Taking sides: Madonna or Janet Jackson?

Then the nineties happened -- and frankly, at this point, Janet all the way. But if it really came down it, I'd rate both equally high.

Now, if we were talking Cyndi Lauper vs. LaToya...

"Got Til It's Gone" is one of those records I just cannot get into, actually.

Janet Jackson is a plague on this earth.

Madonna, on the other hand, is pretty much a culture defining event, or was back in the day. Janet has no claim to that.

THE ALL FOR YOU ALBUM DEBUTS WITH OVER 600,000 COPIES IN THE US! HOLY MACROW! THAT TOTALLY BEATS MADONNA WITH MUSIC IN THE US DEBUT! JANET IS HOT AS EVER!!!

WATCH FOR HER TOUR! GO JANET - YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THE QUEEN OF POP! AND BETTER THAN STUPID MADONNA!

One can always expect something new from all of Madonna's concerts. One can always expect everything similar in all of Janet's concerts.

Just like her brother, Michael, Janet really needs to go back to desert where she was treated for depression, and ask whoever she met there for better ideas to produce an album and making a watchable concert!

Madonna rocks and Madonna is a whole lot better than Janet,...Whitney...Mariah.... Celine.... Shania ..... Faith Hill.... Christina.... Britney .....COMBINED!!!

Her music, singing and dancing never change since the 80s. Even Mariah Carey changes her way of singing. Madonna changes to keep up with the time. That's what I call trend-setting.

Janet should be kept traumatised by her childhood experiences. She should never be allowed to record another album unless she can come up with something new. At the age of 33 (she claimed she was only 30 at the MTV Icon - what bullshit! That bitch!), she should just make music that's relevant to her age and not trying to be and outdo Britney.

I think Janet only has Madonna to thank for her so-called sexy images. If it wasn't for Madge paving the way for women sexual power, Janet will never ever be so daring.

Having seen her last concert, she really has nothing much to offer.

Janet,

I hope you retire fast. Cause you're full of crap and you sure have no business being in this business in the first place.

Jefri

I really can't pick one. In fact, it seems counter-productive to me to make that decision.

Besides, if you want bitter ranting at an ex you've always got "Son Of A Gun", where Carly Simon shows that James Taylor took her sanity as well as her heart when they broke up. :)

Yeah, and if it were Mandy Moore or someone it might sound more charming. But with Janet I hear it and think, "Um, maybe thinking this way at your age is what's led you into trouble to begin with?"

I'm not asking for bitter ranting, maybe just a love song that's a little more wise and knowing.

Point taken. Perhaps "Better Days" would suit you better, even though it isn't specifically a love song.

THIS POST WASN'T JUST MEANT FOR THE ONE BROAD AT SLUTY MADONNA LAND, BUT TO SOME OTHER PEOPLE, TOO!!!

You must be a fake like Janet is! Don't call me a braud, you son of a fucking whore. Or maybe you're a fag. Janet is a copycat right from the beginning. First her brother, then Madonna. Check out her concerts. It was just plain singing and dancing and then when Madonna came out with Blonde Ambition and The Girlie Show, which had theatrical elements in them, Janet followed suit.

And by the way, Janet did claim she was 30 on MTV Icon! I've dealt with a few cheats in my life, and you are no exception.

Janet lip-synchs most of her songs in concerts. That's why she has no problem dancing. Britney looked up to Janet most probably because she too can't sing live on stage what's with all the dancing.

I've been to latest concert, and comparing it to her previous ones, there's no difference. It's really sad that someone with her experience and "brilliance" of showmanship has to stick to the same old tactics and concepts for her concert.

Madonna's concert was a breathtaking experience. It's really different from her last concerts. If an artiste holds a concert, I'm sure their fans expect to see something different or new each time. Sad to say, Janet has none of that. That goes for her music too!

Madonna's Bedtime Stories does have tinges of R&B, but the music she puts on is not Janet-esque! It's more hip hop. Janet's "janet" album was all about sex. You have to realise that she did this only a year after Madonna's "Erotica". Her Rhythm Nation and Control album talks about the society and her fight for freedom.

It's only after Madonna released Sex and Erotica, that Janet finally found her freedom - which is to be sexy (I supposed! ).

Remember how Janet used to be all covered up from neck to leg. She only started revealing for Love Will Never Do Without You (which is one of my favourite songs from her - the others being That's the Way Love goes and If). "Love will Never Do" was released only after Madonna's Justify My Love (banned for it's sexuality!). So you see where I'm going when I say Janet does copy Madonna!

It's all the same with Janet. Besides, Janet's dancing was made popular not only because of her. It was her choreographers like Paula Abdul and Tina Landon (whom she dissed!)

True, she has great music videos. And on that, Janet and Madonna are indeed on par when it comes to producing quality videos.

Janet must try even harder to let people know she is an original.

Your taste bud is probably numb. Bad taste. I pity the bitch who let you lick her. Anyway, I still stand my ground that Janet is a copycat. She follows where Madonna leads.

And you, fag, you're following where I lead!

And by the way, Madonna Rocks!

You don't have to worry about my family too. We're quite well off. Never had a slave in our history!

I'm not going to say Janet rocks! It sounds SO SO CORNY! I'm going to say Janet is the best and can't be fucked with!!!! Sorry you haven't realize that! I'm done now!

Maybe yr mastery of the English language scared them all off.

I couldn't agree more with you. What a disgrace! Must be one of those school drop-outs cases! ha ha ha ha ha .......

And Alfonse, I'm not racist. You touch on my family and that's really deadly. You got what you deserved. And try signing up for one of those grammar classes, won't you?

Madonna's music does change. You must be really stupid or deaf or dumb or all of the above to not be able to differentiate.

I'm outta here. Oh and you really made a fool of yourself with what you said. I like that very much. Do more of that in future.

I think you're great! :-)

You are the idiot! I bet your mum must be ashamed that you came out of her womb. You must be the bastard child of one of the men she slept with. Only problem is, she doesn't know which one. Oh you are so illegitimate! ha ha ha ha ha.......

I suppose you seek solace in praising Janet. For Christ. Janet is now on your cross!

I really don't even know why I stooped to your level, but I just felt like I needed to say that and let the truth be told. I don't like to bring people moms in things that doesn't concern them because they {the moms}didn't say anything, yet, being the asshole you are, you go and do it. But I'm finish with you. You're very immature not me. I don't get paid to keep arguing with dumb fucks like yourself!!

Do you really know your dad? Your mom is such a whore she might have brought someone home for you to call dad. Come on Al. Keep searching for your dad. Look Oprah or Rosie up for help. YOu poor bastard son of a stray bitch!

This just isn't true. Erotica easily blows any of Janet's post Rhythm Nation albums out of the water, and Ray of Light and Music trump all but Janet's very best singles.

The problem for me is that Janet is very much a one trick pony in my book, and it's not even her own trick. Her songs are victims of weak song writing, and her voice is just about the most irritating thing I've heard in my life, besides her brother's. She's got great production, generally. That's not enough for me to respect a song. Anyone can get great producers, including Madonna. Not everyone can write a song up on par with Bad Girl.

i whore myself.

I love what you wrote. It's really an open translation to the last three Madonna albums which some people think are crap, only because they don't understand what's behind each and every song.

I love the last three albums especially Music and Bedtime Stories.

Once again, great writing!

Jefri

Madonna Janet Jackson Whitney Houston Mariah Carey Aretha Franklin Olivia Newton-John Celine Dion Diana Ross Barbra Streisand Donna Summer

My ranking, in terms of pure personal enjoyment of each:

1. Madonna

2. Donna Summer

3. Aretha

4. Olivia Newton John (just for Xanadu, mind)

5. Diana Ross

6. Janet

7. Whitney

I refuse to rank the rest because they are the worst artists ever.

OK, Sean, how many people did you write to? Gah.

Furthermore, Janet’s entrance into the music business was basically handed to her through her family’s connections. Wasn’t her brother a singer or something? Madonna started from nothing and got noticed through sheer determination. Madonna created her own success. Others created Janet. End of story.

PS What happened to the debate: Jefri vs. Alfonse? You guys are funny…

Therefore, I'd like to make a retraction on what I wrote.

"You don't have to worry about my family too. We're quite well off. Never had a slave in our history!"

The above remark I made to Alfonse was definitely uncalled for. But as I have explained to Sean. Wanna know what it is, ask him.

I apologise to anyone who is offended by the remarks. And to my black friends who was not very pleased with the remarks, my apologies to you too. But I've already explain everything to all of you and I'm so grateful you guys forgive me and still wanna be my friends.

If I did come across as being a racist, trust me, I am not trying to be one. I hate racism. And I can't believe I even made that remark. Really, that's assholy of me.

To Alfonse,

What can I say? But my apologies to you too. Let's just try to pan the two stars without having to pan each other.

Jefri

Now to Jefri, I'm glad and kind of surprised that you apologize about what you said. That is good and it is good to see that you knew you were in the wrong and were ignorant for saying that. I guess, you are forgiven, because that was REALLY uncalled for to say some shit like that. It made no sense to say that.

Janet = not as good as Madonna. So there. It's pure simple fact. If she was as good as Madonna, she wouldn't be chasing Madonna all the time.

All of Madonna’s films put together? Hmmmmmmmm. Lets see, A League of Their Own = $107.5 million and Dick Tracy made $103.7 million. That’s just two movies at $211.2 million. Nutty Professor II made (another correction) $123.3 million. Not sure if you’re a liar or just ignorant. Either way it’s sad.

Easily the best description of anyone I've ever heard :)

(warning: Serious Answer To This Question Below)

Just got done watching the concert on HBO, can I just say fantastic? "Drowned World" brought tears to my eyes in person (which is almost psychotic - never had that happen to me at a concert, I can almost understand those stupid girls who do that for the Backstreet Boys or N'Sync now) and again watching it on tv, amazingly. "Sky Fits Heaven" was still amazing on tv - the choreography was fantastic. That whole Japanese segment of the concert was stunning ("Frozen", "SFH", and "Nobody's Perfect"); not even stunning, the word doesn't describe it. It was the best concert I've ever seen, and seeing it again on tv merely reconfirmed it.

The thing is, and I'm going to clarify this again, I like Janet well enough. She has some solid songs, and "Love Will Never Do" is one of the best singles of the '90s, easily. That being said, she's not Madonna and she never will be Madonna. I can't think of a single truly dud Madonna single - even her bad singles ("Nothing Really Matters", "This Used To Be My Playground") are only bad by her standards, and generally light years ahead of her competitors. Stuff like "Live To Tell" and "Into The Groove" and "Vogue" and "Bad Girl" are things that most performers only dream of getting at even once in their careers, and how many times has Madonna done it? Just watching her two video collections prove it, as far as I'm concerned.

And that's the important thing. No one really discusses this in a discussion of Madonna. She has beyond solid music. She's not the best singer that ever lived, but she's easily one of the best performers, she's a very good lyricist (something that she's extrodinarily underrated on) and she picks collaborators who understand her vision and what she wants and works with them to create sound that, while not original in the technical sense of the word, can only be described as Madonna's. There's never a question, it's never like "This is a Jam & Lewis production, listen to those beats!" She's a vocal actor, not a singer, in my mind.

It's of course unfair to not bring in everything else Madonna does into a discussion of Madonna's merits - she's easily the best video artist ever (again, go rent the two video collections if you doubt - "Express Yourself" alone beats the pants off of anyone else, so getting to see "Vogue", "Material Girl", "Justify My Love" and "Bedtime Story" are just bonuses), for example. She's a phenomenon - no one else knows how to manipulate the media like her, no one else knows the power of change like her, except for perhaps Cher.

It's unfair to compare Janet Jackson to Madonna. Madonna is a force of nature, a pop goddess unlike any other that has ever been, a standard by which every female pop artist to come since her debut gets compared to. Janet is a good, great in some people's minds, R&B artist. No one gets referred to as the "latest Janet Jackson", though. There is a reason for this, and it's not meant as disrespect towards Janet. It is, in effect, "Taking Sides: the Shangri-Las versus All Saints". All Saints are great, I love them. They aren't the Shangri-Las. It's just as simple as that.

It's very indicative of a weird phenomenon I found when I read usenet: the Madonna newsgroup was CONSISTENTLY overrun by trolling Janet and Mariah fans, screeching harpies defending their princesses violently, apropos of virtually nothing. So one day I took a gander at the Janet and Mariah newsgroups, out of curiousity - I wanted to see if there was a reason for this, if there was some sort of cross NG war.

There wasn't. Janet and Mariah's newsgroups had almost no activity, and virtually no Madonna-trolling activity.

Here, it's already two to one in favor of shouty Janet bitches destroying any vestige of discussion and refusing to reply to salient points (the main reason why I wanted so damn long to make any salient points on the subject). And, quite honestly, I think that says something - they wouldn't feel the need to defend her so goddamned badly if they knew their argument was right.

I still feel this is a completely unfair debate. Why not taking sides: Janet versus Mariah? At least that's not apples and oranges.

Madonna/Janet = Britney/Christina

Hey Alfonse, we're legends in this thread, man! Woo hooo!!!!

Jefri

Her boobs really do frighten me, she shoves them in those goth corsets and then walks around, I expect them to start talking, like in that Richard E. Grant movie, except with boobs.

Madonna = no coffee enemas

Can we stop this now? I'm so glad your masturbation fantasy is personified in the Cat Alien Janet, but I really don't care. Don't hate on me and NS's conversation about chicks, boy.

I must say I do feel honored to be mentioned by name above, PLUS I even received some personalized e-mails (which I never read) from one Janet fan. How sweet.

(To be honest, I'm only posting this cos I want to get in on the email flaming action)

In addition, Rhythm Nation 1814 had the best message of racism in this world.

BOTTOM LINE: Madonna should not be compared to Janet, because Janet is on a higher level than Madonna...Madonna is more known around the world...good for her. But, Janet tops her, no question! Sorry folks.

JANET IS A TRAILBLAZER...does not follow...give me a break. MADONNA IS A TRAILBLAZER...just in a strange way.

JANET JACKSON is my choice!

Drowned World was a good concert, and I'm not disputing that, but I, along with the rest of America (critics and fans alike) say that the All For You Tour is not only much better set-wise, but with the choreography, staging, costumes, AND scope of the artist's hits.

I would like you to post one article that says this.

PS: Is this the same Ally that once said, “Janet sucks ass…” But you like Janet’s concert better? I thought sucking ass was bad.

Sean made this statement: "Drowned World was a good concert, and I'm not disputing that, but I, along with the rest of America (critics and fans alike) say that the All For You Tour is not only much better set-wise, but with the choreography, staging, costumes, AND scope of the artist's hits."

I think what Ally is trying to say is she wants anyone who said that Janet's concert is better than Madonna's DW to come up with an article from any media that said so.

I believe she still thinks Madonna's DW is a whole lot better. Right, Ally?

Jefri

www.geocities.com/epbjeep1/new-match.html

Feel free to send me comments, too! -Jeeper

P.S. R.I.P. to Miss Aaliyah. She had stated many of times how she looked up and admire Janet whole style in the music and personally and that she would love to work with Janet. And Janet said that some of the new today artist she really enjoy is Aaliyah and that she would like to work with her. But saddly Aaliyah's life ended. At least she and Janet had a chance to speak and get to know each other more personally and started to become friends. And that was so nice of Janet to do that tribute to her on the VMAs.........Once again, R.I.P. Aaliyah!

Hard decisions to make...

I invite everyone out here and there to check out my Celebrity Deathmatch page. Sign my guestbook or email me and tell me your suggestions or comments. My webpage is at www.geocities.com/epbjeep1/jeeper2.html

Sincerely but undecided, The Jeeper

Anyone wanna add anything?

I'm not a big listener of Janet's either, mind you. But I think her music is real.

Her songs are also more towards putting music to a dance step rather than a dance step to a music. It's like she planned the dance and then write the music that matches it - which is probably why even after 15 years in the business, her sound and moves barely change.

Her last three concerts do not offer anything interesting. She sings, dances and fake it with the audience.

Madonna is different. She's totally more into bringing out something new. Drowned World Tour is really something new. Madonna's music also changes a lot during her career. You don't get songs that sounded like Like a Virgin or Material Girl or Papa Don't Preach or Like a Prayer in every new album she releases. They are different.

Meanwhile, if you were to listen to all of Janet's albums, you can make comparisons of songs from the latest albums to the previous ones, even as "previous" as Control, and you can always find similarities between them.

Try doing the same to Madonna's albums. Nothing matches because everything sounds different.

I have no problem with Janet, other than her singing voice and the bad plastic surgery and her personality. Okay, lemme rephrase, I have a huge problem with Janet but no problem at all with her producers. Got that, Seanny?

Ladies and gentlemen, Sean has cracked the case. My fiance was freaked out by that extremely freaky picture because he wants to look like Janet Jackson. Sean, you are an extremely weird person. But what do you think of Melissa Etheridge?

i have not heard the album but i hate the son "all for you." she's gotten so much surgery too - everyone knows her ass used to be 4 times larger than it is now, in fact they did a special feature in rolling stone like two years ago about why black women artists have such a garder time in the industry since their behinds are too big. anyway, not like i really adhere to these critics every time or anything, but i thought christagu's review of all for you in the village voice was dead-on and pretty funny:

JANET JACKSON All for You (Virgin) Fifth time through or so, having vaguely enjoyed the title tune's thirdhand chic and patted my figurative foot to two other early songs and conceived something a little more fattening when she invited/implored me (me—we hardly know each other, but hey) to "taste" her, I got to the Carly Simon duet again, and finally it hit me. This wasn't just weird, it was revolting. Once Janet was a repressed young thing discovering her sexuality, and that was fun for everybody; now she's a rich 35-year-old demanding sex, and even if her body wisdom is manifestly subtler than Carly's, the thrill is gone. And then there's the fabled production team that has achieved precisely nothing on its own since she turned into something slinkier and more carnivorous than a cash cow—a cash mink, say. B MINUS

he's regret it *If* he mails ME.. i'll Go Deep into psychosis and take Control of the situation and get so Nasty on his Escapade- lurving ass that he won;t be Alright with all his Rope Burns and He'll Get Lonely as he cries like a Throb-bing Black Cat being skinned alive screaming "You!", he'll want to Runaway

that may very well have been the weakest thing ever written on ilm, and yes i am quite fucking proud of it, as it should be forgiven given how hungry i am right now, and what can i say, that's just the way (my) love goes.

the interludes, man. they really brought janet down...

madonna's so good, she never *needed* fucking interludes

All For You was added to country music format? Latin? Christian?! Dear lord, that is something, I think I might have to rethink my position on Janet.

Sean, do you actually read the things you write?

Sean, I'm actually Geri Halliwell, Ally is my cover.

And yes, it was no coincidence Ally and I announced our engagements around the same time. Dan and Ramon are just covers for the straight world.

I mean, I do really like the "Son Of A Gun" video and all (more videos should feature people eating and vomitting CGI bugs), but Sean's ramblings make me feel uneasy.

I will cry myself to sleep tonight with the realization that I am so horribly, horribly wrong.

ISTR a song from Dick Tracy being nominated for an academy award - didn't Mads cowrite it with Sondheim?

I mean, I guess you wouldn't care, cos you've already made yourself look like a barely literate, barely sane, obsessive Traino-esque dickhead all throughout this thread, but it gave me a good giggle anyhow.

God, I believe he is Traino, Nicole. This is fun, he's easily wound up. What's your opinion on the Spice Whores, Sean?

BTW - Madonna, for being slightly less grotesque.

should I find a stone to carve this into or will my chest do?

and btw, sean: you really can't cite the Washington Post as a reference to prove that janet has been getting more critical acclaim than madonna, since harrington or whatever his name is, the pop music critic, has really been biased against madonna for the entire last decade, and he always pans everything she does. i read his all-for- you tour review in the summer and he seemed to center his entire theme around how much better it is than madonna's concert, without reviewing it on its own terms. he's as credible as E!, basically, which your little site also quoted

for the _real_proof that all for you was not critically acclaimed (why do i feel like i'm in courtroom now) i deeply urge all of you to just go to metacritic.com, and in the music reviews just look at how its total score indicates it got mediocre, mixed reviews. the site tallies up the critical opinions of all different sources, both online and off. and don't forget to see how Music got a 76 sean, easily beating out the sad all for who (not that i like music myself, but it doesn't matter what i like, i'm sadder than all AND nicole)

this inability to edit your posts once you've made them here is almost growing into an annoyance, or maybe i'm just too pampered from other we forums

sad and pampered, that's me. there's no hope for me now. guess i'll go see re-runs of "good times" now, and try to give my life some meaning.

that child star janet sure had a nice hot ass - for a black woman. oh, and for an 8 year old too

Whereas Janet vs. Madonna ... my gut says Janet, but the question's about as difficult for me as the Seamonsters vs. Bandwagonesque one (n.b. Seamonsters).

I think this is the greatest thing I've ever read. I want to use this line in everyday speech.

JANET 4-EVAH!

;-) I prefer my heavy breathing in situ.

Yet in all the dire seriousness that the subject of Madonna implores you to assume, Ned, do you think you could at least concede that "Bad Girl" alone is light years ahead in terms of songwriting quality compared to everything she wrote in the 80s, ("Oh Father" notwithstanding) ? If not light years, at least a few leagues... take a deep, heavy breath, however you do it best with zest, and then answer

Anyhow, Madge's GHV2 is excellent. Love the collection. I bought a few. Some of my Madonna's adoring friends' birthdays are just around the corner. I think they'll love GHV2.

You guys bought it, yet?

Speak for yourself, I've got the world's best ass! Anyhow, just to clear up, no one says Janet copies Madonna "just because" of The Velvet Rope UnSexy Sex Album, it's because she has a bad tendency to do similar trends as Madonna about a year later (I'm sure good ol' V will point out that she's taken to wearing cowboy threads in concert now - sigh). Whether it's intentional or just an accidental sharing of trends, it doesn't matter cos people see it and think, "Oh, there she goes, doing Madonna again". *shrug*

BUT IF WE JUST DROPPED THE SUBJECT WHAT WOULD WE TALK ABOUT? WHO WILL PROTECT US?

I've had a lot of coffee today.

Mark is a genius for starting this thread.

Gee, not only E! but the critical authority that is Bob Goen Entertainment Tonight ALSO mentioned Janet's inevitable superiority? You're starting to convert me now Sean, stop please..!! STOP stop this is doing something to my mind..stop it, stop!! Damn!!!!!!!!!! Even ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT?!!!! HOLY FUCKING SHIT IN FUCKING HELL!? BOB GOEN????? you mean like, ****THE**** BOB GOEN?! holy FUCKING FUCK ME@!!$#@!!!! I mean like fuck , man, HOLY FUCKING JESUS FUCK I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS DAMN EVEN BOB gOEN tHE BOB FUCKIN' GOEN OF FUCKING ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT - ENTERTAINMENT 2NITE!!!JESUS!@!! MY COOCHIE'S GONNA FALL OUT RHYTHM NATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, by the way, I just wanted to point out that Janet's taken to wearing cowboy threads in concert now. Sigh.

And after only 29 weeks, All For You is already at No. 98 on the Billboard Album Charts. This, despite the fact that, it debut at No. 1 with over 600,000 copies sold.

True, she a lot of new artistes claim she inspired them, but I find that those new acts are real suck-ups. Just watch MTV Icon. They're so fake. I bet if MTV Icon pays tribute to say, some country singers, they might also say the same shit! I mean, how does she inspired those rap artiste. She can't rap for nuts!

Madonna never said that she's an inspiration. She believes in being original. And as she once quoted, "It takes a real man to fill my shoes." So true, it's so true!

thanks for clearing that up!! by the way, are you trying to be funny? everyone know that more people liked and wanted to look like madonna since hello?!, every girl dressed like her in the 80s and copied her with the whole wannabe look. no one tried to look like janet since no one could replicate her beautiful black classy strong very FAT, large- lug-of-LARD ass...how can anyone dress like that without stuffing the backseat of their pants? and doing *that* is SO 18th century, sorry (something madonna herself revived on stage)

"all for you" was just that - mass pandering to the lowest common r&b denominator i.e. shit. it doesn't matter what else you say, she's related to latoya so she's no comparison to M, case closed, go get nasty miss thang and go home

Ray of LIght won Best Pop Album at the Grammys. Music was nominated for it this year but didn't win. Well at least, she's been nominated three times in this category (the first being Bedtime Stories).

None of Janet's album (except for Control - but that was 16 years ago), has been nominated for a Best Pop or even Best R&B album.

So Alfonse, please do some reading before you start lashing out. You said Vic makes himself look stupid, but you just went beyond that.

hey i thought you said i was cool!

And Alfonse, ALL is ALL. “the majority of all" is ALMOST. And Ray of Light was named one of the top ten albums by VH1, Billboard and even Rolling Stone magazines to name a few. You really oughta do more reading, Fonzee.

Janet was so-called crowned MTV Icon only because when MTV decided to start the who MTV Icon thing, she was the only “superstar” to coincidentally release an album right about that time. If Madonna were to release Music back then, she would definitely be MTV’s Choice as an ICON.

Besides, knowing that Janet can’t sell that much record as she used to, her record company, Virgin might also have negotiated with MTV to do this show just to promote Janet’s All For You. It’s just a marketing strategy. But who would have thought, her’s would be really lame.

In 80 years time, people will still talk about Janet and Madonna.

They will know Madonna for her being a Diva, a slut, a businesswoman, a songwriter, a bad actress, a singer, a dancer, a mother, a man- eater, a bitch and above all – AN ARTISTE.

In 80 years time, people will know Janet only as being Michael’s little sister.

Let’s face it: Female Sexual power would not have happened if it wasn’t for Madonna. She started the revolution from the first day she came on to the music scene. Janet started hers ten years after Madonna. And trust me, Janet is whore! She’s not classy, she’s just a copycat.

Nasty ass controversy or not, Janet will need to make a whole lot more albums before her total album sales can match up to that of Madonna’s.

In the music business, criticism builds or destroy your career. But any criticism that any artiste’s gets, means people are paying attention to them. True, Madonna got and is still getting. That’s what makes her interesting. Janet doesn’t cos she’s boring!

Janet’s a pop as well as an R&B/ soul singer just because she’s black. That’s all! Besides, she’s got no soul.

And Alfonse, I’m not copying. I’m only replying to your to what you wrote.

Ciao, Moron!

But I'm basically through with this shit, I don't get paid to argue over a message board with some dumb asses and people with no life all on Madonna's jock. I'm not all on Janet's jock, I just come correct you guys on that stupid shit you all be saying.

Of any spelling or grammer errors or mistakes when I was typing is because I as tyoing so fast because I have to go!!!!

Then just go, Alfonse. Don't come back now, ya hear!

Like I've stated before, I didn't come here to talk bad about Madonna, it's that Janet is better.

~Phillip~

I think that besides VMA and the Grammies, she didn't quite bother with the other music awards.

Did you guys see the look on Janet's face when she went up to receive the Merit Award at 2001 AMAs. Fake, fake, fake, fake, fake. That's all I can describe her.

Phillip

Like I said to Alfonse before, "Then just go,Phil." This thread is meant for a debate. No one said anybody will be paid. No one ask anybody to come in this thread either. If anybody wants to be in, let them. They can afford the time.

To you, this may not be a life (I agree with that), but there are others who enjoy doing this. If you have so much other life to live, then why waste your time here? Go.

Jefri

And it's a porven fact that Janet is the Queen of Pop. But accroding to this website she's not only the Queen of Pop, but the Queen of all Music and Media: Pop, Rock, and Soul. Check the website out: www.envy.nu/queenjanet/index2.html

PEOPLE NEED TO STOP PITTING FEMALES AGAINST EACHOTHER..I AM A JANET FAN and I WILL SAY THAT MADONNA IS THE QUEEN OF POP, she deserves the TITLE, she has released so many albums and has sold so many. MUCH MORE THAN JANET. IS MADONNA BETTER THAN JANET, um NO. WHO IS TO SAY WHICH FEMALE IS BETTER, I PERSONALLY THINK alot of OTHER FEMALES could KICK both of their azzes in the CREATIVITY category. IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO IS IN "YOUR" cd PLAYER. JANET IS IN MINE. **DUST**

It's a shame when people waste so much of their time and energy arguing over which superstar is better than the other. HELLO PEOPLE!!! It's a huge world out there and no one, i mean no one can please everyone. Janet has mentioned this before. She is not trying to please everybody. And though Madonna has made it known that she's wants to conquer the world... it just ain't happening. The only world that she rules is her own. I love Janet and like Madonna a lot. I think they are both wonderful artisit. And I appreciate it that. I can definitely say that I relate more to Janet because I am black and she raises issues that concerns not only my own race but us all as human beings! Not to mention, she's cute. I like Madonna because she adds certain elements to some of her songs that I can appreciate. I'm in to Electornica just as well as Pop, R&B, Rock, and New Age. I'm just eclected like that. My point is: "Get over yourselves because come the end of the day, neither one of us areJanet or Madonna and we certainly aren't paid and live the life that they live."

Best wishes to all of you,

Marcus

But you posted anyway, so we all win. Er...

On to Madonna, she's cool and erythin, but its tru, she really cant sing and she really cant dance, even tho I wouldnt have minded to go see her concert, because she's mad creative. I respect her for the simple reason that she says wha the fuck she says and dont give a shit.

Im on my way out, but I must leave you with a few departin words, BURN DA BULLDYKE BITCH das indefinately onna "hiatus" Shawnette "BuckHe" heard.

Of course, nobody can stop talking about Janet’s Velvet Rope Tour – being how boring it was and how similar it is to her other concerts. YAWNNNN!!!!!!!!! And I think Janet did have a rib removed.

Madonna doesn’t need a facelift. In fact, she doesn’t need any plastic surgery, cause SHE’S THE ORIGINAL. You see, that’s why JANET’S SO FAKE. She had something lifted, tucked and removed. Put in some bleach, and she’s her brother. Janet in daylight looked like a shadow – always following in people’s footsteps. Besides, she’s so fake, I’d rather look at Barbie. Janet doesn’t chase after man? Didn’t she just gotten a divorce? That whore must be twitching for a fuck from another man. Madonna doesn’t run after men. Men run after her for spotlight. They wanna share her limelight.

Men doesn’t run after Janet because they fear that she is actually Michael Jackson. You see, Selena sweetie, don’t go shooting your shit before you know you’re craft.

Which Billboard magazine did you read that mentioned Janet having the most Top Ten Singles? Could it be the Soul Food Billboard? Gimme and all of us in this thread a break. Go read. Visit the Billboard website and do your research. Obviously, you must be another case of school-drop outs.

Madonna has more than 40 Top 40 hits, tying her with Aretha Franklin. But in terms of Top Ten hits, no other Female Singers come close to Madonna’s achievements, not even the Queen of Soul herself.

True that Janet achieve so much at the age of 35, but she managed to do so thanks to her family name, and the fact that she did get the attention for being Michael’s little sister. Sure, she has dropped her surname now. Why not before? The fact is, she needs that surname to achieve where she is today. If it wasn’t for that surname, she’ll be making flop albums after flop albums.

Madonna worked hard and strived. She didn’t need the boys in her family to reach the top.

There is nothing wrong with Janet actually, she is just not as art-driven as Madonna. But thats O-K.

If her status as a cultural phenomenon isn't enough, then there's what it's all about- the music. The Immaculate Collection is regarded as a classic- not just among regular, ol' greatest hits albums, but albums period. It is a soundtrack of an era, and defining of the term "pop classics." Albums like Like a Prayer, Ray of Light and Music received gflowing critical notices, and the others had their fair share of positive notices (even ones perceived as disappointments, like Ereotica, got some very good reviews, as well as some mixed ones). Then there's the videos- no one understood or has worked the medium as well as Madonna has- she after all was the recipient of MTV's Artist of the Decade award for the 1980s (there was no 1990s recipient). And, of ciurse, there's the tours- Blond Ambition set a standard for concerts thereafter (with the tour documentary highly regarded as well)- and with Drowned World 2001, she showed once again why she is untouchable as a live performer.

Janet is a fine artist/performer in her own right- but no Madonna. She has seemed to be 1-2 steps behind Madonna as far as doing some things, but that's OK. Who better to be influenced by than Madonna? Whenever there is talk of the greatest this or that, Madonna is always featured and places favorably, moreso than any other act. Just recently, Life magazine had her at #6 on the list of the top 100 artists of the rock era, ranked by impact and influence on the music scene (following Elvis, Beatles, Bob Dylan, James Brown and the Rolling Stones). She always places well on such lists.

And on a global scale, Madonna is incomparable to others, as well, nearly 20 years after her debut Her last 2 studio albums- Ray of Light and Music- are certified for 7 million and 5 million units in Europe (worldwide totals roughly are 15-16 million and 11-12 million, respectively).

There. Now isn't it sad that some who have posted here feel the need to rant on immaturely, using degrading terminology to try (unsuccessfully) to diss Madonna? The truth eventually will set those free. :)

MADONNA RULZ 4 LIFE

Barbra Streisand beats Madonna in terms of album sales in the US only because Streisand has been around an extra 20 years more than Madonna, but Madge is hot on her trail.

Janet's album sales in the US, is still far-fetch from Madonna's total sales. All For YOu sold 6 million copies worldwide. Music sold 12 million copies worldwide. Velvet Rope sold 8 million and Ray of LIght sold 15 million.

Janet is not only far-fetch from Madge, she's also far-fetched from Whitney and Mariah and those two divas are still behind Madonna.

So who's better now?

1983-MADONNA- 6 MILLION SALES- HITS- HOLIDAY, LUCKY STAR AND BORDERLINE 1984- LIKE A VIRGIN- 20 MILLION SALES- HITS- LIKE A VIRGIN, MATERIAL GIRL, ANGEL, AND DRESS YOU UP 1986- TRUE BLUE- 20 MILLION SALES- HITS- LIVE TO TELL, PAPA DON'T PREACH, TRUE BLUE, LA ISLA BONITA, AND OPEN YOUR HEART 1987- YOU CAN DANCE (REMIX ALBUM)- SALES-5 MILLION 1989- LIKE A PRAYER- 13 MILLION- HITS- LIKE A PRAYER, EXPRESS YOURSELF,CHERISH, AND KEEP IT TOGETHER 1990- I'M BREAATHLESS- 5 MILLION SALES- HITS VOGUE AND HANKY PANKY 1990-THE IMMACULATE COLLECTION- 20 MILLION SALES- HITS 1983-1990 INC. JUSTIFY MY LOVE AND RESCUE ME 1992- EROTICA 6 MILLION SALES- HITS- EROTICA, DEEPER & DEEPER, AND RAIN 1994- BEDTIME STORIES- 6 MILLION SALES- HITS- SECRET, TAKE A BOW AND HUMAN NATURE 1995- SOMETHING TO REMEMBER- SALES 8 MILLION- HITS YOU'LL SEE 1998- RAY OF LIGHT- 14 MILLION SALES- HITS- FROZEN, RAY OF LIGHT, AND THE POWER OF GOOD BYE 2000- MUSIC 10 MILLION SALES- HITS MUSIC, DON'T TELL ME, AND WHAT IT FEELS LIKE FOR A GIRL 2001- GHV2 5 MILLION (AND STILL SELLING)HITS 1992-2001

AND TOGETHER THAT MAKES ABOUT 175 MILLION RECORDS SOLD WORLDWIDE!!

MADONNA IS THE BEST! HOW MUCH HAS JANET SOLD 2 AND A HALF? MADONNA IS THE QUEEN FACE IT, SHE RULES THE MUSIC BUSINESS FOR THE DIVAS!!

And by the way...... i think both janet and madonnas music are good, but madonna is far more beautiful than jannet and shes in her 40s ! Modonna is a legend and will always be ! she rocks and doesent stop ! Shes a better singer that jannet and Madonnas just ..... Brill!

Gemz xxxxxx

IT'S ALSO EVENT IN OTHER TYPES OF MUSIC, WITH ALL RESPECT EMINEM SELLS 5X AS MUCH AS JAY Z NAS PAC AND BIG. SAME THING WITH VANILLA ICE AND BEASTIE BOYS.

ELVIS PRESLEY TOOK BLACK MUSIC TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL AND RENAMED IT, AND MADE PEOPLE BELIEVE ROCK AND ROLL WAS ORIGINAL. CURTIS MAYFIELD, JAMES BROWN, LITTLE RICHARD. BUT WHO DO WE REMEMBER ELVIS AND BEATLES.

IN THE END OF COURSE MADONNA COMES OUT ON TOP IN RESPECT SHE WORKED HER ASS OFF TO GET THERE, BUT OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOLD JUST AS MUCH AS HER, WHITNEY, JANET AND MARIAH DON'T GET AS MUCH ATTENTION AS MADONNA.

SAME THING WITH MONICA AND BRANDY, WHO GET'S THE ATTENTION BRITNEY SPEARS.

SO THIS TELLS AMERICA IF YOUR WHITE YOU WILL ACHIEVE MORE AND BE NOTED AND REMEMBERED FOR MORE.

PEOPLE LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON, RUNDMC AND PRINCE HAVE BROKEN BARRIERS. MUSICAL

MADONNA AND JANET JACKSON ARE BOTH BLESSED TO BE RICH AND FAMOUS AND BEAUTIFUL.

I won't state here why Madonna is better but why I like her cuz I belive that they are tooo different to be compared... and when I say different I mean their voice and everything more...

I like Madonna because she is different... I like her because she always change... she is never the same... in every record you can expect something different... and creative... plus Madonna sing things that can go deep into my mind and make me thing... she writes about sexuality, races, sex, happiness, hate, depression and subjects that I can relate to it... Plus her tours are groud breaking... there is always something new... some thing that you can't expected... its like Since Blond Ambition, The Girlie Show, and The Droened World Tour there is always something different! Its never the same... I can't say that about Janet (and then again... Its my opinion)... when I hear Jenet It reminds me the 80's while if I hear Madonna is something new...

In her carrer she had a process of eveolution... in every album u can see that she improve and grown... Its all a process...

and Just to finish this message... I can ask anyone in my country (Brazil) if they know Madonna... and everybody (or almost everybody) will say YES... I can't say the same thing about Janet... she isn't famous in the whole world... Madonna is...

sorry about the typo's...

Now Janet is such a better performer. She wrote songs about SOMETHING, shes always doing something positive. Her songs actually last the test of time and she isnt ashamed of them like Madonna who wont perform her old songs. Janet doesnt speak with a fake accent either, she proud to be American. Janet overall just continues to blow me and everyone else away. She just gets better, all she has to do is smile and you are hooked. Shes the Queen, she has more depth, talent than Madonna can fake or try to act like she has. Madonna is over. Everyone can see that esp since the hype machine has left her in the cold to fend for herself as an *gasp* Actress. LOL!

I don't think it's the Marketing thing. Maybe, a little. But honestly, even in Asia, if you say to majority, the name Janet Jackson, the first thing that comes to mind is Michael Jackson - for the surname. ANd then the next response will be "Michael Jackson's sister, right?".

Madonna is a household name in Asia. Say her name, even those who have not heard her music (and that's very little in number), will know who she is.

Probably songs like Like a Virgin, Material Girl, Crazy for You, is everlasting and considered evergreen. Janet's songs are evergreen but they are not as everlasting as any Madonna's earlier songs.

I do like Madonna as well. Her voice isn't that great but neither is Janets compared to Celine Dion (she's brilliant) and Tina Turner (she's brilliant too!)for example. Madonna's stuff mainly sounds the same, yet they're all good. A lot of people only like her older stuff. I personally think that Ray of Light is one of her better albums, but after that, she is just trying to be more modern. She won't ever have the energy, style and looks of Janet. Janet is only 36, and has a performing career spanning 30 years, and yet if you look at her; 1- She doesn't look half her age, and 2- From just her music and her latest album, you'd think she was a completely new artist because she is so fresh and funky and different everytime. Madonna can not act, bless her!!!!!!

To sum up, not many people can say that they have done as much as Janet, Miss Jackson if you're nasty and still be getting better and better and more successful each time. She is one clever cookie, and she doesn't get merely half the respect she deserves. And she's only 36! Look at her in the video of Feel it Boy with Beenie Man. She does not look her age. Compare it with the video, Got 'til it's gone... She's the best man!!! Mads... you're good... OK, very good and I respect you. Janet, you're bloody good. Janet plays the business very well. She's never right at the top, but she's always there. Some people go from top, to bottom, to gone for good. Janet never gives you too much that you get fed up. That happens a lot with new artists. They over do them. They give you so much of them all at once that you get fed up of them. Janet never does that. She's in CONTROL Baby! She keeps you guessing. Janet's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get! She is the most amazing artist of the whole wide world in my eyes and I love her... That's right Janet, I love you! Kiss kiss kiss! Will you marry me? Please? Just for a little while? OK, it was worth a try. Bizzly bizzle eh?! Love Rishoo!

Go to sleep now, this case is closed!

Janet is her own person. She doesn't try to be like Diana Ross or anything. People say she is using sex now. Her albums Control and Ryhthem Nation were both number 1 albums, followed by a best selling tour.... And this was when she was literally covered up completely. So saying she used sex is a complete load of bollocks.

Let's jump into the present... Oh look! Janet has another record breaking song "All For You!" That's nice... Oh look... "Madonna receives worst ratings of her entire career for her film 'Swept Away,' directed by the man she only married to try boost her career again, Guy Ritchie." I'm afraid I've actually lost count of the embarrassing remarks made by the critics about Madonna's acting ability. Never mind eh?!

Janet is absolutely gorgeous... Any boy who denies it is a lier. Any girl who denies it is just jealous...!! Hee hee!

Janet Jackson is just Janet Jackson. Madonna is every Tom, Dick and Harry that she wants to be. She should just be herself. There's no need to try and be cool... Especially at her age. We want to see the real Madonna. Unless this is the real Madonna and she really thinks that she needs to be something she's not to fit in... Who knows? I don't think she does.

Janet has always had it harder when it comes to being successful for the simple fact that she will always be compared to the biggest selling artist of all time... Her brother Michael. And the fact that she is still going, and I think will out run Michael says it all. JANET BABY... YOU ARE MORE THAN A QUEEN, YOU'RE A GODDESS!!!
Sizzle you lats!
Rishoo (Rich)

http://www.route53.com/kiss_britney_madonnaLG.jpg

http://members.cox.net/jxgal2/2004/superbowl020104c.jpg

(Yes I know that's not the actual 'exposure' shot but dammit I think this is the photo that should become famous.)

jesus christ...this is the first time that i've sat down and read this thing top to bottom...i think i can't have children now.

Oh my god, this thread, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE????

That's the best line in the whole thread.

Janet may have spoken of "Control", but Madonna is the one who has it, artistically, I mean. While Madonna has worked with several different producers, often creating brilliant albums in very different styles, Janet has stuck to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis (apart from her first couple of albums, that are now forgotten). And while those have done an excellent job for here everytime around, still leaves you in doubt how much of an input Janet really had.

But, hard to choose. Both are great, and way ahead of most other dance oriented female singers out there musically.

Up until just now, Madonna had the clear advantage in the controversies department. But I can't recall if Madonna ever had the FCC open an investigation on her ass, so Janet clearly leaps back into the fray on this account. The two iconographic moments... I dunno. I'm almost going to have to go with Janet on this one, because the girl did it at the Super Bowl, bitches! The Super Bowl! Add to that the odd fact that there's still the whole PR-stunt-not-a-PR-stunt veneer (not with most folks, mind you, but unlike with the Mad-Brit kiss, some will likely go to their graves thinking this was an accident), and I'ma have to give my vote to Janet.

You've never read the sleevenotes, have you?

Anyways, I own more Janet than Madonna but I've always believed Madge to be top dog Pop Queen. However, even though she'd technically faded more, right now Janet is cooler than Madonna could hope to be. Madonna rapes her own back catalogues and has put out two mondo subpar records since the millenium began. Janet has freaky tits and gets groped by passing vagrants.
It just ain't a competition.

Are you crazy??? "What It Feels Like For A Girl" and "American Life" and "Die Another Day"!!!!!

...should now be "the brass mammary broad."

Plus "Like a Prayer" is clearly sooo much better than any of Janet's albums.

IF MADONNA IS SOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN JANET JACKSON, WHY IS JANET JACKSON THE HIGHEST PAID RECORDING ARTIST OF ALL TIME?

JANET HAS A 90MILL CONTRACT, MADONNA DOESN'T.

END OF DISCUSSION

THE VELVET ROPE WAS THE NEXT ALBUM RELEASED IN 1997
JANET JACKSON SPENT MOST OF 1996 IN SECLUSION BUT BY THE TIME OF 1997 IN THE SUMMER SHE HAD COMPLETED WORK ON AN ALBUM FULL OF SADNESS, PAIN DEPRESSION AND YET ALSO ENCOURAGEMENT AND SURVIVAL.
THE FIRST SINGLE WAS "GOT TILL' IT'S GONE" FEATURING RAPPER AND FRIEND Q-TIP AND A SAMPLE OF JONI MITCHELL'S 1971 CLASSIC "BIG YELLOW TAXI"
ALL TOGETHER 5 SINGLES WERE RELEASED THE AIDS-DEIDCATED DANCE ANTHEM "TOGETHER AGAIN"(#3 POP,#1 R&B) AND THE SEXY AND BLUESY "I GET LONELY"
(#3 POP,#1 R&B). BUT FANS FAVOURITE WAS CLEARLY THE PARTY, FUNKY AND LYRICALLY FRANK "GO DEEP" BECAME RADIO FAVOURITES AND THE BEAUTIFUL LOVE BALLAD "EVERY TIME"
JANETS VOICE COULD BE HEARD ON OTHER SONGS THAT WERE DUETS, 1 WITH REGGAE RAPPER SHAGGY WITH THE SINGLE LUV ME LUV ME FROM THE MOVIE "HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK" THE SONG UNFORTUNATELY ONLY MADE IT AS FAR AS #76 ON THE HOT 100 ENDING JACKSONS HISTORY MAKING STREAK OF 19 CONSECUTIVE TOP 10 SINGLES IN THE BILLBOARDS TOP 100.
RAPPER BUSTA RYHMES ASKED JACKSON TO SING ON HIS SONG "WHAT'S IT GONNA BE?" FROM THE RAPPERS 1998 ALBUM E.L.E(EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT)
WITH THE HELP FROM A SEXY,SLEAK, STEAMY VIDEO THE SONG BECAME AN INSTANT SMASH REACHING #3 ON POP CHARTS AND #1 ON R&B AND RAP.
IT WAS THE FIRST SONG OF HERS TO BE ON THE RAP CHARTS.
IT LATER BECAME NOMINATED FOR A GRAMMY FOR BEST RAP PERFORMANCE BY A DUO OR GROUP.
THIS NOMINATION MADE JANET JACKSON THE FIRST AND ONLY ARIST TO BE NOMINATED AT THE GRAMMYS IN ALL THESE CATERGORIES(POP,R&B,DANCE,ROCK AND RAP):)
AND SHE WOULD BE THE ONLY ARTIST TO HAVE A CHARTED SINGLE ON THOSE CHARTS INCLUDING THE ADULT CONTEMPORARY CHARTS WHERE SHE HAS REACHED #1 WITH THE SINGLE "COME BACK TO ME" FROM THE 90'S

JACKSON NEXT RECORDED A DUET A HIT WITH R&B GROUP BLACKSTREET WHO APPEARED IN THE REMIX TO JANETS "I GET LONELY" WITH THE TRACK GRILFRIEND/BOYFRIEND. THE SONG PEAKED ON THE POP CHARTS AT #47 AND #17 OF THE R&B CHARTS.

JANET JACKSON CONTINUED TO PORTRAY HER VERSATILITY BY SINGING WITH THE LEGEND HIMSLEF SIR ELTON JOHN FOR HIS AIDA SOUNDTRACK. THE SONG TILTED "I KNOW THE TRUTH" WAS A TOUCHING AN GRIPPING BALLAD SOMETHIN THAT MADONNA COULD NEVER DO IS PRODUCE BALLADS.

JACKSON WOULD ALSO WRITE, PRODUCE AND RECORD A SONG FOR A PEPSI PROMOTIONAL CAMPAIGN IN EUROPE.

2000 CAME AND JANET WAS NOW 34 AND SHE WAS ASKED TO STAR WITH COMIC GIANT EDDIE MURPHY IN HIS HILARIOUS SEQUEL TO HIS HUGELY SUCCESSFUL NUTTY PROFESSOR. SO JANET KINDLY PUT HER NEXT STUDIO PROJECT ON HOLD FOR THIS BIG BUDGET HOLLYWOOD MOVIE. SHE WOULD BE PLAYING PROFESSOR DENISE DAINES WHO FALLS IN LOVE WITH EDDIES CHARACTER AND MAIN CHARACTER OF THE FILM "THE NUTTY PROFESSOR II THE KLUMPS"
THE FILM WAS AN EXTREME BANKABLE SUCCESS REACHING #1 IN THE BOX OFFICE MAKING IT JANETS SECOND BOX OFFICE SMASH MOVIE.
THE THEME SINGLE FOR THE MOVIE "DOESNT'T REALLY MATTER" BECAME HER FIRST #1 OF THE NEW MILLENIUM MAKING HER THE FIRST ARTIST TO HAVE A #1 SINLGE IN THE 80'S 90'S AND 00'S.

ALL FOR YOU (2001) WAS THE NEXT STUIO CLASSIC AND HER FOURTH ALBUM WITH PRODUCERS JIMMY JAM AND TERRY LEWIS.
THE ALBUM WAS MUCH MORE UPBEAT THAN THE VELVET ROPE AND SOLD OVER 600 000 IN ITS FIRST WEEK OF RELEASE.
THE TITLE TRACK BECAME JANETS SECOND BIGGEST HIT TO DATE STAYIN AT #1 FOR 7 WEEKS.
THE SECOND SINGLE "SOMEONE TO CALL MY LOVER" WAS COMFORTABLE SITTING IN THE TOP 5 OF THE POP CHARTS.
A SELL OUT TOUR FOLLOWED
JACKSON RETURED TO THE STUDIO TO FEATURE IN JUSTIN TIMBERLAKES "AND SHE SAID" AND "TAKE ME NOW" AND BEENIE MANS "FELL IT BOY".
AND FINALLY DAMITA JO (2004)> 3 SINGLES WERE RELEASED FOR THIS 8TH STUDIO ALBUM THE FIRST BEING "JUST A LITTLE WHILE"
THEN "I WANT YOU" AND "ALL NITE(DON'T STOP)".
JACKSON RECEIVED AN AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS NOMINATION FOR FAVOURITE R&B/SOUL ARTIST,2 GRAMMY AWARD NOMINATIONS FOR DAMITA JO> 1 FOR CONTEMPORARY R&B ALBUM OF THE YEAR AND ANOTHER FOR HER SINGLE "I WANT YOU" FOR BEST FEMALE R&B VOCAL PERFORMANCE CATEGORY.

JACKSON ALSO RECEIVED NOMINATIONS AS BEST FEMALE R&B SINGER AT THE SOURCE MUSIC AWARDS, NAACP IMAGE AWARDS AND BET AWARDS.
ALTHOUGH SHE DIDN'T GO ON TOUR SHE PERFORMED 2 SONGS ON GOOD MORNING AMERICA AN ADDITIONAL 2 SONGS ON HER APPEARANCE ON SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE AND DANCED AND SANG ON THE JAY LENNO SHOW AND ALSO AT THE BET AWARDS.
EVENTUALLY THE ALBUM WENT TO PLATINUM STATUS IN THE US.
TOTAL SALES OF THE ALBUM WORLDWIDE WERE 3 MILLION.

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT MADONNA IS A DICKHEAD AND JANET JACKSON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE QUEEN OF POP.

Glad you cleared that up for us, Kimi.

THANK YOU ASH FOR THE OFFER ON PRESIDENT I COULD SEE THAT HAPPENING ONE DAY IN THE FUTURE TOO BAD I LIVE IN AUSTRALIA OH YEAH AND BY THE WAY NED RAGGET , ME KIMI I AM A BOY NOT A GIRL HAHA ITS A FIJIAN NAME ITS SHORT FOR SOMTHING LONGER BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW U MADE THAT MISTAKE. SO YOU DIDNT "HURT KIMI IN HER HEART"

P.S. jdj IS THE QUEEN OF POP

Oh, I get it - all the engine noise has affected your hearing...

wardrobemalfunctionatsuperbowl.jpg

And the award for "Best Explanation Why Madonna Sucks" goes to...

However, Janet Jackson has been on the decline for some time now, whereas 3 of the last 4 Madonna albums have been among her best.

It may be that Janet Jackson is just going through a down period, like Madonna did in the mid 90s, but I don't believe it until I see her material starting to become better again.

COme on you know how much she loves England...

I really do think this is the crux of the matter: Janet or Madonna.

And don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to finally own the Control and Rhythm Nation albums after all these years, but I've discovered strangely, that it's still all about the videos. Can she possibly get any cuter than she is in "Miss You Much"? How about that key earring, or the slanted chessboard jacket she wears in the video for "Let's Wait Awhile"? Another example is I don't particularly care for "The Pleasure Principle" as a song, but somehow the video makes it all work.

As for Madonna, I'm still not over the 1985 Live Aid performance from her. My god, I wonder if that wasn't her finest hour ever.

Sorry, buddy: Janet is great, but Madonna wrote and sang better songs. And made better videos.

Alfred, you're a great guy and all, but why are you so RONG? I like quite a bit of Madonna's music, but can't think of anything she's done that I truly heart. Janet has probably about ten singles (going back to the Control era, and as recently as "I Want You") that I'd take over anything by Madge, although I may be highly biased (and even racist!) here.

Madonna does generally have better videos, I'll give you that, although "Got Til It's Gone" is probably my favorite by either.

Madonna wins on longevity

um, people rag on janet's voice - yeah, it's thin, but madonna's voice is horrible so it's a draw at best for madonna on that point.

Right.

Janet has probably about ten singles (going back to the Control era, and as recently as "I Want You") that I'd take over anything by Madge

Control is probably a better album than True Blue, or rather, the two songs that weren't singles are better than TB's filler; and Janet probably DOES have 10 songs better than Madonna's. But Madge's last few singles have trumped Janet's easily, so...

i don't know about this question but i will say i think i actively enjoy Control, the album, more than any Madonna album

Yeah I was firmly in the Janet camp until I took a sample of some of Janet's later work (past '93) and man, how did she let herself slide into being just another ass pimping diva? I don't understand. She was so determined to be modest in the 80's even when record company folks told her to sell herself sexually, she wouldn't cave. What went wrong? And I don't like the music, either. Sigh. Why did music fashion have to change? Can't we all go back to the 80's and stay there? Please? And did she have to lose ALL that weight? She was so much cuter with a little meat on her bones.

As for Madonna, I'm still out of the loop with whatever she's done lately, but I can't say I trust it. That picture of her in a cowboy hat on her album cover really turned me off.

Why did music fashion have to change? Can't we all go back to the 80's and stay there? Please?

Haven't visited the '80s fashion thread, eh?

Madonna is the Eric Clapton of radio pop: only an idiot would deny her talent, but that doesn't make me wanna listen to her any more

Janet in a walk

how long do we have to wait for a janet jackson singles poll thread?

I just bought the Janet Jackson DVD compilation of her 80's (and 90's) videos! *does happy dance*

I still think her videos were better than Madonna's. I like all that choreographed dance stuff. Madonna didn't have armies of folks dancing with her like that.

Link plz, Alfred.

I guess if I were to OPO and then TS it would be Control vs. The Immaculate Collection... So Madonna edges ahead for breadth and longevity.

(even though I have a really hard time giving a flying fuck about either post-'89)

Is anyone else here a bit bothered by the fact that Janet's "Come Back To Me" sounds suspiciously like Human League's Human? I mean, they're both great songs, and I know Jam & Lewis had their hands on them, but...were they thinking "okay we had success with this thing before let's give it to Janet this time"?

oh god that part in When I think of You (which thx to this has been in my head ALLLLLL morning, hittin tennis balls hummin) - the part at the end where it swells and she laughs. mmmm

i dunno, i think i'm alone on this one, but for me it'd be Control vs. Bedtime Stories

they've both always been great with melody, but for me Janet's stuff seems to pair melody with some really awesome texture work. though madonna does this at times, her textures aren't always as interesting to me.

btw i don't know janet's work well enuf at all, but she had some awesome mid90's singles, that's fer sher

Is anyone else here a bit bothered by the fact that Janet's "Come Back To Me" sounds suspiciously like Human League's Human?

I pointed this out a few years ago on the "Human" thread. Nothing wrong with re-using great melodies and chords.

um, You Can Be Mine is now officially playing for my whole neighborhood, it just sounded too good to keep on the DL

I love you all dearly, but I'm afraid Janet has taken my heart. Control & Rhythm Nation are enough to put her way above Madonna in my book.

"It's The Pleasure Principle..."

She is the infectious pop sensation that showed her brother up as a fraud.

Even though I still have "Off The Wall" and treasure it, and will likely play it in a moment. At least he didn't have his nose surgery then. Still he wasn't as good as his sister.

I will have to check out this "You Can Be Mine" track. As soon as I can get over "When I Think Of You" by Janet Jackson, I'm at your service.

Control is probably a better album than True Blue, or rather, the two songs that weren't singles are better than TB's filler; and Janet probably DOES have 10 songs better than Madonna's. But Madge's last few singles have trumped Janet's easily, so...

Yeah, I agree that 2000s Madonna probably beats out 2000s Janet. (Although "I Want You" is one of my favorite songs ever. I really can't say enough good things about it.)

Am I the only one here that likes Rhythm Nation 1814 more than Control? I don't see much talk here about the former.

When I was younger and more rockist I preferred it, yeah; but the songs are difficult to remove from their purported socio-political context. A couple of those singles are just duds: "Black Cat" is a bad rewrite of Alexander O'Neal's "Innocent," and "Miss You Much" is Jam/Lewis boilerplate. The piffle ("Alright," "Escapade") sounds freshest.

Still, shame on me. For Madonna's performance of "Into The Groove" at Live Aid just about wipes the floor with anything Janet did. This hurts me to say it.

Of course Rhythm Nation is better than Control. This is elementary, my dear!

"Black Cat" is a terrible embarrassment to the Rhythm Nation album. Please, just forget it. Alex In NYC was right all along about that one.

Madonna has one huge advantage: she's far more productive. There was only one year in the nineties in which she released just ONE single(1991's "Rescue me," which is good-not-great).

A better question: "This Used To Be My Playground" vs "Again," both of which are just slush.

Alfred, aren't you being a bit presumptuous? There are plenty of non-rockist reasons to like it better. And the political stuff is only like three songs anyway.

Yeah "Black Cat" is probably the worst thing there, but it doesn't bug me that much. As far as "Miss You Much" goes, I could listen to boilerplate J&L all day.

xp: "Again" is totally sappy, but not more so than any other number of Janet ballads, and I have a big soft spot for it. No opinion on "Playground"

Or, I should say, I don't have any problem separating the music from the political context, which isn't so egregious that it bothers me anyway.

Alfred, aren't you being a bit presumptuous? There are plenty of non-rockist reasons to like it better. And the political stuff is only like three songs anyway.

The title track, "State of the World," "The Knowledge," "Livin' in a World (They Didn't Make)."

I should say that I prefer RN as a whole to janet, which, more than its predecessor, feels like a victim of CD-era bloat. Madonna has plenty of forgettable album tracks, but her albums aren't as exhausting as Janet's.

Madonna. She usually works with better songwriters/producers.

Oh, right. I forgot about "Livin' in a World".

Listening to the album, "Miss You Much" rocks my socks, boilerplate J&L or no. "Rhythm Nation" is incredible. Stacking as much percussive clatter as you can get into one song and using the vocals and other instruments as additional percussive clatter is a good fucking idea if there ever was such a thing.

I've never cared enough about Madonna to get any of her albums. I do have Immaculate Collection as kind of a token thing, but I never listen to it. I kind of get the impression I like her later stuff more than her 80s stuff, so that probably plays into that.

Zeus: Who has Madonna worked with better than Jam & Lewis?

She doesn't need them -- she's a great producer. Her best collaborators remain Patrick Leonard and Stephen Bray, though she manages to get almsot two albums' worth of decent material from all her hired help.

Send it in a letter, baby, tell you on the phone
I'm not the kind of girl who likes to be alone

Thinking more about it, my preference for Rhythm Nation probably has a lot to do with my age. When I was a kid, the Rhythm Nation panoply was completely omnipresent, especially in my aunt's household where I spent much of my time, whereas I was too young during Control's run and didn't really hear anything from it until my teenage years, at which point I was a big rap nerd and didn't care.

so i guess i should be like really embarrassed to admit that i haven't heard Rhythm Nation yet? I know, it's on my To-Do list

A better question: "This Used To Be My Playground" vs "Again," both of which are just slush.

"This Used To Be My Playground" was Madonna's best song during her otherwise very weak 90-97 down period.

"Zeus: Who has Madonna worked with better than Jam & Lewis?

-- The Reverend, Sunday, 24 June 2007 21:14 (Yesterday)"

I like Madonna's different things with Stuart Price, William Orbit or Patrick Leonard, while the JJ+Jam&Lewis trio seemed good just until Rhythm Nation for me. Since then I couldn't name a real good JJ song. Perhaps she should have leave Jam & Lewis in the 90s.

'should have left'

When I was younger and more rockist

you are still a big old rockist Alfred insofar as you tend to regard your conclusions as definitive (I used to prefer x, 'til I became enlightened and learned to prefer y)

I think another thing that makes me prefer Janet is that she doesn't try to come of as savvy and media-wise in the sort of semi-transparent admire-my-meta way that Madge does. Everybody else seems to love that about Madonna but I think it drains all the fun out of everything. Give me pop stars who immerse themselves in their personae/roles plz.

Really, the main thing that makes me prefer Janet is that I've never hated multisong sections of any of her albums, whereas with Madonna there is a 3-4 song stretch on every other album I wish never existed.

you are still a big old rockist Alfred insofar as you tend to regard your conclusions as definitive

I change my mind all the time, and I've equivocated lots on this thread!

And Madonna fully immerses herself in personae; she does it in Erotica, Ray of Light, even Confessions On a Dance Floor. On the latter especially she comes closest (without fully succeeding, but whatever) to subsuming her personality to the beat.

'80s Madonna > Janet > post-'80s Madonna

Janet has had a much less drastic quality drop over time but I still love Madonna's first few albums

Madonna's latest singles are better than Janet's latest singles with the sole exception of "All Night (Don't Stop)", which is the best thing either of them has put out in 5 years.

All this stuff about quality drop confues me somewhat. madonna has come out with some reeeeally great stuff later on. i still LOVE Confessions, and Ray of Light still sounds damn good to me. And needless 2 say, I <3 Bedtime STories, and i'm OK with Erotica too.

I haven't heard the other 2 weird ones.

Who has Madonna worked with better than Jam & Lewis?

What does it matter who she worked with? She is a great songwriting talent herself.

"Erotica" is awful.

I like Madonna's different things with Stuart Price, William Orbit or Patrick Leonard, while the JJ+Jam&Lewis trio seemed good just until Rhythm Nation for me. Since then I couldn't name a real good JJ song. Perhaps she should have leave Jam & Lewis in the 90s.

NO! NO! NO! 90's Janet is excellent. Leave ILM and never come back. My god, I have a hard time even comprehending this level of RONG. I'm not going to claim that janet or The Velvet Rope are super-consistent albums, but both have their share of brilliance. And "Runaway", ffs, which is my favorite thing she's done (unless its "If" or "Got Til Its Gone" or "That's the Way the Love Goes" or "Rhythm Nation" or "I Want You" or "Nasty" or "Someone to Call My Lover" or "When I Think of You" or "All Nite" or...or...or).

I really didn't realize how much I love Janet until this thread, but I'm getting quite worked up about her.

lol i'm glad ur getting me xcited about her too. i've really been tapping into my janet love in the past few months (even tho i had this revelation like last year) - she's just fab

And Madonna fully immerses herself in personae; she does it in Erotica, Ray of Light, even Confessions On a Dance Floor. On the latter especially she comes closest (without fully succeeding, but whatever) to subsuming her personality to the beat.

well, she's projected a more-or-less-unchanged interview personality since Truth or Dare, and to immerse yrself you gotta go whole-hog

any Madonna interview you ever see you could Karnak all her "provocative" answers easy

yeah, she's the most boring interview subject imaginable.

In retrospect, this: "Leave ILM and never come back." is unduly harsh and petty. I would say just take a couple days to reconsider the greatness of '90s Janet, then come back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gq7pW_LvZc

i mean that's almost 2 good

verdict in: fucking Janet, fuck.

Honestly, in 2007, who could give a rolling rat fuck about either?

I could.

i was a big fan of Confessions. and i heard a single of janet's latest that i really liked... whatever that Call on Me song was or whatever

so now i'm in the middle again. i just listened to Liv To Tell and like this really profound moment with it, for the 2nd time this year, where i just lose it and wail with her. oh my god here it comes again it just came on. i don't think i can do it again...

You need help.

Surmounter I'm surprised at you! I've got my Janet Jackson DVD here of all her videos from the late 80's and that shit wipes Madonna's ass all over the road, man. We've been through this before, but still.

Holy God, yes.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/18/article-1057809-02B4A7E900000578-209_468x552.jpg

Look out for Janet's Anti-Nowhere League covers album at year's end.

in a dschinghis khan stylee

third favourite pop star photo of the year after mariah w/2 umbrellas and t-pain on the elephant!

discipline is a really underrated album btw

"All For You" was the last Janet Jackson album worth bothering with at all. And so it will remain until she dumps Jermaine Dupree.

There are lots of copies of Discipline in MVE at the moment but none of Hard Candy.

I am not sure what, if anything, this proves.

discipline is a really underrated album btw

Suggest Ban Permalink
― lex pretend, Friday, September 19, 2008 2:00 AM Bookmark

^^y

shame this wasnt a poll

Madonna's miles better. I can't actually think of a JJ song that's made an impression on me, and I can think of maybe 20 by Madonna.

otm

not otm at all

was bumpin Velvet Rope in the Kia yesterday. what a dope album

I mean, if this ain't incredible, I don't know what to say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxHbIoo3_xU

i feel empty whenever i hear janet

you are helpless

I think another thing that makes me prefer Janet is that she doesn't try to come of as savvy and media-wise in the sort of semi-transparent admire-my-meta way that Madge does. Everybody else seems to love that about Madonna but I think it drains all the fun out of everything. Give me pop stars who immerse themselves in their personae/roles plz.

― J0hn D., Monday, June 25, 2007 6:04 AM Bookmark

lol at the pre-Gaga era

(John D v otm tho)

John D is otm and wrong simultaneously. Seeing the calculation behind the persona doesn't detract from the persona's effectiveness. Besides, how do you gauge "immersion" in persona/roles?

I don't have a dog in the Maddie-made-great-visuals hunt. Since I didn't have cable growing up, I knew Madonna as a radio artist first, which means that "Holiday," "Into the Groove," "Angel," "Papa Don't Preach," "Causing a Commotion," etc signified as aural sensations first. I didn't see their videos til years after the fact.

What irritates is not calculation per se but rather simultaneous embrace and disavowal - the artist wants you to like them for their daring persona but, in case you don't like it, they also want you to think "oh, it's okay, they're doing this as some sort of media-manipulation postmodern exercise."

Gaga brings this very sharply into focus.

Whereas I prefer artists who are prepared to "go down with the ship" by (to continue with boating metaphors) nailing their colours the persona-mast.

I think Madonna seemed calculating but not in a having-it-both-ways manner until Ray of Light probably.

um, that concert looks amazing

like, really amazing. think she's prolly getting out a little pent up emotion up there

What concert?

Madonna's miles better. I can't actually think of a JJ song that's made an impression on me, and I can think of maybe 20 by Madonna.

Couldn't agree more with this.

both have been a bit crap in the 00s.

but control is stone cold classic, as is rhythm nation (interludes aside). i can pretty much leave most of what shes made since then. so prob madonna overall.

people who can't think of a JJ song which has made an impression on them clearly haven't actually listened to too many JJ songs

both are equal for ageing ungracefully, though janet might win in terms of still thinking she can get away with stuff that younger artists do.

but Madonna thinks that way too!

people who can't think of a JJ song which has made an impression on them clearly haven't actually listened to too many JJ songs

Well I've barely actively listened to any, but I must have heard them coming out of the radio numerous times, and none have ever grabbed me - which is kind of a pre-requisite of good chart pop, for me.

find it utterly bizarre how several Madonna songs could grab someone but no Janet song.

when was the last time a janet song even got a decent amount of mainstream UK radio airplay?

janet >>>>>>>>>>>>>

2001 xp

They played "Feedback" to death over here, did that not happen in the UK?

not at all - didn't even reach the top 100. surprising that someone of janet's stature could flop like that, and the song was pretty good too.

i dunno if there were promotional issues there (like if she visited here at any point in 2008) or what.

What concert?

― swagulate...ringtone era (The Reverend), Monday, 27 July 2009 06:28 (8 hours ago) Permalink

the one from like a year ago that was linked above... i thought it was a recent thing :/

still looks GREAT :)

it would help if 00s janet had some good songs to play

00s Janet has tons of great songs, way more than 00s Madonna.

All For You, Damita Jo & Discipline are all good albums.

Janet singles:

2000 "Doesn't Really Matter"
2001 "All for You", "Someone to Call My Lover"
2002 "Son of a Gun" (featuring Missy Elliott and Carly Simon), "Come On Get Up"
2004 "Just a Little While", "I Want You", All Nite (Don't Stop)", "R&B Junkie"
2006 "Call on Me" (with Nelly), "So Excited" (featuring Khia)
"Enjoy", "With U"
2007 "Feedback"
2008 "Rock with U", "Luv", "Can't B Good"

Madonna singles:

2000 "American Pie", "Music", "Don't Tell Me"
2001 "What It Feels Like for a Girl"
2002 "Die Another Day"
2003 "American Life", "Hollywood", "Me Against the Music" (Britney Spears featuring Madonna), "Nothing Fails", "Love Profusion"
2005 "Hung Up"
2006 "Sorry", "Get Together", "Jump"
2007 "Hey You"
2008 "4 Minutes" (featuring Justin Timberlake), "Give It 2 Me", "Miles Away"
2009 "Celebration"

It's kind of stretching to call any of these songs "great", isn't it? If I had to, I would call out 2 for Janet ("Doesn't Really Matter", "All Nite (Don't Stop)" and 1.5 for Madonna ("Die Another Day", "4 Minutes")

(I like American Life the album a LOT and think it's the last truly enjoyable thing Madonna did but it's not because it's packed full of great songs; it's because it's evocative of particular mood/groove and is the last time she showed personality while being weird/quirky and not incredibly fucking annoying.)

"I Want You" is one of Janet's all-time best midtempos, "Rock With U" is up there with any of her classic singles, "Feeback," "Someone to Call My Lover," "All Nite," "All For You," "Luv," "R&B Junkie,".... all great songs. Janet never really fell off musically, her career problems all stem from that superbowl incident.

I fucking hate "Rock With U" and "I Want You". Both of those songs are fucking horrible wastes of time.

your taste is questionable

Basically, if Janet is going to show off how she can't sing, I'd rather she not do it over tepid, messy shit syncopation or vapid, weakly anonymous deep house.

Don't Tell Me is the pick of Madonna's 00s singles.

A bunch of these songs are "good", not "great", is my point, and ESPECIALLY with Janet people seem to fall all over themselves praising sloppy shit that was half-assed put together rather than the songs that well constructed and actually flattering to her as a performer.

I liked "Doesn't Really Matter," "Feedback," and "Someone To Call My Lover" fine, but "Hung Up" stomps all over them in stiletto heels.

of those songs i'd give 8/10 or more (which = great enough for me) to these (plus there are a bunch more which i still like fine) -

Janet singles:

"Doesn't Really Matter"
"All for You", "Someone to Call My Lover"
All Nite (Don't Stop)", "R&B Junkie"
"Rock with U", "Can't B Good"

Madonna singles:

"Music", "Don't Tell Me"
"Die Another Day"
"American Life"
"Nothing Fails"
"Hung Up"
"Get Together", "Jump"

'die another day' is the best on either of those lists but then it's unimpeachably 10/10 anyway

I agree with that, although I do think "All Nite (Don't Stop)" comes close.

'all nite' is really underrated.

still, both of their 00s output has been a bit "flailing around in search of a point, and while not quite finding it, a lot of the time alighting on a great hook or beat b/c they can't quite help it" for both of them.

^^^^^

this, but "Don't Tell Me," "Sorry," "Feedback," "Enjoy" and "All For You" flailed themselves into highly listenable territory

I fucking hate "Rock With U" and "I Want You". Both of those songs are fucking horrible wastes of time.

― Lisa Simpson = a fictional bitch (HI DERE), Monday, July 27, 2009 8:27 AM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

your taste is questionable

― The Brainwasher, Monday, July 27, 2009 8:28 AM Bookmark

^^^This.

Those are her two best singles of this decade by a pretty wide margin imo.

That's nice for you. I still hate them.

i love 'rock with u' but the really great song on discipline wasn't a single -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AklBGKLgpE4

and 'so much betta' is a played-out idea but still huge fun to dance to

I also find it interesting that Jackson didn't bother lending her name to songwriting credits on the last album.

was just talking about the all for you/doesn't really matter era with a friend. we were saying how unique it was, and fun.

"All For You" was the first Janet single to leave me cold. The Change song it samples means so much to me that I expected her to reconceptualize it as anything besides a bouncy passive-aggressive number. I know she's a Jackson, but she's too old for that nonsense.

i was surprised to see how many comments there were about janet's mediocre voice. nobody said she was whitney houston, and its not like madonna's singing voice is...well, anything above mediocre. she actually sounds quite bad live imo...tends to force the low notes a lot and goes very sharp on them.

but that aint the fuggin' point...both of em made pop music i aint ever gonna fergits

"All For You" was the first Janet single to leave me cold.

Really? The first? There were quite a few before that one that did nothing for me (and, admittedly, a lot more after that did likewise).

I mean, she DID turn 10 of the songs on janet. into singles.

i remember all for you being catchy but agreed, she had some ballads that were fuggin terrible that were released

yo janet now i'm about to kick this, ya want this, but do you really think that you can get this, at first ya dissed this, now you wanna kiss this? tell em girls (TOO LATE YOU MISSED THIS), cuz we need a guy that's hip quick and clever, ready at the drop of a dime to do whatever, who's not tryin to front or fake or save face, cuz i'm with that day anytime anyplace....TELL em J

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOFxvPIygj0&feature=player_embedded

that's just such an incredible performance.

what about the times you said you didn't fuck her, she only gave you head

I think this all boils down to: which was the first to use a chair in a dance routine?

"Open Your Heart" video was 1986. "Rhythm Nation" was 1989. (Sting's "We'll Be Together" video was somewhere in the middle.)

"The Pleasure Principle" was 1987, and used chairs.

anybody else find it funny during 'you want this' when janet starts riffing and going 'a little bit softer' a la the isley brothers...its not like she had exactly been belting prior to that moment...i think if she sang any softer the song would be an instrumental by then.

spent a car ride down to the Jersey Shore and back bumping Janet's "Number 1s" compilation; it is pretty much immaculate

"Someone To Call My Lover" and "Feedback" hit harder when listened to as part of a career arc IMO

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03vb9zx

50th birthday mix ^

Bump.

Taking sides: Jefri or Alfonse?

Shawn Mendes or Eric Clapton?

my god that first string of posts is just abysmal does the thread get any better

handful of songs and “importance” aside madonna is pretty mediocre so this should have been a walk

This thread doesn't just get better, it gets best.

handful of songs and “importance” aside madonna is pretty mediocre so this should have been a walk

― Left, Tuesday, August 31, 2021 11:39 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

No she’s not lol

“Right on” opinion though

lol at all the deranged stanning at the beginning of the thread

I feel like if I spent more time with Janet's material, she'd leapfrog Madonna easily, but the latter earns the benefit of exposure since I heard her literally all the time on the radio in my parent's Nova.

but when I hear prime-era Janet, I get excited in a way I don't with Madonna.

so...I don't fuckin' know, get off my back!

(I have a decent number of Janet albums but I got into her very late and haven't played them in a long time)

Yeah, I'd go with Madonna too. I can't disagree with the arguments against her, but she's managed to record so many indelible singles under her name. Her artistic vision may be debatable, but she's incredible at marketing herself and recognizing talent - all of that becomes enormously beneficial when it comes to capitalizing on her fame and the money she can command.

janet is def better to me im just annoyed at twitter (and Left) trying to say madonna isnt shit ... clearly wrong. multi decade career of heat

i'm annoyed by how she was elevated over her equal or superior peers for so long, to such a ludicrous degree. when I was growing up her 80s stuff was the only pop music the real-music-like-radiohead types around me would ever deign to acknowledge as "actually pretty good" and the janet-bashing upthread brought me back to that awful time. also her voice is fine at best, and her worst music is among *the* worst music

four words: killers who are partying

Madonna never had a sustained peak like Control > Rhythm Nation > janet. > Velvet Rope > All For You

a lot of the worst madonna stuff is bad in an endearing trainwreck way where it's "what the hell was she thinking"

madonna has a lot of good albums but few masterpieces in the way that janet does

a lot of the worst madonna stuff is bad in an endearing trainwreck way where it's "what the hell was she thinking"

― ufo, Wednesday, September 1, 2021

i.e. like many great artists. Mediocre ones lack the ambitions for train wrecks.

It doesn't matter to me that Madonna has uneven albums. Most artists have uneven albums. Most artists hustle. She wrote great hooks and terrific vocal melodies. And Janet Jackson's singular vision of independence needed Madonna to open that door.

if mediocre artists can't make trainwrecks explain this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/The_elder_album_cover.jpg

KISS weren't mediocre -- KISS are fucking terrible.

touche

Terrible artists made yet another terrible album.

madame x is pretty high up there as far as endearingly batshit late career albums go imo, both in terms of enjoyment & bafflement

exactly

i remember being highly entertained by dark ballet but i'm not sure i ever made it past the aforementioned track which is an abomination on every level

I agree the album has appalling crap, but it's her own.

Janet's worst is just boring, I'll grant.

it's a point in her favour that she's never offered to "be africa if africa is shut down"

I love Madonna and Jackson's sex albums released months apart. Erotica positions itself as a club album: slightly impersonal if not chilly at first because they're more important things to concentrate in clubs besides romance, until she remembers AIDS is killing her friends thanks in part to a outdated sense of abandon she can't help eulogizing. In the end Erotica becomes her warmest, most devastating album.

Meanwhile janet shows little interest in club politics. A bedroom album. The club politics would come up on the next album but reconfigured for intimate moments.

Erotica vs. Velvet Rope is a death match (in some regards, literally) to end all death matches.

sounds like a great night

good morning!

Jesus, that Mitchell interview.

“There was a time in the early ’80s when if you were gay you had to decide whether you were a Cyndi Lauper or a Madonna person, and there was no question for me,” he said.

was this really the most pressing question at the Danceteria

Glad I live in an era where I can be a Janet Jackson gay AND a Madonna gay. Whew, et al!