Who is the most-famous least-popular musician of all time?

Who has the highest inverse ratio of fame:musical popularity?

Someone who is far more well-known as a celebrity than they are for their music... omitting people who have relatively unpopular musical careers, but were already famous for something else (like Juliette Lewis or reality show stars who release a shitty single or something).

I can only think of Pete Doherty off-hand - at least in North American, most people who know who he is probably couldn't name a song.

people whose music is popular in one country but are merely famous w/o the popularity in another country prob shouldn't count either

kenny g?

Maybe John Lydon? My mom and grandparents would know who he is, but I'm sure they've never knowingly heard a note of the Sex Pistols or PiL.

kenny g is a fucking legend, at least in china. he is definitely heard everywhere, especially in schools, where his music (including the legendary hit "going home") is often played as an indicator that everyone should go the hell home already

John Cage?

i was thinking boy george, at least for the younger folk.

Pete Best

Jessica Simpson?

Iggy Pop or Ozzy Osborne

nah, boy george is chill - love the first two culture club records.

OH - Enya?

i was thinking boy george, at least for the younger folk.

Mick Jagger? How many young people know more than a couple of Stones songs?

some "one hit wonder" for sure

^^^ Crazy Frog

Pete Yorn

thinking Iggy might be the right answer here.

GG Allin

Iggy Pop and John Cage are good answers.

phillip glass

Gary Glitter

Tiny Tim. Everybody knows who he is but nobody owns any of his records

Jessica Simpson is OTM I don't know a single one of her songs

who is he?
xpost

I don't think Jessica Simpson counts b/c she is far more well known as a reality show personality & actress than for her music.

she had a bunch of hits before the reality tv and movies though

Yoko Ono

good call, Yoko's probably the one

Bob Geldof

In the UK, Peter Andre

Tiny Tim? He's famous for having a high voice and playing ukelele, punch line to many jokes from the 60s-80s, probably not recently. Yoko Ono is a good call but she's pretty much the definition of "famous for something else". Bob Geldof is pretty otm

Jessica Simpson was the requisite "Third artist" that would get lumped in with Britney and Christina when listing the popular female teen pop artists of that era.

britney spears (seriously!)

P Diddy

Billy Idol from about 1993 on

Billy Ray Cyrus

i feel like this thread is straddling 2 different definitions "famous but unpopular musicians" -- people who are successful recording artists who have sold a lot of records but are divisive and have many vocal detractors, and people who are famous and in the music industry but don't have hits that are familiar to many people, who might dislike their music but are mostly unaware or indifferent.

the thread starter seemed to be going for the latter definition and most people ITT are going with the former.

think there's quite a few who have initial success specifically in music and then become 'personalities' or whatever and don't have any hits for 20 years.

kinda think Kiss is moving in this direction? do they have any songs that are widely known at this point? I never hear them on classic rock radio even

Yoko Ono is a good call but she's pretty much the definition of "famous for something else".

But that seems to be what the OP is looking for: Someone who is far more well-known as a celebrity than they are for their music. Brio was making an exemption for people who were already famous for something other than music before they attempted music, which is not the case with Yoko Ono. She and John Cage seem like the best answers to me so far. Philip Glass almost seems like the opposite: millions of people have probably heard his music on a film score without knowing who he is.

Don't they still play "Rock and Roll All Nite"?

yoko is definitely the answer. ppl who don't know a thing about the last 60 years of music have probably heard yoko ono jokes.

doland trump

I don't ever hear "Rock and Roll All Nite" on the radio but yeah, that's the best answer.

Ottawa's Chez 106 played "Rock and Roll All Nite" this morning: http://www.chez106.com/on-air/playlists-charts/#

xposts!

ppl who don't know a thing about the last 60 years of music have probably heard yoko ono jokes.

Yeah, "woman who broke up the Beatles" is probably more widely known than "guy who wrote a piece with nothing in it".

Ted Nugent

Charles Manson

I was also going to say Jessica Simpson. I think she was first famous for being a musician and that was even the ostensible reason for her getting the reality show.
I would put Yoko Ono in the category of "already famous for something" else by which the OP excludes others. She became famous for her involvement with John Lennon, not for being a musician.

What about people who were really musically popular at some point and aren't anymore but are still a household name? Like maybe Liberace.

feel like this thread is straddling 2 different definitions "famous but unpopular musicians" -- people who are successful recording artists who have sold a lot of records but are divisive and have many vocal detractors, and people who are famous and in the music industry but don't have hits that are familiar to many people, who might dislike their music but are mostly unaware or indifferent.

― some dude, Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:10 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the thread starter seemed to be going for the latter definition and most people ITT are going with the former. I think Yoko slips under the line because she started making music (or experimental recordings) anyway at exactly the same time she became famous as Lennon's girlfriend. They recorded "Two Virgins" the first night they spent together, didn't they?

― some dude, Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:11 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But that seems to be what the OP is looking for: Someone who is far more well-known as a celebrity than they are for their music. Brio was making an exemption for people who were already famous for something other than music before they attempted music, which is not the case with Yoko Ono. She and John Cage seem like the best answers to me so far. Philip Glass almost seems like the opposite: millions of people have probably heard his music on a film score without knowing who he is.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:20 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thanks - you guys are saying it better than I did

shit, oops...

I meant to also say at the end there

"I think Yoko slips under the line because she started making music (or experimental recordings) anyway at exactly the same time she became famous as Lennon's girlfriend. They recorded "Two Virgins" the first night they spent together, didn't they?"

but I somehow inserted in the middle of some dude's post

Don't people remember Jessica Simpson's version of "These Boots Are Made for Knockin'"?

More people know Liberace's music than Yoko Ono's, I would have thought?

xpost

Charo. Lock thread.

didn't yoko work with john cage at some point pre-lennon? i'm drawing a blank on any actual recording she made, though.

"I think Yoko slips under the line because she started making music (or experimental recordings) anyway at exactly the same time she became famous as Lennon's girlfriend.

She was heavily involved with music for years before she met Lennon: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0648780/bio

Many of her conceptual scores and performances are from the early 60s.

e.g. "Earth Piece"

Courtney Love

huh, didn't know she did music that early, Yoko's got this locked down then I think

I think I was using the criteria that the candidates for this question became famous as musicians, not for something else while happening to be musicians, that their output didn't have that much impact or influence and was possibly small, that most people know they're musicians while not knowing or liking any of their music, and that they sustain(ed) fame for years and years without producing any(more) successful music.

David Hasselhoff

More people know Liberace's music than Yoko Ono's, I would have thought?

Oh yeah, I think Yoko is definitely the best answer so far. It's just fun to list other people.

Figures from another era like Liberace or Lawrence Welk are interesting because there's probably a certain age range where almost everybody knows their names but almost nobody likes their music.

http://wfmu.tumblr.com/post/31523838412/john-cage-david-tudor-yoko-ono-toshiro-mayuzumi

John Cage, David Tudor, Yoko Ono, Toshiro Mayuzumi at Tokyo’s Sogetsu Art Center, 1962

Dudley Moore?

I think I was using the criteria that the candidates for this question became famous as musicians, not for something else while happening to be musicians, that their output didn't have that much impact or influence and was possibly small, that most people know they're musicians while not knowing or liking any of their music, and that they sustain(ed) fame for years and years without producing any(more) successful music.

That seems like an impossibly narrow category. Who would even qualify? I don't think it's actually possible for somebody to get fame solely as a musician while their music is unpopular, let alone sustain that popularity for years.

Figures from another era like Liberace or Lawrence Welk are interesting because there's probably a certain age range where almost everybody knows their names but almost nobody likes their music.

Ha, these are two of the only Western musical artists my parents are very familiar with.

Right but do you own any of their albums? Does anyone on ILM?

haha i inherited two lawrence welk albums from my ex -- i actually kinda love them both.

'them both' meaning both of those albums, i'm pretty sure i've never actually heard a liberace song.

Wasn't Yoko more of an avant garde artist than a musician, per se?

Right but do you own any of their albums?

Heck, no. I was agreeing with your "certain age range" comment.

Liberace just played classical piano right?

I know I've seen him on the Muppet Show, but the music was not very memorable.

Ono definitely blurred the lines but she formally studied music, composed what she regarded as 'scores', and performed as a vocalist. From Grove Music Online:

In 1953, she moved to New York to attend Sarah Lawrence College where she studied music and philosophy. Ono married ichiyanagi Toshi in 1956. In the early 1960s the couple’s Manhattan apartment became the site of many performance events; several of the artists who performed there later became associated with Fluxus. Dubbed “the high priestess of the happening,” Ono was a pioneer in the conceptual art movement. She once claimed that “the only sound that exists … is the sound of the mind.” Her conceptual scores, described by George Maciunas as “Neo-Haiku Theater,” often consist of only brief instructions. Earth Piece (1963), for example, instructs the performer to “listen to the sound of the earth turning.” A specialist in extended vocal techniques, Ono performed self-composed pieces that featured her virtuosic vocal exploration of screams, sighs, moans, gasps, and multi-phonics.

xposts to kornrulez

That seems like an impossibly narrow category. Who would even qualify? I don't think it's actually possible for somebody to get fame solely as a musician while their music is unpopular, let alone sustain that popularity for years.

May I introduce to some songs called "Chocolate Rain", "What What (In The Butt)", "Trololololololololo Lololololo" and "Chacarron Macarron"? You're basically describing meme artists (see also: "212" and "Gucci Gucci", lol)

well, how do you determine that someone's "music is unpopular" while their music video is racking up millions upon millions of hits? "Friday" was not admired as a good song, but it was a very popular song in the sense that many people voluntarily listened to it and, however they choose to justify that, enjoyed the experience.

xp
Yeah, I'm not sure how to approach that without getting into a boring debate over the definition of popularity.

Also most of those artists aren't particularly famous, and it's arguable whether success from a funny youtube video exactly qualifies as solely musical fame. So the point seems to stand: a musician who achieves widespread fame despite the fact that their music is widely hated probably became famous for extramusical reasons.

that's all right, some dude is ready to be boring with me

I think the total lack of followup points towards those songs as being treated as spectacle rather than music, especially given that you almost always hear about them in the context of the video (the biggest takeaway from "Chocolate Rain", for example, is "I move away from the mic to breathe in")

and even allowing for the fact that I live a lot of my life in a lol-Internet bubble, I see a lot of these things appearing in my mainstream entertainment (well okay, in The Soup, South Park, Family Guy and Robot Chicken) so I'm not sure you can say they're that obscure

From GMO again on Liberace:

His programmes included arrangements of classical and popular works designed to show off his keyboard technique, with extensive use of elaborate chromatic harmonies and decorative arpeggios. His own compositions include Rhapsody by Candlelight and Boogie-Woogie Variations. Liberace’s last public performance took place at Radio City Music Hall on 3 November 1986. He appeared in the films Sincerely Yours (1955), The Loved One (1965) and When the Boys Meet the Girls (1965

this is yoko

no it isn't

hi yoko

loved you on that last Basement Jaxx album

Sorry guys

Yoko is famous for being Mrs. John Lennon not for being a musician

Liberace is famous for being a sparkly gay pianist and for no other reason

Yoko is famous for being Mrs. John Lennon not for being a musician

yoko's music is essential to her fame! no one except beatles fans knows or gives a damn who married george or ringo.

No way is Yoko's music essential to her fame

She married John Lennon not fucking Ringo Starr

hahaha

"so strange, how everyone knew John's wife and Paul's wife but no one knew George's or Ringo's; it must be because they were musicians"

The thread-starter themself has already said that Ono is a good answer. The person doesn't have to be famous because of their music.

The Loved One is such an amazing movie

So yeah, just comparing Tay Zonday and Yoko Ono on Google Trends and youtube views, it's pretty clear that Chocolate Rain is vastly more popular than anything Ono ever did but Ono is far more famous than Zonday. I think those meme artists create widely popular songs without becoming very famous themselves, and if they do become famous it's most likely not very long lasting and mostly related to TV appearances and other extra-musical stuff. It's almost the exact opposite phenomenon from the thread title.

OK sure, but if you ask any random what they think about when they think about Jessica Simpson they might say "pop singer", and Liberace they might say "pianist", but if you ask about Yoko Ono they'll say "broke up the Beatles" or "married John Lennon" or even "War is over!" or "Imagine Peace" before they say "She sings on give peace a chance" or do any wild ululations

"so strange, how everyone knew John's wife and Paul's wife but no one knew George's or Ringo's; it must be because they were musicians"

It kind of was! Quick, name Lennon's first wife.

Cynthia

Maybe it's not part of the criteria of the OP, but I thought we were looking for at least some causal connection between the music and the fame so we couldn't just name the most famous person who happened to have once recorded an unsuccessful album or been in an unknown band or something that had nothing to do with how or why they became famous.
For example, referring back to the OP, if the reality star had happened to release the shitty single before getting the reality show but it had nothing to do with them getting on the show, would they then qualify because they weren't "already" famous for something else? Or, if we found out Juliette Lewis was also in a band before and not just after she started acting in movies?

Was there one before Cynthia?

2xpost

I think you'd get down to "Bill Clinton plays the sax" faster than "Yoko Ono is a singer"
And if "what came first" is criteria, Bill was playing sax before he was president

Well, if Yoko Ono had been a groupie or supermodel, would she be regarded the same way? I thought part of the myth was that this strange avant-garde artist/composer was luring Lennon away from his legendary pop band.

yoko being a 'weird singer' who screamed a lot and made funny noises is an essential part of her legend. ask anyone you know what they know about yoko ono and they're at least 50% as likely to say something along those lines as they are 'broke up the beatles.'

I still say that if a musician is widely famous but their music is very unpopular (nobody has heard it, haven't sold any records, etc) then by definition their fame has to have come from something else.

And if somebody achieves William Hung style fame for music that is universally hated, they're not really going to stay famous for very long.

She's not famous for being Lennon's wife. She's famous for 'breaking up the Beatles' and her artistic career plays a role there.

xpost to self

Also wk OTM

pls insert hyphens to "William Hung style fame" where appropriate
xp to myself

Even when Ono was parodied on The Simpsons, her conceptual art was parodied.

case closed: she must not be popular if she was parodied on the simpsons

yoko being a 'weird singer' who screamed a lot and made funny noises is an essential part of her legend. ask anyone you know what they know about yoko ono and they're at least 50% as likely to say something along those lines as they are 'broke up the beatles.'

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:00 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm

case closed: she must not be popular if she was parodied on the simpsons

huh? her music is not popular, but she's famous.

? My point was just that her artistic work is enough of a part of her legend to be referenced on a mainstream TV show. xpost to Mr Que; what wk said

I still say that if a musician is widely famous but their music is very unpopular (nobody has heard it, haven't sold any records, etc) then by definition their fame has to have come from something else.

Not necessarily. The reason I mentioned Tiny Tim, even if he isn't so famous, was b/c literally nobody I know owns a Tiny Tim record but most people could say "plays ukelele" "has a high voice" "Tiptoe thru the tulips". It's a case of a musician becoming a punchline, or synonymous with something else... Dolly Parton with big boobs, Madonna with "degeneration of our moral fibre!", for example, even if those are obv not the right answer

The first Tiny Tim album is great!

yah I LOVE TINY TIM.

But yeah, Tiny Tim might be the closest example of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DEoOdcYKbc

xposts

agree - yoko's fame as "lennon's wife" or "she broke up the beatles" is all inextricably tied up with her own musical ambitions + her musical influence on John. Plus she stayed in the public eye at least in part for continuing to do music into recent years.

She's really famous. People know she's a musician. And her music is really unpopular.

I think she is the most-famous least-popular musician of all time.

Not necessarily. The reason I mentioned Tiny Tim, even if he isn't so famous, was b/c literally nobody I know owns a Tiny Tim record but most people could say "plays ukelele" "has a high voice" "Tiptoe thru the tulips

How could they say "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" if they weren't familiar with his version of the song? His fame must have come from the music then.

xposts (Also, yeah, I like Tiny Tim too!)

yeah, tiptoe through the tulips was a moderate hit. but also you could argue that much of his fame was from extra musical stuff like getting married on TV, etc.

I feel like I've been surrounded by people singing "Tiptoe through the tulips" in squeaky voices since the day I was born and I only heard the original a few years ago

Anyway yeah I guess it's Yoko I just feel that if you're going to say "nobody knows her records" then you'd have to include "Give peace a chance" which most people know. You might as well say Art Garfunkel b/c aside from "Bridge" nobody gives a shit about him but everybody knows who he is

If someone is famous for being a bad musician that everyone hates, or who is a musician who was obviously marketed due to their looks or a gimmick or something but still primarily identified as a musician in public consciousness, I still see that differently than, say, a president or a mass murderer or whomever who happens to have also been a musician at some point.
Yoko is an arguable case. She falls into the first category in the view of many but that's not what gave her visibility to the mainstream public.

i think it's fair game if their music career somehow led them to their ultimate fame. yoko met john through being an artist/musician, and most of the world learned about her via an album they made together. jessica simpson used her forgettable semi-hits as a springboard to other media. etc.

I think that makes sense. Although "If someone is famous for being a bad musician that everyone hates" is still a pretty big grey area because whenever that has happened it's almost always because they were on a TV show or something. And I don't really see much of a difference between "that unpopular musician is actually famous for their famous spouse" and "that unpopular musician is actually famous because they appeared on a popular tv show."
xp

Yoko's music was and is a big part of her public persona and fueled her notoriety, so I would probably agree she qualifies.

You know, Yoko is the best option. Even if she's not a famous musician first-- which people seem to think she is-- what Yoko's music is known for is being unpopular, i.e. famously unpopular

I don't know why I got worked up for a moment I think I'm just defensive abt that woman, having grown up being taught that she was Lennon's wife and "ay-yi-yi-yi" and then feeling an incredible weight of guilt-on-behalf-of-society for taking so long to appreciate her conceptual art

What I mean is, I've deliberately reformed my impression of her to think of her foremost as an experimental artist and I think I got weirded out by people being all "no no she's an unpopular musician"

totally get where you're coming from on that

Telling people I went to a Yoko concert gets hands down the weirdest responses compared to any other show I've seen. Even from people that I would think should know better.

and I saw NKOTB and Milli Vanilli live

I think "Between my head and the sky" is not only the most slept-on record of hers but possibly the best record made by a person over age 75

As a side-note, my mom is now a big Patti Smith fan because of her book and her photography, but has no interest in her music. Imagine there's more like her, in the late-60's New Yorker-reading demographic...

Not saying Patti's MF:LP material exactly, but I was just surprised by it... it's like someone really enthusing over Nick Cave, the screenwriter.

I feel like this is an easier Q in fields other than music. Ayn Rand, Ed Wood, etc.

Ayn Rand's books are phenomenally popular though. Not an Ed Wood case at all.

I've known more than one person who was required to read Rand in high school.

I feel like there are a lot of individual works (like books and movies) that are like that moreso than the creators. LIke way more people heard My Dinner With Andre jokes in the '80s than actually saw the movie.

Ha, I never even heard of it until I saw the Community homage.

i think i learned about it from that simpsons episode where martin is playing 'my dinner with andre: the video game.'

I think Iggy takes it if you leave out Yoko. Stooges? What's famous in there aside from the name? Two, perhaps three solo hits.

No way, "The Passenger" is in fifty movies and has sold many many computers and cans of Pepsi

well, maybe in terms of units sold then.

If not Ayn Rand, then who? Gore Vidal? Norman Mailer?

JERRY: So, what's your first book?

GEORGE: "Breakfast At Tiffany's." 90 pages. (Waves a hand like it's nothing.)

JERRY: It's kinda old, isn't it?

GEORGE: They wanted to read a Truman Capote book.

JERRY (standing): Oh, sure...Truman Capote.

GEORGE: He's a great writer.

JERRY: Oh, yeah.

GEORGE: Did you ever read anything by him?

JERRY: No. You?

GEORGE: Nah.

yoko being a 'weird singer' who screamed a lot and made funny noises is an essential part of her legend. ask anyone you know what they know about yoko ono and they're at least 50% as likely to say something along those lines as they are 'broke up the beatles.'

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The fact that so many people know this and so few people have actually spent time with her music makes this pretty muh a walk, what the fuck are we still arguing about

Actually, I think we came to a consensus about Yoko Ono and have moved on to #2 and other media.

I still think John Lydon beats Iggy for #2 - isn't Johnny more famous than Iggy as a celebrity?

Musically, they're about equally unpopular.

Sex Pistols had a bunch of chart hits in the UK. I don't think either of them are exactly household names are they?

Books are tough because there are a lot of famous "difficult" books and writers that most people have heard of but never read. I guess maybe jazz is similar in music where there are more people who have heard of someone like say Thelonious Monk than have actually listened to his music.

I think most people who would be aware of John Lydon/Johnny Rotten as a personality might also be aware of "God Save the Queen" or "Anarchy in the UK". John Cage might have the greater fame:musical popularity ratio.

xpost

Iggy has more classic-rock cred in comparison to Lydon though

I'd go for Iggy in the sense that you'd expect him to be more popular when it appears he isn't, really.

Interesting case Doherty, the quality of his music being inversely proportional to his celebrity over the years

So it's really "unpopular musician married to/dating celebrity"?

I may be way off here, but is classical music kinda 100% this for a huge number of younger people? Everyone knows the names of the big composers, but a tiny minority really know who's who. I might be hugely underestimating the size of the classical-listening world here, though.

I'm sure most people could hum a tune from "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" or "Fur Elise" or Beethoven's fifth or The Messiah etc.

I was thinking that too, but a lot would probably recognize the music if they heard it. And maybe wouldn't recognize a picture of the composer, and couldn't tell you anything about their life, which maybe stretches the definition of fame a bit.
xp

I mean, a lot of kids take piano lessons or sing in a church choir.

Play in the school band etc

I'd be amazed if more people knew a Sex Pistols tune than a Mozart melody, actually.

I bet most people couldn't hum any Bach. (Though many could sit and play C+ Prelude, that's more muscle memory than anything)

Bach is hard to hum! Playing a piece from muscle memory counts as knowing the music!

Les Paul probably doesn't quite fit, but I think his name recognition post 1960 way overshadows any awareness of his music.

People like DeSade or Casanova probably have a pretty wide gap between contemporary name recognition and the number of people who have actually read their work.

Toccata and Fugue in D minor might be technically difficult to hum, but everybody knows it.

Iggy Pop and the Sex Pistols unpopular? In what universe?

OTM w Yoko Ono. Though yeah i think of her more as conceptual artist who did music as part of her career. And once you gain an appreciation of her as that, then whenever she pops up on Beatle records it's really kind of shocking.

Les Paul....made music?

yeah - I think i'm way off with the classical idea - it's popular well-known music, even if a good number of people aren't hugely knowledgeable about it

Authors turned adjective, too. Machiavellian, sadistic

Franzeny

churchgoers know Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring.

Kafkaesque

I'd be amazed if more people knew a Sex Pistols tune than a Mozart melody, actually.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:49 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm pretty uniformed on classical music, been listening to this spotify playlist that is every mozart work in chronological order...but anyway i'm always surprised when i hear stuff i recognize and i don't know how i recognize it, probably from movies and stuff

Iggy Pop and the Sex Pistols unpopular? In what universe?

In that one populated by people 'not really into music'?

ah that'll be ILM then

The Big Bopper

paula abdul

La Toya Jackson

Grace Jones

Charles Manson

Flavor Flav

i REALLY don't feel like Iggy or Lydon have developed a media presence that really goes very far beyond people that at least know "Lust For Life" or "Anarchy In The UK" -- Henry Rollins is a better example of someone who's become a familiar 'media personality' to a lot of people who've never heard a note of his music.

KRS-One

Queen Latifah

Dudes, its Sistah Souljah

News rallying point for like all of the 1992 presidential campaign

oh that's a good one. i heard her name constantly when i was 10 and thought 'oh she must be a popular artist, i'll hear one of her songs at some point' and never did. (xp)

Like I dont even remember Yo MTV Raps playing her solo stuff.

xxp - totally, and thus the namesake of the 'Sistah Souljah moment'

it's yoko but that's a very good second place, 'sister souljah moment' has entered the lexicon so concretely that i could imagine her name still being in common usage in a hundred years.

definitely more sistah souljah that fucking iggy pop or john lydon or mick jagger

if we're allowing established hip-hop stars who later became much more well-known as actors, then Ice-T & Ice Cube should be listed alongside Queen Latifah.

yoko works as a good litmus test also, like disco. if person treats it as an obv punchline then you can feel free to ignore anything they have to say about music.

^

ice-t's most famous magazine covers and headlines moment was tied to his music and latifah's biggest moment as an actress was in a musical (it'd be like saying david johansen and then disqualifying buster poindexter), even w/ cube i think 'it was a good day' is near the ubiquity level of 'even yr dad knows this' w/ like 'gin and juice' or whatever.

Iggy Pop and the Sex Pistols unpopular? In what universe?

fwiw, my uncle saw the MC5 and the Amboy Dukes a bunch of times in Detroit in the 60s. But he'd never even heard of (Iggy Pop and) the Stooges.

not quiiite 'music is much less well known than they are' but questlove seems a possible candidate for a spot somewhere on this list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7dCrtdRtZQ

?uest p much most famous for being the drummer on the jimmy fallon haha hour

yoko works as a good litmus test

new board description

plus twitter, it's weird w/ the fallon thing cuz it is the roots, my dad could tell you who the roots are, but at the same time even their actual hits are probably completely unknown to a majority of ppl who know who he is (probably even a majority of his twitter followers, though maybe that's an age thing also). creed bratton is a weird case - he's well known, his music is well known, but my guess is the majority of ppl familiar w/ both don't make the connection?

ice-t's most famous magazine covers and headlines moment was tied to his music

true, but I doubt that there was a high percentage among those aware of 'Copkiller' who'd actually listened to it. The same could be said for 2 Live Crew a few years earlier. Is popular awareness of a musician AS a musician enough to disqualify them here, or do folks have to have heard/bought/otherwise consumed their music?

russ le roq aka russell crowe

I'm pretty sure even though that whole thing went down in my state, my dad wouldnt recognize the 2 Live Crew's name if I said it to him.

Also, LMFAO at balls' idea that "Twitter users" is an accurate cross-section of American life.

i don't know - cnn played those body count clips alot. the same w/ 'me so horny' (which still pops up as a family guy style punchline frequently). agreed that the majority of ppl familiar w/ ice-t or 2 live crew have never heard an entire song by them, i don't think it's as huge a percentage as w/ sister souljah though, i mean i've never heard an entire sister souljah song and i've heard an entire professor griff album.

lmfao at whiney's reading comprehension, how it's reflected in his place of work, diet, etc

mick jagger

Did someone suggest this seriously? I assumed it was a joke. The Stones get daily airplay surely.

probably even a majority of his twitter followers, though maybe that's an age thing also - hint: this is me specifically noting twitter is not an accurate cross-section of american life. i'm saying to the guy w/ 3 twitter accounts specifically devoted to whining about ilx. #whineychocolatecheesecake

yeah the argument was these kids today don't know any stones songs but knew mick jagger cuz of ke$ha, maroon five, superheavy

somebody cracked their zingy piggy bank

there's always a generation gap somewhere, right now there's a 10-year-old who only knows christina aguilera as the crazy has-been on "the voice." this discussion seems to be more about fame and recognition in a broader sense even among people that were alive and paying attention when an artist was at their peak.

yeah, cf paula abdul sometimes being referred to as a 'one hit wonder' when she was on idol. randy jackson is a solid one though it feels like cheating. also ppl like john kerry, etc who had garage rock bands as kids or actors/stephen king/etc who had vanity rock bands. haven't seen anything that compares w/ yoko or sister souljah, music an intrinsic part of public identity, names are hugely well known (and will be long after their deaths), and music remains genuinely obscure (not just '12 yr olds/lex don't know it').

paula abdul as a 'one hit wonder' is just crazy.

Another thing with Ono that distinguishes her from e.g. John Kerry is that she is actually a reasonably important figure in 60s experimental music, comes up in all the textbooks, etc.

Maybe that's what you were getting at with music an intrinsic part of public identity.

frank zappa

russ le roq aka russell crowe

― estela, Friday, 16 November 2012 12:00 (1 hour ago)

boom tbh

Varg Vikernes? I'd imagine that especially in Scandinavia he's known much more as "that guy who killed a dude and burned churches" than for his music... Just a guess.

Robert Johnson
Dolly Parton
Willie Nelson
Enrico Caruso
GG Allin
Jandek

Dolly and Zappa are good ones

Ricky Gervais / Seona Dancing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Parton_albums_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Parton_singles_discography

i feel like "9 to 5" & "On the Road Again" might be deal-killers here for Dolly & Willie.

Oh, Willie Nelson is an equally insane choice. And lol at Jandek or GG Allin being the "most famous" anything.

GG is obv not "famous" in the traditional sense, tho I'd guess that the ratio of people who are aware him to those who have actually heard any of his music is just as skewed as most of the other main contenders here.

see also: Gwar

Jessica Simpson is OTM I don't know a single one of her songs

― in an English way (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:41 PM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

i was astonished to find out recently that shes sold like 30 million albums. i can only name one or two of her songs

Michael Jackson

lock thread

menudo, but just the name itself

Lauren Laverne. Elvis.

The Nolan Sisters?

Dolly and Zappa are good ones

Excuse me, in what universe did Dolly Parton have a relatively unpopular musical career? Or was she not successful in the US?

Les Paul is a really great answer, see also Burt Weedon in the UK in the same context.

As for performing musicians who have never done anything else, I kind of feel like Jandek is a good fit but have no idea how well-known he actually is any more.

John Mayer is routinely prefixed with "hit singer/songwriter" over here in the celeb mags.

Check his 'chart archive' everyhit profile.

You might need to use Chartstats instead..

OK, it seems I am out-of-date and he's had a top ten album over here.

So, carry on.

Zappa is the king here. Great shout. Amazingly famous, everyone's heard of him, knows he's a musician, but could tell you the names of his kids before they could hum you a tune.

John Mayer is similar to Jessica Simpson--though I've actually heard some of Simpson's songs.

Really seminal types achieve fame way beyond their sales or personal popularity: John Mayall, Alexis Korner, those kind of cats. Robert Johnson maybe. Indie equivalent might be Postcard Records - I've been hearing about them all my life, but have never heard a note.

yeah Robert Johnson is a good call

I doubt my mum wuld have heard of Robert Johnson, but she has most definitely heard of Moon Unit and Dweezil Zappa.

Not saying they're hugely famous or anything but:

Skrewdriv3r

Woody Guthrie

Ike Turner

Vincent Gallo

My dad didnt know who Philip Glass is

An argument could be made for Beethoven, Bach, Mozart (probably the latter two more than Ludwig von)...

Few ever heard them in their time, and most people now couldn't pick out a Mozart tune if they had to.

That idea still sounds nuts to me. I responded to it upthread. You really don't think most people could hum the first few bars of "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik"?

Also, WTF @ John Mayer. "Your Body Is a Wonderland" and "Waiting on the World to Change" were inescapable.

not outside of the US

Excuse me, in what universe did Dolly Parton have a relatively unpopular musical career? Or was she not successful in the US?

She was massively successful in the US; #1 hit after #1 hit; had her own TV show even. (Actually, she's one more American artist my parents are familiar with.) That was one of the oddest suggestions I could imagine.

(See the discographies I linked upthread.)

That idea still sounds nuts to me. I responded to it upthread. You really don't think most people could hum the first few bars of "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik"?

Also, WTF @ John Mayer. "Your Body Is a Wonderland" and "Waiting on the World to Change" were inescapable.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, November 16, 2012 9:18 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I actually don't think most people could! They would recognize it when they heard it, but very few would be able to say "ah, Mozart" and name the piece. Also, the original question is about a ratio, and I'd argue that nearly everybody knows of the big classical composers but relatively insanely few could identify their works--especially beyond the most obvious strains of the most canonized pieces.

I guess that takes us back to the question of what popularity is. If people recognize a tune instantly, I think that means the music is known/popular, regardless of whether they know who composed the tune. (Most people would not recognize a Yoko Ono or John Cage piece.)

Sure:

"Isn't it rich..
Aren't we a pair.."

But I do also think people are discounting the number of people who come across classical music through some basic musical education (piano lessons, church, music classes in school, a trip to the symphony...)

xpost to self

Yeah, I see your point there... It's no small feat for something you composed to become part of a collective musical awareness, even if most people don't know it's you who wrote it.

Frank Zappa is still by far the best suggestion on this thread.

Bez

My mum's never heard of him.

But lol.

I dunno, he's had a top 40 single and nine top 40 albums in the US. I actually agree that his fame is greater than the popularity of his music but I don't agree that he's "by far" a better answer than Yoko Ono, John Cage, or Sister Souljah. Maybe it's because the classic rock station I grew up with LOVED Zappa when they still had a progressive/AOR format.

xpost re Zappa

the hilarious thing about the Dolly Parton suggestion is that even if someone knew her primarily for 9 To 5 the movie, which is possible, they'd almost certainly know "9 To 5" the song too.

Maybe it's because the classic rock station I grew up with LOVED Zappa when they still had a progressive/AOR form

Admittedly, he's completely dropped off their radar since.

I like Sistah Souljah
I was also thinking of Jethro Tull

I mean, I like Sistah Souljah as a suggestion.

was Michael Jackson seriously mentioned here, wtf

Why Jethro Tull? They still get plenty of classic rock airplay and they're not exactly famous celebrities/personalities outside of that.

Oh, interesting. Scanning some classic rock playlists, Tull does seem to be fading.

"Aqualung" ain't the staple it used to be and in some spheres they are infamous for winning that Grammy over Metallica but i don't really think Tull counts at all here

Yeah, I guess I'd be surprised if someone was aware of the 1988 hard rock Grammy but had never heard "Aqualung".

I always find it interesting how things fade from 'staple' status. I guess market research was telling programmers that people were changing the station during "Aqualung" and "Living in the Past" but wanted to hear more Def Leppard and Triumph. Also, "Owner of a Lonely Heart" appears to be the only Yes song to get daily airplay these days.

I did hear Roundabout in a Subway once, and yes they played the whole thing!

"In and around the bread . . . toppings come out of the bins and they LIE THERE!!!!!!!!!"

A lot of these suggestions are crazy. People learn Woody Guthrie songs in elementary school! Way more people know his songs than know his name.

Yeah, I remember hearing "I've Seen All Good People" in Buffalo and Syracuse over the last few years. Maybe it's just the stations I was looking at. (Maybe something about Canadian stations?)

And stations in the US Plains/Upper Midwest seemed surprisingly enamoured of ELP, based on one long car trip.

GG Allin

― The Fieri Garnishes (Pillbox), Thursday, 15 November 2012 18:30 (Yesterday) Permalink

This was my first thought, too. Granted, not that famous, but the ratio of people who have heard of him to people who have actually heard him would be very high.

Michael Jackson was not a serious mention...but you gave it some thought, didn't you? lol!

Zappa is a pretty good call, and GG Allin is too..

My initial thought was Ringo... Now before you go apeshit on me, I was thinking about the his fame vs his being a musician. Yeah he was in the Beatles, and his fame is a direct result from that, but does his lackluster drumming and musical contribution to that institution warrant how famous he is?

What lackluster drumming?

Sha Na Na

gtfo, ringo is one of the all time great rock drummers

otm, 'lackluster' is straight bullcrap

No ringo is not. He is only praised cuz he'sin the Beatles.. Its been said many times, he wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles. he was average at best.

It's such a cliche, but it's true: if Ringo was lackluster, then the Beatles were lackluster.

(he wasn't/they weren't)

I'd really love to do a straw poll of non music snobs who know GG Allins name in any way shape or form

I first saw him on an episode of Jenny Jones or something.

I'm not arguing that he is at all well-known, though.

Dad: "Ah yes, the guy I saw on Jenny Jones 20 years ago. How could I forget his name"

Like I'm pretty sure my mom knows Yoko Ono and Frank Zappa's name, but seriously, like the Sex Pistols have sole one million records total, and I doubt there's much outside of that actually quite small group of people who know GG Allin's name for any reason

and like just because ILX says Burzum's name every 10 seconds doesnt mean that people in the real world act like that

wow, you guys have hip parents.. Mine don't know shit! lol

Its been said many times, he wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles.

Yeah, that was a joke. Have you actually listened to the songs that Paul drummed on?

Agree w/Yoko. Also maybe Yngwie Malmsteen?

Yngwie is a fucking GOD!

He does unleash good fury.

i think Yoko probably wins this from the suggestions so far. because people are fucking idiots.

Yngwie Ono

what about this the in other direction, people who are remembered as musicians even if they were arguably way more successful at something else?

Sonny Bono

that said idk how powerful bono really was in congress and it probably doesn't overshadow what he did in showbiz...

Zappa and Yoko are the prom king and queen of the thread, which is cool because for one brief boring moment they shared the stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip8-vEGug7o

Thom Yorke and Bobby Gillespie. Two of the most ridiculous cunts I never want to meet.

Bobby Gillespie is definitely more famous for being a cunt than his music

K Stockhausen? You know, the dude on that Beatles cover, and supposed godfather of IDM.

briefly infamous after 9/11 too

I didn't know Stockhausen was on the Sgt. Pepper's cover

also I thought Hitler was on the Sgt. Pepper's cover but apparently he isn't

briefly infamous after 9/11 too

I imagine his 9/11 comments didn't quite make him as infamous as he would have liked them to have.

I think Hitler was supposed to be on Sgt Pepper's, but it got changed b/c it would be too controversial.

everyone is so bad at this thread

Iggy Pop was the first thing that came to my mind.

Suspect "Musicians/artists who are "respected" by other musicians but nobody else listens to" is probably another thread

In the mid-80s I knew Zappa mostly as the pissed-off looking '60s guy testifying at the PMRC hearings, but that "Valley Girl" song was pretty well known.

Ted Nugent is still a good answer I think. Don't know how popular his music is in the US, but I reckon high proportion of music dorks in the UK would have heard of him but wouldn't be able to whistle a single one of his songs.

Oh there's lots of reasonably famous American artists no-one in the UK ever listens to - Jimmy Buffett!

dave matthews

We've had a thread on this before.

Is "Margaritaville" unknown in the UK?

"We Hate You Little Girls" by Throbbing Gristle is more well known.

I've never actually heard any Jimmy Buffett (unless the episode of South Park where Cartman gets AIDS and gets Elton John to play a benefit for him but Elton cancels because AIDS is too 80s and cancer is where it's at these days, so Jimmy Buffett plays instead - if that counts) but I knew that Ween's "Bananas and Blow" was a Jimmy Buffett parody just from descriptions of Jimmy Buffett's music.

buddy bolden wld have a p high ratio

How's about:

Miles Davis

ok, please explain that one

isn't "So What" THE archetypical post-war jazz recording that everyone knows?

(other than Vince Guaraldi)

I don't know "So What"

it's settled then

lock thread

kenny g is a fucking legend, at least in china. he is definitely heard everywhere, especially in schools, where his music (including the legendary hit "going home") is often played as an indicator that everyone should go the hell home already

― Z S, Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:22 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't know why, but this unexpectedly made me laugh really hard. I mean, I accept your authority on the matter. It just sounded funny.

west africa too. kenny g's name rings out across the continents.

michael bolton is a fucking legend, at least in my house

Elton John
Janet Jackson
Bobby Brown

what

Bobby Brown maybe but those other two, come on who can't rattle off a half dozen EJ's or JJ's

anyone under 20

Can't tell whether people are being serious anymore.

I think Lil Wayne is the currently best-known, most-disliked US musician, who is not famous for anything else besides being a musician.

he's disliked?

for a while there he was disliked by young people/youtube commenters who make strawmen out of big pop stars, although I think that mantle has moved on to Nicki Minaj for rappers nowadays

for what it's worth I didn't mean "least-popular" as "most-disliked" - (though there's probably overlap), what I meant was people who were unpopular in terms of sales/radio play/youtube hits etc. - people whose music was not popular.

so zappa and ono work - sure lots of people dislike their music, but they're also just not very popular in terms of record sales, etc. relative to their fame.

whereas kenny g and michael bolton and lil wayne don't work as far as I'm concerned, because they were or are really popular artists - they have a big fan base, they sold a lot of records.

maybe splitting hairs here.

if you're under 20 you've probably at least heard The Lion King soundtrack dogg

Zappa's the first thing I thought of when opening the thread. Frank himself liked to tell the story about the time a shopkeeper looked as his wife's credit card and asked her if she was married to "Frank Zappa, the comedian?"

Getting into Randy Newman recently, I'm finding alot of people know who he is and ask "You like Randy Newman? Him?"

I think Kenny G and Michael Bolton are good answers, for Europeans at least. I remember learning their names at quite an early age, because their music was always mocked in MAD Magazine and American TV shows, but the first time I heard an actual Kenny G song was two or three years ago, and I've still never heard anything by Bolton.

So yeah, they might have huge fanbases in the US, but certainly not here.

Reckon people like Michael Bolton could still turn up and sell out an arena show without too much trouble, maybe even a stadium.

Yoko is the best answer to this question, no contest.

Tiny Tim. Everybody knows who he is but nobody owns any of his records

Uh, I've got three of his albums on vinyl, two more on CD and 3CD boxset!

I'd still question whether Yoko is known primarily as a musician. Or was I really the only one who for the longest time thought she was a conceptual/visual artist who only ended being recorded because her husband was a famous musician? It was only a few years ago that I learned she has a long, independent music career too, besides the art career. The Simpsons gag (used above as an example of her fame), for example, is about her conceptual art, not about her music.

(x-post)

Or was I really the only one who for the longest time thought

Posts very much in character

Reckon people like Michael Bolton could still turn up and sell out an arena show without too much trouble, maybe even a stadium.

Yoko is the best answer to this question, no contest.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:01 AM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it looks like most of his recent/upcoming live dates are at casinos, Hard Rock Live clubs, or places with names that end in "performing arts center"

Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

Gary Glitter is a good call these days, but the guy was actually hugely popular in the mid 70s.

Kraftwerk, in the US.

John Tesh

loving yr display name Geir :D

News announcer

So yeah, they might have huge fanbases in the US, but certainly not here.

According to Wikipedia, Bolton has had five top 10 albums in Norway, including his greatest hits compilation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bolton_discography

Also, is "Rock and Roll Part 2" not a staple at sports arenas anymore?

I never had the sense that Kraftwerk's name was widely known outside music geeks in North America.

xp It still is, but I think relatively few people know it's Gary Glitter. Or even what the song's called.

(see also: "Song 2")

Yeah I think a lot of people have probably read about Kraftwerk in passing or whatever but I don't think they qualify here

xp It still is, but I think relatively few people know it's Gary Glitter. Or even what the song's called.

(see also: "Song 2")

Doesn't this still mean that the music is popular?

It's unclear as to whether or not the question is "Who is a very famous musician of whom nobody knows anything about their music?" or "Who is a very famous musician who's music is unpopular i.e. widely hated?"

Brio has clarified that twice!

I'm not saying he hasn't, I'm saying the discussion continues

Doesn't this still mean that the music is popular?

Oh, absolutely. But "Song 2" is known as "Woo HOO!" just as "Rock & Roll Part 2" is known as "Duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh HEY! duh-nuh-nuh-nuh" rather than "that song by Blur" or "that Gary Glitter song."

Well sure but what about "who wrote God Save The Queen / America"

OK, rereading the OP, I guess what is unclear is NOT the distinction that fgti made (which brio has spelled out) but the meaning of "musical popularity": I've been assuming that this simply refers to whether an artist's music is popular, regardless of whether people associate the music with the artist. However, "musical popularity" could also mean "whether an artist is popular for their music", i.e. whether people associate that person with their famous music, in which case the Mozart and Gary Glitter suggestions seem slightly less insane.

But yeah, in that case, fgti's xpost OTM.

Famous for being bad-at-music / status as "famous for music only" debatable has got to be John Tesh, Yoko Ono. Jamie OTM upthread for saying the world is full of assholes

I cannot even parse Zappa into this conversation because people I know who are familiar with his music are so much more familiar with it than I am that I can't even comprehend a world where he is considered "unpopular"

Are massively famous but their music is unknown, from a ratio perspective it's got to be Sistah Souljah. brio's initial post of Pete Doherty is interesting but I could sing you "Fuck Forever", however I couldn't name a single song (or even post-Libertines band) belonging to Carl Barat

Well, you can only not ever have heard "Bang Bang, You're Dead" then.

Gary Glitter is a good call these days, but the guy was actually hugely popular in the mid 70s.

I only started listening to his albums after his, uh, fall from grace. Always preferred the Glitter Band anyway.

John Tesh was famous first as the host of Entertainment Tonight, I think.

I would disqualify any of these "young people don't know them" or "we Europeans don't know them" picks, especially if the artist is/was popular in their particular context.