Is the Stone Roses debut really as good as is claimed?

I do like 'I wanna be adored' and 'I am the resurrection' but I wouldn't mind if the rest of the record had never existed.

The last time I played it (probably about a year ago) it did strike me as pretty patchy. I think Pills Thrills and Bellyaches has aged much better.

So I guess what I'm asking our British constituency is, why? Not asking if you PERSONALLY feel this way, but rather if there is some reasonable explanation for it, something surrounding them at the time, a la Oasis's boasting, the Manics' early press rush, the Spice Girls...well, tits, I guess. But SOMETHING that would explain why the debut album was treated and anticipated as a monumental release. I'm just curious because I've never seen an explanation and god forbid you ask a fan of the band (particularly Squire's fans) to explain it, because you'll never get beyond, "They rock! They're the best! Woo!"

Oh, and John Squire is the most absolute dud that ever existed in rock music.

I think a lot of the guitar playing on that record is quite inspired. Squire took your average chords and spiced them up a good deal with cool overdubs and interesting sounds. The John Leckie production is probablly the thing that doesn't age well for a lot of people. Its pretty "soft" and compressed. Subdued, I would say. Its immediately dating when you listen to it now. But the songwriting is nice and simple and catchy. Not every tune is amazing, but every one has some seriously redeeming qualities. Probablly the best overall quality of the album is that its well bookended. The best songs are in the beginning and at the end. The middle is a bit of fluff, but by the time "Resurrection" and "Fools GOld" play out, you've forgotten about the bathroom break that you took in the middle.

Either way, its definitely in my top 100. Probablly top 10.

And his hair!

I love the album because I saw it as real "Fuck you lot - I'm making a classic album" to the naval-gazing, mutually masturbating British indie scene of the time. God that swagger seemed attractive once.

DG - at the time the NME famously gave it a puzzled 7/10, mentioning that there were all these people in Manchester calling it the best album ever made. It took a while to take off and then 'Fools Gold' came out and everything went mad. It really did seem a word-of-mouth thing at first.

ha ha, the editorial policy with the NME for new, unknown records on indie labels is that unless a big gun is on to a record (Live Editor, Features Editor) or more than 8-10 journos vocally love it, whoever is reviewing the record is not allowedto give it more than 7/10, no matter whether they think it's the best album of all time. True!

Anyway, on to the album. I love it, despite the less-than-great production. The tension between the great melodies and the swaggering thuggish undercurrent of the lyrics is one of the great attractions for me. Great guitar playing - rhythmic, fluid and imaginative.

I agree that "Fools Gold" isn't much good, it sounds like a rehearsal- room idea slammed down on tape and released as is. As an indicator of Stone Roses' worth it's a red herring.

"Second Coming" works for me - the thunderous production does amazing things for the guitar and drums. The songs aren't as good though.

2. Naturally, I like weedy Byrds cover bands better than baggy shambling funky ones. That famous TotP was, from my POV, one of those awful musical experiences you never forget.

3. I never even heard this record till 1995; having nearly bought it, but not bought it, in spring 1989. Maybe many things would have been different for me if I'd bought it then.

4. I find it peculiarly enjoyable: just very easy to listen to, very unproblematic, one good pop track after another.

5. On the other hand, it was and is overrated - that much seems clear. When did it *start* to get overrated? That's a hard one to answer. Certainly it had this position by the mid-90s. But come to think of it, the overrating was clearly in place by the time of that woeful totp performance.

Anyway, Ally I just don't see how you could call Squire's playing on that album unoriginal or wanky or whatever. THe second album yes, is VERY wanky, but being a guitar player and listening to the first album, it seems obvious that Squire is a guy of average skill constructing sounds in a very original manner. I don't know what has happened to him since though. Mostly suck central. Maybe if I had heard the second SR record or the Seahorses first, I would feel differently about the first SR record, but at the time it came out, nobody played like the way that first album sounded.

I don't think they just repeated what people did before them. I agree with Dr. C here: "The tension between the great melodies and the swaggering thuggish undercurrent of the lyrics is one of the great attractions for me." Comparing the first album to the songs that came out on the singles is interesting cos then the awed, almost reverential, out-of-nowhere feeling on the album is evident. (Sorry I'm so bad at expressing what I mean.) The songs on the singles are brash and in love with life.

Finally, I think John Squire is inspiring. I read in an interview how he got off drugs. He decided to go cycling in the evenings instead and just worked at it. And the way he described it was so matter-of-fact. I like his hair, too.

There's a separate page that's the supposed core one:

http://welcome.to/onelovestory

...but that seems out of commission. So try this:

http://www .adamg.demon.co.uk/roses/onelovestory.html

I am not responsible for anyone dying from laughter from all this. He's all over the newly available Usenet archives at Google if you really want to look, and boy, do I have stories. As Ally had Ron Traino, I had Burnweed. Great.

His home page.

His Spice Girls page.

Spot the connections if you can.

Patrick: I'll give you the scoop. Ron Traino is an internet nutter of the first degree, who is obsessed with the Spice Girls. He also became rather bizzarely obsessed with me, first becoming convinced I WAS Geri Spice, and then deciding he hated me because I was NOT Geri Spice, despite me never actually claiming to BE Geri Spice. He has sent me loads of pornographic emails, and creepy stuff detailing weird death fantasies he's had about each Spice Girl - which "tormented" him because he really LOVED the Spice Girls and didn't want to kill them. Riiiiight. I was on a crappy college mail server at the time and I couldn't block him because it had no block, so I was at the mercy of him.

He is also a rather obsessive Catholic, who believes any non- Catholic, meaning someone who doesn't follow his specific rules, is going to hell. And he is like 35 or 40 and lives in his parent's basement. Which is odd. In case you didn't know.

But back to the Stone Roses! That story is FUCKED UP, I remember that shit. The person used to post it to the Oasis newsgroup and the Manics newsgroup ALL THE TIME.

I think the utterly snoozeworthy middle section completely knocks this album out of contention for classic status. I really like it up through "Don't Stop", then I skip ahead to "I Am The Resurrection".

One thing about "Fool's Gold" that I think is cool is how it's based on a 10-beat drum loop. You get these weird phase shifts in where the strong beats of the loop fall because the song itself is in strict 4/4 over it. Lovely stuff, IMO.

And if I haven't mentioned it, the Seahorses were stank.

Anyhow, here's a question: the topic of the Seahorses tainting Squires legacy has come up a few times, but what of those of us who thought he was crap before the Seahorses?

A: Heard "Second Coming" first.

B: Heard "The Stone Roses" first in about 1995. By that time, the onslaught of Squire imitators (read: Oasis and their ilk) was so deafening that even the "real thing" might not be discernable from the din. By that time, even I had tuned out my ears to it.

But anyway, Stone Roses first album. I remember hearing it for the first time, soon after it came out, when my music scene was drowning in a sea of goth-industrio-techno-bollocks and it really did just shock and amaze me. How could something so simple be so amazing, and something to retro be so fresh?

Melodically and harmonically, it's beautiful, the guitarwork is perfectly balanced between naive psychedelic haze and blazing technique (clearly, Squire went well off the wrong end of that balance later) but it is simply the amazing BASS on that album that renders it forever a total CLASSIC.

The cult of the Stone Roses, Madchester, the next album and the collection awfulness of the solo output, the whole Manchester Oasis Britshit that followed... none of this can taint the fresh, startling effect that hearing that album for the first time had on me. Och, you just had to be there. Reading about it must be like seeing a butterfly preserved in a formaldehyde jar and wondering what the hype was about.

I'll agree on the bass, by the way. But surely the way the bass sounds is tantamount to the album being seen in some quarters as 'goth bollocks,' including the members themselves. ;-)

I mean, I can sit here and assume all people who are propping John Squire are idiots who are unfamiliar with X, Y, and Z but it wouldn't necessarily be true, and I doubt you'd like it if I said it.

C: Your ears are "made of stone". (Hahahahahaa.... sorry, I couldn't resist! ;)

I love the way the record has started appearing in lists of the top ten albums of all time; it's like a victory for my generation over the boomers.

And keep in mind I actually like the album. ;-)

MELODY MAKER touted roses as incorporating there love of ACiEED (the music ) with guitars - so i bought it - IPC you owe me !

mind they also said the beyond were the future of rock - 'cubist metal' where iz you now ?

You lot are a waste of bandwidth.

Roses rule.

Fuck off.

In one word ...... YES!!!!!!

Seriously though, I still think it is a good album and it would be in my top 100 but fairly far down.

Personal favourite - Sugar Spun Sister. Is this part of the weak middle that many of you are talking about?

Sorry to detract away from the subject of the board, but I just thought I'd ask.

-Punks, you gotta ask yourself a question - have u even been to madchester??

Okay, I like "Fool's Gold" a lot, but the above phrase would never occur to me when describing it unless I was saying something like "I really like 'Fool's Gold', even though it does have innovative and original chords."

Does that mean that, like him, you are currently wandering around stinky, unshaven and in desperate need of lying down and doing nothing for a good long while?

So, to answer the question--no, probably not as good as claimed, but still worth a listen.

And I heard it in mid 94ish, well after the hype. It just sounded... classic.

http://www.schizofunaddict.com

and Ned Ragget never got the joke. Fascist MF.

oh, well we might as well give up now then. Moderator, lock the Internet, it's all over.

I'm surprised Silvertone didn't choose to remaster and rerelease all the early stuff last year, the debut, Turns Into Stone etcetera (I wouldn't be surprised if they remastered and rereleased the bloody singles!). They've never missed an opportunity to sponge off the Roses before, and the Very Best Of compilation looked like being the start of a reissue process.

X-post; Yes. You must be insane!

Ha ha. True. See, if they had a remix by Junior Senior with b/up vocals by Beyonce and production by NERD but remained the same - different story. ha ha.

Anyways did you hear the news - INDIE is back in fashion!

On the contrary, what bugs a lot of people is that this album of bland, innocuous indie-pap is treated as if it's a work of genius. In lists of most overrated albums of all time this is Top 5.

she bangs the drums video is really good, i think it gets at what they were about

http://www.pausehere.co.uk/PauseHere/features/onelovestorytoo.html

So i loved it for about six months until One Love, which I thought was shite and I stopped caring and started listening to MBV or something.

Crossing threads slightly I think it's safe to say the Roses liked the Monkees more than the Beatles - this should forever put them above those other retro-chancers from Manchester.

but were stone roses as good as sleeper?

i'm listening to jeff mueller. he's my new favourite band.

Haha! A well deserved fate.

They were cool as all hell, and it does not surprise me Ned
doesn't like them.

Hm...

I had the advantage of not actually hearing the darn thing until the middle of 1992, at which point we were all grunge (weren't we?). Anyway, I had
recently discovered the Chameleons before that, and while the connection isn't exact, I heard the Stone Roses through that particular filter and thought,
"Hm, semi-dreamy semi-gothy stuff, sounds good to me!" I barely knew any Byrds at the time, of course, but now that I do -- well, I still feel more apt
to pull out the Stone Roses anyway, when I do.

Yes, I clearly hate them.

you lied to me!!!

No.

YES YES MOTHERFUCKING YES!!!!!!

The Stone Roses is the greatest album of all time.

I thought the album was damn good when i bought it in the early 90s sometime. Liked the Mondays too. Never got most of the other bands charlatans ect. Loved Ride though.

Of course, it goes both ways, and that's why tons of Americans worshipped the Grateful Dead and their whole "transcendtal rock concert" thing, but nobody outside of America cared fuck-all about them.

He's only posted 22 times here!

Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.
Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice.

in response to the thread title: every bit as good, and then some.

I've still got my tape deck, I warn you. I still have this album on my cassette. And I've hooked it up to my stereo. No lie.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOT TO GET DOWN WITH THE PARTY

And all people who care about Rolling Stones but not Stone Roses can just lick their own arses.

She Bangs the Drums confirmed for Guitar Hero III

sweet.

It's an okay album--not nearly as good as the most average hip hop from the same year though.

huh

HOLY FUCK i'm buying a ps2 to get guitar hero 3

except it's a cover and not the original track. boo.

well rubbish

No.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,,1240034,00.html

Good grief the piffle you come across when you're trying to find a jpeg of that awesome picture of the (very) early Roses looking like daft goths in a chuchyard. Third paragraph particularly unthinking nonsense, although almost every single sentence has been written dozens of times before in various places. Not least by me in my old fanzine when I was 17.

Finally

The Stone Roses' 1989 self-titled album, a record that's often heralded as one of the greatest debut albums of all time, is set for a major resurrection this summer. On August 11, Silvertone/Legacy will deliver a deluxe 20th anniversary reissue of The Stone Roses in three different packages.

First, there's a single CD "Special Edition" containing the original album, remastered by Stone Roses frontman Ian Brown and producer John Leckie. It contains the original album as well as with the full-length version of "Fools Gold". Then there's a 2xCD plus DVD "Legacy Edition" containing the original album plus a bonus disc of demos plus the Live in Blackpool concert film, shot in 1989.

Finally, there's the mammoth "Collectors Edition", containing everything in the "Legacy Edition" as well as three LPs containing the original album and 13 non-album tracks. Oh, and a 2 GB USB drive shaped like a lemon (you know, like the album cover) containing "all the audio, promo videos, ringtones, wallpapers, plus previously unseen John Leckie home video footage of the recording of "Fool's Gold'," according to a press release. Not to mention a book featuring photos and musings from the band and their cohort as well as people like Noel Gallagher and Mark Ronson. and six art prints painted by guitarist John Squire for the covers of the album's singles.

Tracklists for each disc listed below:

The Stone Roses:

01 I Wanna Be Adored
02 She Bangs the Drums
03 Waterfall
04 Don't Stop
05 Bye Bye Bad Man
06 Elizabeth My Dear
07 (Song for My) Sugar Spun Sister
08 Made of Stone
09 Shoot You Down
10 This Is the One
11 I Am the Resurrection
12 Fools Gold

The Lost Demos:

01 I Wanna Be Adored
02 She Bangs the Drums
03 Waterfall
04 Bye Bye Badman
05 Sugar Spun Sister
06 Shoot You Down (1 version)
07 This Is the One
08 I Am Resurrection
09 Elephant Stone
10 Going Down
11 Mersey Paradise
12 Where Angels Play
13 Something's Burning
14 One Love
15 Pearl Bastard

The B-Sides & Non Album Singles:

01 Elephant Stone
02 Full Fathom Five
03 The Hardest Thing
04 Going Down
05 Guernica
06 Mersey Paradise
07 Standing Here
08 Simone
09 Fools Gold
10 What the World Is Waiting For
11 One Love (Full Length)
12 Something's Burning (Full Length)
13 Where Angels Play

i never feel the US/UK cultural divide more than when the Stone Roses are discussed with hushed tones of awe

back to the original question:
no.

Pearl bastard sounds good

It's still a nice album.

"made of stone" is still a great song

It's gonna be a treat hearing Ian Brown's vocals on those demos.

this band had a couple of excellent singles but the rest of the time they were about as good as kula shaker

you could say the same about kula shaker

Need those b-sides. Just for rematsered versions of Standing Here and Somethings Burning.

Hmm...wonder if Pearl Bastard is any good or not.

Doubtless, many purists will scream about Fools Gold being tacked on to the original album, though.

Looks like the ultimate version this.

I am happy to see they will not include "Elephant Stone" right in the middle of the album now, like they did on one mid 90s version of the album. Nothing wrong with the song, but bonus tracks should be put at the end, not in the middle of the sequence.
Plus "The Stone Roses" isn't actually very much of a "baggy" album, and those "baggy tracks" are better left outside the sequence. I have no problem with "Fools Gold" at the end of the first disk though, because you can just stop after "I Am The Resurrection" if you don't want a track added after the mighty finale.

mighty finale

Superb

Geir, what do you think of the backwards songs? Also, how would you feel if maybe they put the bonus songs at the beginning instead?

melody backwards is still melody lol

(don't stop is actually one of the 2 or 3 best tracks on the album imo)

I think they should insert a bonus track into the gap in 'I Am The Resurrection'

They should put the bonus songs on at the same time as the other stuff

x-post lol

lololol

actually gonna buy this

Geir, what do you think of the backwards songs?

There is actually only one backwards song that was part of the album, although I know there was also one on the b-side to "Waterfall". And, well... "Don't Stop" is far from my favourite, but it isn't something I feel a need to skip either. The "chorus" is kinda cool.

But "Made Of Stone" and "Bye Bye Badman" remain the highligths here.

If I have something to complain about regarding the special edition here, I would say it would have been OK to include "Sally Cinnamon" too. Surely, it isn't up there with the later material, but it was the beginning of their typical style, and it was on Silvertone like the later stuff, so there should be no copyright problems.

In answer to the original thread question yes, yes it is.

in the baggy brits stakes i'm more a charlatans dude myself

oh don't get me wrong I <3 the Charlatans too. Saw them a couple years ago and a festival. A++

actually i'm really only into their post-baggy phase. i'm not sure i ever liked that stone roses/happy mondays/early charlatans thing too much for some reason.

Sally Cinnamon was not on Silvertone. It was on Revolver.

better

Yes.

Loudness wars continue.

Tell you what's missing:

"I'm without shoes" and the jamtrack from the extra CD that was with "The Complete Stone Roses" CD.

Mark G., shush. You speak of things I know nothing about.

They should include redemption song

Oh yes, Redemption song makes me very happy. Thanking U.

Pearl Bastard??? That's what the unreleased song is called? Pearl Bastard? LOL

"I really don't think you know that I'm in heaven when you smile"

but When Angels Play, dude, holy living fuck if that isn't the song I'd vote for in a poll! Check out the guitar at the end! "Bang Bang Bang Bang! Driving on the country roads like a mighty boiling sea/the warm red sun gives up and sinks into the trees"

The seeds are sown oooh bang bang pretty pretty bang bang I don't think so nono bang bang bang bang!!!! GUITAR SOLO FROM HEAVEN TAKES OVER THE SONG EVER FOR EVERMORE IF YOU COULD BELIEVE THE ROSES WERE GOING TO TAKE US TO HEAVEN EVEN WITHOUT THE FUNK OF FOOL'S GOLD THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE US THERE ANYWAY

he loves his brother
he'll sell him for a fist full of gold

no I don't believe a word

TAKE ME ANYWAY THE WIND BLOWS

that YOU found, what the world is waiting for
I THINK IT'S IT'S TIME TO GET REAL

ANYTIME YOU WANT IT THEN IT'S THERE
ALL YOU GOTTA DO IS STOP ME ON THE CORNER AND ASK
Say "HEY!"
"You don't live today"
"Stop the world, I'm getting off, I'm getting off"

Okay that's it from me, then, enough from Bimble this evening. People who don't get the Roses...is it just that they're American? Is that the big problem with them? What is it, then? Surely at least 60% of Brits can get what is so brilliant about the Roses?

in the baggy brits stakes i'm more a charlatans dude myself

I would say Stone Roses weren't baggy to the same extent. Surely some of their tracks were. "Elephant Stone", "Fools Gold", "What The World Is Waiting For", "One Love": all baggy obv. But although some of the tracks are a bit funkier than a lot of the stuff they would influence later on (i.e. Britpop), I would say none of the tracks on the original "The Stone Roses" album were really baggy.

I think of baggy as a term used to describe not really the Stone Roses or the Happy Mondays, but the tons of bands that followed in their wake with a similar sound.

This, for example is a bit of a pisstake (although it's easily the best thing the Wonderstuff ever did). The video has them taking the piss, with the drummer wearing a Reni hat. Pity it's not on YouTube.

OTM bimble, Where Angels Play is a holy thing.

More baggy fun:

The Dylans: Planet Love

Northside: My Rising Star

It's just like California in the 1960s, Flowered up: It's On

Doing excellent baggy movements, The High: Box Set Go

(although it's easily the best thing the Wonderstuff ever did).

No, it isn't "Size Of a Cow", which is one of the best indie singles ever, and easily the highlight of everything Wonderstuff ever did :)

But otherwise, you may have a point about baggy. I mean, add Jesus Jones, EMF and even early Blur.

ARRRGH!!! BAGGY HEAVEN RIGHT HERE! Thanks Keith!

Geir is going to have a CONNIPTION WHEN HE GETS THE COLLECTORS EDITION

More baggy:

Still 750% better than Oasis

Stone Roses at their best were just as great as Oasis at their best, however "Fools Gold" is not Stone Roses at their best!

This song, on the other hand.... :)

I might just buy this collector's edition, because I am a Roses whore. Thanks!

If my memory's right, 'Where Angels Play' was a leftover and was never released until Silvertone's first rerelease of the debut - whereupon they pissed it away as the b-side to 'I Wanna Be Adored'. Surely they could've used it better than that?

Where Angels Play always sends me to blubbery putty. Thanking U

No really, Where Angels Play is like the ultimate fucking Roses track. I DIE EVERY TIME EVERY TIME EVERY TIME OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

i feel the same way with 'elephant stone'. it sounds MASSIVE.

He's sexier than Liam Gallagher innit?

No worries my man xp. This bout of nostalgia has also brought to my attention Crimson Tonight, which I didn't know existed - it sounds pretty fine on first listen. They actually evolved into something quite unique by the end.

'Daybreak' is really good here, it lands somewhere between The Doors and Funkadelic (but only when Ian's not singing, they sound like no-one else when he's on)

And we're straight into 'Breaking Into Heaven' - my posh headphones really bring out the bass here, and it's the bass more than anything else that is making me think of Led Zeppelin. But they're not really like Zeppelin at all, in fact the only thing it really reminds me of is some of what The Verve were doing around the same period. Now I'm on 'Driving South', but Squire's guitar is half good (the low half) and half really annoying here, I kind of wish he would sit back a bit and let the rhythm section do their thing. They're really good, but they're fighting against the fact that it's just pastiche

We end on 'Tightrope', which sounds just brilliant, a mix of old American folk and sweet 60s pop with a faint eastern influence somewhere in the background. Ian really hits his stride here, as usual when he doesn't have to try too hard. For a campfire ballad, it sounds quite muscular. You wouldn't have thought they'd wind up here.

Ach, this is all about the wrong album - I'll shut up now.

The Stone Roses debut was as good as is claimed, and is as good as was claimed, but wasn't as good as was claimed, and isn't as good as is claimed, really.

But it wasn't claimed to be very good then... Except maybe by Bob Stanley.

I adored it when I was 15-20. These days... I don't really care. At £100 I shan't be getting the big deluxe box bollocks, even though I'd like the b-sides remastered.

this is a nice album that doesn't deserve most of the backlash/OTT scorn it gets these days. everything after the debut was pretty dismal.

I don't really care. At £100

I'm sure it'll be about 5 quid after a few weeks.

Waterfall.

i'm a little disappointed that the Live in Blackpool video is in there, since it's already on the double UK DVD that came out five or so years back. and that's it? there isn't more roses video footage that could be compiled here?

Nothing watchable.

this is a nice album that doesn't deserve most of the backlash/OTT scorn it gets these days. everything after the debut was pretty dismal.

I loved the first album but I still think it was wildly over rated - the backlash is probably in proportion to the original hyperbole. I thought the Second Coming was pretty good (with a few flat spots) despite it being almost universally panned.

That Jools Holland clip makes me sad. The little place in my heart I keep for the Stone Roses gets a little bit smaller every time I see Ian Brown attempting to sing live.

Listening to Turns Into Stone, probably the best comp of their stuff IMO.

And I agree with Sick Mouthy above, I was obsessed with them until I turned 20 or so, now not so much. They still have the ability to take me back to my teenage years like no other band, though, and for that I'll always love them.

Here’s more information on the Collector’s Edition track listings:

CD1 THE STONE ROSES:
1. I Wanna Be Adored
2. She Bangs The Drums
3. Waterfall
4. Don’t Stop
5. Bye Bye Bad Man
6. Elizabeth My Dear
7. (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister
8. Made Of Stone
9. Shoot You Down
10. This Is The One
11. I Am The Resurrection

CD2 EXTRAS:
1. Elephant Stone
2. Full Fathom Five
3. The Hardest Thing
4. Going Down
5. Guernica
6. Mersey Paradise
7. Standing Here
8. Simone
9. Fools Gold [9.53]
10. What The World Is Waiting For
11. One Love [Full Length]
12. Something’s Burning [Full Length]
13. Where Angels Play

CD3 THE LOST DEMOS:
1. I Wanna Be Adored
2. She Bangs The Drums
3. Waterfall
4. Bye Bye Badman
5. Sugar Spun Sister
6. Shoot You Down
7. This Is The One
8. I Am Resurrection
9. Elephant Stone
10. Going Down
11. Mersey Paradise
12. Where Angels Play
13. Something’s Burning
14. One Love
15. Pearl Bastard [Previously Unreleased]

LP1 THE STONE ROSES:
1. I Wanna Be Adored
2. She Bangs The Drums
3. Waterfall
4. Don’t Stop
5. Bye Bye Bad Man
6. Elizabeth My Dear
7. (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister
8. Made Of Stone
9. Shoot You Down
10. This Is The One
11. I Am The Resurrection

LP2 EXTRAS PART 1:
1. Fool’s Gold 9.53
2. What The World Is Waiting For
3. One Love (Full Length)
4. Something’s Burning (Full Length)
5. Where Angels Play

LP3 EXTRAS PART 2:
1. Elephant Stone
2. Full Fathom Five
3. The Hardest Thing
4. Going Down
5. Guernica
6. Mersey Paradise
7. Standing Here
8. Simone

USB:
1. The Stone Roses: The Stone Roses - 20th Anniversary Re-Master
2. The Stone Roses: The B-Sides & Non Album Singles
3. The Stone Roses: The Lost Demos
4. PREVIOUSLY UNHEARD backwards tracks: Untitled 1, Untitled 2, Untitled 3, Untitled 4, Untitled 5
5. Videos: The Making Of Fools Gold + 5 x promotional single videos
6. Ringtones
7. Wallpapers
8. 48 page digital booklet

http://www.culturedeluxe.com/StoneRosesBoxSet.jpg

john leckie is doing a q&a on gearslutz at the moment if any of you give enough of a toss about the behind the scenes aspects of this album

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-producer-john-leckie/

I get the feeling we're supposed to jack off about those pictures of the box set. That's the idea, right?

PEARL BASTARD NOW, BITCH

Bimble: jacking off about those pictures of the box set, so you don't have to.

hahahahah

REMEMBER ANDY ROURKE OF THE SMITHS PLAYED I AM THE RESURRECTION IN HIS DJ SET SO WE CAN ALL LIVE WITH OURSELVES

And Bass for Badly Drawn Boy.

just heard from our head buyer here at Amoeba that the US domestic release of the Collector's Box is cancelled?!?! WTF?!

please tell me it's some SKU bullshit and they're relisting it soon...cos I can't pay $140 for this!

fuck, that is not good news. not sure if i was going to buy it anyways but was tempted.

So this is out today.

first one to post the 'extra demos'///...

It's had loads of coverage, I'm seeing it everywhere. The Sunday Times had it as their 'essential release' even though the review said the demos are shite and the album itself has three good singles then is filled 'with tosh like Bye Bye Badman'.

Just having a look at this on my way home, noticed they've managed to spell 'Resurrection' wrong on the 'legacy' edition

I just took a closer look at that and realized a large number of people probably aren't going to be able to fit that fucking lemon in any of their USB ports.

Demos are on Spotify. Manage to sound both a) autotuned and b) horribly off.

Remaster is an improvement, definitely. I've not enjoyed listening to it that much in years. Maybe a decade. Shoot You Down was awesome. Just wish the b-sides were available separately from that damn exhibition bollocks box.

It's had loads of coverage, I'm seeing it everywhere. The Sunday Times had it as their 'essential release' even though the review said the demos are shite and the album itself has three good singles then is filled 'with tosh like Bye Bye Badman'.

"Bye Bye Badman" is one of the best songs on the entire album though.

(It got a bit old when Kula Shaker gave it new lyrics, composed a new chorus, and gave no credit to anyone but themselves for it though)

(And called it "Into the Blue")

A; I think you mean Into The Deep.
B; Can anyone confirm or deny that they have the same or similar chord structures / melodies?

Anyone worried about brickwalling, fear not: waveform of Shoot You Down;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Picture2-5.png

Simone, Standing Here, Where Angels Play and Something's Burning all sounding lovely too (I didn't buy that stupid box - downloaded them from iTunes).

just listened today, everything sounds pretty great, including the backwards tracks. the Shoot You Down demo is pretty spectacular as well!!

Is it really true that Secretary of State for Health Andy Burnham wrote the liner notes for this?!

Nick, you really own this thread.

d/l now thanks.

according to Amazon there is going to be a 2CD/DVD of this thing for around $25, will get that and pass on the box set.

I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, Owen...

I think Gilly off Hollyoaks embodies what I don't like about this record. Luckily Americans wont have a clue what I mean.

Pashmina is supremely OTM way upthread where he talks about how musically accomplished The Stone Roses were; none of the bands that cot-tailed them seemed to have anywhere near their level of finesse.

Louis, have you heard any of the b-sides? Some of my favourite Roses songs are their b-sides; Bimble, rest his soul, was totally correct about Where Angels Play. Simone, which is part of Where Angels Play spun backwards and elongated, is also wonderful; the best of the backwards tracks bar Don't Stop, and up there with Eno's ambient / instrumental passages on Another Green World for me in terms of beatific texture. Standing Here also has a great groove and a beautiful, bittersweet coda. Going Down is a great little Byrds / Hendrix tribute with lyrics about oral sex. What The World Is Waiting For was never an absolute favourite of mine, but it's still pretty awesome. And then there's Something's Burning, which is probably their best ever groove, totally spooky, totally liquid.

Really happy with the (bog standard release of) the remaster. I've not enjoyed listening to this band in years, and this has brought back many pleasant experiences and sensations and feelings that I thought had gone. Particularly great moments of he remaster = Don't Stop, which is just awesome, absolutely awesome, gathering up all the details and warmth and revealing a kind of dubbiness to it that I'd not perceived before; and Shoot You Down, with it's stop/start momentum and Ian's naked vocal ("I'd love to do it and you know you've always had it coming") sounding really natural, which is very odd amongst all the reverb and multitracking he's otherwise (rightfully, given his weak pipes) subjected to. Plus John's guitar in that, especially at the end = blissful.

i still love this album, but has anyone ever repackaged and remastered and re-re-re-released such a scant catalog in so many different ways?

Mad thing is, for all the fucking ridiculous re-releases, until the Very Best Of thing in 2002 and this, they never bothered remastering it.

I just really, really, really want the remastered b-sides and non-album singles on one disc that I can go and buy for a tenner. It's nice playing them on headphones or the little Q Acoustics speakers but I wanna stick them through the big stereo next door and get them through the B&Ws.

Anyone worried about brickwalling, fear not: waveform of Shoot You Down;

With a few exceptions, it seems it is more and more usual these days to accept that the early 00s fascination for brickwalling doesn't sound too good.

WELL DONE GEIR.

That repeated strummed intro to Bye Bye Badman slowly pans across the soundstage! Never heard it do that before.

I picked this up today, finally replacing the cassette I bought back in '89 as a callow youth. I just had a listen on some headphones while watching the football, and it does sound utterly gorgeous. It sounds amazing actually. Especially the second side (as was) which is just ice cold solid gold from end to end.

So many great memories tied up with this album, but it sounds so fresh here as well.

Twenty years. Where did all the time go?

Unfortunately we have another month wait for this here in the States, not even up on the U.S. iTunes yet. But all the good word on this thread leaves me anxious.

saw the box at work this week as an import - it's freaking HUGE but completely drool-worthy. $190 price tag will ensure i wait for the domestic, which is supposedly $130. a bit less unreasonable!

So, is the sound *that* much better?

I'd say so, yes.

It's not going to compare with the Beatles remasters when they come out, because the original CDs were horrific and the remasters will have had a lot of money spent on them, and also the Stone Roses debut wasn't, I suspect, all that well recorded in the first place. But I've enjoyed it more than I have in years.

See, I was awaiting the issue of this LP after seeing the Stone Roses on Tony Wilson's "Other side of midnight", even taping it and showing our drummer "This! This is the future" (he didn't see it himself, so once again we were six months behind as opposed to a year ahead la di dah etc)..

.. and wanted "Waterfall" to be a single. Which it was, eventually, as a remixed/retooled edition.

Which I quite liked. Maybe even preferred in isolation, to the LP version (but not in the context of the LP if you get me..)

If the whole LP was remixed/etc like those singles were, that'd be good interesting also. But that's not happened, right?

Nope; it's literally just remastering; a little bit more volume, a little bit more bass, a little bit more detail, a little bit more (obvious) use of space.

.. which is probably better, for an album.

Oh without a shadow of a doubt. Just buy it, dude; however, I'd recommend just going for the basic 1-disc version; the 3-disc adds the live at Blackpool DVD which is readily available elsewhere for pennies, and a CD of demos which are shite. The uber-box has all the b-sides and non-album singles, but it's £100; if you're desperate for the b-sides you can buy individual tracks off iTunes, and I'd hope that they'd get a 1-disc release of their at some stage too (a remastered Turns Into Stone perhaps).

Wait, so did they leave in the vinyl-scratch *glitch* on the fadeout of "Elizabeth My Dear?"

The 3 disc version is £27 in HMV, I mean, eh?

And I do wonder if the big box will turn up in Fopp in 6 months...

Wait, so did they leave in the vinyl-scratch *glitch* on the fadeout of "Elizabeth My Dear?"

That's meant to be a gunshot, though it's always sounded a bit shit. I'm guessing they didn't replace it with an Uzi or something for the remaster? Shame.

The glitch is still there, yes, and definitely is NOT a gunshot; does sound like a vinyil glitch, aye.

A silenced gunshot, indicating the work of a stealthy assassin? I'd assumed it was a flaw on the tape of my cassette, until I bought the CD.

There was a video of them live in '89 on one of the satellite music channels over the weekend, jesus they were fucking shite live weren't they?

The 40 track legacy edition can be downloaded from 7Digital for £7.99 at the moment, if that's of interest to anyone?

http://www.7digital.com/artists/the-stone-roses/the-stone-roses-20th-anniversary-legacy-edition-2

Wow - ILX opinion has turned around on this one, huh?

Oddly, the Legacy edition is £10.99

Buy two copies for £4.99 total!

how?

I actually thought the demos were great in most cases. lots of extended jams ("One Love" is a highlight), and in particular "Shoot You Down" sounded pretty spectacular. i loved 'em, ymmv.

live it seems Ian's inability to stay on pitch is the cause of their live=shite problems...

Having downloaded all the b-sides and AAs, I'm actually tempted to get the stupoid box just because I love these tunes so much; more so than the debut album. Simone and Guernica sound so good.

They make me go all Bimble. I'm sad he missed this.

bump becasue Pitchfork gave this a 10.0 today

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13449-the-stone-roses/

I like the "Best New Music" tag

Is this a remastered version of sorts or just a regular reissue?

Wait, I just read and apparently it's remastered. Anyone heard it?

Scroll up this very thread just a little.

Excellent review.

Wait, so did they leave in the vinyl-scratch *glitch* on the fadeout of "Elizabeth My Dear?"

Always thought that was meant to sound like an archer loosing an arrow. Intentional sound effect.

I thought it sounded like a silenced pistol.

I think they probably left it in because everyone expects to hear it.

I thought it sounded like a silenced pistol.

that's what it's supposed to be. it's a sound effect.

I had a tape of this when I was younger and I remember it sounded like cheesed-out 90s dance beats with guitar pop music over it. But now I tolerate cheesed-out 90s dance beats way more, so maybe I would like it. But my mom maybe threw away my tapes?

i really wanted to buy this so i ordered it through the mail, usually buy all my stuff at Amoeba Hollywood. anyways, i thought the second CD was the B-Sides CD but instead it's The Lost Demos CD. all i really wanted was the remastered B-Sides collection on CD without buying the super deluxe version. so i'm really sad tonight...

I think it's as good as most people say it is. I love the album, would call it a classic, but it certainly isn't in my top 20 albums of all time. There are some weak songs on it, but the first three, I Am the Resurrection, Made of Stone, etc. make up for them.

BeeOK, the 'big box' is available for cheap at the download shop.

It's minus the extra 'backwards' tracks, but that is all.

Or try Spotify even. (i.e. it's definitely there)

You can just buy the remastered b-sides individual from the iTunes store; that's what I did. Hopefully one day they'll see sense and release them as a CD on their own.

well ok the remaster is actually a *~~~revelation~~* to my ears

I recently heard Steve Miller's "Space Cowboy" and realized that it's 100% responsible for the Stone Roses' schtick.

― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:59 AM (3 years ago)

Tried listening to this album today and had to bail out yet again. Three years later, I still stand by the above statement.

The only exception I'll make is for Mani's freakout in the extended version of "Fool's Gold"

it was 2000, and much as i hate slipknot et al, they were a fuckload more interesting than stereophonics or travis.

Then again, music isn't about being "interesting", it's about being nice. And Travis were a lot nicer than Slipknot.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:54 PM (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Still the greatest post of all time.

It's up there.

I'm still not convinced that Geir isn't simply an artificial intelligence program with many bugs that were never worked out.

On the contrary, I think they achieved near perfection with Geir.

I take it the first line was someone else

Yes.

say what you want about tenets of geirbotism, at least it's an ethos

music is about being nice