The 40 Most Boring ‘Classic’ Albums by challopsy critics

you know that Sister will win this, right?

Easy. Sister.

Bowie, with Prince second.

Ha. xpost. Although would vote for Bowie second.

I think Led Zep might beat Sonic Youth

and dont rule out prince fans

sister, then king crimson

or neil young

1. The Hissing of Summer Lawns
2. Sister
3. Physical Graffiti

Trans

Whoops, didn't see King Crimson, swap that for the Led Zep.

Trans was once a 'Classic' album?

this list is kind of baffling

Oh Jane's Addiction for sure

dave marsh is no fun

had didn't notice the beatles album in there

Are we voting for the most boring? Or the best album as a fuck you to the list?

Which album is the best here?

Pshaw. You expect me to read?

PG won the Zep albums poll iirc...?

Trans, Ritual, PG, Let it Be, Diver Down, Diamond Dogs all great records. ATWIAD is pretty good but the ballads really weigh it down.

oh shit I voted for most boring.

lol

You didn't read!

the rev really is a fan of that stevie wonder album

dont let him fool you

Pretty funny list, but if Marsh had any guts he would've included Nebraska.

Thick As A Brick.

Voted Kiss even though I like a couple others better, maybe, because I am really pissed anyone could call that album boring. Lame, crass commercialism? I can accept those. But boring? Nay.

no layla, no credibility

dave marsh is the guy who does the rock and roll hall of fame?

Among other things.

http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Marsh/e/B000AP5FP0

Prince, over Joni.

prince will try it on with anyone wont he?

sister then HoSL

In what world is "Trans" boring?

Which one's the most boring would have been fun too.

I doubt Janes Addiction or Sonic Youth will ever be getting in the hall of fame

uhh

Which one's the most boring would have been fun too.

― pplains,

I'd get banned if i started another poll! Feel free to do it however. Would be funny if the top 10 were the same.

oh shit didn't even see Hissing on here. that album is great

Voted The Wall.

What a bizarre list. Some of these are records no one anywhere has ever considered 'classic'.

In what world are most of these considered classic? Subjectively, such a list would include stuff like Moondance, Layla, etc.; if I put my own feelings aside, you might have Yo La Tengo's I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One, R.E.M.'s Automatic for the People, etc. But Kansas, Sting, and a late-period Who album?

king crimson is my favorite of those

Who the fuck ever spent 5 minutes thinking about The Juliet Letters?

Xpost lol the very first thing that popped into my head when I saw the thread title was Moondance

Blondes Have More Fun: I remember how rock critics really rallied around that one.

crimson v tull v jane's, good reasons for voting for each (best single piece of music, best whole album, best 27-minute 3-track run of unspeakable glory respectively)

HMMM

oh uh Yessongs is pretty damn decent too. not heard Sister yet.

Im not sure when this list is from. tarfumes might have the book.

btw check out this one
http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/world_critics_lists.htm

Barely skimmed this, but I think it captures the general feeling at the time. (And I like "Da Ya Think I'm Sexy?" just fine.)

and the rolling stone record guide 1979
http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/rs_guide79.htm

2004
http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/rs_guide04.htm

In what world are most of these considered classic? Subjectively, such a list would include stuff like Moondance, Layla, etc.; if I put my own feelings aside, you might have Yo La Tengo's I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One, R.E.M.'s Automatic for the People, etc. But Kansas, Sting, and a late-period Who album?

Well, at least the Kansas album contains two classic rock radio staples. It's an FM rock classic, surely known by many more people than any YLT album (and it is pretty damn boring!). But yeah, I don't know who considers these classic:

2. Another Ticket – Eric Clapton
9. Diver Down – Van Halen
17. It’s Hard – Who
18. Juliet Letters – Elvis Costello/Brodsky Quartet
25. Pictures at an Exhibition – ELP
32. Neither Fish Nor Flesh – Terence Trent D’Arby
36. True Stories – Talking Heads

I'ma vote GENESIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG53nM03iac

That Genesis track rules
"No reply at all" too, and "Abacab", I can live without the rest tho

Voted Sister but Zep is close.

(xpost) One thing that makes this list so bizarre is that there are albums by Eric Clapton, the Who, Elvis Costello, Terence Trent D’Arby, and the Talking Heads that would fit this concept perfectly. (Tommy or Quadrophenia would especially seem made to order for a lover of early Who like Marsh.) But the second TTD album, which hardly got any notice at all the time?

wait, 'diamond dogs' is boring?

not to me it isn't. It was always my fave Bowie!

best 27-minute 3-track run of unspeakable glory respectively

31 minutes. 4 tracks.

are you including 'classic girl' or 'been caught stealing', neither are remotely as good as what's between imo

classic girl's not as good, but it's inextricable. I couldn't end just on of course

iirc DJP has the definitive opinion on this

http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/dmarshsi.html
Dave Marsh Lists

Sister

true stories inclusion is rly bizarre

did any of the strange choices get rave reviews at the time though?

Yeah, It's Hard did, by Parke Puterbaugh in RS, but it doesn't really count, since it was a comically transparent play for exclusive tour access/coverage.

Even getting rave reviews at the time isn't the same thing as being a classic album.

yeah but if they were just out they might have thought it was going to be a future classic

The list is from 1994. They're not getting a pass on those grounds.

It's Hard was '82--my recollection is that the early '80s were when Rolling Stone was most notoriously handing out inflated ratings to fading icons.

why are Tribe.. in this list?? seems particularly harsh to judge a debut by a band barely out of their teens the same as Trans or whatever.

Run-DMC's Down with the King was considered a classic one year after its release? For real, were they thinking of King of Rock?

no surprise that I am going w/Sister, but HOSL, Led Zep, and King Crimson come very close.

ritual "to" habitual ???

first tt d'arby record is superb

wiil vote sister anyways

fuck no, im voting trans

yeah the first D'arby album is amazing no question.

Voted Sister before I saw Trans, but tbh I think I made the right decision anyway - much as I love 'Transformer Man' I haven't listened to the rest of the album for ages and seem to remember it wasn't all quite so good.

I mean, otherwise I'd be justified in voting for Kilroy Was Here just for the masterpiece that is 'Mr Roboto'.

Zep, easy.

bowie

in what universe is "storm front" considered classic

oh 1994 i see

Leningrad was a bit of a tune (hides under table).

"woman in red" is technically a V/A record, not a stevie wonder one

Zep > Yes > CSN > King Crimson > Stones > Beatles

"Diamond Dogs" has a flawless Side A imo.

yeah--diamond dogs, the sweet thing trilogy, rebel--that's pretty perfect

side 2 has some stinkers though

i'm sure there's another david bowie choice that would've fit better

Young Americans has about as much filler as Diamond Dogs

yeah "Across the universe" cover is straight up bad

The list is from 1994. They're not getting a pass on those grounds.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, February 8, 2013 4:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's Hard was '82--my recollection is that the early '80s were when Rolling Stone was most notoriously handing out inflated ratings to fading icons.

― clemenza, Friday, February 8, 2013 4:47 PM (1 hour ago)

Maybe it's the original list from the '81 book with some newer albums thrown in ca. '94? That's what I'm guessing.

handing out inflated ratings to fading icons.
i don't think this has stopped yet.

True Brad, the proportion of good to bad is probably close to the same on both records...

choosing the most boring of these would be tough

how could this not be Physical Graffiti?

Maybe it's the original list from the '81 book with some newer albums thrown in ca. '94? That's what I'm guessing.

― timellison, Friday, February 8, 2013 9:47 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nope, this list didn't appear in the '81 edition (although many of the lists in the '94 edition did).

It seems like a lot of these are widely acknowledged to be weak entries in the catalogs of respected artists. It seems like "Let It Be" is the consensus worst Beatles album, and "True Stories" the worst Talking Heads. A few are surprising though like "Sister" which seems to be a lot of people's favorite Sonic Youth (not mine though). Anyway, my favorite of this bunch is "Diamond Dogs", probably my favorite Bowie album, though I'm not a huge Bowie fan.

I think that's why it makes more sense to include Sister in a list like this: at least it is considered a classic album by fans of its genre.

Sister is great but PG is god.

The four albums on that list that make perfect sense to me are Crosby, Stills & Nash, In the Court of the Crimson King, Wheels of Fire. and The Wall. They're a) considered classics (or at least were at one time), and b) I can imagine, independent of my own feelings, people calling them boring. There are a handful of others that meet the first condition (e.g., Sister, Physical Graffiti), but for someone who didn't like them, I think the complaints would generally be something other than boring. The rest don't even meet the first condition. (I'm talking about critical reception, and I think that would be Marsh's frame of reference too.)

To be fair, when Marsh put together that list, music -- especially "classic" music -- hadn't really perfected the idea of being boring yet. It's made amazing strides forward since, though. List might make way more sense if he did it now.

The SY and LZ albums contain long, meandering songs, which can bore some people.

many of these seem to be less "boring classic albums" than "boring albums by bands who have made classic albums at some point in their careers."

I was just thinking that most classic-rock fans, hearing Sonic Youth for the first time, would say "noisy" or "not music" or "out of tune" or "stupid," rather than boring. But yeah, them and Led Zeppelin do go on sometimes.

I started to make up my own list, got up to about eight and stopped. I don't really want to antagonize people by casually listing some album I haven't listened to for 10 or 20 years.

The SY and LZ albums contain long, meandering songs, which can bore some people.

I dunno, the only song over 5:00 on Sister is "Kotton Krown," and most of the songs are pretty fast. I'm wondering if they really meant Daydream Nation. In fact, given the numerous typos and other errors in this edition*, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the case.

*the table of contents is missing page numbers, the Who's "I Can't Explain" was released in 1956, and a Zeppelin lyric is attributed to the wrong song.

That Moody Blues album -- 4 stars in the first edition of the Rolling Stone Record Guide -- makes sense to me up there, even if the singles are pretty.

Too bad nobody alerted him to Loveless. (That wouldn't have too late to make the cut, right? That Costello album was apparently 1993.)

And I wonder if he'd read my Rolling Stone review of that Tribe Called Quest record.

when I say an album is "boring" I usually mean "I haven't made any attempt to engage with this and I'm not going to lol" & it's pretty much the same when critics do it, which is fine I guess but "boring" is a pretty boring criticism really. I mean anyone could rattle off a list like this. If this were written now it'd probably be worse. They'd fill it with wilco & the national & stuff. I think those are boring too but who cares?

(xpost) Yeah, the Moody Blues LP also fits (says this "Tuesday Afternoon" lover...). Maybe Planet Waves, too, in that every Dylan album at the time, with the exception of Self Portrait, was hailed as his best since whatever. But there are other Dylan albums from the '60s and '70s that would make more sense.

I might try to make up a list of 10 albums I love that I know would bore many people.

cant say i ever found in the court of the crimson king boring.

I have this book somewhere, it was a lot of fun to browse through when you wanted to kill half an hour.

Voted for Jane's Addiction.

Mostly Classic Albums I Mostly Still Love That Would Bore Many People

1. Yo La Tengo: I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One (the most obvious pick, but there are others)
2. R.E.M.: Murmur or Automatic for the People (ditto)
3. Steely Dan: their classic mid-‘70s albums; I think people who don’t like Steely Dan find them boring. (Aja is a more obvious pick, but for the purposes of this list, it doesn’t fit--I find it boring myself.)
4. Feelies: The Good Earth or Time for a Witness
5. Endtroducing...DJ Shadow
6. Neil Young: Harvest (I still love most of this, and I think it’s still considered blandly classic by many people)
7. Jefferson Airplane: After Bathing at Baxter’s (not sure if anything other than Surrealistic Pillow is considered a consensus classic...this was sort of a big deal in its day, and I think it would elicit a “Huh?” from most people hearing it for the first time today)
8. Marshall Crenshaw: Field Day (Christgau gave it an A+, anyway--maybe more cultish than classic, though)

Planet Waves, for the most part, always seemed like Dylan & The Band as Sir Douglas Quintet or NRBQ: him and the boys rolling around in an old car, smoking and drinking and BD's looking out at those "rainy days on the Great Lakes", remembering stuff, also encounters with "Hazel/dirty blonde hair/Ah'd follow yew any-where/oooo, lil touch of your luv", and "Tough Mama/Can I blow a little smoke on you", that one reminding me a bit of Johnny Winter, who did a good version of "Highway 61". Used to like the fast version of "Forever Young", but just because it was reassuring after the disconcertingly tremulous slow version, but now that the fast one is the theme of the increasingly stupid Parenthood, fuck it' "Dirge" seems like an imitation of his 60s approach: "In the courtyards of the jester which are hidden from the sun"--oh please. But "Dirge" is great! So no way is this one of his most boring. "from the 80s and 70s that would make more sense"--yeah, from the 70s, I'd say Desire, but what from the 60s, clemenza?

The 1981 edition didn't have a "boring classic albums list," but instead had...

Most Boring Bands

1. Rhinoceros
2. The Grateful Dead
3. Electric Light Orchestra
4. Queen
5. Pere Ubu
6. Black Sabbath
7. Steely Dan
8. Uriah Heep
9. Blue Cheer
10. Poco
11. The Eagles
12. Pablo Cruise

Pere Ubu boring?!?!

'60s Dylan: the truth is, I used to find John Wesley Harding kind of boring. I haven't played it for a long time. I know many people revere it...which is why I'm more comfortable listing personal favourites that I imagine other people might find boring. (Then if you disagree with me, I can say, "I know what you mean--I love it.")

Critics sure hated Sabbath

Yeah Pere Ubu and Steely Dan are both way un-borish.

tbf, I believe Marsh doubled-back on Sabbath (don't think he out-and-out hated them, though). Also, all of the Steely Dan albums place in that edition's best-of-19xx albums lists.

Zep. Dunno how any album with Kashmir and In My Time of Dying could be considered boring.

It's too long that's why... still good though. Seriously considering coting "Trans" here

Strange definition of "classic" though?

How does Let It Be not win in a walk? EITHER Let It Be is better than every other album here.

"In My Time of Dying" was one of my least favorite LZ tracks for many years, then its ridiculous abandon suddenly snapped into place and now it's one of my faves from PG. But I can still remember thinking it was boring back then.

So can I tbh.

I don't care what other people might find boring, other than considering which album might be the best/a good place to start, if you want to check out a band. Should say that Desire is at least more irritating than boring, and ditto the tracks I don't like on Aja, especially the luxurious self-pity of "Deacon Blues" (drinking behind closed curtains, as prestigious, yet smooved-down jazz vehicles slide by outside). But the title track is great, the one about being tied to the mast, and uh--I'd say start with the first two albums, then it's cherrypicking time. Pretzel Logic's got some great tracks, but it's also where they start getting anal: uh-oh, "Night By Night" could be a great jam, better nip it in the bud, to show it's a serious song!

I believe Marsh doubled-back on Sabbath (don't think he out-and-out hated them, though)

He was one of their early defenders against "too fucking old" critics -- in a 1970 piece called "Crazy 'Bout The La" in Creem, written when he was 20. But he disowned it, or at least changed his mind about them, pretty soon after.

As for Pere Ubu, he gave Dub Housing 1 star out of 5 in the first edition of the R.S. Record Guide. ("Art rock with a New Wave face is no less pompous, pretentious or irrelevant because of its claim to association with Johnny Rotten. Anti-rock for anti-rockers. Boo." -- Though oddly, he later liked Public Image Ltd. when they came out.) Pere Ubu were alphabetized under the "U"s, and Modern Dance, much less their earlier singles, weren't graded. Second edition, they moved to the "P"s, and a different critic gave them much better grades.

Yeah, the changes from the '79 to the '83 RS Record Guide are interesting, like that Pere Ubu entry. Another fun one was Billy Altman's Doors raves switched out for Marsh's evisceration.

haha "so which dude is Pere Ubu and which dude is called Del Amitri?"

Derek Amitri to you

no thats what the old celtic board said

weirdo rateyourmusic bros typically place "In The Court Of The Crimson King" in their top 10-15 all-time albums at any given point.. it's at #8 right now. i know they have a preference towards jazzy/proggy/metal so i guess that would make sense, but i assumed it was normally considered an important record in most circles of rock criticism.

Mostly Classic Albums I Mostly Still Love That Would Bore Many People

1. Yo La Tengo: I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One (the most obvious pick, but there are others)
2. R.E.M.: Murmur or Automatic for the People (ditto)
3. Steely Dan: their classic mid-‘70s albums; I think people who don’t like Steely Dan find them boring. (Aja is a more obvious pick, but for the purposes of this list, it doesn’t fit--I find it boring myself.)
4. Feelies: The Good Earth or Time for a Witness
5. Endtroducing...DJ Shadow
6. Neil Young: Harvest (I still love most of this, and I think it’s still considered blandly classic by many people)
7. Jefferson Airplane: After Bathing at Baxter’s (not sure if anything other than Surrealistic Pillow is considered a consensus classic...this was sort of a big deal in its day, and I think it would elicit a “Huh?” from most people hearing it for the first time today)
8. Marshall Crenshaw: Field Day (Christgau gave it an A+, anyway--maybe more cultish than classic, though)

― clemenza, Saturday, 9 February 2013 15:53 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

good list. I have loads of "boring" albums that I adore but the most "classic" one I can think of rn is dummy

clemenza your loyalty to After Bathing at Baxter's has been noted and lauded

The more I think about Baxter's, the more I'd be inclined to place it with Sister. Negative reactions would probably encompass "self-indulgent," "arty," "pretentious," "hippie fluff," etc. before "boring." I think the whole classic/boring concept better lends itself to films than albums. (Novels, too, although I more or less abandoned fiction years ago--I say that based on my undergrad reading.)

I look forward to the day when the world joins hands and agrees that Yo La Tengo's Fade is the greatest boring album ever made.

nobody repping for EWF. what the hell that's like the best band ever

dave marsh is on some medved bros golden turkey award shit, it's barely challops, just tedious received wisdom from the gatekeepers of "what music should be"

though i suppose, as said, when published this may have been challopsy

you're thinking of EMF

the really depressing bit actually is that so much of this music is just considered boring now

After Bathing At Baxter's is one of the earliest albums to mesh sonically with groovy posters and light shows. "Somebody To Love" and "White Rabbit" did that of course, but the rest of Surrealistic Pillow was mostly good misty Bay Area folk-rock. The later Bless Your Pointed Little Head is great, as atmospheric and more acerbic than Baxter's, my fave JA nowadays, but structurally it's another well-paced live album, yay clap-clap, excellent evening out,while Baxter's is as non-stop a day trip as the label and know-how allowed, with Grace leading the way: "Saturday/Afternoon/Voices rising/In The Loom/Saturday/Afternoon/Ah said incense and balloons", seamlessly into "Won't you try" into "I"ll come through for you my love"--also just enough of Slick's weird sharp-edged word gardens. Best heard in high school, but still good (although Casady's bass doesn't get enough room in the remaster I've heard).

Joni obv.

'Sister' is great too, and it seems like an odd choice for the most boring 'classic' album by that band - like surely if you're gonna run that argument then 'Daydream Nation' is simultaneously more classic and more 'boring'?

Ditto with Genesis and 'Abacab' though I suppose they're talking about PC era only.

Also how is 'Neither Fish Nor Flesh' a classic album? 'Introducing The Hardline...' would actually be a fairly reasonable inclusion here.

Haven't heard it yet, but for me, the most boring SY album would be the one most dependent on vocals, especially hers.

Steely Dan do seem to elicit a pretty immediate negative reaction from a lot of people - I think most people would say it sounds like "dated 70s music". "Boring" is what the teenager says about their dad's classical records, and the dad just chuckles and says "Someday you'll like this", and the kid says "Sure dad, whatever you say". I think the embrace of "boring" as a put-down by jaded rock critics was a kind of jujitsu move, to say "No, that stuff really is boring. We've been educated into thinking we like stuff that is deathly pablum. Trust your inner 12-year-old." But then that approach gets boring too. So who knows.

Liking the idea that people have been educated into thinking they like Kilroy Was Here and Neither Fish Nor Flesh. I'm glad someone's sticking it to the hegemony.

one of these

23. People’s Instinctive Travels & the Paths of Rhythm – A Tribe Called Quest
29. Ritual to Habitual – Jane’s Addiction
30. Sister – Sonic Youth

(xpost to Dow on Baxter's) I know what you mean--I love it.

everyone OTM - most of these are far from classic and many of them are plain good.

that said: "Stone in Love" - Classic or Greatest 4:25 In The History Of The Bay Area?

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Summer Lawns > Diamond Dogs > Tribe > Prince

A pretty feeble bunch of sacred cows though. Ooh, check out the iconoclast who doesn't like Trans and Red Rose Speedway.

OTM. The vast majority of these are either certified and recognised turkeys from great bands (Satanic Majesties etc) or the artists themselves have been expunged from the canon long ago.

satanic majesties isn't a turkey!

But it's widely regarded as such. And much though I love 2000 Light Years From Home, TSMR is at least half-turkey.

Voted: People’s Instinctive Travels & the Paths of Rhythm – A Tribe Called Quest

2nd place: Their Satanic Majesties Request – Rolling Stones

But it's widely regarded as such. And much though I love 2000 Light Years From Home, TSMR is at least half-turkey.

The Wiki on this album is completely fascinating

But it's widely regarded as such.

4/5 from Rolling Stone, B+ from Christgau, 4/5 from AMG (4.5 for the mono mix)

xpost

The Stones themselves have been pretty dismissive of it, though it has had a re-evaluation, and some people liked it even at the time.

The point isn't that I think it's a bad record — I don't really — but that, like most of the albums here, it's divisive and anomalous enough to be a bad choice for a list of overrated "classics". In fact "boring" is a bizarre term to choose - whatever HSMR or Diamond Dogs or Trans may be, they sure aren't boring.

mmm, "Sing/see what happens" is kinda boring if you're not fascinated by it.

FFS Satanic Majesties, regardless of its merits, is not generally seen as a "classic" and probably wasn't even in 1994. Same goes for Trans, which I love.

3. Around the World in a Day – Prince
23. People’s Instinctive Travels & the Paths of Rhythm – A Tribe Called Quest
24. Physical Graffiti – Led Zeppelin
29. Ritual to Habitual – Jane’s Addiction
32. Neither Fish Nor Flesh – Terence Trent D’Arby
37. Wall, the – Pink Floyd

^^^ these are all fantastic albums

FFS Satanic Majesties, regardless of its merits, is not generally seen as a "classic"

I don't disagree with this. I guess I was disagreeing with the statement that it is generally seen as a turkey. If anything, that seems like a wrong thing to say about an album that is divisive.

Neither Fish Nor Flesh is a weird album title and sounds gross.

Good name for a vegetarian restaurant though

never heard the album btw, tho I like Hardline.

xp lol

who considers "Pictures at an Exhibition" a classic, I wanna know

NFNF is on Spotify; it's basically the album everyone thinks channelORANGE is, only his same-sex love song is a "sorry, I don't swing that way but we can be friends" story with some questionable late-80s imagery

im not even that into it but every time one of you reposts that janes addiction album title as "ritual to habitual" its like nails on my accuracy chalkboard.

split decision for me between prince and tribe

oh, you never heard that bootleg? it's INCREDIBLE

NFNF got neg reviews at the time iirc

Christgau dug it, moreso than Hardline.

MTV did a massive promotional push for it, for about two days. Big hour-long special, heavy rotation for a couple of the videos (something like three or four were released simultaneously), and then suddenly it vanished forever.

I didn't have MTV at the time but I eagerly anticipated NFNF and loved it on first listen; watching everyone else's nonplussed dismissal of it was very upsetting

I was a little apprehensive about watching the MTV special, partly because of TTD's "I'm better than everyone!" schtick, and partly because of the title of the new record. But I loved Hardline, so I wanted to hear the new shit. I remember really liking a couple of songs and being non-plussed by others, so I never bought the record. But I only heard "This Side Of Love" that one time, and I can still hum it, so I guess that counts for something.

It hit the top ten over here (UK), but then people heard it and it sunk very fast..

it certainly did

My brother was a huge TTD fan and as such I heard NFNF dozens of times growing up. Not listened to it in years but in my memory it's a really good album. I remember it being hugely flawed but still really enjoyable.

the random "I love my voice" a capella bits slay

OK I'm half way through listening to NFNF and it's just as crazy and fun as I remember...

yay there are three of us #teamNFNF

http://healthculturesociety.wikispaces.com/file/view/strait_jackets.jpg/267349942/553x407/strait_jackets.jpg

It's definitely the work of someone with a gigantic ego.
However it's never boring even when he's off on some mad tangent and there are great tunes inside the madness.

Still didn't vote for it in the poll though.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

no surprises there then really

though I thought more Prince fans would've been about.

Most Prince fans around here hate that album

Really? I thought prince fans thought it the 'neglected masterpiece'..

Surprised at the high Joni placing..

I did get NFNF in a turkish market, on cassette.

Just saw this thread -- Neither Fish Nor Flesh is a deeply weird record, almost every song feels like the "experiment" on a mainstream album (ie, Hardline...) that casual fans would likely skip. Weird forms, weird instrumentation, weird lyrical conceits.

Sentimental fave: "Billy Don't Fall" -- his message to a gay dude that supports his right to be gay, just not to be gay for him.

wtf is wrong with Around the World in a Day? 5 killer songs out of 9 is damn good for a Prince album.

xpost I think "This side of love" is my fav TTD song.

Also, check out "The Incredible E. G. O'Reilly – The Birth Of Maudie "

The genealogy of this list can explain the use of the term "classic".
In 1950, Columbia University Press took a poll and made a list of the "15 most boring classics" (i.e. literature - the "winner" was Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan). This list was reprinted in The Book of Lists published in 1977.
When Dave Marsh was compiling the original Book of Rock Lists in 1981, he obviously wanted a similar list of albums, and had it compiled by critic John Swenson. It was called "John Swenson picks the most boring 15 classic albums", despite the fact that classic has a different connotation when applied to Proust vs. Iron Butterfly.
When Marsh redid this list for the 1994 edition of the book, he kept seven of Swenson's fifteen, and added both older and more recent albums, which is the list polled in this thread. For posterity, these are the eight (possibly) boring albums picked by Swenson in 1981 and unpicked by Marsh in 1994:

All Things Must Pass - George Harrison
At Carnegie Hall - Chicago
John Denver’s Greatest Hits
A Gift From a Flower to a Garden - Donovan
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road - Elton John
In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida - Iron Butterfly
The Sun Bear Concerts - Keith Jarrett
Time Has Come - The Chambers Brothers

Of this list of forty, my favourite is Physical Graffiti and most boring is Wheels of Fire (at least the live album).

I don't think that clarifies it much!

Like, I don't think Kilroy Is Here and Pictures at an Exhibition are regarded as classics even by genre aficionados in the same way that Physical Graffiti is.

I just meant that this is the source of the word "classic". Why else would both of the lists have 15 entries?
Obviously, Swenson and then Marsh combined well-reviewed albums with popular albums in their lists. I guess they just wanted to avoid including records that were total non-entities, poorly reviewed AND poor-selling.

"Boring" makes more sense with those other eight. Most of them are either very long albums or contain very long songs. (Although who would find "Time Has Come Today" boring?)

On the other hand, <i>Around the World in a Day</i> may be one of the more uneven Prince albums from that period, but I would definitely not describe it as "boring."

yea seeing that ELP album on there is weird, it's not a classic and it's certainly not "boring". if this was written in 1981 I guess it makes some sense

Obviously, Swenson and then Marsh combined well-reviewed albums with popular albums in their lists. I guess they just wanted to avoid including records that were total non-entities, poorly reviewed AND poor-selling.

the confusing thing is they also include poorly-reviewed and unpopular albums like trans & satanic majesties. its like having a 'most boring classic films' list that includes lawrence of arabia and cats

This was the 94 version. Sister was only released in 1987.

Well, everyone seems to agree that this list is poorly named, with unclear criteria. This is why notions of "classic" and "canon" can't necessarily be carried over from literature or academia to pop fields.

I don't think people are that confused by classic rock radio or the Classic Albums Live project (https://www.classicalbumslive.com) or the BBC Classic Albums series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Albums). This list just seems especially weird, like it's made by people who are so in love with the canon that they need to pretend that Kilroy Was Here was a classic in order to take something down.

Dave Marsh doesn't understand why or how people like what he doesn't like. I suspect he believes that all Styx, ELP and Neil Young fans adore all their albums without reservation, so he has to step in as the voice of truth.

Marsh complained one time that Bowie "discarded" his previous fans every time he made a stylistic change, whereas Bruce only brought in new fans with each new record.

Hotter Than Hell by Kiss was a commercially disappointing hit-less sophomore album which I doubt even Kiss fans consider a classic. Listing it smacks of deciding to hate on a particular band and then attacking them at their weakest point. iow previous two posters otm.

Stuff like this is always meant to be hyperbolic, but yeah, some of the "boring" stuff on here feels like Marsh calling it so because he's too thickheaded to engage in anything beyond his narrow, conservative views of rock music. This is DeRogatis quoting Marsh so I'm not sure if he's getting it wrong, but Marsh supposedly justified his exclusion of the Ramones from his Heart of Rock & Soul book because "there's no blues" - that alone would explain a lot.

In his defense, a lot of those albums do really suck.

Elsewhere in the Book of Rock Lists, he calls Sparks and the Ramones "puerile satire" compared to the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band.

Hotter Than Hell by Kiss was a commercially disappointing hit-less sophomore album which I doubt even Kiss fans consider a classic. Listing it smacks of deciding to hate on a particular band and then attacking them at their weakest point. iow previous two posters otm.

― Josefa, Thursday, March 25, 2021 4:07 PM

on the other hand, kiss deserves to be insulted at every legitimate opportunity, so. . .

Hah, true.

Anyway, I don't think Marsh is a great critic, but if Marsh was just an author who wrote books on the Who and Springsteen and didn't pretend to have expertise in every corner of rock, I'd say yeah, he's pretty good.

The New Book Of Rock Lists (1994) was by Dave Marsh and James Bernard. Bernard was apparently a Kiss fan, hence the “Kiss was the P-Funk of white rock” in one of the lists (and holy hell, no they weren’t. I don’t know who was, but it wasn’t Kiss). Bernard also apparently placed Alive! in the Best Live Albums list, writing, “It’s great. Fuck you.” Marsh kept Alive 2 in the Worst Live Albums list: “Owning this is like putting a bad joke on a tape loop and locking yourself in a room with it. Once wasn’t enough?”

But yeah, like most critics, Marsh has his preferences and blind spots. But if really was the “I ONLY LIKE MEAT ‘N’ POTATOES ROCK” guy that he’s often made out to be, he probably wouldn’t love PiL’s Metal Box, or Sun Ra, nor would he put, say, the 12” club mix of Noel’s “Silent Morning” on his 1001 list.

Marsh supposedly justified his exclusion of the Ramones from his Heart of Rock & Soul book because "there's no blues" - that alone would explain a lot.

He didn’t say that was a bad thing (he praised them in the RS guides), just that the absence of blues (as far as Marsh could hear) in the Ramones meant they didn’t fit the parameters of his list. And he apparently heard blues in “Live To Tell,” and in Bonzo Goes To Washington’s “Five Minutes.”

I actually think it was good for my critical acumen to have read his books when I was young. It made me think harder about why I liked what I liked.
It's true he's a lot better on why Smokey Robinson is good than on why Queen or Devo are bad, but he really overplays that negative side in his public profile.

I don’t know if he plays up the negative side so much as it’s played up by others (but I don’t have satellite radio, so I’ve never heard his shows). And I think part of why he’s better at explaining why Smokey is good than why Queen is bad is because he’s obviously gonna spend more time and consideration delving into the good stuff. It’s easy to tell with some of his reviews that he had a knee-jerk reaction based on maybe one listen (though on occasion, those knee-jerk reviews are accurate).

One thing I recalled recently is that he was apparently the only writer in a US mainstream publication to call out Disco Demolition at the time (1979) for being racist and homophobic:

“Your most paranoid fantasy about where the ethnic cleansing of the rock radio could ultimately lead… White males, eighteen to thirty-four are the most likely to see Disco as the product of homosexuals, blacks and Latins, and therefore they’re the most likely to respond to appeals to wipe out such threats to their security.”

I definitely read an article where Marsh proudly compiled a list of his own pretty witless negative reviews, like "Kate Bush is Patti Smith combined with a vacuum cleaner". Christgau, I think was often brilliantly perceptive in bad reviews, even for artists I love.

a lot of provocations are so stupid you really don't need to show them the response they yearn for

or: clickbait avant la lettre, a history