Portishead POLL: Dummy vs. S/T vs. Third

third

Dummy

For me Dummy is one of very few albums where the band nails their aesthetic so thoroughly that there really isn't a single misplaced note on the entire thing.

needs live album, even if it is a live... album

I adored Dummy when it came out, and my Mum thought I took drugs when she heard me playing it. (I did).

But Third is incredible. A wonderful A+ return, better than the debut, better than most of the records released in the same decade.

Third all the way.

The only other I'd even consider would be the live one, but I wouldn't consider it that long.

third, but agree that PNYC should be here

st

Dummy is aces full-stop, but has some thin production in spots. It has aged just fine, even despite the cavalcade of imitators in its wake who bit their style & drove that particular sound into the ground.

Third is the strongest collection of songs, overall, and I am having a very hard time not voting for it. Quite simply, the best and most unexpected comeback record EVER.

Thing is, s/t is the one I find myself returning to most often, mainly b/c I just love how it SOUNDS - the seething, shrill vox that seem channeled through a distant, blown speaker; the consistently (relentlessly?) ominous tone, often bordering on malevolence; the dope ass beatz all over the place

Third, but s/t is totally underrated

Dummy. For me they're a case of diminishing returns over time.

who underrates Dummy?

It's Dummy.

but live @ would be my second choice.

Dummy. For me they're a case of diminishing returns over time.

I disagree, I picked "Third" and "Chase the tear" is probably my favourite song of theirs

Third is just about a perfect album.

Has any other band come out of a nigh-decade hiatus with the best album of their career?

sorry, I thought roseland was '99. full 10 years of hiatus.

Portishead Third Forever

S/T all the way.

Dummy by a mile. Third was decent but it's not even close to as good as Dummy.

Pillbox, otm. I think S/T is unfairly overlooked. Dummy is still pretty excellent, but a little predictable and 'tasteful' at this point. S/T wasn't a dramatic departure from Dummy, but it roughed up the band's edges in a really interesting way. And like Dummy, all the songs are well thought out and executed, and memorable. Third is a different beast altogether, and doesn't cease to impress. I'm still trying to make out how successful it is at accomplishing its goal (however loosely that may be defined). I find S/T more listenable, for sure. Third is difficult, but knocks me off my feet every time I dare listen to it. It's definitely between S/T and Third for me (while Dummy is no slouch).

s/t >> dummy >>>>>>>>>>>> third

They got better with each album. Third is absolutely perfect.

First the worst, s/t the best, Third the one with the hairy chest

S/T. Actually been listening to it a lot lately. I really love the kind of venomous quality her voice has in that first track.

I wonder if the Beth Gibbons solo stuff is on Spotify. A few really good songs on that one, too

I can make a case for voting for any of these, so I'm not voting. All three albums are amazing.

so you're just going to stay home on election day, wallowing in self-doubt and indecision, like beth gibbons

I wonder if the Beth Gibbons solo stuff is on Spotify. A few really good songs on that one, too

― d-_-b (mh), Friday, November 9, 2012 8:34 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I'm pretty sure it is.

Third all the fucking way

Has any other band come out of a nigh-decade hiatus with the best album of their career?

― how's life, Thursday, November 8, 2012 7:47 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think about how amazing this feat was all the time.

third, then s/t, then dummy.

they can go another ten years between albums if it means the next one will be even better imo.

Never quite sure why people think Third is better/best.

It's got a bit more variation within it perhaps (thinking of the contrast between Deep Water and Machine Gun especially), and is progressively heavier and darker than the one before (as that was before the first). I guess there's also the thrill of an act delivering so well after years of doubt. I feel a correlation with Massive Attack in that though there's a mainstream consensus towards the debut, Mezzanine is considered their peak for similar reasons to Third.

What else?

Dummy is the best because of "Mysterons", "Strangers" and "Roads"
S/T is the best because of ""Cowboys", Seven Months" and "Mourning Air"
Third is the best because of "Machine Gun", "Magic Doors" and "Threads"

honestly, the only songs on any of these that I ever skip, and not because I dislike them but because I'm anxious to get to another song on the album, are "Sour Times", "All Mine" and "Deep Water"

oh god, finally noticed your dn

hahaha

o/t, but honestly my first thought when I saw that acronym the other day was "so what is BESS?"

Never quite sure why people think Third is better/best.

Because it's not a trip-hop album

Never quite sure why people think Third is better/best.

It's got a bit more variation within it perhaps (thinking of the contrast between Deep Water and Machine Gun especially), and is progressively heavier and darker than the one before (as that was before the first). I guess there's also the thrill of an act delivering so well after years of doubt. I feel a correlation with Massive Attack in that though there's a mainstream consensus towards the debut, Mezzanine is considered their peak for similar reasons to Third.

What else?

It just really clicks with me beyond what Dummy ever did. It's quite unique. The variation, heaviness, and darkness all help.

Not criticizing trip-hop or w/e but Dummy (which rules obv) is so of a time and place that includes a lot of other bands and influences and ideas, not to mention it's a samples record. Third just is timeless

OTM

I still remember when "Cowboys" first appeared on a CMJ sampler, I think I played it on repeat ten times while yelling "OH MY GOD"

surprised my roommates didn't kick me in the face tbh

Dummy, though I need to dig into Third more

also I was going to make an argument about Portishead carving a distinct niche for themselves in the arena of trip-hop but then I remembered "2 Wicky" by Hooverphonic

hooverphonic, wonder what they're up to

Apparently they released a single in 2010! Who knew?

Outside od The Rip and Machine Gun, cannot get into Third at all. :-(

discounting all third boosters who don't also rep hard for the s/t and dummy

Never quite sure why people think Third is better/best.

Because it's not a trip-hop album

kmt people rethink your life and your choices

THIRD

hooverphonic, wonder what they're up to

hooverphonic w/orchestra just came out two weeks ago lol

third > dummy > s/t

very close

Life rethought and teeth kissed but Third is still a better album and will win this poll

Outside od The Rip and Machine Gun, cannot get into Third at all. :-(

― Leeezzarina Sbarro (Leee), Friday, November 9, 2012 4:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

The Rip id a good track but a wasted opportunity, It should be at least twice as long and intense as it is.

pretty much an impossible poll for me

voted third but it's a tossup

The Rip id a good track but a wasted opportunity, It should be at least twice as long and intense as it is.

Moka got your back a while ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_E1-t6h4ZE

that's good but not what i want. i want it full on and building to insanity for 5 minutes after the premature fade-out.

Jed otm.

Something of what sund4r says rings v true: Dummy is more than a record for me. So much more.

Has any other band come out of a nigh-decade hiatus with the best album of their career?

The Go-Betweens.

disagree with jed, "The Rip" is good b/c it's spare in texture and pat in length. Lots of moments of denial all over the record, whether it's "the song stops right now *snip*" or "this is the part where Beth sings and nowt else but a cello".

As a side note for anyone who's interested there's a lengthy Sound on Sound breakdown of the hows of "Third" and it's very interesting

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov08/articles/portishead.htm

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Dummy, maybe the best album of the 90s.

the thing about Dummy not standing out that much from contemporaries is that a bunch of them were actively copying it IIRC

This was easy. Dummy, no contest.

Best Phead song, though?

HALF DAY CLOSING

Makes hairs stand up on the back of my neck every time.

(To be fair, I owe Third another shot. Hated it at time of release, slagged it in a lengthy review, put it away and forgot about it.)

They have SO MANY undeniable songs

I mean... Strangers, It Could Be Sweet, Wandering Star, Numb, Roads, Glory Box, Cowboys, Undenied, Half Day Closing, Over, Humming, Mourning Air, Seven Months, Silence, The Rip, Plastic, We Carry On, Machine Gun, Threads, Small, Magic Doors...

so fucking good, every single one of these songs, and the songs I didn't list are also so fucking good

btw I recommend listening to Half Day Closing and Seven Months, then going back to Third; first thing you'll notice is how their massive departure isn't nearly as much of a departure as it seemed until you get to Deep Water/Machine Gun

if i had to pick only one it'd be "cowboys." or "the rip." or...fuck.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

kinda surprising

Surprised to see 'Third' so acclaimed--but definitely tops for me, too. I liked Portishead in the 90s, but never would've guessed they could produce 'Third' (similarly never saw the Flaming Lips' fantastic 'Embryonic' coming).

Not that surprising, really. It won the 2008 ILM poll and came in very highly in the 2005-09 poll.

Just checked..."very highly" means #2. So yeah, ILM likes Third.

I see why the results came out the way they did, still it kinda hurts to see the awesomeness that is s/t end up with so little votes.

14 votes is not little.

"The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society" won the Kinks Album poll with 12 votes.

Not that surprising, really. It won the 2008 ILM poll and came in very highly in the 2005-09 poll.

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:20 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah, nice!

I'd like to see the results of a poll that asked if you heard Dummy in 1994 or after 1994. I can't imagine anyone voting for Third if they were into Dummy at the time of release. It made such an impact at the time. So much more than Third did when it was released.

I saw them live in 96 (i think) and again on the Third tour and they were absolutely amazing both times. Can't wait to see them again.

I can't imagine anyone voting for Third if they were into Dummy at the time of release. It made such an impact at the time. So much more than Third did when it was released.

I heard Dummy quite a lot in 1994 and was as unmoved by it then as I am now. Third blew my brains out.

I heard, bought and liked both 'Dummy' and 'Portishead' at the time of release. Probably acted as a back-door (subconsciously) into types of music I'd later come to love, along with contemporaneous acts like Stereolab, Tortoise, Beck. But it didn't light me on fire. 'Third,' by contrast, was clearly formed by all the music I (and perhaps the band) had come to love in the intervening years, so my appreciation of it was less imbued with opening up new possibilities. But, along with Beak, it just really hits a sweet spot for me--and now seems to have a more timeless quality than the trip-hop work.

third falls squarely into the admire-but-never-want-to-listen-to category for me, i find it quite emotionally monochrome and dour. both dummy and the s/t dominated my listening in the '90s and hold up when i go back to them.

When I hear Dummy, I Feel Like A Dummy

I was really, really into Dummy when it came out, and s/t as well. "All Mine" is still probably my favourite track of theirs-- I will always get the chills on that crazily dissonant "to hold youuuu" pre-chorus--

But my listening world as a teenager got saturated with the sound of record surface noise and 60s soundtracks sampled to MPCs, and I heard that style of music-making transform in real-time from "Protection" into St. Etienne and Zero 7.

The reason I rate Third over the first two records is simply that it sounds live-- even when it is not-- it conveys more clearly the sound of three music-makers working together on a recording, which is what I'm drawn to these days

all three of these albums are amazing and essential

Also, "monochrome and dour" is the way I eat and dress and the books I read, so there's that, too.

I remember the first time I heard "Over" I was like "this is exactly the best song I've always wanted" and then the scratchy drums came in and I'm like OK, not the best any more but still cool

Then "Third" is basically an entire album of the first minute of "Over", me gusta

all three of these albums are amazing and essential

^ can't be expressed enough

Did youse lot get the "Third" box?

i chose the magnificent vengeance of s/t

can only concur with lex re third - triphop hardmanning itt is laughable when it is patently the wallower's pick

I heard that style of music-making transform in real-time from "Protection" into St. Etienne and Zero 7.

I've never heard St. Etienne, but I remember this too.

(xp not to say i don't like it of course)

"all mine" = the bond theme that portishead were made for but that never happened

With Dan on the 'all three please' front. Unsurprisingly.

man you all should play s/t today, it's perfect

i'm playing it right now in honour!

I tried to figure out the changes to "All Mine" yesterday, failed, listened to the album instead
It rules, I love the video for "Over" too

I can't imagine anyone voting for Third if they were into Dummy at the time of release. It made such an impact at the time. So much more than Third did when it was released.

I get where you're coming from on this, but the "holy hell what a comeback" factor surely worked in Third's favour as well

triphop hardmanning itt is laughable

I don't get this, there's no theoretical kicking against the notion of "triphop" itt. Or if there was, I thought a deeper implication was being communicated... the degradation of that aesthetic over the latter half of the 90s into hotel lobby music and car commercial licences

Hair salon music.

Morcheeba has much to answer for

Just read something about "Dummy," pointing out that for an ostensible trip-hop touchstone, it doesn't have a lot of "hop" to it. I think that's sort of what sets it apart from the other playing-in-the-background-while-you-shop-for-jeans chill stuff. "Dummy" is also an example of one of those debuts that finds the act so fully formed and perfectly realized that future releases have all been sort of icing on the cake, even on the days I like s/t or "Third" better.

Morcheeba's second album is pretty strong, iirc.

Voted for Dummy because of its out-of-nowhere quality but this is just a perfect body of work. There's not a single thing about these three albums that I don't like.

I loved hearing the Dummy material played live on the Third tour - so much heavier and scarier.

I can't imagine anyone voting for Third if they were into Dummy at the time of release. It made such an impact at the time. So much more than Third did when it was released.

Why is this hard to imagine? I loved Dummy at the time but Third just resonates more strongly with me. Since when do we vote based on how much an album makes an impact the time of their release?

"its release"

Portishead might be one of the only bands I like whose singer frequently irritates me.

I'm probably heading back toward a good light scotch soon. This Wild Turkey 101 habit is undoing me.

Just read something about "Dummy," pointing out that for an ostensible trip-hop touchstone, it doesn't have a lot of "hop" to it.

what does this even mean

Ha, I was wondering the same thing.

aside from "lol they're white", I mean

that it doesn't bump in a pleasingly inoffensive way?

i mean, i see what they're getting at even if it's clumsily phrased

It's a puzzling comment because Dummy's so plainly rooted in hip hop - US rappers and producers fell head over heels for it.

I'm probably heading back toward a good light scotch soon. This Wild Turkey 101 habit is undoing me.

― under minnesota shakedown (mh), Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

otm

Ha.

Xposting, I think they followed it up by pointing out the stylistic breadth of the album, from spy themes to '50s jazz and soul stuff?

I can't imagine anyone voting for Third if they were into Dummy at the time of release.

Bought Dummy upon release, just think Third is the better album. Songs are more diverse, both in writing as the sounds used. There is a definite analogue wave sound in the root of the album, which I adore (and which reminds me of Silver Apples). The gloomy guitars add to it too. And Gibbons never carried so much despair in her voice before. I always considered Dummy to be a pretty and melancholic hiphop album (before I learned of the word triphop). I also think that if you like one song of the album, you will like all the others too. Third is an ugly beast, doing what it damn well pleases, and it turned out I find that so much more appealing and fascinating. That the group could release something that great after such a long hiatus adds to my admiration too.

I loved hearing the Dummy material played live on the Third tour - so much heavier and scarier.

got to witness 'Roads' four years ago and, tho obviously not heavy or scary, probably my favourite live experience of a song ever

that it doesn't bump in a pleasingly inoffensive way?

i mean, i see what they're getting at even if it's clumsily phrased

practically every song on Dummy aside from "Sour Times" and "Glory Box" is languid love affair with subwoofers (ESPECIALLY "Strangers", "It Could Be Sweet" and "Numb")

I think they followed it up by pointing out the stylistic breadth of the album, from spy themes to '50s jazz and soul stuff?

... that makes even less sense, especially given the people who'd already been mining jazz and soul for beat inspiration in the previous years (jazz alone, you have The Low End Theory, Jazzmatazz and both "Rebirth of Slick" and "Cantaloop" cracking the top ten)

There's certainly an argument to be made about Portishead removing the "bap" from "boom-bap"; most of their catalog softens or removes the snare hit from the beat, which is part of what gives their music a more languid vibe and is also a huge part of why "Machine Gun" was such a surprise. I don't think "that for an ostensible trip-hop touchstone, it doesn't have a lot of 'hop' to it" is making that argument.

really surprised there wasn't more love for the s/t

the only thing that can touch Third is the scratching on "Only You"

I loved hearing the Dummy material played live on the Third tour - so much heavier and scarier.

"Wandering Star" on the tour appearances the other year -- completely stripped down -- was pretty astonishing.

Did youse lot get the "Third" box?

Dang, don't know what this is. . . I assume not more music than what's on the normal album? Gotta look it up now. . .

But my listening world as a teenager got saturated with the sound of record surface noise and 60s soundtracks sampled to MPCs, and I heard that style of music-making transform in real-time from "Protection" into St. Etienne and Zero 7.

This is some wrong-revisionism right here. Saint Etienne's "Filthy" came out in 1991, and they had basically gotten all of their trip hop tendencies out of their system by 1994.

Also the story of trip hop's development is not nearly the straightforward "innovative --> populist --> MOR" narrative being implied. Not least b/c Protection is one of the most MOR albums ever.

At any rate Dummy bangs pretty hard IMO, a lot of those beats aren't that distant from contemporaneous gangsta rap (thinking stuff like Ready To Die and mid-90s Mobb Deep).

I can't remember if I voted but probably would have gone for S/T.

Ah ha, I meant St. Germain.

And I was citing "Protection" as the genesis of MOR MPC-based music, sorry if I wasn't clear

Ah, yr post makes much more sense now! Although I guess I don't really think of St Germain as being trip hop.

Ironically it's possibly the case that, to the extent that there was a blanding-out at work, it was kinda due to the rise of the notion of "downtempo" owing to producers' desire to distance themselves from, like, Sneaker Pimps.

iirc Zero 7 seemed to cop way more from Air's first album than anything by Portishead.

Also K&D and Rae & Christian and etc. etc. Really any two dudes making instrumental music.

i unashamedly still love that first zero 7 album but it exists on another level to portishead while sharing (borrowing?) similar tropes.

(stealing?)

Oh! I wasn't trying to make a this-turns-to-that flowchart of influence by any means, I'm just talking about the teenage listening experience.

Did anyone ever actually have the experience of hearing Dummy in a cafe? I feel like I did but maybe I just absorbed that idea from the general History of the Decline & Fall of the Trip Hop Empire.

Definitely remember the actual lived experience of the St Germain album and Naked Music comps in hairdressers.

One of the most telling manifestations of 90s revivalism is I've heard Odelay about four times in clothes stores in just the past two months or so.

I only remember hearing Dummy when I played it on my stereo, when friends played it on theirs, or at clubs (one of my fondest memories is watching a super cute girl at Lamb/Gus Gus dancing to "It Could Be Sweet" while the bass bludgeoned everyone in front of the stage)

lol 18 years later I'm still annoyed they never released "Strangers" as a single, I just realized

I haven't heard Dummy itself while out but in the finest retail locations. If we're talking about the decline of trip-hop, Mezzanine was where I got off the Bristol bus (and into Cocteau Twins instead)

xps: it's okay flamboyant goon tie, Zero 7 totally got sold as trip-hop/downtempo.

fgti does that mean you missed 100th Window, more importantly and crucially, Heligoland, which was one of my favorite albums of 2010?

xp No sweat. Talking about "how record surface noise and Blue Break Beats turned me into a rock snob" is pretty much indefensible but I was a fucking teenager

Ha yup, I've never heard those records

omg you really should

I mean, 100th Window is kind of "for the heads only" but Heligoland is AMAZING and required listening, easily the equal of the first three Massive Attack albums

I wasn't the only one, either! I bought 10000 Hz Legend on a whim and was like "guys no wait this is really good" to friends who weren't listening to anything but The Flying Lizards and Can.

I'll check them out, thanks DJP

Heligoland is a great great record. totally slept on, I guess no-one cared about Massive Attack that year.

I CARED

i still need to check out Heligoland. I wasn't super into 100th Window, which cooled my curiosity I guess - tho I totally dig the track w/ Hope Sandoval which accompanies the the intro credits to Luther (the BBC Drama).

Wandering Star was the highlight for me as well during their tour for Third. Truly astonishing. There's a great video of a performance on French tv *maybe* on youtube. Anyway, I guess i'm alone in carrying the love for Dummy based on how deeply that album impacted me at the time. I was well into Mo Wax/Ninja Tune at the time and Dummy was the perfect 'songs' based release for those more 'tracky' tunes i was digging.

Third is a great album, I played it yesterday to refresh my ears, but I don't have the memories and life experiences tied to it like I do with Dummy. It's just one of a thousand albums I heard that year but I never felt the need to play it again after it finished. There were entire nights when I listened to nothing but Dummy. It's a shame I played it so much actually, my vinyl copy is filthy, crackly and battered.

It's supposed to sound like that.

On relistening to s/t I'm just remembering how monochrome the drums are, which is cool, keeps the album in a single universe. The theatrical performance from Beth is cool but I prefer her "middle class middle English woman having a depressive episode" turn on Third.

Did I read somewhere she married an american art museum dude in Ohio or something, or am I thinking of someone else?

"middle class middle English woman having a depressive episode"

this is lol but seriously when the doom bass comes in on 'threads' and she's singing 'i'm so unsure', sounds like that depressive episode has expanded out to engulf the universe

and it's worse with the 'i'm tired and worn' coda on the live version.

boom-bap minus the bap >>> trip-hop minus the hop

I guess I've always heard Portishead's relationship to hip-hop as similar to Jimmy Cliff's relationship to reggae on "Many Rivers to Cross." Is that song directly related to reggae? Yes. Reggae singer, reggae soundtrack, reggae musicians, but ... not reggae. Same with something like "No Woman, No Cry." At least that's what I'm feeling in theory from stuff like "Sour Times," "It Could Be Sweet," "It's a Fire" and "Roads." Or, for that matter, from a lot of recent Sade.

By the way, best use of Portishead ever might have been in the lost indie vampire gem "Nadja."

I don't agree with boom-bap minus bap any way. Rimshots are the loudest thing in the mix on those first two records.

not on my stereo (yay subwoofers)

Yeah, I love the low-end of "Dummy."