & dirty money as much as i hear hypnagogic pop
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 02:21 (fourteen years ago)
the thing i'm interested in is why the music codes mainstream r&b but the surface aesthetics & target audience are pure indie rock
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 02:22 (fourteen years ago)
so "what you need" samples "rock the boat" & "the party & the after party" samples beach house
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 02:41 (fourteen years ago)
when i heard that beach house i knew i knew it but it felt like some awesome classic rock radio wild card like wicked game or tusk or something and then i was like oh its beach house and maybe i like beach house now maybe
― ico, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 02:45 (fourteen years ago)
Your name looks weird.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 03:14 (fourteen years ago)
anyone catch "Coming Down" before the download limit was reached? and what track number are it, Wicked Games & What You Need?
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:49 (fourteen years ago)
coming down is 7, wicked games is 5, what you need is 2
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:50 (fourteen years ago)
apparently co-signed by drake alreadyhttp://rapfix.mtv.com/2011/03/21/say-hello-to-the-weeknd-drake-co-signs/
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:52 (fourteen years ago)
shocking, that
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:52 (fourteen years ago)
nm. found an alternative dl
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:54 (fourteen years ago)
xpost. ha. ya
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:55 (fourteen years ago)
Look out for an abundance of emoness!
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 04:55 (fourteen years ago)
i guess i really like this because it's not straight up r'n'b.
...yes?
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:10 (fourteen years ago)
i really hate this, like really really can't stand, and please can pitchfork types "doing" r&b just end already? it's gross
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:11 (fourteen years ago)
this guy isn't a pitchfork type tho, which is why it's interesting & how to dress well really isn't
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:14 (fourteen years ago)
or "these guys" or w/e
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:15 (fourteen years ago)
everything about the vocals makes me cringe (ughhh the OTT swearing just feels so contrived), there's like no emotion in it at all, and the music is generic chillwave? witch house is more interesting than this
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:26 (fourteen years ago)
i think deej's criticism that the songwriting isn't strong enough rings true at times but i think you're really evaluating the point of the project & other things about it
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:28 (fourteen years ago)
er, misevaluating
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:29 (fourteen years ago)
what is the "point" of this project then
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:31 (fourteen years ago)
like, the guy is a better singer than the-dream for one. also the music isn't generic chillwave in the slightest, at least the chillwave i'm aware of. it definitely is chill and at times can be chillwave-y, but it quite obviously expands on that. most of the time it sounds like a less pop-indebted version of the drake/40 sound (like, you could the beat for "fall for your type" on this album and you would hardly be able to tell)
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:33 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:31 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
honestly i'm not exactly sure, which is part of what i find interesting about them. but i think it's quite clear that they're going for something different than how to dress well, who pretty much seemed to be asking "what if i made r&b as indie as possible, also if i recorded my album inside a drain pipe?". weeknd to me seems like pretty straight ahead contemporary r&b, albeit someone w/ an interest in some types of indie music. i mean the guy sings about alize and making it rain and crap. it's more trey songz than pitchfork tbh.
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:36 (fourteen years ago)
i mean the guy sings about alize and making it rain and crap
this really comes across as so gimmicky though - it seems really forced. i'm not going to second-guess his motivation or background but it totally sounds like co-opting signifiers from the outside in the most boring way.
he's not even as good a singer as terius and certainly doesn't possess the wit or the gift for melody that makes terius' limitations as a vocalist easy to ignore.
and a huge #smh to most of the people bigging this guy up who never took the slightest bit of interest in trey songz - that right there is the warning sign
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 08:50 (fourteen years ago)
They mostly sound like a bad impression of a load of music I quite like. They dont seem to be able to program a beat that doesn't sound clunky and annoying either. What You Need is the best of a bad bunch so far. Maybe they'll come with more of that and refine their sound a load and grow into it but I dunno... It all seems early days for these dudes, right now it sounds like they're still learning and hopping on a load of trends from the shitty dubstep impressions in some of the beats to shity JJ/chillwave impressions in a load of the music to R&B in the vocals... They sound like they're playing dress up right now.
― jimitheexploder, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 09:02 (fourteen years ago)
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:14 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thing is, i like it sometimes when pfork guys try to do that stuff. they dont get an automatic pass in either direction. what matters imo is songwriting & this project has its moments --'the morning' is p great -- but some big misses too. that 'rock the boat' sampling one is generic as hell & the vocal effect is distancing. & the lyrics in the 2nd one, where he keeps saying 'motherfucker,' are really off putting & gimmicky. im kind of w/ lex here in that if you like this stuff, you should love the album tracks ("unfortunate" etc) on the last trey songz
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 14:27 (fourteen years ago)
i dont hear the 'indie'-ness of this at all tho -- sounds like R&B not always done very well
nabisco's last column is all abt this kind of thing btw
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 14:28 (fourteen years ago)
Everybody loves Trey Songz.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 14:48 (fourteen years ago)
stoked lex doesn't like this
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 15:13 (fourteen years ago)
ha. but yeah, what are you guys hearing that is weird or interesting abt this? i mean, assuming you dont have probs w/ the songwriting i just dont get whats particularly out there abt it
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 15:36 (fourteen years ago)
I actually haven't herd the whole album yet. Planning on listening later today, but I'm basing all my fanboyism on 'what you need'. I'll check out Trey songz and would like any other recs like this.
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 15:54 (fourteen years ago)
the album as a whole does have some lapses in songwriting and definitely gets over on mood in places, but if you dig the general sound it's a pretty good album
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 15:55 (fourteen years ago)
yeah im basing this off the three songs ive heard so i need to hear the full record
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 16:02 (fourteen years ago)
my favourite r&b albums of 2011 so far are the kandi and marsha ambrosius, and the diddy/dirty money and dawn richard mixtapes
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 16:06 (fourteen years ago)
kinda loving this. does read a lot like htdw w/ "better" singing
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 18:57 (fourteen years ago)
this music is designed for sex+weed
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:10 (fourteen years ago)
this thread is gonna turn me into the lex
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:10 (fourteen years ago)
smoke weed listen to sade imo
sade makes me think of middle aged ladies
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:13 (fourteen years ago)
comment on karagarga:
The-Dream's infatuation with girls has made him the biggest pimp on earth. The Weeknd's infatuation with girls has made him painfully lonely, sorrowful and filled with heartache. Everybody else sits somewhere in between.
karablabla
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:14 (fourteen years ago)
The Weeknd's infatuation with girls has made him painfully lonely, sorrowful and filled with heartache
fkn inadequate indie losers
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:14 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
with which u are v familiar obv
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:16 (fourteen years ago)
OK, this/these IS/ARE the person/people with the song containing "watch me knock your boots off." ("Would you like some making fuck/BERSERKER.")
What I've heard sounds shriveled and (like Lex said) forced.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:23 (fourteen years ago)
ha glad im not alone w/ lex on this one no offense lex
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
kmt
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
lol you guys like jamie woon and harsh on this smh
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:29 (fourteen years ago)
havent heard the lp yet but 'night air' >>>>
grady just listen to R&B
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:32 (fourteen years ago)
havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet havent heard the lp yet
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:38 (fourteen years ago)
xpost. ^ that's what's so wrong about your opinions. fuck all this "just listen to the real thing". it might not be the best songwriting (dunno yet), he def overuses the word 'fuck', but from what i've heard, he/they create a really great mood.
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:38 (fourteen years ago)
j shep!
http://twitter.com/jawnita/status/50279876359499776
jawnita If u fuck with the weeknd and don't fux with loleatta holiday, I probably hate you 6 minutes ago via OpenBeak
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:39 (fourteen years ago)
What about Donnie Holloway?
― Andy K, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:40 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i dont like the real thing, sorry
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:41 (fourteen years ago)
my version is if you fux with the weeknd but don't fux with actual r&b, yr opinion is void
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:43 (fourteen years ago)
like seriously what motivates people to go check out the weeknd and stan for them but pretty much ignore marsha ambrosius or trey songz or kandi?
listening to 'hope she cheats on you (w/a basketball player) from marsha ambrosius, and i get the comparisons, but what i don't like about this, and what i do like about the weeknd, is the production. it's too big. i like some dirt in my recordings. i mean, calling me indie is just kinda ridiculous if you even knew what kind of music i listen to. i spend 99.5% of my time listening to music pre-1995. occasionally i get hold of something current that's a bit different, or revivalist or something, and only like it because it's not like everything else out there.
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:44 (fourteen years ago)
their cover art isnt indie-looking enough to draw my attention, sorryxpost
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:44 (fourteen years ago)
this is the one by marsha a.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1TiM7dN5R8
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:47 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:38 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah but the lead single i think is p bad & thats like everyones fav cut
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:51 (fourteen years ago)
jaxon did u like trey songz 'unfortunate'
i dig that marsha ambrosius jam. does the rest of the record sound like that, or is this just her prince homage?
― adult music person (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:57 (fourteen years ago)
trey songz has many fine singles but 'house of balloons' >>> the last two trey songz lps
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:58 (fourteen years ago)
also it's pretty easy to see why ppl would fuck w/ this & not marshia ambrosious or kandi!! like, it's really patently obvious!
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 19:59 (fourteen years ago)
(honestly i like 'what you need' more though, it's got an atmosphere that sucks me in immediately)
xp
― adult music person (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:00 (fourteen years ago)
pretty much all sounds like that - don't think it's a classic album or anything, some of the songs don't quite work, but the sound is consistent and at its best it's rather incredible
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:02 (fourteen years ago)
i don't really see why people who enjoy something that sells itself as r&b-derived should be uninterested in actual r&b at all
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:03 (fourteen years ago)
im not sure lex's examples are the best ones to make a pt with -- hes comparing, like, stuff that came out recently & is R&B at some level, which is like, if you're looking for the vibe u get from weeknd you wont find it in a kandi lp.
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:03 (fourteen years ago)
lex i think that argument hurts your case here
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:04 (fourteen years ago)
like, i think 'actual R&B' is better than jamie lidell too, but then theres lots of 'actual R&B' that is as bad or worse. just relying on that authenticity argument is kind of empty & pointless. if weeknd was more 'real' it wouldnt necessarily make him 'better'.
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:05 (fourteen years ago)
if you're looking for the vibe u get from weeknd you wont find it in a kandi lp.
― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:03 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark
this is what i'm saying -- the vibe & sound of the weeknd is not something you'd pick up in the jazmine sullivan album
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:05 (fourteen years ago)
that said i think there is lots of R&B that gets this vibe. & doesnt have weird stiff lyrics & anemic songwriting
i feel like theres a copout where if its weird or vaguely indie it gets a pass in the songwriting dept., or the performing dept. i dont really buy the 'it cant be compared to R&B because its not JUST R&B' when it suffers by some R&B standards imo but no one can articulate what its doing that R&B doesnt
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:08 (fourteen years ago)
anyway ill listen to the rest of this on the way home from work before weighing in more
this is also true -- if lex's argument was why would you fuck w/ the weeknd but not the-dream or diddy-dirty money then he might be onto something
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:09 (fourteen years ago)
i feel like theres a copout where if its weird or vaguely indie it gets a pass in the songwriting dept., or the performing dept.
lots of stuff that is sonically weird or interesting gets a pass in the songwriting/performing depts, genre aside
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:09 (fourteen years ago)
i agree n/a i just dont think this is weird enough
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:10 (fourteen years ago)
yeah the albums i cited don't aim for the same vibe at all but to be uninterested in them while stanning for the weeknd is still telling imo.
no one can articulate what its doing that R&B doesnt
yeah this is my issue too.
anyway i have to go, i have a date
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:11 (fourteen years ago)
― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
well i mean there IS some pretty clear aesthetic stuff -- i.e. "what you need" is heavy on the james blake EP style
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:11 (fourteen years ago)
altho i think the deadpan vocals really hurt that song
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:12 (fourteen years ago)
also lol @ ppl poo-pooing the weeknd for SWEARING TOO MUCH
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:16 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i don't get that at all
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:17 (fourteen years ago)
iirc its not a moral argument its about how it disrupts the tone & overall aesthetic
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:19 (fourteen years ago)
jaxon did u like trey songz 'unfortunate'― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:51 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
just got back from lunch and am listening to this. yes. it's pretty great. i listen to the radio pretty frequently in the car, so it's not like i don't like 'real r'n'b'. i think all i've heard of his is Bottoms Up. pretty generic radio pop, but this is more the vibe i'm looking for.
i also really like this songhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4GJVOMjCC4
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:41 (fourteen years ago)
lex, personally i love some mainstream r&b, but i'm pretty happy going back to my '90s classics and don't tend to seek out new (under-the-rader) stuff in the same vein (although i'm always happy to check some out, and i appreciate when you post it).
but, it's very much in character for me to go for some shit that prioritizes mood & sonics ahead of vocals, which is what i'm hearing on this weekend tune.
― adult music person (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 20:44 (fourteen years ago)
― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:19 AM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark
adds to the tone and aesthetic imo
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 21:06 (fourteen years ago)
"Bottoms Up" is definitely the outlier on the latest Trey Songz album, which is definitely worth seeking out, Jaxon. The rest of it is just a riches of fantastic, tense slow jams. The Miguel album isn't nearly as even, but it does have a lot of great tracks on it, too.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 21:10 (fourteen years ago)
i hadn't checked out any trey songz either, "unfortunate" is really nice
― adult music person (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 21:18 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:06 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
to what end? feels like a way of saying 'yo this is real R&B!' like your dad using slang
― D-40, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 21:19 (fourteen years ago)
hahahaha idk man he just sounds like a chill guy who uses swear words a lot; i'm not coming at this from a "BUT THIS IS NOT REAL R&B" angle at all
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 21:24 (fourteen years ago)
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:00 (fourteen years ago)
i thought u were into this, lamp
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:01 (fourteen years ago)
haha no i want to defend these dudes but i know theres no point, its just irksome. @ some point to i think ppl like lex and deej just need to stop tryna listen to things they dont have the ears/vocabulary/mindset for instead of punishing us w/ their opinions abt
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:08 (fourteen years ago)
otm i dont listen to this and compare it to """REAL R&B""" at all
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:17 (fourteen years ago)
i think this should lead to a thorough discussion of what "REAL" R&B is anyways
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:18 (fourteen years ago)
i'm not going to read it, but you guys should just go ahead with it anyways
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:19 (fourteen years ago)
haha yeah i was gonna say "no, thanks."
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:19 (fourteen years ago)
i'm just kidding, i would be interested in an explanation of why this isn't "real R&B"
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:20 (fourteen years ago)
its obvious that it isn't "real r+b"
what baffles me is why that matters/ discredits it!!!
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:21 (fourteen years ago)
lex offtm but that marsha ambrosius youtube is stunning
― flopson, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:21 (fourteen years ago)
oh ok i haven't listened to it but if it's obvious then nevermind
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:22 (fourteen years ago)
well the whole 'real r&b' thing is deeply stupid so w/e but i think deej's complaint abt the 'anemic songwriting' misses the point of what theyre trying to do, considering how much interest there seems to be in cultivating mood & atmosphere & in texture & pallete.
like i can see disliking this or finding the songs static & undynamic they do sorta sit there looking cool but its not like these kinda mood pieces somehow exist drastically outside the context of REAL R&B, this seems like a p meaningless binary.
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:31 (fourteen years ago)
i cant think of a good way of saying this but i think the 'real r&b' thing is about movement vs texture like a song off 'kandi koated' is going to draw the listener in & create an emotional connection through the lyrics & the dynamism of the song its still sort of a 'narrative' whereas weeknd are about creating and sustaining a ~mood~ that compells the listener its not going to be as varied or as structured its just sort a ~moment~
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:36 (fourteen years ago)
when i first started pushing Sa-Ra Creative Partners and some of that other detroit post dilla r'n'b, i got a lot of the same complaints. production over vocals. not good enough "songwriting" (whatever that meant), etc. i called jess an r'n'b-ist. it's funny that this kind of stuff can be looked over when listening to dance music, but not when it's 'r'n'b'
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:37 (fourteen years ago)
real r&b like cee-lo green's smash hit "fuck you"
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:53 (fourteen years ago)
XD
― jaxon, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:55 (fourteen years ago)
lol gr8080
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:57 (fourteen years ago)
a mojor problem i have w. these kinds of arguments is how they quickly kindof reveal themselves as being esst. abt authenticity on more levels than like being specific about genre. I mean yeah this thing is being received as indie AND rnb to varying degrees by diff listeners. and the way it gets represented in terms of such a binary will inevitably get tangled up in issues like genre-gatekeeperism and the prestige of certain types of fandom/scenesterism. So like for a certain person its of vital importance that like something like this remains w/n the context of rnb where it can be dismissed as technically inept or praised as sonically distinct or w/e.
like i mean lamp is right to say that these kindof dismissals are p dumb and miss the point and it reminds me of the way in which how to dress well was totally misunderstood by this board as like bad rnb for ppl who like indie when it was really about kindof discursively doing things that *connect* ambient noise w/ top40 rnb.
really these bands just seem in some way the wank fantasy of like early 00s rock crit and the cxn/discxn b/w "high" and "low" and pop and avant garde etc etc. I mean on one level im kindof suspicious of those arguments because they do seem *in some ways* bound up w/ perceptions of like great white indie patronising the great unwashed but at the same time maybe that's playing into the hands of certain poptimist arguments and their fetishistic authenticity contrarianism so idk.
This seems really moody and kindof *about* hearing some slow jam and private dancers & c & c and i can get w/ that and they never turn the lights on here
― ico, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 22:57 (fourteen years ago)
considering how much interest there seems to be in cultivating mood & atmosphere & in texture & pallete.
i don't really get the big deal here either cuz i don't think the weeknd do any of those things particularly well either (and the vocals being so far to the forefront detracts from them) - i mean moody chillwavey texturey acts are ten a penny atm and i like many of them, and the weeknd just seem basic and not very interesting compared to white ring/games/hyetal or whoever.
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 23:35 (fourteen years ago)
i have no qualms about being an r&bist and sticking up for real r&b considering how everyone else would rather pretend it doesn't exist
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 23:36 (fourteen years ago)
yes lex, by enjoying the weeknd i have to pretend that the-dream does not exist. fascinating point.
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 23:42 (fourteen years ago)
yeah try stuff that isn't the pfork token r&b act
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 23:49 (fourteen years ago)
you're the one framing things as pitchfork acts or not a pitchfork acts!
a friend told me to check them out and i did. i dont give a fuck who's blog they're on or what artists they don't sound like who i should really be listening to instead. i just wanna get lifted and listen to this and make out w/ somebody.
― gr8080, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 23:58 (fourteen years ago)
also the-dream is pitchfork's token r&b act last time i checked!!!!
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:04 (fourteen years ago)
lex is veering into former-deej territory w/ this R&B inferiority complex
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:07 (fourteen years ago)
that's what i was saying
and i can't help it if yr taste fits an existing aesthetic
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:08 (fourteen years ago)
oh ok i thought you liked the-dream,
the point stands re: you framing artists as pitchfork artists or non-pitchfork artists
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:11 (fourteen years ago)
i don't really get the big deal here either cuz i don't think the weeknd do any of those things particularly well either
okay, sure i mean i dont care if you 'like' these dudes but obv theyre working with a different toolkit than marsha ambrosiu. i dont even think its really worth interrogating this stuff now either - certain methodologies speak to certain audiences better for a host of reasons, also certain methodolgies may be 'better' @ evoking some moments or emotions.
also i guess im p big fan of 'kandi koated' mb not vocally on ilm but its... no1 is pretending she doesnt exist
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:11 (fourteen years ago)
btw can we get a thread title change, its really bugging me
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:13 (fourteen years ago)
also honestly i dont know how to say this in a nice way but your tendency to dismiss music that wants to convey reflectiveness or wistfulness or spiritual yearning as 'indie' and 'pathetic' is both sad and creepy
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:14 (fourteen years ago)
i like a lot of reflective and wistful music
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:42 (fourteen years ago)
suzanne vega
memoirs of an imperfect angel
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:43 (fourteen years ago)
kompaktnicolas jaarguido
No idea what REAL R&B means, especially as the acts Lex talks about are themselves a mutation of the original form. Why is it okay for them to take the genre into new places, but not, say, the Weeknd?
― Position Position, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 00:44 (fourteen years ago)
well the weeknd isn't taking the genre into new places -- i think the one thing that's good about the weeknd is that it's easy to see exactly how we've ended up at this sound -- the album feels to me like something that should be happening right now -- not that that makes it better/worse, but they certainly aren't taking r&b to new places, unless you consider a beach house sample to be "new places"
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 01:08 (fourteen years ago)
also i gotta say that if you want to make the argument that weeknd is r&b for pp that don't listen to r&b, ilm of all places is probably not that place
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 01:09 (fourteen years ago)
― blingee cummings (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
^^^THIS. Like, Lex, I'm never totally unsympathetic to your concerns in these arguments but you always have this tendency to say "this is like music I like but for people who read pitchfork OH LORD WHY IS EVERYONE IGNORING THE REAL [RAP/R&B/DANCE/ELECTRONICA/WHATEVER] and....usually those of us who are boosting the aforementioned "fake" stuff are people who are totally on your side when it comes to Dirty Money or The-Dream or Electrik Red or Nights Slugs or Jazmine or even K. Michelle.
Part of me feels there's an interesting discussion to be had about the stuff plax brought up re: How to Dress Well and this and the discursive ways that they interact with chartpop, R&B, etc., but it can't even happen without everyone involved needing to prove their credentials as people who value "Real R&B" and value it more than whatever we're discussing - as though they do the same things, or as though we like them for the same reasons.
― Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill The Radio Star (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 02:31 (fourteen years ago)
Sorry if that came off overly negative. I wasn't trying to attack you personally, it's just...taken as read, I guess, that you will probably find this sort of music HORRIBLY OFFENSIVE to your sensibilities, but enjoyment of music isn't a war or a zero-sum game, and it's in fact possible for some of us to like both. You reading these threads is sort of like me following Sarah Palin on Twitter. I *know* it's only going to piss me off and then I get to rant and be self-righteous. Which is nice, I suppose, but not as productive as it could be.
― Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill The Radio Star (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 02:34 (fourteen years ago)
At any rate, I'm not sold on the entire thing yet, but "What You Need" is gorgeous and "Wicked Games" is p awesome also.
Also, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BSnOeMb6_o
― Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill The Radio Star (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 02:36 (fourteen years ago)
i honestly have no idea how How to dress Well is connected to this or r'n'b in the least, besides the guy namedropping keith sweat every other question. once again, haven't heard the album yet, but from the few songs i've heard, just sounds like ambient indie w/falsetto singing. does falsetto always = soul?
― jaxon, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 04:32 (fourteen years ago)
and for how many times people namedrop them here, there's no thread on them?
― jaxon, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 04:33 (fourteen years ago)
i think i like how to dress well more than i like weekend
― max, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 04:51 (fourteen years ago)
yes on weekend I dress well very much all the times thank you
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 04:55 (fourteen years ago)
weeknd is pretty good but this Marsha ambrosias album is next level
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 05:12 (fourteen years ago)
weeknd is kinda samey and one note, maybe I should listen to it more
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 05:13 (fourteen years ago)
dayo do you like brightblack morning light
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 05:40 (fourteen years ago)
haha no i want to defend these dudes but i know theres no point, its just irksome. @ some point to i think ppl like lex and deej just need to stop tryna listen to things they dont have the ears/vocabulary/mindset for instead of punishing us w/ their opinions abt― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:08 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― r u levelled up? (Lamp), Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:08 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
yeah, this is unfairly condescending, i have the fucking 'ears/vocabulary/mindset' to get this, i fucking understand what they're 'going for' & ive been listening to this milieu for years dude. just because someone disagrees w/ you doesnt mean that they dont 'get it.' i mean andy k said hes not feeling this stuff either & you certainly cant accuse him of not 'getting it' when it comes to a) music that is about 'texture & mood' or b) R&B
of course i dont think u can say that about me either but hes prob a less controversial example
to all you dudes accusing me of it, im certainly not someone arguing that this is wack compared to 'real R&B' & its not an authenticity issue for me at all. i also dont know what dayo is talking abt w/r/t 'old deej' & R&B either
i repped for effing ariel pink & argued w/ lex for ages abt it or some other indie thing -- for me, if the songwriting is tight or interesting, if i think there's something novel going on, im into it. my problem w/ this shit is it sounds p generic & this supposedly interesting mood & texture dont sound v novel or interesting to me. this is basically 'electrosoul like jamie lidell' part 1000 as far as i can tell.
i listened to the entire thing on my way home & i think 'the morning' is the only song that really works well, because it actually bothers to have a worthwhile hook. they have some creative & interesting ideas to explore throughout -- i like the vocal sample, and later on the guitar-driven rhythm on 'the party & the afterparty.' for example. but yeah, for the most part the lyrics are stilted & awkward, the 'novel textures' arent nearly as novel as they think they are, the songwriting lacks hooks. this stuff imo doesnt function the way its intended most of the time.
― D-40, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 06:35 (fourteen years ago)
heres something that i think is fair w/r/t R&B: I think its fair to judge music that has so many signifiers of R&B by comparing it w/ past examples of R&B. that doesnt mean im arguing whether its 'real' or 'fake' R&B at all -- im merely evaluating it by the same criteria that i would, say, teedra moses (who fwiw does a really great job w/ both songwriting AND cultivating a unique mood/textures etc)(or her producers do)i also think the trey songz track i mentioned upthread is stronger than anything on this record
this isnt because these songs are 'more real.' its because i find the performances a lot more effective at conveying emotion/sexiness/a multitude of other feelings
― D-40, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 06:39 (fourteen years ago)
will agree that "the morning" is the best track by a mile
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 06:40 (fourteen years ago)
i dont begrudge anyone who likes this record, fwiw. this is all about 'taste' in the end
but belittling ppl & painting me w/ a lexian brush is a bit ott
― D-40, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 06:41 (fourteen years ago)
i briefly listened to this earlier and it sounded like something i might like. i didn't realise anyone else loved 'unfortunate' - so good
― kl0ppa kl0ppa down (tpp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 09:01 (fourteen years ago)
I think its fair to judge music that has so many signifiers of R&B by comparing it w/ past examples of R&B
yeah exactly - no one's actually made a case for what the weeknd are doing yet, all you've said is "well it's not like r&b at all!" - when i compare it to real r&b i'm saying it doesn't convey mood or emotion as well. and i've also compared it to more chillwavey acts too, and i've also said it doesn't convey mood or emotion as well as them either, so dismissing my criticisms as "it's just not lex's thing" doesn't wash - this is just shitty music that takes a bunch of signifiers that other people are presently doing a whole lot better, and doesn't do anything interesting with them
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 09:06 (fourteen years ago)
and given that i've loved a whole bunch of artists recontextualising r&b into different situations and aesthetics of late - kingdom, nguzunguzu, girl unit most obviously, but it seems like every electronic mix i hear nowadays is honour-bound to drop an old r&b track in somewhere - it's not like i'm remotely saying that ONLY REAL R&B COUNTS - it's that some people do it better than others
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 09:12 (fourteen years ago)
lol if you can't see the similaritiesbetween lex's 'can't believe ppl are into this when there's so much Real R&B out there' and what you do wit goon rap then I don't even
also meant old deej because it seems d-40 is a more chilled out poster but feel free to prove me wrong
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 09:22 (fourteen years ago)
(like, you could the beat for "fall for your type" on this album and you would hardly be able to tell)
totally. i like the sound of this weeknd mixtape. to me it sounds closer to drake's r&b stuff and trey songz (ppl who like this should check out the 'anticipation' mixtape) than the-dream (although the lyrics are clearly terius influenced "got the walls kicking like they 6 months pregnant" lol)
i understand where the genre-defensiveness comes from but i don't even know anything about this guy? how comes it's a "pitchfork thing"? regardless maybe it's not as good as trey or whatever but that doesn't mean there's not something to enjoy here. so often on ilm things seem to end up like playing artist top trumps. " x > y so therefore never bring up y again unless you want to get into another argument about how x > y".
― kl0ppa kl0ppa down (tpp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 13:04 (fourteen years ago)
between lex's 'can't believe ppl are into this when there's so much Real R&B out there' and what you do wit goon rap then I don't even
― dayo, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:22 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
what do i 'do' w/ goon rap, do tell
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:24 (fourteen years ago)
*drama alarm*
― kl0ppa kl0ppa down (tpp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:25 (fourteen years ago)
i dont say what i listen to is more 'real' than anything else. i do make arguments about why music i like seems better / more significant or w/e but i dont know of any single time ive ever claimed an act is less 'real' than another one
& in fact i do embrace the artifice of certain pop rap acts regularly so
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:27 (fourteen years ago)
lol
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:29 (fourteen years ago)
okay I'll break it down for you
...
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:33 (fourteen years ago)
seems to me that you and lex are both music critics who truck in genres that, in the grand scheme of music criticism, seem to be marginalized & overlooked. or at least, both you and lex spend a lot of time complaining about 'mainstream' coverage of your specialist genres by sites like pitchfork, how they privilege the wrong aspects, the wrong artists, how their aesthetics don't plug into your framework.
anyway seems to me that the weeknd have a 'sound' that some people on this board like, people who don't spend all their time listening to modern R&B, or at least not to the extent that the lex does. and so maybe these people enjoy listening to the weeknd precisely because they are not burdened by the baggage that someone like lex brings to the table! maybe the weeknd pushes certain buttons for them, buttons that are not valuable to the lex. and that's okay. coming in this thread and being all "pitchfork blah blah blah hate indie weakling pathetic trey songz" is kinda the equivalent of the dude in high school who pulls you out and says "you're listening to green day? GREEN DAY? don't you know there are 100 bands that are more punk than GREEN DAY?"
sometimes you just wanna listen to green day.
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:35 (fourteen years ago)
if you're asking if i see why lex's rhetoric makes it harder to listen to artists he likes sometimes, yes i do & i made that pt in the jazmine sullivan vs janelle monae debates
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:38 (fourteen years ago)
there were jazmine sullivan vs. janelle monae debates?
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:41 (fourteen years ago)
welcome to ilx lol
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:52 (fourteen years ago)
fwiw i agree/disagree w/ how this is framed. or i think there needs to be some nuance. 'mainstream' sites are, in fact, specialist music sites w/ disproportionate influence on discourse. theres nothing really 'specialist' about the genres lex or i talk abt, except to the extent that theres not a history of critical framework around them to the extent it exists for other genres. as a result, the dominant stories about these genrescome from people not as familiar w/ the history and aesthetic value systems that have helped develop these genres. so i spend a lot of time trying to identify how these values are manifested in the music, then track those backwards into stories about how the music has developed. a project like this requires a certain amount of irreverence -- 'fake' stuff is always influencing 'real', or stuff i dont care for is often impacting stuff i do like.
regardless, framing this as a 'real'/'fake' thing the way lex often does is misleading & unhelpful. it becomes its own ideology. but just as youre free to dismiss my arguments about why the jacka is a great rapper (or whoever) im certainly free to dismiss the weeknd as being particularly interesting in the grand scheme of things no?
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 15:02 (fourteen years ago)
no one's actually made a case for what the weeknd are doing yet, all you've said is "well it's not like r&b at all!"
The primary appeal for me, as someone who listens to modern R&B more than anything else these days, is good slow jams are hard to pull off, and I think this album pulls them off. The guy's got a nice voice, and most of these tracks really do have huge hooks.
What it offers that other R&B doesn't, of course, is a much broader palette: more guitars, odder samples, glitchy beats, Souxsie and the Banshees-appropriated choruses. Some of that stuff works better than others—I particularly enjoy how hard some of these beats grind; it really hits home the angst—but I find most of it an interesting change of pace.
Also, some of the lyrics that are initially off-putting begin to make more sense over the course of an album. There's a nice, karmic balance over these nine tracks; every high is followed by a come down, every party by a morning after, every indulgence by a regret. The singer ultimately isn't quite the vain jerk he can come across as in small exposures; there's some depth to this songwriting.
― Evan R, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 15:24 (fourteen years ago)
^good post
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/03/the_weeknd_frank_ocean.php
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 18:43 (fourteen years ago)
i'm talking about evan's post, to be clear
all this stuff just feels to me like people who are so overly wary of industry machinery that they readily embrace other kinds of marketing and mythmaking -- people that don't give 2 shit about any new major label R&B album jump all over something that was shelved by Def Jam and uploaded to the artist's tumblr or is released by a mysterious anonymous collective
― some dude, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:02 (fourteen years ago)
surprised that vv article was the first comparison to odd future tbh
― jaxon, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:02 (fourteen years ago)
xp otm, explains why theyres so much noise abt OF as well...much of which isnt talking abt the music. victory of new marketing
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:03 (fourteen years ago)
evan's post is good except i still dont get what 'huge hooks' hes talking about
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:04 (fourteen years ago)
the odd future thing definitely makes sense in that regard
i don't think i'm gonna touch the part about drake 're-inventing r&b' tho
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:05 (fourteen years ago)
Threads like this make me wonder whether Lex would like the first Junior Boys album if it came out tomorrow or whether he'd be using exactly the same argument.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:06 (fourteen years ago)
that village voice article is really terrible
i just like disaffected party music its the ~modern condition~
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:08 (fourteen years ago)
i still get the sense every time i read abt drake that ppl are trying to will him into being important
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:10 (fourteen years ago)
Village Voice article just keeps shifting its goalposts between artistic and commercial success depending on whether the writer wants to disparage something or not. It's an incoherent mess.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:11 (fourteen years ago)
i always thought of junior boys as way more in line with kompakt and ~soft sad techno~ than 2-step or the neptunes - i remember reading that sort of line on it and then just thinking WTF when i finally heard last exit because it really wasn't in there at all
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:15 (fourteen years ago)
i've bitched about the fennessey piece elsewhere but everything about it is bullshit, from its existence to its arguments
i still get the sense every time i read abt drake turn on the radio that ppl are trying to will him into being important
― Moreno, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:21 (fourteen years ago)
i already wrote an anti-drake piece on the shrimp a year ago or w/e it was so i'm wary of being too public w/ my criticisms of his critical fanbase -- plus i don't even dislike him that much anymore
my problem w/ the drake part of the piece is that he's just such an obvious extension of the five or so years in rap that preceded him -- him & 40 def have a unique 'sound' but that sound isn't even on the radio & their singles for alicia & jamie foxx, though i like both a lot, underperformed quite a bit for those particular artists
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:21 (fourteen years ago)
so i'm not even going to get into how absurd the idea is that he 'changed r&b'
Yeah like I said nowadays you just get the red mist whenver any article even mentions commercial rnb in relation to a bedroom or indie audience. Actually it seems perfectly obvious why people might like rnb sonics but not the vocals or lyrics, but filtering those sonics through an indie prism and then still calling it rnb probably isn't the best line to take either way.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)
what? the alicia song was one of the biggest R&B radio hits of last year and the jamie one is in annoying heavy rotation right now (xpost)
― some dude, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)
like, literally, the #1 most played song on R&B radio last year: http://www.billboard.com/#/charts-year-end/hot-r-b-hip-hop-songs?year=2010
― some dude, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
yeah 'un-thinkable' is actually a bigger hit than i realized -- i guess i put it off to the side cuz the album as a whole felt like such a flop after the one before it
the whole foxx project was a failure pretty much & 'fall for your type' is a pretty minor it by his standards -- r&b placement aside
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:25 (fourteen years ago)
lol billboard airplay charts always confound me -- "there goes my baby"??
anyway drake is a kanye/wayne biter who hasn't changed anything -- we all know this
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:26 (fourteen years ago)
evan's post is good except i still dont get what 'huge hooks' hes talking about― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:04 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:04 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
dude this has bigger hooks than Jamie Woon.
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:26 (fourteen years ago)
playing "Wicked Games" right now
dude sounds like a version of Chris Brown who can sing
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
― Moreno, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:21 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
they just like his pop songs, i do feel like theres a concentrated effort to make him seem like some sort of high brow pop auteur genius which overstates things greatly imo
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:26 PM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i havent heard the woon album yet -- but nothing on this is as catchy as 'night air'
"Fall For Your TYpe" was #1 on the R&B chart a few weeks ago and is still in the top 5 -- that's pretty much the ceiling for R&B that sounds like R&B so why pretend those songs are failures just because they're not will.i.am/david guetta dancepop crossover hits as well?
― some dude, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
alright i'll retract slightly
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:29 (fourteen years ago)
i retract slightly every time i hear those garbage songs on the radio every hour
― some dude, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:29 (fourteen years ago)
hey-oooh
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:29 (fourteen years ago)
lean back
this is kind of great, or it would be with fewer "muhfuckers" and less noticeable autontune
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:30 (fourteen years ago)
his voice is good -- which makes the vocal filter on 'what you need' all the more inexplicable imo
'chillwave' marketing
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:33 (fourteen years ago)
the vocal filter on "What You Need" is very effective IMO
this is hitting me like a warmer version of Creep
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:34 (fourteen years ago)
i love the "motherfuckers"
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:35 (fourteen years ago)
very effective at doing what?
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:37 (fourteen years ago)
filtering vocals
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:38 (fourteen years ago)
for me it just feels distancing & cerebrally referential rather than giving any kind of emotional resonance
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:38 (fourteen years ago)
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:38 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thats a method not an effect
i still think my fave jam is 'loft music' in large part bcuz it sounds like a lost downbeat dream track
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:39 (fourteen years ago)
I don't think the "muhfuckers" fit in his voice very well; for whatever reason they leap out like a sore thumb
conversely, the word "shit" seems to flow quite nicely in his delivery
It seems like they are there to add in an extra layer of... for lack of a better word "distance" between the singer and the listener; it's using technology to inject a slight sense of danger into the song, making it sound slightly sinister and, as a result, sexier.
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:40 (fourteen years ago)
basically, all of the technology tricks in here are things I already like so putting a decent R&B singer in the midst of them is essentially someone creating the music I imagined in my head in 1996 but wasn't sure how to go about making
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:43 (fourteen years ago)
hmm yeah that has the exact opposite effect for me, feels like a way of distancing yourself from sexiness entirely, like one of the scary/sexy things about stuff like this to me is how intimate it can sound. Making it cold just makes it seem like a way to aim for 'remembering sexy' or something, which might be interesting if it wasnt the basis for the entire hypnogogic thing & countless wistful indie hazy records of the past few years. or burial. or whatever else. it doesnt do it for me any more
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:44 (fourteen years ago)
lol see I basically ignore all of that stuff until it appears in ILM EOY lists, and even then I usually continue to ignore it because I still haven't forgiven ppl for tricking me into listening to The Streets
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:46 (fourteen years ago)
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:46 (fourteen years ago)
a way of distancing yourself from sexiness entirely, like one of the scary/sexy things about stuff like this to me is how intimate it can sound. Making it cold just makes it seem like a way to aim for 'remembering sexy' or something,
ha this is like exactly what i love about this album but couldnt articulate! thanks deej!
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:48 (fourteen years ago)
also Brightblack Morning Light are one of my favorite 00's bands so
― gr8080, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:49 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i mean i figured thats what ppl liked about it, feels like a cliche to me at this pt after all the chillwave & hypnogogy but i guess some things never die & played signifiers of nostalgia is one of them :O
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:50 (fourteen years ago)
this is less played bc its more elegant & refined & poised, its hazy but its not sloppy
― flopson, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:53 (fourteen years ago)
"What You Need" seems to be pulling equally heavily from Tricky's "Overcome" and Madonna's "Justify My Love", two songs that I think are among the sexiest pieces of music on the planet, and then mixes it with tech tricks that are basically like catnip to me, so it's kind of a no-brainer that I would dig this almost instantly. Like I said, it's hitting almost all the same buttons as that Creep EP.
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:53 (fourteen years ago)
(which I will totally admit leans very heavily on the sloppy side of this spectrum)
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:54 (fourteen years ago)
its not reall abt 'nostalgia' tho imo its abt being at a party & feeling alone or the way you can feel like you know less abt a person after fucking them or seeing someone check their phone as soon as they get somewhere, already planning their exit. there are some sonic/aesthetic similarities w/'chillwave' stuff, sure, & they share a sense of alienation & displacement but weeknd are going after something else w/ these tracks imo
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:56 (fourteen years ago)
yall are some paranoid stoners
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 19:59 (fourteen years ago)
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:01 (fourteen years ago)
ah fuck off, gr8 post
― flopson, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:01 (fourteen years ago)
looking for rtc to weigh in
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:02 (fourteen years ago)
alienation and displacement
dial up the radiohead & release it anonymously -- guaranteed acclaim
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:06 (fourteen years ago)
anyway ill stop trolling now but this stuff still feels stiff to me & not in a way that makes me think abt when you're at a party but having a sad time there -- its not a problem of authenticity but i think a lot of stuff this purportedly does that is unique is stuff that isnt really that unique at all
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:08 (fourteen years ago)
"not the right kind of stiff"
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:09 (fourteen years ago)
i feeeeel the pain of everyone/then i feel nothing
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:10 (fourteen years ago)
I SHOULD dig this (and I don't care about authenticity) but all I keep hearing is an R&B-leaning She Wants Revenge.
The press I've read is kinda hysterical.
i honestly have no idea how How to dress Well is connected to this or r'n'b in the least, besides the guy namedropping keith sweat every other question.
Thank you, jaxon.
― Andy K, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 20:13 (fourteen years ago)
sounds kinda junior boysy to me eh
― nultimate fighting champ (cozen), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 21:03 (fourteen years ago)
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:09 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lol this is like the sexy photoes thread
s0 st1ff
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 21:09 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
no but I remember hearing about them
what's good?
― dayo, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 23:37 (fourteen years ago)
the s/t one and "motion to rejoin" are both awesome
i only bring it up in this thread because it strips down/smokes out folky bluesy shit and favors repetition over "SONIC HOOKS"
Brightblack Morning Light ... WTF?
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:00 (fourteen years ago)
Just listened to the Trey Songzzzzzz album. There was nothing particularly wrong with it, just not that many things extraordinarily right with it. I dug Red Lipstick and Unfortunate and Unusual, but felt the rest was pretty generic and clinical. Paint by numbers radio pop. Nothing too adventurous. lot of r.Kelly rips and MJ bridges. The gloss and sheen make the emotion feel fake.
I like dirt and mistakes and imperfect singing and lack of hooks. And I like brightblack morning light.
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:12 (fourteen years ago)
And I dig this moody slowjam. Did this ever break outside the bay area? Deej said a while back, "with a name like erk tha jerk he probably won't". Ha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSbVOpKq9OI
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:18 (fourteen years ago)
A friend whose opinions about contemporary R&B I trust just sent this to me, so I'm downloading it as I type. Reassuring, though, to see that we're all reverting to type here.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:27 (fourteen years ago)
How To Dress Well?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:28 (fourteen years ago)
lol read the thread first
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:53 (fourteen years ago)
"Wicked Games" is closer to Hall & Oates than The-Dream: asshole pleading for sympathy.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 00:56 (fourteen years ago)
The sampler EP doing the rounds for about a year and a half before the album came out was much more 2-step based, including with stuff that basically sounded like Horsepower Productions et al - mainly original member Johnny Dark's influence I think.
The "R&B for Pitchfork" line - as distinct from other non-"pitchfork" (but in practice still hyped by pitchfork) but non-R&B appropriations of R&B seems to come down to the sense of purpose or function implied by context.
I've made joking claims before that all the R&B influenced post-dubstep that lex likes is basically the UK version of "How To Dress Well", and he has admirably not risen to the bait. The underlying implication of the joke is that these are all "indie" uses of R&B.
I assume Lex perceives a crucial difference on the basis that even (what I would call, I'm sure he wouldn't) the "indie" end of dance music still has a commitment to an idea of dance functionalism, a nominal belief that this music is designed to be deployed in public, to be responded to physically.
Whereas How To Dress Well and The Weekend share an assumed context of "isolationist" listening: you and your computer effectively. Even if in practice the music is 90% consumed in that matter regardless. Of course lots of people listen to Trey Songz at their computers as well, and it can work really well in that context too (or rather, Trey can do both "Bottoms Up" and "Unfortunate").
So you could say that the argument is less about "realness" and more about whether there is any value in producing music whose "point" seems to be to reduce the functionality or the context-suitability of its source material. I think there is value in this, but am sympathetic to lex's position to the extent that I think that critically the value of this is overstated and over-represented.
Funnily enough the real prototype for lex's position here is not deej and goonery but vahid and Kompakt "soft sad techno" - vahid objected to the amount of attention given to this kind of music because it was effectively (in his opinion) indie kids sitting at computers sighing over mood and atmosphere (I'm am obviously being incredibly reductionist w/r/t vahid's opinion but this post is getting long enough already).
And people would respond and say: "but... I go out and dance to this stuff at raves too!"
But, I think, for Vahid, the sense was that the indieness of "soft sad techno" as an idea infected even the music's actual dancefloor existence. And of course the underlying issue is the privileging of that music over and above stuff only liked by clubbers.
So, always, even the fairly neutral judgments, come down to whether the music in question is reflective of some kind of broader fight going on.
Like, I think Junior Boys emerged at a time when entirely non-dancefloor appropriations of modern dance music (as opposed to, say, disco-punk revivalism) was at a low ebb, so there was nothing particularly "threatening" about critics loving them unless you took the Vahid line (can't remember what he thought of them actually). Also 2-step had died already so there was nothing "at stake" in their appropriations (beyond the tardiness of enthused critics obv).
Whereas now they might seem like an extension of James Blake et al and I can well imagine people hating them on that kind of basis.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 01:50 (fourteen years ago)
this, really. this is what I secretly suspect is one of lex's measuring sticks - and it'd be interesting to talk about the function of music, the context & environment of listening and how that affects your reaction to music. like I've more than once seen j0rd or others deploy the "this pop song was pretty meh but after I heard it all over the place it really sunk in". see also: "the song that feels like summer"
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 01:58 (fourteen years ago)
booming post btw xp
I had a not dissimilar argument last fall when a couple of friends said Taylor Swift was the only "country artist they liked. Their constricted notion of what was acceptable country clashed with my constricted notion of what "country" signified as a genre. Certainly James Blake, Junior Boys, Burial, et al inspired lots of snickers from yours truly about how they wedded beatz to indie sensibilities. After all these months I'm thinking maybe I'm wrong.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 01:58 (fourteen years ago)
Whereas How To Dress Well and The Weekend share an assumed context of "isolationist" listening: you and your computer effectively
a) is this true b) what r&b is not 'isolationist' by your measure?
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 01:59 (fourteen years ago)
Certainly it's more troublesome for me to explain how How To Dress Well is not R&B than explaining how Keyshia Cole IS.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:01 (fourteen years ago)
also tim you make your argument about functionality w/r/t dance music, but then you compare that functionality to how to dress well/weeknd, which as lamp points out code as R&B - so there's a little bit of goalpost shifting in, unless I've misunderstood your post (which I probably have)
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:06 (fourteen years ago)
― jaxon, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:12 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
not exactly running to TS's defense here, can't fault you for not loving that record. but i feel like you're laying out a lot of unspoken biases here that lead people to only listen to 'arty' sorta-R&B but not any mainstream R&B more contemporary than, like, Aaliyah. imo even the most modern hip hop-influence R&B is still very much about emotion and storytelling and vocal performances, it CAN be sonically unique or adventurous but if you show up hoping primarily for that or being turned off by studio polish or an emphasis on radio-friendly hooks yeah of course you're going to get bored and go back to blogsoul.
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:18 (fourteen years ago)
The gloss and sheen make the emotion feel fake.
waht
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:19 (fourteen years ago)
Trey embellishing every fucking word with unnecessary emphatic vibrato is what makes the emotions in his music come off insincere ftr
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:23 (fourteen years ago)
fwiw vahids argument there figures heavily into deej goonery (lol @ this coinage) ha
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:24 (fourteen years ago)
fyi jaxon i def wouldnt rep for that whole LP, although you highlighted pretty much my fav tracks. You should probably check out Trey's "Anticipation" mixtape that came out a year or so before it. Its not perfect but there are def some weird / interesting production choices, really spacey/sparse R&B along the lines of 'unfortunate' (although maybe nothing as good as that song)
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:27 (fourteen years ago)
^^^^ this. The gloss has nothing to do with it.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:27 (fourteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEQoNAMeVgY
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:31 (fourteen years ago)
love that mixtape
imo even the most modern hip hop-influence R&B is still very much about emotion and storytelling and vocal performances
as much as its a) dumb and b) a false binary i still kinda like my idea upthread that a lot of this argument is about narrative vs. emotive styles of music & whether certain genres are inherently wedded to one type of music or the other. i guess this sorta ties into tim's stuff about the functional use of music & how (for me) 'narrative' music is focused both lyrically & musically on movement & structure
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:33 (fourteen years ago)
Well, I could argue that imo even the most modern hip hop-influence R&B country is still very much about emotion and storytelling and vocal performances, no?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:35 (fourteen years ago)
Narrative writing remains a hallmark of country.
The gloss has nothing to do with it.
"Gloss" can still be used appropriately as a pejorative, i.e. "that keyboard part is just gloss," meaning it's not really very good and it's just there to give a sense of a particular production quality.
― timellison, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:38 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i'm not saying that r&b can't be recontextualised - as i think i posted on tumblr, that nguzunguzu mix doing the rounds is a really incredible example of how it can be (and another reason to hate on the attention that the weeknd are getting) - ditto kingdom's r&b samples and many others. but really the trick of dumping a sped-up r&b sample into a post-dubstep track is itself getting pretty old at this point, you can always hear when people are doing it in a rote or uninspired way - it's a qualitative difference.
but i feel like you're laying out a lot of unspoken biases here that lead people to only listen to 'arty' sorta-R&B but not any mainstream R&B more contemporary than, like, Aaliyah
yeah this is otm - and with this in mind how is it possible NOT to be kind of angry at "arty" sorta-r&b being written up as though it was an amazing new direction for the genre?
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:41 (fourteen years ago)
Sure -- I listened to Bowie's Never Let Me Down a couple of hours ago; talk about redundant keyboard tinkles. But "gloss" as jaxon's defining it isn't what cripples Trey's recordings to my ears, and maybe I'm reading him enough but his statement implied that capital-G-gloss is a perennial problem.
xpost
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:43 (fourteen years ago)
really i think the superior "proper" r&b version of the weeknd isn't trey songz - as much as i'm fond of him he's not exactly a standout of the genre except by default - it's the diddy/dirty money remix mixtape
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:43 (fourteen years ago)
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:35 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:35 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
what's your point?
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:48 (fourteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvAi2L3KgVw
― Andy K, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:48 (fourteen years ago)
Sorry
the trey songz anticipation tape does actually remind me a lot of what this sounds like its going for, maybe slightly more traditional & interested in making unusual choices but tighter in songwriting & extremely similar in mood
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:52 (fourteen years ago)
Just listened to the Trey Songzzzzzz album. There was nothing particularly wrong with it, just not that many things extraordinarily right with it. I dug Red Lipstick and Unfortunate and Unusual, but felt the rest was pretty generic and clinical. Paint by numbers radio pop. Nothing too adventurous. lot of r.Kelly rips and MJ bridges. The gloss and sheen make the emotion feel fake.I like dirt and mistakes and imperfect singing and lack of hooks. And I like brightblack morning light.― jaxon, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:12 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmarknot exactly running to TS's defense here, can't fault you for not loving that record. but i feel like you're laying out a lot of unspoken biases here that lead people to only listen to 'arty' sorta-R&B but not any mainstream R&B more contemporary than, like, Aaliyah. imo even the most modern hip hop-influence R&B is still very much about emotion and storytelling and vocal performances, it CAN be sonically unique or adventurous but if you show up hoping primarily for that or being turned off by studio polish or an emphasis on radio-friendly hooks yeah of course you're going to get bored and go back to blogsoul.
what's wrong with having these biases though
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:54 (fourteen years ago)
yeah thats p otm
i think he was responding to my post
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:54 (fourteen years ago)
nothing necessarily inherently wrong with them, but when i refer to them as "unspoken biases" i'm saying that people are making a lot of placeholder arguments or focusing on side issues instead of admitting to or even being aware of those biases.
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:56 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:54 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
nothing which is why i dont have a problem w/ dude liking this record, its the critical hosannas greeting it that are absurd
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:57 (fourteen years ago)
My point: narrative is a characteristic of country more than R&B. But, like I said a while ago, caring about genre restrictions is kinda quaint, and I'm backing away from it.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:57 (fourteen years ago)
jaxon has been pretty open about admitting that his like for the weeknd is about the 'indie' production - what other unspoken biases are there
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:58 (fourteen years ago)
sure but there's not actually any point in bringing that up. i didn't say R&B is the MOST narrative-driven genre or the only one, it's one of many. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 02:59 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:58 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark
the unspoken message i get out of conversations like this is kind of like "I really like R&B or the IDEA of R&B, but I'm only going to sit down with an album of it if it's something outside the major label system that gets blog hype as being especially weird or creative"
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:01 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:58 AM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
no one was telling him hes wrong for liking this stuff for that reason. biases tho are just biases, not rules, which is why when i was making my case against this i sorta sidestepped that ... i like a lot of the qualities he likes in older records too, & he & i have exchanged links/thoughts abt that stuff before, i just think that this misses out on a lot of stuff that he & i usually dig mutually
an example is sa ra, who i liked (albeit somewhat intermittently) but they fit in w/ a whole scene of post-dilla DJs that I used to be into, whereas this def feels more like 'listening' R&B TIm was talking abt, & sa-ra also just seemed to be weirder / more interesting in pushing stuff. as far as i can tell the only 'boundaries' being pushed in this record is stuff like, hmm, you got indie in my R&B / R&B in my indie
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:02 (fourteen years ago)
w/ the exception of the few creative ideas i thought they had that they couldnt really tie together into a Great Song package
ennh this is a reach, i think
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:06 (fourteen years ago)
well, to put it another way -- mainstream R&B is loaded with a lot of pageantry and theatricality with all these beautiful people showboating with their big voices -- that's something you can buy into as a fan of the music and let it feed into your appreciation of it, but it's not that hard to ignore either if you'd rather just put on an album and zone out. maybe some people are so averse to it that they only want to hear R&B if there's some 'faceless' or 'introspective' aspect to the artist or their sound that makes it seem less showbiz.
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:08 (fourteen years ago)
how would you define the indie love for Janelle Monae?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:12 (fourteen years ago)
She lives for the pageantry.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:13 (fourteen years ago)
i get a feel from dayo & lamp's posts as if they feel that pro-weeknd folks are getting unfairly dismissed or something, which, well, you can come up w/ a justification for basically anything so anyone who is the hater on a record in an ilx thread is gonna end up on the defensive, but in reality there's a gigantic amount of pro-Weeknd feeling & not really many people who think it kind of sucks & is overrated in the crit circles we run in or discuss on ilx. when these dudes are performing on late night talk shows & getting featured out of proportion to their actual sales or popularity yet again, its just going to be more oppressive for those of us who think they're kind of an overrated group who just happen to be good at marketing. so, keep in mind that its not like you're going to lose in the long run. the 'right people' seem to like this band
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:13 (fourteen years ago)
i'm not saying there's an either/or dichotomy of only big glitzy Beyonce-type stars and only indie mystique collectives like The Weeknd -- obviously there are artists like Janelle Monae that are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, or can't really be usefully measured on that spectrum at all
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:15 (fourteen years ago)
and really, i was overly dismissive of lex considering i more or less agree w/ his overarching point, which is that this group is not particularly great or important but they're quirky, which means a lot to critics right now in general
its something ive been wrestling w/ in other areas of music as well -- it seems like theres a disproportionate amount of media attention for 'certain kinds' of acts that is based on some fantastical notion of perceived significance that seems heavily inflated relative to musical accomplishments, but that ends up becoming 'true' through sheer force of will on behalf of influential people
imo
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:16 (fourteen years ago)
and really, i was overly dismissive of lex considering i more or less agree w/ his overarching point, which is that this group is not particularly great or important but they're quirky, which means a lot to critics right now in generalits something ive been wrestling w/ in other areas of music as well -- it seems like theres a disproportionate amount of media attention for 'certain kinds' of acts that is based on some fantastical notion of perceived significance that seems heavily inflated relative to musical accomplishments, but that ends up becoming 'true' through sheer force of will on behalf of influential peopleimo
lol isn't this basically how 'buzz' works
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:20 (fourteen years ago)
yeah its more pronounced now that sales dont force media dudes to go 'i guess we should probably be paying attention to this artist who just went platinum without us paying attention."
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:22 (fourteen years ago)
well i feel like on ilm theres this way of seeing this divide i guess first of all as a divide & the second of all abt a bunch of contextual or extramusical things (dancing vs not-dancing, indie vs pop, communal vs personal, labels vs blogs) when i think its at root something abt the emotional content of the music itself & the structural/mechanical techniques that are used to 'get at' these emotions.
ugh i mean i guess im just repeating my same stupid points over & over here but weeknd dudes are all abt 'pageantry and theatricality' theyre just using it in service of a different emotional sensibility. thats why the whole indie in yr r&b thing is just... idk like an alien way of considering the issue unless you think r&b is strictly abt one kind of listening/engagement
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:23 (fourteen years ago)
i think a lot of people kind of want to listen to only exceptional music, as in things that are the exception to the rule or stand out from their genre, so anything that gets the weird/bold/arty tag gets a lot of attention that's ultimately a little divorced from how good or enjoyable it actually is. i totally understand that instinct, because when i was 14 the only jazz i was interested in was Sun Ra and the only classical i was interested in was The Rite Of Spring because that was what i'd heard was the OUT THERE STUFF, and now probably because of that i regard that kind of impulse as often simpleminded and immature.
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:24 (fourteen years ago)
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:23 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thats the thing dude, i think R&B is about a multitude of kinds of listening/engagement. i just dont think that what this is doing is novel w/in that context
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:29 (fourteen years ago)
ftr i was referring to 'pageantry and theatricality' as far as non-musical stuff, like how Trey Songz performing shirtless is as big a part of his popularity as his songs, or Mary J. Blige having this autobiographical narrative running through her whole career, things that are sidestepped by a group who obscure their identities or don't appear in record artwork/videos.
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:34 (fourteen years ago)
― some dude, Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:24 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah tim's talked about this a lot (and this is a better way of putting it than i did) but i think there's something really great about a flawlessly executed classic archetype sometimes, and that those songs do tend to be heavily ignored. its a lot of what i like about the goon thread is it at least seems to work at creating a context where rap doesnt have to stand out to people who dont listen to rap to be considered seriously as good music
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:41 (fourteen years ago)
Re: Janelle:
There is a difference between pageantry received as being expressive of the individual artist and the pageantry received as genre formalism.
See also why many people can check for Kanye and Andre 3000 but complain about other rap being overblown or fantastical or not realistic.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 03:49 (fourteen years ago)
Whereas How To Dress Well and The Weekend share an assumed context of "isolationist" listening: you and your computer effectivelya) is this true b) what r&b is not 'isolationist' by your measure?
I was talking about the way in which the music is presented and talked about. None of this stuff is "true".
I was comparing the functionality or lack thereof in extra-genre uses of R&B - the comparison between how dance music (however indiefied) does it and how whatver we call this stuff does it. A listener's commitment to music as a public rather than private experience can be rooted in a bias towards pretty much any genre - e.g. see Carducci on rock, people talking about the importance of live jazz, live classical, people talking about the importance of festivals, whether stuff has street buzz in rap et al, people talking about the importance of pop radio.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 04:11 (fourteen years ago)
The bottom line for me is that The Weeknd just doesn't work at the moment. It sounds slopy, half-baked and jumps on too many trends too obviously to get on board with right now. Thats what I mean when I say they're just playing dress up at the moment. There is some tallent there no doubt but it needs to grow into its own thing big time or its pretty pointless, to me at least.
I like a load of R&B impressions, its influence is all over a load of dance music I love right now and always has been tbh its like a bread and butter dance meme and has been since disco so I'm not against The Weeknd as an idea they just don't pull it off. They will prob get too much hype off p4k, this forum and the like now and not get chance to grow into their sound as well. They sound like they shouldn't have been picked up yet, they need a load more time before they find their feet imo.
― jimitheexploder, Thursday, 24 March 2011 04:26 (fourteen years ago)
I do think the current aesthetic valorisation of blurriness has tended to result in people excusing themselves for not bothering to polish their material more. But the problem is definitely broader than p4k-soul.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 07:58 (fourteen years ago)
it seems like theres a disproportionate amount of media attention for 'certain kinds' of acts that is based on some fantastical notion of perceived significance that seems heavily inflated relative to musical accomplishments, but that ends up becoming 'true' through sheer force of will on behalf of influential people
this is basically my #1 beef - i think the weeknd suck but after a while that just comes down to taste - it's the fact that i seem to have to read so fucking much about an act LIKE THEM when acts LIKE KANDI - u can frame that divide into fake/real r&b if u want, and replace kandi w/whomever - get pretty much zero column inches
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 09:05 (fourteen years ago)
to further fan the flames I present to you, their cover art
http://pigeonsandplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/TheWeeknd_HouseOfBalloons.jpg
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 11:03 (fourteen years ago)
itt deej and lex get mad at tastemakers
lol @ ghost box+last nights party
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 11:11 (fourteen years ago)
btw if you like the weeknd you should check out the second jeremih album
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:03 (fourteen years ago)
jeremih is a way better comp than trey songz
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:13 (fourteen years ago)
I had never actually heard of Kandi before this thread but having Googled her I think Lex is glossing over the issue of good old fashioned AGEISM in her (and Marsha's) music being overlooked.
Thing is, this happens in indie as well - the internet is full of indie kids screaming at the sky because the indie music they love is being critically overlooked in favour of the Vaccines or Grizzly Bear or whoever.
Genres aren't monoliths for a reason and personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country, and the more female-coded end of indie for that matter) but ppl shouldn't really presume to be speaking for or of the entire genre when doing so - cf NME writers talking about "dance music" in 2007 with exclusive reference to Justice and Simian Mobile Disco.
Dan comparing The Weeknd to the Creep EP is the first thing that's made me want to listen to this actually.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:17 (fourteen years ago)
Not having home internet is really starting to fuck with my listening habits incidentally.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:18 (fourteen years ago)
the first one is better though!
personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country
i think i'd be wary of doing it if the only bit of country i engaged with was the one that every other critic was, or if i was framing the country artists i liked as bold new directions for the genre. as it is, taylor swift's huge enough to be assessed as a pop star, and as for sunny sweeney, hardly anyone's talking about her at all.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:22 (fourteen years ago)
and i understand ageism being the reason kandi and marsha aren't sold as (or selling like) Hot New Pop Stars, but the critical press covers tons of old people and it shouldn't be an excuse anyway
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:24 (fourteen years ago)
/btw if you like the weeknd you should check out the second jeremih album/the first one is better though!/personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country/i think i'd be wary of doing it if the only bit of country i engaged with was the one that every other critic was, or if i was framing the country artists i liked as bold new directions for the genre. as it is, taylor swift's huge enough to be assessed as a pop star, and as for sunny sweeney, hardly anyone's talking about her at all.
/personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country/
yah but the first one is more peaky, second has a more even feel
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:29 (fourteen years ago)
What is the Creep EP?
― Number None, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:31 (fourteen years ago)
I think this is partly a structural problem with r&b really, it's so commercially setup that only a very small proportion of artists have any visibility (critically or otherwise) at any given time. And while r&b isn't really bothered with critical consensus or even courting it really it does mean that artists like Dawn Richard or K. Michelle (or even Electrik Red) just fade into the background unless there are people prepared to heavily rep for them. It doesn't feel like it benefits from the internet and mixtape culture in the same was as hip-hop does at all, even though there's no reason why it shouldn't.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:31 (fourteen years ago)
number none: creep ft. romy xx - days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkwLqhUKdk
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:33 (fourteen years ago)
Oh yeah, i just thought it was a single rather than an EP.
― Number None, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:34 (fourteen years ago)
this is true - what's depressing is how few people really go all out to rep for less-known r&b artists. especially critics - this is what a critic's job should be!
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:35 (fourteen years ago)
xp it is an ep, with some good remixes. their next single features nina sky, btw. actually creep are another good example of recontextualised r&b that i really love.
still tho weeknd are p obv going for a mood that is p distinct from all these other artists you are mentioning itt so
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:35 (fourteen years ago)
^ why does this point get missed. lex it seems like you still feel that they're going for a certain mood + failing but i dont think thats it
― just sayin, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:39 (fourteen years ago)
Lex's point seems to be "how dare critics value this mood over all the others" but I still think that's an unfair caricature especially of the people in this thread.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:40 (fourteen years ago)
that's a shifting-the-goalposts argument though, it could be applied to p much anything, ever. "oh they're not TRYING to do that!"
what i'm reacting to: they get write-ups, across the board, that tie them to r&b, and in many cases are held up as an example of where r&b as a genre should be going. so yeah i think it's fair to assess them on what r&b's genre values are. but also taking into account that they're not trad r&b, it's also fair to compare them to other non-r&b acts recontextualising the genre.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:43 (fourteen years ago)
ANYWAY i am actually going to do an article about this now :)
ok this part - 'held up as an example of where r&b as a genre should be going'
i havent seen these writeups?
― just sayin, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:44 (fourteen years ago)
me neither, they are gen being received as chillwave appropriating rnb and i think the rnb side of their side is in gen being played way down.
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:47 (fourteen years ago)
of their sound
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:48 (fourteen years ago)
the terrible sean fennessey piece linked upthread
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:48 (fourteen years ago)
also i've been criticising this for being unremarkable by CHILLWAVE standards as well as r&b
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:49 (fourteen years ago)
Yeah you're more of a Neon Indian man.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 12:50 (fourteen years ago)
yes you are clearly a massive chillwave fan
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:00 (fourteen years ago)
i don't have any investment in chillwave as a thing but people have kept saying that a lot of the UK bass music i like is chillwavey - i don't mind if it is or isn't
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:04 (fourteen years ago)
That stuff is chillwavey in the way that Kompakt is chillwavey, ie people are just talking nonsense based on vague sonic signifiers rather than function, scene or anything else.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:07 (fourteen years ago)
so what you're saying is that you like chillwave from the vantage point of other critical discourses?
― ico, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:09 (fourteen years ago)
he likes chillwave that is actually what people in other genres are making, those people being people who would make chillwave if they weren't in other genres.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:20 (fourteen years ago)
Souljazz's 'Rapegaze 2: The Dallas - London Connection' has a decent explanation in the liner notes.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:21 (fourteen years ago)
the weather is very nice
― LocalGarda, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:22 (fourteen years ago)
What I was getting at is that "OMG this is chillwave" is the sort of sub-Whiney line people take when they have no idea about the genre in question but a stupid compulsion to have an opinion about it nonetheless.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:23 (fourteen years ago)
Might get an ice-cream at lunchtime though.
I dunno, where does chillwave end anyway? Are Forest Swords chillwave? Creep?
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:25 (fourteen years ago)
I don't think "Days" is particularly R&B-ish? When I'm comparing it to The Weeknd songs I'm listening to, I'm thinking more about sound palette than execution; the singer for The Weeknd sounds too much in the Chris Brown/Ne-Yo/Raphael Saddiq being lazy vein to totally dismiss R&B influence upon their sound so I don't really get some of Lex's objections.
Also maybe I am granting more credit than is due because of how disappointing I found that Jamie XX/GSH album, which is currently my Event Zero for "music that is too sloppy to pull off what I think it's trying to do".
― ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:28 (fourteen years ago)
CHILLWAVE CONTINUUM
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:31 (fourteen years ago)
the ch'uum, as it is referred to at conferences all over england.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 13:40 (fourteen years ago)
― ico, Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:13 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
have u heard 'anticipation'? i think its iciness is a lot closer to what this is aiming for
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 14:28 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:03 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
who's mad?
im scoffing disdainfully @ them
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 14:35 (fourteen years ago)
I've listened to this now and much of it sonically is real 1998 arse-end of trip-hop stuff. Has he sung over the Sneaker Pimps yet?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 24 March 2011 14:56 (fourteen years ago)
i too was thinking along those lines Matt, especially Curvatia by SpaceK.
[granted i haven't heard that album in years and need to dig it out to see if there is a connection .. ]
― mark e, Thursday, 24 March 2011 15:06 (fourteen years ago)
still tho weeknd are p obv going for a mood that is p distinct from all these other artists you are mentioning itt so― ico, Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:35 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink^ why does this point get missed. lex it seems like you still feel that they're going for a certain mood + failing but i dont think thats it― just sayin, Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:39 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
― ico, Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:35 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― just sayin, Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:39 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
haha yeah I love how lex is all sputtering "b-b-b-but you should listen to marsha ambrosius!!!' when marsha ambrosius sounds nothing like this
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 15:26 (fourteen years ago)
anyway I just relistened to the second jeremih album and it's like a really good version of this album except it came out first
also you should skip the track with 50 on it
― dayo, Thursday, 24 March 2011 15:27 (fourteen years ago)
i never heard the second jeremih....to spotify i go.
― Ask Nult What Your Country Can Do For You (Local Garda), Thursday, 24 March 2011 15:41 (fourteen years ago)
it's great!
― goole, Thursday, 24 March 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)
some good points here: http://blatantineptitude.blogspot.com/2011/03/jj-abrams-ication-of-music-on-web.html
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 16:56 (fourteen years ago)
version of "The Morning" doesnt have the slo-mo vocal effect abused by salemi liked the old version but i like this version too― gr8080, Monday, March 21, 2011 8:48 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lolling that salem is ref point, not dj screw
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 18:18 (fourteen years ago)
the beats remind me of this the-dream/santogold track which i love and still listen to a lot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWT_6ftriU
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 24 March 2011 18:24 (fourteen years ago)
so many posts since last night, it's almost too hard to respond to everything. i know this post is gonna come off a bit defensive but glad people aren't ganging up on me. i don't nec wanna be the strawman for 'indie' 'blog reader' who only listens to something if it's weird. but i might as well accept parts of it even though i dislike indie rock and i don't read blogs. i've always liked 'the exception to the rule' music. it's almost a joke now. i'm feeling this bette midler house track. but i'm so deep in the beardy/balearic/cosmic record collecting scene where i'm always on the lookout for a funky track by a generally non-funky musician. throw a synth on it™ and i'm in heaven. disco track by a rock musician. boom. popstar records in africa or african musician records in france. oh yeah. i'm also sorta ADD in my music tastes. i get so into some genre until i feel i've squeezed the life out of them then i'm onto the next one. so it's not that i'm like this outsider to r'n'b. i've been listening to it on and off since elementary school. and it's not like i have an aversion to radio pop. it's not the major label feeling that i didn't like about trey songz. that gloss has nothing to do with being on a major label. i love tons of major label stuff. there are tons of HUGE acts that can do interesting things. beyonce, rihanna, wayne (sorry guys). they can have a song on the radio a billion times and it still sounds interesting. even some BEP. i don't hate on those guys. but there really was a feeling on the TS album that he was reading from a script of cliched phrases of what an r'n'b loverman would say to his lady. i've since listened to the How To Dress Well & The Dream albums, trying to do a lil catch up on 'real' and 'not real' r'n'b. HTDW was my least favorite out of all this. i said i liked sloppy, but this was taking it too far. i liked the parts of it that were the least "soulful" i guess, but when he started singing over new jack loops w/noise on top. meh. the dream album was fantastic. everything about it, from the drum programming to the synths and his singing voice and production. there was dirt and noise in stuff. (i coulda done w/o that florida university song though, and wish cee lo didn't cover it). anyways, glad a thread like this has come along for me to spend some time w/different music. next up is frank ocean (not looking forward to it tbh) and jerimih's second album.
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
i can't rate the dream highly enough...i have listened to love king more than any other lp of the last few years.
― Ask Nult What Your Country Can Do For You (Local Garda), Thursday, 24 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
curious to hear what you think of the frank ocean record, jaxon.
― adult music person (Jordan), Thursday, 24 March 2011 19:40 (fourteen years ago)
me too
― frogbsclovetofu (cozen), Thursday, 24 March 2011 20:18 (fourteen years ago)
the unspoken message i get out of conversations like this is kind of like "I really like R&B or the IDEA of R&B, but I'm only going to sit down with an album of it if it's something outside the major label system that gets blog hype as being especially weird or creative"― some dude, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― some dude, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
and really, i was overly dismissive of lex considering i more or less agree w/ his overarching point, which is that this group is not particularly great or important but they're quirky, which means a lot to critics right now in generalits something ive been wrestling w/ in other areas of music as well -- it seems like theres a disproportionate amount of media attention for 'certain kinds' of acts that is based on some fantastical notion of perceived significance that seems heavily inflated relative to musical accomplishments, but that ends up becoming 'true' through sheer force of will on behalf of influential peopleimo― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
not to give the impression that i don't value music crit or pay attention to trends in crit circles, but i think not being a critic myself and just being a guy who likes music and occasionally gets paid to DJ gives me the luxury to not give a shit about this stuff?
also, this was touched on upthread wrt 'pageantry and theatricality', but pop music has always been about more than faceless recorded music. image and quirk and mythos arent't unfortunate byproducts of pop music, they're part of its makeup. there's absolutely nothing wrong with liking the weeknd because of a quirky aesthetic.
btw it should go w/o saying i'm pretty much in the same boat as jaxon taste-wise.
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:13 (fourteen years ago)
the thing abt 'quirkiness' is only really addressed at other critics / journalists writing about how 'important' this is. its not addressed at people who just like the music, man. obviously my taste heavily overlaps w/ yours & jaxon's when it comes to this kind of stuff, but there is a commonality to all the stuff the three of us have ever talked about, which is that we all think the songs are good, right? like, you want to listen to them over & over? i know you like these, but for me these just arent good songs on the level of, like, former porn stars singing about 'flying like an eagle' or eartha kitt's disco record -- both of which are campy, but not, like, constructed sloppily as an affect. they both function to me the way great songs are supposed to function. that they are weird/interesting is a bonus.
anyway this is where it comes to an issue of taste -- i just wanted to be clear where my lines are w/ this
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:20 (fourteen years ago)
― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:32 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:35 (fourteen years ago)
i can't tell if you're flipping my argument on me on purpose or what but i was saying that 'anonymous' anti-image stuff like The Weeknd, while certainly shrewdly mythology-building in its own right, is kind of a way of hooking people who are turned off by more star/persona-driven R&B that's more overtly about dramatic videos and big melismatic vocal performances.
― some dude, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:39 (fourteen years ago)
i dont know if i was flipping it on you or not but i was saying that image is part of it no matter what, and some ppl like the jj-abrams-ication image
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:44 (fourteen years ago)
you cant be "anti-image" i guess is what i was saying, there's no such thing
haven't listened to them, but on a scale of 1 - 10, how #based is this band?
― Bleeqwot the Chef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:45 (fourteen years ago)
i just wrote something a little unsatisfying about this, but ... there's always the impulse to discuss this stuff on the level of media, perceived coolness, and what's "okay to like" -- what seems much harder for people to talk about is, like, what specific difference makes this intriguing to certain listeners in a way mainstream r&b is not? I'm not discounting the effect of media, or the air of cool, or tribal affiliation, but that feels minor: this record does concrete things differently than mainstream r&b I like just as much or better, and that sticks out pretty clearly if i, say listen to it during commercials on 106&park. production sensibility, emotional effect, sense of persona -- I don't even know that they're pointedly "weird" so much as just a slightly different thing. ("weird" depends where you're coming from, I guess; like many people, I enjoy r&b and beach house both, so this doesn't exactly jar!) it might be hard to articulate, but it seems easy to hear concrete choices here that will be inviting to one audience rather than another.
it actually seems to me that it would be productive if, instead of worrying much about audience-crossing and such, we considered it a GOOD thing for acts to stake out weird middle stances between styles and methods we're used to, just to open out the field and see what develops!
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:47 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:35 (10 minutes ago) Permalink
tbf this was in response to you saying that this music made u think of sex & weed & dismissing sade as old woman music
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:47 (fourteen years ago)
man grady you really think sade is old woman music
― max, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:47 (fourteen years ago)
hey nitsuh i guess what intrigues me about it would be, is this middle-ground artist actually appealing to both audiences, or are they just one audience's artist in the end, and if they end up appealing to both audiences, is it in the same way jay-z hates rap but loves coldplay cliche of ilx yore
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:50 (fourteen years ago)
does that make sense
like, what is the *social effect* of this sonic blending
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:51 (fourteen years ago)
better teachers in inner city schools
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:54 (fourteen years ago)
ha
jumping off that joke i have a friend who teaches in inner city schools & bless her heart she tries to push indie rap on her kids who are big gucci / waka heads and its just, like, the cornier end of cliche'd 'deep' indie rap & shes like 'they just wont listen to me!' & i want to break it down & be like 'youre fundamentally misunderstanding the way rap functions' but then i think i would seem mean so like most of my music nerdery i restrict it to ilx
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:57 (fourteen years ago)
friend of friend remixed. totally accentuating the burial aspects: http://soundcloud.com/vin-sol/what-you-need
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:59 (fourteen years ago)
D, i'm not saying they get both audiences -- seems really rare that anyone manages that. but there are simple, obvious, audible, above-anyone's-cynicism REASONS for which audience goes for it, not just "who said it was cool," right? it's not solely translating or marketing something for a new audience: it winds up actually staking out some sonic and emotional space that's just a little "different." which is cool! even if it sucks, the mere fact of opening up a few extra spaces seems nice to me. not for social effects, but just for musical ones. (though maybe those can become social ones down the road.)
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:00 (fourteen years ago)
ok yeah that seems generally true & i agree
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:01 (fourteen years ago)
not when the middle stances are privileged so heavily over the original styles and methods
or like one of em anyway
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:02 (fourteen years ago)
This is correct as far as it goes: the problem is that as a critical community we are having increasing difficulty identifying music that stakes out "weird middle stances" without the kind of signifiers of indie-friendly audience-crossing quirk that some listeners are objecting to here.*
This kind of thing is something we recognise full well in politics, and recognise as being important to how politics functions: the way in which particular rituals, affectations, phrases, ideas and allegiances capture the field of broad principles that everyone agrees in the abstract are good.
This is my perennial complaint: "weird middle stances" happen all the time well within the confounds of "generic" (in both senses of the word) music but the more critics try to adopt a kind of omniscient across-all-genres faux-objectivism the harder it is for them to recognise what is of interest within genre. The unsurprising irony of course is that critically the exception to this rule is indie rock itself, wherein actually generic (again in both senses of the word) music still can be celebrated insofar as the unspoken assumption that indie in and of itself is a "weird middle stance" confers legitimacy on even its most rote manifestations.
(*the massive caveat being that each and every one of us here is guilty of this in some area of music - but the point here is not the awfulness of individual instances of people doing this kind of thing, but the limiting effect of our entire critical discourse becoming premised on it)
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:02 (fourteen years ago)
just yesterday i was thinking "damn i wish i could throw up the nabisco signal over the weeknd thread"
:D
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:02 (fourteen years ago)
give me a break, dude.
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:03 (fourteen years ago)
No, lex is right. I've seen this a lot with listeners the last couple of years.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:05 (fourteen years ago)
im going to backpedal slightly & say tim otm lol
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:05 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i dont think he is, even a little, but i guess this comes down to how aware you are of the 'critical community' & how you perceive it
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:07 (fourteen years ago)
lex, how many times have people called you geir?
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:08 (fourteen years ago)
yeah otm
writing this r&b/weeknd column at the moment and there's so much interesting stuff happening in r&b right now - it's been a beleaguered genre commercially of late, but in the past few months alone you've got two of its biggest stars explicitly defining it on record - r kelly singing "i wanna bring the love songs back to the radio" and diddy's intro to the r&b remix of "yeah yeah you would" - like they're pretty much staking something on this idea of "real", traditional r&b as something that's important to keep alive. and the career arcs of how kandi and dawn richard have wound up making some of the best r&b of the year are fascinating in themselves. and then that timothy bloom video that dropped out of nowhere and pretty much blew the r&b community away.
against this backdrop how the fuck do you even write a column purportedly about r&b and focus on the weeknd.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:11 (fourteen years ago)
*tim otm
haha
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:12 (fourteen years ago)
lex, I'm curious to learn what you think of the new El Debarge record, my favorite "trad" R&B record of the last six months. Clearly he's following the classicist route (which he helped invent and define for R. Kelly and Ne-Yo).
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:13 (fourteen years ago)
i think lex has a point but the thing he should realize is that 'middle stances' being privileged over original styles isn't something that just happens to rap or r&b in the pitchfork universe -- it also happens to traditional indie music that ppl we would call squares like -- i think nabisco sorta wrestled w/ this sort of thing in his male bonding review from last year -- 'how do you make a plain r&b record appealing to people that are head over heels for the weekend' is the same as 'how do you make the make the male bonding record appealing to people that are head over heels for sleigh bells' -- it's something all formalists have to deal w/ now
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:14 (fourteen years ago)
i liked it alfred, albeit i didn't go back to it as much as the r kelly or jazmine ones - there was such a glut of r&b albums in december (each and every one EVEN KERI HILSON being exponentially more worthy of attention than the weeknd)
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:15 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:11 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
well idk i guess it depends on what you find interesting?
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:18 (fourteen years ago)
if you find r&b interesting exclusively when it's not being r&b, gtfo basically
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:20 (fourteen years ago)
well i would generally agree w/ you but i'm not really sure who you're talking about
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:21 (fourteen years ago)
i think the weeknd are too r&b to appeal to someone who outright hates/ignore the genre -- again, they're a far cry from how to dress well or gayngs
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:22 (fourteen years ago)
btw i'm actually listening to the whole weeknd thing now for this piece - the sacrifices i make - the songwriting is pretty much non-existent, it really is like a particularly boring version of that trey songz mixtape
― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:23 (fourteen years ago)
if you find r&b interesting exclusively when it's not being r&b, gtfo basically― lex pretend, Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:20 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is like coming into my house, shitting on my rug and telling me to leave
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:26 (fourteen years ago)
wish instead of wasting time tryna HAVE OPINIONS abt worthless chillwave or other cool music u dudes wld just stick to posting abt taylor swift all day
― ♞/♘ (Lamp), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:26 (fourteen years ago)
i'm glad i'm in a profession that is never the subject of ILX threads
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:28 (fourteen years ago)
lemme just say that i am not into every band trying to mix indie w/r'n'b.
Raw MoansMaybe the only band on this list who’d admit to listening to R. Kelly… The San Diego duo of Laotian American fashion reconstructor Joseph Vorachack (who also records with Top Girls and Party Trash as Skylines) and Jeff Graves use the Oakland Raiders’ logo as their own and manage a kind of dark humor in even the bleaker edges of their R&B-meets-goth-industrial pop soundscapes. Raw Moans isn’t dark in the sense of some of the other folks — it’s late night and insular and lonesome, even when it isn’t. Disaro released the double CD-R We Want It Beautiful Not Real and RW RMX at the end of 2010. http://rawmoans.bandcamp.com/album/rw-rmx
^ this is worth hating on for all the reasons upthread.
― jaxon, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:39 (fourteen years ago)
Raw Moans isn’t dark in the sense of some of the other folks — it’s late night and insular and lonesome, even when it isn’t.
so it's dark then
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:41 (fourteen years ago)
yeah see weeknd gets play cause its better than 100 raw moans doing the same thing but shitter, not because its doing diddy/r. kelley r&b but indie
― gr8080, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:43 (fourteen years ago)
i think lex has a point but the thing he should realize is that 'middle stances' being privileged over original styles isn't something that just happens to rap or r&b in the pitchfork universe -- it also happens to traditional indie music that ppl we would call squares like
I dunno, I think that the discourse is divided pretty evenly between people who will check for Male Bonding and The National and the like and people who will dismiss out of hand on the grounds of absence of innovation.
But try and imagine P&J, say, getting behind Trey Songz to the extent it gets behind The National.
Obv R&B isn't a special victim in this regard, but it's a prominent example: it's almost impossible for most critics to valorise the-dream without setting him up as some kind of internal exception to the genre-rule (and to be fair he kind of invites such a response). I think there is much more widespread (though certainly not unanimous) critical support for the idea of "good honest (indie) rock" than for "good honest R&B".
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:49 (fourteen years ago)
I still don't understand why we equate "privileged by critics" with "privileged"
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:58 (fourteen years ago)
The same way Beltway reporters confuse "us" with "them."
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 March 2011 22:59 (fourteen years ago)
I still don't understand why we equate "privileged by critics" with "privileged
only insofar as we're talking about critical discourse.
In the same way that complaints that hollywood privileges "happy endings" aren't conclusively answered by pointing to the fact that hollywood is not representative of reality.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 23:02 (fourteen years ago)
Yes, but I think it tends to be based on a very tautological definition of "critical discourse." For instance, one in which anyone talking about the Weeknd is part of "critical discourse," and the people already talking about Trey Songz are not. Or a video debuted on Pitchfork constitutes hype in "critical circles," whereas a video debuted on B.E.T. does not. In which case ... of course critics tend to privilege the things critics privilege.
Mostly I just want to be be clear that by "middle spaces" I wasn't talking about genre cross-pollination, or even really audience cross-pollination. That just wraps things even further in a critical discourse, and my point is that critical discourse is surely not the reason someone might respond to, say Weeknd! The reason the group might appeal to someone from one audience is the same reason it might not appeal to someone from another -- it's making specific decisions, about things like mixing and arrangement and self-presentation, that are inviting to some sensibilities and not others. To me, this isn't just about genre; it winds up staking out an actual mood and emotion effect that cannot just be substituted with any random other piece of r&b. This does not make it better or more important, but it certainly keeps me from being weirded out that some arty/indie-leaning listeners might be more interested in Weeknd than in Trey Songz, or that people who write about music for that audience might cover them.
I mean basically ... maybe this is an admission that I should not be writing about music at all, but hey, audiences are looking for different things -- I care about why, but I've ceased to understand kicking against the fact of it, I guess?
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 24 March 2011 23:19 (fourteen years ago)
Well I'm not really kicking against the fact of it either, or surprised that some audiences might prefer Weeknd over Trey Songz, or saying that they're wrong to do so, I'm just saying none of this happens in some ideologicaly pure zone of "pure music".
People's enjoyment of stuff tends to follow established, carved-out water courses, is all, and of course this is as true for lex enjoying R&B as it is for p4k-reading-strawman enjoying indie.
To me, this isn't just about genre; it winds up staking out an actual mood and emotion effect that cannot just be substituted with any random other piece of r&b.
Strictly speaking no music is really substitable for another. I could just as easily argue that Trey Songz and Teedra Moses are not commensurate or exchangeable with one another. It's not so much Weeknd's "point of difference" that is being fantasised into existence here, but the very distinctiveness of this point of difference relative to a perceived undifferentiated morass of "genre".
People perceive difference in part because they're encouraged to do so, and fail to perceive it elsewhere because it's not drawn to their attention.
― Tim F, Thursday, 24 March 2011 23:42 (fourteen years ago)
^^^yeah this is what im saying nabsico, like, i dont see nearly as much variation w/ this act as proponents of the artists do from the R&B mean
― so fly zone (D-40), Thursday, 24 March 2011 23:58 (fourteen years ago)
tim, people will especially notice points of distinction -- even minor ones -- if those distinctions address particular needs they have, resolve conflicts they have, and so on. in this case, it's not that Weeknd are uniquely different from other r&b! it's that the particular ways they're different do something of value for some narrow pocket of listeners.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 00:28 (fourteen years ago)
some narrow pocket of listeners who happen to wield influence!
― who is john nult? (dayo), Friday, 25 March 2011 00:31 (fourteen years ago)
Yes but this kind of implies that needs spring forth fully formed and pre-exist the music that addresses them and the discourse around that music.
Whereas music, like any product, like any art, mostly manufactures the needs it addresses. It's very rare that we perceive some musical absence until it is filled: the impression of absence is retrospective.
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 00:44 (fourteen years ago)
For the sake of clarity I'm not here to bitch about the Weeknd. What I'm saying would be no less true (just true in a different way) if the p4k-strawman-listener actually checked for Trey Songz instead.
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 00:46 (fourteen years ago)
xp -- Or maybe here's an analogy. There is abundant variation among dog breeds. They vary on all sorts of levels. A basenji does not differ from "most dogs" any more than countless other breeds. But if your particular relationship with dogs is that you just hate the sound of barking, then the barkless basenji is going to be unique to you in an incredibly specific way. So I guess I'm just trying to flip the question around from "what are Weeknd doing that's so special" to "what needs do certain listeners have that Weeknd might turn out to scratch?" (I haven't listened quite enough to be sure -- for all I know, it might just be about mixing r&b in a way that hits the ears like an indie album, rather than a super-compressed radio r&b single.)
xp -- Tim, I'd agree with that, sure: the needs, inclinations, and sensibilities we're talking about are totally learned and built. Though I think lots of them are just built around some previous need...
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 00:53 (fourteen years ago)
this argument is just "people have different tastes, whaddya gonna do about it", right? i mean fair enough i guess but it feels like completely giving up if you can't argue why something sucks or is amazing - and in any case it doesn't answer my beef w/the disproportionate coverage.
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 01:00 (fourteen years ago)
So I guess I'm just trying to flip the question around from "what are Weeknd doing that's so special" to "what needs do certain listeners have that Weeknd might turn out to scratch?" (I haven't listened quite enough to be sure -- for all I know, it might just be about mixing r&b in a way that hits the ears like an indie album, rather than a super-compressed radio r&b single.)
Yes this makes sense to me.
I just think it's important to stress that the needs in this case are public more than private, at least in the way they're articulated. I don't believe people tend to think to themselves "yes I love this and the reason I love this is that it answers a need I have for music that mixes R&B and indie" solely in the privacy of their own heads. That notion of need both precedes their experience of the music, assuming they've read anything about the music before it, and then retroactively structures their enjoyment as expressed to other people, in person or on ILM or on a blog or in a review or whatever. It's a public idea that renders a private experience communicable.
Connected to the fact the needs are learnt and built is the fact that needs are also justifications for conduct (though this definitely doesn't make them either bad or untrue) - I drink three beers each night and when asked why I say it's to unwind from this work, and I think this is simultaenously true and also a handy way to lend some kind of publicly legitimate cause-and-effect coherence to my behaviour.
And when we realise this is the case, the distance between the lines of enquiry: "what makes this so special" and "what needs does it fulfil" disappears, because the apparent filling-of-needs and the public-basis-of-specialness are one and the same.
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 01:15 (fourteen years ago)
maybe this is because it's 1.30am here but i honestly have no idea what that last sentence means tim.
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 01:28 (fourteen years ago)
It's kinda funny that someone compared these guys to trip-hop upthread cos Marsha Ambrosius covers Portishead on her album. Not that it means anything.
― Number None, Friday, 25 March 2011 01:31 (fourteen years ago)
yeah the portishead cover is kind of pointlessly faithful
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 01:32 (fourteen years ago)
aaah I was wondering where I had heard that before
― who is john nult? (dayo), Friday, 25 March 2011 01:40 (fourteen years ago)
I interpret nabisco's position as being "what is worth thinking about with the Weeknd is not why they are special in general, but why they are important or interesting to particular listeners and what needs they are fulfilling for those listeners."
IMO this isn't really a dichotomy, because what particular listeners want and need is already shaped and formed by their interaction with public discourse.
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 02:30 (fourteen years ago)
i.e. radical subjectivism is bogus and lends too much mystical authority to "this is just the way I feel".
fwiw cuz im not sure this is always clear w/ these comparisons i brought up the trey songz comparison bcuz a few tracks on the last album & much of the anticipation mixtape are both fairly unusual considering his reputation as an artist & imo covers very similar 'vibes' to what this is aiming for, but does it more successfully.
and at some point i do kind of think that what this does for listeners that other 'regular R&B' artists dont becomes, well, it does what they dont, and that at some level its simply reactive.
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 02:31 (fourteen years ago)
see i'm more interested in what leads some people to download The Weeknd's songs or album and get excited about it when that connection doesn't occur for most other new R&B records outside of maybe The-Dream -- it seems like a matter of being only receptive to that music when it comes from certain avenues more than there being something that distinct and unusual about the music itself.
― some dude, Friday, 25 March 2011 02:37 (fourteen years ago)
in my case, it was cuz jaxon recommended it!
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 02:41 (fourteen years ago)
yes but you check for r&b outside of the weekend, so that doesn't really count
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 02:42 (fourteen years ago)
i don't i don't nec wanna be the strawman for 'indie' 'blog reader' who only listens to something if it's weird. but i might as well accept parts of it even though i dislike indie rock and i don't read blogs.
― jaxon, Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:24 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
2 of your first 3 posts on this thread were links to blogs, i'm sorry if that led me to make scandalous assumptions about your web browsing habits.
― some dude, Friday, 25 March 2011 02:48 (fourteen years ago)
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, March 25, 2011 2:42 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
ha yeah i know i wasnt really 'making a pt related to the argument' more just saying why i bothered
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 02:57 (fourteen years ago)
― some dude, Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:37 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
srs dont get why you guys have wasted 300 posts itt trying to figure out how The Weeknd is different from "other R&B" i dunno maybe fuckin listen to it it sounds way different
my "avenue" for downloading the weeknd's songs: i heard "the morning" on a youtube link a friend sent me and i really liked it so i listened to the other stuff. when the mixtape dropped this week i downloaded it. NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED.
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 05:46 (fourteen years ago)
also i own a basenji mix:http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/29441_1488590575961_1269860854_1354382_3862676_n.jpgsince she's not 100% basenji, she can bark but rarely does
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 05:47 (fourteen years ago)
VERY pertinent
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 05:49 (fourteen years ago)
2 of your first 3 posts on this thread were links to blogs, i'm sorry if that led me to make scandalous assumptions about your web browsing habits.― some dude, Friday, March 25, 2011 2:48 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
Ha. I'd never been to those blogs in my life before. I can't remember where I first heard "what you need", but it made a serious impact and I couldn't find anything else about them on the internet at the time (prob also because I spelled their name wrong). I just posted those links so people could hear the tracks. I was honestly surprised that this thread got so few responses at the time. I sent it to a few friends over IM and still not much. I actually figured deej wasn't feeling it because he didn't really say anything over IM, but I didn't really think that much of it. Tastes are tastes and just because someone doesn't completely agree w me, I'm not gonna change my opinions. But seriously, I'm kind of lolling at all the crazy reactions this thread is getting now that there's argument involved. Now that blogs and pitchfork or whoever is talking about. It's been like a month or something and people are already sick of critics talking about these guys. You guys are kinda silly btw. Just enjoy life, don't worry what critics are saying, what it means to the grand scope of things, smoke a doob, make out w your chick or dude and fucking chilllllll.
― jaxon, Friday, 25 March 2011 06:03 (fourteen years ago)
remembering that night/septembers coming soon/im pining for the moon
― i always think about you (Lamp), Friday, 25 March 2011 06:14 (fourteen years ago)
can i just:
btw i'm actually listening to the whole weeknd thing now for this piece - the sacrifices i make - the songwriting is pretty much non-existent, it really is like a particularly boring version of that trey songz mixtape― lex pretend, Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:23 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
― lex pretend, Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:23 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 06:14 (fourteen years ago)
thank you lex for making this sacrifice
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 06:15 (fourteen years ago)
Just enjoy life, don't worry what critics are saying, what it means to the grand scope of things, smoke a doob, make out w your chick or dude and fucking chilllllll.
― jaxon, Friday, March 25, 2011 2:03 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark
lol you're posting on a message board started by belle & sebastian fans and populated by music critics
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 06:15 (fourteen years ago)
haha for a bunch of p self-aware message board posters some of u guys are getting pretty het up about "blogs"
― max, Friday, 25 March 2011 06:55 (fourteen years ago)
the weeknd, exciting new blog&b band
― who is john nult? (dayo), Friday, 25 March 2011 06:59 (fourteen years ago)
i would kind of like an instrumental version of this album
― max, Friday, 25 March 2011 07:00 (fourteen years ago)
maybe one of you guys who reads a ton of blogs (jaxon?) can let me know if one exists
max at the end of the year can you make a top 10 list of albums you would like if there was no singer
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 07:02 (fourteen years ago)
^^^ seconded, also could you post it on your blog
― who is john nult? (dayo), Friday, 25 March 2011 07:03 (fourteen years ago)
i can make that list right now
― max, Friday, 25 March 2011 07:06 (fourteen years ago)
make a list of threads that would be better without music critics talking about The State of Music Criticism
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 07:08 (fourteen years ago)
some of us like talking abt thinking abt music n stuff sorry
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 07:14 (fourteen years ago)
*takes photo in front of plant in kitchen while wearing sunglasses, posts to flickr*
being cranky abt music that u dont like is fun imo sorry we brough bad vibes
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 07:16 (fourteen years ago)
oh sorry, didn't realize you guys were having fun.
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 07:25 (fourteen years ago)
well yeah man, laugh all u want but i do enjoy thinking thru why i like/dont like things critically & discussing that stuff here
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 07:42 (fourteen years ago)
im not sure who u think is being aggy here anyway.
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 07:44 (fourteen years ago)
yeah most people in this thread apart from lex aren't really frothing.
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 09:01 (fourteen years ago)
"what is worth thinking about with the Weeknd is not why they are special in general, but why they are important or interesting to particular listeners and what needs they are fulfilling for those listeners."
why is what indie listeners think always considered so important? what other demographic gets this attention paid to it?
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 09:22 (fourteen years ago)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/mar/24/weeknd-rb-indie
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 09:32 (fourteen years ago)
if i hadn't pitched one, would i be seeing any columns at all about any other r&b release of 2011 so far?
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 09:37 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Friday, March 25, 2011 5:22 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is the real question right - why is the majority of music criticism focused on indie music. if I were spitballing I would suggest it's probably something to do with the current state of music criticism being derived from a tradition of rock-focused criticism that grew out of the rock explosion in the 60s. but I don't know anything about the history of music criticism, so.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Friday, 25 March 2011 10:00 (fourteen years ago)
nitsuh's latest column re: this - http://pitchfork.com/features/why-we-fight/7948-why-we-fight-12/
― just sayin, Friday, 25 March 2011 10:15 (fourteen years ago)
idk indie as a whole has a large history of engaging w/ itself in a paratextual way that easily puts it into conversations w/ rock crit. i kindof hinted upthread that hwtd kindof does this connect the dots thing where it finds something similar in the synth washes on Fancy as in the gurgling drones of Live Loop. I kindof think this is what makes indie ideal for conversation w/ rock journalism and kindof closes the loop somewhat to the exclusion of other genres. also bc everyone is out to get lex.
― plax (ico), Friday, 25 March 2011 12:14 (fourteen years ago)
There's an argument that criticism is the lifeblood of indie music, it NEEDS it in a way that r&b, which is a global pop phenomenon, doesn't, but that only really suits the artists who are right at the top of the pyramid and as a result the others tend to disappear withotu trace.
But do what extent do those artists further down actually court the press? It reminds me a bit of the pub argument I had about Night Slugs and Hyperdub getting the lion's share of the dance press through promotion, design, branding, where yr average funky producers get virtually none despite making music that's as good if not better.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 12:37 (fourteen years ago)
The point I'm slowly burrowing towards is that it's not enough just to blame the critics, although many of them are certainly lazy and don't listen to or review things they aren't spoonfed. It's a question of whether the promotional infrastructure is adequate enough in other genres or whether it is failing its artists.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 12:41 (fourteen years ago)
not sure pointing out how indie everything is is the solution to stopping people talking about what indie listeners think.
― LocalGarda, Friday, 25 March 2011 12:48 (fourteen years ago)
not sure about this, am sure e.g. Donae'O would've done as much press as he could whereas Hyperdub is surely supposed to have some mystique and their stuff isn't likely to appeal to popular clubs in the way much funky would. it is really down to the whims and characteristics of the critics available, and their willingness to intellectualise (write about) dance music that ISN'T thought of as edgy or in any way alt which the two labels you mention do evoke by name alone.
― no geirs with attitude (blueski), Friday, 25 March 2011 12:59 (fourteen years ago)
Hah, you're skirting around the point that Hyperdub gets press because it cleaves to an indier sensibility. Artiness, mystique, ease of intellectualisation. Same with Warp in the 90s.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 13:25 (fourteen years ago)
... and Hyperdub's promotional people know how to court that, obviously.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 13:26 (fourteen years ago)
i feel like i'd get my point across better itt if i went full carles and talked about how R&B is 'so hot right now' but only if it has some 'altbro-friendly branding'
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 15:53 (fourteen years ago)
i swear to god, people, part of the reason you think the world is dominated by "indie" criticism is because that's all you're reading or considering "criticism." in the US there remain magazines, websites, columns, and reams of daily newspaper coverage of things like mainstream r&b, but for some reason people rarely conceive of them as part of "critical discourse" or real "critical opinion" -- they privilege indie and then ask why indie is so privileged.
the other part is that "indie" stuff -- and many other niches -- developed a purpose to criticism (and grew a community around it) in times when that was the only way it could communicate and exist; it organized along those lines in a way things that functioned as pop didn't. it seems to me that deep critical communities of fandom -- constituencies that are actually organized that way -- are starting to develop for pop and r&b, even if you don't count the massive chunks of twitter and facebook and people's actual lives that ALREADY do that but aren't considered "criticism" because they're not indie enough to be bitched about.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)
also gr80 otm with this
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 16:48 (fourteen years ago)
oh ok, we're the snobs because we don't consider fan updates on social networking sites to be criticism. got it.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 16:51 (fourteen years ago)
although honestly it might not be a bad idea to submit a collection of #teambreezy tweets to the next da capo
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:01 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i mean, criticism is central to indie but indie isnt central to crit! just because R&B / etc genre crit isnt as fleshed out as indie doesnt mean that those of us who care abt good critical writing of the form should have to do so on indies terms. or am i misunderstanding
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:03 (fourteen years ago)
if you think daily newspapers, Vibe columns, and black music journalists are on the level of facebook status updates, then yes, that's pretty snobby
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:06 (fourteen years ago)
i think that many times those ppl privilege a lot of indie / 'crit music' more than they should
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:10 (fourteen years ago)
i mean im not sure that what we're critiquing here is, like, 'people who write about indie primarily & also like R&B for the moment' but a wider structural understanding of genre that privileges certain stuff, a way of thinking that impacts jay-z and kanye as much as a dude who regularly reads pfork
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:12 (fourteen years ago)
Not to mention that there's as vibrant a pop-music blogosphere as there is an indie one - something I didn't fully appreciate until I met friends of friends who get as much free music, early leaks, tickets and press access to Kylie/Kelis//whoever for running pop blogs. They can be as frothing-at-the-mouth fanboyish as the indie blogosphere, but they're as much criticism as Stereogum or Gorilla vs Bear or whatever. (i.e. not full length fleshed out genre crit, but the universe exists, you know?)
― Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill The Radio Star (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:15 (fourteen years ago)
yes but what were talking about IS full length genre crit, not internet enthusiasm
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:16 (fourteen years ago)
Well, to be fair, a significant chunk about this conversation started because The Weeknd "appeals to people who read blogs" or whatever the quote was. I just meant that I think that rap blogs/r&b blogs/VIBE/etc. perhaps interact with each other in similar ways that Stereogum/GvB/P4K/etc. do? The existence of somewhat discrete spheres of music appreciation ranging from internet enthusiasm to full length genre crit doesn't necessarily create a hierarchy, except insofar as the majority of people writing HERE perhaps fall into social and professional circles closer to one of those spheres than the other? Or that something about the organizational structure/visibility/discourse within or surrounding each of those spheres seems to imply a hierarchy?
― Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill The Radio Star (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:20 (fourteen years ago)
Congestion + cold meds + lack of sleep apparently causes me to end sentences in question marks. Apologies. That paragraph should be more assertive.
― Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill The Radio Star (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:21 (fourteen years ago)
uh i mean the mist commercially successful AND most blogged abt star of last year was lady gaga but yr arguments are getting closer and closer to "why doesnt the blogosphere have exactly the same taste as me?"
― plax (ico), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:23 (fourteen years ago)
well blog/crit types have their "OUR pop star who should be as huge as Gaga" in Robyn etc. a star as big as Gaga being as hotly discussed in those circles as their web-friendly niche artist equivalent is a rare phenomenon.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:28 (fourteen years ago)
I feel like we're inverting or extrapolating one or two arguments or questions (which I might phrase as "why does an R&B act like The Weeknd so quickly gain the kind of critical acceptance similar mainstream acts rarely if ever receive?" and "do generalist critics need non-rock music to code as 'weird' or 'exceptional' to make time for it?") into a whole bunch of other tangents that I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere with (like "why is music crit so dominated by indie in the first place?" and "why does white people never want to R&B?").
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:36 (fourteen years ago)
if this was being discussed w/ a cadre of vibe writers right now id likely be dealing w arguments that arent too different from this one. its not like the heirarchy of R&B writers is somehow more self-aware of the interactions of these kinds of values than indie writers are
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:41 (fourteen years ago)
i mean, im sure at some level they are, but its a matter of degree rather than an oppositional relationship
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:42 (fourteen years ago)
if you don't count the massive chunks of twitter and facebook and people's actual lives that ALREADY do that but aren't considered "criticism" because they're not indie enough to be bitched about.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, March 25, 2011 12:47 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, March 25, 2011 12:51 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, March 25, 2011 1:06 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark
this isn't even goalpost-shifting, btw, it's a straight up shell game.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:45 (fourteen years ago)
i realize im being, like, an R&B nationalist here vs. an accomodationist but at the upper reaches of music criticism it does feel like there is a conglomeration of values that serve to disadvantage certain aesthetic choices, and that those aesthetic maneuvers just happen to be ones that have certain social bases
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:50 (fourteen years ago)
I guess some people just don't want those entrenched values and aesthetics in the critical community questioned because it's SO BORING AND META or because we already fought the war on Rockism and didn't you hear Rockism lost so we're all good now.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:57 (fourteen years ago)
no ppl like the lex & tim f & deej or on some 'liberal media bias' shit & p4k is their nyt. the whole 'indie dominates the critical discourse & marginalizes pop/rnb/rap/dance/country/polka' myth is so foundational to their worldview theyll go to an length to justify it, ignore any media that doesnt confirm it, and rationalize any critical postion that legitimizes it
ohh the #1 artist on pazz & jop is a rapper but not the right rapper. oh some local alt weekly has a column abt a new r&b groups mixtape but it has too many indie signifiers. oh the times magazine has a profile of dance-pop megastar but it mentions memory tapes blah blah blah
― i always think about you (Lamp), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:57 (fourteen years ago)
(i just realized that w/ the comparisons to black nationalism or something this could be read in a way i didnt mean -- some kind of racial essentialism of music or something like that -- but i trust that u guys know i obv dont believe indie is a 'white thing' or something like that, that this is way more complicated etc)
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 17:59 (fourteen years ago)
― i always think about you (Lamp), Friday, March 25, 2011 5:57 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
its not like there isnt historical precedent for this **burns disco records**
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:03 (fourteen years ago)
what's the correct position to take instead, Lamp? all rap is the same and all R&B is the same, critics who backed Arrested Development over all other early '90s rap are cool because hey at least they had the genre covered at all?
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:04 (fourteen years ago)
like, if it's not about being able to perceive and discuss the nuances of the music, the marketing of it and how it's received by the public, if it's all just about broad strokes and general categories as far as you're concerned, then yeah I could see how you think we're calling for genre affirmative action or something stupid like that.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:11 (fourteen years ago)
whatever it is it isnt this:
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:18 (fourteen years ago)
you might not like what im doing rhetorically but my overall point is right man.
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:21 (fourteen years ago)
Yeah I mean clearly if you're an R&B singer then being seen in the papers turning up to parties regularly and looking cool is WAY more important than a good Pitchfork review when it comes to selling records, but it doesn't really help the music being taken seriously in the kind of level playing field way the Lex is gunning for.
Actually, if you're an R&B singer, it's not the Arcade Fire you should be aiming for a level playing field with, it's Lady Gaga.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:22 (fourteen years ago)
the lets smoke a doob & make out w/ your girl isnt a non-position any more than 'political moderation' is -- if you dont want to engage in discussion abt this artist thats fine but this 'you guys are tooooo anxious' thing is goofy.
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:23 (fourteen years ago)
― Matt DC, Friday, March 25, 2011 2:22 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
but does "this artist doesn't care as much about good reviews or rely on them to reach their audience" then mean that their music is less deserving or in need of good or thoughtful criticism? there's a fine line between pointing out the status quo and how we got there, and endorsing it as the way things simply are and might as well stay.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:29 (fourteen years ago)
of course people who aren't fans of r&b are also not anxious about the critical reception of it!
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:31 (fourteen years ago)
i think i need to defend my point in that post grady quoted better bcuz it may have been a clumsy parallel. What im arguing is that critics should at the very least ACKNOWLEDGE an existing value system outside of indie's and take the perspectives into account as equally legitimate. That currently, artists like this are set up against entire genres whose histories are marginalized. its like celebrating "Rapture" -- its a cool song, deserves to be celebrated, brought scenes together. but in the end, in the annals of rap history, its really not the greatest example of the genre
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:33 (fourteen years ago)
i think there are constellations of 'values' that link artists & scenes & ideas & 'taste' together and i can see the value in trying to map those constellations, to unravelling the complex interplay btw social forces that help bind those constellations together, give them shape and force. i mean its interesting to look at the aesthetic & social throughlines that connect the weeknd not just to 'indie' but to like type records ambient records or contemp photography or movements in modern design &c &c &c. and then to find how these connections in turn shape the audience for this music, how it helps determine who & how the music is heard
or i guess put another way: im deeply interested in the sort of 'emotional connection' that music seeks to make w/ a listener. its p much the only thing i post abt srsly on ilm. & often critics on ilm seem interested in talking abt the connections that exist btw music & other music or larger social trends or w/e. both of these are interesting but sometimes i feel like you guys ignore the basic f(n) of music to play this why x and not y game.
ughhh this is too long but: 10 ppl right abt the weeknd. 100 ppl write abt chris brown. if you only focus on the 10 ppl who care abt the weeknd is indie really dominating the critical discourse? or are you the ones 'privileging' a certain kind of discourse?
― i always think about you (Lamp), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:34 (fourteen years ago)
(and personally i cringe at the idea that anything on this is 'rapture' level)
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:35 (fourteen years ago)
obviously there will always be some musicians that have a Serious Artist or Brilliant Eccentric image, and others that have a Fun-Loving Entertainer or Careerist Hack image, and obviously that's always going to lead audiences to treat their music with different levels of respect or consideration. that doesn't mean that their images always correlate to the quality or content of their music, or that critics shouldn't try to dig deeper and figure out if hey maybe there's something more interesting going on in the music than those surface level categorizations make you believe.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:35 (fourteen years ago)
should i read this thread
― ronan's revenge (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:37 (fourteen years ago)
you guys can go ahead and have your meta-discussion on the state of music crit but its total bullshit to pretend that The Weeknd is in the same category MUSICALLY as Diddy or Marsha Ambrosius or even a "sparse, dark & moody Trey Songz mixtape"
obv there is a crossover but it sounds totally fuckin different than that stuff so different people are writing about it and different people are listening to it
xpost YES
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:38 (fourteen years ago)
it really doesn't sound that different from trey songz' recent slow jams
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:40 (fourteen years ago)
i mean the songs are worse and the voice is worse and the lyrics are worse but yeah
it is insane that someone pays you to write about music
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:42 (fourteen years ago)
its like celebrating "Rapture" -- its a cool song, deserves to be celebrated, brought scenes together. but in the end, in the annals of rap history, its really not the greatest example of the genre
Except no one, not even the most rockcentric of critics, thinks of 'Rapture' as rap, especially after 20+ years of pop songs with a rap in the middle of them.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:43 (fourteen years ago)
gr8080 what do u think of the tom ewing article linked upthread
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:43 (fourteen years ago)
smarter people than you think otherwise
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:44 (fourteen years ago)
― Matt DC, Friday, March 25, 2011 6:43 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
and we'll see how time treats the weeknd as well
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:44 (fourteen years ago)
its total bullshit to pretend that The Weeknd is in the same category MUSICALLY as Diddy or Marsha Ambrosius or even a "sparse, dark & moody Trey Songz mixtape"
i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd but afaict it's not any more different from those 3 other things than those 3 things are from each other. but it's definitely unfortunate and counterproductive to this discussion that that totally random assemblage of recent records has become this thread's shorthand for all contemporary R&B.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:44 (fourteen years ago)
i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd i haven't heard a lot of The Weeknd
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:45 (fourteen years ago)
The Weeknd is TRIP-HOP this has already been covered.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:45 (fourteen years ago)
bro - & i cant really imagine myself ever saying this again - this thread needs you
― i always think about you (Lamp), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:45 (fourteen years ago)
afaict it's not any more different from those 3 other things than those 3 things are from each other.
this is true. and - o my life o my sacrifice - i have heard everything that the weeknd have made, it was almost as unenjoyable as that week i had to listen to the jessie j album on loop
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:47 (fourteen years ago)
i listened to the song this thread is named after. i don't think i've said really anything itt that suggests otherwise or that i wouldn't have a right saying without listening to their entire album.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:47 (fourteen years ago)
some dude, that "shell game" post seems like the point where this thread is becoming too dicky to even post in -- I'd already said "magazines, websites, columns, and reams of daily newspaper coverage" before I even mentioned social media
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:50 (fourteen years ago)
ok but this thread has taken off since they dropped a full album/tape this week fyi
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:50 (fourteen years ago)
i'm sorry if that wasn't sufficiently clear
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:51 (fourteen years ago)
sorry for thinking its really weird that you would call foul or at least stroke yr chin about the way an album you havent listened to was getting covered
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:51 (fourteen years ago)
tbf hes arguing abt abstract 'issues' here not the specific characteristics of this record
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:54 (fourteen years ago)
What's weird is that when white Britishes dudes from the Stones onwards appropriate black American or Jamaican music for an indie audience there's usually an understanding or a celebration of their limitations and a fun point of differentiation, with some self-clowning thrown in for good measure, which is why Toddla T - a pasty white guy from Sheffield, can release a dancehall album without anyone batting an eyelid.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 18:55 (fourteen years ago)
holy crap @ this thread
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:56 (fourteen years ago)
trying to form a slightly more coherent take on this qn - at this moment in history when music is so readily accesible to anyone w/ an internet connection its worth thinking abt music as much fitting into 'emotional' or 'functional' constellations as traditional sonic/cultural ones. & so instead of always using genre as a starting (& end) point in these discussions its worth acknowledging the emotional content of the music & how big a part that plays in how its received
does that even make sense?
― i always think about you (Lamp), Friday, 25 March 2011 18:58 (fourteen years ago)
i do think that indie music is privileged in mainstream discourse nowadays & i think you can see that laid out in something like the pazz & jop results of the past two years when compared to the pazz & jop results from 5 years earlier -- that said i'm not totally on the side w/ lex going 'oooh lord robert please make pitchfork pay attention to kandi' because whatever, i mean really
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:02 (fourteen years ago)
Pazz and Jop is not "mainstream discourse".
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:02 (fourteen years ago)
lamp u realize that i started writing about rap/R&B because it felt like most critics i read -- aside from, like, kelefa sannah & some of the bigger nyt/nyer names -- didnt do that w/ those genres? its kind of funny to me this feels like a weird inverse of whats going on really
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:03 (fourteen years ago)
hey guys, i'm peacing. someone lemme know if these guys put out more music or something
― jaxon, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:03 (fourteen years ago)
yeah by the way the album totally is
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:03 (fourteen years ago)
― Matt DC, Friday, March 25, 2011 7:02 PM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
is it 'indie discourse'?
― Matt DC, Friday, March 25, 2011 3:02 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark
well maybe it's not "discourse" in and of itself but it does represent 'mainstream discourse'
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:04 (fourteen years ago)
Mainstream discourse = what you see on TV, what people talk about in the bus queue, what they dance to in town centre/High Street nightclubs, what you hear piped through in average chain stores, in non-music magazines and newspapers. There might be more indie in there than there was pre-Pitchfork in the US, and pre-Britpop in the UK, but a poll of music writers doesn't represent mainstream discourse even if it might overlap with it.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:07 (fourteen years ago)
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/03/rock-critic_pop_5.php
― ronan's revenge (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:08 (fourteen years ago)
(btw, just to be SUPER-CLEAR about what I meant about newspapers: I don't understand why, for instance, a review Sean Fennessey writes for Pitchfork constitutes core "critical discourse," but a review the same Sean Fennessey writes for the Washington Post -- of Trey Songz, Mike Posner, Kelis, Usher, etc. -- is assumed not to. I don't get why a Caramanica or Frere-Jones thinkpiece that touches on indie constitutes "real criticism" but the stuff they write about other kinds of music just ... drifts away. The main explanation I can see is that there are more people interested in reading one than the other -- and while this might suck for some folks, market-wise, I don't see what's so terrible about the market for people who like reading critical articles about music having different sensibilities from the people who like watching TV about music, listening to satellite radio shows about music, watching documentaries about music, etc. etc. etc. Will step out of this one now.)
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:08 (fourteen years ago)
"magnificent think piece"
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:08 (fourteen years ago)
c'mon whiney you can't even think that, it was absolutely dreadful
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:09 (fourteen years ago)
fine, maybe i should say 'mainstream critical discourse' -- i assumed that's what we were talking about
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:09 (fourteen years ago)
that piece was basically "here is some "r&b" that's important cuz it has indie signifiers, and commercial r&b doesn't sell as well as it used to so i'm dismissing it"
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:10 (fourteen years ago)
i dunno it's closer to burial & james blake imo
― gr8080, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:11 (fourteen years ago)
nabisco i guess my motivating factor (& i hope u dont step out, i dunno why ppl think this thread is bad vibes but i think some of the discussion has been good??) in saying this stuff is that theres an element of self fulfilling prophecy to what youre saying -- maybe more of these non-indie fans would be more likely to read criticism if there was more criticism that was written for them
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:11 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Friday, March 25, 2011 3:11 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark
nooooooooooooo
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:12 (fourteen years ago)
like, the weeknd is definitely more burial & james blake than dirty money & the-dream & drake & trey songz are burial and james blake but the weeknd is certainly more dirty money & the-dream & drake & trey songz than it is burial and james blake
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:13 (fourteen years ago)
Actually what it sounds like is a very rudimentary post-1998 Massive Attack if they decided to rope in some Terius clone on vocals. It's not actually new in the slightest, there are probably a load of mashups that approximate the same sound.
― Matt DC, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:15 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Friday, March 25, 2011 7:10 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
you do realise sean fennessy writes abt r&b quite a bit right
― just sayin, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:17 (fourteen years ago)
like, he doesnt dismiss it
yeah that wasn't fair at all
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:18 (fourteen years ago)
i mean i thought the piece was hyperbolic in some bad places but that's just the guy writes about a ton of commercial r&b
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, March 25, 2011 2:50 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, March 25, 2011 2:51 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah but my response only addressed the social media part, and I thought specifically mentioning those things would be understood that way, so the way you interpreted my post as equating that to the other things I hadn't talked about felt a little manipulative to me. if it was all a big misunderstanding then i'm sorry for being dicky.
also I read lots of music writing in daily papers like the Wash Post and occasionally write some (I interviewed Trey Songz for the Balt Sun!), and I don't feel like anything I've said has ignored the existence of those kinds of outlets.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:20 (fourteen years ago)
deej mentions "criticism written for fans of r&b and rap" but one thing i'm interested in is whether the rap & r&b world's fascination with "haters" (by both artists and fans) has stifled that type of criticism at all
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:20 (fourteen years ago)
the "#teambreezy" effect
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:21 (fourteen years ago)
true
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)
likewise i wonder if the perception (or reality) that major labels nowadays value only what sells over what is 'good' has done the same for that type of criticism
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)
like tons of ppl -- both fans and writers alike! -- wouldn't say "hey look this b.o.b album sucks balls", instead they'd say "hey it's not my thing but can't knock the hustle!" or whatever the hell
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
i dont think that someone writing about R&B or rap makes them immune to charges of not recognizing the type of biases we're discussing here fwiw
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:24 (fourteen years ago)
like, its completely fair to accuse someone of indie-centrism or other biases or blindspots, even if they were once music editor at vibe (nb im not saying this is the case w/ sean)
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:25 (fourteen years ago)
matos told me that fennessey's a former vibe editor - had never heard of him before this week - i assume he's just gotten old and past it, happens to so many
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:26 (fourteen years ago)
you dont need to be an 'indie writer' to hold values that negatively reinforce opposition to certain aesthetic qualities of some genres
― so fly zone (D-40), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
i've definitely felt a subtle shift from a few years ago when i started writing about a lot of regional/urban music that doesn't typically get a lot of critical ink, where a lot of artists were (and to an extent still are) super grateful to get that kind of coverage, but now in the Twitter era there's a lot of emphasis on having "supporters" and "followers," and more artists seem totally disinterested or outright hostile to the idea of opening themselves up to criticism or any kind of feedback that isn't 100% cheerleading.
but once again, artists not chasing down critics or catering to them is not really a good reason not to cover them if their music is good and worth writing about.
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
lol lex -- i'm pretty sure you and fennessey are the same age
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, 25 March 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
some people grow old before their time ;_;
― lex pretend, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:29 (fourteen years ago)
hahaha
― just sayin, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:29 (fourteen years ago)
He also writes for the NY Times and Washington Post and tweets and blogs. Maybe his handling of this one item should not define him for you.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:30 (fourteen years ago)
its pretty lol that you complain abt how little ppl write abt r&b and you've never heard abt this guy
― just sayin, Friday, 25 March 2011 19:36 (fourteen years ago)
The article in the Guardian references Toop's Sugar & Poison. The journalist needs to reevaluate this. The mood on that compilation is no where near Weeknd are aiming for. S&P is an exercise in indulgent, bitter-sweet, melancholic soul. Weeknd quite obviously play for a seedy, sexual but vulnerable mood. In my opinion there is a lot of rubbish being written about Weeknd. Who judges the music the like on the same scales? I've really enjoyed Weeknd's mixtape this week but they've(he's) yet to create something truly worthy.
― mmmm, Friday, 25 March 2011 22:49 (fourteen years ago)
I think we all do this, including all the writers you complain about in this thread lamp. The only difference is that when people aren't into something much they tend to downplay the "emotional" content as they don't consider it very effective or compelling.
At any rate what I've been trying to say is that "emotional content" is cultural, and no more genre-neutral than sonic content. Just as people get primed to connect with certain kinds of sonic tricks (both by listening to music and reading about it / discussing it) they get primed to connect with certain emotional tricks as well.
Personally I haven't really had a position on Weeknd in this thread, or even the media's treatment of R&B really, I'm just a bit suspicious of any arguments premised on some vague dichotomy between thinking and feeling.
― Tim F, Friday, 25 March 2011 23:17 (fourteen years ago)
please tell me you've at least listened to them
― gr8080, Saturday, 26 March 2011 00:13 (fourteen years ago)
question for you guys re: avenues to discovering the weeknd:
a friend of mine said she found out about the weeknd when it came up on a pandora station she had programmed to play artists like:
― gr8080, Saturday, 26 March 2011 00:17 (fourteen years ago)
payolandora?
― NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED. (some dude), Saturday, 26 March 2011 00:49 (fourteen years ago)
best bit on the thread so far is lex not knowing who my beautiful dark twisted fennessey is
― who is john nult? (dayo), Saturday, 26 March 2011 01:24 (fourteen years ago)
thats "hurricane" fennessey to you
― max, Saturday, 26 March 2011 01:41 (fourteen years ago)
One time I used pandora to find some good 70s new age. It kept playing blaring droney crap that I 86'd until it basically went "fuck it" and started playing Jaheim and teedra Moses. turned out that was what I was looking for all along.
― blank, Saturday, 26 March 2011 01:46 (fourteen years ago)
tim, i meant to note earlier that i definitely know what you're getting at on this thread. the only thing i feel a need to note is that the "priming" you're talking about is surely, for most people, an INCREDIBLY complicated interaction between stuff in the world (narratives about genre, media, social taste, etc.) and a lot MORE stuff about themselves (self-image, emotional desires, etc.) i worry when conversations seem to be overemphasizing the first part. but maybe that's not what's happening here.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Saturday, 26 March 2011 02:20 (fourteen years ago)
I like this and don't feel conflicted about that.
― Popture, Saturday, 26 March 2011 02:46 (fourteen years ago)
wicked games one is pretty cool. that's the only youtube i could get to work.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 02:51 (fourteen years ago)
"does this make me corny indie fuxor btw?"
dude, you are rarely corny. and you have better taste than most people. that's why i first clicked on this thread. not for no controversy! no lexoversy!
i dig some of the discussion though. and you are all lucky because i have very little to add.
i knew i smelled somthing burning in here. you guys were thinking and stuff! god bless you.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 03:17 (fourteen years ago)
The background vocal sample on The Party and The After Party... where's that from? It's killing me.
― Popture, Saturday, 26 March 2011 03:38 (fourteen years ago)
it's Beach House.
hi scott seward you're my favorite kind of music critic
― gr8080, Saturday, 26 March 2011 03:51 (fourteen years ago)
u mad
― so fly zone (D-40), Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:06 (fourteen years ago)
― Popture, Friday, March 25, 2011 11:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― gr8080, Friday, March 25, 2011 11:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
bet i'm gonna love this record huh
― ★ INXS ★ What You Need ★ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:09 (fourteen years ago)
yeah absolutely. I guess when we're talking about stuff in general it's easier to focus on the "stuff in the world" than the "stuff about [the listeners]" because (a) people's discussions about why they like things tend to emphasise the former anyway even if the latter is more important to them (for ease of communication as much as for any other reason) and because (b) the areas of overlap and are likely to be greater with the former.
Like, as much as saying "Weeknd-fans have this idea about R&B" is an unfair generalisation, I would have thought "Weeknd fans identify with this notion of the hollowness at the heart of hypersexualised modernity" (or insert other similar prevailing explanation for the emotional appeal of this music) to be far more of a generalisation.
Which is not to say that critics shouldn't indulge in this kind of thing, but I notice that people only have an issue with it when they're getting all defensive "these are not my thoughts get out of my brane!"
― Tim F, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:13 (fourteen years ago)
Tim what do you think about this album
― gr8080, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:23 (fourteen years ago)
dude, you are rarely corny >:-0
― jaxon, Saturday, 26 March 2011 05:12 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Saturday, March 26, 2011 1:51 PM (5 hours ago)
Oh thanks, It was thinking it sounded a bit like B BEAT GIRLS "FOR THE SAME MAN" Classic Version 1983 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rJp80ozJ4c) , but it's just that sounds a little like Beach House.
― Popture, Saturday, 26 March 2011 09:04 (fourteen years ago)
btw did anybody notice in one of the songs he goes "fun fun fun fun fun"
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 01:07 (fourteen years ago)
now I understand why everybody's lookin' forward to The Weeknd
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 01:25 (fourteen years ago)
weeknd warriors
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 01:39 (fourteen years ago)
I'm listening to anticipation right now, it's nice but I don't think it's directly comparable to the weeknd, yeah the production is stripped down and bare on some tracks, but the vocal arrangements are still very lush compared to the weeknd
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:07 (fourteen years ago)
Given most people who would be boosting Trey over the Weeknd probably would say that the latter's vocals are its weakest link, that ought not be so surprising.
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:12 (fourteen years ago)
I don't dislike Weeknd's vocals except for particular moments actually; I agree he sounds more like Jeremih than Trey.
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:13 (fourteen years ago)
I'm kinda loving that hollowed out, empty-eyed feeling of the opening bars on the morning
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:15 (fourteen years ago)
I briefly flirted w/ trey songz after cb broke my heart/rihannas face but i was put off by his luvvverman thing and it felt like it was for 30smthg professionals and that you should listen to it w/ a glass of wine and watch the city through your floor-ceiling windows. weeknd sound like you're watching the end of a party through smoke.
― plax (ico), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:16 (fourteen years ago)
I'm kinda diggin lamp's appraisal of different emotional spaces upthread, and yeah emotional responses are enculturated, guess it appeals to my culture
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:16 (fourteen years ago)
you could dub a weeknd track of this vid and it'd be ~just right~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnvFOaBoieE
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:18 (fourteen years ago)
*over this vid
The Weeknd actually remind me a lot of my own obsession with a hidden history of isolationist/intergalactic R&B future-slow-jams, so I can't object to this dude too much because it's the kind of thing I might try to do if I was a musician. Anyway if I was gonna make an R&B-for-Weeknd-fans mixtape it'd be stuff like:
The-Dream - AbyssJeremih - The 5 SensesAshanti - VoodooTweet - Drunk - ACTUALLY GRADY, MAX, PLAX ET AL LISTEN TO THIS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwpeFUrPsLY
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:26 (fourteen years ago)
fwiw the dude's voice wasn't what i had a particular problem w/ it was the songwriting & i guess vocal arrangements, sure -- to me those sound underwritten -- partly improvised but in a way that signifies to me anyway carelessness rather than craft
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:29 (fourteen years ago)
I dunno, the dude is going for a very specific feel w/ the arrangements in say, house of ballons/glass table girls - I don't think it bespeaks carelessness at all
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:30 (fourteen years ago)
that tweet track is amazing btw
that would be where I hear what lex & andy were talking about w/r/t it sounding 'forced' like this guy waltzes into a studio & thinks he can diy his way into a classic R&B record that gets a pass bcuz people will say like grady was that oh its not R&B at all -- it gets to be bad at these things because its made for burial fans
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:30 (fourteen years ago)
like most of the haters itt have been "trey songz did the same style but did it BETTER" but so far nobody's really offered up what metrics or continuum they are putting trey songz ahead of the weeknd on
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:31 (fourteen years ago)
real rnb
― plax (ico), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:32 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:31 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i havent??
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:32 (fourteen years ago)
multiple xxxxpost I think this is always an issue with "outsider" takes on genre: in most cases people who follow the genre closely can actually point to a myriad of examples where the genre itself previously has produced stuff in the same vein, so they're more likely to see the point of difference as ~60% market positioning.
Of course no-one (except arguably Drake, and then fitfully) has made the above sound their raison d'etre, so it's also about giving that sound a certain conceptual unity, about stating that it's the goal rather than just something done on the way to doing a number of other things.
I imagine lots of hip hop listeners would have felt similarly about the critical rise of trip hop at the time: like, we do this kind of thing anyway, you're just not listening hard enough.
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:33 (fourteen years ago)
do you see your name in that post deej?
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:33 (fourteen years ago)
I think "Unfortunate" is more genuinely impressive surround-sound (the variety of vocal approaches are important) and also more moving, but it's a matter of degree for me rather than "this is great that is awful".
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:34 (fourteen years ago)
Maybe we should talk about "Shades" here also.
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:35 (fourteen years ago)
i might not be the best representative for the anti-side in this case though as my issue is more with the execution than the overall attempt. Like, im into that one jamie woon song, and i dug the way ariel pink did this kind of thing sometimes. its not an overall anti-indie bias, i was fairly surprised that i didnt like it when i first listened
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:35 (fourteen years ago)
'this kind of thing' being genre mixing generally, pink sounds nothing like this obv
― Tim F, Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:33 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah i remember talking w/ noz about that song 'dominoes' by big pink that was year ended last year, and about how it was like a nas/jay-z hot line/hot song but with gucci instead. There's a bias here in that, theres a density of these kinds of ideas in a genre, and then someone focuses on one of them to give it 'conceptual unity' & its taken more seriously (still unclear on why Big Pink's groupie misogyny barely raised an eyebrow)
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:38 (fourteen years ago)
year ended at pfork
so what about the execution don't you like, deej
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:38 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:33 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
whenever i see 'haters' i assume my name is in it lol
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:39 (fourteen years ago)
I think in some ways R&B has developed a certain sensibility whereby it hints at all of these sensations along the lines of "watching the end of a party through smoke" etc. etc. without actually acknowledging it head on, but the singer knows that the listener knows that the singer knows that that territory is right there, a gaping abyss surrounding the loving and debauchery and egoism.
And I think big R&B listeners end up preferring that strategic misdirection and coded mannerism, leaving the Weeknd's decision to face it head on seeming somehow gauche, like coming out and saying what everyone else was cleverly implying.
Whereas people who aren't so into R&B for the first time wouldn't be hearing all that implication, so appreciate someone reproducing that notion so wholeheartedly and deliberately.
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:39 (fourteen years ago)
what does gucci have to do w/ 'dominoes'
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:39 (fourteen years ago)
we concluded it was the kind of simile he would have come up w/
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:40 (fourteen years ago)
fwiw this is around the same you & i did our 'top gucci verses of 2k9' so we were waist deep in lyrics at that pt
Srsly though no-one would blink if "The 5 Senses" was on this album, imitation of 50 Cent rap 'n' all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqZaoR5NBiY
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:41 (fourteen years ago)
I would like to point out I have been otm in this thread w/ the jeremih comparison, no deej
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:42 (fourteen years ago)
Stick a reverb peddle on this and you're away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBPeyHjDx6Q
― jimitheexploder, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:43 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:42 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
the first time i did this post it was on some 'no lj' so just fyi that doesnt work
but i dont know jeremih's 2nd album so
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:46 (fourteen years ago)
echo echo echo echo
just like the press for this
― jimitheexploder, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:46 (fourteen years ago)
man thats a great call w/ the jeremih
― so fly zone (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:47 (fourteen years ago)
Kinda keen to build on my own thought here: the value of the hidden gesture in particular genres.
Like, I don't expect big Weeknd stans who are not also massively into modern R&B to really like the remix of Cristina Milian's "Dip It Low", but for me it has the debauchery into shattered emptiness vibe that people seem to see in this stuff.
― Tim F, Sunday, 27 March 2011 02:59 (fourteen years ago)
I think you're on to something there - foregrounding the 'shattered emptiness vibe' is definitely what sets this apart from other R&B out there, and the indie production is used to get at that, not as an end in itself
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:02 (fourteen years ago)
like I think the lex's complaints would make a lot more sense if this was trey songz loverman type lyrics set over beach house, but it's not
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:03 (fourteen years ago)
whoa hold on its still a guy singing about rnb
― plax (ico), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:07 (fourteen years ago)
also lol this band have been mentioned four times on pitchfork and once was nabisco writing about this thread
― plax (ico), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:09 (fourteen years ago)
I think some blogs mentioned the weeknd too, don't forget
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:14 (fourteen years ago)
i feel like im drowning
― plax (ico), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:15 (fourteen years ago)
the shit leaked like a day ago b/w trust me these dudes are gonna be on late nite tv w/in a couple months
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:25 (fourteen years ago)
yeah when something's trajectory is so clearly preordained i don't think it's out of line to think a couple steps ahead
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:40 (fourteen years ago)
i mean if Drake actually does hire these guys to write a couple of joints on his next album and they become another shade in his spectrum of 40/Boi 1da sadsack R&B that'll be a slightly different kind of success than we're assuming they're headed for but probably won't make a huge difference ultimately
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:42 (fourteen years ago)
whatevs, it's more fun to talk about than the new gucci mane mixtape
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:47 (fourteen years ago)
obv
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:47 (fourteen years ago)
tbh i was really impressed how quickly tom & nabisco managed to publish pieces responding to not just the mixtape but the discussion around it. epic
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:50 (fourteen years ago)
tom?
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:58 (fourteen years ago)
this is nice.
― I just want to give a shout-out to Buzzy Beetles (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:02 (fourteen years ago)
and yeah, very jeremih
― I just want to give a shout-out to Buzzy Beetles (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:03 (fourteen years ago)
think i need to cruise ilm for music recommends more often now that I'm less biz active
― I just want to give a shout-out to Buzzy Beetles (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:06 (fourteen years ago)
not to like further incense gr80 that i'm not attentively listening to the entire album and posting strictly about the music, but as much as i totally get Lamp's point about emotional response, i'm really interested in the thought process that gets people clicking around and deciding to hear The Weeknd in the first place. like obviously this is being defined universally as R&B, whether a certain kind or a hybrid with something else, but what are the keywords or aspects of the buzz around this that it's quickly impacting a type of music fan that by and large isn't checking for R&B? i mean you might ALSO primarily hear about some ilx-beloved R&B act like Teedra Moses or Electrik Red on the internet rather than the radio, but even within this little community there's a palpable difference of how those records are discussed and buzzed about vs. this.
the're also a reason why i think this being R&B is very particular to the argument and why analogies to situations in other genres aren't especially useful. i really believe that probably a greater percentage of the best R&B is mainstream (either on a major label or being made by very visible, famous artists) than is true for probably any other major genre right now. there are whole worlds of underground/niche/internet/indie rock or rap or dance music that offer completely different things to music fans that the mainstream equivalents don't even begin to provide -- i'm not sure if that's so much the case with R&B, where most off-the-radar artists are either wannabe mainstream amateurs and also-rans or working in an older style that's no longer on the charts. usually when critics do rally around a less commercial R&B artist, it's the latter, someone like Sharon Jones that makes total sense as an 'alternative' to radio R&B. with something like The Weeknd that's not only stylistically contemporary but has earned a lot of comparisons to a artists/sounds that are all over the radio (Drake/40, Terius/Tricky), i gotta say it feels like the 'mysterious collective' stuff and the weird cover art are making way more of the difference than just the subtleties of mood and production styles.
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:25 (fourteen years ago)
i feel like whiney could do a 'if someone had a gun to your head could you sing' poll to most of this record & ppl would struggle to remember the hooks unless theyd lived with it for a long time. which is my problem w/ the songwriting in general. without playing the record now, can anyone sing that first track from memory? the bulk of this stuff just doesnt stick imo
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:31 (fourteen years ago)
this maybe IS one of those times where it's fair to point out the record's been out for x days or whatever
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:32 (fourteen years ago)
usually on records in this pop milieu there are a good number of tracks that hit right away though, or when i spin thru the record i can see how they'll grow w/ time.
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:33 (fourteen years ago)
ime
yeah i know i'm just sayin
listening to "Wicked Games" and yeah this guy really does lean on the F-words in the same kind of "YEAH I SAID IT my mom didn't hear that did she?" way as Tyler Comma The Creator
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:38 (fourteen years ago)
i do think 'the morning' has a good hook to it but the wayne quote in the chorus feels awkward to me in a way that i remember talking about w/r/t that glitchy uk dance genre that almost-was with switch back in the mid-00s where they would sample diddy saying "i love to make you dance," where its going for a hip-hop vibe but does it in a way that feels kind of ... not like what an american artist would do? stilted.
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:40 (fourteen years ago)
but what are the keywords or aspects of the buzz around this that it's quickly impacting a type of music fan that by and large isn't checking for R&B?
w/o tryna sidebrag or be lame just knowing where the dudes behind this are coming from, the type of social circle(s) they move in/culture they participate in i think there's a self-reinforcing aspect to it. like if youre a young educated person in their early 20s living in a big city & youve made some music where else but the dreaded blogs are you gonna go to promote your stuff? & the tumblrs that youre gonna send your stuff to are the ones you like, or your friends write, or ppl you know think are cool.
like i realize this is tautological but theres this whole constellation of ~cultural participation~ that creates its own logic - it almost feels like qn why you might be buzzing over some local baltimore artist when theyres just as good music being made in san diego - thats not where you live yknow
& also i mean w/o going on a reality tv show or doing mall tours idk how a person wld even start tryna break into the mnstrm r&b game atp so its like - what else are you gonna do?
― i always think about you (Lamp), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:48 (fourteen years ago)
ugh why is 50 on "the 5 senses"? that worked perfectly at the end of "waiter"
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:53 (fourteen years ago)
xp ^^ this kinda plays into points upthread made about how indie needs criticism or these grassroots promotions to be relevant, whereas the R&B model has done just fine w/o it
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:55 (fourteen years ago)
was waiting for you to show up xp
oh yeah, there are a lot of things happening in terms of how the artist is putting their music out and how people are hearing it that are totally logical, honest, easily explained, etc. i'm just trying to say there are grey areas of that process that maybe ARE a little more insidious or imbued with deeper meaning, without sounding like a conspiracy theorist or something. xpost
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:55 (fourteen years ago)
idk how i got here actually i have never heard this band, what is their big song?
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:57 (fourteen years ago)
and of course since the majority of R&B is defined by how much radio play/mtv play it gets, or even by how much radio play it aims to get, it's easy to see why something that defines itself against that channel of promotion would stand out
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:57 (fourteen years ago)
...to people who dont like music that is promoted that way?
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:58 (fourteen years ago)
I didn't make any claims about the audience?
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:59 (fourteen years ago)
you can be into radio R&B and still take note of this?
well you made an assumption about it standing out to *someone* so im trying to get an idea of who you meant
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:59 (fourteen years ago)
people who blog, obv
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 05:00 (fourteen years ago)
another question to consider is if this mixtape hadn't gone through cool-tumblrs-of-note and instead went through some elektrik red type channel of promotion, would it still be notable
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 05:03 (fourteen years ago)
im just trying to say there are grey areas of that process that maybe ARE a little more insidious or imbued with deeper meaning
yeah, sure i was just tryna look @ it from the artists pov, more than anything. like @ some pt we are all making conscious choices abt what we pay attn to but idk maybe you overestimate how easy it is to hear ~mainstream rnb~ given certain choices. like i dont have a car or a job where i can listen to the radio or a radio at home or cable. like it was easier for me to hear a new raw moans remix than it was to hear the dawn richards mixtape. so sure im making a choice abt which tumblrs/youtubes/gchat msgs im paying attn to but all the good r&b i hear is bcuz of ilm or other web stuff too yknow??
― i always think about you (Lamp), Sunday, 27 March 2011 05:13 (fourteen years ago)
i mean just to be unambiguous about any bias or agenda people may reasonably think i have: tbh i DO feel like there ideally SHOULD be more discussion about mainstream R&B among ANY critics/publications that consider themselves generalist or open-minded or as interested in urban music as rock or dance or w/e. and when someone like The-Dream gets a nice critical momentum going, i feel like that IS a step forward, and the next step forward might be another artist of similar mainstream profile getting more critical ink (and i won't throw out an example because then the discussion becomes about whether that example is good enough or comparable or w/e, but you know, someone who's had at least one or two hits). so when what feels like a rising level of critical interest in R&B starts getting directed at something like The Weeknd (or The xx or How To Dress Well or Yacht, you name it), i do admit that yeah, it feels a little like a step back, in terms of the critical community staying within an aesthetic comfort zone, letting R&B-influenced music meet them halfway instead of venturing out into finding more things to champion among the sea of good and bad mainstream R&B.
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 05:14 (fourteen years ago)
this is further from r&b then I was expecting from the hype/discussion. heavy on atmosphere, light on hooks. I would love more r&b meets indie, but in a way that doesn't take some of the obvious sign posts and point them downward. its soulful crooning but its sad. its techno but its sad. And I like sad music but most of this goes that way too obviously. I get the end of the party, emotions blown out vibe, but I'm not all that convinced the party was ever fun or that there was some other emotion taking place aside from desperate pleading. In short, needs more contrast. I'd like a few more tracks free of the dubstep/triphop beats. like 'loft music' the best.
― bnw, Sunday, 27 March 2011 06:05 (fourteen years ago)
I get the end of the party, emotions blown out vibe, but I'm not all that convinced the party was ever fun or that there was some other emotion taking place aside from desperate pleading.
some would say this adds to the appeal
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 06:12 (fourteen years ago)
just for the record i should say i wasn't writing about this thread -- i was listening to the record and following twitter conversation, then came here while writing to see if people were saying the same stuff! i think the issues surrounding this are just super-fascinating to me because i listen to a good amount of r&b lately, and when i listen to weeknd it feels especially clear that, like ... "this r&b is activating pleasure centers i associate with indie records" -- but it feels difficult to pinpoint specifically what sounds/choices/values are involved in doing that.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Sunday, 27 March 2011 09:19 (fourteen years ago)
tim f otm
so when what feels like a rising level of critical interest in R&B starts getting directed at something like The Weeknd (or The xx or How To Dress Well or Yacht, you name it), i do admit that yeah, it feels a little like a step back, in terms of the critical community staying within an aesthetic comfort zone, letting R&B-influenced music meet them halfway instead of venturing out into finding more things to champion among the sea of good and bad mainstream R&B.
some dude otm
And I like sad music but most of this goes that way too obviously. I get the end of the party, emotions blown out vibe, but I'm not all that convinced the party was ever fun or that there was some other emotion taking place aside from desperate pleading
bnw otm
(i'm too hungover to have thoughts of my own atm)
― lex pretend, Sunday, 27 March 2011 11:11 (fourteen years ago)
fyi dudes, here's a screwed version of this
http://www.thug.com/the-weeknd-house-of-balloons-chopped-screwed/
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 11:42 (fourteen years ago)
man Trick Daddy's website fell off
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 11:59 (fourteen years ago)
hahah literal lol
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 12:02 (fourteen years ago)
lol @ needing the screwed version to start paying attention to the lyrics. but yeah, lyric-wise this seems different than typical R&B - like he says 'she'll probably OD before I get a chance to show her to my mom' or something like that (paraphrasing) - acknowledgement of the nihilism of cobrasnake style coked out runway parties. like this is maybe the kind of self-destructive gloss that kanye was going for in MBDTF except it does feel kind of genuine here.
anyway maybe the weeknd will be R&B's version of OFWGKTA. just puttin it out there
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 14:02 (fourteen years ago)
anyway once I put away my R&B ears, this is nice. love the languid opulent crust to the screwed version
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 14:07 (fourteen years ago)
also the milieu is p different - the songs are set at house parties @ the homes and flats of rich ppl (or maybe just his friends), not nightclubs
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 14:51 (fourteen years ago)
you'd prob find terry richardson at one of these parties idk
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, 27 March 2011 14:52 (fourteen years ago)
it's not like all mainstream R&B is super urban and clubby -- lot of good stuff that either doesn't evoke such a specific setting or has enough of a yuppie/bougie vibe that it would work as well in a loft or posh house party. like Ryan Leslie was just brought up in the other Weeknd thread and the last Maxwell album kinda has that vibe imo.
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Sunday, 27 March 2011 15:32 (fourteen years ago)
mixtape versh of the morning is so beautiful as a thing im tryna light a cigarette but my hands are shaking too much
― plax (ico), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:48 (fourteen years ago)
I agree with deej about this being weirdly unmemorablebut they sound like baby dreams (figuratively and literally) and it's their first mix so they're just getting comfy.compare like ANY track on this album to "Kelly's 12 Play" and you instantly see how flimsy they are in comparison and how much they're biting his steezbut that don't mean they're not worth a listen or a 900 post shitstorm thread cuz they clearly are
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:50 (fourteen years ago)
and i DO like this a lot the morning after
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:51 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 10:51 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark
even more evidence for the drake file
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:54 (fourteen years ago)
maxwell is on a vibe that basically no one else is at the moment (or at least no one really prominent), with the whole live band thing.
― adult music person (Jordan), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:55 (fourteen years ago)
also the music itself is incredibly narcotic (one of the reasons why it lends itself well to being c&s) so it would sorta make sense that the songs are about ppl that are coked out & what not
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:56 (fourteen years ago)
re: maxwell, i think saadiq is on the same level? haven't seen maxwell live so couldn't swear
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:57 (fourteen years ago)
also the cobrasnake thing is telegraphed pretty baldly in the album cover
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Monday, 28 March 2011 21:58 (fourteen years ago)
but saadiq is deep into his whole analog retro thing, while maxwell isn't going for retro at all.
― adult music person (Jordan), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:08 (fourteen years ago)
yeah, but live (or at least at the last live show i was at) saadiq drops all the retro shit and just kinda poses and thrusts hips and sings hitstho tbf i have seen his retro schtick show as well and it's a lot less fun
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:10 (fourteen years ago)
sure, but i mean there's not a lot of live band r&b on record these days, or at least not a lot that i'm hearing. especially with a-list players like maxwell has.
― adult music person (Jordan), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:14 (fourteen years ago)
man he really needs to hurry up and put out the next album, last one was so good
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:16 (fourteen years ago)
I wasn't in love with it but "Big Easy" and "Staying in Love" have made a few comps.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:17 (fourteen years ago)
pretty sure some dude is talking about maxwell, in which case i agree. listened to it twice on a long drive last weekend.
― adult music person (Jordan), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:18 (fourteen years ago)
so glad he is making proper use of chris dave in the studio.
― adult music person (Jordan), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:19 (fourteen years ago)
yeah meant Maxwell, since the follow-up to BLACKsummers'night has supposedly be more or less in the can since before that album's release and still has no release date
― corkslovetoscrew (some dude), Monday, 28 March 2011 22:22 (fourteen years ago)
― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:54 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
lol should I be paying attention to drake :/
― who is john nult? (dayo), Monday, 28 March 2011 23:21 (fourteen years ago)
GOD NO
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Monday, 28 March 2011 23:38 (fourteen years ago)
not unless you are doing so with a bat aimed at every microphone he gets near
best new music yall
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 12:13 (fourteen years ago)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/mar/29/the-weeknd-rnb
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 12:14 (fourteen years ago)
http://www.thirteen.org/riffcity/love-and-other-drugs-the-weeknds-altered-state-rb/
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 12:18 (fourteen years ago)
lex offtm
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 12:25 (fourteen years ago)
The group's penchant for druggy atmospherics is mirrored in their lyrical content, which is overtly sexual, narcotics-focused, and occasionally downright frightening. Debauchery is obviously nothing new in R&B, but this takes it a step further-- the drugs are harder, the come-ons feel predatory and lecherous, and the general feeling is self-hating rather than celebratory.
While Drake himself dabbles in longing when he’s not crooning about his swag, whether by success or general nice-guy demeanor, he could never sound quite as convincingly on the verge of a delicate breakdown as this dude. The music is almost nihilistic in its total committal to feeling good. Like The Weeknd’s appeals for love, sex, drugs, are simply distractions before the end of the world.
these two quotes capture the appeal for me, and it's why this mixtape takes me to an emotional space that other R&B doesn't. sure, by itself the production is nothing new, but combined with the detached, glassy-eyed dead-inside lyrics & the quavering delivery, it becomes something more. it doesn't really feel like R&B so much as R&B appropriated for something else. like, it works because there's a constant tension between his voice and the lyrical content - and those f-bombs and n-words, they def stand out, but it's because you feel like it's false bravado, that somehow he's found himself at this party of the young and rich and needs to convince himself that he too can belong there, can hang.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 12:55 (fourteen years ago)
I never really listened to trip-hop and I have a few portishead albums but I don't listen to them too much so idk
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 12:56 (fourteen years ago)
Like The Weeknd’s appeals for love, sex, drugs, are simply distractions before the end of the world.
the idea that this is something unique to this group is wild to me though. tons of R&B is about this either directly or indirectly
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 13:50 (fourteen years ago)
this is reiterating tim's post but it's just done so obviously it reminds me of when you're a teenager & you drink for the first time & its like a Big Deal or something. so you talk about it a lot. Dudes, we should try to get some beers! or weed it works with that too. its just sort of naively obvious w/ this stuff
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 13:52 (fourteen years ago)
I feel like it's the bleak nihilism of it all that appeals. there probably is a ton of R&B out there that deals with this (suggestions?) but maybe not as directly? I feel like there's a immolation of ego here, or rather an imbrication of self with surrounding that's lacking from other stuff, where usually there's at least hope for redemption of the singer.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 13:57 (fourteen years ago)
Least convincing / most lol-worthy aspect of The Weeknd's quick rise to Internet fame
― ilxor you've listened to one odd future album once (ilxor), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 14:06 (fourteen years ago)
hey ilxor, funny thread title, thanks for contributing, glad you stopped by
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 14:06 (fourteen years ago)
thanking u for display name
― hey ilxor, thanks for contributing, glad you stopped by (ilxor), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 14:09 (fourteen years ago)
feel like you should indicate you made an edit you asshole
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 14:09 (fourteen years ago)
^^ i made an edit
honestly i would've used the whole thing but it was 2 characters too long :(
― hey ilxor, thanks for contributing, glad you stopped by (ilxor), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 14:11 (fourteen years ago)
okay someone should have told me that "Happy House" was sampled on one of these tracks and I would have been way less reserved in my like of this
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 16:14 (fourteen years ago)
this should help: one of the B-sides is a cover of INXS's "What You Need"
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 16:15 (fourteen years ago)
tombreihan Tom BreihanBritish people, man. What the fuck. http://bit.ly/hNUJ7U55 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
― Pop is superior to all other genres (DL), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 16:28 (fourteen years ago)
Lex, I have read your piece in the Guardian with great interest. One thing that sticks out for me - having read this thread, liking The Weeknd and not being an overall RnB afficionado - is that you approach The Weeknd from almost a purist's notion of what RnB is/should be.
"the further away it gets from its formalist roots, the more praise is lavished on it."
This may be true in Fennessey's case, or others', because they approach the Weeknd from their 'indie-realm'. The diametrical opposite though could be said about your point of view: "the closer it gets to its formalist roots, the more praise is lavished on it". The point of your piece seems to be that there is way purer (and better) RnB around, and that - the headline says it all - "Most RnB fans have better things to listen to". Of which you give a multitude of examples after that.
I understand taking a - in your view - bad example of RnB, works quite well to write about what you think RnB is/should be. But you don't go into what, if anything, the Weeknd signifies. You only say it's not that good, not in terms of songcraft, in emotion etc. You don't trace it back to any roots, or connect it to anything. Basically you merely state that you don't know what the fuss is all about.
Which is fair enough I suppose, but as embarrassing as Fennessey's statement is, you can't deny that the Weeknd (and some acts before them, like HTDW) are doing something new/different with RnB. Even if you don't like it, or perceive it - quite lazily in my opinion - as "The addition of vaguely lo-fi chillwave textures are a lazy way of connoting darkness" (ugh). It would be at least worth it to investigate.
The Weeknd might increase my fondness for RnB a little bit more. Just like HTDW did. I for one do not care one iota about if there is "nothing shocking" about the Weeknd. There's enough "nothing shocking" music out there that I love. I get The Weeknd and enjoy the 'dirtiness' of it. The edge it has to it (which is not LOL-lofi-chillwave *at all* to me) made it easier for me to get in there. Telling me there's a whole slew of artists that make better RnB will not change that. But then again, as noted from the headline, you did not write this piece for me or people like me, but for what you perceive to be "most RnB fans".
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 16:44 (fourteen years ago)
this whole thing is just that standard internet meme of claiming that anyone who likes "thing y" does so because they think it's "genre x", and then insisting this is the case because you are so annoyed at the fools who think "stupid point z". then searching the net far and wide for people to support this awful view you hate.
it's like....look out the window, there's a world outside music criticism.
― LocalGarda, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 16:55 (fourteen years ago)
"The disproportionate attention accorded to the Weeknd is reflective of an attitude towards R&B that just won't seem to die: the further away it gets from its formalist roots, the more praise is lavished on it."
^ agree w/ lex here -- but to be fair, doesn't "the further away it gets from its formalist roots, the more praise is lavished on it" apply to pretty much every "traditional"/older genre that indie critics cover? e.g., rock, metal, folk, etc. etc.
― hey ilxor, thanks for contributing, glad you stopped by (ilxor), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 16:58 (fourteen years ago)
I'd probably like this group's music more if I knew nothing about the sub-Last-Night's-Party tawdry image they were pushing.
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:00 (fourteen years ago)
Then again "debauchery into shattered emptiness" is not really where I go for kicks these days, anyway.
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:04 (fourteen years ago)
one of those comebacks that says more about the person making it, right? the people who've cosigned me vs the people who've taken offense = vindication tbh
you can't deny that the Weeknd (and some acts before them, like HTDW) are doing something new/different with RnB
idk, i really don't think they are though - i don't think the mood they try to evoke is particularly different from anything that's been common in r&b, i don't think there's anything particularly distinct about their production (cf 40, bei maejor) - all that's distinct is the anonymity and ~mystique~ and sense that they've come from ~the underground~.
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:07 (fourteen years ago)
"the further away it gets from its formalist roots, the more praise is lavished on it" apply to pretty much every "traditional"/older genre that indie critics cover? e.g., rock, metal, folk, etc. etc.
btw by "formalist roots" i don't just mean trad maxwell-style r&b! dawn richard's booty-popping swag fits in this as well. could you imagine the weeknd sneering "i'm on my superman shit, whippin up town, blowin up shit" with just the right attitude that dawn does lol
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:08 (fourteen years ago)
Tom is my homie from way back and i enjoy his writing about a lot of different music but on the rare occasion he writes about R&B it's on some boring "how great is Beyonce" ish so yeah
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:09 (fourteen years ago)
its kind of amazing how much work it took to get ppl to pay attention to the-dream vs this when the-dream is 100x better & still w/in this 'indie people like this for a reason' (per nabisco) aesthetic
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:11 (fourteen years ago)
this entire mess summed up so concisely by a random girl i don't know on someone else's fbook profile
C****** N*** 'underground discovers urban' omgz44 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:12 (fourteen years ago)
D-40 otm
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:13 (fourteen years ago)
But then again, as noted from the headline, you did not write this piece for me or people like me, but for what you perceive to be "most RnB fans".
it's not like they commonly get anything written for them in the mainstream music press so yeah, i'll take that
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:16 (fourteen years ago)
It's a useful response. Without the "only a fool" line and naming Fennessey, I don't see anything in there to get riled up about.
― Pop is superior to all other genres (DL), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:18 (fourteen years ago)
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:11 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is tied into the point i made upthread & on my blog. your point is right & the reason is just straight up marketing & promotion. clearly the weeknd targeted pitchfork & blogs and as such their first mp3s made a big splash immediately. if they were trying to push this thru normal a&r channels we might not even have heard of it yet or if they were just aiming for a straight r&b audience like the-dream they'd probably be in the same position as like timothy bloom
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:24 (fourteen years ago)
i feel bad when convos like this start to feel like one group scolding another for not listening to the right stuff, because honestly it should be like hey if you think that's dope R&B you really need to hear this other stuff that's just incredible! spread the love!
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:28 (fourteen years ago)
^^^^^^OTM
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:29 (fourteen years ago)
honestly it should be like hey if you think that's dope R&B you really need to hear this other stuff that's just incredible! spread the love!
It would help though if they would listen to my Vandross-Freddie Jackson comps though.
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:30 (fourteen years ago)
feel very odd bringing this up -- lol too much time on ilx -- but honestly i keep thinking of this statement strongo made back in the mists of time, that sooner or later the white kids with spock haircuts were going to try to sound like timbaland
― goole, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:31 (fourteen years ago)
idk, i bring up dope r&b all the time and there's no way it gets a hundredth of the attention my more uh aggressive stance does.
or as tom ewing put it on tumblr:
The question “hold on, why are you paying attention to this stuff and not to that stuff?” is a) fundamental, b) often hard to ask politely, c) very much in the interests of the attention-payers not to answer. So trolling works as a way of asking it, for me.
(i don't think i'm trolling though!)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:33 (fourteen years ago)
okay correct me if I'm wrong but no one I can find in any of the pictures of The Weeknd that pop up on GIS are actually white...?
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:34 (fourteen years ago)
hope not cuz theyre dropping nbombs like no tomorrow
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:35 (fourteen years ago)
The Weeknd dude is not white.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:36 (fourteen years ago)
“hold on, why are you paying attention to this stuff and not to that stuff?”
is how i feel abt ppl who listen to salem & not dj screw
― flopson, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:39 (fourteen years ago)
i don't dislike salem particularly but it's p much an exact parallel yeah
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:39 (fourteen years ago)
is how i feel abt ppl who listen to salem & not dj screw anything else
― Andy K, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:40 (fourteen years ago)
tbf Salem is fucking awful by any metric
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:40 (fourteen years ago)
also, in light of this being a discussion about a black dude making music who was signed by another black dude, could we maybe think a few times before leaning so heavily on the "this is what happens when white people try R&B" arguments?
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:43 (fourteen years ago)
I don't think it took people long to pay attention the-dream, deej. At what point in the-dream's output do you think people should have been paying attention, and, more importantly, what distribution channels would have allowed them to do so?
When the-dream-produced snoop dogg song played on MTV and mainstream rap radio, that earned him recognition by a lot of ordinary non-music-journalist folks. On the other hand, if I weren't on ilx and if I didn't open pitchfork for a few days, who knows when I would have heard of the weeknd.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:43 (fourteen years ago)
indie people maybe?
or just shut-in people
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:43 (fourteen years ago)
Canadian is the white of the world
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:44 (fourteen years ago)
xxxp they are not going to start thinking that way.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:44 (fourteen years ago)
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:44 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
irl lol
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:45 (fourteen years ago)
bamcquern his debut album was almost completely ignored by critics -- this is pretty much an inarguable fact
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:46 (fourteen years ago)
if the 'people' we're talking about are sites like Pitchfork, PF didn't review The-Dream until his 3rd album and only included his 2nd in an 'honorable mention' addendum to a year-end list
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:47 (fourteen years ago)
1. Nobody cares about critics, certainly not your average listener.2. As an average listener who doesn't care about critics, it seemed that his first album got plenty of attention. It's the two after that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:50 (fourteen years ago)
No, the "people" I'm talking about are me and people I know who listen to the radio and ask me if I've heard x song.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:51 (fourteen years ago)
British people, man. What the fuck.
haha this dude otm
― em.pty HOLD (Lamp), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:52 (fourteen years ago)
Because nobody actually cares about pitchfork. I don't even read their reviews when I go there; I just scan the titles and go back to ilx.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:52 (fourteen years ago)
maybe you've noticed that the audience being discussed 90% of the time ITT is people who don't listen to R&B radio and read blogs or are critics themselves
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:53 (fourteen years ago)
hmmmmm
― em.pty HOLD (Lamp), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:54 (fourteen years ago)
I was looking at Metacritic because of another album (ahem) and kind of lolling that the Pitchfork review was on the bottom of the "most clicked" list (the top was Tiny Mix Tapes, oddly-to-me)
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:54 (fourteen years ago)
You have to consider more goes people discover music in this conversation and not so much what their tastes or motivations for listening are. People like r&b. It's not something only you guys like because you have special nonracist ears.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:55 (fourteen years ago)
How, not goes
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:56 (fourteen years ago)
ok thanks for playing Donnie in The Big Lebowski itt, your contributions have been very entertaining
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:57 (fourteen years ago)
also in what alternative universe was "Gangsta Luv" at all a significant moment of exposure for The-Dream
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 17:59 (fourteen years ago)
--i like weeknd though & think they are making worthwhile music w/ a good balance of reverence/traditionalism & novelty, feel salem lean way too heavy on the latter & their music doesn't feel like they understand how achingly beautiful dj screw music can be, how deep/low it is, how it crawls etc.
i got into contemporary r&b via reading ilx so obv the argument u dudes are putting forward is a salient one to me. but idk i just don't feel like listening to it that often & don't feel the need to explore it too far. like flopson r&b canon is like, confessions, terius discography, aaliyah s/t, tp-2 & kelly's 12 play, b-day. not saying i'm satisfied forever but just like, this morning i listened to the marsha ambrosius album, & it was ok but i don't expect i'll listen again, besides a few songs. i'm into the genre & it satisfies a partic need i have but i'm not invested in it the same way i am w rap or something, where i want to hear pretty much everything good ever. i suspect a lot of weeknd fans are casual r&b fans with some small subsection of r&b in their pockets who since they aren't so heavily rooted in the tradition of the genre are more eager abt stuff on the periphery of r&b
― flopson, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:00 (fourteen years ago)
a little goes a long way w/ R&B, i agree with you on that -- there aren't THAT many mainstream R&B albums released in a given year and they're not all great after all.
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:02 (fourteen years ago)
In this universe, because it exposed me to him on cable tv where I have considerably less autonomy about the music I'm exposed to than on the internet. And if you're focused on media outlets that matter and that potentially review r&b records, and not listeners of mainstream rap and r&b radio, then you're taking about a very few individuals' editorial policies, which means you're saying very little that's meaningful. Unpaid blog writing certainly doesn't count because there are thousands of those and you can self-select.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:06 (fourteen years ago)
I haven't seen the big lebowski.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:07 (fourteen years ago)
xxp yeah! and it seems reasonably unique imo. like aside from 1 or 2 things on the thread jaxon started, nothing really captures the vibe of this. not saying theres not other r+b stuff that does, im sure its out there. i feel like lex is just angry that its self-hating and not congratulatory fwiw
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:08 (fourteen years ago)
Wait, flopson is talking about how much the guys from Salem don't understand the "aching beauty" of DJ screw and not their music itself?
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:09 (fourteen years ago)
what
― flopson, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:12 (fourteen years ago)
ok well ive got class in ten minutes & have to eat a sub before so itèll have to wait i guess
― flopson, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:18 (fourteen years ago)
have fun eating a sub and not reading the thread, whiney
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:19 (fourteen years ago)
bamcquern also have we considered the plight of those hermits living in a cave these past four years who understandably will have no idea of The-Dream at al? If they only emerged in the last week it'd make total sense that they were into The Weeknd but not The-Dream yet. It's not a conspiracy though! We really should think about such people before jumping to inane, unsustainable conclusions like "The Weeknd has gotten more internet hype in 1 week than The-Dream got in 1 year."
― Tim F, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 20:21 (fourteen years ago)
feel salem lean way too heavy on the latter & their music doesn't feel like they understand how achingly beautiful dj screw music can be, how deep/low it is, how it crawls etc
Think it's your wording, flopson, rather than what you meant. No offense to you :)
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 20:31 (fourteen years ago)
http://i54.tinypic.com/9sf0qd.jpg
― hey ilxor, thanks for contributing, glad you stopped by (ilxor), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:08 (fourteen years ago)
wow the founder of Pitchfork digs the album Pitchfork just named 'best new music,' great find dude
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:13 (fourteen years ago)
this whole thread plays like a superiority contest btw its totally gross
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:18 (fourteen years ago)
you just won the contest btw
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:20 (fourteen years ago)
nothing but generalizations and judgmental assholes imo
― bnw, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:22 (fourteen years ago)
Srsly though who apart from lex has been remotely judgmental in this thread?
Why does indie dudes get so butthurt about their taste in stuff?
― Tim F, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:35 (fourteen years ago)
yeah idk maybe not w/e
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 21:37 (fourteen years ago)
god i'm such an idiot--srly thought i had a chance in the superiority contest
― flopson, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:10 (fourteen years ago)
cheer up; with that attitude you stand a good chance at the inferiority contest
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:13 (fourteen years ago)
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/homer.jpg
― flopson, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:16 (fourteen years ago)
it's not like they commonly get anything written for them in the mainstream music press so yeah, i'll take that― lex pretend, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:16 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark
― lex pretend, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:16 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark
keep on thinking of whoever said earlier in the thread that lex treats pitchfork as his NYT of music journalism
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:42 (fourteen years ago)
at some point it's just like, stop hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself
it kind of is that though. pretty much all music critics orient themselves around it
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:44 (fourteen years ago)
like, daily newspaper critics in the major papers consistently cover pitchfork acts. odd future was on the 1st page of the nyt
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:45 (fourteen years ago)
kinda doubt that jon caramanica is getting his cues from pitchfork?
― max, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:45 (fourteen years ago)
don't you understand, you're playing by their rules
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:45 (fourteen years ago)
not sure what jon gets his cues from right now
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:47 (fourteen years ago)
but i doubt its his decision what page his piece runs on
I am certain that NYT's decision to run a piece about a musical collective of young black men saying violent, repellent shit was wholly driven by Pitchfork approval
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:49 (fourteen years ago)
very much doubt that scott veale is getting his cues from pitchfork
― max, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:51 (fourteen years ago)
maybe not directly but cmon. the entire culture of music criticism has formed around the pfork canon. how else do u explain pnj results the last few years
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:52 (fourteen years ago)
'around' btw doesnt mean 'replicating' but rather the idea that everyone must engage w/ pfork-acclaimed artists
whether pro or con
Huh.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:53 (fourteen years ago)
anyway lex thinking that the only reason this album 'blew up' is because of 'chillwave production' & a bunch of tumblrs is evidence of lex ngi
feel like if it was an album of female-empowerment anthems lex would be all up on it tho
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:54 (fourteen years ago)
feel like we need a spin-off thread soon, is pitchfork really the center of the music criticism universe
― who is john nult? (dayo), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:55 (fourteen years ago)
the entire culture of music criticism has formed around the pfork canon. how else do u explain pnj results the last few years
Music criticism as a field is imploding and the same 50 people write for overlapping venues?
― 'lol u stuck with me now watch this ass expand, joeks on u' (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:55 (fourteen years ago)
why is indie central to music canons now in a way it wasnt a decade ago
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:57 (fourteen years ago)
im not saying there arent critics out there who work outside this obv ... i consider myself one. but cmon, the critical discourse is now oriented around the idea that indie records are consistently some of the most important & interesting records in a given year, and critics around the country / world reinforce that
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:58 (fourteen years ago)
using the big picture umbrella 'indie' here not just the national or w/e
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Tuesday, 29 March 2011 23:59 (fourteen years ago)
i mean its kind of funny to listen to people go IF YOU DONT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT HOW GREAT INDIE IS DONT READ PITCHFORK READ VIBE OR THE SOURCE & its like, do you think i can get an unsigned hype rapper article in a local paper faster than i can get an article on the weeknd into one? who is the editor paying attention to -- the one pitchfork critics are making a lot of noise about, or the one that source critics are making a lot of noise about
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:01 (fourteen years ago)
im not saying there arent critics out there who work outside this obv ... i consider myself one.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:01 (fourteen years ago)
why is that 'lol' to you
i feel bad for ppl showing up earlier in this thread naively 'enjoying the music' like mindless automatons. when will they learn to augment their listening by addressing the more fundamental issue that their emotional response takes place in a cultural space poisoned by ryan schreiber's ignorant hegemony. stop taking the blue pill guys
― ogmor, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:02 (fourteen years ago)
feel like you and lex spend so much time railing against the pitchfork hegemony that you two have become defined by your antipathy towards p4k, i.e. those who are always seeking to decenter the discourse end up becoming defined by the center *shrug*
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:03 (fourteen years ago)
except that doesnt describe my actual stance at all. i dont spend most of my writing time disparaging pitchfork acts, at all
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:04 (fourteen years ago)
i dont even think they should necessarily be disparaged. i dont rail against it 'because' its pitchfork. i like some groups that happen to be 'pfork bands' and some who arent. i write about acts that i think deserve critical attention, whether or not they fit into a preconceived idea of what pfork listeners 'like' but based on whether i like it & think it deserves those ears
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:05 (fourteen years ago)
so you've never complained about the rappers that p4k covers, or how p4k isn't covering enough of the rap & R&B you like?
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:05 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:05 AM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
no, i got a job w/ them and wrote about the ones i like
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:07 (fourteen years ago)
to be clear here,
1) i criticize certain artists for being generally not good vs. consensus, or underrated vs. consensus2) i dont criticize 'pitchfork' or blame pitchfork for its audience or who its trying to target3) i do think the pfork effect is damaging & unnecessarily and unfairly privileges certain kinds of artists -- and again, this isnt the site's fault per se -- but the way critics treat it as the center of the critical world is unfortunate
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:09 (fourteen years ago)
1) i criticize certain artists for being generally not good vs. consensus, or underrated vs. consensus
this is what I mean - if consensus for you is primarily determined by p4k, and you spend your time evaluating things against the p4k consensus, then...
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:10 (fourteen years ago)
fact is, as we've talked about like 9million times on ilx before, pitchfork isnt an entity in & of itself you can 'blame.' maybe you dont like what a specific writer does, or an editorial decision or direction someone has made. but its a group of ppl. the problem comes in when people take those individual opinions as being THE authority on music & that happens all the time. any small-scale band that happens to get a bnm is going to be in newspapers around the country for the forseeable future. that doesnt happen w/ say rappers in the source or bands in whatever metal mag is hot right now.
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:11 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:10 AM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
sure but i dont blame pitchfork. i blame the ppl who let pitchfork become this dominant voice! the people who think that they're missing out if they dont reflect what pitchfork is talking about, that few places w/ any kind of audience are willing to take a dramatic & unique step towards having another worldview. The Source tried it by giving the bun b record 5 mics & that was like :-/
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:14 (fourteen years ago)
3) i do think the pfork effect is damaging & unnecessarily and unfairly privileges certain kinds of artists -- and again, this isnt the site's fault per se -- but the way critics treat it as the center of the critical world is unfortunate
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:09 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i should mention that this is contingent on it being a place that continues to target one 'indie' audience -- like, you cant have it both ways, where its either a) 'if you want to read about rap treated fairly read another publication' or b) i think it should cover other genres fairly
so, 3) is only true if i'm forced to agree with a)
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:16 (fourteen years ago)
say im a music writer who wants to pitch a piece on kendrick lamar OR the weeknd. who do u think a big-city newspaper is likely to cover first (removing home team advantage from both artists -- no LA Weekly or Toronto whatever)
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:19 (fourteen years ago)
(lamar fyi was on xxl's 'freshman' cover)
(And this isnt even the big city paper editor's fault ... because he might just be responding to the level noise he hears from other critics/writers around him)
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:20 (fourteen years ago)
all assertions of taste are displays of arrogance but the game being played here is basically subhuman. still cant get over that lex quote above either, guess i lose too
sometimes i think its funnie bcuz at the core theres this you dont know it feels subtext like 'im the real head' but ppl nvr seem to cop to not being real ~indie~ headz, nvr seem to cop to their fundamental ignorance re: the horizons & just sleep under the ole pines &c &c &c
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:28 (fourteen years ago)
heres a really short way of summing up all these posts
pitchfork thinks about how its going to review things; sometimes i agree, sometimes i disagree, as do much of the staff and readership im sure
pitchfork publishes one of those opinions
there's an impact where 99% of newspaper critics feel obligated to listen to the band pitchfork is talking about & decide whether they are pro or anti (to show independence)
rather than looking at music independently, or locally, or thinking, what if i just decided not to listen to this bnm, and instead listened to this bengalese marching music? or this song i havent heard people talk about?
it doesnt mean you need to pretend to like things you dont like. it just means you might stop limiting yourself so heavily to the music covered by the site. imo, many critics end up so caught up in indie that it limits their view of music outside it
anyway, this is all imo obv & in no way represents the view of the site or anything else should go w/out saying.
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:30 (fourteen years ago)
dog, you're turning into that p4k dude
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:32 (fourteen years ago)
except im not actually talking about p4k itt
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:37 (fourteen years ago)
or anything that goes on w/ it -- im talking about how their taste is received in the wider world of critics
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:38 (fourteen years ago)
ok dude
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:42 (fourteen years ago)
im really confused by why lamp thinks this is a 'superiority contest.' we're just explaining that we think a record doesnt deserve acclaim & apparently thats being a huge meanie. cmon even the ppl who agree w/ lex overall on the band have distanced themselves or criticized his rhetoric. its ok to think something is good that other people dont w/out getting defensive about it
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:42 (fourteen years ago)
fact is, as we've talked about like 9million times on ilx before, pitchfork isnt an entity in & of itself you can 'blame.'
Further, the fact that Pitchfork exemplifies this kind of thing is really a historical accident (albeit one that is now self-reinforcing) - if it disappeared tomorrow that wouldn't kill off (or even substantially wound) indie-privileging any more than WaPo's or Fox News' the Guardian's disappearance would kill off the kind of political sensibilities those media organs are associated with. Obviously in the case of the Weeknd Pitchfork naming it BNM is more of a gateway for hype than a source of it.
In particular, the privileging of genre-transgressing indie-friendly takes on popular music long pre-exists Pitchfork and also has replicated itself in any number of areas of music not traditionally within Pitchfork' purview.
I think what interests me about comparing the hype-cycles of The-Dream and Weeknd is the sense that innovation within genres takes longer to be recognised than innovation across genres. And this is not just about people being motivated to check stuff out: it's also that The-Dream's rep as some kind of avant auteur wasn't even really being pushed by boosters of the first album, it was just "this is some real good really lovely sounding R&B". It's like, the language of innovation just doesn't come to mind until later, and the contours of difference only become prominent in retrospect.
Cross-genre innovation is sharper in this respect, but also maybe shallower - not in the sense of the music not being good or not being "deep", but in the sense that the sense that the music is doing something novel is more immediately apparent but for that very reason has a use-by-date - unless the Weeknd substantially changes its style it's difficult to imagine it still being hyped by album number 3.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:43 (fourteen years ago)
yah that feels right. in this sense pfork operates as a choke pt / magnifier, its not a generator of 'indie' but rather warring sensibilities
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:48 (fourteen years ago)
i suspect a lot of weeknd fans are casual r&b fans with some small subsection of r&b in their pockets who since they aren't so heavily rooted in the tradition of the genre are more eager abt stuff on the periphery of r&b
Also this statement really rings true for me, and not just in R&B and not just about indie listeners.
Like, this is basically an across the board epistomological truth of music-listening, that the less heavily invested you are in a genre the more interested you are in stuff occurring on its "periphery", and the more value you discern in exploring those margins.
When, logically, you'd think it'd be the other way round.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:51 (fourteen years ago)
me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdQh26ovW0Y
D-40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlBTPITo1I
'indie only knows the warm grave, the cold embrace. ravens wings, oh ravens wings, we sing...'
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:51 (fourteen years ago)
― Tim F, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:51 AM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
weird contradiction to this might be that point in the late 90s / early 00s where pop rap & 'rap' rap were overlapping heavily, it seemed like
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:54 (fourteen years ago)
Was pop rap really a periphery of rap though?
My argument only applies in respect of stuff consciously presenting or presented as peripheral.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:56 (fourteen years ago)
i.e. Pitbull appearing on a J Lo single isn't selfconsciously transgressive in the way that the Weeknd is.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 00:57 (fourteen years ago)
i was thinking people who think 'i only want to be peripherally involved in rap' often were just listening to top 40 which at that time was a pretty good representation of rap qua rap
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:00 (fourteen years ago)
Oh okay, I think that is a slightly different sensibility though true elsewhere as well - e.g. people who aren't heavily invested in dance music except for crossover hits (also quite representative at certain times).
Obv. late 90s / early 00s rap periphery: ClouDDEAD, Cannibal Ox/El-P
Maybe a kind of threshold case is say, Timbaland, whose late 90s/early 00s work both could be set up as genre-transgressive and genre-organic, depending on how you framed it.
You could imagine two people listening to the same record at that point and thinking "I like this because it (such an unusual twist on OR perfectly exemplifies) the core values of R&B / rap" depending on the narrative they used to frame the record.
(Timbaland also falling into the "only listens to chart hits" category at that point as well)
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:06 (fourteen years ago)
when I did my little bit of research about the last P&J singles poll and about how statistically it's less pop and more niche/indie than it used to be, Lamp and some other people acted like I was going to bumrush their homes and take away their National CDs or petition the Voice to change the way they tabulate ballots. even if you try to write descriptively (rather than prescriptively) about the state of music criticism and prevailing trends and biases it seems to trigger astrong "it's Chinatown...NO SERIOUSLY JUST FORGET ABOUT IT" response.
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:19 (fourteen years ago)
this still sounds pretty good btw
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:22 (fourteen years ago)
it's endured two weeks!
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:26 (fourteen years ago)
Just like Rebecca Black!
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:26 (fourteen years ago)
and Pitchfork!
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:31 (fourteen years ago)
And Fukushima radiation and no fly zones and...
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:33 (fourteen years ago)
★partying partying/looking fwd to the weeknd ★
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:33 (fourteen years ago)
― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:59 (6 days ago) Bookmark
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 01:39 (fourteen years ago)
man lex your article is fucking up the game man
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 03:54 (fourteen years ago)
http://mimswings.tumblr.com/post/4197885586/frank-ocean-the-weeknd-pbr-b-and-the-further
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:11 (fourteen years ago)
i join this crew who thinks frank ocean >>>
when I did my little bit of research about the last P&J singles poll and about how statistically it's less pop and more niche/indie than it used to be, Lamp and some other people acted like I was going to bumrush their homes and take away their National CDs or petition the Voice to change the way they tabulate ballots. even if you try to write descriptively (rather than prescriptively) about the state of music criticism and prevailing trends and biases it seems to trigger astrong "it's Chinatown...NO SERIOUSLY JUST FORGET ABOUT IT" response.― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:19 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:19 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
i feel you, and i will cop to being a little guilty of this in this thread but still:
i feel bad for ppl showing up earlier in this thread naively 'enjoying the music' like mindless automatons. when will they learn to augment their listening by addressing the more fundamental issue that their emotional response takes place in a cultural space poisoned by ryan schreiber's ignorant hegemony. stop taking the blue pill guys― ogmor, Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:02 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark
― ogmor, Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:02 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:24 (fourteen years ago)
time sure change huh guysElectroSoul in the same vein as Jamie Liddell, Hot Chip, etc.
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:25 (fourteen years ago)
check out these guys called postal service.
― grady (grady), Thursday, March 9, 2006 1:17 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
;)
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:26 (fourteen years ago)
lol, who's gonna revive some quality d*a*e threads
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:40 (fourteen years ago)
hey buddy, fuck you
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:42 (fourteen years ago)
thats re: using my name, btw
for the record i like *r*k*
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:43 (fourteen years ago)
it was a ref to your first dn can't help it if you used your gov name for that •shrug•
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:44 (fourteen years ago)
yes, you can.
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:44 (fourteen years ago)
can i help it
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
well i'm gone
― Godspeed HOOS! Black Steendriver (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:48 (fourteen years ago)
love you for that hoos
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 04:54 (fourteen years ago)
also HOOS is a valid spellcheck item in my iPhone lol
i think deej is right about pfork fwiw
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:00 (fourteen years ago)
agreed
― Godspeed HOOS! Black Steendriver (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:00 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i also don't understand why frank ocean is being lumped together w/ the weekend either -- nothing he's doing on his mixtape is very novel from an indie vs mainstream standpoint -- i mean shit jim jones rapped over mgmt two years ago, it's no biggie
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:01 (fourteen years ago)
I think ya'll care too much about p4k
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:09 (fourteen years ago)
that doesn't make the point wrong tho
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:10 (fourteen years ago)
its a p obvious point
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:11 (fourteen years ago)
2 classic internet argument tactics in 2 posts
― bnw, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 05:12 (fourteen years ago)
yeah this is true - i kind of feel that we spent the past, like, decade arguing against this though - this is why i joined ilx in the first place! and the argument was won, basically - that's why people say "rockism zzz" cuz the subject's old hat now. AND YET AND YET
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 07:23 (fourteen years ago)
I found this record pretty much unlistenable. Out of p4krnb I can just about enjoy How To Dress Well but otherwise I have a real aversion.
On the other hand the good thing about things like this blowing up in the ****osphere is that peeps like Lex say 'why aren't you listening to this' and then you find better stuff or revisit stuff like Trey with a more open mindset. Finding it really weird how hostile a lot of people irl are to rnb type stuff when they're otherwise openminded.
― Feelin' Like A Ghost / No Swayze (Craigo Boingo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 07:44 (fourteen years ago)
if it was an album of female empowerment anthems it would be getting hype from the 5 people who posted in the electrik red thread, j shep, and NO ONE ELSE
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 07:57 (fourteen years ago)
i mean apart from the means of promotion this is the other reason shit like this gets privileged by critics - this morose masculinity is fucking catnip for them - how often do artists who explicitly sing from a female perspective and to a largely female audience get this sort of shine? unless they actually become megastars?
if electrik red were boys they'd have been drooled over as much as odd future
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:00 (fourteen years ago)
also, some lols: http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4281263
At the risk of sounding racist
thank fucking god for this record! I hope it inspires other (black) r&b artists to start making great, creative music. Because Jennifer Hudson and Rihanna ain't cuttin' the mustard. Word.
I hope this record inspires a tidal wave of alt/indie r&b albums.
The simple fact is that most R’n’B leaves me cold. I find it lyrically and sonically dull and formulaic. Part of the thrill of discovering an artist like The Weeknd (or How to Dress Well) is that they present elements of R’n’B in a way that I find interesting (by being “arty” and “weird”.) It’s a form of cultural appropriation I guess, but I don’t see a problem with that.
But I absolutely agree that the majority of r&b is sonically dull and formulaic. It's as if all the young r&b artists are writing music to ride in Mirah Carey's limousine. Like vapid reality show contestants. Like a CBS crime drama. Like the writer who writes to get on the NYT Bestseller list. Some might make it, but that doesn't mean the book's worth a damn.
So here's an r&b artist who wants to make "artsy" r&b...and guess what? He did. And the album is infinitely more interesting because of it.
Most r&b has a heavy emphasis on the vocal performance, the kind we see every week on American Idol. Though at least with AI it's a bit of a goof. The Weeknd shifted the emphasis to the musical palette, and good call by going chillwave, because it's a natural fit. (The Siouxsie and Beach House samples aren't really what makes this record great.)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:02 (fourteen years ago)
Jesus Fucking Christ
― Feelin' Like A Ghost / No Swayze (Craigo Boingo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:04 (fourteen years ago)
Lol he didn't even say anything racist
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:10 (fourteen years ago)
That said I do think that drowned in sound should incorporate the phrase, "At the risk of sounding racist" into its website in various fashions
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:12 (fourteen years ago)
Lex what you said about "morose masculinity" is exactly why I was trying to say about Tyler the Creator in the ofwgkta thread
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:14 (fourteen years ago)
Repost if you read the dis board comments and creyed :'(
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:16 (fourteen years ago)
dunno who this is but this tweet pretty much sums up the offended responses http://twitter.com/DocZeus/status/52767010580471808
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:52 (fourteen years ago)
I thought this thread about the weeknd was a bit pointless and annoying given the avrage music, no idea how this group have got talked about so much tbh but that DiS thread is a no go area for me and I like the place haha that thread started off as a car crash from the start.
― jimitheexploder, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 08:57 (fourteen years ago)
the funny thing is if lex didn't push back so vigorously against this album itt I probably would have listened to it once, been like "meh" and forgotten about it
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 09:04 (fourteen years ago)
what is the point of finding morons
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 09:49 (fourteen years ago)
if i abided by that i wouldn't have read any of the original weeknd pieces in the first place
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 09:53 (fourteen years ago)
Problem is, it's not just a case of shifting goal posts, it's never obvious where the posts even are.
I'm sure lots of people who like the Weeknd would attribute their enjoyment of it to some form of anti-rockism.
More generally trying to "win" an argument in music criticism/fandom in general is like trying to control the direction of the tide with your hands.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 09:59 (fourteen years ago)
yeah I'm confused as to how rockism figures into this? I understood rockism was privileging 'authenticity' via artists who played their own instruments/wrote their own music or something. in fact, lex's strict adherence to formalist values skews a lot close to the 'rockist' side of this argument than the weeknd's stans do
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:09 (fourteen years ago)
Depends on one's definition of authenticity. Drowned In Sound posters portray Weeknd as an emotionally authentic individual voice vis a vis R&B's trained form(u)lism.
In many senses (or argumentative contexts) rockism is anti-formalist in that formalism is perceived as the opposite of authenticity. It privileges busting out, breaking the rules, etc etc
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:22 (fourteen years ago)
Anyway I don't want to turn this into another referendum on the meaning of that word. My only point is that the debate is so multi-faceted and nuanced that there's no sense in expecting it ever to be over.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:23 (fourteen years ago)
sure, but privileging authenticity is in itself normative - this is the way music should be made, and that seems to me to be where lex is coming from
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:24 (fourteen years ago)
with the state of music crit atm, you'd be forgiven for thinking the debate had never fucking taken place
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:25 (fourteen years ago)
if my piece got so much attention, i would quite like to talk about the other artists i mentioned in it? the ones i actually recommended
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:26 (fourteen years ago)
one thing I find interesting about the negative responses to the weeknd is that they do acknowledge that the weeknd inhabits their own emotional space - even if it's one of drugged debauchery or w/e. so on some level, they are acknowledging that the weeknd are successful in R&B's own terms. (or at least from what I understand about the form of R&B which admittedly is not much)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:26 (fourteen years ago)
and another way in which rockism plays into lex's argument is his contention that 'real' R&B artists convey genuine, authentic emotion, as opposed to the weeknd's 'forced and contrived' songs
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:30 (fourteen years ago)
one thing I find interesting about the negative responses to the weeknd is that they do acknowledge that the weeknd inhabits their own emotional space - even if it's one of drugged debauchery or w/e. so on some level, they are acknowledging that the weeknd are successful in R&B's own terms.
A leap too far. "inhabiting one's own emotional space" is not necessary a positive if that space is perceived as uncompelling. See Drake.
yes but lex is super-rockist-about-R&B in all sorts of ways, don't count him.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:32 (fourteen years ago)
Here's an inflammatory analogy. What is more conservative:
(a) thinking that muslim headscarves are appropriate to protect women's modesty; or
(b) thinking that muslim headscares are wrong because normal people don't do that.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:38 (fourteen years ago)
My point being that only liking "authentic" R&B and only liking "transgressive" R&B can both be rockist stances even though the judgments are diametrically opposed.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:40 (fourteen years ago)
well maybe but I feel like of all the terms in music criticism, 'emotional space' is about as subjective as you can get - if you're talking about pure emotional response, everybody's going to have different preferences for what they want.
xp yeah, I can see that
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:41 (fourteen years ago)
which is why I'm not trying to enjoy this from some rockism/anti rockism standpoint - I'm trying to figure out why the weeknd works in R&B terms, or to get as near to the value set of R&B from what knowledgeable posters tell me on ILM, and AFAIK the weeknd does work for me as an 'R&B' album
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:42 (fourteen years ago)
I still think of the weeknd as dudes who have hijacked the emotional vulnerability inherent in an R&B song and used it to express their lives spent partying @ the cobrasnake's house, which I find enjoyable to listen to
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:44 (fourteen years ago)
Yeah but everyone agrees this is in R&B album I think. Not sure that's a home run in and of itself.
Pretty much every piece of music inhabits a particular emotional space that will appeal to some audience.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:45 (fourteen years ago)
yeah but R&B privileges that effect of music moreso than other genres, or so I've been led to believe
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:47 (fourteen years ago)
I will admit that uh, my previous like for R&B has been pretty 'formalist' - admiration for those big shiny sounds, song structures, hooks and melodies. I'm sorry if I can relate to despairing house parties viewed through smoke moreso than having a partner cheating on me w/ a basketball player.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:49 (fourteen years ago)
xpost - I'd disagree. What does 112's "Dance With Me" have to do with an emotional space except in the broadest sense?
Rather, R&B has embodied emotion within technique more than perhaps any other modern genre.
This of course is part of the basis of people's attacks on it. The implied distance from this process in the Weeknd is one of the things invoked in its favour.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:52 (fourteen years ago)
'embodying emotion within technique' means what, exactly? using specific sound/textures to evoke specific emotions?
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:56 (fourteen years ago)
Yes, and vocal tics, lyrical allusions, etc. Something it shares with vocal jazz, gospel, blues.
Rock does this too but much of the time likes to pretend otherwise.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:59 (fourteen years ago)
well yeah- but it seems like we're arguing two different sides of the same coin - you can't have one without the other, the listener and the musician exist in the same dynamic. and the weeknd's choices of samples, their decision to release a screwed version, does make me think they know exactly what they're doing about emotion, technique and sound.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:02 (fourteen years ago)
You keep on changing what you're talking about.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:05 (fourteen years ago)
dayo, did you get any sleep last night?
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:06 (fourteen years ago)
I mean, I went to bed and you were posting, and now I'm hope and here you are again.
*up
and I do recognize that you can admire that emotional technique as readily as any other part of the music - like I might not directly relate to the experience of being cheated on w/ a basketball player, but I can definitely admire the rage, the sense of indignation and vengeful glee that is present. I guess I'd have a different attitude towards the weeknd if the experience they're singing about as a whole was completely divorced from my own.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:07 (fourteen years ago)
lol alfred, was that an indirect jab at the quality of my posts :[
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:08 (fourteen years ago)
they know exactly what they're doing about emotion, technique and sound.
Like, sure, but what does this mean one way or another? Certainly it's possible to describe things in the abstract that typical R&B does that the Weeknd (maybe in different ways) also does.
But no-one (except maybe lex) is saying the Weeknd can't be good music. The issue in this thread is more about the different way in which it is treated critically.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:13 (fourteen years ago)
hah yeah, I'll agree - most of my posting itt has been reacting against the lex's polemic. I'm not really interested in the critical treatment of this band, or any band really, unless it helps me hear the music from a new angle.
xp to Alfred - I live in a timezone where your night happens to be my day
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:15 (fourteen years ago)
it's all good, dayo.
For the record, I'd an argument with other colleagues yesterday about this record, and was accused of "caring too much" about genre. "Genre is genre," I was told sternly. "People don't care about genre." I insisted I had no interest in genre platonism: I simply wanted critics to know what the hell they're talking about when they claim The Weeknd sounds like no contemporary R&B.
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:18 (fourteen years ago)
I'll amend my post that yeah, it's fun to me to observe the critical paths of bands that I like. but getting so involved and so personal about it seems strange to me. unless it's about something as Evil Empire-ish as MBDTF, then I feel all forces should be mobilized. getting so worked up about a blog band that'll be forgotten by May seems so quaint, in a way
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:21 (fourteen years ago)
xp really, the only thing that separates the weeknd from other contemporary R&B is, as has been pointed out many times itt, is the subject matter. I can't really think of anything else that uses this kind of vocabulary. but I'm probably just not listening to enough music.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:23 (fourteen years ago)
it's not just about going in on the weeknd, much as they deserve it, it's about bringing shine to artists who are unfairly getting overlooked. we can talk about them now!
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:24 (fourteen years ago)
hah well I have the rolling R&B thread bookmarked, and I really like the bei majeur mixtape. fwiw honey attracts flies, you're more likely to get people listening to the R&B you want promoted if you'd tone down your polemic.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 11:27 (fourteen years ago)
so your problem now is that people are criticizing something ?
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 12:33 (fourteen years ago)
"Genre is genre," I was told sternly. "People don't care about genre."
That's kind of how I feel? I mean, I don't know whether other people care or not, but I don't really relate to discussions of whether the album "works as R&B." I don't care whether it "works as R&B," I just care if it works, and tbh, I thought the album had an appealing mood/atmosphere but also felt kind of dull and hookless.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 12:38 (fourteen years ago)
(What I'm comparing this to: The-Dream, Drake, Kid Cudi. Not Alicia Keys, Corinne Bailey Rae, Usher.)
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 12:46 (fourteen years ago)
critics gonna criticize
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 13:10 (fourteen years ago)
― they reminisce over dayo (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:11 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark
^^ booming whatever they call posts on tumblr
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 13:38 (fourteen years ago)
tumbls
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 13:39 (fourteen years ago)
maybe you shouldn't have!
i just think like....what would you think about the artists you like minus the weeknd being an example of what they're not, that's what is interesting. and the less you can do that as a critic the deeper into the bubble you are, and the closer to burn out. is one thing only good because it's not another? or is it good because of what it is? what actual effect does criticism have on music?
is the best thing to say about one thing that it deserves coverage more than something else? or is it better to say why it's good and what it sounds like?
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 13:50 (fourteen years ago)
or is it better to say why it's good and what it sounds like?
this...is what i did in my piece?
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 13:56 (fourteen years ago)
the fact that i probably wouldn't have got to do it - and certainly wouldn't have had as much attention even if i had - without the peg of weeknd-hate isn't something i can do much about, sadly
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 13:57 (fourteen years ago)
i disagree though, the fact you used the peg of weekend hate devalues the music you write about.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:00 (fourteen years ago)
like why doesn't it have its own peg?
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:01 (fourteen years ago)
ask my editors!
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:05 (fourteen years ago)
the fact you used the peg of weekend hate devalues the music you write about.
huh? What about using weekend hate to inspire a review?
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:06 (fourteen years ago)
and you KNOW that had i written about it with no peg but itself, we would not be sat here talking about it, because 1% of the people here would have read it, including you!
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:06 (fourteen years ago)
I've pitched lots of review ideas based on hating a record.
and this isn't actually true
I should have said "What about using weekend love to inspire a review?"
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:08 (fourteen years ago)
yes...why is this?
doesn't this raise suspicion about the entire issue of mentioning the weeknd at all? and call into question the authenticity of any relationship between them and the artists you favour?
and it does devalue the music you write about, at least as far as a newspaper piece goes, if the only top line is a band you yourself deem utterly shit.
i accept it's one of the problems with writing about music interestingly for a paper, but you can't have it both ways. if it wasn't for the weeknd you'd have no article in the guardian about the weeknd, so you can't be too annoyed.
x-post using weeknd love to inspire a review would mean the review exists because of the band it's about...
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:11 (fourteen years ago)
basically, "this is good because it's not that" is a pretty depressing assessment of anything
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:12 (fourteen years ago)
not least when it's this=authentic that=fakery...talk about ways to turn people off...
well..no? it doesn't
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:13 (fourteen years ago)
luckily it is not the assessment i made
kinda agree w/ garda here
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:13 (fourteen years ago)
yes it does, because you simultaneously say they are nothing to do with real rnb and then write an article about real rnb which leads with the weeknd, isn't this a contradiction?
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:15 (fourteen years ago)
if not, how not?
and what do you suggest i should have done instead? write a fucking blog post?
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:17 (fourteen years ago)
i'm not criticising you for doing it, i'm just pointing out you can't really play the anti-indie critic for a job and then simultaneously distance a band from the music you yourself are connecting them with.
even if your connection is only to criticise other writers, it's still one you perpetuate and gain from as a writer.
and part of the reason things aren't written about in newspapers like the guardian is because they can't be...some music doesn't fit their format.
again...you can't really use that format and then complain about it at the same time.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:19 (fourteen years ago)
while i think there IS merit in adding a voice of dissent to a convo about an act like this while their acclaim is snowballing, in a way you're also just adding to the larger snowball of chatter about them in general. it's a double-edged sword. of snow.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:20 (fourteen years ago)
like only on a handful of occasions in my writing career have i published something that can be fairly considered an attack piece on some artist that was getting a lot of buzz at the moment (whether nationally or locally), and in i think every case a) it was commissioned by an editor and i kinda went hey why not and b) i regretted to some extent how i went about it, partly because that's such a difficult thing to do well or with grace or a purity of purpose.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:23 (fourteen years ago)
i don't think the lex was the first person to connect weeknd with r&b tbf
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:23 (fourteen years ago)
x-post nor do I tracer...but still, repeating other people's opinions you disagree with, in an internet age, seems like madness to me.
that's such a difficult thing to do well or with grace or a purity of purpose
agree 100 per cent.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:25 (fourteen years ago)
i'm just pointing out you can't really play the anti-indie critic for a job and then simultaneously distance a band from the music you yourself are connecting them with.
connection isn't an either/or game - obviously the weeknd are connected to r&b, that's kind of the point, but they're a terrible example of r&b.
defeatist! yes it can.
yes you can? happens all the time in journalism, which isn't a monolithic industry with one voice and one way of doing things but a self-regulating multiplicity of voices, plural, all of whom attack each other regularly
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:27 (fourteen years ago)
Singles Jukebox is fun to me in part because i can just listen to the one song by an act i hate, slap a 2 out of 10 on it and write a mean blurb, and it it all out of my system and move on. props to lex for hunkering down with a whole album of stuff he's vehemently not into and writing at length about it but i think i can only do that at this point if it's the only way to earn a decent-sized paycheck that otherwise wouldn't be available to me to write about something i like.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:29 (fourteen years ago)
get it all out of my system
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:30 (fourteen years ago)
yes but you're attacking people for publicising a band which you yourself give publicity to. you're attacking a newspaper for the fact that you yourself "had to" write an article which publicised a band you dislike to publicise ones you do.
that's as defeatist as anything i've said.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:31 (fourteen years ago)
Writing a string of bad reviews is dispiriting and I wouldn't recommend it, but I don't see anything wrong with sticking it to an act whose songs have always offended you; it's especially cool when you've got a large audience reading. One of the most satisfying hate pieces I ever wrote was a review of an Eagles show for my local rag about seven years ago: I just really let them have it. "If you hated them so much, why'd you accept the assignment" my editor wondered once it was published. He just couldn't wrap his head around the possibility that a critic would want to explain why one of the world's best selling bands are a lump of shit.
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:35 (fourteen years ago)
oh negative concert reviews are fun. I sometimes get really outraged online comments for those, but usually I can say in all honesty I had no idea what I would think of it before I got there. plus it's a night out and you hear the bad music once, you're not alone in a room listening to something you have over and over.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:36 (fourteen years ago)
negative everything is fun, but it's that which is better left to a messageboard or blogpost.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:39 (fourteen years ago)
That's a step too far, isn't it?
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:40 (fourteen years ago)
Nobody here ever made a claim for "negative everything."
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:40 (fourteen years ago)
i think "negative everything" describes my posting style here pretty well tbh
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:41 (fourteen years ago)
i mean any negative review...is a laugh potentially.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:45 (fourteen years ago)
time was you could write a blogpost
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:49 (fourteen years ago)
I want to be clear that I am making the following statement in the abstract; I haven't read Lex's piece yet and am making no assumptions on how he wrote it.
One thing about defining yourself as the person who writes in opposition to conventional wisdom is that, unless you're careful/judicious with your knives/praise, you could wake up one day and discover that people have anointed you the new Armond White.
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:53 (fourteen years ago)
so true
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:54 (fourteen years ago)
Isn't that what much of this thread has been about (Pitchfork indie's dominance of the critical discourse)?
yes but you're attacking people for publicising a band which you yourself give publicity to. you're attacking a newspaper for the fact that you yourself "had to" write an article which publicised a band you dislike to publicise ones you do.that's as defeatist as anything i've said.
I don't get what's defeatist about a spirited defense of R&B in the face of indie critics who would have you believe the Weeknd is the only thing interesting going on right now. I thought it was nice that lex's article took all his negative energy and turned it positive by spotlighting other, less acclaimed artists and showing that R&B is doing just fine without the Weeknd. In the end, his article was more about Kandi/ Ambrosius/ Dawn Richard, etc. than the Weeknd.
― lurking off (lou), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:58 (fourteen years ago)
the biggest problem w/ both that article and the similar way the debate has been framed itt thread is that literally the ONLY reason those particular R&B artists are set up in contrast to The Weeknd is that they also happened to release albums in feb/march
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:06 (fourteen years ago)
heh itt thread
how is it pitchfork's fault that an artist has no news peg?
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:10 (fourteen years ago)
a house act makes a good house record will never be a news peg, even if it's a better record than a danish metal band is fusing house with metal, or some stupid shit.
― LocalGarda, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:11 (fourteen years ago)
its p cool that theres this one thread for all you dudes to be wrong abt everything in, maybe you cld just retitle it & keep this shit in here
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:13 (fourteen years ago)
I think that was covered too. :) In that it's not Pitchfork's fault (and I somewhat misleadignly refered to "Pitchfork indie", not Pitchfork itself) that the wider community of critics tend to lazily adhere to whatever Pitchfork is covering (see D-40's posts upthread).
― lurking off (lou), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:14 (fourteen years ago)
(Ugh- pardon my sentence structure in that last post.)
― lurking off (lou), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:18 (fourteen years ago)
that pitchfork is even able to 'dominate' the critical discourse is a sign of how fractured discourse is today? like if your thing is dance music there are dance music communities that you can find and be a part of that operate totally independently of the p4k sphere. like I don't understand why people care so much about whether or not p4k promotes their pet genre. stop hitting yourself.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:25 (fourteen years ago)
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:13 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
The Weeknd being described as "what you need" seems like a good subject line for a thread of wrongness imo
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:27 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:25 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i dont think u get this. everyone reads that site /pays attention to it in the music world. i can confirm having recently interview a bay area gangster rap dude who surprised me by knowing exactly what pitchfork was. its part of the game now.
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:31 (fourteen years ago)
like I don't understand why people care so much about whether or not p4k promotes their pet genre.
Thing is (and pretty sure I'm just repeating what was said above), I don't think the people in this thread care about what Pitchfork covers (I don't, at least). It's more about the annoying tendency of the larger critical community to privilege "Best New Music"-type stuff over everything else.
― lurking off (lou), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:38 (fourteen years ago)
^^
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:40 (fourteen years ago)
yeah I guess I don't get why people care about what the 'larger' critical community privileges. or at least that's not what I find interesting about criticism, some cosmic tally of which pubs came out for or against some album. (except when eeeveeeerybooody comes out for something like kanye)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:44 (fourteen years ago)
it's our job, man. if you made awesome widgets (or wrote about the best widgets for widget industry publications) but all the press and attentioned seemed to get lavished more on lower selling but much hipper sprockets you'd probably bitch about it a bit on I Love Widgets.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:47 (fourteen years ago)
i would be interested to see someone actually run the numbers on the amount of press the weekend gets vs. whomever deej/al/lex wish was getting more press. i dont really have a prediction as to which way it would go but it might be nice to have some figures to talk about
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:49 (fourteen years ago)
yeah it's an interesting idea but i have no idea how you'd compile that -- metacritic seems to have a lot of arbitrary inclusion/exclusion practices, google blog search would have a terrible signal to noise ratio, etc.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:51 (fourteen years ago)
can't believe some dude loves midgets :o
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:51 (fourteen years ago)
its like... even your jokes arent funnie anymore... so saddd
everyone reads that site /pays attention to it in the music world
bro just... i mean...
i started to do this w/ chris brown but realized it was p unfair comparison but i mean... lexs beef should be w/ the outlets for mnstrm r&b not giving shine to 'kandi koated' not that fact that cosmicvibes.tumblr.com doesnt give a fucc abt 50 yr old reality tv stars
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:53 (fourteen years ago)
I can see where you're coming from some dude, makes me glad (and not to disparage your job in any way) that my relationship to music is v personal and I don't really have to invest anything of myself into it. it just annoys me when the discourse centers around "why is this band getting hyped!!" and not "what is this band doing differently, are they actually doing anything different, what about this music works/what about this music doesn't work" etc. etc.
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:55 (fourteen years ago)
there's been a good amount of "what is this band doing differently, are they actually doing anything different, what about this music works/what about this music doesn't work" itt imo
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 15:57 (fourteen years ago)
yeah, that was before the p4k bomb
― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:00 (fourteen years ago)
"bro just... i mean..."
not literally, but the impact of the site is significant in the music industry. ok call it the impact of indie culture as magnified thru the site or whatever you want but when regional rappers who are as far afield from its aesthetic as possible know that its covering whats 'cutting edge' its rep is probably pretty big, regardless if they actually read it regularly.
i mean look who gets late night national tv bookings.
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:05 (fourteen years ago)
dayo- As far as caring about the critical community goes, it's not hard to see why R&B fans might wish that a group like Electrik Red could get anything even approaching the level of attention lavished on the Weeknd, is it?
― lurking off (lou), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:05 (fourteen years ago)
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:53 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
imo it makes more sense for cultural critics to have the burden of expanding coverage than gossip blogs writing for entirely new audiences
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:07 (fourteen years ago)
lol @ u shifting goalposts from pitchfork.com to cosmicvibes.tumblr.com
well i wanted 2 mention a site that ppl i know read
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:11 (fourteen years ago)
LOL- Not quite as funny as your bizarre attempts to stifle discussion itt.
― lurking off (lou), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:15 (fourteen years ago)
if i thought lamp had a sense of humor i'd be hurt that he was unamused by my half-assed attempts at lightening the mood
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:18 (fourteen years ago)
haha i am p humourless its true
part of the problem is that despite this apparently being yr jobs u dudes dont even know where the goalposts are
cuz i mean i understand that p4k is a substantial enuff publication to move some segment of the population but my impression is they dont really ~break~ bands anymore but essentially are acting postfacto the weeknd wld be 'big' to p much the same ppl that its already big w/o them its already on all the blogs omg HOW MANY PPL WILL D/L YR FREE MIXTAPE
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:20 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i dunno about anyone else but i definitely wouldn't blame/credit Pitchfork for breaking The Weeknd or a probably the majority of new 'bnm' acts
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:24 (fourteen years ago)
part of it's that album reviews are the one thing people really pay attention to on PF and they have the (admirable imo) restraint to usually wait until release dates or take a week or so after an internet-only release to run reviews. so even if they're doing song reviews or news bulletins and the staff is on the ground floor of advance hype for a new act, full-length albums come so late in the hype cycle that by the time a Pitchfork review runs it looks like they're just putting their stamp of approval on something that already got pretty big without their help.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:28 (fourteen years ago)
but i do think draaaa...D-40 is right that when Pitchfork DOES finally put that stamp of approval on something, that's one of the big things that does lead to tour bookings, mainstream media coverage, critics that weren't up on the advance hype being ready to vote for it at Pazz & Jop time, etc.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:30 (fourteen years ago)
tom
― adult music person (Jordan), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:33 (fourteen years ago)
otm
sure, & i acknowledged their ability to move certain segments of the audience (although i still think this is overstated but w/e)
my problems is a) daaaavid eddings is way overstating their influence (hard to judge) b) misunderstanding 'how ppl interact with music' (easier to show) c) conflating a bunch of market & technological based changes in ~the industry~ w/ some kind of aesthetical/critcal stance
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:41 (fourteen years ago)
daaaavid eddings
Okay I LOLed.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:42 (fourteen years ago)
Google News hits over the last month:
Trey Songz: 199Marsha Ambrosius ... 107The Weeknd ... 37Timothy Bloom ... 19K. Michelle ... 4
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:43 (fourteen years ago)
okay lol
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:44 (fourteen years ago)
(I think Google News is valid why because Nate Silver uses it)
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:45 (fourteen years ago)
(Also, "Kandi" turned up too much noise.)
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:46 (fourteen years ago)
yeah, you're going to get a ton of Real Housewives nonsense with her no matter what you do
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)
were we talking about ALL press mentions or specifically reviews/music press coverage? like, Trey Songz is a celebrity, how much he pops up in newspapers 6 months after his last album is a pretty separate matter from how much music critics covered that album.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)
my problems is a) daaaavid eddings is way overstating their influence (hard to judge)
i never gave a quantifiable amount of 'influence' so im not sure what youre specifically disagreeing w/ is out of scale here.
b) misunderstanding 'how ppl interact with music' (easier to show)
where/what am i misunderstanding?
c) conflating a bunch of market & technological based changes in ~the industry~ w/ some kind of aesthetical/critcal stance
the weeknd gets a tumblr & its the technology's fault they're more celebrated than the-dream?
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:49 (fourteen years ago)
i mean yes 'everyone reads/pays attention to' is something of an exaggeration but my pt is that its got a centrality to discourse that the source or vibe dont have
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:51 (fourteen years ago)
so indie has its cake & eats it too; it can consider/reject what it wants cuz its 'just doing it for an indie audience' except that critics see this 'indie audience' as the cutting edge where all the important developments are happening so everyone pays attention, which forces artists in other genres to pay attention, etc
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:52 (fourteen years ago)
vs.
weeknd gets a tumblr & its the technology's fault they're more celebrated than the-dream?
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:53 (fourteen years ago)
i contextualized that last quote
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:55 (fourteen years ago)
I don't think The Weeknd are actually more celebrated than The-Dream right now at this point in time, or possibly than The-Dream was when his first album was released.
I mean, if you're talking critical reception The-Dream seems to have gotten similarly good scores from a variety of sources on his first album, from Rolling Stone, All Music and Entertainment Weekly to name a few, so I'm not really buying the argument that he was ignored unless you are specifically taking a Pitchfork-centric view of how people talk about music.
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:55 (fourteen years ago)
we're beyond the looking-glass here, people
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:57 (fourteen years ago)
code 10 abort
yeah all dream had to do was create charting singles. all weeknd had to do _______
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:58 (fourteen years ago)
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:57 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
u never want to get involved in anything lol
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:59 (fourteen years ago)
seems like people used to be more self-conscious about genre tokenism or marketing strategies/medium playing a large role in the perception of music. is it progress if people aren't as worried about those things and maybe people that still want to talk about those things are the old world cavemen?
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 16:59 (fourteen years ago)
lamp i think you're tying my argument too directly to pitchfork, the website rather than pitchfork as the most visible representative of an aesthetic worldview & critical approach towards music that is highly influential w/in music criticism
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:02 (fourteen years ago)
fwiw a lot of those trey songz hits are articles about lupe fiascos album
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:04 (fourteen years ago)
98 of them to be exact
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:05 (fourteen years ago)
the metaphorical pitchfork
― adult music person (Jordan), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:06 (fourteen years ago)
how many of them are all "what the hell, Lupe"
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:07 (fourteen years ago)
marsha ambrosius:
~10 reviews or similar~10 profiles or interviewsthe rest seem to be articles about her billboard debut
the weeknd (FOUR mentions in the guardian, lol):
~15 pieces of criticism/reviews (incl. lex's) ~15 links to mixtapes/video/news about release
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:10 (fourteen years ago)
contextualized that last quote
critics see this 'indie audience' as the cutting edge where all the important developments are happening so everyone pays attention
i mean i just dont see anything you say was being true & i guess its all pointless bcuz i cant really prove that sitting here in my office on my laptop but: there is no discourse. or there are a thousand different discourses & a thousand different outlets & a thousand new ways of hearing & caring abt music. & so many of them exist outside of 'indie' & 'p4kworld' & its like these all dont count bcuz its not ppl you consider your peers or smthing idk
also i mean: what even is 'indie'? i cant think of a suitably nabiscian way of putting this but: the way critics that dont seem to be particularly invested or engaged w/ that audience feel free to talk abt 'indie' signifiers & audience & aesthetic makes it feel like indie is the standard? even as they rail against it? like this uncritical acceptance of some universal indieness borders on 'whiteness isnt a culture its just life' shit & mirrors the worst kind of unthinking genre tokenism that 2001 ilm cried itself to sleep over
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:11 (fourteen years ago)
the majority of hits for trey songz are links to videos, music, and news about tours. looks like theres one piece of criticism in the seattle PI thats been republished from blogcritics.org
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:12 (fourteen years ago)
Well it's the same pattern over and over, right? Everyone decries the straightjacket put on them by their elders so they spend their time and energy ripping it apart so they can sew the components into a slightly snugger straightjacket for their kids.
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:13 (fourteen years ago)
like indie is this language you all grew up speaking so of course your fluent & we have to police all the others genres to make sure they arent picking up indie words & indie grammar & p4k is just making everyone speak indie its colonialism but this genres already have their own language p4k is just talking abt them in indie
idk im terrible at metaphors
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:14 (fourteen years ago)
idk what the hell u are even talking abt any more
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:16 (fourteen years ago)
marsha ambrosius has 2 hits in a search of nytimesthe weeknd has 0
marsha ambrosius has 2 hits (from this year; 5 overall) in a search of village voicethe weeknd also has 2 hits, one of which is a passing mention by whiney in a rock critic quiz
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:16 (fourteen years ago)
DJP your family sounds fucked up
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:16 (fourteen years ago)
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:17 (fourteen years ago)
rolling stone: 1 result for "the weeknd"; 0 for "marsha ambrosius"
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:17 (fourteen years ago)
give it a month
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:18 (fourteen years ago)
washington post: 1 profile of marsha ambrosius; 1 capsule review of the weeknd (alongside a capsule review of mindless behavior)
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:19 (fourteen years ago)
based on my not-at-all-scientific survey of google results i think the guardian is doing more to push the weeknd than pitchfork is
apropos of nothing but i cant stand saying 'ambrosius' out loud, makes me feel seasick
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:20 (fourteen years ago)
ILM: 0 threads about "I Hope She Cheats On Your With A Basketball Player", 3 threads about OJ Da Juiceman "basketball player" freestyle
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:20 (fourteen years ago)
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:11 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
the argument here isnt that worldstar's audience doesnt exist its that they have a legitimate perspective too & that recognizing that is the responsibility of a good cultural critic
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:27 (fourteen years ago)
looking forward to your 50 Tyson review dude
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:38 (fourteen years ago)
just because you kinda liked one ariel pink song doesnt mean u get an entire aesthetic this seems foundational a good cultural critic accepts their limitations
its ok to be wrong sometimes it doesnt mean u hav to think the weeknd is very good or cool
i shoulda stuck to associative youtube posting and gnomic subgabbenb quotations i shoulda been happy
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:40 (fourteen years ago)
― some dude, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:20 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark
dying
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:40 (fourteen years ago)
― some dude, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:27 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
hey did you get around to listening to this mixtape yet or
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:55 (fourteen years ago)
i know that's a song title i was just joking around
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:58 (fourteen years ago)
the question stands. just curious.
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:59 (fourteen years ago)
only listened to some individual songs on youtube, didn't compel me to want to download the entire full-length
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:00 (fourteen years ago)
cool, man.
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:11 (fourteen years ago)
― spectrum dudes (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 17:40 (33 minutes ago) Permalink
what are you even responding to any more
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:15 (fourteen years ago)
bringing up ariel pink was in defense of the accusation, which was incorrect, that im a kneejerk pfork aesthetic hater. it had nothing to do w/ me claiming that i 'got an entire aesthetic' idk what that even refers to
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:16 (fourteen years ago)
― some dude, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:38 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
ariel pink >>>
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:17 (fourteen years ago)
im confused abt this idea that somehow bcuz indie is music that evolved out of critics, that means that non-indie listeners have no use for well-written and thoughtful music criticism. if u guys know of any such venues that dont hold indie central to their aesthetic worldview and actually have a readership of some kind & pay on time, plz let me know
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:19 (fourteen years ago)
like my take is we should be cognizent of this stuff bcuz the audience might not exist because they're not being written to, no that their not being written to because that audience doesnt care about well-written critcism
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:26 (fourteen years ago)
blargh poorly written.
my take is we should be cognizant of this stuff because fans of xyz might not read music writing because they dont see people writing to them, rather than because they have no interest in well-written music crit
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:30 (fourteen years ago)
i just look at whatever numerical score pfork gave something, check to see if there's a free mp3 download, then move on to the next review.
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:55 (fourteen years ago)
i realize the 'well-written' thing sounds pompous (& prob lol considering how my last posts) but i just mean that the aim of the crit is towards, like, 'serious critical writing' -- not trying to make any value statements abt the quality of my writing -- there are prob some R&B message board posts out there w/ more insight i dont doubt
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 18:58 (fourteen years ago)
wow i tried to read this whole thing while streaming the album, i really did.
this music is v. boring, forks "baby dreams" comment otm.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:32 (fourteen years ago)
btw wicked games and gaudy side of town have a few things in common to my ears.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:33 (fourteen years ago)
at this point I have no desire to hear the entire mixtape but the two-three songs I played off of Youtube were nice, plus I am always going to be pro-sampling of bands/songs I like
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:35 (fourteen years ago)
(& prob lol considering how my last posts)
lol wtf is wrong am i stroking or something
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:46 (fourteen years ago)
what you need is the only good track
― Shin Oliva Suzuki, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:57 (fourteen years ago)
i don't know if i need it but i would like to know, what is the good track? /abbottandcostello
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:58 (fourteen years ago)
some dude if "the morning" happens to be one of the songs by The Weeknd you didn't get around to listening to on youtube, i'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:06 (fourteen years ago)
I think there have been a lot of interesting questions about taste asked in this thread that unfortunately have been steamrolled under all this 'pitchfork controls my life: yes or no?' bs.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:11 (fourteen years ago)
heh i think the cheesy guitar noodling is my fav part of this song and the "make that money rain" line makes me think of andy k comparing "knock your boots off" to bezerker xpost
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:17 (fourteen years ago)
heh i think the cheesy guitar noodling is my fav part of this song
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:19 (fourteen years ago)
― Tim F, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:11 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yah true sorry for contributing to this
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:21 (fourteen years ago)
im not rlly sure what term to use to describe this phenomenon of value systems so end up using 'pfork' or 'indie' which just confusing things further
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:22 (fourteen years ago)
the "make that money rain" line makes me think of andy k comparing "knock your boots off" to bezerker
lol fair enough
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:22 (fourteen years ago)
use the language of the oppressor: 'altbros'
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:22 (fourteen years ago)
feels like this thread has become alternating calls of "if you want good R&B you're just stubbornly looking in the wrong place despite the right places being right out in the open" and "if you want good R&B criticism you're just stubbornly looking in the wrong place despite the right places being right out in the open"
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:04 (fourteen years ago)
you are crazy
― bamcquern, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:06 (fourteen years ago)
::blows kiss::
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:07 (fourteen years ago)
why doesn't music critics ever just want to chill
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:24 (fourteen years ago)
i chill all the time bro
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:42 (fourteen years ago)
describing someone who disagrees w/ you as stressed & not chill is a timeless tactic i suppose
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:43 (fourteen years ago)
tbf you're ilx presence is decidedly unchill
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:47 (fourteen years ago)
ha was gonna say
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:47 (fourteen years ago)
your**********
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:50 (fourteen years ago)
what about his ********?
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:52 (fourteen years ago)
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:47 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
itt?
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:59 (fourteen years ago)
a little. mine too admittedly.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:02 (fourteen years ago)
I think gr8080 was using a slightly different type of "chill".
NB. it should hardly be surprising to anyone that a new album steeped in modern R&B signifiers but feted by the indie-rock crowd would incite fairly values-loaded reactions (which we've seen in both the pro and con camps) as opposed to say, yo, this Loggins & Messina album I found at the op shop.
Maybe in 20 years time when the equivalent of balearic/beardo is old and forgotten noble failure attempts at indie-R&B everyone will be able to chill more wholeheartedly.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:03 (fourteen years ago)
i'm just playin' dudes
while Lamp remains the most OTM poster itt, i've read about 95% of this thread and actually enjoyed most of your nerdy chin-stroking from the sidelines
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:05 (fourteen years ago)
oh shit did i just win the superiority contest
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:06 (fourteen years ago)
i am curious as to why ppl think this was the band that divided R&B ilxors rather than, like, destroyer or gayngs or other R&B friendly indie artists that seemed only to rile lex previously
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:06 (fourteen years ago)
http://www.theawl.com/2011/03/you-say-hipster-rb-i-say-nappy-headed-pop-either-way-its-offensive
― max, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:06 (fourteen years ago)
destroyer is R&B friendly? i had no idea
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:08 (fourteen years ago)
dirty projectors thing kinda riled people up too iirc
― some dude, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:08 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
well, goons liked it, lex hated it
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:09 (fourteen years ago)
i dont remember a debate about the dirty projjys but i thought that big song of theirs was fun enough, i guessed tho that the rest of their music was prob not in that league
that link of max's, ugh
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:10 (fourteen years ago)
lol I thought the Dirty Projectors fracas was mostly me (because I kind of ignored them when everyone cared and only weighed in when they made the 2009 top 10, also I am horribly self-involved)
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:11 (fourteen years ago)
goons like destroyer? i don't remember that either.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:11 (fourteen years ago)
how often do you conflate the two concerns tho even just itt? like i feel like part of the problem is ppl who cant divorce how the music is received by listeners w/ how its written abt by critics
w/e this thread is making me crazy you ppl will nvr learn & u just dont know how...
― Lamp, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:11 (fourteen years ago)
Here's a proposal—how about we call it "nappy-headed pop"?
Here's a proposal-DIE IN A FIRE
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:12 (fourteen years ago)
― max, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:06 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest
i'd never heard the drake interlude he mentions in that piece but omarion probably didn't do himself any favors w/ the whole gay thing by re-working "friendly skies" with drake
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:13 (fourteen years ago)
that article did remind me of the several pieces about new R&B singer Santogold that floated around early on
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:19 (fourteen years ago)
There's increasingly no great distinction though. Message boards are indicative of that. Even youtube comments. Most people are narrativising their taste in some form.
Anyway I don't know which posts of mine you're thinking of here. I'm pretty sure the only references I've made to pitchfork in this thread have been to say that this is not about pitchfork, and moreover that the kind of "biases" we're talking about here aren't unique to indie but run in all directions.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:30 (fourteen years ago)
you know the frattier version of this same phenomenon is like Mike Posner, who ALSO recorded his demo in his home (er, dorm room @ Duke). Like the real narrative of this whole thing is "ppl who are into R&B now doing the home recording stuff that indie ppl (and the critics who write about them) used to think was their sovereign territory (even though Gary Wilson exists).
― suxv (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 22:31 (fourteen years ago)
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:12 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark
ha i think you maybe posted this before finishing that article?
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:02 (fourteen years ago)
p sure djp would want the author of the article to die in a fire either way tbh
― flopson, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:08 (fourteen years ago)
very accurate call by both of you
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:08 (fourteen years ago)
really don't get the love for this guy. singing is a performance and this dude really can't sell the lines; it seems unintentionally awkward when he sings "fucking" (and if it is intentionally ironic, then fuck him). And as for the "sound," I don't quite get what's so special about it. If i wanted to hear something that registered as "atmospheric," i'd turn to lots of UK producers (deadboy, burial, etc.)
i've spent the past week or so catching up on a lot of new music--inc. the k michelle single, "'til the end of time," dawn richard--so i def sympathize w/ you, lex--it's really frustrating to see people ignoring all of this awesome R&B and then declaring The Weeknd a savior--but the combative tone is prob not the right way of handling the situation. you should prob speak to the audience instead of yelling at them, e.g. instead of saying "screw you for liking the weeknd when you should be liking k michelle," you could write a piece about why the xx's embrace of modern r&b works for you while the weeknd's doesn't?
― maybe i'm just gay (Tape Store), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:10 (fourteen years ago)
theawl writer handles the race issues so poorly that he sounds racist.
― bnw, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:13 (fourteen years ago)
totally. i mean the "Either Way, It's Offensive" at the end of a headline is almost like saying one group should be just as offended by 'hipster' as another should be 'nappy-headed.'
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:35 (fourteen years ago)
imagine if vibe never went out of business i think the weeknd would be on their next cover
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:35 (fourteen years ago)
also, i mean
I'm no hipster, but if The Weeknd and Frank Ocean are getting mad love from people who consider themselves hipsters, then I suppose hipsters can call it whatever makes them feel comfortable. But as non-hipsters like to say, let's keep it all the way real.
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:36 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:38 (fourteen years ago)
yeah the article is kinda cringeworthy in places
also both frank ocean & the weeknd are r&b -- he notes that frank samples mgmt & the eagles while ignoring the production from tricky & midi mafia as well as frank's whole background & also notes that weeknd samples beach house & siouxsie but not that they also sample aaliyah (also those samples make up like 10% of the whole album)
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:41 (fourteen years ago)
also now after reading it i don't get the whole tangent about drake & "friendly skies" -- someone mucking the original beat up a bit & then omarion singing over it doesn't exactly seem like an 'progression' imo
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:42 (fourteen years ago)
like... the part about how the new Chris Brown album isn't R&B but the new Raphael Saadiq retro rock album IS
― some dude, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 23:43 (fourteen years ago)
good discussion all around guys when I was asleep, now
dayo- As far as caring about the critical community goes, it's not hard to see why R&B fans might wish that a group like Electrik Red could get anything even approaching the level of attention lavished on the Weeknd, is it?― lurking off (lou), Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:05 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
― lurking off (lou), Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:05 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
elektrik red got an 8.2 from p4k, ok no bnm but what ya gonna do. glad to see the p4k effect really worked there. also elektrick red blow http://teslastaging.com/forums/images/smilies/Gestures/userArmsCrossed.gif and I don't know why everybody went gaga over them
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:12 (fourteen years ago)
::faints::
― some dude, Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:13 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:16 (fourteen years ago)
q: do you really think the people in david eddings' world of bay area gangster rap dudes really read the reviews, or do they just look at the scores
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:17 (fourteen years ago)
I'm not actually serious about that q btw, just wanted to use the phrase 'david eddings' world of bay area gangster rap dudes'
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:19 (fourteen years ago)
i've gotten great feedback from artists and fans when writing about underground/regional rap but then i generally don't write anywhere that has number ratings so maybe if there was a score that would be all that mattered
― some dude, Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:19 (fourteen years ago)
tbh the score on a PF review says about as much to me as whether the review has top billing on the front page or is the 3rd or 4th review down or whatever. it's as much about the implied editorial priority it's getting as whether it's actually good or what the reviewer thinks.
― some dude, Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:21 (fourteen years ago)
elektrik red got an 8.2 from p4k, ok no bnm but what ya gonna do. glad to see the p4k effect really worked there.
But this is the precise point: it's not about the score that something gets on p4k, it's about the language and the arguments coralled in support of the music in question, and that's something not determined by p4k, but by an entire community and discourse within which p4k is only an influential contributor.
If I'd wanted electrik red to get the kind of audience reaction that weeknd have gotten I would have written a very different review, one which tried to set up electrik red as somehow being quite different to "run-of-the-mill" R&B, perhaps more comparable Santogold or M.I.A.
Instead my review talked about how Electrik Red exemplified what was great about R&B as a genre, and hey presto the review got absolutely no traction. I would guess that even if the review had been BNM'd it would have been greeted with a lot of headscratching.
By writing about ER in the way that I did I was effectively dooming my review to having zero effect on the group's standing among a crossover indie audience. That audience is not going to change its entire approach to R&B just because of a p4k review. Far too much credit is being given to p4k by both sides of this argument.
― Tim F, Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:40 (fourteen years ago)
Instead my review talked about how Electrik Red exemplified what was great about R&B as a genre, and hey presto the review got absolutely no traction
yeah exactly - i really wish people would stop telling me/us to stop hating on the weeknd and just write about what we love maaaan. uhhh this is what i do like 90% of the time? you can't make a career out of just slagging shit off. but you really need to on occasion - the fact that apparently no one has actually read the thousands of words i've already written this year in praise of the music i love PROVES MY POINT
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:53 (fourteen years ago)
this is the sound of the world's tiniest violin playing
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:55 (fourteen years ago)
you can't make a career out of just slagging shit off
holla
― suxv (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:56 (fourteen years ago)
Enter the nu-Millennial Chuck Eddy
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 31 March 2011 00:59 (fourteen years ago)
oh yeah there was a "...much as i'd like to" i should have added
it really seems like people get totally offended by the IDEA of vitriol sometimes - i am not a fucking hippie ffs
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:03 (fourteen years ago)
anyway
LOL U GUYS READ PITCHFORK― H3LP, Monday, March 28, 2011 11:23 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark
― H3LP, Monday, March 28, 2011 11:23 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:04 (fourteen years ago)
I wasn't zinging everyone else when I said scott seward was my favorite kind of music critic last week, I honestly like his genuine enthusiasm for things he likes and his tendency to find the silver lining in things he doesn't like
― gr8080, Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:06 (fourteen years ago)
but i love a good whiney takedown too
― gr8080, Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:07 (fourteen years ago)
i don't read pitchfork apart from tom ewing's column
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:07 (fourteen years ago)
skot's tone is so real
― flopson, Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:08 (fourteen years ago)
and whenever tim or deej pimp a link to one of their reviews
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:08 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:55 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i know ur just um zinging for fun but just in case this is also some kind of argument, telling people u disagree with that their position is complaining while implying that your complaining about their position isnt seems sorta hmmmmmmm
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:45 (fourteen years ago)
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:19 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
hope not cuz as i mentioned 'pitchfork' just stands for something, its not about what it actually *is* (& tim said as much better)
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:46 (fourteen years ago)
although im sure dude would read a review of his own album yeesh
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:47 (fourteen years ago)
*scribbles furiously in his arguments of david eddings notebook*
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 01:49 (fourteen years ago)
that village voice piece j0rdan posted linked to something i wrote and actually uses my real full name in the fucking article. if anyone is curious about THE_REAL_SURFBOARD_DUDES
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Thursday, 31 March 2011 02:29 (fourteen years ago)
not gona even skim this thread though
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Thursday, 31 March 2011 02:30 (fourteen years ago)
thanks for stopping by, surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally
― gr8080, Thursday, 31 March 2011 02:31 (fourteen years ago)
surfboard dudes get writed up, totally
― who is john nult? (dayo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 02:34 (fourteen years ago)
but you made this choice for a reason presumably, Tim?
the only point this proves is that it's incredibly difficult to write positively about music and make people listen. not least when you're a particularly specialist fan of a genre.
i have no sympathy for you though i'm afraid. yes people pay less attention to positivity, the lanugage is weaker and it's incredibly hard to provoke a reaction when you say something is really good. it challenges the writer about ten times more to write about why something is great. but THAT is the entire challenge of music writing.
and as for "making a career", well again not a lot of sympathy. if your argument boils down to "i have to make connections between indie flavours of the month and music i like so i can write paid articles" then that's pretty grim. what a way to live, no wonder you're so annoyed. it's the most unnatural way to listen to music i can think of.
but the fact underlying all of this is that you're not actually going to change people's minds as a critic, nobody is. amazingly other people besides ourselves aren't so dumb that they read pitchfork like the bible and instantly like whatever's there, and just the same, they won't read anyone else's writing and be swayed very much by it.
you're right, far less people have read your positive stuff this year and probably will. because you write about music that is less popular. credit yourself for taking the time to do that and don't expect the vast majority of people to care. enjoy it when other fans do.
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Thursday, 31 March 2011 08:10 (fourteen years ago)
it's worth nothing that surfboards dude totally's blog post is the most interesting thing that i've read about the weeknd
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 March 2011 08:11 (fourteen years ago)
and sorry one other point, using things you think are shit to say why thing x is great is the LAZIEST critical tool I can think of...
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Thursday, 31 March 2011 08:11 (fourteen years ago)
ronan, music criticism isn't just about assessing music in a vacuum, it's about engaging w/music crits elsewhere, music you don't necessarily like, connecting the dots and stuff. i mean your "why write negative music crit" line is completely baffling to me
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 08:20 (fourteen years ago)
and you keep reducing what i write - both generally and in that article - to the most simplistic argument! i'm not sure you've read any of it tbh!
it would have been dishonest w/r/t my experience of the album to do otherwise.
― Tim F, Thursday, 31 March 2011 09:32 (fourteen years ago)
Not saying people who do the "this person transcends the confines of genre" approach are being dishonest, but it wouldn't be true to how I enjoy music (and would be both cynical and hypocritical of me besides) to take that line in order to get more hits.
― Tim F, Thursday, 31 March 2011 09:38 (fourteen years ago)
― J0rdan S., Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:11 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark
otm cool blog post
― flopson, Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:13 (fourteen years ago)
i couldn't tell which one was his
― some dude, Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:14 (fourteen years ago)
initials kg iirc
― flopson, Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:33 (fourteen years ago)
local garda pretty otm i think
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:44 (fourteen years ago)
lamp- i feel like part of the problem is ppl who cant divorce how the music is received by listeners w/ how its written abt by critics
tim f - There's increasingly no great distinction though. Message boards are indicative of that. Even youtube comments. Most people are narrativising their taste in some form.
I have always been surprised by how little ppl in the real world know about or seem to reflect ideas in 'music writing' (in the broadest sense including every youtube comment, trope, zing etc.) because it made sense to me that they would have some vibrational level awareness. Likewise it seems intuitive that the discourse surrounding everything to do w/ music bleeds from the page into yr head - why wouldn't it? but really music writing and especially "the critical discourse" is just one social field among many. Engagement w/ it isn't exactly optional but still varies massively depending on geography&demographics, & there are so many other autonomous fields based around music out there -esp surrounding live music scenes- w/ their own space and power dynamics. it's so easy to overestimate consensus as everyone has so many blind spots, & i think what tim f is saying here is only really true w/in this narrow field.
once you zoom to the level of the weeknd tho, critical reception looms much larger over the listening experience, but its not surprising that lamp whose experience of the band predates the specific critical response & is probably largely mediated by other factors, wld roll his eyes at this. & fair enough, cuz critics are on some confucius-level overstating the significance of their own class.
I'm not sure about the purported ambition of deej&some dude to broaden this field really, because I'm not sure by broadening you dilute the influence of certain power dynamics - i.e. dominance of "pitchfork the aesthetic worldview & critical approach" - or just spread it. in which case you might just get more indie rnb. you can try and subvert the beast from the inside & obviously even shit like this thread mighty effec
Also contra garda I do think music critics map out & frame issues w/ vocab &c. in public, which is subtly v influential. I say that as someone who has very consciously rethought things after reading music writing about acts I never have or will hear, but
― ogmor, Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:58 (fourteen years ago)
I have always been surprised by how little ppl in the real world know about or seem to reflect ideas in 'music writing'
i think quite the opposite! people generally want to feel like their taste is discerning & use critical language for that all the time. people use critics' language without even thinking about it.
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:01 (fourteen years ago)
xpost Apologies for a weird cut off sentence! I'll try and end it:
...you can try and subvert the beast from the inside & obviously even shit like this thread might effect the discourse w/in the Pitchfork Weltanschauung, but I'm not sure how effective the inside agents in this thread have been in pushing their stated cause.
― ogmor, Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:04 (fourteen years ago)
yeah I'm saying my experience defied my expectations here... 'critical language' is a bit more slippery because its less exclusive to 'music writing' field... depending on what language yr talking about I guess.
― ogmor, Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:07 (fourteen years ago)
if the engagement is for positive reasons or even accurate/valid then fine, but i don't think even you think there is a genuine and worthwhile connection between the weeknd and the acts you cite, there's merely a spiteful one you created yourself, and simultaneously pretend to be annoyed by, even as you perpetuate it further in the name of a newspeg!
plus in an age where there is so much opinion about music, in endless forms, to cherry pick one or two and call it "engaging w music crits" and not just endless reaction is a bit ambitious in my view.
would much rather read more criticism in a vacuum and less "the hype says this and then i responded to that and this guy said this and before you think what someone will write tomorrow here's what i've written today"
maybe that's a personal choice but i'm sure i'm not the only one...
― LocalGarda, Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:08 (fourteen years ago)
I hope I didn't come off like too much of an all-or-nothing R&B purist itt, funny thing is 2 of my favorite records of the last couple months, by White Life and Patrick Stump, are both basically white guys with rock backgrounds sort of doing their own twists on pop and R&B. Something like The Weeknd is much closer to current mainstream R&B but maybe the little differences produce kind of an uncanny valley effect, where I'm like this reminds me of The-Dream but is in no way preferable to The-Dream. Art/rock interpretations of R&B can be extremely hit and miss, but there's at least more chance of it feeling like its own distinct thing that doesn't remind me too much of something better I can turn on the radio and hear at any given minute.
― some dude, Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:14 (fourteen years ago)
yeah the most baffling assertion that has been made itt is that the weeknd is extremely distinct from current mainstream r&b
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:16 (fourteen years ago)
hey guys I'm going to quote ~at some length~ richard meltzer on robert christgau:
I now realize what he had in mind was simply topical news of the "trade," of a scene writ LARGE (but still of questionable existence) for which he relentlessly shilled, shills, will always shill (when you review everything, or pretend you do, without an external guarantor of the "fact" of such supposed mega-reality--even one as lame and noxious as the Stone--you would pretty much seem a freakin' FOOOOOOOOL, eh?). Whenever he spit the notion of journalism at me, I shot back with "Consult yourself," which he in turn pooh-poohed as "bourgeois individualism" or whatev--'twasn't "universal" enough for the bastard...fuck me.
Then as now, on the street as at motherfucking Yale, my fundamental concern was with truth, THE truth (hee haw), i.e., for starters: what you can be surest of. If we're talking records and bands and whatnot, all you c'n be anywhere NEAR sure of is the shadow of this shit in your own playpen. Which is no easy ride--mercy! To confront and interrogate your merry ass, you've gotta be objective, impersonal, you've gotta go straight at your own jugular--mix a metaphor--and take furious notes while the blood is still fresh. If the initial calculus ain't perfect, you're nowhere, and anywhere you proceed is triple nowhere.
― ogmor, Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:17 (fourteen years ago)
yah some dude otm
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:18 (fourteen years ago)
where's the surboard dudes article ?
― sisilafami, Thursday, 31 March 2011 17:52 (fourteen years ago)
http://blatantineptitude.blogspot.com/2011/03/jj-abrams-ication-of-music-on-web.html
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 March 2011 17:53 (fourteen years ago)
yah, that's a good piece
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:42 (fourteen years ago)
oh yeah, that was dope, i linked to it itt after seeing it on the vv thing
― dayo technology (some dude), Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:37 (fourteen years ago)
oh yeah i already read it, real good, on point.
― sisilafami, Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:45 (fourteen years ago)
there's merely a spiteful one you created yourself, and simultaneously pretend to be annoyed by, even as you perpetuate it further in the name of a newspeg!
oh fuck you
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:06 (fourteen years ago)
"spiteful"?
"pretend" to be annoyed by?
do me a fucking favour and stop being so fucking disingenuous
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:07 (fourteen years ago)
also can whichever of you are pretending to be "concerned fans" on my tumblr quit it
as i've said: the people who've cosigned my piece versus the people who've taken offense = TOTAL VINDICATION
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:08 (fourteen years ago)
what about the ppl itt who agree w your opinions overall but find your methodology for expressing them to be counterproductive
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:09 (fourteen years ago)
i mean its like, i can disagree w/ you up to a point, but then next time it'll be an artist who i think is doing something interesting, where it's far enough from R&B that it justifies itself, and then its like, well, at least i didnt cosign earlier
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:10 (fourteen years ago)
they too will be liquidated
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:10 (fourteen years ago)
i find "delicately picking one's way towards reasonableness" a horribly inhibiting way of writing, and one that's far too easily ignored. basically people need to punched in the face (figuratively) (well also literally but sadly geography prohibits this) with #realtalk
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:14 (fourteen years ago)
i don't get "counterproductive". i could write a nice article about the kandi album that isn't negative about anyone! it would a) not get commissioned b) even if it did it would get 1/100th of the readers that this did c) would do nothing to rectify the imbalance in the critical discourse that's what's pissing us off here
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:16 (fourteen years ago)
cf my sunny sweeney feature in last week's guardian that afaik three people read
its a rhetorical style, it doesnt mean your underlying points are any different, and a smart reader should be able to figure out the diff
this is more like an a-bomb to the face, where you're not afraid of what other ideas remain standing
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:17 (fourteen years ago)
that's the POINT
look indie kids are notoriously dense. they are not going to NOTICE anything less
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:18 (fourteen years ago)
fwiw i dont actually have as much of an issue with you using weeknd for a hook into writing about other stuff, in and of itself
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:20 (fourteen years ago)
personally i find it more damning when a writer can identify things that people like about something & talk about why it appeals, THEN lead into why this is, relative to the genre as a whole, a marginal accomplishment at best. i think its a more convincing case. otherwise people just assume you have an axe to grind & dismiss you
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:24 (fourteen years ago)
but i dunno i use ilx for me kneejerk "this suxxx" type reactions so i can think things thru & be more balanced when im writing for lots of people. i mean, i have friends who like this stuff (probably), and im not about to go punch them in the face about it
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:26 (fourteen years ago)
i don't really care what my friends like, i only really get annoyed when people whose job it is to "think about music" (or who obviously spend a lot of time doing that even if it isn't their job) make such a catastrophic error of thought
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:30 (fourteen years ago)
its also like, if you get all enraged abt it in the piece imo it comes off as 'doth protest too much' -- if its not a big deal, it deserves to be eye rolled & dismissed. i dunno i mean, to be clear, i dont think my rhetoric is perfect by any means. im just thinking thru how id write a piece like this / spitballin -- but like, a superiority "this is obviously not worth our time, here's what the real heads are here for" goes better when youre main tactic is arguing that 'real' R&B fans like this vs. that.
if you were trying to convince indie fans that their approach is backwards, i dont think you can couch the argument in 'real' vs 'fake' terms, because it just reinforces the divide. if you are trying to reinforce that divide, then its prob more convincing to just be all haughtily dismissive rather than confrontational i would think
idk
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:31 (fourteen years ago)
my tone in the piece is way more haughty and condescending than frothing-at-the-mouth enraged!
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:34 (fourteen years ago)
that's why people are taking offense!
i mean like, dismissive in a way where you dont spend more than a couple sentence on it, w putdowns that dont seem a bit ott. i dunno maybe theres no diff in the end
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:36 (fourteen years ago)
i did only spend a couple of sentences on the weeknd! i mean i didn't write the headline, which everyone obviously knows. i spent like 10 times more words praising other artists
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:37 (fourteen years ago)
bottom line is: the music criticism that actually gets people excited about hearing a record usually has some kind of infectious enthusiasm or positive energy. the criticism that lifts up one record by trashing another on some "your boyfriend's an asshole, you should go out with me instead" shit tends to stir shit up but not really get people listening to music other than in a spiteful or arms-folded way. you can go that route if you want, just don't have any illusions about what's actually going to happen.
― dayo technology (some dude), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:42 (fourteen years ago)
so otm. lex i'm not trying to attack you personally, i just think the "personal music critic war" modus operandi results in no good for anyone, more back and forth, less value for all. you seem to disagree, but nobody can keep up that sort of angry war forever.
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:52 (fourteen years ago)
i find "delicately picking one's way towards reasonableness" a horribly inhibiting way of writing, and one that's far too easily ignored.
:'(
― Tim F, Friday, 1 April 2011 01:45 (fourteen years ago)
keep fighting the good fight, lexhttp://www.chasingthewind.net/Images/reagan%20soldier%20crying.jpg
― gr8080, Friday, 1 April 2011 07:23 (fourteen years ago)
― Tim F, Friday, April 1, 2011 1:45 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
ha it's ironic that you and tom and nitsuh are three of my favourite writers to read, but in all three cases i do get frustrated by the refusal to ever really bring the HATE when it comes to bad, over-hyped music
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 07:27 (fourteen years ago)
though "delicately picking my way through" is kind of what i do when it comes to records i really admire & love, like the pj harvey one
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 07:28 (fourteen years ago)
That is precisely what I value highly in Tim, Tom and Nitsuh's writing, Lex. It may sound very corny, but one shouldn't need to bring forth hate to write about good music. You seem to do it quite often, also here on ILM, hating on music. It comes across so childish and ultimately it's such a useless way of trying to explain why some music does move you, or is good. Taking a U-turn via hate to say what you love, to me is a rather weak approach, as if you are unable to say it without bringing on the hate first. That's precisely what my problem with your Guardian piece is.
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 1 April 2011 07:47 (fourteen years ago)
ignore this peasantish bleating lex
― r|t|c, Friday, 1 April 2011 08:00 (fourteen years ago)
:)
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 08:04 (fourteen years ago)
we r going too far here hating is important & fine
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 13:13 (fourteen years ago)
I don’t think I’ll be reading this whole thread. Had some people over the other night and threw The Morning on during the nightcap session. A+ shit right there
― Aerosol, Friday, 1 April 2011 13:56 (fourteen years ago)
I think most publications need a combination of "picking your way towards reasonableness" type critics and rabid attack dogs - I prefer to see debates enacted among writers within the same publication rather than with reference to a critical space that's bewilderingly large for most readers.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:25 (fourteen years ago)
I mean, there's nothing more disheartening than debates getting bogged down in "OMG blogs said this" and "OMG Pitchfork said this" as this thread illustrates perfectly well.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:28 (fourteen years ago)
music critics should have their own publication or their own message board where they can react to each other's editorials
― gr8080, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:35 (fourteen years ago)
ILM?
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 April 2011 14:36 (fourteen years ago)
you ruined the joke
― bnw, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:38 (fourteen years ago)
p4k has their own board iirc
― dayo, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:38 (fourteen years ago)
and the Stylus board is still going, believe it or not.
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 April 2011 14:41 (fourteen years ago)
I got around to listening to this last week and wanted to check out this thread to see what people thought but fuck that shit
― Aerosol, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:41 (fourteen years ago)
so Dom is still posting?
― dayo, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:45 (fourteen years ago)
wtf @ dudes complaining about music critics posting on a board full of music critics
fwiw im saying this not as a music critic: this music is not good
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 15:09 (fourteen years ago)
cool, debate closed
― dayo, Friday, 1 April 2011 15:29 (fourteen years ago)
but in all three cases i do get frustrated by the refusal to ever really bring the HATE when it comes to bad, over-hyped music
tom, nitsuh and tim's seeming inability to do this is the biggest proof of what fantastic writers all three are, who don't cheapen themselves with bitterness. positive reviews are creative, negative are destructive. i don't care if anyone disagrees because i know it's true!
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:18 (fourteen years ago)
What I like about those three writers is the wilfulness to examine their dislikes and prejudices. Out and out hate is entertaining to read but is rarely actually informative.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:19 (fourteen years ago)
i don't care if anyone disagrees because i know it's true!
someone's new display name right here
― adult music person (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:20 (fourteen years ago)
Not that Tom hasn't dished out a few memorable slaggings as well.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:20 (fourteen years ago)
yeah analytical negativity is fine, and slagging off a record on a messageboard or at the pub or whatever, go ahead. but agendae of negativity are a bad sign.
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:22 (fourteen years ago)
i'm sure there are threads in the archive where i'm like this about dance music, let me hereby say it's a fucking stupid way to be.
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:23 (fourteen years ago)
music criticism is officially about never saying anything bad about anything then
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:25 (fourteen years ago)
It must be hard for some to even listen to music when while lugging around so much baggage and shit. idk I guess that’s why I don’t read ilm much
― Aerosol, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:25 (fourteen years ago)
or music reviews
― Aerosol, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:26 (fourteen years ago)
then why are you here now?
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:27 (fourteen years ago)
Out-and-out hate is fine but you have to build a case for it as much as you would with out-and-out love for a record, I think, otherwise it's just going to be overlooked (ie like those Confused Uncle Syndrome reviews we all like to have a pop at). There's a pretty good case to be built against The Weeknd admittedly.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:28 (fourteen years ago)
you know, the more i think about it the more i feel people should embrace writers' idiosyncracies. saying that you should or shouldn't approach an article or review in a certain way is like telling an artist what paints or colours to use. whether a music writer comes off as frustrated or funny or overpassionate shouldn't matter so much as if they're doing what they set out to do. music writing should be as diverse and challenging as music itself.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:29 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, vrijdag 1 april 2011 18:25 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/music/music_139.gif
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:30 (fourteen years ago)
(That said I think the Lex is right about this really quite boring record and he's kind of being the victim of some major butthurt going down on this thread)
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:32 (fourteen years ago)
also how the hell can you define my work overall by a "negative agenda" given that i write positively about music i love at least 3/4 of the time?! but if you want pollyanna shit you can look elsewhere, b/c i do think that the music industry (by which i include the press and critical consensus) i often deeply rotten, and don't see why i shouldn't point this out
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:32 (fourteen years ago)
*is often
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:33 (fourteen years ago)
and yeah the people who've said that my piece was correct, and they're glad someone actually said it, vindicate it way more than the butthurt indie critics who could do no better than throw weak "lol british" xenophobia around on twitter
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:34 (fourteen years ago)
can handle people saying bad things about stuff, just "i hate indie" is sorta tedious after 11 years, not least when the defn of "indie" is as wild and all encompassing as the phelps family's defn of "fags"
x-post i am almost at the end of this record now for the first time, i liked the first track but yeah it gets pretty crap by the end, sounds like a boyband a little bit
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:36 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Friday, April 1, 2011 12:27 PM (6 minutes ago) because there are some good threads with compelling exchanges about music on here somewhere iirc this thread is a freaking bummer though
― Aerosol, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:37 (fourteen years ago)
― Matt DC, Friday, April 1, 2011 12:32 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
seriously, this is the dumbest place to be having the 958th discussion about lex's critical approach.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:40 (fourteen years ago)
this. it winds me up. people throw the word "indie" around and it means so little anymore. anti-rockism used to be about opening people's worldviews to more music, but more often than not I hear the argument being used in exactly the opposite way. no more so than in the weeknd debate when people are saying "it's not real r'n'b therefore it's no good". sounds like all the old rock fogies moaning about synthesisers fuckign up their steez.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:41 (fourteen years ago)
(sorry if this has already been said - i haven't been reading the whole threaD)
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:43 (fourteen years ago)
GOD HATES INDIE
― fan borksclovetofu (forksclovetofu), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:43 (fourteen years ago)
marketing labels such as 'indie' or 'alternative' were never meant to describe a music's sound or style.
― nicky lo-fi, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:44 (fourteen years ago)
^ t-shirt material
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:45 (fourteen years ago)
no one had a problem with whiney's anti-witch house crusade, iirc. is that just because the weeknd are more defensible than salem?
― adult music person (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:46 (fourteen years ago)
probably?
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)
Haha that Salem thread was also hundreds of posts of eyerolls and "god please make it stop" as well iirc.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)
this sounds a bit like george michael at the end
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:48 (fourteen years ago)
said it so many times but when i was a nipper, my metal and grunge lovin' friends used to call anyone who listened to dance or hiphop "ravers". i even got called a raver for saying i liked cypress hill. that was when we were 13-14 and young enough not to know better.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:49 (fourteen years ago)
well... yes
For one thing, The Weeknd isn't completely unforgivably inept and awful on every conceivable level
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:49 (fourteen years ago)
i once met a man on the street
― Packie Bonner (Local Garda), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:50 (fourteen years ago)
haha, local garda, i subconsciously wrote that in that style, didn't i?
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:51 (fourteen years ago)
time was, people liked things
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:53 (fourteen years ago)
I still like the three Weeknd songs I heard, but not enough to actively seek out more.
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:53 (fourteen years ago)
sure, but it seems like a lot of people arguing with lex in this thread don't even like the weeknd's actual music, and are just going on general principles of criticism & authenticity etc
― adult music person (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:54 (fourteen years ago)
the thing salem and the weeknd have in common is that they're essentially trying to fuse two or three quite disparate genres together, and purveyors/gatekeepers will often act in a very hostile way if said style or genre is diluted or compromised.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:54 (fourteen years ago)
Death to false trip-hop.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:56 (fourteen years ago)
this is an xpost and maybe the kind of thing we're all done thinking about here? sorry, please skip it if this is stupid:
- I liked that Lex's article really quickly turned around from the Weeknd and made a strong (positive) case for r&b he liked. I think it's sort of unfortunate that it required the "better than the Weeknd" peg for him to get the right space/attention to do that. And I think it's fairly sensible for a critic to use something people in a given circle are paying attention to (like the Weeknd) as a hook to try and steer them toward other things they might pay attention to. (Also on some level I admire Lex's willingness to be a little needling and bullying about the way he goes about that, something I just ... wouldn't be able to summon up, I don't think.)
- I am really NOT in favor of everyone politely liking everything, but I do find it interesting that a lot of pop politics are really based around what people feel like they should be curious and open-minded about and what they're not required to. I was going to post earlier that a lot of critics now talk about "indie" stuff exactly the way indie kids talked about pop in the 90s -- that this is the bland, predictable stuff that's somehow being spoon-fed by oversized media (top-40 radio or Pitchfork) to a sheeplike public that refuses to know better and be curious about something more interesting and vibrant. The stereotypical old-school indie kid's snottiness and dismissal and refusal to engage with what a smart person might get out of pop -- that's really hard for me to distinguish from, say, the way Lex talks about lots of indie sensibilities! It makes the claims that (a) I already understand everything I need to about this sensibility, and (b) it is patently terrible and people are being deliberately ignorant by engaging with it. (This slight reversal has occurred in critical circles despite things like pop and r&b still dominating mainstream media; it's just that there's now enough of an online/indie/crit substream to treat it like a pop hegemony or something.) Maybe I just had way too striking an experience, around age 20 or whatever, of realizing how much of the music I cordoned off as not-worth-bothering-with was actually great -- and maybe it's just that people's cordons for that seem to move according to fashions that are driven by stuff well beyond the state of the music itself -- but I personally cannot figure out how to hold them seriously anymore. But I'm glad other people do, because otherwise music and criticism and fandom wouldn't really work so well.
- I'd like to note for the record that when I first enjoyed the Weeknd I had not noticed the singer had an Ethiopian last name.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:58 (fourteen years ago)
i'm still not clear on what the weeknd is fusing together
― call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:58 (fourteen years ago)
trip-hop, post-punk, R&B and reverb
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:00 (fourteen years ago)
nahhh
― call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:01 (fourteen years ago)
wld be unfortunate if "reverb" became its own genre
It's kind of... not "dangerous", but misleading to conflate/ignore the segment of the population you're describing who don't mind if the style/genre is diluted or compromised if the end result is an enjoyable listen.
xp: it practically is; did you not ever hear that Creep record?
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:02 (fourteen years ago)
maybe I mean "echo"
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:03 (fourteen years ago)
no i don't think so?
― call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:03 (fourteen years ago)
song is the tits (and way better than The Weeknd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAoBeVV-e8c
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:05 (fourteen years ago)
love that creep single. their next one features nina sky! an r&b/indie fusion i'm down with. i am really not against the idea people fusing different styles - just against the way a certain kind of fusion is so often held up as better than a non-fusion.
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:08 (fourteen years ago)
I'm sorta looking forward to the point where a bunch of related fusions -- the million different versions of "gothy r&b" and "screwed & gothed" and "dark/atmospheric smartypants metal" and "gothy lo-fi bedroom pop" that seem to be floating around -- possibly fuse together and concentrate on one good subgenre where everyone wears robes.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:15 (fourteen years ago)
monk & bass
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:16 (fourteen years ago)
http://roadburn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Sunn-01.jpg
― call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:17 (fourteen years ago)
churchstep
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:17 (fourteen years ago)
haha YES
maybe that's what my music project should be
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:18 (fourteen years ago)
a lot of critics now talk about "indie" stuff exactly the way indie kids talked about pop in the 90s -- that this is the bland, predictable stuff that's somehow being spoon-fed by oversized media (top-40 radio or Pitchfork) to a sheeplike public that refuses to know better and be curious about something more interesting and vibrant. The stereotypical old-school indie kid's snottiness and dismissal and refusal to engage with what a smart person might get out of pop -- that's really hard for me to distinguish from, say, the way Lex talks about lots of indie sensibilities! It makes the claims that
^^^once again the smartest man in the room, kids
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:18 (fourteen years ago)
a lot of critics now talk about "indie" stuff exactly the way indie kids talked about pop in the 90s
i don't really see that this is true - indie is still the default critical centre, maybe more than ever (see pazz & jop results for the past few years, chuck's essay about indie dominance the year before last, etc)
― lex pretend, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:25 (fourteen years ago)
yeah tbf nabisco lex is still the exception to the rule & the rest of us who dont like weeknd are a lot of the ppl who didnt like similar moves from drake, an out & out pop star
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:33 (fourteen years ago)
a lot of critics now talk about "indie" stuff exactly the way indie kids talked about pop in the 90s -- that this is the bland, predictable stuff that's somehow being spoon-fed by oversized media (top-40 radio or Pitchfork) to a sheeplike public that refuses to know better and be curious about something more interesting and vibrant. The stereotypical old-school indie kid's snottiness and dismissal and refusal to engage with what a smart person might get out of pop -- that's really hard for me to distinguish from, say, the way Lex talks about lots of indie sensibilities!
I think it's actually quite difficult to engage with something you feel alienated by especially if you feel it's an all-pervasive cultural force that *gets in the way* of things. It's a similar attitude I see in people who hate football/soccer and find its culture difficult to avoid in things they like doing (in this analogy substitute "going to pubs" for "writing about music").
Like, when there's this perceived mandatory cultural centrepoint that people look at you as a weirdo for feeling left out by (pop music, indie bands, team sports) it's not surprising that people kick out against it, especially when it appears elsewhere. In the UK at least, lot of indie kid dislike for pop music was a political dislike as much as an aesthetic one, and maybe those concerns fade over time.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 17:45 (fourteen years ago)
The stereotypical old-school indie kid's snottiness and dismissal and refusal to engage with what a smart person might get out of pop -- that's really hard for me to distinguish from, say, the way Lex talks about lots of indie sensibilities! It makes the claims that (a) I already understand everything I need to about this sensibility, and (b) it is patently terrible and people are being deliberately ignorant by engaging with it.
i was trying to say something like this upthread & i think the fundamentally tedious thing is that everyone just assumes that they 'get' what the weeknd are trying to do w/ these 'indie signifiers' or where they come from. this has been annoying me for a long time on ilx as some dude points out i was complaining abt it on the eoy threads a few months ago too this weird equivocation of like the national style a/v club indie & ppl trading lmtd run el tule noise pop cassettes. as if these two audiences are essentially the same - aesthetically/cultural/socioeconomically - & so its 'ok' or even 'useful' to talk abt 'indie signifiers' in a way that ignores everything abt the ppl actually consuming/creating 'indie'
ugh this thread is sorta the abyss to me & its gazing back w/ the subhuman glint of a british music critic but i think one of the (potentially) interesting things to talk abt is that the weeknd arent indie kids reaching out to 'indie' theyre r&b kids reaching out to 'chillwave' & its like... what do they think these sounds/textures/images are capable of conveying that mnstrm r&b isnt? but most of the critcism either wants 2 focus on why 'indie' audiences/critics like them & is that bad & blah blah blah
i mean i like dawn richards & kandi & ryan leslie a lot more than i like house of balloons & i think its a p big mistake to think that (as originally conceived) most wknd audience wouldnt already be listening to them... but unless you want 2 take the cynical tack of thinking they only do it 4 'buzz' consider what weeknd is saying abt themselves/ppl like themselves w/ these 'indie signifiers' abt how the conceive of their audience/how ppl actually live
― lol ok (Lamp), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:46 (fourteen years ago)
when there's this perceived mandatory cultural centrepoint that people look at you as a weirdo for feeling left out by (pop music, indie bands, team sports) it's not surprising that people kick out against it,
OTM, this is mostly how I react to Top 40 and pro sports, I can't help it.
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:47 (fourteen years ago)
then again I don't even hear any "indie signifiers" in the Weeknd so I don't even understand what the big deal is. it just sounds like modern r&b to me.
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:48 (fourteen years ago)
theyre r&b kids reaching out to 'chillwave'
this seems a little closer to the truth, but R&B's pillaged from microtrends like that for ages, this is nothing new or reprehensible or whatever
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:49 (fourteen years ago)
Oh sorry, Lex, I'm definitely not saying that's a majority opinion or anything! Yes, indie is still definitely a center.* I'm just saying it's interesting that there's a largely enough indie-centered critical culture that it can have a good number of discontents (I just said "a lot"), who talk about what Pitchfork allegedly spoon-feeds the world the same way 80s/90s punks talked about top-40 radio. I'm not even saying that's entirely incorrect: The success of online indie press actually does make it so indie-rock albums are one of the easiest things to know about, whereas keeping up with, say, rap mixtapes or metal or small-scale r&b on YouTube videos actually involves the kind of geeky digging and sorting underground-rock dudes would have been doing two decades ago.
* I always thought -- and I assume this is non-controversial? -- that it's been ever-more-central in the US this decade PARTLY because it colonized written criticism back when that was the only available way to talk about indie stuff ... so when internet music-talk blew up, indie types already had a culture/scheme/language of small-scale written press. In ways pop/r&b didn't, because pop always had TV and radio. (Hip-hop had the same kind of by-necessity text-criticism thing for a long time! Except that it was ambitious and successful about crossing over into mass media, right in time for mass media to start falling apart.)
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:50 (fourteen years ago)
Matt, I definitely know what you mean about a mandatory/alienating center point -- though I have to note that this center point really, really varies depending on where you stand. Much as it's grown, there's still no real history of any indie "center" in the US. Hell, being alienated by mandatory centers is precisely why I grew up disliking hard rock and turned against hip-hop in my teens. The jangly British guitar bands I liked instead were a mandatory/alienating center for Lex. So if we all wind up discussing stuff in the same place, it becomes really hard for me, at least, to fix what the oppressive "center" is. I guess we locate what's oppressive around here, but I'm not sure how much that answers the question...
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2011 18:00 (fourteen years ago)
lamp & im not trying to troll or be difficult here but in that case isnt your argument just 'you guys dont 'get' it' & how is that any more legit than us saying, we get it but its beside the pt? i dunno for me the 'problem' i have w this basically crystalizd around what tim id'd as this feeling, rather than an interesting/novel take on R&B to be an obvious, gauche one
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 18:13 (fourteen years ago)
― lol ok (Lamp), Friday, April 1, 2011 5:46 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark
fwiw im open to this idea as a thing -- we love R&B & want a tumblr version that will have an easier time getting booked at pfork, but 1) thats obv acknowledging that the reason teedra moses wont get booked at pfork fest and weeknd could is bcuz in between those 'already R&B fans' like sean f & indie fans who wont give weeknd the time of day are ppl who only give weeknd the time of day
2) the problem most ppl in this thread have isnt with an 'indie version' its an indie version that we think isnt v good -- like, why not make something that succeeds on both indie & R&B terms -- to me this stuff has zero chance of broaching a broad R&B audience -- its funny nabisco was talking about the exclusionariness of odd future on his tumblr the other day cuz while thats explicitly exclusive theres an exclusivity & differentiating going on when someone like the weeknd comes out & imo rejects the tenets of what makes R&B what it is but embraces the tenets of indie. im not sure i buy that thats this irreverent rule-breaking bcuz it seems so indie-friendly relative to R&B-friendly
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 18:18 (fourteen years ago)
lamp & im not trying to troll or be difficult here but in that case isnt your argument just 'you guys dont 'get' it' & how is that any more legit than us saying, we get it but its beside the pt?
we can only hear music on our terms, really, & in forming your own value judgement it is beside the point. i mean i get that you dont think the weeknd is very good, this is a legit reaction, i dont really care abt it. but if youre trying to make some claim as a 'cultural critic' & examine the way taste is shaped/expressed than you shld probably be capable of accurately 'seeing' the 'forces on the ground' rather than just sorta blindly waving your hands at yr own prejudice
for example: youre claiming that to me this stuff has zero chance of broaching a broad R&B audience but assume (a) this is a bad thing and (b) not really examing why or what motivation the dudes behind the weeknd have for 'challenging' or 'rejecting' msntrm r&b audiences/tenets, considering they wld probably see themselves as part of that audience. i mean you still think the point is 'getting booked at p4k' ffs
also: ppl who only give weeknd the time of day is again the wrong audience to focus on & sorta narcissistic i guess, & your 'indie tenets' feels specious becuase what tenets what 'indie' what cultural space
― lol ok (Lamp), Friday, 1 April 2011 18:43 (fourteen years ago)
also: ppl who only give weeknd the time of day is again the wrong audience to focus on & sorta narcissistic i guess
youve got this exactly backwards. who do u think is listening to this group
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:02 (fourteen years ago)
I'm guessing at least some of them are ppl who follow Drake
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:04 (fourteen years ago)
i want to dig into the rest of what youve posted but im at work & it will take some time -- hopefully ill get to it this evening but im not sure we're arguing what each other thinks were arguing
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:05 (fourteen years ago)
hahaha I just started reading Lex's piece and had no idea he quoted me re: Kandi
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:07 (fourteen years ago)
Having now read Lex's piece the only thing I take issue with is the "Only a fool..." line, mostly because it's unnecessarily alienating to the people the piece is allegedly pitched towards; people who've read the hype about The Weeknd. Nothing else in the piece is particularly objectionable.
― whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:11 (fourteen years ago)
ok a quick response to lamp, if i get what you're saying u are concerned w/ the 'indie'-centricity of what im saying -- i think tim addressed this but fwiw these values of 'worthiness' are really not limited to indie as a form & are something i argue w/ say hip hop heads or R&B heads about all the time -- that the priveleging of certain aesthetic maneauvers is a cross-genre phenomenon & has a lot of complicated ins & outs that are complicated by both racial & class lines. a lot of my tendencies in taste operate along the lines that 'dumb' music or simple non-'weird' music tends to be misunderstood by many of my well-educated peers (& this crosses racial/ethnic lines, although is complicated by them)
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Friday, April 1, 2011 12:32 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
lex you have to understand that a lot of the characterizations of you on this thread are based less on that one article or your freelancing output and more on your 5-6(?) years on ILM promoting the most persistently singleminded and exclusionary musical worldview of probably any poster besides Geir. obviously you're comfortable with your posting style and opinions and are prepared to tirelessly defend them for another x years, but please don't act shocked and disappointed when people see you the way you've conditioned them to see you over thousands and thousands of posts.
― dayo technology (some dude), Friday, 1 April 2011 19:26 (fourteen years ago)
L O L
http://truantsblog.com/?p=10724
As much praise as both records received, it didn’t take too long before R&B skeptics and bitter souls started to tore these records apart for not living up to their definition of the genre. Both mixtapes have a darker layer to them than most contemporary R&B and what have you songs.
The youngins surely have a long way to go until delivering record like 12 Dreams but then again, singers like R.Kelly are at least thirty years of practice, ten lawsuits and millions of dollars ahead of them.
Frank Ocean kills it on aforementioned “Novocane” and “American Wedding”, and even samples MGMT’s “Electric Feel” (all tracks are produced by himself)
― sisilafami, Friday, 1 April 2011 21:00 (fourteen years ago)
record like 12 pumps
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 21:05 (fourteen years ago)
As much praise as both records received, it didn’t take too long before R&B skeptics and bitter souls started to tore these records apart for not living up to their definition of the genre.
stack the deck much
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 21:06 (fourteen years ago)
Real quick: One of the reasons I wrote a column about this was seeing a few people (mostly on Twitter, not here) asking stuff like "why would anyone listen to Weeknd when it just sounds like bad INSERT R&B ARTIST," and in those few cases I think there is something they're not getting; they're hearing the group spend maybe half of its energy living up to a standard of "good r&b" and consider the other half boring/wasted/terrible, instead of noticing that the other half is doing specific stuff that's good and valuable to ... someone else. Which is totally fine: They don't have to absorb or relate to that sensibility if they don't feel like it! The things I'm really interested in are (a) denying that it's there (hence my broken-record "there are sonic reasons this appeals to X audience"), and (b) the fact that, right now, it feels very supportable and legitimate to take a stance where you're like "I don't need to understand anything about that boring stupid oppressive sensibility," in a way that would have been harder to pull off at various points in the past. (Which is why I brought up 80s/90s punk dudes, who could successfully and compellingly strike "I don't need to understand that boring stupid oppressive sensibility" poses about the pop charts.)
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2011 21:50 (fourteen years ago)
I'm still annoyed at the spelling of their group name.
Fuck 'em.
― LE GANG DES BMX!! (King Boy Pato), Friday, 1 April 2011 22:57 (fourteen years ago)
I think the above is right nabisco, but the question remains, "what is this music actually doing that is different?" (and i'm not saying that expecting the answer to be "nothing") - because a lot of the responses to the album I read praise aspects of the music that actually do seem like fairly regular qualities of R&B. I can understand why a person might like the Weeknd and dislike Trey Songz/Jeremih/etc but the difference between them (at least at the more atmospheric end of the latter group) is more subtle than it's mostly being presented. And when lots of people are saying they get an emotional resonance from the Weeknd that they don't or can't get from regular R&B, it's difficult not to conclude that a good deal of that is due to how those people perceive R&B, how they perceive whatever category they place the Weeknd in, why it is that they respond to the cues they do respond to.
I'm a broken record too at this point but my basic point is that this either/or approach of "either this music is entirely a bourdieu phenomenon or there's something in the music that is real and resonates with its particular audience" constructs a false dichotomy where the sounds we respond to have nothing to do with the social structures of taste in our head and vice versa, whereas in truth each creates and reinforces the other.
― Tim F, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:09 (fourteen years ago)
Re hating: I don't object to hate in music crit, I'm just no good at it myself, or haven't been inclined to express it for a long time. I tend to think the capacity to froth and rage as a critic is the flipside of being so absolutely committed to a particular idea of music that you'd defend that idea even if meant all other ideas died. Zeal, basically.
I just don't feel that passionately committed to any one idea of music such that I could write like that. The closest thing would be the way in which sometimes I feel like my ideas on 2-step and funky are like a representative of all my other ideas about anything (musically obv) - and surprise surprise that is where I'm most polemical (probably to lex's chagrin if anything).
Reasonableness in music criticism is less about reasonableness per se, I think, and more about that sense of "well, I hold all of these contradictory ideas about music in my head, sometimes I feel like jaxon and sometimes I feel like lex and sometimes I feel like deej and sometimes I feel like etc.etc." and trying to understand how all of these modes of listening are negotiated. So, while I'm not particularly motivated to listen to the Weeknd more than I already have, it still interests me to think about the issue of how they (and their audience) negotiate these conflicting modes of listening as well.
― Tim F, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:19 (fourteen years ago)
tim, what you're missing is there are people, like myself, who actually like both the weeknd and regular r&b.
― jaxon, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:30 (fourteen years ago)
ha i dont think hes talking about u tho, and you havent really said much beyond expressing your interest in what you think it does well, (i guess ambiance?) I mean, Rev likes it too iirc.
And my initial responses were in reaction to yours, just explaining where i thought it fell short compared to lots of stuff we agree on. But there's really not much else to say after we've presented our preferences -- the problems only come in when ppl start explaining their attraction to it in ways that strike me as lacking the listening experience you have or that seem to shortchange a lot of what other R&B does
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 23:36 (fourteen years ago)
tbf rev is the founder of a thread called itt: kinda out there, maybe kinda experimental, maybe kinda pretentious modern r&b -- in a way The Weeknd is just the latest in a long line of acts that strikes a chord w/ R&B fans who like hearing a something a little off-center from the genre's norms. and that's totally OK imo, most of the things being discussed in this thread are pretty specific to The Weeknd's music and/or press coverage that isn't true of most of the acts talked about in rev's thread.
― dayo technology (some dude), Friday, 1 April 2011 23:41 (fourteen years ago)
ya, i started this thread lo-fi or outsider soul & funk and a ton of other experimental r'n'b threads. this one wasn't anything diff i guess. i know people have said this album is hookless, but most of my favorite albums *seemed* hookless at first. they take a while to sink in. i can def hum along to almost all the songs on this. i really like his melodies. i like the atmosphere. i like his voice. i could give a shit about the beachhouse samples because i still haven't heard beach house. i dig the happy house sample. that one def made me smile a ton when i first heard it. i dunno. like i said in the other thread, i've listened to nothign but r'n'b for 2 weeks straight and i def have a greater appreciation for what's out there right now (didnt' shy away from that stuff because it was r'n'b, just don't listen to modern music all that much), but it doesn't lessen what i feel for this record. different strokes. nbd
― jaxon, Saturday, 2 April 2011 00:02 (fourteen years ago)
some ideas i have:
- the weeknd are essentially (or mb formally) r&b- they are using the dissonance created by introducing aesthetic tropes from 'indie' or 'chillwave' to both comment on r&b & create a specific emotional range or atmosphere - this is not unique or really weird- this does not mean that there are no other ways of using the genre to occupy the same emotional range - nor does it devalue other artists working w/in the genre- the emotional qualities that 'chillwave' has, the aesthetic shorthand its developed, is a p natural one to pick up on- if one of your primary goals is to portray a kind of hollowness or spiritual poverty or ennui undergirding your own life, it can be useful to use an 'outside' aesthetic language to make that point - some audiences will only respond to the aesthetic language theyre familiar w/ - this isnt really a 'bad' thing - none of this means u have to like the weeknd or think they are successful or w/e
― RANDY BEAMAN ANAGRAM (Lamp), Saturday, 2 April 2011 00:05 (fourteen years ago)
I don't dislike the weeknd actually jaxon! And what seems typical of a large portion of an audience is never true of an entire audience. But nor have I simply imagined the preponderance of responses I described upthread.
It does seem a lamentable quality of ilm discussions that people find intolerable references to experiences of music that don't match their own.
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 00:28 (fourteen years ago)
2) the problem most ppl in this thread have isnt with an 'indie version' its an indie version that we think isnt v good -- like, why not make something that succeeds on both indie & R&B terms
hey deej, serious post this time, from what I read of your stuff on this thread, you've mostly just given these sort of personal pref value judgments - but you haven't really explained (maybe you have?) what exactly about the weeknd doesn't do it for you. afaict you just think they sound 'generic' but what does that mean? I think I'd better be able to understand your position if it was a little bit more staked out.
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 00:37 (fourteen years ago)
Umm that creep video upthread, despite being amazing to look at, sounded exactly like Salem removing the weeknd. Still enjoyed it though.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 00:51 (fourteen years ago)
Remixing, not removing. Stupid phone
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 00:54 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Saturday, April 2, 2011 12:37 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★(starting w/ last para)★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★
not to be a dick but i think ive explained why this stuff doesnt work for me thru-out this thread
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:00 (fourteen years ago)
ok afaict you don't like it because it sounds generic and not "v novel and interesting"
what does that mean?
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:04 (fourteen years ago)
ok genuine lol
― RANDY BEAMAN ANAGRAM (Lamp), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:05 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Saturday, April 2, 2011 1:04 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
... are you reading what i linked? i said a lot moer than that...?
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:07 (fourteen years ago)
jesus the posts he just linked to have like 400 words of pretty descriptive feedback about the actual sound of the songs, you really gonna keep pulling teeth (xpost)
― kl0pson (some dude), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:07 (fourteen years ago)
lesson here is if you like The Weeknd all you gotta say is ~~~i just dig the vibe why overthink it~~~ but if you don't the burden of proof is on you to write a fucken novella about why
― kl0pson (some dude), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:09 (fourteen years ago)
lol I've put myself out there and written stuff about what I like about this and why I think it works - I just think I'd like a firmer outlaying of deej's stance other than "there are these sounds effects" + "I don't like those sound effects"
like one reason you give for not liking it is that "it's a slow jam + vocals are filtered" but it's not apparent to me what inherent contradictions that has? and terms like "generic" and "anonymous" are pretty loaded in their own right and embody a lot of listener bias in them, that's why I'm "pulling teeth" since it seems deej is so invested in this argument
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:13 (fourteen years ago)
also, I'll cop to not reading the last paragraph of the last post you linked to, which does contain some concrete reaction, tnx
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:14 (fourteen years ago)
BTW thought the Lamp summary of positions above was pretty good. Separate question is whether this stuff is "worth thinking about" or not. I know it can be somewhat tiresome to feel like you're constantly looking over your shoulder to explain and justify your taste when all you want to do is be part of the just chill bro brigade. Whereas I have OCD w/r/t these issues whether I love the music or dislike it or am indifferent (nb. Gayngs was top 20 of 2010 for me, much to lex's disgust).
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:14 (fourteen years ago)
― deej, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:34 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think this says a lot more than 'its a slow jam + vocals are filtered' -- it says that the effect of that is distancing me from the music, that it isnt emotionally resonant as a result, and that the only narrative i can attach to that creative decision is an imo played one of 'hypnogogic pop'.
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:16 (fourteen years ago)
and terms like "generic" and "anonymous" are pretty loaded in their own right and embody a lot of listener bias in them, that's why I'm "pulling teeth" since it seems deej is so invested in this argument
― dayo, Saturday, April 2, 2011 1:13 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
iirc in those linked posts im not leaving those terms out there alone, although in partic examples i can unpack them if you want.
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:18 (fourteen years ago)
youll have to quote specifically though because i cant remember a time where i used those w/out context or where i was summing up something that had already been explained in detail
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:19 (fourteen years ago)
that would be helpful deej - fwiw I hope you can see why the distancing of the listener from the music would be appealing to others, even if it's not appealing to you
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:19 (fourteen years ago)
like one reason you give for not liking it is that "it's a slow jam + vocals are filtered" but it's not apparent to me what inherent contradictions that has?
Slow jams are mostly about warmth, intimacy, naturalism. Arguably one of the specific tricks of the Weeknd is the inversion of the slow jam in this respect. Which basically = Drake's "Shut It Down" but self-conscious w/r/t the thematic consequences. I can see why this appeals to a chillwave mentality.
My sense is that the Weeknd are not really indulging in chillwave sonics so much as pointing out the above similarity.
Ha xpost
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:19 (fourteen years ago)
More songs to talk about: Lil B's "I"m God", Rihanna's "Russian Roulette", Rick Ross' "Aston Martin Music".
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:21 (fourteen years ago)
and thanks for linking those posts deej, I hope you can see why they're more interesting to read than stuff like
fwiw im saying this not as a music critic: this music is not good― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, April 1, 2011 11:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, April 1, 2011 11:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:23 (fourteen years ago)
i dunno when lots of people are posting many times each on a long long thread i think it's okay if not straight up inevitable that you're gonna lob some one-liners that are not very useful in and of themselves
― sarraghmaclachlan (some dude), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:25 (fourteen years ago)
the weeknd rules
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:26 (fourteen years ago)
Although I don't like Drake per se I find his vocal performance on "Aston Martin Music" much more unsettling and weirdly involving than the Weeknd's vocals, though I can't put my finger on why. At a guess, maybe it's because I get the sense Drake himself doesn't realise how odd he sounds.
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:29 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Saturday, April 2, 2011 1:23 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
fwiw this was a reaction to the feeling i was getting that the anti- side was being represented as responding purely to the hype, thus all the 'oh jeez music critics itt' etc
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:30 (fourteen years ago)
― Tim F, Saturday, April 2, 2011 1:29 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
love 'aston martin music' btw
It's like Last Train To Paris in one track.
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:32 (fourteen years ago)
ewww please don't say that
― sarraghmaclachlan (some dude), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:33 (fourteen years ago)
one of the reasons that i got really excited by the early weeknd tracks was bcuz in loft music he signs 'im living for the present & the future dont exist' & i think thats a fundamentally impt force underlying 'chillwave' but here was someone expressing this in the context & language of what sounded like a dream track
& like sure there are r&b songs that deal w/ the same basic sentiment but not w/ the same sense of displacement & unknowable loss (to me). because traditional r&b doesnt really do displacement its often so rooted/present ime. i mean part of it is hes making the subtext of ~gratitious hedonism~ text - the early morning emptiness, the disconnection & i guess this is potentially lame or gauche idk
― RANDY BEAMAN ANAGRAM (Lamp), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:34 (fourteen years ago)
anyway I'll be game and try to shift this thread back to talk about the weeknd instead of p4k and screeds and all that
wicked games the vocals are better but the song has so many unnecessary 'fuckings' its distracting & lyrically corny in parts― deej, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:34 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark
― deej, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:34 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark
lyrically corny R&B songs are par for the course, I thought? I think the cursing in this album isn't just mindlessly used - it's a signifier of this sort of wild false bravado that acts as a defense mechanism for the singer's insecurities, i.e. "the higher that I climb, the harder I'mma drop, these pussy-ass n*ggas hold on to their credit..."
i guess to me it just seems too close to actual R&B, not weird enough, to seem partic. novel. Burial im not a huge fan of but it at least has a beat style that exists outside of current R&B, this just sounds like an anonymous slow jam to me but w/ a plainer vocal performance― D-40, Monday, March 21, 2011 10:38 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark
― D-40, Monday, March 21, 2011 10:38 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark
I don't know if the music is trying to be out-and-out weird - as some dude pointed out early, there is an uncanny valley effect going on where it's just close enough to actual r&b to put you into that emotional mode of receiving/listening, but the actual emotional message is pretty different. also this uses the term 'actual R&B' which as has been pointed out itt has all sorts of problems w/r/t questions of authenticity & assumptions.
what matters imo is songwriting & this project has its moments --'the morning' is p great -- but some big misses too. that 'rock the boat' sampling one is generic as hell & the vocal effect is distancing. & the lyrics in the 2nd one, where he keeps saying 'motherfucker,' are really off putting & gimmicky. im kind of w/ lex here in that if you like this stuff, you should love the album tracks ("unfortunate" etc) on the last trey songz― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:27 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark
― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:27 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark
you'll be forgiven if 'pretty big misses' is not exactly enlightening. here you use 'generic as hell' but I don't know what you mean by that.
i listened to the entire thing on my way home & i think 'the morning' is the only song that really works well, because it actually bothers to have a worthwhile hook. they have some creative & interesting ideas to explore throughout -- i like the vocal sample, and later on the guitar-driven rhythm on 'the party & the afterparty.' for example. but yeah, for the most part the lyrics are stilted & awkward, the 'novel textures' arent nearly as novel as they think they are, the songwriting lacks hooks. this stuff imo doesnt function the way its intended most of the time.― D-40, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:35 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark
― D-40, Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:35 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark
okay so here you think that the weeknd should have hooks - I disagree, I think there are hooks, but maybe the kind that take a couple of listens to get. what do you mean "function the way its intended to most of the time"? what do you think the music aims at doing?
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:36 (fourteen years ago)
also this uses the term 'actual R&B' which as has been pointed out itt has all sorts of problems w/r/t questions of authenticity & assumptions.
dayo not only is this pointless point-scoring, it's wrong. "Actual R&B" and "Real R&B" are not the same concepts. All deej meant was that the music didn't sound so unlike R&B the genre to automatically be considered something difference.
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:45 (fourteen years ago)
okay, I'll grant that - still, that's as much of a reaction against the characterization of the music by critics than it is about the music itself
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:48 (fourteen years ago)
Deej's point in that statement was that the sonic and aesthetic choices that the Weeknd makes might seem more interesting if they were more divorced from typical R&B. In the absence of that, it's hard not simply to rank the Weeknd against other vocalists, songwriters and producers in R&B and find the project middling or unremarkable as a result.
Serious non-dick question: would any huge fans of the Weeknd describe their enjoyment of the music as being on any basis other than its chillwavey vibe?
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:59 (fourteen years ago)
― call all destroyer, Friday, April 1, 2011 7:01 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdajrGhBBIA
― gr8080, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:06 (fourteen years ago)
fair enough Tim - I do think this music is rewarding in and of itself and that even when compared with others in the same vibe (that trey songz song unfortunate, the jeremih album) it's not *that* much off in either direction to warrant being called 'middling' or 'unremarkable.'
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:26 (fourteen years ago)
I don't think I"ve ever consciously listened to chillwave, unless games counts? explaining my like for this as crossing the wires of R&B and chillwave appreesh might not be not OTM
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:31 (fourteen years ago)
if only we had a chillwave thread w/ an endlessly grating plaxico-penned thread title
― gr8080, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:35 (fourteen years ago)
oh wait
i know everybody else has already forgotten abt it but can we have one chillwave thread that isnt entirely ¡LOLwave! or w/e
― gr8080, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:36 (fourteen years ago)
― dayo, Friday, April 1, 2011 10:26 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
how is not being that different or too far in one direction mutually exclusive with being described as middling?
― sarraghmaclachlan (some dude), Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:36 (fourteen years ago)
well it seems that 'middling' was used in the sense that 'actual R&B' has been held up itt as being successful at what the weeknd fails at - I just want to suggest that the weeknd is a lateral move, and not really deserving of all the blowhard rhetoric itt (which I can't even tell if it's being aimed at critics or the weeknd themselves anymore)
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:40 (fourteen years ago)
No that's the wrong way about. Heaps of actual R&B is middling. It's in the nature of genres that this is the case. It simply wouldn't make sense to say that R&B as a genre is not middling.
I think you're erroneously assuming that Weeknd-sceptcs think all R&B is superior to the Weeknd (to be fair maybe Lex does).
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:44 (fourteen years ago)
tbf lex's guardian piece has hung heavy over this entire discussion! I would argue that the weeknd's outsider status magnifies whatever criticism is leveled at it so that a term like 'middling' does come to mean 'worse than actual R&B'
anyway, I do think that the weeknd do enough things differently from 'actual' R&B that they reserve a spot in my listening rotation, at least for now - and I was curious as to why deej thought they didn't.
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:51 (fourteen years ago)
for the record I am now listening to the trey songz anticipation tape more than the weeknd so congrats you assholes win
― gr8080, Saturday, 2 April 2011 02:59 (fourteen years ago)
― Tim F, Friday, April 1, 2011 9:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― sarraghmaclachlan (some dude), Friday, April 1, 2011 9:33 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
i mean for the love of god
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 2 April 2011 03:10 (fourteen years ago)
Haha, sorry.
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 April 2011 03:13 (fourteen years ago)
i think the use of drake in "aston martin music" is slightly novel from a structural standpoint but i still don't really get what the point of it is
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 2 April 2011 03:16 (fourteen years ago)
I only really ever 'noticed' chrisette michelle's part
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 03:17 (fourteen years ago)
well that's the chorus so yeah
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 2 April 2011 03:19 (fourteen years ago)
yeah, but drake mirrors it right? I assume that's what tim f is talking about
― dayo, Saturday, 2 April 2011 03:20 (fourteen years ago)
oh wait they're two different parts. hmm
no disrespect because even though i've played the "whats the DEAL with all these music critics" card too many times to be funny itt, ive actually enjoyed a lot of the discussion here. but for real some dude's heavy engagement with this thread day after day while shamelessly admitting he only listened to "one or two songs on youtube" of the artist in question is without a doubt the funniest thing i've read on ILX this month INCLUDING shakey mo's statement that "real life lesbians aren't ever attractive by hetero standards"
― gr8080, Saturday, 2 April 2011 05:55 (fourteen years ago)
haha obviously not. did you mean to spell "sceptcs" like that btw? i hope so.
i think this paragraph from this guardian blog gets to the heart of the matter (in the wrong way but yeah): http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/mar/30/new-band-holy-other
And make no mistake, Holy Other are engaged in a similar project to recontextualise R&B as How to Dress Well and the Weeknd (there's even a track called BoyziiMen). Now, we realise this is dipping our toes into the week's hottest water, so we'd just like to say, we loved Jam and Lewis productions for Alexander O'Neal in the 80s just as we've got all the time in the world for the latest exponents of that form of hi-tech R&B, but we can appreciate that, for some, contemporary soul, for all the studio gloss, is still too passionate, too damn soulful. We've seen one particular track (Timothy Bloom's Til The End of Time) recommended this week, but call us terminal miserablists phobic about fleshy reality, we don't want a soundtrack to adult lovemaking. That's precisely why How To, Holy Other and the Weeknd – and the Drake album, for that matter – are such a boon: it's soul deracinated, desexualised, enervated and etherealised, until there is nothing left but production and sorrow. It's unearthy/unearthly.
- damn right i'm gonna call you a terminal miserabilist phobic about fleshy reality- if you can't deal with, or actively don't want, songs about making love, YOU DO NOT GET R&B and should stop commenting on it
― lex pretend, Saturday, 2 April 2011 08:25 (fourteen years ago)
Oh please
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 08:41 (fourteen years ago)
"you're not a true punk, you don't get it. I saw you last week and you had long hair!"
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 08:43 (fourteen years ago)
it's kind of like not wanting techno records to have 7-minute instrumentals with a 4x4 beat, or a rap record to have bragging on it, or a dubstep record to have so much bass on it
― lex pretend, Saturday, 2 April 2011 08:50 (fourteen years ago)
I found the Lester / Petridis comments on the Guardian podcast a little o_O.
There seems to be a reduction of Lex's article to 'we should all listen to more stuff like R. Kelly', then a jump to the idea that songs that sound like R. Kelly are all about fucking, then another jump to the idea that songs about fucking have no emotional complexity. While i'm perfectly willing to admit that some acts (including Kelly at times) do swim in some fairly shallow waters, it seems like a crazy thing to build your conception of a genre on. Not sure what to make of the fact they have no problems with black female sexuality in records but not with black male sexuality either. The whole thing's a can of worms.
I've got no problem with people loving The Weeknd and little problem with people who don't listen to R&B praising it as something fresh and new to their ears. Praising them while writing off mainstream R&B, based on what looks like a pretty flimsy understanding of the area, irks though.
― Ha ha ha ha. Jack my swag. (ShariVari), Saturday, 2 April 2011 09:16 (fourteen years ago)
what did they say on the podcast?
― lex pretend, Saturday, 2 April 2011 09:28 (fourteen years ago)
It's worth listening to the first five minutes when they're discussing Holy Other / The Weeknd / your article. The gist is that they understand where you're coming from but that the sexual content of the stuff you're talking about and the lack of the kind of depth they see in The Weeknd turns them off. They both agree that they've got no problem with female R&B singers making explicit records but not males ones.
idk, maybe i'm reading too much into the comments or mischaracterising what they meant. It's a touchy area and it's probably best that you judge for yourself.
― Ha ha ha ha. Jack my swag. (ShariVari), Saturday, 2 April 2011 09:44 (fourteen years ago)
Do not see why this is a problem though. Isn't this how new and interesting styles are founded? By fucking with the parameters? Fusing ideas together? By adding and subtracting?
Why should we even compare things like the weeknd to og r'n'b anyway? It's like arguing the difference between David Guetta and The Field (to pick two random examples).
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 10:15 (fourteen years ago)
Don't have a horse in this particular race, but....
its the inference that whichever genre in question is lacking in some way. The analogy i might use is - I go to Hungary on holiday and while I thought the language was kind of ok, i think i could show them some better ways to speak Hungarian.
Also while interesting and great music has been made at the borders of genres and by mixing things up - in my view this is more likely to come from artists pushing out from their genre rather than magpie artists pinching from it (though of course this is subjective and there is nothing wrong with appropriating from without)
― colby, Saturday, 2 April 2011 10:23 (fourteen years ago)
inherent conservatism within any genre also (or it ceases to have meaning as a genre) - suspicion of outsiders coming to my town telling me how we could be doing things so much better, if it was so good where you were why didn't you stay there
― colby, Saturday, 2 April 2011 10:25 (fourteen years ago)
^^exactly
u gotta know the box inside out in order to think outside it, basically (this is what timbaland did so well in the 90s)
― lex pretend, Saturday, 2 April 2011 10:44 (fourteen years ago)
The giveaway word in colby's post is 'better'. Who's to say that one way of approaching music is inherently 'better' than another? I don't think even The Weeknd are claiming their brand of r'n'b-informed chillwave is better than the regular stuff. Continuing with the language analogy, you could argue that whole languages were based primarily on the clashing of two separate cultures, beginning as pidgins where neither party knew each other's language very well and communicated with hand signals and a few borrowings, progressing to Creoles and patois and then fully formed languages such as Afrikaans.All the same, it seems as though The Weeknd do know r'n'b inside out, but they also know electro and chillwave etc and have decided to follow an alternative path. Why is this so bad an wrong?I'm listening to this properly or the first time now and I absolutely don't understand the complaints people have about this. It does have hooks, it is fairly original, it doesn't really betray whatever r'n'b tropes people seem so desperate to cling to either. I just can't see why this is so unacceptable to people?
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 11:24 (fourteen years ago)
I think the argument about 'better' is that this is getting attention in certain circles, with the word 'better' kind of implied. ie - if a particular outlet doesn't talk much about a particular genre of music, then talks a lot about a record while framing it in terms of the genre they don't usually cover - then 'better' is implied no?
Tho you could frame 'better' as 'more suited to the audience being written for'
The "xyz its okay to like" is a well worn theme...is this an example of it?
― colby, Saturday, 2 April 2011 11:44 (fourteen years ago)
To add to that - I agree that the weeknd is doing nothing wrong. Like anyone else he is making what he wants to make
― colby, Saturday, 2 April 2011 11:46 (fourteen years ago)
And surely r'n'b fans should be rejoicing that the indies are deciding to cover the weeknd along with the staple animal collective and iron an wine albums. You can't call people who decide to dip their toes into r'n'b fools for investigating it via a more familiar gateway, and this is essentially a gateway album that could potentially get more people diving deeper into the genre. It seems hypocritical to say that indie kids ought to listen to r'n'b while simultaneously denying such paths.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 11:55 (fourteen years ago)
The Guardian Music Podcast thing was awful. It was just this guy saying how he was repulsed by displays of black male sexuality on record, e.g. that Ginuwine being a hunk got in the way of Timbaland's productions ("there is nothing more unattractive than adult love-making"), and much prefers the Weeknd because it drains r&b of its sexuality, and is about being sad and lonely, "like Morrisey". Sounds like he's got issues tbqh.
― PΓ☼LΞG☼ (prolego), Saturday, 2 April 2011 12:29 (fourteen years ago)
Hmmm... That's a whole new tin of tuna right there. Also realising that my last post doesn't really address the issue of crits saying the weeknd are more worthy than other r'n'b acts, which is of course very small minded.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 12:43 (fourteen years ago)
those guardian blog comments are legitimately bizarre
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 2 April 2011 12:53 (fourteen years ago)
lol "production and sorrow"
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 2 April 2011 12:54 (fourteen years ago)
^^^^ suggested new thread name
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 2 April 2011 13:09 (fourteen years ago)
but for real some dude's heavy engagement with this thread day after day while shamelessly admitting he only listened to "one or two songs on youtube" of the artist in question is without a doubt the funniest thing i've read on ILX this month INCLUDING shakey mo's statement that "real life lesbians aren't ever attractive by hetero standards"
― gr8080, Saturday, April 2, 2011 1:55 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
pretty sure lots of people on ILM post to threads about albums they've only heard one or two songs from, dude, i'm sorry that concept is so ridiculous to you but it happens
― sarraghmaclachlan (some dude), Saturday, 2 April 2011 13:26 (fourteen years ago)
theres corny as in, boy this guy gets to the point quickly, where it is a part of the persona & informs it, then there's the weeknd kind of corny, where it gives the feel of a guy trying to capture the *idea* of R&B vocalists but doesnt let those lyrics contribute towards any kind of greater persona. A comparison w/ the-dream is a good one; the-dreams lyrics can be goofy but you always get the idea that they are part of who he is on record. this guy it just feels like hes trying to abstract away & signify "R&B" but not much beyond that
the first sentence is what i'm trying to say; im arguing that if it WAS weirder, i could excuse away where it comes up short more easily. tim already explained how 'actual R&B' in this context wasnt problematic
"pretty big misses" isnt meant to be enlightening, thats just a statement saying "i dont like many of these songs." "generic as hell" means, i already explained upthread why i think this doesnt work & now i'm reducing that to 'generic' so as to save space.
saying it doesnt have hooks = the hooks it has arent every hook-y. It wouldn't need hooks if it made up for those in some other area, but a lot of my criticisms would be null if it did have some big hooks to latch onto. So I'm just covering another area here where I think it fails to live up to something that would make it engaging to me. The melodic hook in "The Morning" that runs through the song is the only one that strikes me particularly, and the singer, although I think he has a good vocal quality, doesnt do much with phrasing or melody on the record that i think is especially striking. By, "I don't think it functions the way its intended to most of the time" the short version is, a lot of this feels like an artist trying to accomplish something beyond his reach but instead of coming up with a strategy or a workaround, he just comes up short; instead of making up for his inability to do much with vocal phrasing by writing lyrics that might interest me, he writes ones that feel like cliches (albeit intentional ones), for example. It feels like the performance relies too heavily on the high-concept of 'looking at the party through smoke' w/out many of the songs' elements backing him up sufficiently.
just imo
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 18:28 (fourteen years ago)
― gr8080, Saturday, April 2, 2011 2:59 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
going to hang this post on my wall lol
― timbo slice (D-40), Saturday, 2 April 2011 19:52 (fourteen years ago)
hey, thanks for the write-up. helps me to have a better idea of where you're coming from.
― dayo, Sunday, 3 April 2011 00:58 (fourteen years ago)
i dunno anything about those podcast peeps, but i'm sure they aren't scared of marvin gaye's outright sexuality. that whole thing just sounds weird.
― jaxon, Sunday, 3 April 2011 01:28 (fourteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBSXG0MqzHg
― gr8080, Sunday, 3 April 2011 06:37 (fourteen years ago)
Was that an official vid?
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Sunday, 3 April 2011 08:23 (fourteen years ago)
no
― gr8080, Sunday, 3 April 2011 08:29 (fourteen years ago)
i think "glass table girls" is my fav song after "the morning" & no i don't care about the excessive use of "fuck"
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 3 April 2011 08:43 (fourteen years ago)
gonna pretend i never listened to that podcast for the sake of a lot of things
*readjusts overly-shaken head*
― lex pretend, Sunday, 3 April 2011 09:06 (fourteen years ago)
pulling for u lex.
― gr8080, Sunday, 3 April 2011 12:06 (fourteen years ago)
Terrible name. Kept me from listening to them but just gave them a chance and really liking this one.
― Moka, Sunday, 3 April 2011 16:28 (fourteen years ago)
u gotta know the box inside out in order to think outside it, basically (this is what timbaland did so well in the 90s)― lex pretend, Saturday, 2 April 2011 11:44 (Yesterday) Bookmark
― lex pretend, Saturday, 2 April 2011 11:44 (Yesterday) Bookmark
ooh hey guys i don't suppose anyone thinks a night slugs slapfight would top this thread off nicely...?
― r|t|c, Sunday, 3 April 2011 17:08 (fourteen years ago)
i think a dismissive rtc post early on would have kept me from feeling the need to explicate so much tbh
― timbo slice (D-40), Sunday, 3 April 2011 18:59 (fourteen years ago)
save for people not nearly going in on lamp enough i'm pretty fine w/ how ilm addressed this matter
― r|t|c, Sunday, 3 April 2011 20:06 (fourteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfifcVngzY&feature=player_embedded
― jaxon, Sunday, 3 April 2011 21:25 (fourteen years ago)
Uploaded by julianmackler on Apr 2, 2011
This amazing song needed a video.
So I made one.Category:
MusicTags:
* Music * Weeknd * Remix * MusicVideo * Short * Pool * LA * LondonHotel
― gr8080, Sunday, 3 April 2011 21:41 (fourteen years ago)
From a friend on Twitter:
This music review of The Weeknd that compared him to Frank Ocean is the #1 reason I hate R&B enthusiasts. Frank came out 4 days ago man.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 April 2011 15:33 (fourteen years ago)
everybody's looking forward to The Weeknd
― slight even by tweet standards (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 5 April 2011 16:19 (fourteen years ago)
tbh I prefer this "Weekend"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CffRfmc6sB4
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Tuesday, 5 April 2011 16:22 (fourteen years ago)
★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★Least convincing / most lol-worthy aspect of The Weeknd's quick rise to Internet fame
― Turn My Slag On (some dude), Tuesday, 5 April 2011 16:23 (fourteen years ago)
I can't wait for his related side project called Every Minte
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Tuesday, 5 April 2011 16:37 (fourteen years ago)
can i just
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0EoTHI7rM8&feature=related
― clown nabisco (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 5 April 2011 22:04 (fourteen years ago)
memo to djp: you were right, that creep song is way way better than the weeknd!
― call all destroyer, Friday, 8 April 2011 17:07 (fourteen years ago)
woot
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Friday, 8 April 2011 17:12 (fourteen years ago)
Just came around to listening to Weeknd and I'm loving everything I've heard so far. I haven't taken the time to read through this whole thread, but do they only have singles out?
― JacobSanders, Friday, 8 April 2011 18:53 (fourteen years ago)
no there is an alb
― call all destroyer, Friday, 8 April 2011 18:54 (fourteen years ago)
free album/mixtape
― Oink Administrator (gr8080), Friday, 8 April 2011 18:55 (fourteen years ago)
http://the-weeknd.com/
― Oink Administrator (gr8080), Friday, 8 April 2011 18:56 (fourteen years ago)
Just found it! House of Balloons!! Exciting
― JacobSanders, Friday, 8 April 2011 18:56 (fourteen years ago)
!
― Oink Administrator (gr8080), Friday, 8 April 2011 20:46 (fourteen years ago)
Lol I had lunch with a lawyer friend who is massively into post-dubstep et al but doesn't listen to R&B much and he was like "there's this amazing album by this group called the Weeknd have you heard?!?!?"
― Tim F, Friday, 8 April 2011 21:25 (fourteen years ago)
three non-music nerd people have asked me what i think of the weeknd this week -- each time ive been like, i thought id love it but its not really my thing, what do u think, and they say, i love it
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 8 April 2011 22:09 (fourteen years ago)
smh
The Weeknd: Music for nerd lawyers who don't like music besides dubstep
― jaxon, Friday, 8 April 2011 22:35 (fourteen years ago)
where's cutty?
I just spent the afternoon reading this thread from the start, Yikes! I feel totally disconnected from critical discourse on music. Anyway, After listening to the album a few times, I like it more and more. Also just discovered this song which I'm loving too!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJQufgqQhE
Doesn't really sound like weeknd but doesn't have use Steely Dan!
― JacobSanders, Friday, 8 April 2011 23:49 (fourteen years ago)
Clams Casino just got singed to Type. So the R&B/Hip-hop/Indie thing isn't going away anytime soon. I'd much rather hear Clams Casino get the spotlight than Weeknd the dude has beats for miles, something Weeknd lack big time... and its pure spaced out bliss. As long as Lil B stays away I see good things for Clams.
― jimitheexploder, Saturday, 9 April 2011 00:54 (fourteen years ago)
what are some clams casino songs I should be checking out, jim?
― ★ The Pistns ★ Miss You Sheed ★ (dayo), Saturday, 9 April 2011 00:56 (fourteen years ago)
the lp just got reviewed on pfork & theres a rapper named 'lil b' also
― welterweight jammin (D-40), Saturday, 9 April 2011 01:02 (fourteen years ago)
The free mixtape is pretty sweet: http://www.usershare.net/TheHipHopUpdate/8xio6fe1mhgk/CLAMS%20CASINO%20INSTRUMENTAL%20MIXTAPE.rar
Its all a nice wishy washy laid back hip-hop soundscapes. On its own its almost a trip-hop revival kind of thing but he's done beats for Lil B, Main Attrakionz, etc... Who've got mixtapes here: http://greenovamusic.bandcamp.com/ that are all solid. Lil B has a thread on ilm but isn't all that in my opinion. He's like an ameture hip-hop Flight Of The Conchords but he's not as good at rapping and doesn't get the cash they do lol. Good choice in beats though and knows a lol when it comes his way.
― jimitheexploder, Saturday, 9 April 2011 01:08 (fourteen years ago)
― Tim F, Friday, April 8, 2011 11:25 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark
http://i.imgur.com/XelHb.gif
― Oink Administrator (gr8080), Saturday, 9 April 2011 02:09 (fourteen years ago)
is that tim f's face or yours
― welterweight jammin (D-40), Saturday, 9 April 2011 09:03 (fourteen years ago)
lol at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFiiq40lL34
― jaxon, Friday, 13 May 2011 04:56 (fourteen years ago)
lol way to fuck up having a hotel suite and lots of naked models for your video
― gr8080, Friday, 13 May 2011 05:02 (fourteen years ago)
so, 1500 posts. what i miss?
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Friday, 13 May 2011 05:22 (fourteen years ago)
hahahahah. holy shit at this (official) video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO-KQ6tSzcA
― jaxon, Friday, 13 May 2011 05:38 (fourteen years ago)
some people don't like them. it's not real. it's not good. some people don't give a shit and still like it
― jaxon, Friday, 13 May 2011 05:40 (fourteen years ago)
what's going on in the odd future thread?
hahaha remember "the weeknd"
― laroo tbh (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 13 May 2011 05:43 (fourteen years ago)
some people don't like them. they have fagginess issues. it's not good. some people don't give a shit and still like it
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Friday, 13 May 2011 06:05 (fourteen years ago)
lol so hard @ right hand dude
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Friday, 13 May 2011 06:06 (fourteen years ago)
c 0.40
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Friday, 13 May 2011 06:07 (fourteen years ago)
official videos are bumming me out.
also i listened to the mixtape last weekend in my car after irl watching the end of a party through smoke/hanging out with girls on pills and was like "i kind of hate the weeknd right now"
― gr8080, Friday, 13 May 2011 07:59 (fourteen years ago)
too easy
― rock you like a HOOSicane (contenderizer), Friday, 13 May 2011 08:02 (fourteen years ago)
Were balloons at this party, gr8080?
― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Friday, 13 May 2011 12:55 (fourteen years ago)
That one girl has Mike Stanton teeth.
― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Friday, 13 May 2011 12:56 (fourteen years ago)
(Not a dis, btw.)
― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Friday, 13 May 2011 13:03 (fourteen years ago)
what's the ilm verdict on this? why are they so annoying?
― cuteforce, Friday, 13 May 2011 13:36 (fourteen years ago)
think the answers you're looking for can be found in this very thread
― lex pretend, Friday, 13 May 2011 13:48 (fourteen years ago)
drake's chorus on this is straight out of 'house of balloons' imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qLTsYr39c
― J0rdan S., Friday, 20 May 2011 02:45 (fourteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z1yM-JWjQA
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 11 June 2011 01:57 (thirteen years ago)
there's a sped up version of glass table girls on one of the magician mixtapes and it sounds pretty good
― british sb power (dayo), Saturday, 11 June 2011 02:08 (thirteen years ago)
i haven't listened to this yet, but here's some older stuff as The Noisehttp://www.weallscheme.com/2011/05/25/the-weeknd-the-noise-ep-mixtape/
― jaxon, Saturday, 11 June 2011 02:08 (thirteen years ago)
glass table girls is a phenomenal song
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 11 June 2011 02:14 (thirteen years ago)
I dunno about phenomenal, but it's the best thing on the album, plus or minus "What You Need".
― The Reverend, Saturday, 11 June 2011 02:29 (thirteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2_YyRBYZjM
― just sayin, Thursday, 16 June 2011 18:18 (thirteen years ago)
mentioned to this dude i didnt really know after football the other week that i'd been listening to the new beyonce, he goes... "oh right are you into r&b? do you know... electrik red?" i was like OMG WUT YES WHAT ELSE U DO U LIKE and he says erm just the weeknd mainly
turned out he wasnt a big r&b fan at all really and just d/led e.r cos he read about it in the guardian one time
― r|t|c, Thursday, 16 June 2011 18:34 (thirteen years ago)
one of my friends emailed me an e.r thing in the guardian, pretty sure it was by the lex
― just sayin, Thursday, 16 June 2011 18:40 (thirteen years ago)
yeah i assumed
this guy was a "yes i have always enjoyed quality pop music" sort to be exact
― r|t|c, Thursday, 16 June 2011 18:45 (thirteen years ago)
the friend who emailed the article was a pop justice reader :/
― just sayin, Thursday, 16 June 2011 18:55 (thirteen years ago)
probably the same guy
let's cut him off
― r|t|c, Thursday, 16 June 2011 18:58 (thirteen years ago)
feel a bit proud and a bit guilty
― the smoke cloud of pure hatred (lex pretend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 19:01 (thirteen years ago)
ah what are u gonna do
i agreed the weeknd were fucking brill fwiw, couldnt be bovd
― r|t|c, Thursday, 16 June 2011 19:11 (thirteen years ago)
I went back to House of Balloons recently after not listening for a while and the consternation over this guy seems sillier than ever.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:03 (thirteen years ago)
yeah its not really a big deal at all. it must have dropped on a slow music week ¯\(o_O)/¯
― gr8080, Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:24 (thirteen years ago)
It's a good album, but feels kind of minor, I guess? But the hand-wringing it inspired on multiple fronts was ridiculous. I pretty much feel like if you hate the Weeknd, you should also hate Miguel.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:41 (thirteen years ago)
Has Miguel been bigged up by Pitchfork?
― Number None, Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:42 (thirteen years ago)
Not afaict.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:44 (thirteen years ago)
But who gives a fuck what Pitchfork thinks about an r&b act?
Not me. Some people seem to though.
― Number None, Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:45 (thirteen years ago)
Miguel can actually sing tho, Weeknd dude's voice is hella obnoxious
― The Brainwasher, Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:46 (thirteen years ago)
Miguel also isn't played at bars I go to and I don't have ppl all the time telling me if I like r&b I should really check out the weeknd
also I think the songs are legit bad and stilted still. This is a room to grow group at best
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:48 (thirteen years ago)
Lol I meant "miguel" again in my rhetorical ex
He doesn't have my favorite voice in the world, but I don't have anything against it, either. Miguel is a better singer tho.
xp Afaik no one I know IRL who isn't an ILX poster has any idea who the Weeknd is in my world of the subrbs.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago)
"It's a good album, but feels kind of minor, I guess?" sums it up for me pretty perfectly
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago)
also: "in my world of bars i go to"
This really.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:51 (thirteen years ago)
in my world of software geeks and classical singers, I'm excited if someone knows who Beyonce is let alone The Weeknd
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:51 (thirteen years ago)
Could also mention miguel has hits so obv i'm not the only one who hears a diff
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:52 (thirteen years ago)
The point about my world of bars was that bars that don't normally play r&b suddenly would only play weeknd. annoying and dumb trend chasing imo
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:57 (thirteen years ago)
Well yeah, "All I Need Is You" and "Sure Thing" are better songs then anything the Weeknd is doing, but my point was that they are basically working in the same milieu, rather than any direct comparison.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:58 (thirteen years ago)
About the most obscure music I've heard in a bar in this town is Vampire Weekend. :/
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 20:59 (thirteen years ago)
in my world of whatever the fuck it is i do, i've never heard anyone even MENTION weeknd IRL except for one of my assistants and this was yesterday.
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:21 (thirteen years ago)
Did they pronounce it "weakened"
― Number None, Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:32 (thirteen years ago)
more like "weaksauce"
― The Brainwasher, Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:33 (thirteen years ago)
no, just "weekend"she was surprised drake was involved in any way.
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:34 (thirteen years ago)
Not buying the correlation between Miguel and The Weeknd. They occupy totally opposite emotional plains: Miguel's album is lovelorn and saccharine, where The Weeknd is harsh and spiteful. Two very different moods; it's very possible to feel one but not the other.
― Evan R, Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:42 (thirteen years ago)
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:44 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
1) :(
2) its not just pitchfork, i mean i get that u & forks dont have "cool" (note the scare quotes) friends but like, ok, from today's chicago reader, from its primary music critic:
"Much of the other 75 percent of my music listening has been taken up by the most fascinating R&B record since D'angelo's Voodoo. An album-length sneak preview of what pop radio will sound like in 2012."
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:36 (thirteen years ago)
like, lots & lots of people think this stuff! alt weeklys & magazine editors across the country imo
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:37 (thirteen years ago)
Yeah, I realize the discourse around it is p. obnoxious and all that, but given how misaligned it is with my experience of the record, I feel free to disregard it entirely.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:41 (thirteen years ago)
that chicago reader quote is just... baffling
― The Brainwasher, Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:42 (thirteen years ago)
worried about 2012 if kids are listening to the weeknd. something really bad must have gone down.
― bnw, Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:44 (thirteen years ago)
i kind of agree w/ that part, in the sense that R&B is totally the 2011 chillwave
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:46 (thirteen years ago)
you know, i mean, indie w/ R&B affects
it cracks me up when critics go all Harold Camping with really short term predictions about THE FUTURE OF MUSIC -- like dude we'll know if you're wrong in 7 months!
― Mr. John Scatman (some dude), Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:48 (thirteen years ago)
so they play chillwave on pop radio now? well i give up and am going to watch matlock now
― bnw, Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:50 (thirteen years ago)
ha woops yeah i was just thinking, like, what indie kids will be like in 2012 -- pop radio already kinda sounds weeknd-ish whenever drake comes on
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, 16 June 2011 23:52 (thirteen years ago)
I don't know which leap of logic on this thread I find more offensive: The insinuation that all these people who are enjoying an R&B album somehow aren't fans of true R&B, or the misperception that The Weeknd is somehow primarily a creation of indie-rock culture enjoyed only by denizens of indie-rock culture. Most of the press/buzz I've seen for these guys has come from R&B and urban bloggers, and the handful of major R&B blogs I know of hype The Weeknd weekly. "Wicked Game" even closes the latest Future of R&B comp, and it's not like those things are loaded with "indie" R&B. They're pretty damn purist in their tastes.
(I'll concede that Chicago Reader blurb is pretty horrific though.)
― Evan R, Friday, 17 June 2011 00:15 (thirteen years ago)
i dont see whats 'offensive' here. most of the h8 on this thread is coming from self-described R&B fans.
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:20 (thirteen years ago)
i mean, id be ok with minor oddball R&B record if thats all it was, like, swade or something. but instead its treated like the best record since voodoo
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:26 (thirteen years ago)
it's been a couple months, let's do this entire thread over again
― Mr. John Scatman (some dude), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:27 (thirteen years ago)
reader critics adding fuel to the fire
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:28 (thirteen years ago)
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 00:31 (thirteen years ago)
lol u were just cosigning one side of the argument!
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:32 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:26 PM Bookmark
I just don't see how this detracts from it as the minor oddball r&b record that it is.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:35 (thirteen years ago)
"the wrong people like it for the wrong reasons" = the lamest critical stance possible. if you like it, say you like it. if you hate it, that should be good enough.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:36 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 12:36 AM (1 second ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yah context has no bearing whatsoever on how ppl receive things **rolls eyes thru back of skull, dies**
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:37 (thirteen years ago)
i def prefer RTC's hypersensitivity to context to the DEEP TASTE opposite
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:38 (thirteen years ago)
i mean, fwiw, my stance is that i wouldnt be offended if a lot of people thought 'hey this is a nice minor R&B record' even though i didnt much care for it -- i might even be more open to listening to some of the tracks i was "OK" with, and checking for the dude's new stuff
but when a lot of ppl go ape over something so obviously par-at-best, it does push me away from a record
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:40 (thirteen years ago)
taking context into account is completely cool. "rmde at herbs likin lame shit" = zzzzzzzzzzz
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:41 (thirteen years ago)
but we've had this fite like a billion times before. hi deej!
rmdeiboh,d
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:42 (thirteen years ago)
it just weirds me out how the people who listen to what the media tastemakers are hyping up are the people who always say the hype doesn't matter and they're just responding honestly to the music. like that shit happens constantly.
― Mr. John Scatman (some dude), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:44 (thirteen years ago)
Eh, the context I first encountered the Weeknd in was Jaxon posting about them in the alt-r&b thread or something like that, and that's pretty much the perception I've held onto. At any rate, it's only about a 7/10 record, so I'm hardly offended if people aren't into it. I just find the hype/backlash cycle bewildering.
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:44 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, June 16, 2011 2:32 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark
no i was saying "how weird that we got worked up over an album that isnt really getting worked up over"
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 00:50 (thirteen years ago)
― Mr. John Scatman (some dude), Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:44 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
sure, but that's just the highest level of the received wisdom cycle. in this or that niche, there are heavily hyped artists & sacred cows that flirt with but never really through to mainstream acceptance. in their little niche-worlds, however, tastemakers are still leading the way and fans are claiming that hype doesn't matter, that they're just responding honestly. and in the sub-niches below those niches (local scenes, for instance), the same thing happens again.
mainstream tastemakers and camp followers aren't any more guilty of this than anyone else, they're just more visible. unless your taste is totally isolated from any critical/hype apparatus, you're almost certainly engaged with a similar dynamic, even if it's just with your friends. i just don't see anything particularly egregious about the fact that people do things collectively, as well as individually.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:52 (thirteen years ago)
"isnt really worth getting worked up over"
also what Rev is saying basically
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 00:52 (thirteen years ago)
I'm listening to the weeknd right now, nyah nyah
― british sb power (dayo), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:55 (thirteen years ago)
:O
― 51 suggest gang (The Reverend), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:56 (thirteen years ago)
fyi here's the magician mix with the sped up glass table girls (I think)
http://soundcloud.com/themagician/magic-tape-eleven
starts about 12:30, it's fun, the weeknd sound like an indie girl band
― british sb power (dayo), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:06 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 12:52 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this implies there isnt a larger structural heirarchy of power dynamics or w/e sorry been reading Foucault but it is true
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:25 (thirteen years ago)
oh jesus the last thing we need in this thread is a Foucault reference.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:26 (thirteen years ago)
well its sorta the best way of explaining how we are critiquing the critical love affair w/ a 7/10 at best R&B album
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:27 (thirteen years ago)
i mean i reject the 'youre just a part of the hype cycle!' argument mainly bcuz its not like al & i dont ever enjoy records that are hyped and dislike others. we're removing ourselves from that kind of kneejerk discourse simply by saying, well, this record is where i would draw a line (not to put words in al's mouth he can say if he disagrees)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:30 (thirteen years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/PGZQR.jpg
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 01:37 (thirteen years ago)
yeah, but disparaging a record or critic for being part of the hype cycle is hypocritical and tiresome unless you're totally outside of not only the mainstream hype cycle, but whatever hype cycles dominate in the niches you actually care about. i mean sure, everybody has to draw the line somewhere, but it's just as kneejerk to slam an album for being overhyped as it is to express interest in something other people are listening to and talking about.
if you think you're striking a blow against empire by raising your eyebrow at the weeknd record, then cool, but i'm not entirely convinced.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:39 (thirteen years ago)
thats an absurd standard. 'if you're not ending segregation, then telling a racist to stfu isnt really striking a blow against the system'
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:42 (thirteen years ago)
i'm not sure racism is really the issue here
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:42 (thirteen years ago)
yeah, but disparaging a record or critic for being part of the hype cycle is hypocritical and tiresome unless you're totally outside of not only the mainstream hype cycle, but whatever hype cycles dominate in the niches you actually care about.
it is? i disagree
the issue here is "lol deej"
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:43 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 1:42 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
... its not
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:43 (thirteen years ago)
and the analogy is more like: if you're a running-dog cheerleader for capitalist interests, you can't really begrudge other capitalists their success
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:44 (thirteen years ago)
http://nobodyputsbabyinahorner.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/11w6ck2-jpg.gif
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 01:44 (thirteen years ago)
that was an extreme example to show the fallacy in your argument
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:44 (thirteen years ago)
hey grady, if you dont care, why post?
i love everything!
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:45 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 1:44 AM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
what? that doesnt make any sense as an analogy.
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:45 (thirteen years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/jTzHG.gif
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 01:45 (thirteen years ago)
would rather have a puppy on my turntable than the weeknd amirite
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:46 (thirteen years ago)
ask not for who the thread trolls
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:46 (thirteen years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/BA2im.gif
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 01:48 (thirteen years ago)
i would go on basically forever, but i have places to be. deej wins!
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:51 (thirteen years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/Lw5cb.gif
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 01:52 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, June 17, 2011 1:44 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:55 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 1:51 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
since when do u not have the time to write 8 paragraphs
fwiw im pretty sure we were talking past each other & a couple posts would have figured out where the discrepancy was but w/e if yall want to play 'lol deej' go ahead. sorry for trying to talk about the thread topic in the thread
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:57 (thirteen years ago)
these threads are 3000x less interesting when its a bunch of bros going "yeah cool record" just imo
i'll get back to this, just gotta go do a thing
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 01:59 (thirteen years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/S2Bcn.gif
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:02 (thirteen years ago)
that gif would make anything seem fresh
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:04 (thirteen years ago)
http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/k1QQvm.gif
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:04 (thirteen years ago)
gr8080 blowing up the universe at this rate <3
― ...wow! (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:05 (thirteen years ago)
i really don't have the patience to read this whole thread, but i will say that the funny thing about the chicago reader quote is that the weeknd sounds like pop radio circa late 2010, let alone 2012
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 02:21 (thirteen years ago)
also the new weeknd track is terrible
there's a new track?
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:35 (thirteen years ago)
weird that i have this thread bookmarked and didnt know that!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2_YyRBYZjM&feature=player_embedded
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 02:36 (thirteen years ago)
i don't think anyone posted it
its wack but then i dont really know how its all that diff from the album
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:38 (thirteen years ago)
it's like "fisher price my first major lazer sample"
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 02:39 (thirteen years ago)
i was thinking he was going for a fake sade thing w/ the military snare part
its super blatant though
i think thats probably my big issue w/ the weeknd in general is that they make 'subtlety' seem really very not subtle & clumsy
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:41 (thirteen years ago)
'subtlty' is always in big block-letter quote marks
fake sade thing
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:41 (thirteen years ago)
as in, the march-snare part of 'soldier of love'
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:42 (thirteen years ago)
deej maybe kanye & the weeknd will collaborate & you can kill two unsubtle birds w/ one unsubtle stone
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 02:42 (thirteen years ago)
so obv a fake
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:42 (thirteen years ago)
i dont think u 'get' talking about music grady -- i say sit this one out & marinate on chill stuff
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:43 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:51 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark
lol cont is taking a page out of the some dude playbook
― Mr. John Scatman (some dude), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:43 (thirteen years ago)
― J0rdan S., Friday, June 17, 2011 2:42 AM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
has kanye tweeted abt the weeknd yet
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:44 (thirteen years ago)
i feel like i'm gonna be compelled to post that contenderizer post under a lot of future contenderizer posts
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 02:44 (thirteen years ago)
man listen to those drums. they almost sound like sade except..... FAKE.
― gr8080, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:45 (thirteen years ago)
― J0rdan S., Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:39 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
wow seriously otm. the whole thing is just so awkward and unmusical.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 17 June 2011 02:46 (thirteen years ago)
― gr8080, Friday, June 17, 2011 2:45 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
dude for real you dont 'get' it. 'fake' is used as a value-neutral all the time in conversations between ppl who talk about music -- it just means, 'aiming for a similar facsimile/vibe', or like, 'inspired by,' its 'fake' vs. being a 'quote' or a 'reference' or a 'sample' or any other of the hundreds of degrees of imitation
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 02:50 (thirteen years ago)
wtf that "High For This" video is awful .. Deserves much better IMO
― billstevejim, Friday, 17 June 2011 03:05 (thirteen years ago)
http://thumbnails.hulu.com/6/885/14661_512x288_manicured__-4dQs7opR0CKUHyQXdTLUw.jpg
YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT, GR8080
― Mr. John Scatman (some dude), Friday, 17 June 2011 03:08 (thirteen years ago)
is that a jay batman callback
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 03:10 (thirteen years ago)
This is misconceived I think. None of us are outside hype cycles. But some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others.
I think it's fair to be irritated by critical discourses that are based on faulty or dodgy premises, or which are based on certain (often undisclosed) privileges for particular ideas, sounds, audiences, motifs et al.
If the music itself (in its sound, its packaging etc.) did little or nothing to encourage such a hype cycle then it's unfair to then be irritated by the music in turn - i.e. it's not appropriate to hate on old reggae records merely because some critics now try to celebrate them in contrast to the incorrigible slackness of dancehall. But when the music is clearly encouraging (and is engaged with) the hype cycle it produces then it's no longer a question of distinguishing cleanly between the music and the hype.
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 04:01 (thirteen years ago)
xp Dee Robin
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:01 (thirteen years ago)
Tim F (esp about the good word given to old reggae records)
― best way to stop identity theft is bad credit (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:55 (thirteen years ago)
Tim F otm I mean
― best way to stop identity theft is bad credit (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:56 (thirteen years ago)
But some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others.
― Tim F, Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:01 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark
i don't know that some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others. i suppose some are a product of money and marketing and others build from the ground up due to fan enthusiasm and word-of-mouth, but "reasonable" isn't the word i'd choose to distinguish between the two. maybe constructed vs. organic? but the line between the two is seldom 100& clear.
i mean i get what yr saying about critical discourses that are based on faulty or undisclosed/unexamined premises & prejudices, but that's always possible, whether the hype in question is some international thing or just somebody selling out a midsize venue in their home town. and it's much easier to suggest that a hype is built on such stuff than to break down the how, why and problem aspects. anyway, i'm not sure that any hype is ever free of such issues, in one form or another. people invest in and follow artists for a host of extremely complex and personal reasons, few of which are ever clearly addressed in yr average pop review.
finally, i'm not sure what you mean about music that does or doesn't encourage hype. artists put their products out there to be heard, for the most part, unless they're weirdo recluses forced into the public eye by friends & family. even under such extreme circumstances, most art attempts to engage the curiosity of some imagined audience. honestly, i'm not sure how any of this applies to the weeknd in a way that doesn't apply equally to, say, r. kelly.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 05:10 (thirteen years ago)
and it's much easier to suggest that a hype is built on such stuff than to break down the how, why and problem aspects.
there's an implied, "...and to demonstrate that the hype accrued by supposedly more worthy albums is free of such agendas," here
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 05:12 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:45 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark
i dunno, it made sense to me.
thing is, all art competes for critical and popular attention (and, not coincidentally, the money and social prestige that go with that attention). critics participate in this competition by feeding glamor points to their pet favorites, or trying to, and by attempting to construct and share a discourse that will favor the niches, artists and values to which they've sworn allegiance. i don't personally believe that anyone has any special right to public favor, but everyone is certainly welcome to broadcast the story they want heard. which i guess means it's cool for you to foment against team indie, but it's likewise cool for me to look askance at team playing in general.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 05:25 (thirteen years ago)
wtf @ people writing/beefing about this terrible music
― censored my own brad whitford joke (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 17 June 2011 08:31 (thirteen years ago)
New industry description
― beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Friday, 17 June 2011 08:38 (thirteen years ago)
you posted here now you're part of it too xpost
― MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE!! (Local Garda), Friday, 17 June 2011 08:47 (thirteen years ago)
fucking right that's an xpost bucko
― beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Friday, 17 June 2011 08:51 (thirteen years ago)
― just sayin, Friday, 17 June 2011 08:59 (thirteen years ago)
You're talking about pedigree when you should be talking about content. My definition of reasonability here is "the message promoted by the hype isn't totally ridiculous and incorrect besides."
For an example (and deconstruction) of an unreasonable hype cycle see Maura and Tom E's recent articles on critics' attempts to turn Adele into the saviour of "real music".
Typically hype cycles become unreasonable when they become about something broader/deeper than the music at hand: artist as the saviour of X or artist is bringing X to Y or artist boldly rejects Z.
Compare/contrast with how ILM tried to hype Electrik Red - which was basically "hey this is some really awesome R&B."
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 09:21 (thirteen years ago)
Heard this in room three at Fabric in the middle of an otherwise straight rnb and rap set and it was amazing, on that big sound system, how flat it sounded in comparison to everything else around it, no body or bounce to it.
Also overentitled dudes whining on are to my mind the single worst thing about contemporary rnb so props to The Weeknd for retaining that aspect and throwing everything else out of the window.
― Matt DC, Friday, 17 June 2011 09:27 (thirteen years ago)
ypically hype cycles become unreasonable when they become about something broader/deeper than the music at hand: artist as the saviour of X or artist is bringing X to Y or artist boldly rejects Z.
― Tim F, Friday, June 17, 2011 2:21 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark
o god, hype is always about more than the music at hand. and electric red bit the dust cuz ultimately the music didn't move that many people (myself included).
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 09:34 (thirteen years ago)
see Maura and Tom E's recent articles on critics' attempts to turn Adele into the saviour of "real music".
why on earth would i want to do that? i get enough out of listening to music i actually like.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 09:36 (thirteen years ago)
yeah, it's awful when there's no smoke to obscure the party xpost
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 09:36 (thirteen years ago)
Doubt that many people heard the music in the first place.
― Matt DC, Friday, 17 June 2011 09:38 (thirteen years ago)
despite the best efforts of...
p.s. electriK
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 09:44 (thirteen years ago)
So now the purpose of hype cycles is to make up as much bullshit as possible to trick gullible listeners to pay attention?
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 10:00 (thirteen years ago)
Erm, yes?
― Matt DC, Friday, 17 June 2011 10:00 (thirteen years ago)
I mean, no one outside ILM and a couple of blogs bothered to hype Electrik Red at all from what I can see.
― Matt DC, Friday, 17 June 2011 10:02 (thirteen years ago)
...the purpose of hype cycles is to make up as much bullshit as possible to trick gullible listeners to pay attention?
for the record, i did not say this [wink emoticon that i am not actually familiar with]
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 10:06 (thirteen years ago)
Yes but you implied that the proof is in the pudding - that weeknd hype is justified if it gets attention.
And of course the reason that ER hype didn't catch on is not b/c electrik red aren't good but because the notion of "a really great R&B album" without chart success or some tenuous hype hook doesn't appeal to people who aren't otherwise pretty invested in R&B.
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 10:10 (thirteen years ago)
are you saying that electrik red didn't catch on because they hadn't caught on? i mean, i agree, but...
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 10:13 (thirteen years ago)
^ dick
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 10:14 (thirteen years ago)
I'm saying that critics, bloggers etc are more inclined to pretend that non-superstar R&B doesn't exist than they are with other genres. A lot of people I know would be into Beyonce and/or The Weeknd but wouldn't even be aware of the existence of Keyshia Cole or Teairra Marie let alone Elektrik Red.
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 10:20 (thirteen years ago)
crap. machine shut down and dumped my wisdom.
anyway, my point is that the things that = "quality" in one niche or from one POV, don't necessarily mean much from another. and the weeknd obviously connect with a significant audience, no matter how trivial they might seem to you or i (and they do). i could rage against this if i saw myself as the champion of this or that scene, but i don't, so i don't. instead, i congratulate the weeknd on their success, and hope for something similar for the artists i actually care about.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 10:30 (thirteen years ago)
^ includes at least one superfluous comma
It's not The Weeknd's "success" that irritates me though, it's bad writing. And it's more about how some critics like to set up the success (creatively) of one thing as being in contradistinction to stuff they don't really understand, and that bothers me heaps.
It happens in dance music more than in R&B. Which is one reason so many dance music listeners seek out The Weeknd - the critical tropes deployed are actually a bit closer to what i call "indie dance" than they are to indie rock per se.
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 10:42 (thirteen years ago)
i'm annoyed by bad/ignorant writing, too, but that sort of goes with any "novel" genre making its way into the mainstream. the psych noise & garage punk i normally engage with no less than the R&B & dance i'm peripherally curious abt. i guess i've learned to let it roll off my back.
can't speak to the relationship of dance listeners to pop R&B like the weekend, as i'm not really expert in either genre.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 10:48 (thirteen years ago)
"weeknd"
fuck, that's hard to type
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 10:49 (thirteen years ago)
..that sort of goes with any "novel" genre making its way into the mainstream.
shit, and that's idiotic. R&B is hardly a "novel" genre making it's way into the mainstream. i'm buying into the stupid "indie = mainstream" assumptions that frame this whole debate. rather, the weeknd are a weird/niche variation of R&GB making inroads into crit-friendly indie, itself a marginal niche. by which point the cross-pollination becomes so semiotically complex that it's impossible to say anything useful about it no matter where you're coming from.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 11:02 (thirteen years ago)
you are insane fwiw fyi
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 11:27 (thirteen years ago)
― Matt DC, Friday, June 17, 2011 9:27 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lmao'd hard
shit, and that's idiotic. R&B is hardly a "novel" genre making it's way into the mainstream. i'm buying into the stupid "indie = mainstream" assumptions that frame this whole debate.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 11:02 AM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
who is framing the debate this way?
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 11:30 (thirteen years ago)
is cont meant to be kinda like a weird misbegotten american remake of titchy, i'm tryna figure it out
― r|t|c, Friday, 17 June 2011 11:41 (thirteen years ago)
if indie doesn't in some sense = mainstream, then there's no reason to object to indie's interest in & taste for anything. it's just just another niche scene taking tips from wherever.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 17:57 (thirteen years ago)
ilx assumption typically seems to be that indie tastes and sensibilities are disproportionately represented in the critical dialogue, e.g., pitchfork, "NPR indie", indie dominance of many ostensibly generalist year-end lists, etc. lots of posters seem to see this sensibility as representative of a dumbed-down, incurious, critical mainstream. agree to an extent.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:04 (thirteen years ago)
^ and this POV seems well-represented itt
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:05 (thirteen years ago)
It's def true sometimes, but in the Weeknd's case the influence of indie tastemakers is being neurotically overstated. This stuff was spreading like crazy across the Internet and in urban blogs well before indie-leaning publications began covering it. The group was finding an R&B audience even w/o the approval of the indie set, so it's silly to treat them like they're some sort of Pitchfork creation.
― Evan R, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:20 (thirteen years ago)
Evan the problem w indie discourse isn't who is perpetuating it -- I mean ppl hating itt write for pfork, and sean f, a weeknd fan, writes for pitchfork but was music editor at vibe. This is about peoples reasons for celebrating this stuff. It should go wout saying that there are lots of r&b fans who might be very "indie friendly" when it comes to certain values. What people say about this music is what we're judging, not what mag they write for
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:43 (thirteen years ago)
Contenderizer the first sentence you wrote is wrong. So are many others, but just start there
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:44 (thirteen years ago)
yeah but that's less true of them than, say, The Clipse, who had actual radio hits and a prominent mainstream profile before being reclaimed as a token urban act for critics, and the dialogue around them is still largely shaped by those Pitchforky associations. (xpost)
― some dude, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:44 (thirteen years ago)
the world is about to feel something they never felt before
― markers, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:45 (thirteen years ago)
I can't get a handle on what cont. Is saying bcuz he makes semantic distinctions w words like "mainstream" that desperately need unpacking but that would encourage even more words
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:51 (thirteen years ago)
maybe if you were more patronizing and obnoxious it would clear things up?
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:01 (thirteen years ago)
This is about peoples reasons for celebrating this stuff.
True. And it's been a real failure of pro-Weeknd critics that they've lauded the band more for its novelty than its merits.
the dialogue around them is still largely shaped by those Pitchforky associations.
Also very true, though I do think we're overstating the importance of that dialogue, or at least overstating it as part of the band's broad allure.
I have a bunch of bro-ish friends who don't much read about music, they just sort d/l whatever mixtapes rap blogs recommend, and that's how they discovered (and fell hard for) The Weeknd. They don't know about (and certainly wouldn't care about) critical buzz or Beach House samples or whatever. They're definitely more the "Entourage" set than the Pitchfork set, which seems to be a case with a lot of Weeknd fans.
― Evan R, Friday, 17 June 2011 19:02 (thirteen years ago)
you know Drake?
― some dude, Friday, 17 June 2011 19:03 (thirteen years ago)
(i joke, but my point is everyone knows that The Weeknd has also reached that kind of audience because of who their most famous fan is)
― some dude, Friday, 17 June 2011 19:07 (thirteen years ago)
Wait forks who's being patronizing? Ppl in glass houses probably shouldn't throw stones at people actually talking about the subject at hand.
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:16 (thirteen years ago)
i like that you're okay with obnoxious.
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:17 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, June 17, 2011 3:16 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark
lol what does this even mean
― some dude, Friday, 17 June 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago)
Evan but those guys, like anyone else, want to think that theyre being discerning when they go for that stuff... The default assumption is probably similar yo the guy from the reader: this stuff is better than "typical r&b", the thinking mans slow jams, etc, wouldn't u say?
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago)
Some dude that means that I think it is hypocritical of forks to patronize me when hes not even participating in the conversation - i'm sorry he thinks i'm being obnoxious w contenderizer but i'm not sure what I said that isn't true about his posts itt
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:20 (thirteen years ago)
I don't have a vested interest here but I am pathologically compelled to point out that "obnoxious" and "true" are not concepts that are opposition to each other; for example, the statement I am making in this post is true, but it is also obnoxious of me to jump into what is look like yet another "pile onto deej for not recognizing how his online rhetoric comes across" extravaganza
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:23 (thirteen years ago)
I'm not saying it's their fault for not knowing "real r&b" our whatever silly thing, just that the critics who heavily influence this discourse at the very least should resist those kind of easy characterizations, xps to my first post
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:24 (thirteen years ago)
At djp fair enough although I think there are hella double standards when it comes to ilxors being acceptably cruel vs idk needlessly condescending or w/e u guys think i'm doing
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:27 (thirteen years ago)
Well... yes! There are!
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:28 (thirteen years ago)
ilx assumption typically seems to be indie tastes and sensibilities are disproportionately represented in the critical dialogue
this seems almost self-evidently true to me but should be y/n polled to within an inch of its life imo
― censored my own brad whitford joke (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:29 (thirteen years ago)
The default assumption is probably similar yo the guy from the reader: this stuff is better than "typical r&b", the thinking mans slow jams, etc
Ha. With all due respect to my guys, who I love, they're not really thinking man's anything. They don't think much about the art they consume, and they're certainly not self-conscious about it. If anything, they'd probably prefer a more ignorant update to slow jams to a smarter one.
So it's probably not the "braininess" or the "artiness" they're responding to, though it probably is the masculinity. That's probably also the appeal of Frank Ocean. It's good, unapologetic dude music.
― Evan R, Friday, 17 June 2011 19:31 (thirteen years ago)
there are hella double standards
there are currently 69 active users standards
― Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:31 (thirteen years ago)
Well sorry if I hurt contenderizer's feelings and ppl think I was being too mean
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:37 (thirteen years ago)
Or I guess really, I'm sorry I wasnt funnier when I was mean
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:38 (thirteen years ago)
Real ilx lesson = it's ok to be a dick as long as ppl are laughing
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:42 (thirteen years ago)
welcome to 2002
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:42 (thirteen years ago)
crosspost to tracy morgan thread
― bnw, Friday, 17 June 2011 19:44 (thirteen years ago)
I was a lot more into Weeknd before I heard Frank Ocean and Nostalgia/ultra clearly blew W out the water.
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:48 (thirteen years ago)
Real ilx lesson of being alive in the world = it's ok to be a dick as long as ppl are laughing
― censored my own brad whitford joke (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:51 (thirteen years ago)
Thats kind of jr high logic more than real world logic
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:59 (thirteen years ago)
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/05/serious_cat.jpg
― some dude, Friday, 17 June 2011 20:04 (thirteen years ago)
Like, sometimes being a dick is being a dick, funny or not. At worst I was attacking ideas he presented in the thread as part out a discussion, not attacking him as a person or bringing up irl shit, which ppl on this board do all the time
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:05 (thirteen years ago)
Do you really think ILX is any more socially advanced than a middle school?! I've thought of the mods as janitors and assistant principals ever since I became one.
― Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:05 (thirteen years ago)
deej, I'm trying to discuss the weeknd here, could you keep it down?
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:06 (thirteen years ago)
I can't believe this managed to turn into *yet another* patronizing referendum on my posting style tho
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:07 (thirteen years ago)
Turquoise Jeep fans hating on hipster-approved R&B itt
― hay lbj hayyy (absolutely clean glasses), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago)
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:12 (thirteen years ago)
deej nobody's going to feel sorry for you because you're constantly trying to turn threads into a patronizing referendum on contenderizer's posting style
― some dude, Friday, 17 June 2011 20:14 (thirteen years ago)
@evan you might be right about masculinity bring a defining attraction for them about it. But I think that tends to be coupled with a "discerning persons taste" a lot of the time! By thinking persons r&b I don't mean like, wire-reading contrast to functional music, per se; I think it could as easily be in opposition to, like, how pop chart music is seen as feminized, where masculine non-charting r&b is the discerning man's alternative
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:14 (thirteen years ago)
If weeknd dude drops a song 5% as good as lemme smang it ill eat my words
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago)
http://appraisalnewsonline.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/10/man_head_spinning.gif
― hay lbj hayyy (absolutely clean glasses), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago)
I think Evan's point is that you are elevating "discerning" as a defining attribute when it seems like, if it comes into play at all, it's as a side-effect/afterthought.
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago)
deej nobody's going to feel sorry for you because you're constantly trying to turn threads into a patronizing referendum on contenderizer's posting style― some dude, Friday, June 17, 2011 9:14 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
― some dude, Friday, June 17, 2011 9:14 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
1 person sympathizes w/ deej here (me)
― underrated mountain goats bootlegs I have owned (history mayne), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:17 (thirteen years ago)
I dunno djp doesn't everyone think of themselves as discerning? This is good bcuz its not bad like x
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago)
Everyone IS discerning; not everyone thinks of themselves as discerning. There is a gap between action and (unknowable) self-perception. Also, the word "discerning" has connotations of being a connoisseur, or rather someone with vested interest in being an arbiter of what is "good" and what is "bad"; my guess is that you would find most people are way less interested in being tastemakers or finding "the best" example of particular piece/style of music than pretty much everyone participating in this discussion.
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:22 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, June 17, 2011 12:37 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark
shit, dude, we've been butting heads long enough that your style doesn't bug me. i mean, i'd be happy to unpack whatever, but i don't know that that would really help, and i'm not sure what you're looking for besides. fwiw, i was playing fast and loose w "mainstream" for a minute there, not being clear about whether i was referring to chartpop or "mainstream criticism." i tried to straighten that out in my last couple posts.
anyway, the big difference here, it seems to me, is that i'm not bothered by the indifference of critics to that with which they're not already at least somewhat familiar. nor am i bothered by the weird/predictable enthusiasms of "generalist" critics when it comes to genres they don't really understand. maybe i should be, but i'm not. when a critic who ought to know better proclaims this or that trivial hype object the greatest R&B album since voodoo, revealing primarily that they don't really pay much attention to the genre, i just shrug. i assume their enthusiasm is valid, even if they lack a frame of reference in which to adequately present it.
an example from my own life: i played the frank ocean mixtape for a modern R&B-hating friend of mine, and he fucking fell in love with it, played it for weeks on end, far more than i ever did, studied it inside and out. he still hates basically every other R&B artist i've ever played for him, except retro-type stuff, which he's still more-or-less indifferent to. i expect that he likes nostalgia, ultra because it bounces off touchstones that are meaningful to him, because its musical values are similar to his own, and because it's funny & seems smart in ways he can relate to. i.e., his enthusiasm is genuine, deeply felt and not the product of a simple lack of exposure to the genre (god knows i've tried). he's certainly not well-versed in the genre, but that's okay. i don't expect him to share my tastes & interests.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:28 (thirteen years ago)
not that i'm "well-versed in the genre," mind. relative to folks like deej, i'm a curious neophyte.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:30 (thirteen years ago)
just a quick qn did someone say the the weeknd album was the best r&b album since voodoo?
― bite this display name (k3vin k.), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:31 (thirteen years ago)
The flispide argument to that is that a lot of music critics are attempting to drive conversation about music via their choices of who te endorse and, as such, have a responsibility to either:
- be more than just passingly versed in genres they wish to talk about;- be more up-front about their lack of genre knowledge when taking on unfamiliar genres
For some, the elevation of something that they consider mediocre due to the amount of time and energy they spend on a given genre by others who are not as familiar with the genre is incredibly maddening as it reinforces the idea that the things that appeal to them in the genre are not worthy of consideration. There's also the quota effect; generally speaking, when someone finds a piece of music or artist that scratches a particular itch, there is a tendency go back to that piece/artist and not explore any further. This is also going to frustrate someone who thinks you've picked the wrong artist.
Parts of this discussion are really going past each other because of the tastemaker/consumer divide and how strongly people are embracing their chosen roles, IMO, and I think some of that is happening because after two or three listens there isn't much reason for a good number of us to go back to The Weeknd's album, so it's weird that it's really resonant for others.
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:37 (thirteen years ago)
I'm not sure I agree that people less invested in the discourse are per se less invested in being discerning but I think to respond further or more credibly I need to not be posting from a phone under my desk at work
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:45 (thirteen years ago)
totally get this, and that's what i was pointing out. i'm just not bothered by this. i'm not bothered even bothered when it comes to genres i'm deeply invested in and artists i seriously dislike. maybe it has something to do with the critic/consumer divide, but i suspect that it's more the product of different personality types. shit like this doesn't ruffle me. the first thing i think is not, "well, they don't know shit" (unless what they're saying is badly written, stupid or factually incorrect). instead my default position is, "hey, at least they got something out of it."
you're right that critics should be more up-front about their own ignorance when it's a factor. don't really expect that, but it'd be nice. don't agree, though, that they need to be well-versed in the genres they wish to talk about, especially if they're not really talking about the genre, per se, but simply this or that artist w/in it. expertise is great, but sometimes a good, strong response is enough, especially when it comes to "consumer guide" type crit.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:47 (thirteen years ago)
lol deej
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, 17 June 2011 20:49 (thirteen years ago)
― Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Friday, June 17, 2011 4:05 PM
looooooooooool
― markers, Friday, 17 June 2011 21:35 (thirteen years ago)
middle schools don't have Ned Raggett.
― hay lbj hayyy (absolutely clean glasses), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:11 (thirteen years ago)
at least not since the '80s
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Friday, June 17, 2011 8:47 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this implies that we're mad at ppl who like the record, instead of mad at ppl who write about it poorly / have poor justifications for it -- if u agree that sucks then we agree
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:13 (thirteen years ago)
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, June 17, 2011 8:22 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
everyone might not think of themselves as discerning, but there is a 'i prefer to trust the experts' (c. calvin & hobbes) that comes into play -- ppl may not think they are discerning, but they like to trust people who are, too. There is, ime, an aura of 'worthiness' to the weeknd that other R&B artists dont get to have -- or, for ex, ne-yo might have that aura on ILX, but he doesn't more broadly w/in critical community.
an example of how this works is how, after sideways came out, sales of merlot plummeted. Did people know they didnt like merlot until they were told they didnt like merlot, etc
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:16 (thirteen years ago)
and i dont really think people need to be well-versed in their genre to talk about it, at all. The problem is the element of cliched thinking. Mark Richardson is not a hip hop guy but i thought his writing on Big L in his 2nd to last resonant frequency column was v. insightful. But he was bringing something to the table instead of parroting received wisdom -- it felt true, rather than what i dont like about that Reader quote: the way it purports to have authority on a genre that it is in fact selling short.
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:19 (thirteen years ago)
(which is weird too bcuz i generally like the dude who wrote it -- i was surprised by that quote)
lol kev
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:22 (thirteen years ago)
is this the Brown v. Ocean thread
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:23 (thirteen years ago)
i still don't understand why people still group this guy & frank ocean together aside from the fact that they both put out albums w/in a few weeks of each other
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:23 (thirteen years ago)
lol r&beef
― The Brainwasher, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:23 (thirteen years ago)
just crackin open my first PBR gettin ready to watch some twitter beef
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:24 (thirteen years ago)
did drake bite the weeknd's swag or were they both doing it at the same time? the visual aestehtic of XO and OVO, the cryptic launguage, b&w photography, etc
also what's the deal with drake loving cough syrup all of a sudden
2011 is weird
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:27 (thirteen years ago)
he hangs out tons w/ lil wayne?
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:28 (thirteen years ago)
drake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weeknd honestly
I fucks with that "dreams money can buy" song
― The Brainwasher, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:28 (thirteen years ago)
no he doesnt! they KNOW each other lets face it
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:30 (thirteen years ago)
idk syrup is pretty prevalent in rap culture
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:30 (thirteen years ago)
i wish drake, wayne & ross would just put their albums out on the same day & packaged together, maybe even they could be on every single song on each other's albums & have their own radio station for those songs
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:31 (thirteen years ago)
lil wayne would never take the time to take this picture, he loves drugs, he'd drink it up not find a cute photo for his instagram
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-C2g1nh7379w/Ter-8HViNII/AAAAAAAAAIE/9QPgQW6InXk/s1600/IMG-20110529-00044.jpg
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:31 (thirteen years ago)
he's so excited about his new toy
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FRHyIakxD6o/TeNOh5VZEjI/AAAAAAAADb4/vNFsPKQAT00/s1600/mwr.jpg
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:34 (thirteen years ago)
― hay lbj hayyy (absolutely clean glasses), Friday, June 17, 2011 5:11 PM (20 minutes ago)
― hay lbj hayyy (absolutely clean glasses), Friday, June 17, 2011 5:11 PM (19 minutes ago)
seriously? this is too bad. I was definitely the Ned at my jr. high, but that was in the 70s. I think there must be a few schools where it's still safe to be Ned, but gee, maybe not.
― Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:34 (thirteen years ago)
i think the problem here is that you're following (?) drake on instagram
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:35 (thirteen years ago)
haha wow that is extremely lame
like people who tweet about how drunk/high they are
― The Brainwasher, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:35 (thirteen years ago)
its not on instagram dude its on his web site
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:36 (thirteen years ago)
his blog that looks exactly like the weeknd's blog
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Friday, 17 June 2011 22:37 (thirteen years ago)
I think we are making complimentary points, not oppositional. The baseline that anchors both is "ppl itt are mad at the writers, not the listeners".
(Also I don't find it surprising that Mark R would write well on stuff in a genre outside of what ppl would assume to be his sweet spot because in interactions here he's always had a very even-handed, holistic take on the music being discussed; "admit your lack of knowledge" is not the right way to express that approach but I intended to included and just didn't because lol too many words + something shiny)
― chupacabra - a delicious burrito (DJP), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:37 (thirteen years ago)
I meant the actual Ned Raggett!
xposts
― hay lbj hayyy (absolutely clean glasses), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:39 (thirteen years ago)
http://octobersveryown.blogspot.com/2011/05/call-up-on-drank.html
― J0rdan S., Friday, 17 June 2011 22:42 (thirteen years ago)
haaa, yeah, I was thinking more of Ned the Universal Force
― Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:42 (thirteen years ago)
Excellent Deej and dan posts in this thread. Love that 'sideways' anecdote. I assume sales of Pinot noir went up?
Yeah the world is rife with what you might call amateur discernment, people explaining what are very basic decisions of taste by reference to qualitative distinctions with questionable evidentiary basis. The tribalism of music taste can obscure this actually but look at how people talk about the newspapers they read or the tv shows they watch (or more pertinently, those they don't).
― Tim F, Friday, 17 June 2011 23:52 (thirteen years ago)
yeah i mean -- does ANYONE actually say "i don't know much about music, i just like the stuff i hear on the radio"? it seems like the less people know about music, the more adamantly dogmatic they are about what music is good and what isn't and why
― some dude, Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:01 (thirteen years ago)
yeah i mean i think anyone today especially should be humble about that stuff when you're talking irl -- to be fair, i might be more curt/ jerk-ish on here because i feel like amongst music nerds the chains are sort of loosed, whereas IRL i have a bunch of friends who know all this shit about beer & when i'm like "yeah i'm not into beer x" they get all omg wtf apoplectic & im like, well, tbf i havent really thought about it or tried to think abt what is going on w/in beer discourse or whatever. Same way I dont judge them for talking about how omg great the last kanye album was. so sometimes i do prob use ilx as more of a sounding board for those kinds of "ugh terrible line of thought" dismissive tendencies (i think a lot of ppl do, here, probably w/ better results than me, but im saying)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:03 (thirteen years ago)
xpost even moreso with movies
― why i am an anarcho-sandwich artist (Neanderthal), Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:04 (thirteen years ago)
Yeah I think that's right, if anything I find myself much less dogmatic than people talk to IRL, always pointing out that even if some pronouncement they've made has purchase in some contexts it's not true across the board.
It is or should be a feature of paying closer attention to music that you start to realize most hard and fast rules aren't really sustainable.
― Tim F, Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:05 (thirteen years ago)
who here cares only about the music they and their friends make
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:06 (thirteen years ago)
lets all make an album like right now right here
this talk of 'experts' just reminded me of this lol onion article, btwhttp://www.theonion.com/articles/man-on-internet-almost-falls-into-world-of-diy-mus,17013/
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:08 (thirteen years ago)
xpost as long as it's not chillwave
― why i am an anarcho-sandwich artist (Neanderthal), Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:08 (thirteen years ago)
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Friday, June 17, 2011 3:13 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
i started out by questioning an instance of what i see as the special and unwarranted enmity that some ILXes seem to reserve for indie-friendly critics who dabble in rap, R&B and dance music, and which is almost always accompanied by a sneering dismissal of the widely-hyped artists they flock around (the weeknd, in this case). we can all easily agree that egregiously bad writing/thinking is objectionable, but that's a different issue.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:10 (thirteen years ago)
lots of indie-friendly critics flock around The-Dream and pretty much all the people sneering at The Weeknd itt listen to him
― some dude, Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:12 (thirteen years ago)
yeah, it's by no means black & white. but fwiw, i took a bunch of shit for joining the terius fan club circa love king and having incorrect opinions. deej just doesn't cotton to my manner of speech. which has maybe embittered me, i dunno. i can't pretend my interest here is completely objective/dispassionate.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:16 (thirteen years ago)
well there is a lot of sneering within the terry squad, but it's all generally shades of difference in a shared fandom of the same artist
― some dude, Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:18 (thirteen years ago)
yeah dream sneering is about the narcissism of small differences, it's a different thing.
because their dabbling is normative, whereas the reverse isn't true: e.g. what R&B heads think of indie rock isn't accepted as being the general truth of indie rock.
That gives their wrongheaded opinions more social weight than they would carry otherwise.
Also, those opinions tend to coincide with bad writing.
― Tim F, Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:21 (thirteen years ago)
― Tim F, Friday, June 17, 2011 6:21 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark
okay, that gets to the heart of it. i get annoyed by the constant (and to my mind, tiresome) complaint that indie-friendly critics are unfairly granted some special right to define discourse & canon. i mean, they often do define discourse & canon, but in a way that strikes me as neither surprising nor especially objectionable. and it seems to me that wrongheaded thinking and bad writing exist pretty much anywhere you care to look for them. they're at least as prevalent in the niche crit written by & for heads as they are in generalist/mainstream stuff.
in the end, i see much of this conflict as a battle between subcultural camps, and the only issue i have is the tendency to treat demonstrations of genre allegiance as good or bad taste/crit.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 02:03 (thirteen years ago)
i mean, they often do define discourse & canon, but in a way that strikes me as neither surprising nor especially objectionable.
which is...
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 02:11 (thirteen years ago)
like, we're explaining why its objectionable, right here, in this thread
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 02:12 (thirteen years ago)
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:03 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
except that music is as much about issues of race / class / gender / identity as life is, & once those become intertwined w/ aesthetics...
i mean, was the civil rights movement (sorry for temporarily trivializing this but bracket it as an exaggerated example that imo is no less related) just about a battle between subcultural camps on a broader scale? the fact is that these kinds of iniquities permeate all aspects of our lives
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 02:15 (thirteen years ago)
i think though most of us in the terry squad sneer by nature, we are long past the point where we're sneering on behalf of terry himself
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 18 June 2011 02:20 (thirteen years ago)
agree, but these issues aren't being directly addressed itt, and i don't imagine much good would result from the attempt. i agree that inequities do permeate all aspects of our lives, but i don't think that all inequities are equally objectionable. like one of mr. jay batman's big peeves was a grudge against the power of majorities to dictate reality, and i just don't agree that that's an intrinsically bad thing.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 03:27 (thirteen years ago)
^ i mean, it certainly can be. it can be terribly unjust. no argument there.
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 03:29 (thirteen years ago)
agree, but these issues aren't being directly addressed itt
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, June 18, 2011 3:27 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is demonstrably incorrect -- it happened as of this most recent revive
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 03:40 (thirteen years ago)
eh, if there's a substantial class/race/gender-gender based objection to the dominance of indie-friendly crit in the US, it hasn't been laid out clean itt.
to tell you the truth, i'm not at all prepared to get into this tonight. i got company over. they're looking at me funny. plus it will make everybody else on ILX hate us. not that i'm saying no...
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 03:57 (thirteen years ago)
i never say no...
― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Saturday, 18 June 2011 03:58 (thirteen years ago)
deej is your problem basically that the Weeknd is crappy r&b that is gaining undue traction w/ hipsters and critics because of its obvious surface indicators of 'depth' and 'seriousness'?
― best way to stop identity theft is bad credit (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 18 June 2011 04:28 (thirteen years ago)
that x how its being impressed upon those ppl thru some not so great argumentative strategies
― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Saturday, 18 June 2011 15:14 (thirteen years ago)
Do you really think ILX is any more socially advanced than a middle school?! I've thought of the mods as janitors and assistant principals ever since I became one.― Mr. Patrick Batman (WmC), Friday, June 17, 2011 4:05 PM
many times, coming into these threads i feel like i'm throwing sawdust on puke
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 18 June 2011 18:50 (thirteen years ago)
the less people know about music, the more adamantly dogmatic they are about what music is good and what isn't and why
this is a partial t-bomb. also that onion mustard enthusiast article is such beautiful gem, a long, fond, familiar lol at the male brain.
― ogmor, Saturday, 18 June 2011 23:34 (thirteen years ago)
brainwasher: I'm reading this Ne-Yo interview in VIBE, and they're asking him about Frank Ocean and The Weeknd smh
me: gughguhg
brainwasher: VIBE: If your 2008 album represented Year Of The Gentleman, 2011 is definitely “Year of the Asshole,” in terms of R&B. What do you think of the wave of explicit R&B that’s popular now?lol WAHT"new wave of explicit R*B"
VIBE: Word. In a lot of ways, Frank Ocean and The Weeknd represent that polar opposite of your style.
NE-YO: I haven’t heard a lot of Frank Ocean’s stuff. I dig “Novacane,” I like his storytelling. Somebody just recently put me up on The Weeknd. I like his vibe; he’s definitely one of those cats that might curse you out on a record, but he’s going to sing, so you almost don’t even notice that he just cursed you out. I dig it though. It’s—for lack of a better word—definitely music you fu@k to, not make love. Even in that, he has some very honest songs. He says “Tell me you love me…I know you don’t love me,” talking to this stripper chick. I feel him on that. Like you need this money; you’re going to treat me like you love me, that’s what I want. That’s some real sh*t.
― *rolls eyez on me* (D-40), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 00:25 (thirteen years ago)
2011 is definitely “Year of the Asshole"
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 06:15 (thirteen years ago)
"Even in that, he has some very honest songs. He says “Tell me you love me…I know you don’t love me,” talking to this stripper chick. I feel him on that. Like you need this money; you’re going to treat me like you love me, that’s what I want. That’s some real sh*t."
― Frogbs Day Afternoon (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 09:32 (thirteen years ago)
I love it when interviewers try to project their own perspective on to their subjects, and they don't bite.
― Evan R, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 16:36 (thirteen years ago)
I love it when interviewers get a chance to talk to one of the biggest mainstream stars of a genre and they just want to ask questions about up-and-coming internet artists.
― let a :) be your ☂ (some dude), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 16:44 (thirteen years ago)
"Who cares what pitchfork thinks"
― *rolls eyez on me* (D-40), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:31 (thirteen years ago)
but you see by ASKING who cares what pitchfork thinks you are showing that you DO care what pitchfork thinks it is a riddle
― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 19:01 (thirteen years ago)
LOL U GUYZ REED PITCHFRK
― lolen deejeneres (H3LP), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 19:07 (thirteen years ago)
the only good thing about this is that it is free. the music is generic crap. aural fabric softener. at least the 3 songs i have listened to. what you need, house of balloons and wicked games. an album with a title song which is a cover. how inventive! what i find the most unbelievable though is that this piece of shit is #1 at metacritic in the 1st half of 2011. that says all about the state of pop music and the state of pop criticism these days. nobody who has ears to listen and a brain to think needs either of them.
― alex in mainhattan, Saturday, 2 July 2011 14:16 (thirteen years ago)
watch me kill this thread now
― r|t|c, Saturday, 2 July 2011 14:27 (thirteen years ago)
- plax (ico), Sunday, 27 March 2011 03:16 (2 months ago) Bookmark
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512WPFZPK9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
that is all
ahaha
Teedra wouldn't tolerate basic bitches squinting through smoke, she'd tell them to clean that shit up.
― Tim F, Saturday, 2 July 2011 22:40 (thirteen years ago)
loooooool
it felt like it was for 30smthg professionals and that you should listen to it w/ a glass of wine and watch the city through your floor-ceiling windows
ie...really good?
oh 20smthg ~creatives~ and their total denial of the 30smthg professional that is already inside them and should be embraced
― lex pretend, Sunday, 3 July 2011 08:02 (thirteen years ago)
he should have worked *the suburbs* in there somewhere imo
― *rolls eyez on me* (D-40), Sunday, 3 July 2011 08:07 (thirteen years ago)
In late breaking news, my Weeknd (and MBDTF) loving friend got hooked onto The-Dream's nine minute epic which gave me some told-you-so credit, so I promptly sealed the deal by making him listen to the more debauched Diddy-Dirty Money tunes and he adores them. I was thinking of doing a kind of R&B-reviving-Prince mix next (since he now predictably loves "Yamaha") prominently featuring "Complex Simplicity" (and, like, "Don't Make Me Wait" and "Schoolin' Life" and etc), at which point the circle will be complete.
― Tim F, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:27 (thirteen years ago)
and "friend lover"!
it's so weird given the unanimous across-the-board love for prince that r&b prince revivalism gets no commercial traction
― lex pretend, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:29 (thirteen years ago)
Yeah obv "Friend Lover"! Several ER tunes may make it, unsurprisingly.
― Tim F, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:32 (thirteen years ago)
oh god i've only just realised that the whole "basic bitch" thing is, like, a ciara diss ;_;
― lex pretend, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:34 (thirteen years ago)
This redeems any dubious origins:
http://wigcrypt.blogspot.com/2011/02/educated-basic-bitch.html
― Tim F, Sunday, 3 July 2011 11:05 (thirteen years ago)
love that post
― these goons were made for waka (The Reverend), Sunday, 3 July 2011 11:05 (thirteen years ago)
Also:
"As long as there are HBCU dorm rooms and $5 Drink Night at clubs in bad neighborhoods there will always be a place for basic bitch music. Some people like simple, uncomplicated music. No concepts, no alter-egos, no experimentation. Just some club bangers, some mid-tempos, some ballads...and thank Jesus in the CD booklet. You may not have MILLIONS of fans but somebody somewhere will buy download your stuff and in a few years your "flop-ass album" will be considered an "underrated classic" (See: Afrodisiac)."
― Tim F, Sunday, 3 July 2011 12:07 (thirteen years ago)
AFRODISIAC IS AN UNDERRATED CLASSIC GODDAMNIT
/basicbitch
― lex pretend, Sunday, 3 July 2011 12:15 (thirteen years ago)
"who is she 2 u" was my favorite song that year probably
― *rolls eyez on me* (D-40), Sunday, 3 July 2011 15:36 (thirteen years ago)
& i didnt even realize it was a leon ware sample until much later!
― *rolls eyez on me* (D-40), Sunday, 3 July 2011 15:37 (thirteen years ago)
how do i find out about r&b prince revivalism?
― Last Friday Night (G.T.F.O.) (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 4 July 2011 04:29 (thirteen years ago)
listen 2 teh-dream
― pearsonic, Monday, 4 July 2011 05:34 (thirteen years ago)
well yeah but is that the only one?
― Last Friday Night (G.T.F.O.) (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 4 July 2011 05:40 (thirteen years ago)
To start with see the songs I just listed above:
Teedra Moses - Complex SimplicityJazmine Sullivan - Don't Make Me WaitElectrik Red - Friend LoverBeyonce - Schoolin Life
― Tim F, Monday, 4 July 2011 07:09 (thirteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJVRVumRR0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ8CjYqZl2E
― the rongest shit i ever wrote (The Brainwasher), Monday, 4 July 2011 07:12 (thirteen years ago)
Nasty Girl always seemed like a straight-up MJ homage to me!
― these goons were made for waka (The Reverend), Monday, 4 July 2011 07:43 (thirteen years ago)
I think it's just the wrong time for Prince revivalism right now? Especially commercially. Maybe that's the reason a lot of this stuff has been co-opted by a lot of people who are essentially house listeners, where Prince revivalism has been going on pretty much since Prince went off the boil in the first place.
― Matt DC, Monday, 4 July 2011 08:48 (thirteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi4tEWU5TEM
never forget
― r|t|c, Monday, 4 July 2011 10:13 (thirteen years ago)
ooh this too then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlCCrP2qIKw
― lex pretend, Monday, 4 July 2011 10:22 (thirteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ_jqvQrYbY
― the pallid white, noseless face of god (The Brainwasher), Monday, 4 July 2011 23:17 (thirteen years ago)
― max, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:17 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:18 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
428 for the weeknd, zero for marsha ambrosius
― *smoke goes back in the blunt* (D-40), Monday, 11 July 2011 01:07 (thirteen years ago)
― DO NOT CALL (The Brainwasher), Monday, 11 July 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago)
blah blah blah long-ass-thread, dude plays his first show this Sunday.
http://www.torontolife.com/daily/hype/to-do-list/2011/07/19/the-pick-weeknd/
― shudder, Wednesday, 20 July 2011 17:25 (thirteen years ago)
Some months later, I'm curious if anybody has had a change of heart about this band. It seemed that so much of the initial criticism was predicated on the false assumption that this was a "fake" R&B act, and somehow illegitimate as such. That seems a much harder position to argue now, though.
― Evan R, Saturday, 23 July 2011 00:29 (thirteen years ago)
i basically disagree w/ both your characterization of the early opposition & the idea that anything has changed in recent months. the past couple revives have been along the lines of 'what we warned has come to pass'
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Saturday, 23 July 2011 00:37 (thirteen years ago)
Haha I was about to post exactly that deej.
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 00:38 (thirteen years ago)
That's unfortunate because that sounds idiotic. Thanks for all the weeknd hysteria because without it I wouldn't be in my weeknd underground bunker with all these canned goods and all this potable water.
― bamcquern, Saturday, 23 July 2011 01:39 (thirteen years ago)
Outside I think they are flaying a real music critic with real integrity and they'll wear his skin as a cape, just like they did to all the others. That's ok, those lovers of fake rnb can't get past this door.
― bamcquern, Saturday, 23 July 2011 01:43 (thirteen years ago)
who said anything about real vs fake R&B??????????
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Saturday, 23 July 2011 01:57 (thirteen years ago)
Evan did. It's always useful to misdefine yr opponent's argument so you can then say "lol that's wrong".
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:00 (thirteen years ago)
tbf i think evan is thinking about an argument that only lex (would've) made
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:02 (thirteen years ago)
tbf lex did set the goalposts pretty firmly in the beginning w/ his guardian piece
― dayo, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:12 (thirteen years ago)
I was basing it on a lot of the "lol pitchfork" talk. Jordan is right; much of that came from Lex (though I do think Lex was voicing a pretty common dismal of the band).
I'm not trying to dismis any criticisms of the group - Deej in particular had a lot of smart ones - but I'm just wondering if opinions about the group have changed now that perceptions about them changed.
― Evan R, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:13 (thirteen years ago)
what perceptions have changed?
― bnw, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:20 (thirteen years ago)
right, totally forgot about lex's guardian piece
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:20 (thirteen years ago)
i get where evan is coming from, but i don't think many ppl's perceptions of them have changed -- not at least until their new material comes out
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:24 (thirteen years ago)
it's not like the weeknd have totally crossed over like frank ocean did in the last couple months or anything
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:25 (thirteen years ago)
so we are talking more mainstream love
― bnw, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:28 (thirteen years ago)
not necessarily, but i'm saying the act they got compared to a lot initially has totally blown up and reached a wider audience in a way they haven't
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:31 (thirteen years ago)
Ugh at that Toronto Life article about Drake, The Weeknd and the rise of middle class rap.
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:31 (thirteen years ago)
From memory wasn't the "real R&B fans" heading for Lex's article a sub-editorial intrusion anyway?
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:32 (thirteen years ago)
middle class rap is the new soccer mom
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:32 (thirteen years ago)
pretty sure that lex was actively drawing lines in the sand between real and fake R&B xp
― dayo, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:35 (thirteen years ago)
pretty sure that lex actively draws lines in the sand between real and fake breakfast when he gets out of bed in the morning
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:41 (thirteen years ago)
can't believe some dude eats fake breakfast every morning :>
― dayo, Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:41 (thirteen years ago)
finds some real shoes to wear for the day, berates the fake shoes before he goes out (xpost)
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:42 (thirteen years ago)
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 23 July 2011 02:42 (thirteen years ago)
Lex was pretty horrified that Beyonce was eating fake breakfast in that recent photo shoot IIRC. Maybe she was chilling to The Weeknd in that shot. I couldn't see any smoke tho.
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 03:06 (thirteen years ago)
fruit loops are a chillwave-esque cereal
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Saturday, 23 July 2011 03:08 (thirteen years ago)
Fruit loops are like that chiddy song that samples MGMT I think.
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 03:26 (thirteen years ago)
lol at this thread's latest turn
― bed bath and beyoncé (The Reverend), Saturday, 23 July 2011 05:42 (thirteen years ago)
froot loops are about the most un-chillwave comestible i can think of
― lex pretend, Saturday, 23 July 2011 08:32 (thirteen years ago)
do you know what chillwave is?
― ℗⎣▲✘ (ico), Saturday, 23 July 2011 08:38 (thirteen years ago)
he doesnt know what fruit loops are either
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Saturday, 23 July 2011 13:01 (thirteen years ago)
― Tim F, Friday, July 22, 2011 11:06 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
lol i totally forgot about that when i talked about fake breakfast!
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 13:48 (thirteen years ago)
fruit loops are not really decent cereal btw
― generous doler out of lollies (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2011 15:03 (thirteen years ago)
that's why they're chillwave
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 15:14 (thirteen years ago)
actually pretty shitty, reminds you of an imaginary childhood
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Saturday, 23 July 2011 15:16 (thirteen years ago)
well put
― generous doler out of lollies (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2011 15:21 (thirteen years ago)
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 15:23 (thirteen years ago)
lol @ the misspellings of the pro-Weeknd, anti-critic posts in this revive ("potable" "dismis") One side effect even D-40 couldn't foresee: listening to the Weeknd will cause significant decay in your ability to spell accurately
― in 77 everything is fine (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 23 July 2011 19:08 (thirteen years ago)
1po·ta·bleadj \ˈpō-tə-bəl\Definition of POTABLE: suitable for drinking
― sarahel, Saturday, 23 July 2011 19:12 (thirteen years ago)
...dammit
― in 77 everything is fine (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 23 July 2011 19:36 (thirteen years ago)
thought he meant to say 'portable'
please suggest ban me
I think my typing and spelling were pretty good for being done on a touch screen.
I haven't even heard house of balloons, I just think you guys sound self-important and deluded and humorless most of the time, especially here and on the odd future thread. Yes, humorless even when you're telling jokes; some of you show so much determination and purpose in telling jokes that it makes me think of someone sitting on and zipping up his overpacked suitcase or someone squeezing out a big dry poo or someone pulling on brake cables with raw hands and trying to tighten the screw with pliers or someone writing a thank you note to his great aunt for an overlarge sweater or someone explaining to his brain-damaged older brother for the umpteenth time why he can't have the seasonal starfruit (because he doesn't like starfruit but he can never remember and you should probably just buy the starfruit and let him juice it down his chest and leave it half-eaten) or someone hitting f5 for the fifth time in a minute.
Hey, Drugs, you gonna call me out on my comma splice?
― bamcquern, Saturday, 23 July 2011 20:09 (thirteen years ago)
the only reason i know potable is a word is that 'potent potables' was a category on every celebrity jeopardy sketch on SNL
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago)
^^^
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 23 July 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago)
have been listening to house of balloons a fair bit recently
i'm okay w/ it
― r|t|c, Saturday, 23 July 2011 20:33 (thirteen years ago)
watch me knock your boots off
http://static.igossip.com/photos_2/may_2011/small_Justin_Timberlake_Justin_Timberlkake_andy_samber_knock_boots_way_snl_three_way_gaga.gif
― drowning cool (some dude), Saturday, 23 July 2011 20:52 (thirteen years ago)
Radiohead: The Bends [Capitol, 1995]
Admired by Britcrits, who can't tell whether they're "pop" or "rock," and their record company, which pushed (and shoved) this follow-up until it went gold Stateside, they try to prove "Creep" wasn't a one-shot by pretending that it wasn't a joke. Not that there's anything deeply phony about Thom Yorke's angst--it's just a social given, a mindset that comes as naturally to a '90s guy as the skilled guitar noises that frame it. Thus the words achieve precisely the same pitch of aesthetic necessity as the music, which is none at all. C
― r|t|c, Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:08 (thirteen years ago)
bamcquern seeing how I just pwned myself I don't really see the necessity of calling me out like this, but seeing as you seem amazingly butthurt by just being in the same thread as myself & many of these other folks, then you are certainly welcome to take me up on my 'suggest'ion if you wish
― in 77 everything is fine (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:14 (thirteen years ago)
Man rtc more oblique than ever
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:15 (thirteen years ago)
The Weeknd: House Of Balloons [Internets, 2011]
Admired by Britcrits, who can't tell whether they're "r&b" or "indie," and Tumblr, which pushed (and shoved) this debut until it went Best New Music, they try to prove TLC's "Creep" wasn't a one-shot by pretending that it wasn't a joke. Not that there's anything deeply phony about Abel Tesfaye's sociopathy--it's just a social given, a mindset that comes as naturally to a '00s guy as the skilled synth noises that frame it. Thus the words achieve precisely the same pitch of aesthetic necessity as the music, which is none at all. C
― r|t|c, Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:20 (thirteen years ago)
just thinking aloud guv
― r|t|c, Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:22 (thirteen years ago)
the bends being an A makes it more intersting obv
― r|t|c, Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:24 (thirteen years ago)
Hey, Drugs A. Money, I like you and I think your sn is funny. I'm sorry.
― bamcquern, Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:27 (thirteen years ago)
Don't think bams was attacking you Drugs.
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 July 2011 23:30 (thirteen years ago)
xpost.
lol @ "internets," when did rtc turn into byron crawford
― drowning cool (some dude), Sunday, 24 July 2011 01:46 (thirteen years ago)
it's okay bam. my bad.
i learned a new word today! :DDDDDDD
― in 77 everything is fine (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 24 July 2011 02:28 (thirteen years ago)
"internets" is pretty widely-spread meme.
― bed bath and beyoncé (The Reverend), Sunday, 24 July 2011 04:43 (thirteen years ago)
yeah but there are only like a handful of people i've seen use it constantly like it's still as funny as the day gwb first said it
― drowning cool (some dude), Sunday, 24 July 2011 21:12 (thirteen years ago)
internets 2: electronic boogaloo
― sarahel, Sunday, 24 July 2011 21:37 (thirteen years ago)
these dudes are responsible for getting Rich Hil a deal
http://www.observer.com/2011/08/rich-hilfiger-tommy-hilfiger-ra/
― (gr8080), Monday, 15 August 2011 23:41 (thirteen years ago)
ha that and the new drake album are going to torpedo their hipster appeal so fast
― forkshighwaytopoopon (some dude), Monday, 15 August 2011 23:42 (thirteen years ago)
its taken a few months but i can finally say "some due otm" itt
― (gr8080), Monday, 15 August 2011 23:50 (thirteen years ago)
i talked a lot of random shit itt, so i don't know what exactly you're referring to but ok!
― forkshighwaytopoopon (some dude), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 00:07 (thirteen years ago)
Yikes at that article.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 04:15 (thirteen years ago)
dude talks pretty much exactly like the guys who wore tommy hilfiger gear at my high school
― like a musical album. made by a band. (fucking in the streets), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 05:09 (thirteen years ago)
RIP weeknd
― like a musical album. made by a band. (fucking in the streets), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 05:10 (thirteen years ago)
http://prettymuchamazing.com/reviews/albumreviews/thursday-8
http://prettymuchamazing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/THE-WEEKND-THURSDAY1.jpg
― jaxon, Friday, 19 August 2011 04:44 (thirteen years ago)
http://twenty-somethingtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/haters_gonna_hate.gif
― jaxon, Friday, 19 August 2011 04:45 (thirteen years ago)
lol just came here to post this
― markers, Friday, 19 August 2011 04:51 (thirteen years ago)
their music pretty much sucks from what i've heard of it, is this any better?
― mark (er) s (k3vin k.), Friday, 19 August 2011 04:55 (thirteen years ago)
idk i was listening to the new evanescence single and pj harvey and probably won't be checking this out
― markers, Friday, 19 August 2011 05:10 (thirteen years ago)
i wish this guy would get on spotify so i could continue having an opinion on his music w/o having to download an album every 4 months
― J0rdan S., Friday, 19 August 2011 07:56 (thirteen years ago)
first album still has some jams tho
listening back to "glass table girls" and just before the "nightmare... ELM STREET" line he quotes pharrell's "drop it like it's hot" verse
― J0rdan S., Friday, 19 August 2011 07:59 (thirteen years ago)
U_U
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Friday, 19 August 2011 12:31 (thirteen years ago)
i thought i was over this dude but now he goes and gives me COLOR PHOTOS ON THE COVER ART i'm gonna have to dip back in
― (gr8080), Friday, 19 August 2011 12:33 (thirteen years ago)
http://thejesusvirus.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Hardship1.jpg
― hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Friday, 19 August 2011 14:17 (thirteen years ago)
There's some OK stuff here, but this new one really, really drags
― Evan R, Friday, 19 August 2011 15:57 (thirteen years ago)
nothing standout at all. i like drake's verse on 'the zone' however..
― mingalaba, Saturday, 20 August 2011 08:13 (thirteen years ago)
also: album art is terrible
― mingalaba, Saturday, 20 August 2011 08:15 (thirteen years ago)
Looks like a poster for a dance night.
― bamcquern, Saturday, 20 August 2011 08:17 (thirteen years ago)
lol gr80
― some dude, Saturday, 20 August 2011 11:06 (thirteen years ago)
― mingalaba, Friday, August 19, 2011 10:13 PM (Yesterday)
^^how i feel after 2 listens.
― (gr8080), Saturday, 20 August 2011 14:24 (thirteen years ago)
dj played "the morning" as the club was closing tonite.
watching the end of a party through suddenly bright lights and confused drunk ppl :-\
― (gr8080), Saturday, 20 August 2011 14:27 (thirteen years ago)
oops
closin' time, ugly lights, everybody's inspected. but u are a natural beauty, unaffected.
terrible cover art btw, does not make me want to listen at all.
― mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:04 (thirteen years ago)
i forget did u like these dudes
― funky house septics (D-40), Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:05 (thirteen years ago)
oh apparently you didnt post
― funky house septics (D-40), Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:06 (thirteen years ago)
it caught my ear for a weeknd, if you will
― mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:11 (thirteen years ago)
pretty sure i haven't heard them once since february ended
― mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:12 (thirteen years ago)
also LOL @ rich hil
― mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:15 (thirteen years ago)
http://barthel.tumblr.com/post/9353037889/my-review-of-the-weeknds-thursday
― jaymc, Thursday, 25 August 2011 17:50 (thirteen years ago)
love that. pow!
― lex pretend, Thursday, 25 August 2011 18:46 (thirteen years ago)
i wonder if meshell ndegéocello's awesome new space-r&b-with-sexy-bassline single is gonna get as many people going nuts for it
― lex pretend, Thursday, 25 August 2011 18:47 (thirteen years ago)
Oh for fuck's sake didn't we just go through this a month ago?
― Evan R, Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:04 (thirteen years ago)
you don't have the itch
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:05 (thirteen years ago)
Seriously, I thought the anti-Weeknd camp was moving AWAY from framing their critiques in "Real R&B" terms. Christ.
― Evan R, Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:06 (thirteen years ago)
that was a question btw xp
there isn't even any buzz surrounding this EP, so yeah we don't need to hash this out again
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:06 (thirteen years ago)
r.i.p. the weeknd
― (gr8080), Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:13 (thirteen years ago)
generally speaking
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:14 (thirteen years ago)
I can't really bring myself to get too worked up about Barthel's post one way or another, but I would've been disappointed in ILM if no one posted it.
― jaymc, Thursday, 25 August 2011 19:17 (thirteen years ago)
lol otm
― (gr8080), Thursday, 25 August 2011 20:02 (thirteen years ago)
oh lol you were the one who posted it
― (gr8080), Thursday, 25 August 2011 20:03 (thirteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIB_JTv32-U
― r|t|c, Thursday, 25 August 2011 20:41 (thirteen years ago)
kindof curious about hearing this but the cover is too terrible so i have to get over that i suppose
― plax (ico), Thursday, 25 August 2011 20:41 (thirteen years ago)
okay so i was regretting opening this thread until i listened to that^^^
― plax (ico), Thursday, 25 August 2011 20:47 (thirteen years ago)
say my name remix + enya = ?
― mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Friday, 26 August 2011 00:29 (thirteen years ago)
meshell ndegeocello is real rnb?
― strident gumrakers (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 26 August 2011 17:23 (thirteen years ago)
the florence + the machine remix is pretty dope fuiud
― dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 11:45 (thirteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otl1vgxjBgs
― jaxon, Sunday, 9 October 2011 01:12 (thirteen years ago)
<3
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 9 October 2011 12:11 (thirteen years ago)
is thursday worth checking out?
― 2001: a based godyssey (dayo), Sunday, 9 October 2011 12:32 (thirteen years ago)
"initiation" is good but what the fuck is that album art
― yung huma (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 9 October 2011 15:19 (thirteen years ago)
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lss6crKzwI1qag7ejo1_500.jpg
― yung huma (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 9 October 2011 16:06 (thirteen years ago)
vocal gimmick is too gimmicky and ruins the song for me
― ⚓ (gr8080), Sunday, 9 October 2011 21:23 (thirteen years ago)
also its close enough to dubstep to trigger an automatic "abort! abort!" reaction
"yo, i turned this song on, and seriously turned around my girls clothes was on the ground...that night i was raped...I LOVED IT"
― errant flynn, Sunday, 9 October 2011 21:36 (thirteen years ago)
so is he going to cherrypick the best jams from HOB/Thursday etc. for a real album?
I like the vocal gimmick
― the tune is space, Sunday, 9 October 2011 22:45 (thirteen years ago)
screwed vocals are like catnip to me
http://soundcloud.com/princeclubmusic/love-jackson-original-mix
― 2001: a based godyssey (dayo), Sunday, 9 October 2011 22:48 (thirteen years ago)
^thank you, based godayo
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 9 October 2011 22:54 (thirteen years ago)
i want to somehow hold him accountable for that cover art. wtf, honestly
― een, Sunday, 9 October 2011 22:58 (thirteen years ago)
wait what cover art are we talking about
― ⚓ (gr8080), Sunday, 9 October 2011 23:01 (thirteen years ago)
the "silence" one, apparently the cover for his new mixtape. i mean i guess i shouldn't be surprised at a weeknd cover having rapey vibes but that crosses a line imo
― een, Sunday, 9 October 2011 23:07 (thirteen years ago)
dayo that love jackson track rules!!!
i dont mind screwed vocals at all, i just think the way it sweeps back and forth in "initiation" is cheap and annoying
― ⚓ (gr8080), Sunday, 9 October 2011 23:17 (thirteen years ago)
yea dayo point me toward moer like that track anytime plz
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 9 October 2011 23:19 (thirteen years ago)
haha likewise! I just got it from the mix physical therapy did for opening ceremony
http://www.openingceremony.us/entry.asp?pid=4187
― 2001: a based godyssey (dayo), Sunday, 9 October 2011 23:34 (thirteen years ago)
not sure what exactly the cover art is. this is floating around also
http://www.undergroundcharisma.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-Weeknd-Echoes-of-Silence-cover.jpg
― jaxon, Monday, 10 October 2011 05:23 (thirteen years ago)
― 2001: a based godyssey (dayo), Sunday, October 9, 2011 3:48 PM Bookmark
Damn son, where did you find this?
― turfin' bird (The Reverend), Tuesday, 11 October 2011 23:29 (thirteen years ago)
dayo literally says exactly where he found it two posts before your post
― ⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 03:00 (thirteen years ago)
― yung huma (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 03:02 (thirteen years ago)
DRAMATIC
― turfin' bird (The Reverend), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 03:33 (thirteen years ago)
you cant find that on the internet, gr80
― The boyboy young jess (D-40), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 04:13 (thirteen years ago)
(dj drop reference)
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 October 2011 04:17 (thirteen years ago)
man 'thursday' is kind of crummy goth'n'b
― dayo, Saturday, 22 October 2011 19:12 (thirteen years ago)
Haven't spent much time with Thursday yet, since I'm still hooked on HoB. Nothing really grabbed me the first time through, but then again, nothing really grabbed me on HoB the first time through, either.
Also, he's got a remix of "Marry The Night" coming out on the new Lady Gaga remix disc.
― jer.fairall, Saturday, 22 October 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago)
is still cracks me up that at some point the anonymity veil was dropped and 'they' became 'he' -- i like to imagine him introducing himself like "hi i'm the weeknd"
― some dude, Saturday, 22 October 2011 19:26 (thirteen years ago)
HAHAHAHA
― bamcquern, Sunday, 23 October 2011 00:07 (thirteen years ago)
http://mthrfnkr.com/post/16544118574/looking-at-the-state-of-r-b-is-like-seeing-your-ex
In 2011 we saw a lifeline for R&B arise - Alternative R&B - R&B with an alternative twist and a slight indie aesthetic. Artists like The Weeknd, AlunaGeorge and Creep began to resuscitate a genre that had been kindnapped by producers like Guetta and corrupt record label execs who were obsessed with glossing everything with a tacky euro-dance pop sheen.
The Weeknd recalls Micheal Jackson but if he was on a permament comedown, AlunaGeorge are basically Aaliyah + Timbaland if the former was still alive and Frank Ocean is a modern day Marvin Gaye. Thanks to these a lot, critically R&B has made a comeback...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhttp://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101229043821/headhuntershorrorhouse/images/3/3d/Exploding_head.gif
― DO NOT CALL (The Brainwasher), Friday, 27 January 2012 01:28 (thirteen years ago)
damn i probably should have voted for one of these albums in the poll. i'm w/jaxon and gr80.
― omar little, Friday, 27 January 2012 01:41 (thirteen years ago)
In 2011 we saw a lifeline for R&B arise -
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 January 2012 01:49 (thirteen years ago)
imagine said in Charlie Rose voice
so, what lessons did we learn from this entire phenomenon?
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:09 (thirteen years ago)
i listened to an alunageorge song and she deserves much better than to be included in that sentence. she also sounds nothing like aaliyah+timbaland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmXZuv5BaHg
― lag∞n affiliated (The Reverend), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:22 (thirteen years ago)
Overwritten, and I know Weeknd isn't well liked 'round these parts, but c'mon. Surely Abel Tesfaye > David Guetta, no?
― Who wants to see the great Pavarotti sit on a pie? (jer.fairall), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:25 (thirteen years ago)
they both have their moments. abel has less of them. i'll stump for "when love takes over" to the death.
― lag∞n affiliated (The Reverend), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:30 (thirteen years ago)
Surely Abel Tesfaye > David Guetta, no
Bismark > Stalin
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:34 (thirteen years ago)
who is alunageorge and does she or he sound like aaliyah and timbaland
― J0rdan S., Friday, 27 January 2012 02:39 (thirteen years ago)
read three posts upthread
― lag∞n affiliated (The Reverend), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:50 (thirteen years ago)
oh my bad
― J0rdan S., Friday, 27 January 2012 02:51 (thirteen years ago)
oh for fucks sake this person did not just compare a british person to aaliyah
― J0rdan S., Friday, 27 January 2012 02:52 (thirteen years ago)
anyway this song is actually pretty awesome, but no
― J0rdan S., Friday, 27 January 2012 02:53 (thirteen years ago)
― omar little, Thursday, January 26, 2012 7:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
maybe you'll like this as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPzbKQSJwNM
― guilt is a useless emoticon (D-40), Friday, 27 January 2012 02:58 (thirteen years ago)
haha, i couldn't remember that chicks name and assumed alunageorge was gonna be her until i liked the latter up
― lag∞n affiliated (The Reverend), Friday, 27 January 2012 03:01 (thirteen years ago)
i just see a blank space there for some reason, D.
― omar little, Friday, 27 January 2012 03:03 (thirteen years ago)
nm fixed, safari was wonky
― omar little, Friday, 27 January 2012 03:04 (thirteen years ago)
THEY LOVIN THE CREWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
― some dude, Friday, 27 January 2012 03:06 (thirteen years ago)
that alunageorge track is dope but i am hearing zero timbo/babygirl
― this is funny u bitter dork (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 January 2012 05:44 (thirteen years ago)
Frank Ocean is a modern day Marvin GayeFrank Ocean is a modern day Marvin GayeFrank Ocean is a modern day Marvin GayeFrank Ocean is a modern day Marvin GayeFrank Ocean is a modern day Marvin GayeFrank Ocean is a modern day Marvin GayeFrank Ocean is a modern day Marvin Gaye
O__0
― SOPA/PILLA (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Friday, 27 January 2012 06:11 (thirteen years ago)
I guess cause he released a sorta kinda concept album?
― this is funny u bitter dork (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 January 2012 06:16 (thirteen years ago)
In 2011 we saw a lifeline for R&B arise - Alternative R&B - R&B with an alternative twist and a slight indie aesthetic
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MRin2qg1dlg/SawiOI7F-II/AAAAAAAAADk/UucvxfqkgoI/s1600/0_202fd_ea005bd5_XL.gif
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 27 January 2012 07:42 (thirteen years ago)
That article was released for one purpose, to troll the ilx r&b hive mind.
― SOPA/PILLA (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Friday, 27 January 2012 07:52 (thirteen years ago)
Also, yikes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EH9xuMccy4
― Evan R, Friday, 27 January 2012 15:48 (thirteen years ago)
Quick question: does the "ilx r&b hive mind" hate Abel Tesfaye more for his music or for the attention lavished upon him by critics proclaiming this the rebirth of r&b or whatever?
― Who wants to see the great Pavarotti sit on a pie? (jer.fairall), Friday, 27 January 2012 16:34 (thirteen years ago)
i hate abel tesfaye for his music and i hate critics for their stupidity. more than enough hate to go round :)
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 27 January 2012 16:42 (thirteen years ago)
Fair 'nuff. Really just wondering if ppl are projecting the things critics say about him onto the music itself (which, given that the guy never does interviews, he has never mad any such claims about).
― Who wants to see the great Pavarotti sit on a pie? (jer.fairall), Friday, 27 January 2012 17:42 (thirteen years ago)
the critic plaudits make me hate the weeknd more often but not more vociferously.
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 27 January 2012 18:18 (thirteen years ago)
But there's a difference though between praising the Weeknd as an interesting variation of R&B (which I think he is) and as a better alternative to R&B (which he most certainly is not). A lot of critics have praised him as the former, but has any *real* critic actually suggested the latter? Yeah, that blog post linked above is infuriating, but it's just some shitty blog post from a site called MTHR FNKR. Are any legit critics saying that shit?
― Evan R, Friday, 27 January 2012 18:31 (thirteen years ago)
MTHR FNKR is pretty big for a blog! They used to be "post-dubstep" and they're aspiring to be the next GvB or whatever but for this sort of thing.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:28 (thirteen years ago)
christ, are we at a point where people want to be the NEXT gorilla vs bear? game done passed me by
― this is funny u bitter dork (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:36 (thirteen years ago)
They used to be "post-dubstep" and they're aspiring to be the next GvB
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:41 (thirteen years ago)
― Evan R, Friday, January 27, 2012 12:31 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yes, and they've been linked in this thread & include people that i would consider good critics in other areas
― guilt is a useless emoticon (D-40), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:03 (thirteen years ago)
i mean, i also think you're really overselling the 'interesting variation of R&B' thing
― guilt is a useless emoticon (D-40), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:06 (thirteen years ago)
what's the most astute critic of the weeknd you've read?
― cuteforce, Saturday, 28 January 2012 01:45 (thirteen years ago)
― Who wants to see the great Pavarotti sit on a pie? (jer.fairall), Friday, January 27, 2012 11:34 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
his voice has a near chris brown-level unpleasant piercing quality and his lyrics/subject matter are some eyerolling cokehead deep thoughts shit
― markarles (some dude), Saturday, 28 January 2012 01:52 (thirteen years ago)
That post-dubstep blog has been a source of lolz for me for a while now. Its pretty amazing how embarasing they can be. Even if they post a track I kinda like they make me want to hate on it, they're just that good at being annoying. I mean they've used a picture of James Blake's face as a logo sincet the start :')
― jimitheexploder, Saturday, 28 January 2012 15:01 (thirteen years ago)
They're prob just enthusiastic kids that are good at tumblr though so its hard to hate on that. Wait, nah it prob isn't.
― jimitheexploder, Saturday, 28 January 2012 15:05 (thirteen years ago)
It started as a nice, humble Tumblr blog, but this magazine thing is pretty awful. they keep talking about how "vice is the only magazine cooler than them" and stuff like that.
― cuteforce, Saturday, 28 January 2012 16:59 (thirteen years ago)
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2012/04/this_lady_will_give_you_200_an.php
― ♆ (gr8080), Friday, 13 April 2012 00:45 (thirteen years ago)
ah shit, NSFW!!!!!!!!!!!! (thought it said so in URL)
― ♆ (gr8080), Friday, 13 April 2012 00:46 (thirteen years ago)
lol the nerdy-looking teenage girl that lives next door is blasting The Weeknd through the walls
― some dude, Friday, 31 August 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago)
http://www.socialtechpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/nerds.jpg
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Friday, 31 August 2012 17:03 (twelve years ago)
My neighbors are always blasting Black Eyed Peas. I wanna trade neighbors.
― this is the dream of avril and chad (jer.fairall), Friday, 31 August 2012 21:54 (twelve years ago)
my neighbor just talks about the dallas cowboys really loud on the phone
― ○ (gr8080), Friday, 31 August 2012 22:54 (twelve years ago)
One of my neighbors was blasting Heart the other day and I was like <3<3<3
― The Reverend, Friday, 31 August 2012 22:55 (twelve years ago)
i will admit that whenever this thread gets revived i always hope something hilarious has happened to this dude
― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Friday, 31 August 2012 22:56 (twelve years ago)
like marry lana del rey?
― some dude, Friday, 31 August 2012 22:58 (twelve years ago)
or like... it turns out he stole all of his songs from someone
― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Friday, 31 August 2012 22:59 (twelve years ago)
the Weeknd track on the 2 Chainz album is painful for me to listen to, do people seriously enjoy this guy's singing
― some dude, Friday, 31 August 2012 23:18 (twelve years ago)
i dont know dude
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (1918 of them)
― ○ (gr8080), Friday, 31 August 2012 23:21 (twelve years ago)
i realize he is popular, i'm just saying it boggles my mind
― some dude, Friday, 31 August 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago)
i know, dude
― ○ (gr8080), Friday, 31 August 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago)
sorry gr80
― cute, banned, alert (some dude), Saturday, 1 September 2012 01:28 (twelve years ago)
(1922 of them)
― ○ (gr8080), Saturday, 1 September 2012 01:30 (twelve years ago)
i was saying "do people like this for the vocals" not "do people like this" obv
― cute, banned, alert (some dude), Saturday, 1 September 2012 01:36 (twelve years ago)
i know, i'm just having some fun and saying "yah bro we talked about it a little already"
― ○ (gr8080), Saturday, 1 September 2012 01:46 (twelve years ago)
The vocals aren't the reason I like it, but I certainly don't dislike them. Not as good as Miguel, probably about as good as Frank Ocean. I dunno, what about the vocals are ppl hating so much?
― this is the dream of avril and chad (jer.fairall), Saturday, 1 September 2012 01:47 (twelve years ago)
:) :) :)
― ○ (gr8080), Saturday, 1 September 2012 01:53 (twelve years ago)
i don't know if there's people besides me, jer, but i just hate the high quavering/sniveling thing
sorry in advance to gr80 again for posting
― cute, banned, alert (some dude), Saturday, 1 September 2012 02:00 (twelve years ago)
(: (: (:
― ○ (gr8080), Saturday, 1 September 2012 03:15 (twelve years ago)
there's one track on the new jeremih album ("feel the bass") that sounds like a pretty obvious weeknd rip
― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 1 September 2012 03:16 (twelve years ago)
man you scared the shit outta me w/ 'new jeremih album'
― k3vin k., Saturday, 1 September 2012 04:13 (twelve years ago)
why are you hating on 'late nights' btw. that tape is front-to-back the shit.
― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 1 September 2012 04:15 (twelve years ago)
idk maybe i'm just uncomfortable with jeremih so blatantly trend-hopping; he carved out a pretty nice niche for himself and then he goes and puts out this half-rapped BS, idk it just isn't the same jeremih i've loved
rtc has my back on this btw
― k3vin k., Saturday, 1 September 2012 04:20 (twelve years ago)
scared the shit outta me meaning i thought i was even more behind on shit than i knew i was
― k3vin k., Saturday, 1 September 2012 04:21 (twelve years ago)
rtc doesn't like anything except uk bass & dancehall fwiw
― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 1 September 2012 04:36 (twelve years ago)
he definitely tries out some... trendy sounds on that tape but it still seems pretty idiosyncratic, the whole thing
haha xp
yeah parts of it are nice, i like the one with the phone number or whatever fine, i just want more of the old jeremih. hopefully he and schultz have a classic in them
― k3vin k., Saturday, 1 September 2012 04:41 (twelve years ago)
i like the tape, it's fun to hear him work with different producers and try on some different sounds, but it's definitely more of a stretch for him than say Trey Songz or Miguel's between-album mixtape stuff, also hoping for another Mick Schultz-heavy retail LP
― cute, banned, alert (some dude), Saturday, 1 September 2012 10:22 (twelve years ago)
http://pitchfork.com/news/47813-the-weeknd-announces-official-release-of-mixtape-trilogy-teams-with-universal-republic/
― this is the dream of avril and chad (jer.fairall), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 01:15 (twelve years ago)
i dont know if ive copped to this yet but i've pretty much done a full 180 on this dude
― ❏❐❑❒ (gr8080), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 01:17 (twelve years ago)
lol "trilogy"
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 12 September 2012 01:26 (twelve years ago)
― The rain in Spin circles mainly on the mansplain (D-40), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 04:07 (twelve years ago)
this sounds good http://hiphop-n-more.com/2012/09/the-weeknd-wicked-games-new-version/
― J0rdan S., Friday, 14 September 2012 17:26 (twelve years ago)
re-master of HoB sounds great
― lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 11 November 2012 00:32 (twelve years ago)
link?
― 乒乓, Sunday, 11 November 2012 00:35 (twelve years ago)
google?
― lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 11 November 2012 00:37 (twelve years ago)
nah
― 乒乓, Sunday, 11 November 2012 00:38 (twelve years ago)
― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Friday, August 31, 2012 11:59 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Well, he did almost kinda do that, of course. Old news though:
http://www.vice.com/read/how-the-producer-of-the-weeknds-breakout-tracks-got-majorly-screwed
Anyway, I have no desire to listen to these remasters or the new tracks, which kinda surprises me since I loved HoB when it dropped.
― weak willie (longneck), Sunday, 11 November 2012 22:44 (twelve years ago)
love that the creative genesis of this project is
http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/ffafd6934abb84d53f53a7d077eb4558.jpg
And I was just like, “Aw, fuck that shit. No man, let’s talk about, fuckin’ and getting too high and trying to fuck bitches and it not working out. Let’s get really grimy about it."
― my hands tra cer (some dude), Sunday, 11 November 2012 22:58 (twelve years ago)
That picture sums up everything. Everything.
― weak willie (longneck), Sunday, 11 November 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago)
BEEN THERE MAN
― fanute da croupier (D-40), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 05:45 (twelve years ago)
i love the fucking phone on the floor on the side of the photo lol
whole damn trilogy thing is on Spotify as of this morning fyi (in the UK at least).
― piscesx, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 05:57 (twelve years ago)
is it a copout to name "trilogy" my favourite release of 2012?
― childish bambino (rennavate), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 17:35 (twelve years ago)
that's how much i love these three mixtapes
except the new mastering fucks up "the knowing" :(
― childish bambino (rennavate), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 17:36 (twelve years ago)
you guys think it sounds much different on the new version? haven't checked it out yet.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 17:39 (twelve years ago)
they just bury the vocals compared to the og version, neutering its epic finale quality, imo, but then again that's my favourite weeknd song so i'm a little protective of it
― childish bambino (rennavate), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 17:42 (twelve years ago)
I could give or take the new mixes, but it's nice hearing these albums again and hearing that they hold up.
Thursday remains really underrated. "The Birds" pt. 1/2 are perfect mid-points for the whole trilogy, and "Gone" is still a great vibe-out jam
― Evan R, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 17:54 (twelve years ago)
I'm counting it as a reissue, just as Pitchfork is. Otherwise, HoB Would essentially be making my Top 10 two years in a row.
― Room 227 (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 19:23 (twelve years ago)
Trilogy version of What You Need minus the Aaliyah sample. Lame!
― Room 227 (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 23:46 (twelve years ago)
they've re*mixed* some of this rather than remastered it haven't they?! baffling.
― piscesx, Thursday, 15 November 2012 02:02 (twelve years ago)
@JonahHillI really like this Weeknd album
― Andy K, Friday, 16 November 2012 02:00 (twelve years ago)
hahahahaha
― ❏❐❑❒ (gr8080), Friday, 16 November 2012 02:10 (twelve years ago)
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2007_Superbad/007SRD_Jonah_Hill_013.jpg
― this is not a benghazi butthurt (some dude), Friday, 16 November 2012 02:24 (twelve years ago)
haaa
― thraeds of life (The Reverend), Friday, 16 November 2012 02:54 (twelve years ago)
bloody good performance on later .. i thought.
can't deny i'm quite tempted to get the reissues ..
is the banshee sample still in the of have they had to clean that out as well ?
― mark e, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 10:03 (twelve years ago)
* still in the mix *
i was there! it was good. he has a great voice. his backup singers were LOVING nona hendryx. (i couldn't help thinking that they'd rather be singing with her..!)
so... canadian trip hop. even down to the reverbed guitars. songs at like 50bpm. nobody loves me, it's true. plus sex. i don't want to get too down on it because he really does have a tremendous voice, and i LIKE a lot of trip hop, and i'm a fan of anybody who uses space and silence and waiting in their music; it's not done much in pop music to my knowledge. i think it's the beats that sort of let it down. they're really stiff-hipped and funkless and martial.
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 28 November 2012 10:21 (twelve years ago)
― some dude, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 12:17 (twelve years ago)
...stiff hipped and funkless...
This is how you know it's trip hop, heh.
― Tim, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 12:58 (twelve years ago)
Wait, is "Tim" Tim F or a different Tim? This is going to confuse me.
― these bitches is my sons and i make dad jokes (The Reverend), Wednesday, 28 November 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago)
Tim F is Tim but Tim is not Tim F
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 21:14 (twelve years ago)
sample clearance?
― the late great, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 21:15 (twelve years ago)
different tim, from before you were born
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 21:22 (twelve years ago)
Yeah, sorry. F and I have been in the same room, we're definitely different.
― Tim, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 22:18 (twelve years ago)
He's smarter, for a start. But I'm older.
tim was there too! he claims to have seen the weeknd trying to put the moves on aforementioned backup singers. i can't vouch for that but i certainly can imagine that being something one would want to do.
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 November 2012 00:15 (twelve years ago)
Not him! One of his band.
― Tim, Thursday, 29 November 2012 07:11 (twelve years ago)
ohh!
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:10 (twelve years ago)
got the reissues.they're beautifully packaged.sounds great, and seeing as i missed out on 2 of the mixtapes when they were released, quite chuffed to get'em as they are perfect moodsetters for these long dark nights.
― mark e, Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:11 (twelve years ago)
The beats are my main problem with the Weeknd really, I remember hearing Romy XX or someone similar play an R&B set in Room Three at Fabric and when she played The Weeknd is just sounded so flat and devoid of I dunno bounce or volume or body or something else that sounds less like a shampoo ad.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:28 (twelve years ago)
c'mon say it, FUNK, you want to say it
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:37 (twelve years ago)
it's times like this, when you find yourself attempting to cajole someone into sounding like chuck eddy on the internet on 10:38 on a thursday morning, that you wonder what the hell is wrong with you
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:38 (twelve years ago)
yesterday i read the set list and i was like "wicked game"?? he sang wicked game???? that would be amazing! and then i realised it wasn't that song which was a considerable disappointment
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:42 (twelve years ago)
I think what I actually mean is bounce, the sound system really threw the failings in the production into relief, especially in the context of all the rest of the stuff that was being played.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:32 (twelve years ago)
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, November 29, 2012 3:37 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what bothers me about this is why does all music have to be funky? there is a time where unfunkiness is required
― childish bambino (rennavate), Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:09 (twelve years ago)
yes, and in my next post i basically make that point. you're right. chopin doesn't need to be funky. many things don't. this doesn't either - obviously, since loads of people like it! but i would like it a lot more if there were more going on in the grooves. pretty much every song seems designed to be this kind of metallic, skeletal platform for his plaintive voice and not much else, which is fine as far as it goes but for me that's not too far, really, incredible as his voice is.
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:14 (twelve years ago)
really like when he sings/falsettos like in rolling stone, the worm turns when he goes into the pleading whine thing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORVz_qeKgvg
― bnw, Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:30 (twelve years ago)
new Smiths-referencing track pretty nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3VIh8ZB-M8
― piscesx, Thursday, 29 November 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago)
be careful what you wish for, i'm listening to these live tracks and it's soooo much worse with live guitar and drums.
https://soundcloud.com/consequenceofsound
(i like the production btw, for me it's the whole point)
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 29 November 2012 18:24 (twelve years ago)
this.
i care not re how this stuff sounds in a club ..
― mark e, Thursday, 29 November 2012 20:02 (twelve years ago)
I wouldn't if djs didn't insist on playing him. :/
― these bitches is my sons and i make dad jokes (The Reverend), Thursday, 29 November 2012 22:47 (twelve years ago)
.. not my problem ...
sounds great on the ireallylovemusic soundsystem which is all i care about ..
― mark e, Thursday, 29 November 2012 23:06 (twelve years ago)
i'm listening to these live tracks and it's soooo much worse with live guitar and drums.
that's how i saw him, with live guitars and drums! well, i say "live"; often the drummer would really wind up and WHACK one of his midi pads and all that would come out would be this tiny, echoing "phoppppppppppppp"
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 30 November 2012 11:12 (twelve years ago)
I like his production a lot but his voice gets grating pretty quickly.
It has just occurred to me that he sings a little bit like Maynard James Keenan of Tool.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Friday, 30 November 2012 13:58 (twelve years ago)
The new album is going to be called Kiss Land.
― Public Brooding Closet (cryptosicko), Monday, 18 March 2013 00:30 (twelve years ago)
You can do better, Abel.
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Monday, 18 March 2013 01:47 (twelve years ago)
So this guy finally did an interview. This part reminded me of the discussion here.
Where do you see yourself in the world of R&B?The only thing R&B about my shit is the style of singing. My inspiration is R. Kelly, Michael Jackson, and Prince, for the vocals anyway. My production and songwriting, and the environment around those vocals are not inspired by R&B at all.
The only thing R&B about my shit is the style of singing. My inspiration is R. Kelly, Michael Jackson, and Prince, for the vocals anyway. My production and songwriting, and the environment around those vocals are not inspired by R&B at all.
So is anyone excited for the album? I wasn't big on the first two songs (they're alright) but the newest one is as good as anything he's done https://soundcloud.com/theweekndxo/love-in-the-sky
Long time reader, first time poster..hope I didn't butcher the formatting.
― Monk, Friday, 2 August 2013 13:13 (eleven years ago)
Something that intrigues me about Abel is that he was in this very rare position of having almost universal critical acclaim, and (at least the potential for) massive commercial success. He took this position and decided to do features for...Rich Hil, Wiz Khalifa, and French Montana. He seems to have little interest in keeping the Cool Kids on his bandwagon, which genuinely surprises me, given the image of who I thought he was that I had in my mind.
I've noticed that his hardcore fans seem excited but not necessarily thrilled with his new material, rap and R&B blogs seem almost neutral, and many indie music blogs are not feeling it much at all.
I'm really looking forward to listening to the new album, and I'm interested to see where his career, and the narrative surrounding his career, is in a few years.
― Monk, Friday, 2 August 2013 13:57 (eleven years ago)
had some long thing written and saved, but ditched it copying a network password. so you can thank network passwords. god i had a lot to say itt.
"love in the sky" takes a while to get there, but god from two minutes out. other two are okay. like the portishead sample in "belong to the world" more than the track as a whole.
― IIIrd Datekeeper (contenderizer), Friday, 2 August 2013 14:17 (eleven years ago)
come on in, monk. keg's in the back, five bucks for a cup.
― IIIrd Datekeeper (contenderizer), Friday, 2 August 2013 14:18 (eleven years ago)
not loving the "asian lesbian porn" theme, but i suppose that's secondary
― IIIrd Datekeeper (contenderizer), Friday, 2 August 2013 14:21 (eleven years ago)
Ha, thanks!
Speaking of Belong to the World, is everyone up to date regarding the Portishead "sample" mess?
A total "this guy" Abel moment.
― Monk, Friday, 2 August 2013 14:30 (eleven years ago)
Not usually a "loudness war" guy, but man, the mixing on recent Weeknd tracks has just been brutal. At one point on the new track there's an explosion noise, and it's like, sure, why not, just throw more loud shit in there
― Evan R, Friday, 2 August 2013 15:06 (eleven years ago)
He dropped a mini video for this as well, nothing too exciting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weweLG6Or-g
I'm still really loving this song.
― Monk, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 15:20 (eleven years ago)
Kiss Land is good, based on first impressions. "Wanderlust" is almost disco and the title track is convincingly bleak superstardom cliches over a sprawling seven-minute suite, and his voice sounds better than it ever has.
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 3 September 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago)
Not a fan of how they're burying his voice in this, though. But I like the album much more than I thought I would on first listen.
― I make $94k Based God (rennavate), Wednesday, 4 September 2013 14:36 (eleven years ago)
@goinradiodotcom
The Weeknd makes music for straight men who visit Brazil to date transsexuals
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 4 September 2013 23:00 (eleven years ago)
there it is
lock thread
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 4 September 2013 23:58 (eleven years ago)
the weeknd what you need. conference roomweekend? sucksome!_o
{sees r&b transsexual weeknd, not weekend}n-n-n
― how's life, Thursday, 5 September 2013 00:12 (eleven years ago)
This album is a million times better than I expected it to be based on the singles. I'm kind of surprised at the lack of an obvious hit, though maybe Wanderlust could make some waves?
The Drake verse on Live For is very lazy and weird sounding.
― Monk, Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:23 (eleven years ago)
I could barely choke down a single listen of this. It's all so loud and oppressive. Angry Michael drums are one of my least favorite sounds, and this album is just saturated with them.
― Evan R, Thursday, 5 September 2013 14:58 (eleven years ago)
you mean like MJ?
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 5 September 2013 15:00 (eleven years ago)
Yeah, but not universally beloved MJ. Late period, HIStory, all-caps, paranoid, "more is more can we crank that up?" MJ.
― Evan R, Thursday, 5 September 2013 15:05 (eleven years ago)
sure, i love a lot of those songs and teddy riley but some of those snare drums are the worst.
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 5 September 2013 15:13 (eleven years ago)
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/86819/electric-ladies-and-dead-eyed-models-new-albums-from-janelle-monae-and-the-weeknd
etherous
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 15:31 (eleven years ago)
*applauds*
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 15:38 (eleven years ago)
and it's very true, i do really really find myself wanting to like monáe but i kind of don't want to listen to her albums again
After a handful of listens, I think Professional is the best song on here. The album sounds like a natural progression of his earlier work. He didn't play it too safe or too weird. The lyrics, as a whole, are getting a bad warp, but the title track is indeed putrid.
― Monk, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 16:21 (eleven years ago)
I think I like this, but really I like that he sampled Emika and just keep playing "Professional" over and over
― WHAT DOES SAMANTHA FOX SAY (DJP), Thursday, 12 September 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago)
okay I just got to the track that samples "Machine Gun" and um... lost cause here, I don't not actually have the necessary critical distance to dislike things like this
― WHAT DOES SAMANTHA FOX SAY (DJP), Thursday, 12 September 2013 21:45 (eleven years ago)
The Grantland article is excellent. I particularly like "Tesfaye revels in degrading women as a hedonistic, publicist-approved pose — he wears his misogyny like Lana Del Rey dons Eisenhower-era evening gowns."
― Tim F, Thursday, 12 September 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago)
I haven't even gotten to the point where I'm listening to the lyrics, for all I know he could be singing "I just fucked DJP's parents/They're begging me for more/Punched his brother in the dick/And gave his wife a herpes sore"
― WHAT DOES SAMANTHA FOX SAY (DJP), Thursday, 12 September 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago)
xp Yeah that's spot on. At some point his music became less a critique of party-culture hedonism and more an exploitative celebration of it. I still don't think he condones all the awful shit he sings about or anything, but he's engaging in some really gross role playing
― Evan R, Thursday, 12 September 2013 21:51 (eleven years ago)
haven't heard these record but that's great writing.
― My Little Pono (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 13 September 2013 00:22 (eleven years ago)
Someone played this on Spotify in the office today. It was at a fairly low volume and I though, sweet, someone played the Portishead album, I haven't heard this for a while. Turns out it was The Weeknd. Whether it's a sample or not, it sounded exactly like Machine Gun. Barrow's a prick for not allowing the sample and this guy's a prick for doing it anyway and pulling a Vanilla Ice.
― brotherlovesdub, Friday, 13 September 2013 02:22 (eleven years ago)
ime Monae and the Weeknd's fanbases barely overlap at all.
― The Reverend, Friday, 13 September 2013 02:31 (eleven years ago)
Time to announce the joint tour!
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 13 September 2013 02:50 (eleven years ago)
co-sign m@tt
― ᶓ͠סּᴥ͠סּᶔ ᶓͼ᷆ₓͼ᷇ᶔ (gr8080), Friday, 13 September 2013 13:51 (eleven years ago)
i dont dislike this but there arent nearly enough hooks
― johnny crunch, Friday, 20 September 2013 03:03 (eleven years ago)
what the shit is the new video
she's not with me any more so she deserves to die?
blogs calling him a "major badass" for it?
what is wrong with people and in particular this creepy beta basquiat-wannabe cunt
― lex pretend, Friday, 20 September 2013 16:37 (eleven years ago)
what I'm gathering from the general response to this is that I will hate myself for liking this once I start listening to the lyrics
― You are kind, I am jerkface (DJP), Friday, 20 September 2013 16:40 (eleven years ago)
if you just watch the new video it could well cure you of the liking part
― lex pretend, Friday, 20 September 2013 16:41 (eleven years ago)
true, but OTOH I still think "Kim" is a top 3 (if not the best) Eminem song
― You are kind, I am jerkface (DJP), Friday, 20 September 2013 17:06 (eleven years ago)
Ha that video. It's the candid portrayal of everything that is inherently shitty about The Weeknd we've been waiting for.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:23 (eleven years ago)
Wow, the YouTube comments thread on that video :/
― MikoMcha, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:56 (eleven years ago)
Finally, a video where the dude from the Counting Crows murders a woman
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4553577035596702&pid=15.1
― Evan R, Friday, 20 September 2013 18:08 (eleven years ago)
Why did people take his thematic material so much at face value? We all agree that it's horrifying stuff... but to me it just played like a horror movie where the character he plays is trapped in this torturous hedonistic Hell rather than any sort of glorification of that lifestyle.
I'm also pretty bummed people ragged on his sound palette here - I thought it was great. What's wrong with the gaudy maximalist sound he mined? It's hardly subtle but he's not exactly going for a nuanced look at gender identity. I think I read someone comparing the title track to John Carpenter, which is such a great comparison I think - Carpenter's someone who just owns gaudiness and this album to me does the same. The lurid overproduction was leaps more interesting than the stuff he released on Trilogy. But then again, this is coming from a big fan of HIStory-era MJ.
Hope dude keeps doing what he's doing in spite of the acclaim vacuum.
― fennel cartwright, Monday, 24 March 2014 20:30 (eleven years ago)
that's...pretty much the consensus take on his stuff
― some dude, Monday, 24 March 2014 20:58 (eleven years ago)
im all in on in vein, great song
― johnny crunch, Monday, 24 March 2014 20:59 (eleven years ago)
I guess I see a bit of a double standard in that people have been far more offended by this album than they ever would by a lurid horror movie. I think it also bugs me that people like Kanye continue to succeed by being actually misogynistic, while people like Abel who, IMO, skewer people like Kanye quite viciously, somehow end up with the disapproval of the critical establishment. I really do think people see him as someone who actually lives this life, and that it affects the way critics perceive him.
― fennel cartwright, Monday, 24 March 2014 21:26 (eleven years ago)
i mean...if you think he's a moralist who's purely creating a hedonistic strawman character that does things he never does, yeah, that is not generally how people see him.
― some dude, Monday, 24 March 2014 21:51 (eleven years ago)
I wouldn't go so far as moralist, but I definitely think his "IRL" identity probably has very little to do with his stage character. From his Wikipedia "career beginnings":
In Toronto, Tesfaye met producer Jeremy Rose, who had an idea for a dark R&B musical project called "The Weekend".
Seems pretty carefully planned and constructed to me.
― fennel cartwright, Monday, 24 March 2014 22:06 (eleven years ago)
And I have no idea whether he's a moralist or not. Based on the story of him ripping the Barrow sample, he seems like he might not be the most pleasant guy to work with. He seems to have upset a lot of people he's worked with. His split with that producer seemed pretty nasty.
All that aside, the work speaks for itself, and to me it's just way, way, way too gaudy to be taken as anything but a pastiche of that lifestyle. The fact that the album is a moral desolation doesn't mean it's *immoral* like a lot of the criticisms seem to hint at. Wolf of Wall Street is a comparable example of ludicrous depravity. Sorry about all the film comps but I can't think of any musical contemporaries who do such similar themes.
― fennel cartwright, Monday, 24 March 2014 22:17 (eleven years ago)
Don't really think it matters whether or not he lives up to the image presented (were critics really hung up on this?) when that image isn't all that interesting or engaging to begin with. I mean carefully planned and deliberate? Yes, but well constructed? I'd say the trilogy was well put together as a whole but thematically you'll love it or leave it (or love it for novelty then quickly get bored as it goes nowhere).
If you make 40 odd songs about the same shit + vague, self referential lyrics, people are going to start drawing connections and speaking to depth that isn't really there.
― tsrobodo, Monday, 24 March 2014 22:46 (eleven years ago)
tsroboto, did you listen to Kiss Land?! For all the times that Trilogy left things a little too wispy, Kiss Land compensated by basically beating us over the head with the grotesque. I would also level the "not engaging" criticism at Trilogy, but Kiss Land was a pretty tremendous departure from that formula.
― fennel cartwright, Monday, 24 March 2014 23:22 (eleven years ago)
Yeah, a fair number of times. Problem is you're right he doubled down, but on something I don't feel there was much to in the first place. He fleshed out the skeleton but with more bones. He'd mined that theme for all it was worth in the Trilogy. Plus I wouldn't call more vividly grotesque nihilism a tremendous departure from grotesque nihilism.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 00:21 (eleven years ago)
I don't think his theme is necessarily nihilistic. There's too much sadness on his tracks for it to be nihilistic in the same way as, say, the YG stuff is. I also felt the Trilogy left a lot to be said. Sure, he spent a lot of tracks singing about creepy sex, but in too much of a distant way to be engaging to me.
I think, for what it's worth, the inherent creepiness of fame, sex, and hedonism is a good theme to mine! It's certainly underrepresented in contemporary R&B. And I think it also provides a nice counterpoint to the (delightful) bullshit peddled by the R Kellies of the scene. It's fun to indulge in the whole freaky luxury sex fantasy, but I think it's also nice to view it from the sadder perspective the Weeknd offers.
― fennel cartwright, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 00:38 (eleven years ago)
we already had one Drake and that was more than enough
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 01:17 (eleven years ago)
Yeah solipsistic would have been a better term, but even that sadness is very muted and in that sense I don't feel Kiss Land steps far away. We don't really learn much more about creepy sex now that its up close.
But did he really mine it? Is there enough irony here for it to be considered subversion? You're right in that there is room for exploration here but I don't think he's really done it to any meaningful degree. He's very thoroughly explored one angle of it, but if its supposed to be an obverse caricature of what the R Kellies are peddling its an extremely thin one to have stretched over 3 and a half hours.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 01:22 (eleven years ago)
satire is only meaningful if it can be distinguished from the real thing
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 01:24 (eleven years ago)
feel like audience interpretation is a big factor in this too and in my experience half of weeknd stans take this very, very seriously and the other half just think of it as sex music
― katherine, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 01:27 (eleven years ago)
ha that sounds about right
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 01:34 (eleven years ago)
It's certainly underrepresented in contemporary R&B.
really????
maybe 10 years ago, but in recent years (and arguably before that, though perhaps not in the big pop singles) there's not really been a shortage of r&b artists being conflicted about luxury/fame/hedonism etc. a lot of it has been done rather better than the weeknd too
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 07:19 (eleven years ago)
― The Reverend, Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:24 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
there's not really been a shortage of r&b artists being conflicted about luxury/fame/hedonism etc.
This is certainly true but its hard to think of many that went as far as turning it into a consistently depressing horror show.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 09:45 (eleven years ago)
Is there enough irony here for it to be considered subversion?
It's less overt irony... the irony is there by necessary implication. I refuse to believe that anything that out-there is done without at least some self-awareness.
Sure, but the best satire cuts close to the bone, too. There's a reason why A Modest Proposal and UHF are considered to be on different levels.
― fennel cartwright, Tuesday, 25 March 2014 18:11 (eleven years ago)
New track:
https://soundcloud.com/theweekndxo/the-weeknd-often
― You know something? He *did* say "well, yeah" a lot. (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 25 June 2014 16:36 (ten years ago)
One hell of a street team behind this shit, it's everywhere today
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 25 June 2014 16:46 (ten years ago)
fuck this guy imo
― maura, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 16:49 (ten years ago)
and not in the way that he torturously sings about either
lol this is such garbage
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 25 June 2014 17:12 (ten years ago)
~*~*~*~ no one is surprised ~*~*~*~
The "ooh yeah"s feel like self parody at this point.
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 17:32 (ten years ago)
this song is p good
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 26 June 2014 00:46 (ten years ago)
it's hilarious how much his own fanbase hates him now. anything new comes out and it's "everything since House of Balloons has been trash" 24/7 on twitter.
― some dude, Thursday, 26 June 2014 00:51 (ten years ago)
Gotta justify past interest in trash I guess
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 26 June 2014 00:54 (ten years ago)
"everything since House of Balloons has been trash"
this is m/l otm tho
― °ㅇ๐ْ ° (gr8080), Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:06 (ten years ago)
i'm not saying they're wrong (although i could never really stomach the early stuff to begin with), i'm just saying even the stans have turned on him.
― some dude, Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:09 (ten years ago)
omg this song
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I should listen to lyrics more often, I feel like I'm missing some great comedy
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:12 (ten years ago)
did he really just sing "she need to change bladder"
are we sure this isn't a Weird Al alias
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:13 (ten years ago)
via rapgenius:
[Verse 1]I usually love sleeping all aloneThis time around bring your friend with youBut we ain't really going to sleep at allYou ain't gonna catch me with them sneak picturesIn my city I'm a young godThat pussy kill be so viciousMy god white, he in my pocketHe get me redder than the devil 'til I go nauseous
[Hook]She asked me if I do this every day, I said "Often"Asked how many times she rode the wave, "Not so often"Bitches down to do it either way, oftenBaby I can make that pussy rain, oftenOften, often, girl I do this oftenMake that pussy poppin', do it how I want itOften, often, girl I do this oftenMake that pussy poppin', do it how I want itOften
[Verse 2]Infatuated by the fame statusShe wanna ride inside the G-Class Grain, mattedI come around, she leave that nigga like he ain't matterThat girl been drinkin' all day, need to change bladderShe's just happy that the crew's back in townShe 'bout to go downtown for a whole hourIf I had her, you can have her, man it don't matterI'm never sour, I'm just smokin' somethin' much louder
[Hook]
[Bridge]Oooh, the sun's risin' upThe night's almost upThe night's almost doneBut I see your eyesYou wanna go againGirl, I'll go againGirl, I'll go again
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:15 (ten years ago)
a song that cries out for line-by-line annotation if I've ever seen one
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:17 (ten years ago)
"Often""Not so often"
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:18 (ten years ago)
track isn't so bad if you jettison all the lyrics but jesus, this as poisonous a song as this year has to offer and that's keen competition
― go ahead. make vid where u rap about this new TMNT movie. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 8 August 2014 05:52 (ten years ago)
i guess if your pussy rain, it's time to change bladder
― go ahead. make vid where u rap about this new TMNT movie. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 8 August 2014 05:53 (ten years ago)
this verse is p stupid but I really like it, enough to listen to the entire song, ahem, often
is there some better remix or edit out there ?
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 9 December 2014 15:52 (ten years ago)
The new Weeknd song is, bad
― 龜, Tuesday, 26 May 2015 16:28 (ten years ago)
"the morning" still feels nice
― soyrev, Tuesday, 26 May 2015 17:10 (ten years ago)
what is wrong with the new song
― nose, Wednesday, 27 May 2015 14:44 (ten years ago)
It's...it's bad. It's bad and not good
― 龜, Wednesday, 27 May 2015 14:47 (ten years ago)
he says 'friend zone' in it lol
― Keith Mozart (D-40), Friday, 29 May 2015 02:42 (nine years ago)
I'm still gored with an icepick to the forehead every time "Earned It" starts on the bus every morning.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 29 May 2015 02:45 (nine years ago)
had no idea the buses in Miami played music
― gr8080, Friday, 29 May 2015 16:35 (nine years ago)
shuttle
we're all about that bass
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 29 May 2015 17:05 (nine years ago)
"Earned It" is top 5 this year
― The Reverend, Friday, 29 May 2015 20:33 (nine years ago)
Weeknd's sell out crossover material is cool enough with me
― Keith Mozart (D-40), Friday, 29 May 2015 20:42 (nine years ago)
working w Max Martin. hmm
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/magazine/can-the-weeknd-turn-himself-into-the-biggest-pop-star-in-the-world.html?_r=0
― piscesx, Monday, 27 July 2015 16:55 (nine years ago)
‘‘These kids, you know, they don’t have a Michael Jackson,’’ he says. ‘‘They don’t have a Prince. They don’t have a Whitney. Who else is there? Who else can really do it at this point?’’
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Monday, 27 July 2015 20:45 (nine years ago)
I know we've reached the point where "selling out" no longer has the stigma it once did, but this is one of the most cynical things I've read all year. "I changed my sound because I wanted to be as popular as humanly possible."
― Evan R, Monday, 27 July 2015 20:48 (nine years ago)
he had a top 10 hit with Max Martin late last year, in addition to the new one that is at #2 on the charts. i think those songs are better than any of the cool mixtape stuff, so hooray for pop crossover.
― teenage good-ass kinja turtles (some dude), Monday, 27 July 2015 20:49 (nine years ago)
lol you are going to eat those words when some awful, hateful smash single from the upcoming album is inescapable this winter
― Evan R, Monday, 27 July 2015 20:52 (nine years ago)
this dude's music had become so fucking stale, thank god he's trying to become a pop star instead of some sadist fantasy for virgin hypebeasts
― J0rdan S., Monday, 27 July 2015 21:04 (nine years ago)
i don't think it's cynical as much as it was a realization that he had made 85 of the same songs
― J0rdan S., Monday, 27 July 2015 21:08 (nine years ago)
― J0rdan S., Monday, July 27, 2015 5:04 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm; anyone surprised that this guy would sell all the way the fuck out once he got the chance is an incredibly poor judge of character
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:08 (nine years ago)
The last time I rooted for something as vile as The Weeknd to top the pop chart was when I rooted for Joe Lieberman's death in 2007.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:11 (nine years ago)
a realization that he had made 85 of the same songs
and continues to? "earned it" is the only real exception, both the new shits sound similar to his overall aesthetic if not as narcoticized
― extremely lag∞n postings voice (slothroprhymes), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:12 (nine years ago)
im mostly surprised he can remain popular with hair that's basically adam duritz but...worse and zero stage presence
― extremely lag∞n postings voice (slothroprhymes), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:13 (nine years ago)
yeah I love that in his mind becoming Michael Jackson is as easy as willing himself to be Michael Jackson. Never mind the part where Michael danced and entertained and delighted and made great songs
― Evan R, Monday, 27 July 2015 21:15 (nine years ago)
I don't hear MJ in "Can't Feel My Face" at all! In the chorus he sounds like Steve Miller!
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:16 (nine years ago)
agree with this, but this wasn't the conventional wisdom around him at all. Critics badly misread him and his intentions, classifying him as an "indie" artist for a long time despite lots of evidence to the contrary
― Evan R, Monday, 27 July 2015 21:23 (nine years ago)
Who? The blinkered ones might be his fans.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:24 (nine years ago)
dude was on Drake's album in 2011; he was ready.
looking through this thread is fun, also would like to point out that i was otm:
2011 is definitely “Year of the Asshole"― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:15 AM
― you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:34 (nine years ago)
Critics badly misread him and his intentions, classifying him as an "indie" artist for a long time despite lots of evidence to the contrary
He was classified as an Indie artist because he released his music independently, on the Internet, through his own independent record label.
― thom yorke state of mind (voodoo chili), Monday, 27 July 2015 21:36 (nine years ago)
I thought he was considered an indie artist because he sampled Beach House.
― MarkoP, Monday, 27 July 2015 21:42 (nine years ago)
i never recall a drop off in quality so *fast* as his in my life. from House Of Balloons to Kiss Land in a few years.. i've just never known anything like it. Kiss Land was just.. jaw droppingly shit.
― piscesx, Monday, 27 July 2015 23:42 (nine years ago)
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, July 27, 2015 2:16 PM (3 hours ago)
it's the way he ad libs 'and i love it' in the background of some iterations of the chorus, a truly painful imitation
that said it is indeed better than his prior music
― dyl, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 01:16 (nine years ago)
i never recall a drop off in quality so *fast* as his in my life. from House Of Balloons to Kiss Land in a few years.. i've just never known anything like it.Kiss Land was just.. jaw droppingly shit.
― piscesx,
so one of the few artists to go from garbage to shit in a few years
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 01:30 (nine years ago)
2011 is definitely “Year of the Asshole"― Don't start the chain you know? (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:15 AM― you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Monday, July 27, 2015 5:34 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you weren't ambitious enough to be otm, it's clearly Decade of the Asshole
― teenage good-ass kinja turtles (some dude), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 01:45 (nine years ago)
imo House of Balloons was his strongest, there's still some stuff that's held up on that though i never bought into it as an album experience. Thursday was godfuckingawful NIN-parodic circus music, made no sense that the hype train didn't derail there. Echoes was a bit of a redemption, some good stuff and "Initiation" has to be his most (/only) innovative and interesting song. but Kiss Land was beneath shit, just a complete abomination – the only decent thing associated with it was that Pharrell remix bonus track.
his new stuff doesn't strike me as much better. not going to read that article but the quotes pulled here def suggest someone reaching far beyond his stations, esp considering the one time i've seen him live (in a stadium, opening for a Florence show i reviewed in Philadelphia...all that space swallowed him whole, like he could barely get a note in).
― soyrev, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 02:51 (nine years ago)
it's weird that people in this thread are suggesting that whether or not the guy is a good live performer will have any effect on him running the pop charts. i mean...have you SEEN some of the other people who've achieved the success he's going after/has already attained?
― teenage good-ass kinja turtles (some dude), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 02:59 (nine years ago)
didn't notice anyone saying anything to that effect. for my part, the live criticism is apropos of: ‘‘These kids, you know, they don’t have a Michael Jackson. They don’t have a Prince. They don’t have a Whitney. Who else is there? Who else can really do it at this point?’’
― soyrev, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 03:03 (nine years ago)
Do they not have Beyonce in Canada or something
― Classic Man (albvivertine), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 03:07 (nine years ago)
you weren't ambitious enough to be otm, it's clearly Decade of the Asshole― teenage good-ass kinja turtles (some dude), Tuesday, July 28, 2015
― teenage good-ass kinja turtles (some dude), Tuesday, July 28, 2015
eh, every decade is the decade of the asshole. we're going through a studied weeding of assholes from pop culture through fringe intelligentsia atm on the way to a more meaningful reorganization of norms; i think 2011 was a definite final kick of thoughtless asshole freedom before enough voices began to be encouraged and supported to say "HEY THAT GUY'S AN ASSHOLE" and a statistically meaningful chunk of the (online) population responded "hm, indeed, that guy IS an asshole". In 2024, it will be an olympic sport.
― you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 03:15 (nine years ago)
I turn on CNN and it's full of assholes!
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 03:18 (nine years ago)
yes, but that's their slogan.
― you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 03:21 (nine years ago)
I still think that House of Balloons sounds terrific, but everything that I've heard from him, and about him, since has proven just how much of my enjoyment of that record hinged upon my misreading of the Tesfaye persona as having been a character that he was playing.
― The New Gay Sadness (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 03:22 (nine years ago)
― extremely lag∞n postings voice (slothroprhymes), Monday, July 27, 2015 2:13 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Uhh, you are familiar with
http://basquiat.com/images/homepage-image.jpg
...right? (Although still lol at him so blatantly trying to look like Basquiat)
Also, don't fucking compare a black person's dreads to white person's dreads ever. Don't. Don't. Don't. Don't. Don't.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 06:28 (nine years ago)
I'm definitely on the side of thank god he's doing something useful now re: his pop sellout phase.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 06:29 (nine years ago)
I'm sorry rev :/ was not trying to offend
the style works on basqiuat - but basically abel testafaye does is awkward and gross idgi
― extremely lag∞n postings voice (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 10:28 (nine years ago)
that should've been "everything testafaye does is awkward and gross" gah
― extremely lag∞n postings voice (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 10:29 (nine years ago)
okay, someone sent me the ny times piece, and it was way more interesting than i expected. he's got a great narrative. also had no clue that Trilogy went legit platinum, or that he could pack barclays by himself even before all this pop crossover stuff began. curious now to hear the album
― soyrev, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 12:35 (nine years ago)
to be fair, Trilogy was a triple disc and only had to sell 1/3 of a million units to be certified platinum. still, the fact that it did is pretty impressive.
― teenage good-ass kinja turtles (some dude), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 12:38 (nine years ago)
he could pack barclays by himself even before all this pop crossover stuff began
The question with stuff like this is always, yeah, but how big a venue can he play outside New York or Los Angeles (or in his case Toronto)?
Trilogy had really good distribution for an "underground"/"indie" release, btw. I got my copy at Target.
I agree that Kiss Land sucked; I've also hated pretty much everything he's done since. That 50 Shades song was terrible (though the idea of him going large-scale with an orchestra is interesting and good, the execution was weak), "Can't Feel My Face" is just dull, and "Often" is so bad it's actually laughable.
He should record a duet with Lana del Rey. That might actually be good.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 13:01 (nine years ago)
ha yeah – my Best Buy still boasts a couple copies.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 13:05 (nine years ago)
xpost still, the idea that the weeknd could sell 18,000 tickets in any city was a surprise to me. and distro wasn't the concern re: Trilogy for me, i just had no idea that he was affecting culture on that level – though i guess his appearance on one of Take Care's best songs helped open him up big time (doing some search box research now, the fact that each of its three discs counts as an individual "sale" explains a lot, though even then i'm pretty shocked that nearly 350,000 people paid for a Weeknd box set in the span of five months, i.e. well before the Ariana feature and everything since). it's also surprising to me that he's now gunning for, like, Ed Sheeran fame (let alone MJ...), and that caramanica wrote a piece that in some way endorses the idea. also weird that these are the songs responsible for the change, especially "earned it" and "often"...
guess i just heard how bad Kiss Land sucked (and bombed commercially) and figured the writing was on the wall. even though he hasn't musically re-engaged me yet, this redemptive pivot is definitely an interesting turn of events.
― soyrev, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 13:16 (nine years ago)
350,000 people paid for a Weeknd box set in the span of five months
it was priced like a single disc iirc. i bought it, seemed like a bargain
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 13:38 (nine years ago)
nyt profile is real lazy, even contains a "r&b was boring before it absorbed the rhythms of 'indie rock' and before the internet invented frank ocean" paragraph
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 14:03 (nine years ago)
‘These kids, you know, they don’t have a Michael Jackson,’’ he says. ‘‘They don’t have a Prince. They don’t have a Whitney. Who else is there? Who else can really do it at this point?’’
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 14:05 (nine years ago)
At the time, R.&B. — the genre to which the Weeknd notionally belongs — had atrophied. Years of hybridization had left it a submissive sibling to hip-hop, a bland side dish. But as Tesfaye was emerging, so were similarly heretical soul singers like Frank Ocean and Miguel. They made R.&B. laden with references to indie rock and psychedelia for a younger generation accustomed to unexpected juxtapositions. The Internet had made novelty stars, and it had made mash-ups. But with this class of singers, it began to make auteurs.
Tesfaye’s music was a miasma of sensual, slithering rock and soul, cut with melancholic samples of Siouxsie & the Banshees and Cocteau Twins. He also imported hip-hop’s low rumble and vulgar mind-set, molding them to his sound. He moved at a crawl, his sound a dark vortex.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 14:06 (nine years ago)
unpopular opinion: the 50 shades song was better than anything since house of balloons
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:19 (nine years ago)
(low bar I know)
also that wiz khalifa song he was on didn't totally bomb on the charts (wasn't exactly a hit though) so..
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:20 (nine years ago)
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:39 (nine years ago)
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, July 28, 2015 8:01 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what specifically is laughable about often?? it's like the best tropes of his earlier material of his earlier work formatted into one super catchy single. it is masterfully structured and executed.
the above criticism that abel has made the same song 85 times is understandable but i think some of the post-trilogy tracks (often, twenty eight, the hills) elevate the aesthetic to a new level of pop.
Junii Waves 3 months ago Yo no gay shit but this track is hot The Weeknd only makes hits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PqGrfdAw90
there's an untapped monetary market on acts like lana, the weeknd, frank ocean and to lesser extents arctic monkeys and the 1975. these acts embody youth culture and are amongst the true superstars of our age. despite having huge fanbases their success hasn't translated from internet fame to real world viability. this could be outdated ideology, but the opportunity for profit still exists. because of their youthful, immense online followings, they should be turned into household names alike rihanna and kanye (artists who derive great influence from younger internet oriented artists themselves).
this is how i rationalize the weeknd's shift into top 40 oriented material. it makes sense on a purely artistic trajectory too. instead of making sad fetishizing drug music, make happy fetishizing drug music. crazed disco influenced cocaine cowboy is a very viable cultural avatar. it's almost like the weeknd is working backwards; he had his thematic hangover/OD (trilogy) before the party/binge (can't feel my face/BBTM ).
― nose, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 16:19 (nine years ago)
5 writers for the current single. FIVE!
― piscesx, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 16:27 (nine years ago)
max martin and ali payami produced, savan kotecha and peter svensson did the topline, abel did something somewhere, where's the problem
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 16:36 (nine years ago)
nobody inform this clown how many writers were on the trilogy tracks, he may not survive
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 16:38 (nine years ago)
the return of the "beck vs beyonce" meme makes an unexpected appearance.
i too got the trilogy boxset cos it was cheap and nicely packaged, and i actually liked the mixtapes.never bothered with the album, but have since been wondering how on earth a single foggy photo of him in the dark gets so much traction on facebook.
now i know.
― mark e, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 17:17 (nine years ago)
that paragraph re: how r&b had 'atrophied' prior to the supposed wave of indie-rock-influenced artists (or perhaps more accurately, the p4k crowd perking up its ears and finally deciding it was worth covering) is nauseating
besides i'm sure it won't be long before that period of the 'emergence' of 'auteurs' is also written off as atrophied, as arguably some of its figurehead artists are already stooping to (sometimes literally) masturbatory self-parody to significantly diminishing returns. altho who knows, decades-old rockist tropes re: auteurism continue to be received as fresh all this time later so maybe i'm talking nonsense.
― dyl, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 18:28 (nine years ago)
yeah i enjoyed the piece because the narrative is pretty interesting, but there are some strange contentions in there. was struck by how both the article and the weeknd himself seem to have this revisionist bent about his older music. the stuff on kiss land was pretty optimistic in its aspiration to wind up on pop radio (something i wouldn't have inferred it was trying to do), but all this "i hated choruses, i hated structure" talk doesn't totally add up. didn't house of balloons blow up because songs like "what you need" and "the morning" had really clearcut, commanding choruses (and verses, for that matter)? like, echoes had "initiation," but it also opened with an MJ cover
― soyrev, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 01:36 (nine years ago)
doc mckinney and illangelo (and even drake, aside from a few mentions of his manager) being absent from the piece was weird
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 03:07 (nine years ago)
yawn
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 04:26 (nine years ago)
Look I was writing a lot of p4k reviews of R&B in the 2006-2010 era, it's not my fault they averaged about five page views per review.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 05:57 (nine years ago)
Aside from the strange generalisation about R&B that's a great profile. Unusual to see someone so brazenly committed to going for mainstream success. Most people would try to cover that up.
― A swarm of antipathy (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 08:51 (nine years ago)
When "mainstream success" is 100,000 copies sold, what's the point of being secretive about it?
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 10:29 (nine years ago)
Point missed
― A swarm of antipathy (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 12:01 (nine years ago)
I guess I'd need to know how you define "most people."
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 12:16 (nine years ago)
Most artists who started out with lots of underground cachet - free mixtapes, no interviews — wouldn't be quite so blatant about saying they now want to be the biggest pop star in the world and leaping into bed with Max Martin, Sia and 50 Shades of Grey. They'd dress it up a bit and pretend they haven't really changed that much or compromised themselves for success. Apart from Catfish & the Bottlemen, who are reading from the Oasis playbook, I haven't come across such unvarnished ambition in ages.
― A swarm of antipathy (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 12:52 (nine years ago)
this new album is easily gonna sell a million tho
― FLOPSZN (some dude), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 14:26 (nine years ago)
yeah i've asked a lot of artists about making obviously more pop-oriented music and most of them hem and haw and say nothing has changed, it's actually kinda nice to read a guy just being like "yeah i just wanna be super famous"
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 29 July 2015 14:57 (nine years ago)
MIguel's been pretty clear about wanting hits, no? Especially after the experience with the debut.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:02 (nine years ago)
Never cared for his music, only thing I've enjoyed from him is Can't Feel My Face.
― Greer, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:14 (nine years ago)
surely miguel can't be as focused on getting hits now, especially after dropping an album that has basically no singles on it except "coffee"
― dyl, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:20 (nine years ago)
This guy has zero charisma and/or relatability though. Who the hell would want to have sex with him while sober?
― longneck, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:40 (nine years ago)
sorry that suggesting that two out of three original producers of the weeknd might merit mention in a "how we got here" on the weeknd comes off as "boring"
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:41 (nine years ago)
also for someone who lacks relatability a whole lot of bros sure think they relate to him
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:42 (nine years ago)
Ugh.
― longneck, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:52 (nine years ago)
My students – male and female – think he rules, and the love goes back to 2011.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:53 (nine years ago)
(or on House of Balloons)
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 16:16 (nine years ago)
everyone is agreeing with my unpopular opinions, how am I going to be smug now :(
but seriously, I didn't know anyone (small text) else (regular text) actually liked that song
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 16:24 (nine years ago)
it makes sense on a purely artistic trajectory too. instead of making sad fetishizing drug music, make happy fetishizing drug music. crazed disco influenced cocaine cowboy is a very viable cultural avatar.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 16:28 (nine years ago)
first heard "earned it" while shopping for groceries and was like "this is kind of a jam oh my god no it's the weeknd"
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 16:32 (nine years ago)
Agree that since his sad party boy routine was an act it's not too much of a stretch to go to a happy party boy act, but I haven't heard anything from him that makes me think he could pull off that sound.
― Evan R, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 16:35 (nine years ago)
Also R&B circa when Weeknd was making R&B > Top 40 pop circa now, so that's an inherent downgrade imo
Top 40 pop is finally starting to not suck again! I'm totally about this Desrouleaux-wave, especially a nice turnaround since I once considered that guy my mortal enemy. I honestly thought CFMF was him the first time I heard it.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 16:48 (nine years ago)
Rev otm. I don't know what kind of illness I'm reeling from that made me vulnerable to Desrouleauxist weeknds.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 17:00 (nine years ago)
who would have thought jason derulo would be the one to flourish of the post-chris brown wave of pop-r&b acts
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 17:03 (nine years ago)
Well, it wasn't gonna be Jay Sean.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 17:12 (nine years ago)
Should've been Iyaz, obviously
― Evan R, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 17:18 (nine years ago)
It was going to be either him or Trey Songz imo
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:05 (nine years ago)
or jeremih, although I guess that's starting to happen
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:08 (nine years ago)
might have happened sooner if his first big song hadn't been "Birthday Sex"
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:18 (nine years ago)
this "what's going wrong with jeremih's career" piece is already about eight months old nowhttp://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6327425/jeremih-holding-back-his-career
― let's not get too excited w/ the ouches (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:21 (nine years ago)
Derulo always found more success on the pop end of the pop-r&b act spectrum, compared to Trey and Jeremih, who I think are both much closer in style to more traditional R&B singers than him. Derulo's pretty much a non-factor on the R&B charts up until Talk Dirty, but is consistently scoring more pop airplay than Trey Songz and Jeremih.
― Greer, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:25 (nine years ago)
listenability / talent scale is Jeremih > Trey >>DeRulo imo but, yes the inverse has proven true in terms of pop breakout success
― let's not get too excited w/ the ouches (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:27 (nine years ago)
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, July 29, 2015 11:32 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
why
― nose, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:27 (nine years ago)
xp I enjoy all three of them much more than abel of course!
― let's not get too excited w/ the ouches (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:28 (nine years ago)
― nose, Wednesday, July 29, 2015 2:27 PM
b/c Brad has to eat?
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:29 (nine years ago)
forks otm
― Evan R, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:32 (nine years ago)
alfred otm
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:38 (nine years ago)
not really a fan of "earned it" or "can't feel my face" at all and i am not optimistic about the new album but i do really dig the trilogy mixtapes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― marcos, Wednesday, 29 July 2015 18:44 (nine years ago)
12. Dark Times featuring Ed Sheeran
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 5 August 2015 11:28 (nine years ago)
going to be the title of my book about popular music in 2015
― FLOPSZN (some dude), Wednesday, 5 August 2015 13:58 (nine years ago)
A+
― Evan R, Wednesday, 5 August 2015 15:30 (nine years ago)
the singles are definitely the best things on the album
― misterjoshua, Friday, 21 August 2015 18:24 (nine years ago)
that does not make me look forward to the album
― marcos, Friday, 21 August 2015 18:55 (nine years ago)
just started it (for review purposes, i've been over the weeknd for a minute now tbh) and it opens with what is m/l a power ballad
this does not bode well
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 21 August 2015 18:58 (nine years ago)
Interested to hear this. Curious to see how he balances his creepy, creepy persona with big pop ambitions. Does he tame it, or does he run with it?
― Evan R, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:02 (nine years ago)
track two all of a sudden becomes a very synthetic version of big bad voodoo daddy or some neo-swing/lounge shit, like...the moves he's making aside from doing "can't feel my face" don't make any logical sense
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:04 (nine years ago)
xp it's somewhat tamed. same basic vibe but not quite as egregiously gross...which might be worse?
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:08 (nine years ago)
oh yea if HoB is the best thing he's done (which i think it is) then full-on creeper is the best look for him prob
― marcos, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:12 (nine years ago)
sad creeper that is
yea i still kinda like some house of balloons stuff, esp "the morning"
this is gonna sell a zillion copies bc of his preestablished fanbase but it's a mess 5 tracks in. it's fine for him to nakedly grab for pop stardom but to do so with a complete lack of sonic cohesion amounting in 2 ok singles and one pretty good one seems dumb as hell?
not to mention for a wannabe popstar his stage presence is absolutely nonexistent (feel like i've said that before, apologies if repeating self)
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:24 (nine years ago)
i'm curious to hear "In The Night" since that was the one in the NYT article that supposedly made his song publisher scream "IT'S BILLIE JEAN! IT'S BILLIE FUCKING JEAN!"
― some dude, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:28 (nine years ago)
agreed xp, i will def rep for the morning. i still like house of balloons, the other two mixtapes aren't bad imo but HoB is def the best one
the "can't feel my face" video is so telling too! nobody except for maybe one person in the audience gives a shit that he is up there and i know that was intentional but it was such a weird effect since he is trying to give his all onstage
― marcos, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:31 (nine years ago)
there's a talkbox guitar solo on one track, a track that already makes no sense for him bc its an...acoustic ballad
i hate this
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:41 (nine years ago)
― some dude, Friday, August 21, 2015 3:28 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it is just as MJ-aping as "can't feel my face," arguably more so, so...it's kinda decent? but these two tracks arent the norm really
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:56 (nine years ago)
This album is such a slog.
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Friday, 21 August 2015 21:23 (nine years ago)
at one point on the song prod by kanye he sings "i'm never rocking white i'm like a racist" when......................
― J0rdan S., Friday, 21 August 2015 22:04 (nine years ago)
that song is amazing
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 22 August 2015 00:31 (nine years ago)
im that nigga w the hair singin bout poppin pills fuckin bitches livin life so trill
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 22 August 2015 00:32 (nine years ago)
if i had heard this album w/o knowing the narrative their pushing about this being his turn as POP STAR i wouldn't really have thought that much was different
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 22 August 2015 01:06 (nine years ago)
yea def its not commercial at all
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 22 August 2015 01:07 (nine years ago)
track two all of a sudden becomes a very synthetic version of big bad voodoo daddy or some neo-swing/lounge shit, like…
lol agree w/ this tho not a gl
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 22 August 2015 01:18 (nine years ago)
shameless is good also
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 22 August 2015 01:21 (nine years ago)
wow album is terrible
― bla.p, Saturday, 22 August 2015 05:34 (nine years ago)
dunno whose idea this was but man alive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuV_O1vaLVQ
― piscesx, Saturday, 22 August 2015 12:03 (nine years ago)
lmao at dude on the floor sobbing
― nose, Saturday, 22 August 2015 14:36 (nine years ago)
o my holy god
― slothroprhymes, Saturday, 22 August 2015 15:48 (nine years ago)
"someday my son you will be briefly noticed for being emotionally overwhelmed by lana del rey's guest verse and immortalized on film, how do u feel"
(tbf lana's verse is good, prisoner is a decent song)
― slothroprhymes, Saturday, 22 August 2015 15:50 (nine years ago)
can i post on this shitty m board again yet
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Saturday, 22 August 2015 22:12 (nine years ago)
lol no sry
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 22 August 2015 22:26 (nine years ago)
only part of the way thru but so far this stuff doesn't sound much like his older stuff at all? you guys are weird
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 00:09 (nine years ago)
big bad voodoo daddy is a stretch imo...its a pop record
'in the night' is a lil more ... idk billy idol than michael jackson but its good
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 00:11 (nine years ago)
there's def an element of teenager putting on dad's clothes about it though.
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 00:12 (nine years ago)
this is def a corporate pop record in all its roided out glory, for good & ill, but its such a vast improvement over weeknd's usual schtick i'm probably overrating it to a degree. still, about what i expected
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 00:14 (nine years ago)
idk deej this is pretty dull
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 04:49 (nine years ago)
think the biggest issue is that dude needs to pick a style and his throwing shit at the wall approach is a transparent tailspin and not in an interesting way. the MJ ripoffs work, the old weeknd schtick (for better or worse) works for what he seems to want to portray himself as (a douchebag) but like, power ballads? acoustic slow jams? ed sheeran features? that's not iiiiiiiit
― slothroprhymes, Sunday, 23 August 2015 05:17 (nine years ago)
I mean w/e though if I want to listen to a dude whose sadness and anger are tailspinning into (and amplifying pre-existing) misogyny set to music that's actually interesting I'll just put monster or beastmode or 56 nights o ds2 on again for the 9,000th time this week/month
― slothroprhymes, Sunday, 23 August 2015 05:22 (nine years ago)
*or
good to see you again deej btw
idk if i'd classify "real life" as a power ballad
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 05:57 (nine years ago)
my main issue with this record and him in general forever i guess is that he seems barely engaged with anything musical going on around his voice
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 05:59 (nine years ago)
like some of the textures on this record are really pretty and interesting but the singer they revolve around is so inert and detached and capable of like three toplines
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 06:01 (nine years ago)
best part of the record imo
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 06:13 (nine years ago)
this isn't as good as it could have been /was suggested by 'cant feel my face' but
there are easy 4-5 songs i f/w and that could grow to more depending on how present that is in the culture imo
songs that are, off the bat, great: the three singles, + 'tell your friends' and 'as you are'
i'm undecided but leaning towards posi on 'in the night' ... sounds like a forgotten '80s pop record by a band that you don't really think is that good and then you hear it on the radio & ur like, oh yeah this was cool.
softening on the opening track, 'acquainted' and 'shameless' don't have a problem with ballads if well-written .... 'dark times' and 'angel' are uphill for me tbh...undecided on 'prisoner' and 'losers'
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 09:50 (nine years ago)
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, August 23, 2015 1:01 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i dont think he's the one who wrote any of these toplines!
but yeah this is what i mean by saying it sounds like he's trying on his dad's suits to see how they fit...there's a little bit of seams showing in his sell-out moves here. can't tell if i'm noticing bc 'that's the narrative' or if its bc he's just 'not that talented' but either way this is the best of his releases imo
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 09:52 (nine years ago)
nb ive been a day-1 hater so grain of salt
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 09:55 (nine years ago)
there is something so grammy thirsty about this tho lol
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 10:54 (nine years ago)
i mean that in the way that the grammys actually work, not the way we wish they did / think the should
pressed play and smhd within 30 seconds at strawberry letter 23 interpolation. i cba with this album
― r|t|c, Sunday, 23 August 2015 11:36 (nine years ago)
meant more like..... vocally and emotionally capable
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 13:32 (nine years ago)
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, August 23, 2015 5:52 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
got proof for that or are you just vaguely insinuating he has a ghostwriter, because based on the credits and on interviews ("When he saw the lyrics that were sent to him, he found them to be tepid. He rewrote his verse, recorded it and sent it back." -- nyt) he did
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Sunday, 23 August 2015 16:15 (nine years ago)
No proof except that this album clearly had cowriters
And lyrics are not the same as top line melodies ! I have no problem believing he wrote his own lyrics
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 17:23 (nine years ago)
― r|t|c, Sunday, August 23, 2015 6:36 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Do u like any of the singles
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 17:28 (nine years ago)
Feel like the novelty of actually enjoying a weeknd song is still impressing me too much. But tbf it is a huge record too. His whole cult is so trash, kudos to him for transcending it IMO
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 17:29 (nine years ago)
I feel the same about "Can't Feel My Face" and am not ready to like another song of his so soon.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 23 August 2015 17:34 (nine years ago)
well yeah this is it xp
i would appear to enjoy earned it, often, cfmf v much in the wild, know all the words get turnt up among fans etc, but internally there is no cosign, still a sense of derision in fact
kind of appropriate you'd have to say
― r|t|c, Sunday, 23 August 2015 17:57 (nine years ago)
would take a "can't feel my face/in the night" single, rest of the album kinda worthless in the shadow of those two, there should be way more martin/svensson jams on here
imo "dark times" is literally evil
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 17:59 (nine years ago)
i burst out in irl lol first time i listened to cfmf on the internet. the portentous build for that piss limp apologetic "ooh!" still gives me life every time, if in negative
always picture him recording it in the booth nervously glancing across to a lionel hutz type exec giving 2 thumbs up. (felt super gamed when the video seemed to implicitly acknowledge this shittiness)
harmonies later on make it tho
― r|t|c, Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:04 (nine years ago)
has he really transcended his cult? i thought (and the album agrees) that it had just reached critical mass, plus a little artificial kick
― r|t|c, Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:10 (nine years ago)
lolllll xpost
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:11 (nine years ago)
"As you are" and "tell my friends" are fire imho and better than "in the night"
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:11 (nine years ago)
― r|t|c, Sunday, August 23, 2015 1:10 PM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permali
I mean...he was literally incapable of crafting a hit until this year
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:12 (nine years ago)
ha u of all people on earth with the hits line
i don't think there was a cult as such basically, he was popular as fuck v quickly m/l
― r|t|c, Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:14 (nine years ago)
the thing that always bugged me about him was that he was clearly incapable of writing hit records and all these ppl were riding for him as some kind of answer to a "weak state of r&b" that included certified g's like James Fauntleroy
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Sunday, 23 August 2015 18:17 (nine years ago)
was there honestly a "thank god for the weeknd bc modern rnb is weak" response when this dude blew up or is that just an imagined white hipster critic strawman? not a dig on you d40, tbh I didn't pay much attention to the weeknd when those first mix tapes and all the hype dropped so I don't really know, and it doesn't seem to be the case anymore at least?
― marcos, Monday, 24 August 2015 02:50 (nine years ago)
was there honestly a "thank god for the weeknd bc modern rnb is weak" response when this dude blew up or is that just an imagined white hipster critic strawman?
― marcos, Sunday, August 23, 2015 10:50 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
holy fuck yes
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Monday, 24 August 2015 03:49 (nine years ago)
I mean it's literally written into the ny times article that's set the table for all of these narratives
It's also in some sense true in that: the industry totally bottomed out around that time, everyone's shit was leaking like a seive, even r Kelly couldn't get an album out. So from the stance of, like, marketing, he was stepping into a void for r&b. Just not a musical one
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Monday, 24 August 2015 03:50 (nine years ago)
feels like that void is a jeremih album, what a fucking shame that dude can't seem to get his ducks in a row
― Meta Forksclove-Liebeskind (forksclovetofu), Monday, 24 August 2015 06:37 (nine years ago)
the weeknd's self-release strategy allowed him to saunter into a void that was created by major labels freaking out over the possibility of taking chances for the most part (ALL I WANT IS YOU being an exception here)
haven't listened to the leak yet, does he still sound like he'd be a depressingly terrible lay
― maura, Monday, 24 August 2015 14:46 (nine years ago)
oh absolutely
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Monday, 24 August 2015 15:03 (nine years ago)
― Meta Forksclove-Liebeskind (forksclovetofu), Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:37 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
dude had just released an album at that time tho
― drown zoowap (The Reverend), Tuesday, 25 August 2015 02:24 (nine years ago)
jeremih released an album just now? what?
― Meta Forksclove-Liebeskind (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 25 August 2015 04:08 (nine years ago)
a few months before House of Balloons
― drown zoowap (The Reverend), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 06:59 (nine years ago)
Yeah at that time there would have been nothing especially intriguing about a Jeremih release, especially one as ehh as All About You. He came late to the party with his statement piece (Late Nights).
Frank Ocean put up Nostalgia Ultra on his tumblr out of frustration with Def Jam a month before HoB and rode the Odd Future wave and the sheer quality of the thing (Still a few cut above Channel Orange to me)
Jhene Aiko put out her first tape on datpiff same month as HoB and generated buzz off her relative obscurity and understated mystique vs the profile of her features and interesting production.
Those two plus The Weeknd (who also had that heavy Drake cosign) were the arguably the progenitors (and biggest beneficiaries) of the initial wave that saw music bloggers chucking whatever shit that sounded anyhow different at a wall and declaring it the new wave (lots of waves in 2011 iirc) and writing gushing pieces about the death and subsequent revival of R&B courtesy of hipster beer.
Miguel was essentially able to latch onto that self-released new school cred via the Art Dealer Chic tapes. Not sure Kaleidoscope Dream generates the same buzz without that.
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 08:36 (nine years ago)
Tsrobodo otm.
Acquainted is seriously creepy. It gives off child molester vibes. Ugh.
― longneck, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 12:07 (nine years ago)
oh i see what you're getting at now. obvs i mean i wish jeremih had an album out NOW when the cultural landscape is prepared to embrace it rather than having NYT thought pieces about this nudnik.
― Meta Forksclove-Liebeskind (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 27 August 2015 00:40 (nine years ago)
until one minute ago when i was like "i should check out this new weeknd stuff" i genuinely though "i can't feel my face" was a bruno mars song
― flopson, Thursday, 27 August 2015 19:42 (nine years ago)
bruno mors janua vitae
― r|t|c, Thursday, 27 August 2015 20:36 (nine years ago)
FWIW i love the song... been loving it all summer
― flopson, Thursday, 27 August 2015 20:44 (nine years ago)
I haven't fucked with the record yet, but it seems that, as a pure singer, he's unique in context of contemporary african-american music— or in his case, north american of african descent. It's been widely noted (maybe upthread?) that he is of very recent ethiopian descent, which is key to the scales and kind of vibrato that he uses, which would not typically be in the arsenal of, say, Jeremih (i dig the fukk out of "planes" and I have heard it every day oozing out of cars in BK for the past three months) and others who very likely learned to sing in black church in the U.S. I immediately was struck at how different he was when I heard "wicked games."
Don't really get why musically savvy people would be bothered by his creepy dark prince persona. you don't know him and you probably don't know anyone who he fucked and then discarded. His shit illuminates a regrettable but authentic, hugely common experience where men treat women abominably, and how he conveys that is also unique and, fuck, pretty compelling. Or does he not do that anymore on the new sellout record?
― veronica moser, Thursday, 27 August 2015 20:53 (nine years ago)
it's either unique or hugely common, it can't be both
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Thursday, 27 August 2015 20:57 (nine years ago)
K., I have great respect for you, so I do not wish to be smugly mansplain-y when I say it is more than clear above that I am saying that his treatment of hugely common experiences is in my view unique. Ymmv, obv.
― veronica moser, Thursday, 27 August 2015 21:55 (nine years ago)
I don't disrespect you that I know of (I don't know who you are and until 1 hour ago I assumed you were actually someone named Veronica Moser) but even if his (uggggghhhh) take was unique it would have lost its uniqueness somewhere midway through house of balloons
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Thursday, 27 August 2015 23:04 (nine years ago)
i want to know what rtc thinks when he finally hears it
imo, good album, will enjoy its presence in the culture, a positive step for a previously unredeemable artist, probably not going to last for me at the end of the year
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Saturday, 29 August 2015 03:23 (nine years ago)
i am digging "tell your friends" lol
― marcos, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 15:46 (nine years ago)
"often" same old weeknd, yea as mentioned above for better or worse
― marcos, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 15:51 (nine years ago)
I guess I've waited all my life for a sweet male voice to sing ""I think these hoes deserve another fixing."
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 15:55 (nine years ago)
"the hills" & "acquainted also same old weeknd, i am guessing 70% of this is going to be same old weeknd?
― marcos, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 15:59 (nine years ago)
its not about his mentality then vs. now or some 'maturation' or 'growth' its just 100% about writing songs that don't meander & pointlessly revel in atmosphere at the sake of musicality
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 16:15 (nine years ago)
it's all 'old weeknd' in the sense that his POV is pretty much the same throughout
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 16:16 (nine years ago)
actually if anything, "acquainted" is the closest to a new direction for him in terms of his approach to these subjects
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 16:28 (nine years ago)
it is a pretty exhausting album, basically all weeknd albums are imo, i enjoy a track here or there and even HoB which i generally like i can still only listen to a few tracks at a time
xp how so?
― marcos, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 16:30 (nine years ago)
he fell in love!
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 17:15 (nine years ago)
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 17:25 (nine years ago)
xp with like, percocet?
you sure as fuck couldnt tell from beauty behind the madness imo other than on "cant feel my face" and "angel," generally seems to be the same "im a sad druggy boy but sex is so good but women as human beings are so scary but sex is so good" attitude idk
― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 17:28 (nine years ago)
i basically think his approach to pop is as meandering as his atmospheric garbage
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 17:35 (nine years ago)
much as i insist on hating this record "acquainted" got its hooks in me on this relisten
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 18:41 (nine years ago)
― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:28 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no, he says he fell for a girl, usually he's just using them....i'm not saying it's some radical departure though, in fact that's my whole point. he's doubled down on the whole schtick but at least this time around songwriting feels like a more pertinent factor for him
rare brad/deej disagreement here
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 18:43 (nine years ago)
i mean i guess i just disagree that he managed the shift that you and the narrative want to credit him with
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 18:45 (nine years ago)
the good parts of this record feel like accidents
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 18:46 (nine years ago)
for instance the two songs i like as much as "can't feel my face" ("acquainted" and "as you are") are marred by shitty codas
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 19:01 (nine years ago)
Acquainted really makes me want to kick him in the nuts. You're glad you're acquainted? Really? Not good enough!
― longneck, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 19:02 (nine years ago)
some people have expressed gentle enthusiasm about the ldr collab and i would like to ask: why
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 19:07 (nine years ago)
this was samey enough that i started tuning it out but the diane warren-y closer is good/lolzy
― goole, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 20:03 (nine years ago)
drag triplet piano turnarounds :D
― goole, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 20:05 (nine years ago)
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 18:45 (3 hours ago) Permalink
Useless codas still come after actual songs with catchy choruses, radio can just fade them right out
You don't dig the Kanye record?
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 21:59 (nine years ago)
not really. I mean it's kinda funny but the weeknd's voice against kanye's production is kind of a nightmare of treble
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 22:02 (nine years ago)
also "radio can fade them out" if they become singles which they might not in which case they'd remain interminable album tracks
idek what we're disagreeing about. the weeknd will totally be a pop star just not an effective or interesting one imo. he wouldn't be the first. new album is a mess conducted by an avatar who's both uninvolving and reprehensible (and tbh the "I'm actually falling in love" touches make it much worse) just like all his other albums, there's just traces of legitimate craft telegraphed in by cowriters
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 22:13 (nine years ago)
wait, people are seriously taking "acquainted" at face value?????
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 22:59 (nine years ago)
there are people in the world who can hear "baby, you're no good, think I fell for you, nobody's got me feeling this way, you probably think I'm lying, put some more inside your cup and drink till you numb the pain" and not have their bullshit detector go supernova?
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:01 (nine years ago)
I feel like when I first argued that the Weeknd sucked in the original Weeknd thread I was all on my alone getting the "deej...*rolls eyes*" treatment, where tf were all you guys then
At any rate of course he's a clown, that's not news!!
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:34 (nine years ago)
He's an "effective and interesting" pop star on "I can't feel my face" and "as you are" and others, IMO. One he's playing a cartoonishly douchey villain but CFMF is a better record than almost anything it's up against on the radio
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:36 (nine years ago)
I agree. Accepting that position doesn't make me tolerant of this vacuous album though.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:39 (nine years ago)
CFMF is a good song but I can't believe dudes actually think this guy is sincere
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:47 (nine years ago)
He's an "effective and interesting" pop star on "I can't feel my face" and "as you are" and others, IMO
these songs succeed despite him or without him imo
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:55 (nine years ago)
but who knows, the trajectory of my posts on this thread suggest i will like this record by this time next week
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 23:56 (nine years ago)
half this album is really good including ones done by him and his old collaborators
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 2 September 2015 00:53 (nine years ago)
I think this is an obviously flawed record from a flawed artist I just want to push back against the idea that it's just an easily dismissed record that is boring or uninspired, I think in all its fame-thirsty glory it's quite listenable much more often than I'd ever expected
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 05:16 (nine years ago)
It's so fucking weird to me reading writing about this album where everyone is like "gross misogyny tasteless creepy exploitative" etc like really where have you guys all been? It might get a passing reference in the HoB reviews. Is it just post-social media writing ? I'm not saying it's the same people per se but he's not any more creepy than he was four years ago! Folks are doing the same thing with Drake too, it's just wild to me--like everyone has suddenly developed a conscience after years of trying to convince me some of their most cringeworthy shit was actually high art. Now they're both good for a couple actual hits and everyone has discovered their moral compasses
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 05:46 (nine years ago)
Well in drake's case it's not actual hits but actually decent personal writing & good pop songs vs the tepid stuff of his early career, but you get the idea
There's been IMO a huge shift in the way he's talked about and it is really odd
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 05:47 (nine years ago)
two things about that
A) it's not the same people, but a lot of people have been saying this from the start, and
B) as a writer, it is a lot harder to place a piece criticizing an artist for being gross/tasteless/creepy/exploitative when most of the world thinks it's high art.
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 06:23 (nine years ago)
No ones having trouble with it right now! Look at pitchfork at this very moment
And a lot of people may have been saying it from the start but they damn sure weren't posting on ilx
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 06:39 (nine years ago)
I mean to get more to the point, imo there's a disingenuousness to how stuff is covered when it's perceived as new & cool vs when Mainstreamers are getting on board where there's a tipping point and suddenly a moral argument is a lot more fashionable
But maybe I'm being cynical and everyone is just that much more righteous since the advent of Twitter
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 06:41 (nine years ago)
I'm not complaining about ppl realizing he's skeezy---I said as much in the original weeknd thread ages ago--I just think it's odd and suspicious how that was something folks would so readily block out for years and now it's the main argument on everything written about him
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 06:44 (nine years ago)
it's hilarious and appropriate that The Weeknd is the first person i've ever heard sing the word "friendzone" on the radio
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 08:08 (nine years ago)
Friendzöne.
― longneck, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 08:16 (nine years ago)
CFMF is funny and bad
― soyrev, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 10:47 (nine years ago)
really where have you guys all been
tbh was hoping his career was dead after kiss land, prior to this i would've focused on other artists instead of writing a tract about his emptiness
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 11:20 (nine years ago)
― soyrev, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 10:47 (2 hours ago) Permalink
Funny and the best no 1 hit in ages
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 13:11 (nine years ago)
ergo, http://www.allkpop.com
― soyrev, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 13:16 (nine years ago)
xxp tbf the trajectory to pop star was much more likely; kiss land is not that far from this, or HoB, like w/ some editing there were the same ideas there it was just a bit aimless
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 13:17 (nine years ago)
i think it is reasonable that people could tolerate shitty aspects of the weeknd's (or anyone's) persona for a couple albums but then start to wear on it/call it out when we're a few more albums deep, doesn't seem that mysterious to me
― marcos, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 13:19 (nine years ago)
it was transgressive to like the weeknd 3 years ago now it's not
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 2 September 2015 13:29 (nine years ago)
― marcos, Wednesday, September 2, 2015 8:19 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'd buy this if the music now wasn't substantially superior
It's all ppl with cloth ears susceptible to marketing imo
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 14:29 (nine years ago)
It also just strikes me as the kind of "we could like him more of his politics were more like ours" myopia that keeps people from understanding how music works in the real world that like...by the logic of us deciding it's purely his problematic persona that grates, we end up turning criticism into a series of litmus tests
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 15:55 (nine years ago)
politics bullshit. I don't like dealing with players (to put it mildly) in the real world, why the hell do I need to subject myself to it in music as well?
or in other words, it's a matter of "who is this 'we' and what sort and/or gender of person is it made up of?"
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:01 (nine years ago)
that's a bit too simplistic, perhaps a better way of putting it is "I don't like being around people who concoct elaborate mythos with Tolkienesque levels of continuity about how good they think they are at playing women." (that "lana del rey is the girl in my songs and I'm the guy in her songs" quote is amazing -- in one fell swoop it renders both of their entire canons of music hilarious and impossible to take seriously)
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:05 (nine years ago)
sometimes there's no real explanation why mass opinion seems to shift. counter-currents in a conversation come to the fore after a while, who knows? feel like there was a big sigh of relief/"THANK YOU FINALLY" kind of reaction to meaghan garvey's piece on drake, for instance. (drake stans going mini-gamergate on her in response didn't help)
― goole, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:05 (nine years ago)
in one fell swoop it renders both of their entire canons of music hilarious and impossible to take seriously
Without ever making it necessary to answer the question "Why were you taking this seriously in the first place?"
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:12 (nine years ago)
I wasn't but a fuck of a lot of people were
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:23 (nine years ago)
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, September 2, 2015 11:01 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I have no problem with someone finding his whole worldview off putting and saying so, it's more that this reminds me of when people would say shit like "if only Tyler the creator didn't rap about rape, I would love his music!" When rape was like 40% of his lyrical content! Reviews concocting fantasy versions of artists where the artists are different people entirely read to me like people more enamored of the marketing than the music
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:24 (nine years ago)
it's not just his "politics" (lol what a way to characterize the weeknd's schtick) it's that he also has no presence in his own music, so it's just this collapse of hideous signifiers that fail to even take a shape ("i do drugs!" "i don't respect women!"). imo this is cynical and alienates me from his music even when i like it
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:26 (nine years ago)
― goole, Wednesday, September 2, 2015 11:05 AM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
The thing is, people were saying it all along! Like myself and Katherine.
To me seeing it happen with both drake and the weeknd feels like evidence that it has little to do with the quality of the music and a lot more to do with far more arbitrary cycles of cool
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:28 (nine years ago)
i'm not sure who you're really talking about deej
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:29 (nine years ago)
@brad I know there's a lot more to what is wrong w/ his music--IMO, even an extremely critical review could be very interesting (maybe that should say "especially") I think this record could make for some very good music writing ! It's dense in the sense that what makes it good and bad is woven pretty intricately, I suspect part of why I like it is bc it provokes lots of ideas, gives me a lot to respond to, even tho I think dude is corn and his worldview is sadlol
I'm more concerned w the depth of criticism being kind of basic
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:31 (nine years ago)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RNN9S5X4L.jpg
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:33 (nine years ago)
i'm seeing mostly positive (?) reviews floating out there but tbh i'm not very interested in reading about the weeknd beyond this discussion so that's prob why my understanding is impoverished
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:33 (nine years ago)
I pitched the weeknd record but none of my pitches landed so I'm not sure what I'm expected to do here
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:35 (nine years ago)
haha this thread is such a weird ritual of circling around a would-be clusterfuck nobody feels strongly enough to actually start
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:53 (nine years ago)
it is also pretty wild how all the folks who were the biggest weeknd enthusiasts the first time around—Lamp? Grady? Jaxon? have vanished over the years lol
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 21:19 (nine years ago)
no idea what this clusterfuck is, except I get the vague feeling that it is at my expense
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Thursday, 3 September 2015 03:11 (nine years ago)
I doubt it, if anything sd is referring to my 14 posts or whatever
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Thursday, 3 September 2015 04:29 (nine years ago)
Bought this on Sunday, finally listened to it this morning. I think I find the overt Michael Jackson-isms most ridiculous of all ('cause I never liked Jackson that much anyway - was over him by the time I turned 14 - and there's no way this guy is gonna have a career like Jackson's; he would have had to start at age 5, right?), but the Ed Sheeran song is pretty bad, and I still hate "Often." I wish the Lana del Rey song was better. I can't honestly call this "more pop" than his previous work, if only because I don't listen to enough pop music to accurately judge that. There are more uptempo songs than I remember from previous albums, I'll say that. I need to listen to it again, and I will. I like it better than Kiss Land, at any rate.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Thursday, 3 September 2015 12:46 (nine years ago)
tell your friends is a p deec terius fix but i always think how he would 100% say phantom in this couplet
Used to roam on Queen, now I sing Queen street anthemsUsed to hate attention, now I pull up in that wagon
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 6 September 2015 18:03 (nine years ago)
"tell your friends" sounds like a r. kelly shit talking song to me but eh everytime i think something's reminiscent of kells ilx tells me it's the-dream
― some dude, Sunday, 6 September 2015 22:22 (nine years ago)
as if that wasn't a huge vector of influence on terry!
― best beloved george benson (The Reverend), Monday, 7 September 2015 01:30 (nine years ago)
what i'm saying
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 September 2015 01:36 (nine years ago)
just heard the hills on local hiphop/r&b radio now and I thought it was right tbh
― marcos, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 22:07 (nine years ago)
lol and then CFMF on the other urban station like a minute later. Not right imo, that song kinda sucks
― marcos, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 22:22 (nine years ago)
it def sucks. it has some superficial appeal but only insofar as you can ignore how underwritten and underperformed it is.
also that lame-ass descending counterpoint vocal on the chorus that comes in after the first eight bars is weak even as something to spice up a final go-around, but the fact that it happens from the second chorus on (and a total of four times) is where CFMF becomes actively comical. and using the exact same pre-chorus three fucking times in a song is such overkill, esp when you throw a low-pass filter sweep behind one of 'em and make it work overtime as a bridge (so that your song, by the way, literally ends with: pre-chorus, chorus, pre-chorus, chorus). it's the type of try-hard anthem i imagined i would like the first time i heard the opening, but it's total boredom before it even gets to the first verse
― soyrev, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 23:54 (nine years ago)
Cfmf is amazing knock it off
― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Thursday, 10 September 2015 03:53 (nine years ago)
maybe if the craterous landfill of western chart pop in 2015 is the only contemporary chart pop you follow
(disclaimer: talking about pop specifically made for the charts, not the crossover stuff that sometimes winds up there – western rap radio is a very fertile crescent rn)
― soyrev, Thursday, 10 September 2015 04:06 (nine years ago)
the point however is cfmf is a good as hell
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2015 04:52 (nine years ago)
insufficiently familiar w/ grammar too tho
― soyrev, Thursday, 10 September 2015 07:15 (nine years ago)
oh lol sorry don't drink and message board
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2015 12:51 (nine years ago)
gawd, what a lousy review of (the indeed sophomorically titled) album in the New Yorker. Is carrie battan a Pitchfork person? Her paternalistic, banal shit therein suggests as such around…what year did they decide to talk about Ne-Yo and trey Songz again? was the year of PR&B 2011?
― veronica moser, Friday, 11 September 2015 01:03 (nine years ago)
I was gonna post here to make fun of it too. She puts the cliches in the windows like new toys.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 September 2015 02:28 (nine years ago)
resale ticket prices for this dudes tour are out of control ime
― johnny crunch, Monday, 26 October 2015 13:46 (nine years ago)
I like a few of the songs on the album but I don't understand the monstrous appeal of The Hills at all - it's arguably Abel at his most contrived. What do people love about it?
― longneck, Wednesday, 28 October 2015 09:05 (nine years ago)
People loving 'honesty.'
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 10:42 (nine years ago)
and "hooks."
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 10:43 (nine years ago)
― longneck, Wednesday, 28 October 2015 13:28 (nine years ago)
saw this tour last nite, p good his voice still sounds great even in a big arenaevery teen girl around us knew every single word to every song but i guess thats not surprisingminor complaint that he turned glass table girls into kindof a rock song :(
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 15 November 2015 17:21 (nine years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usSj7U6vOtM
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 16:50 (eight years ago)
http://screenprism.com/assets/img/article/starboy.png
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 17:13 (eight years ago)
first the dj q album now this
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 18:11 (eight years ago)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs5aF63WIAARI7k.jpg
^my sentiments exactly
― Jeff W, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 18:21 (eight years ago)
i like the single
― esempiu (crüt), Thursday, 22 September 2016 08:30 (eight years ago)
yeah it's alright
― r|t|c, Thursday, 22 September 2016 11:00 (eight years ago)
it's good
― dyl, Thursday, 22 September 2016 16:33 (eight years ago)
It's a pop song.
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Thursday, 22 September 2016 16:46 (eight years ago)
Wizkid should sue
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 22 September 2016 17:00 (eight years ago)
or mavado i suppose
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 22 September 2016 18:53 (eight years ago)
the verses are pretty good, hook feels a little limp compared to "can't feel my face" (though what wouldn't?)
mostly i think it's pretty hard to pick up on any traces of daft punk so i feel like this is mostly a flex on his part and he prob has better shit in the holster
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 22 September 2016 18:58 (eight years ago)
I like his voice on this but the whole "I'm a muhfuckin starboy" chorus makes him sound so... small, in a mean mugging selfie kind of way. .
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Thursday, 22 September 2016 19:24 (eight years ago)
https://twitter.com/MNEK/status/778861282237767680
the weeknd ate my hamster
― r|t|c, Thursday, 22 September 2016 19:55 (eight years ago)
biffy clyro pic suitably much shittier looking at least
― nashwan, Thursday, 22 September 2016 19:57 (eight years ago)
feat daft punk is def a flex but i was greatly relieved not to hear them so it's cool
have already forgotten this song anyway. lot of waiting around for the lookwhatchadone! meth shiver
― r|t|c, Thursday, 22 September 2016 20:02 (eight years ago)
i finally decided to listen to "i can't feel my face" for the first timeit's p catchystarboy seems decent, both songs really fancy but he seems like a piece of shit misogynist but i spose that's supposed to be the appeal?
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 September 2016 20:56 (eight years ago)
starboy feels forgettable to me
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:28 (eight years ago)
anyone from the rap caviar wave tht isn't a pos misognynist pls step fwd
― ||||||||, Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:42 (eight years ago)
haha rap caviar wave
who is in that wave
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:44 (eight years ago)
anyone that goes hard seeminglyhttps://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/5yolys8XG4q7YfjYGl5Lff
― ||||||||, Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:45 (eight years ago)
haha yeah i subscribe to that playlist
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:48 (eight years ago)
Starboy feels like a classic already.
― Popture, Friday, 23 September 2016 11:06 (eight years ago)
ilx needs a thinking guy emoji button
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 23 September 2016 17:16 (eight years ago)
No
― flopson, Friday, 23 September 2016 17:55 (eight years ago)
― r|t|c, Thursday, September 22, 2016 3:55 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
whotf is Biff Clyro lol
― flopson, Friday, 23 September 2016 17:58 (eight years ago)
Starboy feels like a classic already.― Popture, Friday, September 23, 2016 11:06 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
suggest halpert
― ||||||||, Friday, 23 September 2016 18:02 (eight years ago)
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 23 September 2016 19:08 (eight years ago)
is there a double entendre i am missing or does abel think the name of the movie is "the wraith of khan"
― esempiu (crüt), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 18:10 (eight years ago)
he seems to be in a pretty jaunty mood in the video! also lol @ daft punk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34Na4j8AVgA
― esempiu (crüt), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 18:12 (eight years ago)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxf-O9VVQAElM4y.jpg
― qop (crüt), Friday, 18 November 2016 01:19 (eight years ago)
"I Feel It Coming" is so good
― qop (crüt), Friday, 18 November 2016 05:49 (eight years ago)
yeah that one sounds awesome
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 November 2016 14:47 (eight years ago)
18 tracks seems like a lot
― johnny crunch, Friday, 18 November 2016 15:04 (eight years ago)
I am still amazed this guy's career survived Kiss Land
― Evan R, Friday, 18 November 2016 19:35 (eight years ago)
He has a great voice!
― qop (crüt), Saturday, 19 November 2016 04:41 (eight years ago)
he always had a really strong fanbase but i do remember thinking that maybe he had blown his shot at pop stardom with kiss land
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 19 November 2016 04:44 (eight years ago)
― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:08 (eight years ago)
Some sweet wordplay from AbelAbel is introducing us to his sweet new asian girl by bragging about her ability to either drop it low, or go down low (on him). He says “low, mane” to sound like the popular asian dish known as Lo Mein.
Upvote+17 Share Milan24 minutes agoThat is racist :)
― johnny crunch, Friday, 25 November 2016 17:13 (eight years ago)
there's a track on STARBOY that sounds like luomo
― josh, Saturday, 26 November 2016 00:07 (eight years ago)
He has the definition of an average voice.
― albvivertine, Saturday, 26 November 2016 00:29 (eight years ago)
^seriously? the definition of an average voice is like... the dudes that sing in parquet courts.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 26 November 2016 00:59 (eight years ago)
after "party monster" i was ready to abandon this but "false alarm" kinda flows between bad taste and good taste in a way i find compelling. i mean i guess that's this guy's thing really but it works really well for me when the chorus sounds stolen from a lost bad rabbits song
"reminder" is like... the third song on this album with the exact same phrasing?
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 12:30 (eight years ago)
ok it's righted again with "rockin'" which i assume is the track josh thinks sounds like luomo
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 12:34 (eight years ago)
thing is now that *everything* in pop sounds exactly like this the weeknd has lost his one selling point*
* for me, I suspect for much of his fanbase the selling point is that here's a guy who proudly admits he's an asshole through which they can vicariously be an asshole. or teen choice award voters, I guess? (I doubt they're mutually exclusive, too)
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 15:28 (eight years ago)
worst non-lo mein lyric on this album is "david carradine / i'm gonna die when i cum"
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 15:29 (eight years ago)
― That's when I fired off my 2 Tweets to Dr. Phil (crüt), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 15:32 (eight years ago)
who's not an asshole these days I wonder.
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 15:39 (eight years ago)
you either live long enough to be the villain or you're bruno mars
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 15:42 (eight years ago)
* for me, I suspect for much of his fanbase the selling point is that here's a guy who proudly admits he's an asshole through which they can vicariously be an asshole.
I think this was a big part of his initial appeal. Now I think the appeal is mostly that his last LP had some legit jams on it, though, right?
― Evan R, Tuesday, 29 November 2016 17:35 (eight years ago)
maybe true for "Can't Feel My Face" where you could swap with any Max Martin track but it's the only explanation I can think of for "The Hills"
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 17:38 (eight years ago)
(speaking of, "False Alarm" was a standout until I realized its gimmick was the exact gimmick in that single)
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 17:40 (eight years ago)
it works really well for me when the chorus sounds stolen from a lost bad rabbits song
ok I'm listening to the Bad Rabbits album now and WHAT IS THIS
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 17:55 (eight years ago)
lol that's a derail, maybe i'll start a thread about it even though i imagine most people will think it is Bad
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 18:09 (eight years ago)
halfway through the opening track I was surprised you hadn't already!
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 18:10 (eight years ago)
Ridiculous Tears For Fears sample on 'Secrets'.
'Rockin' could've easily been on that second Disclosure album.
― nashwan, Tuesday, 29 November 2016 18:47 (eight years ago)
star boyreminderrockinsecretstrue colorslove to laylonely nightordinary lifenothing without youdie for youi feel it coming
this would be a good album
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 29 November 2016 18:50 (eight years ago)
the inherent absurdity of the weeknd is p much summed up by him thinking "i'm a muhfuckin' starboy" is a macho thing to say (also, yknow, all his other problems everyone has noted for the past 6 years)
song ain't bad tho, havent tried the album
― i've watched a lot of cats do weird and interesting things (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 29 November 2016 18:51 (eight years ago)
Dud
― Ross, Tuesday, 29 November 2016 22:18 (eight years ago)
I don't like what he does in general (save for some productions/collabs with other artists which are ok) and this album seems pretty bad/boring (and much too long !) after the first few times.but I have to admit I REALLY like "I Feel It Coming". My favourite thing he's ever been involved with by very far !
― AlXTC from Paris, Monday, 5 December 2016 14:45 (eight years ago)
Secrets is his best track since the first mixtape IMO, or at least the first of his 'Weeknd Goes Pop' tracks that i've really liked.
― piscesx, Monday, 5 December 2016 15:32 (eight years ago)
xp man, I really don't give a hoot about the Weeknd and really didn't like 'Starboy' but 'I Feel It Coming' is so lovely. Yeah, it's Michael Jackson sings 'Get Lucky' but that's not a problem really.
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Thursday, 2 March 2017 10:19 (eight years ago)
I love how committed Daft Punk have been to getting songs that sound like Imagination onto top 40 radio
― example (crüt), Thursday, 2 March 2017 13:45 (eight years ago)
a two month crosspost
― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Thursday, 2 March 2017 17:24 (eight years ago)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/07/upshot/music-fandom-maps.html
anything stand out to anyone about this map
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 01:07 (seven years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni41PhM0df4
― J0rdan S., Monday, 9 March 2020 20:26 (five years ago)
sick
that Sir Duke melody
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 10 March 2020 09:28 (five years ago)
thats the most trad R&B thing hes done ha
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 10 March 2020 09:29 (five years ago)
yeah i really like that
i don't know if ilm is ready to acknowledge how good "blinding lights" is
― dyl, Friday, 13 March 2020 06:17 (five years ago)
Sounds good, but gonna be a cranky old man about the blood & bandage look/marketing brand thing. Seems dumb to me
― curmudgeon, Friday, 13 March 2020 18:27 (five years ago)
there's some really good stuff on the new album and the production is impeccable
― ufo, Saturday, 21 March 2020 04:19 (five years ago)
all the 80s pastiche with perfect sound design ends up sounding very much like the last two 1975 albums lol
― ufo, Saturday, 21 March 2020 04:36 (five years ago)
only oneohtrix point never to make me listen to the weeknd. just heard the three songs they've made together and although it's visible 0pn's hand, I just can't stand Abel's voice and his performing approach, I'm sorry.
― Nourry, Saturday, 21 March 2020 10:56 (five years ago)
my favourites on here so far are "too late", "hardest to love" and "in your eyes"
― ufo, Saturday, 21 March 2020 13:32 (five years ago)
gave it a listen. it's not a great album.
as a generally-cohesive showcase of an ~aesthetic~ it (mostly) works. the production is thoughtful + intricate throughout, even deeply compelling in particular moments. but despite him being a competent/occasionally impressive singer, his delivery seldom compels me to pay any note to the songs' lyrical content -- and when it does register, it's usually because it's so bad that it's impossible not to notice. i don't feel anything he's supposedly feeling.
"heartless," the very safe single which deliberately revisits his own very well-trodden territory, had started to grow on me slightly as a radio hit, but here it feels entirely out of place and nearly kills the mood set by the preceding tracks. definitely a dud.
there are good songs, including his current pop smash, which might be the best. overall the album's an interesting rendition of pop's resurgent nostalgia for a decades-old vision of a soon-approaching future*. but it seldom gives anything beyond that.
(* cf dua lipa's upcoming + appropriately titled album, which i have not heard yet but suspect could well be better than this)
― dyl, Monday, 23 March 2020 17:36 (five years ago)
a video has been put out for what i guess is the next single "in your eyes" -- starts with an unsurprising but nonetheless contemptible fixation on a woman's fear as she's stalked and threatened by abel's character, then i guess tries to subvert it by allowing her to decapitate him in self-defense. groundbreaking.
― dyl, Monday, 23 March 2020 17:48 (five years ago)
I, personally, am very fascinated by how repellent people find The Weeknd and would love to see a deeper dive into how race informs his goth horror aesthetic and the reactions to it.
― DJP, Monday, 23 March 2020 17:53 (five years ago)
Haven't seen the video, so can't comment, but I would also like to read such an examination.
The album sounds fantastic, but his vocals (which I have generally liked) are kinda weak and inexpressive on a lot of the songs. The songs themselves are maybe too uniform, but the highlights--"Blinding Lights," "Save Your Tears"--are strong.
― Maria Edgelord (cryptosicko), Monday, 23 March 2020 20:02 (five years ago)
Does he choose who remixes his material? Chromatics, OPN, The Blaze as remixers is a great combo. Not sure how much their music aligns with The Weeknd fans, and still haven’t heard the remixes but it definitely piques my interest.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 23 March 2020 21:20 (five years ago)
Ok, The Chromatics remix is cool. It’s curious to hear the contrast of the underground sensibility of Chromatics vs The Weekend’s mainstream approach. I don’t think it works 100%, but there’s potential in there. An original feature and production credits a la Daft Punk would have been more interesting than a remix.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 05:58 (five years ago)
I think his singing is across-the-board weaker on this but the songs themselves are across-the-board better
― DJP, Wednesday, 25 March 2020 17:44 (five years ago)
There’s a “The” Blaze now?
― brimstead, Wednesday, 25 March 2020 21:06 (five years ago)
They're really good and have dope music videos.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 25 March 2020 21:30 (five years ago)
don't recall if i've heard much else but "virile" is a classic for me
― dyl, Thursday, 26 March 2020 07:21 (five years ago)
The half time show was actually really good.
― Bee OK, Monday, 8 February 2021 01:45 (four years ago)
The mixing was off in the first 3/4 songs - which is business as usual in the halftime show - his vocals were very low, but it sounded good after the song with violins.
The set production was outstanding. Even if you don't care about the halftime show's music, it's always impressive to see these massive logistics and production in action and this might be the most impressive set production so far.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 8 February 2021 02:50 (four years ago)
Would have loved to see Daft Punk in there, but I kinda liked that there were no guest artists.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 8 February 2021 02:52 (four years ago)
i thought that was a great halftime show, even with the vocals being mixed too low at first. I have to say I completely forgot about the Weeknd's back catalog, this thread is a trip, you'd never think that guy would wind up doing the superbowl halftime show.
― akm, Monday, 8 February 2021 03:05 (four years ago)
Not only did he did he do the halftime show, he also walked more yards than KC.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 8 February 2021 03:06 (four years ago)
oh fuck I ruined my joke by writing that all wrong.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 8 February 2021 03:07 (four years ago)
not only did he do the halftime show, he also walked more yards than KC
there...
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 8 February 2021 03:08 (four years ago)
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, February 7, 2021 9:50 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
otm, they did an amazing job this year
― call all destroyer, Monday, 8 February 2021 03:08 (four years ago)
to go from the start of this thread (almost exactly 10 yrs ago) to halftime sb performer is wild props to abel
― johnny crunch, Monday, 8 February 2021 03:17 (four years ago)
my 3 and 5 year olds have been obsessed with the weeknd for the last month or two and this halftime show was very magical for them. They only listen to frozen 2 soundtrack, thunderstruck, and the weeknd 'top tracks' playlist.
― sell her Dior (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 8 February 2021 03:21 (four years ago)
This guys persona has always been kind of odious so I have little warmth for him despite liking his voice and several songs. The halftime set was pretty good, more for the staging, design and choreography than anything he was doing as a performer though. Props to him for putting his own money into it, which surprised me. Cant imagine everyone doing that.
― candyman, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 09:37 (four years ago)
Isn't that what everyone does for the Super Bowl? Or is it usually paid for by the sponsors? The musical acts don't get paid as far as I know, and that production money must come from somewhere.
― change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 February 2021 15:10 (four years ago)
no idea, i dont remember seeing much about superbowl performances in the UK until the 00s or so tbh...
― candyman, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 15:29 (four years ago)
my 3 and 5 year olds have been obsessed with the weeknd for the last month or two and this halftime show was very magical for them. They only listen to frozen 2 soundtrack, thunderstruck, and the weeknd 'top tracks' playlist.― sell her Dior (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, February 7, 2021 10:21 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink
― sell her Dior (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, February 7, 2021 10:21 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink
read this as "tindersticks" at first and was like wow.
― treeship., Tuesday, 9 February 2021 15:31 (four years ago)
Oh, I guess the football people cover the production costs usually, but there's no fee for the artists beyond that: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a35405738/super-bowl-halftime-performers-money/
― change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 February 2021 16:00 (four years ago)
weird.
― candyman, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 16:07 (four years ago)
I liked it, cad otm here and in Super Bowl thread
― brimstead, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 22:07 (four years ago)
i didn't love the performance... very weird to see a super bowl halftime show where the singer is jammed off to one side on a static stage like he's headlining a festival. i found it pretty boring for that reason... once he finally got onto the field it was fine, nothing that special. seemed like he tried to do something cool as opposed to something that was fun. i've seen better from him on TV tbh
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 9 February 2021 22:25 (four years ago)
didn’t like it either tbh, good voice ruined by a pretty bad sound mix, he can’t dance and has no stage presence or charisma to speak off, so not a good idea to do a solo show like this.
― Long Tall Arsetee & the Shaker Intros (breastcrawl), Tuesday, 9 February 2021 22:35 (four years ago)
speak of*
I didn’t really know his music before, I recognized the big hit which I really liked and has been stuck in my head all day. So mission accomplished over here I guess
― brimstead, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 23:28 (four years ago)
I'm ten years late on house of baloons. I love this album. wtf was I listening to in 2011? I don't know.
― akm, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 03:32 (four years ago)
Was def into the mixtapes at the time. It’s some weird type of nostalgic hearing them now though
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Sunday, 21 March 2021 16:15 (four years ago)
Rereading the posts from the start of this thread 10 years ago, it’s funny to see how so many people thought the weeknd was a group at first. Who would’ve thought he’d be headlining the Super Bowl half time show 10 years later!
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Sunday, 21 March 2021 20:27 (four years ago)
new one is just a repeat of the last except a bit worse. same well-crafted retro production but the songs aren't too convincing overall & it doesn't have the same highlights either.
― ufo, Friday, 7 January 2022 05:54 (three years ago)
i hope Robert Beatty made a bunch of dough for this album cover
― alpine static, Friday, 7 January 2022 06:09 (three years ago)
oh wait, is it the old man pic? i thought it was this: https://www.target.com/p/the-weeknd-dawn-fm-target-exclusive-cd/-/A-85668841
maybe it's both. idk...
old man pic is the main cover, that's a target exclusive cover
lol at him getting mike love's son & bruce johnston to do some totally inconsequential beach boys oohs on a track that does not resemble the beach boys at all
― ufo, Friday, 7 January 2022 08:54 (three years ago)
somehow all of this new weeknd stuff has made me get back to this 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8yZmgKIHU
― krewki, Friday, 7 January 2022 11:12 (three years ago)
the best stuff on after hours were where he was least interested in the 80s thing and instead moved towards 90s garage rhythms so of course there's none of that here
― ufo, Friday, 7 January 2022 11:41 (three years ago)
I'm not hearing what's supposed to sound "80s" about this album.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 7 January 2022 16:11 (three years ago)
i like that he's pushing super hard in this direction & leaving the dirtbag R&B thing behind, i just wish the production and songwriting were better. i like plenty of max martin stuff but purposefully placing him in the same context as quincy jones doesn't really do max many favors as a producer, honestly. you can't really hear any instruments breathe on this, it's all very monolithic and smushed together. sign of the times, of course, but i want to love a project like this and it leaves me a bit cold. it feels telling to me that "i feel it coming" is still his best disco-y type song & it came from daft punk in the wake of them meticulously recreating 70s studio musicianship. these weeknd records really need some of that touch. in general i still think starboy has his best songs, tho after hours is prob better front to back as an album. gonna keep trying w/ this one tho
― J0rdan S., Friday, 7 January 2022 20:43 (three years ago)
OPN has more production credit on this than Martin, though both are involved on nearly every track. Haven't heard it yet, but if it's an album's worth of No Nightmares that's not a bad thing at all.
Shame about the cover though
― octobeard, Sunday, 9 January 2022 01:02 (three years ago)
I should say production and writing credit. Lopatin is listed as a writer for all but two tracks
― octobeard, Sunday, 9 January 2022 01:03 (three years ago)
I've listened to it twice and I don't remember any of the songs yet.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 9 January 2022 01:08 (three years ago)
‘how do i make you love me’ is so sick
― flopson, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 05:12 (three years ago)
― flopson,
Agreed. The rest of the album is the usual meh.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 10:42 (three years ago)
Gasoline through Sacrifice is a really solid run imo. The rest hasn’t really stuck with me so far. Admittedly I didn’t spend time with the last album so I don’t have the comparison point.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 13:01 (three years ago)
yeah i like most of the album quite a lot, especially the “bangers”. one of my most listened to mixes last year was lopatin’s bbc essential mix which was all italo electro minimal synth and techno. at the time i thought it was a bit of a curveball for him but it makes sense that he was working on this album at the time
― flopson, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 16:09 (three years ago)
it’s a ymmv but i like this sound more than ‘get lucky’ era daft punk
― flopson, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 16:10 (three years ago)
I kinda wish he just made a wall-to-wall bangers album in the style of those songs, like a dance mix. I don't understand the point of throwing in that Quincy bit at all and it the album loses so much steam from there.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 17:07 (three years ago)
At its best ("Don't Break My Heart," a couple others) he suggests a squishier late '80s freestyle sound.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 17:15 (three years ago)
It's been underwhelming to me too - I was expecting something great based on some raves elsewhere. I tried revisiting some cuts via YouTube and it felt like the videos had more to offer than the music playing underneath.
― birdistheword, Saturday, 15 January 2022 20:19 (three years ago)
Production is amazing in several of these, but I agree that it feels like it’s missing something. It gets to a point where it feels tiresome to listen to pastiche after pastiche. If the intent was to make this album sound like purgatory it succeeds at it.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 15 January 2022 21:00 (three years ago)
Particularly like “gasoline” in spite of the awkward monster mash vocals in the verse.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 15 January 2022 21:04 (three years ago)
Yeah Gasoline is a standout for me.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 15 January 2022 23:44 (three years ago)
i'm liking this the more i listen to it. enjoying how it starts hard and clubby and unfurls into lush golden hour type tracks the more it plays out. something about it is still leaving me cold tho, can't quite put my finger on it. it's his most thematically concise album (at least of recent vintage) but i don't think it has the highs of his last few records. something like "rockin" off starboy is still >>>> to me. it's nice to play but i'm having trouble remembering individual tracks esp separating the songwriting from the production. "gasoline" is pretty awesome tho
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 20 January 2022 19:44 (three years ago)
He's sooooo addicted to "Baby Be Mine" as influence and sonic signifier.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 January 2022 19:45 (three years ago)
i also really wish the interludes didn't exist. some albums i don't mind them, this one it makes me harder to remember how the album flows
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 20 January 2022 19:48 (three years ago)
the Quincy Jones grosses me out! Is he suggesting he's as crazy as Q's mama? A master like Q?
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 January 2022 20:12 (three years ago)
For whatever reason, the interludes don't feel all that intrusive to me. It helps that two of them are confined to the intro and outro, but even the others mostly feel like (appropriately) moody pauses in what is an otherwise sonically uniform record.
― Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Thursday, 20 January 2022 20:13 (three years ago)
i liked this album (listened on a night drive, which seems ideal), not sure which song is my favorite but i know that the one with tyler is my least favorite
― roflrofl fight (voodoo chili), Thursday, 20 January 2022 20:23 (three years ago)
well, Tyler's declarative sentences blow away Tesfaye's repulsive fluttered moues.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 January 2022 20:25 (three years ago)
yeah i mean the main reason i dislike that one in particular is that abel goes back to that played-out single-note melodic style i got sick of around the time of “low life”
― roflrofl fight (voodoo chili), Thursday, 20 January 2022 20:38 (three years ago)
album is alright, seems kind of slight which the last one did as well. it's not very memorable but listening to it doesn't make me angry either.
― akm, Thursday, 20 January 2022 21:24 (three years ago)
lol why did they get him to do a song for avatar 2 that's such a weird combo
― ufo, Thursday, 8 December 2022 06:23 (two years ago)
not finished listening to this long ass album yet, but there's definitely a few jams here, especially "Open Hearts"
― Vinnie, Sunday, 2 February 2025 01:24 (three months ago)
The length really works against this album. He's said this is his last release as the Weeknd and I'm guessing he crammed everything he had left as a result. Besides "Open Hearts" there's a really nice run from "I Can't Wait to Get There" to "Take Me Back to LA" and a few other solid tracks scattered throughout. The track with Lana is boring until she comes in in the final minute. Would have been so much better as like a 40-minute album, it's probably weaker than Dawn FM
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 5 February 2025 13:14 (three months ago)