POLL LOTTA LOVE - ILM Artist Poll #6 - Led Zeppelin

OK, let's start the next one!

http://images.paraorkut.com/img/artists/images/l/led_zeppelin-937.jpg

Rank your top 20 Led Zeppelin tracks. No solo Plant, Plant/Krauss, Page/Plant, The Firm, "It Might Get Loud" soundtrack, none of that mess. Just Led Zeppelin tracks. I'll post an alphabetical list of songs shortly.

normal scoring: 1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28, 6:26, 7:25, 8:24, 9:23, 10:22, 11:21, 12:20, 13:19, 14:18, 15:17, 16:16, 17:15, 18:14, 19:13, 20:12.

Parts 2 and 3, both optional:

2. Include your ranking of Led Zeppelin's five best albums from among the band's 12. (Nine studio albums and three live albums -- The Song Remains the Same, BBC Sessions and How the West Was Won)

3. Send a ranked list of your three MOST HATED Led Zeppelin tracks, with #1 being most hated. The votes from this ballot won't negatively affect the point totals for tracks -- I'll do a separate "most hated" countdown, probably a Top 10.

Send your ballots to me at wmcrump AT gmail.com, or via ILXmail. Deadline is noon Eastern Daylight Time, one week from today -- August 23rd.

Cliffs:
1. Ranked ballot of TWENTY (20) Led Zeppelin tracks
2. Ranked list of FIVE (5) favorite Led Zeppelin albums
3. Ranked list of THREE (3) most-hated Led Zeppelin tracks
4. Deadline in ONE WEEK
5. Enjoy the hot dinosaur rock action!

putting "d'yer mak'er" at no. 1 just to be that guy

Where can I place "Tall Cool One"?

1. Ranked ballot of TWENTY (20) Led Zeppelin tracks
3. Ranked list of THREE (3) most-hated Led Zeppelin tracks

what are the odds Stairway takes both number 1 spots

Totally going to take part in this one!

what are the odds Stairway takes both number 1 spots

pretty high, I'd say

Love Led Zeppelin. Don't think I can get to 20, but their 10 matches up with almost anybody's 10 for me.

http://images.dailyfill.com/fe8741e5f429414c_b88ca6b7c4babb75/o/5.jpg

Achilles' Last Stand
All My Love
Babe I'm Gonna Leave You
Baby Come On Home
Black Country Woman
Black Dog
Black Mountain Side
Bonzo's Montreux
Boogie With Stu
Bring It On Home
Bron Yr Aur Stomp
Bron Yr Aur
Candy Store Rock
Carouselambra
Celebration Day
Communication Breakdown
Custard Pie
Dancing Days
Darlene
Dazed And Confused
Down By The Seaside
D'yer Mak'er
Fool In The Rain
For Your Life
Four Sticks
Friends
Gallows Pole
Going To California
Good Times Bad Times
Hats Off To (Roy) Harper
Heartbreaker
Hey Hey What Can I Do
Hot Dog
Hots On For Nowhere
Houses Of The Holy
How Many More Times
I Can't Quit You Baby
I'm Gonna Crawl
Immigrant Song
In My Time Of Dying
In The Evening
In The Light
Kashmir
Living Loving Maid
Misty Mountain Hop
Moby Dick
Night Flight
Nobody's Fault But Mine
No Quarter
Out On The Tiles
Over the Hills and Far Away
Ozone Baby
Poor Tom
Ramble On
Rock And Roll
Royal Orleans
Sick Again
Since I've Been Loving You
South Bound Suarez
Stairway To Heaven
Tangerine (Page)
Tea For One
Ten Years Gone
Thank You
That's The Way
The Battle Of Evermore
The Crunge
The Lemon Song
The Ocean
The Rain Song
The Rover
The Song Remains The Same
The Wanton Song
Trampled Under Foot
Travelling Riverside Blues
Walter's Walk
We're Gonna Groove
Wearing And Tearing
What Is And What Should Never Be
When The Levee Breaks
White Summer
Whole Lotta Love
You Shook Me
Your Time Is Gonna Come

Being able to keep almost 1/4 of the list feels weird. But there you go.

actually I'll bet Levee takes #1

Can I get a dealwithit gif for Stairway because haters are going to need to be put in their rightful place when it makes top 3.

I don't hate "Stairway", it's a good song, I just never, ever, ever, ever need to hear it again in my lifetime.

whereas I never get bored of "The Rain Song."

mellotron and all

Weirdly enough, my absolute favourite Led Zeppelin would be parts of two songs I won't vote for: the first couple of minutes of "How Many More Times" and the last minute of "The Ocean."

I s'pose I'll relisten to the records for this (it's been a while) but I'm fond of the directness of the debut. Until Houses of the Holy their albums tended to meander & squander their impact, particularly on sides 2.

Rain Song is so so amazing

Joe Perry STILL can't figure it out

As much as I feel like I know the songs backward and forward (did I really buy my first LZ record 32 years ago?), I'm going to relisten to some stuff before I vote.

Done.

Oh fuck, I've missed In My Time Of Dying.

yeah i am re-listening, esp to the first two and the last two. iii through houses are burned into my brain. (and i dont want to load my list down exclusively with sings frim them.)

my phone hates me: singles from them.

the first two are the only ones I never listen to.

phys graf, too, though i rarely listen to it.

Heard Ten Years Gone for the first time in quite a long while the other day. Love that song.

Just gonna submit the track listing of "Physical Graffiti" in order.

Got your ballot, Ismael, but you can redo it if you want. I won't start entering data for a few days.

Don't tempt me. Do it instantly, then look for'ard to the results, that's the way.

Could "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" be treated as one song (as featured on the 1990 boxset)?

I was looking at the song list and pondering that question this morning. I'd say yes.

i also take it "official" live versions are out?

(Nine studio albums and three live albums -- The Song Remains the Same, BBC Sessions and How the West Was Won)

i meant for the songs list.

Oh, I gotcha, I misread that initial post.

Well, the song list is what it is -- if it's the awesomeness of the 26:53 live version that puts "Dazed and Confused" on your ballot, so be it. But there shouldn't be a differentiation on your tracks ballot between a studio version and a live version of the same song.

does anyone remember lol

Weirdly enough, my absolute favourite Led Zeppelin would be parts of two songs I won't vote for: the first couple of minutes of "How Many More Times" and the last minute of "The Ocean."

― clemenza, Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:52 AM

Mmm, I am voting for "The Ocean" strictly because of that last minute. Also, I urge you all to keep in mind the glorious evil of "Sick Again."

I say live songs and studio cuts should be counted as the same thing for these lists. God help any asshole who attempts a Grateful Dead poll.

actually I'll bet Levee takes #1

Vegas has installed Levee as the frontrunner

What are Kashmir's odds?

Since this is ILM, I imagine Carouselambra will be ranking pretty high.

Ha yes, couldn't resist!

It's getting a vote from me!

Not #1 though. Haven't decided which of two songs from III (!) will take the gold.

am half-assedly considering an all-acoustic ballot lol

Bonham's opening roll or salvo or whatever it's called in "Misty Mountain Hop" takes me an hour to untwist my spine from.

I was basically obsessed with Led Zeppelin in my teen years but I really haven't listened to them much in the last decade or so but thinking about my ballot I can't believe how many ballads are going to be on it -- Rain Song, Ten Years Gone, That's The Way, et al. I guess I am just a teary sap.

Man I wanted to get started on a discography relisten before I put my ballot together but I don't have any of the albums on my iPod right now and they are a glaring omission on Spotify right now.

I'm counting on "Trampled Under Foot" as a dark horse candidate for the top few finishers.

oh no...

That's my #1.

i'm doing this but i am terrible at remembering most led zep song titles

Wait, are we counting Billy Squier's "Lonely Is the Night" or no?

hahaha

buzza, good thing there's a list of song titles near the top of this thread!

i know, i plan on using that and youtube to tell me which ones i like

i grew up on zep thanks to my siblings but i don't own much except for a handful of tunes

one i know for sure is "in the light" (probably my #1)

yeah Zep is tough to track by song titles, i didn't know the names of some of my favorite radio staples until i got the box set a couple years ago.

want to participate in both the side-polls but i'm really having a hard time thinking of any Zep songs i HATE enough. there are some i'm a little sick of but still see merit in, and a good number of songs i think of as kind of unmemorable or boring (mostly on III and Physical Graffiti) but i dunno if i hate any of them.

scratch that, there are a couple i just realized there are a couple that i know i'm going to loudly groan if they place high on the poll

haha "stairway" will definitely be my no. 1 most hated and yet weirdly it might actually place in my top 20 as well

One ballot came in with a couple of nice blistering putdowns to go with their hated tracks...going to have to work those in to the results thread.

sent in my ballot!

Wait, are we counting Billy Squier's "Lonely Is the Night" or no?

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:33 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

haha, the first time i heard that i thought it was a zep song! then i looked up 'lonely is the night' on the internet and got results for Air Supply and was like, whoa, i need to rethink my definiton of soft rock

Is that a wedding band on Page's finger?

Pretty sure it is The One Ring.

It's not challopsy to say Houses of the Holy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IV, right?

HOTH has been the canonical Zep for the AOR krew since I was a rock tot.

Nah, that doesn't even register on the challopmeter. xp

really none of the first 6 albums being your favorite is a challop (Houses is totally my fave too)

Don't want to be too spoilery, but Presence is my favorite by such a wide margin it's not even funny.

i repped for it on my fave albums list

Nobody's Fault But Mine is a megajam but I never really got the album o/w. Pointers?

Harshness, cruelty, surgical precision...it's the Human Centipede of Led Zeppelin albums.

loool

Presence is the sound of a band that doesn't need to prove anything insisting that they have something to prove.

This thread title reflects my experience:

Can we talk about why Presence by Led Zeppelin is the best album ever made when you're actually listening to it, but it's easy to forget about when you aren't listening to it?

In other news, "Bonzo's Montreux"=This Heat outtake.

Harshness, cruelty, surgical precision...it's the Human Centipede of Led Zeppelin albums.

post-of-the-week status.

houses has always been my fave. a couple heavy jams, a couple chill jams, a couple novelty jams, and fin.

when i got the box set and started really hashing out which songs are on which albums, i got to Houses and was like all my friends are here!

heh...when I ripped the box sets into itunes on my desktop machine, I retagged everything back into their original album formats.

physical graffiti never seems to get enough love but everybody who rides for houses is otm, it's just fuckin excellent

heh...when I ripped the box sets into itunes on my desktop machine, I retagged everything back into their original album formats.

Me too.

i got the complete studio recordings one where each album is its own disc, so that was never a problem (although with like the Steely Dan and Police box sets where all the albums are squeezed onto 3-4 discs i did retag to the orig albums).

I never ever ever understood the decisionmaking that went into the Box 1/Box 2 track selections.

Wait, are we counting Billy Squier's "Lonely Is the Night" or no?

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, August 16, 2011

Might crack my top 15 if we do.

Y'all really want to open that can? Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ao_fBm8EE

SB man u gotta put some kinda warning on that

Wrong song!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq1tpCkAecI

(Unembedded, to spare anyone any undue trauma.)

Not to forget this, either:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-PxCWwu5kQ

o_0

kashmir was gonna be my easy #1 but it's like damaged goods now. I'm not sure I can even listen to it again after that.

(that's in reference to the kingdom come track obv, not schooly d)

In an interview, the band's members talk about the title of the album, saying that when you first look at the LP, you read "Kingdom Come", then, as you move your eyes downwards, you read "In your face". They laugh and say: "Kingdom come ... in your face, get it?", making an obscene joke of it.

I gotta be honest: I hadn't heard it for 20 years till just now, but I think I still love Kingdom Come's "Get It On." "It's not that easy doing what we do"--that line killed me in 1988, and it still does. There's just such hurt and sacrifice behind those words.

There's just such hurt and sacrifice behind those words.

forgive me but I lolled

i like their pipe organ though

All the '80s Zep rips remind me of this classic Christgau take on the Cult's "Electric:" "Rick Rubin meets the doom fops of the former Southern Death Cult and concocts the metal dreams are made of--Zep for our time, supposedly. One reason it's a great joke is that in 2087 almost nobody will be able to tell it from the real thing. The other reason it's a great joke is that right now almost anybody can. "

Forgot how fierce "Sick Again" and "Out on the Tiles" are.

Out on the Tiles will make my ballot

Nine ballots in so far -- thank to all the early voters!

Now I want to see a poll of Led Zeppelin samples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_dIibJZ11w

"Rhymin & Stealin" would have to be No. 1.

listening to "Nobody's Fault But Mine" (for the first time AFAIK) is kind of making me lol

very, very different from the spiritual arrangement one of my groups does

I definitely need to revisit the first album - I know straight away what my favourites are from all the others, not so much with that one.

My ballot's likely to be very Houses-heavy.

"Good Times Bad Times" is a tremendously good opener; when the drums first come crashing in; that riff! those fills! a "songs of experience" type lyric; that spazz of a solo! the last 30 seconds or so where the parts all intertwine. I feel a bit dopey considering putting the first song on a band's first album as my #1 but there you go.

to go along with the "I have no idea what half these songs are named" conversation, I just now realized which song "Over the Hills and Far Away" is

all these years I've been all "why is everyone so on Houses of the Holy's jock" and now I realize it's because half of my favorite Zeppelin songs are on it

Yeah, its hard to deny how great "Good Times Bad Times" is. Defintiely going to be on my ballot.

As I'm crawling through the discography today, I'm realizing just how much I don't like the more blues-based stuff they did on the first few albums.

I mean, I realize its all pretty blues based, but the ones that actively engage in all the tropes that go along with that aren't doing as much for me anymore.

I know what you're saying about those songs---listening to "You Shook Me" right now & feeling it---but the remedy always is: turn it up louder because the drums, especially the way they're mixed, just kill.

can I vote for Travelling Riverside Blues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSht5j3Cnh0&ob=av2n

Its on the list, I was thinking it'd make my ballot.

Oh hell, you've just reminded me xp that I've forgotten How Many More Times?

man when I was a kid we'd get so excited when the radio'd play "Traveling Riverside Blues", there was no other way you could hear it (unless you taped it off the radio or I guess had a bootleg) & so it was an ~event~ to hear it.

will brook no discontent with "Dazed & Confused" obv, that song is the terrible beast of the north come to carry your children into despair

(that's a compliment, obv!)

fyr it IS on the list! totally missed it underneath all the 'The...' songs!

'How Many More Times' is Zep's fuck you to the Jeff Beck Group.

I think I have an involuntary reflex that makes me say "awwwwww yeahhhhhh" when "Communication Breakdown" comes on

(the versions on the BBC Sessions are godhead btw)

ohhhhhhhh SUCK

Sudden flash of the worst Zep: "Living Loving Maid." Dag, that song is garbage.

Just listened to the 2nd album again and uggghhhh I dislike it so much.

xpost hahaaaaa

Yeah, II and III are likely to be the least represented albums on my ballot.

"Friends" and "Celebration" are contendas.

Ugh no I hate "Friends" so much.

I stan for "Friends". Probably my #1. Also repping for "Carouselambra", "The Rain Song".

and YES, the BBC Sessions compliment/obliterate Led Zeppelin II

If we were voting for "best side" it'd be "Houses -> Trampled -> Kashmir", right?

I think Living Loving Maid is great. It's like a Guided By Voices song with a killer bass measure.

II is probably the casual fan's fav? The singles are Zep's massivest.

"What Is & What Should Never Be" is a good song, prob gonna make my ballot, but it has the best title of any Zep song.

Except if GBV had done it, the title would've been "Purple Umbrella and 50¢ Hat".

xp

I thought IV was the casual fan's go-to, what with it having "Stairway" and "Black Dog" and "Misty Mountain Hop" and "Going To California" and "Rock and Roll"

right now every track from IV is on my ballot, lol

Owen, I'm with you re. the best side.

I like III quite a lot, but the first two I've never warmed up to.

I'm definitely voting for "Tangerine" from III, and "Immigrant Song." At least. from "II" ... maybe just "Ramble On."

And I will not pretend not to love every second of "IV."

Even "Four Sticks"?

Hi,

Not voting, but I did play 2 and 4 recently.

Yr right, didn't like 2 much, 4 was OK.

I can't wait for these poll results, just to see everyone get pissed.

Even "Four Sticks"?

omg YES "Four Sticks"! That is a jam and a half!

Also repping for "Carouselambra", "The Rain Song".

I like these two a lot, but just can't feel any love for "Friends". I like folk-y Zep, just not twee Zep.

first album is f'in awesome; think I'm gonna pull a majority of my votes from there xp to wmc

(zomg what a surprise, Dan is a big fan of the song that alternates between 5/8 and 6/8)

Mark, do you have a formal no-voting-in-ilm-polls policy?

twee Zep is one of the best Zeps, expect "Battle of Evermore" to place highly on my ballot

2 is p bad, probably my least favorite Zep album

This is gonna be hard. "Travelling Riverside Blues" is worth it just for John Paul Jones's bass (which essentially does not repeat a lick over the course of the entire song). Still may not make my ballot though. Likewise. "Stairway ..." just does not compare to any of several lengthy epics from other records. I'm not going to vote for all of them, and "Ten Years Gone" and "The Rain Song" are just so much more important to me. Also, "Houses ..." and "Physical Graffiti" (minus 4 songs or so) can't really be praised enough IMO. The good shit is just so good on those records.

Am I the only one who has "Hey Hey What Can I Do" at #1?

man I should just get the box set

the only songs I remember from II are "Whole Lotta Love", "Ramble On" and "The Lemon Song" but those are three great, great songs

mailed my ballot off. will probably regret some part of it later, but i figure you gotta just not think these things through too hard.

xposts: lol dan "four sticks" made mine too.

also two of my least faves also made my proper ballot for various reasons. but that's just how zeppelin rolled.

Also, "Four Sticks" is one of the songs that has grown in stature for me over the years. Didn't like it when I was 12 but love it now.

twee Zep is one of the best Zeps, expect "Battle of Evermore" to place highly on my ballot

But see I don't think of "Evermore" as twee at all, just folksy fantasy epic!

"Four Sticks" drives me nuts. This is why I stay away from prog.

The riff is so good though

Am I the only one who has "Hey Hey What Can I Do" at #1?

My most hated.

btw I've never read Hammer Of The Gods; is this gonna be a fun read?

i don't even think my no. 1 has been mentioned on the thread yet!

xpost: YES.

xp Great read, but salt, grain, etc.

Not gonna vote for "Hey Hey ..." at all. "Hammer of the Gods" is ridiculous, and ridiculously entertaining.

"hammer of the gods" only second in the "gross tales of hard rock excess" stakes to "the dirt."

the difference being that all the members of zep (except for bonzo, who was already dead) repudiated "hammer" while the crue owned up to their own bullshit.

Love "Four Sticks." Title never clicked with me til I saw a cover band play it - drummer uses four sticks!

II improves greatly once you spend time with the BBC sessions. "Heartbreaker" is my favourite of their blues-rock jams

xpost I thought the Crue book was in the end almost life affirming in how the band owned up to its excess. They're almost reflective.

Hmm, my list is down to 25 ...

yeah i mean "the dirt" was official and "hammer" was unofficial. which doesn't mean the crue weren't aggrandizing their own stories any more than it means "hammer" was inventing stories for zep.

i figure they're both probably half-fictionalized. or maybe "lovingly mythologized."

If I could've voted for this version of D&C, I would've. My all-time favorite Zeppelin performance. This is the very first thing I would play for someone who asked, "What makes Led Zeppelin great?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFbVGMAxO4A

awesome, I love "gross tales of hard rock excess" (soft rock too; reading a bio of the Beach Boys right now that's cleared out my nostrils a few times)

Man, listening to "Celebration Day" right now and realize I love this song too. My list just keeps growing.

Also, does anyone else love "The Wanton Song" as much as I do? It's essentially the blueprint for half of the Jesus Lizard catalogue (which I love wholeheartedly).

xpost Yeah, everybody knows about the mudshark episode but that's not even the nastiest thing in the book iirc.

The Wanton Song and Sick Again basically save PG from sputtering out to nothing.

Also, for some reason I have always really dug "I'm Gonna Crawl", in regards to the slow-burning blues-as-blues numbers. Mainly for the solo, but also the ratcheted up drama of the vocals and the synths/keyboards. Might be my only version of this kinda thing on my ballot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64rhCDy1a7M

Hah! Used to put this on the jukebox at this pizza joint my friends and I went to all the time (along with "Xanadu" by Rush).

Mark, do you have a formal no-voting-in-ilm-polls policy?

Not at all, I ran the Beatles one, voted in the Prince one, the others I don't have enough of a breadth of experience to be able to suggest that my votes matter. (Beach Boys knowledge consists of about 3 albums, LedZep I do not care enough about, etc)

I'm Gonna Crawl might make it on my ballot. Love Plant's scream towards the end.

Not at all, I ran the Beatles one,

guh! I totally forgot that, sorry

INNNNNNNNN DE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVENIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

Aww fuck, "Tea For One" pretty great as well. Wish the intro had been made into it's own song, so good.

I'm totally voting for In the Evening, which may be my fave Zep opener outside of the first or third records.

Mine too.

I am starting to load up and dig into the discography... This rhythm section continues to blow me away. We are pretty lucky we got 8 (?) albums out of these guys.

I looooooove the combination of aggro guitar and squawling synth.

Yeah, tempted to vote for "No Quarter" just to give JPJ his organ solo. That dude was/is amazing.

My JPJ-centric vote will almost certainly be "The Lemon Song."

Even revisiting songs like "Tangerine" which I wouldn't consider putting on my ballot, until I hear them... the pedal steel + the rhythm guitar + JPJ + Bonham so locked in.

Page's engineering of Bonham's drumming is some sort of genius. Always such clarity and space.

"In the Evening" still sounds like a genre that no one has discovered.

I'm holding back from cutting and pasting from other threads until the results have been tabulated.

My JPJ-centric vote will almost certainly be "The Lemon Song."

― Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:14 AM (43 seconds ago)

Absolutley, his walking lines on the breakdown (I think the 3rd minute?) I'd put up there with Carol Kaye, Duck Dunn, Bootsy Collins, Larry Graham... Bonham's call and response fills too.

Recall reading that "Black Dog" was JPJ fucking around with a rhythm no one could dance to. Mission accomplished!

Love how Page insisted on producing each album himself, each with a different engineer, so that looky-loos would know it was him that made the records sound so good. He also related an epiphany in the "Loud" doc (I think?) that either the guitar can be loud or the drums can be loud, but not both, and that he intentionally meixed himself under Bonham because he knew Bonham would lift everything around him.

I'd like to learn more about how Page became sole producer; it was such a rare thing in the seventies.

just sent my ballot off. Whew! That was kind of tough!

Got it. No albums/dislikes?

naw; only super familiar with the first five albums, and most of my dislikes are songs I can't remember tucked away in Presence or the second disc of PG

Four Sticks almost made my list, top 25 for sure

xp actually I have a dislikes list coming your way, sorry for the inconvenience wmc...

No problem! We strive for 100% customer satisfaction.

all 8 orig albums are represented on my list (and even Coda if you count Hey Hey What Can I do which showed up as an extra track on one of the reissues)

I'd like to learn more about how Page became sole producer; it was such a rare thing in the seventies.

Sold his soul to the devil for riches and fame innit.

Emily XYZ released a single on Kill Rock Stars a bunch of years ago called "Jimmy Pages Loves Lori Maddox." David Wisdom used to play it on CBC Stereo's "Nightline's." I remember finding it amusing.

Also, "Four Sticks" roxxors.

I voted for Wearing and Tearing on Coda; it was in my top 10

talk about ferocious!

"Wearing and Tearing" will probably be top-5 for me, and "Four Sticks" top-10.

The Ordinaires' cover of Kashmir:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXcx26OI7Es

As I was loading all the Led Zep onto my iPod I remembered that I created a Coda II EP when I ripped the box sets way back when that consists of:

1. Baby Come On Home
2. Travelling Riverside Blues
3. Hey Hey What Can I Do
4. White Summer/Black Mountain Side
5. Moby Dick/Bonzo's Montreux

Oh man, I nip out for a couple of hours and this thread blows up :( Anyway...

That version of Dazed & Confused (a hundred xposts) is why I felt so guilty at leaving it off my ballot. It's from 'Supershow' - what's that? I love the filmic look of it anyway, that slow track into the full band early on - so evil! They're not a band well-served by visuals, really - there's only a couple of dvds' worth. That's partly why they've always felt like a cult to me (that and being British, cos *nobody* was into them when I were young).

It's not my favourite Zep footage though. That's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVc-RaBEaBw

I have a "Black Dog" dance. It's like Elaine's Foghat dance, but in a more complicated time signature.

Man even the songs I'd written off before listening are sounding good, this band is so unfairly maligned. "Rock & Roll" is a pretty damn great 1971 update of a 50s rock song.

I mean its pretty lol to think a band with Jimmy fuckin' Page needed another guitarist, but I can't think of how sweet it would have been for a Richard Thompson solo to have shown up in "Evermore" to complete the Fairport Convention thing.

Hammer Of The Gods - great read, gets kind of heavy & depressing at parts though. Plant & Jones come out well, the rest not so much iirc.

I'd heard about it for years before I ever found a copy. When I did find one it had a mangled back cover, so I asked for a few quid off. It was a very nervous wait while she consulted the manager, cos I'd have to back down if they refused. Couldn't believe it when they agreed, I wanted to shake them and shout 'DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'VE DONE?! THIS IS PURE GOLD' (but I didn't).

"Night Flight" sounds like it could be an outtake off of Every Picture Tells A Story. I haven't heard this in 20 years I bet.

wow, Coda (original issue) is pretty bad. In Through The Out Door pretty bleak as well.

Man at times "No Quarter" almost sounds like it could fit in on an Amon Duul II record or some shit.

Lots of Zep fans love "All My Love," but Plant mastered the synthy ballad once he went solo.

In Through The Out Door's actually pretty great imo, you just have to get past the dated sound of it (also it sounds a lot less dated than it used to iykwim). I'd rep for maybe six out the seven tracks on a good day.

there's something about the shift in sound from Presence on that kinda bugs me, like Percy got REALLY into tight plate reverb.... everything seems to take on a much more metallic sheen.

In Through The Out Door's actually pretty great imo, you just have to get past the dated sound of it (also it sounds a lot less dated than it used to iykwim).

This was similar to my preconception going into it, but the bleak content was more of my concern than the sound/production/engineering. It is not a surprise to learn that 2/3rds of the musicians had checked out by this point, and JPJ alone could not salvage a full quality album out of the studio material, mismatched with limp genre exercises.

If that album is the sound of 3/4 of a band checked out, I'm all for checking out. "Fool in the Rain" may even make it to my list.

2/3rds, sorry.

I thought Bonham was in decent shape for ITTOD? He certainly sounded more together than Page.

"Fool in the Rain" is on mine. What a way for Bonzo to go out. I don't know who else would have thought of playing that beat.

Bernard Purdie would have, and did.

I've got a cd of bonham's outtakes from ittod, and he still sounds checked in to me.

perhaps a great place to once again show Jeff Porcaro taking the Purdie shuffle, adding "Fool in the Rain," and getting "Rosanna."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwFdExvCxM4

will no one rep for Hot Dog lol

Purdie breaks it down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t0VlzJeNvA

Bernard Purdie would have, and did.

true

"Hot Dog" rep here.

"Fool in the rain" will absolutely be on my ballot.

Was just listening to 'Carouselambra' at lunch. I think I have it too low on my ballot.

"Fool In The Rain" was my #2, that song is fucking incredible

It won't be that high on mine but it'll certainly be there.

ILM's love for "Fool In The Rain" was one of the things that first attracted me to this place.

Hahaha, somewhere, somebody who has already voted is grinding his teeth.

Can we please not talk about what our number ones and number twos are this soon?

sorry :(

http://dsmyardsales.com/multimedia/photoarchive/tours/1979/images/lz19790804_11.jpg

I'm not super pissed or anything, just sucks away some of the fun if we start seeing what everyone has placed highly before the countdown even starts.

I'm not sure how many songs from it will make it onto my ballot, but I think Coda is unfairly maligned. "We're Gonna Groove" alone is worth the price of admission, but "Poor Tom" and "Wearing And Tearing" are great as well. I also dig "Walter's Walk" and "Ozone Baby" - in fact, there isn't anything on it that I really dislike. I could do without the John Bonham Drum Orchestra, I guess.

It may help that it was the first Zeppelin I bought back in, um, 1983 or 84 and I only knew the first two albums by that point.

jon's right, let's try to avoid being too spoilery

btw, the rollout is going to start the same day as votes close -- that's why I specified noon EDT Tuesday for cutoff.

Can we please not talk about what our number ones and number twos are this soon?

In a way, I voted for Fool as my No. 2.

heh...when I ripped the box sets into itunes on my desktop machine, I retagged everything back into their original album formats.
Me too.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:01 AM (20 hours ago) Bookmark

I did this manually, and it made me insane recreating the original album song orders one by one. is there some magical way that you sorted the box sets back into their original order?

If we were voting for "best side" it'd be "Houses -> Trampled -> Kashmir", right?
― Ban or Astro-Ban? (Ówen P.), Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:38 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

yup, no contest. god, this thread is so "rockist" i love it

is there some magical way that you sorted the box sets back into their original order

i re-sold the box set and bought the complete remasters

I'll rep for the 2009 Mick Wall bio of Led Zeppelin. I even got used to the "Bright Lights Big City"-like 2nd person singular mini-chapters where he gets in the mind of each of the four, not just once but throughout the book...it should be annoying but it kind of works. For those who can't get enough detail, it's 500 pages of Zep fun.

I don't remember it taking too long -- iirc first I stripped out the box set disc & track numbers for all of the tracks. Then I command-clicked to select all the songs for one album, changed their album titles en masse, then repeated for the rest of the albums. Once I had the album titles reset, I could sort by artist and each album's tracks would stay grouped together. Open the info window and enter track numbers and you're done. 10-15 minutes, I think?

yeah, that's sort what I did, but I'm glad you confirmed it--i'm just sort of a slowpoke. thanks for responding--i appreciate it

This poll is impossible but, ironically, also sort of easy, because I know I can't go wrong. If I just picked the first 20 songs a Zep shuffle shot me I'd likely be more than happy. That said, I'm sad I won't find room for stuff like "For Your Life."

Damn, it's amazing how much Bonham gets away with doing so little. Dude's feel was unmatchable. A lot of the drums on "Kashmir" are as straightforward as they come, fills aside, but the guy just punishes that beat.

https://3084615131657267755-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/nickdouglas/zoso-finellan2.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cozjoYQz6xAp-vqeGTDLhMw-kXG3Ms3uEqiP2FtFgC7n5OJSWQL3xpxb17UXAsFA3EctgG5tchLYO2EzMX3ZcPfHFmpsaLtj84Qzd6lDx2kbVxp52AXL7TD6Wv8RMC5m8H4fZRJQrluBj5sh9SQvSjqcDMsJPfaB78jrdym_9KDJw37ux_1jTMd9BfJgea4J6PspXxlRBUk52jOf1sn1DT0uUTAhw%3D%3D&attredirects=0

ah yes, the enigmatic "question mark" post...a perennial fave

sorry, jk

Most days, In Through The Out Door is my favorite Zep record. I definitely prefer the last four to the first four, but it's not like the have a bad album.

I wish they'd release a follow-up to How The West Was Won that focuses on the later tours. There are some great boots from the mid to late 70s and I think Page really shortchanges their live legacy by ignoring it.

Ballot count stands at 12

Soon to be 13, gimme a sec.

sent via webmail, lmk if that works for ya

Got it, thx!

fascinating: http://www.last.fm/music/Led+Zeppelin/+tracks

don't think it's giving anything away to say some of my top 10 ain't even in the top 50

if you start at the bottom and move up, then you're lookin at a potential 20...thanks for the link, food for thought

Since I've Been Loving You! Oh man, how can I have forgotten so many? It's my favourite thing from The Song Remains The Same.

voted for one of the top 10

Ha, voting for three of those top 10 and three of those bottom 10. Good spread!

52 Dust In The Wind 24,417

lol?

more listens than "The Rover" btw

I had The Rover on this morning. It's one of my favourites on PG, but I just can't shake off a feeling of half-assedness about it, like much of the rest of that album. I'm probably being really unfair and they slaves for months, but a sprawling double, using old offcuts, and the shoddy sleeve has always put me off.

PG would've been a great album if they added a couple of tracks from that onto Houses (such as 'Houses of The Holy' and 'The Rover') -- but yeah except with some standouts (how come no one has mentioned 'Down By The Seaside'?) sides three and four are spotty.

I should qualify the first statement by saying I do think PG is a great album, but it could have been even better.

lol thanks to this thread I bought like 5 Zep albums off of iTunes last night

maybe I should have gotten the $100 all-in enchilada but I didn't really want the live albums

<3 the rover tbh. rarely get to discs 3/4

Through "Ten Years Gone" (& oh! at that song, so lovely; Plant's come so far as a vocalist) PG is excellent. It's haphazard after that, sort of their half of a White Album.

i made a playlist of physical graffiti without the b-sides and it fucking cooks

of course i lost "down by the seaside" and "night flight" in doing that

which are the b-sides of which you speak?

the songs they appended to the record to make it a double album, which were all leftovers from previous sessions.

but which songs are those?

leftovers: "the rover," "houses of the holy," "bron-yr-aur," "down by the seaside," "night flight," "boogie with stu," "black country woman"

Love "Black Country Woman."

ok, cool! I just don't know much about the genesis of this album. I like all those songs! might even vote for "Bron-Yr-Aur", which a friend in hs spent many hours trying to learn to play before figuring out that it's two guitars double-tracked & so not the kind of thing he could ever play.

I don't think I like Presence very much, having now relistened. I love "Nobody's Fault But Mine" but otherwise the album makes my head hurt with its starts & stops & rhythm changes---which I get that a lot of you really dig & that's cool! but those are not my kind of hooks.

Plus "Tea For One" is the most boring of epic Zep blues jams.

i love all of the leftovers they put on physical graffiti but take them away and you basically have the hardest led zeppelin album: "custard pie," "in my time of dying," "trampled underfoot," "kashmir," "in the light," "ten years gone," "the wanton song," "sick again"

Couple more have rolled in.

Josh in Chi: any albums or least-liked?

Aw, I like Tea For One. It is kind of boring, but it really spoke to me when I was 18 for some reason. It should be 'mashed up' with Chic's Soup For One, if that hasn't happened already.

Presence was my first Zep album I think, courtesy of Melody Maker's Unknown Pleasures book. I remember an image there of Bonham's drums being moored out at sea on that track, which I liked a lot.

xpost Nah, I like everything. Even the occasional bit of crap tends to work in context.

I did this manually, and it made me insane recreating the original album song orders one by one. is there some magical way that you sorted the box sets back into their original order?

Not really magical, just went one by one and cleaned up the metadata for each track so that it was labelled as being on the original album in the original order. It was kind of a pain in the ass, but I preferred to listent to them that way.

maybe I should have gotten the $100 all-in enchilada but I didn't really want the live albums

Not sure which live albums iTunes is including with that "all-in" thing, but they are crucial if it includes How the West Was Won and the BBC Sessions. West singlehandedly renewed my love for Zeppelin when it came out and made me realize how stupid I had been to ignore them just because I thought I'd "heard enough".

man, the guitar solo on the rover is just really a good guitar solo

expected some more "achilles" talk. fave deep cut, fave of the epics, and a strong contender for overall fave. also covered it in my high school band. ;-)

this is 100% otm btw:
Page's engineering of Bonham's drumming is some sort of genius. Always such clarity and space.

not to take anything away from bonham. dude was great. but god, the drums SOUND amazing on these records.

I know I ref'd this upthread but have always thought this was Page's low point as a guitarist. the solo is so sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um6eNkswv3g

At one point I went through all the links in Wikipedia to learn about each song. I was perhaps most impressed by the technical recording details of "When the Levee Breaks:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Levee_Breaks#Led_Zeppelin_version

Per Page the guitarist, I was always amazed that the same dude that could record the perfect barrage of notes on "Good Times, Bad Times" could record the slop-city solo on "Heartbreaker" on the very next record. I mean, it's better than I could ever dream of being, but I've never been able to listen to it without thinking of Nigel's ridiculous solo in "Spinal Tap."

Well the song is as much of a throwaway as the solo. I think they cut the piano off midnote at 3:10.

Hot Dog, that is.

So I have my "short" list narrowed down to 30 songs and the breakdown per album looks like this:

I - 4 songs
II - 2 songs
III - 3 songs
IV - 3 songs
Houses - 4 songs
Graffiti - 6 songs
Presence - 2 songs
In Through the Out Door - 3 songs
Coda/B-sides - 3 songs

admirably spread out -- mine definitely won't be that even

I think Page was going for intentionally loose/sloppy on "Hot Dog," and that that was kind of a misunderstanding of rockabilly/early rock and roll.

Yeah, the "Hot Dog" solo is kind of ass, the best parts are when he comes close to the main riff.

expected some more "achilles" talk. fave deep cut, fave of the epics, and a strong contender for overall fave. also covered it in my high school band. ;-)

Love it. Made my top 5. Speaking of the brilliance that is Presence, I wish I'd included "Hots On For Nowhere" on my ballot. Probably my all-time favorite Page solo.

Led Zeppelin recorded its version of the song in December 1970 at Headley Grange, where the band used the Rolling Stones Mobile Studio. The song had earlier been tried unsuccessfully by the band at Island Studios at the beginning of the recording sessions for their fourth album.[4]

man, this is the shit that breaks my heart. because in the second sentence lies part of the answer about why music's pretty different now. LZ scrapped probably several days' worth of studio time on this jam because they didn't think it was working. those several days = $$$. bands really don't have that luxury any more. they can do it in pre-production in a cheap studio or at their homes or whatever, but the idea of actually spending the good studio dollar to explore whether one approach is working (or whether one [on the clock, paid] producer is working, or whether one physical space is working, etc): that's a dream from the past. unless you're utterly massive, your single venture into the studio to make the album is going to produce the definitive & for-the-record version of the song for better or worse; nobody has the scratch to do multiple tries in multiple studios, but there are plenty of stories from the legendary acts of trying a song over & over to try to get to the heart of it.

yeah "Achilles" is amazing

Ballot sent (to myself). That was really hard!

- One song which I really hated 30 years ago made my top 5.
- Several favorites from back then were easy cuts.
- Swear to god, "The Crunge" barely missed my ballot.

can't wait to work on my ballot over the weekend...II love The Crunge too btw)

i said recently that if you don't like "the crunge" or "d'yer mak'er" then you're an asshole

not true at all, definitely, but still

tbh, sunny had a point taken away from her when we first met in New Orleans for not getting the "joke" as I was driving around lost on the wrong side of the river going, "Where's that confounded bridge?"

(Then again, she may have been fearing for her life, so we're even.)

I've begun my relistening campaign

I is kind of a massive album, huh

They're all pretty massive, really.

a few years ago I did what you're doing with the remasters DJP (i.e., got 'em all at once & embarked on a listening campaign) and the sheer pleasure that the music brought me was totally exhilarating

I is kind of a massive album, huh

Yes you is

Aero, will you be voting?

PG is the one in which I've immersed myself the last few days.

WmC I am kind of a weird music freak in that I kinda don't do ranked lists. I dutifully keep a year-end list & I welcome a thread about awesome Led Zeppelin tracks but ranking my top 20 is just sorta not my scene, all love to everybody whose scene it is tho!

that's cool, no pressure intended

i said recently that if you don't like "the crunge" or "d'yer mak'er" then you're an asshole

"D'yer Mak'er" and "Hey Hey What Can I Do" are two songs that were completely and forever destroyed for me a former college roommate and that Encomium tribute album. This guy constantly played the Sheryl Crow cover of the former and the fucking Hootie cover of the latter to the point that I still can't heard the original without shuddering.

although I am going to temp-ban anyone who says "oh I meant to vote in this and forgot!"
xpost

Goddamn I hate this keyboard, "by a former college roommate" and "hear the originals".

That Hootie cover is remarkably terrible, memorably so.
(I like 4 Non Blondes version of Misty Mountain Hop, tho)

I don't mind "The Crunge." Or at least, I don't on the record. I can't think of a time I've ever thought, hey, I want to hear :"The Crunge!" So when it comes to a band with very little I don't like a lot, if not outright love, something's got to get in the back of the line.

thanking this thread for getting me back into LZ after Q104.3's "get the led out" programming blocks (which seem to play the same five songs every hour or two) tested me mightily.

I wonder which is more prevalent nowadays, a "GET THE LED OUT" block or the "MANDATORY METALLICA" block.

Ack. All these horrible covers mentioned makes me wanna cleanse my palate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54uG7VoLvWQ

Just sent my ballot off. Had to make some very difficult cuts!

these guys were truly an astonishing band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeW2dEm6dos

haha, ty for the Ween, PP

okay once again I am just now discovering the name of a song I've loved for years ("What Is and What Should Never Be")

The songlist is also missing my number 2: The Girl I Love (She Got Long Black Wavy Hair), from the BBC Sessions.

I dunno if "swing" is exactly the right term for what "Custard Pie" does, but I love that rhythm. & it does lewd way better than "The Lemon Song" because it's unabashedly aggressive.

I'm sending response emails to everybody as ballots come in, so if you vote and don't get a response, mention it on this thread so I make sure your vote gets counted.

Exceptions -- a couple of ballots that came via ILXmail and I mentioned in this thread that they arrived.

SongOfSam -- sorry about the omission. Dang...

I'd vote in this, but it would just be "Since I've Been Loving You" 20 times.

thanking this thread for getting me back into LZ after Q104.3's "get the led out" programming blocks (which seem to play the same five songs every hour or two) tested me mightily

In Toronto, after years and years of Led Zeppelin being the most overplayed band on Q-107, they got replaced by Pink Floyd somewhere along the way. For me, that's trading way, way down--but a good thing, ultimately, if you love LZ.

okay once again I am just now discovering the name of a song I've loved for years ("What Is and What Should Never Be")

This placed VERY high on my ballot. Between the amazing JPJ bass playing and Page's stereo-panned guitars at the end, it's always been one of my favorite tracks.

lol add to my evergrowing "oh THAT'S the name of that song": "Heartbreaker"

my classic rock station growing up really had a thing for II apparently

There's just no hating on these guys, is there? The worst you can really say is that they're overplayed, which isn't their fault. Hell, they barely even released any singles! And Page/Plant/Jones have aged into elder statesmen of rock better than many of their peers, and proven themselves to be team players again and again. I mean, are there any stories of these guys (post-LZ, at least) being jerks? (Jerks to one another doesn't count, though even then the surviving three have been more or less cordial, Page/Plant album/tour aside).

My breakdown:

I - 3 songs
II - 5 songs
III - 2 songs
IV - 4 songs
Houses - 1 song
Graffiti - 2 songs
Presence - 0 songs
In Through the Out Door - 0 songs
Coda/B-sides - 3 songs

I guess I prefer the early stuff to the later albums.

x-post I've noticed lately the classic rock station(s) have stopped playing "Heartbreaker"/"Living Loving Maid" as a pair.

lol I was just about to bring that up

I think there was a window after punk and their break-up, but before the Beastie Boys sampled them on Licensed to Ill, when they were much less revered than they are now. They weren't hated, but they hadn't yet been gone long enough for them not to be lumped in with other oversized bands from the '70s. Pretty sure, from memory, this is true. It was like the Beastie Boys (and Rick Rubin, and Schooly-D, Stairway to Hell, and, um, the Cult) helped to remind people how awesome they were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu3FuEiopJ0

All their albums got to number one apart from the first and their last: "Coda"...

the idea of actually spending the good studio dollar to explore whether one approach is working (or whether one [on the clock, paid] producer is working, or whether one physical space is working, etc): that's a dream from the past. unless you're utterly massive, your single venture into the studio to make the album is going to produce the definitive & for-the-record version of the song for better or worse; nobody has the scratch to do multiple tries in multiple studios, but there are plenty of stories from the legendary acts of trying a song over & over to try to get to the heart of it.

^^^this is so OTM and it bums me out. the idea now is that you can do everything on your own! with proTools! I guess, because analog/studio spaces don't matter anymore right lol

I think there was a window after punk and their break-up, but before the Beastie Boys sampled them on Licensed to Ill, when they were much less revered than they are now.

uh, this was a really formative/crucial time for metal, involving many bands that (properly) revered Zepellin as gods

NWOBHM, Halen/hair metal, etc

All their albums got to number one apart from the first and their last: "Coda"...

If you had asked me which album spent less time at No. 1 in 1976 - Presence, Breezin' or Fleetwood Mac - I would have given you the wrong answer.

lol I still have the entirety of IV on my ballot

I'm a little vague sometimes when trying to explain a general perception. I meant more with the general music audience--or maybe I meant more with rock critics. I went back and checked the first Rolling Stone Record Guide, which came out in '79. Billy Altman gave mediocre ratings to both II and Physical Graffiti, and only IV got the highest rating. I realize that's just one guy, but I also think that was in line with the general attitude towards Led Zeppelin at the time (as I remember it). If the same book came out today, I think it'd be a very different story.

I think a lot of people took them for granted. When did Bonham and his sound become this sort of ur-rock icon?

Took them for granted--that's a good way to put it. They had dominated for a long time, Bonham died and they called it a day, and everyone's attention turned elsewhere. (I don't mean the metal audience...and not that I know anything about metal, but wasn't the early '80s when that started to go more in an underground direction?) There just wasn't a great deal of interest in much of anything having to do with the '70s during the early '80s--Led Zeppelin, Elton John, disco, whatever. Some people, like Bowie, managed to adapt, most disappeared from the conversation. Frankie Goes to Hollywood was a big topic of concern.

Led Zeppelin was one of the bands I noted having very different reviews in the first and second editions of the RS guide; the Doors was the other. IIRC one of them went from 2-star and 3-star ratings to fours and fives, and the other went in the opposite direction. I think it was LZ that got upgraded and the Doors downgraded, but I can't remember for sure. I wish I'd kept my copies of those books.

I've noticed lately the classic rock station(s) have stopped playing "Heartbreaker"/"Living Loving Maid" as a pair.

Until I bought the album, I always thought it was one song!

I think it was LZ that got upgraded

That was my memory too when I scurried downstairs to get the book, thinking that that would support my point. The red and blue ran the same Billy Altman write-up with the same ratings, though (adding Out Door and Coda, neither of which he reviewed very well). Altman was great on Zeppelin, I should add; I love how he describes "Black Dog" as "indescribably chaotic."

Hmm. Was there a third edition?

okay so there is a very good reason why everyone loves "Stairway To Heaven", which is that it is fucking gorgeous

Don't think so. If they put one out today, my guess would be an almost unbroken string of five-star ratings from the debut through Physical Graffiti, and nothing less than a four for any of the studio albums. (x-post)

There was the red edition, the blue edition and then this one from the 90s:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TK9CCM8EL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Amazon says there's a fourth edition out too.

thought it was well established that critics at the time hated Zeppelin

ok yeah, I had that 3rd ed too -- unloaded them all over the years.

Anybody able to check how they did in that one (and what year it came out)? I assume Altman's write-up had been replaced by then.

I think critics hated Led Zeppelin only for their first two or three albums. And not all critics, by any means--Christgau didn't, and I'm sure Bangs, Marsh, or any of the Creem guys wouldn't have either.

Ballot count stands at 24. Hearing my email alert sound is more exciting than it has any business being.

Christgau didn't, and I'm sure Bangs, Marsh, or any of the Creem guys wouldn't have either.

uh

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/led-zeppelin-iii-19701126

Unfortunately, precious little of Z III's remaining hysteria is as useful or as effectively melodramatic. "Friends" has a fine bitter acoustic lead, but gives itself over almost entirely to monotonously shrill Plant breast-beatings. Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge.

so wrong

tbf he doesn't pan them outright, but his enthusiasm is surprisingly guarded

Working on my ballot tonight or tomorrow.

The Zep, of all bands surviving, are today — their music is as ephemeral as Marvel comix, and as vivid as an old Technicolor cartoon.

OTM, but not in the way I think he meant to be.

Bangs hated Zep; there's a famous line he wrote (which I might be misquoting) where Page played a single note on his guitar with a viola bow for at least an hour and the kids chased him out of town...

I think it was in the Troggs piece? either that or James Taylor Must Die...

(just occurred to me those two might be the same)

Zep didn't get a positive Stone review until Lenny Kaye did IV. John Mendelssohn panned the first two.

I'm looking at the 3rd edition of the RS guide (published 1992). The Zep entry is written by an ILXor! I to III get 4 stars, IV gets 5, HOTH gets 4.5, PG 4, Presence 3.5, ITTOD 3, Coda 2.5.

that reads a bit like the "knuckle dragging" sabbath pans from that era.

why does 70s critics never want to rock?

Chuck, I assume?

nope, posts here as m coleman (googleproof if needed I guess?)

Bangs loved Sabbath, I think! My impression was that Zep was a little too close to prog for a lot of those guys' tastes...?

omg "Dancing Days", I'd forgotten this song existed

I'm not surprised RS would have contemporaneously dismissed Led Zeppelin. And maybe, possibly, Bangs shaped his review of III with that in mind (not saying he did, just that it's a possibility). But the review doesn't suggest hate.

Over across the tracks in the industrial side of Cream country lie unskilled laborers like Black Sabbath, which was hyped as a rockin' ritual celebration of the Satanic mass or some such claptrap, something like England's answer to Coven. Well, they're not that bad, but that's about all the credit you can give them. The whole album is a shuck—despite the murky songtitles and some inane lyrics that sound like Vanilla Fudge paying doggerel tribute to Aleister Crowley, the album has nothing to do with spiritualism, the occult, or anything much except stiff recitations of Cream cliches that sound like the musicians learned them out of a book, grinding on and on with dogged persistence. Vocals are sparse, most of the album being filled with plodding bass lines over which the lead guitar dribbles wooden Claptonisms from the master's tiredest Cream days. They even have discordant jams with bass and guitar reeling like velocitized speedfreaks all over each other's musical perimeters yet never quite finding synch—just like Cream! But worse.

LESTER BANGS

(Posted: Sep 17, 1970)

70s critics = morons

(Bangs did change his tune a bit, tbf)

70s critics = morons

Strong dissent.

it's really more "critics = morons"

(obv there is an unspoken "when I disagree with them" caveat there)

lol Dan

Geez...I'm trapped inside of a Lou Reed live album.

4 references to Cream and one to Clapton? Uh, no...

Music-reviewing-as-artistic-performance was a bad bad development. Bangs playing typewriter onstage with the J. Geils Band? COME ON, MAN.

Strong dissent.

what can I say, there seems to have been a general tendency to have not gotten/seriously misjudged/completely overlooked a lot of things that have gone on to become seminal, massively influential, widely loved bands/works - Sabbath, Zeppelin, Prince, P-Funk, etc.)

look at this half-assed review of Mothership Connection, for example: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/mothership-connection-19760325.

like, I dunno WHAT the editors of Rolling Stone thought was important in the early 70s, but it's pretty clear they were wrong from a historical POV

much longer better example of Bangs on Sabbath:

http://www.creemmagazine.com/_site/BeatGoesOn/BlackSabbath/BringYourMotherPt001.html

RS "Maggot Brain" review literally opens with "who needs this shit?"

Funk for funk's sake becomes merely garbage.

seriously, I STAB YOU

much longer better example of Bangs on Sabbath:

yeah that piece is way better, obviously

whatever, Shakes

As the risk of stating the obvious, responding to something when it appears, and responding to it 30 or 40 years after the fact, are two very different things, and one's a lot easier than the other. And not that I want to derail this thread with opinions of my own that would be very unpopular around here, I think they were right on one of the four artists you list. (No, I'm not going to say which one.)

If you were to go back to and check, I bet that most of what RS writers thought was important in the early '70s--Who's Next, Every Picture Tells a Story, There's a Riot Goin' On, Tapestry--holds up amazingly well. Sure they missed some, and sure they treated some stuff as important that nobody cares about anymore.

"right on with one of"

I think there was a window after punk and their break-up, but before the Beastie Boys sampled them on Licensed to Ill, when they were much less revered than they are now

I think this is important, except that I'd extend the time way out - in the UK they were all but invisible the whole time I was buried deep in alt music (up to at least '97 I'd say). There was the occasional whisper about a band with a delayed album 'going Zeppelin' (Stone Roses, Verve, even heh Chapterhouse - anyone with the guts to put a big lead on record would get it basically), or they'd be mentioned in passing on a certain type of band who weren't afraid to get a bit epic (Jeff Buckley, Puressence, the less credible grunge bands).

But the point was, you just couldn't hear these guys. They're not a radio staple here in the same way, they never had a hit single access into the national consciousness, they have zero scope for exposure on MTV etc. I was lucky in that I had a fantastic library nearby and wasn't afraid to use it, but I don't think I ever met anyone my age who knew them and whose exposure didn't come from me in the first place.

Bear in mind this is a narrow personal experience and about a narrow category of kid - I'm sure hiphop types and the uncooler metallists knew them plenty. But I'm pretty sure this is how it was across UK 'indie' from punk onwards 'til I lost interest at least. I kind of love that aspect for me, simultaneously being a cult secret and the biggest thing ever.

I can understand ppl slagging off Plant, who definitely can come off as shrill; I am a little perplexed by ppl who slag off Page...

(in ref to Bangs' comment re: 'Friends', other Zep-haters)

to the end I grapple with thee. for funk's sake, I stab at thee.

Funny 1969 Rolling Stone 1-2 on albums I and II:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/led-zeppelin-i-19690315

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/led-zeppelin-ii-19691213

and pretty soul-belter who can do a good spade imitation

W T F

I stab that guy too

that's p. messed-up

oh come on, you can't tell me you are actually shocked/surprised by casually racist commentary from over 40 years ago

My impression was that Zep was a little too close to prog for a lot of those guys' tastes...?

In Bangs' case, it was that Zep came out of the almighty and unfuckwithable Yardbirds.

Also, the Who always got rave reviews, so (some) 70s critics apparently did want to rock.

Interestingly, Vince Aletti was one of disco's staunchest and most vocal defenders.

"Like I listened to the break (Jimmy wrenching some simply indescribable sounds out of his axe while your stereo goes ape-shit) on some heavy Vietnamese weed and very nearly had my mind blown."

I got nothin' for John Mendelsohn--going by anything I've ever read by or about him, he was off on some other planet. I've got a Rhino reissue of all his music.

http://johnmendelssohn.blogspot.com/

oh come on, you can't tell me you are actually shocked/surprised by casually racist commentary from over 40 years ago

not really - I mean Lester indulged in it too.

just sort of frustrating/irritating to see it employed as a back-handed diss of something that is actually great (I imagine Mendelsohn would defend himself by saying Zep were the REAL racists because they were ripping off/aping black blues musicians etc)

My basic point: using old reviews of Led Zeppelin or P-Funk or anybody else as a means of dismissing '70s critics en masse makes no sense to me. Paul Nelson, Billy Altman, Tom Carson, Charles Young, Ellen Willis, Nick Tosches, Vince Aletti, the famous ones already mentioned, etc., etc., etc.--there were just so many great music critics in the '70s.

On the other hand, I am posting under the influence of some heavy Vietnamese weed right now, so take that for what it's worth.

xp clemenza OTM. Also, lumping it all into it being Rolling Stone's ethos doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering how many disagreements there were on the reviews pages. Jann Wenner LOVED the Grateful Dead; Dave Marsh, for one, despised them.

Of course, this was all before Wenner started selling 5-star reviews in exchange for exclusive access to bands for cover stories.

OK, I'm grammatically fucked, but you get the idea.

I was making an offhand blanket judgment based on trolling through old RS reviews, that's all.

The only one of those guys clemenza listed that I've read is Nick Tosches. (Aletti's name sounds familiar)

xp

On the other hand, I am posting under the influence of some heavy Vietnamese weed right now, so take that for what it's worth.

where the fuck can u cop vietnamese weed

Vietnam

some Americans hung out there once iirc

On the other hand, I am posting under the influence of some heavy Vietnamese weed right now, so take that for what it's worth.

where the fuck can u cop vietnamese weed

― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, August 19, 2011 9:00 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Vietnam

― Rob Based and DJ EZ God (DJP), Friday, August 19, 2011 9:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

"...and that's how our own underrated aerosmith wound up doing 20 years in Chí Hòa Prison! True story."

Just stating that I will have a ballot! First time voting in any of these (though I have enjoyed reading them), but considering the amount of time I spent in my life listening to these records it would not be right to skip out. Gotta slim my list down from about 45 right now though!

I just had to dive right in and start with a pretty short list I could commit to. If I started at 45 I never would have made it down to 20.

I kind of want to do a second ballot now; there are at least half-a-dozen tracks I feel I've treated real bad.

I didn't try to get to 45, I just kept thinking of stuff I think is great. Pretty sure with a little distance, i.e., many listens and a couple of more days, I can whittle it down pretty easily. It was just that the first rush of listening to songs I hadn't heard in years got me all "shit, right, that fucking solo" and "holy shit, I forgot how great this was". Over and over again, obviously.

I thought I could rid myself of stuff like "Hearbreaker", which while listening in my head (you know, from memory) can seem silly, especially Plant, got totally reinserted because of the break for the solo Page moment and then the cool rave-up before the outro of the main riff etc. Just Classic. Still may not make final 20 though.

Would this band be as revered/respected were it not for its folk rock inclinations? That side of the group breaks things up nicely, and Page is one of those rare electric guitarists equally adept and inspired on acoustic.

i feel exactly that, it's the hard rock spiced with folk-Joni that makes me love em. I also meant to mention in reference to the comments above that in the bios I've read about them one of the main points they hit home was that LZ was the first(?) giant popular success that filled stadiums while being "hated" by the rock critic establishment. The negative reviews and how much they stung is really heavily emphasized in the Wall bio in particular

and maybe that hate was as much the marauding way they approached everything. It was seen as bad form, as much as the music itself

For all the lurkers, semi-lurkers and weekend-only ILXors -- your vote counts too!

Ballot sent.

Would this band be as revered/respected were it not for its folk rock inclinations? That side of the group breaks things up nicely, and Page is one of those rare electric guitarists equally adept and inspired on acoustic.

It's definitely a large part of their appeal to me - also when I started properly investigating the back catalogue I was surprised just how much pastoral folk stuff they did. It wasn't a side of the band that I'd ever heard talked about much.

oh man so this is probably the only one of these artist poll things i'll ever vote in and i am damn excited to do so.

it's also an excuse to buy more of those reissues that come in the little lp sleeves since i only have iii, iv, houses, and physical (hint hint where most of my votes will be coming from).

It's definitely a large part of their appeal to me - also when I started properly investigating the back catalogue I was surprised just how much pastoral folk stuff they did. It wasn't a side of the band that I'd ever heard talked about much.

agree my image of the band was completely distorted prior to hearing this stuff. I thought it was all dinosaur blues rockin

OK, I just submitted mine and found it extremely difficult--deciding which 20 wasn't hard, but ranking them was nuts. Here's my breakdown by album
Led Zeppelin One 1
Led Zeppelin Two 1
Led Zeppelin Three 2
Led Zeppelin Four 3
Houses of the Holy 3
Physical Graffiti 7(!)
Presence 2
In Through.... 1

Yes, I know, but I polled it from da heart...I'm a sucker for sprawling double LPs

I should check Physical Graffiti, huh

I still have all 8 tracks from IV on my ballot and it's very unlikely any of them will come off

has there been an all-goth tribute record called Physical Gothffiti yet? if not, when I coordinate such a project, DJP, are you good for it?

p.s. yeah Physical Graffiti is a monster, must-have

Physical Gothffiti

slap a cleopatra records logo on there and some bad line art and you've got the must-not-to-buy hat-trick.

"PG" I've always thought of as the most overrated Zeppelin record, tbh. Assuming any of them truly count as overrated.

PG has a specific feel that I just love. Definitely a preference thing, as it's definitely a bloated, gratuitous record. Just happens to work for me on that level. I find that the songs on PG have just held up extremely well for me and still hold surprises and depths that a lot of other LZ songs don't any more.

Was also the first CD I ever bought, probably in 1985. Only tapes before then.

PG has a specific feel that I just love.

otm, even considering the fact that it was compiled from a wide variety of sessions -- it feels like it was recorded in one big burst

Yeah, just holds together as a very heavy-feeling record, even the lighter songs if that makes sense. Has this strange immersive totallity about it.

My ballot is almost done! Just relistening a bit to see if I think it holds up. Total blast (though tough as shit for me).

Holy shit, the return to the "verse" or whatever you want to call it 7 minutes into "Carouselambra" is just so so fucking good! One of the most convincing things to make you wonder what the band might have gotten up to if they had lasted into the 80s.

I guesss "In the Evening" as well

What the hell, lists are fun and I did mine fast, so I think I'm entitled to a 21-30 of feelin' bad:

21. Since I've Been Loving You
22. In My Time Of Dying
23. Dancing Days
24. How Many More Times?
25. In The Evening
26. Ten Years Gone
27. Celebration Day
28. Good Times Bad Times
29. Dazed & Confused
30. Gallows Pole

Ballot sent, but I forgot to include a subject line. Hopefully it won`t be snared by spam filters.

My poll finally sent too.

Uh, ballot that is.

Sent!

Didn't include anything from either Presence or Coda, though leaving off "Travelling Riverside Blues" and "Wearing and Tearing" caused me immense grief.

Exciting about the number of weekend ballots rolling in! I think we're up to 31.

The back-of-my-mind goal is moving to the front: enough ballots that the winner has 1000+ points.

spent some time listening to Zep today and reminding myself how much i like some songs that i didn't put on my ballot. sorry Custard Pie, Out On The Tiles, Night Flight, etc.

I pledge to vote, but the hardest decision to make is whether to spend 10 minutes or 10 hours deliberating on the ballot. These albums were drilled around the clock like times-tables in my youth. The only titles I don't know are White Summer and Baby Come on Home.

I voted based on what songs I wanted to receive votes.

I know that sounds obvious, but instead of giving "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" anything, I passed it on to a song that Great White probably had never even heard of.

(Even though BIGLY is an awesome song that deserves tons of votes.)

I gave it points fo sho.

Here's how I plan to ruin wmc's poll results when they start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baR0bBgMxBQ

lol i hope there's an 8-bit version for every track that makes the countdown.

More than i thought there were!

Damn, I just got to that 25 or 6 to 4 measure. Someone bump theirs up a spot or two for me.

I want to play this level so badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF5MnAvJFNA

wait, why do people like these video game music versions of Led Zeppelin?

for the drum sound

To achieve that drum sound, Mario simply dangled a single microphone down a ladder.

Just submitted my ballot. All the cool subtle groove rockers from Houses, PG, and Presence didn't quite make the cut.

My ballot looks like the ballot of a guy who liked rock radio in the day and appreciates Led Zep as Yardbirds offshoot and source of Robert Plant solo career.

but I think LZ are as good as any band ever, I'm just inclined towards the more complete traditional song melody-wise aspect , either folk or pop, of their songwriting.

Earlier today I was trying to express to the wife how Led Zeppelin could have been the greatest band ever if their songs had been about more, but that would have ruined part of what made them Led Zeppelin.

Here's how I plan to ruin wmc's poll results when they start.

I didn't look carefully at the 8-bit joke...I thought that was a real idea brewing for the results rollout. sorry!

There was a time when I almost bought into the idea of Robert Plant as somehow the band's weak link, but I can't imagine the band without his wails/hair/ridiculous lyrics. Like, in any other hands singing about Hobbits would come off as, I dunno, Yes or Genesis or Gentle Giant territory, but Plant somehow pulls it off without all the proggy portent. Something like "Ramble On" just revels in it, or compare the viking-rock of "Immigrant Song" to something like Iron Maiden's totally po-faced "Quest for Fire." There's an off-hand innocence and joy to Plant's lyrics; if he's ever meant to be "heavy," I don't think I've ever noticed.

He's still the least interesting element, but that's like me saying an A- is a bad grade.

Probably in a minority of one here, but for me Page is the weak link.

yeah that kind of thing is common w/ Daltrey and the Who too -- i guess when every instrumentalist is that essential and the guitarist is the main auteur behind it all, there's a temptation to downplay the frontman as window dressing, but it'd be totally naive (and maybe even rockist?) in both cases. stupid question, though, did Plant write all the lyrics or did Page or the others ever contribute? xpost

A lot of the early ones are Page's iirc - Dazed & Confused definitely is (and a pretty horrible lyric too)

I don't doubt they helped. Page did write "Tangerine" by himself.

I thought Plant's name couldn't appear on the earliest recordings because of record label nonsensel.

I hadn't heard that - I thought they were mostly Page's because the first record came out so quickly.

Probably in a minority of one here, but for me Page is the weak link.

wow wow wow, no

in some ways musicianship-wise Page can be the weakest link but that's still challop city

I dunno why exactly - I think partly the silly black magic dead ends (where's that 'zoso' upthread taken from btw?), partly for solos dissolving to noodling, and partly because of the feeling that he still lives for Zeppelin whereas Plant got a regular fun life instead.

Wait, hold on, in what ways can musicianship-wise Page be the weakest link? Because his playing (live) is sometimes called sloppy or erratic? Even with the qualification, that's a whole heaping helping of WTF right there

oooh, I just realized the Diamanda Galás/JPJ album (The Sporting Life) is on Spotify.

i just meant the sloppiness, yeah, compared to JPJ having the versatile 'secret weapon' rep and Bonham being arguably the greatest rock drummer of all time

Just found this on Wiki:

On their first album Plant received no credit for his contributions to the songwriting, a result of his previous association with CBS Records.[36]

Led Zeppelin are like the Beatles, I'd say--trying to figure who was the weak link, or who made them great, is a dead end. They're Led Zeppelin. You can't replace any of them, and when Bonham died, they were smart enough to realize that. (Cf. the Rolling Stones and the Who.)

Oh boy. Re: the black magic stuff, that poses an interesting question: even if it's silly on its own, can something that is so associated with the group and their identity (and the music itself) during their own time be completely stripped away by later generations? I guess that's so, but if you listened to them at all closer to the time they existed, that was a HUGE part of their profile. Not just the backward masking rumors, but the general feeling that the music was "evil". Maybe it longer carries that association in the wake of all the imitators, but I get the feeling now that LZ are just considered "heavy".

and how would one know they liked goblins, troll, and such from listening to their albums? I have a hard enough time making out what Plant's singing.

*trolls

I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" could place anywhere in, say, the top 20 that could possibly surprise me. It could be #1, it could be #20, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked either way.

Unless I myself can't separate out the hype at the time from the music, the music itself sounds outrageously sinister, menacing, and "evil". Dazed and Confused is not just heavy, especially the overt Paganini references with the bowing section (which made the RS mafia howl in derision), it is malevolent and still sounds it. I like them alot for this nastiness

Yeah, Zeppelin are heavy on many levels, which is part of what makes them still work for me all these years later. I think clemenza's statement holds true as well, I can't really peg anyone as the weak link in the band. Even less so than for most bands actually, as even in most bands I really love or respect, usually someone's need to "express" themselves or assert their influence tends to ruin at least a percentage of the band's output, whereas for me with Zeppelin I think they all generally serve the individual songs quite amazingly.

For all the literally countless times I've heard "Stairway," maybe six months ago or so was the first time I ever noticed the electric piano.

Never thought the evil/devil stuff had anything to do with Zeppelin, let alone with Sabbath as a contemporary frame of reference.

The black magic thing was a great aura and dead interesting for me first getting into them ... it's more that he's still pissing about with it five years later in the film, ten years later on In The Evening, in between with kids ODing in Crowley's old house, etc. while Plant's having kids and moving on. I like a bit of narrative, you know?

Yeah, I don't know, he definitely feels no need to move on, but in terms of getting kids to OD in his house, Walter Becker's got nothing on him (sorry Walt)

i get the feeling "Stairway" isn't super well regarded here, i feel like it placing surprisingly low is more likely than #1

Or rather, he's got nothing on Walter Becker (I always screw up that usage!)

Plant's musicality, particularly his unusual harmonic sensibility - his ideas about how to fit a melody over Page's chord progressions - is vastly, vastly underappreciated

Only because Stairway is the most overplayed song of all time, it could never be number #1 around here. Objectively, it probably should be number #1 in terms of one stop shopping folk/metal synthesis (it was in my bottom five IIRC!)

Plant's musicality, particularly his unusual harmonic sensibility - his ideas about how to fit a melody over Page's chord progressions - is vastly, vastly underappreciated
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned),

Agreed. See: Jimmy Page's dominance of all apsects of LZ

Plant's musicality, particularly his unusual harmonic sensibility - his ideas about how to fit a melody over Page's chord progressions - is vastly, vastly underappreciated

This took years for me to hear.

Plant, maybe more than anyone in the band, just got better and better. As a solo artist that is born out pretty well (sorry Bonham), but he was way more of a technician than most would give him credit for. Some interesting quotes from Albini somewhere about what a revelation it was for him working with Plant on that Page/Plant record in the 90s.

Also Alfred, your thoughts on "In the Evening" totally made me rethink that song. I didn't like it much as a 12-15 year old, but that album, and that song, are now real highlights for me. Especially the dialogue between JPJ and Page's guitars.

"Kashmir" is a perfect example of Plant's prowess. The guitar's just more or less a DADGAG drone, the bass not really a player in this song, Bonham keeping it straightforward, more or less. Plant's moaning melody carries much of the whole thing.

yeah i was gonna say, Plant's easily had the most creatively fruitful and ambitious musical life post-Zep, especially compared to Page seemingly happy just to play the old riffs with whatever B-listers are up for it

Whoops, DADGAD. Sorry Davey.

Plant's musicality, particularly his unusual harmonic sensibility - his ideas about how to fit a melody over Page's chord progressions - is vastly, vastly underappreciated

--------

This took years for me to hear.

― a 'catch-all', almost humorous, 'Jeez' quality (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:54 AM

me too.

Just before I sat down to do my ballot, I had the idea to reserve four spots, one for each of the four players' individual highest high points. The songs I picked for Jones and Bonham were ones that would have made my ballot anyway, but the Page & Plant picks were tracks that probably wouldn't have. (Not telling what they are until Friday afternoon.)

xp DADGAG means you broke a string
Sure is fun to say, though

Pretty awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QX7GZJRpE&feature=relmfu

I think that's the one on the DVD, the Garden show. I love when they do '50s stuff like the bit at the end. The version of they did of Eddie Cochran's "Something Else" on the early tours is so amazing, they sound like the Sex Pistols, no joke

so i may have just impulse-bought the complete everything box set to help in completing this poll.

Just forward your receipt to WmC, he'll cover it.

Just forward your receipt to WmC stet, he'll cover it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBZm5fOrHuU

Ballot sent. had to put "Bring It On Home" at the top because once the song kicks in it's just VICIOUS. Shaking my head at the "Page is the weak link" comments upthread. Ahh, ILM... (I'd call JPJ on that one)

Led Zeppelin are like the Beatles, I'd say--trying to figure who was the weak link, or who made them great, is a dead end. They're Led Zeppelin. You can't replace any of them, and when Bonham died, they were smart enough to realize that. (Cf. the Rolling Stones and the Who.)

― clemenza, Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:30 AM

trying to parse this... bc if you're saying the stones shoulda hung it up when brian jones died then no.

This book - if you can score it cheap - is pretty great. Gets deep Zep's use of mystical imagery, ritual and the musically "exotic" to gain and turn on a giant fanbase.

"deep into"

Also, to clarify: I shouldn't call JPJ the "weak" link. More like the most - well - replaceable out of the four.

trying to parse this... bc if you're saying the stones shoulda hung it up when brian jones died then no.

After Jones's death, no--they enter my favourite period at that point. (They seemed to have had no choice there, anyway, even if Jones had lived.) If they had stopped around the time Ron Wood came on board, I'd be fine with that. I know most people wouldn't agree with me there, but at the very least, Bill Wyman's departure should have been it.

If the Stones had called it quits earlier, imagine how many Mick Jagger solo albums we'd have had by now. Thank god for nostalgia.

Also, to clarify: I shouldn't call JPJ the "weak" link. More like the most - well - replaceable out of the four.

I would call Plant the weak link, but again, it's all relative. While I like him in Zep (and whoever said that thing upthread about his harmonic sense relating to Page's chords, OTM), I also think he's the single most negative influence on vocalists in the last 50 years. Not his fault, obviously. But for me it's easier to imagine Zep with Steve Marriott or Terry Reid (two of Page's original choices) than it is to imagine them without JPJ.

I can't imagine a more restrained singer leading THIS band with THIS guitarist -- Plant understood that he needed to sound like a second guitar.

hell, even a soul belter like Steve Winwood would have been a ghastly mistake.

Yeah, if you want to play what if, listen to David Coverdale to hear what could have gone terribly wrong.

Like, he's just got too much .. pique?

After Jones's death, no--they enter my favourite period at that point. (They seemed to have had no choice there, anyway, even if Jones had lived.) If they had stopped around the time Ron Wood came on board, I'd be fine with that. I know most people wouldn't agree with me there...

― clemenza, Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:55 PM

We'd have missed out on a few gems but no argument here really. Who knows what might have been if they'd hung on to Mick Taylor.

xpost Plant's epic weirdness was the real difference-maker for this act. Without the gollums and wikings Zep would been a killer pub rock act. Picture Coverdale or Marriott coming up with Kashmir.

Can I just say that spreadsheets terrify me now. I'm scared that one stray mouse click will undo a couple of hours of work.

39 ballots in.

Please arrange your ballots in descending order, 1 to 20, not 20 to 1!

Kashmir made my most hated list

Please arrange your ballots in descending order, 1 to 20, not 20 to 1!

Haha yes, this is a killer.

My ballot's coming later today, got bogged down with other things this weekend.

this is gonna go down to the wire for me 'cause i want to get in one more listen each of presence and ittod before voting. maybe some of phys graffiti as well.

i know there was some conversation earlier in this thread abt how hard matching led zep song titles to songs can be; this morning after many many years i finally learned which song is fool in the rain.

listened to the first one straight through yesterday--it's got tremendous bookends but the two willie dixon numbers really drag it down #hatingonelectricblues

True. I never got why bands (not just Zep) spent so long concentrating on that stuff.

xpost Plant's epic weirdness was the real difference-maker for this act. Without the gollums and wikings Zep would been a killer pub rock act. Picture Coverdale or Marriott coming up with Kashmir.

― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

True, I definitely don't see Marriott getting into those areas at all.

just sent my ballot, honestly considered putting stairway to heaven on both the most loved and most hated list. Ultimately decided that there are several Led Zeppelin songs that I hate way more than stairway

Hmm, haven't gotten yours yet, and it's not in the spam filter either. Did you sent to gmail or via ILXmail?

via ilxmail

No luck. Would you resend it?

just resent it through gmail

Got it -- thanks!

I wonder if "Thank You" is going to do surprisingly well in this poll.

It made my top 20, but very low.

It seems like the kinda song that could make a whole lotta ballots, low yeah but there aren't that many songs here & prolly songs from the first five albums are gonna dominate. "Thank You" used to be a classic rock/AOR staple. It's the one song for which my experience mirrors those who've had a hard time placing song names with songs; for years I didn't even identify the song with Zeppelin.

Hmmm, will be interesting to see. There are LZ ballads I rate much higher, but it is a pretty personal thing. Definitely a good song. Oddly, one of the few songs I didn't relisten to in preparing my ballot.

Haha I kinda prefer the Posies' rip "Flood of Sunshine" to the original "Thank You."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpOYFDHvwbM

Also, I did not find that "there aren't that many songs here"! I had about 45 on my list, and none of them were "Thank You", so yeah, this poll should be interesting. I am not sure that my ballot will be very representative, but we'll see. I imagine that my top 5 probably only has 1 song that is likely to place in it, but I am really happy with it.

"Flood of Sunshine" is great (love the solo, the Posies lift off!) & I'd never thought of it as a "Thank You" rip but I can see what you mean.

whew, voted

YOU HAVE 24 HOURS LEFT TO VOTE.

How many ballots so far?

Ratfucker's makes 42.

Very cool! Which of these big artist polls has had the best turnout so far? Anyone know offhand?

That's a decent turnout.

U2 got 45, so that's quite enough LZ ballots now imo. (Pavement got nearly sixty iirc).

I can't remember about the others, but the turnout here has been very gratifying. Several promised ballots still out there, I think -- jon via chi, DJP, Shakey Mo, CAD. Would love to hit 50.

Yeah, Pavement had 57 which still seems insane.

Ballot sent.

djp and shakey always promise to vote but forget, so good luck with that!

btw shakey get that jazz vote in!

DJP sent me one after the poll had been open 29 mins

Seems like 50 will be reached to me. That should make for a pretty interesting spread I think.

Really curious to see where my #1 places.

I'm sad, but not entirely surprised, that there haven't been any female voters yet.

Oh, I'm sure "Going to California" will still pick up plenty of points.

Hah! Imagine that my LZ IV tracks are not going to place very high in relation to others, but we'll see.

Ratfucker's makes 42.

― L.P. Hovercraft (WmC), Monday, August 22, 2011 12:04 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark

Sentences like this are why I love ILX.

I voted for two LZ IV tracks. Neither of them are called "Stairway to Heaven," but both should place pretty well, I think. Actually my breakdown was:

LZ I - 4
LZ II - 3
LZ III - 1
LZ IV - 2
Houses - 3
Graffiti - 3
Presence - 1
Out Door - 2
Coda - 1

should get my ballot in today, had to load a bunch of stuff onto my iPod

djp and shakey always promise to vote but forget, so good luck with that!

btw shakey get that jazz vote in!

hey c'mon now I voted in the Prince poll and the Beach Boys poll, and the Beatles one too. I dunno if I'll do the jazz one, it's so broad I don't even know where to start

I can do this Zep one tho

I'm sad, but not entirely surprised, that there haven't been any female voters yet.

I can have my wife make my ballot if it'll make you feel better

Ballot sent.

LZ I - 0
LZ II - 1
LZ III - 5
LZ IV - 3
Houses - 3
Graffiti - 3
Presence - 2
Out Door - 3
Coda - 0

I can't remember about the others, but the turnout here has been very gratifying. Several promised ballots still out there, I think -- jon via chi, DJP, Shakey Mo, CAD. Would love to hit 50.

― L.P. Hovercraft (WmC), Monday, August 22, 2011 12:11 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think i need tomorrow morning's drive to work to finish but i will get it to u on time.

shakey just make a jazz ballot, you know you can do it, and it might stop you complaining that such and such album didn't get a vote etc

oh come on now nothing stops me complaining

hahaha

just vote! prove to me you can!

you dont need to rank them, that should make it easier. You can do an unranked,ranked or split ranked/unranked. See thread for details.

god this is impossible

Right?

i really don't HATE that many zep songs was hard to get 3

ranking my 20 sucks, hard to make cuts

i couldnt do a hate ballot. the tracks ballot was very very hard

man i need more time

Well, the albums and hates are getting revealed tomorrow, so if more Tracks ballots come in between noon and, say, 10 p.m. Eastern, I'll count 'em. Deadline is still noon for parts 2 and 3.

I'm sad, but not entirely surprised, that there haven't been any female voters yet.

I would vote were it not for the fact that up until around three years ago I totally and completely hated LZ. I don't anymore. In fact, once I realized just how wrong I was I realized that I sort of love them but it's a new found love and that's still being cultivated and I don't feel comfortable choosing favorites just yet.

If you have favorites, no reason not to stand up and be counted! Even if it's a top 5 or whatever.

Ditto to Shakey's wife!

Eep - when are they due?

WMC I was going to vote but you told me on outloud that I shouldn't because I am an admitted LZ dilettante!!
I can submit the list of songs I like if you insist, though ;)

Favorite songs: tomorrow by 10 p.m. Eastern. Tomorrow by noon if you want to do the favorite albums/least favorite songs parts.

LL, I remember saying something stupid like that. Please feel free to disregard that mess and send a ballot!

Okay I know this is opening a whole can of worms here but, screw it, I wanna toss this out there. Out of morbid curiousity, I listened to one of the Black Country Communion (supergroup with Glenn Hughes, Joe Bonamassa, Bonham's kid, and Derek Sherinian) albums on Spotify. I have to say, I kind of feel like these guys do a pretty good job of hitting some of the same sweet spots as Zeppelin. Some pretty great drumming and heavy riffs mixed (oft times awkwardly, but, then again, I often felt the same wrt Zep's incorporating of "Middle Eastern" themes and ideas) with lots of keyboards and some interesting twists and turns. The biggest stumbling block being that Hughes will never ever be as powerful as Plant was, so you end of up kind focused on the instrumental work which can be a little guitar store dude wanky at times. Anyway, not claiming these guys to be "the next Zep" or even a band really worth spending a lot of time on, but a quick listen revealed them to be surprisingly closer to the spirit of Zeppelin than I expected.

xps I'd laugh if it turned out your two ballots didn't overlap at all with the other 43

xpost -- enthusiasm is not worm-can-opening! I might give it a listen while I tally votes.

I guess I'm just hesitant to raise people's expectations too high here.

just sent my ballot, pretty unsatisfied with my tracks but had to do it quick! just realized i left off "black dog" :(

You have until tomorrow! No need to be unsatisfied yet. Of course, you could spend many hours more and still be unsatisfied.

Also, I think, of all the polls so far, being a dilettante of this band is perfectly OK. I for one am pretty interested in seeing the results with exactly those kinds of ballots included, as just which songs resonate with someone that hasn't loved them since like 1984 is pretty informative and cool.

I went strictly with the sentimental/songs that I have a personal connection to angle - made my list surprisingly easy actually

48

LET'S BEAT PAVEMENT Y'ALL

How many songs have yet to receive a vote?

two of my fav things in the world currently:

1) when the band kicks in on "over the hills and far away" and goes BA-DUM..BA-DUM...that's like the most joyous thing in music

2) in the live version on "how the west was won" when plant goes "and a pocketful of gold.....ACUPULCO gooooold" is so cuet 70s stoner <3

Yeah, the best part of filling this ballot out was revisiting all of those cool moments in specific songs, none of which I had forgotten, but many of which I hadn't heard in a long time. "Over the Hills and Far Away" has a few (love the outro as well), "The Song Remains the Same" has a few, and listening to Bonham's footwork on "The Wanton Song" still astounds me all these years later. Dorky on my part, but I just can help it, I get a stupid goofy grin on my face every time I listen to that song. I can remember being 12-15 ...

man listening to the old box set on my ipod and tangerine just popped up. shoulda put this on my ballot, what a nice 70s country rock ballad

these guys could do it all, literally

"Over the Hills and Far Away" has a few (love the outro as well)

I used to jam on Houses Of the Holy on the old AC Delco tape deck that came with the '86 Cavalier. Some of those songs, like the outro to OTHAFA or the first part of "No Quarter" were just silent to my ears. It wasn't until I was a DJ playing this stuff and hearing it through headphones that I realized so many of these song portions were quiet.

Tangerine's so great; the little feint after the first chorus when it should go back to the verse but they take it to the solo instead, man

Tangerine is on my ballot.

xpost My problem with all of the various Page LZ offshoots is how close they come to LZ, which always seemed a little ... shameless to me. Like, we know what you did, Page. We know what band you were in. No need to try so hard. Do something different than, say, hiring another golden maned British belter. Bonham is an even more egregious case. We know who your dad was, dude. Now make a name for yourself doing something that sounds different than what he did. Look at what Uncle John Paul Jones has been up to. He's been all over the place. He worked with Diamanda Galas. He did the strings on "Automatic for the People." He recorded for Fripp's label. He collaborated with Nickel Creek and the Toad the Wet Sprocket guy. He seems, like Plant, I guess, totally at ease with his legacy.

"Tangerine" will be high on my ballot, but you don't know this song 'til you've heard the original version that Page did with the Yardbirds, "Knowing That I'm Losing You" (still bootleg only - it was almost included on "Cumular Limit"). I think I like it better - it has Mellotron and an entirely different melody and lyrics on the chorus. Keith Relf uncredited as a cowriter on the Zep version incidentally - he wrote the first verse.

My ballot is mostly in place but there's a few songs I need to relisten to, mostly side 4 of PG and on Coda, that I can't quite recall. I'm sure I'll rememeber them by 3 seconds in but Zep confuses me with all the song titles that don't appear in the song.

I need to choose the 3 hate songs too. I don't hate any of them - Zep really never really had any all-out stinkers (I can't say the same about the Beatles), but they're a certainly a few that do nothing for me. And one of them is on my favorite album....

And, of course, JPJ produced the Butthole Surfers ("Independent Worm Saloon"). Gibby and Diamanda vs. David Coverdale, hmmm

that one song on "outrider" by jimmy page with plant singing on it was pretty good, or so i thought at the time, haven't heard it since i was a zep obsessed kid

Has anyone listened to the whole Page/Plant album that came out in the 90s? I remember hearing some songs on the radio when it came out that sounded surprisingly good, probably the best Page stuff I had heard since the Zeppelin days.

Yeah, it was pretty good all round. Don't think I'd heard the full LZ catalogue by then though, so it's been crowded out in my memory.

"Emerald Eyes" Page's only real moment of brilliance on Outrider, and even that takes awhile to really get going. A few decent if unspectacular hard-rock songs, largely forgettable.

Cool xpost, thanks. I'll add it to the list.

What do any of you guys think of that live album Page did with The Black Crowes? I'll admit that I'm one of those rare birds that actually rates the Crowes as being worth anything, but I thought it was actually a lot better than it had any right to be. Defintiely needed a better drummer, but it wasn't too bad.

I heard "Ten Years Gone" off that album on the radio once & thought it was pretty good! then I went home & listened to PG & it was even better!

Well, yeah, of course! :)

weird I had never even heard of (much less heard) this before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEocukvkkSM

not particularly great, more of a curio

I'm sad, but not entirely surprised, that there haven't been any female voters yet.

there weren't for the beach boys poll either. but this is a sorta aspie game on a site w/ a significant male majority. (also it's led zep.)

Somebody get Tori Amos on the horn...

That's a very insensitive remark!

I think there were 3/30 female votes in the documentary poll. As per High Fidelity, I think the list/poll thing is a very male mindset. Why, I don't know--and don't think I want to know, because I'm sure the answer doesn't reflect well on males.

U2 got two, plus quite a few Nicks/Jamies/etc whom I choose to believe are girls.

It's weird, because in my experience females like to organize and schedule everything--they just don't seem interested in organizing lists of songs and films.

(Clemenza has now entered the Witness Protection Plan for his own safety.)

in my experience women tend to concentrate on useful sorts of organisation

How many songs have yet to receive a vote?

― Ismael Klata, Monday, August 22, 2011 3:02 PM (1 hour ago)

7

He seems, like Plant, I guess, totally at ease with his legacy.

While I agree Jones and Plant have kept pushing themselves, why would Page's insistence on choosing projects that sound like LZ signify unease with his legacy? Maybe that's all he knows.

I've got (90s album) No Quarter on just now. It's interesting texturally with north african influences and so forth, though the tracks are a bit long. There's also little evidence of Page as Page 'til Since I've Been Loving You - the effect is of a completely assured Plant solo project.

"Baby Come On Home" sounds alot like "Long Time Comin'" Plant's solo 45 from 1966

Just sent my ballot. I'm not very satisfied with my lists but don't think I'll ever be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQFCiTNoZ0

This is what Percy could have sounded like throughout his career had he not crossed paths with Page!

u r the sunshine in my growing

Thinking of doing a Barry White or Lou Rawls poll just to bring in the chicks

Interestingly, I'm not really sure that my songs list backs up my albums list. I might need to reconsider how I rank things.

Sund4r's ballot is a game-changer!

xp!

Mine didn't either, really. I was struggling with just how much weight I wanted to give the live versions of the songs, but in the end I decided that Led Zep meant the most to me via classic rock radio as a kid and getting the box set in high school, so I ranked the songs via the studio albums - even though I find the live albums to be the ones I like the most now.

I think it makes sense for the song and album lists to not match up. These songs exist in two forms for me. Heard on radio most of my life, or heard as part of a complete album (for better PG, or worse II) since whenever I got around to buying and listening to that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCD_ruVaFOQ

This is the Kashmir from No Quarter, which I reckon is pretty full and great. It's a really interesting backing for Plant to bed into - the guitars that come in a couple of times towards the end are fine and all, but the rest of the tapestry's so much richer. You can see why he's got no particular interest in looking back, let alone reforming for more than the exceptional occasion.