ILM Classic or Dud?

1. Bands do not have to stick to a guitar-bass-drums, verse-chorus-verse format to be good.
2. Popularity is not proof of quality/poverty.
3. Lack of popularity is not proof of quality/poverty.
4. Bands do not have to write their own songs and play their own instruments to be good.

ILM is great because you can have PROPER conversations about music, without faltering at these stumbling blocks straight off.

ILM can be frustrating as hell, too (there can be lots of nit-picking and pedantic criticism). But it's worth it.

ILM is 
           unutterably classic 
Goddam you all know it, 
                       viewing it from 
distanced eyes, 
              allowing you to see 
its flaws
         just feel it. 

Dud

Yeah, nobody cares about music released in the last 20 years.

I only purchase music magazines with The Beatles or Kurt Cobain on the cover.

I find it to be most dud when people rain on the parade of long clusterfuck threads. The long clusterfuck threads are the only time I actually find ILM worth reading.

I like almost all the album threads that generate long discussions, e.g., Radiohead -- In Rainbows, M.I.A. -- Kala. They don't have to be mega-threads or anything.

I have less interest in polls, which I think have outlasted their usefulness and crossed-over into self-parody (e.g., ''Best song on some band's three-song EP'').

I find it to be most dud when people rain on the parade of long clusterfuck threads. The long clusterfuck threads are the only time I actually find ILM worth reading.

-- Hurting 2, Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:10 PM

I tend to agree. "OMG there is serious discussion happening about something, time for my hilarious imagebomb skillz!" is mad dud.

Yeah, but I don't mind people saying they don't like an album amid dozens of "OMG this is the best disc ever"-type praise. It generates discussion (so long as that discussion doesn't deteriorate into just snark).

Totally.

I love the way we all turn up here with completely different, often apparently incompatible, tastes and get on like a community anyway. It's great, and there's almost no musical area where you can't get fascinating conversation and info and suggestions. (There are few areas where you can't get idiotic abuse occasionally too, but I'll pay that price for the benefits.)

OTM. And for what it's worth I'd say I'm at maybe 12 CDs a year lately, but thanks largely to ILM they're damn good ones.

So, classic. And thanks, all.

Classic, but can we please stop with these boring catch-all, "indie-rock" kinds of threads?

That "Paler Shade of White" thread has been pretty interesting, tho.

or Indiepop threads, whatever, same thing

Nah, you guys ain't got nothing on the dude who did the Black Sabbath comp

some ILM love/hate :

http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/where-have-all-the-music-messageboards-gone?utm_source=noiseyfbuk

why i otta

lol @ Ott quotes

hah hadnt seen this and posted it on what next for Chris ott?

you can guess the reaction

seriously.
ott is the issue here ?
fuck an oldster ..
i thought this article made a few valid points other than a few quotes from an ilm troll ..
but hey ..

xpost.
nope.
not seen that thread as i have no interest in old personalities of ilm.
i was more interested in the supposed/revised role of ilm of the new world.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/may/29/online-forums-musical-culture-messageboards-social-media-music-essay

Love the selection of thread titles captured in the ILM screenshot (from y’day)!

Yes. Nice, and written by Tom Ewing.

Forgot Dissensus still exists.

ha, this is awesome.

the facebook music group i am an admin of has over 16,000 members now! so, people still want to gab about music. or watch other people gab. one or the other.

conner Smedley shoutout!

something that piece doesn't touch on at all is reddit, which has largely superseded messageboards in the modern internet and has many very very active music boards. those are so large and active though that they don't have the same sense of community or slower more involved discussions that messageboards can have, part of the nature reddit in general

then there are the RYM discussion boards, which are fucking abysmal

ILM rules

good article but the preponderance of the past tense made me feel even older than usual

looking at recent RYM threads says it all:
"Are Pixies alternative rock or indie rock?"
"Why did hip hop, until recently, have such lousy cover art?"
"Artists and bands that are actually avant-garde and experimental"
and just endless 200 page threads on various rym statistical detritus

What does ILM have against werewolves? Dud.

has anyone else looked at 555-5555? I was looking at it when it launched and I did like that there are loads of enthusiastic posts about new music instead of, y’know, yet another thread about the fucking beatles, but unfortunately lots of those had just a couple of responses, if any. also it’s really ugly to look at, lots of useless clutter everywhere

Beatles forum is an idea I stand by

I'm planing to hang about it, ILX too slow in our era to take up all my working hours and anything that keeps me off Facebook is good.

Love the selection of thread titles captured in the ILM screenshot (from y’day)!
Me too but now every Graun reader knows how I was wasting the Bank Holiday. Hey I was gardening before that and down the park later... :/

Dud.

yet another thread about the fucking beatles

are you going to complain about this in every thread

yes, in all two of them

ILM rules

― California scheming (Ross), Tuesday, 29 May 2018 18:52 (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Controversial opinion, but yes.

there’s no caging this monster

always nice to see American Music Club get some press coverage

They spawned offline meet-ups

tkirr, the London message-board-creator-and-forsaker absolutely sourced his Toejam reference herein from an NYC-based poster in Seattle last month, witnessed by an Australian poster

someone needs to profile the olds on hoffmanboards and beach boys boards they are all lunatics

hoffman boards are the fastest moving message board i've ever seen, and i've been basically constantly online since 6th grade

someone just called public enemy the rolling stones of rap on my facebook music group. #theychangedthegame #dadrap

One of the things that made ilm good was it was relatively small, and difficult to find out about (i found it on a blogroll of a second-tier mp3 blog) which kept it small and also acted as kind of a preliminary filter

i once looked at music boards on reddit and they were all so boring, even the somethingawful boards don’t compare to ilm

Scott ‘s NP FB group is geared to vinyl. I mostly just lurk

I was on the Now Playing FB group and one other similar group for a while, but it doesn't lend itself to conversation, more like "Hey, someone's playing Television's Marquee Moon again".

Why is ILM less heavily trafficked nowadays than it was in the early/mid-2000s? Is the drop-off due to users migrating to social media for similar discussions, or is it more just former users falling away (due to disinterest, change in habits, etc.) and not the userbase not being refreshed?

That Now Playing group is bonkers! Every record dude in SF is on it! I had to mute it cuz it was my whole feed! Congrats on your success Scott. You will be a future Steve Hoffman.

I’m on that Now Playing group and I think a weirdo Bob Newhart record got me the most “action” on there. Either that or some Bowie LP. It’s insane. I also had to mute it.

was it that newhart record done for the cast and crew that looks like sgt pepper? i had that in my hand at Freak Beat and didn't buy it and regret it ever since.

Tom didn't need to go hard on himself for the lack of 'intervention'. iirc ILM was good at clamping down on extremes. That posters who contributed weren't banned for their bad days is a thing that isn't easily solvable.

"Congrats on your success Scott."

marc masters was the person who started it. but he wisely took himself out of the game so that he could get some work done.

i'm not on there a ton anymore. i keep an eye out for rule-breaking posts. but there are some nice folks on there. i reconnected with an old philly digger friend of mine who i haven't seen in forever.

this is the record btw if any of you come across it in the wild pls sell it to me

https://www.popsike.com/pix/20150614/161734513242.jpg

its still fun for jaw-dropping owen maercks and andy zax posts too.

They spawned offline meet-ups

an ILx crew made me drink malort in Chicago in 2010.
i should have killed my account there and then.

hey chaki, yeah that's the one. found it at Amoeba for a buck, i guess it's worth a decent amount. it's got a lot of larry and darryl and darryl content.

i've met dozens and dozens of ilxors irl and they are always super nice. pussycats!

i've met dozens and dozens of ilxors irl and they are always super nice. pussycats!

the folks were wonderful people.
its the fact they made me drink malort that i will never forgive.

fair

Scott ‘s NP FB group is geared to vinyl. I mostly just lurk

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, May 29, 2018 4:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not really...I mean, there might be slightly more vinyl posts, but there's not much "THIS IS A HOT STAMPER, WIDER SOUNDSTAGE THAN ON THE 1974 PRESSING" kind of talk. Hell, someone just posted all 70+ discs of a Miles Davis box (and I posted all my Cecil Taylor recordings, only one of which was vinyl).

Scott's NP FB group sounds great - I'd love to check it out, but damn if I'll ever join FB. I love that ILM is around as a board still b/c too many folks want to point music discussion/music promotion/etc. to FB.

Nick b if you’re talking to me that’s lame man.

I’m not a monster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uL1Ll6lRoM

Lol!!!!! It’s

There was no noticable change in the number of new user registrations as a result of Tom's article, btw.

why would there be

I mean, he painted it as a stultifying backwater only inhabited by an insular circle of ppl who can't move on with their lives

ooh, new board description

Tom OTM obv

we have polls now too

Nick b if you’re talking to me that’s lame man.

No ross, I wasn’t talking to you, it was just an xp to myself

Cheers thanks man sorry for that

en there are the RYM discussion boards, which are fucking abysmal

― imago, Tuesday, May 29, 2018 1:51 PM (two days ago)

I beg to differ

haha, that person a) decided Cardiacs are the best band (yay!) and then b) invited every vocal Cardiacs fan on RYM into a chatroom they are never away from (D:)

of course ILX with its flawless track record of dealing with hyperenthusiastic trans people would be far better equipped to handle such a thread

did you join?

it seems like at any give time there's one poster on the rym forum who starts 10 threads a day, turns the forum into their personal blog, and announces some outrageous project like reviewing every album released in the '90s, only to mysteriously deactivate their account several months later, leaving a void that's quickly filled by a new poster with a near-identical persona. it's like it's an elected office or something.

in ilx's (slight) defense, I don't think anyone here passively-aggressively misgenders trans posters or rants about SJW's white knighting CRJ. there's a not insignificant alt-right presence on that board even though the most egregious offenses are usually shot down pretty quickly

I joined...briefly

tbf while there's some anti-trans on RYM there are also a LOT of trans users

at any give time there's one poster on the rym forum who starts 10 threads a day, turns the forum into their personal blog

nobody on here like that

oh, of course not ;)

aware I've collected myself with that one

It has its moments of being classic and/or dud, but right now it's slap bang in the middle of the dud category.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivWY9wn5ps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMm4b47pXBA

needs more pavement discussion imo

Dud, no-one ever mentions the Dan or the Mac

the day a fetus marked ILM's homework.

The trouble is, we're not purely a Parquet Courts fansite yet

fucking hate Wimbledon!

yeah, they keep fucking beating us!

And as the usual suspects come out of the woodwork, I rest my case.

The trouble is, we're not purely a Parquet Courts fansite yet

They're growing on me tbh

Get curious, not furious.

Turrican, what's missing for you these days? I still find bits and bobs worth chiming in about though not as much as in the past.

Yes, where is ILM going right?

Turrican, what's missing for you these days? I still find bits and bobs worth chiming in about though not as much as in the past.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, July 13, 2018 1:23 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is it in a nutshell, basically. I've found that a lot of (most of?) the posters I enjoy reading the most are no longer posting as frequently or have stopped posting entirely. There's still a couple of decent folks about (and it's great to see you posting - it's been a while) but ILM these days is such a drag to read. Activity has slowed down and I'm not taken with the level of conversation of most of the current regulars.

exit is thataway

"The way out is through the door/ how come nobody uses it?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySjN5vzc4lE

sounds like we need a new Beatles megathread :-p

exit is thataway

― imago, Friday, July 13, 2018 2:00 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You're part of the problem, tbh.

go on

As for quitting? Nah. That's too extreme, and I'm not a drama queen. Besides, if ILM keeps up its current form, it'll naturally fizzle out anyway.

LOL. If there was Giger counter that measured irony, background irony, residual irony, it would have disintegrated by now.

(xp) Listen, if it can survive you...

Kinda like I assume all your offline relationships have, Tom. Although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

And this is why people love your style

No offence, but if there were an Olympic event for trying to ensure everyone in your vicinity was having a shit day simply because you were, you'd take the gold, silver and bronze in a heartbeat. It's a shame, because you're (from what I can tell) a very intelligent guy with a lot of interesting things to say when the mood takes you.

I'm not taken with the level of conversation of most of the current regulars.

I'm not a drama queen.

^^^^Behold: the great black hole of ilx.

Try not to get sucked in.

are those wavering lines rising above Turrican's posts a byproduct of the type of no-nonsense hot dynamism and bloody strong opinions he represents ? 💩💩💩💩💩

Yeah, shut up and look at memes instead in the thread with the wacky writing, that oughta be good.

OK Turrican I'll be fair and honest you just made me laugh and I'll put my hands up to the first bit. Now why don't you think about whether your own ad hominem trigger is a little loose sometimes hey?

whenever i see "which ilx poster has had the most transformative effect on your life?" get bumped i yearn to post about the small handful of ilxors who are so suffocatingly bad that i have adapted what i like or am interested in purely in the hope of avoiding them on ilx. turrican is absolutely in that group.

I don't mind dull-witted people who have nothing interesting to say and have literally never said anything original or insightful ever, live and let live, it takes all sorts etc, but when they have a peevish nasty streak in them, it's not a great combination.

NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO HAVE FUN. THIS IS ONLY A BOARD FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO APPEAR INTELLIGENT.

Are you on the right thread?

Just trying to get in line with what we're all here for: diddling Turicunt's excitement.

You're such a charmer, Austin... no wonder y... no, I've already done that one.

OK Turrican I'll be fair and honest you just made me laugh and I'll put my hands up to the first bit. Now why don't you think about whether your own ad hominem trigger is a little loose sometimes hey?

― more like Toss, Ow amirite? (Noodle Vague), Friday, July 13, 2018 3:15 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just react to whatever I get thrown at me, basically. Tom D. obviously realises this as you can see from his posts since the revive.

I just react to whatever I get thrown at me, basically.

Of course you'd get all indignant after being the one to revive the thread to essentially call everyone stupid.

Except I didn't call everyone stupid, I said that ILM is going through a crap period and incredibly, nobody has actually disputed that in any one of the subsequent posts.

Anyway, I have far better things to do that play a game of "insult ping-pong" with you and Tom D., even though it may just be the most exciting ILM has been for weeks. I'll leave you all to the memes, the bagging on amateur music fans, saying very little of any value about music, trying to outdo each other in bizarre ways and indulging endless posts of "HELLO CLEVELAND R U MY FUCKIN MAIN MAN!?!?" for now and hopefully things will pick up.

you're my main man Turrican

hopefully things will pick up.

Not as long as you're around.

Seriously dude, enough is enough. Has there ever been a time when you weren't a totally contemptible wretch whose main activities here haven't been along the lines of metaphorically sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and yelling out about how much you like / dislike something?

Get out.

lads

ilm isnt worth this level of vitriol

I look forward to the day people stop acting like the pot calling the kettle (yet pretending they aren't) and take some responsibility. This is a great place when it works.

read that in a Big Sam voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG4hOjJ9tEs

love that clip!

deems otm. I don't actually understand Turrican's last but one post tbh!

hey um ILM is not a tv show

if this thread has done one thing good, it's got me remembering that Raylan was a classic and Justified is sorely missed.

I look forward to the day people stop acting like the pot calling the kettle (yet pretending they aren't) and take some responsibility.

I want you to read this slowly, out loud and then log out, go for a walk, and try again tomorrow.

Same except for the last part

Austin, only you can find the power within you to change. I can't do it for you. I'm sure these words sound familiar but it bears repeating.

To get back to the subject at hand, I joined ILM 10 years ago. At the time, the zing crowd was all over anyone they felt didn't fit in and drove off new posters and killed threads. These days I don't see that behavior much, this thread notwithstanding.

I've always enjoyed talking about old favorites but there's probably not a lot left for me to say about The Associates or The Chameleons or whatever old post-punk band I love. Having said that, I've been enjoying my Stereolab poll I recently created.

ILM has been great for tipping me off to young bands - I usually dip into busy threads and check out Youtube posts or pull up Spotify. Additionally, I often search old threads for information about new discoveries or unfamiliar genres. This hasn't lessened at all for me, only my tastes have changed over the years.

One of ILMs strengths has always been mixing older and younger music obsessives, which often leads to great discussions (cf Fall threads). I'm sure the pull towards social media and away from forums like this one has resulted in fewer regulars than in the past but that's the way it is.

Ultimately, I don't blame ILM for focusing on different artists than I might prefer. Occasionally, I drop in on the Steve Hoffman forums and guffaw at the folks still going on about some old classic rock album but I can be just as bad.

Noodle vague - what the hell with that user name dude

Classic

xp it's proper

Agree with turrican here

In 20 years of reading ilm this is the most bored I’ve been by it. Honestly I may have changed and not the site but yeah basically my absence probably won’t matter all around, meh. Good luck all

When an old ILM thread is revived, I often scroll up, skim thru some posts, and reflect how much better nu-ILM is (at least for my taste)... more laid-back, much less drama. Just check out the “RTX vs. Straight-Edge” thread that was revived a few minutes ago, as an example...

*shits*

Ross - it's a football thing, sorry, the terrible pun is about a former Brazilian player called Tostao. Didn't even think about how else it might look.

🙄 what did Ross imagine the “ow” referred to in this assumed pun on his username?!

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1811/0467/products/mens-bob-ross-happy-tree-socks_30d116f3-035f-4a4c-b1b7-b4340358a44d.jpg?v=1499955789

what did Ross imagine the “ow” referred to in this assumed pun on his username?!

Ross seems to regularly turn from a mogwai to a gremlin at midnight, picking a semi-random thread in which to inexplicably invite another poster to die in a fire

(I couldn't even parse what he might be saying until your post)

That’s a great bit

Providing it is always exactly at midnight

I don't mind dull-witted people who have nothing interesting to say and have literally never said anything original or insightful ever

Feel so attacked rn

I'm no writer but try to say a little bit about things sometimes, usually just revert to dumping a bandcamp link and running away. It's no secret there's not a lot of discussion on ILM apart from when there's some controversy, don't really know how to address that though. ILM may be sleepy but at least the dickhead contingent is lower here than practically anywhere else and better than it used to be in that regard.

I know nothing about sports, sorry! Carry on

Same, I don't really have any illusions about the quality of my writing or my ability to have an extended argument about the merits of this or that music, so I mostly stick to brief comments to express my enthusiasm about my favorite music. It's been many years since I've actively tried to engage in threads about music I don't like because I just don't have the fortitude or patience to fight over it, and I don't really feel the need to shit all over something that someone else loves.

xp

If I do have much to say I usually keep it to RYM where standards are so low it doesn't matter how incoherent it is! And I also try to avoid dumping on music, there's so much else to be annoyed by or angry about, sometimes it's unavoidable though.

Older I get I would rather just listen to or make music than write about it. Love reading all of your thoughts though. Would rather turn people onto records or discover them from posters here than anything else really.

/They spawned offline meet-ups/

an ILx crew made me drink malort in Chicago in 2010.
i should have killed my account there and then.

Feel so attacked rn

You're not being attacked.

Sorry! Come back and we’ll stick with beer.

ha !
I wish I could.
was a truly wonderful experience.
even the malort.

In 20 years of reading ilm this is the most bored I’ve been by it.

I blame the music.

Plenty of good music this year tho, no?

ilm is
what u make of it

So much badness in this thread.

We just need a separate ILM for the lamest I think

maybe break into separate departments: Taxonomy, Statistics, Over-ratement Studies

We just need a separate ILM for the lamest I think

― brimstead, Saturday, July 14, 2018 1:24 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dats me! Ok with being in junior varsity

Probably should be a dedicated thread for band A + band B = band C equations. I'd be all over that.

bring back the dickheads

One of the things that made ilm good was it was relatively small, and difficult to find out about (i found it on a blogroll of a second-tier mp3 blog) which kept it small and also acted as kind of a preliminary filter

― flopson

Was it mine? I can’t remember other mp3 blogs that linked here. I was more active on the now defunct elbo.ws community back then as that’s were most mp3 bloggers posted. I don’t know how many mp3 bloggers habg around here anymore... Sean gramophone and matthew perpetua do but they are first tier...!not sure if there’s anyone else around. Tried to get Justin from Aquarium Drunkard and Chris from gorillavsbear in here but they probably thought it was dud.

It's no secret there's not a lot of discussion on ILM apart from when there's some controversy,

otm and why I mostly lurk now. also poptimism zzzzzz

Poptimism ruined ilx

It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Poptimism, have I got that right?

I first chanced upon an ILM thread when googling "hypnagogic pop" and discovered it was just some made up bollox by someone at The Wire who'd too many yellow smarties that day.

If I remember correctly I first stumbled into ILM while looking in google for info on an obscure track (can’t remember which one was it but ILM was one of the top links on google). Lurking around I think I stumbled into Geir Hongro saying Depeche Mode was the only electronic artist with melody or some weird shit like that and I had to create a profile to express my disbelief. Little did I know this was a daily reaction for everyone in here whenever he posted. I miss the old loon sometimes.

Can't remember exactly how I found it. Probably either through the Stereolab or forum or from Simon Reynolds.

think i found it via the "ignition" thread

Unless I have the chronology mixed up I think I started lurking via bill fay -> Marcello Carlin’s blog -> ilm!

& I basically never check it now, not because I think the quality’s dropped necessarily - I don’t think I’d check whatever flavour of old school ilm now either

The Big & Rich stanning of 2004 was the beginning of the end afaic

thanks paul ponzi

Though President Donald Trump announced he wanted to run for the nation’s highest office in June 2015, Big & Rich’s John Rich first heard about Trump’s bid four years earlier when the country star won the Celebrity Apprentice.

“So I win Celebrity Apprentice, all of the confetti falls out of the ceiling, I’m standing there next to Mr. Trump,” Rich — who won season 11 of the reality show, raising a record $1.4 million for St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital — tells PEOPLE Now.

Continues Rich: “And he’s got his arm around. We were taking pictures and he leans over to me and he goes, ‘You know I’m thinking about running for president.’ And I’m going, ‘Yeah I heard about that.’ And he’s like, ‘What do you think?’ I went, ‘I think you ought to go for it man. Why not?’ and he goes, ‘Good. Thanks. Congratulations.’”

The singer-songwriter, 43, admits that looking back at that moment he never imagined he would be “hanging out with the future president” while appearing on the television series.

“Being around him on the show is not dissimilar to what you see now with him — which is you never know what he’s going to say to you,” explained Rich. “It’s how he keeps everybody on the edge of their seat.”

Now, Rich, along with bandmate Big Kenny, are busy with the release of their new album Did It for the Party.

“We were just walking through Times Square a minute ago and I stopped Kenny and I said, ‘Remember when we walked, I think it was about right here and we dropped at like 2 o’ clock in the morning, and did push ups in the middle of Times Square with our Crown and Coke sitting right next to us’ — which I’m pretty sure was not allowed,” Rich said of the duo’s craziest party moment.

He added: “But we’ve always had a great time with our music and with our lives just coming at it with everything we’ve got. All of the great things that ever happened to us — and it’s probably the same for a lot of people — happen when you’re out there just living life to the fullest. Great things happen.”

It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Poptimism, have I got that right?

Yeah, that's my impression too - "poptimism" wasn't a term back then but this board was super poptimist from the get-go, much more then than it is now in fact.

We've truly entered an era of self-indulgence here, haven't we!?

I think it's pretty cool. Was a day you'd ask ILM to list their favorite songs you'd get silence

(or albums or anything)

imagine people talking about the music they love on i love music

let's have no more of it

We've truly entered an era of self-indulgence here, haven't we!?
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican),

I am out of touch re most of the nu-era ILM groove, but : huh ?

These are my favourite songs,what do you reckon?

Polls though, innit?