Which genres of popular music that have been around for 30+ years are still evolving?

inspired by the Rap Vs. Metal thread - it's clear that both genres are over 30 years old yet seem to be evolving - rap & metal both crib from new ideas and technology - they are continually evolving despite going for 30 or 40 years

vs. how electronic/techno for instance is more interested in retro stuff - has it run out of ideas? it was supposed to be about "music of the future" but now it's all rehashing the '80s - i mean, i don't necessarily believe it has run out of ideas, but some say it has

what other 30+ year old genres are still evolving continually like rap & metal? also, when does a genre actually ~DIE~ and just become a regurgitation of the past???

Country
Jazz
Blues
Electronic
Hip Hop / Rap <-- evolving
Reggae
Folk
Rhythm & Blues
Rock
Heavy Metal <-- evolving
Punk Rock

lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history

this is a dumb thread

Any other genres like metal & "dance music" where the hundreds of sub-genres have dozens of sub-sub-genres?

Dervish <-- revolving

there are segments of all of these genres that are changing & pushing, and segments that are regressive. it's easy to point to the retro/regressive parts and "see, x is dead".

Goes without saying, but I don't see how any of those genres are evolving any more or less than each other. A fair bit of electronic/dance music is looking back at 80s and 90s sounds, but the distinction between Tensnake and S'Express is enormous. And dubstep as it stands couldn't really have come out any earlier than the last few years.

A lot of this depends on how one perceives evolution in music. Some styles rely on huge sea changes whereas others move at an incrementally constant rate. In dance it could be argued that what we're calling deep house right now isn't that different from early-2000s microhouse. But to followers of dance music, the difference is again huge.

Is reggae / ragga / dancehall moving on? Last time I paid more than a modicum of interest in dancehall was in 2003, but I lost interest due to too many cheesy hiphop spoofs and the same recycled riddims. A recent thread by Lex has got me interested again, but have there been any major changes since those days?

This is a hard question to parse. You take electronic music as an instance where it has stopped evolving, yet I'd say it is still incredibly vibrant, it's just evolved so far as to not necessarily be recognisable where it appears. So you're not necessarily asking about a genre that is 30+ and still evolving, what you're asking is for examples of genres where they're simultaneously in stasis and progressive.

vs. how electronic/techno for instance is more interested in retro stuff - has it run out of ideas? it was supposed to be about "music of the future" but now it's all rehashing the '80s - i mean, i don't necessarily believe it has run out of ideas, but some say it has

hope this helps ^^

i agree w/ you emil.y but many others would be inclined not to!

maybe "evolution" is the wrong word here because evolution never stops. it doesn't have an end point or a goal. or maybe it is the right word, and this is a stupid thread.

That's not true - evolution can stop at extinction.

That's a cheery thought for the day

oh ok. well none of the listed genres are extinct so they are still evolving.

Man, don't you know? Punk is dead.

really don't get this conception of electronic music as futuristic - just don't see it this way (this is neither a positive nor a negative)

Man, don't you know? Punk is dead.

Out there maybe but not in here *pounds chest*

really don't get this conception of electronic music as futuristic - just don't see it this way (this is neither a positive nor a negative)

― cherry blossom,

I dunno, lots of bands/fans definitely used to come out with it, dunno about now.

also yay to thread for getting G posting on ilm!

im sure they did! doesn't mean i get it

It is more futuristic than a fuckin' trumpet or a banjo or sumhtin'

you slagging banjos now?

remember the hairy banjo song from primary school?

That new obscure genre "suggest ban" music is evolving.

suggest banjo

smh @ this thread

if only there was some electronic music out there besides Chromeo that ilxor could listen to

Oh for the love of god shut up.

i dunno who matt is shouting at, whiney or ilxor

lol @ sam

Shouting at Whiney. The thread question is kind of stupid but it's preferable to Whiney churning out his fifth-rate Strongohulkington routine for the 40th time this week.

"this week"

Hip Hop / Rap <-- evolving

this thread <-- devolving

A recent thread by Lex has got me interested again, but have there been any major changes since those days?

do there have to be "major changes" to a genre to pique your interest? what counts as a major change, as opposed to incremental ones that may or may not add up to a major change over time?

also "major changes" aren't just to do with the sound...

if only there was some electronic music out there besides Chromeo that ilxor could listen to

dude c'mon i said i think electronic IS evolving, just that others dont! besides i've never knowingly heard a chromeo track. are they good? tell me. have you seen them on pfork, whiney?

they sublet a room in his apartment iirc

sure it's not the other way around?

do there have to be "major changes" to a genre to pique your interest? what counts as a major change, as opposed to incremental ones that may or may not add up to a major change over time?

also "major changes" aren't just to do with the sound...

― lex pretend, Thursday, 24 March 2011 16:13 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

viz. my original post: I'm not necessarily looking for major changes, but I'm not really that interested in a stagnant sound either. All modern styles of music tend to move or shapeshift in some way as time goes on. So I'm just interested to know how much dancehall has moved on from when I used to listen to it. I'm sure it has - I'd be disappointed and surprised if they're still heavily using the Diwali riddim and parodying D12 songs or what have you - but I'm interested in any tangible reasons dancehall/ragga has moved on: i.e. whether there've been any significant shifts in the technology, method, lyrical rhetoric, star players or overall sound that separates it from the same genre 8 years ago.

Dancehall is mostly gay guys doing songs about shooting straights now

agree with Jordan, this is a ridiculous thread premise. all music is evolving all the time.

So I'm just interested to know how much dancehall has moved on from when I used to listen to it. I'm sure it has - I'd be disappointed and surprised if they're still heavily using the Diwali riddim and parodying D12 songs or what have you - but I'm interested in any tangible reasons dancehall/ragga has moved on: i.e. whether there've been any significant shifts in the technology, method, lyrical rhetoric, star players or overall sound that separates it from the same genre 8 years ago.

Thing is, this just proves you're not interested, otherwise you'd made the effort to listen to it in the eight years since it was briefly in the charts.

even blues?

xp

yes

c'mon dude do you have any idea how much new blues music is made every year? TONS

xpost - Matt, I sometimes wonder if you even read my posts before replying, honestly. I said in my first post that I'd lost interest in dancehall after a fleeting and casual affair with it about 8 years ago and that I am now interested to know how it has moved on, partly in response to the (slightly ridiculous) premise of this thread, but mostly because I am wondering whether to invest more time in it because I quite liked the one or two tracks Lex posted in the rolling thread.

March 2011 blues albums

now do Fraggle

xpost - Matt, I sometimes wonder if you even read my posts before replying, honestly. I said in my first post that I'd lost interest in dancehall after a fleeting and casual affair with it about 8 years ago and that I am now interested to know how it has moved on, partly in response to the (slightly ridiculous) premise of this thread, but mostly because I am wondering whether to invest more time in it because I quite liked the one or two tracks Lex posted in the rolling thread.

― You killed my accountant... now YOU must be my accountant (dog latin), Thursday, 24 March 2011 09:4

I think its because you're kind of approaching a genre in terms of its connection to the same genre 8 years ago, instead of just approaching in terms of right now, as though you are looking for some kind of narrative or 'progression' between the two time periods. Also, you know...if you wanted to hear things, you already would have - there's no obligation to hear any!

I don't really think any genre evolves. They all change though, as various styles and fashions and approaches come into and out of play

yeah "evolves" has some terrible connotations that get in the way of concepts of biological evolution never mind art

This is maybe a personal thing but I don't really get actively wanting evolution of (or change in) a genre. I mean its not like there's a shortage of great records being made. Things gradually cycle, shift and percolate the whole time anyway, but actively looking for novelty/newness, evolution, progression implies a certain dissatisfaction with what is now - to me at least

This is maybe a personal thing but I don't really get actively wanting evolution of (or change in) a genre. I mean its not like there's a shortage of great records being made. Things gradually cycle, shift and percolate the whole time anyway, but actively looking for novelty/newness, evolution, progression implies a certain dissatisfaction with what is now - to me at least

yeah totally. and of course there are also bad, uninspired, stagnant records being made all the time, and it's fine to be dissatisfied with that - but the opposite of that ISN'T necessarily "major changes" or visible evolution - that's such a simplistic way of looking at how genres do change over time.

Classical is still evolving, it's just that 90% of classical lovers have no interest in anything after 1900.

^^

Those that look for change will never see it

I agree all genres are changing all the time (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, usually for both at the same time), but I'm sort of surprised that anybody would assume for a minute that r&b isn't "evolving" (or whatever). Is that a common belief? When is it supposed to have stopped??

When they found the R & B skeletons in the closet.

r&b is like the definition of futurism. or something.

given its roots and where it has gone.

I think there's a legitimate issue at the heart of the original question. For example, jazz is no longer the force it once was in pop culture though of course it's still around and new and wonderful jazz albums come out every year. But the general perception, because it's not as pre-eminent as it once was, is that jazz has had it's day. And in some ways that's true, as it is for genres that aren't as dominant as they once were like classical, blues and even rock. So what can we say about these genres? Have they become niche to the point that any major changes from an artist aren't really integrated back into the genre, and therefore no true "evolution" is occuring outside of a clutch of challenging artists?

that's just a problem of perception. jazz records made today don't really sound like jazz records made 30 years ago, if only because of the different recording technology involved, to say nothing of actual evolution of technique. that it's not the force in larger pop culture that it once was is completely irrelevant to the material facts of the work being produced over the course of the genre's history.

but I'm sort of surprised that anybody would assume for a minute that r&b isn't "evolving"

ilxor just hasn;t heard Weeknd yet

this is matthew shipp from 2004? 2? anyway it doesn't sound like it could have been recorded in any other decade of jazz imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_IZLXMPCNA

like, jazz's role in popular culture and the larger population's perception of it is COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the actual music known as jazz

what is "electronic" music

great thread

what is "electronic" music

music made with electrons

Prefer the positronic music of I, Robot.

atomic music is much bigger iirc

If they're actually popular they're all evolving in one way or another.

PROGRESSIVE HOUSE!?!?!?...?...?

god i kid

crabcore is the only true genre fuiud

As long as r & b has value to black people, it has a future. So does jazz or even blues. Black people's music is often hampered by economic concerns and the apathy of white dollars, these are not creative limitations.

Uh

I think he means... oh shit I read a great quote about money and music a few weeks ago that would stick out beautifully right now... something about how music always outlives money... something something... damn I forgot it.

Well there are entire books about the flexibility of the r & b genre, you are welcome to have at it. It's a dance / rhythm genre that is endlessly adaptable.

I think I might just have been reading that weird due to her incredibly batshit statements on the other thread. It came off a lot worse in my head than it does re-reading it. Still not convinced it's framed in the right way, mind you.

I care about you, emily, I really do. See, I am a real person and I am concerned about your inability to take perfectly reasonable observations about something that is pretty important to black people seriously.

When you treat me as a real person talking to a real person and present your credentials to me regarding this topic, your tired "batshit" commentary will wound my college-educated and literate brain.

A trollish thread, it is mentally ill of you to take my comments on some other trollish thread where half the stories aren't even true seriously. Also my college degree will determine my batshitness, not some anonymous coward who is too chickenshit to discuss stuff like a human being.

uh

wtf

my college degree will determine my batshitness,

hearing this as a Metallica lyric

uh

ha

it's like p diddy is ad libbing in the background of this thread

college degree generally confirms batshitness, not refutes it

Release the bats!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBIKiBC7zSI

Genres don't need to evolve.

Never change a winning team.

true, George Mikan is having a hell of a year for the Lakers

Mind you, not all teams are winning.

Hip-hop and heavy metal were not "winning" to beging with, so no wonder they needed evolution to a larger extent than the winning pop/rock genres. Not that they have gotten any better through (heavy metal has actually gotten worse and worse and worse all the time throughout its history)

I mean, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Uriah Heep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today's extreme metal.

Geir never evolves

he devolves

geir otm. about everything. forever. its easier that way.

y'know I was thinking the other day that ILM should make a tribute album for geir - lyrics made up of geir posts, compositions ranging from music hall psychedelia to all-out prog, maybe a pseudo-classical piece or too. also some rapping of classic geir posts would probably be good.

we could call it "Music for the Man on the Street"

Geir you often tell ilx what "kids" all over the world are doing, I thought you would know

"Kids" is just a metaphore for all the stupid single buying hitlist fans out there. They actually have better taste now, digging Rihanna and Lady Gaga, than they did 15-20 years ago, digging 2 Unlimited and MC Hammer.

oops wrong thread

geir i used to think you were 2 legit, now i'm not so sure

lol

what is "electronic" music?

a genre that is evolving.

a genre that is winning

Winning!

http://www.themusicninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Duck-Sauce-Charlie-Sheen-Spinstyles-Bi-Winning-Edit.jpg

if only there was some electronic music out there besides Chromeo that ilxor could listen to

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:00 AM (Yesterday)

-VS-

I still love this album [Moby's Play]. I think part of the reason that its fallen out of favor a little is because the songs were just EVERYWHERE--movies, ads, etc--between 1999-2001, which really anchors the album to a time period

― ronan's revenge (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, March 25, 2011 8:43 AM (2 hours ago)

i mean sure, it's presumably a step up from Chromeo (who i still haven't heard) -- just sayin'

forced 'zings' like that are why no-one takes the beef between you two at all seriously -- just sayin'

i dont think we really have 'beef' tbh - more like playful ribbing?

playful ribbing for no one's pleasure

haha, that tickled me

might wanna rephrase that

Mmmm, beef ribs

Did not know about this beef. Maybe this thread can function as a clustersum thread, if nothing else.