John Grant - Pale Green Ghosts

Surprised there's John Grant thread in general, I always thought he had a pretty committed ILM following. I didn't really engage with the last album at all but this one is... extraordinary. I mean I'm not sure I *like* all of it but it's unfailingly interesting. Also, 'Greatest Mother Fucker' is hilarious.

yeah I'd paid basically no attention to this dude before (do recall being astonished that it cost something like £16 to see him a couple of years back, but he was obv big enough to warrant it) but I think this is great

doesn't seem like an obvious ILM favourite at all, if anything more liable to get yelled at for doing fake Prince or whatever

Excellent piece by DL here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/mar/03/john-grant-interview-singer-songwriter

Ohhhh what a great interview. This guy's music is not for me but I love him all the same

Queen Of Denmark is my favourite album of the decade thus far, JG is a staggeringly good live artist and a rare delight as an interviewee, and yet I'm finding Pale Green Ghosts to be well nigh unlistenable. There's confessional, and there's over-sharing. (Oh look, there's Sinead O'Connor, credited on track after track, and listed in the sleeve notes as "Mrs John Grant". That'll be part of my problem, then.)

DL really turned me on to his last album, which i'd have completely ignored if someone hadn't rhapsodised about it. incredible songwriting, great singing, just what he does is really distinct - can't think of many comparisons that really work.

only listened to the new one once, not sure what i think yet. the ~new electronic direction~ seemed a bit of a distraction but it might grow on me...

Oh look, there's Sinead O'Connor, credited on track after track, and listed in the sleeve notes as "Mrs John Grant".

also found all his friends all over this album another distraction, though possibly i'm just always more drawn to the idea of the singer-songwriter sequestered away in solitude rather than getting their famous musician mates round to jam

The only track I have issues with is Sensitive New Age Guy but he has a good explanation for how jarring it is, based on the man it's about:

Some people find it irritating, and I just feel like it is a perfect representation of what he was like in real life. Because of the way people are reacting to the song, saying that it’s out of place on my record. I mean, it’s perfect, it works.

The full story behind the guy in question is pretty staggering but it would have taken up half the feature.

i didn't feel like the lyrics or narratives were overly jarring or confessional, particularly. it's a break-up album. i've heard worse things said.

It's certainly more monomaniacal than Queen of Denmark, which addressed several different areas of his life, but I don't have a problem with that.

I've never heard Queen of Denmark but gave this a listen due to the Gusgus connection. It's phenomenal. What a great lyricist. Love the ernest borgnine track.

oh, and I really liked that article DL

Thanks!

I can't work out if I find his lyrics terrible or if they're just an awkward fit with the music, really. I'm still trying to work out my thoughts towards this album but I'm growing more and more impressed with i as time goes on.

i'm still not sure about this album - it's not hitting me like queen of denmark. i like the lyrical acidity and the production is pretty great but i don't think grant really knows how to write for dance music - often he tried to cram too many words, too many syllables in, and it ends up feeling a bit clumsy; not to mention the mismatch between lyrical thrust and musical vibe, which may well be intentional but it doesn't quite work...

I think that's a fair assessment. I'm delighted to find people on here who loved QOD though. It didn't make it into ILX's albums of 2010 poll at all so I figured it was just me.

oh i think i only heard it after the poll as a result of you hyping it, it really is wonderful.

also don't feel like grant really knows how to perform to dance beats either - i love his voice but it feels too rigid on pale green ghosts, there's no release to it...

But it's not dance music, by and large, although I think the two weakest and clumsiest tracks here are the danciest - Black Belt and Sensitive New Age Guy - for the reasons you mention. Cut those out and it's a great album.

It's at its best when he's either doing McCartneyesque songwriting filtered through Air circa Talkie Walkie, or at its most doom-laden. The first and last tracks in particular are astonishing, the arrangements in particular.

I went back to Queen of Denmark the other day and still wasn't feeling it and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's an excess of Midlake.

Those are the tracks I'd lose too. I like him more in 70s weepie mode, where the acid wit and deliberate ugliness of some of the lines contrasts with the creaminess of the voice and production. You lose that contrast with the dancier tracks.

It's Easier was the song that made me fall for him. It floors me.

FWIW I think the title track works (and works amazingly) because it's basically Depeche Mode with a gorgeous string arrangement on top, and you can tell Grant is more comfortable in that setting. The aforementioned two tracks feel stiff and lifeless and straitjacketed by comparison.

it's not just the housier tracks that feel stiff though - lots of the time the arrangement and the vocal don't quite work together. it has its moments though - i love "why don't you love me any more", his voice and sinéad's voice work incredibly together, and yeah the more trad stuff like "ernest borgnine" and "gmf" and "glacier" are great. just not as great as the peaks of QOD

Ridiculously great album, I'd say. The question of whether or not it's 'dance' music is such a fucking red herring, this is more like a lost Harry Nilsson album from the 1980s combined with Grant's own fraught memories/lyrics.

will have to give this a listen. I loved most of the Czars work but I really didn't like Queen of Denmark at all. I think I made it through one listen. But I'll give him another chance, for sure.

LOVING this. "Sensitive New Age Guy" aside, and I can accept that I'm not meant to love that.

When Grant is being particularly tough on himself he uses language that you can tell someone else has used against him, as if every insult is still embedded in him like shrapnel.

This is a ridiculously great line.

I can sort of accept Sensitive New Age Guy as a kind of bitchy James Murphy parody but it just doesn't sound very good. Still, I do like how this album goes through seemingly every post-breakup emotional stage at some point.

Where's the best place to start with Czars?

The Ugly People vs The Beautiful People, imo

This album is even sadder than I realised ;_;

okay this album rules pretty hard

I really enjoyed his gig in Edinburgh on Sunday night. The songs from this album were great in a live setting.

Astounding in London last night. New songs sounded even better with heavier synths and Grant's charisma is through the roof - brutal candour interspersed with lols. I suspect a lot of people were hoping for more Queen of Denmark (five songs vs everything from PGG) but as a show it was faultless.

Motherfucker, whoever did this:

After our show in Brighton tonight, someone who was apparently in the audience stole my computer off the stage, which has my entire life on it, i am shocked and just completely speechless, i don't understand why or how someone could do this, but if whoever took it is reading this, if you turn it in to the church where we played or leave it at Jurys Inn in Brighton, there will be no consequences, no questions asked. I have so many things on that computer which i need.

Fuck that shit, seriously :-(

Yes to hell with that. But this is probably suddenly my favorite thing of the year. And yes Tim correct about Ugly People vs. Beautiful People for Czars pick, that thing still makes me weak a decade later.

I'm really digging this guy's countrypolitan vibe.

stunning gig at cambridge last night. his self-deprecating, sweary and sad explanations of the songs from new album had me fall in love with it, which I found a lot less immediate than Queen of Denmark. Also did not realise how powerful the songs were when they were live with pulsating synths. He was pretty bitter about the laptop, but I think that made him angrier on some of the songs + 6 song encore!

for real though "GMF" is the song of the year, right?

you can't deny this song. i dare someone to deny this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIxZZdYPh3Q

its undeniable.

that is great

because of this thread i was listening to queen of denmark a lot

but the first 2 songs on the new one really threw me off w/the electronic direction

he's just really good at making 70s singer songwriter stuff he should stick to that

seriously, this dude's voice is fucking incredible

Yes and yes again.

he's just really good at making 70s singer songwriter stuff he should stick to that

He is but thus my Nilsson-in-the-80s comparison point I made upthread. He's smart enough to know his metier AND to extend it.

I ordered this through Rough Trade MONTHS ago, when it was not yet released in the US. Now it is, it's everywhere, but I still haven't gotten anything from RT. Sucks, because I really want to buy it (yeah, I'm one of those crazy people you read about that still buys these things) but I know the day I do, there will be a package from Rough Trade in my door.

fortunately you can listen to it on Spotify while you wait for your copy to show up

i've bought this but its also on grooveshart (if your office will not permit spotify).

Holy shit is he ever great live. There wasn't a single track that didn't hit harder than the studio version.

fyi this album is pretty much flawless

I like his singing on Queen of Denmark! It sounds so loose and fun. The couple times I've sat down with this one his voice sounds too mannered and cleaned up. Produced. Doesn't fit the material. Maybe I'll fall in love with it on next listen

Paraphrasing a bit I just recalled from the live show: after taking a moment to mourn the advance of anti-gay laws in Russia, he mentions that he's just written a song about Putin entitled "Smug Cunt." "That's not a joke. And I don't care if he sprinkles polonium on my Pop Tarts." Pretty sure he launched into "Glacier" after that. <3 <3

When this is good it is very good indeed.

I bought the miniLP because Beth Orton is singing one of the tracks.

Hm, interesting

I wonder if Biggi from Gus Gus is being invited to produce lots of albums now? (Perhaps he already did so?)

saw this guy on letterman. was the song he performed representative? b/c i'm still not sure it wasn't a joke. it was horrible, listless, dull as shit. maybe his lyrical approach in general reveals what he was trying to do here but out of context it was almost a parody of mopey singer-songwriter lyrics.

Reminds me a bit of nilsson

the slice that is a parody of mopey singer songwriters anyway

The stilted songwriting works some of the time, particularly on 'Glacier' which I find affecting partly because he sings things like 'And creating spectacular landscapes. And nourishing the ground. With precious minerals and other stuff." Something very bathetic about that.

Self-conscious self-parody is a big part of his deal.

smdh at how anyone could miss the humour in GMF

One of the great things about this album is how it's a monomanaical breakup record written from the perspective of someone who knows full well that they're becoming so boring that their friends have started avoiding them.

(And yet still can't stop banging on about it)

^^^^

I think a lot of the time he chooses deliberately ridiculous lyrics as a way of getting across that extreme emotions are often ridiculous (because overblown, or because corny, or because cliched, or because incoherent) though still sincerely felt.

yep

Matt OTM.

I can find some of the (same) lyrics deeply irritating and some close to genius, depending on my mood.

I must admit I don't like the "... and other stuff" because it feels incomplete or tossed off. I sometimes get that same feeling with the swearing in a kind of some of it is powerful *quality swearing* and other times it is a bit of a waste - other words might have said much more.

He's said in interviews that he hones the lyrics for ages so it's not tossed off. It's a deliberate stylistic choice - to run against the grain of a sweeping melody with awkward or abrasive language. Doesn't mean you have to like it, obviously. I like "other stuff" and love him in general but I sometimes wish he'd gone for a more conventionally elegant rhyme. I looked up the interview I did with him where I mentioned that line and he said: "I have to say, not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I’m particularly pleased with that line, 'And other stuff'. Because of how it functions in that song, and it works."

And then later: "I guess the first time that I noticed it was maybe reading Henry Miller. It was, 'Oh, this is just like people talk', and that’s interesting. Just how people talk is interesting. And that combination, I guess that’s what I’m fascinated with, the combination of literature speak and how we actually speak, and then profanity, because profanity … you know, I would get in big trouble for using a swearword when I was a child. I’d get slapped in the face. But, let’s face it: those words can’t be replaced by anything else. I mean, I could have said, 'I hate this bloody town' but that’s not what we would say, you know."

Nommed for a Brit. What a turn-up.

I agree that some of the swearing is needed and works. And - particularly as one of the few things I know about Grant is his language skills - other times I just wish he'd flicked through his thesaurus or racked his brains for a different word.

(I *do* like the album a lot.)

Xpost
As an amateur songwriter I fucking love that approach, and stuff like that

"and other stuff" is great, it undercuts the pomposity of the lyrics beforehand.

Similarly, I also love the bit in "Sigourney Weaver" where he starts singing about feeling like Winona Ryder in "Dracula": "and she couldn't get that accent right / and neither could that other guy".

Reading this thread for the first time.

can't think of many comparisons that really work.

seriously, this dude's voice is fucking incredible

Am I the only one who thought Brandan Perry when I first heard him? Their voices are incredibly similar imo. That's a compliment of course. The song "Pale Green Ghosts" even sounds like late-period Dead Can Dance.

Grant's turn on a Piano Magic album was a pretty good DCD impersonation

I have a hard time with his solo records, and I had a hard time with the last Czars album (with it's god awful autotune) but sometimes it feels like it really works.

xp First time I heard Sigourney Weaver, knowing nothing about Grant's sense of humour, I laughed out loud. It felt liberating, like I didn't know you could have a lyric like that with a voice like that. If Malkmus or Mark E Smith sang that line it would be funny but expected - Grant doesn't sing like someone funny and I find that dissonance exhilirating.

New video for Glacier is extraordinary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QLrMK9qBtYY

http://youtu.be/QLrMK9qBtYY

Re: Sigourney Weaver... I wondered why the absurd lyrics dont detract from the beauty of the song and I'd guess that it helps add this sense of joy (that I think is present in the music and vocals) along with the melancholy, making it all richer for it.

xpost fantastic video

v cool video, also super relieved there was no Dallas Buyers Club content at the end there.

I didn't know you could have a lyric like that with a voice like that. If Malkmus or Mark E Smith sang that line it would be funny but expected - Grant doesn't sing like someone funny and I find that dissonance exhilirating.

Don't get it -- how is what this guy is doing different from what e.g. Neil Hannon does?

(Don't get me wrong, I love Neil Hannon and think there should be more Neil Hannons. Neil Hannae?)

It took me way too long to love this guy.

He sings on the new Hercules and Love Affair album.

Don't get it -- how is what this guy is doing different from what e.g. Neil Hannon does?

Neil Hannon is often jokey, never funny

I am at his London gig right now (husband duty) and am wondering why nearly every song kicks off with dreary 'Imagine' piano chords. Dude, change it up!

wondering why this is getting the big push now - saw an advert on the tube earlier. good album but thought it was a bit more underground - dude's presumably gonna be everywhere now

I hope he ascends to being the most famous and celebrated

given how GMF keeps popping into my consciousness at the oddest times, he may already be part of the way there

GAH no I'm not jealous oh no

http://bellaunion.com/2014/04/john-grant-announces-november-uk-orchestral-tour/

Just over a year since the release of his critically-lauded second album Pale Green Ghosts, and with numerous Best Album of 2013 accolades and a Brit Award nomination to his name, JOHN GRANT has announced news of one of his most exciting ventures yet.

This November will see the former Czars frontman embark upon a seven-date tour accompanied by the Royal Northern Sinfonia in which John’s celebrated catalogue will be reworked and reimagined with a sumptuous orchestral setting, alongside the world premiere of some especially written new songs. John Grant’s creativity, unique songwriting and wonderful vocals combined with thirty four musicians promises a one-off musical experience. The tour will be orchestrated by Fiona Brice who has provided arrangements for the the likes of Roy Harper, Vashti Bunyan, Anna Calvi, Midlake, Placebo, as well as John himself.

'Outer Space' plays over a good scene in The Skeleton Twins

He played at the Royal Festival Hall last night with an orchestra backing him and it was fucking incredible, virtually flawless, like some early Scott Walker shit with added gigantic synths and self-loathing. I've seen him live before but this was something else, never quite appreciated how brilliantly he can pull off a sudden register jump before.

the 2013 album I most regret not discovering in time. His tunes on the Hercules & Love Affair record are good too.

Live album released today, backed by the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra. I recorded it when originally broadcast on 6Music a few weeks ago; it's excellent.

Saw him on Saturday night in Edinburgh and I can only echo what Matt DC said. In-fucking-credible. Hairs raised on my arms for half the gig. The Sinfonia using Rachmaninov's Prelude in C sharp minor to kick off Pale Green Ghosts was just something else. Glaciers, Queen of Denmark, JC Hates Faggots and GMF were all performed to perfection. That's The Good News was absolutely hilarious and the new material sounded like we have another real treat in store. Go see him if you can, you won't regret it.

Genuinely one of the greatest shows I've ever seen. The new songs - No More Tangles, Geraldine and Global Warming - were all great.

Envious beyond belief.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vk1gd

John Grant on Icelandic music.

... with a slight over emphasis on Blur's Beetlebum.

Press release for his new album is a bit of an emotional rollercoaster - can't wait to hear the pairing of his voice w/Tracey Thorn's, but Amanda Palmer? Whyyyyyyyyy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUgWE71CzWQ&feature=youtu.be

That''s really quite a poor vocal performance from him, IMO and I generally like his vocals a lot. Her's ain't good either but I've nothing to compare it to, maybe she always sounds like that. I enjoyed the riff on yahoo's situation in the opening synth line and I liked the chorus but I don't really get the song overall.

Haven't quite parsed that song yet but the chorus and the last couple of minutes are so good

I can't tell if the melodies are surprising or just not enjoyable. giving it time.

Kinda baffled by the new album tbh? Feels overworked in every direction.

New song is terrible, that register shift he does in the chorus is... not good at all.

really love his Taylor Swift covers album

Streaming:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/oct/01/john-grant-grey-tickles-black-pressure-exclusive-album-stream

Not in the US or Canada though -- but it turns out:

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/30/444196884/first-listen-john-grant-grey-tickles-black-pressure

Hoping this is a grower as my first couple of listens have left me cold (and I much prefer Pale Green Ghosts over Queen of Denmark.)

I really hate this guy's records for reasons I find hard to articulate. Spotify Discover playlist thinks I will like "Outer Space," apparently, but no. I guess it's the way he adopts this syrupy AM radio sound but doesn't DO anything with it, just kind of perfectly imitates it and then gapes at himself doing so.

this new album is way too cute

Great show in Minneapolis last week. "Pale Green Ghosts" and "Queen of Denmark" (the songs) sounded best, but I was impressed by the new stuff too. "I am quite angry, which I barely can conceal" defined the approach, though he's also very gracious as a performer. His band played a big part in bringing the material across, tho the drums were a bit over-heavy at times.

"Snug Slacks" is a great song title.

I couldn't get more than half way through this one - a couple of the widescreen ballads were good, but wacky synthpop is his single worst mode and it was all over this.

Yeah, I'm struggling with a lot of this; much of the first half is jarring, and much of the second half re-treads familiar ground. My keepers: the title track, "No More Tangles", "Magma Arrives", "Disappointing". "Snug Slacks" is fun for a while, too.

Tracey Thorn sounds ragged on "Disappointed," no?

new single is nice, better than anything I can recall from the last LP

So ILM doesn't really care for John Grant ? I'm not really convinced by his latest album's all electronic approach. I miss his piano and strings. Still has a great voice though. Has anyone else listened to it ?

I tried - also found it underwhelming. First two albums still classic, hope he finds an appealing groove again.

The title track is amazing but the album bounces back and forth for me. I do have a bit of a hard time with the 'funny voices' approach. He sounds like he's having fun though.

Sadly the more fun he's having the worse his music is. Last two albums have been corny as hell.

True, but, at least there's still something there, unlike, say, Mark Kozelek, who also used to make beautiful music and now does...something different that he apparently finds more fulfilling but no one likes to listen to.

I do have a bit of a hard time with the 'funny voices' approach

Same here. It's barely listenable in "Diet Gum" and only tolerable in "Metamorphosis".

Well it'll be interesting to see how that plays out live -- seeing him (finally) in two and a half weeks.

I'm seing him next Monday. It's his first time in Montréal. If he plays "Glacier" I'll be a very happy guy.

I loved his collaboration with Wrangler that came out under the Creep Show moniker.

His tracks on the 2014 Hercules & Love Affair album are terrific, extensions of Pale Green Ghosts' coffee house electronica. It's been diminishing returns ever since.

So the concert was awesome. He really pulls off the new songs well live. The harmonies are great. He also spoke to us in perfect French many times. Added bonus, none other than the ledgendary Budgie is behind the drumkit and I got to speak with him and take pictures after the show.

Wait, hold the fuck on, that was BUDGIE? How did I not clock that.

I gotta agree with LeRoo, just a wonderful show here in SF last night. "Pale Green Ghosts" got a particularly wonderful arrangement, queasily wonderful dark 80s electronics, and after it he said that reflected "four years of listening to Ministry's "Over the Shoulder" 12"...greatest remix ever." My girlfriend loved how the new album's "Metamorphosis" sounded live, saying it felt absolutely terrifying at the end. The main set closer of "Sensitive New Age Guy," "Glacier" and "Queen of Denmark" was an astounding 1-2-3.

Yes! PGG was huge and "Metamorphosis" is better live than on the album.

Budgie came down in the club after the show to buy a drink from the bar. When I started talking to him he said he was just taking it to John backstage and would come back to chat, and he actually did! Really nice guy and I was pretty starstruck.

There's a new track today, apparently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecBpAwovikg

One of my favorite albums of the decade.

oooh cate le bon produced this new one...fingers crossed it breaks his streak of weirdly lousy albums

"the only boy" is also on this. it sounds really nice. the lyrics are a bit much. it probably shouldn't be ten minutes long.

I thought this revive was going to be related to the Facebook ad that uses "Black Belt":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ekg56Ji56o

beard man gets paid

I was gonna mention it in the PSB/Tag Team thread.

Ha I was going to mention it, too

I finally am catching up on the albums after Pale Green Ghosts and just started Love Is Magic and, well... there's pretty much no way the live version of "Metamorphosis" could be worse

he's obviously a brilliant guy and a great singer but my suspicion is he needs just the right collaborators to shield him from his worst instincts...this is why I'm semi hopeful about the new one

I think Colonel Mustard did it in the billiard room / Yeah yeah

I might have to peace out on this

Have posted this on the Gus Gus thread but worth putting here, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mwdn0rYjA