Somebody please explain the appeal of Peter Hook please

(he is a frustrated pop-synth player surely?)

"We saw the Sex Pistols at the Feee Trade Hall. They were terrible!! We wanted to be up on that stage and be terrible too!!" I wuv em but they were/are the apotheosis of anti-technique DIY surely?

but yeah, the total rehabilitation of synth since the 70s renders the qualification an unclarification - how unlike me, heh!!

I don't know, just take yourself back to whenever it was and imagine hearing "She's lost control" being played for the first time, that minimalist industrial drum beat coupled with the weirdest unnatural but most ass kicking bass line you've ever heard. Bleak, punk music you could shake your hips to, originality created from despair.

Sure he should have developed his style and I'd rather listen to "Lessons in Love" by Level 42 that hear yet another Hook bass intro to another crap New Order song, but Hook fucked shit up with New Order.

Joy Division are one of the ONLY people in the entire rock genre where one can listen to ALL the lines - bass, vocal, guitar, drums - as equally interesting melodies (or perhaps syncopations) around a central beat. The best jazz and the best classical only occasionaly does this.

The fact that thes four lads did such great things out of a mixture of 'get up and do it' naivety and 'I want to be heard too' egotism, rather than musical education, only makes the achievement more extraordinary.

That's why Hooky is so great.

'Maybe Hook was playing like a guitarist because Bernie was playing like a bassist?'

Nice one.
Brilliant. I've ale

I praised Hook on the "influence" thread because of how that guitar or bass sound has formed the basis for so much stuff I enjoy. It's perhaps personal, but I really can't escape it: with something like "ICBM" on the first New Order record I could listen to that punching two-chord switch for hours.

Err it sort of strips all of the "natural" "this is a bass guitar" sounds out of the bass, and leaves you with something more like "this is a bass part for any occasion."

In an era populated by the likes of Level 42's Mark King and his sterile "i'm a great bass player, in fact i'm brilliant" fingerobatics, it was refreshing (for me anyways) to have Hooky up there banging it out, a nice simple melody that drives the tune along.

Bless his stubbly, sullen heart.

Dave: I don't know that people actually idolize Hook as a good player. Do they? I'm under no illusion that there was anything personally brilliant or masterful about Hook himself -- he's just the flag-waver for a particular style that I'm really really fond of. (Hence my tagging him on the "influence" thread: it can be Robert Smith playing it on 6-string bass or the Jesus and Mary Chain with their Hooky guitar solos or even the high-end bass part from Ned's Atomic Dustbin -- I just like the sound of it.)

if you listen to lead guitar work done outside the mainstream (and indeed even some of that) in the past twenty years a lot of it has the spectre of peter hook (and less obviously barney as well) hanging over it. his somewhat wonky phrasing inadvertently shifted the way of things from led-zeppelin-blues-based-pentatonic-wank to seven note scale stuff (proper major and minor scales). this style has pervaded the indie rock genre (and all those other things like post rock)and by the way, it's one of the main reasons you can tell mogwai from creed.

Hook’s work in Joy Division is superior to that of New Order. Why? Cuz in Joy Division it was still fresh, with New Order it became somewhat...old. There is still some great NO tracks though, “Lets Go”, “Age Of Consent”, “Johnny 1964”.

incidentally this kind of bass playing came to manchester via PERE UBU (tho whoever it was pointed out j.j.burnel's role in paternity had a not-bad point also) (chris squire also likes the high frets)

And I do think this is sort of a burning question: there's been so much effort put into distinctive or signature guitar sounds over the past two decades, but not very much on the bass end. Obviously the role of the bass in your average four-piece band makes it a lot harder to futz with, but you'd think there'd have been more invention going on with it.

oh god please give me a break. do people cry about alternate tunings, too?

mark you're earlier comment abt synths had me sputtering but this one - oh yes.
I started to think about chris squire while reading this thread: I still find his 70's solo album very listenable in places - and I've played it in the background whilst in the company of a Prog-Hating Burnel/Hooky bass fans (bass players in fact)- and they've been mortified after expressing interest/liking it haha

Dave q could you mention some bands/songs which have bass playing you really like - who's Rick Fletcher?
What's the position on the Stanley Clarke/Return To Forever type of bass-playing: too much like a guitarist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkYveRd5DwU

well i chuckled

i loved it too.

Lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaKgaxQCac0

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2010/08/13/peter-hook-unknown-pleasures-tour-dates-the-light/

when I first hear about this I said "no way" but the video is kind of compelling. tribute band no doubt, but still.

I'm glad, in retrospect, that I did get to see New Order do a lot of JD material during their final tour.

peter hook is punk fucking rock.

Too bad we can't really say this in 2010, can we?

(Also, dave q is/was brilliant.)

where is he these days

Heard this for the first time in a while this morning and thought it really sounded like a Joy Division track. Except in a major key. The bass intro and the tone of the bass, the treatment on the drums, the way the guitar fills in like a keyboard, Natalie's phrasing, the whole thing is very JD-influenced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CI7IuB8ZUY

"so there's no sustain and no bottom end"

people can hate whatevs they want, but this is kinda glaring to me. no bottom end? in joy division songs?

TREMBLE OR BASS: YOU DECIDE

invented by Peter Hook, perfected by Naomi Yang

I saw Peter Hook doing Unknown Pleasures a few weeks ago. It was pretty boring tbh.

ok so maybe I won't go

ctrl + f roxy

finally hear freebass, and was immediately struck by 2 things

(a) it's probably the least new ordery-sounding thing any of NO have been involved in, and
(b) it's substantially better than bad lieutenant

don't nec take either of those as a recommendation however

heard

somebody kill this man please

http://www.nme.com/news/joy-division/53987

Heaven knows it's got to be this time.

what the fuck is wrong with this guy? what motivates a dude to fuck with his legacy so badly? this is bullshit.

there needs to be some sort of secure unit for the members of any manchester indie band 78-92 except maybe MES who gets out on day release now and then

― Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 14:31 (2 months ago)

idk, re-recording Joy Div songs with Rowetta somehow feels less damaging to anyone's legacy than the Freebass or Bad Lieutenant albums

man I disagree. you can do great stuff and then later do less great stuff. david bowie. lou reed. any number of country dudes. but to go back and fuck up the shit you did that made your rep, which is I will stake 5 bucks on the proposition exactly what this will sound like, that is willfully trading your rep for an advance. and the advance can't even be that big. what a fucking asshole.

I actually agree New Order would have sounded better without his strange way of bass playing. But you cannot take away from him that he is an original and nobody else plays quite like him.

wait who do you agree with? hook makes new order. it's just that he's being a cunt now.

i agree with geir, new order would have been far better if they'd kept the nazi shtick and recruited the bassist from phish

Oh, Geir. You're such a CARD.

btw - this news is crazy.

I doubt there is an advance at all! he's said that he started doing the cover band just bcz he got a bug up his leather trews about it after a council-sponsored one-off fell through, it def wasn't for cash to begin with.

yeah I'm sure it will be underwhelming at best and likely horrible, just like the cover band with him singing and his kid on bass is, but a) he really hasn't done anything non-embarrassing this decade (or rarely EVER when left to his own devices), this is nothing new and b) I feel like it's his own legacy to fuck up. kill yr idols. ignore the fat old man in the corner.

btw - this news is crazy.

crazy, yet somehow very predictable...

this guy makes pretty much every other band's reunion and cash-in in the last ~5 years look like a stand-up move

what the fuck is wrong with this guy? what motivates a dude to fuck with his legacy so badly? this is bullshit.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$££££££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$£££££££££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$$44444

Hang on, this seems totall arse about, smeone's made a rubik's cube of this story.

alt: Rowetta wants to do an ep of Joy Division cover versions, and has asked PHook to play on it.

That's it. It's not JD Revisited, clearly.

Unless it is...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$££££££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$£££££££££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$$44444

Oh yeah, gonna make him a millionaire.

Probably not, but I guess it makes him more money than doing nothing, and he has probably run out of new song ideas.

He had song ideas? When?

(I'm not saying that is fact, just that Bernard, and the 'other two' seemed to have the majority of New Orderish ideas...)

these guys would get MY money if they could just agree to release the leftovers of Waiting for the Sirens Call that were supposed to be released as a separate album.

Well, come the day they all decide they are *Never* going to reunite, then it'll get issued. Probably as an extra on the 'deluxe' issue of WFTSC, like there's not enough unsold copied of that single CD issue.

haven't heard this 'pictures' song, is it on any release?

Bonus track 'Pictures' is an unfinished Joy Division song which Peter Hook has been including in his live set.

so if Hook is the Eric Idle, who is the John Cleese and who is the Michael Palin?

Bernard = Cleese, Stephen = Palin. Obv, really.

Tony Wilson = Chapman

these guys would get MY money if they could just agree to release the leftovers of Waiting for the Sirens Call that were supposed to be released as a separate album.

I think we had most of this stuff rehashed as Bad Lieutenant.

Pictures is supposed to be on some JD rehearsal tape that Hooky unearthed not long ago.

The Rowetta/JD thing is ludicrous, but I can't be arsed to be outraged about it. My money would be on it never seeing the light of day, but if it does I imagine lots of handbag house piano, whooping and a 'Madchester' vibe. A bit like some of the last New Order gigs really.

xp Not Curtis = Chapman? Or is Curtis = Gilliam?

Gillian = Gilliam?

Anyway.

This still makes me laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IMVEjfEAHo

Funny how everyone forgets Terry Jones off the MontPyths...

but if it does I imagine lots of handbag house piano, whooping and a 'Madchester' vibe.

See, I might be interested if that is indeed the case. Handbag House version of Insight seems like an attractive car-crash

xp Not my girlfriend. She thinks he's one of the sexiest men ever.

I was kinda figuring Jonesy for Ian, but I suppose Chapman could work too.

Gilliam = Peter Saville!

I don't see any problem with this.
Everybody else and their brother covers Joy Division, why not an actual member of Joy Division?

Hey I'd be down with you and your brother covering Joy Division.

The funny thing about the Proby cover is that it was actually produced by Hooky...

actually - scrub that last post... hooky produced Proby's cover of Blue Monday...

ugh Owen the problem with this is you're either moving forward or you are boring and old. Throbbing Gristle's reformation was a great example of how to do it if you need to make a little money by invoking past glories while still remaining vital, engaged, excited. A guy re-doing a bunch of stuff he helped write when he was a teenager -- especially a guy who hasn't made any interesting music in God knows how long -- is a guy admitting he's creatively bankrupt. one need not ever grow old artistically; one need only continue to create. but creation means making something new. not standing around trying to get paid for stuff you did better when it was actually new.

You: stating the obvious
I would never describe the guy as a "cunt" though

xp my brother just started a band, they played their first show last week!

well in fairness by all reports pretty much everybody in Joy Division is a total cunt

(Sorry didn't mean that to sound so catty)

I'm just wary of the sacred cow treatment that's been given Joy Division's records
Thinking that an unfair share of the creative responsibility gets given to the dead guys (Hannett, Curtis)
Peter Hook you could describe as creatively bankrupt
And this project does sound shrug-worthy
But I can't think of a single other 'just-a-bassist' who's been so influential?

I'm tired of sacred-cow treatment to, which is exactly what Peter Hook re-doing this is. Milking the sacred cow. I wish everybody would stfu about every damn 80s post-punk band forever, I'm tired of hearing how the music we grew up with was so fucking awesome. Makes everybody sound like a damn baby boomer from a latter boom. Ban the Cure, Joy Division, and Gang of Four imo

Burma can stay as their latter work's as good as their earlier

ugh TOO

badwrongfalsepeter

growing up in the 80s had the opposite impact on me. I'm forever recalling all my friends who insisted that all those post-punk bands I loved couldn't be as great -- musically or compositionally -- as 70s classic rock acts.

(Hannett, Curtis)

leave martin out of this. he deserves his share completely.

section 25's latest record is an example of a band revisiting their old work in an interesting and stylish way. if there was a sliver of a hope hooky could do the same i'd be prepared to listen..

Burma can stay as their latter work's as good as their earlier

― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 25 November 2010 18:07 (3 hours ago)

and wire (nearly as good...)

The only way Hooky can make me care about him again is if he should announce that he and Gillian are shacking up together.

how about he commits seppuku with a trowel in a poundland in suburban manchester?

Let's not get too carried away here. How many acts from the 50's and 60's re-recorded their hits (without their original lineups) for cheapo oldies compilations? Did they all ruin their reputations forever? Hook might be a dumbass, but this doesn't mean anything in the long run. Nobody will even remember this in a year's time.

i don't think it diminishes the quality of the old stuff....it's very easily ignored

it's just this whole period has been commemorated in tedious length via nw england's miserabilist bro culture, and peter hook is the one of worst offenders

Oh dreary me

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/25/peter-hook-joy-division-songs

yr all talking abt the wrong late70s/80s musician called peter

Let's not get too carried away here. How many acts from the 50's and 60's re-recorded their hits (without their original lineups) for cheapo oldies compilations?

how any of these acts had made auterist, album-age works that would compare to unknown pleasures and closer? I mean, don't get me wrong. of all my friends, I'm the one who cares least about Joy Division. I'm sure I could sing about 2/3 of either of those albums from memory, just having sat around listening to them back when we were all discovering them, but I never owned either one. my passions lay elsewhere. but those two records, be that as it may, are sort of monuments to the album age; they are finished works. what Hook is doing compares almost exactly to Lucas fucking with Star Wars; it's assholism. I'll only really think about it onthread; if Nick Cave goes and fucks with the Mutiny! EP, then you'll hear a proper howl of grief. but still. this is just pretty gross.

Ban the Cure, Joy Division, and Gang of Four imo

Burma can stay as their latter work's as good as their earlier

actually they are listed in the right order above!

cure > jd > go4 > burma

also we can talk about "moving forward creatively" all we want, but i'd rather watch peter hook fuck ian's corpse onstage than listen to The Sound The Speed The Light ever again... my god that is a horrible album

yeah but aren't you the kinda guy who if he saw a peter hook project and he didn't play some joy division, you'd be disappointed?

that would probably be a better zing left at 'the kinda guy who would see a peter hook project'

why would i go see a peter hook project in 2010 ever?

xp

i've been listening to a TON of gang of four lately. sounds so great right now.

new order and joy division are and were godly to me, but i stopped paying attention after technique came out and i'm good with that. haven't even heard an album after that and don't really feel a need to. thought The Other Two was possibly the saddest - and kinda funniest - side-project name in history. peter hook can do whatever he wants. i own all the good stuff.

maybe he should do a johnny marr & lend his hand to younger bands, but he probably smells a bit funny

scott i can't believe you haven't at least heard republic, it is secretly one of new order's best albums (even if i'm the only one who'll admit it)

Republic's good, of course it is.

Maybe I should check out this EP, it'd be nice to hear some Joy Division songs with a good singer. Some of them have nice melodies, and Grace Jones already proved they're salvageable with her version of "She's Lost Control".

Is this a Geir sock trolling Tuomas or Tuomas trolling Geir?

???

OMG

Republic is great. Probably the best collection of lyrics from Sumner.

yeah, that's what they all say..

just before they fall?

a part.

Maybe I should check out this EP, it'd be nice to hear some Joy Division songs with a good singer. Some of them have nice melodies, and Grace Jones already proved they're salvageable with her version of "She's Lost Control".

― Tuomas, Friday, November 26, 2010 8:15 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark

killin it

But she called it "I've Lost Control" see what she did there

Hmm...

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/hes-gained-control/Content?oid=5727593

Whoa

http://fuc51.blogspot.com/2010/09/mani-rants-and-we-briefly-oil-creaking.html#more

Mani apologised and deleted the account a few hours later, when he sobered up

Still that rage is extremely palpable

would palp

can only imagine the titanic ego battles involving barney and hooky. its a miracle they stuck around for as long as they did, and got back together even

http://coma-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/The-Light-1102-2011-EP-Cover-Art-Released-Monday-9th-May-Joint-Copyright-James-Chadderton-Peter-Hook-Medium-Smaller.jpg

from TishTash @ Magiska

1102 / 2011 the debut EP from Peter Hook’s The Light which was originally scheduled for release on Monday 9th May 2011 and was held up due to “unspecified legal issues” is now set to be released on Monday 16th of May. The EP features the first recording of a previously unfinished Joy Division track “Pictures In My Mind” with vocals by Peter Hook and three tracks which highlight Rowetta’s unique vocal treatments of “Insight”, “New Dawn Fades” and “Atmosphere”.

Here is the official press release from Peter Hook, Rowetta, The Light & Hacienda Records:

With all matters now fully resolved, Hacienda Records is pleased to finally announce the release of The Light’s “1102 / 2011” EP this coming Monday 16th May at 9am, here at www.fac51thehacienda.com.

Although videos for “Pictures In My Mind”, The Light’s version of the unreleased Joy Division track and the Rowetta sung “Atmosphere” have already been released, both Rowetta’s versions of “New Dawn Fades” and “Insight” have been held back for the EP release and will not have been heard elsewhere prior to Monday 16th May.

Thank you for your support. We hope you will enjoy The Light’s “1102 / 2011” EP.

While the release has been announced, there has been no disclosure as to why the original release date was not met nor what steps were taking to secure the upcoming date. Therefore this publication sees no reason why we should change from our original position that we will not speculate on what occurred between any parties involved.

Peter Hook has come under some intense criticism by those claiming he is “cashing in” on the legacy of Joy Division and Ian Curtis. In a previous feature COMA Music Magazine took the position that while yes, these songs are part of Ian Curtis’s and Joy Division’s legacy, they are also part of Peter Hook’s legacy and he has the right to that work just as much as anyone else.

Ultimately, it really isn’t anyone’s business except those immediately involved who also share that legacy. This writer wonders how this would be different if it was someone not so close to the original source covering these songs. If some unknown act out of the UK or United States chose to promote themselves with the songs on this EP would they be treated differently?

The original press release from Hacienda Records follows:

Peter Hook And The Light features Peter Hook on vocals and bass, Jack Bates on bass, Nat Wason on guitar, Andy Poole on keyboards and Paul Kehoe on drums. Rowetta performs as guest vocalist at selected gigs.

In revisiting “Closer”, whose haunting austere atmosphere and emotive content is considered a “start to finish masterpiece”* (Pitchfork Media), both concerts will see The Light respectfully reproduce the highly esteemed album for the Joy Division fans and faithful. With Martin Hannett’s incandescent production running throughout “Closer” and allied to a band that had developed in stature and confidence since their debut “Unknown Pleasures”, the album came to yield many classic Joy Division tracks including “Atrocity Exhibition, “Heart And Soul” and “Twenty Four Hours”. The Light’s performance of “Closer” on the evening is also being recorded by Ronnie Lane’s mobile recording studio for a vinyl only release later in 2011. Both the May 18th and May 19th Closer gigs continue the same charities involved in last year’s event, Mind and The Keith Bennett Appeal.

Peter Hook’s The Light feat. Rowetta – “1102 / 2011″ 4 Track EP

Released digitally Monday 16th May 2011 on Haçienda Records.

1 “Atmosphere” (vocals by Rowetta)
2. ″Insight”, (vocals by Rowetta)
3. ”New Dawn Fades” (vocals by Rowetta)
4. “Pictures In My Mind” (vocals by Peter Hook)
www.fac51thehacienda.com / www.peterhook.co.uk

there's balls & then there's balls & then there's reaching way up past the prostate to assert you've got an "unfinished joy division track" back there

peter hook tried to sue me recently

I got into a fistfight with Peter Hook once, in front of a club. About five years later, I found myself sitting at a picnic table "backstage" at an outdoor venue. He was eating fried chicken from KFC, and offered me a piece (rather kindly, in fact.) I took up his offer and said, "You'll never remember, but we got in a scuffle years ago." He silently stared at me for about twenty seconds, then named the very venue where the fight had occurred (which was in an entirely different city.) We laughed and shook hands. I was impressed by him after that!

Peter Hook is a person.

To him, Joy Division is a band he was in.

To you, JD is an untouchable godstone. TO him, it's something he possibly feels "ach, that bit's wrong, that bit should have been louder, and this song was done better at Marshmallow studios" etc.

I met him once, seems a nice bloke.

His book is a good read, and if he wants to do new versions of the songs with the Cheeky Girls, it's entirely up to him. If it spoils the originals, well they can't have been that good to be so fragile in the first place, ay?

Blimey, the 'dislike' in the first bunch of posts, hadn't read it before...

Transmission bassline, just a throbbing pulse, and so easy to copy. Revolutionary and still punk.

abs.

man, pictures in my mind is horrendous.

To you, JD is an untouchable godstone. TO him, it's something he possibly feels "ach, that bit's wrong, that bit should have been louder, and this song was done better at Marshmallow studios" etc.

To me, JD is a band I like about 1/2 as much as everybody else I know likes them. Hook isn't doing tweaks to the material to make it sound better, he's just farting around with it for money. I haven't listened to a Joy Division record since the early nineties & am only irritated on principle here, people should write new songs or get the fuck outta the business imo.

People *are* writing new songs, go to them and ignore Peter Hook.

e.g. I see "From the Jam" have made a new single, it is a new song, still ignoring it but you know, good luck to them.

https://i.imgur.com/JLo6Rry.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QEQ6aNF.jpg

lol @ Amos lee >>>>> dylan

Ha!

I get why it's not cool, but what the heck is a rock musician in his 60s going to do? If Hook played his own stuff, he literally would not be able to tour in any big way at this point. Doing the JD stuff, he's gotten to play shows all over the place with his son. I'm sure that's a big thing for them.

Maybe this all seems less fun as Nick Mason going out and doing early Floyd, hard to tell.

The Doors all said they had fun doing their shows. It wasn't like Jimbo was coming back.

From the Jam pretty good actually

xp a later tweet mentions that the new order show was circa 1982

From the Jam pretty good actually

take it to Tribute bands featuring original members

I'm glad I've never seen this thread before (that I remember). The premise is maddening.

To be fair it's not his bass-playing style or the fact he plays in a JD covers band that makes Hooky an arsehole, it's when he does shit like trying to flog "memorabilia" that was never his to sell in the first place(including Ian's letters to Annik that Deborah Curtis wanted to be kept private), tries to belittle Gillian's role in NO(he claims she did nothing in the band, blatantly not true) and accuses his late ex-wife of being a psychotic man-beater, stuff like that.

Rick Finch, now there was a bass player.

He was, but a terrible human being:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/dec/08/former-kc-sunshine-band-star