Least talented guy who somehow made it into a great band

Curious to hear your thoughts on this.

and he/she can't have only been in for like 2 weeks

what a great thread!

just, so fun and fascinating

Bez

damnit frogbs!

Would Al Jardine be a contender for this?

pwned

http://www.kweevak.com/2000-graphics-articles/2009-07-31-yes-asia-03.jpg

al jardine's written a few good songs in his life and makes 'help me rhonda' what it is, he def would just be some rando if it weren't for the beach boys but there are plenty of people in famous bands w/ less to their name

Ringo Starr

http://vml1.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Onabolu.jpg?9d7bd4

I think Ringo was actually pretty good at what he did. He was clearly overshadowed, but he wasn't untalented.

"guy" is not shorthand for "person" fyi

http://www.nndb.com/people/671/000031578/sid-vicious-sm.jpg

Michael Ivins of the Flaming Lips

let's not get our panties in a bind xpost

i obviously didn't mean to imply that there aren't talentless women. in fact, i can think of many.

what do you have against Poliopolice, guys

Albert Hammond Jr.

polio, police, what's not to love?

I'm America's badboy

Richie Manic

Oh come on, Richey may not have been able to sing or play guitar, but he was a pretty good lyricist

Mickey Finn's amateur bongo work somehow enhanced T Rex by its very amateurishness.

Are we really going to have to go over the Ringo stuff again?

Also how is the answer not Sid Vicious?

this book co-written by sid's mum would have you believe he co-wrote all the songs...

Or John Densmore?

The answer IS Sid Vicious. But it's still a fun game to play.

Jack White

John Densmore? I can see how someone might not like the Doors, but Densmore is a great and very innovative drummer.

Jeffrey Hammond Hammond

Michael Clarke?

Brian Rosenworcel

Albert Hammond Jr.

eh, i think he was probably one of the more talented Strokes

I do like the Doors!

Jim Morrison.

Jeep MacNichol

Jim DiSpirito

Bob Weir (at least int eh beginning)

sick mouthy otm

Although, the "great"ness of the Doors is up for debate.

Stevie Nicks

(lol j/k everybody be cool)

Mark E. Smith

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i keed, i keed

it's gotta be a "singer" though

greatest gap between one member vs every other member i'd give to daltrey tbh

axl rose (it kills the teenage me to say this)

xpost

^ This.

Stevie Nicks

― it's smdh time in America (will), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:55 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^horrible opinion

also john densmore is like the MOST talented member of the doors!

lol tolhurst?
although he has writing credits on most of the earlier Cure stuff so I dunno

i think every member of stevie-era fleetwood mac is ridiculously talented.

Say what you want about Axl Rose, I think he actually made G'N'R interesting through his menacing, paranoid lyrics. And songs like "Estranged" are so weird, insular, and singular that I can hardly imagine anyone else coming up with that stuff. And it's good stuff too.

plus steven adler was in that band and then dizzy whoever was in that band

no, i agree. i don't think steven adler could have written "estranged."

densmore is the hold out who made them go w/ 'doors of the 21st century' right? god bless him for that alone.

does andy fletcher do anything in depeche mode?

I think he was always the business guy, I seem to recall that Gahan joked they needed to have a fax machine on stage for him.

if you read lyrics to sweet child o' mine, axl appears to have lived in a treehouse made of human hair.

i thought the answer was always bill wyman. didn't they let him in the band cuz he was the only person they knew with an amp or something? and mick and everyone else ended up playing bass on the records.

yeah but he brought the stones a touch of glamour

There are definitely a few key Stones songs that Wyman doesn't play on ("Live With Me" is Keith, "Tumbling Dice" is Mick Taylor), but he had his moments ("Miss You").

Were Wire called Wire when they had that other guy in the band...?

Michael Clarke?

wtf at this thread, Al Jardine rules

Were Wire called Wire when they had that other guy in the band...?

― dlp9001, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 23:38 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yep.

bass players are usually the luckiest members of a band, no? i mean, lots of people can play bass better than a lot of famous bass players. like that guy from U2 or any one of a million other examples.

I don't know if Lol Tolhurst was untalented or just useless. (x-post)

What about Andrew Ridgeley?

wham weren't a band though. i'm guessing someone thought it was a good idea to have two guys to up the cute factor and sell records. i mean, he did his job.

Ozzy

Bob Nastanovich?

wait do i actually have to come in here to say krist novoselic?

bass players are usually the luckiest members of a band, no? i mean, lots of people can play bass better than a lot of famous bass players. like that guy from U2 or any one of a million other examples.

that's not what he's saying at all. the truth is if a band has a barely competent bassist it's far less likely to be noticed or adversely impact their career than if they have a shitty singer, drummer, etc. there are probably a lot of seriously talentless bassists out there that have gotten by just keeping their heads down and keeping it simple (or letting the guitarist track a lot of their parts in the studio).

You mean like Sid Vicious or Arthur "Killer" Kane? Fair enough, but for every one of those guys there are dozens of guys doing a good job of coming up with a simple but interesting part and playing it effectively who run the risk of being called "barely competent"

I'd argue that Vicious (didn't Matlock play most of his studio parts anyway?) and Kane are exactly the sort of barely competent guys who stumbled into simple interesting parts

James you're acting like somebody said that there's no such thing as a good bassist or that the only good bassist is a slap bass showboat. which is just a big leap in logic.

surely vicious was only in the band because he was lydon's pal and they thought they needed a fourth member? it's been too long since i've read 'england's dreaming' to remember the details.

Then you'd be arguing rong, since it turns out that Steve Jones played almost all the basslines on Anarchy and a Dolls roadie named Peter Jordan filled in for Arthur a good deal of the time, in the studio and on stage

Isn't the legend of Bob Nastanovich that his talents are simply unclassifiable?

Then I retract the compliments. They suck. I'm glad they died.

hahahah

bob is vital to pavement live and reasonably far from the worst musician i've ever seen take a stage

some dude, I was really reacting to the initial example given, Adam Clayton. I'm not the biggest U2 fan, but I think that guy had turned in lots of good bass lines- "Mysterious Ways" to pick one obvious example.

yeah...people like to bag on U2's rhythm section but love em or hate em i think they're just right for the band

Then I retract the compliments. They suck. I'm glad they died.

besides, you needed one guy to exercise the pussy control.

xpost

bobby gillespie

maybe they're neither "great" nor "a band"

bez is kinda the "lock thread" answer

I'd think D'Arcy would probably qualify to Scott's reasoning, but she did look cool and Corgan is pretty much a control freak that did everything (supposedly).

I'd figure most of those dudes in those old UK bands were all pretty proficient, keeping in mind that there was just a heck of alot less bands and musicians playing rock at that time. It's not like now where every third dude is either in a band or was in one in college.

When I think of Arthur Kane, I always think of the first story on this page
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19830601&id=UmoaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KSoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6983,9614

when i think of 'old UK bands' i think of a lot of British invasion or punk/new wave bands that were not especially technically proficient

i think the drummer for U2 had a lot to do with creating their sound. but just about anyone could have been their bass player. being a bass player in most popular bands is like winning the lottery. coldplay could probably come out on stage with a different bass player every night and nobody would even notice. for every geezer butler or entwistle their is, uh, that guy and that other guy. bill wyman was the LUCKIEST MAN ALIVE.

and if the guy from U2 had some good basslines its probably cuz someone else told him how to play it and made him play it that way.

no offense to the U2 guy. he does his job and everything. and is a quiet and not at all obnoxious supermodel-loving millionaire.

"I'd figure most of those dudes in those old UK bands were all pretty proficient, keeping in mind that there was just a heck of alot less bands and musicians playing rock at that time."

i don't know what you mean by "old", but there were literally five million bands in the U.K. in the 60's and 70's. 4000 per square mile.

who did the bassing on "Mother's Little Helper"? I think it's pretty cool.

That the whole punk/new wave thing ultimately turned out to be "yeah, some of the bands just started to play yesterday, but the rest of us are just trying to avoid single note guitar blues rock cliches and playing Chuck Berry, funk or noise riffs over some cool R&B, reggae or 50s rock and roll grooves"

and if the guy from U2 had some good basslines its probably cuz someone else told him how to play it and made him play it that way.

bez is kinda the "lock thread" answer

except for the "great band" part

i've never watched any 5 hour U2 documentaries. does it seem like adam has much of a say in how the band sounds or does anything?

the nirvana guy also one of the luckiest guys on earth but hey he was there and he got kurdt out of bed for shows so he paid his dues. and he was nice enough to go away after kurdt died. wish i could say the same for the drummer.

in the Simpsons episode where U2 guest stars, Bono, the Edge, and Larry Mullen Jr decide to go a bar, and Adam Clayton asks if he can come. Bono says "um... no."

adam is u2's harry crane.

there is one infamous '93 show U2 did w/o Clayton because he was too hung over to play

Give 'em a break, it's hard to get over a hangover by 9pm.

plus, nowadays you can't even hear a bass on records/CDs. its like they aren't there. you could definitely get away with only having a touring bass player. no need to actually pay a guy to sit in the studio. any guitarist could play the parts easily. on modern rock records. they still make modern rock records, right?

they happen alright, but in kind of a vacuum.

this thread actually made me want to start another, about really sloppy/shitty playing on pre-Pro Tools rock hits. sometimes i hear an old Offspring song on the radio and just am amazed by how terrible their drummer is.

I can't think of another band that replaced someone as good as Matlock with a player as bad as Sid.
http://www.worleygig.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Sex-Pistols-Matlock.jpg

i've never watched any 5 hour U2 documentaries. does it seem like adam has much of a say in how the band sounds or does anything?

ha! i actually like U2 okay. surprisingly enough.

i really do think the edge is talented and unique. not that i sit around listening to them. but you hear them enough just by being alive.

Glen Matlock is the Pete Best of the Sex Pistols, and was probably kicked out for being much better looking than the other guys

tough task that

lars ulrich

michael clarke was a much better looking brian jones than brian jones was

Being better looking than the rest of the Pistols isn't saying much.

Johnny Rotten always reminds me of that kid from Gummo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvatwg47-0&feature=player_detailpage#t=43s

(43 secs in)

except for the "great band" part

whoaaa whoa whoa

Just started reading this new book about the Wrecking Crew. Never mind the bass player, on those dates nobody in the band played any instruments

also john densmore is like the MOST talented member of the doors!

Krieger was no slouch! But yeah, Densmore def not a good answer to this question.

My favorite members of The Doors are the guest stars like Larry Knechtel and especially Lonnie Mack, the same as my favorite tune in the movie The Doors is the one by The Velvet Underground

From Wikipedia (can't get quote format to work because of internal brackets):

Most of the speculation involves the tune "Roadhouse Blues". In an out-take (first released in 2006) from the first day of the recording session, the album's producer, Paul Rothchild, is heard bemoaning guitarist Robby Krieger's efforts on the tune.Mack appeared the next morning, and the recording session resumed. On the take released with the 1970 album, singer Jim Morrison is heard calling out "Do it, Lonnie, do it!" during a bluesy guitar break. Twenty years later, the band's drummer, John Densmore, wrote:

Lonnie sat down in front of the paisley baffles that soak up the sound. A hefty guy with a pencil-thin beard, he had on a wide-brimmed hat that had become his trademark. Lonnie Mack epitomized the blues---not the rural blues, but the city blues; he was bad. "I'll sing the lyrics for you", Jim offered meekly, was unusually shy. We all were, because to us, the guitar player we had asked to sit in with us was a living legend.

— John Densmore, Riders On The Storm, Dell, 1990, p. 235'

Dan Ackroyd from the super talented USA For Afrida

africa

Sen Dog.

Echo

Wanna state that Bob Weir was never an untalented guy. His rhythm playing alone in early Dead songs was pretty righteous.

Music-wise, Noel Crombie - Split Enz.
Visual artist yes. Musical contributions not so much.

Adam Clayton is obv. the first name that springs to mind but it's a bit unfair as, over the years, I've increasingly come ot the conclusion that U2 is The Edge and three other spuds

ha Lol Tolhurst was the first name I thought of, too

This dude really earned his name, huh? LOL!

Sen Dog OTM. How about other hip-hop underlings? Danny Boy from House of Pain, Vinnie from Naughty by Nature, 5' Accelerator from Black Moon, the, uh, other MC in Black Sheep...there are probably hundreds of these. Of course, House of Pain a "great band?" Eh...carry on.

Professor Griff
Jerome Benton

Flavor Flav?

Andrew Ridgeleys only contender here would be Paul Rutherford.

Or Jason Orange, maybe. OK, he had talent, but not for music.

Flavor was totally essential for PE. 'Cold Lampin'' alone.

Flavor Flav?

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post

This is way off, flav was actually a child prodigy, he plays drums and several instrument, piano, sax I think...but yeah by all accounts the most talented musician in the group, and even if he wasn't he's a genius performer and way underrated rapper

Public enemy would have been pretty much dire without flav as a personality and performer

I'm kinda mad about this right now

oh come on, Flavor Flav? Really?

lol that was slow and xposted but if anything calls for dogpiling, it's when someone calls Flavor untalented

Oh shit, I meant Manzarek, the keyboardist! Krieger's OK though.

Jerome Benton

http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/disapproving-dog-disapproves.jpg

Ray Manzarek is plenty talented

Also professor griff for fucks sake

Or like sw1 #3

Yeah the doors are all really amazing musicians whether you liked them or not

People are being very lazy on this thread. "911 Is A Joke" ain't no joke

Jerome Benton is definitely a talented comic actor, that has to count for something

lol Phil D I thought that was a picture of Sen. Dog at first

if we're going to call out a band's dancer, surely that dude from the bosstones beats jerome

anyways I feel like the whole conversation about shitty bassplayers is an indirect rebuke on my life

would you call the Bosstones a great band, though?

good point

I've never seen a stu sutcliffe painting so I dunno if he qualifies as talentless

people who are clearly talented but whose audible musical input made me like a good band a lot less: Franz Nicolay, JD Samson

http://www.stuartsutcliffeart.com/important_works.html

anyways I feel like the whole conversation about shitty bassplayers is an indirect rebuke on my life

i think it's more a rebuke on the fact that a lot of bands consider the bass an afterthought. Peter Hook and Mani from the Stone Roses are examples of how bass can really play a big bigger role, and in fact, help define the sound.

Dude whenever shitty bass player convos get started just think of Mike Watt and be like "fuck that shit, bass rules"

lol I'm just saying, some of those comments upthread strike a bit close to home lol

there are probably a lot of seriously talentless bassists out there that have gotten by just keeping their heads down and keeping it simple

^like I've def been this guy, though I wouldn't call my band 'great' by any measure

Then you're off the hook

thank goodness

Wanna state that Bob Weir was never an untalented guy. His rhythm playing alone in early Dead songs was pretty righteous.

pretty sure he came perilously close to being kicked out in the early days for sucking. also his vocals and 96% of his songs (there are 4-5 very obvious exceptions) are just utter, irredeemable shit. but hey, that's just my opinion.

I'm fairly new to the Dead, and I don't really get the Weir hate. Two of my favorite Dead songs ("Jack Straw" and "Black-Throated Wind") are Weir's -- are those generally not well-regarded, or are they two of the exceptions to his alleged suckitude?

x-post Well, he was a teenager, but whatever, lots of evidence on early recordings of his playing ruling pretty hard, though again that is just my opinion. Whether he was almost kicked out or not, his playing was cool. Agree with you about his vocals and songs though, definitely not the reason I ever listen to the Dead (which admittedly is not much these days, with the exception of the need to hear a good Jerry ballad now and again)

Tarfumes, a lot of people have no problem with Bob, and certainly some Bob songs are better than others. The less he focussed on guitar the less I liked him. "Jack Straw" and "Black-Throated Wind" are Bob moments I am cool with though.

Jack Straw is dope

What did D'Arcy do besides look cool while holding the bass?

Meth

(and lots of it)

well they all did that...

i don't want to live in a world where looking cool isn't a talent of note.

fair enough, sid vicious is officially talented

Another good thread idea: least-cool looking person in a great and otherwise cool-looking band (or something like that, I don't start these kinda things typically)

Tough one...

http://aaadfahq.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/barenaked-ladies-gordon.jpg?w=510

is that album named Gordon?

yes

omg

TS: Most Retarded-Looking Barenaked Ladies Member on This Album Cover

Another good thread idea: least-cool looking person in a great and otherwise cool-looking band (or something like that, I don't start these kinda things typically)

― grandavis, Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:03 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Bun E. Carlos in a walk.

see Bun E looks way cooler than Rick Nielson to me, at least....chain smoking substitute teacher look was $wagged out...plus neilson was explicitly dorky

obv the other 2 were fuckin dreamboats right out of a hollywood idea of a "rock band" central casting for sure

I think Bun E.'s look was intentional, no? They were called Cheap Trick. Nielsen ditto. So yeah, to me Bun E. looked really cool in the context of a band named Cheap Trick.

Similarly, the name Bun. E. Carlos is one of the all-time great rock and roll names.

everyone in cheap trick looks amazing

I wasn't being entirely serious with the Flavor Flav thing.

you're blind baby blind to the fact of who you are

i like Rick Nielsen's upturned hat and geek clothes. I feel like I could never get away with that shit

by the way, what did Prof. Griff actually do? Is "Minister of Information" an honorary title or did he actually do anything on stage?

Another good thread idea: least-cool looking person in a great and otherwise cool-looking band (or something like that, I don't start these kinda things typically)

always think about Billy Bruford here:

http://www.king-crimson.com/images/covers/redLG.jpg

they all look fine.

always felt like if the bald guy in spirit had not been bald that spirit would have been a much bigger band.

Crimson exists on its own plane here. Cool does not really apply, even Bruford's shirtless with overalls phase somehow gets a pass, just cause

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/artists/304x304/cheap-trick.jpg

Rick Nielsen looks like someone's grandmother in a bowtie in that pic

Crimson exists on its own plane here. Cool does not really apply, even Bruford's shirtless with overalls phase somehow gets a pass, just cause

well I always loved how badass and evil Wetton and Fripp look, then you got babyfaced Billy Bruford kinda lookin', y'know, like that

Wetton has kind of a goofy grin on his face in that picture, someone forgot to tell him not to smile. I get what your saying though, bruford's look did not signal what a monster of a player he was/is.

speaking of the not-cool one being not-really-secretly the cool one

http://www.richardhell.com/images/voidbesm.JPG

funny it never occurred to me that robert quine and bun e. carlos have the same look

voidoids are such a cool looking band across the board

but yeah quine is gangsta as fuck

by the way, what did Prof. Griff actually do? Is "Minister of Information" an honorary title or did he actually do anything on stage?

― Poliopolice, Thursday, April 5, 2012 2:08 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not much musically as far as i know. but the rhetoric i guess was a pretty big deal with PE so

lord zander and pederson look so cute in that cheap trick pic

xp: I never saw them but I have the impression he stood in the background and hectored audiences about Jewish people

I think for most practical purposes he was their choreographer for the S1Ws?

(In case it wasn't clear, I meant that Manzarek was v talented.)

in can't stop won't stop, jeff chang speculates that these lines from terrordome were chuck taking a shot at griff:

An reckon an intentional wreck
Played off as some intellect
Made the call, took the fall
Broke the laws
Not my fault they're fallin' off

as in: An reckon an intentional wreck
Played off as some intellect" -- griff was feeling increasingly marginalized as he realized PE wasn't actually a black panthers style revolutionary "organization" and really were just a rap group that was touring and making records and his "minister of information" gig really didn't amount to shit....therefore chuck felt behind the scenes that griff's anti-semetic outburst was A) a sort of passive aggressive way of sabotoging the band while "playing it off" as some nationalism shit and B) drawing attention away from chuck and flav and on to himself....and chuck obviously felt he "took the fall" for griff's bullshit in public

Speaking of Crimson, Peter Sinfield strikes me as deeply untalented.

he did "produce" the first Roxy album.

Griff was the tour manager too I think, judging by his complaints about Flavor Flav's timekeeping and lack of actual luggage that didn't consist of plastic bags.

Where are you all getting this info? Is it from Whiney's book? I'd love to get a tell-all, oral history style book on PE if one exists.

Also, don't sleep on "Pawns in the Game." Decent single.

Some random thoughts:

That Barenaked Ladies cover always gets me. Like, I'm not a violent person, but I literally want to throat-punch EVERY ONE OF THOSE FUCKING GUYS.

Cheap Trick are a cool looking bunch, but I really wish Nielsen could just take one friggin' photo without making some goofy face. Just one. I've never seen dude not hamming it up in some way.

I don't feel this way now, but when I was a 12 year old metalhead, I hated the fact that one of the guys in Carcass had short hair.

"Uncoolest looking member of a cool looking band" really oughta be its own thread.

I don't feel this way now, but when I was a 12 year old metalhead, I hated the fact that one of the guys in Carcass had short hair.

"random guys that were the only guy that had short hair in heavy metal bands" would be another good one

BBC had a PE documentary on a few months ago and Griff was v detailed about the ..ahem..difficulties..in getting Flavor from point A to B. Whiney was in the doc too 'tho.
xp

Whiney should have hummused Griff.

always felt like if the bald guy in spirit had not been bald that spirit would have been a much bigger band.

ha OTM, he's a scary dude due to shave, hand album covers like this don't help:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Spirit_-_Clear.jpg

TELEKINETICALLY SUMMONING REST OF SPIRIT WITH MY CREEPY BALD BRAIN POWERS

<3 Spirit tho

That Spirit cover is a worthy addition to this thread, unless it was already there and went missing: Album Covers Featuring Tiny People Living In The Artist's Or Cover Model's Hair
Thanks!

Fletch!

3/4 of the Monkees?

iirc all of the Monkees could at least sing and one of them was quite good at it

although he has writing credits on most of the earlier Cure stuff so I dunno

whoever is in the Cure at any time gets a writing credit. I think behind the scenes Smith splits it something like 40% original lyric (for those cases where eg Simon wrote a verse along with the music before Robert wrote the rest), 40% whoever brought the initial tune or finished piece to rehearsals, 20% split between everyone regardless. but everyone gets credited evenly on the sleeve

anyway Lol is better than Jason. a Linn inside a wet cardboard box would be better than Jason, don't get me wrong, but still

Music-wise, Noel Crombie - Split Enz.
Visual artist yes. Musical contributions not so much.

nah he smoked Mal Green completely on the True Colours anniv reunion tour (Crombie was playing an elaborate range of percussion throughout [plus the token spoons solo], making up for Green's mogadon thwacking, and totally lifted the whole band whenever he took over the kit for some songs. [Green was only asked back bcz Hester had died & they could do the 'one complete previous line-up' hook, and has been replaced by a new player on any subsequent shows])

I don't think White Stripes are great, but some people do, and some people would say that Meg White wins this thread.

she's a great drummer

is she? I'm actually not that familiar with the White Stripes aside from what I've heard in bars and radio, and when I listened to their breakout album back in 2001 (can't believe it's been that long!), but I've heard a lot of people complaining about how terrible she is.

Adam Clayton wins this thread. Don't listen to U2 now to know whether or not he got any better. It would be maddening to play drums with that guy as the bass foil, hats off to Larry.

as much as Pink Floyd rules, I've always felt this way about Nick Mason

I always thought Clayton had some fairly memorable sub-Wobble bass lines (and I don't even like U2 that much)
xpost to everybody

yeah the whole 8th note thing is so U2, i can't imagine them with more elaborate bass parts

it's weird how you can play bass that long and for such long stretches at a time, and still play like a first year player.

ars ulrich

― cock chirea, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:03 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

why is it suddenly so trendy to bash Lars Ulrich? I don't recall anyone commenting specifically on his drumming from 1982-1996.

it seems like one of those things that everyone suddenly has to start talking about in order to be part of the 'in' crowd, like how a couple years ago you couldn't go anywhere without someone bragging about their bacon consumption.

people have called out Lars' shitty drumming for as long as I can remember

loads of people hate Meg because a) she is a woman playing drums and b) owes more to Mo Tucker than Neal Peart. but she's heavy and she swings and plays exactly what the songs and style of music call for, which is all that really matters.

LOL BACON

shoot me

just looked at Spirit's wikipedia page after reading the Spirit discussion above, I had always thought the bald guy in spirit was the singer, but he was the drummer? (and he was born in 1923?) I can't imagine listening to Spirit without visualising that bald guy singing

He was also the guitarist's stepfather

http://www.rubbins-racin.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7530&d=1364592620&thumb=1

Also Spirit didn't have a lead singer as such (xp)... and Ed Cassidy had an awesome look anyway!

as much as Pink Floyd rules, I've always felt this way about Nick Mason

― Dokken played here for a Ribfest and people were total assholes (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:12 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbh i almost want to through nick mason into the mix on that "60s acid burnout" thread, i feel like there was a huge drop in drumming quality starting with DSOTM

you watch live at pompeii and mason rules, then you get this boring playing on dark side

Even Andrew Hickey doesn’t think Michael Clarke is that good.

Michael Clarke?

This will always be my answer whenever this thread is reborn in whatever incarnation

OK, but what Byrds recordings specifically suffered due to his lackluster drumming?

Would Al Jardine be a contender for this?

No, but David Marks maybe?

Jeffrey Hammond Hammond

He joined Jethro Tull due to being Ian Anderson's friend, but his bass playing was very inventive and he had to keep up with the complexity of the rest of the music.

i thought the answer was always bill wyman

No, he wrote and sang "In Another Land".

Speaking of Crimson, Peter Sinfield strikes me as deeply untalented.

Wait till you hear him sing! But his solo album is intriguing nonetheless.

Wyman and Al Jardine don't belong itt. Neither does Michael Clarke, who might have been a tad unpolished when he began, but ended up a perfectly decent drummer. He was in the Byrds, he didn't need to be Billy Cobham.

This thread is least talented guy it’s not “so bad that the studio magic and studio musicians still couldn’t cover for him.”

Somebody, maybe Andrew Hickey himself again, used Micky Dolenz as a comparison but Micky would in no way count because he was such a fantastic singer.

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Clarke's reputation was made worse just because of that outtake with Crosby shouting at him.

It is pretty funny when he starts playing "Dolphin's Smile" with the most cloddish beat imaginable.

still the winner and champion. dude makes bill wyman look like mstislav rostropovich.

Adam Clayton wins this thread. Don't listen to U2 now to know whether or not he got any better. It would be maddening to play drums with that guy as the bass foil, hats off to Larry.

― BlackIronPrison, Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:44 PM (nine years ago)

also if you were still on the fence about life being fair:

What is Adam Clayton's Net Worth?
Adam Clayton is an English-born Irish musician who has a net worth of $400 million.

That's $100 million per note that the Edge tells him to play in any given U2 song.

Wait till you hear him sing! But his solo album is intriguing nonetheless.

― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, January 30, 2024 9:46 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yea I kind of love it just because it's the sort of album which I don't think could exist in any other era. like imagine how big prog must've been for a lyricist with no real musical talent to get his own solo album. I always liked how Greg Lake comes in for the chorus of the title track and just blows Sinfield's own vocals away. dunno if there's ever been a greater gulf between main vocalist/backing vocalist

I called Sinfield's singing the historical bridge between Robin Gibb (who can sing) and Howard Devoto (who...well...)

imagine how big prog must've been for a lyricist with no real musical talent to get his own solo album

Hats off to Robert Hunter in that case

The Bono/Geddy/Thurston thread reminds me that John Mayhew of Genesis might apply for this thread, at least based on the recorded evidence of Trespass.

when it comes to prog I think the best answer is Lee Jackson. idk if The Nice were a great band necessarily but they were a historically important one. and the reformed version called Refugee with Pat Moraz in the Emerson role is actually quite good, albeit a year too late I think. but Jackson himself was pretty mediocre as a bass player, in fact all their exciting moments generally just have him playing the same 2 notes over and over, something I think any bass player could do. as a singer he was downright awful. and he couldn't really write songs either, in fact one of the weird things about The Nice is they just ran out of tunes at a certain point and didn't bother to write any more. the Refugee album is like...90% written by Moraz. ironically this is probably what makes it so good. if Jackson *could* sing and write songs, I think the album would be worse off.

i get that this is a thread for band members who just tag along but imo way more interesting to consider cases where the least talented member of the band is also the most ambitious- Wayne Coyne?

I LOVE Jackson Heights. Lee Jackson's band. I love them WAY more than The Nice. the only Nice songs i really like are Lee's psych numbers.

yea Jackson Heights convinced me that he was, in fact, a real musician. but he sucks in The Nice.

the least talented member of the band is also the most ambitious- Wayne Coyne?

I'm flummoxed that anyone could consider Flaming Lips a great band while dismissing him? Unless you by talent you just mean "vocal and instrumental prowess", in which case I'd mention Devoto again.

oooh I think Mike Doughty of Soul Coughing might fit there - cool voice but not a great singer, pretty limited guitar-wise, and as a songwriter he pretty famously just wrote the same few songs over and over again. meanwhile his bandmates were, in my opinion, almost like the 90s version of Can. great lyricist though and I'm pretty sure a lot of the band's actual ideas started with him

I still challenge people to listen to a song l
like "With or Without You" and tell me how a more complex bass part would make it better.

or for example Cliff Williams from AC/DC who actually had plenty of chops if you've heard his pre AC/DC proggy country rock band Home

also I'll just say that recording albums is a real stressful microscope, like you have to learn how to play correctly to sound good on record, avoiding fretting out or clanking noises, being totally in sync with the drummer, getting truly clean takes of even simple stuff can be hard

U2's storyline always begins w/how they thought Adam looked pretty cool but couldn't play bass at all, which is kinda funny because my impression is he has actually wound up being pretty good, and it may be nothing more than he's got a good ear for melodic basslines even if they're simple, and he plays really well off Larry and Edge.

dude i know in town here is doing U2's drums in vegas - he's a drum tech who worked with the stones for years r.i.p. charlie - and i made a joke that all he had to do was tighten up the snare every night. because i'm hilarious. and when i think of U2 its always 1983.

xps, oh i was thinking that he's tended to hijack some genuinely great musical ideas and performances from the others (especially Jones and Drozd) and bog them down with his awful, nonsense concepts and lyrics of "the camel is run over by the train but derailed by the gnat" style. but his mania and drive is probably what made them successful.

i think he's actually a good singer. and when i think about it, he's also done the inverse at times (taken some bland-ish music and given it more substance). and of course he's probably most celebrated as a master of ceremonies at their festival sets, i was only thinking of the records.

the other example i had in mind was Roger Waters, given his early crimes against bass playing although obviously the quality of the material he wrote later on is undeniable and he is really not a good example.

this is unavoidably going down a "what is talent and does it even exist" rabbit hole.

i don't really know Soul Coughing, i had a friend who was into them and mostly fixated on Doughty.

Well, I love early Pink Floyd but I still think it's funny that sometimes Waters plays fewer notes per song than Adam Clayton does in U2!

At least he's got David Gilmour to defend him.

This is starting to remind me of those data chart things where they show how many total unique words a rapper has used in his career to prove that Tech N9ne is better than Too Short or something

on Piper he plays the same stupid riff on every song and then when they do the long jams, he still plays that same stupid riff and throws in some clicking noises when he gets bored.

Stevie Nicks

― it's smdh time in America (will), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:55 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^horrible opinion

― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:02 PM (eleven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Seriously, it is terrible, this opinion.

This is starting to remind me of those data chart things where they show how many total unique words a rapper has used in his career to prove that Tech N9ne is better than Too Short or something

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, January 30, 2024 6:48 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sure, how would you measure a musician as "least talented"?

Surprised no one has said Linda McCartney. I suppose that's fish in a barrel.

xpost I don't really know actually seems hard

That Stevie Nicks opinion is only defensible if will had only ever been aware of Stevie Nicks by watching that one episode of SNL where Lucy Lawless impersonated her.

xpost I guess I understand Clayton is probably not as talented as the Edge (but if we're getting down to brass tacks that ol' digital delay pedal does a lot of heavy lifting in his parts), but I would just say he was the right bass player for U2, and did it well, I don't really see a scenario where a "better" bass player would be a fit in that band's music

he's fine in U2. nobody cares that he's there. he might be untalented but he's also one of the luckiest people on earth.

can you even hear the bass on 21st century U2 albums? most modern rock albums that i hear have no audible bass playing on them. unless its some retro post-punk thing.

I agree that he's fit for the purpose, it's still funny he gets 25% royalties and more doing what he does.

the other example i had in mind was Roger Waters, given his early crimes against bass playing although obviously the quality of the material he wrote later on is undeniable and he is really not a good example.

Bollocks, the only time he ever played good basslines was in the early Floyd.

wait michael anthony too. wasn't he supposed to be a bad superstar bass player? also completely nondescript like adam clayton. he was really good at drinking i think.

no, Michael Anthony is pure unadulterated JOY

xp wow you are the last person i would expect to defend Roger Waters's bass playing. Wasn't that you who said they should have replaced him with Lemmy? :)

There should be a music combine where musicians are pitted to prove their chops and then we can have a draft to assemble the greatest band ever to record the best song ever and then we can finally stop listening or making music because we would have the most factually perfect song possible and I started writing this I was being sarcastic and now I would like to pledge to my own kickstarter to fund this idea

that happened in 1972 and it produced Close to the Edge by Yes

Also every "least talented guy" rolls the most unforgivingly perfect joint you can imagine so there's that too..."intangibles"

i love Yes.

It is too early to get Yes-ed out people

Waters never played good basslines, early or late, he's a donkey

Stevie Nicks

― it's smdh time in America (will), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:55 PM (eleven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

(lol j/k everybody be cool)

― it's smdh time in America (will), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:55 PM (eleven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

He said he was joking before a minute had passed

Re: Michael Clarke, Peter Lewis of Moby Grape had this to say, and I'm pretty much in agreement:

CM : I saw (Clarke) playing not long before he died and he and the band were terrific.

PL : It was enough to break your heart. He drank himself to death—he’d been drinking since he was 16 years old—his liver, his whole body stopped working. He was in the hospital. I guess he never thought he was going to die. It’s just too bad. I didn’t really know Michael. Michael was the most friendly of the Byrds. I knew him and Crosby better than the other ones. The Byrds were the ones that changed the course of western music. They did.

CM : I always felt that. They brought in folk rock, then they practically brought in psychedelic rock, then they practically brought in country rock.

PL : McGuinn was my idol, I loved him. The way that guy plays guitar, it’s fabulous. But McGuinn is distant ; it’s hard to get to know him. Crosby’s not too distant, but he can be a total asshole. He doesn’t much care who he’s an asshole around. But Michael was always cool. There’s a guy I would have like to have known better. I know he had his problems—there were all sorts of stories—but to play with him was such a trip because he was this weird kind of drummer. He was so inventive.

CM : I remember him doing something unusual : leaving out a hit that you were expecting in his rhythm, and you’d think, how does he do it ?

PL : Yeah ! Right.

CM : But he got put down a fair bit for his drumming. People seemed to think he wasn’t good.

PL : Well, they’re fuckin’ crazy ! When you hear what he did on those songs like “She Don’t Care About Time” or “Set You Free This Time,” where the high hat would go off and it would be different every time. It was perfect. McGuinn was saying one time, “It takes that guy longer to learn a part than anybody I know but once he learns the fucking thing, it’s the perfect part.” It’s like Ringo Starr.

I like Stevenson like that too, ‘cause he was going to work on it. He had a funny little marching thing that he’d do that was unique and nobody else did. The “Hey Grandma” shuffles that Don played are cool. Drummers are all different. Playing folk rock with Michael was like—he’d go into some chord change and you could feel it four bars ahead of time. The whole thing would build, and you’d hit it and it would go swoosh, like taking off on another level. He could just do that so well, think of the song.

Link no longer works, but if you punch this into archive.org, they've archived it: https://craigmorrison.com/spip.php?article67

Waters never played good basslines, early or late, he's a donkey

― MaresNest

^^^

no way let there be more light rules! even if its simple or whatever. i love that bass sound.

xp wow you are the last person i would expect to defend Roger Waters's bass playing. Wasn't that you who said they should have replaced him with Lemmy? :)

Well, that goes without saying re: Lemmy. Waters probably didn't know what he was doing early on but, because of that, he often played interesting unusual stuff that a "proper" bass player wouldn't have thought of (rather like Holger Czukay in fact). Later on, when he became ploddingly proficient, I can't remember a note of any of his basslines - apart from "Money", which I don't really like much anyway.

(xp) Or the theme from "More", which sounds like Can.

Didn't Gilmour play bass on Money anyway?

Possibly, Waters wrote the bassline though.

Waters probably didn't know what he was doing early on but, because of that, he often played interesting unusual stuff that a "proper" bass player wouldn't have thought of

Ha, that's how i feel about Nick Mason on drums

but I tend to look at Waters in early footage of PF think the gut has stars in his eyes and sucks at playing bass.

yeah i guess there are a couple of things where his bassline is the main riff of the song

*guy

Same for Mason, yes, come the 70s it's like he got out the pipe and slippers.

OTOH, I can't listen to any Floyd tribute band because inevitably the drummer has been influenced by too many other bands and is too technical of a player.

Most drummers don't lag 0.5 of a beat behind the rhythm, true

the other example i had in mind was Roger Waters, given his early crimes against bass playing although obviously the quality of the material he wrote later on is undeniable and he is really not a good example.

― Deflatormouse

when fred frith was in naked city, roger waters' bass playing was a huge influence on how he played!

Also every "least talented guy" rolls the most unforgivingly perfect joint you can imagine so there's that too..."intangibles"

― chr1sb3singer

so yeah victor hayden (the mascara snake) probably doesn't count but he _was_ on trout mask replica (and played live with them at amougies) and _was_ completely musically untalented and was only in the band because the was their drug connection

(xp) Or the theme from "More", which sounds like Can.

― The British Boy of Film Classification (Tom D.)

i mean it's literally the bassline from "let there be more light" slowed down

wait michael anthony too. wasn't he supposed to be a bad superstar bass player? also completely nondescript like adam clayton. he was really good at drinking i think.

― scott seward, Tuesday, January 30, 2024 1:28 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mean forget the bass playing his backing/harmony vocals are crucial to the band

I'd like to know in what way Frith's playing in NC was influenced by Rog, makes me think of Flea talking about how Les Pattinson influenced him.

Most drummers don't lag 0.5 of a beat behind the rhythm, true

The slower the tune, the more time there is to play around with where you land on the beat, tempo is a pretty big part of how feel is perceived.

they should have replaced Mason with Terry Bozzio when they had the chance

I'd like to know in what way Frith's playing in NC was influenced by Rog, makes me think of Flea talking about how Les Pattinson influenced him.

― MaresNest

can't find a cite but my general feeling was that he was talking more like wanting to play very simple basslines rather than trying to be like chris squire. a lot of bass players wanna go out there and be heroes and that's not always the right approach for things. now, pink floyd's rhythm section went beyond "rudimentary" and into "bad", i'd say. god, the funniest pink floyd story i know is that waters and mason had to do the backing track for "atom heart mother" in a continuous take. nick mason's approach is at least distinctive - he does the chico hamilton rototom thing at every opportunity. for waters, i mean, he had the audacity to just go out there and play fucking octaves. i can respect that. that said, dude went out there and wrote "set the controls for the heart of the sun" in '67, which is one of their all-time jams, and provided a great opportunity for him to hit a gong and have it light on fire. he had to have had a lot to do with their stagecraft, right?

good point

nick mason's approach is at least distinctive - he does the chico hamilton rototom thing at every opportunity. for waters, i mean, he had the audacity to just go out there and play fucking octaves

this is similar or at least related to how i see it

i 100% hear a lot of Syd in Frith's guitar playing, the sing-song brittle awkwardness of it

can:t say i hear Rog in his bass playing but he was obv listening

Interesting, I don't doubt Frith's intentions but it's hard to reconcile what he said with playing very fast and busy jazz basslines read from a chart.

Also, I don't wonder if that story about Waters and Mason playing AHM all the way through is a story.

i 100% hear a lot of Syd in Frith's guitar playing, the sing-song brittle awkwardness of it

― Deflatormouse

i mean frith literally did play with syd in the last minute put-together boogie band in 1972!

Also, I don't wonder if that story about Waters and Mason playing AHM all the way through is a story.

― MaresNest

oh, probably - i mean, tape editing was a thing that existed in 1970; it's such a great story though that i don't even care if it's not true

as a limited bass player I definitely took inspiration from waters' limited bass-playing - and whenever i default to playing octaves in a JAM situation it is definitely channelling him (Eugene particularly I guess)

Also, I don't wonder if that story about Waters and Mason playing AHM all the way through is a story.

Why? It seems entirely possible to me! It also might help explain why Waters hates it so much.

Waters and Mason playing AHM all the way through

just standing staring at each other in silence for three or four minutes during the "Mind Your Throats Please" bit

Waters was probably making doi-doing noises

Waters was probably making doi-doing noises

― The British Boy of Film Classification (Tom D.)

doing his bad impression of a pict

honestly when i think of frith in naked city i just think of his bass playing on their version of "lonely woman", which is a literal meme. that album is full of musical jokes i didn't get when i first heard the album... i was listening to the beginning of their version of "a shot in the dark" and at one point they're just "fuck it, here's the 'be my baby' intro"

Waters yelling "silence in the studio" 50 times

XP to Tom - I think I read in The Flaming Cow, that when Geesin received the tapes so he could write his parts he said it was edited together in various sections.

Eno in Roxy Music

I liked that Fred Frith played both guitar and bass in Art Bears, there's a prejudice against guitarists who pick up the bass as well. Don't know how or if this worked in a live setting.

It seems entirely possible to me! It also might help explain why Waters hates it so much.

yeah

think I read in The Flaming Cow, that when Geesin received the tapes so he could write his parts he said it was edited together in various sections.

oh

i mean frith literally did play with syd in the last minute put-together boogie band in 1972!

he rehearsed with Stars (Syd, Twink and Jack Monck) but bailed after one rehearsal because, as he put it, Syd couldn't play anymore and there was no point pretending he could. probably the right call.

It doesn't make a lick of sense that the two of them would play it alone without the others, even if it was just the bass and drums that were being recorded.

Eno in Roxy Music

― bbq

idk, graham simpson wasn't that great, and davy o'list was flat out terrible... it says something that ferry moved heaven and earth to get o'list in roxy music and promptly sacked him in favor of one of their roadies. not only that, but it was a trade up, by, like, a lot. manzanera is a fantastic guitarist.

my favorite story about eno in roxy music was the story of one gig where he just sat on the floor looking fantastic and did nothing. turned out that one of the cables powering their stuff wasn't working and he was quite literally holding things together. hell, watch that old grey whistle test performance... after whispering bob harris introduces them by saying basically "here's a new band called roxy music, i think they're shit", they come on and do ladytron... they kill it despite ferry not having quite found his visual style yet. eno, though, eno very much _has_. god, eno was the fucking best femboy of all time. like, ok, you can't say anybody who could put together outfits like _those_ is _untalented_. way more talented than he is now, that's for sure. my favorite eno meme is "present-day brian eno looks like the ceo of an austrian startup that manufactures high-precision nozzles for 3d printers and early '70s brian eno looks like his wife who breeds award-winning british shorthairs and plans to poison him someday and live on his fortune in majorca for the rest of her life".

he rehearsed with Stars (Syd, Twink and Jack Monck) but bailed after one rehearsal because, as he put it, Syd couldn't play anymore and there was no point pretending he could. probably the right call.

― Deflatormouse

it's actually really interesting to listen to "number nine" by the last minute put together boogie band... syd's playing is absolutely bad out of tune blues. frith, though, his playing is really cool, somewhere between syd's playing in "interstellar overdrive" (no glissando tho) and frith's playing style on "guitar solos". worth listening to for frith alone.

I saw Fred Frith play at a coffee house in Boulder once, it was an experience.

He has been excellent every time i've seen him live

it's actually really interesting to listen to "number nine" by the last minute put together boogie band...

well, shit! when did that start circulating? i thought i had everything with syd on it but stopped paying attention probably 20 years ago

well, shit! when did that start circulating? i thought i had everything with syd on it but stopped paying attention probably 20 years ago

― Deflatormouse

ah jeez i'm not sure but it's been around for years and years. there's some interesting stuff out there. bob dylan blues, you know that was released? not very good. and there's this really interesting tape from the background of a film recording made in april 1967 that sure sounds like pink floyd playing in the background, maybe an improvised part of arnold layne...

thanks for that. I do have Bob Dylan Blues and everything that's officially out (including Rhamadan which was mp3 only bonus track iirc). No idea about this film background unless it is Flame Schon's movie which i've heard about but haven't uh, obtained.

Nah it's not Dope, I do have a two minute bit of that from Youtube though, it's really good. the rest of the movie sounds frankly horrifying and i don't think i'd watch it. i, uh, this is going to maybe sound stupid but i didn't know there was a film of "invasion of thunderbolt pagoda" though, i might check that one out. honestly there's a lot of underground film stuff i don't know much about.