Taylor Swift - RED - October 22

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486611_10151041696915369_1483767798_n.jpg

oh ffs

lol

I can't find the single they're talking about though.

guess you saw the facebook post too huh

I checked iTunes just now to no avail.

http://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=Bowsty44nqzwqrg4i6l5zi7mqne

if you go to her itunes splash page and sort by release date, it's the top one. I can't listen to it right now though.

I found it via another method.

I <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 this!

So the new single... its awfully 4 on the floor. The most pop thing she's done. I like the chorus. I don't like the little talky asides, or the whole weird recorded casual conversation in the middle (comes across kind of.. mean). I dunno... we'll see how it grows on me. We (Whee!)!

cant wait til octobert

back to decembert

chorus is pretty awkward, song seems to be lacking the spontaneity of her earlier stuff

Have fun, children.

i'm not a fan but that's a shitty and played out kind of thing to come into the thread and say imo

Yeah, true. But something about Taylor Swift worship makes me want to incinerate the entire country.

me too, no doubt. just don't like the "children" thing, tbh.

hmmm well it is pretty hooky with the 'oooo-oo-oo-oo-ooh's and the 'wee-eeeeee's

but i don't really feel one way or another about it

i will forever remain a "casual tswift listener"

is the "find your piece of mind / with some indie record that's cooler than mine" line playful or aggrieved? i guess in the context of the overall cheekiness of the record it's suitable?

depends on whether she's been dating one of the hansons

for as long as it lasts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um9vwJHPmzM

is the "find your piece of mind / with some indie record that's cooler than mine" line playful or aggrieved? i guess in the context of the overall cheekiness of the record it's suitable?

― saturdaynight (jk), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 12:51 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

her delivery on that line is totally jokey!

i'm not sure how i feel about this song but WELCOME BACK, BOO

Yeah, it's not aggrieved at all...jokey and ever so slightly "I get it, but c'mon!".

The song's personality is 100% Taylor Swift, but structure-wise it's like a mashup of Avril Lavigne and Carly Rae Jepsen which might seem a little like an unnecessarily panicky plea for radio appeal in 2012—not that she's ever had trouble with radio. So idgi but I <3 it all the same.

yeah it's weird to say about taylor swift... but this is really POP

yeah the first comparisons that came to mind for me were carly rae jepsen and that hot chelle rae song from last year -- but then again the first thing i thought of when i heard crj was taylor swift. not rly sure why i thought of hot chelle rae tho cuz it doesn't really seem similar at all (+ the comparison seems insulting)... maybe rhythmically similar in parts?

hot chelle rae jepsen

in any case yes this seems very pop-radio-chasing, not that that is bad

OMG

"with some indie record that's much cooler than mine" <3 <3

i'd been excited about today w/r/t taylor swift anyway

depends on whether she's been dating one of the hansons

she's dating a kennedy!

i am not sure about the talky aside.

Nashville, TN – August 13, 2012 – Taylor Swift’s highly-anticipated fourth studio album will be released worldwide on October 22nd, Taylor herself announced this evening during a live YouTube web chat with her fans.

Entitled Red, the album will be released on Big Machine Records and contains 16 tracks. After writing her last album (Speak Now) entirely by herself, for this record Taylor collaborated with several artists, producers, and songwriters she had always wanted to work with.

“For the last two years, I've been working on an album called Red,” Taylor says. “I called it Red because of the tumultuous, crazy adventures in love and loss that it chronicles. In my mind, when you experience love that's fast paced and out of control and mixes infatuation, jealousy, frustration, miscommunication, and all of those lovely emotions…in retrospect, it all looks red.”

The first single from Red, “We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together,” (written by Taylor Swift, Max Martin, Shellback) has already arrived at radio and will be available today at iTunes and Google Play, and beginning tomorrow worldwide at all digital retail outlets.

(written by Taylor Swift, Max Martin, Shellback)

oh, gaaawwwwd

max goin back to the OG teenpop days

Man, I hope she didn't completely ditch Nathan Chapman (or her particular brand of country pop) for the album. I can totally see how this could fit into one of her a;bums, but it's not really the type of thing I can listen to a whole album of.

yeah I'm surprised how pop she's gone with this, and I miss the songwriting tightness & lyrical specifities et. al. that are her trademark (though that indie record line totally compensates - just imagining her face when she's singing that is making me irl lol) when it doesn't seem like she needs to go to max martin for a hit. BUT speak now didn't really produce any massive hits in the vein of fearless and the general response to "mine" as a lead single was that it was underwhelming (even though I thought it was still a+ great) and I figure that she wants the huge commerical success on the pop format now when she's at her prime in the knowledge that she's guaranteed decades of success in country when she wants a bit later on anyway, so she might as well let her hair down a bit right now, and maybe even get some big worldwide success a la shania. also I imagine this is something of a red (yeah yeah) herring and the album will have a lot more darker mood pieces like "safe & sound" - and just a whole load of experimentation by the sound of it - and this is just a case of pulling in the listeners to go and buy the lp.

also I really like how this added to ther huge successes of "call me maybe" and "boyfriend" is i think forming a new pop consensus, which is starting to move the top 40 format away from the gross pounding guetta/calvin harris beats shit and getting back to an earlier age of teen pop. or maybe that's just my wishful thinking.

can see this probably alienating some country radio unless there's a banjo mix. but then country radio is all about the cash so i'm probably wrong. i mean they played that terrible sugarland steampunk thing to death.

anyway, don't know if i like this too much. not much of the old taylor in it :-(

I'm not enthusiastic in general about her album being filled with collabs - I trust her, but not her friends, and I don't really want a 'different sound'.

But this song is great and sounds like a huge hit immediately, unlike Mine, which was great but didn't sound like a hit at all, and so it's definitely job well done in starting off the campaign differently from Speak Now. Hopefully the album is a Taylor-ish whole and not bits and pieces of other attempts at hits, though.

i think i saw buzzings on a blog somewhere that there may be a mix for country radio

the album will have a lot more darker mood pieces like "safe & sound"

i am hopeful that this is the case - that song in particular has grown on me quite a lot since it came out

here's the country mix: http://tasteofcountry.com/taylor-swift-we-are-never-ever-getting-back-together/

the good - flawless album cover:

http://cdn.idolator.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/13/taylor-swift-red-album.jpg

the bad/really ugly - ed sheeran will be on the album :////////////

Hope he's as audible as Colbie Caillat on 'Breathe'.

i really like this and also the red lipstick shots have me swooning like crazy <3 <3 <3

but ew i refuse to get anything with ed sheeran on it

i always though breathe could have used a little more Caillat, tbh. i've never heard Ed Sheeran. He looks like a smarmy douche.

I remember when Speak Now came out, there was a little processed drum loop on one of the songs and I was like "god, don't do this Taylor" and now this song basically sounds like P¡nk or something. But it`s not a particularly novel take on the P¡nk thing.

Like, and it's not to say that Taylor couldn't do that sort of pop well, as a departure from the country/pop/rock thing that's worked really well for her, but god those drums stomp all over everything in the song.

i think something like Sparks Fly is as far down the pop taylor rabbithole i was prepared to go. if the new LP is all shit like Avril's 'Girlfriend' i may have to take my leave.

I think pseudo-Avril is a pretty good sound for Taylor! This is much better than I was expecting from reading the above.

Except for the talky aside, Lex is right about that

Taylor's better than this and Avril's better than this.

yeah but I can't get past the fact that Avril is releasing that sort of thing when she's 28. If Taylor is still doing non stop indecisive boyfriend focused stuff in three-five years it would be a big disappointment. she's a good enough writer to be able to go somewhere else with it.

I'd rather Taylor did pseudo-Ashlee rather than pseudo-Avril.

yeah also hate the talky asides. the ones on Better Than Revenge were cringe enough.

I'd rather Taylor did pseudo-Ashlee rather than pseudo-Avril.

― prolego, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:14 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

From a distance this post makes perfect sense but on reflection I think it totally depends which Ashlee album you're referring to here.

At any rate I think this could easily seem as much like an Ashlee song as an Avril song, it's just that Taylor's voice ends up sounding more like Avril b/c she's girly rather than throaty.

yeah also hate the talky asides. the ones on Better Than Revenge were cringe enough.

― Jamie_ATP, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:14 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The ones on Better Than Revenge were completely cringe-inducing, but less-so for this song. The cut-up snippets of conversation reminds me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk7MTuovhhE

like she's trying to do something experimental with found sound and it could probably be awesome in some other producer's hands.

This song is okay on second listen but then I had a similar reaction to "Mine."

I finally listened to the country mix linked upthread. Still mediocre, but I would have preferred it to the mix I actually bought from itunes.

I don't understand this expiry date for pop starlets thingum, like what? What is supposed to happen when pop star turns 28? Jazz albums? Lyrics about Plenty Of Fish?

I can't believe Avril's almost 28 though. Poor thing. She's all like "I'm a goddamn grownup. Get all this crap off of me!"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Avril_Lavigne_%28crop%29.jpg

So what? I didn't get it with the "CR Jepsen is 26, too old for this shii" argument and I don't get it with Avril either. Most women I know are chin-stroking think pieces in their early 20s, and raving horn-dogs in their 30s. I mean, this whole "she's too old for this" is male gaze talking, if I may say so in the gentlest of terms

Please accept "raving horn-dogs" with a grain of salt.

xpost ^^^^

Although really any age is too old for that hair IMO.

owen otm

it's nagl on avril for different reasons, one of which is that it wasn't a gl in the first place

erm :/

i don't hate it but i probably will after like ten listens

i dunno... i miss the narratives and lyrical specifities and stuff... not really what i wanted but i mean this is off like 2 listens thus far. i guess she really wants to expand her fanbase beyond north america. defo sounds like it could be ubiquitous or whatever but i mean... erm ok... :/

maybe i'll end up loving it? lol this post is a mess but i've been waiting for this for 2 years and now all this info coming out at once aaaaaaa

http://i.imgur.com/KCJO0.jpg

i guess she really wants to expand her fanbase beyond north america.

this is pretty much The Plan, yes

i'm not allowed to post any more ://////////// i need to be kept away from this thread

along with avril, i immediately flashed on JoJo hearing this.

I don't think it's horrible Taylor Swift's doing this type of thing per se, just ironic cuz she always seemed like someone who couldn't wait to grow up.

@ dayo I don't get it oh wait LOL

anyway the thing that this song reminds me of is "my life would suck without you", i think you all remember how i felt about that, it's not quite that mediocre and i enjoy it BUT.

it's that clumsy lyrical phrasing in the chorus. basic.

He said the way my blue eyes shined
Put those Georgia stars to shame that night
I said: "That's a lie."
Just a boy in a Chevy truck
That had a tendency of gettin' stuck
On backroads at night
And I was right there beside him all summer long
And then the time we woke up to find that summer gone

But when you think Tim McGraw
I hope you think my favorite song
The one we danced to all night long
The moon like a spotlight on the lake
When you think happiness
I hope you think that little black dress
Think of my head on your chest
And my old faded blue jeans
When you think Tim McGraw
I hope you think of me

September saw a month of tears
And thankin' God that you weren't here
To see me like that
But in a box beneath my bed
Is a letter that you never read
From three summers back
It's hard not to find it all a little bitter sweet
And lookin' back on all of that, it's nice to believe

When you think Tim McGraw
I hope you think my favorite song
The one we danced to all night long
The moon like a spotlight on the lake
When you think happiness
I hope you think that little black dress
Think of my head on your chest
And my old faded blue jeans
When you think Tim McGraw
I hope you think of me

And I'm back for the first time since then
I'm standin' on your street
And there's a letter left on your doorstep
And the first thing that you'll read is:

When you think Tim McGraw
I hope you think my favorite song
Someday you'll turn your radio on
I hope it takes you back to that place
When you think happiness
I hope you think that little black dress
Think of my head on your chest
And my old faded blue jeans
When you think Tim McGraw
I hope you think of me

Oh, think of me
Mmmm

He said the way my blue eyes shine
Put those Georgia stars to shame that night
I said: "That's a lie"

nevr 4get

i was just thinking how every first single she's had is worse than the last. and like yeah her debut song is still her very best but it's such an all-time pinnacle of music that I guess it's not too depressing that nothing else can really compare (the vast majority of all her other stuff is still a++ good).

everytime I listen to "tim mcgraw" and realise it was written by a 14 y/o makes me go o.O - like how the fuck?!

could shakespeare have written that well at 14? idts.

anyway the thing that this song reminds me of is "my life would suck without you"

OTM

So what? I didn't get it with the "CR Jepsen is 26, too old for this shii" argument and I don't get it with Avril either. Most women I know are chin-stroking think pieces in their early 20s, and raving horn-dogs in their 30s. I mean, this whole "she's too old for this" is male gaze talking, if I may say so in the gentlest of terms

― Ówen P., Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:54 AM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I was sorta joking in re avril and her music and pop music in general. As long as you're striving for excellence, ya know. But it would be sorta cool if she got rid of raccoon eyes for 2013.

(best TS song is still "Our Song" fuiud)

best TS song is Forever & Always, fuiUd.

if i had to put t-swift's singles in order of preference...

tim mcgraw
our song
fearless
back to december
mine
you belong with me
fifteen
sparks fly
white horse
safe & sound
love song
picture to burn
teardrops on my guitar
should've said no
mean
we are never ever getting back together
ours
the story of us
eyes open

everything down to "love song" is 10/10 though

oh i forgot about the fairytale one but i can't even remember it tbh

I'd like to meet Joe Jonas and shake his hand for that one. "Hey thanks for being an asshole. Wait! No, really!"

no i'm pretty sure her best single is "fearless"

oh god just thinking of that song...

THIS WE ARE NEVER EVER GETTING BACK TOGETHER THING DOESN'T CUT IT SORRY TAYLOR NEXT

fearless
tim mcgraw
fifteen
our song
mine
back to december
love story
you belong with me
sparks fly
safe & sound
mean
white horse
picture to burn
should've said no
teardrops on my guitar
we are never ever getting back together
ours
eyes open
the story of us

tim mcgraw
fearless
our song
fifteen
you belong with me
love story
safe & sound
back to december
mean
mine
sparks fly
picture to burn
should've said no
white horse
ours
we are never ever getting back together
eyes open
the story of us
teardrops on my guitar

oh shit, we need a swifty poll

never knew story of us was that disfavored

the story of us is very loud and blustering and almost completely unmemorable

Hm. "The Story of Us" would make my top ten while "White Horse" and "Back to December" the bottom.

If only Enchanted had been released in a single (in a way that didn't have to truncate it too much) and became the "My Heart Will Go On" of our time.

I don't like "White Horse" much but "Back To Decemeber" is great.

love the bridge & the chorus, haven't hated anything like I hate these verses in a long time

Owen otm btw

It's a shame that one of the most popular singers of the day decided her strategy would be to become even more popular. LOL, Max Martin, sigh... was Mutt too busy with Nickelback? Dr. Luke luking it up somewhere else?

Nathan Chapman is so good too. I hope he gets most of the album.

yeah his backing vocals are a great part of her sound

Most women I know are chin-stroking think pieces

this objectifying usage never occurred to me before, i love it

Most women I know are chin-stroking think pieces

was this a line left out of "Your Body is a Wonderland"?

If only Enchanted had been released in a single (in a way that didn't have to truncate it too much) and became the "My Heart Will Go On" of our time.

oh my god i wanted this to happen so bad

anyway i feel all of u on the "loss of specificity" thing

but

this song makes me so happy

also i am pro spoken aside b/c that shit is hilarious

I'm in the minority, I guess: I dislike not so much the indie line as the bad acting she puts into saying the line. It's like a kid wearing a big black mustache.

It's like that moment in Talking Heads' "Wild Wild Life" video when the camera zooms into David Byrne's face for the only time so that no one can doubt it's ol' David mugging in a mustache.

it's this generation's "I certainly do" from "You Learn"

and the rest of the spoken asides from "You Learn" that inspired a generation to pray for death

man i have never thought of "i certainly do" as spoken, just some rarely-tapped purgatorial aspect of alanis' horrible drifting whine

finally won over by the "next chapter" and "the end" asides in "the story of us" by singing it at karaoke because it is SUPER dramatic but also the drama is totally undone by how awkward it is

Too bad TS is going to jail now RIP

51-year-old George Boedecker, one of the three men who founded the controversial footwear company Crocs, was arrested by Boulder Police officers yesterday and charged with driving under the influence after he was found passed out in his Porsche.

Boedecker initially tried to pin the blame on singer-songwriter Taylor Swift, whom he claimed was his girlfriend.

Per the incident report, Boedecker said Swift was in the driver's seat, but had run off during an altercation. Asked by the cops where Swift was now, Boedecker pointed towards a nearby yard and responded, "Nashville."

Swift — "a really fucking famous singer" according to Boedecker — was "batshit crazy," the foam clog tycoon said.

Boedecker continued to be extremely inimical toward the officers, telling them to "go fuck yourselves in the ass" and "fucking die." In a last-ditch effort to wiggle his way out of the collar, Boedecker, a deep-pocketed benefactor and philanthropist, attempted to throw some weight around, telling the officers he "couldn't believe we were doing this after all he had done for this city."

The braggadocio proved pointless, as Boedecker was ultimately booked into Boulder County jail. The Smoking Gun notes that he was wearing flip flops at the time.

pictures of the red flip fops or it didn't happen.

too bad she didn't stick around to turn this into songwriting fodder

One of the comments on the country video page: Reminds me of "Call Me Maybe," and not in a good way. I agree. Cute, kind of slight.

"red flip fops!"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KFAy_8RAnKU/TQ0GKlgJsbI/AAAAAAAAGgc/fIufs1xQ6p0/s1600/fop.jpg

That is a pretty great gawker piece.

Asked by the cops where Swift was now, Boedecker pointed towards a nearby yard and responded, "Nashville."

This thread or the song?

After sleeping on it, I think Miley Cyrus's new haircut is a more exciting development than this new Taylor Swift single.

the song, then the thread.

i really like the country version of this

the talky bit is awesome btw -- it has a punchline!

sounds very kk slider to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8FV6nZHv_4
which of course means i kinda like it

xps: the last miley song I heard was party in the u.s.a. God, was that really two years ago?

Long enough ago for Jessie J to get famous from it and have her own career rise and flatline.

"we are never getting back together.... like ever"

u missed the climb?

I think Miley Cyrus's new haircut is a more exciting development than this new Taylor Swift single.

I just now saw Miley's haircut (I've been busy). It and this song are an even match.

if you didn't hear miley's occupy song you missed out

"Batshit crazy, the foam clog tycoon said" sounds like a Beck lyric.

thank you lex. I nearly spit mtn dew, etc.

xps: the last miley song I heard was party in the u.s.a. God, was that really two years ago?

― spanky hotel frogstrot (how's life), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:03 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

no, 3 years ago!

I think the talky bit comes off as too mean girl, which I realize has always been a huge part of Taylor's persona. But for some reason that talky bit pushes this song into "Picture to Burn" territory for me, and I don't think its a good look. Maybe its because she's such a big star now. Her being a big star is also why I am disappointed by this seemingly by the numbers pop song. I'm afraid the album is going to be similar and isn't going to be, like, her response album to Joni Mitchell's Blue or anything. I know that is a stupid thing to hope for though.

i didn't get the Joni connection, good catch

I mean, there were all the Joni quotes up and down her arms all tour, right?

I like this song fine on one listen, can't tell yet if I like it like it. I can see generic hooky pop being a concern, but my bigger fear (prompted somewhat by her Civil Wars collab) is a turn toward snoozy adult-contemporary. So if she's erring on the side of Pop, that seems preferable.

where's the country version? i can't find it.

http://tasteofcountry.com/taylor-swift-we-are-never-ever-getting-back-together/

xxxp I assume that she didn't have Joni Mitchell quotes up and down her arm, right? I have no idea. But seeing the album cover its the first thing I thought of. Then I heard the single, and realized its not a good connection to make, but it was fun to think about for like 30 minutes.

i thought about joni too re: the title

goddamn forgot to ask her people about it today though, ugh @ me

(not just joni: "blue" kinda signifies lots of ~classic albums~ to me)

I thought about that movie with Bruce Willis and Helen Mirren, but I'm not a Joni fan and "Blue" didn't immediately come to mind.

http://tasteofcountry.com/taylor-swift-arm-lyrics/

okay, it wasn't just Joni...

idk if it's looking into it too much seeing similarities in their album covers as well - both looking down in the shadows.

Has she referred much to Joni before in her work? I've always heard the opening lines of "A Case of You" in those of "Tim McGraw".

she was in talks to play joni in a biopic recently iirc?

OH MY GOODNESS. I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER ABOUT THIS SONG NOW.

This Country MIx.

Adding the guitar chords to the thumpa thumpa Max Martin drums makes ~all~ the difference.

ha re: Joni I immediately thought of King Crimson

I immediately thought of digital cameras, retired assasins, and the fight against AIDs.

xxxxxxp to how's life: oh she did have Joni quotes on her arms. I thought that comment was just making fun of me for expecting something like Joni Mitchell. I shouldn't be so defensive and sensitive, thats why I lurk so much.

and 16 songs is a lot of songs so... who knows? I do like this song better than Safe & Sound.

Country Mix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn4991lPMjg

the country mix is preferable to me but still just ok.

"safe & sound" never gave me the idea that she would 'go adult contemporary' or even that it was ac. but what do i know, i guess i have a higher tolerance for that stuff than many do

Nabisco speaks

https://twitter.com/ntabebe/status/235449124793753600

t-swift critics are gonna have to make their minds up whether they're charging her with selling a princessy happy-ever-after fairytale to impressionable young women or constantly whining about her awful relationships at some point

"why's she always SHRIEKING ON about HOW AWFUL MEN ARE" was what i constantly heard from male critics back in the 90s about tori, fiona, alanis et al btw, the answer was and continues to be BECAUSE YOU ARE AWFUL

a princessy happy-ever-after fairytale

Still say this is a legit criticism when she literally dresses like a princess and flies at her concerts.

Honest question, given how many relationships were allegedly behind the last record, who has she been dating/breaking up with the meantime?

I dunno, guys, she could have been using her imagination all those times.

she...doesn't literally fly at her concerts

i mean, if that's something else london missed out on, i'm well jel

she's dating a kennedy and i have to be honest you guys I AM WORRIED FOR HER

xposts

Oh yeah, the "original" mix helps the song a lot. Hope that's the album version.

And in re nabisco, do we really need to make a list of all of the people who've spent entire careers writing songs about relationship problems?

jake gyllenhaal, that blonde guy from glee with the big lips

don't most male songwriters blame women just as much? like most people want to look the good one in break-up situations, and taylor's critisized herself more than most

it kind of feels like "blaming men" as a thing that female songwriters do has actually largely been erased from mainstream pop culture outside of r&b

This is where a lifetime of hardly paying attention to lyrics means I have no dog in this fight, thankfully.

so glad Stevie Nicks and Joni Mitchell didn't write songs about their terrible relationships

xpost OK, she didn't "literally" fly, but she was dressed as a princess and lofted into the air on a floating balcony. Close enough, says I.

"why's she always SHRIEKING ON about HOW AWFUL MEN ARE" was what i constantly heard from male critics back in the 90s about tori, fiona, alanis et al btw, the answer was and continues to be BECAUSE YOU ARE AWFUL

― lex pretend, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:11 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

don't you mean "we"?

Don't mind me, just playin' princess:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5-WyxaCqHds/Te0oQmgogDI/AAAAAAAAEY8/sCBa80_t1Vw/s1600/DSCN1691.JPG

this is fucking terrible you guys

like, this is even beyond the level of "not my thing but at least it's written well" where I grudgingly afford Taylor some measure of respect, given that I think she can't sing a fucking note

I wish this song was a person that I could drive out to a cornfield and abandon next to the Jeepers Creepers scarecrow

Why you gotta be so mean?

at some point I'm going to record some kewpie-doll chirpy teenager singing a song titled "I Got My Period (So My Boyfriend Dumped Me ;_;)" and you guys will go apeshit for it

time's a'wastin'

The subject isn't the problem: the singing is overemphatic and flat, and the treatment is way too cute.

I'm a big TS fan and this just isn't very good at all.

very relieved that RED refers to lipstick and not that gap/bono charity venture

at some point I'm going to record some kewpie-doll chirpy teenager singing a song titled "I Got My Period (So My Boyfriend Dumped Me ;_;)" and you guys will go apeshit for it

― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is one of the greatest posts ever

If only Enchanted had been released in a single (in a way that didn't have to truncate it too much) and became the "My Heart Will Go On" of our time.

― Tim F, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:42 AM (8 hours ago)

YES

this new song depresses me tbh, and reading the description of the album only worsens that :(

this is like putting tswift through a 2012 pop generator but losing all the personality and personal charm that made her music worthwhile in the first place

I'm in the minority, I guess: I dislike not so much the indie line as the bad acting she puts into saying the line. It's like a kid wearing a big black mustache.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:14 AM (6 hours ago)

yeah i had the same thought. she does not sell this well at ALL

sorry catching up

DJP please record said song

I'm in the minority, I guess: I dislike not so much the indie line as the bad acting she puts into saying the line. It's like a kid wearing a big black mustache.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:14 AM (6 hours ago)

yeah i had the same thought. she does not sell this well at ALL

Also, not even that, but I feel like in a day where Beyonce and Gwyneth Paltrow claims to listen to Juicy J (!), Grimes, Hot Chip, Chief Keef, and Beach House, and music is so accessible via the internet, a line like "with some indie record that's cooler than mine" is selling a kind of populism that feels more annoying than indie snobbery.

^^^

haven't even heard this song yet, tbf, but YES!!!

I mean, the number of indie fans who think their favorite records are cooler than Taylor Swift is small enough not to worry about her profit share.

*small enough for her

oh i think that number dwarfs her album sales, but it's not like they're swing voters she can win over anyway

T-Swift as the Mittens of global pop.

I think people are maybe reading too much into this line - I think Taylor's just having a go at an ex (real or imaginary) who is condescending about his superior taste. She's reaching for a strawman example because it gets the point across more easily and broadly - the archetype of the boyfriend who tries to school his girlfriend on great obscure music is pretty well entrenched.

But there remains the gap between intention and result, and you know how the latter fudge the former.

I think people are maybe reading too much into this line - I think Taylor's just having a go at an ex (real or imaginary) who is condescending about his superior taste. She's reaching for a strawman example because it gets the point across more easily and broadly - the archetype of the boyfriend who tries to school his girlfriend on great obscure music is pretty well entrenched.

― Tim F, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:41 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah it's definitely other ppl that are reading too much into that taylor swift line

lol

Whatever, I don't think this is Taylor's contribution to an ILX 'Indie Guilt?' thread.

this talk about Taylor's "indie" line reminds me of the hubbub over "your record collect don't exist/ you don't even know who Liz Phair is"

that was a much better line

^^^

except, even though I agree with Tim re: it feels like a more specific swipe at a particular type of ex than a music listening demographic, I agree with Alfred et al. that it comes off as more forced/calculated a line than funny or charming?

and the Liz Phair line is the example of how to do that self-referential thing properly, in part because it's kind of self-deprecating rather than self-congratulatory

like. the liz phair line is funnier and about how she's fucking a younger dude and judging him for not knowing enough about music but also praising him for being a simple enjoyable uncomplicated fuck but it's also a joke about how she cares about her musical relevance and views herself as an indicator of how well people know music.

the taylor line, even if it's actually just about a boyfriend is kind of a 'he's a smug jerk, and i'm sarcastically mocking him for being a smug jerk." that's it.

plus Liz Phair was actually indie

i like the liz phair line more too, but i remember people frothing at the mouth about it (and that entire album) at the time

before it's all over more swift fans will probably froth at the mouth about her working with max martin than phair phans phrothed about the matrix

well let's wait until the poll in December, hm?

The eyes of the nation will be on you then, @l.

I wouldn't put much of this song, including the awkwardness of the lyrics or phrasing, past Max "My Life Would Suck Without You" Martin.

Hey, how 'bout that new song from Pink? Is that being talked about somewhere?

kelly and pink work with dude from geggy tah now, they're over max

wait you really think taylor fans on this board would "froth" over her working with max martin???

with miguel, maybe

i didn't say on this board, although there's already a fair amount of bitching about this song and blaming him for it itt

I like Max Martin, but he's had his ups and downs and if the production sucks on a song that you have production credits on, better look out.

i heartily disapprove of "my life would suck without you" being the stock negative comparator here btw, that song banged

at some point I'm going to record some kewpie-doll chirpy teenager singing a song titled "I Got My Period (So My Boyfriend Dumped Me ;_;)" and you guys will go apeshit for it

― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:30 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

lmfao

this is one of the greatest posts ever

― Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:19 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/tasteofcountry.com/files/2012/07/TAYLOR-SWIFT.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/198714_10150278299138718_6849997_n.jpg

My daughter posing with Taylor Swift.

picking her nose for her. how sweet.

She'd do anything for Taylor.

(Or she would have six months ago; I think she's moved on)

now there's a title: "Do Anything (I'd Pick Your Nose For You)"

Worst Meatloaf single ever.

so i just listened to a few recent hits, and is it fair to say that Taylor's basic deal is thinking she and her boyfriend are better than everyone else but then he cheats on her and she decides she's better than him? Like, are there examples of big songs where she does not suggest her general superiority with "we'd laugh at their vacant stares" type shit?

found "back to december"

btw, not saying you can't necessarily make great music out of this perspective, just confirming that an air of superiority is part of her deal

Is it? I think you've maybe happened on particular songs. Songs not particularly superior - Tim McGraw, Fearless, Our Song, etc.

And I don't know if you'd see Hey Stephen or whatever as superior, but stories that involve romantic competitors will always have some air of 'I am the best option' but that's less I am better than them and more I am the one waiting there all night and writing songs for you etc.

it's still true that that's a tendency in taylor swift songs, particularly wrt other women she regards herself as better than. i like her a lot (haven't heard this new song with the terrible title yet), but it's annoying. i chalk it up to being young, but it's nagl.

"hey stephen" doesn't fit that descrip, but "you belong with me" and "speak now" totally do

And like - the most superior she ever feels to me is when she's writing about small towns - see White Horse, big world/small town, etc. etc. etc.

it's her fallback topic so she gets the same pass from me that clipse does when they talk about selling drugs or when Merle sings about shitkicking or Death Grips screams about being probed by aliens or whatever

And that's less a 'superior' thing as much as a reaction to being the kid who wanted out of the small town.

sometime she's superior about sexual purity which is fucked up but also kind of interesting. there's an old epic molly lambert post about taylor swift that basically postulates that once she gets comfortable with the fact that she just wants to have sex with a lot of boys, not fall in love with them, she'll stop pulling that particular "she's better known for what she does on the mattress" bullshit

(again i really like the first three swift albums and thinks she's a tremendous songwriter)

lambert goes extremely hard: http://thisrecording.com/today/2011/2/28/in-which-your-ballroom-days-are-over-baby-they-got-the-guns.html

God, I just tried to read that. So many pictures. Jesus.

haha i love molly lambert on this recording, but she's not for everyone. lots of pictures, lots of extreme sentiments delivered in declarative sentences.

Yeah, I agree with her point, but that was just almost unreadable.

looking at it, i'm not even sure that's the lambert post i was thinking of :/ multiple gender studies through taylor swift lyrics posts on this recording.

idk why TS gets raked over the coals for employing tropes that PLENTY of other artists, male and female, do ALL THE TIME without the same reaction, or why TS adopting a particular stance in one or two or three songs means that people go right ahead to pronounce that as being "her deal" as though she - like any other artist - doesn't contradict herself from song to song

all of the problematic stuff is there, even give or take a few wilful misreadings, but there's also lots of stuff which is, like, the opposite of that

OMG, that Lambert blurt was incredible! Unreadable, but incredible! And then I clicked through to her Fleetwood Mac piece, and not only was it written the exact same way but it took 800 words before she even mentioned Fleetwood Mac. And then she just cut and pasted comments from youtube, which I had to skim to see if it ever reverted back to her authorial voice but I don't think it ever did? But I could be wrong.

just listened to this. not sure what to make of it. it's such a deliberate performance of stereotypical teen girl style that it puts me at a significant distance as a fuddy-duddy adult male listener. i felt the same way about kitty pryde, as though the persona is almost aggressively asserting the legitimacy of attitudes and styles of speech to which i can't easily relate. i don't like it, but it doesn't strike me as awful. chorus is undeniable.

it's funny that the "indie" line sticks out for so many, as much of the song is delivered in a similarly affected tone, but it's clearly an intentional provocation, so no big surprise. the air quotes teenspeak is equally theatrical on "you said you needed space - what", "you call me, i love you" and "like, ever". she's a big pop star in her mid-twenties ostentatiously playing at being "just an ordinary girl", but doing so in a way that seems quite knowing, even a bit self-mocking.

idk why TS gets raked over the coals for employing tropes that PLENTY of other artists, male and female, do ALL THE TIME without the same reaction, or why TS adopting a particular stance in one or two or three songs means that people go right ahead to pronounce that as being "her deal" as though she - like any other artist - doesn't contradict herself from song to song

i am asking for confirmation if that's her deal based on the songs I've heard

and while i think female singer-songwriters get more shit than men for regurgitating familiar woes, in general the problem with "why are people giving her grief, when so many guys get away with it?" arguments is that it could be argued that the problem is that guys are "getting away with it."

not that it's necessarily an apt comparison, but male artists who spend a lot of time complaining bitterly about relationship woes are often called "misogynist". so it's not like guys get an entirely free pass. tbh, regardless of gender, i think it's the quality of bitterness more than the fact of complaining that sets people's alarms off.

Are guys "getting away with it" or just being dismissed as dudes being dudes, as in, that battle has already been lost? Like, no one respects the gender politics of John Mayer or Adam Levine or whomever, right? They have no reputation to tarnish?

Just spitballing. Don't think TS deserves much deep thought, as much as she invites it as an easy target first-person singer public figure.

other girls get away with it too - when rihanna or nicki or missy take the "I am better than these other women" approach, which they all do A LOT, it doesn't get called out in this fashion

also part of the reason I think this song raises such hackles is that because she's conveyed the image of someone who's so above the norm in her hits that people are happy to dogpile when she descends into it, as well as the fact that her first single after the album that was uniformly reported as "taylor's letters to her exes" is a broad jingle about an ex.

xpost not saying guys "get a free pass" - and it's evolving (john mayer definitely gets more shit than say, tom petty) - but i can admit women get it worse. there are more guys in the media who scream "WELL WHY ARE YOU BLOWING DAVE COULIER/DAVID CROSBY IN THE FIRST PLACE?" than women who scream "WELL WHY ARE YOU FUCKING THAT MODEL IN THE FIRST PLACE?"

Rihanna and Missy are public ciphers though, and this is an age obsessed with celebrity and biography.

whoa now, who was blowing david crosby?

joni

missy IS better than these other women, let's not forget.

Im willing to suggest that pop music is inherently misogynistic, so in order to operate successfully in that world female pop singers have to "own it." The downside is going too far down the "own it" rabbit hole, which brings us to the Britney meltdown.

xps: gaaaaaaaah!

Unfair catch-22. Unless you're Missy, or Dolly, or one of the select few who is indeed superior.

tbf to Joni she wasn't sure she was blowing David Crosby or eating a hoagie.

Or lounging on a sweaty raft in a pool.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Qaqm69tkZXk/SEovpZhBxiI/AAAAAAAAAZw/JG022uDkZ3M/s320/barf.jpg

lex it wasn't my intention to rake Swift over the coals! Missy is a good comparison in terms of pulling the exceptional woman thing, for sure. I think their sexual politics are pretty different. I think about these things with Swift because I like her music and sometimes it frustrates me.

Rihanna doesn't mean much to me so I don't care if she does it tbh

I think the reason Lambert's been so hard on Swift in the past is because she's also invested in her fwiw.

haven't looked at the Lambert thing yet but I know from Twitter she <3s Swift

I am going to try not to get all full blown stan itt but I love lambert''s writing style >:[

on top of matters of privilege and sexual politics, TS is usually announcing her superiority in a hit ballad rather than a hit dance song. People are more apt to glaze over distinctions between confidence and smugness when there's a beat.

Again, I'm not suggesting Taylor is THE WORST. It's just you seem genuinely surprised/aggrieved she's taking heat for this stuff, lex.

I think Lambert's a great writer but I consider a putting a GIS find between each paragraph to be a near-unforgivable crime.

when I first started reading the this recording archives I was like are you fucking kidding me with these giant pictures, but after a paragraph I was like this woman can do whatever she wants afaic

i haven't read lambert much, but i didn't care for that piece. it jumped around too quickly from one attack to the next for my taste. by the time she got around to taking shots at gwynneth paltrow (for what? no way to tell), i'd lost interest.

maybe that's just cuz i lack sufficient understanding of gwynneth paltrow, i dunno

if you know who she is, that's pretty much sufficient imo

she's not really taking shots at Paltrow either, imo (though lord knows GOOP is p embarrassing). she's just talkin about gender.

read the rest of the lambert piece. it's quite good overall. still have reservations, though.

lambert starts off by drawing a "type of person" box around betty draper (a fictional "ice queen" apparently written by someone working through some hostilities), and the public personae of taylor swift and gwynneth paltrow (both of whom i regard as all but fictional characters, people i only know via mediated representation).

the language used ("prissiness", for ex) makes clear that the criticism of this type of person is inherently gendered. straight men are rarely called "prissy", unless their masculinity is being called into question. calling a woman "prissy" comes very close to calling her an "uptight bitch". it's a criticism that troubles me. i've liked paltrow in films, though she isn't one of my favorite actors. she does seem rather, uh, "prim and proper", lets say, but not in way that strikes me as a character defect.

that is the whole point iirc

i dunno, it seems to me that the "prissiness" in question is being criticized, is being related to the uncritical embrace of misogynist gender roles and sexual mores. that's seems to be why lambert is "enjoying" the schadenfreude of whatever paltrow's said to be going through atm. but i'm not sure i really understood that paragraph, so i defer to your familiarity w/ lambert's approach.

i love goop, it's so ludicrous

i mean obviously it's laughable but i haven't unsubscribed and i'm reliably amused by it

i don't know, that's just a weird reading of the lambert post to me, contenderizer. it seems clear that a deep sympathy for swift and paltrow runs through the piece because they, or at least their public personae, are caught in a thing lambert believes is not ultimately going to work out for them. "prissiness" is the single word in the whole thing that i think could be read as sexist if it weren't lambert's whole purpose to limn a "successful" performance of femininity and show how deeply unsatisfying it is from the inside.

i just want to repeat, swift's investment in those archetypes of femininity is part of what makes her an interesting songwriter to me, and to Lambert, too, i'd wager. a song like "love story" does really thoughtful, nuanced things with the kind of narrative a young woman might be inclined to fantasize about. sometimes it doesn't work out as well imo.

Ernest Hemingway grew up wearing a pink gingham dress and a bonnet until he was six. Charles Bronson likewise had to wear his sister's hand me down dress as a child, because he was so poor.

Lambert is interested in making Swift a better songwriter by forcing Swift to face the limits of her pov.

also she's just otm about how angry taylor swift is. whenever i listen to an entire taylor swift album, but esp. speak now, my impression is, don't fuck with this girl; she is terrifying.

xp yeah, that's the other thing; Lambert takes the role of critic seriously

i wish molly lambert were my friend and we could have lunch and she would talk to me in just the way she wrote her thisrecording posts, all sweeping claims and declarations.

she could even bring huge pictures and hold them up at intervals for illustration; i wouldn't mind

aaaanyway i guess i should listen to this new taylor swift song with the horrible title

i don't know, that's just a weird reading of the lambert post to me, contenderizer. it seems clear that a deep sympathy for swift and paltrow runs through the piece because they, or at least their public personae, are caught in a thing lambert believes is not ultimately going to work out for them. "prissiness" is the single word in the whole thing that i think could be read as sexist if it weren't lambert's whole purpose to limn a "successful" performance of femininity and show how deeply unsatisfying it is from the inside.

yeah, i do that though. i get caught on some irritating stray detail and miss the larger picture. basically, it seems to me that lambert's contrasting women/images of women who seem to have become ensnared in a misogynist narrative with self-defining, role-challenging rebels like curt cobain and courtney love (??? odd choices, but w/e).

personally, as a guy, i refrain from criticizing the "prissiness" that might seem to unify betty, taylor and gwynneth. i refrain because this quality is so explicitly feminine in its coding, and so frequently the target of intense male loathing. you know, the pretty but uptight & bitchy "good girl" who thinks she's better than everyone else. a massively misogynist construct in itself.

as a woman reading lambert, you don't have to worry about that, i suppose...

i just read that lambert article, it's AWESOME

also, i think taylor swift has already worked it out, but at times it's almost like she's trying to hide that she's worked it out

it's not really her point to critique them as people? (betty draper is not a real person! as a fictional character, doesn't she pretty much exist to dramatize the role gender plays in people's understanding of themselves? i mean, i don't watch that accursed show, i'm just saying. i don't think molly lambert claims to know much about the historical gwyneth paltrow, either.) it's more like critiquing a way of navigating patriarchy. if she were complaining about gwyneth paltrow's prissiness qua prissiness, it would read completely differently! (she's not complaining about gwyneth paltrow at all as far as i can tell.)

Cobain frenching Novoselic on national teevee – not a pop kiss but real tongue action – was even more subversive than the damn dress.

xp i know what you mean, lex; swift is definitely smart enough to have figured it all out, but those moments of lashing out at romantic rivals are the single most annoying thing to me about her songs. (yes, it's annoying to me when other women do this, too, particularly when they're like that other girl is a cheerleader! i'm smart! or that other girl is a slut! i'm good!)

xp

again, it's not annoying because it's mean to other women, it's annoying because it's like, you see how you just played yourself, right?

We want for Taylor Swift what we want for Betty Draper, which is for her to realize that the thing she has based her life around thus far is a fucked up lie.

WHITE HORSE! seriously, that song is precisely about admitting that you have based your life on a fairytale and realising it's a fucked up lie.

Swift won't claim her own aggression because it doesn't fit with her idea of what girls are like or should be like (pretty, docile, quiet) but she is already neither docile nor quiet.

this is interesting, because i hear TS claiming her aggression all over the place on her debut - the relish with which she sings "burn, baby, burn" at an ex on "picture to burn", the way the guitars crunch on the chorus of "should've said no" - and the further away from country she gets, the more she seems to lose this.

yeah i will say i don't think lambert gives swift enough credit in some parts of that post, or strategically ignores some songs to make her patented *sweeping claims.* but it's good. she's a force for good.

"white horse" may be one of the most masterful deconstructions of an artist's own aesthetic i've heard, actually.

she claims her own aggression in songs but not consistently in public presentation, i think is what lambert means. it was sort of hilarious to me that one grammys when swift won everything and every time she was like what? little old me? and i was like, come on lady, let your inner tracy flick out.

oh yeah the lambert piece was a+ and i think she knows that swift knows and she's just using swift as a jump-off point (and maybe a warning, because she's definitely correct that swift seems increasingly willing to play that down)

yes i think swift and paltrow and betty draper are jumping off points for that essay, which is why it makes no sense to me to criticize lambert for painting betty draper as a certain kind of person, or whatever. also, you and molly lambert and i should get brunch!

i don't know how to talk about music but why is the rhythm of the new taylor swift song's chorus so plodding? the chorus is terrible. i like the indie record line, though.

and on TS's last album, it was odd b/c the most outward aggression and meanness was directed at women, whereas the songs aimed at guys were weepy ballads - but really i think "dear john" and "innocent", far from being poor-little-old-me songs, were actually way more cutting and withering than "speak now" and "better than revenge", which were awkward attempts on TS's part to be funny (respectively, successful and very much not successful) (i don't think she's naturally funny at all, and "better than revenge" demonstrated all too well the bad comedian's quality of falling back on archetypes and hackneyed gender roles)

"dear john" is the number one taylor swift song to me that is super-terrifying, i would not want to mess with this woman. she's pissed. i like that song a lot.

i don't know how to talk about music but why is the rhythm of the new taylor swift song's chorus so plodding? the chorus is terrible.

yeah it seems very clumsy and basic - too much repetition padding it out, and pretending it's repetition-for-emphasis doesn't work. it's the chorus especially that reminds me of "my life. would suck. without you." - plodding is exactly it

not to beat a dead horse or jam up the love fest, but i get that the talor/gwynneth/betty triange was just a jumping off point, and i think it's a good piece overall. i don't reject the association of those three, but i am a little bit suspicious about the implications, about what's really being critiqued and the ways in which criticism of "traditional femininity" can reinforce misogyny. that's all.

i think it's safe to say we disagree, and i don't really see the piece in your summary of it, which is why i keep quibbling with your posts, but for the sake of the thread, we should probably leave it at that.

"dear john" is the number one taylor swift song to me that is super-terrifying, i would not want to mess with this woman. she's pissed. i like that song a lot.

yeah it's such a deliberate, elongated revenge. that's where she takes the conceit of every song being about a specific person and instead of it being a lil game to entertain her tween fans with gossipy clues, it's actually seriously personal and she wants this dude to really really feel humiliated.

"don't you think i was too young to be messed with" - it's like the secret message is that the "you" is superfluous

"dear john" is the number one taylor swift song to me that is super-terrifying, i would not want to mess with this woman. she's pissed.

If you really think this, I would stick with Molly Lambert and avoid Miranda Lambert.

i don't understand what you mean. i like miranda lambert. i get that you think molly lambert is unreadable. what happened, i am confused?

when the original link went up I thought, "Man, it's about time Miranda Lambert weighted in gender politics."

pretty good song, i think! i'm more or less indifferent but respect swift's steez etc etc. good chorus anyway, i'm looking forward to hearing it on the pop station at the gym for the next 12 mos. i guess unlike lambert (and her ilx fans) i don't find the combo of undeniable talent and slightly-caveated social conservatism to be as profoundly compelling. i wonder what it means that this doesn't sound like country anymore. but pink doesn't sound like r&b anymore either...

there's a couple claims in that lambert piece that are kind of suspect. i had no sense that BPD and narcissism are classed as female and male, respectively (minor point i guess)

"It is the thing that is scariest and most fascist about the bulk of politicians and politics in general, and why Obama is genuinely revolutionary in his feminism and aversion to macho bullshit, but also why he gets called a pussy (sigh)."

i think this is way way off

(did we talk about caitlin flanagan's piece on jfk the scary womanizer and liberals as... whatever people who fall in love/excuse scary womanizers are) (lol trolling)

i had thought that BPD was associated with women, but i can't really cite that and don't know where i got that idea from.

definitely don't think of Obama as having an aversion to macho bullshit, true. i am just going to mindlessly defend everything molly lambert ever said, though, tbh.

welp now i have to go find this stupid caitlin flanagan piece THANKS

that was one of those remarks which keeps me from thinking the piece is perfect. I'm not sure you can BE a successful pol in the U.S. without macho bullshit posturing.

the beauty of molly lambert's former blogstyle is her free association and the fact that she never cites anything, but i can see how others would disagree.

even women (e.g. HRC).

the best molly lambert thisrecording blogpost is a different one but it means too much to me to post on ilx lol

hs when i said 'lol trolling' i kind of meant myself

oh bringing up caitlin flanagan is definitely trolling

just found something on stanford's website about BPD occurring 2-3 times as frequently among women as men fwiw

whoa ok

also molly lambert rules caitlin flanagan drools

i don't understand what you mean. i like miranda lambert. i get that you think molly lambert is unreadable. what happened, i am confused?

xpost It was a joke. That is, if Taylor Swift scares you with "Dear John," then lookout for the female country singer who actually threatens to shoot you if you do her wrong. Bringing in Molly was just a goofy connector to Miranda.

i just read the caitlin flanagan on jfk article and i don't really get it

sorry for offtopic

Jeff ‏@jeff1317

I never thought I'd hear a dubstep/pop solo Taylor Swift song... but then that just happened... #red

lol?

just read a ton of molly lambert posts over last couple days bc of this thread and they are so good, esp love her writing about jack nicholson, warren beaty, sharon stone/basic instinct - all her film writing and celebrity analysis stuff is compelling. piece where she deconstructs john mayer is hilarious too - not sure if that was linked here?

<3 isn't she the best

i just wish there was like a catalog or rss feed or something where i could regularly read her writing

her writing for grantland is way less good :( she has this regular column reporting on stuff like us weekly. i don't think it adequately accommodates her genius.

i haven't looked at grantland in months, actually; maybe that's no longer true.

i haven't seen anything there remotely like her this recording format which suxx

Jeff ‏@jeff1317

I never thought I'd hear a dubstep/pop solo Taylor Swift song... but then that just happened... #red

lol?

who is that dude? lol

idk some guy who always has all the information on taylor. very reliable.

he is reliable yeah

oh shit it leaked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XemtXy7aAWA

someone should do that skrillex_bee.gif photoshop but with taylor's face on the bee's body

I smell a new song coming!
http://bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=1061154912

biggest digital sales week for a female artist eva

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2012/08/21/159559500/taylor-swift-princess-of-punk

Uh, I think Ann Powers tries a little too hard here to lump all sorts of female performers together, but hey I'm a guy (and also she might have been given a limited wordcount). And maybe discussing Poly Styrene, Aretha, Pussy Riot and Taylor here the way she does makes sense to some. And I kinda like the Avril sound Taylor's going for with Max Martin btw.

Finally, someone else who thought of Poly Styrene when they heard Taylor Swift.

"The dialect Swift adopts in her new song is obviously modeled on Lavigne's perky smirk, which itself distills and dilutes a quarter-century's worth of unladylike singers: Patti Smith, Joan Jett, Deborah Harry, Poly Styrene, Exene Cervenka, Cyndi Lauper, Kathleen Hanna, Gwen Stefani, Courtney Love."

this is true as far as it goes. But the laundry list needs editing.

As just tweeted by Popdust:

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg861/scaled.php?tn=0&server=861&filename=a0ncw.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

why were you tailgating?

Nothing better to do.

lol one of the country cable stations is playing the youtube lyric video

Uhhhhhhhhh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4iX5D9Z64

picture T trollin'

this song is actually getting worse with increased exposure and that video is not helping

it's been real, tay

gets better with more listens imo, and I like the dumb video too.

Great song, great video. Always up for a nerdy Taylor. Do the stuffed animals become Animal Collective when they go from her bedroom to the club?

No, taylor be collabbing with Flaming Lips.

i do not particularly like this song

just had the weirdest revelation that this, especially in the verses, sounds just like Los Campesinos.

the final nail in the coffin

gets better with more listens imo, and I like the dumb video too.

― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, September 4, 2012 4:27 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the goofy expressions on her awful furry band's faces are going to haunt my nightmares ;_;

i am both amused and repulsed by the animal collective in the video. sort of the same way i felt about all the kids in the crash test dummies video back when that came out.

it's mostly that one attention-seeking guitarist with the wacky facial expression, i think?

the verses in this are so forgettable :( still down w/ the hook though.

it's mostly that one attention-seeking guitarist with the wacky facial expression, i think?

Remember the tall dude who used to mug for the camera in all the early britney video clips? He's like that dude but with the naked desperation covered by a patina of "wacky" smugness.

yeah, that dude's face is burned into my brain and probably my nightmares, but I've got a crush on the cat-ears (?) violinist.

To be fair (?) to her band, I've been impressed for years now how they've stuck to their incredibly ugly hairdos / personal style even as Taylor and her shows got more and more popular. The uncool uncle wanting to be young, the hot topic clerk, etc.

No selling out there!

Yeah I think annoying grinny dude was in her band when I saw her back in 2008?

grinny dude looks almost exactly like nick grimshaw

i liked this but i sort of don't need to hear this - ever - again

it's... exhausting.

I think annoying grinny dude was in her band when I saw her back in 2008?

he was! well, he was in her band when i saw her in 2008, so. (i remember being like 'and this one is the pete wentz knock-off, and this one is the...') Mind you at that point I thought her violinist was in her late thirties because her dress sense seemed so... mutton-dressed-as-lamb.

OMG yes I thought the same thing.

she was wearing these coloured leopardprint pants that only a woman having a mid-life crisis would wear! i cannot be blamed for being confused.

And they had the face-off during "Should've Said No" with the trash can timpanis.

haha wait, Taylor was incorporating "Stomp!" into her stage show?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLUEPfleqGA

kind of extremely awesome

taylor looking bangin', still can't sing live

I was there! Pretty awesome. Rest of the vmas paled a bit. One direction is pretty big I guess? Terrible.

New single out for cancer charity, "Ronan". It's on iTunes. Very sparse, very country (lyrically at least). Good vocal performance.

stream http://eyesopen.tumblr.com/post/31087957839/ronan-taylor-swift

i've really grown to love "we are never ever"

yea ive played 'we are never' a ton

Vma performance sort of turned me around on it. Still don't think it's great, and part of that is I think there are other people doing that thing a bit better maybe, but I'm not totes against. I can't hear it without thinking of Avril's "What the Hell".

that was kinda maudlin

we are never has won me over too, when i finally noticed the we--EE in the chorus that sealed the deal

that was kinda maudlin

― call all destroyer, Friday, September 7, 2012 9:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah. well you understand why she sung it for a cancer benefit.

Yeah, I've come around "we are never.." too. I knew I would, I always do. But, I still don't like the talky part, it was especially awkward during the VMA performance.

the we-EE is the part that keeps it from being really great imo i just cant

No that's the best bit

yes that is the best bit

also the talking part is still hilarious

Yeah the new song doesn't do a lot for me until the bridge(verse?) bit at 2:57 on. The standing in the closet line is such a weird image to being it with and then "what if the miracle was even gettin one moment with you" and then that breath... bah! i get all moved.. I think if it was any one else other than Taylor singing it I wouldn't feel the same way. But then again, part of the fun of investing into one artist and following their career closely, means that sometimes they get a pass that new(to me) artists don't and I get to enjoy things I might otherwise dismiss.

"being it with" should be "begin it with"..

'never' just isn't working for me; it clicked for the first day and then I realized i never wanted to hear it again.

she wrote 10/16 tracks on this album by herself

love this new track http://woundstobindx.tumblr.com/post/32244061547/taylor-swift-begin-again-took-a-deep-breath-in

oh wow this is absolutely fantastic

i've been spending the last 8 months
thinking all love ever does is
break
and burn
and end
but on a wednesday
in a cafe
i watched it begin again

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

marred with a slight bit of NO NO NO at the news that that lead singer from train is involved in one of the songs on the album lol... ed sheeran and train. it just literally doesn't get worse.

You said you never met one girl
Who has as many James Taylor records as you
But I do

And you, will hide away and find your piece of mind with some indie record that's much cooler than mine

So the last record was all about ex-boyfriends, this one is all about record collections?

yeah i had the same thought

Giving me hope for the album, dub step and Ed Sheeran aside.

Like, not as much finesse as her best ballads but this is much more in the vein of what I want.

This album is about boyfriends' record collections.

she was across the street from my store and she didn't come in and buy any tammy wynette records from me!!!!

"On Saturday, Swift, 22, and Kennedy, 18, headed for the intimately lit Taylor’s Tavern & Restaurant in Greenfield, Mass., a quaint New England town only a few miles from Kennedy’s prep school in Deerfield."

taylor's tavern is blah but i guess they went cuzza the name. apparently they went to hope & olive too which is my friend maggie's restaurant.

to be honest, they might have come in and it probably never would have occurred to me that it was her.

"begin again" is so good <3

oh look it's that i've-just-played-this-song-20-times-on-loop-and-am-utterly-overwhelmed feeling i'd been missing from this t-swift campaign <3 <3 <3

all those fleeting things you think for just a moment captured so well <3

simultaneous external/internal narratives <3

"i think it's strange you think i'm funny cuz he never did" <3 <3

Yes this is excellent. Love the cover (if that's real) as well.

the joni signifiers are really coming thick and fast now, right?

- image-wise, the resemblance on that cover is surely not accidental - not just the hair and the dress but the general pose
- the title of the album as counterpoint to blue
- cafe reference
- JAMES TAYLOR reference

like...nothing specific or definite, but we know how taylor has a knack of using these things that fleetingly remind you of something else

i love how the phrase "i do" shifts meaning throughout, from the initial means of clinging on to her own identity to finding things in common with someone else, and of course the echo of marriage vows...i BET she thought about writing a verse to this song that ended with her saying "i do" at the wedding

Wouldn't be the first time.

i'm sure james taylor is interested if swift is

i BET she thought about writing a verse to this song that ended with her saying "i do" at the wedding

was legit shocked on first listen when this did not happen, thought it bespoke Mature Restraint

this is lovely.

yeah i got this shit on repeat

http://we-nevergettingback.tumblr.com/post/32725725820/taylor-swift-red-loving-him-is-like-driving

well hell

"I call her Red / yeah yeah yeah"

is this the first time she ever ceded a hook to an instrument?

can't wait to get home and hear this

interviewing her this week btw

interviewing her this week btw

!

Ask her some critical questions about letting producers take the reigns on certain tracks (although if uberweiss is correct it's not the majority of the album and these two latest tracks suggest classic taylor, I need to know why she let lame people mess with her steez (probably to get that smash mega hit, but))

There aren't many artists/people I really like and would also have lots of urgent questions to ask in an interview setting, but TS is one of them. Pressure is on you.

the problem is she's enjoyed several smash mega hits

ask her t;o mary me

this new one is fucking great

new song is lovely of course. such a talented vocalist, making even that crossword line sound not completely embarrassing

lex you are the LUCKIEST GUY EVER. can not wait for that interview, i'm expecting some hard-hitting shit

part of the problem with modern society is that people say things like "such a talented vocalist" about artists like Taylor Swift without even a hint of irony

i'd love to see dan interview taylor swift

lex make taylor admit that she's just using ed to establish herself in the uk and that she doesn't actually think he's any good

how do we not have a tracklist for this 20 days before release?

confirmed tracks:
we are never ever getting back together
begin again
red
everything has changed (feat. ed sheeran)
i knew you were trouble
state of grace
holy ground

12 more titles to come isn't this exciting

back on the bandwagon with "red" !!

that chorus!

I really like "Begin Again", and I was in one of those annoying spots where it was naggingly reminding me of another record, but I couldn't remember which. Turns out it was "Your Next Lover" off Lori McKenna's "Unglamorous" LP, worth a quick listen for compare / contrast purposes.

Track listing:

1. State Of Grace
2. Red
3. Treacherous
4. I Knew You Were Trouble
5. All Too Well
6. 22
7. I Almost Do
8. We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together
9. Stay Stay Stay
10. The Last Time
11. Holy Ground
12. Sad Beautiful Tragic
13. The Lucky One
14. Everything Has Changed
15. Starlight
16. Begin Again

haha this gets released mere HOURS after my interview, cheers guys

how did it go

"you are so legit" - her, to me

i have no words

omg

omfg how are you even alive after she said that to you ashdjfjsdfn

so it went well then? :D

Although really anything will be satisfying after the jonathon ross bullshit I just witnessed. "YOU HAVE HAD SO MANY BREAK-UPS WHAT IF YOU GET IN A HAPPY RELATIONSHIP AND THEN YOU CAN NEVER WRITE A SONG EVER AGAIN LOL"

omfg how are you even alive after she said that to you ashdjfjsdfn

That is awesome.

I'm far from a Swift devotee, but damn if "Begin Again" isn't a thing of beauty.

YOU HAVE HAD SO MANY BREAK-UPS WHAT IF YOU GET IN A HAPPY RELATIONSHIP AND THEN YOU CAN NEVER WRITE A SONG EVER AGAIN LOL"

guilty feet have got no rhythm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY19UekAORQ&feature=youtu.be

New song... this is the "dubstep" one, apparently?

this song is fucking good

whats the title? its not showing up for me

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/i-knew-you-were-trouble

like

Boy, that's really good.

can't believe taylor is dating skrillex

Skryllor

OMG at this being amazing rather than a trainwreck.

Holding my tongue about this one has been hard. So good!

this song is really incredible

fuckkkkkkkkkk yesssssssss

this is really really amazing. i'm having trouble parsing the second line of the chorus which is hindering my singing along

i knew you were trouble when you walked in
it's a shame i ??? that
?? flew me to places i'd never been
til you put me down

"so shame on me now"

it's so much better than I would've imagined "Taylor Swift dubstep song" could be. Like crazy amazing.

You guys' enthusiasm for this is adorable.

Something about the song irked me at first, but I can imagine a "Since U Been Gone" sort of hipster embrace of this one.

hm. 'now' has a weirdly elongated two-syllable pronunication.

also, 4nth0ny 3ast0n and I have been ruminating on Taylor's trajectory in the light of 'RED' on facebook and I figured I'd crosspost it because I think it's a discussion worth having while we sit around here and talk Taylor:

AE: the best thing about red is that it's Taylor pushing herself out of the nashville ghetto, the anti country positioning is fascinating

Me: Well, she's always been pushing herself out of Nashville and small towns. And she's always been an anti-country country star

AE: oh, of course--but this album, is fucking fantastic because she has taken every single ball and gone home. Also, this song is great.

Me: Like, as far back as the self-titled when she was 15, small towns and small town boys and small town values weren't celebrated per normal country tropes but rejected as small-minded and clingy and undesirable (cf. 'Tim McGraw' 'A Place in This World' etc.). By 'Fearless' she's writing 'Fifteen' which is explicitly about "in your life you'll do things greater than dating the boy on the football team" "back then I thought I was gonna marry him someday, but I realized some bigger dreams of mine." And White Horse, "This is a big world / That was a small town / There in my rearview mirror, disappearing now"

AE: Fullt conceded--but those were aspirational, and this is beyond aspirational--she has finally lived up to the potential Kanye saw in her. Totes a meta-narrative there. This becomes the logical conclusion of it.

Me: Yeah, of course. I just meant that while Speak Now and RED have both been more sonically adventurous than the first two country albums (which I still suspect I will end up liking more) her songwriting/narrative/moral/personal values that she's been shilling have never been the small-town Christian feminine morality that she gets accused of. The small-town girl using songwriting to get up and get out. Which now puts her closer to Ashlee on Autobiography, I guess.

AE: Okay, how does that compare to Miranda Lambert then--who tries to have both?

Me: (Oh and if we're tracking the narrative, 'Mean' off of Speak Now, where small-town high school kids are the worst but "Someday I'll be living in a big old city and all you're ever gonna be is mean.")

AE: That line has always struck me as really queer--it's the sort of thing i said to myself as a gay highschool kid--the rest of it not so much, but that one line

Me: e: Miranda. Miranda lives in and loves small-towns but calls them out on what they are. Miranda is happy inhabiting the space of being the 'bad girl' in the small town who drinks and smokes and has sex that they disapprove of. On her solo stuff that feels like ~her~ authentically. On the Pistol Annies record it feels more like a persona, but Miranda, much as I love her, is still defining herself and her rebellion and her wanderlust in contrast to her surroundings. Taylor chafes against those constraints when she's stuck there but isn't invested in adopting the position of 'rebel' or 'bad girl' so much as just getting the hell out. IDK. (I guess Miranda gets out in 'New Strings' but it's not something she writes about a lot.) Also, queering Taylor Swift songs is my favourite thing ever, because how *isn't* for example, You Belong With Me, totally queer in sentiment. All of Taylor's (and all of Robyn's) unrequited love songs are secretly about closeted teenage gay dudes in love with their high school best friends.

AE: Okay, this is half a conversation i have had with a million people--but i think that the Taylor/Miranda dialectic is one of rural/urban--but small towns like the one Miranda positions herself as the black sheep don't exist anymore and Swift's discussions of her urbanity seem generic. (or to queer it, they are the kind of discussions that small town fags have when they think of THE CITY--not any city.) (Which makes me think, you know--are there any good country songs that talk about suburban malaise--where the poet laureate of Phoenix's sprawl, or the towns b/w Tallahassee and Pensacola)

Me: Well, because Swift never actually got to go to 'THE CITY' no? She went from small-town Pennsylvania to Nashville to start writing music, and while that's *a* city, it's not really an 'urban' space that she lived in in the way we (or she) would think of it and now she's too busy being famous, so the city is always aspirational on her earlier stuff or imagined in songs like 'Mine' about college romance and whatever.

AE: True, of course. But don't you get the feeling that she has one great LA song in her--like full Joni ca Ladies of the Canyon

Me: idk. Taylor skipped over the super-folky and/or narrative Joni of Ladies of the Canyon and right to confessional Blue. And her song-writing qua song-writing, sonics and arrangements aside have gotten less observational and detailed overtime, not more. She might have it in her, but not while she's chasing the pop charts (and that's fine, but it's not happening any time soon.)

Figured there'd be thoughts here on Taylor Swift --> Fearless --> Speak Now --> RED, or on Taylor & urban/rural or on queering Taylor or any of those things.

what's especially amazing is that it's the dubstep drop that is specifically amazing

looking back at my notes from when i first heard this my pen literally just veers off into a gigantic straight line of shock - there was nothing to suggest it was coming! then i just wrote WTF and OMG a lot. then "already trying not to sing out loud" then some hearts. i take very intelligent notes. GOD SO GLAD I GET TO HEAR THIS AGAIN AND ON REPEAT.

anyway falalalala just off to hear this whole album now

i KNEW you WERE troublewhenyouwalkedin
so SHAME ON ME NOW

her "oh"s on this fucking song

that moment when i tried to press the volume button to turn the chorus up but inadvertently turned the stereo OFF and the music DIED was the worst moment of my life

have to play it again to make up for that

RULES.

erm lex can you give us every single detail of every single song or would that like maybe be breaking some sort of rule

and when is this interview published

erm i signed a thing :(

i'll just say :D

(next fri)

if not included in the interview i want full details here on the 'legit' part of the convo

2 legit 2 swift

Huh, I never thought of Reading as "small town PA." Home of ample outlet shopping, yes, but not small town PA.

i don't have voicemail or a ringtone, so i need to think of another way in which i can c/p her saying "you are so legit" from the mp3 of the interview and plaster it over my life in some way

set it as your morning alarm

"The Nashville ghetto"

do u not have voicemail or a ringtone bc you don't know how to use phones?

my phone is always on silent and i have disabled voicemail

So is "I Knew You Were Trouble" going to have the obligatory "country mix"?

my phone is always on silent and i have disabled voicemail

^^^ good lyric

i don't have voicemail or a ringtone, so i need to think of another way in which i can c/p her saying "you are so legit" from the mp3 of the interview and plaster it over my life in some way

― lex pretend, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:55 PM (5 hours ago)

for the love of god post it here!

be careful, could unleash a flood of other interviewers who post their own 'you are so legit' recordings, then how would you feel

http://2legit2quit.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/36286.gif

OMG, OMG, you guys!!!!!

http://www.scholastic.com/readeveryday/taylor-swift-live-webcast.htm?esp=CORP/ib/20120913/CorpHP/tout/TaylorSwift/ReadEveryday//////

haha sway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlujizeNNQM

http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2012/10/12/papa-johns-taylor-swift-promoting.html

http://assets.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/Papa%20Johns%20Taylor%20Swift.jpg

"We Are Never Ever Eating Together"

"Dear Papa John"

Teardrops On My Quatro Formagio

15 (Slices)

Eating pepperoni when I first saw you...

Beautiful Pies

Pizza to Burn

ordering the kind of pizza she doesn't like

When you think extra cheese, please think of me

Some Mom and Pop pizza that tastes better than mine

Never thought we'd have the deep dish
Never imagined we'd eat like this
Your taste, forever the taste on my lips

Dear Papa Joooooohn

on her snow patrol shit with "state of grace"

this was one of my immediate favourites in the playback, it's a great opener

the drums >>>
the vocal switch-up >>>>>>>>>>

TS at her most soldier-of-love

yeah, this could be the best of her 'big songs' she usually closes albums with. love the melodic ornaments.

the drums >>>

otm

Is Begin Again the only Chapman production we have from RED, or is State of Grace him also? I'm glad she hasn't ditched him - they work well together.

listening to state of grace. is this some generic pop rock song or what

now "i knew you were in trouble". yet another generic pop rock song. dammit will there be any country or at least something that's as catchy as "we were never going back" in this album?

now "i knew you were in trouble". yet another generic pop rock song.

lol are you serious?

are YOU serious?

Guys, guys, no one's in trouble here. Let's be cool.

this is a state of grace
this is the worthwhile fight
love is a ruthless game
unless you play it good and right
THESE ARE THE HANDS OF FATE
YOU'RE MY ACHILLES' HEEL
THIS IS THE GOLDEN AGE
OF SOMETHING GOOD AND RIGHT AND REAL

"Golden age" feels like an important phrase for this album

so it turns out that the dude from snow patrol is ACTUALLY ON THE ALBUM, and it's not even this song!

Let's not discuss that ;_;

i don't even understand the logic

she already has ed sheeran to get more uk success, surely one awful voice is enough. nobody cares about snow patrol

maybe she actually likes them

http://www.readymanservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/iStock_000008179715XSmallleaky-faucet.jpg

moment in opening of "22" where she does not say "it feels like a perfect night to dress up like hitler" most disappointing moment of year so far

oh fucking a

"All Too Well" destroyed me a little bit

second half of "treacherous"

I'm almost hoping to be disappointed!

Kate Bush is the only artist to make a batshit-awesome song with a Hitler reference so

this is a state of grace
this is the worthwhile fight
love is a ruthless game
unless you play it good and right
THESE ARE THE HANDS OF FATE
YOU'RE MY ACHILLES' HEEL
THIS IS THE GOLDEN AGE
OF SOMETHING GOOD AND RIGHT AND REAL

― lex pretend, Wednesday, October 17, 2012 3:17 PM

lex, this is not encouraging

ofl i actually thought this album was almost entirely terrible but i'm not gonna get strident about it yet

(for calibration i cried multiple times on first listen to the last one)

listened up 2 'we are never'.....this is a v good album, rest tmrw

dammit i'm gonna end up buying this aren't i

TREACHEROUS

the strings! the thousand taylors!

just gonna type every song title in here in all caps probably sorry

ofl i actually thought this album was almost entirely terrible but i'm not gonna get strident about it yet

(for calibration i cried multiple times on first listen to the last one)

cannot even begin to understand your perspective

the big ol slabs of edgeguitar on all the Major Ones clogged my arteries p quick and she's way worse at ke$ha's hedonist triumphalism on 22 than she was at hayley williams' envious moralizing on better than revenge and the lyrics i heard were unspecial (with the exception of all too well which i got misty on and the title track which is now the most tasteless thing on the shortlist for the end credits of my stalin biopic) and the one that had snow patrol on it deserved to

much luv for taylor as always tho!

Pretty sure I'll end up liking this more than Speak Now yeah.

Feel she touches more on her classic craft here than on that one. On "I Almost Do" , "Treacherous" and "All Too Well" she blends the s/t and Fearless styles while successfully allowing herself to do some different things sonically and vocally. On SN the attempts at renewal felt more experimental.

The tearjerkers are pretty irresistible as well.

So far.

Martin tracks really stand out as something different than the rest (except 22)

don't know how i feel about the snow patrol dude showing up halfway through this thing

stephen thomas erlewine compared "sad beautiful tragic" to mazzy star which is kind of right on

All Too Well tho, damn.

worst t. swift lyrics ever on "starlight" y/n

nice tune tho

oh no have i missed it all argh,.

calling "holy ground" the best thing on here

hooray
hooray

i guess i can say that "all too well" was my OMG favourite on one listen now

the duets are both dreary and unnecessary but the rest is so good that it doesn't matter

i loved "22"

how has no one mentioned THE LANA DEL REY ONE yet

not totally sure which one you think that is

"the lucky one"

the one which is basically britney's "lucky" except about a girl who transformed herself into a 60s starlet and then there are LYNCHIAN GUITARS in the second verse

and then there is another amazing twist and it's prob not LDR after all but until the twist i was seriously thinking that

yeah my immediate association with that one was "lucky" and there's so much ghostly guitar reverb on this record that it's hard for me to pin it to lynch particularly

i don't have my notes with me but iirc the first seven tracks blew me away and after that a few inessential songs creep in. get rid of sheeran and lightbody and there wasn't a song i actually disliked though.

"we are never..." - in the context of the album (ie nothing else is like it) i'm far more ok with it and its vapidity; it's kind of like, you have to actually parody yourself in order to move on? i'm sure there must be other examples of artists doing this.

"stay stay stay" is great, it's the only out-and-out country moment really.

xp there was def a really obvious lynchian MOMENT - am just going on memory from the playback

am going to have to wrestle with my bf's ridiculous stereo system to listen today, gah

"22" is "15" sequel, yeah? (she said yeah.)

i think the snow patrol dude song would be really good w/o the snow patrol dude

oh well

yeah i thought that too!

I couldn't identify a single snow patrol song so he's just a dude voice to me.

also i said on twitter earlier that "i almost do" and "we are never ever getting back together" are kind of the same song in very small ways, feel like their placement together is way deliberate and it's awesome

i am only at snow patrol now and the guitar bit is lovely

also, not the right place to say this but - lex the boy is a proper 'bf' now huzzah yay etc. YAY

actually that is an appropriate sentiment for a taylor thread.

too many thoughts so i am livetweeting them all here: https://twitter.com/lex_ferenda

amazing that the muffled drum bullshit of jeff bhasker actually serves "holy ground." it's so insistent yet totally contained

also, not the right place to say this but - lex the boy is a proper 'bf' now huzzah yay etc. YAY

that was more about the need for a shorthand

officially will defend the ed sheeran duet even though it's the most inconsequential thing on here

whatever. u like a boy.

enjoying that xpost

listening now. FUCKING HELL "ALL TOO WELL". like i knew i'd been blown away by it but it just happened again

wait lex had you not heard it since the listening session? OMG OMG

no!! they let us listen once! this is how playbacks work! they are the devil's work.

and that's the basis for an album review?

for some publications, yes

"stay stay stay" will be sleeper favourite, just irresistible. Dear Old Taylor

ludicrous lyrical conflation of "i knew you were trouble" and "99 problems" happening in my head

hey, you called me up again just to break me like a promise / so casually cruel in the name of being honest

and all we are is skin & bone
trained to get along
forever going with the flow
but you're friction

"treacherous" is fucking masterful. and...sensual

just noticed that she changes the chorus from "this slope is treacherous" to "this hope is treacherous" at the end. of course she does

why did chapman get "axed" anyway?

I quite like "Holy Ground," especially those guitars; it's like a pop version of an Easter-era Patti Smith track.

Chapman wasn't axed. She speaks about it In a recent interview. She wanted to try some new songs styles after collaborating with so many different people in concert on the Speak Now tour and he encouraged her to branch out. He still coproduced a handful of songs on the album. I just don't know which ones offhand. He did Begin Again at least.

'22' is a guaranteed fuckin smash hit

dont really have a problem w the snow patrol 1 but then again i like the carly rae jepsen w owl city song so ymmv. it sounds kinda like a plaintive lil stars (torquil campbell etc) song

still am blissfully unawares wut a ed sheeran is outside of the context of this

'the lucky one' does sound like LDR, esp the 1st minute or so, it's ok

really like 'starlight' also - chorus is great & it has v dope momentum

omigod the Snow Patrol guy's part is dreadful.

this made me appreciate WANEGBT even more:

Later, in a sidestage room, the ponytailed singer calls Never Ever "a definitive portrait of how I felt when I finally stopped caring what my ex thought of me." But Swift still had to exact vengeance on the guy who "made me feel like I wasn't as good or as relevant as these hipster bands he listened to."

"So I made a song that I knew would absolutely drive him crazy when he heard it on the radio. Not only would it hopefully be played a lot, so that he'd have to hear it, but it's the opposite of the kind of music that he was trying to make me feel inferior to."

And why would Swift want to create a single specifically designed to torment someone?

"Because that's fun."

I've listened to this three times and almost exactly like all her other previous work, I'm astounded by the first half and a little iffy on the second, though it ends strong. I'll co-sign DLH thinking the lyrics are her most "unspecial" thus far (I'd say this is true for roughly half of the songs) but I'm so happy with how this album sounds, including the assuredness of her vocals.

Also: I JUST LIKE TO HANG OUT WITH YOU ALL THE TIME. <3

'All Too Well' and "Holy Ground" are my new standouts - All Too Well lyrically, Holy Ground as a song. All Too Well is like Dear John or Last Kiss, which are my new sorts of favourite Taylor songs. Slow building narratives that pile on detail and nuance and cut across memories and dates and then erupt in moments of catharsis and anger and/or sadness.

Not sure if Sad Beautiful Tragic fits in here or not. Lyrically it seemed a bit simpler than her other heartbreak waltzes. We'll see.

You call me up again just to break me like a promise / So casually cruel in the name of being honest.

Is seriously bringing me to the edge of emotional upset every time I hear it in ways nothing has since that point around 4:30 in 'Last Kiss' where she pulls out

"You can plan for a change in the weather and time / But I never planned on you changing your mind" and then that PAUSE.

the one that kills me in that is "I feel you forget me like I used to feel you breathe," while in "All Too Well" I try to keep it together until the scarf pops back up and I lose it, like the one Julianne Moore wears at the end of Far From Heaven.

the scarf bit doesn't feel sad to me? the line about plaid shirt days and the way that you subsume your identity into what he wants you to be is intense and real, but by the time the scarf reappears it feels like a softer kinder version of the evisceration at the end of dear john.

it's not quite shining like fireworks over your sad empty town, but it's that last minute reversal of feelings from her to him that she's been doing since Tim McGraw when the last chorus went from wistful to 'hear this song on the radio and realize how bad you messed up'

"all too well" is a highlight for me

"dance around the kitchen in the refrigerator light" OHHHHHH MANN

omg "22" is incredible too

the first few tracks seemed a little less impactful than "all too well" and "22" but that's prolly cause i'm working thus not paying 100% attention

the first half is more or less perfect. the back half is where i have more issues. duets aside, i love stay stay stay but it feels like a bonus track a la 'Ours' on the last album. it's almost an old taylor song but it's more self-conscious. the country isn't being entirely played straight anymore. sad beautiful tragic should be great, but the chorus isn't clicking entirely for me. Holy Ground and Begin Again number among the LP's best songs though.

probably will never get around to hearing this but

You call me up again just to break me like a promise / So casually cruel in the name of being honest. is an amazing line.

oh my god and the delivery you have no idea.

that song alone you should listen to because it is swift doing best what she does best.

after two listens I find the album lumpy, misshapen. Even the songs she wrote by herself sound too deliberate, too studio-bound. I don't hate it though. The album reminds me of Miranda Lambert's own uneven last albums -- young women who created a character and now struggling for a sound and ethos commensurate with their maturity.

I do like "Stay Stay Stay" though -- it's a perfect throwaway.

Don't particularly like Swift's music or any of the new songs I've heard, but I do love the idea of someone so totally aware that the song she just recorded will get played a lot on the radio and will drive her ex crazy, not least because she crafted it to be the polar opposite of music from a completely different scene that she is also totally aware of.

"begin again" is incredible

"dance around the kitchen in the refrigerator light" OHHHHHH MANN.

Agreed. Although the real killer is "After plaid shirt days and nights when you made me your own /
Now you mail back my things and I walk home alone." "When you made me your own" made me start when I was first listening to the song - the clearest indication yet that she's not about fairy tales and princesses anymore. The picking back up on the scarf at the end of the song is brilliant - it's like whatever Chekhov said about a loaded gun in act one that must go off in act five.

But the "dance around the kitchen in the refrigerator light" is a brilliant line, too, and it recalls the "dance around the room in your PJs getting ready for school" line in "Never Grow Up." And there's a section of "All Too Well" that looks at the boyfriend's childhood in the same way as she looked at her own in "Never Grow Up" -

Photo album on my counter
Your cheeks were turning red
You used to be a little kid with glasses in a twin size bed
And your mother's telling stories 'bout you on the t-ball team

recalls

Your little hands wrapped around my finger
And it's so quiet in the world tonight
Your little eyelids flutter 'cause you're dreaming
So I tuck you in, turn on your favorite night light

She has a collection of core themes and images that she returns to over and over again in her songwriting. Although I think "All Too Well" might be her best song yet.

"Starlight" has maybe the greatest chorus melody of any song that she, or anyone, has ever written.

btw lex, great piece

Yeah. Really good.

or should I say LEGIT piece

nice piece lex!

Now you mail back my things and I walk home alone." "When you made me your own" made me start when I was first listening to the song - the clearest indication yet that she's not about fairy tales and princesses anymore. The picking back up on the scarf at the end of the song is brilliant - it's like whatever Chekhov said about a loaded gun in act one that must go off in act five.

― Driver 8, Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:12 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no longer chekhov's gun, it is not deemed taylor's scarf

now* instead of not

Agreed. Future literature students will study Taylor's scarf.

extended bridge in 'holy ground' sounds exactly like "to call for hands above to lean on, wouldn't be good enough for me no"

just read your piece lex, super stuff. would be nice if the haters could find another thread to hang out on but yknowitsilm.

the what

A+, lex

"haters"

"Starlight" is proof that Taylor is from an advanced civilization in the future, and has been sent back in time to teach us how to perfect popular music.

"Starlight" X-post with the Segue thread--

Oh my, what a marvelous tune
It was the best night, never would forget how we moved
The whole place was dressed to the nines
And we were dancin, Dancin' with Mr. D

Great interview/analysis, Lex. The closing bit about the car is great.

it's cool how incestuous this place is that nobody even bothers to link to the piece

What's it going to take for TS to listen to and love this album before she starts writing her next release?
http://991.com/gallery_180x180/Rickie-Lee-Jones-Pirates-298551-991.jpg

what's this lex's article you guys are talking about?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/oct/18/taylor-swift-want-believe-pretty-lies

enjoyed it, nice job lex.

thanks y'all

do i school the commenters who are going on about slut-shaming and virginal images? can't be bovd tbh

just don't even fucking go there. guardian comments are such a cesspit of fat middle aged men in offices swinging their tiny dicks around.

there are always a couple of really nice ones though!

really i don't scan the "i don't even like pop music" ones any more (like wtf are you doing commenting on an article ABOUT POP MUSIC then), but the ongoing "TS is feminism's worst nightmare" beef is just based in so many outright inaccuracies that it annoys me particularly. just wanna thoroughly fisk those arguments

you should!

Good piece, The Lex. So happy I can't see the comments from here.

speaking as a noncommittal non-close reading average-ass listener, this is a v good album and i thoroughly enjoyed it. (apart from when snow patrol dude showed up). (also maybe a couple songs too long, not that the songs are bad).

congrats to the lex first and foremost for introducing the guardian to "throwing shade"

Irl fistpump when that wasn't subbed out

really enjoyed the piece lex. can't wait to hear this.

Um. Confession. The Ed Sheeran track is really growing on me. Alot. I was skipping it but then I wasn't paying attention and I've heard it three or four times now and I kind of like it a lot.

Not as much as my new favourite 'Stay Stay Stay' but still.

AND I GUESS WE FELL APART IN THE USUAL WAY
AND THE STORY'S GOT DUST ON EVERY PAGE

stay stay stay for real is taylor effortlessly doing what she does best. like 'ours' it's not super ponderous or deep or whatever. it's a trifle.

but it's the kind of thing that delights and is delightfully crafted and that she could probably write in her sleep in 2012.

it's also the only thing that has the pure joy of something like 'hey stephen'. nuTaylor joyousness is A++ wonderful, but her ability to convey it without the big sweep of strings is fun too.

(see also: the piss-take joyful relishing of stealing a man at the altar in 'speak now')

anyway, i was wrong about it. it's not cutesy. it's funny.

i'm pretty sure we almost broke up last night / i threw my phone across the room at you / i was expecting some dramatic turn away but youuuuuuuu / stayed.

this morning i said we should talk about it / because i heard you should never leave a fight unresolved / that's when you came in wearing a football helmet / and said "okay, let's talk"

oh my god the football helmet line totally passed me by until now

that

wow

i really don't get the criticism that the lyrics aren't as special. there are so many perfectly judged lines on this album, so many passing details that you almost miss and so many elegant ways of putting things.

"all we know / is touch and go / we are alone with our changing minds" - and then you remember that the casual, low-key "changing minds" is one of those swiftian motifs, not as obvious as tuesday nights or kissing in the rain, but her way of conveying how heartbreak is so easily and thoughtlessly inflicted, and the line becomes devastating. and then what she changes it to a verse later! "all we know / is don't let go / we are alone, just you and me / up in your room and our slates are clean" - forgiveness of the previous verse, redemption of it.

"put your lips close to mine, as long as they don't touch / out of focus, eye to eye til the gravity's too much" - and they say she presents herself as virginal. L-O-L.

recurrence of traffic lights throughout this!

interesting angle on the album, and taylor generally: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/oct/18/taylor-swift-red-review

real pity it was just a capsule review, b/c there are some things to unpack in there! impressive that at this point anyone can come up with a really original angle on taylor that i've never seen before.

also i'm kind of impressed that "the lucky one" continues to go undiscussed considering how baity it is (and as a song it's getting kinda underrated! the twist is awesome!)