This is the POLL We Live In: Genesis - Invisible Touch

fuck, this album is the bald Thriller

srsly

Hmmm I don't know the album tracks, but tell me that's a sidelong prog suite about tony banks getting his pubes waxed

it's a sidelong prog suite about Tony Banks getting his pubes waxed.

Invisible Touch, Land of Confusion or Throwing It All Away. Going with the latter.

tell me that's a sidelong prog suite about tony banks getting his pubes waxed

Domino is not too far off from that

Splitting "Domino" into its components is cheating!

I wish I could find DJP's great post about that song from years back. It made me buy Invisible Touch!

Which half of Domino has the line about the beautiful rivers of blood?

"The Last Domino," between which and "The Brazilian" I am wavering between voting. "The Last Domino" is the one that really modified me when I was listening to this a lot, but "The Brazilian" is the one that no one pays attention to but which is amazing. But now that I'm listening to "The Brazilian" I'm finding the drums a little bit fussy and leaning towards "The Last Domino." Will report back.

Title track is the best of the singles on this, by the way. Late-period Genesis was great at straght hits ("That's All", "Invisible Touch") and great at weirdo over-the-top prog-genre exercises ("Domino", "Silver Rainbow") but never combined the two in a satsifying way after "Abacab" (which to be fair is greater than anything of any kind they recorded after it.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t65NQg6iXDw

Title track is the best of the singles on this, by the way. Late-period Genesis was great at straght hits ("That's All", "Invisible Touch") and great at weirdo over-the-top prog-genre exercises ("Domino", "Silver Rainbow") but never combined the two in a satsifying way after "Abacab" (which to be fair is greater than anything of any kind they recorded after it.)

This is pretty OTM and explains why I Can't Dance doesn't work

Confession: the only single I don't like is "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight."

^ That's the only one of these songs I DO like.

"Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" is massive imo, definitely considering voting for it

my dad musta played this tape in the car every day for a year and i still can't remember anything but the hits

Still protesting splitting "Domino" in half, going with "In the Glow of the Night" because of the chorus

i have a feeling it was my dad's attempt to introduce me to his beloved prog at any early age, but i guess it kinda backfired because it only left me with a lingering obsession with mid 80s pop schlock.

thanks to Collins' pop instincts, "Domino" IS mid 80's pop schlock.

it's kind of crazy to me that "In Too Deep" is one of the weaker songs on this album

NOW SEE WHAT YOU'VE GONE 'N' DONE

You've got to go Domino.

btw Abbs, here's that post you referenced: So what about that New Toyota Ad with Phil Collins?

Collins at his most punchable?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW68T84RLHw

haha somehow I knew that was going to be the "Invisible Touch" video

although have you seen the "Anything She Does" video? it may be the most punchable thing ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxiQFNWGeq4

Immense poll. Side one is unfuckwithable, side two isn't sticking except The Brazilian, which is nice. Love Phil's vocals, they're so *urgent*. Has this been hugely compressed, actually? It's far more punchy than these headphones normally allow.

Anyway, I'm going with Tonight, Tonight, Tonight. This album is the most forbidden of fruit for me btw - has never been remotely fashionable, looks horrible, probably politically vile AND was one of the handful of contemporary records my parents owned.

The bridge on Tonight, Tonight, Tonight is epic.

I remember liking the bridge. Maybe I should listen to the album version before dismissing it (it's been years).

oh you really should

my god so everything here was a single or B-side except "Domino."

according to Wikipedia, both halves of "Domino" were b-sides (to "Invisible Touch" and "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" respectively)

bald Thriller, y'all

"Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" (album version) vs. "Throwing It All Away." "Land of Confusion" is really good, too. I like the dual epics at the end, but as much as I admire Tony Banks, in the '80s much of his work sounded like a preset demo (see: solo on "Abacab," solo on "Tonightx3," much of "Domino" and "Brazilian."

I love this record. I was talking to a friend about the drums on "Throwing It All Away," just this perfect, immediately-identifiable groove, something that Phil can pull off better than most.

The ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-AHH's on "Throwing it All Away" are A+.

a wonderful keyboardist but from the looks of those videos (and the "Behind The Music" episode) there might not be a duller person in the history of the world than Tony Banks.

By the way, I find these guys so far from punchable it's silly to even suggest it. No one could say they didn't put in the time and effort and talent. I think they were as amused at their super-stardom as anyone. Just a bunch of upper class - and yes, dull - British dudes and their hammy working class buddy. Who it bears noting took a while to give in to the spotlight and get his smug on.

a while back i made a thread about artists who had a long streak of every album selling more than the last where i just marveled at the fact that these guys had a thirteen-album streak of getting bigger and bigger (6 w/ Gabriel, 7 with Collins), which is kind of unheard of.

In a Q Magazine article published around the time of Calling All Stations (lol), Mike Rutherford, asked about that very fact, goes, "Well, we're prepared to take the hit this time."

well, We Can't Dance technically broke the streak but that still sold 4 million or something

I think the record stood until CAS in England.

Ed Goodgold on dullness (from the Genesis Archive booklet):

I told them that it was my practice to hire detectives to follow all the musicians that I managed while they were on tour and that I had just received the report from the agency. I took an envelope out of my pocket and started reading the report: 'Of the five detectives originally assigned to follow the members of Genesis on their inaugural tour of the States, four have died of boredom. The fifth...the fifth is in a coma.'

I like Tony Banks. He comes across earnest, straightforward, and mostly just interested in talking about the music.

Sounds a bit like Rush. In that (great) doc, the band talks about how on their stint opening for Kiss, the Kiss guys would be going nuts, while the Rush guys would be reading. Kiss could not compute.

For those who have not seen this classic 1972 clip, it's got Tony playing guitar. And Peter playing flute.

man the 2007 remaster of this is TERRIBLE, just A/B'd it with the original and i can tell even on spotify

2007 remaster shat all over Trick of the Tail, too.

Pretty sure 2007 Genesis remasters were actually reMIXES. Big difference.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-234428.html

fuck, this album is the bald Thriller
― Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:33 AM (20 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this might be my favorite thing ever written on ILM
Serious thank yous

:)

The title track, which is the only thing I can stomach off this thing. Post-Hackett Genesis ain't really my bag.

but these are the hands we're givein

fuck, this album is the bald Thriller

― Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:33 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

As well as being an epic meditation on intangibility? Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear the nuance of every instrument.

Pretty sure 2007 Genesis remasters were actually reMIXES. Big difference.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah okay that makes sense because some stuff was way different (and way worse)

I agree that the 2007 re-releases didn't always get it right, but I thought Trick Of The Tail sounded great.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I wrote a long screed about a year or two ago about how "Tonight Tonight Tonight" (and to a lesser extent the album generally) had a massive emotional impact on c. 5 year old me. I can't really be objective in this poll.

can you link to the screed?

Defend the Indefensible: Genesis' "Invisible Touch"

The album cover completely mystified me until recently, but one of my possible interpretations of the image within the square was a penis head with cartoon eyes drawn on it with the shadow of a broken gun.

Fantastic post, Tim.

Wow. That's the best and most otm post on all ilx.

I read that before because it sent me on a Spotify question for this:

the gentle but widescreen mysticism of the extended mix of the Commodores' "Night Shift".

And agree, great post.

er, quest, not question

re: Tim's post and "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight", isn't that song specifically about an addict? Which makes its use in this Michelob commercial even more twisted/wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9u0zv3g9k

also I should not have started playing this album because I now am second-guessing my vote

both TTT and LoC are fucking monstrous

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Whoah, shocker.

yeah didn't really see that coming

It has a built-in ability!

The Brazilian over In Too Deep! Wow.

As it should be!

"Domino" driving down a deserted Turnpike on an early Sunday afternoon.

If I'd been around for this poll, I'd have voted for "The Brazilian", but it really is a fantastic, underrated album as a whole.

bald Thriller, y'all

― Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:21 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

used to love The Brazilian. am i mis-remembering or was it used in When The Wind Blows?

Yeah, that's right; think it was playing on their radio or something.

Looked at results, said to myself, "I hope I was the one person who voted for The Brazilian," don't think I was, though

"fuck, this album is the bald thriller" never fails

My guitar teacher and I were going through the solo for "Everybody Wants to Rule the World," and we came to conclusion that not only is Tears For Fears one of the few acts clearly influenced by '80s Genesis, but the guitar solo may be the only influence of something non-Genesis played in a "Mike Rutherford style."

Mike Rutherford: another candidate for least hard working man in in rock. Phil and Tony doin' the heavy lifting here.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World always sounded like an upbeat version of Albatross to me.

Albatross a la '80s Genesis.

well, there's two solos in EWTRTW, one of which is played by Orzabal.

What degree of overlap was there between fans of Genesis and fans of Phil's solo work? Did the latter buy Invisible Touch or were they generally two separate camps? What I'm trying to ask is, did Collins' solo popularity boost Genesis' sales or was it "hey, this song by this Genesis group on the radio is pretty good!"

each Genesis album going back to Gabriel's tenure outsold its predecessor, but, yeah, I don't doubt Invisible Touch sold a few million coming a year after No Jacket Required.

Worth remembering that Collins in various contexts was pretty ubiquitous from 1980 to 1987 or so. It was a constant momentum, because he was never gone. Genesis was already playing arenas in the late '70s, I think, and that's before they had any real hits. And then came the vari-lites.

being a former prog-Genesis fan when this came out were some hard shoes to walk in, I know y'all on this thread are fans of the record and that's cool but on the reactionary prog side it was like "fuck...was the suck always there or did they just start sucking any follow the suck train to moneyland?" I was already off prog by then so it was at some degree of remove but it was still "wow that band I used to love is terrible now"

I seem to recall the Xgau review noting how it best makes use of Banks' synths, more so than the self-titled, which is a much weaker record than this one. This is the album where they go pop, but confidently so, and as I'm wont to invoke when defending '80s Genesis, the group had without question paid its dues and was already massively successful, so it's hard to come down on this album as a shameless sell-out move. They'd been moving in this direction for years, and it should have surprised no one.

I'd like to recount my funny observation of seeing the group's 2007 reunion tour, that all the women seemed to leave for the beer line when the set turned prog, and all the guys seemed to leave when it went pop. But by and large, most people stayed. I've always been impressed, from live records and seeing the group live, how well the band balanced its epics with its pop stuff, sometimes breaking the epics down to their poppiest bits and then playing them as medleys. In 2007 they played proto ballads like "Ripples" and "Afterglow," which had no problem fitting in with "Hold On My Heart."

What degree of overlap was there between fans of Genesis and fans of Phil's solo work? Did the latter buy Invisible Touch or were they generally two separate camps?

In 1983 I was a big fan of Collins-era Genesis (basically Duke through and including IT but especially Abacab) but did not care about a) Gabriel-led Genesis or b) Collins solo. I mean, I probably liked both more than I disliked them but not enough to own any records by either.

the self-titled, which is a much weaker record than this one.

Utter wrongness, the s/t is their great pop record!

Geir, is that you?

First side has "Mama" and "Home By the Sea," which are great, but also "That's All," which is pretty crap, imo. Second side has "Taking It All Too Hard," which is an underrated ballad, but also "Illegal Alien" and "Just a Job to Do," both of which kind of suck. "Silver Rainbow" is an odd deep cut, but it's no "Brazilian."

"That's All," which is pretty crap

BRAIN ASPLODES

by and large, most people stayed.

one-line review of Genesis concert in need of no further clarification

Xpost no idea why, but at least two stations locally have put that song back in heavy circulation. I hear it on the radio several times week, and it's starting to drive me crazy.

I like "Taking It All Too Hard" too, and for years I thought it was a Collins ballad.

"just a job to do" kicks

no excuse for "illegal alien" though

when i was a kid i think i used to confuse genesis ballads for phil solo stuff all the time but now they're really distinguished for me by the playing on them

Phil always hired much better musicians for his solo albums.

My local AOR station played "Home By the Sea" all the time.

Trying to think of any other musicians who maintained a highly successful solo career while still being part of a similarly successful band, and drawing a blank. Is Phil the only one?

In miniature, Gwen Stefani had a pretty successful solo outing at the time. Not sure this is a great or relevant example, though. There are other, better ones I'm not thinking of.

Stevie Nicks, too.

fuck, this album is the bald Thriller
― Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:33 AM (20 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this might be my favorite thing ever written on ILM
Serious thank yous

― Walter Galt, Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:52 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

never read this thread before, and yes this is so otm

and re: arctic mindbath's question, my dad loved phil's solo stuff, suckered in there by the supremes cover and sticking around for face value thru but seriously. invisible touch was the only genesis album he bought, and when i started to explore the genesis back catalogue as a pre-teen he was very much "woah! there be prog monsters! you won't like it!" which turned out to not be true, but there you go.

xxpost Bryan Ferry

Only foreign city sirens can cut through,
Nylon sheets and blankets help to minimize the cold.
But they can't keep out the chilling sounds.
Will the nightmare soon give way to dreaming
That she is here with me?

"in too deep" was robbed

is this the most recently revived genesis thread? can't be. I'm either wrong or time flies much too fast.

anyway, is there any other instance of a rock n roll band losing the lead singer, and the drummer steps up to the plate? in such spectacular fashion?

can we all just have a moment to think about phil collins?

i feel like dave grohl fulfills the spirit of this, if not the letter.

hm, good call, I guess if krist had been a foo (which I believe was considered?) and the foo's had ever played a nirvana song, that would be pretty dang close.

Distrust anyone who doesn't think "Invisible Touch" is a flat-out brilliant pop song.

It's pretty good, but most of this album is pretty good.

BRAZILIAN4LYFE

It blew my mind when I found out that, even though it was released while Phil Collins was having mega solo success, and the album went to #1 in the UK album chart... it did not yield any UK Top 10 hits.

Invisible Touch - #15
In Too Deep - #19
Land of Confusion - #14
Tonight Tonight Tonight - #18
Throwing It All Away - #22

just looked and their two highest ever charting UK singles were "No Son of Mine" (#6) and "Mama" (#4), which I would not have guessed

yet every single went top five or better in the United States.

hahahaha "No Son of Mine"???? Really??????

I don't remember ever hearing either of those on the radio or anything. They had a bunch of singles get to #7, including the ones that they are probably best know for over here (Follow You Follow Me, I Can't Dance, also a live version Invisible Touch that came out in 1992)

I remember hearing 'No Son of Mine' on the radio, but I heard 'I Can't Dance' so much more that you'd be forgiven for thinking it was the bigger hit.

I remember hearing "I Can't Dance" and actually bursting into laughter as I leaned over to turn off the radio

I heard every WCD single on the radio through "Hold On My Heart" -- especially "Hold On My Heart."

x-post:

Your reaction to the video must have been priceless, then!

I couldn't actually get to the television to turn it off, I was laughing so hard

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-20-2015/cXm2Jy.gif

me and this thread

Irony is there is some great stuff on that last Genesis album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHGqGmzzQaY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBz6nXgef9Q

That album came out as this fifteen year old Genesis obsessive was discovering Nirvana and grunge and everything that came with it and also hip hop. I still have some affection for the chorus to No Son Of Mine, but I remember little else and what I do remember I hatehatehate

Collins/Genesis holds a lot of nostalgic cache that stops me being objective about them and their place in the world. 'Land of Confusion' has a more memorable and satisfying hook than Invisible Touch, which simply doesn't do it for me. My partner and I have been jamming 'Jesus He Knows Me' a fair bit lately.

Not enough early epics, I know.

Not enough Paperlate.

fuck, this album is the bald Thriller

― Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:33 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

shitty poll results; somehow, expected.

"Land of Confusion" will always be the best Genesis single.

This album is fucking perfection.

There's a lot on this album that I love. Domino is awesome (part 1 would probably have gotten my vote, but I'd have felt bad about not voting for part 2 as well). Title track, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Land of Confusion and Throwing It All Away - all excellent singles. Brazilian is cool.

The remaining two songs (both of which got zero votes) bring it all down a little for me. In Too Deep borders the slimy sappy ballads I'd expect from an outfit like 3T (you know, Michael Jackson's nephews). Anything She Does has good parts, but I can't stand the horns and bass instrumental bits.

Still, I find the album's mostly pretty great.

The correct two songs got shut out.

Pretty sure I told this story before, but I was in some NYC shop one day and "Throwing It All Away" came on, and I saw not one, not two, but three people independently humming or singing along with it.

That song is great, the midlife boomer ballad in excess

I don't care what people say about late Phil Collins-era Genesis, a lot of bands would kill to write a song as good as 'Throwing It All Away' - also 'Invisible Touch' is as perfect a slice of '80s pop as you can get.

"Throwing It All Away" is also one of his most unlikely awesome Bonham grooves. When the drums come in, it's just this really swinging kind of stomp.

Collins sounds nothing like Bonham.

Even at his most aggressive on the kit, and even with the high reverb/noise gate processing, Collins had a far lighter, even jazzier touch on the kit than Bonham.

No one sounds more like Bonham than Bonham, and obviously Phil is fancier. But dude, "Squonk" (for example) is as Bonham-y as it gets. It's not a coincidence that Plant went for Collins.

I don't hear Bonham much on Squonk, but mores in Dodo

Yeah, maybe "Dodo," too. I'm thinking specifically of certain Bonham grooves, songs like "The Ocean" and "Kashmir" (and to a similar extent "When the Levee Breaks") where he's able to convey this heaviness without deviating much from pretty simple, straightforward beats. It's surprising how few drummers can pull this off. Or I should say, it's impressive how well a drummer as typically busy as Collins can pull it off.

I don't think Collins sounds like Bonham on 'Squonk' either... again, much lighter.

I don't think it comes across that way either, but a Bonham style is what he was going for. They've said that Squonk was their attempt to sound like Kashmir and When the Levee Breaks.

Had no idea. It's not just me, it's the band!

Phil says so here:

https://youtu.be/8zee0uGa_sE?t=8m35s

Ha, and of course followed immediately by Banks saying, yeah, Squonk is good, but I really like Mad Mad Moon, which of course I wrote all by myself.

I've always thought a key to Collins, especially in the late '70s, was Weather Report's "Black Market," which of course features Chester Thompson on drums. Though it's Narada Michael Walden on the loosely "Trick of the Tail"-y (and definitely precursor to Brand X) title track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7_vNpVXubA

Collins may well have been striving to sound like Bonham, like many drummers - but he doesn't, like many drummers!

I think what undercuts the legacy of this album more than anything is the general goofiness/dorkiness of the band around this time: Phil's stage presence, his haircut, those spitting image puppets.
i loved this album as a 16-year-old (and this thread is definitely going to make me revisit it), but I had always assumed that the only reason I loved it was that I hadn't developed any critical facilities yet. Compared to the gravitas of the Gabriel era, and even the prog-collins era, this stuff just scans as more throwaway.

xpost:

The whole world of music is full of examples of musicians striving to write or play like someone else and either getting it wrong and coming up with something different or being unable to replicate what they were going for and ending up with something else.

striving to sound like Bonham, like many drummers - but he doesn't, like many drummers

We drummers refer to it as "Bonhommage."

had always assumed that the only reason I loved it was that I hadn't developed any critical facilities yet. Compared to the gravitas of the Gabriel era, and even the prog-collins era, this stuff just scans as more throwaway.

fun >>> gravitas

Lord Alfred OTM

I think what undercuts the legacy of this album more than anything is the general goofiness/dorkiness of the band around this time: Phil's stage presence, his haircut, those spitting image puppets.

I definitely agree with this - particularly the haircut!

i loved this album as a 16-year-old (and this thread is definitely going to make me revisit it), but I had always assumed that the only reason I loved it was that I hadn't developed any critical facilities yet. Compared to the gravitas of the Gabriel era, and even the prog-collins era, this stuff just scans as more throwaway.

I disagree with this, obviously because I - first and foremost - think it's a great album, but also because while there's some stunning highlights on those Gabriel-era Genesis records, there's also plenty of it that's quite silly. People also talk about this era of Genesis thinking that it's easy to just suddenly start writing pop smashes - of course it isn't, and if it was Genesis would have done it sooner.

a band whose singer wore scarlet dresses and a fox head had gravitas?

I'm not picking on you, enochroot!

Like, 'The Battle of Epping Forest' is far more complex and lengthier than 'Invisible Touch', but one is more successful at what it does than the other and it ain't the former.

Until So and particularly the Sledgehammer video, Gabriel seemed a remote, menacing figure. The dress and fox head read as disturbing (and maybe disturbed) in its day. Phil was never convincing in that mode.

I liked this record fine - had it on cassette when I was perhaps 15. I don't think I liked it as much as Abacab, Face Value, or No Jacket Required (all of which I loved then and still admire).

To be sure, we were aware that there was more pop sheen than classic-rock groinal oomph. Around that time, my friends and I were starting to get into Zeppelin and Floyd and such, so we were shying away from pop radio. But Genesis were grandfathered in, so to speak, and so it was okay to like Invisible Touch. Also So and Graceland, for similar reasons.

I think I saw Throwing it All Away as Follow You Follow Me part 2.

I think the videos to 'In The Air Tonight' and 'Mama' are quite successful in conveying the more menacing side of Phil. On the whole, though, Phil seemed more content to be himself rather than go for a stage persona.

dinnerboat, maybe - to a tweenaged FM audience, Shock the Monkey and Games Without Frontiers did seem a bit offputtingly weird amid the pop of the day. But Gabriel was known to have a cuddly side too, cf. Solsbury Hill and Biko.

Did I Have the Touch chart? I only heard it later.

As for "classic-rock groinal oomph", even in the Gabriel-era they were hardly the hardest rocking band around. Sure, they could do it, but I wish they'd done it more.

Right, Turrican, I wasn't speaking of comparing them to their prior selves, but rather to other 1970s acts still active at that time. Petty, the Who.

Ah, gotcha!

xp Gabriel toured with death's head makeup (cf the first live album cover), then with a shaved his head at a time when skinheads were a thing. I think he liked scaring his audience early on, though it seems he came to see it as an insincere pose that So was meant to correct. Also, smh if Biko is your cuddly side.

...Oh and Springsteen too (re: bringing the groinal oomph).

DC had a classic rock station around this time that captured a lot of teenaged boys' ears, even if it was actually aimed at their older brothers or cool uncles (or even, gasp, their DADS). One could groove on Bad Company or Yes or whatever, and feel superior to those lame-os who were still stuck to the pop station with its Debbie Gibson and Menudo. Anyway they made a great show of bringing out "the latest from..." to show that those hoary old classic rock doodz could still Bring It.

The youngsters will never know how dynamically different 1984 seemed from 1987, and 1986 from 1990. But these differneces smooth out in retrospect.

difference between 1984 and 1987 was absolutely massive especially in terms of the tone colors and rhythms which dominated the charts, i would think it's still pretty obvious today to a youngster with a sharp ear

OK, i just re-listened to the album for the first time in about 25 years (this was probably my favorite album in 1987, btw):
- ok, fine: it holds up surprisingly well. i'll have to go dig out my tour shirt.
- agreed on "Throwing It All Away" being their best single
- why not more love for The Brazilian? I remember that being a highlight of their live show around this time.

Re: gravitas: Gabriel was creepy even in a giant flower costume. Phil Collins defaulted to hammy, which probably helped widen their audience, but not necessarily their credibility as serious musicians.

In Too Deep is heavily featured in Neil Jordan's excellent Mona Lisa. it depicts a truly bloody vile depths-of-the-Thatcher-era London and the use of the song is pretty much the only respite from the gloom and the horror.

That's right! Wasn't the film releaesed in the UK in late spring '86? That would've made "In Too Deep" the first exposed track.

June 86 aye. i'm no Genesis expert but i thought i recalled it being written for the film then added to the album which was the style at the time (Kate Bush writing This Woman's Work for She's Having A Baby etc..)

'Invisible Touch' was the first single - May '86.

Although it's worth pointing out that while Invisible Touch was indeed the "bald Thriller" in the US, in the UK none of the singles were as successful as you'd think.

why not more love for The Brazilian? I remember that being a highlight of their live show around this time.

I love it! Particularly the percussion...

BLOOD ON THE WINDOWS!
MILLIONS OF ORDINARY PEOPLE ARE THERE!

http://i1.getsurrey.co.uk/incoming/article7098556.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/Phil-Collins.jpg

Coming out the woodwork, through the open door
Pushing from above and below
Shadows without substance, in the shape of men
Round and down and sideways they go
Adrift without direction, eyes that hold despair

http://www.paradisefoundaround.com/wp-content/uploads/disney_tarzan_jane_hands-680x383.jpg?74f3cb

Best track on this record: all of them.

What makes this record an incredible achievement is that is not just superior to everything else that Genesis put out from 1981 onwards, but in terms of quality and songwriting it knocks Phil Collins' solo work into a cocked hat, too. It's a real diamond in the rough.

IT is so blatantly commercial -- bully for them -- making a record with sales up the wazoo, videos on constant MTV rotation, entering the cultural confab; none too bad for some old white prog guys. The band changed their trajectory in a radical fashion even if this was the direction they were already heading. All these tracks sound far more dated than those from albums a decade earlier.

It took them years to write a perfect pop song. Their first attempt was 'I Know What I Like', and they got close with 'Follow You Follow Me', 'Turn It On Again' and 'That's All' ... but this album is where they finally nailed it, particularly on the title track, and they did it while keeping their inherent progginess intact. It was still prog in places, just a different kind of prog.

I agree that the album sounds like it was released in 1986, but that's to be expected given that it was. Dated is not a pejorative.

Duke does not sound like it was made in 1980, nor does Trespass sound like 1970 -- IT was of it's time; fine hits, but in the end, derivative. Take your classic rock-whatever, Moving Pictures, Women and Children First, Tres Hombres... as fresh today as ever. IT is in a box, and, a small one; especially when compared to the rest of their catalog. Why do so many equate an album's quality with the number of hits it has? ....a foolhardy pursuit.

Those albums also sound like they were released in the year in which they were released.

I disagree that Invisible Touch is derivative, particularly since the average pop artist of 1986 wasn't putting out tracks like 'Domino' or the full version of 'Tonight, Tonight, Tonight' ...

You seem to be under the impression that writing pop hits is an easy thing to do. It isn't.

pop hits are mostly either by design or by chance; in this case, having a pop-derived disposition lessened the impact of a once powerful group of uncompromising artisans -- starting to chase tails here, but Peter also went down the same rabbit-hole with Sledgehammer, et al (but could Collins have ever even conceived of anything as brilliant as the Passion OMPS? Apples and Oranges, Turd.

Dream Theatre used to say writing a good pop song was mind blowing to them because the shit they wrote was so freeform in comparison.

But they suck so...

xpost:

I'd say that as a pop song, 'Invisible Touch' has a lot of impact - as a tune, it's truly uplifting and joyous and the lyric is a theme that anyone over a certain age can relate to. The album as a whole certainly had enough "impact" to speak to a great number of people. Seems to me that you're irked that 10 minute epics about dungeons and dragons weren't speaking to a great number of people in 1986, including the band themselves. The bands melodic sense and desire to do something different remained intact, even if it didn't always work - see: the two LP's prior to Invisible Touch.

I've mentioned before that I don't reall like Phil's solo stuff, so I don't see what that has to do with anything, as well as Gabriel vs. Collins talk when Banks and Rutherford were the ones running the show.

I think we've established at this stage that bodacious ignoramus is a rockist prone to throwing juvenile hissy fits when his belief system is called into question, though.

troll-bait

Well I've been waiting, waiting here so long
But thinking nothing, nothing could go wrong, but now I know
She has a built in ability
To take everything she sees
And now it seems I'm falling, falling for her.

I don't really know her, I only know her name
But she crawls under your skin, you're never quite the same, and now I know
She's got something you just can't trust
It's something mysterious
And now it seems I'm falling, falling for her.

She don't like losing, to her it's still a game
Though she'll mess up your life, you'll want her just the same, now I know
She has a built in ability
To take everything she sees
And now it seems I've fallen, fallen for her.

She seems to have an invisible touch yeah
She reaches in, grabs right hold of your heart
She seems to have an invisible touch yeah
It takes control and slowly tears you apart.

Rinse and repeat.

...i'm beside myself with the lyrical depth --- the two albums previous to IT have tracks are that are far more inventive than anything on IT... dungeons and dragons notwithstanding.

xpost:

Well, at least you're admitting it.

As I've said, 'Invisible Touch' has a lyrical theme that pretty much anyone over a certain age can relate to. If you can't, then fair enough, but I guess that says a lot. If you're relying on wacky stories about hypersexual Victorian ghosts, the human race being turned into a bunch of short-arses, or a bird stealing some guys dick to make you feel like the deep intellectual you think you are, but aren't, then also fair enough.

exhausted and bored -- meld to your flaccid 2112-version of the future; wait for me there.

...and you can buy the beers!

*cranks up Invisible Touch*

off topic, but cranks......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_duQibI3Nvo

I can't keep up with all these threads tbh

This is the one where people are arguing about Genesis. HTH

In the beginning ...

As I've said, 'Invisible Touch' has a lyrical theme that pretty much anyone over a certain age can relate to.

tf is this self parody

Nope, just the truth.

Trollo, Lurker.

sadness, and i'm 49 - turd must be 109

I rest my case.

you won't; guaranteed.

As I've said, 'Invisible Touch' has a lyrical theme that pretty much anyone over a certain age can relate to.

tf is this self parody

I was thinking more Patrick Bateman parody

*QI klaxon*

Well, I don't think Invisible Touch is their undisputed masterpiece (and I hate 'Sussudio' with a passion, for that matter) ... but it's without doubt their second best album of the '80s.

'Throwing It All Away' just came up on shuffle and I was just struck once more by how much of a beautifully sung and beautifully written song it is. I had to listen to the rest of Invisible Touch immediately.

It is like the perfect midlife boomer ballad. That gently billowing guitar line is lovely.

compare "Follow You Follow Me."

I am willing to come out and say that "Throwing" is probably a better song. More nuanced in both lyric and in delivery.

"Throwing It All Away" is such a lovely song. I particularly love the drums. This is mostly a Mike song, right?

Think it's Mike all the way

In Too Deep badly stiffed here

In Too Deep is the ballad I always forget about, like Taking It All Too Hard. Unlike most IT songs (save maybe Anything She Does?) In Too Deep wouldn't be out of place on No Jacket.

'In Too Deep' is another sublime track - if it had been on No Jacket Required, it'd have been the best thing on there.

compare "Follow You Follow Me."

I am willing to come out and say that "Throwing" is probably a better song. More nuanced in both lyric and in delivery.

― you had better come correct (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, November 26, 2017 3:07 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh absolutely! They'd truly mastered the art of the concise ballad by the time of Invisible Touch.

YOU KEEP TELLING ME I'VE GOT EVERYTHING!
YOU-SAY-I'VE-GOT EEEEEEVERYYYYTHIIIIING IIIII WAAAANT!

https://nnimgt-a.akamaihd.net/transform/v1/crop/frm/6Gg6GtPg7U4UELscme8yjY/33cc5a70-c559-4785-8069-cd939c0abd85.jpg/r0_52_2528_1458_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg

“ it's without doubt their second best album of the '80s.”

Whatttt? It’s maybe the fourth, after Abacab, Duke, and S/T....and I’m not sure it edges out We Can’t Dance either...

I remember a school summer holiday when I played this album to death in rotation with Selling England By The Pound and IQ's Nomzamo (and I was still the coolest kid in my street!). I would've voted for Tonight Tonight Tonight. The ferocious release of the "You keep tellin' me I got everything" vocal after the super-tensile instrumental passage still resonates with me and is as raging as any Black Flag.

Absolutely! I've read some folks say "oh, the instrumental section on 'Tonight, Tonight, Tonight' is so dull" because they're not going full-on like they did in the '70s, but it's meant to be this long, slow build that climaxes in that part. As you say, a ferocious release.

I'd rank the '80s albums Duke > Invisible Touch > Genesis > Abacab at this point. While the latter two have their high points ('Home by the Sea'/'Second Home by the Sea', 'Dodo/Lurker', 'Mama'), they've also got tracks like 'Illegal Alien', 'Another Record', 'Who Dunnit?' etc. which aren't really all that great. Invisible Touch has absolutely no filler on it.

Aw, I love Another Record...

^ yeah, you can't mention "Another Record" in the same list with those other two.

round and round and round and a-round it go, uhhhh, see me smile

some talk on another thread reminded me that I actually used to love the song Illegal Alien as a kid, not only because it was super catchy but because I had assumed the lyrics were about space aliens that crashed to Earth and that for some reason they had been outlawed. I dunno, like half the video games I played on my PC had a plot like that. anyway, I'll still defend the music at least.