Lou Reed & Metallica - Lulu Poll

i'm probably not going to sit on this album for very long in all honesty, so best jump in with a vote while it's all still fresh in my mind. heart says "dragon" or "little dog".

weird, right now "little dog" is honestly the only one i know i wouldn't vote for

I'm still listening to the ILX pre-covers! Only afterwards will I listen to the real album....

Oh god yeah!

"I AM THE DOG!! I AM THE DOG!!"

and that loop, can't lose it!

Junior Dad

why do i cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat on me??

i wish this poll didn't close before the release date, i want to listen to it on my stereo

yeah srsly wtf w/ this poll only being open for a week, markers

markers is going to do a weekly poll of this record, right?

^^this guy gets it

^^

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Junior Dad the obvious choice at this point

out tomorrow!

It's got some catching up to do!

haven't listened to this album yet. that doesn't disqualify me from voting here does it?

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

voted the view, but if anything this poll will hopefully persuade people to at least skip to the end before giving up on the whole thing

just noticed the legend for review ratings in the latest game informer ;)

yeah, imho, Disc 2 >>>>> Disc 1, although the last couple tracks on Disc 1 are pretty good too

i voted on this early, and i still think "junior dad" is amazing, but i think i'd vote "pumping blood" or "frustration" now

yeah i might switch to mistress dread now, but junior dad

just noticed the legend for review ratings in the latest game informer ;)

― goole, Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i lobbied for it to be for 11/10 but got overruled!

lol

didn't actually notice it myself the first time, tipped by a comment here:

http://youtu.be/rheezx7gzwA

danggg -- sales figures are IN

MEGADETH – TH1RT3EN
Last week: 41,977 (debut)

REED*LOU & METALLICA – LULU
Last week: 13,320 (debut)

rip

Lou's never been about sales though. Excited to hear all 13,320 Lulu inspired bands in the upcoming months.

but . . . metallica!!

metalliwho?

Can't put a butterfly in a jar, haters

tbh in the current climate i'm kind of amazed that an album this fucked up (a double CD for that matter) sold that much!

wikipedia:

Death Magnetic debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, selling 490,000 copies in just three days of availability.

i guess i just figured that more metallica fans would run out and buy it just because their band was involved, but tbh i haven't even bought a copy so who the hell knows

Wonder how many of those 13,320 are deluxe.

(Also wonder how many hundreds of thousands of copies they pressed.)

if you believe wikipedia, st. anger is double platinum, which is heartening

(double platinum in the us)

Pretty sure the ILX pre-covers album moved more copies than Lulu.

haha kinda doubt that

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/664326_10151313908245953_1994532525_o.jpg

the last thing we can believe in- LULU

i will donate $5 million to a charity of mitt romney's choice if he sings "junior dad" during his concession speech.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/tasteofcountry.com/files/2012/08/Mitt-Romney1.jpg

EVERYBODY SING!

Would you pull me up
Would you drop the mental bullet
Would you pull me by the arm up
Would you still kiss my lips
Hiccup, the dream is over
Get the coffee, turn the lights on
Say hello to junior dad
The greatest disappointment
Age withered him and changed him
Into junior dad
Psychic savagery

it really is perfect for mitt. how did lou know that it would be so perfect?

sequel

we need one

LULU2

feat U2

Lulu II: Kirk Hammett and the Chamber of Secrets

pumping blood should have gotten votes

off the pump off the thing

if i pump blood in the sunshine
and you wear a leather box of azaleas

SUPREME VIOLATION
OH JACK OH JACK OH JACK I BESEECH YA

i for real pump LULU In the hooptie on my way to work fairly regularly

oh, wouldn't it be lovely?

if i were a small town girl

"TRAPPED on the IS-le of DOC-tor mo-REAU" gets caught in my head at least once a week. genuinely love this album.

c'mon james!

would've voted "pumping blood"

I'm unsure as to WHAT I would have voted for on this... I think I only managed to make it through this album in its entirety once. My god, was it a memorable listen though... for possibly all the wrong reasons!

does lou know about this
Meet Lulu: An App That Lets Girls Rate Guys Anonymously
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/22/meet-lulu-an-app-that-lets-girls-rate-guys-anonymously.html

i can kind of imagine Lou singing: "An App That Lets Girls Rate Guys Anonymously!!!" with bewildered outrage on Lulu.

hahaha

i still think "brandberg gate" is p good

i can kind of imagine Lou singing: "An App That Lets Girls Rate Guys Anonymously!!!" with bewildered outrage on Lulu.

― tylerw, Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And with her app
That let's girls rate guys...
Anonymously!!
ANONYMOUSLY!!!

One fucks with, you don't actually care

Good album would be "Brandenburg Gate" and "Junior Dad" along with the ILM versions of "Little Dog" and "Pumping Blood."

http://b4t.ru/images/pictures/lou-reed-metallica.jpg

the last gang in town

Needs Vuitton bag and it's set for 2 pages inside the front cover of Vanity Fair.

Kirk Hammett always looks like he's about to cry

lars ulrich always looks like he's about so say something dumb

IMO short-haired Metallica circa 2013 look a lot dumber than short-haired Metallica circa Load.

kirk's hair is longer than it was then and rob's hair is not short

Focusing on Hetfield and Lars there probably

sunny successor just got mad at me for a suggestion I made regarding larz.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1422284!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/breaking-bad-season-5.jpg

So the "Enter Sandman" joke's already been done, but no one's made any cracks about the Black Album yet.

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=824265

underrated masterpiece

If it wasn't clear untill now..

"Junior Dad" is so gorgeous don't know if I could take it right now.

i listened to it earlier tonight and i don't recommend it

The biggest problem is that it's front loaded with the worst songs, scaring people off from even attempting the much superior tracks on the second disc. I mean I still fucking hate "Brandenburg Gate" and totally get why someone would be all, "fuck if I'm going to sit through 11 and 20 minute long songs of this shit".

But "Junior Dad" is fucking amazing, yes.

I mean I still fucking hate "Brandenburg Gate"

what

does everyone else feel that way? or similarly?

because i don't

brandenburg gate is a jam wtf

cheat on me is my joint though

"Brandenburg Gate" is my favorite song on the album. but i can see the argument that that and especially "The View" kind of confirmed some negative assumptions some people had about the project where the record opening with other songs might've made it more accessible to some critics. but not sounding eager to please is part of LULU's greatness imo.

really love that they saved the best riff on the album for the second-to-last song

I love Lou's lyrics on "Brandenburg Gate", but James' "small town girl"s really ruin it for me. I just think that one represented the worst of what Metallica brought to the table (see what I did there?) and ruined what could've been one of the better songs.

I can go back to this record and my feelings of "Am I really hearing this?" are as intense as the first day it came out, if not more so now that Lou is gone.

the hate for this album was so weird

it prevails

people r small minded and dumb as shit.

I'd go on about genre snobbery, classism and lack of imagination among music writer types, but I'm lazy.

Have noticed a lot of ppl I know talking abt giving this another go thanks to that Bowie comment (and a few ppl saying "Yeah I like it too!"

*)

I've been listening to this a lot lately. It holds up.

the opening lines of junior dad are just so incredible to me.

Would you come to me
If I was half drowning
An arm above the last wave

Would you come to me
Would you pull me up
Would the effort really hurt you
Is it unfair to ask you
To help pull me up

yeah i really thought about that song after seeing his sister talk about the ECT he went through and all the terrible mental health "treatment" he received as a child

that motherfucker anthony fantano* in his vlog review of bish bosch said that the lyrics on that albun were even more "meaningless" than lou reed's lyrics on lulu (har har). to me, so much of lulu seems raw and even transparently personal.

*sorry if you post here, but really dude

and yeah, the part of junior dad when he talks about looking in the mirror as an older person and seeing his father's reflection -- "say hello to junior dad" -- is just so chilling. people talk about reed's decline but over the years he really refined his clipped, conversational verse into something so pure and weaponlike. "junior dad" is the worthy heir to "berlin" for sure even if the rest of the album is uneven (with some other great moments too!)

from day one i have basically advocated the idea that lulu is his lyrical peak, there's the feeling that so much of what he'd been working toward throughout his career is finally being realized

it's also a notable album for metallica, the fast/heavy parts are the first time they sound like a honest to god rock band playing a room together since like, jeez, master of puppets probably, and i know lou didn't really let them rehearse so it's very instinctual; they sound like they are holding on for dear life (C'MON JAMES!) instead of cutting and pasting riffs in protools

today i noticed trujillo's really subtle bass work in the opening of "cheat on me"

lol remember lulu

lolu

i'm a passionateless wave upon the sea

In a piece published on the day of Reed's death, Robert Christgau wrote that Lulu "probably didn't get enough" "mazel tov" from critics.[39]

Mistress Dread is awesome btw

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S03E19/401783.jpg?lines=A+puny+body+and+a+tiny+dick%0AA+little+dog+can+make+you+sick

lol

shout out to ilxor cbesinger for that

lol

if we polled this again I imagine there'd be more Iced Honey and Brandenburg Gate votes,

comma nothing

I'm pumping blood
Like a common state work-ah

C'mon James

What?

Wake up

The dream is over

I know three babies with the name Lulu right now. The Lulu Generation.

Post from last night inspired by watching a 2013 Lou show in Prague where they do some Lulu stuff and a really great set of favs and obscurities. On Amazon Prime, really awesome

Oh nice! Yeah he was pulling out some random old tunes towards the end...

Wow man, thanks! That concert on Amazon was really,really good. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say, that besides the VU, that was the finest backup band I've seen/heard with our Lou. In some ways it was reminiscent of Brian Wilson's Pet Sounds/Smile tours. There must be a sort of mutual appreciation society thingy that goes on. The younger musicians look up to the auteur and want his praise. While the auteur gets a group who are willing to execute his every whim, and give his music a nice shot in the arm, energy wise etc.

And next i want to give Lulu another try. Those songs were among the best stuff, in that film. Also, i don't believe I've ever seen/heard Lou so relaxed. He always used to (seemingly nervously adlibbing all sorts of "ooo-ooo, hey-heys, and nah-nahs, between and sometimes in lieu of actual lyrics, which I hated. There was very little of that here. There was a ton of it in that VU reunion CD/video, if u need an example. Not a Mettalica fan at all, but I will give it a try.

Post from last night inspired by watching a 2013 Lou show in Prague where they do some Lulu stuff and a really great set of favs and obscurities. On Amazon Prime, really awesome

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:09 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Haha the best part of this is the deep cuts are like...deep cut doesn't even really do it justice...squeezed in between "Waiting For the Man" and a Lulu song is..."Senselessly Cruel" from "Rock N'Roll Heart"!

this must be from when the guy from barenaked ladies was in lou's band.

Hmm maybe i will watch this

is there an audio boot somewhere? (or a recommended recording from a similar show?)

Oh, wouldn’t it be lovely?

Sorry Niels, don't have a lead on a boot at the moment. I would b interested in one as well. I still can't believe how good that was/is. I will certainly let ILM know, if I find any in the future. I can easily imagine Tylerw posting one on his wonderfully hip (in the original non pejorative sense) boot mp3 blog.

"Hip" in the sense that, the musical taste as displayed there is exquisite. And the writing style in the posts is friendly, informative, and intersting. P.s. I've been a lurker here for years and am very happy to have finally joined a couple weeks ago.

Welcome! And you’re posting in this thread, so you’re already doing something right.

thanks for the kind words -- i don't think i have any 2011 Lou bootlegs, actually. I do have somewhere a tape of Lou and Laurie Anderson playing a duo show with a handful of (radically different) Lulu tunes included.

I watched that concert doc on Amazon prime last week -- pretty good! Kind of an interesting vulnerability onstage for Lou, and yeah lots of weird song choices.

welcome vryna!

#teamlulu always needs more members

strange to see rob wasserman jamming on things like "mistress dread" but i guess that guy was up for pretty much anything

In a way the VU to Lulu tour (best name ever) seems almost like a bit of the throwback to 70s Lou, with a big band, horns, backing vocals, long extended jams on just about every song. Lou esp is killing in on the Lulu tunes.

The band is so weird, dudes from Ratdog, Zorn, Barenaked Ladies...

totally. i actually think a great book would be like a big oral history interviewing Lou sidemen/women from over the decades.

i'm sure fernando saunders has good stories. and michael fonfara ... i just looked him up and saw he's canadian too -- Lou had a thing for keyboard players from up there i guess. that canuck soul, right?

where was primary female backing vocalist? (she kinda looked like she should be fronting a late 90s band that liked Get Up Kids a lot), she was great

Havent checked the Prague recording but I attended the Amsterdam gig of the VU to Lulu tour. Joan as Policewoman was the support act and did (some) vocals during Lou's gig.

I'm sure Mike Rathke has seen some shit in his time

I bet a signed album of this (if there are any) will go for a zillion dollars.

Checked eBay to see if any are out there, but all I found was

http://vinylsamongotherthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/LuluFront.jpg

Jesus, are we going to have an upswing of ironic praise of this turd now?

we always liked it

amen

'You never had aLittle Dog !'

I've been aggressively consistent in my praise of this record, which I tipsily referred to as "my Sticky Fingers" on Saturday night

there were a few that could see Lulu for what it was....us...David Bowie, few others

i still want to write a book about it, even after having my proposal rejected by 33 1/3

what's that crowdfunding platform I keep hearing about

Feel like if we polled this again, “Junior Dad” would win again.

i mean, rightly, it's a tremendous piece of work

probably my favorite piece of music released this decade so far

A more interesting poll for this record might be second favorite track, not first.

Jessica Troy's viola is as primary a part of "Junior Dad" as anything else.

Released on 11/1 missed the anniversary :(

i still want to write a book about it, even after having my proposal rejected by 33 1/3

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, May 8, 2017 2:28 PM (one year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

would love to read this

The DeCurtis Lou bio gives a decent amount of coverage to Lulu, Lou was pretty hurt by the response, though maybe the (non) response to "Ecstasy" bothered him more.

Both are great records!

Amazing that in the day and age of everyone overthinking and market testing and "curating" everything a record has perverse and off-putting as Lulu was allowed to happen

I still like this album a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1VyWW5hnXY

holy shit

it's uhhh pretty amazing (especially the last minute or so)

i love and miss lou reed

It seems like a few of these songs, "Junior Dad" in particular, were kicking around for a long time before Lulu, I wonder if there are any demo recordings that might see the light of day eventually.

There are couple of times when very Lulu-esque noises/almost riffs churn up on the live performance of Creation of The Universe MM3 live record. I think this was obv something Lou spent a long time thinking about.

Looping back to my earlier comment, per the DeCurtis bio Lou was basically in "fuck it" mode after Ecstasy, a record he kind of slaved over & poured himself into and was met with "yeah another new Lou record, big whoop" & he retired essentially from making straight up Lou Reed records, which is why he did the Raven & then the Berlin tour, but it seems like he still wrote songs, etc.

Anyway I am very curious to hear early vers of these tunes

that laurie version is really great

It seems like a few of these songs, "Junior Dad" in particular, were kicking around for a long time before Lulu

yes, they were all (?) originally written for robert wilson's production of the frank wedekind plays, but my impression is that the initial material was much more droney and abstract. iirc metallica came in later bc they had the enormous sound lou wanted for the words

yeah, there are early junior dads stretching back to 2008 or thereabouts ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhaUDl4jbS0

there's probably enough stuff for LULU: RELULUED ... 10th anniversary release?

thank you thread revive for inspiring me to rewrite my book proposal

brad, i will buy your book

if i ever get an agent i'll tell them we already have one book sold

make that 2!

i still have never listened to this album. maybe today is the day

xp Only two people bought Brad Nelson's book about Lulu, but both of them went on to write their own books about Lulu

Zero votes for "Cheat On Me" wtf guys

why do we cheat on ourselves

The window broke the silence of the matches
The smoke effortlessly floating

Is it unfair to ask you
To help pull me up

RIP Lulu producer Hal Willner

Listening to the boot of the VU to Lulu live set from Lou's last tour and right away on Brandenburg Gate, which otherwise sounds fine, the backing vox are just regular people singing "small town girl", like in a way completely normal people who went to college for music but also listen to Can and have a lot of good dub records would sing it and not the over-the-top "small-TOWN GRRRL!"s that we endlessly clowned James on for becuz he is a maniac and right there that is why Metallica is the ONLY band who could have made this record with Lou because Lulu is a record about maniacs, written by a maniac and played by maniacs. It isn't a good or polite or pretty record, it's a mean, weird grotesque played by and for people who sleep on a mattress on a floor and think about Lemmy as they fall asleep and first thing in the morning and have two different bullet-belts, a nice one and one for everyday wear.

otm!!!!!

SMALL TOWN GIRL

Say whatever else you want but you can never claim that when James sang it he didn't mean SMALL TOWN GIRL with every fucking fiber of his being

great post

lulu for life

I will say any concert that ends with Sad Song into Junior Dad better have grief counsellors in the fucking lobby

One of my favorite ilm posts in some time, v v v otm.

two different bullet-belts, a nice one and one for everyday wear

This in particular.

I actually got the impression that the people who liked this were Lou fans, not metal or Metallica fans.

...and sure, Lou obviously knows something about weird, mean grotesques also.

Lou fans, not metal or Metallica fans.

― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:46 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

all of the above, myself

surely the critics who pilloried this record love lou reed

Yeah, all the above for me too. Although when this came out I was def more of a VU and '70s Lou fan, it was actually this album that nudged me towards finally checking out his later solo stuff with more intention.

It seems to me that his reviews had been tepid since Magic and Loss 17 years earlier. None of the critics should have been "shocked" or disappointed by the lyrics on Lulu if they had listened to Ecstasy and The Raven.

I wonder if there is anyone (not a Metallica die-hard) who thinks this is Lou's only good record?

Listening to LULU right now

my small town girl

you're just a small town girl who's gonna give lulu a whirl

there is no time for guilt
or second guessing

and here's that VU > LULU set from 2012 chris mentioned: https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/641027816435089408/lou-reed-heineken-music-hall-amsterdam
it's good!

Yes! It is very good, the other funny thing on it is a regular human being drummer (a really good one at that) attempting to play Lars's parts on Mistress Dread

haha, yeah — it's pretty funny, Lou's drummer really has to handle a lot of different modes, from moe tucker's ultra-minimal "waiting for the man" thing to "mistress dread" ...

FYI Lulu headz — Metallica is selling the deluxe version for a song over here: https://www.metallica.com/store/clearance/?start=0&sz=12

Great revive

If only you could stream this! (I loaned this record to someone ages ago and never got it back.)

Well, surely Junior Dad is up on YouTube

it's on streaming now!

It is? I just checked Apple Music and didn’t see it

ah it's on Spotify they probably shelled out big bucks for the exclusive haha

Aha

I just stumbled on this

https://heinaliandmattfinney.bandcamp.com/track/junior-dad

Listened to the actual “Junior Dad” for the first time in a while and it reminded me (somewhat) of this underheralded LP, a Jane’s Addiction side project

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=961Cv9KsJUE

FYI Lulu headz — Metallica is selling the deluxe version for a song over here: https://www.metallica.com/store/clearance/?start=0&sz=12

― tylerw, Thursday, January 28, 2021 6:56 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Unfortunately, $51 shipping to the UK

Weird that Lulu isn't on Apple Music now becuz it certainly was at one point, fortunately I have it on at least two other formats, phew.

Forever sad that Lou & Metallica never did a real live show of this, only this German tv show deal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF2os5l2Nog

Unless tyler knows of an actual show and he's holding out on us!

i think that is it in terms of live Lulu w/ Metallica ... should we be hoping for a lavish 10th anniversary boxed set this year. (I jest, but I do think that there are probably early recordings of these songs w/o metallica ... he was playing some of them live in the years prior.)

I believe they did a spot on 'Later', certainly they did a version of "White Light White Heat"

I'm not a big fan of either Metallica or Lou Reed, but I am listening to this for the first time in a couple of years and man do I love this album.

I still remember my first listen of this when it was released or leaked. I was listening totally ready to make fun of it (and remember laughing at James's singing of "home town girl" and Lou's "C'mon James!"). I think it was sometime during "Mistress Dread" that I started thinking that this isn't bad actually. By the second half of the album I was totally into it.

I'm skipping Iced Honey though, that song just doesn't work

I think it was sometime during "Mistress Dread" that I started thinking that this isn't bad actually. By the second half of the album I was totally into it.

― silverfish, Friday, January 29, 2021 12:40 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

my first listen was the same experience

i have sung "iced honey" at karaoke it's great

I could see it being fun at karaoke

The biggest mistake they made in marketing this was not elucidating the narrative framework and characters. Not that it would have made the record a big seller, but it would have been a defence against people saying "this is just Lou's sex fantasy", etc. etc.

As it is, they threw out this long, wordy album and let the world make sense of it as best it could (not very generously).

I played it and liked it.

But if I try to recall any of it, it's only the ilx versions I recall.

In the end, it was an ordinary heart

I'm just a woman who likes men
But this is something else
I feel such stirrings

Supreme violation

psychic savagery

i want lovers like the rain
so many of them, so much the same

I would cut my legs and tits off
When I think of Boris Karloff and Kinski
In the dark of the moon
It made me dream of Nosferatu
Trapped on the isle of Doctor Moreau
Oh wouldn't it be lovely

This has been the quickest ten years ever.

"pumping blood" would be a really good wrestler entrance theme

Finally spiritually ready to listen to Lulu

this is the greatest journey a man can make

^^^^^^^

I love that Lou Reed loved it. It's wild that the tracks on the second half of the record have Spotify plays between like 160k - 260k, those are indie numbers.

It's easy to see why fans on both sides hated or wrote it off. It's not cool, it's loose in the areas where Metallica is usually tight, it feels tight where Lou usually has a looseness, it's lyrical and sexual in ways that are antithetical to how people traditionally listen to metal (maybe there are some goth or doom exceptions to this? Idk). I'm honestly surprised it hasn't had its critical re-evaluation yet, we've even passed the 10th anniversary (!).

Junior Dad flies by, shortest 20 min song ever.

Also the best 20 min song

I remain convinced that this will one day be as revered as, say, Trout Mask Replica: the “difficult” album that slowly worms its way into the canon.

I would cut my legs and tits off when that happens

the audience for an old man warbling about pussy over disconnected riffing is always going to be a niche one

Jokermen podcast finally did their Lulu reclamation episode, after doing every other Lou Reed & John Cale record.

https://podcastaddict.com/jokermen/episode/171949829

There's a Patreon ep with Robert Trujillo...would have been amazing to get Lars, but that's pretty cool.

A little off topic, but Laurie Anderson plays Junior Dad live at most of her concerts. If anyone is on the fence of seeing her live, its worth it just for that.

psychic savagery

just heard she did Junior Dad at Big Ears

for the second time!

She played it again in LA last night, but cut off the recording before "get the coffee / turn the lights on / say hello to Junior Dad," which for me was always the climax. Still deeply moving, though... and I love that she recognizes the power of this in-some-ways absurd song from this in-many-ways absurd project.

!

she also projected some of her own lyrics from "World Without End" in the background:

When my father died we put him in the ground
When my father died it was like a whole library burned down

Yeah that was genuinely moving, having a Lou presence in the set.