80s Metallica vs 80s Megadeth FITE

oh come on

lol I didn't mean to usher in a Dave Mustaine revival.

I mean musically it isn't even remotely close, particularly since we're talking about the 80s here

80s Metallica vs. 90s Megadeth morelike

Megadeth

Seriously, each Megadeth album from Peace Sells... has a couple of good-to-great songs on it, but to put them up against Kill 'Em All through ...And Justice For All is a pathetic joke, and even Dave Mustaine would tell you so.

and then he would probably cry about it a little

Still going with the 'Deth here. I much prefer their '80s stuff to Metallica.

It's a shame Rust In Peace counts as 90s rather than 80s because
its probably better than any Metallica apart from Master Of Puppets

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/juicyfrt/steve_urkel.jpg

Did I do this?

Metallica
Kill 'Em All (1983)
Ride the Lightning (1984)
Master of Puppets (1986)
...And Justice for All (1988)

Megadeth
Killing Is My Business... and Business Is Good! (1985)
Peace Sells... but Who's Buying? (1986)
So Far, So Good... So What! (1988)

Gotta go with Metallica because the first three are just unfuckwithable.

lol! Unfuckwithable... what a great word!!!

I'd have to agree.. Dave is still playing catch up at this point, but not to say that those MegaDave records are not great, cuz they are.
I've noticed that over the years, that the manic picking style that Metallica had was a direct result of Dave's playing. That dude has a very quick rhythm technique, and I feel it helped the Metallica guys to be better players. But for importants, song writing, and innovation, although some of this is Dave leftover, Metallica was just crushing.. They were a Metal band that everyone looked foward to being wow-ed by with each new record. I even read a Kerry King interview where he was going on about how he looked sooo foward to a new record by them. But I dont't think they would of been at that level without some of the things they learned from Dave, nor would they be the biggest band in the world... it would be Green Day instead-could we live with that? I think not..

were you in the bay area then sean? or too young for the beginning of these bands?

"I even read a Kerry King interview where he was going on about how he looked sooo foward to a new record by them"

Please tell me this is an old interview, or i will lose all respect for King.

you havent already?

No, i'm still a pretty big Slayer fan, especially after seeing them live last fall, where they crushed. Same bill as Megadeth, incidentally, who also killed.

you can still like slayer and think kerry king is a dick though

he never came across that way to me, to tell you the truth. He certainly comes across as a pretty nerdy guy, appearances notwithstanding.

this was when the last Metallica record came out, they were asking him him if he was looking foward to the new Metallica record, of coarse he said no.. But he spoke of how back in the day, he looked forward to what they were gonna do cuz they were so innovated. He said that he lost all of that with the Black album, just like all of us did..He also went on about Kirt Hamster, and how he thought it retarded of them "to have one of the best guitarist in the world, and have no solos"-speaking about St. Anger

Metallica no contest, even though I love the first two Megadeth albums to death, So Far So Good So What doesn't compare with any of the first three Metallica albums really.

that said, right now, Megadeth easy. Megadeth's last album was one of the most incredible things they've done in years.

I think the high points of the first two Megadeth albums at least equal any of Metallica's high points, but Metallica does have more good records than Megadeth. on the other hand, as recently as '99-ish, Megadeth still had a good song in 'em (see below), whereas Metallica was done by '97. Tough call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A8czbBBYtU

should be noted also that 80s Megadeth was a much better live act than Alcoholica

Why pick when you can have both:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TQOVBbaWW8

(xp) Actually the early Megadeth shows were quite inconsistant. You never knew whether you'd get a good show or a bad one.

yea but Lars sped up all the damn songs too much live until about 1988 and it took away some of their bite....
also Disintegrators is a great song but their entire Endgame album (2009) destroys it. seriously....

should be noted also that 80s Megadeth was a much better live act than Alcoholica

^agreed, with this kind of music you should have a pretty good drummer. Megadeth's had some great drummers (great overall musicianship to be honest) When you have one that's almost incomptent, like Metallica does, you will suffer live.

I don't know what you guys are talking about re: Metallica vs. Megadeth live in the early days. Mustaine was kicked out of Metallica for being a drunk, alcoholic, and the first line-up of Megadeth was frought with the same problems with Dave and other members of the band.

That isn't to say Alcoholica didn't get their drink on, but they made a point of mentioning that all debauchery went on after the show and seemed to live up to that self-imposed rule.

The reputation that both bands had at the time was that Metallica always "brought it" live whereas Megadeth was an iffy proposition depending on how fucked up the members were.

And these comments were made/agreed upon by a peer group that, as late teenagers at the time, were a lot less likely to be overly critical about things. Yet, Megadeth as inconsistant live band permeated our discussions.

i think this poll is missing the "Anthrax" button somehow

who the hell would vote for them! If slayer was in the poll they would walk it
but this poll was battle of mustaine

Yet, Megadeth as inconsistant live band permeated our discussions.

^not any discussion I was in.

How old are you?

40

you kept that quiet

Well, history shows that Mustaine was kicked out for his alcohol and drug use, and the entire classic first line-up of Megadeth (Mustaine, Dave Ellefson, Gar Samuelson and Chris Poland) was frought with drug and alcohol problems on and off the road. Whereas Metallica was making it a point to not "party" before going onstage.

Sure, Megadeth did put on good shows then. They also put on bad ones when they were fucked up and the shows suffered. I think if you ask the band members themselves they would agree with this.

Thought this was common knowledge among metalhead our age...

Metallica was done by '97

they were done way earlier than this imho

A+ screen name, Bill Magill

I thought Metallica jumped the shark with Justice. It was the first album they put out that I listened to that didn't immediately jump at me plus I hated the production. There were some good songs on it but overall it was (and still is) a tedious, neverending story lacking not only bass, but soul.

^^^

RIP Cliff

A+ screen name, Bill Magill

― hapshash jar tempo (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, March 2, 2011 2:54 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark

Thanks man.

you kept that quiet

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, March 2, 2011 2:03 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

What, I come across as younger? I'll take that as a compliment, Herm.

i am 100% behind the idea that metallica got blah when justice came out. just a slog of an album

no you always had old fart taste in metal, just didn't realise quite how old fart you well though!

xp

in fairness you started a poll about 2 bands that peaked in like 87

I love AJFA... Yeah the production is not great, but 'Blackened' and 'Dyers Eve'... killing!

Yeah, I don't get (and have never gotten) the AJFA non-love...bought that shit on double vinyl the day it came out, still play it more than any other Metallica album (though when Death Magnetic came out I played that shit for like two weeks straight).

it's okay, there's some good stuff on it (Blackened, etc.) but it's the beginning of the end

when Death Magnetic came out I played that shit for like two weeks straight

this was because you were holding a prisoner in a small concrete room and needed to get information from him tho rite

I loved Death Magnetic when it came out, and I stand by what I wrote at the time.

hahahaha xp

There's already one or more "Justice" threads, but wasn't "Justice" the first Metallica album with songs the group literally could not play live? Too hard to pull off again, but also cobbled together in the studio?

this is a tangent, and I hate to seem more contentious than I actually am, but when you wrote: "I think, as is so often the case, it was leaked by someone on the inside" -- do you actually know of any cases where this is true? I ask because people say this all the time, but I've worked in music a long time & pretty much all the people I know are bands & people at labels etc. and I do not know of a single instance in which this has been the case. Knowing that when the physical promos go out, it's game over & the record will leak, sure, but "people on the inside leaking the record" I do not know of one instance.

this is a tangent, and I hate to seem more contentious than I actually am, but when you wrote: "I think, as is so often the case, it was leaked by someone on the inside" -- do you actually know of any cases where this is true? I ask because people say this all the time, but I've worked in music a long time & pretty much all the people I know are bands & people at labels etc. and I do not know of a single instance in which this has been the case. Knowing that when the physical promos go out, it's game over & the record will leak, sure, but "people on the inside leaking the record" I do not know of one instance

No one would admit to leaking something...

what I'm saying is I think when people say "people inside the industy had to be the ones who leaked" this or that record, they're just guessing, they don't actually have any idea -- it fits a narrative people enjoy spreading but I really don't think it's actually true

like, if things were coming from any earlier on the supply chain than the people to whom the promos get sent, you'd expect much more routine leaking of alternate takes, rough mixes, different mixes, songs that didn't make the album. because a pretty significant number of people at any given label have access to these things, often as long as a year ahead of an album's release. but you don't get any of that very often; sometimes you do, but it's the exception. what you usually get is exactly the exact album that ends up on the shelves, and it's probably coming from somebody that was given a copy by either somebody at the label, or by the artist who made the album.

and how is that not a leak? I don't get the distinction yr making

he is disputing the "on the inside" part

i think aerosmith you are largely correct, however, also perhaps the industry waters that you nagivate and the ones navigated by metallica are two very different swimming pools

havent cd factory workers and the like been sued for doing that kinda thing?

also doesn't everyone actively hate Metallica? or am I projecting again?

Shakey, it's that there's this narrative people sorta bat that usually boils down to "most leaks come from within the industry." I've been working (marginally, obviously, but constantly) in the industry since the dawn of filesharing, and I would be surprised if the instances of an album leaking had come from band, label or somewhere else along the production chain more than half a dozen times. talk to studio owners, producers, people in production: they know they'll be instantly out of work if stuff gets away on their end, and there wouldn't be any question where the chain had broken if it happened, because the process of production is predictable and constant. for at least five years, everybody I know has been able to accurately predict the day their album will leak: it's the day that the unwatermarked promos go out. there aren't stickin'-it-to-the-man-from-the-inside people bravely leaking records. just a pretty predictable process.

xp: that is v. true! still, if it weren't someplace after the promos had been printed & mailed, I'd expect...wait for it...LOADs more alt. takes, etc., to be out there floating around

also yeah everybody hates Metallica. I'll still rep for them through ...And Justice tho

everybody I know has been able to accurately predict the day their album will leak: it's the day that the unwatermarked promos go out.

right I agree, this is pretty self-evident. But when you said this:

it's probably coming from somebody that was given a copy by either somebody at the label, or by the artist who made the album

it made it sound like you were referring to something other than unwatermarked promos.

oh no I just meant unwatermarked promos

cuz yeah if anything got out before the promos went out it tends to be a pretty small circle of people who would be able to leak it - the engineers, studio staff, the mastering dude, the band, the label guys involved - it wouldn't be hard to target who was responsible and then that dude would be out of a job.

the whole thing of leaking promos by music journalists blows my mind, like honestly...if i did that with a game it would be not only fired but very likely jail time or huge fines

music journalists are usually getting paid so little that losing their job isn't much of a threat, and the music industry suing people hasn't exactly worked out for them

not sure any entertainment journalism is that much different in terms of pay, but the game industry gets pretty gangster and i would be scared shitless on the real (and also i think journalist leaking things sent to them as a fucking courtesy is pretty horrible)

in music it's just considered part of the cycle now. you plan for it. anybody who gets mad when their album leaks before release is really locked into an antiquated model at this point; the leak is part of the promotional cycle, but it's part with a small element of chance, which kinda makes it cool - after the unwatermarked promos go out, you get to wonder when the album will hit the wires, and whether it'll pick up steam, etc

^^^otm

it's basically just part of the promo schedule now

on the alt. takes thing - this happens constantly with rap/r&b. it's very much part of the promo cycle and these tracks even get radio play on, like, hot 97 months before an album gets an official release.

I hate metallica more than just about any band ever (like the dude said, "bunch of assholes") but I still have to pick em in this fight.

but I also still spin rust in peace on the reg and I'd pick that over any of the classic era metallica lps.

Metallica Report Card

Kill Em All ... A
Ride the Lightning ... A+
Master of Puppets ... A+
...And Justice for All ... B+
black album ... C
Load ... F
Reload ... F
St. Anger ... F
Death Magnetic ... D-

wanted to defend Load against that very harsh grade and then went to look at the tracklisting....Christ what a piece of shit

lol

metallica report card otm

I'm stoned and I don't care so I'll just hang my ass on the line and say that I rate Death Magnetic a very solid B, or B+ if I'm in a good mood. And that my favourite Megadeth was never higher than B- at the most.

The reason I gave DM such a poor grade was b/c, despite the reverent homage to their former selves, what we're left with is a vastly inferior facsimile of much better material. Thus, the record is pointless.

As I said in the original thread, I've just convinced myself that Death Magnetic was recorded in late 1989 and released in Spring 1990. Just don't show me a state quarter or I'll snap out of my dream like Christopher Reeve in Somewhere in Time.

I thought Metallica jumped the shark with Justice. It was the first album they put out that I listened to that didn't immediately jump at me plus I hated the production. There were some good songs on it but overall it was (and still is) a tedious, neverending story lacking not only bass, but soul.

― NYCNative, Wednesday, March 2, 2011 2:55 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

I've been listening to the first Flotsam & Jetsam record lately & if they'd let Jason just do his thing on Justice, it could have been SO MUCH BETTER. The bass sound on the F&J is so clean & crisp & fast. It would have been perfect for the style of AJFA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmmfSV70zQI

This is the original studio recording of Blackened with audible bass. But here's the catch. This isn't me playing bass and dubbing it. This is Jason Newsted's actual bass track re-dubbed at a MUCH higher level.

How did I manage to do this? Rock Band. Two of the tracks from ...And Justice For All have been released as downloadable content for the band simulation game, Rock Band. I managed to [mostly] isolate the bass from those songs, and dubbed it over untouched album versions of the songs. The end result is finally, after nearly 20 years, being able to hear some of AJFA complete with Jason's bass CLEARLY audible in the mix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvwod7BBK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWgEeTqjXMI

This is maybe the single stupidest thing metalheads get worked up about. Why is it so hard to understand that ...And Justice For All sounds the way it does because that's how Metallica wants it to sound? You might as well dub in trombone and zither as pump up the bass. Just get over it, people. They wanted to make a thin, dry, harsh-sounding album and they fucking made one. And it sounds perfect; exactly how those songs should sound.

why would metallica deliberately want their album to sound like shit?

it was the album lars & james wanted to make b/c they are dicks.

You could ask the same question of eight million black metal bands. Why do Darkthrone's albums sound terrible? Because they wanted them to. But nobody goes around remixing Darkthrone.

wasn't the reason they brought in bob rock because they hated the production of ajfa?

why would metallica deliberately want their album to sound like shit?

because they are deaf. what they hear is different from what you hear. to the point where what you hear is qualitatively utterly distinct from what they hear; they can't hear things as you do. here's a choice quote from Jason Newstead in their HoF:

METALLICA has always recorded in a very different manner than any type of popular rock or country music, where the drums and the bass are recorded first and you put the melodies and the guitars and all that stuff on afterwards. For the entire existence of METALLICA — and the only band Lars has ever been in is METALLICA — he has had only the rhythm guitar and the vocal coming out of his monitor at 130 decibels behind his head. There's no bass in his monitor at all, so it's not a situation where the drummer and the bass player go together on groove, like in any band I've ever listened to. So that was real different for me to get used to and for any bass player to deal with. And Robert [Trujillo] probably has to deal with it to this day. There's just no bass coming out of the drummer's monitor. So you have to think of that as part of the equation.

hahahaha waht

They wanted to make a thin, dry, harsh-sounding album and they fucking made one.

^but the point is that it sucks, and would sound better had they used a bassist. which would have been easy to do, because they had one in the band.

there's some thought, too, about how they treat bass in the mix after Cliff dies, which I don't think is too pop-psych to consider.

I don't deny that having a tinny record is what Hetfield & Ulrich wanted. It still sounds like shit and the boosted bass above proves that they could have had a better album if they had put their sorrow for Cliff and sub-frat hazing of NewKid aside.

you think they should remaster it and reissue it so the album gets a better rep (and more cash for metallica)?

I personally couldnt give a flying fuck. I go by the old saying, if you cant handle Slayer, listen to Metallica. It's a little JV for me.

"Fade To Black", "Welcome Home (Sanatorium)" and "One" are enough to secure my vote for Metallica here.

I personally the ajfa mix was less about going for a raw, dry darkthrone aesthetic and more about hazing the new guy. but that's mostly because I think they're a bunch of dicks.

And this anger (which isn't white-hot or anything) gets directed toward Metallica because they liked the sound of Justice that way. Unlike Husker Du, who dropped their producer after New Day Rising and would probably offer a remixed version of it today were there not so much red tape tied around the masters.

Now THAT I would give a shit about.

I do like "One", but mostly because of the Johnny Got His Gun connection

I used to have a mix tape that included a version of "One" taped off from TV. Weird driving down the road hearing "What is Democracy?" "It has something to do with young men killing themselves." "When it comes my turn, will you want me to go?" "For Democracy, any man would give his only begotten son."

(I really only intended to mention the "What is Democracy?" part, but I got on a roll.)

I saw Metallica at Madison Square Garden two Octobers ago: meh
I saw Megadeth at Brendan Byrne Arena last September: mindblowing

so 2010's FITE goes to Megadeth.

but this poll is for 80s!

I find it hilarious that a drummer records with no bass in the mix (when a bass player is in the band of course). I mean, whatever works, but still, with Jason on this one. Lars is a nut.

For the entire existence of METALLICA — and the only band Lars has ever been in is METALLICA — he has had only the rhythm guitar and the vocal coming out of his monitor at 130 decibels behind his head. There's no bass in his monitor at all

it's kinda sad that this doesn't even make the top 10 most ridiculous things I have heard about how Metallica functions as a band

This may not be as unusual as you think. The drummer for a band I interviewed very recently (not Metallica) told me they don't use monitors onstage, they use in-ears, and he has almost zero bass in his in-ear; he listens to kick, snare, and rhythm guitar, and says having the bass in there would distort things too much. I would be really surprised if many non-bassists had a hefty bass presence in their monitors or in-ear setups. In fact, recalling another interview I did a while ago, I'm pretty sure Dave Lombardo doesn't listen to Tom Araya's bass, either.

nobody listens to tom araya's bass

as Newstead points out early in the quote, most bands think of bass-and-drums as a complementary relationship. the drummer hears the bassist, and the bassist hears the drummer, hence "rhythm section"

Fair enough, when the guitars are so crucial to the rhythm, i.e., in Metallica and Slayer, I guess the drummer would be justified somewhat in ignoring the bass, it just seems wrong. I mean, ignoring any part of a band, when you are in the band, seems wrong to me, but of course bands are totally fucked in so many ways all the time, again I say: whatever works.

But also what aero said.

the only justifiable reason for not having bass in the drummer's monitor is if the bass is already so unbelievably loud it isn't necessary. but that's not the case most of the time

whatever works.

clearly NOT working in Metallica's case lol

Hah, right! They made a whole movie about it, guess not indeed!

In fact, recalling another interview I did a while ago, I'm pretty sure Dave Lombardo doesn't listen to Tom Araya's bass, either.

^ the problem is that Lombardo is one of the greatest rock drummers of all time (possibly the greatest) and Lars Ulrich is a ham handed wannabe who needs all the help he can get. Monitors may help him.

nobody listens to tom araya's bass

― (⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Thursday, March 3, 2011 10:59 AM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thatsbassist.gif

the problem is that Lombardo is one of the greatest rock drummers of all time (possibly the greatest)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOL

surprised at Magill rating anybody over Bill Ward

M@tt obv doesnt rate lombardo much

i think he's a great metal drummer -- the "possibly the greatest" thing is ridiculous though

he's no Buddy Rich amirite

i think he specifically said "rock" but man there are so many i'd put above lombardo in the big picture

Who, Mo Tucker? lolololol

in terms of how many albums they've each made that I love to listen to Mo and Lombardo are about even lol

idk dudes lombardo is pretty fucking amazing

he is, but best ever? no way

im never willing to go out on the "best x evar" limb because its almost never right, but seeing him do that mike patton thing live a few years ago the dude was O_O level good.

xpost

I specifically said rock, because I knew I would get slammed with the snobbish ILM reaction that we all know and love. Just one man's opinion, folks. I think Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Bernard Purdie are great drummers too....

in terms of how many albums they've each made that I love to listen to Mo and Lombardo are about even lol

― ridiculous, uncalled for slap (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude, you never fail to amaze!!! Just dont go all jon/via/chi on my ass because I totally disagree with you.

lol no worries bro

dude from Absu is so much better than Lombardo it's hilarious, so's George Kollias, so's Pete Sandoval, Lombardo is a fantastic drummer but the only way he's the best drummer in metal is if the only metal bands you know are Slayer & Metallica

tbf thats most slayer fans

i might be willing to go to bat for Mick Harris after seeing painkiller live

wait what were we talking about again

bill magill

People always bag on Justice for sounding crappy (and rightly so), but they always leave out a pretty key fact -- Metallica albums have ALWAYS sounded crappy. Black Album, Load, and Reload are the only ones that actually sound good, and we know what people think of those.

Meanwhile, as to Metallica in 2011, I think what we're hearing is a band that has lost interest in playing metal but feels obligated to defend the faith. I mean, look at the track listing of the new songs they chose for Garage Inc. Bob Seger is a pretty far cry from Diamondhead. I actually think that "I Disappear" is the most honest song they've done in the last decade or so. St. anger and death magnetic sound like a band that isn't listening to the artistic instincts, instead doing what they think people want from them -- but since it's not what they want from themselves, their compasses are skewed.

also they are kind of terrible

lol @ me, I am getting off this thread

sorry

dude from Absu is so much better than Lombardo it's hilarious

yesssssssss

go on do the metal drummers poll, you know you want to

polling is your business... and business is good

needs a muso who knows about drummers

dude from Absu is so much better than Lombardo it's hilarious, so's George Kollias, so's Pete Sandoval, Lombardo is a fantastic drummer but the only way he's the best drummer in metal is if the only metal bands you know are Slayer & Metallica

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:40 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
tbf thats most slayer fans

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:43 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Fuck both of you.

oh come now bill, lighten up bro

in fairness tho Bill you've never heard any of those drummers, right?

Ive seen Morbid Angel live at least three times. I think it's really lame to try to cross examine a guy about his bona fides like that, man.

I love lombardo too but just listen to "she cries the quiet lake":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPRKFi_oeQ

the part that kicks in around 1:45 and then ride out for most of the rest of the track is one of my favorite moments in all of metal!

and those fills!

Yes, i will admit, the only metal bands Ive ever heard of are Slayer and Metallica. You've found me out.

Thanks Herm, for giving me the login name. You never told me what it means.

xxpost

Bill you might wanna try some deep breathing, it's fuckin' music thread ribbing for Christ's fuckin' sake

like I don't know how to break this to you but sometimes on music threads on the internet people say things like "anybody who likes Humble Pie is an asshole" when they don't actually mean that at all

dont put words in my mouth here, mister, i mean every hyperbolic statement i have ever posted 1000% from the heart

that jjjusten really hates those assholes who like Humble Pie

Thanks Herm, for giving me the login name. You never told me what it means.

xxpost

― Thraft of Cleveland (Bill Magill),

huh? I never gave you that login name

No big deal. Trust me, I dont get worked up about this shit. I throw bombs around here as much as anyone.

xpost.

dont even get me started on those humble pie lovin motherfuckers

hahah xposts

high five

I love Humble Pie, and I can be an asshole.

I know I said I was taking some time off...but it was such a weird coincidence...

as someone who plays bass in a small hard-rock/metal band who has spent his last two Saturdays in the recording studio, I can say at least that our drummer got recorded first, the guitarist played along with him, laying down scratch tracks in the process. I did not play along with the drummer at all, and when it was time for me to record my bass parts, I listened to both the guitars and the drums, after which our guitarist recorded two tracks of himself over us...

it shd be noted that I am easily the least skilled member of our band though.

better than "angel of death", real talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXjm8pZMws

It's weird that Larz wouldn't have the bass in his monitor, just like it'd be weird for the EWF guy to not have the horns and vox in there too, but in the end, I kinda think it's more up to the bass player to build upon the drummer's part than any cooperation. It's not like the drummer has to follow along with anything as long as he's playing in time. Hell, Steven Adler only paid attention to Slash's right leg most of the time.

People always bag on Justice for sounding crappy (and rightly so), but they always leave out a pretty key fact -- Metallica albums have ALWAYS sounded crappy. Black Album, Load, and Reload are the only ones that actually sound good, and we know what people think of those.

Meanwhile, as to Metallica in 2011, I think what we're hearing is a band that has lost interest in playing metal but feels obligated to defend the faith. I mean, look at the track listing of the new songs they chose for Garage Inc. Bob Seger is a pretty far cry from Diamondhead. I actually think that "I Disappear" is the most honest song they've done in the last decade or so. St. anger and death magnetic sound like a band that isn't listening to the artistic instincts, instead doing what they think people want from them -- but since it's not what they want from themselves, their compasses are skewed.

so what jeff is saying is that metallica are a joke now, death magnetic is shit despite what the hardcore fans want us to believe and metallica corporation should split up and lars should go live in an underground bunker where bass will never trouble him?

if so jeff OTM

The joke is that underground, all you can hear is the bass.

but overground wont be able to hear lars

This was a while ago but I have to take issue with this:

This is maybe the single stupidest thing metalheads get worked up about. Why is it so hard to understand that ...And Justice For All sounds the way it does because that's how Metallica wants it to sound? You might as well dub in trombone and zither as pump up the bass. Just get over it, people. They wanted to make a thin, dry, harsh-sounding album and they fucking made one. And it sounds perfect; exactly how those songs should sound.

― that's not funny. (unperson), Thursday, March 3, 2011 8:22 AM

This comment, taken to its natural conclusion, says that any and all art is beyond any and all criticism if we merely shrug and say "It's what they wanted to do."

Sometimes what they wanted to do sucks. Usually it's not the production, but this is why not every review you write is glowing with praise.

I can see how criticizing an album because of the production might be unfair if you were reviewing an independent band whose lack of budget and time/resources might unwittingly contribute to this. Back in my fanzine days, I often had to overlook horrible production on demo tapes and tried to get into the essense of the band and their sound because the poor sound was generally not their fault.

But if a band has all the money and time in the world and releases a disc that sounds the way AJFA does - and does so because they want it to sound that way? Hell yes, that's a legitimate thing to be critical of!

I mean, in a medium of sound, if we cannot be critical of HOW it sounds, what can we be critical of?

haircuts

paid critics?

art collections

choice in tour bus drivers

shrinks

firing practices

decisions to sue fans

lars

Metallica started to suck when James Hetfield stopped skateboarding.

THerefore skateboarding was essential to Metallica's greatness.

QED

St. Anger also sounds exactly how the band wanted it...

Great work of art that stands above any form of criticism ;-)

(For the record: I actually don't hate this album)

I do.

Couple of great songs on that one. It was the album that got me interested in the band again. I gave it a spin to get a good laugh out of it, based on all the bad press. But I quickly developed a liking for the thrash riffs.

i'm madly in anger with you

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

metallica will walk this right?

We can only hope.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

42 people didn't see Megadeth before So Far, So Good...So What

Didn't expect such a blowout but did expect this outcome.

I think the 90s FITE would be more competitive.

A victory for the Herm Neuname led, Ulver/Slough Feg championing false metal crew.

slough feg are false metal? are you smithy in disguise?

I think the 90s FITE would be more competitive.

not so sure. rust in peace pretty much decimates anything metallica put out in the 90s.

would probably even take countdown over the black album and cryptic writings over the loads. but it's probably been over a decade since I've spun any of them.

i remember being really into cryptic writings at the time!

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQUAF5Mhy68

yeah, I was also pretty into it at the time!

I never had much use for youthanasia tho.

what a shitty cover

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/Cryptic_writings_cover.jpg

slough feg are false metal? are you smithy in disguise?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:17 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yes. And no idea what your second question means.

There are very few things that I wouldn't take over Load/Reload.

I've actually never even been able to listen to either of those albums in full. the singles + casual listens with friends that bought em just made the prospect way too depressing for me.

reload is dreadful but Load isn't that bad if you listen to it imagining it as a side project rather than a Metallica album.

Load/Reload both blow chunks on their own merit, but when compared to Rust in Peace they are a complete embarrassment.

bill magill otm

bill magill otm

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:49 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP-bHgGTA9U&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uyj8dcppJc&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwTZbdCUstY&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kYrPDUFT0Q&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rxa5QKLh3o&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyh4GQq4j0k&feature=related

https://open.spotify.com/track/4uAcTDOyAy9T0T5Yw2Z3CC?si=X_bXERlJTQKr8EpMdxzQCg