Morrissey really seriously ill?

Morrissey has cancelled his U.S. tour because he has double pneumonia. He says that he hopes that this is not the end and that there will be other chances. Anyone know how serious this illness really is?

lean got im swervin

Dear Morrissey . . .
Morrissey

It's pretty serious if you're elderly, but I think Morrissey might being a tad dramatic. Hope he gets better though!

pneumonia can kill at any age, worrying for Mozzer IMO

My uncle, who's about the same age as Morrissey, has had pneumonia since December and has been in and out of hospital ever since. It can be pretty nasty.

damn! that's a serious bummer! I hope he pulls through.

I knew a healthy 20yr old who died of it, so yes.

A bloke at work went down with pneumonia and left me with the hospital pass from hell, but he recovered completely over the weekend.

wow, get well Morrissey!

perhaps some red meat in his diet might help the path to recovery

Washed down with the fresh blood of a virgin

:(

idk what effect well wishes from the internet can have on pneumonia, but just in case i'll send a double portion to sharivari's uncle and yknow fuck morrissey

Jeez guys

according to Cliff Richard, Morrissey is still in hospital after cancelling his US tour.

People on the Morrissey Solo forums talk about Moz having a more serious illness that I won't bother to name here but the recurring, serious bouts of bad health do make me concerned.

Yeah I get concerned as well, better check the Morrissey Solo forums tonight just to make sure the cunt isn't dead or hasn't mistakenly been buried alive.

Hope the rumors aren't true

This is one racist arsewipe I will not be sad to see getting planted.

People who think Morrissey is racist are always thick as fuck

but not too thick to read his history of saying racist stuff

its a tight line

Smart ppl know that calling the Chinese a "subspecies" cannot possibly be racist if the person saying it has written some songs

Great conversation guys

Eh he's a horrible person and his apologists are some of the worst ppl alive, I'm not a fan of serious illness ftr even if it stops morrissey saying things which is unequivocally a positive

Good reading from Racialicious

www.racialicious.com/2013/03/26/confessions-of-a-black-morrissey-fan/. Hope that works.

http://www.racialicious.com/2013/03/26/confessions-of-a-black-morrissey-fan/

Eh he's a horrible person and his apologists are some of the worst ppl alive

haha i know we speak in hyperbole on here but damn

outta like 7 billion or w/e there's gotta be 3, 4bn we could do without. Morrissey fans could slot in there without a hitch.

But who would buy the albums?

And who would make the non-cover versions?

Yeah that was meant as morrissey-style hyperbole without the genuine bigotry that makes him so lovable, obv there are worse ppl in the world but I'm still gonna say ugh those guys are the worst

i still like him
i dunno
but i get why ppl hate him
his personality has been so terrible for decades
i like the songs though, or the old ones
but yeah a lot of the stuff he's done in recent years is indefensible

As someone who dislikes Strangeways, the vast majority of Morrissey's solo career was already unpalatable to me musically; the indefensible shit he's said on the side is piss icing on the shit cake.

Xp Yeah I know some of his stuff means a lot to some ppl, I wasn't gonna add to x's kool-aid man itt cause it's hardly my concern if ppl are bummed out by a racist singer being unwell be it morrissey or clapton, assertions that he's a misunderstood victim deserve mockery tho

nah he never cops to anything that's the frustrating thing

feel like he was always that way then that dumb lawsuit just made him completely ridiculous about everything and bitter

the indefensible shit he's said

"All The Indefensible Shit You've Said" was a pretty good b-side i thought

“England is a memory now,” the singer remarked, “The gates are flooded and anybody can have access to England and join in.”

just need to get my "titan of intellect" PaulTMA head on to wheedle out the non-racist meaning of a quote like this. Obviously it is very nuanced and all but hidden from the "thick as fuck" types who take this as a typical Mosleyite/UKIP/BNP type statement.

I don't have piss cakes in my bakery but I do have:

http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/shitty-cake.jpg

"All The Indefensible Shit You've Said" was his collaboration wit t.A.T.u IIRC

nah was the killers I'm sure

Was he always racist or was this a mid-life development?

"Bengali In Platforms" goes back to 1988, so

apparently this all started in 1985

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrissey#Accusations_of_racism

He said reggae was vile in the 80's and later tried to dismiss it as a joke as he signed to Attack records, suddenly he was a massive Trojan fan.

thread title makes me picture morrissey in a tracksuit and fat chains on.

all up in kfc trying to order a boca burger.

Morrissey, "My Agitas"

boy racist, boy racist / we're gonna kill this pretty thing

it's really hard for me to gauge how racist the statement "reggae is vile" was coming from Morrissey in 1985, especially considering how easy it is to loathe any popular genre of music, but I feel content labeling Morrissey a racist based on other things he's said & done

Reminds me it's been almost 20 years since the dude made an album I liked

xpost

I don't think he's some far-right crank some seem eager to make him out to be. The "sub-species" comment seems the most indefensible, everything else seems to have been driven by NME which makes things sort of questionable. I understand reading "Bengali in Platforms" as racist but it's open to interpretation imho (is the narrator being patronizing, or admonishing, etc. it isn't really obvious), it's hardly "One in a Million". At any rate vilifying him only feeds into his persecution complex so keep it up guys

Morrissey is on ILX?

:-)

Morrissey is Momus iirc

Isn't there already a Moz Is Racist thread? Can't we keep this to speculation on the severity of his illnesses?

He's Robbie Keane's cousin????

Racism is an illness.

I don't think he's some seriously ill crank some seem eager to make him out to be. The "feeling very sick and ill today" comments seems the most indefensible, everything else seems to have been driven by NME which makes things sort of questionable.

I confess that's not the most well-written post I've ever made

"everything else seems to have been driven by NME which makes things sort of questionable"
What? Really?Serious Bullshit! flag post timey.

Isn't there already a Moz Is Racist thread? Can't we keep this to speculation on the severity of his illnesses?

Fuck off and die you cunt.

it's okay to enjoy some of his music and still accept that he's really really racist, kids

belax, dude

xp

it's okay to enjoy some of his music and still accept that he's really really racist, kids

― clockpuncher (Noodle Vague)

Of course it is, but because he hasn't made a good album since the Clinton administration it's easy not to enjoy it.

haha yeah the cutoff point for me is Vauxhall. although I did enjoy his autobio.

I do like how questioning NME's journalistic integrity is a FPable offense tho

xp

I thought You are the Quarry was pretty good.

Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

you are the quarry brought me back into the Moz fold but it was also one of those albums wherein the unexpected enjoyment I got somehow didn't make me any more interested in the follow ups. it felt like a decent summing up of his typical themes done in a very good, final way for me.

I preferred the 2009 album but boy was his voice starting to go

Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

^^^ shd be like the "Is Abe Vigoda Dead Yet?" of ILX

"STILL RACIST"

Xp re the nme he did say those things tho? I always find "out of context" a weird one unless the context was "i do not believe the following racist shit I'm about to say"

I thought You are the Quarry was pretty good.

― Bus Sex Teen Busted After Queef Beef (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:08 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

It was pretty empty for a rock album, tbh; as if everything valuable had been excavated

Xp re the nme he did say those things tho? I always find "out of context" a weird one unless the context was "i do not believe the following racist shit I'm about to say"

― Knob Dicks (wins), Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:12 PM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark

Yeah it's like arguing the Donald Sterling stuff is 'questionable' because it was reported by TMZ

I hope he recovers from his aidscancerulcerupsetstomachdepression.

yeah i felt like William Shirer had an axe to grind but

i for one would like to hear what gary oldman has to say about morrissey

"First of the Gang to Die" was probably the last Morrissey song I found listenable.

see, how can he be racist when he was so overcome with affection for his latin-american fanbase that he rewrote "jet song" for them

lol

the NME stuff just isn't clear-cut imo, certainly not as clear as Donald Sterling (there's no actual audio available for one thing). the "reggae is vile" comment is not explicitly racist, I don't think, although it's certainly not an opinion I share. The immigrants-are-ruining-English-culture thing seems murky too - there were lawsuits, the writer insisted on removing his name from the story, etc. And the NME's clearly had it in for Morrissey for quite awhile, this is one case where I don't think his persecution complex is entirely unwarranted (tbf if I was the NME it would be hard not to resist winding up Morrissey)

xxxp

I think the Was/Is Morrissey Racist? thread was how I discovered ilx. I had that one thread bookmarked for ages before I realised that it was just part of a site that discussed other things too. It's a classic. A lot of big names.

*cough* http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/morrissey-i-nearly-voted-for-ukip-i-like-nigel-farage-a-great-deal-8446651.html *cough*

you xp's make me sick, all this lolling/apologism - go fuck yourselves and listen to nothing but this shitcunt for the rest of your lives, it is all you fucking deserve arseholes.

idk who that is but ok

shitcunt?

is that some kind of British pastry or something?

Morrissey is on ILX?

― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:59 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I have a rockabilly haircut

― waterbabies (waterface), Friday, February 7, 2014 11:17 AM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

UKIP are a definitely not racist political party that stand on an anti-immigration, anti-EU platform

xelab there's a thread for you btw

I don't think he's some far-right crank some seem eager to make him out to be. The "sub-species" comment seems the most indefensible, everything else seems to have been driven by NME which makes things sort of questionable. I understand reading "Bengali in Platforms" as racist but it's open to interpretation imho (is the narrator being patronizing, or admonishing, etc. it isn't really obvious), it's hardly "One in a Million". At any rate vilifying him only feeds into his persecution complex so keep it up guys

i agree w/ this. morrissey is obv a jerk who's said tons of stupid things, which makes it tempting to put the worst possible spin on everything he says, but i don't think most of this evidence adds up to him being mel gibson. that said, no denying he's gotten nastier and more unpleasant with time: he's pretty much a crank with a fixation on an idealized british past which has over time turned into a sort of creepy nationalism.

and obv it ought to go without saying that you can like the smiths and be appalled by morrissey as a person, just like you don't have to throw out your beatles records because john lennon once told brian epstein he ought to call his autobiography 'queer jew.'

Even if the NME stuff was all lies and slander sponsored by the Beef Council, dude is still a jackass who's has shown an unapologetic fascination with racist iconography and a glib-to-toxic disrespect for any ethnic group that makes his radar outside of a meet-and-greet line. Dude's a hall-of-fame lyricist/singer imo (if long past his prime) but i can't fathom why one would need to quibble on just how much of a racist he is, he's close enough to earn a "fuck that guy."

"We Hate It When Our Friends Become Shitcunts"
"You're the One For Me, Shitcunt"

Not really sure what is going on but always happy to see the indiscriminate fling of a 'shitcunt'

but srsly is he on anyone's deathpool

Shitcuntry Gates

Wishing death upon someone is just as shitcuntish as being racist, IMO.

*cough* http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/morrissey-i-nearly-voted-for-ukip-i-like-nigel-farage-a-great-deal-8446651.html *cough*

That interview's the most open he's been about his fucked up politics. Liking Farage is the least of it. Original article:

Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4

but srsly is he on anyone's deathpool

this is what i was wondering yesterday

Wishing death upon someone is just as shitcuntish as being racist, IMO.

would be a good ilx poll

other possible options:

demurring in an RIP thread
not tipping enough
something about privilege
Luis suarez

Wishing death upon someone is just as shitcuntish as being racist, IMO.

OK GUYS, FALSE EQUIVALENCY BINGO STARTS HERE, EYES DOWN LOOKING IN FOR A FULL HOUSE

srsly imma start a thread re false equivelancy complaints

morrissey, 1984: "the sorrow of the IRA brighton bombing is that thatcher escaped unscathed."

well ilx isn't gonna blink at that

i got no ish with wishing harm on actual bad people

"I hope Johnny Rogan dies in a motorway pile-up."

"I don't drive."

"I hope Johnny Rogan dies in a hotel fire."

if you'd wished death on Hitler in 1938 wd that have made you as bad as Hitler? not relevant here, just nailing down the logic

Jesus Christ two Eurovision triumphs and no harm ever done on anyone

XP what value does a death wish have in this logic

i think the rascist thing is a decoy, it's not like everyone on here has never had a rascist thought. it's a little too much to take. he has done other stuff that is equally as bad or worse. why this white liberal differentiation?

xp

i dunno i'm just exploring Turrican's maleficic calculus

I was told at work to stop wishing death on other employees and I asked why, had it started working

maybe if it was like a hearty and cordial wishing it wd be ok

I'm certainly usually visibly cheered by the fuckin prospect

right chuffed are ye

good effort, good effort

i dunno i'm just exploring Turrican's maleficic calculus

Tell it like it is, it is sophomoric peasant stupidity and anything above that is too fucking generous.

oi m8

ask xelab

Too embarrassed to even look, feel like dying.

aw :(

it's all <3 on ILX xcept for the usual todgers

Tell it like it is, it is sophomoric peasant stupidity and anything above that is too fucking generous.

― xelab, Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:18 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The logic is quite simple:

If you wish death on someone, I'll think you're a cunt.
If you're a racist, I'll think you're a cunt.

Since I've established in my mind that xelab is a cunt, I'll happily settle for being a "stupid, sophomoric peasant" in his. No biggie.

you didn't elucidate the Hitler thing tho

i mean you understand the notion that wishing death on someone implies that they may be considered worthy of moral censure whereas racism is immoral top to bottom, right?

"my agitas" !!!

"rascist" is the most puzzling misspelling

like, one of those things is a largely rhetorical device to express the strongest possible disapproval of a person, possibly on ethical grounds, whereas the other is dimwitted attribution of negative qualities to a vast group of unidentified people based on perceived phenotypes?

if correctly diagnosed

a slightly more complex point but i'm addressing the statements as argued

a fixation on an idealized british past which has over time turned into a sort of creepy nationalism.

this is racism, right? how can it not be racism?

true, XP and non xp

bet he blames his Irish blood for the racism

yeh really he's just pining for the days before dammit i was gonna say Henry II but tbh you had Vikings running amok before we got our oar in

that tricky moment when you try to work out who was the original peoples who sprung fully formed from the soil before all the waves of outcomers fetched up

I need da croupier to return and work up an entire parody of my adidas. or at least a verse.

formorians iirc can't recommend the prehistory legends enough tbh

god, the internet makes people so awful. except for morrissey. he was awful before the internet.

xp

i remember bits of that stuff either from learning to decipher Finnegans Wake or from playing Tir Na Nog on the Spectrum, most likely the latter

something bout y'all being Phoenicians or Spaniards or something too

irish blood racist heart

Carthaginian Blood, Formorian Heart wd've been more fun to scan

well i don't think morrissey's 'fixation on an idealized past' would be very similar to that of the national front (or churchill, or whoever). he's not nostalgic for the empire, he's nostalgic for a made-up fantasy britain based on all the cultural stuff he likes. but there's no denying that there seems to be a link between that and the nationalistic streak he's displayed since, which otherwise seems hard to fathom given his professed socialism, anti-royalism, etc.

I feel like European nationalism always contains at least a grain of the idea of "national stock," which is imaginary, of course, but it imagines a racial aspect of Englishness or frenchness or whatever.(In france, isn't it "de souche"?) I mean, maybe not always, but the origins of European nationalism are in this idea, right?

the nation state is locked into that idea imo

otherwise it wd just be a state

I was trying to not get all nationalism is racism, man, but yeah

like, one of those things is a largely rhetorical device to express the strongest possible disapproval of a person, possibly on ethical grounds, whereas the other is dimwitted attribution of negative qualities to a vast group of unidentified people based on perceived phenotypes?

― clockpuncher (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:31 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Speaking as a white British person whose stepmother is Asian (and has siblings who are mixed race), and whose girlfriend is also Asian, it's safe to say that I do understand the difference, and certainly if a person was to haul ethnic slurs their way I'd be understandably incensed. Would I wish death on that person, though? Certainly not, but I'd most definitely think that person was a cunt.

I mean, to say Morrissey's "you can't help but feel the Chinese are a subspecies" didn't go down well with me is an understatement. It very much angered me. But even with that in mind, I could never bring myself to sit here and say "I hope that fucker dies".

Not sure that having Asians in the family qualifies you as being able to say anything other than that you have Asians in the family tbh

He said "Speaking as" not "I have a qualification"

it's a little weird how several people in this thread have noted regretfully that "the Chinese are a subspecies" is the most damning thing Morrissey has said and then gone on to say he's not that bad/it's not clear that he's racist. what exactly does a person have to do to count as racist, then? is it that there's only one totally clear-cut remark? it's enough, isn't it? it almost seems like people are noting it and then overlooking it.

i say this as someone who has every Smiths lyric memorized for life, btw.

I know it's really late in the UK but that's not keeping me from chuckling at the total silence in response to horseshoe's post

I need da croupier to return and work up an entire parody of my adidas. or at least a verse.

deeply flattered someone would ask for MORE yuks from me, but i'm gonna wait until mozz is in the clear before going too far in satirizing his health scares

oh I missed that that's what you were referring to! i thought his agita was about being accused of racism or something.

If you read what I wrote I said that morrissey is not a far right crank. The "subspecies" crack is clearly racist.

Sorry I had to eat dinner b4 responding

you said it seemed the "most indefensible" of his statements, but that seemed to be for the purpose of casting doubt on the other questionable things he's said. i guess my point is that identifying a group of people as a subspecies is indefensible, full stop. even if he'd spent the rest of his life/solo career not being so fucking irritating/"provocative" about race.

morrissey's definitely become a crank, and i think he deliberately flirts with far-right rhetoric. i don't really care anymore whether he's a true believer in his heart.

He's always been a crank. But he's not some stereotypical mosely clone or fascist as xelab would have it. His views are too idiosyncratic for that.

perhaps I should have just said "worst" instead of "most indefensible"? Difference seems minor to me but ok.

one the one hand we could really dive deep and unpack the idiosyncrasies in the racist shit morrissey says

on the other we could just be like morrissey is a shitty old racist who was in a good band back in the day and vauxhall and i is a pretty good record, sucks that he is a shitty old racist

if you need that new morrissey material in your life so bad that you are doing some dope mental jiu jitsu to un-racist all the racist shit he says then man i don't know take an inventory or something

pwnd

Remember, no listening to James Brown either.

of the available racisms his is of course artistic, perhaps even artisanal

I understand reading "Bengali in Platforms" as racist but it's open to interpretation imho (is the narrator being patronizing, or admonishing, etc. it isn't really obvious)

I'm not sure I can see a non-racist interpretation of "Shelve your Western plans and understand that life is hard enough when you belong here".

I think an Indian artist should write a riposte song, "White Liberal in a Sari".

That'd show him.

Thing is nobody was saying that he is "far-right", just that he is a shitty poisonous racist cunt, which doesn't seem that arguable to me unless you're so keen to make excuses for him that you wanna overlook the shitty poisonous racist cuntish things he keeps saying. Beyond that I don't have much interest in exploring the nuances of this horrible man's personal politics. He is probably pretty right wing tho.

left-wing people are never racist? gimme a break

Well exactly

Summary: Morrissey is not right wing.

The vast majority of his political opinions (re royalty, for one) place him left. What it comes down to is, If the B*P promoted one specific policy that would make him vote for them (ignoring the fact they still would not win), what would the policy be? And that would be that they would make vegetarianism compulsory. I don't think he cares about anything else as much.

some bad looks ITT

I vote we remove the divisive Morrissey influence and permaban any poster mentioning same from hereon in

I do like how questioning NME's journalistic integrity is a FPable offense tho

suggesting it's only the NME that's reported on his racism is staggeringly ignorant.

like, it wasn't only the NME that saw this shitheel waving a union jack at the Madstock gigs, gigs full of the skinhead racist bastards who have followed Madness - a proudly anti-racist group who were mortified by this shitheel's antics - for years, despite their attempts to shake them loose. you would have to be wearing galactic-sized blinkers - or, i suppose, be an American with no context of british culture and racism - to not see this.

waving a union jack

wait, I thought it was the st. george's cross that was the racist flag.

union jack had racist connotations for decades. i'd rather die than wear one.

'saw this shitheel waving a union jack at the Madstock gigs'

fixed.
he only appeared on the saturday, and due to be bottled off refused to perform on the sunday.
i was there.

Remember, no listening to James Brown either.

― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, June 25, 2014 4:15 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

please direct me to the thread where people are posting stuff like "I know James Brown slowly beat his wife to death over a period of several years, but he's not a wife-beater", please. Or is this just some "there are terrible black pop stars too, so you can't criticise white pop stars for being racists" false equivalency bullshit?

xp so he did wave it at the show he played though, mark e?

like, listen to morrissey all you like! it's okay! just don't pretend he's not said some egregiously racist shit!

like, james brown has made some of the most amazing music of all time imho. he was also clearly a terrible, abusive man.

he only appeared on the saturday, and due to be bottled off refused to perform on the sunday.

in that case i wish everyday was like sunday

Boom

xp so he did wave it at the show he played though, mark e?

i do recall seeing him walk on at the start of the set waving the flag/draping it around him (as was captured on the cover of the nme)

however, i sat down for a lot of the set and so did not see much more.

Thing is nobody was saying that he is "far-right", just that he is a shitty poisonous racist cunt,

thinking "far right" is worse than "racist" is a Brit thing, isn't it

here they usually go together

waving a union jack

wait, I thought it was the st. george's cross that was the racist flag.

― how's life, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 10:11 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"St George's Cross" doesn't rhyme with "there ain't no black"

thinking "far right" is worse than "racist" is a Brit thing, isn't it

no idea tbh but I took the point to mean that it would probably not in this instance be accurate to use them interchangeably

Do you guys have a single flag that's not racist?

Green Flag is a British breakdown cover and vehicle recovery provider based in Pudsey, near Leeds. Formed in 1971 (as the National Breakdown Recovery Club) as an alternative to the AA and RAC, using a network of local garages and mechanics to deliver recovery and repair services instead of patrolling mechanics. The company is part of the Direct Line Group.

Nationalsozialimus

Green Flag is a British breakdown cover and vehicle recovery provider based in Pudsey, near Leeds. Formed in 1971 (as the National Breakdown Recovery Club) as an alternative to the AA and RAC, using a network of local garages and mechanics to deliver recovery and repair services instead of patrolling mechanics. The company is part of the Direct Line Group.

LOL

It is perhaps unfortunate that right-wing has in the popular imagination come to mean xenophobia, market freedom, low taxes and small government (with a royalist slant in the UK). Obviously far-right in this instance would mean racist, unregulated markets with next to no social welfare or rights for workers and everything owned by or sub-contracted out to large corporations.

I'm guessing Moz would be anti-immigration (although he likes to live in other people's countries} and very low tax (we know how he hates people taking his money). The rest is more left-wing stereotype I think.

It is perhaps unfortunate that right-wing has in the popular imagination come to mean xenophobia, market freedom, low taxes and small government

yeah, this stereotypical view of right wingers overlooks so many other appealing beliefs

yeah, this stereotypical view of right wingers overlooks so many other appealing beliefs

you missed my irony?

He expounded on many of his political views here: http://www.morrissey-solo.com/content/1037-Morrissey-interview-in-the-Legends-issue-of-Loaded-(Feb-2013)-out-tomorrow

No Alfred I was actually trying to get away from that kind of thinking, shakey was on some "in fairness to the lad, he isn't far-right, he's more *idiosyncratic* in his beliefs" which is a pointless avenue to go down imo - dude has been consistently, publically hateful, I don't give a fuck what newspaper he reads or his views on the royals or whatever the fuck

I mean apart from anything else, the shit this guy's been saying for as long as I've been alive has just been really really stupid, like he actually comes across as a bit dense. Not sure why ppl act like he's at all clever or interesting tbh

Because he wrote "How Soon Is Now?"

his lyrics were intelligent and interesting, as was a lot of what he said at the beginning. that's the whole point.

if you only heard what he said and produced from Quarry onwards, I can understand how this might seem ludicrous

Morrissey has made so many ridiculous or risible or stupid statements over the years it's hard for me to categorize what each comment means about the man. The only consistent hate I recall from the guy is toward Johnny Rogan, Mike Joyce and any person that eats meat. Everything else has been a one-off what did he say now shocker, right?

turns out you can write the theme to charmed and still be an idiot

healthy step for ilx to start believing you can tick lots of the right boxes and still be a cunt, vice versa belief to follow within a few years, then we can really start to mix it up

I'll take the word of posters above/in the other thread re skinheads etc at the time and in the scene, I'm still wondering if the union jack is a straight port to racism tbh?

as an interesting aside, not as a "maybe moz is just mozunderstood" gambit.

healthy step for ilx to start believing you can tick lots of the right boxes and still be a cun

seriously, shut up

he says he wants jon stewart or rachel maddow to be president of the U.S.

as far as i can tell...all his views are basically filtered through the lens of his own incredible narcissism and self-obsession...

so....he cares about animal rights, so he supports radical left vegan groups or Greenpeace

he hates when he has to pay taxes personally...so he supports the largely right wing "we need lower taxes" view...

he doesn't like UK losing its identity to Europe so he supports going back to sterling and some UKIP anti-Europe stuff

he suffered under Thatcher as a youth so he despises Thatcher

the Chinese have a poor record on animal rights so he sees them as "Subspecies"

American Latinos embrace him and his music, flattering him, and giving him a new audience and more money, so he embraces them

he likes watching Jon Stewart and Rachel Maddow, so he thinks they should be president of the US

he loves a bunch of fusty old English cultural stuff that no one gives a fuck about anymore, and he feels like no one does so he blames immigration for a loss of "English indentity"

none of this shit is consistent except through the idea that Morrissey can't see past his own nose

and is racist

we still use sterling to buy our blood sausage over here, old chap, but otherwise OTM

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

he loves a bunch of fusty old English cultural stuff that no one gives a fuck about anymore

don't think it's necessarily either lolsome or racist to like long gone aspects of any popular national culture, and if Moz were American he might get more respect for being a cultural custodian of all sorts of interesting things. also, not everything he's championed has been 'fusty' and British (and some of the things he adores might still say something of our country and the way we once lived and presented ourselves to the world = valuable, worth preserving - eg New York Dolls, Nico, Klaus Nomi. of course moz falls into a pretty reactionary position when he bemoans a loss of these things - especially now that, thanks to dvd and other archival forms, they're actually more present than ever - On the Buses (a Moz tour bus fave, I was once told) is all around us!

ward - i'm not saying a desire to preserve or be a booster of stuff is bad, i just think he tends to see the decline of it as part of a "declining England" narrative or loss of Englishness that's has been a theme of his and i think at times has caused him to be racist (like "life is hard enough when you belong here" or "we are the last truly english people you will ever know" etc)

all his views are basically filtered through the lens of his own incredible narcissism and self-obsession.

funny how little Englanders are the first to bugger off to California, Florida or Spain given half a chance

Residual colonialist instinct?

xxp OTM (also, I suspect, always latching on symbols for aesthetic reasons make him completely oblivious to the political meaning of his positions)

"If you walk through Knightsbridge on any bland day of the week you won't hear an English accent" - reckon he gets the kind of immigration he reads about online mixed up with tourism and the oligarchs buying up London etc. He thinks the view from his posh hotel is a typical British street scene.

lol

A typical London (if not Knightsbridge) street scene would have kids from Asian, African and Caribbean backgrounds speaking English in a variety of ways. Morrissey has decided that these accents are not English, regardless of the possibility that they come from English born kids - also ignoring the fact that he's a Manc and his accent is as removed from Knightsbridge as any.

Also, Knightsbridge has been populated by rich foreigners for, what, 50 years now?

Thing is, yeah, he's a lousy comedian.

the lens of his own incredible narcissism and self-obsession.

I loved the Smiths before I gave solo Morrissey a chance and found "Bengali in Platforms" on the first solo album I bought. I still like a lot of the Smiths' music but I sometimes have trouble seeing the lyrics the same way that I used to: much of the 'introspection' and the cynical worldview can seem more like "narcissism and self-obsession", as you put it, exactly the same sort of narcissism and self-obsession that is at the root of his xenophobic, essentially racist attitudes. (I mean, it could also partly be that I'm not 18 anymore.)

"...are at the root..."

Also, Knightsbridge has been populated by rich foreigners for, what, 50 years now?

Yes, but he hasn't been in Knightsbridge for 50 years. I think he is dumb enough to be comparing it to 1950s Manchester. Like most racists, I doubt he has spent any time close enough to "kids from Asian, African and Caribbean backgrounds" to gauge anything about them, including the variety of accents they might have.

Like most racists, I doubt

ignore the dangling modifier here by the way lol

I agree w m@tt's POV for the most part. p clear that as an American I'm missing a lot of UK nuances here.

didn't know the Union Jack was considered a racist symbol for example

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/def_leppard_union_jack_9522.jpg

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/gallery_pic7264.jpg

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=4933395

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000wrIrlCcB9Oc/s/600/480/SFE-911001-001.jpg

http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/d61d10fe62bc87884c244082e0e2e45c.jpg

i mean there's a lot more that a google search turns up, its just either on stormfront or it genuinely makes me want to vomit

like, i didn't know that the confederate flag was considered racist when i was a kid watching dukes of hazzard but...

http://i.imgur.com/fFQY8uy.png

http://i.imgur.com/fSZcudM.png

http://i.imgur.com/5jK8deV.png

https://mikescollection.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/mrpphotos211794-gl393094_geri-halliwell_union_jack_dress.jpg

like, i didn't know that the confederate flag was considered racist when i was a kid watching dukes of hazzard but...

not analogous

unless the Union Jack has explicitly been the symbol of a government that fought a war over the right to maintain a racial group as slaves. the Confederate Flag literally has no other meaning. It is the symbol of that gov't.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1132959.ece/alternates/s615/Great%20Britain%27s%20Jessica%20Ennis%20holding%20the%20Union%20Jack%20Flag%20after%20the%20heptathlon%20800%20metres%20during%20Day%20Four%20of%20the%20IAAF%20World%20Athletics%20Championships

feel free to enlighten me on the history of the Union Jack tho

lots of flag posts itt

i did not know it was a symbol etc etc when i was watching a car draped in it on dukes of hazzard, you had no idea union jack had been appropriated by racist skinheads in 70s and 80s uk, potato potahto lets call the whole thing off

first hit when googling racist appropriation of union jack AND national front appropriation of union jack: http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/28727-Morrissey-s-use-of-the-Union-Jack-WAS-insensitive-and-racist

the statement "the Union Jack is considered a racist symbol" is somewhat reductive but it has a long history of prominent display by British far right groups, as per the photos above. my (limited and poss incorrect) impression of American white supremacist or w/e groups is that they don't use the American flag in quite the same way

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/the-tragic-decline-of-the-union-jack/261071/

(several xposts)

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hK6lUbtUxmAC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=national+front+appropriation+of+union+jack&source=bl&ots=KBsk2ppS0q&sig=SntetASVcpkf5hqthwyiUD-ViAg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZPSqU4H8LKew7Aa9-oHIDQ&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=national%20front%20appropriation%20of%20union%20jack&f=false
^^^ don't know if this link works but it links to a book that points out that the same afternoon morrissey was waving union jack at madstock in finsbury park, the national front had organised a 'british troops out of ireland' march in nearby islington

also that he was literally waving a flag about whilst opening for a band that famously had a notable far-right/skinhead following, at a time when he was fetishising skinhead aesthetics in his songs/record sleeves etc, I don't think it's really the same as the Noel G or Geri Halliwell examples xp

you had no idea union jack had been appropriated by racist skinheads in 70s and 80s uk

this all seems to go back to the idea posited upthread somewhere that all nationalism is at heart racist, which I can't really argue with. Some expressions of nationalism are more racist than others, I suppose.

xp

American white supremacist or w/e groups is that they don't use the American flag in quite the same way

this impression is incorrect

http://www.rulen.com/kkk/kkkflag3.jpg

not nationalism, the NATIONAL FRONT, which is an explicitly racist group

thread delivers

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qfdHUpexL.jpg

http://www.amazon.co.uk/There-Aint-Black-Union-Jack/dp/0415289815

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qfdHUpexL.jpg

the paul gilroy book might be worth reading, here

what this thread has taught me is that we need a poll to determine which flag is the most racist

lots of flag posts itt

― Knob Dicks (wins), Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:09 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

Very good

Actually thats not the book I meant - just a sec

I was talking to a queer friend about some of this stuff once. He pointed out that, in his view, songs like "Sweet and Tender Hooligan" and "National Front Disco" are basically really about rough trade, which I'd probably been naive to really miss. I'd been inclined towards a more charitable interpretation of "NF Disco" but this actually makes it seem more loathsome.

the footage of Finsbury Park was a surprise when i finally saw it. type in the phrase "morrissey draped in union jack finsbury park" into Google and see how many people have parroted that down the years. he doesn't appear to be draped in it at all from the look of the footage. he didn't wave it about during National Front Disco either which often gets said, he picks it up off the floor once during the show, twirls it around in the same manner one might do with a feather boa or whatever then chucks it away again.
(4.50 onwards on here for the full 'horror')

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-0EQsbhTb0

i wonder how many people have ever actually seen this. it never came out commercially so i'm assuming.. not many.

GIS for "racist flag" is fairly conclusive

not nationalism, the NATIONAL FRONT, which is an explicitly racist group

yeah I get that, I know what the National Front is. But on a more general level nationalism - by itself, this idea that there is a PURE conception of the nation that deserves to be prized above others - is essentially racist, it always requires some idea of ethnic homogeneity, it's pride based on demonization of an externalized "other".

xp

clearly I need to read up on NF policy on the Irish occupation! interesting.

contextually, racism/nationalism and the national front were not misty-eyed 70s/80s nostalgia in 1992 - a year later, the BNP won a council seat in the isle of dogs. i was studying in mile end at the time and the sense of tension there was palpable. that moz would coyly play with this stuff seemed unforgivable to me at the time.

ward - i'm not saying a desire to preserve or be a booster of stuff is bad, i just think he tends to see the decline of it as part of a "declining England" narrative or loss of Englishness that's has been a theme of his and i think at times has caused him to be racist (like "life is hard enough when you belong here" or "we are the last truly english people you will ever know" etc)

― sinister porpoise (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, June 25, 2014 1:59 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol ums, i think i was just being defensive because i like a lot of the same old musty shit as morrissey - and of course a lot of this stuff (like british sitcoms from the 1970s) is really horribly racist, tho' i don't think that's the sole reason that morrissey digs 'em.

the last time i saw morrissey live - one of his Meltdown performances on the South Bank - I was struck by the surprisingly heavy audience presence in the bar beforehand of serious rocker and skinhead types wearing oh-so-cryptic 'european tour' 1938-45 t-shirts etc. maybe having the Cockney Rejects on the same bill contributed to that, but it was far from being a regulation indie crowd.

and of course a lot of this stuff (like british sitcoms from the 1970s) is really horribly racist,

yeah I assumed bringing up Nico was deliberate in this regard

didn't know the Union Jack was considered a racist symbol for example

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, June 25, 2014 3:50 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Depends on the context in which its used.

If someone throws the Union Jack on stage and you pick it up?

http://static-1.nexusmods.com/15/mods/110/images/18911-1-1339907682.jpg

Every racist has good luck.

Wait, UN Goodwill Ambassador Geri Halliwell is a racist!? What is the UK equivalent of a crying eagle gif?

this all seems to go back to the idea posited upthread somewhere that all nationalism is at heart racist, which I can't really argue with. Some expressions of nationalism are more racist than others, I suppose.

I struggle with this mostly wrt classical music: after the explosion of modernism in CM following from Prelude a l'Apres-Midi/Satie/Elektra and above all le Sacre du Printemps, there was this amazing, dizzyingly fruitful long wave of works informed by nationalism in a more or less positive non-racist way coming out of every territory with a western orchestra at hand-- all the Baltics, every future eastern bloc country especially Poland/Hungary/future Czech Republic, South America, Spain, every scandinavian country, Greece, Turkey, weird regions of France... this shit was so great but it was for sure nationalist and obv part of a thread that would curdle horribly as the century went on.

I mean I guess the early German nationalist artists were pretty non-pathological too (OG romantic poets & writers, Beethoven, Schumann, Schubert) but once they started getting an actual nation things got vile pretty quick. Maybe nationalisms always have this kind of arc of being a positive thing in their infancy and then becoming poisonous...

The Olympics is a celebration of nationalism, yet surprisingly not racist.

Hmmm I see a connection there.

plenty of racist shit has happened at the Olympics

they used to throw gypsies down the luge

for luck

obviously the Olympics organization itself is an internationalist, not a nationalist, organization, so yeah they haven't done anything egregious that I know of. but participating nations have used the nationalist nature of their participation in racist ways

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0801.html

"I present to you this olive branch as a symbol of love and peace," he said. "We hope that the nations will ever meet solely in such peaceful competition."

Hitler, receiving it with obvious emotion, thanked him heartily and shook hands with him. The "Hallelujah Chorus" in a final great burst of melody and the recession of nations from the stadium brought this notable opening to a close.

In British terms, the Olympics are mostly inclusive these days. It doesn't really matter where you, or your parents, were born - if you are competing for GB you are considered British by all but the most cantankerous, exclusionary racists. Morrissey's commentary on contemporary Britain in much closer to the cantankerous, exclusionary racist vision than the Olympic one.

The reason black athletes wrapped in the union flag is a big deal is because of the way it was so closely associated with the far right for so many years. The Spice Girls were probably, in some way, trying to reclaim and detoxify it. Morrissey not so much.

lol yeah nothin racist about the Spice Girls nope

The dresses understandably made a lot of people uncomfortable at the time, as did Annie Lennox's union flag suit a few years before. There was definitely a strain of British triumphalism to the whole era but, at the same time, a kind of inept but well-meaning attempt to take the symbolism of British nationalism away from the far right and towards a more inclusive place. Not necessarily successfully.

you can be included, but we get to call you scary

*bookmarks thread in "cultural studies" folder*

you can be included but we get to call you posh

you can be included but we get to call you ginger

you can be included but we get to call you baby

you can be included but we get to call you minger

foodie idea: the posh nosh

When you read 20th century history books, if you get bored at the non-eventful stage of "eccentric" entertainers making racist comments without any opposition, just skip a few chapters to the more eventful death-camp/pogrom stage of approved mass murder where all this PC nonsense has been dispensed with.

pretty sure the spice girls participated in coming up with their own nicknames

foodie idea: the posh nosh

David's favourite dish

pretty sure the spice girls participated in coming up with their own nicknames

I thought the story was that they were nicknamed in a magazine article and everyone liked them, so the names stuck

"without any opposition"

I heard it was Andi Peters xpost

wiki sez: "Each member of the group received a nickname from the media. Brown was named "Scary Spice""

lol xelab so Morrissey is Wagner now ok

rubber ring cycle

I look forward to the mass murdering dictator that cites Morrissey as a formative philosophical influence btw, hopefully they will cite Freddie Mercury and Nico too

more to the-poster-formerly-known-as-Shakey's point:

As the girls become more popular, their images became as important as their music. In their early days of the band, the girls had a laid back and casual look, and maintained an image of everyday British young females. As their career progressed into a worldwide phenomenon, the girls and their manager Simon Fuller became more aware of the impact their images had. The Spice Girls soon became noticeable just by their clothes and hairstyles, and soon became icons of late 1990s fashion. In a summer 1996 issue of Top of the Pops magazine, editor Peter Loraine gave them nicknames for their images and personalities, and this soon had an impact on their fashion. In contrast to their early career, the girls soon began to differ their images from each other, and each girl had a unique look.

er his Spice Girls point, not the one where Morrissey is as relevant and omnipresent as Wagner

(the one he is rebutting that is, I am terrible at posting today)

More on the Spice Girls. They were in cahoots with "the media" (TOTP magazine LOL) re the nicknames.

July 1996

A feature in Top of the Pops magazine gives the Spice Girls their nicknames, Posh, Baby, Scary, Sporty and Ginger. Editor Peter Loraine suggests the names during lunch with the girls in Notting Hill.

"I simply said it would be a good idea if they had some nicknames. The girls liked the idea, so I had an editorial meeting back at the office and about four of us started thinking of names. Posh was the first one to be thought up because Victoria looks pretty sophisticated. The rest were pretty easy really because the girls' characters were already really strong. The names jumped out at us. We laughed the most when we came up with Scary. Jennifer Cawthron, who was also from Leeds, came up with that one because Mel B was so loud and had tried to take over our whole photo shoot.

"We ran the names for a couple of issues and the first time the girls saw them they thought it was funny. Then the newspapers started picking up on the names and they cropped up everywhere until they were fully accepted by everyone."

The reason black athletes wrapped in the union flag is a big deal is because of the way it was so closely associated with the far right for so many years

1)I didn't know it was a big deal
2)what is is your definition of black? Are you talking about the photo above?

It's a big deal. Lots of people from minority backgrounds wouldn't have felt comfortable being associated with the flag in the seventies, eighties and early nineties, many would still be uncomfortable with it today. Athletes from Thompson to Christie to Farah being positively associated with it, and increasingly seen as British first and black second (which wasn't always the case with Thompson's generation, or even Christie's - see Seb Coe's "jive talk" quotes) changes the way in which national iconography is perceived by some.

I'm not really sure a Morrissey thread is the best place to get into a discussion about whether the British-Jamaican Jessica Ennis is "black" or not.

shari vari otm - 2012 was definitely a turning point in what the union jack means, a big step in redeeming it. 1992 was a massively different story.

http://www.albamblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/daley-thompson-400.jpg

This one is particularly cute

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/14/article-2014877-002FD7DB00000258-870_634x456.jpg

jess ennis is a curious shade of black imo

Please elaborate

Shortly before the 2012 Summer Olympics, British athlete Daly Thompson made an anti-Irish statement on live television. When Thompson was shown an image of a runner with a misspelt tattoo, he said that the person responsible for the misspelling must have been Irish.

DT fitting right in with the UJ crowd.

she's very light skinned, black is totally inappropriate. also it annoys me when a person has one 'black' parent and one 'white' parent and they are immediately deemed 'black'. they are mixed race, but not black.

what is she was 3/4s black, or 7/8s? What is black enough before you stop finding it "curious"?

Very good, OutdoorFish

Very good

ilikewherethisisgoing.jpg

when would she be white?

OutdoorFish, are you white?

hmmmmmm good question

brown i'd say

cappuchino

Gentlemen, no uncomfortable discussion of racial theory here please, this is the Morrissey thread.

bit late now lol

or was that a joke?

You're frankly vulgar
Red pullover
Now see how the two colors blend, my friend
Won't somebody help?

Not really wanting to get into it but I am with Kitchener on this.

http://youtu.be/jnyMtml7k_w

Nobody is denying that there were black British Olympians competing under the flag in the eighties but Daley is something of an outlier. He's unbelievably right-wing. Whenever the Mail wants to tell black people what's wrong with them, he's the go-to guy for quotes to cover against accusations of racism. I've always wondered how competing for Britain in a racist environment contributed to that.

she's very light skinned, black is totally inappropriate. also it annoys me when a person has one 'black' parent and one 'white' parent and they are immediately deemed 'black'. they are mixed race, but not black.
― OutdoorFish, Thursday, June 26, 2014 6:35 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This must be really annoying for you

extremely

http://www.nndb.com/people/649/000022583/colin-powell-sm.jpg

Are you seriously trying to argue that Colin Powell is not black

http://i.imgur.com/RdJ4B7w.jpg

When Colin Powell first started making the news around Desert Storm, I assumed from his skin tone and eye structure that he was Chinese. One day in 7th-grade history class the teacher was talking about prominent African-American leaders and mentioned Powell. I whispered to the girl sitting next to me "I thought he was Chinese" and she told on me for making a racist comment.

that girl... was Meghan McCain

Lmao - that reminds me, been meaning to track down some Carribean Chinese restaurants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Chinese_cuisine

Powell really seriously black?

what the hell is happening

looooool dan

post needed a Paul Harvey.jpg

Not does Morrissey post to ilx he has several sock puppets

A Morrissey sock puppet, yesterday

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ys8o7O4z1r24ea2.jpg

I still find myself suffering a feeling of discomfort any time I see an English or Union flag draped from a house window, whether we're competing in international sports or not. I'll admit, one of the first words that comes into my mind is "nationalist". On the other hand, if I were to see the Scottish flag draped from a house window, I wouldn't think anything of it.

Yeah but Scottish nationalism it's like you just wanna muss up its hair, give it a dollar to run down to the corner and get since candy

How do you get to be a four-star general without shooting someone?

Speaking of Morrissey sock puppets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr1IjiNcJWg

pfft how many times would Dan have told -me- to shut up by now?

loving that Colin Powell quote

otm

yeah was wondering where that was from cuz it looks a little

- bob marley

but it is great

Tim Siedell @badbanana · Jun 24
Girlfriend in a Food Coma #YummySmiths

Alex Lowe @aelowe1 · Jun 24
@badbanana Ballpark Frankly, Mr. Shankly #yummysmiths

You’re The One For Me, Fatty Tuna #YummySmiths

Henry Finlay @henryfinlay1 · Jun 24
The Boy with the Corn on the Side #YummySmiths

Matt Sikorski @Sikorkasaurus · Jun 24
@badbanana How Soon Is Chow? #YummySmiths

there is a sunny delight that never goes out

pfft how many times would Dan have told -me- to shut up by now?

Well you see it's sort of like the Luis Suarez case

other Dan!

that fat lad at the end of that Fifa football is for all ad, that's not the bassist for bowling for soup is it

uh wrong thread

Point stands! xxp

ha

Still Ill?

http://www.theattackzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Led-Zeppelin-III3.jpg

haha exactly what I thought of too

Licence To III

illmozic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJOU76JjxOc&feature=kp

Speaking of which, surprised there's been no ... ill communication from the Moz camp.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee20/jesuisjulie/hooligans.jpg

"what drugs are you on?"

Lol @ picture of Daley Thompson in this thread, like a picture of a black guy with a union jack hand waves away centuries of racism. In this case a black guy who happens to be a homophobic right-wing puppet arsehole.

http://club.quizkerala.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/904.jpg

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20131013/rs_634x1024-131113182952-634.taylor-unionjack.cm.111313.jpg

?

What do you mean? I am starting to fucking hate you at this point, How's fucking life

What the fuck, homeslice? I'm just asking you if she's a fascist.

Seriously though, is just a joke.

I suppose this guys a racist now?
http://www.nme.com/images/gallery/081124_92559_axlrose_PA.jpg

"now"

And will Bowie be the next one accused of using fascist imagery?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eF7bfX6OL.jpg

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/def_leppard_union_jack_9522.jpg

do keep up

Shall we just keep posting pix of all the English racists so ILMer know who's a dickhead?
http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/john_lydon_sex_pistols_union_jack.jpg

https://thegenealogyofstyle.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/john_lennon_union_jack_coat_sweater.jpg?w=730

Is there anyone who HASN'T done this?
https://thegenealogyofstyle.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/65195396_queen_flag.jpg?w=730

the Queen=fascists argument was last month

only colour Queen cared about is your money. yes they did play sun city.

yes, Queen=fascists and Morrissey=it's complicated, got it. xp

how many keyboards dyou chew yr way through per week xelab

Let's get this straight, a racist with a Union Jack is generally a racist, on the other hand a non-racist with a Union Jack is 9 times out of ten not a racist. Since Morrissey has been ambivalent and written songs that can be construed in a racist way, he can easy be seen as racist. Therefore being seen at a Madness festival (many skinhead fans) holding a Union Jack having recently unveiled a song called The National Front Disco is only going to fuel the flames.

"To be standing by the flag,
Not feeling Shameful,
Racist or Partial"

or so he says...

I'm glad that we haven't forgotten Morrissey. Tell me, is there any word on his health?

idg why people consider National Front Disco racist either. It's basically a retread of XTCs No Thugs in Our House lyrically. (I'm fairly certain there's tons of songs in this tradition)

xp

not since cliff said he was still in hospital

xp

he is dead. Darraghmac's mother finished him off.

what an obscure statement. but its not impossible I guess.

xpost - Irish Blood English Heart - always thought that song is obviously critical of English misadventures overseas; the voice of the song is Moz's Irish heritage criticising the general non-condemnation of of the C17th invasion? Or something like that.

he is dead. Darraghmac's mother finished him off.

mater's murder

this is all good stuff.

wd like to know how racist the following is: BAN LOUIS JAGGER AND SOMETIMES JHOSHEA APPRECIATION THREAD

http://modculture.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451cbb069e20133f26479df970b-800wi

http://37.media.tumblr.com/9f9acc93d2523cee7d97c4f16465625e/tumblr_mpd2axe1mM1s5btopo1_500.jpg

[Removed Illegal Image]

Well they did name one of their albums 'Powerslave'

who is xelab?

morrissey

nah man for real you guys always tryin to get slick and change your names and shit

you got me. xelab is really johnny marr

trying to think of a recently MIA british hardman

yeah I dunno. maybe he's just new and temperamental

oh just another sweetness and joy ray of light in our lives, prickly but heart of gold kinda thing

[Removed Illegal Image]

― leave the web boys alone (darraghmac),

this, if anything, was an understatement btw

xelab is a longish-time poster who mostly adopts the lower case login when he wants to do the purple-faced impotent rage thing. don't totally 'get' it but it seems to play to the galleries

http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/Friendship-Pins/Great-Britain/Flag-Pins-Great-Britain-Confederate-battle.jpg

Sorry for being a rude arsehole last night. It is infuriating when people indulge in this thoughtless FB style Lol union jack shit though. I maintain that THAT is vulgar, unfunny shit, not worthy of this place. I need a second thought before posting sometimes, going to make an effort to behave better in future.

xelab otm

had to look up what the deal was w/ that t-shirt Daley is wearing up there. what a prick

lol at this though http://topnews.in/sports/daley-thompson-olympian-most-brit-gays-want-date-22911

applying a benefit of doubt here in interests of peace.

that aside, the insistence that the flag of a country of however many millions with however many hundreds of years history means any one thing else we fight online is weird IMO

tho I thought the context added in yrs and Stevie's posts both interesting and illuminating also

The gold shirt / union jack / Madstock cover essay was by Dele Fadele, wasn't it? That's an important element of context if so

http://i.imgur.com/rzT7SIk.jpg

hee

Morrissey, you are the quarry.

Tallulah Gosh, Stone Roses, Loop & Dexys albums out on display makes that Haim record look like it's fallen thru a wormhole

haimhole

Mott the Wormhole

Listening to the new album in the car..

Amber: "He seems to like Scandinavia.."
Me: "Yeah.. He used to like Rome too.. Oh, and he had a song called "I'm throwing my arms around Paris"
Amber: "You sure he didn't mean Paris Hilton?"
Me: "Um, I think I'd have noticed that one"

...

Shit, I need Turns Into Stone on vinyl. What Amoeba was that?

Is Morrissey still ill

Shit, I need Turns Into Stone on vinyl. What Amoeba was that?

― brotherlovesdub

It was re-released a couple of years ago on vinyl and is quite easy to get on Amazon and elsewhere. First album has just been brought out again too.

He is not ill, he prevaricates to his audience about his health every time he cops a flu because that is the type of self absorbed, shitty old narcissistic racist cunt that he is. When he genuinely goes, you won't hear fucking anything, it will be like a tiny little bubble popping.

When he genuinely goes, you won't hear fucking anything

Tbf, that'll probably be because he's dead. If Morrissey wanted to go out like a champ, though, he would leave behind hundreds of missives, with the directive that they be released to the public at irregular intervals in perpetuity. And at least a third should be about imminent new albums.

I was referring to scare stories about his fragile health not his garbage music.

i'm gonna go out on a limb and say when morrissey dies it's gonna be covered somewhat extensively in the press

But he won't be able to orchestrate the build up to his death. And maybe by then nobody will GAF.

sheesh you hate him we get it give it a rest

and people are absolutely going to GAF when he dies, dude is a huge icon on multiple continents whether you like it or not

He is a rotten character, as is your shitty defence of him up-thread - give that a fucking rest.

couldnt orchestrate anything without marr anyway

heyoooooh

He is a rotten character, as is your shitty defence of him up-thread - give that a fucking rest.

― festival of labour (xelab),

^^ the death of a Crisco dancer

i just typed a post that said "he seems a weird type to be racist: effete vegan whose main talent is creating art out of his grandiose self-pity" but then realized that sentence also describes hitler

what are your favorite Hitler paintings and novels?

lol

"Anschluss, Here We Come"

i think hitler's book appealed to people and that's part of why he rose to power. his readers identified with him, which is also what morrissey songs encourage you to do

hang der juden

When Morrissey does fucking eat it, as usual Alfred's obituary will be a hell of a lot older than the stiff.

http://www.bokaimages.com/images/specials/tumblr_l6y0zz2aPz1qd1z7lo1_500.jpg

xelab is feisty. i like him or her.

"what this place really needed was somebody to just keep yelling at people"

whineys been slacking tbf

Smells like masonic socks around here.

you're barking up the wrong sock there

Gold-tipped sock point taken and apologies.

unless the definition of vegan has recently been changed to "someone who isn't vegan" then i don't think morrissey or hitler are/were vegan

trying to work up a "[something] in a Korma" gag but i got nothing, sorry

I assumed Morrissey was and just didn't change the original text of that post in order to have it perfect fit Hitler. Mea culpa xpost

lol Alfred

morrissey isn't vegan because he doesn't actually care about "beings", but pretending he does gives him opportunity to be a shit to some

morrissey says that animals are as important as people yet 99% of his songs are about people

Picadilly Mee-ow-re
was just silly slang
between me & the cats
in my gang

November a Lobster Spawned

GHERKIN in a Korma!!!

knew i'd get there in the end

Bengal Tiger in Platforms (fuck off back to your own country and keep indigenous Siberian Tiger culture pure)

morrissey isn't vegan because he doesn't actually care about "beings", but pretending he does gives him opportunity to be a shit to some

ilx

His new album gets 9/10 in this weeks NME and apparently he's on the front cover next week. Are these events in any way connected?

hitler was not actually a vegan (or vegetarian) for most of his life

yeah, he gets a bad rap

he cared about animals but he wasn't a nazi about it or anything

adolf, it was really nothing

RIP morrissey

tbf, it's his best album since "Your Arsenal"

actually it's probably xelab who's the racist

due to the racism

What? Fuck off and die you loathsome timewasting piece of shit.

an interesting drug
tell the truth
it really helped you

What sheep said
how come someone hasn't noticed that im dead
and decided to shear me
god knows im ready

His new album gets 9/10 in this weeks NME and apparently he's on the front cover next week. Are these events in any way connected?

― Kitchen Person, Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they probably both have something to do with the new album coming out so yeah

tbf, it's his best album since "Your Arsenal"

― Mark G, Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:18 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thank GOD someone is being fair to Morrissey

aye, good ol' God.

do we have a thread for the album? I have to say that three random songs in, it's sounding surprisingly good (haven't heard a Moz album in full since Vauxhall)

I looked for one before posting my last but one message : No.

be the change you want to see in the world

Morrissey - World Peace Is None Of Your Business Thread

I keep seeing this thread title and hearing it in a hip hop context

I keep hearing clueless

"be the change you want to see in the world" - M D Chapman

ok lol

he's alive (if not well) in switzerland apparently

*wipes sweat from brow, exhales*

is morrissey seriously putting out mob hits on fan sites???

http://pitchfork.com/news/56088-morrisseys-bodyguard-sues-claims-morrissey-wanted-him-to-hurt-fan-site-operator/

This is pretty much amazing

Just when you think "oh, two weeks have gone by without Moz dramz" and then this happens.

Hope this wasn't an actual thing because from all reports David T is a good kinda guy?

So is this the real reason why the tour was cancelled?

Statement from Morrissey:

http://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_140730_01

As mildly irritating as David Tseng may be, he is not someone who troubles me enough to even bother with.

This is Morrissey not bothering:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2011/jul/14/morrissey-fans

After a 5,000-mile trip from LA to Copenhagen, a Morrissey fansite owner was looking forward to seeing his favourite artist in concert. Instead he was refused entry and given a lifetime ban

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/jun/29/morrissey-wages-war-fansite

the singer took to the stage on Monday night wearing a shirt slamming a popular fansite. "FUCK MORRISSEY-SOLO.COM," read the black T, versions of which were also worn by his band.

http://cdn.stereogum.com/files/2014/07/morrissey-solo-tshirt.jpg

fuck morrissey solo

fuck morrissey in collaboration with a bomb disposal expert imo, word has it there are explosive kegs between his legs

fuck morrissey solo

My takeaway as well.

"Mr Tseng, via his poisonous website, has caused so much intentional distress to Morrissey and Morrissey's band over the years that Mr Tseng is not welcome at any Morrissey shows."

I misread this as "intestinal distress," and figured that's why he cancelled his tour.

Wow, has he ever used as much reverb on his vocal as he does on the new album? It's like he's singing from the YWCA locker room.

he liked it there so he stayed

Man, I don't know anything at all about the guy that runs the site (or the site itself really) but, damn, I feel really bad for dude (unless there is more to this story and he shouldn't be worthy of my pity). To discover that not only did the artists that you've dedicated so much time and energy to hate you, he actually might have wanted to have you killed.

annoying fans can be pretty goddamn annoying

I imagine that among at least some Moz fans, annoying him enough that he calls you out by name is a badge of honour.

a tacky badge of honour

the dumb thing was is the site was so pro-morrissey and so enthusiastic about every dumb b-side he ever dropped! i used to go there around the release of you are the quarry

I just assume the guy ate a hamburger in Moz's presence or something

Is he actually really sick? Can someone just say y/n? I do not have time to read thread but feel like I need to know. Thx.

it also featured some psychopathic moz haters that continually posted anonymously, though that has died down now. they also got really heavy at one point trying to control what people wrote, but still allowed the psychos to post. now people are free to post as they please, so when moz says david tseng controls what is published it no longer holds true.

https://web.archive.org/web/19970415054403/http://www.morrissey-solo.com/

ctrl-f "health"

it also featured some psychopathic moz haters that continually posted anonymously, though that has died down now.

actually thought this was responding to ENBB's qu about this thread

Sometimes I think he prevaricates publicly about his health because his whole life's mission is to be mourned like Valentino or something and he desires to test his fans love whilst still breathing. He is such a contemptible, vain, racist, ugly, uninspired fucking 3rd rate faux Irish cunt - the sooner he actually dies the better imo.

hopefully he'll have you killed for your cheek

lol @ faux Irish

do you think he's actually from Swindon or something

Can someone help me figure out how xelab really feels about Morrissey? He's being so cryptic about it, it's maddening.

He is as Irish as I am, but you you won't get this being an American, the land where even the most tenuous connection makes you Irish.

Loves music, hates racism, has morrissey in the dead pool

Xp

you you won't get this being an American, the land where even the most tenuous connection makes you Irish

let's all keep our petty regionalisms to ourselves shall we

Massively ironic coming from a Morrissey apologist!

I consider myself more of a Morrissey trainspotter

Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post

"I hope Morrissey changes the lyrics a little:

Kiss me a lot, kiss me a lot
and come all over my face

For all the homosexual gay Morrissey fans.

That would make a great single! With Rainbow art work!"

The lyrics on the original demo were

"Jizz me a lot, Jizz me alot,
Jizz me all over my face"

Has it leaked? (pun intended)

"3rd rate faux Irish cunt" - agree, not as impressive as first rate faux Irish cunts like Shane McGowan or John Lydon

Anyone who uses the term "prevaricates" on an internet message board is either actually a huge Morrissey fan or Morrissey himself.

What's up Moz?

David Tseng is a sweet, nice, smart guy, from what I know of him--
if a bit of a masochist for sticking with the site. Morrissey just hates there
Is a website about him that he doesn't control, I think.

I've met him. Thoroughly low-key, pleasant dude.

whew! i wasn't sure if he deserved to be killed or not

^^^^ you are the quarrry

is the part in morrissey's statement where he's all "i wouldn't even bother with him" supposed to imply he's some ruff gangster who routinely has people 'taken care of'?

Just write a song about it and stop making a pathetic fool of yourself, dude.

Death of a Moz blogger

http://pitchfork.com/news/56996-morrissey-says-hes-received-cancer-treatments/

:(

:,(

:(

I know nobody believes they are really his "last UK shows" but surprised there has been no comment (unless I have missed this).

My work colleague claims he made no reference to Cameron at last night's show.

I thought the extract was a parody:

http://thequietus.com/articles/18847-morrissey-s-debut-novel-tanks

On a par with his lyrics.

"Last UK shows" my arsenal. He's basically going on a talent strike, saying that well, if no one will sign me, why should I perform, since the only point of performing is to sell new stuff?

sounds as if the talent strike was already in place when he started work on the novel

URL above led me to believe Morrissey had named his debut novel, "Tanks".

Irish Heart, English Blood and all that... or whatever the fuck way round it is.

“In the church of secret service known as the abattoir this is exactly what humans excitedly do to beautiful bodies of animals who were also crafted in care by some divine creationist, yet at the human hand the animals are whacked and hacked into chopped meat whilst gazing up at their protector with disbelief and pleading for a mercy not familiar to the human spirit, ground and round into hash or stew for the Big Mac pleasure of fat-podge children whose candidature for roly-poly vicious porkiness makes their plungingly plump parents laugh loudly, as little junior blubber-guts orders yet another Super-burger with tub-of-guts determination to stuff death into round bellies, and such kids come to resemble their parents as ten pounds of s--- in a five-pound bag.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/authors/morrissey-list-of-the-lost-best-lines/

So, he's still a vegetarian then.

(xp) Jeezus, I don't hold much store by the ould fella but I somehow expected better than that.

wow - roll over Marcel Proust

"whilst" bothers me so much

... that and every other word.

Is Morrissey not a very nice person, or is there a media conspiracy to portray him negatively? Speculative answers welcome

(but really, it's something I can't figure out: he wrote all those fantastic songs, some very sympathetic, some very funny - how could he possibly be an idiot??? and if he's not an idiot, why are there all these crazy Moz-quotes?)

Don't know where to start with that last post.

I have a headache today, really wanted to formulate a better post but gave up - question still sort of serious though, like, I'm still curious to know if I should keep on sympathizing with Moz/defend him or if he's just no longer a v cool person

and by "cool" I guess I mean "nice" or "good" but in sort of a relaxed way

stupid headache

At least I finally got some lolz out of this continually disappointing thread. (✌ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞

In their secrecy, Harri does not like Tracey’s knotted banana toes, and Tracey finds the manly central issue too slight to grip, and although such things ought not to count in the adult mind, somehow they do yet they don’t yet they do yet they don’t.

#5 in that list reads like a set of rejected Cardiacs lyrics.

I have a headache today, really wanted to formulate a better post but gave up - question still sort of serious though, like, I'm still curious to know if I should keep on sympathizing with Moz/defend him or if he's just no longer a v cool person

it's actually an interesting question because what's good in his work is a sense of humanity and decency, but what's bad in both the work & in the public self (which we have to assume reflects himself: the one who answers questions for interviewers is not just a construct, he's not playing a part to be critiqued while holding opinions to the contrary of the things he says, etc) is really super gross, unkind, uncharitable, mean and petty. since his body of work is the construction of a public self, the question "what happened to you?" is pretty fair imo -- but I think, you know, the stuff that made him rich and that almost everybody has to confess some affection for is pretty heavily narcissistic stuff, stuff that glorifies the speaker and excludes anything like dialogue: Morrissey's work is a man expressing his opinions, often not even about his experiences but about the stuff he thought about while sitting around in his room. but "a man alone with his thoughts is in bad company" after a while -- an idealistic teenager may think "people ought to be nice to animals" or "the royal family, what horseshit" but the same man, having been repeatedly told by others & by his bank account that he's just a stellar dude, may (and does) think some pretty shitty thoughts, which he'll also then share in the hopes of being praised some more, and will then be resentful, like a child, when the people who feed him stop applauding his use of the potty

tl;dr this is what happens when you decline to mature after adolescence but still have a microphone

All that is so, probably.

It was striking for me that on his last album it took until track three (I think) for him to make reference to himself.

List of the Lost is, by some large distance, the worst book I have ever read. So sad to see the man who was the most gifted lyricist of his generation – someone who combined past and present to create his own wholly recognisable world – descend to this.

Joan, that's an excellent post. Also, doesn't he bore himself going on about the monarchy, vegetarianism, The royals & Oscar Wilde over and over again for 40+ years?

Morrissey is, like Prince, such a rarified and private personality that I've heard next to nothing about him as a person, and even when I have, it raises more questions than it answers. The most "human" thing I've heard is that he and his bandmates play soccer together all the time, which is not unlike stories of people playing basketball with Prince. Other than that, the "real" Morrissey seems to be on double-secure lockdown.

For that matter, he seems like such the opposite of indie bro Marr that I can't tell if Morrissey has changed, Marr has changed, or if their opposite nature is what somehow made them such strong collaborators in the first place.

I read a review of the book today saying at least the jury for the Bad Sex Award would only have to read one book this year :(

Joanie very otm

I enjoyed the autobiography tbh, at least the first 2/3rds of it or so. but bro has not aged well.

For that matter, he seems like such the opposite of indie bro Marr that I can't tell if Morrissey has changed, Marr has changed, or if their opposite nature is what somehow made them such strong collaborators in the first place.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, September 25, 2015 9:39 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in There Is A Light That Never Goes out, you def get the impression that Marr was always like that, very outgoing, good at "networking", ambitious and affable, "one of the lads"

like he just naturally gets along w/ppl sounds like

Was List of the Lost ghostwritten by Tom Watson?

I wonder if Moz can possibly be surprised at the critical reception, and how he's taking it

Morrissey really mentally ill? is a better question.

Looking forward to Moz/Franzen collabo.

J/k

For some reason, I get the feeling the whole thing is a contractual obligation.

Like, Moz has to write the book so he's written something bonkers.

And now the publisher has to publish it.

i doubt that but it does make you wonder if he had a contractual stipulation not to have an editor because no editor worth their salt and none working for penguin main-line would let that through, surely.

You know that review of 1066 and all that, "Quotation is hopeless, every sentence clamours for it" ?

Change Quotation for "Excision", ...

i understand what you mean, i think but:

Rare is the writer who is willing to complain that the big problem with Churchill during the war was that he was, frankly, a bit of a coward and unwilling to try to identify with the people he governed, but Morrissey is that writer. “Churchill himself would experience World War 2 safely and in a suite of rooms at Claridge’s most luxurious Mayfair hotel, with not a complicated twitch or pang to trouble his elaborate evening meal.” We’ll leave aside the fact that he makes it sound like Claridge’s is a chain, with the Mayfair branch simply its most upscale outpost – “Yeah, I was going to go stop at the Travelodge, but I got a deal on the Claridge’s at Peterborough services” – and instead note that the entire passage reads like a polemic written by a particularly single-minded street corner pamphleteer (see also Morrissey’s writing about the pernicious power of, wait for it, local television news. Damn you, Look North, with your hegemony!).

no editor would have let "a suite of rooms at Claridge’s most luxurious Mayfair hotel," slip through the net unless they were terrified of moz or a fanboy and therefore not a good editor (if there was one, as i said).

i would love one for my posts and i do need one, as you can tell.

My drive to work is too long and I often ponder about things, sometimes to get my brain away from "work".

Anyway, partly triggered by that Daily Mail banner headline that seemed to be suggesting the deaths of David Bowie and Terry Wogan as some kind of competition and partly influenced by enjoying a Best of Morrissey ... I found myself pondering Morrissey's obituaries. How will he be described? Will he appear on the front pages of newspapers, aside from the Guardian and Independent?

(Its been a while since I played any Morrissey and I was struck by how odd/quirky/creative much of it was).

jangle pop militant vegan crank

front page of the LA Times

Minor cult figure snuffs it

'List of the Lost' Author Dies In Double-Decker Bus Incident

Gay racist trampled by thankless beef cattle

complete twat snoozled in sleepland

Rupert Everett dies

Followed by apology,clarification

"Now Morrissey dies"

Smiths reunion tour ends tragically (before it ever really began, but in my heart it was so real).

"Morrissey tour dates cancelled"

don't you ever crave
to appear on the front of the Daily Mail?

Meatus Murdered

World Mourns 'You're The One for Me, Fatty' Hitmaker

Mozz Takes Aging Badly to Next Level

The Death Of A Racist Chancer
Heaven Is Miserable Now
etc

Petty Mozz Makes Grave

He Can Feel The Soil Falling Over His Head.

He wished to be buried at seasick

Mozz Takes Aging Badly to Next Level

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, February 5, 2016 3:06 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is amazing.

i posted speedway on facebook today because it is a beautiful song but it didn't get any likes. feel worried that my fb friends think i am endorsing racism

like, not that worried, but a little worried

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6a/73/c7/6a73c73d5db0f35cc5c45b1d3a20335f.jpg

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2019/04/13/morrissey-medical-emergency-accident-canada-concerts-postoned/?fbclid=IwAR0YmKpEcg3maQgXfsIwhAXobuJR7mjYWXY3cz8_SzflhuXKJVRgS8ih0TQ

doing Sieg Heil salutes at his age can really throw your shoulder out

“Due to a medical emergency stemming form an accident incurred while traveling in Europe,

what did Europe do now?

Jean-Claude Juncker glassed Mozzer.

the seem week yakety yak made a pissed up prick out of himself in Prague, hmm.

I think you've cracked it... which is what "Tommy" said to Moz when he slipped on Tommy's puke and fell headfirst into the toilet bowl in that Czech hotel room.

> Fans on Reddit noted that after playing ‘Hand in Glove’, taken from The Smiths’ 1984 debut album, he “instantly went into talking about enemies”. In a video shared by fans on Instagram, Morrissey is seen launching into a tirade about having enemies he described as “extremely weak”.

Morrisey really seriously illing.