Pazz & Jop thread, aka when is the official deadline for this thing?

Midnight Eastern? Pacific?

I looked at the email and just saw December 28. Could've missed the time though.

11:59 p.m. wherever you are

Thanks. Solid thread.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417iWd5O-qL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I wonder if anyone has ever run for office with the last name Baroness

http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5185369/il_570xN.329765441.jpg

http://wa2.www.unesco.org/new/typo3temp/pics/4b5bdb2d72.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/vote_goat_campaign_button-p145451323235875976en8go_400.jpg

http://frankocean.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/channelorangevote.jpg

So everyone's voting for Hinder amirite

Am I uncool for voting seriously (or at all)?

Not at all. Fellows like you make our country great.

It's 11 p.m. where I am and it says "This poll is now closed."

This happened to me last year. I ran into technical problems with the website, was told to send my lists via email, did so (a few days later than I said I would, to be fair) and my ballot didn't end up in the poll.

that's a bummer. to be fair, though, you could've voted early.

I just sent mine via e-mail, which always worked except last year, when they failed to count my votes (while using a couple of comments). I noticed something funny this morning. In 2007, voting for Imperial Teen's "What You Do," I wrote that "I hope they keep doing what they do for a long time." This year, voting for Imperial Teen's "Don't Know How You Do It," I wrote that "So I hope all three keep at it forever..." (i.e., them, Wussy, and Yo La Tengo).

So who's more out of ideas, Imperial Teen or me?

lol

Out of ideas myself so will listen to that Imperial Teen record right now.

This can be the home for tardy ballots! Incl belated improvements on ones you actually sent.

How could I have forgotten Corin Tucker Band's Kill My Blues? It does kill; so much better than her okay but autumn leaves-blah-blah-tending solo debut, and reminds us who was the true lead singer of Sleater-Kinney.

Got mind in on the second last day, and botched my singles list: immediately after sending I realized that I'd left off two tracks I like better than two that I did include. I'm way less obsessive about singles than I am abt albums in the poll anyway, particularly because of the nebulous definition of "singles" (the ilm tracks poll is broader and thus more specific in its definition) and also be l wise I'm not even sure how the ranking of singles works here (does order matter?). An well, will use the ilm poll to correct the wrongs I made with my P&J ballot anyway.

*mine

also "be I wise" = because

sigh

the nebulous definition of "singles" (the ilm tracks poll is broader and thus more specific in its definition)How so?

Single implies something that was released as such, whatever that means anymore. Tracks could be any song released in any form during the year. I know that ppl tend to vote for non-single tracks in P&J but the consensus it seems to be striving towards always strikes me as being a ranking of the years best SINGLES (hence, year of impact and all that) while a track poll is, by definition, more inclusive.

Yeah, I'm bring ridiculously pedantic abt these things, I know.

No, maybe they shouldn't call it Singles anymore, since a lot of stuff is mainly or exclusively "viral" (though with no Wed Sheriff removals, and maybe labels etc think a non-release release can be more popular cos it's little bit more populist, more street, so better promotion even without royalties)

Web Sheriff, sorry

as someone who has ranted and raved about p&j and other tracks/singles lists getting away from chart fodder and more toward the kind of niche/crit bubble stuff that has always dominated albums polls, i'm mostly ok with things that aren't strictly "singles" placing if the song has some kind of life of its own on youtube or in clubs or even just in the critical dialogue. if something's basically just an album cut that only gets voted for by people who heard (and probably also voted for) the album, on the other hand, still a pet peeve.

i submitted a ballot a few days ago but i've already changed my personal top 10 albums. just goes to show how fickle the whole listmaking process is.

yeah i tend to think of these lists as a snapshot, you can and will continue to change your mind but you just gotta go ahead and commit what you were feeling at one particular moment to posterity

"some kind of life of its own on youtube or" def with you there, ideally, but some kind of life of its own in my head is the main thing. If I have to say, "Oh wait, but is it popular enough, " might as well vote Billboard Top Ten. Although I'm not gonna exclude it because it is popular, or crit-approved.

and yeah, when you only get ten slots to fill, another reason "you can and will continue to change your mind."

Two days

results will be published in print and online the week of
January 16th.

*shutters*

that will never stop being funny

I know! Just the thought of someone that dumb attempting to put this list together makes me cringe, but then I think of "shutters" and I lol.

this is also super lol: The ilx circle jerk up boring mountain trudges forever onward.

lol i missed that one, where was it?

boom: Is Everybody Who Edits the Village Voice Really This Stupid?

Everyone who submitted a P+J ballot is going to vote in the ILM poll, right? I mean at the very least you can just submit the same ballot again.

No.

busted :(

I need to remember to vote in the ILM poll! This has been a crazy couple weeks

When does the ILM poll close?

2012 ILM SUPER-MEGA YEAR-END ALBUMS 'N' TRACKS POLL™ VOTING THREAD (voting ends MIDNIGHT EST on Friday, January 18th, 2012)

Everyone who submitted a P+J ballot is going to vote in the ILM poll, right? I mean at the very least you can just submit the same ballot again.

― One week left to vote in the ILM End of Year Poll! (seandalai), Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:48 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Even if we did not submit all our albums and tracks as ILM poll ballot nominations?

I'm afraid you're not going to see me in this year P+J ballot owing to the fact that I didn't see the deadline date until it was too late (it was buried in the long paragraph of text I was emailed and not highlighted). In previous years I got sent reminders by previous editors but not this time, so I was too busy enjoying Christmas and having fun to remember to do a list. Oh well.

Well obviously I'd rather you did use the nominations lists but anything that wasn't nominated just gets ignored in tallying, so in principle you could just resubmit your P+J ballot if you have no ability/inclination to spend extra time on it.

xp you can still submit a list to the ILM poll!

Comments up

http://www.villagevoice.com/2013-01-16/music/pazz-jop-the-comments/

14. Father John Misty Fear Fun [Sub Pop Records] 363 33

15. Bruce Springsteen Wrecking Ball [Columbia Records] 361 36

16. Bob Dylan Tempest [Columbia Records] 349 33

TUPAC BACK

can someone translate for me

Greenpoint Twitter Snark -> English

Farrah Abraham #270 :(

too high

RIP 2009

12. Dirty Projectors
26. Grizzly Bear
160. Animal Collective

is AC's position the steepest fall ever for a champ?

10 individual ballots are showing up for me, including one guy twice. same for everyone else?

hahaha if you click on any of the singles to see who voted for a song, the list of names doesn't even show up. stellar work.

yes

xpost

loved the Pistol Annies so much in 2011 that I made it #1 again in 2012

i got really excited that hinder beat baroness but it turned out there's just some stray baroness #1 sitting in 250s

169 Dawn Richard, Armor On

I assume all 5 voters were ILXors?

is AC's position the steepest fall ever for a champ?

Someone just claimed this on Twitter.

Ty Segall's "Twins" is currently at #95 AND #723 in the albums poll.

I can forgive them not having ballots ready. It's a big project, it seems to me. But when I start to see stuff like the Segall thing, I start to worry a bit about accuracy.

I assume all 5 voters were ILXors?

― Four days left to vote in the ILM End of Year Poll! (seandalai), Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:55 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

click to find out!

Channel Orange is a record that critics laud despite having a difficult time pigeonholing. In late December, I went to my local record store in Denver and was shocked to find the album in the rap section.

YOU SHOULD PROB STOP GOING TO THIS RECORD STORE

xp The "voters who voted for this" links don't work yet

confused critics nationwide going into record stores and refiling frank ocean into different sections

Whether you consider yourself a fan of rap, indie rock, pop, metal, or polka, you were thinkin' about Ocean.

If I had to stereotype hardcore polka fans, I'd say it's unlikely they're aware of Frank Ocean.

Looks like 500 voters this year? Down from 700 last year.

i wouldn't be surprised if Arrested Development's 2nd album was lower than #160 in '94 but that's hard to verify

Are there old P&J pollls (besides xgau's) and non-xgau essays pre-internet floating around the web? Maybe Thursday when I'm at the library I'll dip into the '94 poll on microfiche.

i imagine glenn will prob be looking at this thread and fixing and/or answering questions about issues w/ the P&J site so we're at least in a unique position here to do something about them

So Fiona Apple's last three albums have finished at #7, #5, and #3, respectively.

In that time span, these are the only other artists to have placed 3+ albums in the top 10:

Arcade Fire
Flaming Lips
Kanye West
Sleater-Kinney
Tom Waits
White Stripes

"Respectively" is confusing; I mean "in sequence."

Good comments, although "I know you've been hurt by someone else/I can tell by the way you carry yourself" wasn't written for Rhianna, it was written by Brook Benton and popularized by Bobby Blue Bland--good article here
http://www.gpb.org/news/2011/11/08/follow-the-sample-drakes-take-care-comes-from-the-blues; Pretty Lights made good wounded robot use of it too.

the comments are from the same, like, 4 people

no offense to alfred

I MISS THE MONOCULTURE

But not the same people whose ballots are posted (last time I checked)

hmm Old People didn't do so well this year 'cept for Swans and Bruce.

Dylan at least rebounded from his low low spot in '09. and I'm surprised to see Loudon Wainwright just a couple spots behind Neil Young.

Frank Ocean is an old soul

wondering if I should give the Bruce another chance; a few people whose opinions I trust say this one Holds Up.

i didnt listen to like any of this shit this year

cool everyone likes R&B again i guess idk im tired of talking about all these artists & songs now

otm on both counts

http://lifeisbreathtakinglybeautiful.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/change-quote.jpg

only some of the ballots are showing up for me?

The 47 percent.

"tired of talking about all these artists & songs now" is just par for the course for January though

yeah but the overlap w/ WHAT EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT ON ILX and what makes PNJ is basically 1:1 at this point

at least i've actually heard of the albums winner this year.

i'm pretty thrilled about Miguel's placings, was the first time i gave maximum points to my #1 and was still pretty surprised that he made top 5, much less top 10 (and the only other time i voted for something in the top 10 was New Amerykah)

Where are the ballots?

Provisional Ballots are the new Hanging Chads

as far as i can tell there's about 10 K-pop tracks on the list, none with more than one or two mentions except for "gangnam style" which has 27

also who voted for kyary lol

I'm mostly shocked at the singles winner. That many people rated that song?

haha you're kidding right

Lana Del Rey beat Nas AND Ariel Pink? For real?

Not kidding, Al, but I kinda live in my own world

why so surprised about Miguel

i was just pessimistic about him getting that kind of support in the year of Frank Ocean -- really would not have believed 3-4 months ago if you'd told me "Adorn" was going to place ahead of "Climax" and "Thinkin' About You"

yeah "Adorn" rating so high is my biggest P&J-related pleasure in a few years.

out of the ILX hive "Adorn" only started to click in the last couple months of 2012, so yay.

Always fun to see how many of my albums I was the only vote for. This year: 7. (Would have been six, but Fushitsusha put out two albums this year and two people voted for the other one.)

The Ty Segall duplication is a publishing glitch, not a tabulating glitch, caused by a few partial ballots that didn't get removed properly. I'm talking to the Voice to get them fixed. It affects a bunch of the numbers as currently shown on the Voice site. The correct numbers, or at least the ones with no errors I know of, are now up at http://furia.com/pjs/table_album_2012_total.html and http://furia.com/pjs/table_song_2012_total.html. Please yelp if you see anything awry.

yo Glenn, total ballots I still be seein':
Josh Bis
Josh Bis
Carol Cooper
Martin Douglas
Jim Fouratt
Mike R. Meyer
Jeffrey Morgan
Jon Jon Scott
Matt Sebastian
John Seroff

("Jon Jon"?)

I think I'd be more surprised about Miguel's placement if Jim DeRogatis hadn't gushed about him.

the David Brooks of rockcrit?

Has anybody ever asked Frank Ocean, in an interview, if he really, really likes tennis?

I'd like to point out that I was the first one to post about the greatness of "Adorn" here *feels smug*

lol, i am one of the voter ballots that made it in.

Are you Jon Jon, old penis (old soul)

Yeah, the 10 ballots showing now are actually the very ones that should have been deleted, as mentioned in my previous note! I don't control anything on the Voice's end, so I can't fix this myself, but I'll make sure they know. You can see the proper ballot list at http://furia.com/pjs/table_voter_2012_total.html.

E-40, The Block Brochure: Welcome to the Soil V. 1,2,3
Heavy on the Grind Entertainment Points: 10 Mentions: 1

jeez people

Just to be clear, those particular ballots will be deleted because they were replaced by later ballots from the same voters. No voters will be harmed.

sorry I missed the note, thanks for the link too

i heard a number of the singles only cuzza the time i served in waiting roomz this year

rip forks' ballot

glenn, do you want to hear about typos in album titles? I can imagine it not being top of your to-fix list.

Is St3v3 K1v1at an ILXor? Only name among the "Armor On" voters I don't recognise.

Sure, I'll fix typos.

If they're too boring to list here, email me: gmcdonald at furia.com...

Is St3v3 K1v1at an ILXor? Only name among the "Armor On" voters I don't recognise.

― Four days left to vote in the ILM End of Year Poll! (seandalai), Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:15 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup, curmudgeon

i voted for E-40 in '11 and enjoyed the '12 albums too but i mean at a certain point it's like ok

^^^^

i would very much enjoy spending some time with ONE album, if there was one

with al and deej here

Looks like the Voice version is almost right now, and the ballot list is now up there, too.

Among other things, my version of this poll includes an artist ranking, which you can look at by points (a song vote is worth 2 points: http://furia.com/pjs/table_artistp_2012_total.html) or ballot-count (http://furia.com/pjs/table_artistp_2012_totalrev.html). Ranked by ballot-count, Carly Rae Jepsen comes in 4th!

Is St3v3 K1v1at an ILXor? Only name among the "Armor On" voters I don't recognise.

― Four days left to vote in the ILM End of Year Poll! (seandalai), Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:15 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup, curmudgeon

― some dude, Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:21 PM (1 hour ago)

Whoa, I didn't know this. I remember St3v3 K1v1at from '80s fanzine days.

chief keef placed below hinder

Too late in the year

he had a tape early in the year too, if any of the cultural tourists were so driven

There's always 2013 I guess

hinder's album came out in dec too

Hinder rocks! Go Hinder!

Wow, Alfred was the only voter for "Arch n Point." Only left it off mine cause I chose not to overlap my albums and singles this year, and I know "Adorn" was what ppl latched onto, but still a bit surprised.

Soooo...were the two Hinder votes joke votes or not? Seems like kind of a waste if they were.

yes

what a waste

am i the only one who thinks linking to specific ballots (or lists of people who voted for a song/album) to point and mock in a public forum (like twitter) is a major dick move?

like, if you wanna attack the results, attack the results. but zeroing in on people ... c'mon.

also, i have no doubt it's a fine album, but loudon wainwright iii at #32 has to be the oddest result in this thing

if you participate in pazz & jop you can probably (or should) withstand someone calling you a dummy, it's nbd

Jordan, no ballot?

no... was going to make a political statement but then i just forgot about the deadline

my top 10s are on pitchfork tho

xpost i know, just not a good look on the other end, imo. whatevah

okay no one is going to stop this ballot

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2012/684401/

ugh i meant "top this ballot" but you know

i voted for E-40 in '11 and enjoyed the '12 albums too but i mean at a certain point it's like ok
― some dude

^^^^
― rap steve gadd (D-40)

i would very much enjoy spending some time with ONE album, if there was one
― j.

with al and deej here
― The Reverend

So the message i'm getting here is we love what he's doing but there's so much of it and it sounds similar so who needs more great rap from one of the field's best craftsman in massive doses? And/or I'd be happy to listen if only there was less of it?
I dunno, that feels like saying I liked Five Guys last year but man there's only so many great burgers you can enjoy and the portions are so BIG
then pace yourself and enjoy

also THE TYRANNY OF THE NEW and all that too if i felt like doing the whole internet argument thing but i guess that a - i don't like doing it and b - i'm not especially good at it
but still, you know

Frank Ocean, Kendrick Lamar, and Japandroids were on their J. J. Abrams this year, taking over long-running franchises like r&b, rap, and rock and reminding us why we liked them. — Michael Tedder

most o_0 music writing 2013

"Gangnam Style" is a sure-enough warning sign that if we don't take care of our own, someone else will come along and do it for us. — Roy Trakin

He's hinting at a possible Bruce cover.

IF AMERICANS AREN'T WILLING TO WORK THAN BY GOD THE MACARENA WILL

Glenn, thanks for the hard work with the number crunching. The quantoid in me is filled with glee right now. I want to get my co-workers to try and figure out a legit mathematical equation to "kvultosis." (Is there one? I am dying to know.)

Sure, kvltosis is just math. First I calculate centricity for each album ballot, which is the sum of the total poll-points for all that ballot's albums divided by the maximum possible such total for a 10-vote ballot. Then each album is rescored with each vote's points multiplied by (1-bc) where bc is that ballot's centricity. Then kvltosis is this new total divided by the album's original point-total. So if an album got a single 10-point vote on a ballot with .7 centricity, the adjusted score would be 3 (from 10*(1-.7)), and the kvltosis would be .3 (from 3/10). (Except I don't actually show this on the stats site for albums with fewer than 5 votes.)

!!!!!!!!!!!

So I get judged as having 00 metal content, but the headbanging of Americana is a major part of its appeal. Just wish he'd taken it further: into "This Land," with its de-bowdlerized lyrics; "My Country/God Save" of course!

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2012/U3ByaW5nc3RlZW58fHxFcmljIENodXJjaA==/

6 votes for Eric Church's country song "Springsteen"

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2012/Qm91Z2VyIExlIE1vbmRlfHx8U3RhZmYgQmVuZGEgQmlsaWxp/

4 votes for Staff Benda Bilili from the Congo album.

"Thinkin' Bout You" should have 5 carryover votes from last year.

Number of non North American albums that have finished above a Bruce Springsteen record

2012: 0
2010: 2
2009: 10
2007: 4
2006: 3
2005: 13
2002: 1

Yeah, you're right, I had last year's as "Thinking About You" and missed it. Will fix. 5 more votes won't move it past Usher, but at least it breaks the tie at #4.

as a P&J stats nerd i am really failing to find that meaningful in any way (xp)

Alan Light's essay on Jack White acknowledges his critics and haters and then concludes:

Jack White is the most important figure in music today, though, not because of consistency or perfection, but because he's chasing something greater, because he still actually believes that this stuff matters.

Uh...

I believe that stuff matters. Can I be important, too?

Light on White, surprisingly not very bright

In the past 11 years, 5 out of 7 times a new Springsteen album, (even if it's not a studio album!) has been considered better than all bar four records from the combined efforts of 95% of the rest of the planet.

26 out of the past 31 winners have been North American men or bands entirely (or mostly) conisting of men.

Misener is on to something, but she misses the mark. White's representations of women might not always be pretty, but they're definitely not simplistic. Sometimes he stands dumbfounded by love's power. But he also knows that salvation is not as easy as finding a woman to rescue him. "Spike heels make a hole in a life boat," he offers in one magically perfect image from the stuttery rave-up "Sixteen Saltines."

meant to write "christ." after that

Hey Glenn, The list of total album voters for Janka Nabay En Yah Sah if I click on J*nath*n F*scher's ballot leaves out M*rk J*nkins and J*hn D*gan who also voted for it. If I click on one of the latter two it only shows 2 vots for the album

En Yay Sah is the abum. Oops

His creative monomania made for stunts this year that were inspired (keeping two bands, one male and one female, on the road with him and telling them at breakfast each morning who would be playing that night)

so inspired

american music listeners are generally incurious about american music, and there are ways to demonstrate that with P&J stats. but bringing Springsteen into it seems pointless, especially since some years the number is 0 and some years it's 10 or 13, doesn't bring anything into stark relief.

curmudgeon: yeah, there's still some glitch with the voter-list pages on the Voice side. I have everybody on my version: http://furia.com/pjs/artist_8470.html...

Is the propensity for dumbass pronouncements like Light's above a generational thing? Are younger music critics less prone to that kind of gushy post-David Fricke bullshit? Obviously, young critics have their own horrifying things going on, but I'm curious about this.

I mention Springsteen as there is a clear pattern of P&J ranking his output a lot higher than you would expect looking at other EOY lists from around the world.

I have seen the future of afrobeatz-dubstep-trap-rock and its name is _________

"nu-skiffle"

Last year tune-yards deservedly won. This year only one album in the top five was made by white men (and they're Canadian. Also rubbish) Compared to other polls, they aren't really that male-wasp-centric, right?

thx for Test Artist, Zach, one to watch out for in the oh-thirteen

also Farrah Abraham over Alicia Keys feels like the worst thinkpiece waiting to happen

36 voters for the Springsteen album. One of whom, Robert Christgau, has some non-North Americans on his list, have not looked at the others.

Regarding the decline of the P & J electorate this year, in many years past most of the NY Times critics would also submit ballots, but no Caramanica or Pareles this year. Also, some of the folks from the Slate roundtable opted out.

Actually, in previous years (when I was co-poobah anyway), the NY Times critics didn't need to submit ballots, since we would just take their votes straight off their top 10 lists in the Times. It's possible the current regime doesn't know that's allowed (assuming it still is, but I don't know why it wouldn't be).

I bet that detail just fell through the transition cracks. I'll mention it to Brian.

Wonder if they reached out to add contributors-- metal, rap, salsa, southern soul, country, dancehall, or edm or whatever specialists. Probably not, although that ilx critics 2012 thread probably includes names they should try to reach out to next year (even if that won't impact the top of the ballot much, it would be more inclusive)

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2012/2266645/

timeless jokes

hilarious fake dylan song title

The four dance albums in my personal top ten got 1 vote between the four of them (Andy Battaglia for Young Smoke's Space Zone)

I don't think they reached out to anyone, tbh. What an irrelevant, lazy mess McManus cobbled together.

It's still the largest such poll, but it could have been better. Prior poobahs have also noted the time-consuming nature of trying to find contact addresses for people

Plus in the past, various people here noted that some folks who write about music(especially non-pop genres) do not care about voting in a large poll like this.

Pazz & Jop Metal(lic) stuff

7 Swans, The Seer
24 Baroness, Yellow & Green
42 Converge, All We Love We Leave Behind
53 Goat, World Music
56 Metz, Metz
58 Pallbearer, Sorrow and Extinction
60 Sleigh Bells, Reign of Terror
69 Redd Kross, Researching the Blues
79 Rush, Clockwork Angels
119 Torche, Harmonicraft
146 Van Halen, A Different Kind of Truth
150 Pig Destroyer, Book Burner
152 Witchcraft, Legend
157 Ufomammut, Oro: Opus Primum & Alter
162 Gojira, L'Enfant Sauvage
167 Royal Thunder, Cvi

I may have missed some and I stopped at the top 200.

So if we wanna split hairs about what is and isn't metal... I guess that Pallbearer is the undisputed metal record for mainstream music critics.

(Cue someone screaming that Pallbearer isn't real metal.)

I feel that Woods of Ypres could have had more support if more non-metal people had heard them.

yes.

There's never a whole lot of metal in the poll, and this year you can also probably blame me and Brandon Stosuy, who both turned in far less-metal ballots than last year. At least Phil Freeman didn't do another all Latin thing. Darnielle should totally vote, too.

Hey, I liked his all Latin thing!

My ballot. It's too bad you stopped looking at 200, because Emmure is definitely metal and I voted for Manowar this year, for hell's sake.

it's funny how crits who love Taylor Swift seem less and less enthusiastic about each new project but they keep doing better and better on P&J because more and more crits get on the bus. mildly shocked at the top 10 placing for the single, though, that's gotta be one of the worst things Taylor or Max Martin has ever done.

a TON of pop-leaning critics i know who previously hadn't given a shit about taylor/thought she was just boring clean-cut country before absolutely loved that single

completely baffling even though i like it

yeah and those people def wouldn't have given a shit if that song was by Avril or something

"We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" isn't my favorite Taylor song by a long shot (I voted for "Eyes Open"), but it doesn't surprise me that it had a crossover effect in a year with "Call Me Maybe".

Interesting that of the 34 people who voted for Red, only 12 voted for Speak Now, and only 5 for Fearless. But then, of the 35 who voted for Speak Now, only 10 voted for Fearless. So it's less of a fixed clique than you might have guessed.

My impression is that people who were neutral/negative about Taylor Swift encountered that song mostly as a catchy tune that just happened to be by Taylor Swift -- and liked it more than longstanding Taylor fans who were potentially put off by it for lots of reasons.

yeah that's kinda what i meant, though, glenn -- the taylor crit crew is a rapidly growing and changing voting bloc

from my experience Red was the breakthrough record for a lot of skeptics: a combination of resignation (she's here to stay) and acknowledgment that she can write a good song.

sort of a "she's here to stay" non-quite-corollary. The first madonna album to make the p'n'jop top 40 was Like A Prayer, with Erotica, Bedtime Stories, Ray of Light and Music all placing.

yeah good point

Although those repeat numbers look basically the same for Bruce Springsteen's last three records and Bob Dylan's, both of which I'd expect to have fairly fixed constituencies at this point. For that matter, only 11 of the 34 voters for Swing Lo Magellan voted for Bitte Orca. So maybe Taylor's not really a very different case. What an idea: critics don't necessarily always just vote for their favorite bands over and over.

Also, of the 7 people who voted for Mastodon's "Curl of the Burl" in 2011, 5 of them voted for "Call Me Maybe" in 2012.

yeah i will admit that i can be calculating to the extent that i don't like having the same artists in my top 10 album over and over, so sometimes i might really love 2 records in a row from an artist but unless i like the later one more than the first, i will probably bump it down to the 11-15 range

Might the critics who embraced T-Swift from the start be less enthusiastic about each subsequent album in part *because* others have jumped on board? That is, for those early fans, maybe she's no longer a pet cause in need of constant praise?

Personally, I thought Red was a step up from Speak Now -- but mostly b/c I like when she does big teen-pop anthems.

I think the tendency for artists to linger on p n j isn't so much a cult but that once an artist is officially critic approved, other critics are more inclined to check out the next album. More people said 'hey new xtc album' circa oranges and lemons than circa drums and wires

It's like how players with crappy years go to the Pro Bowl anyway because the year before they were pretty good. It's like skating by on reputation.

I was very much on board for the last two t-swifts. Red hasn't grabbed me yet; not sure why.

Might the critics who embraced T-Swift from the start be less enthusiastic about each subsequent album in part *because* others have jumped on board? That is, for those early fans, maybe she's no longer a pet cause in need of constant praise?

i doubt it, because that would be a pretty weird way to think.

for all that red contains a couple of token stylistic shifts, i don't really feel that it's a radical change in direction or quality so much that it would convert a previous taylor hater or turn off a previous taylor fan - i think of her last three albums as sufficiently different that direct comparisons don't make much sense, but also similar in how they make me react.

lol "The Motto" got zero votes (in 2012 or in 2011)

you only vote once

Artists lingering in P&j 40: the Van Morrison Clause.

it's funny how Christgau wrote an essay lamenting that the Neil Youngs and Loudon Wainwrights he loved would be neglected by P&J and then almost immediately had to issue an addendum that they hadn't

I still don't understand why 20-somethings are collectively supposed to give a shit about what Neil Young and Loudon Wainwright are doing.

you rootless young people

RC doesn't actually say anything of the kind, you're loosely paraphrasing my loose paraphrase

I read the article.

ok so your post makes no sense at all

I can't find it now to refer back to it. But I could swear he had his depends up in a bunch because young critics weren't giving his old farts their dues.

i mean he laments in a passive-aggressive way. but it's more like old man shrugs at cloud, laughs at himself for expecting a sunny day.

but then i don't really feel implicated since i was one of the weirdos born after 1980 who did listen to the Loudon Wainwright and Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen and Van Halen and Donald Fagen and Little Feat albums

c'mon ship: the new breed, we take care of our own.

Disappointed in him for dismissing/deploring Psych Pill, esp consid hairy-assed NY&CH jams he's prev approv

that post is like a call from someone who's driving out of their cell range, you get less and less of each word as you go along

lol

y!

little feat had an album? 0_o

their first without richie hayward :( it was pretty good though

Lowell George has been dead since '79

and they've been touring and recording nonstop without him since '87

Also, of the 7 people who voted for Mastodon's "Curl of the Burl" in 2011, 5 of them voted for "Call Me Maybe" in 2012.

This is now my favourite P&J-related statistic of the year.

Glenn were you one?

Plus in the past, various people here noted that some folks who write about music(especially non-pop genres) do not care about voting in a large poll like this.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:30 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this year feels that much more self-selecting than usual though that may just be an error in my perception

dunno whether this is related (or even what if anything it "means") but over half of the ballots voted for at least one of the top three and over two-thirds voted for at least one of the top nine

(albums)

could mean there were a few very very good albums released this year that most people were able to appreciate.
feel like kendrick, ocean, killer mike were appreciated by everyone i know
/kael

Those percentages aren't terribly different than in prior years. And actually, if you take out the #1s and instead count the % of ballots that included at least one of the #2-10 albums, you get this:

2008: 64%
2009: 64%
2010: 70%
2011: 66%
2012: 62%

does anyone know who patrick mcna11y is or where he writes? i am fucking w/ his ballot but i can't find him on google because he has the same name as a hockey player.

I think he used to write for Stylus, and is English, but that's all I got. http://www.stylusmagazine.com/feature.php?ID=2177

wow, 249 new answers! r.i.p. P&J.

i didn't even look at it online. but good job anyway, glenn! with everything you do in life.

xp ty!

yeah, for my part i would usually check this out as soon as it came out, but i'm only just getting around to it. i guess the timing wasn't any different than usual but i was impossibly burnt out on lists this year. anyway i hope it's not actually going anywhere--it's still the only list thing i go back to outside the months of december and january.

Also, I voted for neither Mastodon nor Carly Rae Jepsen. Though I prefer the latter to the former.

does anyone know what the situation with this is -- do you have to re-submit your details if you were previously on the list?

hit up Jack Buehrer @ villagevoice.com if you want to vote

https://twitter.com/jack_buehrer/status/535775645339750400

i think the question is whether you have to contact him if you already voted last year or if you'll be automatically invited again

yeah I've voted previous years

as always, a reminder that voting in pazz and jop legitimizes a company that is attempting to murder good music writing

it's 2014, who the fuck isn't

lol exactly

2014: The Year That Pazz & Jop Broke

Do people still care about this thing?

Depends what you mean by care--people use "care" and "take an interest in" interchangeably. I haven't cared since probably 1987, when I actively wanted "What Have I Done to Deserve This" to win singles, and was disappointed when it didn't. I don't think I've actually rooted for anything since--maybe "Work It," a little bit. But I continue to be interested in the results enough to...look at them? And say "Oh, that won"? That's it. And as soon as I started voting in the mid-'90s, the only thing I cared about from that point forward was whether or not they published something from my comments.

haha otm

it's 2014, who the fuck isn't

― katherine, Sunday, November 23, 2014 1:18 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

plenty of places that don't ask you to help do mouth-to-mouth to their respectability for free

my opinions on pop music are not respectable so it's okay

pazz & jop hasn't even been interesting for years, it just mirrors every pitchfork list with a dash of lol old people

Yes, that's what us old people are for--decorative laughs.

decorative laugs > votes for sun kil moon

Someone will have to translate that for me. I'm old.

I remember when I used to religiously read the Pazz & Jop, read all the essays and extracts, check what I already owned and think about what I should think about picking up- before I turned into Abe Simpson.

like the pitchfork list is "interesting" either

know what's always an interesting list that everyone in this thread can participate in very easily? the ilx top 77 albums and singles of 2014

yeah seriously are people worried about putting this on their cv or something

village voice media is full of assholes, so is ilm, pitchfork, gawker, whatever. i'm not picky tbh, i like fraternizing with assholes.

I feel like I've "made it", ILX-wise.

my pazz & jop was great, sorry jordan

i certainly preferred its top 10 to pitchfork's too. whokill > bon iver for years.

whokill beating let england shake by like ten points or so yeah that was a pretty good year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFI_hgfLXnw

You are the generation of music crits that bought "lol old people"and you get what you deserve.

know what's always an interesting list that everyone in this thread can participate in very easily? the ilx top 77 albums and singles of 2014

This is true. I am also biased.

http://www.youtube.com/lg1mVv3Z4Xk

the ilx poll has been the only EOY poll i'm actively "interested" in for several years now

http://www.youtube.com/v/lg1mVv3Z4Xk

the pazz and jop poll has the distinct benefit of not crashing my browser whenever I try to load it, so there's that

Let's send our ballots to the music of laptops on fire playing War on Drugs and Sun Kil Moon

the pazz and jop poll has the distinct benefit of not crashing my browser whenever I try to load it, so there's that

― katherine, Sunday, November 23, 2014 10:04 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's not the permalink, it's the cumulative effect of 77 youtube embeds

at any rate, as a music writer in 2014 I feel far less discouraged by any individual site than by the way asking a simple question always seems to turn into an elaborate morality calculus where the only moral option presented to writers is to disappear and/or make zero income

it's not the permalink, it's the cumulative effect of 77 youtube embeds

We haven't done youtube embeds since j0rd and seandalai and I took it over. Just beautiful pictures!

point taken, perhaps I have been avoiding the wrong threads

Speaking of old people, they/we sometimes get too much credit for not spilling the Depends, but this year we did bring these worthy contenders for the Top Ten:
Complete Basement Tapes, with 33 (counting 2 unlisted) tracks apparently not bootlegged (pre-release, anyway0, so it doesn't automatically fall into usual category of "doesn't count because these boots have been easily available forever."
Ditto In The Orbit of Ra: Marshall Allen had all this amazing stuff, but most collectors probably don't.
Robert Wyatt's Different Every Time is very strong and wide-ranging, regardless of who might already have it all.
Sonny Rollins' The Road Shows Vol. 3 continues with prev. unreleased live shots from this century.

I liked the Lucinda Williams and Neil Young doubles a lot more than expected, also L. Cohen's latest---those three are imperfect, but can't be dismissed from (my)Top Ten considerations yet (well maybe Cohen). Jerry Lee Lewis's Rock & Roll Time can---it's real good, but not a killer set from the Killer, as The Knox Phillips Sessions may be; need to check that, Soused, Marianne Faithful, Willie Nelson's December Day (Band of Brothers is mostly a cranky ol' rich guy's bumper sticker collection), and the Peru Bravo comp. Prob won't check Floyd.

oops, didn't mean to say "we" again, just "this year did bring these worthy" etc. Merely middle-aged and younger contenders incl Drive-By Truckers, tuneyards, Parquet Courts, St. Vincent, Perfume Genius, Lydia Loveless, Guerilla Toss.

Oh, and back to the geez: Jon Langford & Skull Orchard!

at any rate, as a music writer in 2014 I feel far less discouraged by any individual site than by the way asking a simple question always seems to turn into an elaborate morality calculus where the only moral option presented to writers is to disappear and/or make zero income

― katherine, Sunday, 23 November 2014 22:22 (1 hour ago) Permalink

It's hard out here, harder than ever.

Look, I read P4K and like a lot of the writers, but the results of that end of year writers' poll are...boring. P&J can be predictable but it's more interesting, and I guess I look to it (and vote in it) because I like to get a sense of where the aggregate of writers' heads/interests are, not to mention the joy of Glenn's data parsing.

(All of that said, ILM poll is so fucking fun.)

Let's all hold hands and sing together!

I'm definitely inclined to participate in P&J at least as long as Glenn is the don of stats (well, yeah)

The interesting question is: does weird al have a shot?

When did that Glen & Don meme on ilx originate?

i dunno if i will but i honestly have thought about putting Weird Al in my top 10. top 20 for sure.

I love Weird Al and I think Mandatory Fun is great, but for whatever reason my relationship with Weird Al is more like watching Bugs Bunny than that I'd have with a musician. That's not fair to him, of course, because his talent is singular, but that's just how it goes. The album won't even be in consideration for me.

When did that Glen & Don meme on ilx originate?

― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs)

DON: We discovered that certain, shall we say, underemployed music writers thought it would be a cool or hip thing to insult us, despite the fact that none of them could claim our accompmlishments.

the usefulness of p&j for me is that it's helped me discover writers, as in liking their ballots-->googling for their writing-->adding them to my rss. there are good critics who don't post on ilx or write for pitchfork....

GLEN: Well yeah
(xpost,darn it)

I may vote for "Word Crimes," but that's it.

Okay, I finally learned the spelling GLENN Frey, as in Glenn "da croupier is rong" macdonald.

Must have had a mental blecchblock

mc

Anybody looking for work?

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2014/12/wanted_music_editor.php

Does McManus have a new gig lined up?

mcmanus is at buzzfeed

Thought you meant

can ppl plz make "ain't it fun" the winner somehow

can ppl plz make "shake it off" not the winner somehow?

would it be wrong to request a ballot renewal just to vote for shake it off 10 times just to spite snrub and because shake it off is the best song ever but mostly to spite snrub

Did we figure out yet if those of us on the list in previous years were still on the list, or if the whole thing was being scrubbed clean?

Best bet is probably just to get in touch.

jbuehrer at villagevoice dot com

pazzandjop at

he's responding too

Lol I still haven't heard "Shake It Off" or any of her new songs. Fuck Taylor Swift and her preening white princess act.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/tasteofcountry.com/files/2014/01/taylor-subtlewindblownhair.gif

xpost

Least characteristic ILM post ever? (though I'm glad it exists)

Not sure when I've ever had two seconds of time for her?

http://instagram.com/p/wJs0UaxF3d/

love u rev

welp i got an invitation email despite not being a music critic and previously sending in horrible joke ballots guess i gotta do this

For singles, please omit the quotation marks -- just Shake It Off as opposed to "Shake It Off."

oh god they personalized it

lol they all say that. the example in the 2010 e-mail was more firmly tongue-in-cheek:

For singles, please omit the quotation marks -- just Hey, Soul Sister as
opposed to "Hey, Soul Sister."

(i voted for "Hey, Soul Sister" that year)

oh i know

now when i vote for shake it off 10 times they're gonna think i'm trolling them and not mr snrub :(

jk they'll never read it

I will read your ballot. Or my computer will, at least. But then, it will also delete duplicate votes.

glenn, do you find you have to put a lot of work into identifying string variants of the same title? For the ILM poll we force people to work of a nominations list, so anything that's not on the list can be flagged up for inspection; I've always assumed that allowing write-ins would cause too many headaches...

That's most of the work. Or, to put it another way, that work and the software I wrote to do it is how I came to be the one who tabulates the thing...

So has everyone but me gotten a ballot for this?

no possible pazz & jop troll would be nearly as ridiculous as some of the most centrist ballots from years past

no possible pazz & jop troll would be nearly as ridiculous as some of the most centrist ballots from years past we'll see this year.

What is a centrist ballot? I need to know if I submit centrists ballots.

If we notice you voted for Hilary Clinton.

The KLF song with Tammy Wynette made me think of Hillary Clinton in 1991, when she said she wasn't a stand-by-your-man type of political wife (even though she was), and I think I had that on my list that year. But it wasn't Pazz & Jop.

Lol I still haven't heard "Shake It Off" or any of her new songs. Fuck Taylor Swift and her preening white princess act.

― burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb ranks (The Reverend), Friday, December 5, 2014 4:44 AM Bookmark

btw I finally heard this and was like "oh, this actually isn't that bad" until it got to the rap at which point I had a deep moment of hatred for the entire world

it's not an act, she really is a preening white princess iirc

voted

taylor is kind of smugly imperious in a molly ringwald way, but without the cool taste in music and the awesome red hair.

still dk why everyone calls that part a rap

What is a centrist ballot? I need to know if I submit centrists ballots.

― clemenza, Thursday, December 11, 2014 7:56 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfU3hI8ML30

still dk why everyone calls that part a rap

― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Friday, December 12, 2014 9:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i kinda get it but it's such a willful mischaracterization

idk I only heard about 4 seconds of it before mashing the station buttons

that part is less inspired by rap and more inspired by
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BacyphpxYSo
(had never heard this version before btw)

ok these days i don't even know which of the bridge sections is the "rap"

Everybody voted? Poll closes 11:59 tonight!

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/poll/

ballot should be expanded to Top 20, y/n? i say yes.

or 15, i'd setttle for 15

Yeah it would be way more interesting if ballots were at least 20. But that's what ILM Poll is for!

it's hard enough to figure out how to distribute my points with just 10 albums as it is (this year i went with 15 points each for the top 5, 5 points each for the other 5).

one of the only good things about pazz & jop now is that the writer lists are at least digestible

last thing music internet needs is more long lists where people name the records they kinda liked

Agree with the second part of that completely.

me too, and I don't disagree with the general concept, but that's really never the case for me at 11-15

but whatevs

by general concept i mean make ppl narrow it down to the true cream of the crop

I usually give every album 10 points unless I've got an underdog I wanna see charting higher.

I always do 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5

last thing music internet needs is more long lists where people name the records they kinda liked

My "cream" of top 10 don't really get all that much significantly more playtime than my 11-50. And many of the lists I've seen have turned me onto great albums that were on the bottom half of the top 100. There are more than 270 albums that I much more than "kinda" liked this year.

cool

that's why you have your own website

some dude's RUDE love got me considering it for my singles ballot

Re worthwhile music new (& often by artists prev. unknown)to me, ILM has been at least as helpful as any other site in the cyberverse this year. Thanks yall!

i wonder which widely-viewed-as-basic pop song(s?) will do place well in the singles category. katy perry has placed many such songs in the top 40 in previous years so i suppose she could do it again. or maybe meghan trainor will do it. will "happy" rightly be ignored?

i think there won't be a lot of big pop hits doing well on Pazz & Jop this year. "Problem" and "Stay With Me" and "Happy" and "Shake It Off" will probably do alright. doubt "All About That Bass" will get too many votes. consensus seems stronger with rap and R&B singles, although there'll still be vote-splitting as to, say, the best Young Thug song or best DJ Mustard production.

"Rude" ended up at #54 on my year-end singles list, but "Rather Be" and "Dark Horse" are on my P&J ballot.

"dark horse" was the #2 on my singles ballot. i loved "chandelier" but didn't include it because 1000 forms of fear is on my albums ballot and i didn't want to double-dip.

i would guess 'turn down for what' will poll high

I put one VERY BIG HIT on my ballot. Sort of. You'll see. I'm anticipating it getting no other votes in the form I listed, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

"Made Me" vs. "Dark Horse" is my last dilemma, I think

it's hard enough to figure out how to distribute my points with just 10 albums as it is (this year i went with 15 points each for the top 5, 5 points each for the other 5).

― some dude, Friday, December 26, 2014 9:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ugh i hate the way p&j annually makes me do maths on xmas day

last thing music internet needs is more long lists where people name the records they kinda liked

music internet could do with a lot more personal lists being shared around than collective lists

i just did ten points for everything. i hated whittling it down to ten albums so i might as well treat them all equally.

normally I try to do tiers and ideally the top tier would be 25 points but inevitably the sum careens toward 100 fast enough that I have to ding albums I actually liked (I usually give out a few 5s at the end but try to slot consensus picks there, as they don't need my scoring help).

or you could not vote for consensus picks in the hope that P&J doesn't look like every other list + old fart picks by writers who haven't liked a new artist in 25 years

or I could vote for what I liked most instead of playing Rock Paper Scissors with a straw man

I really liked "The Candy Song" by the Masters of Reality in 1988. That was the last new music I liked, so it's actually 26 years.

any reason not to post our ballots here?

1. music went to shit in the '00s

that seems like a very abstract reason.

in any case, i will bet you a shiny dollar coin that kendrick wins AOY in a walk and probably beibs for the single?

i guess bc the ballots will all be made public in the fullness of time (a few weeks)?

point allocation is always a matter of "how much maths can i be bothered to do in my holiday fug"

can you actually bet on a kendrick win on any betting site, because it's so obvious i would actually do that

Poor Pazz and Jop. How the mighty have fallen. I remember back five, ten years ago ILM actually CARED about it, mannnn. With anticipation threads and shit. What the hell happened?

capitalism

There's got to be at least a dozen different answers to that. My own feeling is that what happened to the Voice wouldn't be close to #1.

1) too many lists before P&J
2) more critics (although not as many as in, say, 2005)
3) more critics who don't give a damn for P&J
4) collapse of so-called "monoculture"
5) VV's own problems

Sounds about right. Also, even though I only posted a few times in 2005 (under my own name, before disappearing for three years), is it a fair statement that there is less activity on ILM today than there was then? Plus the VV editor regularly posted here in 2005.

As big as your #1, and it's hard to put into words, is that the idea of this really important, "authoritative" list is just dead in 2015. (I guess a version of your #4.) That had already started to happen in 2005, probably even 5-10 years before that (the heyday of P&J for me and my friends was the mid-late '80s). The only such poll that still sort of feels that way to me is the Sight & Sound 10-year poll, most obviously because of its infrequency, also because there's not currently anything like it, except for maybe the They Shoot Pictures Don't They list (which is just a compendium of other lists). And maybe that's dying, too, I don't know. I'm sure they welcomed the first new #1 in 50 years last time--kept it in the news.

in any case, i will bet you a shiny dollar coin that kendrick wins AOY in a walk and probably beibs for the single?

― Does that make you mutter, under your breath, “Damn”? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, December 29, 2015 4:03 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think it'll be JB with the #1 single, especially since I don't even know which one of his would place highest, but he'll probably have a couple pretty high up. but it's hard to say what #1 will be. could be "Hotline Bling" or "Alright" or "Trap Queen" or "Uptown Funk" or "Can't Feel My Face" but none of them feels like a lock.

Forgot to vote. Oh, well.

Weren't you going to also vote for Natalia Lafourcade...? Now I may be the only one...

i'd guess the highest placing Bieber will be Where Are U Now. Uptown Funk got enough votes last year that I doubt it'd win this time

i don't disagree with both of you above re: single, just trying to start a conversation given the dearth of interest for all the (real) reasons posted above. i get nostalgic for the days p&j got everyone whipped up.

"Plus the VV editor regularly posted here in 2005."

she also posted here from 2011-2012 fyi

(and the poll that ran in early 2012 had the highest turnout of recent years cough)

Chuck being Chuck (or Chuck being male, take your pick), his presence was a little louder? (Incidentally, I'm still recovering from my 2011 ballot not being counted, thereby costing Foster the People 10th spot on the singles list and forever altering the course of history.)

I don't think anyone's arguing that P&J isn't bigger (as measured by number of voters) than ever, just trying to explain why it's not as big a deal as 10 or 15 or 20 years ago.

people in being defensive about erasing women's contributions shocker

but w/e

gradually, P&J poll has replaced my own personal best-of list for the year. I don't compile one except to submit it to P&J, and it's the only real record I have of what I liked from any given year (apart from just looking at my play counts on LastFM). There are too many effin polls, too many critics, too many best-of-lists. What's worse, most of them are the same list, slightly reorganized for each publication. What I like about P&J is that there is no single editorial voice behind the results, no aesthetic to appease or approximate.

as a second-year voter I'm still pretty excited about it

Surely the ILX EOY means more, or are we going to blithely assume P&J is a broader church (lol)

weird, didn't get a ballot this year

um
http://www.villagevoice.com/microsites/pazzandjop

Missed the deadline this year, and only very mildly annoyed about that. I published one album review all year, I think, and a smattering of Singles Jukebox entries, so I barely feel like I qualify anymore to begin with. The ILM results are lately far more interesting anyway, even though I expect that this year both P&J and ILM will once again share a first-place album finisher (wholly deserved this time).

"See who our critics crown the top artists of 2015!"

makes it sound like we all work for Village Voice. and have an interest in crowns.

here's a fun-ish pre-P&J game to play: Kendrick wins the album poll by the largest margin since ________ (fill in the blank, obvs).

MBDTF? Further back?

i was serious about the betting thing, it's not offered by any of my usual sites

what do you usually bet on? tennis?

can I bet on my centricity rating being at least 25% less... centric than it was in years prior? it's been that sort of year

i heard there are gold stars for that

glenn's stat pages are really half of why i still vote in this

Kendrick wins the album poll by the largest margin since ________

outkast

The counting is underway.

i heard there are gold stars for that

― probably.tasteful.forever (imago), Tuesday, December 29, 2015 3:43 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck's sake it's just a statement of fact

what do you usually bet on? tennis?

― i got a really big steen, and they need some really big zings (some dude), Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

y

never ever music or politics usually

i would honestly be surprised if there was any traditional betting organization that was taking bets on anything music-related. maybe Bieber vs. One Direction first week could've been a fun thing to bet on.

i suppose maybe people take bets on the Grammys but definitely not remotely as much as they do for the Oscars.

betting on the mercury prize seems to be an annual thing among british critics (have never done it myself as the outcome almost always seems a bit too random

Established online betting means it seems you can bet on almost anything in the UK though.