Before I get POLLED: the WHO voting and nominations thread (ilm artist poll #25: deadline Friday, September 7)

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ku1edxF3Pr1qa770po1_500.jpg

Welcome to the poll, I guess you all know why you're here.
My name is Tarfumes, and I hope the rules are clear.
If you want to vote, you've got to send an e-mail.
Pick out your favorites, put them in order, you know where to put your votes.

Pick your 20 favorites, which will be scored like so:
1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28, 6:26, 7:25, 8:24, 9:23, 10:22, 11:21, 12:20, 13:19, 14:18, 15:17, 16:16, 17:15, 18:14, 19:13, 20:12.

Anything credited to the Who, or the High Numbers, is eligible (including solo Pete songs on Who albums).

If you're voting for a live version, please specify; enough votes may warrant a separate entry. Otherwise, results will be combined.

BONUS ROUND!
Your five favorite Who albums! Everything's eligible! Live, studio, soundtrack, bootleg, or compilation!

ANOTHER BONUS ROUND!
Your 5 least-favorite Who songs! Does "There's A Doctor" make you ill? Is "Eminence Front" just a put-on?

Send your ballot to tarfumes at g mail dot com.

Deadline is 11:59pm, September 7 (US east coast time)

Yayyy!

Least-favorite is a good side poll for this band.

This is the best discography I could find (there are others, but they really get into the weeds with alternate mixes etc.)

I'm curious to see what will be this poll's version of Sway, ie a relatively obscure song overwhelmingly beloved by ILM.

Possibly I Can't Reach You, or maybe Christmas.

http://www.songfacts.com/artist-the_who.php

List of songs by The Who

Quite a lot missing off that page, tho

This one is better, it has the 'various artists' tracks off the Polydor "Quadrophenia" film soundtrack though.

http://www.song-list.net/thewho/songs

Still a few things missing (no "Dogs," for one).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkEpopoiqtw

also...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U9uGSGUliM

Just want to remind everyone to be sure to give "Heaven and Hell" a fair shake in this one...

Oh, I forgot "Dogs", but it may not have made my top 20 anyway.

Ballot Sent!

Similar to the Rolling Stones, I'm guessing the cut-off point will break voters into four (maybe) five distinct groups. Some, like me, will stop with Who's Next; some will stop with Quadrophenia. Some will go farther. Some may even stop before Tommy.

Tarfumes, I love that Moony photo <3

Too bad we're not all in one big office where this would be easy to do, or I'd start a $1 pool for picking the position of the highest-placing post-Moon track. Closest gets the dough, earliest entry as tiebreaker.

It would probably be You Better You Bet or Eminence Front. Although the correct answer is Mike Post Theme.

If you've never heard that, do yourself a favor and check it out. You will be in for a treat.

"Eminence Front" of course, no?

that song is so dope

I dunno...Eminence is probably going to end up on my worst. Something about that song, I just haaate it

Yeah but I'm talking about picking its position in the final voting, not which song.

It would probably be You Better You Bet or Eminence Front. Although the correct answer is Mike Post Theme.

Indeed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Zmh-KlYZo

Tarfumes, I love that Moony photo <3

I was looking through tons of photos thinking, which one best illustrates what set the Who apart from, say, Zeppelin or the Stones? And there it was.

my knowledge of their catalog - which is a total mess, of course - drops steeply after the mid-70s, after which I pretty much only know the hits. this will be an interesting poll tho

Yeah I don't know much after Quadrophenia

weird how few albums they actually put out, compared to their contemporaries

The Who By Numbers is great (I love it almost as much as Quadrophenia), and Who Are You has its moments. There are a total of five decent songs among the two 80s records, but Endless Wire is way better than anyone had any right to expect.

I'm def going to dig into Who By Numbers and Who Are You.

Underrated Ox Classics I Have Loved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axk1NMYq76E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p0m2E7eQKA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6fFtWi318s

Love Trick of the Light

Ballot sent. Wanted to vote in the Cure and Kate polls but didn't have enough of their later albums to do it justice. Not that I've voted for anything later than Who by Numbers in this one!

Who By Numbers is definitely good.

I picked one track; if there had been 40 choices I might have gone for a few more, like Slip Kid, However Much I Booze or Dreaming from the Waist. Didn't do a worst of poll, but Squeeze Box would be a natural candidate.

weird how few albums they actually put out, compared to their contemporaries

True, but they put out a lot of non-album singles, probably more than the Beatles or Stones. There's about a double-album's worth of singles and b-sides, pre-Tommy.

Every live version ive heard of Dreaming from the Waist crushes. Definitely an Ox showpiece on bass, even though its not "his" song.

Anything credited to the Who, or the High Numbers, is eligible

what about the first three or four albums by the jam? do those count as who albums?

OK, this one I'm going mostly straight canon. By which I mean, Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy.

yeah I doubt I'm going to be throwing up too many deep cuts high on my ballot but we'll see

the mention of Zep and the Stones reminds me of how thoroughly weird the Who are in comparison to a lot of their contemporaries. Townsend's obsession with technology and religion (synthesizers! meher baba!), the huge, left-field conceptual pieces (a pinball opera! LIFEHOUSE!), their lack of any allegiance to musical roots (Zep and the Stones were always super-conscious of their folk and blues idols, the Who had already jettisoned any traces of that by the dawn of the 70s). They're really such an oddball frankenstein of elements.

they also strike me as more neurotic than a lot of their peers, like there's this constant tension between wanting to be badasses and also wanting to be taken seriously and also just being proto-emo emotional wrecks that informs everything they do.

I've been re-listening to the first album and while it def gives a Beatles vibe, they just sound so much more, I dunno...dangerous, with the insane Moon drumbeat and the hardcore guitar. Also struck by how Daltrey's voice is really quite smooth and beautiful at times, like in a Gerry and the Pacemakers way. He could have totally pulled off Ferry Cross The Mersey, lol

yeah, the Who are freaks

my ballot might be all about The Who Sell Out and Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy

what was the first Who song you guys ever heard? Or remember hearing?

Mine was Substitute. For some reason that was the only Who song my local AM radio station ever played.

I remember My Generation and I Can See For Miles being on some comp advertised on TV (might have been Freedom Rock in the case of the latter)

I won't front--my intro was Bob Saget singing "My Generation" w/Jessie & The Rippers on that one ep of "Full House".

They appeared live on BBC2 at Charlton, I think the first song was "Young Man Blues"

But, I'm sure I knew "My Generation" from the year it came out, probably.

process question: will ballots that do not include "love ain't for keeping" be counted? Y/N

(i assume N on the basis of clearly crazy and/or trolling)

May well have been "Radio London (Days of the Week)," if that counts, off the copy of Sell Out I found in my parents' basement pile. Had no idea what to make of it, and the bathtub photo on the cover was gross.

this is insane

The album has now been re-issued in many countries and remastered several times using tapes from different sessions. The master tapes for the Olympic sessions are believed to be lost or destroyed. Video game publisher Harmonix had previously announced that Who's Next would be released as downloadable, playable content for the music video game series Rock Band. However, this never came to fruition, since it was discovered that many of the master tapes to the album were missing, as confirmed by Townshend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WeBTWEFn_M

soooooo badass

Totally; The Who were oddballs, freaks, jokers, four mismatched personalities who somehow became the greatest band ever to grace a stage. Even the debut is all over the place, glorious blues guitar on I Don't Mind, heavy duty riffage on the Ox, songs about divorce settlements and speech impediments. Then they got wilder....

However, this never came to fruition, since it was discovered that many of the master tapes to the album were missing, as confirmed by Townshend.

This is the case with "Bargain" and a couple of other songs. But the master tapes for "Won't Get Fooled Again," "Goin' Mobile," and "Behind Blue Eyes," at least, are safe and sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnVjpymrbIY

Anything credited to the Who, or the High Numbers, is eligible (including solo Pete songs on Who albums).

does this include covers?

Yep!

sweet

This is fascinating stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rto0OIAWtAI&feature=related

what was the first Who song you guys ever heard?

"Can't Explain." My dad played it for me, I think to show all the songs that stole from "Louie Louie."

Probably "I Can See for Miles"

i don't understand how anyone under the age of 60 would be able to pinpoint the first Who song they heard. they've just always been there.

Giving it a little more thought, the first Who song I heard was probably Elton John's cover of "Pinball Wizard." But my memory keeps telling me the first Who recording was "Miles."

I was trying to answer the question more in terms of, what was the first song I heard where I was aware that I was listening to a band called the Who. Which, as I said, was quite likely putting on that copy of Sell Out. I had undoubtedly heard Who songs on the car radio before that, but I would have been too young to have any idea who they were.

Couldn't post this earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtE8CUDTuk4

in that sense, "Baba" was prob the first song i consciously identified as a Who song. (xpost)

Votes for "Cobwebs and Strange" and "Heinz Baked Beans" must be counted together, otherwise this song may be deprived of its rightful position at number 1.

um, they not on the same album, or by the same writer. Also,

My sincere sympathies for the loss of your damn ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7lZS5AnAsI

Or his?

OK, that's the wrong one.

Basically, look for "Eastern Journey" by Tony Crombie, off the "Man from Interpol" TV soundtrack album.

I thought it was on Youtube, it's more likely to be on Spotify.

How does everyone think votes for "We're Not Gonna Take It" and "See Me, Feel Me" should be counted? The latter is part of the former, and is not a separate track on Tommy. But "See Me" was issued as a single, and often played in concert without the "We're Not Gonna Take It" part preceding it.

Good question. I think you have to count them as one track, really. See Me is pretty much embedded in We're Not Gonna Take It. I guess unless a voter really specifies otherwise.

Curious about thoughts on Sister Disco. I'll probably vote for it, but I wonder if it's seen here as some kind of rockist rant?

I better go back and check that. I voted for "We're Not Gonna Take It" just assuming it stood alone--if "See Me, Feel Me," which I don't particularly like, breaks it up, I'd want to change that vote.

I've received votes for both, but if there are no objections, I'm happy to separate them out.

I think the best thing they ever did was the live "My Generation" off of Leeds. That's some unbelievably heavy stuff.

re: "Sister Disco," Pete wrote/demoed it in 1976, predating both Saturday Night Fever and (iirc) the general "disco sucks!" sentiment among the rock audience. Dave Marsh has said it's not about disco music, Townshend has alternately said it is and it isn't. But once it was released in 1978, its fate was likely sealed.

I like it. I think Townshend's done better with similar subject matter, but Daltrey sells it. Somewhat dishearteningly, Entwistle plays exactly what's on Townshend's demo, as does Moon. Oddly, the version with Rabbit (keyboardist) and Kenney Jones from 1979 rehearsals (on the 30 Years of Maximum R&B Live video) sounds more "Who-like" than the studio version.

If there's enough votes for the Leeds "My Generation," I'll count it separate. It's such a different beast from the original.

xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG1HJdEuCn0

Don't know if I need to sell the virtues of this song on ILM, but it makes a strong showing on my ballot. Beautifully segued into the "Moon at the Bag of Nails" jingle as an extra on the Sellout CD

Somewhat dishearteningly, Entwistle plays exactly what's on Townshend's demo, as does Moon.

All Moon could manage at that point, I guess. The stories of the recording of that album are sad.

The funny thing is, Moon is good-to-great on the 1977 Kilburn live DVD -- WAY better than anything he does on Who Are You. I think it wasn't the physical demands of drumming as much as Moon was frustrated at not being able to come up with exciting new shit for Townshend's songs. Plus, Glyn Johns would try to force Moon out of his cliches by doing things like taking away all his cymbals, adding to the frustration, and probably not doing a lot for Moon's self-confidence.

what was the first Who song you guys ever heard?

I was a kid when "Who Are You" was released. Since I only listened to (American) top-40 radio back then, it was the first time I'd heard of The Who. I thought it was a new band who thought it was clever to name a song after their band, or vice versa.

Harmonix had previously announced that Who's Next would be released as downloadable, playable content for the music video game series Rock Band. However, this never came to fruition, since it was discovered that many of the master tapes to the album were missing

You'd be astonished how many master tapes (and sometimes even the mixdowns) for great records have gone missing over the years.

Yeah Sex Pistols Never Mind the Bollocks was missing forever - they found it when they moved from Virgin to Universal this year.

And on a related note, one I'm reminded of with the recent passing of Neil Armstrong, NASA lost the tape of the Apollo 11 moon landing. Pathetic.

Right, but that one was part of the cover-up.

The Who's version of this, recorded for Lifehouse/Who's Next, was supposed to be included on a reissue...until the multitrack master disintegrated on the reel. No safety copies/mixdowns have yet been located.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cSb1F4aZNc

does anybody else find Tommy kind of a chore to sit through...?

this oughta bum everybody out a bit eh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCqlEtNwUzw

er ffwd to around 11:30 for the Keith Moon solo album segment

does anybody else find Tommy kind of a chore to sit through...?

Parts of it, yeah. Mainly "Underture" and "Welcome."

I do appreciate how conflicted/confused Tommy's narrative arc is - at first he's a victim, then he's like THE COOLEST DUDE EVER, then he's some sort of corporate puppet messiah, and then it turns out his "enlightenment" is a bunch of bullshit and he's really just a fucked up narcissist. or at least that was my interpretation after re-watching the movie version a few days ago

but the album itself feels really aimless in places, just this jumble of musical themes repeated/rearranged in various combinations for over an hour

The Underture is the best part!

on the other hand I find Sally Simpson a bore

I'll say this for the Underture: when it was played for Elvin Jones in a blindfold test he said, "The man is a drummer. Everything he plays, he contains it."

Underture is pretty awesome.

does anyone care for squeeze box? def. the only Who song i can think of that i hate

it's used to great effect in Freaks and Geeks so I give it a pass

Question to those who haven't ventured past Quadrophenia: what about Odds & Sods? Highly recommended, as it's weighted towards the pre-Tommy years. Also, the 1998 reissue has this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Z0sT8PP78
Only Who song written by Pete, but sung by John.

"Squeeze Box" is pretty goofy but i think it just sticks out like a sore thumb because it was one of their biggest pop hits at the peak of their stadium rock period, if it was one of the silly trifles buried on a '60s album nobody would hate it.

Also a pretty silly trifle that appeared on the album known as Townshend's "suicide note". Which makes it kind of jarring.

A Quick One: Smutty joke inflated into mini-opera. One of the most influential songs of the 60s.
Squeeze Box: Smutty joke set to countryish lilt. Save it for the rugby club.

'tommy' has plenty of gorgeous moments but the material as a whole feels really drawn-out and underwritten. i actually kind of like the dreamy overture/underture stuff more than the 'character' songs ('sally simpson,' 'the acid queen,' 'cousin kevin') which all strike me as really labored.

i do like the kind of hushed atmosphere of the original album -- 'tommy' is so universally associated with their revved-up live versions of the songs, broadway revivals, the ken russell movie, etc., that it's easy to forget that it's probably their quietest album!

yeah drawn-out and underwritten is a good description. there's so many instances of repeated chord changes/melodic themes just being slapped together one after the other

i actually think Tommy gets better and better every time i hear it. i always think it's going to last forever if I put it on, only to find that it's just wonderful throughout and definitely has the best Moon action of any album. wonderfuly production too.

feel free to edit that last sentence in your brain so it makes sense.

it's a ROCK OPERA, having recurring motifs and little dips in the action seems like part of the design. like it or not, you have to almost deliberately misunderstand the nature of the album to call it "underwritten" just because it's not one self-contained pop song after another. (xpost)

I know its part of the design I just don't think it works all the way through

methinks the slow repetitive bits just amplify the amazing standout bits.

My first exposure to Tommy was the film, and I heard the soundtrack album months before hearing the Who's version. I was struck by how spare most of the arrangements were; being used to the bombast of the soundtrack, hearing long solo-acoustic interludes was downright shocking (Townshend has said these were Mingus-influenced). The fact that the motifs reoccur never struck me as filler, or that they were stuck for ideas (even if one of those motifs previously appeared, note-for-note, in "Rael"). It all made sense in context. I mean, "Christmas" would still be great without the "See Me, Feel Me" bit; but that part reinforces the narrative.

unrelated: how is it I have never even heard/heard of this Thunderclap Newman album before

Going back to the first Who song I heard, "Tommy" was issued the day after I was born, and my dad bought it the same day I was brought home from the hospital, so it is highly likely that "Tommy" was the first music I ever heard. This is probably why I have such strange feelings of familarity when I listen to the album.

my dads copy of Tommy is one of those ones built for multi disc turntables, but it wasn't very well labeled, which meant for years I was listening to sides A and D first, then B and C, which made the story even more confusing than it already is.

I've told this story before, but one of my best friends was a huge Who-hater — "you couldn't possibly make shit smell worse" was his line about them. It drove him nuts that bands that he loved (Sex Pistols and Ramones) did Who covers. We went to see Richard Thompson in Birmingham — he covered "Substitute" too and my friend was a 'grrrrrgoddammit!" Then we went to see Polvo one night and they played "Sparks"...it went over so well that they played "Sparks" again later in the same set! As we were leaving my friend said "ok I give up, I'm not saying another word about the fucking Who."

<3 this band. I can't really take their albums as wholes anymore except for Sell Out, which is a BEAST (seriously; I had to review things while picking 20 songs but I could sing Sell Out almost entirely from memory). Tommy as an album is pretty unlistenable and I'm surprised there are so many people who can tolerate it.

Tommy is a great teenage kid album, and probably doesn't need to be anything more. It's catchy as hell, seems profound at a certain age, etc. etc. I played the hell out of it when I was a teen, really don't want to hear it now, and that's just fine. Precursor to The Wall maybe? They kind of fill similar niches.

I think Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere, especially in early live versions would be my current pick for their best song, and everything else kind of follows from that. So Who as proto-Sonic Youth I guess...

I can't find the exact quote (I think it's in Victor Bockris' Up-Tight), but John Cale talked about coming back from Wales in 1966 with a bunch of singles, among them "Anyway Anyhow Anywhere" and the Small Faces' "Whatcha Gonna Do About It." He said to Lou Reed, "We've gotta put out a record soon, look at the jump these bands have on us!"

I don't know if VU ever actually caught up :) Anyway, I just played "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere" back to back with SY's "She's In A Bad Mood" just to make sure I'm remembering right, and yeah, I'm remembering right. You could really get from the former to the latter while skipping about twenty years of musical developments...

It always bugged me that the Who seem to be written out of that history. I once played "AAA" for a friend who was a huge VU fan. He initially refused to believe it was the Who. He had no idea they ever did anything remotely like that.

more excited about voting in this than in the november elections

^^^ otm

There isn't a chance in hell it'll make it, so let me throw a little respect toward "Free Me" from Daltrey's McVicar soundtrack, which I believe is Daltrey/Townshend/Entwistle/Jones + horns. Screaming awesome rawkness.

I'm not 100% sure that's Townshend on "Free Me" (he's on other songs on the soundtrack), but it's definitely Entwistle and Jones. Not eligible for the poll, though, since it was released as a Daltrey record and not a Who record. Great song, though.

On the subject of solo Daltrey, this deserves a listen or ten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG_q_qUqupw
His whole first solo record is great, really gives you a different perspective on his vocal approach.

I was curious as to whether Quadrophenia was available on DVD, and it came out exactly two days ago on Criterion.

http://cdn.hometheaterforum.com/c/c3/539x700px-LL-c3579e4b_quadfront.jpeg

Excellent film, needless to say.

Seven ballots so far! Are there more at the door?

my ballot probably won't change much over the next week but i'm probably gonna wait til near the deadline just to have an excuse to listen to lots and lots of Who music

I like the way you think. The only thing better than the Who is more Who.

I should have mine in over the weekend

Will probably send mine on the 6th.

I'm not 100% sure that's Townshend on "Free Me" (he's on other songs on the soundtrack), but it's definitely Entwistle and Jones. Not eligible for the poll, though, since it was released as a Daltrey record and not a Who record. Great song, though.

― Choogle Image Search (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

http://s.dsimg.com/image/R-1365138-1213192183.jpeg

Of course they played up the presence of Pete/John/Kenney when the album came out (which undoubtedly helped it get a lot of airtime on New York's WNEW-FM), but I've never been able to find out who played on what. The back cover just lists the musicians:

Drums – Kenney Jones, Stuart Elliot, Dave Mattacks
Bass – John Entwistle, Herbie Flowers, Dave Markee
Guitar – Ricky Hitchcock, Billy Nicholls, Pete Townshend
Slide, Electric & Acoustic Guitar – Jo Partridge
Keyboards – John 'Rabbit' Bundrick
Synthesizer/Keyboards – Ken Freeman
Percussion – Frank Ricotti, Tony Carr
Flute – Ron Aspery
Producer, Arranged By, Conductor – Jeff Wayne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOdLEF7xXmI

"'tommy' has plenty of gorgeous moments but the material as a whole feels really drawn-out and underwritten."

I think some of the tracks like Sparks and others that sound huge live on Live at Leeds and other period live recordings just don't have that sound on Tommy

They had some other great tracks from the 69-70 period like Naked Eye, Pure and Easy or Heaven and Hell which were great songs, but they just didn't quite capture the song well in the studio, so the tunes never really became as well known like say the tracks on Who's Next.

Naked Eye is pretty spectacular.

That it is. Their first post-Tommy release was supposed to be an EP, recorded at Pete's garage/home studio, with "Postcard," "Now I'm A Farmer," "Water," "Naked Eye," and "I Don't Even Know Myself." The proposed title was 7 Foot Wide Car, 6 Foot Wide Garage. The material wouldn't fit on a 7", so it was scrapped, but the latter three songs were played live throughout 1970.

4 out of 5 tracks on the CD:

http://991.com/NewGallery/The-Who-Odds--Sods---Seal-476893.jpg

The Who definitely had combustible part to their sound that seemed to peak when in front of a crowd, at least at their live peak. The studio version of Naked Eye just doesn't take off like the live version. I have to wonder if that is part of the reason Townshend wanted to incorporate the captured audience on the original Lifehouse idea, as that feedback from the crowd seemed to bring that other gear out of the band.

There is definitely a potentially very good lost Who LP in those tunes from that came between Tommy and the remains that did not make it on to Who's Next, especially if you add in the single only "The Seeker".

never listened to Odds and Sods before. surprisingly great!

Weirdly, it's a perfect introduction to the Who, even without any hits.

why isn't the Seeker on here? god this discography is almost as bad as the Kinks

It's on the 1971 comp Meaty, Beaty, Big And Bouncy, which was all singles (give or take a "Boris"). O&S, in its original incarnation (1974), was all previously-unreleased material (except for "I'm The Face," which was impossible to find anyway). The 1998 reissue doubles the original's length.

And yeah, the Who's discography is a mess. Some titles are remixed, some aren't, some reissues have bonus tracks that aren't included on subsequent reissues of the same title, the 2001 Deluxe Live At Leeds has some overdubbed vocals and shitty mastering...it's all a rich tapestry.

"The Seeker" was on Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy which was a real early and real good singles compilation from 1971.

x-post

some reissues have bonus tracks that aren't included on subsequent reissues of the same title

Yeah the deluxe version of Sell Out misses off 'Glow Girl' and 'Melancholia', those are the two best extra tracks!

True story: I've seen Roger Daltrey solo live, and I've seen Pete Townshend solo live (he signed by "Quadrophenia" sleeve!), but I've never seen the Who live. I may be the only one.

Was talking with someone else the other day about the Who's odd output, about how such a massive band with so many massive songs put out so few records. Was this group just always on the road in the '70s? So was Zeppelin, but Zeppelin churned out the product. It's a bit of a mystery. Maybe because a band like Zeppelin didn't have any weight of the world sorts like Townshend amongst their ranks.

I've seen them 3 times -- the best was 1999 at the Bridge School Benefit. Ox did Boris the Spider, and all the Bridge School kids up on stage were laughing and just so freaking delighted by that song...that was a really fun show.

I saw the later version of the Who twice, once in old Busch stadium in St. Louis in 1989 and then on that Quadrophenia tour in the late 90s. I was pretty excited about seeing them that first time, but to be honest, it was kind of like "The Who on Ice" with this huge band and Townshend playing acousting in some plexiglass cube.

The second time with Zak Starkey playing drums and Townshend back on electric with his brother playing a second guitar was really pretty good. Starkey is a heck of a drummer and they actually interacted while playing. The version of "The Real Me" had this crazy ass bass solo part that Entwhistle just took off like a freakin' rocket. Kind of a shame Townshend lost the fire and they pretty much faded away, cause Entwhistle really never lost it as a player and really the only band he could play like that and have it work was The Who.

I can't imagine a bassist such as Entwhistle that could cut a mountain like that playing in Ringo's all star band. Kind of curious if he really ever cut loose in that band live, which toured for a few years.

70s output:

The Who: 4 studio albums, 1 live album, 3 comps (1 UK-only)
Led Zeppelin: 6 studio albums, 1 live album, zero comps

Not that different

one of those Zep albums is a double (as is the live album)

random thing - anyone who hasn't seen it, check out VH1's Classic Albums episode of Who's Next. It's flippin' great.

Quadrophenia's a double as well, plus add the Kids Are Alright soundtrack (a double) for 2 live albums. The two bands' outputs are not enormously different in quantity.

in the 70s

Also, the Who put out non-LP singles in the early 70s, something Zeppelin would have never considered doing: "Relay," "Join Together," and "Let's See Action," all with non-LP b-sides.

The Who toured relentlessly in 1970 (almost the whole year), only slightly less so in 1971, and did short tours in '72, '73 and '74. But they toured a lot in '75 and '76, mainly because so much of their money was missing/tied up due to litigation with their former managers. Some of the '76 shows are as amazing as their '70-'71 shows.

Also, there are at least ten Who 70s solo albums.

who could forget Ride a Rock Horse

ENTWISTLE!

Speaking of "the Who's odd output," was there any band of comparable stature who was willing to release completely goofball stuff like "Dogs," "Now I'm a Farmer," even "Magic Bus"? You expected humor from Entwistle songs, or when they threw Moon a bone ("Waspman," "Cobwebs & Strange"), but even Townshend would go happily bonkers from time to time.

I think that sense of humor is one of the cool parts of their music.

There's some parallel universe out there where Empty Glass was The Who album and Face Dances was the Townshend solo one.

Probably the same parallel universe where the other members of the Who made better choices as to which songs should go on their records:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDTVgq62-m4
That's Entwistle and Moon overdubbing a Townshend demo (a fairly regular occurrence with them, as it turns out). The rest of the band pejoratively referred to this song as "Choir Boy," and elected it not be included on Who Are You.
(this is eligible for the poll, btw)

Ha! I had just listened to "Choir Boy" before posting that...

Speaking of "the Who's odd output," was there any band of comparable stature who was willing to release completely goofball stuff like "Dogs," "Now I'm a Farmer," even "Magic Bus"?

Beach Boys surely - there's even some comedy bits on their early albums, plus send-ups of their own songs, a mock-party LP, the general way-out-thereness of the Smile sessions, the offbeat codas throughout 20/20, and more. The Yardbirds had alot of funkyness buried in the dark corners of their albums too - Gregorian chants, country hoedowns, campfire singalongs, weird pop covers like "Ha Ha Said the Clown" or "Ten Little Indians" that no blues-rock band should have gone near.

the Beatles' type of whimsy was different from the Who's but it should go without saying that they apply here

The irony of the Yardbirds' whimsy is that much of it was during the Page era, and none of it transferred over into Led Zeppelin. "The Crunge" is all I can come up with for a Zeppelin track that might be classified as "goofball" (and even then, it was more tribute than send-up).

Maybe "Hot Dog"...., but, yeah.

Pagey wasn't in the producer's chair for the Yardbirds, and their sometimes worked in their advantage, as they were forced to retain whimsical one-take-and-done numbers like "Stealing, Stealing" and "Smile on Me" that never would have survived Page's perfectionist production leanings.

and their that sometimes

Happy Labor Day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP4yP3-I8Tk

Pagey wasn't in the producer's chair for the Yardbirds, and their sometimes worked in their advantage, as they were forced to retain whimsical one-take-and-done numbers like "Stealing, Stealing" and "Smile on Me" that never would have survived Page's perfectionist production leanings.

I always attributed that odd era of the Yardbirds to producer Mickie Most who was brought in when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" flopped and they needed a pop hit fast. The Yardbirds bio gets into the details, but it's the stereotype story about the producer trying to get a 3 minute pop song from a band that doesn't want to do it. Relf is the only Yardbird on "Ha Ha Said The Clown."

Most's business partner was Peter Grant, and we all know what happened next.

The Yardbirds management move in hindsight would have been to get them the biggest amps on the planet and told them to go out live and try to outdo The Experience and Cream. It seems in that period around the time Beck got kicked out of the group until LZ, they were kind of late on that move. That's eventually what Grant and Page did and so did Deep Purple and others. The Who were already an explosive mix of whimsy and power, so they didn't really have to change.

The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again: just the bass

Ten ballots so far! Let's beat Zeppelin! We only need 42 more ballots!

I will vote, still mulling placement of stuff I've only heard in the last couple weeks

yeah am still grinding gears. soon!

One of my favorite Entwistle songs and the only one to make my ballot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkwa0NELL1Y

That's a great one, especially live; even the '82 versions are scorching.

this is tough, especially when it comes to the big/conceptual albums - for ex. I consider Sell Out the best thing they ever did, but pulling individual tracks from it seems so wrong. Tommy's highlights are a little easier to discern. Feel similarly about Who's Next even tho it's much less of a concept album than those others, I like the whole more than the parts (with one glaringly obvious exception)

yeah, i feel similarly. only one track on who's next i don't think i'd vote for and one is my no. 1, but as a whole i enjoy letting it just wash over me in its entirety. as for sell out it just doesn't seem fair to pull tracks from it but i'll figure out a few to give token votes to i guess

man i am enjoying having an excuse to listen to The Who all day

My own favorite Entwistle track. I've met a few others who adore this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yctom0SrAzM

Working on my ballot tonight...figured out some text-to-table/table-to-text workarounds to get a straight alphabetical list of songs with no other crap.

man Quadrophenia is really not a good album is it

Whut

I was just thinking the opposite!

i think the songs aren't really there w/ quadrophrenia but i love the sound and production, i'm not sure they ever sounded better. it managed two on my ballot, more than tommy as many as who's next.

I discovered Quadrophenia same time the film came out and I loved it--one of my favourite albums for the next year or so. (The Kids Are Alright came out almost simultaneously.) The two or three songs I still hear on the radio today have lost a lot. Haven't gone back to the rest of the album in ages.

The recent documentary is a fascinating look into how/why it came about (and the ending is heartbreaking):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdUPDyFXFkk

i think the songs aren't really there w/ quadrophrenia but i love the sound and production, i'm not sure they ever sounded better. it managed two on my ballot, more than tommy as many as who's next.

Funny, the one stumbling block for me with Quad is the production. The drums don't crack and pop like on Who's Next (and in fact, they do on "Is It In My Head" and "Love, Reign O'er Me," both recorded by Glyn Johns), and there's not much breathing room between the instruments.

Townshend's demos are fairly revelatory; as expected, all of his demo synth tracks are on the finished album intact, but so are things like backing vocals and even a drum roll here and there.

This should get some love. It's a 1973 Quad outtake (so, Moonie on drums), but was one of the three "new" songs on the 1979 soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exm56pNXXUw

Just listening to the demo of Bellboy (always fascinated by that song and Alice Cooper's "Reflected" and "Elected") and struck by what a big deal the voiceovers and the vocal performance are. Townsend doesn't sound manly/working class enough to pull it off. He sounds like an art history major who's working at a hotel to subsidize his indie band that's getting a buzz in Bushwick. Good thing he found someone else to sing it! Still working on tracks, but in general it seems to be Sell Out>My Generation>Quadrophenia and then after that it's kind of random.

i'm pretty interested to see how the albums sub-poll shakes out.

Sorting out my five least-favorite tracks reminded me that there's a lot of Who songs I really don't like. Mostly big muscular stuff, I guess.

least favs is tough for me because there are songs that i've never really cottoned to but kind of know they're good, like "Behind Blue Eyes"

Least favourites would have been really hard had I not decided to sit through the Who Are You album on Spotify a few months back...

lol yeah i love the title track so i'm always dismayed by how bad some of the other songs are

Sorry for being so slow, but I think I can put a finger on it:

"Tommy" is a rock opera
"Quadrophenia" is a concept album.

Hammered out a rough ballot this morning (after getting up at 4, wtf). Will ponder it throughout the day and send it tonight. Thanks to tipsy for the reminder to do albums and least-faves.

lol yeah i love the title track so i'm always dismayed by how bad some of the other songs are

Title track towers above the rest, but I dig "New Song" for how its cynicism contradicts/undercuts its arena-rock cheerleading sound. "905" is Entwistle at his most vulnerable-sounding, and the synth is a nice callback to "Relay." "Music Must Change" is awful, "Guitar And Pen" is the uncanny valley between prog and show tunes, and "Love Is Coming Down" is fucking beautiful (but didn't make my ballot).

Also, the album woulda been helped tremendously by the inclusion of "Empty Glass" and "No Road Romance." They also recorded "Keep On Working" during these sessions, but the full-band version has yet to surface.

man Quadrophenia is really not a good album is it

― chicago rap twitter luminary (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:45 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you gotta be shitting me. it rules

I like the movie honestly but the album seems very meandering - as mentioned, the tunes just aren't there. I did put "I'm One" on my ballot cuz that song kills, the opening lines alone are so great. and also there was this, which I will always associate it with now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmCpmEQD0L4

great scene

okay. today my ballot happens. I SWEAR

Take your time :) -- still over a day left to go. And I may keep the polls open later, depending on voter turnout.

I'm just mad at myself bc I've been SO excited for this poll

STOP SWEARING AND START WINDMILLING

I was just listening to 'Can't Explain' and was reminded of something Daltrey said in the VH1 Classic Albums doc, that one of the things that made Moony unique in his eyes was that he played the vocal parts on a lot of his songs. I always loved how the drums were so crazy in the Can't Explain chorus and it dawned on me that THAT's why they sound that way. He plays right along with Roger. Eh, I dunno maybe that's a thing that everyone is like WELL DUH WE KNEW THAT but I got a kick out of it

oh shit I forgot to vote for Can't Explain

oh dude no

unpossible

I love it so much...saying I love you without being flowery. "I can't actually tell you how I'm feeling but you have this physical effect on me so.."

He plays right along with Roger. Eh, I dunno maybe that's a thing that everyone is like WELL DUH WE KNEW THAT but I got a kick out of it

I love that sequence in the Classic Albums thingy, and it floored me.

I know right? I always loved Moony but that suddenly there was logic to the madness made him all the more brilliant

Forgot how much I love this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui-S2CTzcRo

yeah i've always looked up to guys like Moon and Bill Ward because they make me feel less inhibited about wanting to play more than just the beat when i'm at the drums

yeah Ward is awesome

The way I've always thought of Moon's drumming is that he plays like the lead instrument -- he follows or plays counterpoint to the vocal lines and melodies the way a lead guitarist does. Which is a pretty crazy way to play drums, at least in rock (more common in jazz obviously).

imo The Who is the only band who you could pretty fairly rank all its members as one of the top 10 best in rock history at what they do (at least if you were ranking Pete as a songwriter rather than guitarist or singer)

totally

tipsy otm.

(at least if you were ranking Pete as a songwriter rather than guitarist or singer)

I would easily rank Townshend among the top 4 or 5 guitarists, as his innovations were similar in spirit to Moon's. Daltrey said something about how an electric guitar is part microphone, part guitar, and how Clapton only played the guitar part, whereas Townshend exploited the shit out of the microphone aspect. Whole areas of musicmaking were spawned by the solo on "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere."

And just to mess with everyone's heads, his present-day single-string lead playing is now streets ahead of any of his contemporaries.

imo The Who is the only band

dude Zeppelin. Sabbath too maybe

this poll has reminded me how much I love Tommy

ballot sent btw

I'd say his combination lead/rhythm strategies put him in the top 10 in rock guitarists for sure.

I am loving the Peel Sessions stuff right now

a good one from those:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0uuk0b9mF4

Ballot sent. Hoping for a big turnout!

18 ballots so far!

Just sent mine in.

Mine's in!

We've broken the 20 ballot mark!

Here another one worthy of consideration, a Sell Out-era song not recorded until 1979 (with Kenney Jones):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvo6LlpUPdg

Also, mark your calendars: Pete's going to be on The Daily Show October 8.

People, get those votes in. And for the love of God, listen to the Mike Post Theme.

YES, definitely voting for that

How do i send a ballot?

Info in the opening post.

Take one (1) homing pigeon...

just saw the email address, thanks.

This is really freakin' hard. I've got 20, but that is missing a bunch of what I'd assume were locks for my list. They really were that good.

Tell me about it. Everything below my top 3 could easily change from week to week.

On the other hand, three of my bottom five are from one album. That was depressingly easy.

I'm trying not to think about my ballot now that it's in -- temptation to feel extreme remorse is overwhelming, lol

Would people object to me combining votes in the album poll for My Generation and The Who Sing My Generation? There are differences between the two, and I didn't want fans of "I'm A Man" (on the former) or "Instant Party (Circles)" (on the latter) to feel shortchanged.

done and done

seems reasonable

yeah no problem here

Ballot sent. I forgot "Dogs".

^^I didn't ("I saw him race at White City just last week...nice form...great buttocks...")

sent my ballot. i spent most of my available listening time this week exploring the Who catalog but still feel like i didn't check out remotely as much as i should've and stuck mostly to singles and the albums i already knew. excited to see the results, though.

I wish I made more time for this.:( Was pretty focused on the 80s rock poll.

Yeah I wanted to listen to more albums I hadn't heard but I had so much fun revisiting the Peel Sessions and Live at Leeds and Who's Next that I fear I failed our boys, somehow.

Sent!

found these, thought they were worth sharing

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9byh5HdFS1r0xrjyo1_500.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9byh5HdFS1r0xrjyo2_500.png

The Who should get bonus points for having 4 equally crushworthy dudes. There's no Ringo/pity-vote sadsack situations.

Keith was 18. He lied about his age his entire professional life. It wasn't until Tony Fletcher's 1999 bio that it came out he was a year older.

Also, 26 ballots! Can we get to 30?

xpost Wonder why - I mean it's only a year!

voted

xp It's weird, right? I think it's the only time Keith Moon ever thought, "Eh, one's enough."

Lol!

sent my ballot, in the nick of time

....mostly canonical stuff since I had almost no time to listen through rarities due to, amongst other things, an ear infection I just got treated yesterday that made it hard to listen to anything.

I'll keep the polls open until tomorrow morning (US Eastern Time), just in case there's any stragglers.

For the results thread, I'm thinking of starting the roll-out Saturday afternoon, but I'm happy to wait until Monday morning for those who primarily peruse ILX while procrastinating at work. Thoughts?

LOL @ "There was nothing in my life bigger than beer"

Haven't heard "Dogs" in a million years. Love it. That's my favorite era of the Who, so most of my list is gonna be mid-to-late 60's novelty songs that sound like thunder.

"Tattoo" might end up number one. Not sure. Looking at this list of 20 so far, it's sort of a 20-way tie.

Btw, this is just silly and fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HlMIhR6ckQ

"Tattoo" might end up number one. Not sure. Looking at this list of 20 so far, it's sort of a 20-way tie.

Ha, listening to the Charlton '74 recording right now! As much as the Who get maligned for being stadium behemoth dinosaurs, none of their peers ever dared play anything this delicate/nuanced/funny in a stadium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jK4K-v5t4g

Extension appreciated, ballot sent. Cheers to Dogs and Mike Post soapboxers, both were fun to debut, and one actually made my ballot.

Ha, listening to the Charlton '74 recording right now! As much as the Who get maligned for being stadium behemoth dinosaurs, none of their peers ever dared play anything this delicate/nuanced/funny in a stadium

At the LA Coliseum show in 1982 (my first big stadium show... The Clash opened!), they played "Sunrise" and I fell out of my tree.

This is cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSWFeqb3EfU

There's a nice recent one of him playing I Can't REach You at home, somewhere on youtube. Will try to dig it out later

For the results thread, I'm thinking of starting the roll-out Saturday afternoon, but I'm happy to wait until Monday morning for those who primarily peruse ILX while procrastinating at work. Thoughts?

― Sunn? Sunn? It's your cousin, Marvin O))) (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, September 8, 2012 12:48 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark

i think it'd be great if you at least ran something over the weekend -- maybe the results of the albums/least favorite tracks polls and/or a little bit of the main poll results. how many songs are going to be in the rundown?

Some weekend results would be tasty. I hope Adam B sent his ballot in time.

There's 120 songs, so I'll count down the top 50. I'll start with the worst and albums today, and the bottom 10 tomorrow.

sweet!

Yeah got mine in last night at 1am, thanks for the extension!

wahoo!

*drinks a quart of brandy to get ready for the gig*

I listened to "Dogs" 5 times this morning already. What an awesome throw-away song.

So...just to make sure I'm doing this correctly, instead of using a different scale for the album points, I used the same scale as the track points, but only using positions 1-5 (e.g., 1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28). Since I'm beyond hopeless in math, can someone please confirm that this will result in an accurate tally?

As long as the #1s get more points than the #2s et cetera, should be fine. I used 10-7-5-3-1, but those were just numbers out of hat that I didn't want to be too big because I did albums and least-faves by hand instead of spreadsheet. It seemed to me that the more space there is between the point values, the less likely it would be for ties to happen, but I don't know if there's any statistical reason for that to be true.

For me, it works even better for albums, although that would vary from person to person. It's hard to weight these things, but I'm pretty sure the distance between my favourite and fifth-favourite songs would be much smaller than between my favourite and fifth-favourite albums; 40/28 would come closer to working for albums than for songs.

yeah i think it might be good to have more than 2-4 points' difference between each spot on the list but in general it should be fine whichever way you do it (xpost)

Cool. Yeah, the point totals make sense, just wasn't sure if there was something I was missing. I will start soon with the 10 least-liked tunes...

There will be blood.

I think this is a POLL of shit while John Sinclair rots in prison: THE WHO RESULTS THREAD (ilm artist poll #25)