ILXers Get Out Your Polls And I'll Put On Some Joni Mitchell Voting and Nominations #26 (Voting Deadline: September 28)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8438/7976705239_78dc04edf1_o.jpg

Oh you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you fine.

Pick your twenty favorites tracks.

1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28, 6:26, 7:25, 8:24, 9:23, 10:22, 11:21, 12:20, 13:19, 14:18, 15:17, 16:16, 17:15, 18:14, 19:13, 20:12

You can nominate in this thread and post youtube links for fave tracks.

You're voting for any track that Joni appears on which could include stuff like Carol King's "Will You Love Me Tomorrow," where she sings backing vocals w/ James Taylor, or her performance of "Helpless" w/ Neil Young in The Last Waltz.

You can vote for live tracks, even if they haven't gotten an official release (there is a large Joni bootleg scene), but I'll likely combine them w/ studio versions and note in the results that there are different versions.

BONUS POLL:

List your five favorite Joni albums.

Discography and track listing can be perused here: http://jonimitchell.com/music/

Submit your ballots to jonimitchellpoll AT gmail DOT com.

Whahey!

But I think Mojo short-circuited your hotlinked image. If you rehost it and post the link I will fix it in the OP.

It looks okay to me -- but here it is on flickr:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8438/7976705239_78dc04edf1_o.jpg

I have images off and when I click on it I get a Mojo logo. If it shows OK for everyone else then no worries.

I'm seeing a Mojo logo too (up top, not xp).

Been waiting for this poll! Woo-hoo!

Changed the OP image to the flickr link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkgGsjQ-e1E

What's the deadline?

I'm completely ignorant of the post-Mingus albums. Hoping to discover a few great things from the 80s from this poll.

oooohhhh second one of these I'm gonna participate in. yeah when is the deadline? not gonna have time this week

Oh yeah. Forgot the deadline. Um. How long are ppl generally giving for these? 2 weeks? 3?

give 2, or til the end of next week or something

Sounds good to me.

10 days, lately

Good work Mordy. I was going to sit out the next few polls, but I think I might have a bash at this one, I really loved Blue once.

ITT I will shamelessly, repeatedly foist Night Ride Home on you all until you vote for it and half its songs.

was eager to vote in this poll way back when, but having listened to all my Joni Mitchell albums just a little while ago I confess I pretty much hate everything that I own post-Hissing Lawns (ie, Hejira, Mingus, Wild Things Run Fast, Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm). the sonic template she adopted just makes my ears bleed.

aw yeah! i was actually wondering the other day if there was a joni poll lined up

I'm an early Joni fanatic, and that'll probably make up the majority of my ballot. I think the split between Joni post-folk jazz fans and pre-1975 fans will be interesting. Also, will anyone stan for the really recent (like post 2000) compositions? I have an idea about how to incorporate her artwork into the poll too...

dude how can you hate hejira.

I don't hate any of it! But for me 68-74 > 75-79 > 82-88 > 91-07

dude how can you hate hejira.

fretless bass + synth washes = total hell

I hate both of those things, and I love Hejira (but they're also the reason I hate Mingus).

no synth washes on Hejira, Shakey!

I listened to all five of those post-hejira records in a row, it all sort of mushified together for me at a certain point

er four

I've tried to like Night Ride Home as much as aero and Tim, and while it's the best of her post-peak period -- the billowy synths complement the dark blues and violets of her voice -- the songwriting is maddeningly uneven.

Are you okay with 10 songs? Yet another artist where I can name 10 I already love, but to get to 20 I'd have to start relistening. And I'm lazy. And old. And not crazy about voting for 10 extra songs I'd never given a thought to until this week.

oh yeah, absolutely. 10 is fine.

So I kicked off with Blue tonight. It's not as pleasant a listen as I was anticipating tbh - she's really pretty complex at that point melodically and harmonically, seems like I was more in the mood for something to holler along with. Lord knows how I'll cope when I get to the avantjazz stuff youse've been discussing already.

I often forget that Blue was my first exposure to her and for many her best; when it's on I agree.

I am heartily tired of the "autobiographical" angle though.

Can anyone recommend any standout tracks from the post "Mingus" era? I can't face listening to several entire albums of session-dude jazz-inflected songcraft to get to the nuggets, quite frankly.

I think of the eras of Joni as:
1968-1970: the folkie years, some good songs but still developing.
1971-1976: the peak years, run of 5 amazingly great studio albums
1977-1979: the overstretching years, Don Juan and Mingus are good, but less compelling than what came before.
1980 onwards: I've barely heard any of this stuff, apart from Wild Things Run Fast, which is good but slight, and the material on Misses. I've heard elsewhere that Night Ride Home is good though.

Pick for overlooked song - Love or Money from Miles of Aisles (1974 live album): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfplwJaBN1E

From 'Night Ride Home', check "Passion Play", "Cherokee Louise", "Slouching Towards Bethlehem", "Come In From The Cold", "Nothing Can Be Done" and "Two Grey Rooms".

'Turbulent Indigo' is basically a lesser version of the same album (though ironically won more acclaim), but it's worth checking "Sunny Sunday" and "The Sire of Sorrow", from memory.

yeah i imagine the vast majority of my ballot is gonna be from the 71-76 period

At least three tracks from 1969 alone are sure things for my ballot

Came to vote, stayed a couple minutes to rep for Shine (2007 album). For having not written a song for a decade prior, Joni actually has something interesting to say without blowing up in a storm of bad 80s synths about it. Not a classic, but definitely a great latter-day album from a 60s/70s genius.

I love "Come in from the Cold"

This bit:

Is it just vulgar electricity?
Is it the edifying fire?
Does your smile's covert complicity
Debase as it admires?

The cracks forming in her voice by this point give the song a simultaneous fragility and gravity which allows her to carry off lines like that.

i want to make A CASE for YOU to vote for "Urge for Going" which afaik is not on any of the LPs except for the Hits collection but is gorgeous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMhNTFzmRw0&feature=related

I love "Come in from the Cold"

― Mordy, Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:28 PM

yes. This is the best example of what she achieved in her later years: the parched vocal does wonders with vowels and punctuates those synth billows with devastating effect.

btw I will defend Dog Eat Dog, particularly the title track, "Impossible Dreamers," and "Good Friends." The last song is a misbegotten attempt (Michael McDonald!) to assume that the late seventies studio rock comity still existed in 1985 (it was also her last Hot 100 appearance in America). I posted the video upthread.

Tom Rush does a really nice "Urge for Going" on the same album he does "The Circle Game." That's the first time I've heard Joni's original, I have to admit.

top ten should basically be Court & Spark tracks 1-10, with Twisted thrown in a bin somewhere

yeah that's gotta be one of the all time worst album closers. Doesn't fit the album at all

it's like someone at the record company was trying to sabotage the album. it's SO BAD.

Was Joni a big influence on Robert Plant by any chance? I'm hearing all sorts of his phrasing and melodic tricks on things like 'Free Man In Paris'.

Not sure why I'm assuming the influence goes that way, actually, except that he didn't start off singing like that, and a vague feeling that 'Going To California' might be a homage to her.

I apologize in advance but I'm going to totally gum up this poll with endless 80s-00s Joni stanning

OK no I won't I'll just submit that ballot but I encourage all serious voters to listen to latter day material
My #1 is from "Night Ride Home"

Have you voted for anything from Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm or Taming of the Tiger?

Definitely "The Tea Leaf Prophecy". Probably another? Taming the Tiger probably not? Maybe nothing from Turbulent Indigo either, but Both Sides Now and Travelogue yes yes yes.

I surprise myself in these polls in how little I care for Widely Celebrated Breakthrough album and am much more interested in later, more mature work-- not mature in that "it's serious" but that I take an enormous delight in hearing musicians' physical and compositional voices change over time and will almost always rank an "Outside" over a "Ziggy" or an "Aerial" over a "The Hounds of Love"

Also +1 on "Urge for going", great song Mordy. When I got the "Hits" CD it was like what is THIS song?!!!

Also, weirdly ignored by all compilations, concerts, etc. is goddamn "Conversation" from Ladies of the Canyon which is my favourite song of those first four records

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II7PQMCWZwE

Was Joni a big influence on Robert Plant by any chance? I'm hearing all sorts of his phrasing and melodic tricks on things like 'Free Man In Paris'.

Not sure why I'm assuming the influence goes that way, actually, except that he didn't start off singing like that, and a vague feeling that 'Going To California' might be a homage to her.

― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:46 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Definitely yes. I've read in a number of places that Robert Plant was strongly influenced by Joni Mitchell. This is from Joni Mitchell's wiki page:

Led Zeppelin's "Going to California" was said to be written about Robert Plant and Jimmy Page's infatuation with Mitchell, a claim that seems to be borne out by the fact that, in live performances, Plant often says "Joni" after the line "To find a queen without a king, they say she plays guitar and cries and sings." Jimmy Page uses a double dropped D guitar tuning similar to the alternative tunings Mitchell uses.

Page and especially Plant were WAY into the Cali folk/Laurel Canyon scene

Court & Spark tracks 1-10, with Twisted thrown in a bin somewhere

yeah that's gotta be one of the all time worst album closers

Oof. What an awful track. I honestly can't think of a worse finale, anywhere. Has it ever inspired a 'worst closer' thread? That'd be its one redeeming feature, if it had.

I don't mind Twisted! It's like a song-and-dance routine at the end of an intense drama, sending everyone home with a spring in their step and humming a catchy tune.

Shine is pretty nice. It fits right in with my big discovery from all these polls - as time goes by acts get worse at writing hooks, but in a way they get better at putting together albums.

All the albums I've looked at on spotify have at least one track missing. Why is that? It's very annoying.

definitely gonna use this poll as an excuse to explore her post '80s material

listening to 'night ride home' now and wow "nothing can be done" is up every possible alley of mine, sound/arrangement-wise

One of the things I love about Night Ride Home is the sense that, on at least half the album, her songwriting pushes past 'Hejira' even - shifting from that in the moment specificity (with Hejira there's this sense of her looking out her car window and capturing in fine detail absolutely everything she sees) to sweeping, panoramic-back-through-time reflection. Hard to think of music that sounds wiser in this regard than "Passion Play", "Come In From The Cold" or "Two Grey Rooms".

Of course, "The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)" is also one of her most graceless songs, so.

Turbulent Indigo always struck me as rather blunter, more the old woman shouting at her tv that you might expect from an artist at that point in her career.

The video clip for 'Come In From The Cold' naturally cuts out about half the song, but it's still such a perfect visual accompaniment. Nonetheless I'm posting a fan video to get the full song instead - this is a song that works by accumulation:

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbJo-dsFGfI

Yeah "Nothing Can Be Done" is a fave of mine - musically it's like Tango In The Night, or The Commodores' "Night Shift".

haha yeah anything with that late-era FM super-indulgent production is ok by me

It's got a bit of FM's sense of inevitability to the melody as well I think, the way she leans into the chorus from "oh, I'm not old... I'm told".

"Sex kills" is my least favourite lyric by a favourite artist, that song makes me so sad

Yeah

I don't find "Twisted" to be awful in and of itself, it's just that it doesn't fit the album at all. I think she was trying to end it on a lighthearted, less serious note or something, but it doesn't work.

"Sex kills" is my least favourite lyric by a favourite artist, that song makes me so sad

but, boy, I love the synths, insistent bass hook, and how ominous she sounds. I wish she had sung it in Polish so I couldn't understand the words.

Hissing has the opposite problem.

Xpost

I love Twisted!

for starters, this famous song of hers played on a dulcimer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-q4foLKDlcE

wonder if Circle Game will place... it's fine as written but the group vocals really ruin it, turns it into some kind of creepy EST 70s parent singalong

2nd try:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4foLKDlcE

turns it into some kind of creepy EST 70s parent singalong

thanks. finally nailed why i love it.

California - that's my jam right there

the way she smiles when singing "california" reminds me very much of the look of someone who has found enlightenment. she has got that naive-enchanted expression of a nun who has just seen jesus in the eye. you know what i mean?

They had us sing Circle Game and other hippy dippy songs in my elementary school music class

lol, my introduction to Circle Game was from a grade school concert too, though it was the next-higher grade that sung it and I was in the audience.

Listening to Janet Jackson's cover of "The Beat of Black Wings" - such a weird, random song for her to obsess over, and yet it also makes perfect sense in some ways.

Meanwhile, in this clip of "Two Grey Rooms", a song which I adore, I love how she spends half the clip smoothing out her wrinkles in the mirror. This album is maybe the best album about aging ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjDi_plwi5A

Wait, I'm still not clear on when the deadline is.

Let's say September 28th? Maybe a mod can update the thread title?

I'm only here in spirit for this poll, I wanna report - the make-a-list-and-order-it style of poll is too work-intensive for me generally and especially right now. Hope "Let the Wind Carry Me" gets some action in the final results anyway.

I thought you disapproved of these polls

12 more days? I really don't want to be Mister Rules Man, but an 18-day poll (plus results) would put this one at almost twice the length of the last few. Could I suggest a Monday the 24th deadline and the rest of the week for the rollout?

I agree; I think people either get a ballot in quickly or at the last minute, and the length of the period in the middle doesn't matter much.

We do need to keep this thread bumped a lot more though.

I thought you disapproved of these polls

I think they're generally pretty obnoxious & especially hate the "and now, we must poll absolutely everything" tendency but Joni Mitchell's a favorite artist of mine. Also why would give even 1/4 of a shit what I approve or disapprove of, seriously dude this isn't high school

12 more days? I really don't want to be Mister Rules Man, but an 18-day poll (plus results) would put this one at almost twice the length of the last few. Could I suggest a Monday the 24th deadline and the rest of the week for the rollout?

Honestly, we can make the deadline whenever people want, but there won't be any results on the 25th, 26th, or from the 30th through the 9th, because of the holidays. I'm happy to accede to the mob's wishes in any regard besides those, though.

I'm only here in spirit for this poll, I wanna report - the make-a-list-and-order-it style of poll is too work-intensive for me generally and especially right now. Hope "Let the Wind Carry Me" gets some action in the final results anyway.

Do you want to make a list and not order it and we can do split values or whatever?

Never said I did. Was just asking you a question.

Here's an alternative compromise WMC: Made all polls due on the 28th and I'll try to roll out all results between the 3rd and the 6th... a little compressed rollout but doable for me? Or I could do the 3rd to the 6th and then finish it up on the 10th?

Go with what suits you, Mordy - if you were just picking the 28th at random I'd say it was too long; but if you need to fit in with other stuff, do that.

It has to be what suits mordy. It's his poll.

<i> I think they're generally pretty obnoxious & especially hate the "and now, we must poll absolutely everything" tendency but Joni Mitchell's a favorite artist of mine. Also why would give even 1/4 of a shit what I approve or disapprove of, seriously dude this isn't high school </i>

I find the poll results useful for highlighting the songs thst serious fans like the best - some of which aren't regularly found on "best-of" compilations and aren't well known to non-fans or even to dilettantes of that act.

OK, I didn't know any holidays played any part in the timeline of this poll. Given a Sept 28th deadline, when were the results going to roll, if Sept 30th through Oct 9th were out?

I recommend rolling the Neptunes poll concurrently if V79's schedule allows, and you can finish Joni's voting and results whenever without any schedule pressure.

Whatever is cool with me. I didn't realize we were on a tight schedule.

It's not that the schedule is tight so much as there are 42 polls in line after this one, and everybody's been patient, but a sense of forward motion will keep the enthusiasm level up for future polls.

42!

Hope "Let the Wind Carry Me" gets some action in the final results anyway.

― we don't wanna miss a THING!!! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:26 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah this is a secret classic.

there are 42 polls in line after this one

...

The secret classic is "Electricity." Or "Woman of Heart and Mind."

jeez the whole For The Roses album.

Agreed: I was listening to For The Roses last night and thinking that nearly every song feels kinda underrated and precious. It's perhaps the most Joni of her albums, wordy and flighty and mercurial.

there are 42 polls in line after this one

It's the meaning of life on ILX (and Smithy is Marvin)

For the Roses, I think I've said before, has stealthily put itself in a position for me where I think I may prefer it to Blue. Its songs will never be as fully in my blood as Blue's - I went through multiple dark nights of the soul with Blue, its songs are carved into my heart. But For the Roses, which I didn't seek out until much much later, seems deeper to me - those transitional jazz arrangements just kill me.

a sense of forward motion will keep the enthusiasm level up for future polls.

Wm I feel in the interest of fairness you should also indicate what a person might do if he wished to dampen the enthusiasm level for future polls

You're doing a fine job smithy :)

ahhh, you can't trick me, aero -- these polls fall outside mod duties so I don't have to be fair. Whatever you, in the interest of fairness, think best.

For the Roses, I think I've said before, has stealthily put itself in a position for me where I think I may prefer it to Blue.

def for me

I guess part of that is that For the Roses is, to use a word nobody likes, more mature. Blue is a young person fronting a little about how worldly she is, sometimes. It's still gorgeous and aching and pretty fucking perfect. But the actual world, the miles on the odometer, are in evidence on For the Roses - more has happened.

But I'll never cry to anything on Blue as hard as I cry if I just *think* hard enough about a song that starts "Just before our love got lost, you said:"

if you want me i'll be in the bar

I know next to nothing about Joni Mitchell & will be using the results of this poll as a guide

*to anything on For the Roses, I mean.

crut I think learning the albums is a better idea than learning the best-loved tracks. JM is very much an album artist.

I'm with Crut here but will be checking out the albums people recommend.

noted. I'm going to be paying more attention to the discussion than the track order anyway.

just before our love got lost you said "I am as constant as the northern star" and I said "constantly in the darkness? where's that at? if you want me I'll be down at the bar" on the back of a cartoon coaster by the blue tv's screen light I drew a map of Canada - O Canada! - with your face sketched on it twice ah but you are in my blood like holy wine you taste so bitter and so sweet O I could drink a case of you and still be on my feet I would still be on my feet

that is what polls are about crut (imo anyway)

a good late-material comp imo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beginning_of_Survival

sometimes i think 'you are in my blood like holy wine' is the greatest lyric ever written in the history of pop music

is "hangin' on to your BOOM BOOM pachyDERMMMM" the worst?

I could explore a cave of you.
I could eat a cake of you.
I could wear a cape of you.
I could flip a crepe of you.

I might be wrong about this, but is there any recorded cover of a Joni Mitchell song that has been anything less than a complete embarrassment-- not owning to any deficiencies on the part of the interpreters, but because of some feature of the original material? The only time I've ever thought "now that's a cover" re: Joni has been tiny private performance where somebody really needs to hear it i.e. my mom singing 5-year-old me to sleep.

You don't like the Herbie Hancock album, I take it?

I heard Fairport Convention's "Chelsea Morning" and "I Don't Know Where I Stand" years before hearing Joni's. I do prefer Joni's (though only by a tiny margin on "Stand"), but Fairport's versions are far from an embarrassment.

xp

i think we can all agree that counting crow's yellow taxi is a horror show tho

I guess she's been covered SO MUCH that I ought not to go so far as "it all sucks, folks" but I've heard so many Joni songs covered by musicians I adore and been deeply disappointed-- to the point that I just think it's a bad idea to cover Joni songs

Price's "A Case of You" is marvelous, Owen!

I was thinking a little more about how "Blue", especially "Blue", those songs all feel unfinished, that is, not "incomplete" but more like the whole story isn't there, that the epiphany is only half-there, and Joni's world is easy for the listener (or an interpreter) to inhabit

i really like kd lang's version of 'jericho'?

Price... who? This line of thinking came up when I realized I didn't care for Antony's version of "A case of you" and typically I love everything that guy touches

Prince

Oh yeah I love kd's "Jericho" but I can't recall the original

i only heard the original after the kd version and... have never been able to like it as much? it's sort of... aimless, where the lang version is very straightforward and sappy.

Prince's "Case of You" is OK. It gets extra points for being Prince but it's still not in the same galaxy as the original.

I remember Judy Collins's "Both Sides Now" as being just great, checking now...yes it is terrific!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8jGFu7ys64

does janet jackson sampling "big yellow taxi" count?

apparently there is a james blake 'case of you'

but is there a James Blunt covers Joni?

Lex, Janet actually covered "The Beat of Black Wings", as I mentioned upthread, and in the intro says it's her favourite song ever (!)

!!!

i've never heard either original or cover

I got into Joni via this Tori cover of "A Case Of You", and I still think it's lovely, really simple and heartfelt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGc6cx-KWu8

beautiful cover, Tim. i had never heard it before so thanks for sharing.

she doesn't say 'canada' like joni does - longingly...

"be prepared to bleed" - also so devastating

Not expecting agreement, but I love Judy Collins' "Both Sides Now" (and that's the one I heard first, of course). I think Three Dog Night's "Night in the City" is probably pretty good--haven't heard it in ages--though the original's better. And, as already mentioned, Tom Rush's "The Circle Game" and "Urge for Going" are, I believe, as good as the originals--not better, but just as good.

Oops--missed the Judy Collins post.

You know, Tori does "Landslide" great and even sells "Strange Fruit" just fine but even as a teenager I didn't buy her "A case of you".

That said, before I heard the Cornflake Girl b-side studio version, I'd heard an over-emoted live version on the radio that was, well, it was no good.

I like that Judy Collins version but "Both sides now" is kind of perfect to cover, the hippie stuff in the first verse is real quaint.

I actually love Bjork's version of "Boho dance" I've been listening to that tribute album now

Should mention Nazareth's "This Flight Tonight" also--not a fan, but I like that.

WHOA didn't mean to dis "Both sides now", just that Joni's lyrical voice is clearly as a part of a community and a culture on that one

xp haha yeah forgot about Nazareth that is great

OH. CSN+Y Woodstock cover obv classic too.

Listening to Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus today and thinking this is where things really start to get interesting for me. For whatever reason, the singer-songwriter alone at her/his piano or guitar has a hard job of work to get into my head. (Similarly, I'm not a huge fan of pre-electric Dylan.)

that tori amos cover is very pale compared to the original. she kind of slurs the words, she delays them, her pronunciation is horrible, totally not like the original. obviously i heard joni first.

¡I had no idea Woodstock was a Joni original! I had it on earlier & was thinking she'd done a terrific job on it.

And she wasn't even there.

the famous detail iirc is that she wrote it after deciding not to go to woodstock. xp

xp: is there any joni mitchell fan out there who likes woodstock? i think it's one of her worst songs. i can't bear the words and i find the tune not interesting at all. it would have been better if she had arrived at woodstock and played there instead of writing a song about a festival she did not go to. it's a second hand song.

her pronunciation is horrible

well this is kind of Tori's deal, to her detriment imo but it's something she does

that detail always made me somehow import cynicism into it. i can't decide if that makes it better or worse. argh, xp again

I love her version of "Woodstock," and the combination of the foreboding tone of the melody with the fact that she wasn't there just increases the under-the-table cynicism of it. Or something.

The weird instrumentation on it is what makes it imo; it's not ominous as such, more otherworldly set against all the acoustic numbers.

I'm still surprised she wrote it though, it seems very uncharacteristic melodically, and too detached lyrically (explained by her not being there I suppose).

I like the hit version of "Woodstock" by Matthew's Southern Comfort better than either the original or CSNY's. But I don't think it's that great a song in the first place--whether she was there or not doesn't much matter to me.

Should mention Nazareth's "This Flight Tonight" also--not a fan, but I like that.

OTM, v classic

Always thought this one was underrated and just gorgeous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hd2H57BAsY

I bought an immaculate vinyl copy of DJRD in April and eagerly dug in, hoping to write an On Second Thought-type reconsideration. No dice :(

immaculate vinyl copies of DJRD are by no means in short supple

*supply

I like Emmylou Harris' version of "The Magdalene Laundries".

Okay, Ladies Of The Canyon is the best thing I've found yet - I could and might vote for any of the modal run from the title track to The Priest.

I'm really not into Big Yellow Taxi though - it's a nice ditty but the production is so obvious and clumsy, I feel like I'm being mocked for listening. It's like all the other elements that aren't *quite* irritating elsewhere - the busy guitars, the choir, too-high vocals (and even the nagging thing in the right channel, which I do like) - get a big flag stuck in them for the two bars that their particular hook is worth. When Phoebe recorded her song in Friends, I'm pretty sure this was it.

"rainy night house" is my favourite on LOTC

can't tell whether i hate "big yellow taxi" because it's so ubiquitous or just because it's shit (plus the layer of being ubiquitous precisely because it's simplistic and trite)

Yes, that's the best one. Morning Morgantown is lovely too - she kicks off those early albums so well.

For The Roses I can't get into at all. Anybody want to give me a hook to look out for?

I know next to nothing about Joni Mitchell & will be using the results of this poll as a guide

― gesange der yuengling (crüt)

I'm with Crut here but will be checking out the albums people recommend.

― VOTE in the 1980's ROCK POLL PLEASE! (Algerian Goalkeeper

noted. I'm going to be paying more attention to the discussion than the track order anyway.

― gesange der yuengling (crüt)

^^

I made slight effort to listen to the first five or so earlier in the year, but it left me a little bewildered - also, I don't mind "Woodstock"/"The Circle Game"/"Big Yellow Taxi", which seem to get a drubbing in this thread.

(just listening to "Conversation", seems to have a pixified version of the "Walk On The Wild Side" singing at the end)

For The Roses I can't get into at all. Anybody want to give me a hook to look out for?

The first three songs. "Woman of Heart & Mind." And of course "You Turn Me On (I'm a Radio)."

For The Roses I can't get into at all. Anybody want to give me a hook to look out for?

― Ismael Klata, Monday, September 17, 2012 9:53 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

For the most part it's not that kind of album: it's spiky, willful, in a soft and abstract and eventually beguiling manner, as I said upthread perhaps the ultimate Joni album (though it's only my fourth-or-so favourite). It was my first album by her (stolen from my mother) but it's one I'm still extracting all the secrets from.

My favourite moments on the album are those sudden swerves and flourishing panic attacks (mirrored by unexpected musical interludes):

"your friends protect you / scrutinise me / I get so damned timid / not all the spirit that's inside of me / oh baby, I can't seem to make it with you socially / there's this reef around me..."

or

"mama thinks she spoilt me rotten / she blames herself / but papa, he blesses me / it's a rough road to travel / mama, let go now / it's always called for me..."

The Hissing of Summer Lawns (which it prefigures) may be more obviously experimental, but it's also much more composed: there's a sense of stretching out in real time that makes For The Roses feel very singular (Don Juan's Reckless Daughter probably shares that quality, but I never remember finding it very successful in that regard).

FTR will always be the least loved of the major albums. It makes demands of the listeners that even Hissing and Hejira don't. However, it's an album that insinuates itself into your musical life without noticing.

Yeah

I think Hejira is a very easy album to love actually (in spite or because of this it's still my favourite).

I like to think it was a bit of an influence on Rickie Lee Jones' Pirates (obv. Joni was generally on Rickie, but I pair these two together).

I like The Supremes' cover of "All I Want", mostly because the first 30 seconds sound like a long-lost Stereolab track.

hejira is really good although jaco's little bass solo at the end bugs me to no extent

to no end, rather

bass solo
time for my bass so-lo-o
this is my bass so-lo-o
my bass so-lo

"Big Yellow Taxi" got knocked around a bit earlier. I've always loved it, and when I listened to Ladies from the Canyon in the car today (the one album among the first six that I don't have on vinyl, so I cheated), I found it came as a relief after struggling through all of the art-song that precedes it--title song excepted.

I picked up the Songs of a Prairie Girl comp last night, as it was cheap and a convenient way to plug a few of the gaps in my Joni knowledge. A couple of things from this may well sneak onto my ballot as a result, notably "Harlem in Havana".

Clouds is nice. I could live without the anti-American acapella, though I guess it must've been new once. Roses Blue sounds very odd to me, harmonically - is that Joni's famous alternate tunings at work?

Big Yellow Taxi is great fuck the haters.

the fake laugh at the end is a bit grating but the song has one of the best pop hooks she ever wrote

Is there any love for 'Ladies Man'...

oh, there will be at LEAST two songs from 'for the roses' in my ballot

top ten should basically be Court & Spark tracks 1-10, with Twisted thrown in a bin somewhere

― Jamie_ATP

Very late on this but could not agree more. Just listening through some of her albums making a shortlist and most of Court & Spark has made it, easily my favourite album of hers. I can't think of a worse closing song in my collection, maybe that Polyphonic Spree song on their first album that's 32 minutes of humming or whatever it was.

Although I love it Court & Spark is probably my least favourite of her golden run. I think maybe "assured" isn't necessarily what I look for first in Joni's music.

Joni Mitchell feels like a period piece, in that unlike the other albums it's from a time which has passed; although I like it well enough for what it is, but I can't really relate to it as anything other than artefact.

She's got a sweet voice which is extremely pure here, but the songwriting is unimaginative I feel - certainly compared to how she takes wing shortly afterwards - and the instrumentation provides little in the way of hooks. Except for a very incongruous bout of feedback midway through one of the songs - I wonder what was the deal with that?

Oh, it's actually called Song To A Seagull, my (spotify's) fault. Just got Summer Lawns to go then I'll be about ready to do a ballot, assuming there's a long quarter-century barely worth touching thereafter.

NO you must listen to Hejira!

^^^^^

It was listening to Hejira that prompted the thought, actually (I'm not going chronologically) - it's a good record on first listen, but she's devolved so much in her songwriting that I can barely tell the tracks one from another now. There's no way I'll have time to do a dozen records on those lines any kind of justice.

she's devolved so much in her songwriting

nah m8

i am too tired to try and explain why i feel this really but mitchell's material is more about a personal & idiosyncratic nexus of performance/arrangement/songwriting than it is 'songwriting' per se -- i prefer material on 'hejira' to that on 'blue' because the songs on blue feel like they're written in the mold of songs that someone else might then go and perform, which as we have seen always ends up badly

xp: and you should listen to <i>mingus</i> and <i>wild things run fast</i> (my fave album title by her, it's her last good album if you ask me). <i>don juan's reckless daughter</i> also has its moments, especially <i>paprika plains</i>, which takes the whole of side 2. an orchestral piece with improvised piano which flows nicely. it definitely goes into my ballot.

all the tracks on 'hejira' seem pretty distinct to me but i have also listened to that album a whole bunch so

"I can barely tell the tracks one from another now"

This isn't about a devolution in songwriting, it's about a very specific sustained mood. It's not even true of the albums afterwards, either, although one of the things I love about Night Ride Home is how close it comes at times to recapturing that vibe.

Hejira's songs are easier to memorize than FTR's

the key motor of the unique territory she's getting into (thro to 'mingus' and 'd.j's r.d.' at least) is how much spacier the melodies on her verses get. 'coyote' (opening track on hejira) is remarkable, there's repeated fragments of melody though the different verses but they're more like improvisations on a theme.

(which is why 'the songs run into one another' feels a little misplaced as a criticism -- by at least one definition what 'coyote' or 'refuge of the roads' is doing isn't exactly 'songwriting'.)

(this coexists with stuff in a more traditional mood, 'amelia' or 'blue motel room' don't operate via these rules (tho the latter has an obv. get-out card re: pastiche))

If 'In A Silent Way' is the 'Future Days' of fusion, 'Hejira' is the 'Future Days' of jazzy folk pop.

the love for her post-Hissing Lawns material here is befuddling. I've read that "HEJIRA" thread but still... how can you guys stand all that Jaco Pastoriusing

Xpost I would have thought 'Amelia' does, do you mean 'Black Crow'?

xp: in a way hejira reminds of kerouac's on the road. like that book which was written on one paper roll it just flows from a to z and back. and it is not by chance that those two works are on travelling.

the love for her post-Hissing Lawns material here is befuddling. I've read that "HEJIRA" thread but still... how can you guys stand all that Jaco Pastoriusing

because jaco deployed as instrument is more bearable than jaco as creative entity in his own right, mainly

Xpost I would have thought 'Amelia' does, do you mean 'Black Crow'?

haha let's go with that! you're right, i remember amelia as scanning more regularly than it does for some reason

Pastorious' lines on Hejira are appropriate to the material. That's like saying Peter Hook overplays on New Order recordings.

he's certainly not The Incredible Pino Palladino and His Fretless Bass of Doom

I like Jaco fine, Jaco haters are tiresome, his contributions to JM records really serve the songs well

hejira's about the only time i've really dug ol' Jaco's whale hump bass

the dude from the band Japan whape humps pretty good too with the fretless, but yeah that's not a sound i dig

scoop the mids, bro...

though i always thought "coyote" sounded great with rick danko on the last waltz

yeah it really is something about the sonic qualities of his fretless bass style itself that I don't like. there are albums + players I dig that rock the fretless bass (Graceland, Fernando Saunders to some extent) but it's a hard sell for me, it's just a sound that tends to grate. the sonic palette of those late 70s albums makes my teeth hurt.

feel like my ballot is going to be all-hippie-canon just to irritate the rest of you

ditto, but out of love not spite

I really do love pretty much everything up through Hissing!

well, not Circle Game. and Woodstock. Everything else though!

I have grown to just kinda love the sound of a fretless bass. smoooooooth

Fernando Saunders is a good analogy, Shakes!

For The Roses I can't get into at all. Anybody want to give me a hook to look out for?
The first three songs. "Woman of Heart & Mind." And of course "You Turn Me On (I'm a Radio)."
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, September 17, 2012 6:57 AM (2 days ago)

oh man, "Blonde in the Bleachers" (sigh)

If this has a deadline for voting could it please be put in the thread title or somewhere?

Agreed! Deadline for voting is Sept 28th.

Paprika Plains from Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. There is a minute or so missing at the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edugVVDAO0k

In the context of Joni's catalogue Jaco can be a pretty serious interloper, but when you consider those albums within the larger scope of 70s jazz fusion it's pretty incredible what they were attempting (and successfully)

Man, I do not understand the Pastorius hate.

Don Juan and Mingus - these are marvellous records, but I'm not sure what I can make of them in a tracks poll. It's like making two lakes eligible alongside a bunch of parks in a 'favourite places to hang out' poll.

They did get me reflecting on how far she travelled in ten years though - these are genuinely nothing whatsoever like her first records. People like Paul Simon or Neil Young, you can always hear where they've come from - with Joni I can't hear that at all.

Listening to Shine again, it occurs that one thing she's always been great at is *metre* (I think that's the right word anyway, what I mean is her fitting her words to the music & melody). Again Paul Simon comes to mind, but when he kicks loose you're always aware that he's half-talking, whereas with Joni it sounds more/less natural (take your pick). I think it explains some of the strange places she ends up in harmonically too, in that sometimes the right thing to do is extend the line way beyond where simple repetition would take it, with unexpected results.

Man, I do not understand the Pastorius hate.

And today, of all days (25th anniversary of his death).

Re-listening to Hejira last night, it also seems unfair to pin the "blame" for any dislike of the way it sounds on JP anyway. A more logical culprit, if one must be found, is Joni's (often double-tracked), flanged-to-death rhythm guitar - which is all over nearly every song. I kinda dig it myself but can see why others might find it a blessed relief when "Blue Hotel Room" arrives and finally changes the tone of the record.

Will vote for "Coyote" no doubt. Maybe nothing else though.

That might be my #1 reason for loving Hejira!

Let me make one final pitch on behalf of "Come In From The Cold". I said this two years ago on another thread and stand by it:

"I thought "Come In From The Cold" was too reliant on its chorus at first, but it's one of those tunes that seems (oddly) less tuneful the more you listen to it, and more exploratory and just... Is there a single word to describe that sense you get from some songs where subtle reiterations and shifts build on themselves to create a sense of... not intensity, but rather of sweep, like watching a person's face change through timelapse photography (actually this is almost the subject matter of the song so maybe that's not so odd). It's got that same sense of a sweep through a person's life and emotional landscape that makes "Amelia" and "Hejira" and "Song For Sharon" and "Refuge of the Roads" - this kind of thing feels perhaps uniquely Joni to me."

And further, I just think the subject matter of the song, and the way Joni deals with it, though it starts off seeming simplistic, becomes increasingly moving through increased exposure. The framing of the desire for companionship, for artistic achievement, for public recognition, for physical satiation, for moral superiority, for the arresting the onset of old age... all as a manifestation of the same desire to be accepted and nurtured; Joni not resiling from these desires but realising that by not seeing them from what they are she ultimately denied herself happiness.

I can't think of a song more penetrating in its sympathetic piercing of the artist's own illusions.

I always forget how serious and stern and at times spooky the middle section of Ladies of the Canyon is ("Willy" through "The Priest").

A friend of mine rates this as one of her favourite albums ever (and certainly her favourite Joni album), which I've never gotten, but I can sorta see the mindset which elevates this in all its wispy earnestness.

Yes I mentioned that run upthread, it really is superb.

"Come In From the Cold" is fantastic - great post, Tim. Night Ride Home stands tall for me, partly because I came to it so late - I was really, really wary of exploring past the 70s with Joni. Still haven't tried Turbulent Indigo even though I know I'd probably like it.

I would be forever grateful if somebody happened upon the TV studio performance of Joni playing "Passion Play", I saw it once (where?) and it was sooo beautiful.
aero, I wouldn't recommend Turbulent Indigo to anybody, it's actually kinda bad! But I would recommend Travelogue and Both Sides Now to everyone, if you haven't heard them yet

Can I just

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKdGkaaSp7I

I drew a line in the sand and voted. I had to; it was driving me mad.

pre-70s: 1
70s: 17
post-70s: 2

whoa @ at that version of 'hejira'

damn i need to get a ballot in

Some final pre-voting thoughts:

I've been listening to 'Ladies of the Canyon' and 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter' a lot, to see if there was anything from either that I wanted to vote for. These albums are on either side of her golden run i.e. the albums I listen to regularly. I must have gotten into folk in a big way b/w first hearing 'Ladies' (some 16 years ago, hmm) and now, b/c the formality of the album that used to pass me by seems really compelling now. I remember at the time liking 'Clouds' more b/c it sounded more like Blue somehow, maybe it's just that with some exceptions Joni sings so much more seriously on 'Ladies' than feels like 'her' to me (I remember thinking 'Morning Morgantown' didn't even sound like her). This really appeals to me now, though perhaps as much as a genre exercise as anything - esp. the zenith triptych of seriousness on "The Arrangement", "Rainy Night House" and "The Priest". Still, even those tunes and "Conversation" I don't love as much as some of the tunes I can't fit on my ballot from later albums, so...

'Don Juan' I didn't/couldn't get at 14, now I feel like I get it but it still doesn't do enough for me relative to her earlier records (except for "The Silky Veils of Ardor"). In a funny way 'Hejira' feels jazzier and more adventurous (musically) to me now than it did when I was 14 and it was my favourite album in the universe and it just seemed really intuitive, and by contrast the more overt experiments of 'Don Juan' lose some of the sense of achievement they might attain otherwise - like, Joni had already internalised this strange, sinuous, otherworldly fashion of songwriting, but then on Don Juan it's like she's trying to relearn what she's supposed to sound like with only the written adjectives 'strange', 'sinuous' and 'otherworldly' as a guide.

It's still a pretty good album though, and great at times.

I've listened to her first 10 albums now, all of which I like to varying degrees. I'll have to listen some more before I can make a tracks ballot.

I bought Don Juan's in April, prepared to accept it as an Unheralded Masterpiece. So it surprised me when I found nothing awful but little that imprinted itself (unlike, say, Mingus' "The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey").

Yeah there's nothing offputting about it, it's just that once you get past the surface most of the songs seem undeveloped.

Whereas "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey" is insane.

They are underdeveloped, but there are a couple that really hooked me. 'Talk To Me' I like, it's got a nice groove and I can even overlook the horrible heptalk at the end. What's that all about, anyway, just her getting deep into the jazz? And appearing in blackface on the sleeve too, it's kind of an unusual move.

I loooove "God must be a boogie man", both 1979 and 2001 versions. I don't know why but I always get "Which would it be? / Mingus one or two or three?" in my head all the time. Except for the bawling choir of jerks on the chorus it would be a top 10 Joni track.

That bawling choir of jerks is what almost made this top 20 for me! Although I can see how others may find them an irritant.

bawling choir of jerks

I love this phrase

Voting deadline tomorrow! Get your ballots in!

What do you guys think of "Paprika Plains"?

Is it weird if I find Summer Lawns a little boring?

In other weirdness, I think I like For the Roses more than Court and Spark.

I love it, was the first track that really stuck out on DJRD. It didn't quite make my ballot though (xpost).

Voted! Usual last minute agonies (why do no marks like The Cure get 40 track ballots and all the greats get only grumble grumble etc etc?)

Lindsey and the choir of jerks high on my ballot. Paprika Plains just made the cut.

can we postpone the deadline to sunday? i can't vote before, i have to work!

Fine with me!

Tbh, I haven't even gotten my spreadsheet to work. I may end up aggregating the scores manually idk.

It's Sunday now?

done and sent! thanks for doing this mordy

let's say that ballots are due friday but if they trickle in before too late on Sunday (when I plan to aggregate them) I'll include them

Friday! Can't wait to get joni'ed out tomorrow putting together a ballot.

another bump to remind people that ballots are due today!

I'd listened to my sister's copy a couple of times before but it's finally sinking in just how devastating Blue is.

I might even rank this over Hejira. Maybe ...

My poll is feeling very canon-y but what can you do.

I've little idea what the canon is here, so it should be a fun rundown

Isn't the canon all about Blue first and then Court and Spark?

Either that or I have listened to so much pre-Don Juan Joni that I think the whole damn thing is the canon.

I mean, I think "The Arrangement" is a historically critical musical achievement so getting down from a shortlist of 50 to 20 is going to be difficult.

If it's Taxi #1, Woodstock #2 and the rest nowhere, I'll be underwhelmed

It's really tough narrowing down the tracks on Summer Lawns - lots of great mini-hooks in almost every track and a very consistent sound throughout.

Oooooh finally did my listen-through this past week, made my ballot and boy did my memory foam underestimate the immensity of Hejira giant corpse.

1968-1971: 6
1972-1976: 7
1977-1991: 5
1992-present: 2

Three (!) albums-I-love got shut-out on the tracks list.

boy did my memory foam underestimate the immensity of Hejira giant corpse.

Wait, what did you mean by this?

Not trying to be a dick, just interested.

I mean Hejira is unspeakably unstoppably good and "hmm! what Dog eat dog song could I vote for?" quickly became "Why can't I vote for all the Hejira songs"

submitted!

It's really tough narrowing down the tracks on Summer Lawns - lots of great mini-hooks in almost every track and a very consistent sound throughout.
― skip, Friday, September 28, 2012 2:41 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's all about In France... and Edith... for me

In France is actually one of my least favourite Hissing tunes, feels kinda forced to me. Whereas Edith is amazing, probably my favourite. It's the song which most fully embraces that dazzled soft-jazz glow she's going for.

The "riff" so to speak of Edith just slays me....and the lyrics are amazing

"Why can't I vote for all the Hejira songs"

Oh, totally. Double-tracked flanged guitars + fusion bass = musical heaven

Voted

I applied a rule of no more than 5 songs from one album mainly to avoid voting for all the Hejira songs.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0097AQEOK/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=amz08223-21&camp=2902&creative=19466&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B0097AQEOK&adid=1BRVAX2FD11094H92M7B

Just a reminder that though the deadline was yesterday I will still take ballots until aggregation probably sometime tomorrow evening. I will give fair warning but if you don't want to be caught out before tabulation occurs, get your ballots in now!

ballot sent, hopefully not too late.....

sending in a bit

I'll be accepting ballots until late tnite.

Ballot sent - hopefully in time.

voted finally, hope to read this thread someday!

voted. MOrdy and Joni rule!

Jessica Hopper review of the new studio albums box set: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/17269-the-studio-albums-1968-1979/

This is a basic set-- no frills, just all the albums' original layouts reproduced in envelope sleeves, the fonts so tiny only mice could read them. There are no extras, outtakes or re-anythinged.

Ugh, why??