Neil Young Vs Rolling Stones

Neil's been interesting for longer, that's for sure

stones less emo

Neil's been interesting for longer, that's for sure

― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:00 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think u mean innaresting

it feel like Young has recorded a series of "When The Whip Comes Down"s for the last thirty years while the Stones only a handful.

not even sure what that means. but OK!

i have 4 good albums by the stones, and 4 good albums by neil.

argghhh.

i wonder who has more good albums?

not even sure what that means. but OK!

hard, tense, bad taste rockers

ah.
anyway, i'm voting chuck berry
http://r-h-p.com/rock/wp-content/gallery/lynn_goldsmith/Lynn_Goldsmith-Keith_Richards-Neil_Young_and_Chuck_%20Berry.jpg

or maybe stevie nicks
http://celebritywonder.ugo.com/picture/Mick_Jagger/NeilYoungSt_Mazur_13656442.jpg

we have to see who's got what here and what's missing. Does Neil Young have a Paint It, Black?

good-to-great-to-unbelievably-awesome Neil albums:
s/t
Everybody Knows this is Nowhere
After the Gold Rush
Harvest
Time Fades Away
On the Beach
Tonight's the Night
Zuma
American Stars n Bars
Trans
Freedom
Ragged Glory
Unplugged

plus a variety of stray tracks strewn across Buffalo Springfield, CSNY, Stills-Young, and other solo albums

good-to-great-to-unbelievably-awesome Stones albums:
Flowers
Beggars Banquet
Let it Bleed
Sticky Fingers
Exile on Main Street
Some Girls

plus a TON of great singles

... kinda gotta give it Neil here

Did the Stones have a Trans?

not really...? I guess Emotional Rescue comes closest?

No.

Keith probably hates synthesizers or something

gotta give it to neil on albums, but for individual songs i think the stones has more undeniable works of genius.

saying this is as a huuuuuuuuuge neil young fan, but i don't think i like anything of his as much as "paint it black", "street fighting man", jumpin' jack flash", etc.

ER is Some Girls: The Sequel plus one disco-"influenced" track, hence awesome.

Martin Scorcese vs. Jim JArmusch

btw Shakey I can't believe you omitted most of the sixties albums.

I'd add:

Out of Our Heads
Aftermath
Between The Buttons

from another angle: which is worse? Landing On Water or Dirty Work?

I know Street Fighting Man is supposed to be political and shit, but whenever I hear it, I just think about macho dudes with moustaches roughing each other up in an alley with pipes and chains.

LOW

The Stones' eighties were more consistent than Young's, if consistency is your thing.

consistent for me to poop on

sorry

I can't believe you omitted most of the sixties albums

they were much better at singles than albums for most of the 60s. I find a lot of early Stones stuff fairly laughable tbh - next to their contemporaries (the Who, the Kinks, the Beatles, etc.) it's kind of ridiculous the amount of crap they got away with releasing.

the only stones thing from the 80s I was conscious of at the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G4jnaznUoQ

probably why it took me a long time to get into the stones.

The Srones were more consistent in general i guess, sometimes it was an advantage, sometimes not.

xxpost

stones easy. by an extremely wide margin.

did the Stones ever collab with anyone as awesome as Rick James?

Mick collaborated with the Jacksons!

oh shit, that;s right.

did they ever collab?

I'm sure if thought hard I suppose Tattoo You, Undercover, Dirty Work and Steel Wheels boast more good songs than all of Young's eighties but I don't wanna think about it

*if I

lol

Neil collaborations:
Buffalo Springfield
CSNY
Devo
Crazy Horse
Nils Lofgren
Linda Ronstadt
Pearl Jam
Jack Nitszche
... I'm probably forgetting a few

Rolling Stones collabs:
Dr. John
uh they had the Dust Brothers produce some tracks once?

crazy horse stretching it a little bit as far as collaborations go.

Feel like this is more a poll about how you roll than what you like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Mfq7z_vHc

Apart from the fact that the Stones recorded more great songs and great albums than Young, they were also snappier dressers. And did stuff like Performance, One Plus One, R&R Circus, Invocation of my Demon Brother, etc. Jagger even got dumped from Fitzcarraldo which is pretty cool. They helped fund Jodorowski I think right? Or was that just Klein? Sweet logo too.

In Neil Young's favor there's the Lionel train thing.

I mean I like both, but I'm way more likely to throw on a Neil Young record than a Stones record. But that's because I'm more of a lonely-guy-thinking-baout-things type most of the time and I don't get all angsty very much anymore.

Master Musicians of fucking Joujouka

unusual number on their guitars:

5 string tele
vs
3 pickup les paul

film contest would be interesting but I think yr neglecting/underrating Neil's filmed work (particularly Human Highway but also his videos, some of which are hilarious and amazing)

xp

Stones did not bankroll Jodorowsky, that was Lennon and Klein

You're So Vain!

both been covered by devo.

Bette Midler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewj5Kb7jVEQ

ah, right lennon was the one who hooked jodorowsky up with abkco
xp

if yr gonna give the Stones Jajouka than I say Neil gets to claim Royal Trux's Thank You by way of David Briggs lol

that's like giving the stones credit for everything Jack Nitzsche or Jimmy Miller did.

And I think Nitzsche worked with the Stones before he worked with Young, so the Stones should get credit for Neil Young.

we need some kind of flowchart

can we blame the Stones for Primal Scream? Neil gets Dinosaur Jr.

well, not the Kennedys -- that was you and me.

I just don't get why you wouldn't count Brian Jones collaboration with the MMoJ. Because he's not the whole Stones? Or because he doesn't play on the record? I would consider a Neil Young produced album to be a NY collab.

cuz he didn't do jackshit on that MoJ record besides getting it financed

unless you think phasing effects are really important

actually, I do

d'oh I forgot Neil's Dead Man sdtk in my list

which is def better than Mick's sdtk for Invocation of my Demon Brother (so glad Anger got Beausoleil for the final version)

used/got whatever

what about his soundtrack for Alfie

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cohCR3rUh0

what about his soundtrack for Alfie

haha okay I had to look this up

NEIL. How is this even a question.

god Jagger is responsible for so much garbage. I think the Stones' lows are waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than Neil's lows.

peaks are all that matter to me

this is a pretty gd-great run of seven studio albs in a row:

beggars banquet
let it bleed
sticky fingers
exile on main st
goats head soup
it's only rock 'n roll
black and blue

but this is better:

neil young
everybody knows this is nowhere
after the goldrush
harvest
on the beach
tonight's the night
zuma

I would take neil's post-80s output over the stones' career

this is a pretty gd-great run of seven studio albs in a row:

beggars banquet
let it bleed
sticky fingers
exile on main st
goats head soup
it's only rock 'n roll
black and blue

not sure why you would leave out the 3 before that which are all classics. Plus in terms of singles before Beggar's Banquet you have:

It's All Over Now
Time is On My Side
The Last Time
Play With Fire
Satisfaction
Get Off of My Cloud
As Tears Go By
19th Nervous Breakdown
Paint It Black
Mother's Little Helper
Lady Jane
Have you seen yr mother...
Let's spend the night
ruby tuesday
we love you
etc

at least 2 brilliant albums worth of material right there.

The Joujaka guys are on Steel Wheels.

Funny poll. Neil Young, based only on the music they've made that I care about. By now, they've probably both made more that I don't care about (or don't know) than I do. Predicted final score: Rolling Stones win 74-57, even though posted comments seem to point towards a win for Neil.

heh neil just placed at #41 on 80s rock poll (tracks)

If this was a poll as to which act is more likely to release an album I hold on par with their best work, then Neil. Cumulative ... tougher to pick than I thought. Neil's certainly got more compelling deep cuts that don't get played on the radio, which could be the deciding factor. I'd certainly rather be locked in a room with his complete solo/band/collaboration discography than the equivalent for the Stones.

neil young for sure, as much as i love the stones. imo neil's freedom-sleeps with angels run stands pretty strong alongside his best work and the stones imo never came close to their peak again once 'exile' was out there. i do really like 'some girls' and 'emotional rescue' but not at that level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjxmZw3mVTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czTIjYwGlc

Predicted final score: Rolling Stones win 74-57, even though posted comments seem to point towards a win for Neil.

no way, Neil will win this easily.

the loser's supporters will blame random googlers either way

I think it comes down to what decade you like the best. For me the Stones win the '60s. Young wins the '70s to the present. But since I like music from the '60s at least 5x as much as any of those other decades, the Stones still win.

Like I think Trans is cool but the idea that someone would rate Trans and not Satanic Majesties is dumb to me.

did you use some algorithm to determine which classic-rock titans had never been matched up before? kinda pointless, but I'm a desperate Neil fan so my vote is an easy one. spose I could break it down with some fake rigor, let's see:

pop stones era vs commerical Neil w/Harvest, Stones win; OTOH Neil gets a little cred for not totally sucking since 1980; so really it all comes down to Exile vs Beach/Tonight/Zuma: exile beats any one, sure, but overall? gotta give it to neil.

they were much better at singles than albums for most of the 60s. I find a lot of early Stones stuff fairly laughable tbh - next to their contemporaries (the Who, the Kinks, the Beatles, etc.) it's kind of ridiculous the amount of crap they got away with releasing.

wtf, the first stones album is like a light-year ahead of any of those bands' debuts (all of which i like).

ilm love for neil young amazes me.

I wonder what the results would be if it was just Neil Young vs. Keith Richards?

Jagger even got dumped from Fitzcarraldo

no fault of mick's - the shoot was much delayed, conflicting with his schedule, and he had to leave.

oh really? I was just remembering those before and after clips from My Best Fiend where they cut from a Robards/Jagger scene to the same thing with Kinski and the difference was hilarious.

wtf, the first stones album is like a light-year ahead of any of those bands' debuts (all of which i like).

It's also weird to compare the Stones debut (1964) to Neil Young's debut (68) without factoring in the massive changes that took place in those few years. If you're going to compare the Stones to their early contemporaries, you need to compare Young's debut to what other L.A. artists were doing in '67/'68 and imo he comes up pretty damn short compared to Byrds, Beach Boys, Love, Van Dyke Parks, Beefheart, Zappa, Doors, et al.

I completely misremembered that Fitzcarraldo story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUh0diX3b-8

I've loved the stones longer but neil deeper

Stones 68-72
Neil 73-75
Stones 76-78
Neil 79
Stones 80-81
Neil 82-present

and yes, I am saying landing on water is better than dirty work

i'd extend the stones 80-81 to whenever undercover is but that breakdown works for me. i love neil young but this is stones pretty easy for me. blame it on disco.

yeah undercover is 83, and i def can see why someone would push that over everybody's rockin. it's really only 89 on where you GOTTA give it to Neil.

i'm really excited to hear psychedelic pill. i've looked forward to hearing other new neil young records in the relatively recent past, too. i'm 32, and i've never looked forward to a new stones record being released in my lifetime. i doubt i ever will.

gotta give it to neil though i love the stones too.

most chances the Stones won't release a new record anyway

it's really only 89 on where you GOTTA give it to Neil.

It's remarkable that this mock rivalry of so many decades is only definitively settled that late in the game. '89 is when the Stones were totally subsumed into corporate stagnation (as much as Keith can ever be tamed). They lose Wyman, and everyone in the band gets this perma-bemused look in their eye save Jagger. Yet that's when Neil got his, what, fifth wind, and started releasing some of his best music ever.

I think I'm giving it to the stones for rhythm section related reasons. If this was Neil vs Bob (the other act Neil says he was actively trying to steal from) I'd probably vote Neil.

and yes, I am saying landing on water is better than dirty work

― da croupier, Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:22 AM

This comes down to "Winning Ugly" vs "Pressure" imo

really 82-88 says more about the listener than the band

voted Stones, due to this unassailable run:

Out of Our Heads (1965, UK) / Out of Our Heads (1965, US)
December's Children (And Everybody's) (1965, US)
Aftermath (1966, UK) / Aftermath (1966, US)
Between the Buttons (1967, UK) / Between the Buttons (1967, US)
Their Satanic Majesties Request (1967)
Beggars Banquet (1968)
Let It Bleed (1969)
Sticky Fingers (1971)
Exile on Main St. (1972)
Goats Head Soup (1973)
It's Only Rock 'n Roll (1974)
Black and Blue (1976)
Some Girls (1978)

wtf, the first stones album is like a light-year ahead of any of those bands' debuts (all of which i like).

I just disagree. Stones debut has one good song on it (Tell Me). The Who has two classics, both of which are better than anything on the Stones debut (My Generation and The Kids Are Allright) plus The Ox and a couple other decent tracks. Kinks debut has You Really Got Me and Stop Your Sobbing. and the Beatles debut is obviously the best of the lot imho. But beyond the debuts, these other bands had a rapid and remarkable increase in quality over the next couple years while Jagger and Richards were puttering around making inferior versions of things like Staple Singers songs before they came anywhere close to hitting their stride.

and then there's Jagger's pitifully embarassing James Brown-emulating routine...

Yeah, but why worry too much about whether they had too much filler on early albums? Their early singles run is what counts.

yeah, i tend to agree about the early stuff. obviously the idea of the "album" was rapidly evolving at the time (acceptability of throwing in obvious filler material, covering songs vs original material, etc), so for the early stuff, to me, it just makes sense to lay out the top songs for the stones, like wk did a little earlier, and evaluate them like that without worrying about which album it technically belonged to.

Their early singles run is what counts.

this is true, but Neil wasn't around for the pre-album period, really, so it's hard to compare. what I think is true is that for the milieu he was operating in (first in BS and then solo), Neil was hitting it outta the park right from the beginning, which was not the case with the Stones. Neil never really did "filler" at any point in his career imho. He may have had bad ideas, but they weren't cranked out out of economic necessity.

(btw I obviously totally disagree with wk re: he comes up pretty damn short compared to Byrds, Beach Boys, Love, Van Dyke Parks, Beefheart, Zappa, Doors, et al.)

well okay I rate the Beach Boys over him. Beefheart I rate about equally.

haha i actually meant the original UK version which doesn't have 'tell me' -- their 'route 66' is just one of the all-time lead-off tracks imo. i don't find jagger's singing embarrassing at all (espec compared to the james brown covers on the first who album). discovering the first couple stones albums was a revelation after years of assuming they were weak, and i'm definitely more inclined to listen to them than 'let it bleed' these days.

"Burned" and "Out of My Mind" were not hit out of the park. I'm a big fan of "Clancy" and "Flying on the Ground Is Wrong," but they're more like doubles.

i don't find jagger's singing embarrassing at all

his singing is fine from the get-go, was referring more to the dance moves

"Burned" and "Out of My Mind" were not hit out of the park. I'm a big fan of "Clancy" and "Flying on the Ground Is Wrong," but they're more like doubles.

yeah, I don't think "Nowadays Clancy..." b/w "Burned" really measures up to say 8 Miles High/Why, or Little Red Book / A Message To Pretty, or Monday Monday/Got a Feeling, or I Saw Her Again / Even If I Could or Last Train To Clarksville, I'm a Believer, I'm Not Your Steppin Stone, etc etc

all of which were released in the same year by bands in the same town

think jagger better dancer than neil young tbh. wyman better dancer than neil young.

Road-eyes: better dancers than Neil Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XWHF27R0AA

Nils Lofgren interpretative dancing on the Trans tour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every Mick Jagger dance move ever

What are the top 10 Neil Young songs?

what are the top 10 neil young songs to dance to?

1. Walk On

2. We Are in Control

boy if 'walk on' is number one say no more

those two songs are all I got. unless you want to count waltzes. neil has a lot of great waltzes.

when Shakey dances he can really love

Which of them wrote more great riffs?

riffs i give to stones, solos to neil

Neil writes better lyrics than Mick, that's for damn sure

Neil is also funnier

true on both counts

neil's rightwing turn in the 80s more defendable, less repugnant than mick's

mick was always kind of a right-winger, no?

Neil's rightwing turn not really very rightwing tbf

in practice yeah but lyrics don't go full fuck the poor until the 80s really

Jagger's an exemplary lyricist wtf

There are areas in which one or other is superior but as far as lyrics prime Neil and Jagger are equals.

well, for one thing Neil's never resorted to race-baiting in his lyrics iirc

the stones have meant more to me over a lifetime but they have literally no songs that make me cry. this is a huge mark against them in my book. (if "they have no songs that make steven tyler cry" is also a factor in your book then God bless you.) Neil Young has "Albuquerque" & several others on Tonight's the Night and is otherwise pretty cry-free for me so...can somebody add a Joni Mitchell option to this poll? thanks

what can I say the older I get the sillier and more irritating Jagger becomes

xp

kinda shocked to hear steven tyler say he's more interested in songs that make him wanna cry than songs that make him wanna dance. 'i don't wanna miss a thing' making more sense now though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91KmtnsUtw8

^
Aero

...and "Cryin'"" xpost

no way Steven Tyler hasn't once given it up during "No Expectations"

remember when
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMw2_niIUN4

"Moonlight Mile" might work too. "Memory Motel" breaks me up.

Hell, even Steel Wheels' "Almost Hear You Sigh" is pretty damn affecting.

argument could be made that this thread is really aerosmith vs pearl jam in disguise, or maybe new york dolls vs america

well, for one thing Neil's never resorted to race-baiting in his lyrics iirc

both have resorted to stupid girl baiting many times.

We should have called this poll "Stupid Girls"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-2MenrnR2U

Out of Tears does not make me cry! I checked this in my memory banks - I love the shit out of Beggars Banquet & Exile & Some Girls is just unbelievable but it's like sorrow & bitter regret is not part of their actual emotional playbook for me. I don't buy Jagger when he's in sadness mode - I don't really buy into him emotionally generally, he's a pretty heavy aesthete in my book. Which is fine, but..."Albuquerque"

xp OK actually I'll give you "No Expectations" maybe once in a blue moon. And probably if I listened to 'Fool to Cry' it would do it but let's be fair, literally anything I listen to right now is going to make me cry

Since I came to loving Roxy first, I gotta say that Bryan Ferry taught me to love what Jagger does as a vocalist.

nah the Brit-imitating-black-people dynamic doesn't come into play in any of those analogies, balls. and that's really the most irritating thing to me about the Stones, Jagger's "I LOVE BLACK PEOPLE" schtick - I know it comes from a legitimate love of black music but ye gods he really didn't know how to express it well sometimes (thinking of things like the line in Some Girls, or Al Jolson-ize Love in Vain, or the aforementioned James Brown parroting... it's like blackface sometimes, it's just so so wrong)

xp

both have resorted to stupid girl baiting many times.

Neil's never played the rapist/murderer angle. Stupid Girl is mean-spirited but it isn't anywhere close to the cruelty of Under My Thumb or Midnight Rambler.

this song ALWAYS makes me cry thinking of the LOST WEEKENDS that I dont remember.
1NewOrleansMan 1 week ago in playlist ROLLING STONES 3

btw I'm literally right at the foot of Laurel Canyon right now and the tagline from Revolution Blues just kicked in, fuck yes

I don't find "Under My Thumb" cruel at all.

I don't really buy into him emotionally generally, he's a pretty heavy aesthete in my book

^^^this

I can't say any RS song has ever really resonated with me emotionally. My favorite lyrical Stones bit is "Dead Flowers", which I like to think as young Mick addressing his older self - that my fave moment of theirs works best as a meta-in-joke is emblematic of this, I think.

Plenty of songs in the OTB/TFA period are as scary-apocalyptic as "Gimme Shelter," though -- and without Merry Clayton

Neil's never played the rapist/murderer angle
he did shoot his baby down by the river tho

see "Dead Flowers" is an excellent example of a song that starts as a joke and ends as something moving and sweet. Maybe it's Keith's cracked harmonies and Taylor's solo.

ah shit how could I forget that!!! okay I retract the murderer bit

xp

He killed a dog in "Revolution Blues" too.

eh who cares about dogs

claimed to be the ocean, which has drowned like millions of people

aero i did not mean to suggest "out of tears" made you cry i meant to suggest you were, as the song says, "out of tears"

mittens mo collier!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d4cDMiUarA

Cortez THE KILLER

"he" /= "I"

i'm pretty sure 'you got the silver' has made me cry at some point, probably wouldn't now though.

The more I think about it, I would take just the intros of the Stone's greatest songs on an endless loop over Neil Young's entire catalog.

young's voice is like nails on a chalkboard for me. i can sit through 'live rust' and enjoy most of it but that's about it.

refuse to vote

let's be fair, literally anything I listen to right now is going to make me cry

Thought about posting the youtube of "Please Don't Go Topless Mother" to test this out but I am a sober and respectful ilxor

voting Neil btw

I used to be a pretty big Neil Young hater but I was converted by Tonight's the Night

I was prominent in the Neil Young hater community

Steven Tyler was in the Manson family?!

Walk On This Way

surprised that anyone who loves Joni and guitar playing would hate on Neil

kinda shocked to hear steven tyler say he's more interested in songs that make him wanna cry than songs that make him wanna dance.

he's older now and he's a clever swine

Stupid Girl is mean-spirited but it isn't anywhere close to the cruelty of Under My Thumb or Midnight Rambler.

^all three are awesome songs, what's the bitching about

And what part of "Albuquerque" makes you sad? When our hero whips up some fried eggs and ham, or when he rents a car?

Neil's never played the rapist/murderer angle
he did shoot his baby down by the river tho

― tylerw, Wednesday, September 26, 2012 4:58 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

zing

Welfare Mothers is a seriously gut-wrenching and emotional jam.

you've never made fried eggs and country ham in the middle of the night stoned out of our gourd on honey sliders?

White Castle Honey Sliders

would consume

Stupid Girl is mean-spirited but it isn't anywhere close to the cruelty of Under My Thumb or Midnight Rambler.

^all three are awesome songs, what's the bitching about

i know right, imagine anyone objecting to glamorizing rape or a guy boasting about how he's got his girlfriend cowed or...a song called 'stupid girl,' about how stupid some girl is.

sante fe is less than 90 miles away but it sounds like forever

^all three are awesome songs, what's the bitching about

nice word choice btw

surprised that anyone who loves Joni and guitar playing would hate on Neil

lol Neil's got some nice moves but as a guitarist he is not in Joni's class

And what part of "Albuquerque" makes you sad? When our hero whips up some fried eggs and ham, or when he rents a car?

think Albuquerque is about being completely alienated from p. much everything in your life and wishing you were someone else, which is pretty crushing. though when I saw NY & he sang the line about rolling a number a bunch of old hippies cheered and that was more depressing than the song because anybody who can't see that the narrator of "Albuquerque" is not rolling a number for the good times really doesn't belong at the show

I'm quite sure they're cheering the time they got high with a friend listening to "Albuquerque," rather than the narrator of the song. In any event, surely people can interpret songs and cheer however they want.

Tonight's The Night is all about how the singing takes its cue from the playing.

hippies cheer like THIS

In any event, surely people can interpret songs and cheer however they want.

this position on lyrics belongs in high school imo, if people from Ohio clap when Neil Young sings "four dead in Ohio" then they are dumbfucks

lol Neil's got some nice moves but as a guitarist he is not in Joni's class

I love both but man this opinion strikes me as really odd. Nonetheless I wasn't even meaning to conflate their guitar playing, I was bringing up Joni and guitar playing as distinct qualities. Neil obviously shares some DNA with folk-period Joni, there's common ground there. Neil's guitar playing is very different from Joni's tho, he does totally different things. I guess they both like some of the same open tunings but that's about it.

Of course I'd agree with that--are the two examples really comparable? (xpost)

they're Segretti aides iirc

xp @ clemenza - well, one is the extreme iteration of the other imo. nb I am a complete fascist about this, ignore me

Actually, let me amend that. If a bunch of people, old hippies or otherwise, cheered "four dead in Ohio," I would assume they'd be cheering dozens of possible reasons (solidarity with the song's disgust with Nixon, etc.) other than cheering the fact that four people were killed by the National Guard--that wouldn't make any sense.

Anyway, I know we view lyrics differently.

when ppl cheer at songs in concerts it almost always means either 'hey i know this one', 'hey this song mentions drugs', or 'hey this song mentions the place i'm from' right? i mean when ppl cheer u2 playing 'pride' i don't think they're pro-shot ringing out in the memphis sky. would like to see dallas audience reaction to 'we didn't start the fire' though.

In the Rush documentary, there's live footage of them playing "Red Sector A," where a flash of light elicits a huge cheer from the audience. The song is about the Holocaust.

i know right, imagine anyone objecting to glamorizing rape or a guy boasting about how he's got his girlfriend cowed or...a song called 'stupid girl,' about how stupid some girl is.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:07 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If you object (or bitch) about uncomfortable themes in music, go listen to Pat Boone or Mitch Miller. And get off a Neil Young/Rolling Stones thread cuz you will probably be appalled. And for shit's sake, dont go listen to rap, or your Victorian sensibilities will really be shattered.

Slight derail: is 'Stupid Girl' the only song title NY and the Stones share?

well, the Stones have "Indian Girl" and Young his Native American trilogy.

I don't have a problem with those themes Bill but I reserve the right to object when those themes are dealt with in an unappealing way. some songs about rape/murder are better than other songs about rape/murder.

some songs about rape/murder give me money, some songs about rape/murder buy me clothes

nothing against neil, but I would guess the ratio of stones songs played to neil young songs played at social gatherings I have attended over the last 25 years would something like 500 to 1.

neil isn't much for social gatherings. his songs go over better than the stones' in the hovels of cantankerous loners.

well, except for mine

xposts Neil also "Borrowed" the tune of "Lady Jane" for..."Piece of Crap".

for the record 'under my thumb' is one of my top 5 stones tracks easy but i'm not deluded enough to not realize that it's pretty misogynistic and that a depressingly high number of stones songs express similarly vile sentiments.

also fwiw i'd rather listen to mitch miller than neil young, any fuckin' day.

??? Mick Jagger was a feminist ahead of his time. He is simply stating that women can be huge assholes just like men. None of this sugar and spice crap. "Under My Thumb" is about payback.

sure pal

how soon we forget jagger's feminist manifesto "she's the boss"

UMT is clearly misogynistic but I read it as a bitter revenge fantasy, emphasis on fantasy. Nothing has changed, she still pushes him around, he's just daydreaming or deluding himself.

yeah i'm sure mick wasn't in any position of power in his relationships w/women when he wrote that song

Slight derail: is 'Stupid Girl' the only song title NY and the Stones share?

"Round and Round", but Chuck Berry wrote it so maybe it doesn't count?

xp you misunderstand me. I don't believe that Jagger intended it that way, I just choose to read that into it because it amuses me.

ah gotcha

I guess I generally tend to think that when somebody is boasting that much they're full of shit and the opposite is actually true.

mick jagger most likely wishes he was a woman. did you catch his uber macho role in Performance?

knee-jerk "political correctness" is fucking stifling.

I don't have a problem with those themes Bill but I reserve the right to object when those themes are dealt with in an unappealing way. some songs about rape/murder are better than other songs about rape/murder.

― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:24 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hey, can you burn me some Four Freshman cd's? I'll take some Joan Baez while your at it.

bill that's such an infantile stance it's like...v. heavy infant mentality there man

hahahahah, thanks for your advice, Dad. this is great advice on a message board where adults are actually voting on who is better, neil young v. rolling stones. the paragon of mature discourse.

son I'm just concerned - your mother and I had high hopes for you - you like some cool tunes - but you keep rocking this "you didn't like something maybe kinda ugly WELL ENJOY YOUR PERRY COMO RECORDS" thing that you've been doing since you were a baby - we just worry, son, we worry

I tried singing "Magic Moments" to my daughter last night and she punched me in the face.

I did the Jagger moves from "Start Me Up" in front of my niece and she kicked me in the balls.

If you did "Moves Like jagger" she would have been ecstatic.

she does like "Marry The Night."

i talked about this on the Stones poll thread a few months ago but Ellen Willis makes a good case for why "Under My Thumb" is not sexist, or at least not as bad as a lot of other Stones songs:

http://jezebel.com/5797747/the-willis-test-is-the-new-bechdel-test

I am fairly certain Joan Baez has some dope songs about rape/murder (she must have done Silver Dagger at some point, right?) but I hate her voice, so

xp

the Stones (Jagger!) are evil sons of bitches, everybody knows that. just like everybody knows they are the biggest fucking band ever. Play With Fire, Under My Thumb, Street Fighting Man, Let It Bleed, Brown Sugar... morally disagreeable songs are what made them who they are. deal with it

how can anybody who likes voices hate Joan Baez's voice

says the guy who hates Fogerty's voice

lol

i'm kinda tantalized by Mick as a feminist actually

by the idea of Mick as a feminist I should say

you meant it the first way

i thought about bringing up the willis test (or as i like to call it, the "nookie" test, in honor of the ladies at limp bizkit concerts who holler along in identification with fred and his regret over the nookie) but honestly mick is such an obvious pig that i don't feel like defending him when one of his mid-60s "haha, i am over yew" songs is thrown under the bus.

"Under My Bus"

Have You Seen My Song, Baby, Thrown Under the Bus

Under the Gold Bus.

sorry if that imagery was cliche, guys, but i'm not here to make friends

I don't think that willis test really works.

http://www.wonkavisionmagazine.com/images/web_zine_images/webzine8_images/bruno.jpg

yeah i'm not wholeheartedly endorsing it, it just feels worth bringing up when "Under My Thumb" is singled out, especially in the context of the Stones' catalog when there are much more inarguably problematic songs (xpost)

I don't think that willis test really works.

admittedly when she brought up cat stevens' "Wild world" as something that would never exist in a gender inverse, she couldn't have foreseen concrete blonde's "joey"

or the Killers' "Somebody Told Me."

bill that's such an infantile stance it's like...v. heavy infant mentality there man

you're actually surprised?

willis is probably OTM, or maybe i just want her to be because i love 'under my thumb' so much.

Maybe you'd prefer i said this instead:

Di Meola's intrigue with complex rhythmic syncopation, combined with provocative lyrical melodies always incorporate sophisticated harmony at the root of these serious but heartfelt works is central and foremost.

say it but with a backbeat

and marimba

I don't see anything wrong with the bitter revenge fantasy, but I don't think there's a history of men being expected to speak only when spoken to, and I'm having trouble imagining a woman describing a man as a siamese cat. On the other hand, I can totally imagine a song like Wild World with "a woman sadly warning her ex-lover that he's too innocent for the big bad world out there." I don't get why she thinks that's unlikely.

i'm not gonna second guess something she wrote 8 years before i was born

knee-jerk "political correctness" is fucking stifling.

― nicky lo-fi, Friday, September 28, 2012 9:19 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol @

Like honestly using the term ”political correctness” in earnest automatically invalidates anything you say

at least he stopped short of "political correctness run amok"

If not for political correctness run amok the stones might have been able to write that fm classic rock radio staple about slaves being raped they always dreamed of....

I think they're recording something like that for the end credits on the new Tarantino movie.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

love both of em to death--and probably like sticky fingers more than any individual neil young album--but man neil in particular really appeals to me, maybe because i'm ultimately a headphones kinda dude

Like honestly using the terms like "misogynist" without giving examples is self-righteous and pointless. I get it already some people on the internet are just way better human beings than most...

Neil Young of course, who d'ya think I am? Stoopid?

Like honestly using the terms like "misogynist" without giving examples is self-righteous and pointless. I get it already some people on the internet are just way better human beings than most...

― nicky lo-fi, Monday, October 1, 2012 6:20 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the stones are assholes and treated women like shit, i think they are great but denying that seems stupid. brian was such an asshole! read about him! he was mean to women and treated them like shit!

s. I get it already some people on the internet are just way better human beings than most...

― nicky lo-fi, Monday, October 1, 2012 6:20 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

where did i say i was better than anyone?

i'm not better than anyone

the stones are a great band but they weren't good ppl

i hope that isnt an elliptical confession that you treat women like shit m@tt! xp

I just thought it was interesting question--is Under My Thumb more or less sexist/misogynistic than the more sugary ballads of the era that constantly make no bones about infantilizing the desired female Other or making bald assertion of desire to ownership--but it sounds like Ellen Willis already posed and answered that question...

i hope that isnt an elliptical confession that you treat women like shit m@tt! xp

― alpha flighticles (Drugs A. Money), Monday, October 1, 2012 11:12 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha oops i would hope not!

if i'm not a more chill bro & gentlemen then brian jones i'm in real trouble.

lol i was just kidding around anyways

no i knew

i mean i *get* what you're saying but it's hard to separate some of the stones songs from everything i've ever read about them as ppl

that said..."under my thumb" is just a stunning song, reprehensible sentiment or not...the marimba line....i've kinda come around on brian in a big way as a musician and his era of the band, i don't necessarily think they are hands-down "better" after him like i used to think

We should do Young vs Dylan after this so I can make it up to Neil for voting for Mick'n'Keith

it's hard to separate some of the stones songs from everything i've ever read about them as ppl

^watts always seemed like a decent guy.lost some respect for richards after the anecdote in his book where he went after a guy with a knife for stealing his chili recipe or something like that.

Wyman's philandering is the stuff of legend.

lol at watts' chili recipe. the end of richards' bio where he starts rattling off his recipes is kind of an amazing surreal thing.

where did i say i was better than anyone?

i'm not better than anyone

― farte blanche (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, October 1, 2012 4:06 PM

if i'm not a more chill bro & gentlemen then brian jones i'm in real trouble.

― farte blanche (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, October 1, 2012 4:18 PM

lol. I didn't mean to direct my previous comment about being self-righteous at you, but I do think those two quotes (6 minutes apart) are funny in some way.

I'm just saying I would like to see examples or more of an explanation when people call stuff misogynist, or call people "bad" or "assholes."

To me "under my thumb" is about the changing dynamics of a relationship. It could just as well be sung by a lesbian, singing about her lover.
I don't see the hated of women in the song.

i can't believe people are still talking about this when there are so many other things to talk about
neil young's breakfast is more interesting/innaresting than having the same conversation about under my thumb for the 400th time

is there a place you can go where you order "Neil Young Special" and they give you some fried eggs and country ham? there should be.

neil young's breakfast is more interesting/innaresting than having the same conversation about under my thumb for the 400th time

too bad the same can't be said for his music.

damnnnnn

Shit sandwich

"nice zing"

"too bad the same can't be said for stale punchlines"

eh, I thought I put at least a neil young level effort into that

hey at least everyone has stopped opining about misogyny. bring on the bad jokes.

neil young was on fresh air (again) today talking about his new book/record and of course terry gross asked him some stupid questions
my favorite was about how he was advised not to drop acid by his doctor, and she asked him if he followed his doctor's orders
he was like, "uh yeah, i did. i don't need to hallucinate any more than i already do" (i'm paraphrasing here)
then she asked him what he hallucinated about and he said that he freaks out in the grocery store from the overwhelming abundance of things and colors
again, a paraphrase, but he has this really amazing way in interviews of being totally frank and totally oblique at the same time that i think is really amusing when the questions are that dumb

I bet he would have taken the interview more seriously if the interviewer were a man. Pig.

Yeah I guess so. I'd feel differently about this topic if I were a woman.

man they need to get someone other than terry gross to interview him. the last one was kind of terrible too!

terry gross is always terrible

I haven't listened to Terry Gross in a while, but the last interview I heard was with Smokey Robinson. She was dropping her g's in a really annoying way, and Smokey sounded like he was getting a little annoyed with it towards the end (a rare feat; dude is notoriously easygoing).

smokey robinson might be in a bad mood because he frightens children these days, though

http://cdn.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/smokey-robinson.jpg

http://s1.evcdn.com/images/block250/I0-001/004/305/148-0.jpeg_/smokey-robinson-48.jpeg

why is everyone running away

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

he was dropping her g's in a really annoying way, and Smokey sounded like he was getting a little annoyed with it towards the end

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=157769&stc=1&d=1282702907

didn't Neil deny knowing who the Sex Pistols were in his last interview with TG? she is so bad.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BSXymvGAYM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUcyfKESts

0:30-0:40

neil young - george bush
rolling stones - al gore

Love Neil, one of my all-time faves, but voted Stones because Charlie Watts.

thanks for reminding me how awful Al Gore was.

yeah wow that clip is unreal, forgot about that....GWB actually has a pretty awesome moment there when gore steps up beside him and he's like "uh...hey"

just like that moment in this poll when the rolling stones were all up in neil young's face, but neil was like "hey, look out"

Look at that...I called 74-57 for the Rolling Stones, figuring they'd get most of the silent vote. So who would Neil lose to? Beatles and/or Dylan? (This is not meant as a poll suggestion.)

beatles would beat neil

he might beat dylan on ilm

yeah probably would. which is why i'm hoping we don't get that poll.

Neil would not lose to whoever on ilm imo, esp not The Beatles

nah the beatles would bring out the lurkers like a mofo and british ppl

lurkers - maybe. british ppl - they should have been here already with the Stones, so..

neil vs. radiohead amirite

and people who think The Beatles made better music than Neil Young (aka sane people) xpost

did we ever do steely dan vs neil young?

talk talk vs. quicksilver messenger service?

my dad rock can beat up your dad rock

it's grandpa rock now i guess

"people who think The Beatles made better music than Neil Young (aka sane people)"

asking too much for ilm

eh i would vote for neil just because i've spent a lot more time listening to him and it's more personal to me, like tonight's the night means a lot more to me than any beatles record

but the beatles are great i think they are one of the top bands on the scene

i bet 'surfin bird' would beat neil young, also anything else

stones > neil > dylan > beatles, as far as polls go, though obv all deserve to be immortalized in statue form

Only Steely Dan. And maybe Bohannon.

I like the stones and Neil more than Beatles but not sure how I stand re stones vs Neil

I am probably neil beatles stones dylan

I wonder how Neil would fare against Fleetwood Mac